The Unfortunate Problem With Marvel TV Shows
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- Опубликовано: 21 ноя 2023
- Have audiences just about had enough of Marvel Studios attempt at television series? The MCU's attempt at extending the Marvel brand to Disney + has been everything but successful. With the recent WGA and SAG strikes coming to a close, it seems Marvel is starting to revamp how it produces TV, but will it be enough to bring Marvel fans back into the fold? Or will the Marvel Cinematic Universe keep pushing forward with the same format?
#marvel #marvelcinematicuniverse #mcu #nerdstalgic
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Mentioning Loki and Secret Invasion in the same sentence is blasphemous! I could stare at an image of Loki's set for hours and be more entertained than watching 2 minutes of Secret Invasion.
Don’t compare Loki to secret invasion💀
Both of you need to repent RIGHT NOW.
Well I didn't care for secret invasion but Loki was a must watch!
Forreal, I hate how he lumped in Loki with everything else.
@@voicedbird But season 2 is actually quite not as well written as the first one. The last episode was cool even though his "sacrifice" ain't really a sacrifice if you really think about it.
The problem is they're writing them like longer movies. Not like tv dramas
They would suck if they were movies aswell
Indeed. Moon Knight was the one that convinced me how most of these felt like movies disguised as tv shows. Kinda jarring that they went into this direction when Agents of SHIELD and the Marvel Netflix series existed. It's unbelievable.
I mean this comment was posted 2 mins after the video. And this was part of the videos point of how the shows were created and how they'll be fixed in the future
I agree
Loki, WandaVision and yes even She-Hulk are the only ones that feel like shows and not movies.
Loki & Moon Knight are pretty much the only two I’ve enjoyed so far. Still need to watch the newest season
season 2 is great
Moon knight is pretty overrated, aside his origin epsiode it’s very by the numbers and corny
I enjoyed Loki (both seasons), Moon Knight and Wanda Vision. They're not *all* bad.
Yeah some been amazinh
Moon knight is utter dogshit
Wanda vision's ending 🤮 but first few eps were pretty good
@@sammybosak10 Loki really nailed the landing though. Apparently, it was originally supposed to end differently, with him ruling over the TVA from Kang's throne, having fixed the loom and being able to remain with his new friends, but it just wasn't sitting right with everyone. I'm glad, because that wouldn't have been nearly as satisfying or fitting for the character. He really had to embody what "burdened with glorious purpose" really means.
Idk these 3 show were mid af
Loki and Moonknight were phenomenal in my opinion. They cant be put in the same category as the other shows
Yeah they can
'phenomenal' lmao . They are okay at best .
Loki maybe is ok, moonknight is a boring joke.
I respect your opinion, but I was frankly very let down with Moon Knight. Loki is good though
True~~
Since Endgame, particularly in Phase 4, the storytelling direction seems more scattered. In Phases 1-3, newly introduced characters had a swift return, such as Rhodey, Nick Fury, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Falcon, etc. Now, it appears that characters are introduced without a clear narrative purpose, contributing to a sense of quantity over meaningful integration into the universe.
I'd been perfectly ok with mini-arcs, one for the street level / International heroes, another for the cosmic ones and then a Multiverse one that begins to bleed into the other two...
But not only there is nothing building-up, a lot has been introduced that might not even cameo anywhere, like, it could've been rad if The Marvels concluded the cliff-hangers of Eternals, Shang-Chi and Ms. Marvel, but nope, who knows when will Shang-Chi ever show up again...
Exactly what I’ve been thinking, just couldn’t quite put it into words. Thank you
Correction, Since Far From Home particularly in Phase 4, the storytelling direction seems more scattered. In Phases 1-3, newly introduced characters had a swift return, such as Rhodey, Nick Fury, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Falcon, etc. Now, it appears that characters are introduced without a clear narrative purpose, contributing to a sense of quantity over meaningful integration into the universe.
That's because they stopped caring about the stories. They care more about shoehorning "diversity and inclusion" than about telling good stories. Their main objective is to have queer, female, disabled, and minority representation. Once they achieve their objective through casting, they perceive their job as complete. At that point, the story is irrelevant in their minds. They can now issue press releases and do endless interviews about how they have the first black female directed superhero movie starring all women and two minorities. They soak up all the social justice points and put ZERO consideration into making the project entertaining. It is possible to do both, but Disney thinks so little of the audience they're pandering to that they won't waste their time with making something good. They have zero respect for the true fans of the characters that made them billions of dollars in phases 1-4, and they know the people they're appealing to with the diversity stuff don't actually know anything about or care about the characters so the story doesn't matter to them. They could make a movie starring a person of every race, gender, and sexual preference and if the story was good and the visuals were fun, nobody would complain. It's like they're creating a character in a video game and only have 100 attribute points to use. They put 99 points into diversity and inclusion and 1 point into storytelling.
