Dead Game News: Stadia is shutting down
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- Stadia is shutting down. It's like a movie where the heroes aren't strong enough to stop the villain, but the villain is so incompetent they stop themselves. Contains legendary quotes.
accursedfarms.com
The craziest thing about Stadia being shut down is that literally one day before the announcement, the UI was given a big overhaul. So this means that the people working on Stadia didn't even know it was gonna be shut down. Google didn't tell them at all. It's crazy lmao
As as person who's job was heavily related to Stadia; it came out of nowhere and most people learned by the news article
There's gotta be a Dilbert comic about this
Footage at Stadia HQ when Google shut it down: ruclips.net/video/ucHszhKcnzg/видео.html
@@JediMasterBaiter shit quality video. 👌
Lmao, fits so well, Walken is fantastic as Google :D
A big part of stadia's thing was the idea that you should trust that you totally will have access to your stuff. Using a refund means that their next stadia can say "Be an early adopter! Devote your collection to our system! There's no risk, we refunded last time!"
that's a long game but I wouldn't put it past google. why haven't they been shut down yet?
@@KairuHakubi Because the world would plunge into chaos?
Are they giving refunds?
@@veronicavaes4581 didnt realize you worked for google
we're in chaos now. we would have _less_ chaos without them. plus we would have law and order.
I doubt there'll be a next time, at least from Google.
Someone else might try this, probably will try this, heck Amazon is doing it now with Luna. They'll just be a lot more careful about the legal wording of things so as to avoid lawsuits.
If you ask someone in corporate a question and their answer isn't straightforward or even really relevant tp the question, assume the worst possible answer because 99/100 times it's the right answer.
As Ross said: When the probability is high, i will bet on that...
I know i'm paraphrasing but it's the message the important thing...
"Explain to me why I should pay you money knowing this exact type of product has a history of not sticking around for long and your company has a history of shelving mild successes because they're probably not that sustainable."
"Oh you don't have to worry dude trust me lmao"
@@IriomoteYamaneko just trust me infuriates me so much, like 'lets bring back the honor code for billionaire assholes who squash small competitors, why wouldn't I take faceless formless groups at their word?'
@@IriomoteYamaneko Unfortunately there's just enough investors dumb enough to accept that as an acceptable answer.
6:08 why refund customers?
My ongoing theory on Google is, they "redesign" an existing product, they throw so much money in the fire to either
1)bait others to do the same
2)warn others not to
Why? To force a tech race or crash the race.
Look at google glasses, Chromebooks, Google plus or what ever their social app was.
By refunding everyone you set a president that other companies will have to follow suit
"All of our games will be safely in the cloud, and we'll feel great about it."
Sounds virtually identical to
"You will own nothing and be happy."
IBC, 'Yule' Love It!
But like, that kind of aggressive advertising, just _telling_ me I'll like something before I've even seen it. That's always a doomed strategy.
Dont you feel great when a movie in netflix gets region locked to fucking mongolia?
The future of gaming...
Lol that's because it literally is. Entertainment first, your house later. Good old conditioning.
yeah i was like, “steam - this is already what steam is; and no i’m not really thrilled about how this works currently”
@@valletas Amazon prime also just takes stuff from your library without refunding if the localization changes. At least Steam let's you still keep and play games like this, but who knows how long that will last.
you reading that reddit quote was so good, it sounded like a cult leader or die hard follower when presented with criticism
It really does sound just like Dr. Breen from Half Life 2. "I understand your concern, my fellow citizen, but you're actually just being a irrational Luddite enslaved to your primitive instincts. You should thank Google/The Combine for everything they're doing for us."
or you know...a google employee.
Reddit moment
they're not scientists, they're cultists with advanced degrees.
@@ingwersengrady Yeah, just like he said.
I never thought about how hard it is to get a CD player these days. I mean, imagine having to drive to an electronics/appliance store, walk through the entrance, walk to the audio section, pick the player off the shelf, go to the till and pay for it. Truly a modern odyssey.
Not even. Just order one off Amazon.
Or order one for $10 off of Amazon with 1 day delivery.
Just get one off of Ebay.
Yeah, getting a CD player is hard. All they're selling these days are DVD and Blue-ray drives. /s
Or you know walk, cycle or take transit if the city was properly designed instead of the american suburbia wasteland
No... i haven't considered kidnapping situations with that much detail before, but very illustrative Ross, thank you.
Ross seems to have a knack for constructing disturbingly specific analogies.
@@NovanByworks remember the cult simulator game dungeon?
He had very vivid plans and, uh, constructive feedback on how to start and maintain a cult.
it's prob cause of that criminology degree lol
The most foregone conclusion of foregone conclusions ever.
Even when it was announced people a) knew it was dead because of Google or b) wondered who the hell it was for.
Me no shit I've been playing cyberpunk 2077 on stadia cause fuck playing it on my ps4
The most surprising thing about this, is that this rubbish lasted as long as it did.
Speaking of inability to parse probability, a Google employee was kvetching on Twitter about how Stadia tanking was completely unforeseeable:
_"I cannot imagine what it must be feeling like to have all of that come crashing to a halt. Numb right now... _*_And the shitty I-told-you-sos... You didn't know. None of us did. That was the whole point."_* With a bunch of platitudes about how Stadia could still change the face of gaming for the better, yadda yadda.
Thing is, she was directly involved with the in-house game development a little under two years ago. She had to have seen how that all went down when they all got the axe, in exactly the same way the entire project and crew got it this time. The execs patting everyone on the head with "Good job guys!" knowing that they were sacrificing their time and effort towards a dead project.
Unless she was just that content to eat the cheese for the past few years while the cats in higher management were away. Or she was just that drunk on the Jonestown Kool-Aid.
