Helldivers 2 - Arrowhead CEO Speaks on Nerf Enemies!
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
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Игры
📌BREAKING: We Failed The Major Order But Got The Stratagem Instead! ruclips.net/video/MIIlVb9M5Vc/видео.html
What do you all think about the CEO response: Weaker Enemies OR More Ammo Capacity?
Me: I'd rather have the increase ammo capacity because I feel the enemies are not too tough to deal with just need that extra capacity.
Ammo
Ya, more ammo seems like the better option. I haven't heard anyone complain about spongy enemies, but I have heard complaints about the poor ammo economy of some weapons
"I'd rather have the increase ammo capacity because I feel the enemies are not too tough to deal with just need that extra capacity."
^^THIS^^
Screw that azz hole.
FIRED! LOL
Gone! Bye bye!
KARMA
Ammo. Enemies are good. Adjust the weak weapons upward and more ammo.
Make railgun kill a bile titans in 4 charged headshots.
Make railgun kill chargers in 2 charged headshots.
Make 2 rockets kill bile titans in direct head hits.
Community testing to help perfect balance could be good. If you do this please take balance of all difficulties into play as some people are hard-core and others are not. We play semi hard-core so I wouldn't want to see the hard difficulties too watered down.
Maybe they should implement a Test Planet like lets say MARS. Mars becomes a RND PLANET where certain hell divers can visit and test thing out that the devs need feedback.
Im not sure how feedback will work but an RnD test planet can fit in game lore.
Cool
This comment deserves more attention
This right here is an amazing idea! I'm not sure if it would work because weapons would be the same stats right? Unless they have different ones pre spawn on the planet? Also I shared this comment with the CEO on Twitter. Hopefully, he'll see it.
This would be sick. A test planet and the loadouts are weapons/stratgems/boosters in development.
Amazing bro
Never thought I'd see reverse power creep, where everything gets weaker and weaker lol
Only blind people misses what arrowhead is doing... The snowballs is a hint🤣 sarcasm
I finally got my hands on the SG-225IE Breaker Incendiary Shotgun from Steeled Veteran Warbond and it's awesome. (I held off from buying it for quite some time) but anyways it's amazing, now if they nerf that I"d be little upset.
@@GlitchUnlimitedit was kinda mid before but they buffed it to be this good, here’s hoping they don’t walk that one back
If they nerf it I don't know what I'll use.
@@GlitchUnlimited i used the incendiary for a long time. Now that my aiming is a bit better the normal breaker is still way better... I still think its the best weapon in the game.
Public test servers is what they need. Warbond guns aren't getting tested enough. It would also cut down on bugs.
Exactly!! And i question the person who tested the PLAS-101 Purifier.
Well presumably the guns will also cut down bugs
@@GlitchUnlimitedthat gun is pure garbage. Long charge time for mediocre damage. Also no obvious way to let you know when it is ready to fire.
Why are people behind spitz? Everytime there was a patch, he added fuel to the fire. Even in the beginnen of the linking shit. Just because he said 1 good thing, doesnt change the other shit he should have been removed for.
Because people are idiots who saw hos one single tweet saying to refound and now decided his consistent toxic behaviour don't mater.
He amend, that's probably why. Also yeah even if he amends, AH probably wouldnt be able to re-hire spitz due to contract with sony
I was surprised to see that many signatures. It's unexpected that the number got so high.
Have you all thought that you were impatient, and Spitz risked his job to help you all? His idea worked more than anything else. You all should have relaxed and let Sony cook ... it wasn't sony that ruined things it was Valve selling games where they shouldn't.... but no one is going to say it out loud because it violates the contract between publishers and Valve .... steam is responsible for PSN account linking .... it's why Spitz told us to go to Valve for refunds .... Sony doesn't lose money on that ... they were given their check upfront after 5 million plus PC sells .... Valve distributes the product .... we should have been mad at steam not PS and AH suffered for it ... we have no clue how many people got fired or laid off because of our stupid childish unknowledgeable recourse ... we should be ashamed we caused this issue ... PC gamers are spoiled brats. I said what I said
@savlosavage Have you thought that him being consistently toxic and unhelpfull is not made up for by dismissively telling people who complain to stop playing and try to refound? Spitz is the guy who deleted the HD1 discord removing a lot of history because he got upset. He is one of the roots of the rott not a saviour.
Also dude. Valve only sells the game where the publisher asks them to. It is literally all on Sony.
I want to see ammo pods show up on the map. That way when players drop ammo and I'm desperate, I know where the selfish prigs dropped it and I can go get some. If a monster destroys the pod, or all it's ammo is used up, the map beacon should go away.
And what am I supposed to do when I also have no ammo or stims and have been gathering all the samples? Just die and drop the samples?
Yes, like the EATs.
Why is this not in the game already? Brilliant idea!
This fuckin guy Alexus has the gall to call the new Warbond S tier. He needs tried for Treason by Super Earth feed him to the first Hive Lord we find.
he's so obsessed withwhat he thinks is "right" instead of what might be fun
He's not fit for purpose!
I believe he was being sarcastic
I'm convinced the balance dev doesn't want to do his job thus explains why he's making bizarre excuses as "oh it takes 4 years to balance weapons or oh we need a wider PTS" like bro it does not take 4 years, for me it takes 20 minutes to evaluate all weapons. I really feel like this is an excuse used to avoid the extra balancing work as much as humanely possible and I'm not the one to be supporting this, but they need to get rid of alexus at this point he is bad for the game and for the community.
100% felt that way to me too, he's gatekeeping his own short comings and failures
Apply for playstester if you are so skilled to complete all testing in 20 minutes.
While 4 years is ridiculous statement, there really is no way of knowing if you tested every tactic community can come up with.
PTS is always welcome
yes you could evaluate something in 20 minutes and say its perfect or bad but that would be to your standard. You will always have people complain about anything. No I don't think there doing the greatest job but they are also not the worst at it either. Most weapons right now work just fine. You have a few that stand out and a few that are vary underwhelming
I was there for the call of duty modern warfare 2 one man army and akimbo model 1887 and that was from a company that released a game just about every year yet they still have weapons that are clearly unbalanced.
Who have you ever worked for ?? I'm just asking because I see a lot of people who don't do the job making all these complaints. And I don't want to assume you don't know what you are talking about
Pretty sure what he's trying to point out is to get the equivalent time testing would take around that long given the size of his team. If 100k divers put one hour into a weapon that's obviously about 100k hours of "test time." For example if his team is only 4 people (I have no idea how big his team actually is) it would take them 25000 hours to do the same amount of testing. That breaks down to about 1042 days running at 24\7 and no time off. That's pushing 3 years right there.
