Hi hopper still loving your stuff! I especially loved the last part where you point out that the 3 black whispers respond to his bidding to get into the sanctuary. He and the party had to conquer the 3 white whispers serving as a holy "trinity" opposing the 7 black whispers. At that moment he is in command of an "unholy" trinity and able to enter the Holy of holies and kill Aerith. These are the same number of each color whisper inside his sleeping subconscious forest. FYI - this number and depiction is also a parallel to Crisis Core's portal of severance where the wings on the door have 3 strokes on the right and 7 on the left with on stroke crossing the middle to connect the two sides.....much like our boy Cloud. Keep up the awesome analysis. They're soo good I have to slow them down to .85 speed to take it in. Kind regards
Thank you! I really appreciate the complement and those truly intrepid observations. It's fascinating that there is a growing body of theory surrounding Cloud being the one who exacted murder, not Sephiroth. Though the conclusions I draw from the observations I make don't lead to this, I'm elated and often awed that people draw other, no less valid, conclusions from the same observations. It makes for great conversation as the years unfold and each person's theory picks up different tidbits of information in Ever Crisis, trailers, dev interviews, etc. Even when the dust settles and one theory proves to be more accurate, all those pathways of imagination ventured remain so richly rewarding. Thank you for watching! lol Hopper :)
@@dreamphoenix No problem, my pleasure to be an active observer. I dont think it was Cloud, this one was Jenova....just as in the OG with the red words
And,by the way.......Just fantastic !!!! This Is not Just a brainstorming,but actually what Is more close to the devs intentions that we can find.Really amazing
Interesting about Cloud bearing the burden of creation; especially in light of empty Holy collecting new memories. I have a feeling that [creation and destruction] will find a way to co-exist and work together (this means Cloud joining with Ever Crisis Sephiroth from the edge of creation) AC style. Cloud with a white wing.
I've seen and been fascinated by the idea that we could see a version of Cloud with a wing! Some people believe a white wing, others believe he'll represent unity; and have one black, one white. A portion of this latter group believe Ore Sephiroth will likewise sprout a white wing to join his black, also representing unity. Thank you for the comment!
Aerith sharing her legacy with Cloud by giving him Holy 2x. In Traces of Two Past, she is surprised when Tifa asks her who she is going to pass Holy to. I don't have the text in front of me, but Aerith says something like, "I never thought there may come a time when I'm not the only Cetra." I'm not sure exactly here. All of Aerith's dialog throughout Remake and Rebirth is extremely important. And the scene in Remake where Aerith explains how her materia is special and that it doesn't do anything at all. Before Cloud experiences a future memory and then says, "Bet you just don't know how to use it." and Aerith response, "Could be. It was a gift from my mother." Then fast forward to the church in Rebirth, the dream date where they just embraced and Cloud declared is intention of making new memories with her -> Aerith gives Cloud Holy w/ future memories. Cloud says, "But your mother gave that to you." And Aerith says, "This isn't about me though. It's about saving the world---and you." In the next game, Cloud is going to be making new memories and this is also a clue as to how Zack will cure Cloud when Cloud is rebuilding himself in the Lifestream sequence. Cloud saved Aerith in chapter 14 and his empty hollow recorded it it, therefore she survived in a new world. Part 3 is going to be so much fun. Zack will cure Cloud during the LS sequence by "taking control" and saving himself and Cloud from Hojo. And that will be the a new memory that cures Cloud and wakes him in Terrier world w/ Remake Aerith. "Will you be in the world that I'm trying to save?" Is meant to be Cloud asking that question on regards to Aerith. I think he will find a way. Endgame fight will be Cloud, Aerith, Sephiroth vs. Jenova fully restored from 2,000 years ago. It's going to one hell of legendary epic final fight.
Hooyah to that possibility! I also strongly believe (and will be discussing in a video to come) that the 'Cloud Remembers' sequence will be radically different in effect, though being similar in execution. Two Sephiroth's, Zack, Cloud, Hojo and Tifa are all in them, and they will be as self aware as everyone on the Dream Date/ Zack-lives worlds. And it's a hyperplane, as seen in the FFVII version; where a consciousness can manifest bodily in more than one location simultaneously, especially if they are transcendent... such as Sephiroth. (I don't know if they two aspects will cross swords, but I very much hope so.) I resonate with the idea that Full Form Jenova will be a late journey boss, and possibly also a secret boss. Thank you for the poetic theory and for watching!
