Does a Tundra Need a Transmission Cooler? We Put It On the World's Toughest Towing Test to Find Out!
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- Опубликовано: 30 окт 2020
- ( www.transwest.com/frederick & www.genyhitch.com ) Does a Toyota Tundra Need a Transmission Cooler? We Put It On the World's Toughest Towing Test (the Ike Gauntlet) to Find Out!
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Ok Roman, don't manufacturers fly you out of Colorado, put you up in a hotel, and pay for your meals to attend press events in obvious exchange for a review? Surely you could understand how a viewer could find it hard to accept being 100% "independent". Many other channels are treated the same, and from my view, I don't even care, but this strange pitch in the middle of the video only comes off like you think your viewers are idiots.
WHY TFL?????? SERIOUSLY why do you make a review and only talk about the transmission temperature between the two. As viewers I'm sure a lot can agree with me that we would like to see the engine coolant temperatures as well. I mentioned this because I notice it in a lot of your videos you guys do not cover this. Who cares if you had to hit the brakes seven times versus nine times or whatever. People want to know the real stats like temperatures across the board. It would also be nice to know stuff like the RPMs. Having a simple second camera recording the instrument gauge cluster would be nice or Data logger hooked up to get a full stream of what the vehicle is doing and how it is performing when you do these types of tests. Just suggestions do what you want but for the love of God don't call it an honest review if you're not putting all the information out there to help people make an informed decision on what to buy.
Anytime transmission Temps are elevated it starts to break down the fluid. Imagine what that would have been on a hot day. Toyota can claim testing but reality is pulling loads requires extra cooling or just expect tranny failure...
@@stevesls6 they don’t have a brand that they favor though. Every brand they review has good and bad and they don’t ignore obvious problems with any vehicle they review. So how are they not reliable? If people actually watch these videos and these videos alone for purchasing advice that’s their fault
Temp test in fall ? try that again in July / August please. Big difference in temps, that's got to reduce life of the fluid and transmission over time.
I agree. I installed a big Hayden cooler on an older explorer. I drive in the mountains with a small 500lb load. In the summer, you can fry an egg on that cooler! Now, it would be just luke warm.
Don't buy it. Let someone else enjoy the long life of the vehicle. Worry more about your fuel pump.
240 is to hot for a auto transmission despite what Toyota says. If it was summer time imagine the temp!
It should be a comparison between a 2019-2021 Tundra and a 2018 or prior Tundra. Do it during the summer.
SoCalPaul
I’ll loan out my 2018 for a video 😉👍🏻
I agree, but Colorado has only two season's. Winter and July.
@@mhassouneh 2018 and prior had the cooler, 19+ is when it was removed.
This is the best idea so far
@@mhassouneh only reason is to save money and squeeze more profit.
The Toyota got pretty warm considering the weather and the fact that your test is under 10 minutes of driving time. What would the result be in warmer weather and a 100 miles of towing ??
BAD!
Spot on. The real test would be flat interstate speed on a hot day with headwind.
This was only 4 degrees below Toyota's safe limit. Too close. I'd bet that Ford, Ram and Gm have a similar safe limit but come nowhere near it. This is a very bad decision by Toyota.
Lmao the RUclips professionals are at it again. You ppl have obviously never driven up through the Eisenhower tunnel where they are. It's frickin steep as hell and towing that heavy trailer up it is way more grueling on the transmission than flat ground, regardless of outside ambient temps.
@@pryme2013 I do agree with what you're saying. But I do know of a man who lives in Montana and the area he lives in is "flat lands" he owned the Tundra with the cooler and one without. Towing the same amount of weight that he did weekly on his new tundra and it overheated on him and he had to stop on the side of the road
It nearly overheated in Colorado WINTER weather, Imagine in the summer? Or where I live in Arizona where the summers are 115°+
I'd say the transmission cooler is necessary.
You are correct. I have a 2020 and live here in AZ. Yesterday I took mine for a cruise and it was 76 degrees. Went through a mountain pass near globe and the pan temperature was 242 and the convertor temp was 256. That was unloaded and cruise set at speed limit. I will say it cooled down quickly but also heated up quickly.
@@jamesvaldez4093
I'm in Phoenix & often visit the higher elevations & I know that towing increases heat, plus in the summer its intensified. I'll stick w/ my Ram with trans cooler.
Are you kidding? What winter weather? That's almost colorado summer.
and 250 is max temp, once the fluid hits that I change the fluid. Never like seeing Trans temps above 230 regardless of its breaking points.
I have an 01 Sequoia, it's the opposite, mine has a very nice plate cooler that bypasses what americans use (oil to water cooler (faster warmup)), this is straight external.
A simple fundamental fact... heat kills transmissions. So keep your transmissions as cool as possible.
Toyota, do right by your customers and recall the trucks and install the cooler. For a company that prides itself on vehicle longevity it baffles me that they would do this. Love the Tundra, but this is not right.
I honestly don't see an issue with it. If you daily drive a vehicle it's going to be totally fine. Don't forget how tough this test is... If you tow HEAVY often then install your own aftermarket cooler. If the trans can't accept one, then consider that during vehicle purchase. Even if it can't accept one, just keep your fluid fresh, Oils perform much better nowadays and can take much more heat.
@@volvo09 ... while I agree with most of what you said, they should have left the cooler alone. Not having it just doesn’t make sense
I think these guys should have done a better wrap-up summary and maybe compared how these vehicles drove/felt. But I did take special notice of the part of the video @6:36 where the Toyota chief engineer wrote that the vehicle's transmission is designed to operate safely below 250 degrees. Heavy trailer, up steady grade at altitude and it operated "within specifications." Right? Am I missing something here?