If RUclipsrs get "early exclusive access" they will turn into Arrowhead shills to maintain that access to drive their channel. It's as clear as day, that would happen. I hope they to a public test route or pool of non-youtuber players. They could even say - You've been selected to temporarily transfer to the Ministry of Science for Super Earth Technology Advancement. Nothing against RUclipsrs. I just see it as a potential conflict of interest where y'all will hype the new thing to drive engagement
Agreed. I dont think a select few Helldivers should get access either. It should rotate new people in. Same handful of people would have all the say. They'd be out of touch with the community in hours.
They should do what star citizen and dayz does make an experimental server that any and all players can join and give feedback on their game mechanics
Like a draft
Look at wargaming. God forbid you criticize anything.They own the youtubers.
Best would be to democratize test access, Super Earth sends you to an experimental mission after 20 successful extractions.
This evilboss guy is full of crap, you don't need 100k hours of testing to know if something is busted or useless. Even if you only 5 QA testers that should be more then enough. I'm starting to think they don't do any QA testing at all.
Exactly. I know if a weapon is a downgrade, side grade, or upgrade in a single game.
With a name like evil boss I could only expect BS
its kinda weird and inconsistent, some of their balancing changes are genuinely fair in my opinion, but then theres the liberator buff which was already really good and the crossbow nerf which was already pretty mediocre...i feel like it dosent take much testing to notice the tenderizer is a high caliber rifle with lower recoil than the liberator and pretty much worse in every way though..
@@StickFailedHisLife the liberater is the gun the game gives you from the beginning every rifle after that should be a small improvement not the same as or worse it’s literally the baseline of what a weapon should do in the game and to put out a war bond with weapons that preforms worse than that is shameful
If they want a rifle with lower fire rate than the damage per shot should be higher than the liberator or it becomes a worse version of the liberator when both rifle have the same damage per shot but the rpm is lower that means the dps will be lower witch makes the weapon less viable why would I want to do the same damage but slower (example: why would you go with 500 damage in two seconds instead of 500 damage in one second)🤷♂️
Yes. Ex. Eruptor. It was way too powerful and ammo isn't correct. Hitting medium size bug like brood command with 1 shot.
2nd patch is to correct it. Hitting 2 shot to kill Brood Command.
3rd patch. Hitting 4 shots to kill Brood Command.
That takes less than 2 hours of gameplay per patch to notice the difference.
Most of new bond is a copy paste weapon with minor changes from the default gun. It's nothing too exciting about. The only 1 I like is the incendiary grenade. Everything else is meh-bad. Im not into cosmetic.
You fight about the same number of bugs in EDF 5 as you do in Helldivers 2. EDF has a class with a primary weapon that hits everything on the map at the same time, and will 100% kill all basic enemies. It full clears. The. Map. Is it balanced? Yes. Because 10 fucking seconds later you're back to being gagglefucked by infinite fucking bugs. Other primary weapons include a laser target designator that lets you direct a salvo of 30 or so ICBMs (as an infantry dude on foot BTW), a shoulder mounted canon that will kill everything in a 45 degree cone out to like 700m, and a sniper rifle that one shots EVERYTHING but the final boss. Is the game unbalanced? No. Why not?
ITS A GOD DAMN HOARD SHOOTER! So is Helldivers. Yes, we get stratagems. Every like 2 minutes I can drop a few bombs. Whoop-de-fucking-doo! I need a gun that is balanced for fighting 80 fucking hunters at once, not balanced for killing one enamy that's PROBABLY another Helldiver.
This guy gets it.
Example. (Scorcher) 8 mags, 15 rounds (120 total) 60%-80% hit rate (72-96/120 hits) with enemies eating 3-5 shots each average to 4. That's 18-24 enemies...
You claim it's a hoard shooter but that doesn't mean it designed that way or that it has to be like others.
Maybe you have fun pulling the trigger and killing everything on the map.
I think it's fun to look at an enemy base and have to actually think about how I'm going to engage and where I'm going to retreat to if things hit the shit.
I've never played Earth defense Force but I have played deep Rock galactic.
In that you very much can be overwhelmed.
You very much can run out of ammo.
You absolutely need to decide which side objectives you're going to do to make sure you don't fail the main objective.
Not every game is meant to fulfill a power fantasy and make you feel like a super soldier.
Sometimes you're meant to feel like a regular soldier thrown at impossible odds.
@@kamikeserpentail3778the difference with deep rock tho is that the weapons are actually fun and effective and can deal with more than a small handful of enemies at once.
@@carljohnson3434 you're not supposed to be able to clear hordes with your primary, the game pushed stratagems for a reason. what would be the point of the grenade launcher or airburst rocket or even the machine guns if you could have to same result with your primary weapon?
@@frogfood1675 use any of those when you have 20-30 bugs in your face. And I'm not talking about armored enemies. That's what stratagems are for. I'm talking about small and medium boys.
It has nothing to do with test servers. It is their balance philosophy that is broken/doesn't exist. They are looking at spread sheet data with the hopes that formulas will create balance for them without the risk of putting their rear ends on the line. Whoever really does the balancing is using the data to CYA (cover-your-*ss). They do not have a "fun" metric and, unfortunately, the "fun" metric is the ONLY thing that will stop the cratering player count.
The answer is simple, buff don't nerf. Buff under used weapons making them vaible or at the very least fun to use. Most of the lvl 100 plus aren't chasing unlocks we're not min maxing for the perfect build. We found it already for our style and now we help/experiment with odd builds. Which you quickly discover 60% of the weapons under perform and have almost no place aside from difficulties 1-4.
Oh for fuck's sake, make all weapons powerful (not op but useful, it's not complicated), just let us have fun, this is not a pvp game we don't need balance, the game is challenging enough anything further just makes it frustrating
It's not a PVP game.
So it's also okay if the game is imbalanced in the favor of the enemies.
In fact, most games are balanced in favor of the enemies. That's what makes it feel good, overcoming the odds.
And then this game has nine difficulty settings.
Everyone is literally complaining that the weapons don't work as well as they want on difficulty. 9.
Maybe they should realize that the default difficulty for most people should be like 5.
