The MCU Could Learn A LOT From The Incredibles
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- Опубликовано: 21 мар 2024
- The Incredibles is undeniably one of Pixar’s best films. It also holds the distinction of being one of the greatest superhero movies ever produced. In a world where the superhero landscape is now dominated by the MCU and DCEU, it's hard to distinguish what came before the tidal wave of superhero content. In an era where both the Marvel and DC Cinematic Universes are struggling, perhaps it's time to take a look back at what made The Incredibles work so well for Pixar. Can anything be taken from the Incredibles franchise that could help get the DCU and MCU out of this rut?
#theincredibles #mcu #marvel #nerdstalgic 
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honestly i forgot the Incredibles was a superhero movie because it was much more than that and that is something almost all marvel movies don't have for themselves
If you actually pay attention to the characters in The Incredibles you'll notice it isnt actually a superhero movie, its a movie about a family that happens to have super powers, a subtle but important difference.
@@pjirpI came to hate. Then I read your comment. Very well put
I'm sure a lot of people just plain forgot them. I remember there was a time when I truly despised the Incredibles, because I viewed them as knockoff excuses for superheroes. I had always believed that they were just a flash in the pan, that the world would forget about them, eventually. And I wasn't wrong, the world _did_ forget about them. And after a few years, and a shitton of lousy Pixar films, I started to see the bigger picture: the Incredibles needed to return. I used to loathe them, for being copy and paste versions of real superheroes, but after the garbage Pixar's been putting out, over the last few years. I'd honestly welcome their return.
"I cant lose you. Not again. I'm not strong enough".
That line sold me...I don't purchase many movies, but I decided to based on that line alone.
MCU needs to unapologetically focus on this. Don't bring back Iron Man. He found his strength and was alright with dying. Cap finally got that dance with his best gal. Don't ever take that away from him.
Anyone get the sense that The Incredibles was Watchmen for kids. Retired superheros, evil conspiracy to kill them off, tons of personal drama - it’s all there, minus the alien squid.
I read Watchmen before the film came out and felt the same way. It made me excited for that movie, but then I just realized I was excited to watch The incredibles again.
Technically, not a squid, but close enough.
Actually I feel like the Incredibles is an adult movie not a kids movie. I watched it as a kid when it came out and rewatched it just a few weeks ago. The movie has so many adult struggles in it that I atleast felt more connected with it now as an adult.
@@ThatJohnKillion1970 Oh, I forgot the entire point of the story was defining what appears at the end. I've always called it a "thing" but now I realize some people might be offended.
It is not "for kids" it is kid friendly, but believe me when I tell you that a kid will never understand the struggle of being on a normal job after their days of glory and the insecurities of a falling appart marriage.
One of the best things about the Incredibles that I haven’t seen really in a marvel movie yet is the villain is actually threatening…… that and his end goal is actually somewhat unique.
I'd like to note something. The Avengers did have really clearly defined roles and I did enjoy that, and a look at the family dynamic of the GOTG. However, I don't feel like the Black Widow family has a bad dynamic. They were one of the most interesting parts of the film with how they interacted.
Agreed.
I also think the single biggest issue with the movie was when it was released, relative to the story that had already been told. If it was released as the first film after Civil War, it had enough else going for it that it could have been solidly A tier among the MCU offerings, especially if you get the Russos to do it and give it a sort of spy movie flair like they did with Winter Soldier.
But once we knew the end of her story, all the stakes were taken out of the movie before we see the first title card for the only character most of the audience will have any connection with.
@@chloemchll3774 so true. That film was a victim of timing. It really, really would have been so much better released AS IS just years earlier. Unfortunately they were trying to cash in on something they "forgot to do" back in phase 2 or even early phase 3.
@@chloemchll3774Bingo, the timing itself hurt the film more than anything else. If it had been released a phase or even a couple years earlier, we'd likely would have enjoyed Black Widow much more. Movie definitely isn't perfect, but there was a lot of good elements sprinkled throughout, especiallyyyyy Florence Pugh's performance.