@@volvo09 you started off by saying you don’t see the issue with it, the entirety of the rest of your reply illustrates the issue with it. This test was nit that tough at all. It was cool out and only lasted under 10 minutes. Hardly extreme.
@@jabroni6199 Exactly. I'd like to see them take this truck out with an 8k pound trailer like a camper or even the horse trailer on a dirt mountain road going 10 mph up actual steep grades for 30 minutes to an hour and see how well she does. Going highway speeds up a mountain on a cool day actually helps keep the transmission cooler because of the airflow. I have a 2018 GMC Sierra 3500 HD Crew Cab Long Bed SLE 4x4 6.0l gas with the 4.10 rear end and I tow my 34' 2005 Montana Fifth wheel that's around 13k pounds and 12 1/2' fee tall. I've gone up this exact pass and passes over in Montana and I don't think the transmission ever went over 210-215 while on the highway, granted my truck is too heavy and slow to maintain 60 mph. But after a couple 5-10 minutes of driving it on dirt roads with the camper finding places to go camping I've seen it as high as 225 before I stopped and let it cool down, because you get a lot more abuse running a small gear (1st or 2nd) with a lot of torque that creates heat to get up and down steep dirt roads at low speeds. One trick though, at least with my truck is if you put it in 4 low, then shift manually to 3rd gear you lock the torque converter and that helps reduce the heat (I'm not a mechanic so I don't know exactly why, but it works) but you can't go over 10 mph else you start over working the engine and drivetrain.
So yeah, I'd like to see some testing of 30 minutes of low speed on a dirt mountain road or a twisting paved road in the mountains where there's a lot of slowing down around bends and then accelerating again.
In conclusion, yes the Tundra was better with the cooler. Toyota just decided they could save money because most of their customers don't tow regularly...it was a bean-counter decision.
Exactly
I got an OBD2 scanner to test for myself. With nothing in my truck at all but a full tank of gas, my transmission hit 240. Just normal, calm highway and off ramp driving. Ambient of about 80°F. This is crazy. My dealer quoted me $1,200 to install a cooler. Shame on you Toyota.
Unfortunately they removed the coolers in 2019 and 2020 and still listed it on the sticker as having one. I have a 2020 and that is just flat wrong. I plan on filing a complaint with the California Consumer Protection Agency.
man, I sure love to hear from you if you're filing a complaint or not?
Settle down and trust the engineers. It's not an external cooler that you're used to seeing, but it's a heat exchanger on the trans.
Ok Karen lol
@@adrianhosein7698 best reply yet! Trust no one. History repeats itself. Toyota Engineers are sheep and will do whatever their corporate handlers tell them to to cut MFG costs.
@@PaulSter im sure its not the engineers, but the bean counters. While toyota does know how to make a fine vehicle, they are notorious for dropping features and items to save a few dollars. My 2013 tundra SR5, has numerous features that my 2014 SR5(yes, i own two) doesnt have because toyota decided to eliminate them altogether, or put them on higher models like the Limited or Platinum.
Hmm shouldn’t we try two different tundras one with an one without the coolers ? 🤔 just a thought. 😁
Also do it on one of the hottest days of the year.
Every Tundra model up to this year did. So it’s a fair comparison in a way
How would this truck handle a 100* day with the same load.
Read the title.
Realistically a trans cooler should be a part of a towing package... Why pay for it if you don't plan on using it?
Imo, tundra's temp got way too close to max in only 8 minutes. I would most certainly want an external cooling system.
It would be the first thing I'd add to a new Tundra. My 08 Had the factory tranny cooler never got about 220 degrees even in the middle of summer towing 6-8k up and down hills all day long.
Yep. And if you’re getting the oil that hot on a semi regular basis you can kiss the life of the oil goodbye and maybe the life of the transmission.
Max temp for the Aisin is actually about 301*F. So they didn't really get close. Toyota simply said that under 250 is no problem for that transmission and fluid that it has.
@@MrJcjet yea the transmission can definitely handle it. The problem is in the transmission fluid, they will degrade running that high. And ofc when the fluid degrades faster than normal it will effect the life of the transmission.
@@lamoona4269 Modern synthetic fluids can handle a lot higher temps. Where the mineral oils start breaking down at 250F, synthetics are often good to 400-500 and some up to more like 700F before they start to break down. There's not a lot of published data I'm aware of on Toyota WS fluid - but it's a modern synthetic fluid and should be able to handle those temps. They're designed for standard running temp of 210F IIRC. So it's a different situation from a traditional mineral oil fluid in something like a 4l80E that is supposed to run at 170 or 180F. No one would have a problem with a 4l80E running at 210F or 220F up a long hill. Time will tell if it's a problem. But it might be a long time.
Loved this video! I had a 2011 F150 5.0 that I pulled a 9k toy hauler (truck was rated for 9500lb) with through the hot summers and steep hills of northern AZ and transmission temps would occasionally see 265! Stressed me out! Temps are so important when towing so glad to see you guys cover this subject! Truck made the trip several times over a couple years and it never gave in but I always felt like every trip was gonna be the trip that something broke.
Aahh...everything seems to be getting back to normal. It's Saturday morning I'm sitting up in bed drinking my coffee and watching Andre and Ken run something up the Ike with snow on the ground. My usual Saturday routine. Keep it up fellas I appreciate you guys.