@@kamikeserpentail3778except that the weapons also feel like cheecks even level 5 difficulty, take it frome someone who has no shot at soloing helldive.
@@kamikeserpentail3778 That's a dumb take, it's very simple. if it isn't fun then it's no good, and the odds were in the favour of the enemies upon launch and yet no one complained because we also had options to deal with them effectively while also having to pay attention and actually be skillful. I do not understand people like you who just take everything without a word and decide to just cope instead of trying to advocate for a game that could be more fun then it is now.
@@DGABESZ97 No it's not a dumb take, hence people love the souls games.
And it's because unlike you I'm actually skilled at the game.
I find challenge to be fun.
I know some of you only find fun in dominating, in the power trip, but not every game is designed that way and this one never really was.
@@kamikeserpentail3778 Right....
Idk....It's a PVE game. Insanely strong overpowered weapons are fun and would keep ppl wanting to play. Forget balance, we want fun! Who cares if some guns one 1 everything...make the enemies a little stronger...don't nerf the gun. We are here for mass destruction, Flames and ragdolls and lots of dying! Love HD2
Honestly overpowered weapons would get boring after a while and I think the community would self regulate their usage.
Yea over buffing everything isn’t the answer, but so is nerfing everything into being unusable
Because of Power Creep. Power Creep is always a problem in PvE games if you put balance to the side and if you keep making enemies stronger because guns are too strong, you run into a point where everything is insanely strong and you need to be perfect to not die. The real problem with it is that it makes games boring and things lose their charm super quickly if you die quickly or the enemies die quickly. Most of the guns in the game are in a fine state. They're viable enough. Some could certainly be a bit stronger and some could be a bit weaker.
DRG, for example, chooses not to handle power creep at all. Once you have the best of the best for you, the game gets easy and just.. kinda boring. The challenge is what makes a game fun. I got a good 200-300 hours out of DRG and I enjoyed it for every hour I played. But once I started unlocking overclocks and upgrading my stuff to be extremely strong the game just got super boring. Everything I used started to become strong and there was no tension anymore because my loadouts were perfectly designed and theres no incentive to try and run other things because you'd get wiped because the strong stuff is just THAT much stronger. Letting things be strong can equally ruin enjoyment of a game.
I remember when people thought it was fun when people got nuked... That random funny moment is what makes this game... If they are going to micro managing this they are going to kill that vibe.
I would rather have all the guns in a similar good/great power level and have some weapons in S tier for specific situations or builds. Feels like most of the guns are not even in decent levels while a very few others are really good.
This... shouldn't be as much of a problem as it currently is. I understand how balancing can get dicey in regards to a PvP game, but PvE...? Just eyeball it roughly and put another 20-30% power on top just to be safe. Much more important, surely, has to be that weapons have a unique feel. Can't wait to get another ballistic assault rifle with light penetration and a slight tweak in firerate...
In that same spirit removing the Eruptor's Shrapnel was just the worst possible balancing action that could been done for example.
I'm just hoping that the game can get back on track in the near future.
The main issue with balancing a game like Helldivers is the enemies themselves.
They are tough to take down, and often come at you in large numbers. Especially on higher difficulties.
That causes weapons to rise up because they can do one of two things: High Damage Per shot, not Damage Per Second, and how much ammo they have.
Biggest reason I stick with the Sickle Energy Rifle is because managing the heat is better than always running out of ammo. It's got the same damage number as the basic AR, but if you do it correctly, can have infinite ammo. And simply needs to be managed. When one enemy can use a whole mag to kill, and there's 10 or more of them like them, it becomes a problem.
Conversely, huge amount of heavy unit enemies is what caused the Quasar Cannon to become popular. Honestly, when you take into account various factors, the Recoilless Rifle is superior in my mind. The ONLY thing that makes the Quasar better is no backpack ammo requirement. Meaning, you can customize your loadout better. If you want that personal shield to help survive more, if you want that guard dog, or that resupply pack... you can with the Quasar.
Here's what I think needs to happen to balance out the Recoilless vs the Quasar:
When you select the Recoilless Stratagem, you get 2 stratagem calls. One for the launcher, the other for the backpack. The launcher is on a lenghty cooldown, but the ammo pack isn't. Maybe 2 minutes. This way, you can keep it with only 5 extra rounds for a total of 6 shots, but you can get more quicker. Having to reach a tier 4 ship upgrade in order to not become a burden to your teammates with resupply drops is a shitty design, it discourages the use of a weapon like the recoilless. Either Arrowhead makes the resupply backpack its own Stratagem to call down separately from the launcher, or make it so that we always get full ammo from a resupply stratagem, and rework the Tier 4 upgrade which helps with that. Because that tier 4 upgrade is locked away to anyone who isn't skilled enough to do suicide or higher difficulty... and that's terrible game design.
Thanks for the good read! With the Sickle Energy Rifle! Were you excited when they released the Plas-101 Purifier in the newest Warbond? I was because I only have the sickle and then now Plas-101 but found out it was not that exciting. Hopefully that will be one of these changes as well with quaser in the future. It's crazy how things are now.
@@GlitchUnlimited I haven't checked on that Phas101, haven't had the time to get back in after the Sony debacle, x3
I ran the sickle for a long time after getting it. It doesn't feel as effective anymore. It seems to overheat quicker than I remember and the nerf to clips kind of stinks. Although I never really run out it just feels off a bit with patrols being higher. Currently looking for something new to use.
It will be awhile before I can get it. I don't like running all match and skipping objectives. I've found that challenging difficulty is more what very hard used to be so i won't be unlocking that any time soon. My rares and commons have been maxed out for a long time. I want to enjoy playing not running the whole match and I hope we find some samples
honestly, one of the biggest things for me is taking a loadout that covers everything. Not because I don't trust the team, but so I don't become a burden on it.
My go to bot load out is Autocannon, scorcher, senator and stuns because I am a threat to everything the bots throw at me at level 7.
My second bot load out is HMG, Supply pack, eruptor, stuns and redeemer for the same reason
I feel like everyone on this team worked so hard to make an amazing game and all the lazy dead weight got thrown onto the balance team. They arent entitled to a job its time to let them go and get some people that share youe vision
they have so many elements to make weapons "balanced":
1. they have "game master" which practically can set what kind of mission we should play on weekly basis
2. they can play around it to make things interesting. for example, in hot planet, armor effectiveness is less, so people don't need to bring a high penetrating weapon more. light penetrating weapons are what it takes. both for enemies and divers
3. on icy planet, the reverse. armor effectiveness increases, making light penetrating weapons less effective. however, explosive damage are more effective since armors are more brittle.
