GM's intent was not to retain oil in the pickup tube for priming. Oil trapped in the pickup tube is a byproduct of the use of a weld nut, used to allow for proper thread engagement on the drain plug to avoid stripping the threads, but, directed inwards as to not make the drain plug a low point on the pan. This results in a pool of oil at the bottom of the sump, and thus a pickup tube will retain additional contaminated oil. We've measured the time-to-pressurization with both the stock and Banks pans. In both cases, the time is negligible. Additionally, when the engine manufacturer first fires the engine, there is no oil in the pickup tube. They rely on residual oil applied during the build phase. This oil remains on the bearing surfaces for quite some time. In other words, even if the oil or pan change takes two days, there is a protective film remaining. There is no risk of dry-firing the engine. More harm is caused by dirty oil at the bottom of the sump than the few milliseconds that it takes oil to travel up the tube. Where the oil sits in the pan and pickup tube in relation to the pump before, during, and after start-up, was not left to guesswork. The "trapped condition" of the oil in the pickup tube on the stock pan is actually a temporary condition due to the wetted oil pump gears, but eventually, the static level in the stock pan and pickup will reach an equilibrium to one another as the oil pump is not an absolute perfect seal. The equilibrium is overshadowed by the fact that the oil is still trapped due to the weld nut anyway, and cannot be drained. It just so happens that the faster you drain the oil on a stock pan after turning the engine off, the more oil you'll have trapped in the pickup tube. Additionally, the reverse is true. The pressure of the total oil capacity when re-filling the system with a Banks pan means oil can be forced up into the pickup tube prior to start up, as air can be pushed back up through the oil pump gears. Hundreds of hours of tests were performed during the development of the JLTV oiling system, which shares geometry with the pan in this video. A similar pan design can be found in more than 30,000 JLTV (Joint Light Tactical Vehicles) powered by Banks D866T Duramax L5P-based engines, all with zero oil pressurization issues in the field. We would have liked to have shared video footage of the oil level and pressurization tests. You've never seen so many clear graduated tubes running in and out of an engine before. Unfortunately, this footage is classified.
@@bankspower Thanks for clarifying. When viewers and customers are used to in-depth, data-rich presentations as seen with the differential cover, the "old oil bad" just feels more marketing driven than data driven. I would have loved to see a demonstration on the road or dyno where the truck is derating due to oil temperature with the stock pan compared to the Banks pan. I didn't even know that was a thing before this video, so I did learn something, but actually seeing it would have been even better.
I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard that many shops are simply vacuuming oil out of the pan through the dipstick tube via small suction hose these days. If that's the case (removing vs draining the oil), is that not a simple solution to this problem?
I'm already a fan of Banks, but seeing these in depth videos about the design and thought process that goes into your products always blows me away. Banks Engineering is the embodiment of 110%. At least compared to the rest of the industry.
@@bradzimmerman3171 Dmax is owned by General Motors with GM/DMAX owning 100% of the intellectual property on the L5P. Duramax is a past venture for Isuzu for a number of years now. Even better, Duramax engines are built right here at home in Brookville and Moraine, OH
Ya I'm not concerned at all about 10% or less residual. It's diluted each change and the filter will catch the particulate. Weird to see this from banks honestly
The reality is you can never drain every drop of oil from all engines, and that's OK. Duramax engineers prioritized a drain plug hole with more threads so it's less likely to strip, and a pickup tube that stays submerged so there are no dry starts. Just change your oil according to the schedule and stop worrying about it. Spend money on something else instead.
I bet gale is working on a system that separate the two components so you can more easily work on the trucks. Let’s be real though bro, he’s resigning a cradle that’ll take some time
I believe Mag-Hytec makes a replacement lower oil pan for the 6.7 powerstroke that moves the drain plug vertical to allow more oil to drain and it also adds two quarts bringing the capacity up to 15 quarts, equal to the old 7.3.
Videos like this always catch my attention and interest simply due to the sheer knowledge of the topics being discussed/covered/spoken about and the type of understanding you guys have where you’re able to explain it all in simple terms so anyone off the street can understand what you’re talking about. These types of products and videos also make me wish two things: 1) That you guys at Banks would make these fluid cooling products for all the engines you’ve made parts for over the years. 2) That y’all would just hurry up and produce your own vehicles from the ground up that’re maximized for performance, longevity, and ease of maintenance for the civilian market. Lord knows y’all would make a better off-the-line product then what the OEM’s have been putting out for a good while now.
My powersmoke will have maybe double this at any given time.. that's why I always do 2 or sometimes 3 oil changes every year and I have a custom filter set up which has a much finer micron rating with a better flow rating as well. Not to mention an air to oil cooler that's 5 times larger than the oem water to oil cooler. My truck has never been happier when I made these and other custom upgrades years ago and I'm pushing 430xxx + oh.. and virtually no blow by still 👌🏼
A 7.3 powerstroke with the HEUI injection system holds at least a quart of oil between the HPOP and the passages in the heads and with good, normal maintenance don't seem to have any problems going a half million miles or more.
When I had my 99 7.3 which I had for 20 years. I would remove the allen bolt on top of the pump and suck what ever oil I could If I remember correctly it was roughly 22 oz. So I would put whatever I sucked out back in with fresh oil and continue with my oil change 😇😊😎
@ericduran9994 you've probably got that much more in the oil galleries in the head and block. I've seen some rather heated discussions on whether drain the hpop or not.
I mean, yeah there's a bit of old oil in the engine, but there's always dirty oil stuck in the oil galleys, the oil cooler, etc, too. If you do regular oil changes, this is a total non-issue, as that dirty oil will be immediately diluted by all the fresh oil. This is a solution looking for a problem.
Yeah I'm a bit confused. The oil gets mixed up every time the vehicle is started and driven, and then even if some residual remains it'll mix with fresh oil at every oil change. May not be ideal, but doesnt sound like much of a problem. The Banks piece does look nice having additional quantity and cooling ability, but I think most typical owners will not benefit from it.
Yup. The 7.3 Powerstroke holds a lot more old oil and is known for great longevity, that is evidence that leftover oil is a non-issue. I remember working trucks that had an on-board oil changer that changed about 1/10 of the oil as they were running, that was enough for the manufacturer to allow for almost doubling the miles between oil changes. I was working at an International dealership but I think those trucks had Cat engines, not sure.