I really enjoyed Moonknight, mostly. The big CGI battle at the end was a bit much, but over all it is top of my list of Marvel shows. Second only to Loki. Loki (both seasons) are some of the the best things Marvel has put out since End Game.
I was enjoying Moon Knight and Shang-Chi until they suddenly went for the Videogamey Final Boss Fight at the end for no real reason, the latter in particular felt like a copt-out from the very conflict set at the beginning, just... why did they ruin it like that?
@@michaelriverside1139 I can understand why they went that route with Shang-Chi, because it is a Marvel movie after all and they have to have some big climactic finish. I personally would have preferred if the final battle had been between Shang-Chi and Wenwu, like I'm assuming you are as well. They could have even given him the sad final moments where he reconciles with his son, but the end of his arc seemed kinda rushed. Maybe they just thought it wouldn't hold the audience's attention long enough to pay of what was set up *since the very start of the movie* 🤷
*overall
*Endgame.
@@michaelriverside1139 yeah like, what's next? were they planning to give dd an infinity gauntlet and make him fight one above all
I wasn't expecting to but Moon knight somehow ended up being really cool. Yer, same problems, same enjoyment
Moonknight was actually one of the few enjoyable things to watch within the MCU in the last couple years. It's nice not having to remember 15 years of movies to keep up with one season of a show
I agree, Personally I think Moonknight was a pretty good show, I'd look forward to a season 2 if it was coherent as Season 1 and expanded on the characters
What? It was by far the most boring show I ever seen in my entire life… and that’s saying something.
@@DOC_951 dude, did you glitch past Secret Invasion, She hulk and Ms Marvel?
Agreed. It was cohesive and standalone, two things most of the other shows weren't. It was also spectacularly well acted. It had some issues, sure, but overall it was the exactly the kind of thing they need to be doing more of.
The problem with moon knight is… Its not really a moon knight show. A couple references to the comics but none of the characters act like they do in the comics, ESPECIALLY Steven, Mr Knight, Jake and Moon Knight himself
I don’t think they were all bad.
Loki and Wandavision I felt were good.
The masturbatory first two episodes of Wandavision ruined the whole series. So unbearably boring and completely unnecessary. I'm sure boomers really enjoyed it but fuck boomers. If it turned out at the end of the series that the first two episodes were relevant in ANY way (other than Agatha being shady, which didn't need two boring episodes to establish) then maybe it wouldn't have been so bad. But nope, after the high of Endgame, we were trolled with the first two episodes of Wandavision. "Lawl, suckers!"
Wandavision? "These people will never know what you have done for them" That Wandavision?!?
@@everythingisawesome2903 no i like the Wandavision based on the time Wanda overcame a doping scandal and won the Tour de France.
Loki was basically the only show worth watching since Endgame. And you really noticed in the last few episodes that Tom Hiddleston and Owen Wilson carried this show HARD.
Moon Knight was pretty good
No it’s not
Idk what you're talking about, Wanda vision was awesome
I actually enjoyed each of WandaVision, Loki, Moon Knight, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and even Ms. Marvel to certain extents. The problem I have with these shows is that they make keeping up with MCU content a chore. I feel like Marvel needs to either give fans long refractory periods between connected shows or make the shows less connected to the MCU overall (ie, use characters who exist in the MCU but don't force fans to have to watch that show to keep up with the greater MCU narrative).
Loki season 2 was boring trash. And moon knight is the worst show I ever sat through…
Moon knight's only problem was not enough moon knight.
Well, that and I would have liked to see the resolution to the final battle. But that's pretty much it.
Not enough Moon Knight, need more Moon Knight.
And Loki.
One of the reasons I love moon knight is how disconnected it is right now.
No other hero shows up for no reason, it doesn't focus on being a sequel or connected to another show or film, and it allows the night shifting scene to work.
I do hope in season 2 of moon knight (if it happens) another hero shows up just to connect the show to the MCU properly. Maybe wong can appear for an episode as the night sky shifting would catch the attention of the sorcerer supreme. Or the punisher could help one episode with whatever's happening.
I just really want season 2 man. Loki was the only other live action show I cared for and it's done so hopefully moon knights next.