3. instead of nerfing railguns to the ground, make it so in ionic planet it takes more time to charge the weapon since the planet screws up the internal magnetic component of the weapon.
4. still in the ionic planet, arc weapons jump more, but it'll be more unpredictable which sometimes will suddenly hit and kill yourself. now you got reasons to bring anti electric armor if you bring electric weapons.
5. make it's easier to spread fire in jungle lush planet, and harder to spread in icy planet.
6. to reduce people from overusing eagle, make it so in an meteoric planets, eagles will sometime fails due to heavy rain of meteor which prevents eagle to reach the divers
7. BUFF TURRETS and MINES! make it a bit more overpowered, low cooldowns, more ammo (even make it multiple deployment for mines like eagle), BUT make it so that in earthquake, it suddenly destroy all of your deployments.
like... you don't really need to "balance" weapon, you just need to give reasons/limitations for divers to stop them from overusing certain type of weapon/strats. people will get creative and figure out their own ways to enjoy the game. but when you nerf weapons to the ground just because statistically too many people are using it, it's not fun. it's boring.
Okay he's not TECHNICALLY wrong but my brother in Christ it takes two minutes to test break points
While I understand being a small studio means things can take time, if their response is that it would take 5 years to make a balanced warbond, there's bigger problems at play than unbalanced weapons.
Thats not what he said, he said 10k people testing for one hour did the work of 1 tester working for 5 years. And if you require 10k hours of testing a warbond before release, it would be 5 years between warbonds
@@Andyisgodcky That is BULLSHIT... the moment you started to use the weapon, you didn't even needed 30seconds to know, it's garbage.... BS responses of incompetent people.
@@AndyisgodckyI genuinely want to know how your brain works if you think that is any kind of truthful response or assessment of the situation … 100k players playing for 5 minutes each DOES NOT equal 500k testing minutes. What world do you live in? It may be relevant for a mass of players discovering BUGS and GLITCHES, but not to balance a weapon. Miss me with that comparison. Judging the balance of something does not require circumstantial situations such as when bugs and glitches are discovered.
Wow. No wonder society is on a general cognitive decline.
@Andyisgodcky perhaps I may have misunderstood what was said, however I've seen similar videos about this where the same things have been said by both the video creator and in the comments. So if there's that much of a misunderstanding, perhaps the devs should try and clarify so that this doesn't become another huge debacle. I wasn't insulting the devs with my comment. I was merely pointing out there's other issues that are making things harder for them.
@@D4rkM4773r if you're looking for the cause of societal decline, check your mirror. Not once did I say I agreed with what the dev said, I just clarified what he was trying to say. Get some reading comprehension before you climb on your high horse again, or else you may hurt yourself
There's a disconnect between dev intention and player expectation. Now I'm not going to advocate that premium warbond weapons are just straight better than anything already in the game, but there is the expectation that they'll be at least as useful. If the standard Liberator is both the base line and gold standard for what an assault rifle is to be in the game, then any AR made after it either needs to be just as good if not slightly better or able to fit a niche the standard Liberator doesn't. Also I don't know what the dev intention were for the Tenderizer, but the fact it's named the Tenderizer sets up a certain expectation for players that the gun does not live up to. Be like naming a new slug shooting shotgun "the Hole Puncher" that has no armor penetration at all.
kinda like how you get an AUTOCANNON that bounces off of everything...
Well that's the problem. The standard liberator is mediocre. It's way too slow to kill even light armor medium enemies.
funny you mention the tenderizer cause i can tell you want it's suppose to be. it's suppose to be "like" the stalwart but crappy. Honestly, they just need to put double ammo capacity in the magazine and it will do nicely. The purifier is so lame right now, it's a joke. Honestly, they need to compare every weapon with the AC cz they love the AC so much that it can do anything. Kill chargers? Yes! Shoot down gunships? Yes! Destroy nest and fabricators? Yes! Destroy shierker nest at long range and spore spewers? yes! can it reload itself faster than a recoilless? Yes! Honestly, compared to every weapon, it's too strong compared to other weapons with all the nerfs going on. Stalwart can only do 1 thing. shoot light enemies/mobs/ stalkers. Flamethrower? kills small bugs and charger. nothing else. Grenade launcher is lame as it can't destroy shierker nest for some reason. Why did the spore spewer get a buff in armor? The penetrator is so trash since release. Why would anyone use that gun. medium armored enemies on the bug side is just the hive guard and there are better options to deal with medium/heavy armored enemies. The HMG needs more ammo for it's long reload time. The HMG emplacement is a joke, can't penetrate charger or titan's armor. It's already got a big issue, it cannot move once placed. The machine gun sentry is pointless. No faster cooldown or more ammo than the gatling gun. The devs need to be asking themselves, why would anyone bebringing these weapons instead of the AC?
There's definitely a disconnect with the player base on how strong they think they're supposed to be.
They want a power fantasy where their main gun kills most things they point it at.
But I've grown accustomed to arrowhead's design where your main gun is meant to clean up whatever survives your stratagem, or work largely as a personal defense weapon as you relocate.
The player base played other hoard shooters and decided they should all be like that.
Just like people had played other RPGs and decided dark souls should be just like those, so a lot of people initially hated dark souls and some people still do.
The difference here is if you don't want to get good, you can always play on a lower difficulty
The slug shooting shotgun we have right now says it puts big holes in big enemies, which is an absolute lie 😂 It's worse in ever single way compared to the Punisher, especially for stagger.
More enemies that are less spongy is ideal.
Actually you know what? Why not have warbond weapons be able to get called down for a limited time before the release of the warbond?
One thing i LOVE about this game is that the enemy HP doesn’t change from trivial to helldive difficulty.
I really wish the developers would give up the nerf crusade on weapons. I love the Pummeler smg but every time I'm on a mission shooting enemies with it I'm also thinking in the back of my mind "this is too fun, they are gonna nerf this". I literally have nerf paranoia lol.
The answer is more diverse weapons not nerfing or buffing the same stuff
funny they have a problem with 3D design for extra ammo but didn't mind at all to adjust the breaker's 3D design when nerfing it
This bullshit with 3d models have 0 sense.