@St. Haborym I do it to play games so I dint have to spend 1200 bucks on a new computer. I spent like 50 bucks for cyberpunk and been playing it since launch just about and it runs amazing on stadia even without pro
@@kyleshockley1573 Cultist shocked to learn they were in a cult.
10:35 wasn't some guy who played 6000 hours of RDR2 on Stadia upset that his savefiles couldn't be transfered to other platforms, short of Rockstar helping him directly? Not sure how this _"of course you can download your savefiles"_ worked out in practice.
"I generally don't believe in things if there's a lot of evidence to suggest they're false"
Words to live by
What an antisemite!
How do those words apply to real life?
Anti-vaxxers think there's alot of evidence that vaccines are dangerous, even if 99% of people that take them aren't affected. So how does this phrase apply there?
Flat Earthers do not possess such wisdom.
@@AniSky759 Most people don't in general. They'll believe things even if evidence suggests otherwise in most cases, all you gotta do is properly appeal to personal biases.
@@rhorybader4054 I feel is more soo that most people don't fact check more then anything. Hard to disagree when you are inondated with other people saying is true
Easily one of your best and necessary thought provoking videos.
I really appreciate how you emphasizes that is not about if you care about the game or not, if it's just one game or not, if it is a good/deserving game or not, it is ALWAYS about a precedent that slowly gets normalized. The same thing happened to DLC and what a nightmare do we have now?
Keep fighting the good fight, Ross!
Yeah, DLC for major games is a nightmare. The slow seep of mobile microtransactions, too. I'm actually scared thinking about millions of people who are growing up fast, thinking that "this is the norm, this is fine" and will keep on enabling companies to run that sort of shitty practices.
@@TheWinjin Cutting off fingers to feed the birds.
I feel like Nvidia’s GeForce now might have the most responsible implementation, where the games are pulled from the user’s existing libraries, but even then, I’m worried mass adoption could slowly strangle traditional client-run games.
The industry just can’t be trusted with this kind of stuff, and has no incentive to behave in a trustworthy manner.
Shame their graphics cards are slowly pricing gamers out.
So exactly how EVERY OTHER cloud streaming is?
Stadia was the only service that did what they did, which is why they failed.
GeForce Now
Shadow PC
_And one other streaming service that had a blue logo, I forgot the name of it_
They all didn’t force you to buy the game again, nor did they “buy out” games to make it exclusive their cloud streaming service (which Stadia did for the GTA titles…)
I mean you didn't have to pay for a subscription to stadia meanwhile even if you huy a subscription to GeForce now you're still limited to like 6 to 8 hours of gameplay like yeah you still had to buy games for stadia but you could play them as much as you'd like no time limit and no subscription
GeForce Now was awesome in the beta days when it basically worked with any game in your steam library. Then they went gold and all the publishers were like hold up we gotta get an extra cut on these games because you're playing it on a computer in the cloud instead of locally.
@@flagondragon1854 begone stadia shill, the adults are talking.
On that last point, using Winaero Tweaker to disable Windows Update does in fact break the Windows store, since it basically cuts off the Windows download servers to prevent your computer from downloading updates. So yes, it is impossible to gain full control over your own computer and still be able to use the Windows store.
a small price to pay...
Can confirm this.
Does it prevent using Gamepass too ? Given that it seems linked to the store to buy the games with a discount when you're subbed.
i was pretty pissed to buy a mouse with an RGB light on it that I couldn't turn off or affect without registering my computer with microsoft, something which I couldnt even do on the OS i was using at the time.
i just put tape over the light.
I'm just glad that you (at least on Win10) can log into the Windows Store _without_ having your local PC login replaced with a MS Account. You have to be very careful what buttons you click during initial Store login to make sure it doesn't log you into MS system-wide, but once you've done it, the Store will _not_ bug you to change your system login from Local to MS (again, at least on Win10... there's installer hax to remove the MS Account setup requirement in Win11, but if you try to use the Store on Win11, it _will_ set the MS Account you use on the Store as your OS-wide login if you had changed your login to a Local Account after setup).
How the hell did that Stadia employee's comment have almost 300 upvotes? They completely dodged the question, although I guess the fact they did so made it clear what the answer was. Google had to be flooding that AMA with bots or something, I refuse to believe almost 300 people could look at that and be like "Yep, he's spitting facts here," without being paid for it.
Well considering the fact that there are actual ppl who are willing to spend so freaking much money on f2p games that they know will be gone 1 day says a lot.
Stadia fans (and now Amazon Luna fans too) are really delusional like this. They'll take anything remotely positive and rebound it across their echo chamber ad infinitum.
To be fair, it could also be for visibility. A lot of people sort comments on reddit threads by their popularity or their relevance, upvoting that comment guarantees that a lot of people will see it, because it is important, whereas otherwise it may have been buried under less important questions.
Sometimes you should upvote a problem statement, not because you agree with it but because it brings attention to it.
300 more people than the ones who saw through the crap, because upvotes and downvotes cancel out 1-to-1.
I am glad Ross lives on Accursed Farms. It ensures that it can't die (just go undead).
Except games...
When they die, they die for good...
As they say: "The Cloud is just someone else's computer."
You know since the Stadia was announced I thought I was going insane cause I seemed to be the only one who saw the dangers of normalizing streaming services for gaming and being in awe at the people who actually thought that model was the future. Everyone else seemed to just say that the Stadia itself sucks, whereas I didn't think this should exist to begin with, period.
people are optimistic to a stupid degree when they hear something is being released and they immediately assume it will be good even though we are currently in an age of stagnation were the worst ideas come to the top
You weren't the only one, though sadly we seem to be few
I was saying basically what you did when it was announced, that shit is disturbing to me.
I had to convince my friend not to get one. The argument that convinced him not to buy was "it's ALWAYS online, so even with your fast internet, if anything is going on in the infrastructure across the country, you're gonna get lag, and that will be on top of the native input lag you're ALWAYS going to deal with since, again, it's ALWAYS online."