The issue isn't necessarily old oil though. If there is foreign material in the oil, the stuff that is heavier will sink to the bottom where it won't get drained out. In every single engine you'll have a measurable amount of oil left in after a simple oil change. I've seen engines sit for years without an oil pan and they still have oil dripping out
@@xlegit13And that real heavy stuff will sit there in perpetuity... if it does happen to get picked up, it's getting trapped in the filter. There's no real issue.
Crazy that y'all just discovered the pan holds a quart every change, this has been common knowledge basically since the Duramax released. But it's awesome that y'all have a solution! I'll have to grab it!
7.3 Powerstroke holds 3 quarts of oil when you just drain the oil pan. I suck out the high pressure oil reservour and fill it, put the cap plug on and run the engine 2- 3 minutes. I do that 3 times to help get most of the old oil out. I also have a FS2500 oil bypass filter installed to keep the oil clean. Every diesel needs an oil bypass filter installed with egr because that puts alot of soot in the engine oil.
You demonstrated a good reason why the oil filter should be removed while the oil pan plug is out. It allows the trapped oil to drain into the oil pan. I've seen this demonstrated numerous times. I thought most mechanics realized this. Remove the drain plug, remove the filter, then install the plug.
Hands down, the best engineered products for your truck. My '18 Duramax got totalled, but it had Banks products on it. The insurance company gave me extra credit for those upgrades; absolutely incredible! I sure miss my '18. And you can bet these items would have been on it, had they been available when I owned it.
I’ve been using all this diesel knowledge on my wrx, I lowered the air turbulence feeding my engine. Matched air in to air out with a custom exhaust, and I let my stock ecu just relearn the air fuel ratio. I went from 9.8l/100km To about 8l/100km
Wouldn't gm be keeping the pickup tube submerged by design to minimize the no oil pressure condition when the engine is started after an oil change? Won't the pickup tube be full of air for a short time, and won't the oil pump have to pump that air through the lubrication system? Did you guys verify how long the engine sees no oil pressure? I'd be interested in that data.
After an oil change, and the Banks pan is installed, oil fills the pickup tube as it seeks equilibrium. This happens quickly. The engine is never starved of oil. We've measured the time-to-pressurization. Where the oil sits in the pan and pickup tube in relation to the pump before, during, and after start-up, was not left to guesswork. Hundreds of hours of tests were performed during the development of the JLTV oiling system, which shares geometry with the pan in this video. This pan design can be found in more than 30,000 JLTV (Joint Light Tactical Vehicles) powered by Duramax L5P engines.
@@bankspower Would you mind sharing the time-to-pressurization data with the stock pan and the Banks pan? It just seems as though the stock pan was designed to hold back enough oil to keep the bottom of the pickup tube covered and seems as though it was done intentionally.
Sweet! Great job, Banks Power! And very good quality video as well. The only hiccup in it is the dropping in of "PPE" without any introduction. After a while, you explained what PPE is and does, but for a little while, I was lost.
great video. I have not usually paid much attention to different aftermarket parts, but am now. I have a 2008 ram 3500 with the Cummins, which i love. After my son ( a technician at a local bmw mini dealership) sent me the info about the heater element issues, i purchased the monster intake. Recently, i had a gc for a local parts store, and wanting to use it, i purchased a k&n oil filter, big mistake. I installed it as instructed , and a few days later i crawled under my truck and noticed a bit of oil on the filter bottom. Thinking maybe this was risidual from filling the filter prior to install, i wiped it and forgot it. A couple weeks later i noticed the same, but went and bought an oem filter from a local dodge dealership. No issues since. I believe the internal area by the threads protrudes too high towards the top edge , thus contacting part of the engine beside the threaded nipple, and stopping the seal from sealing. Lesson learned for me. With aftermarket parts, some are fine, but do research when able. Anyone else had this issue?
I'm less concerned about all that oil because if you change it on Jack stands, more oil will flow to the drain leaving a lot less behind. Vacuum draining the oil would also work. I also want to see Ford and Cummins because I bet they have similar issues too. It's the cooling aspects that are the bigger deal here.
Eric, your lookin' good! You and Gale are very lucky to have each other- and an awesome engineering team as well. This is what you get from building a ton or three of these engines for the USG, and built them to a higher spec- a ton of knowledge and experience few others can match. You have freely reached beyond "conventional wisdom" and looked at aerospace developments like metallurgies and the science of heat. The down side, as I see it, is the baseball you just hit out of the park is gone- the upside is you can afford a new one!
mechanic here. when resealing any oil pan or cover. that fat bead of sealer is way too much. i apply it a little at a time and spread it along the surface. this stops it from squeezing out. no other covers on engines have a groove like that. the film of silicone should only be about .020-.030 thick layer.
In order to keep the draining oil stream from eventually landing on my skid plate I change my oil with the front elevated 6-10 inches (on a slanted driveway plus up on 6x8 blocks). Pretty sure that reduces the residual by something significant. But as others have mentioned, changing your oil and filter regularly is all that is really needed.
Well impressed, so much detail in this video, showing off features that matter, features you may not even know the purpose of, comparing the competition is awesome !!
Technically, the pan is the only thing trapping the really old oil, since the oil in the pickup tube will circulate with the fresh oil. But your point is still true about not being able to put completely fresh oil during a change. If I still had my Duramax, I would be buying one of these.
Get a floor jack and jack up the front right corner to get more oil out. Works on my LML. Also drain the plastic oil pan then loosen the oil filter to see if it releases the air gap. Don't know if it will drain pickup tube. Worth a shot while the clear pan is on
Wow,, that’s amazing,, the manufacture should be held accountable for engine failures,, that’s a buttt load of oil with crap in it ,,,as an owner it will probably cost me $1500 to have a Bank’s pan installed,, yes that could be cheap insurance,,, yet expensive,,, I have almost ALL of Banks products on my 17,,, but dam ,, now I have to figure out how to make a new pan available and affordable,,,,, thank you Banks for your products and services,,,Bob
But it’s not. The 7.3 PowerStroke engines kept not 1, but 2 quarts of in their HEUi system. And those engines lived forever. This is a product looking for a problem that doesn’t exist.