Also! Im actually looking forward to echo, I really like hawkeye, but didn't care for the character of echo much. However, the trailer look like a really dark and gripping show. Plus it has kingpin and daredevil, so I'm already on board. (She hulk doesn't count though, it doesn't get any points just because of daredevil.) So high hopes for echo.
I honestly think Moon Knight works because it’s essentially a stand-alone show and as such bringing in characters from other properties (I find) would damage it.
I feel that one of the distinctions Moon Knight also has is that, it's centered in it's world and mythology. Like you said it's not focused on being connected to the MCU proper. It's trying to do it's own thing. I loved the show and think that way too many people hate on it for the few things it did weird or wrong (e.g. off-putting greenscreen and overextended story), without shining a light on all the stuff it did right (e.g. solid special effects, solid representation of Egyptian myth and an overall great comic to screen adaptation). I think that the main issue Moon knight has, is the fact that it's a show, and unlike a movie it's not the kind of experience you want to watch over and over again...
Cheers! Moon Knight was great! It was weird, different, and had great characters. Even that WILD tone shift near the end was interesting.
Have you tried Ms Marvel? I really liked the character development in that show
@@jeffkadlec8264it was ok, but I don't think it was anywhere near the level of Moon Knight or Loki
Loki, Wandavision and Moon Knight were excellent. Let’s not get it twisted
wandavision dropped the ball hard tho by the end imo
@@OzzieStormyeah, but it was still good until the finale
Oh c'mon moonknight was so boring, the first episode is only good one...
Wandavision? "These people will never know what you have done for them" That Wandavision?!?
I’m appalled that these guys never had show runners or creative round tables. No wonder they are an absolute joke when it comes to television. Hopefully they get to where they’re going because these characters deserve a better story.
It shows that feige never really had a clear vision for the universe cause he should have been working on what to do next at least by the start of phase 3 cause that would’ve given him time to get a plan together for where the universe goes after thanos but as we have all seen this is no plan it just a steady stream of character introductions with no idea what to do with the characters going forward cause we haven’t seen the eternals or shang-chi again and people who turned a blind eye to the problems during the infinity saga going back and evaluating the infinity saga with open eyes and are actually seeing the problems a lot of use were saying during that period
Well, if a "show" is a miniseries that's being treated like a long movie, the job of "showrunner" either wouldn't exist or at least would be defined differently.
Loki, being a longer, multi-season program should've had a runner, though.
They're better when they're set within their own universe
That's why LEGION was so good
Loki S1&2 have been incredible and some of the best MCU ever.
Said every shill ever
@@ninjanibba4259 is there anyone who is not?
@@Zach476 people that don’t praise everything with mid to terrible quality, there’s plenty of us
@@ninjanibba4259 Shill as in someone who gives an impartial opinion when they have an interest in spreading their opinion to others.
@@Zach476 that’s a interesting made up definition you have there, especially when they do nothing but lie to themselves and others on things that are clearly objectively bad or clap like seals for things that are basic level or dumb, even going as far to say men are sexists from those women and men to overstate their point, also justifying bad material just cuz it’s popular
That’s what shills do, example: every Disney plus show since WandaVision people praise in the moments of popularity and months later turn against it cuz they was never good in the first place, the talk around the hype is what made them interesting in those moments, but when the plots are broken down, they don’t make any sense
Moon Knight and Loki are the two stand outs of the Disney+ Marvel shows! Ill agree the rest are not great...Scarlet Witch and Marvel are betters than the others in the meh bunch.
Greenlighting more Moon Knight makes things worse?? Bro what? That's a top 5 show from Marvel
If that's a top 5, that's the reason why this video exists 😂
ah nobody saw that series,and that was luck..cuz showing how a pagan god EATEN muslin souls can be considered heresy in Actual EGPYT
Oscar Isaac was excellent in Moon Knight. It wasn't perfect by any means and as with a lot of these shows, the finale left a lot to be desired, but I'd say that it's definitely at the upper end of the Disney Plus shows. I find this revisionism that it was a poor show to be a bit bizarre. It was a really enjoyable watch.
I believe it's more like Ms. Marvel, super flawed shows that fail to live up to their own potential just to cram the MCU formula of "Big CGI Final Battle & a bunch of set-ups", at least Loki mostly avoided that, but it was so dissapointing when Ms. Marvel just abbandoned everything that made Kamala Khan interesting to cram some... forgettable villains and allies by the third episode...
Yes, I'm still bitter about the lack of The Inventor in that series!