@@DIAC1987I couldn't agree more. Florence Pugh and Scarlett Johansson were a fantastic pairing and I hope they do more movies together in the future.
@@ABurntMuffin They didn't forget to do Black Widow. The Disney exec made that wretched comment about female-led (or "Miss Leading" for us fans of *Pitch Meeting* 🤣😅🤗🥰) movies not selling well, so they screwed over the fans AND Scarlett Johansson by burying it until Eisner came back as CEO and greenlit it. Black Widow is one of my favorite characters and her movie would have been Amazing if it had come out after *Civil War.*
I would agrue one point about Caps uniform in The Winter Solider. He's working for SHIELD, so it would be a logical assumption that they provided him with the uniform he was wearing, and it was designed to be stealthier than his normal Red White and Blue suit, you see Cap revert back to the normal style after that film because he's no longer working for SHIELD (until after Civil War where he drops the Red White & Blue in place of the more monotone style due to his lack of belief in America and the US Government at that point)
Yeah, it made a lot of sense and had meaning, plus it fits with the overall tone of the movie.
Honestly feels like that part went over their heads or they completely ignored that fact to make the criticism. Especially when you realize their "if you take away Cap's shield and helmet" critique doesn't work due to the fact that Cap's uniform still head that iconic star on his chest; that gives off the impression it's still a Captain America suit, albeit a militarized one.
Fun Fact: Jason Lee (Syndrome) recorded his lines in four days, while Craig T. Nelson (Mr. Incredible) recorded his lines over the span of two years.
doesn't matter much tbh i watched both in original and dubbed in my own language both express pretty well as long as text is good
This is why his voice is iconic.
The Incredibles was written in a time when movie writing was more risky. Now everything goes through an algorithm to please everybody and ends up failing because it's flat. Evidenced by The Incredibles 2
The Incredibles is still the best superhero movie ever made. Bird innovated with not only the story of The Incredibles, but also the technology. Violet's hair was a real struggle for Pixar to animate and was causing complaining until Bird said, "Then what's the f--ing point!" Every detail of every character was important to who they are and what they brought to the story. I'm hoping Brad Bird still has one more masterpiece left in him with Ray Gunn, which he came up with the idea for way back in the 90s.
I thought Shang Chi did a fine job illustrating how a grieving father deteriorated his family.
I agree. It failed miserably at the end with the terrible CGI, and fake battle turned redemption arc, but was still an excellent story with top notch action. The third act may have been typical, but the rest of the story was engaging in a way the MCU had stopped doing.
The winter soldier is actually a terrible example. Winter soldier is one of the more stylistically driven MCU movies, it’s absolutely oozing with old spy thriller vibes. The suit, (which is also a suit ripped directly from comics) works perfectly as it fits that aesthetic and symbolizes Cap’s fear that he is becoming more of a weapon for shield and less of an independent hero, setting up the entire conflict of the movie (at the end of which he literally reclaimed his old uniform to battle against the government agency that had stripped him of his identity). There are plenty of MCU movies that are creatively bankrupt and lack a distinct style, I don’t know why they chose winter soldier when it’s largely considered to be one of the most artfully shot and conceptually distinctive pieces of the MCU.
Yea I agree idk the vid just all over the place and tired of him just having to make a vid bashing marvel every month
@@mamadoubarrie6607 Agree with both of you.
shoutout to edna mode, a real G
Daaaaaaaaarling... NO CAPES!
Buddy, caps uniform in winter soldier is straight out of the comics
A bleak navy military garb? Yeah I don’t think so
@@unown9639it is! It’s his Agent of Shield Costume.
@@TheDeadmanDaveDirector* of SHIELD wasn’t it? But yeah, still. Other than a few tweaks and changes by the costume dept it 100% is straight out of the comics.
(Also, greetings fellow Dave, we missed you at last week’s meeting 😅)
I totally get what he was trying to say. But winter soldier was the wrong call out to make the point
@@TheDeadmanDaveI thought his Winter Soldier/Stealth suit was reminiscent of the Commander Rogers look
I think the biggest difference is that you're far less likely to get audience fatigue with a series with 2 movies than with 30. If there had been 5 Incredibles movies, that series would be struggling too.