I drove a 2016 Toyota tundra 4x4 from chicago to earfalls Ontario with a 18 ft boat and fully loaded bed 15 hrs in the fall with no problems round trip was over 1600 miles good truck👍🎣🐟
We have a 2008 Tundra SR5 5.7 v8 with almost 300,000 miles and always pull about 5,000-6,000 lbs easily all over the U.S and haven't had any issues with the transmission or overheating. We installed an aftermarket cold air intake on it and I don't know if that helps but it sounds just like that TRDPro. I love the sound and it's so smooth. Such a beast! 🙌💪
Might be interesting to see how it does on a slower, windy road where it’s shifting more and in & out of lockup.
Good test. I’m not sure I agree with the conclusion. Owners are worried about long-term damage caused by towing at these temps over the course of ownership. The synthetic transmission fluid should be fine, it’s the internal parts that are the concern.
Oh and a lot of us don’t do affiliate marketing.
Hi Tim!
Interesting that American manufacturers do have transmission coolers and still have a higher fail rate in short and long term reliability when it comes to transmission....or just in general.
Thanks for the comment Tim. We did this story because of the work you did. Thanks for being first on this!
@@SimplyCarReviews But Toyota has only had the cooler missing for a couple years now. So they haven's seen the failures. I am not saying they will for sure. However, I have a Sequoia (same drivetrain) I tow with the vehicle nearly maxed out on GVW but not on trailer weight. It has the thermostatically controlled cooler and gauge on the dash. It stays at a steady temp all the time. Around town or fully loaded it doesn't matter. That's what you want for long term reliability and piece of mind. I am almost at 100,000 km and have only done oil's, filter's and 1 set of brakes at 86,000kms.
@@geoffmooregm I understand but other manufacturers include it and it still fails even in year 1. Before we jump to conclusions we should wait several years/miles to see if there are failures. I don't usually see Toyota transmissions failing even their CVT transmissions are 10x better than Nissan and the rest of the competition and I am not just saying this because I am a "bandwagon" fan of Toyota. I also own a Wrangler Rubicon and a Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi sport 4x4 which I love.
By far my favorite truck review channel including tfl offroad love that they will say what they enjoy and don't. No bs getting a ford ranger based on me renting one and the videos showing off the offroad capabilities.
Love my 2015 Tundra! I have had the transmission high temp warning go off backing 9,000lbs up a steep driveway. Was on the converter for a couple minutes so wasn’t surprised.
38 gallon fuel option has been available for the last couple of years
Hasn’t the tundra had that size tank for 4 or 5 years
38 gallon tank was standard in my 2016 crewmax.
As far as I know it has always been available. Toyota hasn't sent them a Tundra in a while, maybe they just forgot.
That's what they have to do when the average 13 and 14 miles per gallon in that thing
@@robertchapman4488 yup lol. Fords actually is the real winner. Best in class fuel economy and massive tank equals winning combo. I average 530 miles in mostly city driving in my F-150 w/3.5 eco and 3.55 rear end. Bet that number goes to 700 if I do all highway.
My 2020 cm, hit 249 in last month here in Atlanta stop and go traffic pulling my 1200 lbs aluminum trailer....
And that dosen't seam normal at all, also cringes me that my window sticker says I have a cooler when clearly nothing there...
Had I known this I'd gone different route!
@@KoolCordell educate yourself before stating that
@Air Force Juan apparently Toyota doesn't know that
@Air Force Juan 2020 tundra crewmax
@@jesusgomez14163 I believe they still run engine coolant through a heat exchanger on the transmission. The old unit use to have a thermostat housing that would open and send coolant to the cooler behind the grill that would keep the trans temp nice and cool.
@@geoffmooregm that's a fluid warmer
Glad to see this issue getting so much attention before the 2022 Tundra hits the market. Hopefully they'll rethink the need for a Trans cooler and put one in. If not, I'll be looking at other trucks.
They removed it on the Tacoma too in mid 2020. No, you aren't towing as much, but I would think it would be even more important in a smaller truck.
They basically never have transmission failures, maybe the domestics should look at what they're doing. Who cares if the trans runs warmer if it never breaks down.
@@MrCurt54661 there's only a certain range of temps in which oil and transmission fluid are optimal. Above that they begin to break down. That's when the damage starts. The Tundra also had a transmission cooler until recently and, as shown, it isn't doing great without it.
@@MrCurt54661 Maybe Toyota trucks haven't had trans failures because they have always had trans coolers from the factory.
@@RedWingsninetyone Bingo
This is the best place to go for great info on what to buy when you're in the market for a truck! Great work men!
I love my 09 tundra. Big v8 with tow package so 4.30 gears and transmission oil cooler. Not the most power, doesn’t get the best MPG but it’s a rock of a truck.
The transmission may be engineered to handle those temps, but that doesn't help if the transmission fluid is not.
Toyota knows their stuff. The transmission has 4 clutches and 4 brakes in it. For 2007 when introduced Toyota Aisen transmission was way ahead of its it's time.
@@bigk3024 like I said, none of that matters if the fluid heats up to the point it is breaking down. Doesn't matter is it's an Aisin, GM, Ford, Chrysler...
Synthetic transmission fluid is good to about 270°F. If I remember correctly.
@@craigquann I think I saw 275°for mobil 1 at some point, but I don't know they recommend it. We ended up adding a cooler to my bud's 2020 even though his sticker said it had one for the trans.
