People on the outside of evangelicalism have NO idea how painful this can be. I was a part of Willow Creek as a kid back in the 70s, went to Trinity College, worked as a Christian Ed director. Won an Evangelical Press Award for my writing. All the things. Leaving was hard. Very hard. I felt so lost. That was in the early 2000’s, before the truth came out about their leader. Without Church, what was I? Well, I figured it out, and now I’m free. Truly free. I went into progressive ministry for awhile. And then, one day, I realized that I cannot read a creed and really, really buy into it. I am now more involved in earth-based spirituality. The local woods are where I connect with what really matters. I con’t recognize who I was twenty years ago. In fact, when I run into people I used to hang with in Trinityland, I can hardly believe that they still believe all that stuff. So, glad to be free of the shackles of high demand, authoritarian religion.
I’m an incel loner with very very few friends. Sure, it’s painful some days but I am also spared from the difficulty of losing these relationships that people rely on. I just try and find my joy in life with things I’m able to experience
Boy I know you feel, I was with a Christian fellowship that I thought was as close to what first century Christians were like as any I have ever seen. At first it was awesome and there was all kinds of supernatural signs, miracles and wonders and faith evidences and confirmations and there was so many amazing testimonies about the way God had worked in their lives. So what happened later was completely unexpected because it was so stealthy and the changes and shifts so slow and subtle and below the radar screen that nobody, including me, saw it coming. But I started to begin to see certain patterns of very aggressive even borderline abusive assertions of authority by the elders, leaders, pastors and ministers. Eventually I started to question some of the doctrine I had been taught as it didn't seem to agree with ALL of the scripture. I went to my pastor and a couple of the elders and rather than receiving some wisdom and guidance and a positive answer, instead I got put down hard for even raising the question. Later on it became clear that if anyone, even if they are sincere and honest and looking for some solid real answers, said anything that would challenge the doctrine that our ministry had received, or would in any way potentially challenge or possibly embarrass any of the elders authority, that person would be bullied, attacked, victimized, and publicly humiliated. At first I thought these patterns were not patterns but isolated anomalous incidents but pretty soon it clear that this kind of response was the norm and not the exception. Other things started Happening too like suddenly the leadership which had always been politically neutral started espousing right wing political ideology, not only that but they then began mixing that politics in with the teaching and preaching of the gospel. Because most, but by no means all, of the congregation leaned sometimes hard but usually moderately conservative this shift at first was concealed built into and hidden in some of the teaching, usually dealing with freedom, material prosperity and nationalistic loyalty, pride and patriotism. Like I said at the beginning this move away from political neutrality to conservative positions did not appear to be that problematic serious. But that did not last long I myself was a moderate center left leaning liberal I was reading one of John Gardners books who founded the group common cause. Now Gardner was a former marine and someone who believed strongly in our democratic government and even though it had flaws also had faith that those flaws were correctable and our form of government could be reformed and improved. But my pastor started railing against government as if it was inherently evil and irredeemably corrupt! I didn't know what to think as he had never expressed any such extreme political views before, and it seemed as completely out of character for this extremely accomplished, intelligent and experienced mature believer and positive male role model in Christ. Well soon some of the extremist antigovernment ideology began to be shared by most of the leadership and eventually I found the leadership forcing and imposing these ideas on people. In fact one time my pastor told me directly that I had to conform to the herd like a blind follower of the blind, at this point I realized that something very evil and wrong was going on, but I still couldn't clearly define it, I just a feeling and this was very frustrating. Eventually I was literally thrown out of the church for my disobedience, rebellion and disrespect for authority this rejection was so damaging and hurtful that it literally took years to even partially heal and recover from, indeed the wounds don't ever fully heal.
It’s true, relationships need to come from two sides, if one side kicks the other out, it’s over, no matter how much you invested in it. Hence people are afraid of relationships to lose money, time etc when it ends.
It’s painful. I had severe depression and had to seek professional help from deconstruction. I had no idea there was a thing called deconstruction. I tried apologetics but that was more like whack a mole. I needed a new theology and just now finding it through awesome people like David and Pete Enns.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
apparently Francis... you are proving something: you don't know a thing about the word of God. what a theologically uninformed statement and complete ignorance of both historic Jewish and Christian doctrine? Very interesting... and scary.
People on the outside of evangelicalism have NO idea how painful this can be. I was a part of Willow Creek as a kid back in the 70s, went to Trinity College, worked as a Christian Ed director. Won an Evangelical Press Award for my writing. All the things. Leaving was hard. Very hard. I felt so lost. That was in the early 2000’s, before the truth came out about their leader. Without Church, what was I? Well, I figured it out, and now I’m free. Truly free. I went into progressive ministry for awhile. And then, one day, I realized that I cannot read a creed and really, really buy into it. I am now more involved in earth-based spirituality. The local woods are where I connect with what really matters. I con’t recognize who I was twenty years ago. In fact, when I run into people I used to hang with in Trinityland, I can hardly believe that they still believe all that stuff. So, glad to be free of the shackles of high demand, authoritarian religion.
