I think an argument can be made for violent video games becoming an addiction, because it is repetitive behaviour for days, months, years it can change some people. But movies is a limited time experience you are in and out couple of hours, you have to be already messed up in the head to see a movie and go crazy. But video games can affect a person's behaviour if not controlled, like not doing your homework, not wanting to go out, not wanting to eat, too much of anything can make you crazy but it is up to us ultimately to take care of ourselves.
Movies and games aren’t the causes of said “violence”. This is all just fear mongering for clicks on media outlets and also to get butts in seats. But in my opinion, and that’s the beautiful thing about opinions is I’m not right or wrong and you can agree or better disagree, but art needs to be controversial at times in order to push boundaries. If we cant push past boundaries how can we reflect and discuss? When something likes this comes out and years down the line we can look back and say “oh now I see what it possibly meant”. We gotta push the limits so we can set the new one, and then break that one too.
Agree with Todd Phillips, he said that no one had said anything about John Wick for example. I love John Wick, but it is true, that movie is really violent too and no one said anything. I really hate this era, people whine for anything!
No its not when the last dark night movie came out people across multiple countrys went and caused mayen in the movie theatre, a lot of people where hurt u can go and check the news it was horrible. I dont say the movie caused that but fucked up people are fucked up, and no one needs to whory about safety while watching movies so im holding up seing it until im certain that there are no trolls going around doing fucked up shit to prove a point.
@@glcsander such a ridiculous sentiment. Those people caused harm because they wanted to cause harm, not because the movie made them. They hadn't even seen the fucking movie for Christ sake. And you staying away from theatres because media tells you too is only furthering the problem. It's all just utterly fucking ridiculous.
Its ok to be brave but still be safe out there u cant predict people actions, this days who knows what triggers anyone especially if you have company other than that have fun.
glcsander not about being brave bro or having fear. It’s about winning. I don’t buckle or yield when face with the cruelty of this world. I push forward!
What will be a shame is if some mentally unstable person ends up doing something horrific. The media will try to connect it to the movie and out of panic, I can see movie theaters pulling the movie. Not show it and it be ignored at the Oscars.
I feel like this is completely the wrong conversation, and the media is trying to create this controversy. I don't expect the filmmakers to be responsible for anything. I do expect the movie theaters to protect their customers. That's it.
The whole campaign to take this movie down is pathetic, straight up pathetic, the whole bad reviews because of it being too disturbing, the controversial bias toward Marvel, and now the warning sent out to people for opening day screenings which will sure help out the vast majority of people that don’t want this movie to succeed and have a box office record breaking opening weekend which it was on track to do...it’s a movie, it’s FAKE! Grow up!
Keith MacDonald I’m not even against Marvel and I don’t even like one single DCEU movie, I like Marvel movies more, it’s just a literal fact that RT is owned by Disney and they favor Marvel, movies with the same rating for Marvel movies have been considered fresh while people that reviewed Joker with the same rating counts as rotten.. no bias? And also Marvel has made the world used colorful, playful, and fun comic book movies, people aren’t ready for something like this.
This whole controversy feels so manufactured. Just click-bait media hype to get more butts in seats. I doubt anyone writing about this "controversy" actually believes what there writing.
The media asked the questions. The media then responds to those question responses. Then the media responds to the articles written. Mind you, many of the media members have not watched the movie yet. Completely manufactured.
I grew up watching Scarface, Goodfellas and The Godfather. I’m twenty two now and I don’t kill people or snort cocaine. So you can’t blame movies for the actions people do or don’t do.
6:22 the possibility of you dying in a theater mass shooting is so low it's almost impossible. The odds are even lower than winning the lottery. Also showing fear doesn't just make you a coward. But it makes them win.
I saw scarface when I was 12 and I haven't done drugs or hurt anyone in my life. Anyone with proper functioning brain would be able to separate fiction from real life
Movies have been violent ever since I was a kid and I am almost 62. This is ridiculous. We played army based on seeing things in movies, but we never, ever thought about actually hurting anyone. I think what was said about parents having to take some responsibility on how they raise their kids is on the nose. Let people make their visions.
Can all you guys stop saying that Aurora happened during The Dark Knight? It was The Dark Knight Rises. Funny how all media tries to make a Joker correlation with a tragedy that occurred during a film in which Bane was the villain. Also, if anything happens, it’s on the media for pushing this narrative.
The fact that the "media", is scared that this movie is coming out means that they are deliberately turning a blind eye to the social dysfunction of loneliness and elitism that is sweeping across first world nations. The Joker is an everyman who wants the best from life but meets snarls of disrespect at every strata in the city that created him.
The only place this is a controversy is on youtube channels, I haven't seen anyone else talking about this "controversy" and all I've heard is peoples excitement for the movie
It was trending on twitter as people were reacting to the interview and the letter to WB by victims families before most videos reporting and reacting to it. Perhaps your experience is singular to you and not the truth of the matter.
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 true, but youtube is where a reasonable conversation about the hysterics on Twitter is at least allowed to meet logical counterpoint. Twitter has power because the media reports on Twitter. Watch the nightly news, there's typically at least 1 story about how people on Twitter were upset about something. Twitter would become irrelevant if the big media conglomerates didn't use it as an outrage farming echo chamber.
The guy who shot up that other theater never said that he was the joker or dressed as a clown, that was misinformation that spread... He just had red hair, and people labelled him the joker but he never said anything about that at all.
Exactly! Do they have a clue on what an actual Nazi is, but now a days people throw that around all the time... like someone talking a parking spot at the grocery store from you... WTF! This podcast was filled with a ton of misinformation and typical "Lets hype this fearmongering..."
Yeah, because many places in the world aren't rich enough to have a steady stream of entertainment. And only the United States is retarded enough to constantly conflate all forms of violence with media.