90% of engine wear is on start ups , the pick up tube was submerged to reduce oil priming time... You should show the oil priming times with stock and the non stock pans.
GM's intent was not to retain oil in the pickup tube for priming. Oil trapped in the pickup tube is a byproduct of the use of a weld nut, used to allow for proper thread engagement on the drain plug to avoid stripping the threads, but, directed inwards as to not make the drain plug a low point on the pan. This results in a pool of oil at the bottom of the sump, and thus a pickup tube will retain additional contaminated oil. We've measured the time-to-pressurization with both the stock and Banks pans. In both cases, the time is negligible. More harm is caused by dirty oil at the bottom of the sump than the few milliseconds that it takes oil to travel up the tube. Where the oil sits in the pan and pickup tube in relation to the pump before, during, and after start-up, was not left to guesswork. The "trapped condition" of the oil in the pickup tube on the stock pan is actually a temporary condition due to the wetted oil pump gears, but eventually the static level in the stock pan and pickup will reach an equilibrium to one another as the oil pump is not an absolute perfect seal. The equilibrium is overshadowed by the fact that the oil is still trapped due to the weld nut anyways, and cannot be drained. It just so happens that the faster you drain the oil on a stock pan after turning the engine off, the more oil you'll have trapped in the pickup tube. Additionally, the reverse is true. The pressure of the total oil capacity when re-filling the system with a Banks pan means oil can be forced up into the pickup tube prior to start up, as air can be pushed back up through the oil pump gears. Hundreds of hours of tests were performed during the development of the JLTV oiling system, which shares geometry with the pan in this video. A similar pan design can be found in more than 30,000 JLTV (Joint Light Tactical Vehicles) powered by Banks D866T Duramax L5P-based engines, all with zero oil pressurization issues in the field. We would have liked to have shared video footage of the oil level and pressurization tests. You've never seen so many clear graduated tubes running in and out of an engine before. Unfortunately, this footage is classified.
@@bankspowerThe problem with this response is that you don't need a JLTV to run the tests to provide the data. So why default to a military application and say, "just trust me, it's better"? Is this an indirect acknowledgement that outside a single vehicle application, there isn't any data available? The cooling benefits of fins are obvious. And that Banks implemented their fins in a way that promotes more heat transfer makes sense (though I'd be willing to bet PPE made design choices based on mfg. cost. i.e. cheaper improvement over stock was the target, not best possible performance - you do occasionally get what you pay for). This going on and on about residual oil with a gimmicky plastic sump that probably can't handle operating temps for sustained time periods... This video would be better without it.
Awsome video. love Gale's clear diff cover and now a clear oil pan😎 as a side bar, i have always driven my Duramax's up onto home built wood planks in hopes of getting a little more oil out of it than from a level lift🙄
I’ve always had a suspicion that this was happening on all my vehicles. I’ve always just added a clean quart when it’s almost done draining to help get that little extra put of there.
Wow. Top tier engineering there. Don't own a Duramax, but would definitely by this if I did. You'd think the original OEM could at least design a pan that completely drains. Maybe they want all the metal shavings and sludge / soot going up the pickup tube so you need a new engine quicker.
This is cool, love to see the things Banks gets into. Would you please consider showing one of the new-ish dipstick vacuum oil extractors with your clear pan? I suspect that they leave excessive oil behind in engines similar to the weld nut/pickup tube scenario in the Duramax pan.
2018 ford 6.7 factor oil pan, when oil change was done oil dark ness less then 30 miles. Do ford next please Fords drain bolt is on the side of the oil pan.
When I do an oil change I always pull the filter before re-installing the drain plug, as I’ve noticed that after the filter is pulled a fair amount of oil will drain again, presumably from the pickup tube. I will then reinstall the drain plug, and fill the engine with oil before installing a new filter to prevent an excessively large air bubble from being trapped in the pickup tube. I then install a pre-filled filter, pull the fuse for the injectors, and crank the engine until I see oil pressure on the gauge.
yeah, on my bimmer it's recommended to loosen the oil filter and open the fill port before opening the drain plug to lose that vacuum. Gets an extra quart out.
i run Amsoil oil and filters so not very worried but that lost quart is changed constantly while the engine is running I would assume?? I really would have wanted a nice felpro gasket with pans!!! rtv sucks to install in tight spots!!
That's why oil change places use evac suction devices on Duramax engines along with a few other manufacturers like Jeep to get that "permanent" quart out.
The 7.3L HEUI engine has 3 qts of dirty oil stuck in the heads and HPOP reservoir. If you only change the oil one time per oil change cycle, eventually that oil gets super dirty, and it never gets all the way cleaned out. Then after each oil change the oil becomes dirty very quickly after the oil is changed. One time after an oil change I drove my 2001 F250 around town for the day, then changed the oil again. After that the oil stayed clean and I changed the oil eveey 5000 miles with full synthetic. That what is required to get that oil cleaned out. Each full oil change in a 7.3 is 15qts.
I think you might find some engines will get more of the ‘typewriter tick’ with the banks sump. That old oil helps with that noise in the big end bearings.
After an oil change, and the Banks pan is installed, oil fills the pickup tube as it seeks equilibrium. This happens quickly. The engine is never starved of oil. We've measured the time-to-pressurization. Where the oil sits in the pan and pickup tube in relation to the pump before, during, and after start-up, was not left to guesswork. Hundreds of hours of tests were performed during the development of the JLTV oiling system, which shares geometry with the pan in this video. This pan design can be found in more than 30,000 JLTV (Joint Light Tactical Vehicles) powered by Duramax L5P engines.
The very reason I have been running PPE’s Larger than stock Giant oil filters on my ‘02 LB-7 in my Sierra . It filters down to next to nothing @ 2 microns and even after months of driving the oil on the dipstick looks as clean as the day I changed it . I was going to add a Frantz bypass oil filter years ago , but once the PPE filter became available & I began using them I abandoned that idea. No engine I’ve ever seen will COMPLETELY drain out all the old oil at oil changes that I have seen in my almost 50 years as a mechanic, so do whatever makes you comfortable for your personal application.
That oil is not trapped. It gets circulated back with the new as you've shown. It's already been filtered, too. New oil and filter means that residual oil is not an issue.