It hit me when I went through it but now it's really in my face. Seph's end game might not be meteor. If it was why'd consume it then would be my thinking. But meteor is such an important part of FFVII. If Seph ate meteor then are we deprived of meteor?
I imagine that whether Cloud gives Sephiroth the Black Materia or not, meteor will be witnessed in journey's end. Consider that in a Zack-lives world, seen from the Sector 5 church, meteor is impending. It's just that with increasing unease, I'm not sure meteor is the end game; or simply a means of getting to the end game. Or even no more than a distraction. Thank you for watching!
@@Edu_Hi_FTW Meteor means destruction and Will to destroy......Actually this Is Jenova's but probably not anymore Sephiroth's ultimate purpouse. A villain can be a villain without being a villain....Ardyn Izunya can teach us something about this...
Seph's plan to use Meteor in OG came with the revelation that he would need a colossal amount of spiritual energy to do it, specifically saying he needs to find the Promised Land. In that scene, Jenova/Seph appears and claims that he has done so, as well as traveling the lifestream and absorbing the knowledge of the ancients, as well as those after the ancients were "extinct." I think this is Jenova, because this Seph doesn't flinch at being called a non-Ancient by Aerith. Ore Seph still believes he is an ancient. Stabbing Tseng did not result in a rainbow, and neither did stabbing Barret. These are Jenova wearing Seph's body on numbered clones, not Seph. The Ultimania clarifies that most of the Sephs in Remake's scenes are *not* Sephiroth. Aerith is still looking for the real Cloud. I think she means the part of him, either a fragment or his Omni, having his memories of his mom and Zack. There is some modus operandi about Jenova erasing memories of who's special to him. I have a logical guess about Beagle Aerith going to the capital the same way as OG. In Remake, we already knew the whispers stole enough of her Omni memories for her to comment about losing the path she had. In other words, the whispers reverted this fragment of Aerith to OG Aerith, making her follow the same fate as OG Aerith. Notice she would've followed the same fate without Holy unless Omni Aerith got Corki Aerith to pass the football. Where would Beagle Aerith have gone without Holy after the temple? Nowhere. She would've felt DOOMED, and in this psychic battlefield, that is what ends your world, what makes you Jenova's food. I can't believe I'm just now noticing this. Or MAYBE, it's just like you're saying: Seph planned to consume her doomed soul fragment himself. It would explain why he did nothing about Holy: the Beagle whispers already reverted Holy, because Beagle is a world having no Holy, but his whispers don't regulate Beagle to match the recurring OG dream. His whispers only banish people to other worlds, I guess? Excellent observations about the whispers working together against Cloud, him controlling Seph's whispers to go to Aerith, and the rainbow when Aerith got Holy. This has been a feast of entertainment and revelation. That rainbow seems related to Lucid awareness, where you know you're in a dream and can take control with just thought and willpower. Maybe since these are soul fragments and not the whole soul, they can't take as much control, just like how they can't think as clearly. Have you noticed that? Sometimes they seem sleepyheaded, not alert. "Doom awaiting at an altar." That's what I was thinking the entire time. Seph was outside shooting his mouth off, and I'm like, he's really going to die. It's a death flag. Villains give monologues right before the hero slays them. Seph is trapped in a recurring dream, one now full of Doom references, unaware of them, and now he's dropping his death flag. When Aerith survived, I concluded that Seph saved himself from Doomguy by unmurdering the protagonist...pure epic genius. Like, how do you play cat and mouse with Doomguy? By unbecoming a villain. On how Zack survived, it's always possible Zack's conclusion about the wind is a red herring, like anything else. But the scene shows a bullet being pushed by wind, a whisper, away from him. Terrier is shown in Remake prior to the battle with the Harbinger. The world already existed. So no, Cloud didn't save Zack. Maybe Terrier merging with Beagle is what caused Marlene and Biggs and Zack to cross over, memory intact. This is the only clear outcome of the Harbinger's defeat: Reunion of Terrier with Beagle. Because the whispers surrounded Shinra tower as the party fled Midgar, then expanded into the dome when Sephiroth appeared in front of them, it seems Jenova manipulated them with a plan in mind. My first guess is this prepared Terrier for Reunion, with the local soul fragments being like a beacon for their counterparts in Terrier, who notably are also in a dome. By concentrating so many doomed souls in one location, the Cetra mind prison was broken just a little. Notice Seph enjoys the whispers' screaming and calls it "Destiny is coming", and then a Reunion happens. Keep digging! We are on a roll again!