To be honest, the second Incredibles film was just meh. It was basically a rehash of the first film except mom went superheroing and dad didn’t.
Nerdstalgic: The movie is BOLD and STYLIZED
The movie: THICCC MOMMY
Ant man does NOT joke the way other characters do. The concept of a character providing comedic relief? Yea that's old by the time you get to ant man...but his personality is actually well defined and unique enough in the MCU. Look toward post endgame characters for the real copy and paste.
The Incredibles is pretty much a Fantastic Four movie done right. Here's hoping the upcoming 2025 F4 film learns something from this.
In their mind they think they ARE making something visually unique. And their characters are being expressed well. Something I think they skipped over completely as you mentioned though, was sensible flaws for each character. They struggle with the most right now, they just make each character quippy, and give them cool powers and think that will be enough to make the audience like them. Instead of interesting internal, and personal turmoil. It's always just the world is ending and this hero is going to stop it this time
Agree with a lot of the issues outlined in this video and with the formulaification of the MCU superhero, but in Marvel's defense I think the homogenization to the quippy superhero is a common superhero trope, and I think was a differentiator from DC's overly-serious take on superhero movies (which at its best gave us the Nolan Batman trilogy, but more often than not just winds up mediocre and joyless). I think the biggest issue is pressure to produce too much volume, oversaturating the market with much more content than the storytelling can compellingly support.
Infinity Saga movies were movies first, tie-ins-to-a-larger-story second. The movies were great, and the tie-in aspect was great. Multiverse Saga movies are tie-ins first and movies second. This makes the movies not strong, and therefore the tie-in aspect, which doesn't have strong movies to tie in, is not that great. It only works in one direction. The same happened with The Mandolorian. When it was a stand-alone story within the larger Star Wars universe but not tied in too tightly, it was solid and therefore enjoyable. When the connection to the larger universe surpassed in importance to the stand-alone nature of the show, it fell apart (in my opinion).
I love The Incredibles the one thing I wish they would have changed was instead of the little kid in the driveway saying something amazing he should have said something incredible 🔴⚫
I agree that the MCU needs to be more visually inventive, but I also think there should be a purpose behind the visuals, not just random garbage being thrown at the audience. Better writing on the other hand is something the MCU desperately needs
GOTG are the most thematic characters in the MCU.
Caps Winter Soldier Stealth Suit was comic accurate - and he switched back to the Red White And Blue in the 3rd act
Lesson?
NO CAPES!!!
It hindsight it was madness WandaVision, Falcon & Winter Soldier, and Loki was regulated to streaming while Ant Man, Eternals and Shang-Chi got solo films.
Your videos are consistently continuously amazing. You make the best videos talking about movies and TV shows and everything in entertainment on RUclips. I am shocked that you don't have tens of millions of subscribers. You are extremely insightful, your videos are very entertaining, and overall it's just a joy to watch. Keep it up with everything amazing that you do!
Agreed w/you. Good review.
He pays people to read their scripts. All he does is Voice over
Edna Mode is such a novel concept. The idea of these spandex suits all being created by an egotistical designer is such a great idea. But even back when Incredibles released, stuff like the X-Men movies were actively trying to move away from spandex. Nowadays, any costume in these superhero movies is either just some high-tech armor or isn’t mentioned at all (with the exception being what they did with the first Cap America where it’s his cheesy show costume). It makes them seem antiquated in response to the Incredibles actively going “hey you know actually, where would the costumes come from?”
I hope they commit to this approach regarding the debut of the Fantastic Four and the X-men in the MCU and honestly give said characters their voice in a sea of other heroes. Especially since the family dynamic of The Incredibles was heavily inspired by the Fantastic Four 60's comics, that '60s vibe/aesthetic, as well as that wholesome group dynamic, should be emphasised in the MCU while balancing an overarching plot that shows how interesting the Fantastic Four truly is and how special their dynamic is. The same goes for how Marvel eventually handles the X-men when they debut in the long-term future.
I think the general consensus is that we want an Incredibles 3. Personally, I kinda want to see an Incredibles TV show. Part superhero show, part family sitcom.