There is still contamination in the oil. Although it is filtered, there are still heavy metals that collect at the bottom of the oil pan while draining. The point is to remove as many contaminants as possible. The new Banks Cool Runner Oil Pan allows you to do that.
@@TankTruckTanner I see and believe everything they are telling me. Are you familiar with the phrase “trust but verify”? It seems like an obvious way to finish this video. Test your product the exact same way you tested the product you were fixing.
We discussed making a clear Banks pan but for the reason stated by @TankTruckTanner above, but decided that there was no reason. When you remove the drain plug, then remove the pan itself, there's not a single drop of oil left. We may make one for the next pan video if enough people request it.
I own a 2018 L5P. My goal is that this is my forever truck. Looks like i need to start doing some upgrades. Question: how do these mods impact warranty?
Banks upgrades are typically engineered to comply with factory warranties. It’d be best to speak with someone from banks while ordering said parts though.
At least the Duramax oil pump self primes, unlike the POS Ford Duratorq 5 cyl diesel. If you don't do your oil change and start the engine within 5 or so minutes, the pump drains of oil and it won't prime........ Plenty of DIY oil changes have ended in ruined engines in the Ford Ranger/Mazda BT50 vehicles here in Australia.
Starting to fish for products now. My lly has well over 300k miles and I am the worst about changing my oil. Probably once or twice a year with some amsoil and she keeps going. The stock pan is just fine fellas
There's oil lying around all over the engine. An oil change isn't an oil flush. Most oil drains don't get all of the oil. This is just a sales pitch. Diesel oil is pitch black ten minutes after you start a 7.3 Ford Navistar engine too. I would still buy the Banks pan if oil temperature was a problem to me. But other than that... thanks for the information.
Well if you guys would get moving on making all this stuff for my 24 F350 i'd buy it! Front-rear diff cover (16 bolt) and trans- oil pan. Rather Banks stuff but can't wait forever!
It's not technically correct to say it'll never come out. All of the dirty oil is diluted with the new oil and eventually after a few oil changes, the particles and oil from the very first oil will be basically none. But it is always nice when you get all the dirt out of the engine.
When changing the oil, the goal is to remove as many contaminants as possible. Just because the oil is being diluted with fresh should not discount the fact that there are still heavy metal contaminates in the residual oil that is left in the sump. Over time, these metal deposits become greater and the issue is exacerbated. Most will agree that removing as much of the contaminated oil as possible is the optimal route to maintain your truck over it's lifespan.
Thanks to Gale Banks for everything THING he has done to improve Diesel Engines in pickup trucks! As for me I don't have a need for a Diesel powered pickup truck as of now just don't know what the future has in store for me!
Neodymium magnets actually have a range of working temperatures, indicated by a 1-2 letter suffix. SH magnets are very common, and have a max working temperature of 150 °C. These higher temperature neodymium magnets have a much greater magnetic strength than strontium ferrite, and I can't think of any good reason not to use them instead.
If you do correct maintance this won't be a problem or concern. Also leave drain plug out and put 2 quarts in the fill tube and it will flush out that old oil. Bin doing this every third oil change for years now on my lbz.
A couple things. What about time to pressure after an oil change where you have drained the pickup tube/pump versus stock? How about the oil still hung in the cooler/lines?
GM's intent was not to retain oil in the pickup tube for priming. Oil trapped in the pickup tube is a byproduct of the use of a weld nut, used to allow for proper thread engagement on the drain plug to avoid stripping the threads, but, directed inwards as to not make the drain plug a low point on the pan. This results in a pool of oil at the bottom of the sump, and thus a pickup tube will retain additional contaminated oil. We've measured the time-to-pressurization with both the stock and Banks pans. In both cases, the time is negligible.
Additionally, when the engine manufacturer first fires the engine, there is no oil in the pickup tube. They rely on residual oil applied during the build phase. This oil remains on the bearing surfaces for quite some time. In other words, even if the oil or pan change takes two days, there is a protective film remaining. There is no risk of dry-firing the engine.
More harm is caused by dirty oil at the bottom of the sump than the few milliseconds that it takes oil to travel up the tube. Where the oil sits in the pan and pickup tube in relation to the pump before, during, and after start-up, was not left to guesswork. The "trapped condition" of the oil in the pickup tube on the stock pan is actually a temporary condition due to the wetted oil pump gears, but eventually, the static level in the stock pan and pickup will reach an equilibrium to one another as the oil pump is not an absolute perfect seal. The equilibrium is overshadowed by the fact that the oil is still trapped due to the weld nut anyway, and cannot be drained. It just so happens that the faster you drain the oil on a stock pan after turning the engine off, the more oil you'll have trapped in the pickup tube.
Additionally, the reverse is true. The pressure of the total oil capacity when re-filling the system with a Banks pan means oil can be forced up into the pickup tube prior to start up, as air can be pushed back up through the oil pump gears. Hundreds of hours of tests were performed during the development of the JLTV oiling system, which shares geometry with the pan in this video. A similar pan design can be found in more than 30,000 JLTV (Joint Light Tactical Vehicles) powered by Banks D866T Duramax L5P-based engines, all with zero oil pressurization issues in the field. We would have liked to have shared video footage of the oil level and pressurization tests. You've never seen so many clear graduated tubes running in and out of an engine before. Unfortunately, this footage is classified.
@@bankspower Good to know. That could have been included in your original presentation.
Can we please get one for third gen Dodge RAM diesels?
When will an oil pan and trans pan be available for Ram 6.7s? (2018)
@@bankspower Thanks for clarifying. When viewers and customers are used to in-depth, data-rich presentations as seen with the differential cover, the "old oil bad" just feels more marketing driven than data driven.
I would have loved to see a demonstration on the road or dyno where the truck is derating due to oil temperature with the stock pan compared to the Banks pan. I didn't even know that was a thing before this video, so I did learn something, but actually seeing it would have been even better.
I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard that many shops are simply vacuuming oil out of the pan through the dipstick tube via small suction hose these days. If that's the case (removing vs draining the oil), is that not a simple solution to this problem?
I'm already a fan of Banks, but seeing these in depth videos about the design and thought process that goes into your products always blows me away. Banks Engineering is the embodiment of 110%. At least compared to the rest of the industry.