@@krashnpa yea. I did alot of reading for oil reviews etc, and my personal sierra WT has a in radiator cooler for my trans (4.3l v6) while the 5.3/6.2 v8's have an additional external trans cooler. So I was curious about the difference and what the temperature tolerance was. Even during heavy and slow off roading in summer heat on extreme grades and heavy mud/soft soil. I've never exceed ~100°c/210°F. And thats well within the 270-275°F for the fluid. Though I've never did any heavy towing with it. But apparently they have a thermostat that doesn't open until close to 220°F but again, not certain.
You should have a transmission cooler to be on the safe side because that was a short tow trip you did. All your heavy-duty trucks have them you should have them in your light duty too.
I agree. Better to be safe then sorry. Coolers are cheap compared to a new transmission.
I use a ScanGauge to monitor the trans temp on my 2010 Sequoia 5.7 (same engine and trans, but with a cooler). I have towed up some pretty steep grades for miles at a time through Virginia, N.C., PA., and NY. I usually hover around 200* on the flats and I've seen upwards of 215* on the climbs. The factory cooler definitely keeps it... cooler.
A trans cooler would definitely help keep temperature under control especially if climbing with a load at slow speed, I've experienced a temperature increase in one of my trucks but only climbing with a load at low speed, the factory trans cooler just couldn't keep up without the airflow.
Need to tow for 8 hours and take a sample and send it to a laboratory
DNA will show Akio Toyoda and Michael Sweers
The Scangauge is great. I had one in my 99 Dodge Ram and gave it to a friend when I got rid of the truck. Need to pickup another one. They're very useful.
The lifted trail version out done the trd. Nice easy calm no BS review is pleasant to watch.
Yeah...the Tundra needs a cooler. 246 is fine occasionally, but over time and repeat occurances that’s going to bake the fluid.
Considering they are sealed transmissions and lifetime fluid... I would say you right. Towing like this would be a bad idea if done frequently
I thought if the temp gets over 220 that the fluid is now cooking and breaking down, loosing its property’s.
@@k9leadstheway531 you can still change the fluid in a "sealed"transmission. It's just not as easy.
maybe we see the end of tundra reliability?
@@k9leadstheway531 wait a minute, that's a sealed transmission? What are they thinking?
I'm a proud Tundra owner here.
This was a great test gentlemen and provides a great visual proof that Toyota Tundra's years 2019-2021 which do not have a stock transmission cooler can still tow heavy weight. However, the video did also prove that without a transmission cooler, owners may see an increase in the transmission temperature and it would be RECOMMEND to install a 3rd part transmission cooler to keep the transmission temps cool.
Now...... For the Tundra owners whom do have a Tundra within 2019-2021, I would highly recommend you follow this process to keep your temps low:
1) Turn on tow/haul.
2) Shift the transmission to S4 on big inclines and this will keep the temps lower than 230-240.
As previously stated, it's highly recommended that you purchase an transmission cooler. The cost of a cooler is far cheaper than a transmission.
I don''t know that the driver pushed the "tow button"....if he did I missed it...but that would be an absolute must when towing.
Literally deciding between these two trucks right now based on how they tow. Super helpful!!
Former chevy Silverado owner here, no more Ford and ram fan.
And proudly 2018 Toyota Tundra SR5 owner appreciating the simplicity and reliability of it...I don't care about the new technology and gadgets from the other manufacturers.
My 2 cents
In Ford trucks the computer won’t engage the cooling fan for transmission temperature until temp reaches 242. The new fully synthetic fluids lubricate and protect better with heat. Toyota may have found that the fluid wasn’t getting hot enough or being overcooled with the auxiliary cooler.
The transmission has a thermostat to prevent "overcooling". If I remember right, Ford has an ATF radiator loop, as well as an auxiliary oil cooler on towing package pickups. The fan would likely already be running for engine coolant, so it is likely a failsafe.
@@daniels2761 Yes the Tundra has a thermostat in the transmission cooling system to bypass the tranny cooler in cold weather and when the truck is cold. That's how my 08 Tundra was setup. Never saw any transmission temps over 220 degrees even in the middle of 100 degree summer weather towing 6-8k. The transmission cooler is the key to a long transmission life.
Toyota has been cutting corners on their vehicles in recent years and of course stuff lasts long enough to get it out of warranty so the owner is stuck with the ridiculous repair bills.
This is a FAIL considering the cold outside ambient temps. Try a realistic test; which is summertime temps 100 or above in any of the long uphill passes in the desert pulling a camper.
At 11,000 feet the air density is less than 70% of sea level. I've driven this pass many times and its fairly steep and long with only 1 sweeping turn near the top that has a shallower grade than the rest of the hill. It's a tougher test than it looks but obviously during the summer it's much harder on the vehicle. I'm sure the tundra would have cooked the fluid and went into limp mode if it had any sense at all.
I’ve always wondered how a Tundra would react while towing. Thanks for the video
I have a tundra and believe me they need a transmission cooler!! I’d like to see them do this test in 90 plus degree weather and tow for an hour....
Toyota is confident with its reliability, towing with 250 transmission temp is normal to them but yes I agree to see this test again on the summer with 90 degree weather
Great video guys!
Thanks for addressing this one. I have a 19 tundra 5.7L V8. Was disappointed when I learned they eliminated the trans-cooler. I do tow a travel trailer plan on upgrading to approximately a 5k travel trailer. Thanks for pushing this truck to near max capacity and towing in the mountains. Guess time will tell if running the tundra with no trans cooler will effect long term reliability of the tundra 6 speed aisin trans.
You can add one super easy to install.
@@TheDiego695 I imagine you can get a used one at the junkyard from a 18 and have all the fac-tree mounting holes line up.