Too much of a good thing can still be bad.
The second movie made me not wanting a third film.
@@zsoltbartus169 Yeah, it's the same with the Netflix Avatar at the moment. Some things are better left untouched, because everything what comes after it will be worse than the first film/series/adaptation
@Lolkop555 well I'm not the biggest fan of live-action adaptations. There are things you can do in animation that can't be replicated live.
@@Lolkop555 todays standard makes every "adaptation" worse than supposed to and should be.
Twenty years ago many project and adaptation turned out to be awesome because their number one goal was to entertain and tell a good story, and whe they didn't it was budget issue and other restriction and not the lack of passion or respect towards the project and its source material.
Now the number one goal of most of the projects is NOT that.
Funny how the Director/Writer Brad Bird once claimed he never read comic books at all, yet this feels like the "Fantastic Four" movie we always wanted! 😄
Well, good thing there's a Fantastic 4 movie coming down the line. Some think the Incredibles were influenced by that comic, so it might be only fitting that they borrow back from the Incredibles. The FF had powers based on their personalities, and with the exception of Dash, the Incredibles have similar power sets, but jumbled around.
Mr Incredible = The Thing (Strength and Invulnerablity)
Elistigirl = Mr. Fantastic (Stretching powers)
Violet = Invisible Woman (Invisibility and force fields)
Jack-Jack = Human Torch (Fire)
Who’s dash?
So in other words, the TRUE ways of saving the MCU and Marvel Studios are Ignore Disney and those haters and grifters and embrace the more outlandish comic-accurate atmosphere. I'd pay to see that as a Marvel, Comic Book and Superhero Fan.
The Incredibles is the greatest Superhero and Pixar film end of story
well dark knight is probably the best superhero movie but yeah it is the best pixar film
Shoutout to "Megamind" for being a brilliantly subversive spin on the superhero movie: what if the "supervillian" was only being the villain because he never realized he could choose to be something else?
@@zenkim6709 true that movie slaps and they had a lot of potential to build upon the excellent foundation they had there, it's a shame that when they did they created the biggest disappointment of the year so far.
Nah, The Dark Knight is the greatest superhero movie, and Wall-E the best Pixar
@@robwebster1098 Spider-Man 2 and Ratatouille though. Or Logan and Toy Story 2.
I think the upcoming MCU Fantastic Four Movie should be the one to learn from The Incredibles the most since both The Fantastic Four and The Incredibles are Superhero Families.
If I ever make a list of best superhero movies ever, Incredibles is definitely going on it 😊
Apart from Shang-Chi the Marvel films for me have been disappointing since End Game so yes they could lean a lot about story telling from The Incredible, which is one of the best superhero films, but they shouldn't have to, I don't get how these companies with decades worth of great comic book stories and characters which they could use for inspiration can't come up with a half decent story.
I’ve said this for a long time, The Incredibles is my favorite superhero movie by quite a bit. Admittedly, I have a lot of superhero movies that I haven’t seen yet, but this one is definitely my favorite
Man I just need a video game set in the same art style as the Incredibles because it is literally the best part of the 2nd movie and one of the factors contributing to why I love the first one so much
Loved this video
Jonny quest was awesome to me growing up, made me appreciate Venture brothers... You should talk about that show
"Me too kid, me too...."
Marvel's problem is they try to make everybody RDJ , but there's only 1 him and he's that. Rob was in words acting like the rent's due. Also forgotten it was a two part collaboration, with John Faverou and without the writer/actor/director/producer letting RDJ go tf off like he did adlibbing, you gotta have acertain type foresight/eye for talent. Bro even went to bat for RDJ to get him on the movie to begin with, because Marvel felt Rob was flight risk. So they literally shaped the superhero/nerd culture we enjoy today the good the bad the alternative like the Boys and Invincible, even some aspects the Indy joints wouldnt be here without 2007's Ironman. That being said Marvel you cant continue trying to do what they did/ride the wave of, have to restart the process, youre gonna have to reinvent the wheel, some many ways you can do a superhero story and yet Marvel is stuck in one mode, even though we had Chronicle and Code8, etc. Just do better
When you brought up the line " when everyone's super, noone is" I though you will be talking about how crowded the MCU is, how it lacks the civilians, the normal people the heroes supposed to save. And then you kinda had me at the topic of constant jokes by literally every and any character.