@@Igoreshkin At this point brother, I can agree
Can we start getting new weapons... As in new categorys... Like gravity guns, sound waves... Or what ever future technology super earth can come up with... U guys need some inspiration from insomniac. Most warbond have the same guns with some different tweaks.. it does not really change the gameplay.
It would be cooler to ger a freeze gun like Mr. Freeze in Batman since this is a polar warbond..
They have electric resistance armor, why not fire and freeze resistance armor?
@@tr1bes exactly... Like imagenba freeze granade then u have a few seconds to blow them to ice crystal pieaces... Like come on arrowhead, dont get tunnelvision.
I feel that new weapons is a clone of the default gun under that category with minor adjustments. Nothing new to entice the gamers.
Previous idea I have is a new faction (lizard and or reptilian).
A spy and suicide drone.
Bring back some of the well known weapons used on HD1 to HD2.
-Justice, Paragon, Camper, (These weapons will shred medium size armor enemies.
Same strategem for loadout like 2 static field, or 4 EAT(antitank rocket).
In short... No. 😐
We cannot start yet. For the sole reason the devs are struggling with the weapons we already have. To Ask them to bring more while they are clearly crumbling under the weight of what they did is just impossible.
I want it too ! Doesn't mean it will happen any time soon. Not before it is fixed... And there's plenty to do.
I want a LSW category for primaries. A rifle with an extended heavy barrel and a big magazine. Shit like the QBB in Black Ops 2 or a RPK or something. A halfway point between an AR and a machine gun.
I'm not optimistic about the future of this game until Alexus is fired.
The reason why they would have to do the 3D model is because the game is realistic. The mags actually have the exact amount of bullets per mag in each gun, each time you shoot, that mag depletes a round until empty or there is one left in the chamber. They just want the game to feel real regarding weapons.
There should be a “prototype weapon” strategem that drops an unreleased weapon available sometimes. It sorta worked for the cluster launcher.
Ahhhh I like this and the other comment somewhere here about planet testing. This would be awesome to see as well.
In today’s gaming environment, P.T.S is a mandatory requirement! Even if it’s a limited number of player based on total activate players
On the note of player inputs, I’d love it if the devs, would implement some player based ideas. I oh ready love how the devs interact with the community
Yeah, doesn’t it feel a bit wonky now with certain games? I could name few but really it's weird how it is. I think you're right about that, at least for some game devs that are unsure about the quality.
I liked the approach of the air burst launcher, where it was distributed to particular map, allowed players to try ij out. I believe that allowed issue fix with wrong detonation
They could allow the weapon, or strategem, be a free try on a special mission. Like they did with the power suit. Make it a special mission to liberate a test center. Let the players use it and give feedback.
And do it before the release date of the warbond or whatever they plan on. Yes I like that too. If they can do something quite similar.
Tbh if they have server issues they can just release a preview version of the weapon that’ll be available for everyone, sort of like the stratagem experimentation events they do sometimes.
It would save them a lot of trouble with setting up the servers and such, and would also fit into the game’s lore. Super Earth needs Helldiver reports to conclude what about a weapon needs changing, so go ahead and use it in the galactic war a little. (Super Earth does not take responsibility in the weapon prototypes harming the user)
As a casual player, I really don't care about balancing. They just need to fix extractions when no enemies show up.
The vast majority of players wouldn't know balance or viability if it was in their mouth. The issue is, those that do will be told they are wrong because normal people do not want to go further then skin deep, or a 2 minute test before deciding.
Admittedly, the devs are not much better, but I think they are scared of making things over powered as they have prior stated a focus on realism. I think what they need to do is recognize Helldivers 2 is not call of duty, it is not a war re-enactment, it is over the top alien spraying violence. The priority should not be on making a weapon 'balanced' but making each weapon type unique with its own fun mechanics. I would not mind, and I do not think many people would mind if half the weapons were literally just skins of the gun, possibly with slight customization to fit ones need.
Devs should not be afraid to have buffed weapons and nerfed weapons. I mean the "balancing" will never end. In any game, there will always be favorite characters and weapons , weak weapons and characters and strong ones. Arrowhead is trying to "balance" everything to non-fun
This confirms they test weapon in teams and not solo helldive.
I stand by it; solo helldive is the best way to test weapon's strength since you won't get carried by teammates.
Why would Solo Helldive be the standard of weapon strength? That would make the entire game wickedly easy. No amount of weapon buffs is going to make you more skilled at the game.
That alone won't solve the problem. The problem is when balancing is done based on data out of a spreadsheet alone and/or popularity, RUclipsrs overhyping weapons for click-bait etc.
Weapons need to be tested in a "real" in-game scenario by people of all levels of skill, not just by influencer cyborgs that can play solo Helldive with using just the Liberator or whatever. And the weapons need to be compared with the weapons that are already good and brought to that same level.
I think the patrols need some attention. You cannot tell me that if for example I launch a level 5 mission solo or like level 7 mission duo it gets so crazy like it's not even fun, the enemies just infinite spawn or if we run away some other patrol spawns and they insta lock onto us its unreal. Patrols definitely need attention ASAP.
We're stuck in a bad relationship waiting on the next one to sweep us off our feet.
It’s astonishing that they would reject proposals based on it “not making sense” when none of the recent decisions have made no sense whatsoever
What we really need is a voting booth in every ship. That way developers can poll game changes to the community.
I think the Magazine size issue might actually be an unintended consequence of just how detailed they modeled everything. We know individual bullets have been modeled into every mag, so if they increased the magazine size they'd HAVE to increase the magazine size, else the bullets would clip out of the magazine, or you'd have to have phantom bullets.
Did they need 100k ppl to realize the tenderizer was pulled from the pre ammo/resupply adjustment and liberator dmg update? Handling the weapon AT ALL would have revealed this.. Arrowhead seems to have a habit of painting itself into corners, and thankfully the world seems to be tiring of being gaslit.. I think "what's troubling me is(what is) the nature of their game." Are we playing a game, or just being played..
Beta branch for public testing in Deep Rock has been brilliant. Within a couple days of organized community feedback the devs are already adjusting. I’ve done the beta branch for years in DRG and to the update, they are always much much better on release than they were through the beta branch. Those devs listen, respond, communicate.
No man. That dev is nuts. It takes a few MINUTES of play testing from a SINGLE person to understand if something is just trash
Liberator Dominator with a +25% mag size is literally a jack-of-all trades gun. Would absolutely use it more if the mag size weren't so desperately small.
