People: are mad that Crunchyroll made HGS instead of supporting the anime industry like they were supposed to HGS creator, trying to defend HGS: it's not an anime, it's a cartoon Like, yes thank you, that's exactly what we were mad about, glad you noticed.
At this point I think we're as mad about it being a cartoon instead of supporting the anime industry as we are about it being a shit cartoon instead of being at least a competent cartoon to soften the original blow.
@@neoqwerty pretty much this. It wouldve been one thing if it was at least halfway decent in either story or animation, because then it could be argued that although they weren't supporting anime creators they were still supporting skilled animators. But the show is a trainwreck in the writing department and is animated the same way all modern western cartoons are nowadays: by some unknown Korean studio who could do it for cheap to fill in for the animating skills that the Studio's own staff don't have.
The show featured a world where transition magic and transformation exist. They both do the same thing, but one requires a magical monthly treatment while the other requires nothing. That's not an animation problem. That's a story problem.
Yeah, it's really stupid to put these points in magical settings when you could solve it very easily with spells, for example a wish spell in DnD (maybe polymorph, even?). Would someone even suffer considering the option to freely turn entirely into another gender - and assuming magic here, the transition would essentially make you indistinguishable in any way from the gender you are trasforming into? I could only see that in a setting where that kind of magic is hard to have access to, and only to those whose social standing would hinder them from accessing it easily would that be potentially agonizing.
@@scrubscrub4492 there shouldn't be a difference, but because the writers wanted to inject real world trans people issues in a fantasy world where those issues wouldn't exist "transition magic" fills a spot that makes no sense in the story every time it gets brought up. its just a gender change potion, but then again this is the same writers that thought it would make sense to call water that rapidly ages things "healing water”
I told Raye Rodriguez that he had three years to think about his script and that thinking costs zero dollars at all. He then blocked me for it, the irony of him blocking me for it but being fine with Kate Leth is hysterical to me.
According to some research HGS was a concept he had on his mind for a while...but despite the big differences design wise in his characters...literally nothing changed about them. Rose, sage, etc were all the same character when they were just a concept. One thing about making Ocs is that, if you REALLY want them to be on TV over time you change who they are, give them new flaws, change their backstory, etc yet despite the amount of time he had to make these characters better for TV he changed NOTHING. He really hasn't gotten out of his teenage fanfiction phase has he?
The fact Raye tried pulling the homophobic/transphobic card makes me roll my eyes. A good chunk of the people who hate this show are LGBTQ+ community members.
I can't help but think the creators are saying "Stop saying our show is trash, it isn't our fault. If you hate it, your a damn idiot lol" Oh wait that's exactly what their saying. Wow Hollywood and all companies like to hire immature children who have a serious case of egotistical arrogance.
Also love how a problem is, not having a union. In this day and age, unions have lost any reason to exist. They are outdated and just a more expensive middleman that have no problem screwing their union members over a deal with the companies they benefit, the companies benefit, but the employees don't.
@@strategicperson95 Like having a Union would have solved a budget issue. LOL Unions don't magically make something better and they are definitely not involved in how much money a company agrees to give to another company for a product. Even if the union was involved in budget the union wouldn't have helped get more money from CR cause CR was having major issues after HGS was announced. CR was facing massive fallout from HGS as people were cancelling left and right for feeling like CR lied to them cause they gave money to a US based company to make what they claimed at the time a new American Based Anime, which they creators are now calling a cartoon. Also I needed to point out they used HGS announcement to hide the fact that there were multiple articles coming out about how they weren't paying their translators and sometimes not paying the power bill to their studio.
The _only_ way you can blame bad writing on a tight budget is if _they weren't being paid enough to care._ Just look at how many well known authors/poets died penniless. Money does not a writer make. They were either awful writers at the time (which could be rectified for future endeavors if they swallow their pride and learn) or they simply did not care. Or both. Probably both.
or getting an experienced writer for a show, having someone who does this for living can help a ton, it's pretty clear that what they made was more of a product than an actual show, if I had to be it became horrible and they had the supposed lack of budget was because people kept arguing over pointless stuff ending in a "you either agree with my idea or leave" instead of putting some tought into it
Honestly, I'm more impressed that they actually admitted the show was was bad...even if it was just for a few seconds. Also, hey Mr. Doorags. Your videos are really good.