Coming out as Gay at 27....
Got dumped by many "Christian" friends. 😢
I believe it - so crazy - and that makes me sad for you. Know that there is a whole other world out you who love you and celebrates the true you.
It's not how they treat you when you join but how they treat you if you choose to leave.
astute point.
I’m an incel loner with very very few friends. Sure, it’s painful some days but I am also spared from the difficulty of losing these relationships that people rely on. I just try and find my joy in life with things I’m able to experience
Boy I know you feel, I was with a Christian fellowship that I thought was as close to what first century Christians were like as any I have ever seen. At first it was awesome and there was all kinds of supernatural signs, miracles and wonders and faith evidences and confirmations and there was so many amazing testimonies about the way God had worked in their lives. So what happened later was completely unexpected because it was so stealthy and the changes and shifts so slow and subtle and below the radar screen that nobody, including me, saw it coming. But I started to begin to see certain patterns of very aggressive even borderline abusive assertions of authority by the elders, leaders, pastors and ministers. Eventually I started to question some of the doctrine I had been taught as it didn't seem to agree with ALL of the scripture. I went to my pastor and a couple of the elders and rather than receiving some wisdom and guidance and a positive answer, instead I got put down hard for even raising the question. Later on it became clear that if anyone, even if they are sincere and honest and looking for some solid real answers, said anything that would challenge the doctrine that our ministry had received, or would in any way potentially challenge or possibly embarrass any of the elders authority, that person would be bullied, attacked, victimized, and publicly humiliated. At first I thought these patterns were not patterns but isolated anomalous incidents but pretty soon it clear that this kind of response was the norm and not the exception. Other things started Happening too like suddenly the leadership which had always been politically neutral started espousing right wing political ideology, not only that but they then began mixing that politics in with the teaching and preaching of the gospel. Because most, but by no means all, of the congregation leaned sometimes hard but usually moderately conservative this shift at first was concealed built into and hidden in some of the teaching, usually dealing with freedom, material prosperity and nationalistic loyalty, pride and patriotism. Like I said at the beginning this move away from political neutrality to conservative positions did not appear to be that problematic serious. But that did not last long I myself was a moderate center left leaning liberal I was reading one of John Gardners books who founded the group common cause. Now Gardner was a former marine and someone who believed strongly in our democratic government and even though it had flaws also had faith that those flaws were correctable and our form of government could be reformed and improved. But my pastor started railing against government as if it was inherently evil and irredeemably corrupt! I didn't know what to think as he had never expressed any such extreme political views before, and it seemed as completely out of character for this extremely accomplished, intelligent and experienced mature believer and positive male role model in Christ. Well soon some of the extremist antigovernment ideology began to be shared by most of the leadership and eventually I found the leadership forcing and imposing these ideas on people. In fact one time my pastor told me directly that I had to conform to the herd like a blind follower of the blind, at this point I realized that something very evil and wrong was going on, but I still couldn't clearly define it, I just a feeling and this was very frustrating. Eventually I was literally thrown out of the church for my disobedience, rebellion and disrespect for authority this rejection was so damaging and hurtful that it literally took years to even partially heal and recover from, indeed the wounds don't ever fully heal.
It’s true, relationships need to come from two sides, if one side kicks the other out, it’s over, no matter how much you invested in it. Hence people are afraid of relationships to lose money, time etc when it ends.
It’s painful. I had severe depression and had to seek professional help from deconstruction. I had no idea there was a thing called deconstruction. I tried apologetics but that was more like whack a mole. I needed a new theology and just now finding it through awesome people like David and Pete Enns.
yay darrell... I applaud your courage and being true to yourself, and trusting your own inner-voice to the divine.
Run Forrest, run! Don't walk away from these people!
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
Are you commenting in this fashion about those participating in this podcast or the people who they are talking about?
A christian talking about fables. That is irony.
Yawn....
I consider all of you courageous heros. Thanks for your inspiration.
thank you kindly, randy.
Try Catholicism if you really want to get rejected by Evangelicals. 😅
So sorry you've experienced that - but I am not surprised.
Or tell them that you worship Baal now a days.
And if they complain tell them that Baal is the son of Jahwe.
The Word of God tells Christians to separate themselves from unbelievers.
apparently Francis... you are proving something: you don't know a thing about the word of God. what a theologically uninformed statement and complete ignorance of both historic Jewish and Christian doctrine? Very interesting... and scary.