It's a tiny minority of people on Twitter issue. Most Americans don't care either. The trouble is that social media has allowed a tiny group on Twitter to hold us all hostage because the news keeps going to twitter for stories about outrage. It's insane and it's not the fault of 95% of Americans.
. Im watching the movie. I’m going to support the movie. And I’m not scared. If it’s my time to die oh well it’s my time. But i will not wait to watch Joker.
If the mass shooting victims have concerns over "Joker" film, come November 2020, won't they VOTE OUT the Senators or Policymakers, who's not doing their job on gun reform. Voters need to use their voice, clout, and leverage to VOTE OUT these Congressional leaders, who's NOT doing anything but receiving money from the NRA. "Joker" movie is NOT the problem... and I will be watching it come October 4th. It's an easy solution. VOTE!
The people afraid the movie Joker....wait until they find out about Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer...or like, literally the entire decade of the 70's in cinema.
This is what happens when we get something so fresh and new it frightens people cuz it's too good the joker character is known for decades as a savage and he got an r rating idk what people are expect even if he feels relatable You know what he becomes this why we can't have nice things smh
I'm not OK with anybody trying to control what project (movies and TVs) is being shown because I think everyone has a right to make what ever project you want, but if people have a problem with it and they want to talk about the problems they have with it, they have every right. Just like people who loved the film and want to talk about how much they love it, they have the right 2.
There are people who blame others for everything and there are people who blame themselves for everything. We should be responsible for our own behaviour & not blame others neither should we blame ourselves for others' behaviour
Remember the 80s when there was that backlash against slasher films and movies like William Lusting's MANIAC on how they could possibly trigger men to kill women and wear them as hats? I certainly do. The horror genre has been dealing with this for as I can remember. Now, people are wigging out over a comic book movie of the Joker. I have serious doubt that the next societal rampage is due to a DC comics movie.
I play many violent video games and watch many violent movies, but I am a very kind and caring person. These things definitely do not cause people to be violent.
Context is everything. Videogames and movies are entertainment. Gun violence is awful but it wasnt a movie or any form of entertainment that made shooters pull the trigger
In marketing bussiness pshycology is used alot. They started understanding one simple thing. An ad can not make you suddenly want the product in the ad. But the reason they show the same ad many times is beacuse if you are in the situation where you want or need a similar product, and this ad pops up it will affect you. And this is how movies and games and storys and everything works. So unless u have tendencies to harm other people a violent movie or a game will not make you kill people.
I am from the UK I Have The perspective From Looking In, Hear Me out. When will America draw a line in The Sand ?You have to understand That It's not the films Fault, it's The countries, Simple As, it's Time to hold Yourselfs Accountable, For 5 Years I've worked On Outreach Projects With Chickenshed Theatre company To prevent Knife Crime In London, Teaching teaching young offenders/ teenagers and young adults In Schools/Colleges/ Prisons, To put their Passion into something that can be worthwhile and not get them killed, we teach them directing and acting and in doing so we have have helped over 1000 people affiliated with or apart of urban culture find too find a carrer path in Performing arts and Leave Knife Crime For Good, Outreach Projects for control is the right step in the Right direction.. which leads me to my next Point .. The Very fact that the Tabloids in America have used The joker as a Scapegoat Too protest and Say That the Film Encourages Violence is quite Honestly One of the most pathetic Things I've ever heard off, How about people within The USA pull their Fingers out off their Arses, and Actually Tackle Gun Control, Then Maybe Nobody Has To be Scared Shitless for their life going To a theatre,School, supermarket, When will the penny drop ?
There are films in history that revelled in graphic violence and pain as entertainment.Others are dramas that make us question things and our responsibility to society.Its only something each persons conscience and viewpoints are.
Ultimately people are responsible for their behaviour artists, filmmakers etc..cannot be held responsible for the behaviour of others. However from what I am reading and hearing joker is about a man with possible mental health issues who is downtrodden by society, bullied, marginalised etc...and then reaches his breaking point and exacts violent retribution. What is problematic for America is that there has been a number of instances of young men with possible mental health issues who also feel marginalised, bullied and downtrodden and react violently i.e. shooting up their school or some other place so there is in fact a legitimate question surrounding what the movie might be perceived as promoting or in fact excusing
My issue with the way this discussion went down is how Jo one is pointing out why Joker *specifically* is having this controversy. You can't compare the Joker to Deadpool or John Wick or even Rambo. It's not the same. What Heath Ledger did in 08 and his subsequent death cemented Joker as one of the most beloved and bad guys of all time. He isn't a Joffery Lannister (Baratheon) where you hate him because he's so bad, but admire him for being so good at being so bad. Joker is worshiped. He's on a peddastle. That's why there's so much concern for this film, and I agree it does give me pause. That said I will be there opening weekend to see for myself, but I am nervous of the fallout.
Have to point something out Don't blame them for getting this wrong since the media misreported and didn't correct themselves, but the Aurora shooting had nothing to do with the movie itself. The shooter didn't even claim he was the Joker. That was something said by two FBI agents, and local police have been fighting it ever since. He chose that theater because of the known long response time. And he chose that particular time and room because he knew he could secure the door and there were likely to be no children there. It could have been a midnight screening of any movie. He had all sorts of other things leading up to the night, but an obsession with Joker or a need to emulate the character was not one of them.
Do not act fearful ! If we do then these people that do these horrible things win. They feed off of this fear, we show that we are not afraid and I think we will over come 👍🏼
Nothing. Unless the creator expressly says that it’s meant to be received a certain way, holding the creator accountable for how other people interpret their art is ludicrous. If a mentally ill person sees this movie and does something terrible because of it, it is not Todd Phillips’ nor Joaquin Phoenix’s fault. You can’t blame someone for the self-chosen actions of another.
