A very effective trick that was past on to me long age and made brake bleeding quite simple is on the bleeding hose as close to the bleeder valve as possible is to make a small loop using either tape or cable wraps then the hose being held in a reclaim bottle. This creates kind of an air lock and once you fill the loop with brake fluid there no way far air to get sucked back into the calipers. This way you can open the bleeder valve slightly ( just enough to pass fluid, too much and you'll suck air around the threads on the valve) then use the multiple pump method just take your time and keep the master cylinder full as you go. This should help when pushing the air in the over the fender line not needing to stop and start bleed process, keep pumping keep adding fluid until you've pumped several ounces ( more than enough to flush the entire line). The lever will feel light until you close the bleeder valve then it'll be firm. Bleed from the farthest point from the master cylinder and the entire line is bled. Works every time, easy least!!
great video, i ended up bleeding the rear brakes and changing the fluid, no air in the system so that wasnt the issue. i also cleaned the calipers also didnt work. turned out that the brake pads had a sheen on them so werent gripping the disc. i used degreaser to clean the brake disc and get rid of any old dust, new pads on and the brakes were perfect again, its something which i think is overlooked in most videos related to soft brakes on a bike as it feels like theres air in the line but its actually the brake pads that are the issue.
Hi Jonathan and thanks. There is a difference between soft brakes and the pads not providing braking effect - this is why it isn't included in the discussion of soft brakes. Soft brakes are felt as movement in the lever even when the brakes are locked solid, hard brakes provide a hard feel in the lever once the pads hit the disk. Brakes pads which are not biting with hard braking feel will still feel hard, the bike will just not brake effectively. Replacing pads and cleaning the disk can improve the braking on the bike but are not a cause of soft brakes - although in the process trapped air can be removed which has the effect of improving the braking feel. Glad to hear that you solved your problem.
If you had bubbles coming out then you have taken the first steps. If you did that properly then you will have released the air in the top part of the system - but if you have air traps - ABS, brake line loops etc then you need to clear those separately.
Assuming your callipers are working properly and the pistons aren't sticking, then you've either still got air or possibly the master cylinder needs rebuilding. Air is the obvious issue. Take the top off the master cylinder and gently work the lever (too hard and you'll get a squirt of fluid). Work it for a while - if see any micro bubbles coming up through the fluid in the master cylinder then you've still got air. Good luck!
Single caliper works the same. ABS is an issue because the system design almost always builds in air traps - typically ABS requires pressure bleeding to overcome this.
I just replaced the pads and brake fluid on my honda, and the brakes just don't bite. The brake lever and pedal are both very firm, and I can lock up both wheels, but it seems to take a lot more effort than it did before. Any idea what would cause this?
You should be able to apply the brakes with one or two fingers. If it takes more effort than that.... Did you clean the calipers and pistons when you changed the pads and fluid? Most common cause of increasing effort to apply the brakes is when the seals on the pistons are grabbing the pistons and not allowing them to slide cleanly. If you've not done it for a while it might be time to pull the pistons and change the seals.
Brakes are simple things (unless you complicate them with ABS) - the solution is always obvious once you've taken a step back and gone through them properly. Good luck! Skäl David
@@MotoMirius did the stack last night no bends at all left brakes on over night came home from work started the bleed and put calipers back on and we have went from zero brakes to great brakes. Seems to have done the trick. Cheers for the advice 😊
I did this and the brake worked for 5 days and now no pressure in the pedal. Tap the predal down several time there is pressure back but loses it again in a minute. No leaks. Break fluid tank is full from my last flush. What could be going wrong!!