Oh, and Moon Knight would've been perfectly fine if it was more focused on the different personalities' conflict with Khonshu over cramming the rest of the egyptian pantheon, Crimson Scarab and Ethan Hawke's character, as well as... another Big Dumb CGI Boss Battle at the end...
Hey, that shot at Moon Knight was uncalled for! 🤬
Moon knight was great. CGI were mew, but it was bonkers 👌
Loki and WandaVision are my favorites of anything Marvel ever made. I think it just depends on who you are and what you like.
Loki was great bro???
I really gotta say, ‘Loki’ is one of the best things Marvel has put out. Ever
This makes a lot of sense. Glad i'm not the only one that saw Loki S2 was just Loki running around and going no where for 6 episodes.
*nowhere
I guess you didn’t watch it
It doesn't mean Loki show was bad, you just enjoy different things. Personally I've re-watched it several times. It's been some time I enjoyed any show so much. Maybe the last one was "The End of Fucking World". I have a thing for weird shows probably. I suppose it's a matter of personal taste.
The last one was good
We are overwhelmed and over worked at Marvel. No story boarding or narrative synopsis. We are asked to pick a comic storyline then news will come out after we have then creative decision will change again, directors will change something, and cycle goes on until edit and post production. My friends at the cinematographer and CG department hate themselves and just put together whatever so they can go home and have peace. It's so disfunctional and stressful that I now hate a place I once loved.
Y'all didn't like Moon Knight!? Bro what?????
What’s to like? It’s a nothing show that affects nothing
Remember that solar system rift that everyone saw? Never brought up or explained, stuff like that makes it seem like the MCU is just doing things without consequences….so why should people care? Especially when they won’t possibly be brought up
@@ninjanibba4259 Saying it's a bad show because you can't see a connection in the moment is wild.
It was an origin story and, they use those six episodes to establish the character, lore and world. I'm not saying it's a perfect show but, it was a compelling and effective story and introduces not only another character but another culture into the cinematic universe and I think that shouldn't go unnoticed.
@@samuelenomanna8403 no dude…just no
@@ninjanibba4259 No, what?
@@samuelenomanna8403 origins stories are fleshed out and it wasn’t, cultures are fleshed out and it wasn’t, it went unnoticed by the characters in the MCU, so it went unnoticed as a whole with no real narrative
Just like no one cares there’s a giant dead celestial hand sticking out on earth, just like no one cares that Super Soldiers were on the scene and almost started a pandemic of destruction, just like no one cared a whole town in Jersey was captured by a known Avenger and that witches were discovered, just like how more Widows were discovered and how that would change the infrastructure of spies, especially when Winter Soldier said the government was watching Natasha and the secrets of a base would have the nations climbing the walls…yet nothing happened, just like how a pocket universe is supposed to look after time itself but even don’t know the rules of how it works, and how the branches are supposed to affect reality but doesn’t do a thing in the MCU structure….I could go on and on
None of these thing seem to matter to the overarching narrative of the MCU, nothing builds to anything and if it is, it’s retconned or rewritten entirely till it’s unrecognizable, phases 1-3 was about the Stones and bringing on Thanos, with characters we followed till the end of the saga….phase 4 and 5 is about nothing but scrambled messes with characters we don’t know or care about and no teamups with a stable leader to keep them in check, the MCU is a total mess and people are not caring anymore about what happens cuz nothing is happening
Totally agreed with you until you bagged on Moon Knight, I definitely really like that show, it wasn't perfect but I would kill for another season of it to help wrap up loose ends. Otherwise stellar video guys!
Loki season 2 was impeccable wdym??? Of all the series you could’ve chosen to pair with secret invasion you choose the only series that actually stands on its own two feet?
Yeah weird!
He meant MOST of the series. Not Loki. Loki is the only good show imo.
Ikr?! Loki and wandavision are the 2 i feel were actually good and thought out. Loki season 2 made lokis character actually have an ark and wandavision made people actually connect with the character emotionally.
It’s 2023, it doesn’t matter what points you make as long as it’s “Marvel bad” = 💰💰💰.
@@BigPurp9yeah he’s saying nonsense
I loved moonlight (and I think it used the TV format well) until the end, just like wandavision. That was great until the end. Loki was great through and through, it even nailed the ending.
It's Moon Knight lmao. Sorry but I just actually burst out laughing so hard.
@@anonme_ hahahaha yeah! I just noticed that the autocorrect trolled me badly on that one! I would have laughed too 😛
No, no, no, no! Loki is very great and I can't watch this video if you're going to put this show through the wringer.