You are definitly not the only one but we are a not very vocal minority it seems.
remember, Games as a Service is fraud
I see…
@@averagepersonfrommissouri751 "I see" said the blind man.
All this manpower, money and creativity, and instead of devoting it to building amazing games that consumers will flock to for years, you use it to engineer abominations of dystopian capitalism and legalese to entrap and fleece.
For example: halo infinite
@@robsilvester6213 Always remember. Under capitalism, art is a means to an end. Monetizing it is the means to accrue more capital in the end. Art cannot exist for art's sake in that system and thus will be treated as a product.
"Eventually all of or games will be safely in the cloud too and we'll feel great about it"
You know it's real when the guy starts speaking like a villain from an existential horror story.
He knows he is the corpo villain in a cyberpunk story and he is enjoying every second of it.
Onlive failed, Stadia just failed, next cloud platform will fail, another cloud stream next will also fail. Yes! Cloud gaming is the future!!!
That up there with "you will own nothing and be happy" for ominous doublespeak.
@@toututu2993 OnLive didn't necessarily fail, Sony bought , turned it into PS Now, then recently rebranded it as PS Plus Premium. I still won't support it, but there you go.
Stadia charged full price for games on top of the service fee. My guess is that legal told them that if they didn't refund the class action lawsuits against them would be an open and shut case because of consumer laws
Makes sense, games can't be a service when the service is a separate purchase.
@@rhemorigher I think its also because one of the competitors in that market, Amazon Luna, is already under the microscope. They were selling microtransactions in some of their bigger titles, but if the server decided to roll back or went down, even if a user manually saved, they lost that purchase alongside their save. But were still charged for that purchase. It's better to set the standard with a refund, then become the standard I'd assume?
Man. This makes three major shutdown events in one week: the Atlus situation, Stadia finally tasting sweet death, and Overwatch gearing up to kick the bucket to make room for Overwatch 2. Wild week.
If Overwatch had been free2play game to begin with, then that decision could have been more understandable but when you have ppl who have actually PAID for the game and then you just make it so that Free2play sequel replaces it so that the game you bought becomes useless....thats some big stinking pile of bullshit...
This quote gives me that "you will own nothing and you will be happy" vibe. Feels straight evil, well because it is.
another thing to mention is not just the full exclusive games that will be lost to history, but exclusive *content* for already existing games. on twitter, as soon as the news of stadia finally keeling over dropped, i remember seeing tweet after tweet from certain final fantasy xiv players complaining that google was robbing them by taking away not the game *itself* of course, they somehow hadn't realized that part yet, but specifically some additional content or minigame or something that was stadia exclusive. i guess that also goes to show you just the kind of audience that kept stadia alive all these years was like, and the sheer level of ignorance regarding what the end result of this sort of business model meant for them. sad thing is they'll probably jump straight on the next opportunity to pay for another streaming gaas hellspawn stadia substitute service the moment it comes out and keep perpetuating the cycle. dark days are ahead folks, remain vigilant!
You know its bad when you totally agree with an alien invader from outer space
9:55
He literally said "You will own nothing and will be happy".
He literally said it
You vill game in ze pod
@aMiFiii go live on a pod eatze boogs and take ze droogs then
'The same happened to movies and photos and my docs and other files'
No it didn't. Either those are local or they are local AND online so I still have the local files if the cloud backup shuts down.
If Dropbox goes down all those files will still be on my PC and laptop.
@aMiFiii anything on the cloud is downloaded and temporarily made local...
@aMiFiii Then go to the arcade if owning things bothers you so deeply
A bit anecdotal I know, but for music you rearly hear about it getting lost. Most of the time lost music is unreleased or tied to a bigger project like a movie. Most music you can listen to right now even really rare things like unreleased songs. This is because of the long held tradition of bootlegging. Like right now you can listen to a unreleased Nirvana song. That is really the difference between games and music though where as all you need to keep a song around is something to record audio or, if you're talented, to hear a few times and transcribe it. Compared to games where once it's gone it is gone. I would say emulation, but in some cases that can't help. It's telling when most hunts for lost music is hunts for who made the music and not the music itself.
People have recreated some lost games/cut content from available screenshots, descriptions and leftover data in released games. But that's a lot more effort and guesswork than re-recording a lost song...
That said, notice how few significant lost games (not counting unreleased early dev builds there are from the 80s/90s. Even the game "streaming" of the time (Satellaview, SEGA Channel, etc) is preserved. Then they upped the DRM and dev secrecy on consoles and everything went downhill.
I'm a soundtrack guy and have been collecting music to save on my hard drive locally because I despise music streaming services and want everything as close to me as I can. Music is art, at least, the stuff I find valuable.
Video games are a lot harder to preserve.
man also have you noticed how much more lax all the rights stuff was a couple decades back, they wouldn't bother using a lot of those songs anymore knowing they either couldn't afford it or couldn't afford getting multiple-dipped on each separate release format.
we need to ban lawyers immediately if not sooner. I dont get how they're legal, they're like lobbying except for just one person at a time. or bribery with extra steps.
@@Wuerfel21 Polybius was one of those lost games. Some dev studio made their own version of it and put it on PS4.
You would be surprised by the amount of music that's hard to find, even on the internet
10:02 Literally "you will own nothing and will be happy" statement.
Damn!
That reddit AMA response actually got my blood pressure up holy shit...
Rapid fire Rossposting is a treat.
I feel your pain, Ross. It is not just computer games that are bad. The whole of IT is now a crapsaccharine dystopia, as Tvtropes calls it.
Sometimes I just want to move to the country and found a llama farm, but I know I would still have to deal with IT and the Internet, so I would suffer either way.
I saw a movie where Nicholas Cage takes care of Alpacas.