So let me get this straight. The whole blame goes to the budget....... that's not going to fly. Anime studios have been scrapping the bottom of the barrel for budgets since forever. Even popular shows like AOT have struggled massively with budgets but they made it work. If you have a small budget than you need to downscale the project not just plough forward. Anime studios plan literally where every single penny is going. The design order for anime is storyboard the whole show, write script, get VA done (This can change but most Japanese anime do this before animating for synching purposes), Animating (Background including etc.) and than final touches like sound effects/music. You also can't blame poor writing on budget. If you were given an extra couple of thousand more you could have written something better? I'm being highly doubtful of that. Fan fiction are written for free and some of them are brilliant. Usually poor writing is down to the idea/story not being thought out enough or just poor execution.
Thank you! This is exactly what they need to hear. I can't tell you how many fanfictions I have read that I have sincerely enjoyed due to the good writing. Its few among many, but they're there. I'm so done with people saying that it's because they don't have a lot of money to work with - that crap doesn't fly with me. Writers don't start out with a million bucks, many authors start out piss poor.
The only thing you can blame “low budget” on is animation quality. Everything else, from the unlikeable characters and the awkward writing to the overused tropes and the bland world building, was ALL on Raye and the team. I cringed when Raye went “Writing? Budget.” THAT DOESN’T EVEN MAKE SENSE. Writing skill doesn’t come from money. It comes from talented, creative minds, which High Guardian Spice was severely lacking.
Exactly! (Text is a lil long) Like, does your brain need a few dollars to come up with scenarios in your head and actually make the characterstill fit in the setting? (which of course I myself still struggle with the latter, but come on man) Also with the animation quality, it also wouldn't matter with low budget, I mean look at season 1 of Kemono Friends, people liked the anime for the writing, despite the not so great animation. Look at the free Flipaclip users in the animation meme community like Zoe Nah, budget =/= good animation in their case.
Even that can't be blamed on budget entirely. The animation was done by a quality studio, and while done cheaply it was the story boarding and design that saw the animation turn out as it had. Like, even extremely low budget animation can be interesting if there's an interesting design that is used but if you start with bland and poor designs you're going to get bland and poor animation even if Studio Bones was doing it.
Oh hey, that's my tweet. Thank you for featuring it. I also replied to him again and pointed out that there will always be harassment for any project (regardless of the content, people love to riff on things), and that shutting down all critical discussion because of some hate is no way to go. As artists, we need audiences and critics.
Okay but there’s talented people on RUclips who don’t nearly have as much of a budget like these companies and come up with far better animations, designed characters and storylines. Freaking “God’s school” is made by one person. It’s just absolutely amazing.
I'll just say this. The people who worked on the original Transformers, G.I.Joe, and He-Man series had a hell of a lot more restrictions then Ray had with High Guardian Spice. These series where glorified toy commercials. They were made to sell products, and yet they still buckled down and did what they could to tell stories that were at least fun. If you want even more examples look no further then Lego Ninjago, Hot Wheels: World Race, and Hot Wheels: Accelaracers. Again all shows made to sell products, but they still managed to make some decent stories that are fun, interesting, and a little compelling. Budget and restrictions are NOT excuses for poor writing, shoddy animation, and bad management.
Hell, the Pokémon anime is probably just there to sell the games, and yet it's had several subseries and an extremely wide audience as a result despite its episodic format. At least it had an okay plot.
@@anasazmi8554 The pokemon anime iirc was glorified a commercial for the game and no one expected it to last for one season, but then it blew up and Nintendo rolled with it. Which explains why they are so insistent on keeping Ash and Pikachu as the MCs, it was never planned to have any kind of longevity and there might be a fear that switching the two out for new MCs would hurt the anime's (and its own exclusive merchandise) popularity.
Very true, if anything a smaller budget shows if you have that talent to make it or break it in the industry. I like took back at certain games, back in the NES/SNES Era, that were limited by their technology and had to do all sorts of tricks and work around to produce a solid game. The original Final Fantasy is a great example; little had little to no budget, that studio's last game and chance, and they pulled it off with, at that time, interesting enough writing, world building, gameplay, music, etc etc. In the end, it all depends on the craftsman, not necessarily their tools.
Dude, I write fanfiction as a hobby and man, it gets tiring. But I do it because I love to write and I hate what the creators are doing to the setting and characters. I have more outlines, designs, background info and plans for my main character than what HGS has for their entire show. I'm sorry to brag, but I'm just really proud of my main character and I just can't help but gush about him. But nah, man, nah. Nah, a small budget does not hinder the creative writing process, being lazy and not letting go of bad ideas hinders the creative writing process.