Just bought a used 2019 to tow with because it has the 38gal fuel tank. Doing my homework now to get a cooler installed. Think there is quite an aftermarket. No need to go to the junkyard!
244 max temp in cool weather. Transmission likely would have exceeded 250 in summer. Not sure why toyota removed cooler other than cost.
They know that nobody that buys a Toyota actually uses it for work.
It has transmission cooler next to the transmission, liquid to liquid. Ford has removed transmission cooler too on 2019 f150.
@T Rex , 2014-up on 4.6 it was removed. 2019-up 5.7 it was removed. I just installed mine.
Cost is the only reason they did it. Despite the damage the excessive heat will have on the transmission, Toyota knows the signs of that degradation and damage won't be an issue until after the 60k mile warranty. Like usual, Toyota and their devout fans will blame the owner -- both will either blame the owner for not properly maintain their Toyota or they will blame the owner for overloading their truck.
I saw the Factor55 locking hitch pin. Love that unit, I use it with all my towed devices.
it's funny i just watched the 2013 tundra video when you guys started making videos back in the day the tundra almost ran the same exact time from 9 years ago. a lot has changed on how y'all run this channel!
Looking at the body lines on the bed, the Toyota looks like the frame is flexing pulling that load.
They all look like that when they tow. Toyota says the frame flex is a “feature” for off reading, not a bug.
And you know Toyota is serious about Tundra’s off road capabilities since the don’t offer Any lockers or terrain management systems like their other trucks. 😉
I swear some of them look like they don’t go back into place after the tow, and look like a clapped out 80s cement crew work truck.
You got me there
Besides the issue of the transmission cooler being removed, what about the issue of the window sticker showing the truck has one? (I still have the sticker as well as many other owners)Toyota needs to clear this up before a law firm has to.
My last truck was a 2010 Tundra DC long bed. I bought it because I live in Tucson AZ and traveled in the heat of the summer and was towing. I purchased it because it had the cooler. I just traded it for a Ford F250 just because I needed more payload. I am disappointed in Toyota. The Tundra I owned was the best 1/2 ton I've ever owned.
My buddy has a 2011 Ford F150 3.5L ecoboost. When he tows his trailer in the heat of the summer it will over heat if he exceeds 60mph. Towing in cooler weather it does great!
I know the engineers say it doesn't need it but I will take all of the help I can get. Especially in the heat of the Arizona summers. Temperatures exceed 110 degrees in the summer in Arizona.
Also the transmission does NOT have a dip stick. It's a sealed transmission so you cannot check the fluid level or even check the color of the fluid
My dad uses the scan guage to monitor egts on his Cummins. Easy way to keep the turbo temps in check before you shut down. It is an awesome tool to get info that manufacturers should give you but don't.
Heat kills. If you're working it over time and want longevity, put a cooler on it.
@James M it’s just simple facts that running fluid up near its max without a good method of dissipating the heat will wear transmission components prematurely. I’d say especially if you tow often. Not sure how McDonald’s factors into that.
You’re absolutely CORRECT. Since longevity is directly proportionate to operating temperature their explanation of it being fine that hot is pure bullshit. Sure it’ll be fine for a long while but someone later is going to suffer the consequences if a prior owner towed a fair amount.
The number 1 killer of transmissions is heat, let’s remove the cooler.
Dumb move for a major company.
Best comment on here. Its common sense.
you are not engineers... if its designed to run within those temperature parameters then its fine and without additional cooler lines its more reliable as with no extra fittings and joints it wont have leaks...... Id have way more trust in Toyota's engineers than any fool at GM
@@SantanKGhey1234 If I told you wolverines make good house pets it doesn't mean I'm right. I'll keep my transmission cool and you can roast yours, I don't care
@@SkeetMcRibb your IQ is low but hey, thats 👌 ok
As a Tundra owner I gotta say thanks for the work you did on this. On another note. My second choice for a truck is definitely a silverado! Great job
You know, I was torn between a Tacoma and a Silverado. I really wanted to buy the Tacoma, but the drivers seat was so uncomfortable, just sitting inside it in the showroom made my legs and back hurt. And, I remembered Toyota's 6 speed transmission software from hell. I call the the "hunter" transmission. They just seemed to hunt between 4th, 5th and 6th gears all day long. Silverado's have been good to me. My last two had 250,000 miles plus on them and still kicking. I went with the Silverado LD. Screw that new body style lol. The Tundra....erh...just not a good looking truck. I couldn't bring myself to make payments on something that I couldn't stand to look at (Same with the 2020 Silverado).
Transmission fluid temperature affects the fluid viscosity as it heats up. Do shear resistance is important. Having a cooler helps with those conditions.
I ALMOST purchased a Tundra in 2018 but the poor fuel mileage, no locker diff and 1360lb payload really dont cut it for work. I opted for a 2018 GMC with a 5.3L Now we have 24,000 trouble free miles, 22mpg and 1864# payload are hard to beat. Also on the GMC diff you have a Dana locker rear end. Without a 4x4 a rear end locker is a MUST.
All f150s pretty much have the diff locker
@@alexmartin1430
And F150's have a great payload capacity. I didn't want all that turbo stuff. I like the 5.0L
@@RandalColling I agree. I've thought about trading up lately I have a 17 f150. I'm not brand loyal I just usually go with the best bang for my buck. These new half tons are putting down numbers heavy duty trucks did 10 years ago. Crazy
I had a 2017 Crewmax for 7 years. I almost did not buy because of the non-locker. Glad I went with it. They use the brakes to control the tires from needless spinning. System worked great in mud or snow the whole time I had the truck. I only moved up to 3/4 ton Ford because I pull 10,000 - 11,000 lbs about 50% of the time.. BTW I make sure I got the electric locker on the F250.