Thank you for the intrepid incites as always! A humble observation I made about the Barrett being stabbed (and everyone almost dying on the express way due to a crashing helicopter); we didn't see the rainbow effect because singularity hadn't come and collapsed yet. The first instance of rainbow effect we get in Remake is right at the end when Sephiroth sends Cloud to the Edge of Creation. Thank you again for the food for thought, and for watching!
@@dreamphoenix When you point out that Seph took no action about Holy in the Sleeping Forest...can we even prove the negative? We may as well ask why Corki Aerith pushed Cloud through a portal instead of letting him fight Seph right there. Or why didn't she flee with him? Or why Red didnt fly the chopper? "When you are trapped in a horror movie, you make terrible choices." -- a joke from an old commercial. See, this is an example of the "sleepyheadedness" I mentioned. It's hard to pinpoint, because it's so subtle that its indistinguishable from a forgetful Nomura.
@@Drw-id-Kirin Some great questions and lines of reasoning, thank you! 🙏 George Lucas once responded to the question about why Stormtroopers have such poor aim: ~ "If they didn't shoot from the hip, and could actually hit something, Star Wars would have been a whole lot shorter. And the Empire wins." :)
I'm wondering now after watching this, if the Sephiroth that entered the church after Aerith pushes Cloud into the portal, was actually there to kill her. What if he is actually a good Sephiroth? I don't really subscribe to this theory but I do find it interesting.
I've seen this theory explored, and it is intriguing! Hopefully some sort of light is cast upon it at journey's end. Thank you for watching and for the comment!
Actually,we have Sephiroth playing 4D chess against... Sephiroth.Because,as you cleared very well,since the devs stated that there's s none and nothing stronger than Sephiroth,of course Just Sephiroth can destroys Sephiroth.....The clue Will understand how and what goal Is going to achieve Sephiroth doing this once and for all
It'll be very interesting to see how these two aspects of Sephiroth continue to co-exist as Reunion forces worlds together. Sephiroth vs. Sephiroth would been a fantastical exchange of violet wit and sword! Thank you for watching and for the comment!
Good lord thats an amazing finish. I'm crying
Thank you! ❤🙏 This moves me.
Hi hopper still loving your stuff! I especially loved the last part where you point out that the 3 black whispers respond to his bidding to get into the sanctuary. He and the party had to conquer the 3 white whispers serving as a holy "trinity" opposing the 7 black whispers. At that moment he is in command of an "unholy" trinity and able to enter the Holy of holies and kill Aerith. These are the same number of each color whisper inside his sleeping subconscious forest. FYI - this number and depiction is also a parallel to Crisis Core's portal of severance where the wings on the door have 3 strokes on the right and 7 on the left with on stroke crossing the middle to connect the two sides.....much like our boy Cloud. Keep up the awesome analysis. They're soo good I have to slow them down to .85 speed to take it in.
Kind regards
Thank you! I really appreciate the complement and those truly intrepid observations.
It's fascinating that there is a growing body of theory surrounding Cloud being the one who exacted murder, not Sephiroth. Though the conclusions I draw from the observations I make don't lead to this, I'm elated and often awed that people draw other, no less valid, conclusions from the same observations. It makes for great conversation as the years unfold and each person's theory picks up different tidbits of information in Ever Crisis, trailers, dev interviews, etc. Even when the dust settles and one theory proves to be more accurate, all those pathways of imagination ventured remain so richly rewarding.
Thank you for watching!
lol Hopper :)
@@dreamphoenix No problem, my pleasure to be an active observer. I dont think it was Cloud, this one was Jenova....just as in the OG with the red words
And,by the way.......Just fantastic !!!! This Is not Just a brainstorming,but actually what Is more close to the devs intentions that we can find.Really amazing
Thank you! I really appreciate the complement. And thank you for watching!
Interesting about Cloud bearing the burden of creation; especially in light of empty Holy collecting new memories. I have a feeling that [creation and destruction] will find a way to co-exist and work together (this means Cloud joining with Ever Crisis Sephiroth from the edge of creation) AC style. Cloud with a white wing.
I've seen and been fascinated by the idea that we could see a version of Cloud with a wing! Some people believe a white wing, others believe he'll represent unity; and have one black, one white. A portion of this latter group believe Ore Sephiroth will likewise sprout a white wing to join his black, also representing unity.
Thank you for the comment!