@@Accursed_Farms Oh? I see it is an adaptation to Lovecraft's The Color Out of Space, so I must watch it now. Thanks, Ross!
*crapsaccharine added to lexicon*
@@Accursed_Farms You would think llamas and alpacas would be similar to raise, but they're pretty different. To the point where sometimes llamas are used as guard "dogs" for alpacas, because of their different usages as ranch animals. I think Nic Cage picked the right call with alpacas. They're easier to deal with.
You wouldn't have to deal with anything if you didn't want to. You just have to make sacrifices. The Amish live without all sorts of modern amenities.
It's over, the cloud platform that (some) people thought would take over the market. NOPE! Thanks for the news and updates Ross!
EDIT: The Culling 2....ahh.....what a tragedy.
Not so fast! Amazon Luna is here to take the reins.
In all honesty, as much as I hate cloud gaming (and I do very much hate it), it might be the only future we have left. Just look at the current generation of consoles. 2 years in and people are still struggling to get a ps5, and now even Xsex is in low supply (according to the latest news I heard). The market is too big now, supply can't keep up. They can't scale production up so much to satisfy every consumer. And this is only going to get worse.
Not too many. Once those interviews over what the Stadia was going to be (before it came out), I think it successfully killed nearly all hype for everyone except the most die-hard Google-Glass fans.
People thought it was going to be Netflix for games? Well yeah kinda except you still have to pay for everything full price as though you just bought the game normally lol. People wondered about what would happen once Google stopped supporting Stadia? They got the most vague corporate "We plan on making sure everyone is satisfied" non-answer that let everyone know that once Google stopped supporting it all your games were gone. And finally for the people that thought it might run nearly flawlessly over cloud? There's an unacceptable level of delay between button press and response in-game. Important to note that that was at a kiosk that was meant to show off the Stadia to the public at large in the middle of a huge city with some of the most optimal internet you could ever hope to have, let alone out in the sticks.
People that paid attention were extremely worried when Stadia was first announced what it might mean for games in the future. The more info we obtained, the more and more it became apparent that it was just another hair-brained Google experiment that wasn't trying that hard in the first place. And as for the normal uneducated crowd? Who really wanted something that ran so shitty and was so complicated for almost the same price as just buying a dang console?
Used psnow and it works fine, get better internet?
JcGross The market could just shift to computer gaming like back in the early 00s. Or companies can just slow down the pace of new console releases so the supply doesn't get exhausted every seven or so years.
I'd pick either of those over cloud/stream gaming. And I assume both of those are far easier to accomplish than moving the entire industry over to a barely working structure.
@@JcGross93 " it might be the only future we have left. " there are enough (great) indie games to choke an entire llama farm. Stop looking to the AAA space and corporations for the future of gaming.
This might be the single best Dead Game News video yet. Thanks for being a voice of sanity in the midst of this anti-art barbarism, Ross.
Stadia to me was a monument to my fears regarding product ownership. I had this fear when digital ownership was getting traction and disks were slowly becoming less popular.
Seeing Stadia die is seeing that monument crumble, and it feels good.
Excellent video quality as always! I look forward to more
İt's a small crack in the monument at best, if you ask me
Seeing Stadia die is the equivalent of somebody breaking off the nose of the monument, only for the Great Leader to announce they're commissioning an even bigger monument. Out of titanium.
Seeing Onlive died already tell that Stadia will fail without a brain cell
But you don't even own the intellectual property on the disk either technically speaking.
Sadly this will not be taken as "streaming games is a bad idea" but "it was a Google service so what did you expect, but streaming games as such is dope af".
Honestly, I had completely forgotten Stadia existed. While part of me realizes the threat something like Stadia poses, the other part immediately dismissed Stadia itself as a non-threat. From day one it seemed obvious to me this thing would fail and die. It took longer than expected but it was always headed here. All that said, I get what you're saying and I also hope Stadia shutting down scares the industry away from this kind of product for a good long time.
"I felt the same way when music was transitioning from files to streaming. I still have all of my old CDs in the garage... although it's hard to find a CD player these days" I never stopped buying CDs (although I don't buy many new ones since I'm "out of touch" with modern rock and I have most of the music from the 1970s and 1980s I want already) so I sure as heck am not going to want to ever stop owning games either.
And while he may not be able to find CD players in every store that used to sell them (of those that are still open) but they're still being made for people that want them and they're easy enough to buy online.
Heavy Metal has been seeing a resurgence for the last decade and most of them have CDs or if they get enough label money or scrounge enough on their own vinyl
I know a guy that collects old phonograph records. A year ago I gifted him some ~80 year old records I found in my late grandmother's flat. He played them. It all worked.
So his CD analogy really sucks, because it's nowhere near the same. Records that can be almost a hundred years old can still be played, but games released just a couple years ago will be impossible to access.
this was also a false dichotomy: if you have a cd you can make digital backups and listen to them on whichever discless devices you have. If you only use streaming, you aren't necessarily allowed to make a cd backup nor listen to them on all of your devices. As OP said, they were heavily invested in ThE cLoUd, which is a pretty strong conflict of interest when it comes to attempting a fair review of what's actually being offered.
His argument about digital files, CDs and streaming is fallacious. Files and CDs you own are one thing, streaming is something else, they shouldn't be compared like he does.
I really felt the sting of streaming music when an artist removed one of my favorite songs from SoundCloud and I now have no means of even looking up the author. It just vanished from my liked music and is now gone forever.
Ross, I know you don’t need me to say this, but I appreciate your voice on this platform SO much. TOO many people believe that speaking out about the corporate corruption of gaming is just “putting politics in gaming.” Those people are just cowards who are afraid of confronting opinions that challenge their world view and comfort. So thank you and keep going!