I feel the same with Moon Knight. Like why are they targeting the best and using so many She Hulk clips?
You can still like something even if a RUclipsr you like critiques it.
Tough.
@@MrEnKaye Sure, but a narrative channel usually provides hints and solutions for writers.
S1 was centered on how Loki was not good at anything, he wasn't even the best Loki. Let's see if S2 is better.
I think the main problem with MCU right now is that they've lost focus on characters and started focusing more on spectacle. The thing that made the endgame saga so cool wasn't Thanos itself or the gems, but the fact that we knew all the characters very well, even the baddie. Most of the best films in the first part of MCU were strictly following the story from the character's point of view. Now the films and series just try to look cool or impress with visual effects but their characters feel empty and boring.
I think that they got comfortable with the Midas touch and began to think "if a little is great, more is even greater" because there are plenty of other stories to tell. I also think that the inter-connectivity that made it great in the beginning is harming it in an unexpected way: it is impossible to tell unique/individual stories because viewer assume that every story _must_ be connected somehow, even if that isn't the intention.
The DC Animated Universe has done better in this regard, consistently releasing a new animated movie every few months but with most of them not connected to one another.
Loki and wandavision were absolutely excellent!!
True, you can possibly find 2 gold coins in a pile of sh*t.
@@VictorVonDoomDoommore like copper
stop complaining bro Loki at least was kind of good@@ninjanibba4259
Werewolf by Night has been their best content in years. It was focused and wasnt trying to do anything but tell a story and it was fantastic.
Ive said it for years now. A long running, 18 45-minute episodes a season Spiderman show would be the most watched TV show in history.
Moon Knight is actually my favourite show of the Disney+ era because it is its only thing. disconnected from the MCU makes it enjoyable whereas everything else feels like "if you didn't watch the movie/part 1/the OG to this spin off, you're lost"
Yes!!!
Bruh the arm cgi gets me everytime lol
I feel Gravik would've been a more compelling antagonist if he devoutly held to his "Never break a promise" principle, even when doing so was detrimental to his own strategic objectives.
I also believe they need to get back to the heart of makes superheroes compelling. These recent stories have largely been missing that uniquely heroic and aspirational charm of the older ones.
The shows and movies have been written with politics in mind, not with story. Disney's writers have to return to the drawing board and work on their attitude towards entertainment. We like to watch a movie, not a political dissertation.
@@Mediados Media with political messages is capable of working, but it fails badly when the delivery of the message is hamfisted
@@EvdogMusic Politics must not be the main drive. Because if it is, then the politics become more important than the story. The story always comes first and it is very obvious when it doesn't.
I liked Moonknight! I hope we get more. It was definitely the best tv show after Loki
Besides Wandavision and Loki, Moon Knight was actually pretty decent show.
Just sucks we may not get a Season 2. Oscar Isaac deserves better.
The formula for marvel shows is a talented and loved lead actor.. and often expressionless and vapid side actors. It works for movies as it's just 2-3 hours.. but shows are longer and viewers can see the flaws.
6:31 and this is why "Marvel Spotlight" was a great idea. I always keep in mind that COVID affected everything worldwide, including the MCU. Would Phase 4 have been much different if COVID hadn't caused production delays? I guess we'll never know. I like that Marvel Studios used their downtime during the strikes to really evaluate their TV production processes.
And its already makes no sense. They states Spotlight is the not connected stuffs.
Make makes Echo which is a spin-off, daredevil, which is a spin off, a sequel, and a soft-reboot, and also that wakanda show about dora milaje/okoye is also stated as a spotlight title, which is obviously not possible to be not connected.
As a fan of the Netflix series (except the first season of Iron Fist), I would like the Daredevil series to be a continuation. The last season on Netflix had teased plenty of things.
I feel like one issue was how we had to juggle between watching the TV shows/miniseries' to the movies, it just became a mess of what is important and what isn't, to the point Marvel had to throw meaningless cameos to make us think this is important.
I feel like the shows would work more if they were to showcase longer storylines for the characters we've already seen in movies to flesh them out more. They've kinda done this already, however I think they are putting too much emphasis on creating Disney+ shows for characters that haven't been in movies already. The movies should be the focus. I think this is just one of the reasons why things are feeling disjointed.
I think that Moon Knight and both Loki seasons were the only good seasons after Endgame. But that's just my personal preference
I enjoyed Loki both seasons they were freaking fantastic in my opinion.
Marvel Studios' foray into television has been a journey of both triumphs and tribulations. The key to enhancing the quality and appeal of their TV series lies not just in high production values, but in understanding the essence of what makes a superhero story resonate with its audience.