Then you proceeded to praise ragnarok for its (undeniably great) visuals while ignoring it's absolute ridiculous low-quality "humor".
And you totally lost me when suggesting that the MCU's might be biggest flaws is the flat and repetitive, noncreative visuals. Even with the horrible level of rushed, abused and overused VFX-artists, the effects except a few aspect like the "hand-beams" is pretty creative enough: Eternals and Shang-Chi or GotG - which deserves every amount of praise - thankfully their different set of characters and style is pretty different, and both look way different from a lot of other MCU-work.
.
The writing of characters, the simple foundation of what makes the superhero, the lives, the civilians, the heroism, the storytelling... these are the aspects that MCU needs to fix on their works, because these what needs fixing. An MCU movie might still be bad with tons of comic-originated set design inspired by Kirby, if the story is badly written, the characters are badly handled and the VFX is rushed.
Yeah good call on the Incredibles movie.... still stands up as an awesome superhero movie (without primarily being a superhero movie)
Cap's winter soldier costume is more a nod to his "Ultimates" variant. So much of the early MCU was a mash-up of Ultimate/616 universes. I like this video but it seems to neglect how much existing material MCU was trying to incorporate in the beginning. It's easy to forget that in the beginning our favorite part of the MCU is that they didn't assume existing fans wouldn't show up or new fans wouldn't "get it" They respected the properties they had and hoped it would translate.
MCU needs to be natural, everything worked out because it was natural, it was like everything was different and all felt connected as one, now everything looks the same, feels similar, but just different in name, it will take a long time for it is to get back
How many videos of ‘Marvel needs to change this’ do we need?
You can tell when more views are needed, the MCU is in trouble videos start flaring up.
The get the clicks.
Literally rewatch incredibles last night 😂 still in shock that movies use to be good
"How are we going to take the incredibles seriously if is a an animated movie from a studio that makes things for children?" - corporate bosses, most likely...
Brad Bird should direct STAR TREK
Or maybe Superman or Star Wars
@@carbootstudios2459no no no Dave should direct starwars only Dave really gets the characters as much s as their creator
@@slayr4170
Dave?
@@carbootstudios2459 Dave Fioani I misspelled his name but the man who made clone wars
@@slayr4170 I could see him being in charge of screenwriting at least
The Incredibles might just be the best Fantastic Four film we have yet.
How to keep a consistent to tone.
Anything that resembles the incredibles will be good and we have examples like The Avengers, Infinity War, Endgame, Xmen 97, Loki and so on.
The fact that this movie actually addressed collateral damage made this way better than it had to be. And why I didn't like civil war. I was more invested in zemo in regards to plot cause the accords meant nothing. The ultimate alliance 2 game did civil war way better.
What I hate the most about modern superhero movies is how the characters are portrayed as rockstars
They want us, the audience, to love the characters the same way the people in their world love them
It just feels forced
I think one of the reasons why Marvel feels exhausted at this point is that they're trying to bring a lot of the Comic characters into film, and making each and every one of them different and unique is close to impossible. The original six worked great because there was only six heroes to give personality and background to, but since then we've gotten so many characters that making them all different's gotta be hard.
This makes me want to rewatch the Incredibles
I agree with everything except the The Winter Soldier slander
What i am hearing which i totally agree is: be different, make diverse character, and take more inspiration from comics even if it is corny.
One acronym summarizes the entire problem with Marvel: D&I
Did anyone get to watch _The Incredibles_ on the big screen last autumn as part of Disney 100?
Did the parents name him Dash cause they knew he has super speed or did the just get lucky in naming him? Still keeps me up at night
It could be a nickname.
Hey, mister! "CA: Winter soldier" was absolutely perfect. Like, the best Jason Bourne movie in the middle of MCU, nailing every single aspect of this genre. You can blame any other MCU movie but this.