Something like a firing range to test weapons on live targets in a "simulated" (holograms or restrained test subjects) environment? Seen Mars pop up in the comments and I'd feel that'd work pretty well. Might also help tie into the developing the story by revealing test subjects affected by experiments escaping, similar to the recent Terminid outbreak -- though if they were to do so it'd have to be later on, probably with one of the next factions to be revealed. Maybe even a surprise Defense mission of Earth, or maybe the Moon? They could add some satellite planetoids to help expand the game, maybe use the Super Earth's Moon for Automotons and Mars for the Terminids, use asteroid belt locations for space battles against certain factions, expand mission types for more "grounded" opponents, etc. -- all considering we'll be seeing some planets be marked off the map... such as a certain Supercolony. Would definitely love to see some more urban/metro environments. Would be pretty cool to see bile titans walking around skyscrapers, especially if it ended up being a Kaijuu-level mutant you needed to take down with mechs.... so many possible ways to expand the game. Lastly.... maybe a Normandy-level event where we have to breach the Automotan defenses, in'a reversed fashion from the high-value asset missions? So many possibilities....
Public test servers to get good balancing could save this game's longevity if done well. Actually kinda hyped, but cautiously.
I think a great question to ask is:
What are the Parameters for QA and Testing for new weapons. Hopefully they have some sort of Guideline they follow to determine if a weapon passes QA or not.
From the surface, it seems they have more factors to consider before passing.
This is freaky. I just thought about this yesterday while playing and I just posted about public test servers in Clouds comment section. 🤣 That's freaky af.
They could have player testing weapons in player invites to report back to super earth training grounds. There they could have the new warbond weapons tested by players. Run bigger test on higher and lower difficulty with 1500 invited players at random. 3 hour window. Small focus group. Once a week. Dump them on the training grounds with objectives and enemies. We would know way faster ahead of time with feedback before releasing it to the public fully. Could fix reloads, bugs, scopes, dot expectations, damage range. Almost everything.
so While watching this I had a random thought what if they added support backpacks. the first one I thought about was a cooling backpack that while equipped it would make cooldown much faster and heat up much slower so that the quasar could go back to it's old cooldown without changing it but this backpack would also effect laser weapons so they are harder to overheat and as long as you don't fully overheat them they will cool off much faster as well. Then my second idea was an ammo box that give you a couple extra mags but if you have the stalwart, machine gun, or heavy machine gun equipped than they become belt fed from the back pack and no longer need to be reloaded you just have full access to their ammo. I really hope that someone from Arrowhead see this or someone from the community can forward it to them. because this idea could extend to many more areas like maybe a backpack that acts as an extra weapon slot so you can carry your support weapon and one extra that you found or called in or maybe it lets you carry both of your eat-17 launchers.
These devs wanna make everything extra complicated how about just let a lobby be a group of 6 instead of 4. It's that easy, but they'll probly nerf that too and make a lobby of only 3 for balancing purposes
If there were public test servers, we would have been able to keep the two liberator variants relative and the Slugger decent. Instead they knee jerked the ever living into the Dominator, neutered the Slugger, and the way the Dominator functions now; it does the job of both liberator variants better than either liberator variants at the same time. A mind boggling oversight that they still haven't rescinded and are adamant is correct. The tenderizer would have been something different than a subpar disappointment. The ricochet change could have not affected the Eruptors shrapnel. The LAS weapons could have been decent. There's so many things missed that Arrowhead is just like, "We didn't think it was bad. Because we didn't think it was bad, it's perfect. It's just your skill issue."
Given that even if they aren't playing on helldive difficulty, they do need data from that difficulty to get the wider sense of, "this gun will rock in difficulties 1-4, be perfect in 5 and 6, and absolutely suck rock salt in 7-9." The Eruptor change probably rocks in difficulties 1 and 2. It's not viable on anything higher for crowd control. It's better for "brutality" against medium targets, but you can only crowd control if the enemies are almost literally climbing on each other. Yeah, there's a bit more lenience than I'm over exaggerating, but it's just there's a big difference how excellent a weapon does in lower difficulties and how it works in the chaos of higher difficulties. Lower mag and higher accuracy may worked for the Tenderizer in lower mob groups. It does squat in anything greater than 1 brood commander.
There's just so much that gets dropped on us where it's almost just absolute garbage that having 3,000 of us run (difficulty level of our choice) an eradicate mission, escort mission, and ICBM Launch mission with new gear, they'd know what kind of changes need to happen before release. Eradicate measures the viability of it in constant action. Escort measures if it's viable in a more support and/or "surgical" manner (working around objectives). ICBM Launch will test gear's longevity. Longevity as in if it can last 40 minute missions, how it deals with sudden changes of movement to extreme combat, if it can stealth and how well it does, and how well it holds out (last stand) with the extraction. There's some guns that are great/viable for the long run up until extraction (Diligence rifles, cross bow, and Plasma Punisher.)
If the community can clock your testing amount…. You got problems
The CEO and Twinbeard should be the only people communicating, since the others don’t seem to understand how to communicate in a respectful manner
In regards to the ammunition update issues... They'd need to update the models, because they've programmed their models to reflect actual volume. Rounds are rendered in the magazines. When you change an empty mag, it's actually empty. When you do a tactical reload, there are still rounds rendered in the discarded magazine. Ammunition is a physical object in the game. Therefore, you need a larger magazine to hold more ammunition. This is their mentality... Some aspects of this game are mind-blowingly accurate and others are mind-blowingly retar- ... questionable ... They put that much effort into considering how much ammunition a magazine can hold, but cut corners and make the amount of magazines you can hold arbitrary.
"Gotta make a bigger mag for more rounds... but you can carry 12 mags without a single pouch on your kit... make that 6 mags."
Honestly, I want the kits to change based on your primary. I loved how Ghost Recon did this. It makes it much more believable and fun to see your armor reflect your weapon playstyle.
6:13: They would "have" to redo the 3d model when changing magazine size because the devs care about "realism". Arrowhead is a swedish company, where military service is mandatory, so many of the devs are former military. When they reduced the mag size of the breaker, they actually changed the mag model. They modeled and animated a speed loader for the senator on empty. They animated different ways to reload weapons one handed when using the ballistic shield (Pinching the butt of the submachine guns between your cheek and shoulder; Doing a one handed press check on the redeemer; etc.). Most other devs are too lazy to do that kind of detailed animation/modeling, nevermind a working gun. So while gun nuts are probably the only ones that will notice that kind of thing, knowing that they are that detailed oriented, you can at least appreciate that they care about their game.