They don't have to cross their fingers. It isn't on them. And there will definitely be reports of Joker inspired acts. It seems we just have to go through this every so often.
@@michael.2188 some of the families! Worth noted, that not all of them supported that letter. Also, with all due respect, they were asking for money from Warner Bros!
@@lo3466 Yes, youre right. Some of them and indeed they were asking for money. Its just annoys me lol. However, still they brought the whole thing up. Now its in the news. And now some asshole watching might want to do something stupid.
@@michael.2188 tbh nobody was talking about violence & attacks before the media blew it up! Ppl were talking about how it is nice to finally have mental illness illustrated & stuff like that. Ugh
@@lo3466 yeah exactly, the media big time. It was supposed to be another movie dropping that looked good thats all. Its like a trigger lol. Jhon wick 3 was hella violent lmao
If anything were to happen at a showing of the movie, personally I would blame the media for raising the dicussion and blowing it out of proportion. The movie will be blamed and the media won’t. The outlets will sit back and say told you so, when had they said nothing, then the movie would have come and gone with no issues.
Well done all contributing. It's a sad reality but this an appropriate discussion & healthy conversation that needs to take place. It's ok to have concerns. I also support the film makers & the art they choose to make. It's all subjective & a rational concern. I'm looking forward to this film. But I will be holding off on seeing this until the noise around it subsides. It's just a reality of the times.
Those of us in the field of psychology are probably shaking our heads throughout this video. No psychologist, counselor, or any other mental health professional will straight up say, "Violent movies cause violent behavior." Instead, we say, there is a CORRELATION (key word here) between being frequently exposed to violent movies and exhibiting aggressive behavior. Correlation shows a relationship between the two, but does not say one exclusively CAUSES the other. For example, a correlation suggests frequent exposure to violent movies is a contributing factor, not the sole cause, of more aggressive behavior. Read about Albert Bandura's groundbreaking Bobo doll experiment. Read about social learning theory and cultivation theory. No one can definitively say that violent movies lead to mass shootings because we know this is not true. There are multiple factors that contribute to shaping someone into a violent person, and consumption of violent media may be one of them. I disagree with dismissive attitudes about violent media and its effects on people because there's a long history and huge body of research that consistently finds significant correlations between violent media and violent behavior. People struggle to understand concerns and critiques about violent media because people don't understand the difference between causation and correlation.
There is no ''Controversy'' stop with that. It's obvious that people have some sort of agenda against Joker movie. Where were those people when Halloween, Purge and John Wicks movies came out?
Anthony Burgess author of Clockwork Orange after the book and movie had a similar statement that art has no influence or causality on its audience however towards the end of his life he seemed to reverse on that idea. I don’t if a work of art or entertainment can influence an audience I doubt it but maybe...
I teach students with Severe Mental Health, and TBh when that girl said parent your kids, I would of walked out of the room, saying go back to your glass house and stick to hosting a radio show. Then she knew she was wrong and did the typical O i have a family member blah just shut up. Thankfully the host set her straight by being nice when he really was like , just shut up now.
Joker isn't a Hero for some maybe, but it doesn't Mean he's Not a Victim of the world he lives in too, for we are all effected differently from the world we live in but not all of us live in the same world as the people around us sometimes the people in our world effect us more than anything else can, because they can make us believe the absurd and possibly be the reason why atrocities happen in our lives but that always falls back on how we react with character whose development smiles instead
In my opinion news outlets need to act more responsibly. Let’s say (God forbid) someone shoots up a theatre on opening night. The shooter will have not seen the movie... And yet the story the next day would be: Joker inspires shooter. But what actually inspired the shooter - The movie they haven’t even seen or could it be they were inspired by all the media attention around a “possible threat”? Don’t get me wrong, the news outlets would not then be responsible, just as the movie wouldn’t be. However we know that these sick people are after notoriety and infamy. Studies have shown that copycats are inspired when shooters’ names are used on tv. I’m concerned that all the media seem to be anticipating a tragedy so much that it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
People kill in the name of religion, is religion a bad thing? No. I am a religious person and I see the beautiful aspect of it and it brought to the world a lot of good things. Violent people do violence, they just need an excuse. It's just a movie.
I see, 🤔 there are people taking this topic seriously. I can see there are people aware of the dangerous situations your society creates. worry not tho. It makes no sense to live a life in fear. y'all aware. awake. that's a huge step. even if there's nothing you can do to change your society right now. Just by being "awake" is a huge step in the right direction.
no one says this type of stuff for movies like zodiac or Hereditary for being violent so why would joker get so much flak for violence but they are critically acclaimed films. Critics are specifically doing this because they want to look for a excuse to hate it.
Look, nobody is saying the film will incite violence. No film is able to do that (hell ppl were afraid DO THE RIGHT THING would incite riots in black neighborhoods...) The PROBLEM some ppl have is that the film presents ideas in such a way that they irresponsibly hold them up as a reasonable alternative to the norm. I get ppl in the collider base are annoyed that ppl are complaining about art, BUT it's important to remember that NO ONE is saying the film should be censored, just that it doesn't do enough to condemn some of the rhetoric used. I haven't seen it and look forward to it. I'm not against this film or against supporting it (we should all be more willing to support boundary pushing blockbuster entertainment), but I do think THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with critics and film writers writing about or discussing the possibly problematic elements in any given film. Phillips has said he doesn't come down on where or not the Joker is wrong or good (not concretely) and having that grey area IS kind of a weird way to position what is obviously a villain. Make a stance! One can make disturbing art that's provocative, smart, perceptive, and real while also making the point that, "THIS BEHAVIOR IS NOT SOMETHING WE SHOULD CONSIDER". DO THE RIGHT THING is all the things Joker is, it just also happens to be very firm on the notion that the life of an individual is not equivalent to some real estate; and that's one of the 10 best films ever. so don't attack each other, and keep an open mind. We all have valuable perspectives to add to this film conversation. Have a great day everybody!