Aerith sharing her legacy with Cloud by giving him Holy 2x. In Traces of Two Past, she is surprised when Tifa asks her who she is going to pass Holy to. I don't have the text in front of me, but Aerith says something like, "I never thought there may come a time when I'm not the only Cetra." I'm not sure exactly here. All of Aerith's dialog throughout Remake and Rebirth is extremely important. And the scene in Remake where Aerith explains how her materia is special and that it doesn't do anything at all. Before Cloud experiences a future memory and then says, "Bet you just don't know how to use it." and Aerith response, "Could be. It was a gift from my mother." Then fast forward to the church in Rebirth, the dream date where they just embraced and Cloud declared is intention of making new memories with her -> Aerith gives Cloud Holy w/ future memories. Cloud says, "But your mother gave that to you." And Aerith says, "This isn't about me though. It's about saving the world---and you." In the next game, Cloud is going to be making new memories and this is also a clue as to how Zack will cure Cloud when Cloud is rebuilding himself in the Lifestream sequence. Cloud saved Aerith in chapter 14 and his empty hollow recorded it it, therefore she survived in a new world. Part 3 is going to be so much fun. Zack will cure Cloud during the LS sequence by "taking control" and saving himself and Cloud from Hojo. And that will be the a new memory that cures Cloud and wakes him in Terrier world w/ Remake Aerith.
"Will you be in the world that I'm trying to save?" Is meant to be Cloud asking that question on regards to Aerith. I think he will find a way. Endgame fight will be Cloud, Aerith, Sephiroth vs. Jenova fully restored from 2,000 years ago. It's going to one hell of legendary epic final fight.
Hooyah to that possibility! I also strongly believe (and will be discussing in a video to come) that the 'Cloud Remembers' sequence will be radically different in effect, though being similar in execution. Two Sephiroth's, Zack, Cloud, Hojo and Tifa are all in them, and they will be as self aware as everyone on the Dream Date/ Zack-lives worlds. And it's a hyperplane, as seen in the FFVII version; where a consciousness can manifest bodily in more than one location simultaneously, especially if they are transcendent... such as Sephiroth. (I don't know if they two aspects will cross swords, but I very much hope so.)
I resonate with the idea that Full Form Jenova will be a late journey boss, and possibly also a secret boss.
Thank you for the poetic theory and for watching!
I feel for Cloud 😢❤
As do I. :(
Thank you for watching!
I think Cloud will have his own whispers by the finale. The world will be reset, with a new Lifestream at its core.
It hit me when I went through it but now it's really in my face. Seph's end game might not be meteor. If it was why'd consume it then would be my thinking. But meteor is such an important part of FFVII. If Seph ate meteor then are we deprived of meteor?
I imagine that whether Cloud gives Sephiroth the Black Materia or not, meteor will be witnessed in journey's end. Consider that in a Zack-lives world, seen from the Sector 5 church, meteor is impending.
It's just that with increasing unease, I'm not sure meteor is the end game; or simply a means of getting to the end game. Or even no more than a distraction.
Thank you for watching!
@@Edu_Hi_FTW Meteor means destruction and Will to destroy......Actually this Is Jenova's but probably not anymore Sephiroth's ultimate purpouse. A villain can be a villain without being a villain....Ardyn Izunya can teach us something about this...
Seph's plan to use Meteor in OG came with the revelation that he would need a colossal amount of spiritual energy to do it, specifically saying he needs to find the Promised Land. In that scene, Jenova/Seph appears and claims that he has done so, as well as traveling the lifestream and absorbing the knowledge of the ancients, as well as those after the ancients were "extinct." I think this is Jenova, because this Seph doesn't flinch at being called a non-Ancient by Aerith. Ore Seph still believes he is an ancient.
Stabbing Tseng did not result in a rainbow, and neither did stabbing Barret. These are Jenova wearing Seph's body on numbered clones, not Seph. The Ultimania clarifies that most of the Sephs in Remake's scenes are *not* Sephiroth.
Aerith is still looking for the real Cloud. I think she means the part of him, either a fragment or his Omni, having his memories of his mom and Zack. There is some modus operandi about Jenova erasing memories of who's special to him.
I have a logical guess about Beagle Aerith going to the capital the same way as OG. In Remake, we already knew the whispers stole enough of her Omni memories for her to comment about losing the path she had. In other words, the whispers reverted this fragment of Aerith to OG Aerith, making her follow the same fate as OG Aerith. Notice she would've followed the same fate without Holy unless Omni Aerith got Corki Aerith to pass the football. Where would Beagle Aerith have gone without Holy after the temple? Nowhere. She would've felt DOOMED, and in this psychic battlefield, that is what ends your world, what makes you Jenova's food. I can't believe I'm just now noticing this. Or MAYBE, it's just like you're saying: Seph planned to consume her doomed soul fragment himself. It would explain why he did nothing about Holy: the Beagle whispers already reverted Holy, because Beagle is a world having no Holy, but his whispers don't regulate Beagle to match the recurring OG dream. His whispers only banish people to other worlds, I guess?