As a hobbyist archivist I'm glad that at least some people understand the risks involved in a service such as stadia and are concerned about the possible repercussions of this style of media """""ownership""""".
Also on a similar note, Ross, have you heard about RUclips's trial at restricting qualities higher than 1080p to premium users? It's got quite the discussion going in the datahoarding IRC chatrooms.
When all the lights burn out and humanity is relegated to living as AI within a dyson shell around a black hole... One jackass will connect to the collective with an IRC client.
>restricting 4K to premium members
ew
That sounds bad.
@Dilbot "data hoarding" is the casual term for non-professional data archivists.
"IRC" is 'internet relay chat', basically the oldschool text messaging chatroom. That being said I'm not really familiar with it beyond basic use as it was already basically dead when I was getting on the internet for the first time but some small communities still use it.
i feel like nobody needs higher than 720 and that's... a BETTER thing to charge money for than most of the nonsense they try to charge people for or riddle them with ads..
also hey some of us still use IRC...
The part about games being safe and snuggly in the cloud got me. Got me good.
Something that disturbed me was how Stadia actually had it's ardent fans, even though everyone who pays even the slightest bit of attention to the game preservation issue in the industry saw this shutdown coming from the very minute it was announced. Comments upon comments, arguments upon arguments, all wasted time for a foregone conclusion. We were not just fighting with corpos on this one, we're fighting with extremely short sighted people who are way too trusting and don't have any foresight or pattern recognition; It sucks, but I'm glad that there weren't enough of them to make Stadia a success.
The negative latency idea was based off of the frameahead feature of some emulators (like Retroarch). It’s not a higher frame rate, it’s running another copy of the game a few frames in the future, using the current inputs. When the input changes, wind back to the current time, and then fast forward a few frames. It only works for a few frames at a time, but for emulators it’s able to reduce the input lag to be lower than the original hardware in some cases. However, applying it to streaming games, while plausible, might not actually work with how high the latency can get.
That seems horribly innefective compared to what most (mature) emulators, which is to simply bypass whatever legacy input drivers exist and just port it to a modern standard. Unless this is one of those very specific cases where purists want the game to both behave 100% as with original hardware but also have reduced input?
@@ricardobelogeneralplastro1319 Still too slow. Even in the best cases you’ll have input lag because of all the extra levels of hardware involved compared to something like a hardware nes controller. Even more so with modern tv lag compared to crts.
We know what "negative latency" actually was in code, but the term was marketing BS they hoped nobody would question but that only made them more of a joke. 🤦
@@opx-tech maybe its specific to NES somehow? Cause its hard to believe the NES, somehow, outperforms a modern bus speed plus a vastly faster PC CPU. The emulator overhead (of a mature project) is negligible compared to much slower hardware of those consoles.
A good emulator will even remove said hardware lag from the original, so the responsiveness is even better.
This is certainly true for PS1 emulators such as Duckstation. I been playing Ace Combat series for the PS1 and 2 and the input experience is vastly better on the PC (Duckstation and PCSX2)
@@ricardobelogeneralplastro1319 It's fast on the nes because it's a simple direct circuit between the button and the console, so if the code needs to check if a button is pressed, it just checks if that circuit is closed or not. When you have an os involved (and for that matter, other hardware components), there's more levels of indirection that the signal has to go through to let the code know a button is being pressed - for example, the code checks a memory value which says if the button is pressed or not, but that memory value may be updated every 30ms by the driver code that's running in a separate thread.
Also, it seems Duckstation has runahead too (that's the term I meant to say earlier), at least for two years now. Not sure if it's on by default, I don't use that emulator myself.
That whole comment at the end, how everything is safe up there in the cloud and all, might as well have been the introductory speech delivered by some hooded figure to join their cult. Your earthly existences are temporary - but the cloud, my children, is forever.
I think the core of the problem here is (and it isn't limited to games AT ALL not even a little bit) that if a company can figure out a way to charge you twice for a single product, they absolutely will do it. If a company can make money twice from a single product, they absolutely will do it. If a company can give you less for the same price, they absolutely will do it _with gusto._ And if, having gotten away with selling you less for twice the price, they can sell you less and less for three or four times the price, that's what Business(tm) will be forever.
It's Net Neutrality all over again. Without it, an ISP can charge you a monthly fee, sell you bonus expansion packs for "Feature" websites, AND charge website owners to be counted as "Feature" websites, which would mean ISPs would be making three times as much money off LESS service than they're selling now. Less because they'd throttle non -prime- -plus- -access- Feature(tm) websites to essentially impossible to connect to, forcing websites to pay out the ass to MULTIPLE ISP companies' "Feature" "premium" "this is what you used to have by default but now you gotta pay for it because fuckyou that's why" "services", or to simply fold up and die because why even have a website if nobody can visit it.
It's death because if this shit becomes standard, it's going to kill the industry. Short-term? Yeah, lots of profit. A big, giant bonfire of money. And then? People won't want to spend their ever-shrinking spending money, game companies will sell less of their triple-price-half-the-product junk, they'll catastrophically skyrocket prices to keep income the same, death spiral every game company goes bankrupt.
Except the small indie ones who _don't_ do this stuff, obviously, but like how Google would definitely try to recoup its losses of having to pay a fee to be Feature on YourISP.web by having paid search results only, indie game companies are gonna go extinct long before the bigger game companies go bankrupt. Because they'll have hunted them down and killed them, like Walmart does to smaller businesses.
Move in, kill all the smaller competitors, jack up the prices, economic collapse, theft increases, profits crash, shocked pikachu face.
This is absolutely predictable. A blind man could see it coming. Literally; I'm legally blind. But companies don't see past the next financial quarter and shareholder satisfaction.
Look at what happened to Target Canada. Botched launch, failed market research, slow recovery, pull the plug set fire to everything and sell the pieces for scrap, because sticking it out and becoming profitable a few years later than planned is less optimal than just putting three hundred thousand people out of a job.