This is why I have a concealed weapons permit. It's a shame that we have come to this that we cant go to the movies without looking over our shoulders. But if these areas were not gun free zones these tragedies go down alot.
It's weird to me how people keep connecting Joker to mass shootings when the Joker has never been a mass shooter. Yes he does kill certain people but he's never walked into a school or a church and shot a bunch of people. That's not his style.
Roxy & Mark’s friend are prime examples of this bullshit, they amp up this bullshit so much that it’s legitimately got people paranoid & afraid to go to see a damn movie. Smh
Creators aren't responsible for anything but art. WE as parents and human beings need to do a better job of correcting the hateful society that we live in.
I thought we moved past this. We are regressing as a society. This is shit from 50+ years ago, when they blamed rock music for people doing bad things. People need to be held accountable for their actions, so quit blaming inanimate objects for people's actions. They blamed Marilyn Manson for Columbine and it's just completely idiotic. It's almost like the last 50 years in the advancement of science, psychology, etc. never happened with this type of thinking.
At 7:02 you mention that the aroura shooting happened during the dark knight which is false, this was during the dark knight rises and which has not one scene with the joker in it, and to have this family that had this tragic and terrible thing happen to them, blame another film that has the only similar point is that some lunatic said he was the joker, but this should be, as one of you said, rooted back to the main issue of this man and others like him’s availability to weapons to harm others, and to also ruin another films reputation even before its release is in my opinion unfair
You can’t hold them accountable for any of the shit ppl have in their heads they’re just making a movie about a character they even said it’s not even meant to provoke anything just a movie
This movie is not a controversy, the institutional failure of the self aggrandizing media they know whats best for the public more than the artist or the public itself is a huge controversy
So this is what it must have felt like when A Clockwork Orange and Taxi Driver first came out...
No, people are significantly more retarded now.
@@bigfan1041 oh god you couldn't be more right
also Fight Club
No... there weren't fucked up sensitive fucktards then..
They were nothing compared to Natural Born Killers. Try reading into that controversy, it makes Taxi Driver and Clockwork Orange look tame lol
Art can't be responsible for people's behavior. This is just as ludicrous as games causing gun violence. GTFOH.
Phew, that's a relief.
I think an argument can be made for violent video games becoming an addiction, because it is repetitive behaviour for days, months, years it can change some people. But movies is a limited time experience you are in and out couple of hours, you have to be already messed up in the head to see a movie and go crazy. But video games can affect a person's behaviour if not controlled, like not doing your homework, not wanting to go out, not wanting to eat, too much of anything can make you crazy but it is up to us ultimately to take care of ourselves.
@@maragathm But video games or movies shouldn't be banned etc...
@@maragathm nope, this is complete bollocks
@@leemcqueen500 Did you miss the part where I said it is your personal responsibility nothing has to be banned.
Movies and games aren’t the causes of said “violence”. This is all just fear mongering for clicks on media outlets and also to get butts in seats. But in my opinion, and that’s the beautiful thing about opinions is I’m not right or wrong and you can agree or better disagree, but art needs to be controversial at times in order to push boundaries. If we cant push past boundaries how can we reflect and discuss? When something likes this comes out and years down the line we can look back and say “oh now I see what it possibly meant”. We gotta push the limits so we can set the new one, and then break that one too.
THIS!!!
Agree with Todd Phillips, he said that no one had said anything about John Wick for example. I love John Wick, but it is true, that movie is really violent too and no one said anything. I really hate this era, people whine for anything!
The whining is insane in 2019, Trump complained about The Hunt and now that film is being shelved.
It's not even a controversy. It's nothing. It's dumb to even talk about that.
No its not when the last dark night movie came out people across multiple countrys went and caused mayen in the movie theatre, a lot of people where hurt u can go and check the news it was horrible. I dont say the movie caused that but fucked up people are fucked up, and no one needs to whory about safety while watching movies so im holding up seing it until im certain that there are no trolls going around doing fucked up shit to prove a point.
@@glcsander That says more about the state of your country than a fucking movie.
@@glcsander such a ridiculous sentiment. Those people caused harm because they wanted to cause harm, not because the movie made them. They hadn't even seen the fucking movie for Christ sake. And you staying away from theatres because media tells you too is only furthering the problem. It's all just utterly fucking ridiculous.
@@glcsander I heared of one shooter and he didn't do it cause of the joker but randomly picked a cinema.
glcsander then we can all see you are one of the dumb people hoping for something bad to happen. Just to be proven right.
Bunch of scared rabbits I’m going day one and nobody fooking with me
EatingTheCannibals who said I was going alone?
Its ok to be brave but still be safe out there u cant predict people actions, this days who knows what triggers anyone especially if you have company other than that have fun.
glcsander nothing is happening bro, there just soft ass people.
glcsander not about being brave bro or having fear. It’s about winning. I don’t buckle or yield when face with the cruelty of this world. I push forward!
MAXIMLS You’re going alone and scared as shit boi lol
What will be a shame is if some mentally unstable person ends up doing something horrific. The media will try to connect it to the movie and out of panic, I can see movie theaters pulling the movie. Not show it and it be ignored at the Oscars.
LoPiccolo they would never pull the movie even if something terrible happened
There's no chance they pull it. And if something terrible happens the movie will win an Oscar.