One fundamental lesson Marvel can learn from its own Netflix series, as well as DC's ventures on CW and HBO Max, is the importance of character-driven narratives. Shows like 'Daredevil' and 'Jessica Jones' excelled because they delved deeply into the complexities of their protagonists, making them relatable and their conflicts more engaging. Similarly, DC's 'Arrow' and 'The Flash' have thrived by focusing on character development, coupled with compelling story arcs that balance superhero action with human drama.
Marvel's approach to TV should also consider the benefits of a separate entity, akin to DC's distinction between its cinematic and television universes. This separation allows for creative freedom, enabling shows to establish their unique tone and style without being overly constrained by the broader cinematic narrative. For instance, 'Supergirl' and 'Legends of Tomorrow' demonstrate how diverse storytelling and tone can coexist under the superhero genre, catering to different audience segments while maintaining a cohesive universe.
In terms of characters, Marvel has a rich tapestry to draw from. Focusing on lesser-known heroes can offer fresh perspectives and stories, avoiding the saturation of popular characters. This approach was effectively utilized in 'Guardians of the Galaxy' within the MCU, and can be replicated in their TV endeavors.
Moreover, Marvel should not shy away from embracing diverse genres within its TV series. The success of 'WandaVision' in experimenting with sitcom formats shows the potential of genre-blending. This can be a unique selling point, distinguishing Marvel's TV branch from its cinematic counterpart and other superhero TV shows.
In conclusion, Marvel's TV branch has the potential to craft a unique identity by focusing on character-driven stories, embracing creative freedom, exploring diverse genres, and delving into the wealth of lesser-known characters. By learning from both its successes and missteps, as well as those of its counterparts, Marvel can redefine what superhero television can be.
MoonKnight was a Great Show!
Moonknight had it's issues, but I liked it for the most part. Also I think that it's better overall the way they did this, to cement moonknights character under the mask before having him put it on, because things become highly complex easily and having to simultaneously build the character and the hero is hard when the character is 2-3 people in one.
Personally, I think it ought to be a weekly hour show spanning several series. Background and side stories of various heroes to provide weekly variety and to help lay out backstories with big movies as their climaxes featuring the large cross-over. Think of shows featuring the heroes building up to the Avengers movie. Trying to overdose me on Scarlet Witch and then leaving me hanging for two years for any sort of follow-up is not a way to endear me to the series or any of the characters for example.
And it can give opportunities to characters that probably won't get starring roles for the foreseeable future. This could even be useful to bring in characters besides Daredevil from the earlier shows. I'd love to see half an hour to an hour that's just Sprite (this assumes she kept her powers when she made herself mortal) or Luke Cage having one-off adventures in between these longer arcs.
Mind you, to keep this going consistently it would probably need to be animated, But a full 26 episode season that's an MCU anthology mixing individual episodes with longer story arcs would be awesome.
I think the problem too is Marvel clearly already had a blueprint they could copy from with the previous Netflix and ABC shows. Just make the exact same shows, just with longer seasons and more tie ins/setups to the films. Allow them to explore their own storylines as well, rather than feeling like homework for future movies
Yeah I loved Moon Knight, but it is still irritating that the mini series format is present. It felt like the MCU felt too good to do the proper way of television
The problem with general audiences, they generalize their fatigues and wants should be others. Comic books have been a niche audience living outside of general for generations, the mix is starting to un but that may not mean the materials are too many but the expectation of studios DC, Marvel, Image, may be lower your expectation of audience/dollar participation.
Yes!
Loki is the best thing to come out of the MCU since Endgame.
Loki was amazing
No
@@ninjanibba4259 yes
@@Anthonycheesman33 no
Moon Knight was an amazing show. I'm legitimately surprised that this channel doesn't enjoy it. It was incredible and we could debate the semantics as to why some decisions were good or bad, but overall, it was a very good show.
Please watch an actual show like Barry
@@TheJamesrw10 What a garbage take. It's not like every movie has to be citizen kane.
Agreed but it’s largely because it didn’t have a forced connection to the rest of the MCU
I agree, the finale was one of the most original and creative things ever created by marvel.
@@TheJamesrw10 I am a professional writer. I know good shows, what makes them, and how to avoid them being bad. I have watched many shows and studied them, and many things, in depth to know what I am talking about. I am not saying that in no way would I not change a few things, but the growth of Steven, of the relationship with Steven and Marc, the masterful work of Hawk and Isaac, how the villain was portrayed, I mean I really could go on and on about how well this show was done. Is it Arcane or BoJack? No, but it is a great show. I am not sure what Barry is.