Banks has done it again. Great job. The science of that product is crazy.
These products are so well-engineered it makes me want to go buy a Duramax just so that I can buy this part
lol-the “dirtymax diesel engine is an Isuzu product-good luck if you have one 🤪
@@bradzimmerman3171 Dmax is owned by General Motors with GM/DMAX owning 100% of the intellectual property on the L5P. Duramax is a past venture for Isuzu for a number of years now. Even better, Duramax engines are built right here at home in Brookville and Moraine, OH
This is why Banks is the best in the business!! True R&D, true engineering.
Personally I drain my oil often enough not to worry about the residual oil, but I would buy the Bank pan just for the cooling.
Ya I'm not concerned at all about 10% or less residual. It's diluted each change and the filter will catch the particulate. Weird to see this from banks honestly
goody goody for you
The reality is you can never drain every drop of oil from all engines, and that's OK. Duramax engineers prioritized a drain plug hole with more threads so it's less likely to strip, and a pickup tube that stays submerged so there are no dry starts. Just change your oil according to the schedule and stop worrying about it. Spend money on something else instead.
Wow! Banks needs to make this for the 3 Liter Duramax too.
Gale, we need to talk about the 6.7 lower pan!!! Wish we could get rid of the upper pan too!!
I bet gale is working on a system that separate the two components so you can more easily work on the trucks.
Let’s be real though bro, he’s resigning a cradle that’ll take some time
I agree 😊
For ford pans
I believe Mag-Hytec makes a replacement lower oil pan for the 6.7 powerstroke that moves the drain plug vertical to allow more oil to drain and it also adds two quarts bringing the capacity up to 15 quarts, equal to the old 7.3.
Hands down BANKS is the BEST!! No competition is even close!
I don't own a diesel or even a truck but Gale and company are always great to watch.
Videos like this always catch my attention and interest simply due to the sheer knowledge of the topics being discussed/covered/spoken about and the type of understanding you guys have where you’re able to explain it all in simple terms so anyone off the street can understand what you’re talking about.
These types of products and videos also make me wish two things: 1) That you guys at Banks would make these fluid cooling products for all the engines you’ve made parts for over the years. 2) That y’all would just hurry up and produce your own vehicles from the ground up that’re maximized for performance, longevity, and ease of maintenance for the civilian market. Lord knows y’all would make a better off-the-line product then what the OEM’s have been putting out for a good while now.
Awesome that a diff cover question is leading to all these new products.
I would love to see you guys make Oil pans and Diff Covers for other cars! (Subaru, Toyota, Ford, Mitsubishi etc)
My powersmoke will have maybe double this at any given time.. that's why I always do 2 or sometimes 3 oil changes every year and I have a custom filter set up which has a much finer micron rating with a better flow rating as well. Not to mention an air to oil cooler that's 5 times larger than the oem water to oil cooler. My truck has never been happier when I made these and other custom upgrades years ago and I'm pushing 430xxx + oh.. and virtually no blow by still 👌🏼
Good to see the engineering explained
Banks one of the best companies out there in terms of science, research, and making products that aren't gimmicks.
A 7.3 powerstroke with the HEUI injection system holds at least a quart of oil between the HPOP and the passages in the heads and with good, normal maintenance don't seem to have any problems going a half million miles or more.
The L5P is making 40% more power and doesn't have a pan capacity of 15 qts like the 7.3l. Not even close to a fair comparison.
@Heckleburger 🤣not a fair comparison for many reasons
When I had my 99 7.3 which I had for 20 years. I would remove the allen bolt on top of the pump and suck what ever oil I could If I remember correctly it was roughly 22 oz. So I would put whatever I sucked out back in with fresh oil and continue with my oil change
😇😊😎
@ericduran9994 you've probably got that much more in the oil galleries in the head and block. I've seen some rather heated discussions on whether drain the hpop or not.
I mean, yeah there's a bit of old oil in the engine, but there's always dirty oil stuck in the oil galleys, the oil cooler, etc, too. If you do regular oil changes, this is a total non-issue, as that dirty oil will be immediately diluted by all the fresh oil. This is a solution looking for a problem.
Yeah I'm a bit confused. The oil gets mixed up every time the vehicle is started and driven, and then even if some residual remains it'll mix with fresh oil at every oil change. May not be ideal, but doesnt sound like much of a problem. The Banks piece does look nice having additional quantity and cooling ability, but I think most typical owners will not benefit from it.
Yup.
The 7.3 Powerstroke holds a lot more old oil and is known for great longevity, that is evidence that leftover oil is a non-issue. I remember working trucks that had an on-board oil changer that changed about 1/10 of the oil as they were running, that was enough for the manufacturer to allow for almost doubling the miles between oil changes. I was working at an International dealership but I think those trucks had Cat engines, not sure.
The issue isn't necessarily old oil though. If there is foreign material in the oil, the stuff that is heavier will sink to the bottom where it won't get drained out. In every single engine you'll have a measurable amount of oil left in after a simple oil change. I've seen engines sit for years without an oil pan and they still have oil dripping out
@@xlegit13And that real heavy stuff will sit there in perpetuity... if it does happen to get picked up, it's getting trapped in the filter. There's no real issue.
@@DonziGT230 oh yeah stroke that power! silly ford names
My goodness! Banks is on fire! Absolutely the best with the data to prove it!
Crazy that y'all just discovered the pan holds a quart every change, this has been common knowledge basically since the Duramax released. But it's awesome that y'all have a solution! I'll have to grab it!
yep, I still remember the banana pan release. Yet at 300 000 miles on stock pan here.
Banks has done it again. Good work
U guys always make the best possible products
7.3 Powerstroke holds 3 quarts of oil when you just drain the oil pan. I suck out the high pressure oil reservour and fill it, put the cap plug on and run the engine 2- 3 minutes. I do that 3 times to help get most of the old oil out. I also have a FS2500 oil bypass filter installed to keep the oil clean. Every diesel needs an oil bypass filter installed with egr because that puts alot of soot in the engine oil.
I suck the old oil out of the hpop reservoir as well, it helps the injectors run in cleaner oil in start up.
I think the 7.3 holds 13 Quarts of oil, not 3 Quarts if I am not mistaken.