_This shit isn't new._
But Net Neutrality was repealed and none of the predicted catastrophes happened...
In the Black Mirror episode, Ross mentioned that he'd like to learn about the end times in the classiest way possible, with a well-spoken butler coming to tell him as he wakes up that dark bloody clouds are blotting out the sun and a storm that will never end has started. His channel is kind of like that for me, what a nice and refined way to digest the end of the gaming world, or even the world in general sometimes.
The war on ownership (and as an extension preservation) isn't going to stop with games. This is just the first town that gets ravaged.
I remember when I was a kid and didn't know how to download games at all and only knew about a few flash games and played those, becoming sad when a site got taken down. As an adult, I know how to download flash games, run the stand-alone flash player, and even go to places that have backups of games long lost. But then there's the death of flash on browsers, which still effects me because now if I want to make sure it's the game I was looking for, I have to gut it from the site, download, run and play it for a bit to make sure it doesn't need on-site permissions to run as it should. I hate that people become comfortable with the removal of a thing just because they didn't actively use it, despite how much it has been used for things they see in their day to day.
For what it's worth to you, have you heard of Flashpoint? Look it up, it's a great archive for all the old flash games and uses some clever tricks to make all the games run properly as though they were on their original sites.
@@boneiy Yeah, true, but getting Harry Potter and Hermione's MILF to play on that was still a bit more of an obscure pain than I'd have liked.
Ross mate, thank you so much for these news pieces, thou they aint getting that many views, i find these extremely crucial and important!
The more frustrated Ross gets with the AMA the worse his driving gets ❤️❤️❤️
The "Awwwwwwwww" followed by the carebear cloud image, just murdered me, and didnt even have the decency to bury me publicly. My eyes are still watering as i type this...
I remember my friend pitching the google game streaming service long before it launched, and I had a lot of pushback because losing even more of the ownership over our games, is something I consider cataclysmic. Games are in a bad enough state as it is, and I'll probably never see games become great as long as I live.
Man I was counting the days until this video happened for almost a year.
Excellent video, and it's good to see there are still some out there who care about how our games are preserved.
You've probably been asked before but will you cover Overwatch's shut down? It feels strange that the company is forcing you to move to another product that is monotized differently and has a different gameplay (5v5) than the original (6v6). They are celebrating the fact they killed their baby and are offering you parts of it's corpse for you to enjoy.
wont be the first time they did that, and they completely got away with it.
not only forcing you to move to another product, but also forcing you to attach yet another vital piece of information about yourself (phone number) to play it..
@@cacycay the genius who came up with asking for your phone number really needs to be asked whom the fuck they think they are exactly
@@thewayfarer8849 well, on the other hand, my boyfriend thinks it's a good thing, he said "it'll help prevent cheating, if they did that to cs:go most problems would go away. smurfs are also less likely to go out and buy fake numbers just to play the game." and something else.. but that's still a very stupid take. cheaters wouldn't be a (that big of) a problem in a properly managed game.
@@cacycay What's the worst thing off of giving you phone number to Blizzard? I mean comparing to them being able to check your IP or connecting your Battle Net Account with your social media.
We're on the same page with this one.
I haven't paid any attention to stadia in ages, but when it was a trendy topic among my peers a few years ago I felt extremely iffy about it specifically due to this possiblity. With something like steam, I at least have the option to back up the executables and downloads on portable hard drives and use offline mode if the service shuts down, but I've no interest in using something like Stadia. Even if I had enough bandwidth for it.
@@torrasque0151 also there should be a modified steam client where games are downloadable peer to peer, torrent style. That would be interesting.
Ah the developer of Harkius War. Please seeing you have good taste.
Unfortanately there are some games (and there will be a lot more of them) out on Steam and other platforms that are kind of live-service. If the devs/company that makes them don't make it possible to keep playing or give modders the possibillity to keep it alive then a lot of games will be unplayable. Ross already covered games like these that are already dead.
I mean Stadia was not even news where I live. Internet in my country and specifically this part of the country is so shit, nobody could've feasibly used Stadia.
@@KingLich451 Steam actually does have this to an extent now for steam deck. You can download a game from your main PC to Deck for a faster download instead of straight from Steam's servers
Dead games news with a depressing visceral billboards in the background occasionally really wraps it up
I'm still waiting on more news for the American Innovation and Choice Online act, which would make prevention of sideloading apps illegal, unless it could be substantially proven that doing so creates a genuine security risk.
Ok so my guess on the refunds is that while Stadia was a live service with a Games as a Service model, a lot of those games weren't free. I'm sure one of Google's lawyers looked into it and saw a massive potential legal backlash if Google just nuked Stadia users game libraries almost out of nowhere after just saying that the Stadia service wasn't shutting down. So now Google is refunding Stadia users to legally cover their asses because full refunds is still a hell of a lot cheaper than to have your lawyers go to court and do lawyer things on your behalf.
I'm not sure I buy this, I would need to see the legal distinction as to why that would carry liability, but shutting down Battleforge, Darkspore, Lawbreakers, etc. doesn't.
@@Accursed_Farms Fair enough. I'm not a lawyer so I'm hypothesising here. But what I do know is that Google is not a generous company to just be giving out refunds. This all smells like Google doesn't want to be caught in some massive technical legal shenanigans.
I feel there's something that often goes unsaid about game subscription services that are a major problem that get no attention: the way payment affects design choices in games, even outside of exclusives. If a company offers payout based on time played, for instance, then games will evolve to try and squeeze more and more time out of the players. Skinner boxes are bad now, but if revenue is directly tied to time in-game like that? All of a sudden that's affecting games *across the board.* Indie games, AAA games, and all things in between will have to account for that, trying to compete not just for mindshare, but for the outright time of players. The most effective methods for this are all used by casinos already, trying to keep your attention inward, constantly moving from place to place. Even if the machines were free, they'd still be doing the most to keep you looking.