Amen! You said it perfectly! I write my own stories a bunch (not really fan fiction), and I can still make them far more masterful than this. I'm writing one now that I've been working on for 11 years! And you're right! I've had to go through and let go of a lot of ideas and I've improved because of it. No money needed!
I am writing a massive story for a project since 2021 and I spend time researching my own story to find holes, continuity errors, etc while trying to give all chars a plausible persona. Hobbies, depth, private life, backgrounds, family and their background, character development... I even develop a whole family tree over several generations, if I have to. Marriages, Divorces, etc. While I give the chars sexuality or a "way of diversity", its *not* the main focus. (Or have them scream, "I am gay" all 5 lines of dialogue lol, because wokeness seems to be like that) I don't want to have token chars, because the woke thought police says so. For example: If I want a lead investigator to be black, because I think it would be cool - he will be black and I give him a respectful role. Some chars have no face (or rather description how they look) by default, so it's up to the reader to decide in their mind. Is that person white? Black? Gay? Lesbian? Trans? It's up to them, so that is how I invoke the fantasy in the mind of the reader. And yes, I have LGBT-chars and got rid of the woke "non-stereotypical" stereotypes, you may never know which of them are LGBT unless there is a part, where they have sex or act in a "certain" way. If I want a char to be dead, that character will be permanently dead, no "Son Goku Comebacks" too. I am not even paid for that story. I do all that additional work, because I want it to be good.
The fact that Smiling Friends exists shows that HGS is full of crap when it comes to blaming things on budget. Even Smiling Friends use a PNG as a prop and they pulled it off better.
As a filmmaker myself, I can confirm: Budget has NOTHING to do with the quality of writing. I mean, I dunno if this counts, but my college projects had a budget of $0.00, and yet my classmates' reviews mentioned about how much they liked the story and writing. My payment was my assignment's grade, which was based on the quality of writing.
The same goes with animation. The budget doesn’t just make an animated series better. Heck weekly anime have less time then they did with their series that took years and it still looks much better. They don’t have an excuse imo.
Ok but LITERALLY THOUGH like this is such a good point. People who actually learn to make animation already operate on a lower budget and already put out better results.
They had two of the greatest voice actors in history, known for their villainous characters. They had Liquid Snake and Rita Repulsa's VA and they used them as *BACKGROUND CHARACTERS!!!* Why????
because crunchyroll is the anime equivalent of bethesda i.e incredibly lazy and incompetent see ex arm god of highschool the other web novel adaptations etc etc etc
Something that i learned from film class; never, ever expect your audience to think something is good from how much work was put into it behind the scenes. People only care about something if the end product that youre selling is worth buying, and if its not good in quality or wasnt passionate then that isnt the audiences problem, just as it isnt the consumers problem when you go to a store and the fresh produce isnt fresh or something else is wrong with it. At that point they just go to a different store. The fact is, again, nobody cares how much you care about a project or the time you spent on it if its not objectively good when they watch it. Thats business, and if they want to complain about criticism then they dont deserve to be in their position of the film business. Simple.
Blaming the budget for bad writing is a total lie. You can make a compelling story with absolutely zero budget... so they're either saying "we deliberately made the story bad because we werent paid enough", or "we're blaming the budget on the fact that our writers aren't talented enough"... I dont know which is worse
"Writing, budget" Then why is the One Punch man webcomic (drawn by One) loved by millions, despite having very basic art? It's because it's actually well written, something that the High Guardian Spice team can't seem to understand.
Man, it’s such a shame they didn’t have that extra budget or else the extra money would have helped them realise the difference between herbs and spices XD
I hope it gets renewed for a second season revolving around a different cast of characters. Starring: Nashville, Sweet Mesquite, Chili Verde, and Paprika!
the spices and herbs thing isn't that big of a deal when they can be considered both at once, its hardly the the most egregious thing about the show. that would be how its boring as sin.
As a trans person myself, that "monthly potion" explanation of trans people is the most watered down basic baby explanation for what being trans means I have ever heard.
My son introduced me to HGS and we couldn't finish it. I remember calling it a combination of fanfiction written by a 13 year old and a high school project. But I think a high school project might be better.
I’m not salty that it’s trash. I’m salty that Cruncyroll used OUR MONEY to fund a project no one asked for and flat out didn’t want. A lot of people signed up for Crunchyroll because we believed that some of the profits would go back to the Japanese creators. Not fund a virtue signaling pet project. I’m all for LGBT+ representation but… not like that. Not the way High Guardian Spice did it.