LoPiccolo don’t think it would go that far, taxi driver won some awards and critical acclaim, if they do pull it out then it’ll be a uproar
I don’t think this would be an issue if we were legitimately addressing gun violence, mental health and hate.
No they would whine regardless.
The twitterati is never appeased by reality.
Where was this criticism when John Wick 3 with its hyper-realistic kills went out?
I feel like this is completely the wrong conversation, and the media is trying to create this controversy. I don't expect the filmmakers to be responsible for anything. I do expect the movie theaters to protect their customers. That's it.
The whole campaign to take this movie down is pathetic, straight up pathetic, the whole bad reviews because of it being too disturbing, the controversial bias toward Marvel, and now the warning sent out to people for opening day screenings which will sure help out the vast majority of people that don’t want this movie to succeed and have a box office record breaking opening weekend which it was on track to do...it’s a movie, it’s FAKE! Grow up!
J Alves there’s no bias towards Marvel 🤣
Keith MacDonald where do you live
J Alves um... what?
Keith MacDonald if you lived on Earth your notice the bias
Keith MacDonald I’m not even against Marvel and I don’t even like one single DCEU movie, I like Marvel movies more, it’s just a literal fact that RT is owned by Disney and they favor Marvel, movies with the same rating for Marvel movies have been considered fresh while people that reviewed Joker with the same rating counts as rotten.. no bias? And also Marvel has made the world used colorful, playful, and fun comic book movies, people aren’t ready for something like this.
This whole controversy feels so manufactured. Just click-bait media hype to get more butts in seats. I doubt anyone writing about this "controversy" actually believes what there writing.
The media asked the questions. The media then responds to those question responses. Then the media responds to the articles written. Mind you, many of the media members have not watched the movie yet. Completely manufactured.
That’s true but America is full of crazy people that will see this as inspiration and do crazy shit
@@panamared72 people can find inspiration for anything literally anywhere if they really wish to do something.
I would not be shocked if Warner came up with the whole thing
@Brick Bazooka who knows with Hollyood. controversey is the new marketing
I grew up watching Scarface, Goodfellas and The Godfather. I’m twenty two now and I don’t kill people or snort cocaine. So you can’t blame movies for the actions people do or don’t do.
6:22 the possibility of you dying in a theater mass shooting is so low it's almost impossible. The odds are even lower than winning the lottery. Also showing fear doesn't just make you a coward. But it makes them win.
I saw scarface when I was 12 and I haven't done drugs or hurt anyone in my life. Anyone with proper functioning brain would be able to separate fiction from real life
Human killing another human have happen looooooooooooong before movies and games
"There IS a resurgence of Nazi's now"
Huh????? What resurgence of Nazi's are you talking about??? Roxy please hush...
Jojo Rabbit starry promo in advance by Roxy
Ennit make, also she can’t know much about history to day nazis are the worst of the worst, ussr was arguably a lot worse the the nazis rein
Rick Toledo Charlottesville ring a bell? Nazis and all hate groups are on the rise she’s right
Movies have been violent ever since I was a kid and I am almost 62. This is ridiculous. We played army based on seeing things in movies, but we never, ever thought about actually hurting anyone. I think what was said about parents having to take some responsibility on how they raise their kids is on the nose. Let people make their visions.
Can all you guys stop saying that Aurora happened during The Dark Knight? It was The Dark Knight Rises. Funny how all media tries to make a Joker correlation with a tragedy that occurred during a film in which Bane was the villain. Also, if anything happens, it’s on the media for pushing this narrative.
The fact that the "media", is scared that this movie is coming out means that they are deliberately turning a blind eye to the social dysfunction of loneliness and elitism that is sweeping across first world nations. The Joker is an everyman who wants the best from life but meets snarls of disrespect at every strata in the city that created him.
The only place this is a controversy is on youtube channels, I haven't seen anyone else talking about this "controversy" and all I've heard is peoples excitement for the movie
It was trending on twitter as people were reacting to the interview and the letter to WB by victims families before most videos reporting and reacting to it. Perhaps your experience is singular to you and not the truth of the matter.
It's also trending on Facebook somewhat
Twitter and Facebook are not the real World either
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 true, but youtube is where a reasonable conversation about the hysterics on Twitter is at least allowed to meet logical counterpoint.
Twitter has power because the media reports on Twitter. Watch the nightly news, there's typically at least 1 story about how people on Twitter were upset about something.
Twitter would become irrelevant if the big media conglomerates didn't use it as an outrage farming echo chamber.
For like three days in a row it’s been in the news, on tv
The guy who shot up that other theater never said that he was the joker or dressed as a clown, that was misinformation that spread...
He just had red hair, and people labelled him the joker but he never said anything about that at all.
" there is a resurgence of Nazis now"? I can no longer take that chick seriously
She is the most unprofessional person on this channel. It happens all the time. Welcome to the club.
But... there is a resurgence of white supremacy and neo-nazis soooo...
HybridReacts no there isn’t
Exactly! Do they have a clue on what an actual Nazi is, but now a days people throw that around all the time... like someone talking a parking spot at the grocery store from you... WTF! This podcast was filled with a ton of misinformation and typical "Lets hype this fearmongering..."
RoboTactics I completely agree with you
This is an unbelievably stupid conversation. Any incident can happen anywhere anytime.
I’m so glad I’m from NY. I don’t have to deal with this ‘controversy'. 🤣🤣🤣
I didn't even know this WAS a controversy.
It only became a "controversy" the closer it comes to its release. They've known about the movie for a year. It's only a problem now.
Too be clear this is an American issue nowhere else around the world are people going to be afraid to go and see this movie
Yeah, because many places in the world aren't rich enough to have a steady stream of entertainment. And only the United States is retarded enough to constantly conflate all forms of violence with media.
It's a tiny minority of people on Twitter issue.