I was not aware of at all so thank you for letting me know. This makes sense and I completely understand.
Ah yes a game so realistic that were jacking ourselves with limb regenerating drugs and getting launched into the stratosphere after getting hit by a stray rocket.
Im all for gun autism but only if it adds flavour and also adds to the game play. Some of the bloody guns look ridiculous by real world standard but to their own arbitrary sense of realism it is good. But if thats going to get into the way of how the game is going to play, then i think compromises should be made.
These developers clearly don't know what they are doing, wasting time on minutiae nobody appreciates (yes nobody, it is a few pixels on the screen) because we're too busy avoiding enemies is silly and absurd in this type of game. This is not ARMA.
@@sillonbono3196 they just need their priority right. Most people including me have never stopped to see how many rounds are left in the magazine so having that as the reason for refusing to have certain changes is just dumb
Oh yeah, we're getting shot onto the planet in a giant bullet pod, but let's make shitty weapons for the sake of realism
It took me roughly 3 minutes to deduce that the tenderizer feels worse than the gun I had in my hands when I was a level 1 cadet. They either don't play test at all, or they do and it's for an afternoon on level 4 difficulty, and I don't know which is worse
The dev doesn't need massive amounts of QA testing. Just a simple chart comparison of weapons could tell them tons. Like how the tenderizer is simply just a worse version of the liberator. No testing needed to see that the same damage, the same armor pen, but lower mag size and slower fire rate makes a strictly worse weapon.
They have attention to detail in guns
Back when the breaker have a 16 round mag size it also has a different magazine compared to now with the 13 round mag size
If this was a pvp game I’d understand these nerfs, but this is a pve game, I can’t believe that this is what the devs focus on and I can’t help but relate this to simple office boredom
What if they did some kind of “squad proximity” buff where each helldiver your close wnough to gives you a buff
It's a game game against an ai. Weapons being over powered shouldn't matter. It's gotten to where level 4 difficulty is now what level 6 or 7 used to be. My whole squad died 6 times each last match I played, I used to not die once on that difficulty. Another warbond I'll be passing on due to feedback I've read. Why would I want a worse liberator and guns that bounce off half the enemies
You can't go wrong with having a PTS so I'm all for it. I hope they set up a sign in feature for it that's 'first come, first serve'. I'd love to give feedback to improve the weapon sandbox! ;)
Its not even a matter of if the enemies are spongy or not. Its literally how many get thrown at you. The best analogy is: which would you rather fight? A bear sized mouse or 100 mouse sized bears?
There is zero problem with mag size when youre taking on 4 or 5 enemies at once and a single mag can handle it. It becomes a problem when there are 20 or more and you use your entire reserves trying to clear it out with multiple reloads.
What could solve this? AoE stratagems but wait, the devs dont want us using them for that. Okay. What else? Support weapon? No, dont want us using that either because theyre "too powerful." So whats that leave us? Primaries with too small of a mag size or amount but also not doing enough damage per round to really get the job done because then primaries will outclass support weapons...
Do they not see the problem here? Theyve nerfd orbitals and eagles, theyve nerfd heavy support weapons and they nerf primaries but increase the number or enemies we engage with? Make it make sense.
PTR's as a testing ground for new weapons sounds great, but what would that actually look like in terms of how it informs the devs on what to adjust? Would it just be a bunch of players trying out new weapons on a progression locked planet and Arrowhead is simply collecting some kind of data that determines how OP or UP weapons were in mission clears - or are you guys picturing this process being feedback-based? Because I think we all know by now at the end of the day Arrowhead doesn't really give a damn about what players find fun, if anything, positive polls on new weapons would basically be interpreted by Arrowhead as "Needs a nerf" and any weapons we say suck will go into the "pre-balanced" bin
Arrow Head tried to create a game where players could have a lot of fun, but put someone in charge who wants the bugs and bots to have fun at our expense.
I'm starting to get the sense that there is a hands-off approach to management at Arrowhead, but it has now gotten so out of hand that the inmates are now running the asylum, so to speak. Like there are signs that departments are not communicating effectively between each other and that they also don't seem to have a unified vision going forward with people pusing their own personal ideas.
The issue is as it has always been, if you want to make your ammo clips realistic to life, the number of enemies per engagement need to be balanced to that limitation. Otherwise you need to eschew a bit of that realism to give players the ability to deal with the enemy count you want them to face.
The issue is not enemy tankiness, but volume. Especially when it comes to heavy/rocket devestators and Nursing/Bile Spewers.
Enemies are kinda bullet sponges, but not really. It is that weird spot between
Let me guess...Bile spewers?
@@markosimunic4770yes
It kinda has strange spot doesn't it. I fully believe it's good at where it is yet maybe they could potentially tune it down a slight hair.
The smaller enemies go down in a couple shots. But the next level up, medium enemies, take an entire mag most times. Kinda need some enemies between the two. This balance also makes explosive weapons straight up better than ballistic ones. Because they hit weakpoints harder.
stalkers are bullet sponges. use to be able to kill 1 with the defender 1 mag, now you cant
That's what Raid did..and it worked
And I can bet it will work here. I mean it's the best way to give feedback. Hopefully, it'll be available to everyone, whichever way they go I'll be happy to see it.
@@GlitchUnlimited as long as some of you CCs get to try it..I don't think it's necessary for us all
I think part of the reason for gun nerfs is because they want them to feel "real". This is why Pilestedt says you can't increase magazine size without changing the 3d model.
They don't test anything. Any leaked footage from inside the dev studio shows them playing with god mode on, infinite ammo, and increased movement speed. They are not testing the player experience of the items they are just testing it shoots without breaking.
They should do more upgrades that cost samples so we not maxed out as much, give each weapon like 3 upgrades each. 2 more mags, 50-100 more damage, faster fire rate. Also backpack upgrades. Rovers more ammo shield and jump faster charge up, shield deals lil damage?, spear rocket on back of jump pack? Rovers get missles?
I think nerfing enemies was needed. In some of the comments fornthe new warbond, people said that they wouldn't use the tenderizer because it doesn't have medium AP/Doesn't stagger or down brood commanders fast enough. And I can say for certain that if you don't have medium ap, dealing with spewers is a pain in the ass.
Personally I think we need more light enemies in the battlefield. Give people a real reason to consider weapons like the liberator or tenderiser.