This is all very rambling, I hate streaming services in general for what they've been doing to media, but I work in games. This stuff scares me.
That's World of Warcraft for you. They delay the content they already made, just so people can pay another whole month of subscription
Nah, you are thinking of it in the wrong way
Xbox and even more so BGS figured out the proper model already
Pay the company/creator what their product is worth and or fund it form start to finish, contract a returns percentage based on userbase via subscription or post launch sales. That's all you have to do
Everyone else has been using the EA model of "we literally don't care what you do as long as you bring in x amount of dollars and don't go over budget", which forces companies to add in loot boxes/in game currency because it guarantees they hit their contractual quota
That is also what drove gaming trends for the past decade with everyone trying a modified version of the Skyrim/Witcher 3 model(except nobody actually made anything like skyrim or Witcher 3 because those are start to finish single player games without any extra costs past single payment dlc) and it shows a lack of faith in their product idea
That's a distressing but very thought-provoking thought. Just look at the way streaming has already impacted the development of film and television.
@@victorkreig6089 "That's all you have to do" is what you use to bring in developers at the start, but as time goes on, the profit incentive increases. Those deals start existing only for specific big names while anything smaller than major tentpole releases get shafted. We've seen this sort of thing with effectively every streaming service as time has gone on.
@@Psilocervine and yet Microsoft has smashed every prediction of them going par the course like everything else
You might be right if this were say year 2
But it's been going for more than 5 now
Predicting an eventual failure is fine but when you pretend they are basically going to do something guarenteed when they've shown the opposite for multiple years now you're being overly negative
5:35 What I find even worse and less excusesable is when they removed viewer-made captions. And it was only half a month after I made my first YT subtitles, which were for your Star Trek video!
I was googling the topic the moment this popped up, great timing as always
My response when I saw the news was that this is a good thing. Maybe it'll be big enough to wake people up to the reality of streaming games.
Nah. Stadia was a test drive. When the tech catches up your kids will eat it up.
@@kauswekazilimani3736 Bold of you to assume I'll have kids.
No way. They'll justify it because of the refund. Sooner or later the population of the planet will surrender all its rights. Stupidity is infinite.
@@noahwilliams8996 😂
@@kauswekazilimani3736 The tech is here. ISPs simply refuse to do away with data caps or even spend money on upgrading infrastructure. And that isn't going to change any thime soon.
Our kids will be downloading 2.5 TB games with the same data speeds we're using. Probably earning the same miminum wage that zoomers, millennials and gen-Xers got.
I love how it was advertised as a low cost alternative while requiring a 100+ bucks Internet connection to be able to play kek
That reddit post of that Stadia guy gave me eery flashbacks of a conversation I had with a guy trying to sell me on NFTs
I love that AMA reply. "What'll happen if the service is shut down? Will we be refunded?" "The cloud is great! Embrace the cloud! It's all fine. Next question please." "But you didn't even reply to--" "Next. Question." Not a single thing was said in regards to the actual question, which really could mean one of two things. Either a: He *knew* full well you'd lose stuff and probably not get anything back barring them snap-deciding based on some likely EU law against that, and really did NOT want to say so thus a non-answer.. or b: He had no clue either, and shared those concerns but his higher-ups hadn't said anything and he knew saying they didn't have a plan would get him fired. Whenever a pointed question is asked and you get a non-answer, it's because they know people won't like the truth.
This reminds me when C-suite executives would practically cream themselves at the mention of "cloud", but would also be the first to backpedal on the initiative once they saw the bill.
Agree with you completely on the refund part. They sure as 100% predicted some legal problems there. Was my first thought too.
This was the greatest dead game news ever! Then again, i am seriously drunk right now, so that might have an affect on my perception right now. Thanks Ross for doing this!!
just a little more drinkypoo... For celebration!
@@KingLich451 hooray for Tuesday!
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance"
One of my favourite sayings is "Cloud is not magic. Cloud simply means "someone else's computer"."
Another one is, "If you don't have backup copies, you don't own your software, you're just leasing it from fate."
"So yeah we can rest easier - but no, we can't at all really!"
Story of my damn life
11:30 When doing an expected value calculation, the magnitude of the gain or loss is often more important than its likelihood of happening. The likelihood of anything happening is capped at 0% and 100%. But the loss or gain can be infinite. Suppose you have a 90% chance of losing $10 on a given transaction and a 10% chance of gaining $1,000 on that same transaction. In that case, your expected gain on that transaction is $1,000*0.1 - 0.9*10 = $91. So your expected gain is still positive even though you will likely lose money. So the things that you should act as if they will happen are not necessarily the most likely things, but the most consequential things. That is why you should assume that a gun is loaded unless you know better, and why Tsun Tsu said that the key is not to rely on the likely hood of the enemy not attacking, but to make our position unassailable. They key is not to rely on the likelihood of things happening. The key is to make the worst case scenario, as good as possible. Edit: Actually, it should be: The key is to assign appropriate weights to possible gains and losses by their magnitude and likelihood of happening and compute the expected value based on those weights. In other words: make the average scenario as good as possible.
Yeah, I was cutting corners, this is a better answer.
You especially see the difference for repeating events!
If I just get that gamble once, Imma refuse, because I'll most likely just lose 10 bucks.
But of I know that I can *farm for * good results? Let's get gamblin'!
The likelyhood of oversimplifying or misstating something on the internet and having someone appear with a more comprehensive statement is immense. Sun Tzu would have done it (with puppet accounts so you'd never know it was him) 🤭
@@youtubeuniversity3638 Its only a gamble if the expected value is negative or zero. If the expected value is positive, then its an investment.