While the axle is Dana the actual G80 locking differential is made by Eaton
I would like to have seen the OBD temperature display used on the Tundra, used on the Chevy. It would be interesting to see if there was any discrepancy between it and the gauge in the instrument cluster.
Reads off the same canbus value
I drove my 2008 Tundra SR5 TRD Off road while towing 8,000 lbs from South Carolina across America through Death Valley California in July last year and back. Not sure if mine is even equipped with a transmission cooler but it never had not even the slightest issue during the trip. It was as sure as the sunrise.
They all have it before 2019
Thank you for a really good comparison and review! One way to look at this is that the Chevy had a trans cooler and did only 30 degrees cooler than the Tundra with no cooler at all. What would the temp be in the Chevy without a cooler. Also, what really is the optimum trans temp?
Cooler temp or not, the Chevy had MINIMAL real world fuel mileage advantage and as many brake applications with more gears. Advantage? don't know...
All i gotta say id I have a 17 Tunda and necessary or not, like the fact I have a coola.
This test should have been done in the middle of the summer. Of coarse its going to do good in 20 degree weather.
Ambient temperature was around 60 F degrees that day.
I wouldn’t say 246 degrees is good?
@@TFLtruck Try az heat at 115 F, or Calif 108F summertime and see where the trans temps go, 280+
@@TFLtruck Please redo this test in the summer time when temps are exceeding 100 degrees
@@taurs45acp Where they were, summer temps go maybe 75F tops.
It has a heat exchanger (cooler) on the transmission similar to what Ford is using with the 10 speed F150s and 2017+ Super Duty’s.
I would be interested to see a 2018+ F-150 tested to capture the transmission temperature of a truck that uses a heat exchanger like the 2019+ Tundras have. The Ford forums have plenty of F150 owners acknowledging higher transmission temps of trucks with the 10 speed vs trucks with the 6 speed (had front mounted auxiliary transmission cooler).
Ford only includes an auxiliary transmission cooler on the NA V6/6 speed and Raptor.
From Fords website:
Auxiliary transmission oil cooler (Included on 3.3L V6 PFDI engine (99B) and Raptor only)
The tundra will come with a separate trans cooler as an option if not it will be included in the radiator as a cooler if that isn’t offered then it runs coolant lines to the transmission to cool it so it will always have a cooler obviously nothing is better than a separate cooler but this does have a cooler by using coolant lines to the transmission
2019 up, NO IT DOESN'T
My 2013 Crewmax has both a transmission gauge and cooler...so, sticking to my truck! 😎👍
I'm sure they'll issue a recall and add a trans cooler. In the summer and longer tows/hills it'll definitely overheat. Glad I mostly tow snowmobiles in the winter with my 2020 tundra.....
Don't hold your breath for a recall, its a way they could save money by not developing a radiator style cooler for a truck that wont' be produced 2022. They buyer that tows suffers, no one else.
NEW TFLTruck!!! WOOOOOO!!!
Dudes I just towed a 9000 pound trailer coast to coast (~3500 miles), with my 2017 tundra, and had absolutely no issues. All through the drive, the only place where I felt that I have a trailer behind me, is when pulling up the steep portions of rockies. This baby can pull a lot more than what Toyota advertises.
Loving my 2015 tundra. Always towing and never a problem. 84,000 on her.
Had that 8 miles been 10 miles how would it have done? Above 250?
Also it was cold outside, what if it's 93°
Since Toyota has no external transmission cooler at all, how many quarts of fluid does it hold? How many quarts does the Chevy hold? The temperature difference was quite a bit.
Silverado 8 speed holds 11.4
Silverado 10 speed holds 12.0
Tundra without cooler holds 11.7
Tundra with cooler holds 12.3 quarts:
@@rickloc4309 great information on this. Thanks for posting it!
So there’s not much difference in fluid capacities which would explain the much higher temps for the Toyota. If there are any provisions to add a cooler, I would do it in heartbeat!
Try that with the tundra in 100+ degree temps. Come on down here to Texas and try it in mid summer. We have had several people hauling travel trailers at 7 and 8k lbs have thier transmissions over heat. Infact in mid summer here in Texas my 2020 tundra transmission hits almost 240 degrees under normal driving conditions unloaded with no trailer. It definitely needs an external cooler
I'll make 2 points. 1) what did Toyota change in the design of this transmission versus the older trucks (with the same transmission part number) that negates the need for an external cooler? 2) If you ask ANY transmission fluid manufacturer, they will tell you that 246F is too high for your tow (short duration, cool temperature, higher speed). Full stop and without exception. Including Idemitsu, who made Toyota's OEM WS fluid for many years and may still do.
Just had 5.29 Nitro Gears installed on my 2019 Tundra. It has a 2.5” lift and running 35” tires. With this setup I’m able to run the tire size I want, my transmission temp has stayed around 200 degrees pulling my 6500 pound camper in varying conditions, and in everyday driving it stays in overdrive gears a lot longer.
Did you get the speedo calibrated?
@@6.2Slomaro Speedometer reads 4 mph slow, haven’t gotten around to purchasing the calibrator yet.
@@stephensmith745 that’s interesting. What’s your mpg difference from stock gear to 5.29?
@@6.2Slomaro Highway and city mixed it’s pretty steady at 15 MPG which isn’t bad turning 35s.