First check the hoses - stock rubber hoses have a 4 year lifespan. Assuming hoses and master cylinder is good I always recommend the following for rear brakes - top up the master cylinder. Crack open the bleed nipple. Quickly pump the the pedal until the master cylinder is nearly empty and then nip up the bleed nipple - do not do this before that. Refill the master cylinder and repeat at least two more times. Don't allow the level to go too low or you will pump air into the system. If that doesn't cure it, you've got a mechanical problem - hoses, a leak in the caliper or the master cylinder needs rebuilding. Good luck! David
I just rebuilt all of my calipers the rear worked fine the front aren't engaging although I have bled it 10 times already and there's no air the Pistons aren't engaging I had them pushed all the way in when I redid the new Pistons. I'm wondering why they're not being pushed out with the hydraulic pressure like I said everything is brand new and I have fluid at the bleeder valve and there seems to be no air
It has no pressure at all, but it bleeds out of the bleeders on both sides but it won't build up pressure! So my guess is the Pistons are pushed down so far the fluid isn't building up to push them out. That's my only guess but technically the way the valves were designed the fluid should be pressing underneath the Pistons already
I just discovered my rear brake reservoir was bone dry. Can I just top it up with brake fluid, or do I have to bleed the brakes as well since it had no fluid in it ?
If the brake is firm and not spongy you could just add fluid. The real question is why it's empty. Normally that means the pads are worn out - when you change the pads, the fluid will flow back into the reservoir. If the pads are OK and you have a leak, you would expect it to be spongy.
@@AustinPetDetective You do need to figure out what happened to the fluid. It's a closed system and it doesn't evaporate. Of course if it's a new bike to you and you have only just seen this then you can blame the previous owner. Don't top it right up to the line unless the brake pads are new.
Hello sir. My bike doesnt uses disk brakes. Uses Drum type. I changed my brake pad today but i dont feel that instant braking instead i feel kinda spongy when i apply the rear brake. What can i do please?
Most rear drum brakes don't use fluid. If you do have a hydraulic rear drum brake then I recommend the same as for disk - just flush the fluid through for two or three reservoirs full of fluid (more with ABS). Don't let the reservoir go empty and leave the drain on the rear brake open while you pump the fluid - don't bother with opening and closing between each pump - just open it, pump quickly until the reservoir is close to empty then close the bleed nipple. Good luck. Skäl David
As one highly experienced engineer said on this subject - there is the right way and then there are the shortcuts taken by those who want the job done quickly
Hello sir. I bleeded the front and rear of my bmw f800gs. Had no problems at the rear. On the front no matter how long i bleed the calipers (only clean fluid comes out), it seems like there is still air trapped in the system. The following happens when pulling the brake lever: ruclips.net/video/bPuovH6saew/видео.html. Now the part about circle shaped brake hoses is interesting, i do have that above my front wheel. Do you have any further advise? Thanks for making these video's.
Thanks. Yes, a loop over the front wheel will trap air. You can take the second caliper off and sit it lower on the other side of the wheel - put something between the pads so they don't pop out then the air can travel up to the other caliper and then up. ABS if you have it will also cause issues in creating air traps.
@@beatsmarttie5777 It won't hurt but it won't necessarily bleed the air out of the pipes that lead to and from it. I've never bothered to buy one because you don't really need it. But it's a nice toy to have.
@@beatsmarttie5777 Yes. Emergency stops are something that you should always practice from time to time, just like any other rider skill. ABS is a crutch - it's a good tool, but tools can break. I have an ABS video if you dig for it. Generally speaking air doesn't get trapped in the ABS unit - it gets trapped in the lines leading to and from the ABS unit and only certain ABS units even need bleeding.
🤣 " air is very squashy, water is a little bit more squashy and certainly is more squashy than brake fluid. To a certain degree". What absolute crap! A gas is compressible and eventually turns to a liquid under enough pressure, water is a liquid and will only compress very slightly. A liquids volume doesn't change with pressure.
A liquids volume does compress under pressure. It's not a lot with water but it does compress. To be fair, that was an off the cuff statement that wasn't what I intended to say at that point, but that is part of the fun of not reading from a script (and yes, pretty much all the big channels are scripted, regardless of how much it appears to be live) and instead talking live to camera, while your mind is actually occupied with what you are doing next.