😊😊😊😊😊😊 thank you again Mr. Banks
You demonstrated a good reason why the oil filter should be removed while the oil pan plug is out. It allows the trapped oil to drain into the oil pan. I've seen this demonstrated numerous times. I thought most mechanics realized this. Remove the drain plug, remove the filter, then install the plug.
Hands down, the best engineered products for your truck. My '18 Duramax got totalled, but it had Banks products on it. The insurance company gave me extra credit for those upgrades; absolutely incredible! I sure miss my '18. And you can bet these items would have been on it, had they been available when I owned it.
I’ve been using all this diesel knowledge on my wrx, I lowered the air turbulence feeding my engine.
Matched air in to air out with a custom exhaust, and I let my stock ecu just relearn the air fuel ratio.
I went from 9.8l/100km
To about 8l/100km
What is the LTFT on your WRX?
Wouldn't gm be keeping the pickup tube submerged by design to minimize the no oil pressure condition when the engine is started after an oil change?
Won't the pickup tube be full of air for a short time, and won't the oil pump have to pump that air through the lubrication system?
Did you guys verify how long the engine sees no oil pressure? I'd be interested in that data.
It depends if the oil flows back in the pan when you remove the filter, as @09corvettezr1 suggested above.
All engine components have an oil film already, and they will have oil pressure again before this would ever become an issue.
After an oil change, and the Banks pan is installed, oil fills the pickup tube as it seeks equilibrium. This happens quickly. The engine is never starved of oil. We've measured the time-to-pressurization. Where the oil sits in the pan and pickup tube in relation to the pump before, during, and after start-up, was not left to guesswork. Hundreds of hours of tests were performed during the development of the JLTV oiling system, which shares geometry with the pan in this video. This pan design can be found in more than 30,000 JLTV (Joint Light Tactical Vehicles) powered by Duramax L5P engines.
@@bankspower Would you mind sharing the time-to-pressurization data with the stock pan and the Banks pan?
It just seems as though the stock pan was designed to hold back enough oil to keep the bottom of the pickup tube covered and seems as though it was done intentionally.
Sweet! Great job, Banks Power! And very good quality video as well. The only hiccup in it is the dropping in of "PPE" without any introduction. After a while, you explained what PPE is and does, but for a little while, I was lost.
The good thing about the pickup tube holding all that oil is that it'll get to the bearings quicker when you start the car after an oil change.
Agreed. It's a swing and a miss with this one. Better off increasing the size of the oil cooler.
This was my first thought.
This was designed specifically to do this so there was no dry moments after starting
and this old oil is not a big problem with normal use of the car the old oil will mix with the new oil and its fine
Agree idk what they mean here u don't want it to start dry
@@DivaniKingston i dont think their pan will start dry either once its full
great video. I have not usually paid much attention to different aftermarket parts, but am now. I have a 2008 ram 3500 with the Cummins, which i love. After my son ( a technician at a local bmw mini dealership) sent me the info about the heater element issues, i purchased the monster intake. Recently, i had a gc for a local parts store, and wanting to use it, i purchased a k&n oil filter, big mistake. I installed it as instructed , and a few days later i crawled under my truck and noticed a bit of oil on the filter bottom. Thinking maybe this was risidual from filling the filter prior to install, i wiped it and forgot it. A couple weeks later i noticed the same, but went and bought an oem filter from a local dodge dealership. No issues since. I believe the internal area by the threads protrudes too high towards the top edge , thus contacting part of the engine beside the threaded nipple, and stopping the seal from sealing. Lesson learned for me. With aftermarket parts, some are fine, but do research when able. Anyone else had this issue?
I'm less concerned about all that oil because if you change it on Jack stands, more oil will flow to the drain leaving a lot less behind. Vacuum draining the oil would also work. I also want to see Ford and Cummins because I bet they have similar issues too. It's the cooling aspects that are the bigger deal here.
I would love a full set of these pans for the 6.7 Cummins!
YES
@bankspower well, how about it?
Eric, your lookin' good! You and Gale are very lucky to have each other- and an awesome engineering team as well. This is what you get from building a ton or three of these engines for the USG, and built them to a higher spec- a ton of knowledge and experience few others can match. You have freely reached beyond "conventional wisdom" and looked at aerospace developments like metallurgies and the science of heat. The down side, as I see it, is the baseball you just hit out of the park is gone- the upside is you can afford a new one!
mechanic here. when resealing any oil pan or cover. that fat bead of sealer is way too much. i apply it a little at a time and spread it along the surface. this stops it from squeezing out. no other covers on engines have a groove like that. the film of silicone should only be about .020-.030 thick layer.
Very impressive and convincing. But how about some engine temperature measurements to back up the claims.
In order to keep the draining oil stream from eventually landing on my skid plate I change my oil with the front elevated 6-10 inches (on a slanted driveway plus up on 6x8 blocks). Pretty sure that reduces the residual by something significant. But as others have mentioned, changing your oil and filter regularly is all that is really needed.
WOW.... Awesome! Start making them for 1968 thru 1978 Mopar engines! 🏁
Well impressed, so much detail in this video, showing off features that matter, features you may not even know the purpose of, comparing the competition is awesome !!
Technically, the pan is the only thing trapping the really old oil, since the oil in the pickup tube will circulate with the fresh oil. But your point is still true about not being able to put completely fresh oil during a change. If I still had my Duramax, I would be buying one of these.
This is great but at least PPE actually caters to those of us with a 3.0
Gale has been talking about these products for years so it's good to see them finally on the market
0:49 beautiful truck on the trailer
Get a floor jack and jack up the front right corner to get more oil out. Works on my LML. Also drain the plastic oil pan then loosen the oil filter to see if it releases the air gap. Don't know if it will drain pickup tube. Worth a shot while the clear pan is on
Wow,, that’s amazing,, the manufacture should be held accountable for engine failures,, that’s a buttt load of oil with crap in it ,,,as an owner it will probably cost me $1500 to have a Bank’s pan installed,, yes that could be cheap insurance,,, yet expensive,,, I have almost ALL of Banks products on my 17,,, but dam ,, now I have to figure out how to make a new pan available and affordable,,,,, thank you Banks for your products and services,,,Bob
But it’s not. The 7.3 PowerStroke engines kept not 1, but 2 quarts of in their HEUi system. And those engines lived forever. This is a product looking for a problem that doesn’t exist.