@@stephensmith745 that’s pretty good. So what was the mpg with stock gears?
I’ll stick to my external trans cooler. I never see temps over 180. And that’s with a maxed trailer
I purchased a 2008 Toyota tundra limited 4WD 5.7 and towed a 10000 pound bumper pull RV throughout the summer. Never did have a problem. I just rolled over 200,000 and no problems whatsoever. I just drive it like hell and do the minor maintenance. Best truck ever had.
My 2017 pulls in the hot desert sun no issues, love that 5.7 V8!!!
Another disappointment in Toyota, 250 degrees is way to hot for longevity, most definitely needs a cooler. And its not even hot outside, jeez.
Lets be real now, when do you ever see a tundra transmission fail or toyota in general? Coming from a GM technician I see 6 speeds and 8 speeds fail all the time. Curious how the new 10 speeds will do in the long run.
@@KhmerBoy82297 good point
You havent seen any fail because this changed just happened in 2019. Vehicles dont have enough miles on them yet to see if there will be problems. The seals in any transmission degrade at those temps.
@@highpro1394 Exactly
@@highpro1394 you are correct that they did away the cooler in 2019. with the dependability that toyotas give with there vehicles i doubt anyone would ever have any issues and if they do they would do what they need to do to satisfy there consumer. We'll just have to wait to see how the trans holds up in the future!
In all my years of being a Toyota technician I've only ever seen 2 failed tundra transmissions and both times were from extreme abuse, not from hard use. I can't say the same for the domestics, when I worked at a gm dealer there was always at least one transmission torn down in ther shop.
Did the older trucks have a transmission cooler? love Toyotas but that's pretty high temps. if i understood correctly there's not even a regular style cooler in the radiator on the Toyota?
@@benson098123 there is a cooler on the side of the transmission, not a tradition radiator style of cooler on the 07 and newer models. I wasn't sure if you were referring to the first generation of tundras though some of them had the radiator style of cooler if they had a tow package.
There is NO transmission cooler on the 2019 and newer Toyota Tundras. Not in the radiator OR an auxiliary cooler in front of the radiator. There is only a warmer on the side of the transmission. I own a 2019 Tundra and couldn’t believe that it didn’t at least have a cooler in the radiator until I crawled all over it after first hearing about this issue last year. My transmission temperature was at 240 this past summer while pulling my 4500 lbs boat with approximately 800 lbs of gear in the bed through the hills of eastern Kentucky with the tow/haul mode on and in drive. On the way home, I used the tow/haul mode AND S4 and the transmission temperature maxed out at 222. Still pretty warm IMO!
I bet those GM transmissions were 4L60E transmissions. I went through 5 in my 97 Suburban before I retired it in 2009 with 250000+ miles on it. Never again will I get a GM vehicle
Gm sells about as many trucks in one month as Toyota does in a year so Statistically gm should have about 8 to 12 times as many breakdowns as toyota if they were equal in reliability. Ford is the king of trucks and should have more breakdowns than any truck especially considering every job site is full of fords idling all day and getting abused.
I have a 19 tundra trd pro and pulled our small camper from Tn. to Co. In fact, into Silverton and my transmission warning temp came on several times both out there and back...Camper weighs like 1800 lbs
A couple things, for starters, this test should have been done in the summer and maybe on a combination of roads including the Ike of course. Second, this test should have been between the 2021 Tundra, a 2018 or 17 Tundra (the last year for the auxiliary trans cooler) and possibly even with an older Tundra (2012 or older with the original design auxiliary trans cooler). Comparing between the brands for this specific test doesn’t really prove much to me.
My opinion, yes the Tundra needs that auxiliary cooler. My 2017 Tundra drags around a 30’ Grand Design camper and the hottest I’ve seen the trans temps get is 213°F in the summer. It pulls good for a half ton truck.
I think the trans temp would be the last of my problems compared to that tundra frame sag. Any more weight and it would have a dump bed feature.
I saw that too.
That's only the frame flexing....can't be that big of a deal
I’m curious to know what size tires are on the truck?
IMO it should be standard to have a transmission oil cooler on any type of towing vehicle!
The further I got into watching this, it’s safe to say that Toyota needs to upgrade the transmission with a few extra gears (4)!
275/65r18
I had an 07 5.7 tundra and mine had a transmission cooler, it was standard since it tows 10k. Didn’t know they stopped installing them, made pulling my old toy hauler with ease
Wow !! That 5.7 sounds excellent !!
What i thought was crazy how the Toyota coolant temp was only 197 during the pull up that hill. I know in my old Ram 1500 my coolant Temps would hit north of 240 when pulling hard
What video did you watch? The tundra hit 246 degrees.
@@pauliewalnuts240 Hes talking about engine coolant temp not transmission
@@Intentsrig thanks Brian. I was like what is he talking about i said coolant temp
@@mkaestn I know 197 is normal and wasn't claiming it was too high or anything. I was surprised how low it stayed considering the stress the truck was under
@@TheRamGuy Probably because it wasn't helping cool the transmission haha
Toyota, put the damn trans cooler back on the Tundra so I don’t have to listen to all this outrage anymore. Did you really think no one would notice it was missing. We love our trucks Toyota.....SMARTEN UP! Live by your own words.....”Overbuilt”.
Heat kills, but Toyota did their studies. They knew that any problem that would arise would be out of warranty.... Respect to the Chevy 5.3, I once felt that it was too sluggish compared to the Toyota 5.7
Planned obselescence, nothing new, Toyota is now going the way of Chev and Ford and Ddoge. Transmissions towing in extreme heat will not last the life of the engine like they have in the past.