@@razvan4553 No. No impact at all. Rotors wear unevenly so new pads don't work very well at first, but the lever will still be stiff. You can think of brake fluid as flexible metal - it really doesn't compress very much so the lever should be solid - if the lever is soft it's because you have air in the line (which squashes), a leaking joint or a failure in master cylinder - but in 99% of cases is is air.
A very effective trick that was past on to me long age and made brake bleeding quite simple is on the bleeding hose as close to the bleeder valve as possible is to make a small loop using either tape or cable wraps then the hose being held in a reclaim bottle. This creates kind of an air lock and once you fill the loop with brake fluid there no way far air to get sucked back into the calipers. This way you can open the bleeder valve slightly ( just enough to pass fluid, too much and you'll suck air around the threads on the valve) then use the multiple pump method just take your time and keep the master cylinder full as you go. This should help when pushing the air in the over the fender line not needing to stop and start bleed process, keep pumping keep adding fluid until you've pumped several ounces ( more than enough to flush the entire line). The lever will feel light until you close the bleeder valve then it'll be firm. Bleed from the farthest point from the master cylinder and the entire line is bled. Works every time, easy least!!
Finally got them to work thank you sooooo much I was going crazy trying to find out the issue 😂
Great work in getting the work done! Skäl David
great video, i ended up bleeding the rear brakes and changing the fluid, no air in the system so that wasnt the issue. i also cleaned the calipers also didnt work. turned out that the brake pads had a sheen on them so werent gripping the disc. i used degreaser to clean the brake disc and get rid of any old dust, new pads on and the brakes were perfect again, its something which i think is overlooked in most videos related to soft brakes on a bike as it feels like theres air in the line but its actually the brake pads that are the issue.
Hi Jonathan and thanks. There is a difference between soft brakes and the pads not providing braking effect - this is why it isn't included in the discussion of soft brakes. Soft brakes are felt as movement in the lever even when the brakes are locked solid, hard brakes provide a hard feel in the lever once the pads hit the disk. Brakes pads which are not biting with hard braking feel will still feel hard, the bike will just not brake effectively. Replacing pads and cleaning the disk can improve the braking on the bike but are not a cause of soft brakes - although in the process trapped air can be removed which has the effect of improving the braking feel. Glad to hear that you solved your problem.
I tried this technique. Sounds too good to be true, A few bubbles came out, but had little or no effect.
If you had bubbles coming out then you have taken the first steps. If you did that properly then you will have released the air in the top part of the system - but if you have air traps - ABS, brake line loops etc then you need to clear those separately.
A little fiddling around and you got there in the end 👍🏻
It's not the most elegant method in the world but the failure rate is low! Skäl Dave
Is that delboys bike you have there
Yes it is. Good to see that you recognise the build. Skäl. David
I have brake pipe cross over and a three way split to contend with. Been using a vacuum pump to suck through 500ml of fluid and still soft.
How old are your brake lines? Skäl. David
@@MotoMirius brand new hoses, 22yr old metal Cross over. I left over night with the lever closed and still soft.
Assuming your callipers are working properly and the pistons aren't sticking, then you've either still got air or possibly the master cylinder needs rebuilding. Air is the obvious issue. Take the top off the master cylinder and gently work the lever (too hard and you'll get a squirt of fluid). Work it for a while - if see any micro bubbles coming up through the fluid in the master cylinder then you've still got air. Good luck!
@@MotoMirius I found a few. I'll continue! Already spent several days. The VFR is a pain to bleed
In case you haven’t seen it Getting Air Out Of Motorcycle Brake Systems : Mini Skills
Excellent Video! A+
Thank you very much!
Hey David,
How do I perform the technique #4 Tatro bleed with a single caliper setup and will it work for ABS?
Single caliper works the same. ABS is an issue because the system design almost always builds in air traps - typically ABS requires pressure bleeding to overcome this.
@@MotoMirius Got it
when tying up de brake lever do i have to leave the reservoir cap open?