Most Americans don't care either.
The trouble is that social media has allowed a tiny group on Twitter to hold us all hostage because the news keeps going to twitter for stories about outrage.
It's insane and it's not the fault of 95% of Americans.
. Im watching the movie. I’m going to support the movie. And I’m not scared. If it’s my time to die oh well it’s my time. But i will not wait to watch Joker.
Lol that's literally the right mindset. You're more likely to be ran over by a car on your way to the cinema than you are to be killed at it.
If the mass shooting victims have concerns over "Joker" film, come November 2020, won't they VOTE OUT the Senators or Policymakers, who's not doing their job on gun reform.
Voters need to use their voice, clout, and leverage to VOTE OUT these Congressional leaders, who's NOT doing anything but receiving money from the NRA.
"Joker" movie is NOT the problem... and I will be watching it come October 4th. It's an easy solution. VOTE!
Exactly they are putting their energy on the wrong concerns
Lmao so you just made a double standard. Dont blame the movie, Blame the person. Blame the NRA, But not the person pulling the trigger?
The people afraid the movie Joker....wait until they find out about Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer...or like, literally the entire decade of the 70's in cinema.
This is what happens when we get something so fresh and new it frightens people cuz it's too good the joker character is known for decades as a savage and he got an r rating idk what people are expect even if he feels relatable You know what he becomes this why we can't have nice things smh
I'm not OK with anybody trying to control what project (movies and TVs) is being shown because I think everyone has a right to make what ever project you want, but if people have a problem with it and they want to talk about the problems they have with it, they have every right. Just like people who loved the film and want to talk about how much they love it, they have the right 2.
Making a movie. Accountable for what?
marvin martin for being a good film
At the end of the day it’s a movie ... a film it’s not real life , it’s not endorsing violence
Aurora shooting was at a Dark Knight Rises showing not Dark Knight. Shooter was not dressed as Joker or said/thought he was the Joker.
I think Marvel is paying companies to put a bad reviews to this movie. This is so sad.
There are people who blame others for everything and there are people who blame themselves for everything.
We should be responsible for our own behaviour & not blame others neither should we blame ourselves for others' behaviour
didn't the critics say the same stuff with fight club?
Man in my country people are making a petition to the movie teathers to pull out It chapter 2 because it scares chilldren, things are going crazy
3:34. Why he look back at the monitor like it was gonna he a different picture than his laptop 😂
Let's keep debating how violent movies and video games can influence mass shooters but do not stop selling those assault weapons to everyone 😂
It’s only an assault weapon when you assault someone with it
I plan on taking my son to this movie opening weekend. I do think about these things when I do go out but I don't want to hide away in this world
Remember the 80s when there was that backlash against slasher films and movies like William Lusting's MANIAC on how they could possibly trigger men to kill women and wear them as hats? I certainly do. The horror genre has been dealing with this for as I can remember. Now, people are wigging out over a comic book movie of the Joker. I have serious doubt that the next societal rampage is due to a DC comics movie.
More and more light needs to be brought to mental health. Guns are not the problem! People are the problem!
I play many violent video games and watch many violent movies, but I am a very kind and caring person. These things definitely do not cause people to be violent.
The aurora shooter did not think he was the Joker. That was debunked a long time ago. Stop spreading that lie.
Context is everything. Videogames and movies are entertainment. Gun violence is awful but it wasnt a movie or any form of entertainment that made shooters pull the trigger
In marketing bussiness pshycology is used alot. They started understanding one simple thing. An ad can not make you suddenly want the product in the ad. But the reason they show the same ad many times is beacuse if you are in the situation where you want or need a similar product, and this ad pops up it will affect you. And this is how movies and games and storys and everything works. So unless u have tendencies to harm other people a violent movie or a game will not make you kill people.
I am from the UK I Have The perspective From Looking In, Hear Me out. When will America draw a line in The Sand ?You have to understand That It's not the films Fault, it's The countries, Simple As, it's Time to hold Yourselfs Accountable, For 5 Years I've worked On Outreach Projects With Chickenshed Theatre company To prevent Knife Crime In London, Teaching teaching young offenders/ teenagers and young adults In Schools/Colleges/ Prisons, To put their Passion into something that can be worthwhile and not get them killed, we teach them directing and acting and in doing so we have have helped over 1000 people affiliated with or apart of urban culture find too find a carrer path in Performing arts and Leave Knife Crime For Good, Outreach Projects for control is the right step in the Right direction.. which leads me to my next Point .. The Very fact that the Tabloids in America have used The joker as a Scapegoat Too protest and Say That the Film Encourages Violence is quite Honestly One of the most pathetic Things I've ever heard off, How about people within The USA pull their Fingers out off their Arses, and Actually Tackle Gun Control, Then Maybe Nobody Has To be Scared Shitless for their life going To a theatre,School, supermarket, When will the penny drop ?
There are films in history that revelled in graphic violence and pain as entertainment.Others are dramas that make us question things and our responsibility to society.Its only something each persons conscience and viewpoints are.
Ultimately people are responsible for their behaviour artists, filmmakers etc..cannot be held responsible for the behaviour of others. However from what I am reading and hearing joker is about a man with possible mental health issues who is downtrodden by society, bullied, marginalised etc...and then reaches his breaking point and exacts violent retribution. What is problematic for America is that there has been a number of instances of young men with possible mental health issues who also feel marginalised, bullied and downtrodden and react violently i.e. shooting up their school or some other place so there is in fact a legitimate question surrounding what the movie might be perceived as promoting or in fact excusing
My issue with the way this discussion went down is how Jo one is pointing out why Joker *specifically* is having this controversy. You can't compare the Joker to Deadpool or John Wick or even Rambo. It's not the same. What Heath Ledger did in 08 and his subsequent death cemented Joker as one of the most beloved and bad guys of all time. He isn't a Joffery Lannister (Baratheon) where you hate him because he's so bad, but admire him for being so good at being so bad. Joker is worshiped. He's on a peddastle. That's why there's so much concern for this film, and I agree it does give me pause. That said I will be there opening weekend to see for myself, but I am nervous of the fallout.