I really like your Trailer videos.
What I allways wonder with that Cimmaron Trailer is how much this "Spoiler"-thing at the back helps with fuel milage at highway speeds. I think it works by pulling some air in the low density area at the back of the trailer to reduce aerodynamic drag.
If this spoiler is detachable it would be interesting to see the same truck, same load on your highwas fuel economy test to see the difference. One time with and one time without this spoiler.
I think the spoiler on the trailer is designed to reduce the build up of debris on the back of the trailer.
Yes it does need a cooler. Tow heavy loads in the summer and the fluid will eventually break down.
Is it just my eyes or does it look like the tundra's frame is bending at 2:54.
I noticed that too... it looked like the frame was bending between the bed and cab.
The Bed looks tweaked for sure, but I think it is an optical illusion with the sunlight. If you take a screenshot and zoom in you can see the Frame is parallel with the ground. What looks really suspect to me is the Gap at the base of the Cab and the Bed, Definitely looks to be increased from weight of trailer.
Still though the shadows and light and Bed Design right there are not helping really see what is going on...
I saw that too and was going to point it out. Same at 5:19 and 13:28.
Just came to the comments to see if anyone else noticed... This plus the trans cooler delete has me looking at other trucks
It's bending pretty bad. I remember watching a review of the Tundra, and when the reviewers tested it, it dam near looked like the truck was twerking. Seems to be a poorly made/engineered truck.
The thing that that gets me about the tundra is if you just want to check your fluid and make sure it’s not burnt up you can’t the transmission is a sealed unit. At least with ford and not sure about Chevy you can check the fluid with the little dipstick under the truck.
If I planned on towing a load like this for this long, I'd definitely have an upgraded trans cooler regardless of brand truck. Cheap investment for sure.
do a 2-3 hr towing test imo. that test is so short itll hardly prove anything.
Interesting test! I still think the Toyota need a trans cooler though. The trans may be designed to handle it, but temps like that shorten the life of the oil.....
My guess is everything is fine....until the end of the warranty then it's a big middle finger from Toyota.
The fluid, seals, frictions, internal solenoids -- all those components are negatively affected by this huge temperature extreme. 246F is an insane temp that ages everything and causes excessive degradation.
Yes ! My buddies tundra got so hot just pulling a small trailer with a Atv going up 9 k on a hunting trip ,it actually stopped working until it cooled down ! 2014 Tundra .
Good video TFL, as always. One question I have is if Toyota recertified the Tundra to J2807 after removing the trans cooler, and if not, why didn’t they? One critique I have for the video is that you all didn’t remove the Trail Boss’s rooftop tent from the bed. You all showed in a different video that it hurts highway mpg quite badly. I think having it there made the Trail Boss work even harder on the Ike than normal. If it wasn’t there, maybe Andre would have won the bet.
Yes it needs a transmission cooler
Should bring it to AZ. Especially during the summer and tow with the tundra. C how hot it gets down here
My 2015 GMC 1500 with the 6 speed has a 180 transmission thermostat. When plowing it get up to 225 and I can feel it pull power. So this summer I pulled the stat out and the transmission temps dropped to 140 while cruising and 160 in traffic. Ill find out soon enough how it performs this winter. I'm sure GM did this for fuel mileage since older 6 speeds don't have a thermostat.
Awesome video! I personally think that it’s good enough for what it’s supposed to do. Most people that buy a TRD or a Trail Boss are going to be doing minimal towing. We buy them for the off-road capabilities. If I needed a truck that would be a capable workhorse I would not buy a TRD or a trail boss. My current SR5 Crewmax Tundra has a 10,500 lbs towing capacity. My TRD Pro that’s coming in February only tows 9200 lbs. For me it won’t make much of a difference. I have a boat and a single axle trailer that I tow occasionally. But I can guarantee you that if I planned on towing horse trailers, landscaping materials, or any kind of equipment for commercial work I would not trade down to a TRD or a Trail Boss.
10,500 lbs towing capacity. but how much of the payload?
@@AdventuraHighway31 on the SR5 it’s about 1700. On the TRD Pro it’s about 1600.
@@loytowse8140 Thanks👍
I’d like to see this tested on the climb that overheated the Ford. Given how hot it got I suspect more weight and/or a hotter day will overheat the trans.
Toyota can say whatever they want but this is cost cutting plain and simple and foolish cost cutting at that.
@The Fast Lane Truck. After doing this test and talking with the Toyota Engineer would you guys personally own a Tundra 2019 and up without a transmission cooler? If it was your own money and you were planning to own it outside of warranty period?
I would ever own any Toyota for any reason. Buy from an American company
@@kenhughes9437 in this day and age of supply chain and manufacturing, you must mean “buy from a company founded in America” which doesn’t necessarily align with whether a company is American in its global footprint and production operations.
@@kenhughes9437 ya buy American with all foreign parts. No such thing as all American built vehicles anymore
@@kenhughes9437 Tundra has more American parts than any of the small 3.
@@warhmonger Not these days... the only thing Toyota sources from the US for their trucks is the old 5.7. The domestic parts content of the Tundra has dropped 20% over the last decade and the Tacoma is a Mexican import these days.
Thank you for sharing !
You guys should do these transmission temp tests with the hd trucks also. Over the last couple of years of watching you guys test the big 3 hd trucks, Ford's trucks seem to run hot trans temps vs GM/Ram. The Ford's seem to average 226°- 240°, GM/Ram average 180°- 185° when towing heavy. Talking about the diesels btw