No, you can leave it closed - at least leave the cap in place so that the fluid does not absorb water from the air
I just replaced the pads and brake fluid on my honda, and the brakes just don't bite. The brake lever and pedal are both very firm, and I can lock up both wheels, but it seems to take a lot more effort than it did before. Any idea what would cause this?
You should be able to apply the brakes with one or two fingers. If it takes more effort than that.... Did you clean the calipers and pistons when you changed the pads and fluid? Most common cause of increasing effort to apply the brakes is when the seals on the pistons are grabbing the pistons and not allowing them to slide cleanly. If you've not done it for a while it might be time to pull the pistons and change the seals.
Iv just did this I really hopes works for me cause my head is about to go with these brakes 😂
Brakes are simple things (unless you complicate them with ABS) - the solution is always obvious once you've taken a step back and gone through them properly. Good luck! Skäl David
@@MotoMirius did the stack last night no bends at all left brakes on over night came home from work started the bleed and put calipers back on and we have went from zero brakes to great brakes. Seems to have done the trick. Cheers for the advice 😊
@@Jaymore90s Great work there!
Good effort! 👍
Cheers Edward. I thought I needed to clarify that from my previous video. Skäl. David
I did this and the brake worked for 5 days and now no pressure in the pedal. Tap the predal down several time there is pressure back but loses it again in a minute. No leaks. Break fluid tank is full from my last flush. What could be going wrong!!
You may need a new master cylinder - not so many rebuild kits for the rear.
Hi there mate just got a kx85 I’ve bleed the rear brakes but it’s still soft and won’t stop the tyre ? Any suggestions
First check the hoses - stock rubber hoses have a 4 year lifespan. Assuming hoses and master cylinder is good I always recommend the following for rear brakes - top up the master cylinder. Crack open the bleed nipple. Quickly pump the the pedal until the master cylinder is nearly empty and then nip up the bleed nipple - do not do this before that. Refill the master cylinder and repeat at least two more times. Don't allow the level to go too low or you will pump air into the system. If that doesn't cure it, you've got a mechanical problem - hoses, a leak in the caliper or the master cylinder needs rebuilding. Good luck! David
That’s for a soft rear brake fix ?
@@rahathfarid6796 Yes
@@rahathfarid6796 did this work for you?
I just rebuilt all of my calipers the rear worked fine the front aren't engaging although I have bled it 10 times already and there's no air the Pistons aren't engaging I had them pushed all the way in when I redid the new Pistons. I'm wondering why they're not being pushed out with the hydraulic pressure like I said everything is brand new and I have fluid at the bleeder valve and there seems to be no air
What does the front brake lever feel like?
It has no pressure at all, but it bleeds out of the bleeders on both sides but it won't build up pressure! So my guess is the Pistons are pushed down so far the fluid isn't building up to push them out. That's my only guess but technically the way the valves were designed the fluid should be pressing underneath the Pistons already
And all the pistons and rings inside have been clean flushed and a brand new and the brake master is brand spanking new also
@@julieoliver8170 You have twin front brakes? If so, do you have direct lines to each caliper or does the line loop over the front wheel?
No it's a triumph t509 1997. Master to a doubled up one so they aren't separate.
I just discovered my rear brake reservoir was bone dry. Can I just top it up with brake fluid, or do I have to bleed the brakes as well since it had no fluid in it ?
If the brake is firm and not spongy you could just add fluid. The real question is why it's empty. Normally that means the pads are worn out - when you change the pads, the fluid will flow back into the reservoir. If the pads are OK and you have a leak, you would expect it to be spongy.
@@MotoMirius Pads are good, looks like only 25 % worn, I will refill with brake fluid and check for leaks ? Thanks.
@@AustinPetDetective You do need to figure out what happened to the fluid. It's a closed system and it doesn't evaporate. Of course if it's a new bike to you and you have only just seen this then you can blame the previous owner. Don't top it right up to the line unless the brake pads are new.