Diff 7 should be baseline. It's the difficulty that super samples spawn therefore the diff game expects everyone eventually to play
They should revert most of the nerfs, have all the weapon stats as on release. Then let people play with them for a few months, then adjust. Because the enemies got tougher, we need original power back.
Im confused with the nerfing from also a lore perspective.
How the fuck is that the seaf engineers are getting away with constantly downgrading our weapons lmao?
Shouldnt they be constantly striving to make weapons better, especially those that are not getting enough use or are just not functioning as intended.
Ya that's what annoys me too.
probably budget things like cutting production cost
There is no need for a test server and the answer should be obvious because they have already used it before, though not for that exact purpose.
Simply release the weapon into the game and let players pick it up and use it.
We could find mechs before they were "in the game", they were a free extra stratagem we got on missions before they were unlocked. There are several ways they could let people test new weapons like the previous ones and just out on the maps. They could also make it less RNG and add a new ship upgrade like a RnD section that like the premium store cycles through a select number of weapons that we can equip, just tag them like 'Experimental' Slugger etc with the main RnD section having a disclaimer:
SUPER EARTH RnD needs YOUR help to make the FUTURE weapons of tomorrow!!!!1!!111!
Experimental weapons can and will rapidly change statistical values based on FIELD TESTING, RnD maintains ownership of all Experimental weapons.
Then we have a fun in game reason for testing weapons, why they might change and why we are not allowed to keep any of the OP versions. This way we also avoid the trap of having a test server with like only 1000 people bothering to use it, if its in the main game a lot of people will test things even if just for variety.
making it so bile titans bleed out if both their sacks are destroyed would go along way to making alot of medium armour pen weapons better. bots are just so much more fun because you actually have a lot more effective weapons against them. the AMR, laser cannon can deal with all enemy types you just need to know where to hit them (it's not easy but atleast you can use them if you're skilled enough and with positioning). the bile titans on the other hand are if you dont have some sort of heavy armour pen like the 500kg, recoilless, EAT, quasar and basically forces you into using them at higher difficulties because you're so restricted. they're actually just invincible since their open part doesn't actually kill them and doesn't bleed out like chargers.
at least with bots it's a trade off. do you want and much easier time dealing with armour? or do you want to sacrifice that for a more general use heavy weapon. bots you have choice for bugs it's can this kill a titan? if no it's just better to straight up not consider it most of the time.
I suspect most of the testing is around set parameters of what the gun is supposed to do. While there might be some subjective testing the bulk is most likely it has this effect and this power level, make sure it hits that.
I think getting the gun as close to what you want as possible and pivoting based on feedback is the best approach. Sadly a lot of this ends up in nerfs that don't go over well.
It doesn't take long to play test a weapon. Make it similar to another weapon, and give it higher fire rate with bigger mag, slightly less damage. Or lower fire rate, more damage, less mags. Play, and write down Time to Kill. Adjust accordingly and make weapon's for different play styles and loadouds
I don’t think they have even 1 QA person. It seems pretty obvious the devs themselves are doing testing. If they just had a few QA people we would be getting very different results. Hell, a single popular streamer figured out something is broken by himself just by playing the game. It doesn’t take thousands of people, although that is helpful too.
As much as I love the idea of the PTS, that one person asking the question with the framing of suggesting “content creators” have access isn’t the best example. Content creators might be half the reason why a lot of content gets nerfed because of how hyperbolic they frame things. Access to unreleased content would just result in a flood of videos with clickbait titles and thumbnails like- “NEW OP BROKEN LAUNCHER” or “THIS TURRET BREAKS THE GAME” even if it’s manipulative in how it’s presented in an optimal scenario, not recognizing the difference between conditional strength and overturning- causing the wrong impression from balance teams.
I have to admire that for once there is a community where the devs and the gamers are actually communicating and talking. Its like a beautiful simphony
they could very easily increase mag size with minimal model change by simply using a double stack style mag
The breaker shotgun got a mag nerf just revert that
So they can decrease the ammo count without changing the mag size but they can’t increase it !? The breaker for example
You dont need hundreds of hours of player data to balance a weapon. It's not hard to go into a game, fire a weapon at some bugs, and think "Hm.. maybe if this thing had a few more bullets in the mag it would feel more satisfying.. or if we keep the small magazine, what are we trading firepower for?"
Id love to see a controllable high caliber auto cannon (like the Auto cannon turret) just like there is allready a controllable Zwillings HMG.
They could do like a ‘Firing range’ for weapons using live targets
I don't get why the mag size on the gun model is the limiting factor. There's the suspension of disbelief. You really think people are going to care if a 45 round mag holds 55 rounds? I've seen movies where double barrel shotguns shoot 37 times before reloading, and wouldn't bat an eye at it.
Besides brood commanders, stalkers, berserkers, and striders, I haven’t really felt like enemies are super spongy. And the striders don’t even count because I recently learned their front counts as heavy armour. Whenever I loop around them or aim somewhere other than the heavy armour, they feel fine.
So there were posts on Reddit where people say difficulty 7 is where people go to chill.
The people who can solo difficulty 9, they go to difficulty 7 to chill.
There are nine difficulties in this game guys.
Why is it that you think difficulty 7 should be the easy chill spot for the average player who only plays a few hours a week and has kids distracting them while they're playing?
I'm of the opinion that difficulty 4 or 5 should be the community's perceived chill spot for these players.
This community repeatedly, repeatedly, ignores advice to take precise low cooldown stratagem like the eagle straffing run to take care of medium enemies like brood commanders or bile spewers.
They refused to listen when I tell them that taking a backpack and a support weapon only leaves them with two stratagem to actually handle threats in a wider area.
They frequently take duplicate stratagem which cuts out on their team's ability to handle situations in favor of individual preferences.
A constantly charge headlong into emy secured zones without assessing the situation or eliminating smaller outposts of threats nearby.
Look I'm not saying the weapons couldn't stand to use some buffs, but to say the weapons don't do any damage is complete bullshit.
To say the weapons aren't capable of handling the threats even on helldive is just wrong.
I solo all the goddamn time and it's easier than with other people because other people playing difficulty 9. Have no clue what the fuck they're doing.
I think "the 3d model would need to be updated" is a cop-out argument. The community isn't asking for an 8-round mag to go to 45 (I don't presume, althought that would be awesome!), but increasing round count by four or five wouldn't have that drastic of an affect on model continuity, imo. Regardless, be interesting to see how they try to address things.