@@Sewblon Nay, friend, investments ARE gambles.
Just a matter of whether it is a "rich" or "poor" person one.
I'm getting "Creepy doomsday suicide cult" vibes from that AMA response.
The cloud is just other people's computers, not some magic zone
I literally thought to myself, word for word, "oh no, not Stadia..." when I read the title, then I saw the top left corner of the thumbnail lol
Willing to bet that Google opted to offer refund because it's a high risk of fallout from even winning a class action against them. They don't want to risk laws being passed to prevent the restriction of paid for digital media.
Mr. Scott, your way with words paired with your impeccable logic and gamer-honed wisdom have hit the mark once again. All I can say is that it bothers me that the various people who NEED to see (and understand!) the problems highlighted in this video will probably not ever have it on their screens.
Thanks as always for fighting the good fight.
own, don't rent
Love ya Ross, thanks a lot for making all this content, it brightens my days.
"Hey neighbor, I need my powerwasher back. You said you'd only need it for a week."
"Nothing in life is certain."
"That's not true, because you are CERTAINLY an a-hole."
"Eventually all of your possessions will be in my garage, and we'll feel great about it!"
@@MagnetismR "I knew we shouldn't have moved next to the Google household..."
Really curious about Ross's thoughts on Overwatch becoming inacessable to be replaced by Overwatch 2.
saying "nothing in life is certain" as an excuse for something bad is like saying we are all going to die anyway so why have healthcare and doctors?
Andrey can choke. "Moving to the cloud is scary", treating the guy like a child while also blowing right over the important part of that question. Also I'll bet you the Stadia hardware spied on all kinds of things, and a full refund is the slickest way to get all that proprietary tech back home. Like a deposit refund on Coke bottles.
Truly poetic closing statement.
That you so much Ross. It’s nice knowing that we, who care about game ownership and preservation, have a bright example to look up to.
"Unless some major news comes up as I am editing the video" meanwhile Overwatch shuts down today.
Yeah but Overwatch 2 is literally the same game and it's free anyway.
At 7:00, I can't help but think that shot showing "Visceral Games" was deliberate
Ross, Idk if you’ve looked at Apple Arcade… There are full-blown, exclusive games there that are service exclusives. And many mobile games simply do not work without internet. I know mobile games are so heaped with other issues that it’s almost like talking about another industry entirely, but I don’t think that we should just continue to ignore the single most influential part of gaming from the last 20 years. Mobile games paved the way for much of the disgusting monetization practices we see today.
Good for bringing up this point. Dont know much about mobile games but if its any bad as it seems, Ross is going to have a field day if the rage is managed safely.
I can't help but appreciate how passionate and vindictive Ross gets on this topic, I'm glad to see there are people out there upset that something so preventable is allowed to happen and has just been swept under the rug over and over despite it going to only get worse with the rise of companies wanting to make games as a service.
Pretty much all of the stadia exclusives got ported already luckily, lol even Crayta a game creation "tool" like fortnite that was supposedly 100% exclusive got ported. Except the 5 ones that you showed but the devs of Gyst already confirmed that they will port the game to other platforms, I hope that the rest follow them too, PixelJunk Raiders looks worth saving in my opinion.
A small thing, but it really annoys me that Gyst isn't pronounced in the same way as Myst.
@@TheSmart-CasualGamer Is it more like "Geist" instead of "gist"? Dammit, now I have that pet peeve too.
3 days for another Ross video? What?! Am in some alternate reality right now?? I'm so used to waiting longer ,but hey, this sure is appreciated.
Say it with me - "The cloud is just someone else's computer."
And before some nerd butts in with his "ACKSHYUALLY", thinking it will somehow invalidate this statement, I'll add: the cloud is just *a bunch* of someone else's computers.
it's just rent a computer
or rent a comp. Except you dont see the person, nor the machine.
Important video and a great one, too. Cloud storage is cancer. Physical for life. Keep at it, Ross.
Cheers, man.
"I hear you " Is corporate talk for. You cought me scamming you now let me lie to make it better.
No Stream. Tap to Retry
When you’re faster than RUclips on the notification
@@jackmoseley4959 Same lmao
I went to that "Killthecameraman" subreddit and the first two things I saw were a guy getting fried to a crisp walking on top of a train and a shootout/terrorist attack of some kind.
I'm glad you mentioned "publicly traded companies" it really makes all the difference, with private companies like valve you don't have this kind of mentality. Private companies want to make a profit & keep the business afloat, Publicly traded companies want ALL the money they can get, and they want it as fast as possible.
Valve/Steam still does questionable things, maybe less of them, but they still do.
You should look into workers' cooperatives. They have an even better incentive structure. Valve, in fact, is run in a semi-cooperative manner
I hope you know how much we appreciate your coverage and obsession with this topic (among everything else you do)
Ross, another game literally did die today. Overwatch 1 is shutdown in preparation for Overwatch 2 to take its place. Overwatch 2 is a free-to-play game with drastically difference game balance and monetization. There is no way to keep playing your Overwatch 1 disk. I'm so annoyed as an Overwatch fan.
"games that are running faster and feel more responsive in the cloud than they do locally"
That will NEVER be true, EVER.
Oh 100% there will be a rug pull on Gamespass, just like there was with Uber, Netflix, whatever, eat the initial loss, build a consumer base then profit on the ones who got used to it, it's the new strategy.
It's not really a new strategy, many companies take years to make a profit.
Twitter took over a decade - it's not unusual especially among technology companies.
"you will own nothing and you will be happy"
To be fair I don't think my life would've been the same without Google+ but yeah I'm happy Stadia's back out the door, unfortunately not nearly as quickly as NFTs but still
That snarky and condescending reply from Andrey Doronichev has the same energy as Don Mattrick saying "We have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity; it's called Xbox 360."