Loki, Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel and WandaVision were spectacular. I'd say things are simple. Quality over quantity. Dial things back, and we'll be okay. Feige and Iger have all addressed this. Now lets give them the time to make these changes they said they are. They are doing showrunners now and a plethora of things they should have done from the beginning. So, lets give them the chance to show us what they are now going to do differently.
And side note. I know theres a small loud minority of yall who want Marvel to fail. For your own personal and politcal reasons. And yall are pathetic. If you dont agree with something dont watch. Stop giving them your money. But they dont. They just want to hate and grift because it gives you a echochamber to scream into. Point is, Disney will be okay.
regarding your side note, personally it's not that i wish marvel to fail but just it feels they are too locked into their own comfort zone. for me this sounds like stagnation and i'd wish they'll di something creative and even take a risk with completely new things. marvel studious and disney surely have made enough money from all these movies and tv shows. why not think of other ideas? even outside of marvel comics, or at least of known and established ones?
In my opinion Mrs
Marvel wasn't that good
Loki and moon night were great and Hawkeye were pretty good
I thought they started out pretty good. WandaVision, S1 Loki, Falcon and WS and Hawkeye were good. But everything after that, with the exception of She Hulk, has been a chore i started and didnt want to finish.
Taweret was adorable and Moon Knight was one of the best ones!
The problem with the shows being connected to the films is most people cannot watch all the shows and films.
Even when you do watch them.. th don’t feel connected at all
And even if you can, if you don’t like a show early on you’re not going to watch the other episodes
@@Promatuerbecause they don't want the general public that doesn't watch the series to not understand the movies, so the series kinda have no purpose
Loki, moon knight, and Wanda vision was pretty good
I thought Loki was surprisingly good
The question I have for most big budget streaming originals is: how can it be profitable? Streaming originals make money incidentally, by theoretically increasing subscription rates. But if someone was going to subscribe anyway, then how would that make sense? I don't see how this would work long term without investor capital unless they become pay per view, where you have to pay for this show specifically, for their first few months.
Shit looked like quagmires arm😂
Giving Fiege the ability to merge the two "universes" beyond a few vague references started the transformation from entertainment to content. The need to watch these shows to know what the hell was going on rather than just having a bit more insight was the final nail in the coffin for me: Didn't have any interest in Scarlet Witch...then I went to see The Multiverse of Madness and had no idea what the heck was going on. It actually makes one a little nostalgic for the parochial nature of Netflix Marvel.
The problem with a lot of these marvel shows is that they only have 6 episodes and means that they have to rush everything to fit in 6 episodes. Secret Invasions rushed its last episode to finish every major characters story and it felt to cramp and it could of been done over 2 episodes.
Well they should be looking at British television productions for advice on how to write stories for a 6-10 episode season cause they had been doing it long before Netflix was a thought in anyone’s head cause cause red dwarf was doing 6 episodes seasons back in 1988 that’s why they are doing better on streaming then American shows cause we are having to adapt from the standard 22-26 episodes seasons
I really enjoyed WandaVision, Loki, What If...?, and Moon Knight. Falcon and the Winter Soldier wasn't the worst thing I've seen in the MCU. I can't defend much of She-Hulk or Secret Invasion.
Moon Knight was dope
Theres one problem with most of the tv show I did notice is that every thing is a world ending threat, these shows should be about the main character with low stakes
Really enjoyed the scenes you use to accompany your discussion. So many were on point.
I thought loki and moon knight were both fun and interesting spins on the genre, I feel like general super hero fatigue kinda ruined any chance for good rating on those.
Comparing Loki n Secret Invasion is literally like comparing the sky n ground
What? The sky is a part of earth
Any chance they bring back Foggy and Karen with the new direction of DD??
Moon Knight was great - Loki S1 and Wandavision as well.
Moonlight was great because it does not feel tied to the marvel universe it feel like is his own thing.
Moon Knight, not Moonlight lol
Sorry but moonknight absolutely deserves another season. He’s by large a way more interesting character than most of marvel characters getting tv shows
Daredevil is in my opinion still the best marvel tv show of all time it has everything a good tv show has, good writing, cinematography, action, characters and etc.
but MCU shills on reddit keep telling"ey its not cannon"
It's the best superhero show imo
Daredevil and Loki are my top favourite Marvel shows. Am I weird?