Superhero movies need to try different genres. Not ever superhero movie needs to be an action comedy. We can have Superhero movies that are Horror movies, drama movies, ect. There’s not such thing as Superhero fatigue. It’s bad movie fatigue
Agreed. Thor started out Shakespearean.
We already have this
pretty sure F4 is gonna be the live action version if the Incredibles.
They tried to make every single movie they released some kind of major pop culture moment and if every movie you release is a major pop culture moment then none of them are major pop culture moments
Sadly the MCU is just not the same anymore. Too many loose threads (Harry Style anyone?), oversaturation of content and no big team-up in Phase 4 dampened the excitement. Learning there won't be an Avengers until Phase 6 just made me lose interest.
Love the incredibles!
summary of this video: incredibles is cool and marvel sucks now
Voldemort: _(chuckles)_ They never learn.
The incredible is masterpiece i really Loved watching as a kid
what i got out of this is "we need a brad bird marvel movie" and i'm 1000% down for that
Ugh, The Incredibles might be my favourite Pixar film ever. As a child who grew up with Toy Story as an introduction to Pixar supremacy, its hard to beat their level of execution when it comes to child and adult appropriate storytelling.
THAT WAS TOTALLY WICKED
I really need to rewatch the Incredibles, and then finally see the sequel
On one hand, I really want them to make The Incredibles 3 (and I'm still waiting for) but on the other hand, I absolutely don't want them to make The Incredibles 3 considering the track record of anything Disney-related stuffs in last couple years (just look at Star Wars Acolyte trailer as a recent example)
Fun fact: Brad bird also directed a good but not superhero movie which is the iron giant, he’s such a talented director
The MCU and DCU need to make sure they don't listen to Nerdstalgic.
The MCU should try Diet Pills
I want mockumentary MC film, I'd actually watch that. Let Greg Daniels and Micheal Schur do a film 😂
Quite a pity that the sequel was so very disappointing!
And Sammy J is in both!
The MCU could learn A LOT from _The Incredibles_ and also from _X-Men '97._
X-Men97 is the GOAT
Its an issue with modern writers, its why you didnt mention Incredibles 2 at all
And that is why The Incredibles is one of my favorite movies of all time... if not my #1. :)
The argument could be made that Winter Soldier was more of a political thriller that also had super heroes, and for me that's why I loved it.
Was too tall desk a fever dream? I cant find an ounce of it's existence.
That little in the end, yeah thats pretty much the state of every single one of Marvel fans.
It’s just an incredibly well made movie, bottom line. The script is great, the composition is great. The characterization is fantastic
Don't forget how 'The Incredibles' also managed to skirt "sequel-itis" as well. ; )
It's family dynamics movie who just happens to have superpowers
The Incredibles. A masterpiece. Same with The Shawshank Redemption.
Brad Bird should've been hired to direct the new Fantastic Four reboot. In many ways, The Incredibles WAS a Fantastic Four movie.
A very strange video this. Comparing 4 characters and 1 movie to 30+ films and near 100s of characters seems silly. Also there was no issue with phase 1-3 that was bad enough to draw heavy criticism. There was nothing wrong with caps suit in winter soldier. Ant Man once you get to his movie is pretty well defined. Doesn’t feel like a lot of effort or thought went into this.
In short: What do good superhero movies need? Humanity.
I watched the original incredibles 2 nights ago and it’s still amazing. So good. Insane. Second movie? Garbage.
Brad bird must direct the fantastic four
This just reminds me how good Incredibles 1 and Infinity Saga MCU was. The RDJ Quip syndrome is heavy with every character and it’s like the writers don’t care anymore. They’re trying to mask over doing the hard work of writing a creative, compelling story with unnecessary diversity (I’m a 28yo black man).
The MCU ran outta good ideas and lead into DEI and started using that as their crutch when people were upset. No, tell good stories that people want to watch. Groot was a goddamn walking talking tree that said one word but he had more passion and charisma than the entire cast of the Eternals…..
7:49 fin.
Wandavision was a fantastic breath of fresh air up until the finale