Hello sir. My bike doesnt uses disk brakes. Uses Drum type.
I changed my brake pad today but i dont feel that instant braking instead i feel kinda spongy when i apply the rear brake. What can i do please?
Most rear drum brakes don't use fluid. If you do have a hydraulic rear drum brake then I recommend the same as for disk - just flush the fluid through for two or three reservoirs full of fluid (more with ABS). Don't let the reservoir go empty and leave the drain on the rear brake open while you pump the fluid - don't bother with opening and closing between each pump - just open it, pump quickly until the reservoir is close to empty then close the bleed nipple. Good luck. Skäl David
@@MotoMirius yes sir mine is drum type but i dont know why its feeling spongy since i changed it yesterday
@@AhmedMohamed-or3bt Do you have a hydraulic back brake? If not, then you've fitted something wrong - go back and check what you've done.
@@MotoMirius Not hydraulic. Its drum type.
Okey sir. Thank you for the advice.
The question is , is it a permanent or a temporary fix?
Depends on the cause. If you have a fault with the brakes then it won’t fix it - but then nothing will except fixing the fault.
Amazing how some overcomplicate things
As one highly experienced engineer said on this subject - there is the right way and then there are the shortcuts taken by those who want the job done quickly
Hello sir. I bleeded the front and rear of my bmw f800gs. Had no problems at the rear. On the front no matter how long i bleed the calipers (only clean fluid comes out), it seems like there is still air trapped in the system. The following happens when pulling the brake lever: ruclips.net/video/bPuovH6saew/видео.html. Now the part about circle shaped brake hoses is interesting, i do have that above my front wheel. Do you have any further advise? Thanks for making these video's.
Thanks. Yes, a loop over the front wheel will trap air. You can take the second caliper off and sit it lower on the other side of the wheel - put something between the pads so they don't pop out then the air can travel up to the other caliper and then up. ABS if you have it will also cause issues in creating air traps.
@@MotoMirius alright. So buying a obd scanner to bleed the abs pump won’t hurt either? I have seen the Moto scan app for bmw motorcycles. Looks cool.
@@beatsmarttie5777 It won't hurt but it won't necessarily bleed the air out of the pipes that lead to and from it. I've never bothered to buy one because you don't really need it. But it's a nice toy to have.
@@MotoMirius So you always just went for a ride and did a few emergency stops?
@@beatsmarttie5777 Yes. Emergency stops are something that you should always practice from time to time, just like any other rider skill. ABS is a crutch - it's a good tool, but tools can break. I have an ABS video if you dig for it. Generally speaking air doesn't get trapped in the ABS unit - it gets trapped in the lines leading to and from the ABS unit and only certain ABS units even need bleeding.
🤣 " air is very squashy, water is a little bit more squashy and certainly is more squashy than brake fluid. To a certain degree". What absolute crap! A gas is compressible and eventually turns to a liquid under enough pressure, water is a liquid and will only compress very slightly. A liquids volume doesn't change with pressure.
A liquids volume does compress under pressure. It's not a lot with water but it does compress. To be fair, that was an off the cuff statement that wasn't what I intended to say at that point, but that is part of the fun of not reading from a script (and yes, pretty much all the big channels are scripted, regardless of how much it appears to be live) and instead talking live to camera, while your mind is actually occupied with what you are doing next.
IT DOESNT WORK.
Follow the instructions and it works, skimp something or not listen about the bits like ABS then yeah, you are likely to struggle.
@@MotoMirius what if my rotors are worn off? does it have an impact regarding the stiffness of the braking lever?
@@razvan4553 No. No impact at all. Rotors wear unevenly so new pads don't work very well at first, but the lever will still be stiff. You can think of brake fluid as flexible metal - it really doesn't compress very much so the lever should be solid - if the lever is soft it's because you have air in the line (which squashes), a leaking joint or a failure in master cylinder - but in 99% of cases is is air.