Have to point something out
Don't blame them for getting this wrong since the media misreported and didn't correct themselves, but the Aurora shooting had nothing to do with the movie itself. The shooter didn't even claim he was the Joker. That was something said by two FBI agents, and local police have been fighting it ever since. He chose that theater because of the known long response time. And he chose that particular time and room because he knew he could secure the door and there were likely to be no children there. It could have been a midnight screening of any movie. He had all sorts of other things leading up to the night, but an obsession with Joker or a need to emulate the character was not one of them.
Do not act fearful ! If we do then these people that do these horrible things win. They feed off of this fear, we show that we are not afraid and I think we will over come 👍🏼
PG-13 Joker: why so serious?
Rated R Joker: Why not?
Movie theaters in canada are safe. I have never experienced threats while at the movies.
Nothing. Unless the creator expressly says that it’s meant to be received a certain way, holding the creator accountable for how other people interpret their art is ludicrous. If a mentally ill person sees this movie and does something terrible because of it, it is not Todd Phillips’ nor Joaquin Phoenix’s fault. You can’t blame someone for the self-chosen actions of another.
They don't have to cross their fingers. It isn't on them. And there will definitely be reports of Joker inspired acts. It seems we just have to go through this every so often.
So... this is them trying to make the movie flop at the box office
The aurora families started this. With their letter to warner bros.
@@michael.2188 some of the families! Worth noted, that not all of them supported that letter. Also, with all due respect, they were asking for money from Warner Bros!
@@lo3466 Yes, youre right. Some of them and indeed they were asking for money. Its just annoys me lol. However, still they brought the whole thing up. Now its in the news. And now some asshole watching might want to do something stupid.
@@michael.2188 tbh nobody was talking about violence & attacks before the media blew it up! Ppl were talking about how it is nice to finally have mental illness illustrated & stuff like that. Ugh
@@lo3466 yeah exactly, the media big time. It was supposed to be another movie dropping that looked good thats all. Its like a trigger lol. Jhon wick 3 was hella violent lmao
wow. :/ The fact that this is something that you guys have to think about is so disheartening. All I can say is thank god I live in Toronto
Sadly they have bought into the fear mongering by the media. Gun homicides are half of what they used to be in the 80s and 90s.
Movies can be art, video games can be art, you can’t control what other people do, I 100% agree with Roxy
We LIVE in a society.
If anything were to happen at a showing of the movie, personally I would blame the media for raising the dicussion and blowing it out of proportion. The movie will be blamed and the media won’t. The outlets will sit back and say told you so, when had they said nothing, then the movie would have come and gone with no issues.
People are acting as if the Joker character just suddenly exists. Dude has been killing people and being a psycho for the past 80 years. Read a comic.
Being afraid of those people only make them stronger. Courage for art and courage in society will make them weaker.
Well done all contributing. It's a sad reality but this an appropriate discussion & healthy conversation that needs to take place. It's ok to have concerns. I also support the film makers & the art they choose to make. It's all subjective & a rational concern. I'm looking forward to this film. But I will be holding off on seeing this until the noise around it subsides. It's just a reality of the times.
Those of us in the field of psychology are probably shaking our heads throughout this video. No psychologist, counselor, or any other mental health professional will straight up say, "Violent movies cause violent behavior." Instead, we say, there is a CORRELATION (key word here) between being frequently exposed to violent movies and exhibiting aggressive behavior. Correlation shows a relationship between the two, but does not say one exclusively CAUSES the other. For example, a correlation suggests frequent exposure to violent movies is a contributing factor, not the sole cause, of more aggressive behavior.
Read about Albert Bandura's groundbreaking Bobo doll experiment. Read about social learning theory and cultivation theory. No one can definitively say that violent movies lead to mass shootings because we know this is not true. There are multiple factors that contribute to shaping someone into a violent person, and consumption of violent media may be one of them. I disagree with dismissive attitudes about violent media and its effects on people because there's a long history and huge body of research that consistently finds significant correlations between violent media and violent behavior.
People struggle to understand concerns and critiques about violent media because people don't understand the difference between causation and correlation.
Hold them accountable for a uncompromising amazing film to be shown to the public bedside it these ridiculous ass media people!!!!
I enjoyed this discussion. You guys handle it very well
The media had the same security concerns when the NWA movie came out. I forget how many theaters got shot up?
LordMarkie 88 Oh, yeah... damn, I really forgot about that until now 😬
There is no ''Controversy'' stop with that. It's obvious that people have some sort of agenda against Joker movie. Where were those people when Halloween, Purge and John Wicks movies came out?
Anthony Burgess author of Clockwork Orange after the book and movie had a similar statement that art has no influence or causality on its audience however towards the end of his life he seemed to reverse on that idea. I don’t if a work of art or entertainment can influence an audience I doubt it but maybe...
I teach students with Severe Mental Health, and TBh when that girl said parent your kids, I would of walked out of the room, saying go back to your glass house and stick to hosting a radio show. Then she knew she was wrong and did the typical O i have a family member blah just shut up. Thankfully the host set her straight by being nice when he really was like , just shut up now.