Nice design. Only thing I see missing is maybe a hole to install an AMS Oil Bypass Filter return connection.
That is a terrific idea
90% of engine wear is on start ups , the pick up tube was submerged to reduce oil priming time...
You should show the oil priming times with stock and the non stock pans.
I’ve been waiting for you to make one ordering mine today
So if you keep the stock pan, change it sooner to find a balance. Both of your pans are pretty awesome.❤
You guys cease to amaze me!
Banks fixes Dirtymax engine mess again. Great product. Pity about what it's bolted to.
LB7's did the same thing. just put a tube down the dipstick tube and suck out the remains of the oil with a fluid evacuator.
How about a test to confirm time for the pump to fill the pickup tube and build oil pressure?
Is this a upgrade that will cause problems?
GM's intent was not to retain oil in the pickup tube for priming. Oil trapped in the pickup tube is a byproduct of the use of a weld nut, used to allow for proper thread engagement on the drain plug to avoid stripping the threads, but, directed inwards as to not make the drain plug a low point on the pan. This results in a pool of oil at the bottom of the sump, and thus a pickup tube will retain additional contaminated oil. We've measured the time-to-pressurization with both the stock and Banks pans. In both cases, the time is negligible.
More harm is caused by dirty oil at the bottom of the sump than the few milliseconds that it takes oil to travel up the tube. Where the oil sits in the pan and pickup tube in relation to the pump before, during, and after start-up, was not left to guesswork. The "trapped condition" of the oil in the pickup tube on the stock pan is actually a temporary condition due to the wetted oil pump gears, but eventually the static level in the stock pan and pickup will reach an equilibrium to one another as the oil pump is not an absolute perfect seal. The equilibrium is overshadowed by the fact that the oil is still trapped due to the weld nut anyways, and cannot be drained. It just so happens that the faster you drain the oil on a stock pan after turning the engine off, the more oil you'll have trapped in the pickup tube.
Additionally, the reverse is true. The pressure of the total oil capacity when re-filling the system with a Banks pan means oil can be forced up into the pickup tube prior to start up, as air can be pushed back up through the oil pump gears. Hundreds of hours of tests were performed during the development of the JLTV oiling system, which shares geometry with the pan in this video. A similar pan design can be found in more than 30,000 JLTV (Joint Light Tactical Vehicles) powered by Banks D866T Duramax L5P-based engines, all with zero oil pressurization issues in the field. We would have liked to have shared video footage of the oil level and pressurization tests. You've never seen so many clear graduated tubes running in and out of an engine before. Unfortunately, this footage is classified.
😂@@bankspower
@@bankspower😂
@@bankspowerThe problem with this response is that you don't need a JLTV to run the tests to provide the data. So why default to a military application and say, "just trust me, it's better"? Is this an indirect acknowledgement that outside a single vehicle application, there isn't any data available?
The cooling benefits of fins are obvious. And that Banks implemented their fins in a way that promotes more heat transfer makes sense (though I'd be willing to bet PPE made design choices based on mfg. cost. i.e. cheaper improvement over stock was the target, not best possible performance - you do occasionally get what you pay for). This going on and on about residual oil with a gimmicky plastic sump that probably can't handle operating temps for sustained time periods... This video would be better without it.
How about teaming with the OEM to offer a factory Bank's version. Like a Shelby Mustang for instance?
Details matter, thanks Banks!!
Awsome video. love Gale's clear diff cover and now a clear oil pan😎 as a side bar, i have always driven my Duramax's up onto home built wood planks in hopes of getting a little more oil out of it than from a level lift🙄
That groove for the silicone on the PPE pan is exactly what VW does on their factory oil pans 🧐
Banks has a long standing reputation for excellence and I don't even use any of their products but IF I needed some Banks would be choice #1.
BANKS will save your truck, their products are EXTREMELY WELL RESEARCHED and worth every penny.
I’ve always had a suspicion that this was happening on all my vehicles. I’ve always just added a clean quart when it’s almost done draining to help get that little extra put of there.
Wow. Top tier engineering there. Don't own a Duramax, but would definitely by this if I did. You'd think the original OEM could at least design a pan that completely drains. Maybe they want all the metal shavings and sludge / soot going up the pickup tube so you need a new engine quicker.
Can’t wait to see these for lml’s and older
This is cool, love to see the things Banks gets into. Would you please consider showing one of the new-ish dipstick vacuum oil extractors with your clear pan? I suspect that they leave excessive oil behind in engines similar to the weld nut/pickup tube scenario in the Duramax pan.
I bet every engine on the market has more oil stuck in it than we would want.
So are you saying this product is useless because of complacency?
2018 ford 6.7 factor oil pan, when oil change was done oil dark ness less then 30 miles. Do ford next please
Fords drain bolt is on the side of the oil pan.
Came to say what others have already said, that’s a good thing and you could poor in some clean oil with the plug out to drain more of that out.
When I do an oil change I always pull the filter before re-installing the drain plug, as I’ve noticed that after the filter is pulled a fair amount of oil will drain again, presumably from the pickup tube. I will then reinstall the drain plug, and fill the engine with oil before installing a new filter to prevent an excessively large air bubble from being trapped in the pickup tube. I then install a pre-filled filter, pull the fuse for the injectors, and crank the engine until I see oil pressure on the gauge.
yeah, on my bimmer it's recommended to loosen the oil filter and open the fill port before opening the drain plug to lose that vacuum. Gets an extra quart out.
i run Amsoil oil and filters so not very worried but that lost quart is changed constantly while the engine is running I would assume?? I really would have wanted a nice felpro gasket with pans!!! rtv sucks to install in tight spots!!
That's why oil change places use evac suction devices on Duramax engines along with a few other manufacturers like Jeep to get that "permanent" quart out.
The 7.3L HEUI engine has 3 qts of dirty oil stuck in the heads and HPOP reservoir. If you only change the oil one time per oil change cycle, eventually that oil gets super dirty, and it never gets all the way cleaned out. Then after each oil change the oil becomes dirty very quickly after the oil is changed. One time after an oil change I drove my 2001 F250 around town for the day, then changed the oil again. After that the oil stayed clean and I changed the oil eveey 5000 miles with full synthetic. That what is required to get that oil cleaned out. Each full oil change in a 7.3 is 15qts.