@@Chimera723 Well Loki is a 2 hour movie enlogated into 6 episodes..and the sensation of fillerscenesishigh Ans use the INFINITE Stones as a paperweigths was dumb
@@FULANODETAL So, you just enjoy other things than me. It's a matter of personal taste. I love Daredevil and Loki for different reasons, but both shows have great cast and well written, complex characters. And both are thought provoking. I really love the humor of Loki, the absurdity and the poetics. Generally I understand the criticism of MCU shows, I just really love Loki and I enjoyed WandaVision. I watched also "Moon Knight", "Hawkeye" and "Falcon and Winter Soldier", but I wasn't so impressed. It's the same thing with Marvel Netflix - I love Daredevil. I pretty liked Jessica Jones at first, but I somehow it got worse at the end of season 1. I didn't like Iron Fist much and I was kind of disappointed by the other stuff. "Punisher" wasn't bad, but I enjoyed the character much more in Daredevil show. Just my thoughts. It's long, sorry!
Werewolf by Night is forever iconic!!! Special Presentations are the perfect standards going forward nice hour long stories that focus on the characters and no filler
Why not team up with DC? Who wouldn't want to see Spider-man fighting the Joker? it has been done before in the comics.
Personally, outside of Secret Invasion, i e enjoyed the shows of the MCU. Not all perfect but they had entertaining moments. Secret Invasion had a good start but man it just became a train wreck at the end.
Hey to each their own
But green lighting more Moon Knight is all I been waiting for !
wtf is wrong with moon knight. That show was great
Honestly a big problem is that they're structuring the larger MCU narrative to include the TV shows as required watching. When really the TV shows should just be additional lower budget viewing for the fans who just want more lore. Honestly an entire TV show based around society trying to adapt to the Thanos snap would be a good start. It would tackle that five year gap from a logical story perspective without requiring viewers to watch it to understand the next thor movie. The TV stuff should add feel to the story. Maybe reference it once or twice in a main MCU movie but contributing to, rather than reacting to, the mainline narrative just hurts both in the process.
The lack of utilization of traditional TV practices - a show Bible, pilot, etc- is probably one of thw biggest issues with the Marvel series. Adding those back in would likely help fix the pacing issues.
DUDE! Moon Knight was amazing!
Weirdly enough, I actually liked Hawkeye, despite not liking the character or the actor
Loki season 1 and 2 are really good, i also enjoyed Wandavision, Moon Knight and even She-Hulk, those four felt like they were proper series instead of movies cut in six episodes
Loki is definitely the best Marvel show that came out after Post End Game era. Loki's story & his character just cemented him as the best character of Marvel. Moon Knight was something different, I enjoyed it. Wanda Vision was good but the ending was...well it was an ending.
With how the new phase of MCU is going , would say :
The MCU is getting into vein of comic books and the comics are getting cinematized.
And that is not a good sign since any comic reader would know how messed up the continuity and timeline gets in comics with crossovers and events.
And how much they get in the way of telling a good story for everyone including casual audience dont have time to watch all other shows just to watch a new movie & not just for the ppl who have stuck around post endgame due to sunk cost fallacy in term of time.
Let me just say that Moon Knight was Amazing, if not the best !
You have a point, but it seems like it's an even deeper problem of having bad writers. Otherwise, Disney's other IPs and movies wouldn't also be churning out mostly terrible to mid movies.
Regarding the connection between films and TV, I think they should draw inspiration from the Star Trek films The Wrath of Khan and First Contact, both of which were follow-ups to episodes of their respective shows BUT, unlike Marvel, they kept in mind that not everybody watches TV, so they made sure the films could still stand on its own in a way that audiences that didn't watched the shows cpuld still understand the movies. For example, First Contact's FIRST SCENE was a flashback/nightmare that allowed people unfamiliar with The Next Generation to understand Picard's motivations and character arc. Marvel should do something similar, make sure audiences catch-up with what happened in the shows within the movie itself.
The MCU is a beast to watch and keep up with. You feel like you have to have seen every movie and show to understand the next movie. That really alienates an entire audience and new generation to the movies.
Loki and wandavision were brilliant, falcon and winter soldier, moon knight and ms marvel were okay but the villains were so trash
Agreed. The character stories were all good but so many mid/bad villains in all their movies and shows lately
Moon Knight had a good villain with Alexander Harrow
I'd say Loki, Moon Knight, and Hawkeye were good.
Wandavision was alright.
Everything else I don't recall seeing. I believe they were shows like She-hulk were bad or Ms. Marvel that are for a specific audience.
The only 2 I’ve like are loki and moon knight