Yeah i think people just have the idea that because a character is the main character means that they are the hero. But that just isn't true
Marc is the only logical person and authentic person. Everyone else is clickbait
Joker isn't a Hero for some maybe, but it doesn't Mean he's Not a Victim of the world he lives in too, for we are all effected differently from the world we live in but not all of us live in the same world as the people around us sometimes the people in our world effect us more than anything else can, because they can make us believe the absurd and possibly be the reason why atrocities happen in our lives but that always falls back on how we react with character whose development smiles instead
In my opinion news outlets need to act more responsibly. Let’s say (God forbid) someone shoots up a theatre on opening night. The shooter will have not seen the movie... And yet the story the next day would be: Joker inspires shooter. But what actually inspired the shooter - The movie they haven’t even seen or could it be they were inspired by all the media attention around a “possible threat”? Don’t get me wrong, the news outlets would not then be responsible, just as the movie wouldn’t be. However we know that these sick people are after notoriety and infamy. Studies have shown that copycats are inspired when shooters’ names are used on tv. I’m concerned that all the media seem to be anticipating a tragedy so much that it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
People kill in the name of religion, is religion a bad thing? No. I am a religious person and I see the beautiful aspect of it and it brought to the world a lot of good things. Violent people do violence, they just need an excuse. It's just a movie.
I see, 🤔 there are people taking this topic seriously. I can see there are people aware of the dangerous situations your society creates.
worry not tho. It makes no sense to live a life in fear.
y'all aware. awake. that's a huge step. even if there's nothing you can do to change your society right now. Just by being "awake" is a huge step in the right direction.
I rather live 25 years without fear then live till my 80's in fear
no one says this type of stuff for movies like zodiac or Hereditary for being violent so why would joker get so much flak for violence but they are critically acclaimed films. Critics are specifically doing this because they want to look for a excuse to hate it.
Hold media accountable *
Look, nobody is saying the film will incite violence. No film is able to do that (hell ppl were afraid DO THE RIGHT THING would incite riots in black neighborhoods...)
The PROBLEM some ppl have is that the film presents ideas in such a way that they irresponsibly hold them up as a reasonable alternative to the norm. I get ppl in the collider base are annoyed that ppl are complaining about art, BUT it's important to remember that NO ONE is saying the film should be censored, just that it doesn't do enough to condemn some of the rhetoric used.
I haven't seen it and look forward to it. I'm not against this film or against supporting it (we should all be more willing to support boundary pushing blockbuster entertainment), but I do think THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with critics and film writers writing about or discussing the possibly problematic elements in any given film.
Phillips has said he doesn't come down on where or not the Joker is wrong or good (not concretely) and having that grey area IS kind of a weird way to position what is obviously a villain. Make a stance! One can make disturbing art that's provocative, smart, perceptive, and real while also making the point that, "THIS BEHAVIOR IS NOT SOMETHING WE SHOULD CONSIDER".
DO THE RIGHT THING is all the things Joker is, it just also happens to be very firm on the notion that the life of an individual is not equivalent to some real estate; and that's one of the 10 best films ever. so don't attack each other, and keep an open mind. We all have valuable perspectives to add to this film conversation.
Have a great day everybody!
I agree with Roxy, The fear of someone popping off shots makes going to the theater a task. Esp. when I take my son.
Why would you take your son to see joker?
@@thelowgradehero4361 Im talking about the theater in general. Why would it even be a concern to you what movie I take my kid to see?
🐈
Honestly, y does these horrible acts of violence happen in America mainly
Easy access to assault weapons and a culture that loves guns
@@vivid_execution7014 true.
@Walter White America has just as many guns as we do people.
C'mon, lol.
This is why I have a concealed weapons permit. It's a shame that we have come to this that we cant go to the movies without looking over our shoulders. But if these areas were not gun free zones these tragedies go down alot.
It's weird to me how people keep connecting Joker to mass shootings when the Joker has never been a mass shooter. Yes he does kill certain people but he's never walked into a school or a church and shot a bunch of people. That's not his style.
Roxy & Mark’s friend are prime examples of this bullshit, they amp up this bullshit so much that it’s legitimately got people paranoid & afraid to go to see a damn movie. Smh
If movies and games are responsible for violence does that mean that world was peaceful before Hollywood and video games?
Creators aren't responsible for anything but art. WE as parents and human beings need to do a better job of correcting the hateful society that we live in.
How about hold people accountable for their own actions since they made the decision?
So artist should be held "accountable" now and art scrutinized?? We are heading in a very dangerous direction
You can’t point at old movies and say it never happened. The rich kid that shot Reagan was a copycat of taxi driver. He thought he was deniro
I thought we moved past this. We are regressing as a society. This is shit from 50+ years ago, when they blamed rock music for people doing bad things. People need to be held accountable for their actions, so quit blaming inanimate objects for people's actions. They blamed Marilyn Manson for Columbine and it's just completely idiotic. It's almost like the last 50 years in the advancement of science, psychology, etc. never happened with this type of thinking.
Marilyn Manson was a scapegoat -you're correct. An easy target for the mainstream media and the religious right.
So why is this movie being scrutinized than say any violent film like John Wick films or Liam Neeson films?
At 7:02 you mention that the aroura shooting happened during the dark knight which is false, this was during the dark knight rises and which has not one scene with the joker in it, and to have this family that had this tragic and terrible thing happen to them, blame another film that has the only similar point is that some lunatic said he was the joker, but this should be, as one of you said, rooted back to the main issue of this man and others like him’s availability to weapons to harm others, and to also ruin another films reputation even before its release is in my opinion unfair
Not a damn thing
People need to chill out. This media attention is what is going to create a shooting, not the movie
You can’t hold them accountable for any of the shit ppl have in their heads they’re just making a movie about a character they even said it’s not even meant to provoke anything just a movie
This movie is not a controversy, the institutional failure of the self aggrandizing media they know whats best for the public more than the artist or the public itself is a huge controversy