GM also uses the “hop scotch dash” style thick then thin RTV troughs for some of their factory aluminum pans.
I'm convinced I'll keep the stock sump and save money
Doesn't really matter once you mixed in the new oil any debris will eventually get trapped by the oil filter sooner or later. Are they correct kinda.
An oil analysis comparing the oil that came out of the drain hole to the oil stuck in the pan would have emphasized how bad it is.
I think you might find some engines will get more of the ‘typewriter tick’ with the banks sump. That old oil helps with that noise in the big end bearings.
Which is worse,
After an oil change, and the Banks pan is installed, oil fills the pickup tube as it seeks equilibrium. This happens quickly. The engine is never starved of oil. We've measured the time-to-pressurization. Where the oil sits in the pan and pickup tube in relation to the pump before, during, and after start-up, was not left to guesswork. Hundreds of hours of tests were performed during the development of the JLTV oiling system, which shares geometry with the pan in this video. This pan design can be found in more than 30,000 JLTV (Joint Light Tactical Vehicles) powered by Duramax L5P engines.
It’s like Garage54 with a big budget. Fun and informative.
The very reason I have been running PPE’s Larger than stock Giant oil filters on my ‘02 LB-7 in my Sierra . It filters down to next to nothing @ 2 microns and even after months of driving the oil on the dipstick looks as clean as the day I changed it . I was going to add a Frantz bypass oil filter years ago , but once the PPE filter became available & I began using them I abandoned that idea. No engine I’ve ever seen will COMPLETELY drain out all the old oil at oil changes that I have seen in my almost 50 years as a mechanic, so do whatever makes you comfortable for your personal application.
Love the content and true engineering you guys show case. Does this mean more regular content releases?
The damn LZ0 and LM2 are affected as well. My 2023 EOT runs 238-241 consistently on no grade and not towing along with keeping oil forever.
That oil is not trapped. It gets circulated back with the new as you've shown. It's already been filtered, too. New oil and filter means that residual oil is not an issue.
There is still contamination in the oil. Although it is filtered, there are still heavy metals that collect at the bottom of the oil pan while draining. The point is to remove as many contaminants as possible. The new Banks Cool Runner Oil Pan allows you to do that.
Show me a clear banks oil pan and show me how empty it will be.
Did you not see the pan plug, there is no way for it to keep oil in the pan. It appears the ppe would drain too.
@@TankTruckTanner I see and believe everything they are telling me. Are you familiar with the phrase “trust but verify”? It seems like an obvious way to finish this video. Test your product the exact same way you tested the product you were fixing.
We discussed making a clear Banks pan but for the reason stated by @TankTruckTanner above, but decided that there was no reason. When you remove the drain plug, then remove the pan itself, there's not a single drop of oil left. We may make one for the next pan video if enough people request it.
Do it @@bankspower
Always impressed with your products!
I own a 2018 L5P. My goal is that this is my forever truck. Looks like i need to start doing some upgrades. Question: how do these mods impact warranty?
Banks upgrades are typically engineered to comply with factory warranties. It’d be best to speak with someone from banks while ordering said parts though.
Someone lied to you. Forever doesn't exist.
At least the Duramax oil pump self primes, unlike the POS Ford Duratorq 5 cyl diesel. If you don't do your oil change and start the engine within 5 or so minutes, the pump drains of oil and it won't prime........ Plenty of DIY oil changes have ended in ruined engines in the Ford Ranger/Mazda BT50 vehicles here in Australia.
Starting to fish for products now. My lly has well over 300k miles and I am the worst about changing my oil. Probably once or twice a year with some amsoil and she keeps going. The stock pan is just fine fellas
There's oil lying around all over the engine. An oil change isn't an oil flush. Most oil drains don't get all of the oil. This is just a sales pitch. Diesel oil is pitch black ten minutes after you start a 7.3 Ford Navistar engine too. I would still buy the Banks pan if oil temperature was a problem to me. But other than that... thanks for the information.
Well if you guys would get moving on making all this stuff for my 24 F350 i'd buy it! Front-rear diff cover (16 bolt) and trans- oil pan. Rather Banks stuff but can't wait forever!
It's not technically correct to say it'll never come out. All of the dirty oil is diluted with the new oil and eventually after a few oil changes, the particles and oil from the very first oil will be basically none.
But it is always nice when you get all the dirt out of the engine.
One thing to remember about all of these pans, if you live in a cold climate there can be a major issue over cooling all of your lubricants.
Hehe I'd be tickled to see active grille shutters for oil pans
@@Ariccio123I used to put a blanket under my cat because of this problem, all winter “0” oil temp if you didn’t.
Great video Eric!
Impressive as always
It doesn't make that big of a difference. It's a miniscule difference if you're using proper oil change intervals.
When changing the oil, the goal is to remove as many contaminants as possible. Just because the oil is being diluted with fresh should not discount the fact that there are still heavy metal contaminates in the residual oil that is left in the sump. Over time, these metal deposits become greater and the issue is exacerbated. Most will agree that removing as much of the contaminated oil as possible is the optimal route to maintain your truck over it's lifespan.
It’s insane how vehicles can go hundreds of thousands of miles with the stock component’s….
Thanks to Gale Banks for everything THING he has done to improve Diesel Engines in pickup trucks! As for me I don't have a need for a Diesel powered pickup truck as of now just don't know what the future has in store for me!
Neodymium magnets actually have a range of working temperatures, indicated by a 1-2 letter suffix. SH magnets are very common, and have a max working temperature of 150 °C. These higher temperature neodymium magnets have a much greater magnetic strength than strontium ferrite, and I can't think of any good reason not to use them instead.
If you do correct maintance this won't be a problem or concern. Also leave drain plug out and put 2 quarts in the fill tube and it will flush out that old oil. Bin doing this every third oil change for years now on my lbz.
A couple things. What about time to pressure after an oil change where you have drained the pickup tube/pump versus stock? How about the oil still hung in the cooler/lines?
You guys are just Awesome!