Excellent observations about the whispers working together against Cloud, him controlling Seph's whispers to go to Aerith, and the rainbow when Aerith got Holy. This has been a feast of entertainment and revelation. That rainbow seems related to Lucid awareness, where you know you're in a dream and can take control with just thought and willpower. Maybe since these are soul fragments and not the whole soul, they can't take as much control, just like how they can't think as clearly. Have you noticed that? Sometimes they seem sleepyheaded, not alert.
"Doom awaiting at an altar."
That's what I was thinking the entire time. Seph was outside shooting his mouth off, and I'm like, he's really going to die. It's a death flag. Villains give monologues right before the hero slays them. Seph is trapped in a recurring dream, one now full of Doom references, unaware of them, and now he's dropping his death flag. When Aerith survived, I concluded that Seph saved himself from Doomguy by unmurdering the protagonist...pure epic genius. Like, how do you play cat and mouse with Doomguy? By unbecoming a villain.
On how Zack survived, it's always possible Zack's conclusion about the wind is a red herring, like anything else. But the scene shows a bullet being pushed by wind, a whisper, away from him. Terrier is shown in Remake prior to the battle with the Harbinger. The world already existed. So no, Cloud didn't save Zack. Maybe Terrier merging with Beagle is what caused Marlene and Biggs and Zack to cross over, memory intact. This is the only clear outcome of the Harbinger's defeat: Reunion of Terrier with Beagle. Because the whispers surrounded Shinra tower as the party fled Midgar, then expanded into the dome when Sephiroth appeared in front of them, it seems Jenova manipulated them with a plan in mind. My first guess is this prepared Terrier for Reunion, with the local soul fragments being like a beacon for their counterparts in Terrier, who notably are also in a dome. By concentrating so many doomed souls in one location, the Cetra mind prison was broken just a little. Notice Seph enjoys the whispers' screaming and calls it "Destiny is coming", and then a Reunion happens.
Keep digging! We are on a roll again!
Thank you for the intrepid incites as always!
A humble observation I made about the Barrett being stabbed (and everyone almost dying on the express way due to a crashing helicopter); we didn't see the rainbow effect because singularity hadn't come and collapsed yet. The first instance of rainbow effect we get in Remake is right at the end when Sephiroth sends Cloud to the Edge of Creation.
Thank you again for the food for thought, and for watching!
@@dreamphoenix When you point out that Seph took no action about Holy in the Sleeping Forest...can we even prove the negative? We may as well ask why Corki Aerith pushed Cloud through a portal instead of letting him fight Seph right there. Or why didn't she flee with him? Or why Red didnt fly the chopper?
"When you are trapped in a horror movie, you make terrible choices." -- a joke from an old commercial.
See, this is an example of the "sleepyheadedness" I mentioned. It's hard to pinpoint, because it's so subtle that its indistinguishable from a forgetful Nomura.
@@Drw-id-Kirin Some great questions and lines of reasoning, thank you! 🙏
George Lucas once responded to the question about why Stormtroopers have such poor aim: ~ "If they didn't shoot from the hip, and could actually hit something, Star Wars would have been a whole lot shorter. And the Empire wins." :)
I'm wondering now after watching this, if the Sephiroth that entered the church after Aerith pushes Cloud into the portal, was actually there to kill her. What if he is actually a good Sephiroth? I don't really subscribe to this theory but I do find it interesting.
I've seen this theory explored, and it is intriguing! Hopefully some sort of light is cast upon it at journey's end.
Thank you for watching and for the comment!
Actually,we have Sephiroth playing 4D chess against... Sephiroth.Because,as you cleared very well,since the devs stated that there's s none and nothing stronger than Sephiroth,of course Just Sephiroth can destroys Sephiroth.....The clue Will understand how and what goal Is going to achieve Sephiroth doing this once and for all
It'll be very interesting to see how these two aspects of Sephiroth continue to co-exist as Reunion forces worlds together. Sephiroth vs. Sephiroth would been a fantastical exchange of violet wit and sword!
Thank you for watching and for the comment!