Stop giving Crunchyroll money. Crunchyroll is a bunch of puritanical westerners who hate anime and are only using the anime market as a source of income. They will purposely sabotage their customers because they hate over 75% of their customers. Just try to read what their team responds when people ask about bugs on their streaming site or product damage during delivery. They don't care, they just want money and will play dirty to get it!
If it isn't their fault, whose fault is it then ? *They* wrote a piss-poor script. *They* utilized crappy animation. *They* insulted people about the show before it aired. *They* created and developed the whole story and project from start to finish. *They* are at fault for the failures of *their* actions. Not anyone else.
@@undeadprincess5726 that's the thing, he doesn't want criticism of any kind because of how insecure of his work he is, he literally blocked RUclipsrs and anyone who gives any criticism, constructive or not, on Twitter.
So, as someone LGBTQ+, I can appreciate trying to bring representation to us, but at least make the characters well written. This isn’t particularly pandering, “woke” or even an offensively bad representation (take New Warriors or Q Force). The writing is just so underwhelming that the representation contributes nothing of value.
Honkai impact before all the new censoring from China is LGBQ couple done Right specially Kiana x Mei and Bronya X seele you see them as another person with the struggle . There is no hollier than thou because i bang another girl like western garbage the last of us 2 , and He Maam revelation . Also western media always potray lesbian as an ugly woman with muscle as big as Hulk and Juggernaut
Between this and the Arkh Project, I think it's safe to say that if your show/game promotes diversity over, y'know, a game or a plot, and you don't let the diversity just speak for itself, your project isn't going to be very good or it's a scam.
If the sparking phrase to build the character off of going in to the writing process has (insert race here), gay, lesbian, trans or "queer" in it, you have already failed as a writer. Because those things aren't the core of who someone is, but they're writing the character to orbit around that one trait because fucking... "We're progressive lmao". There's a reason Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss succeeded and this failed, because even with the characters where their sexuality is a huge component of the character, it's still just a part of the greater whole. Compare Angel Dust to Snapdragon or Sage. It's not even a competition. The latter two have 2-4 word depth while Angel takes a whole sentence to not miss vital parts. To demonstrate. Snapdragon: Insecure transgirl. Sage: Possessive cynical lesbian, repressive family. Angel Dust: Self-hating androgynous wise ass who abuses drugs to run from his trauma and pain, born into an era and culture that demonizes almost every aspect of his being, incapable of mustering the will to improve his situation he simply retreats into bliss with intoxication to cope and aggressively pursues sex to never confront his problems. Notice how Angel has enough depth I can go that far into a summary without mentioning he's a glowing stereotype collage crossdresser who fucks men? And Hazbin has WAY less material to convey all that. What, an episode length pilot, a music video, and like one comic about him. They established in under one hours' worth of material what Raye Rodriguez can't drum up in _twelve whole fucking episodes!_
The way they included LGBT+ representation in this show is the same as taking someone from x nationality and make it being just a living stereotype. As a french if I see a french character being included in a show and their whole personnality revolves around eating baguette, wearing a beret, and talking with a french accent, I wouldn't go like "wow I feel so included."
whenever I heard people critiquing the (quote/unquote) "D I V E R S I T Y" of the staff, it was more so because the first teaser for the show was just the staff circle jerking about how the show was an all-female/trans staff. nothing about the actual show or what it was about, only that it was the first all-woman staff for an American anime. so people were collectively groaning. not because the creators were women/trans, but because their tokenism was the only thing the CREATORS felt was note-worthy about it. HGS was dead in the water because the creators were so busy patting themselves on the back that they forgot that a story needs to be decently written to be successful and were practically bragging about it in the first trailer.
This is the epitome of a "This sounds like a you problem" It also has a lot of "I don't learn from my own mistakes I dont make any, other people do" feel. Just me?
Raye Rodriguez: "It was the budget, not us. That's why it wasn't written or animated well. We were roped in to the culture wars, we didn't dive in to it. The show is a cartoon on an anime service, not an anime" Toby McGuire's Peter Parker: "I missed the part where that's my problem"
“We have a very low budget!” “Ok, I can see why that happened with the animation but did it really affect the story? Does your brain run on money? Are you EA?”
"We started the storyboard before we finished the first script" Wow, really? That's..... a really stupid idea. Finish the script before you start getting animation sorted! That's OBVIOUS. He basically just said "The show is only bad because we had no idea what we were doing" Cause they CLEARLY didn't know what they were doing. When you're so incompetent your show has spice in the name and ALL of your characters are named after HERBS not spices! YOU CANNOT BLAME THE BUDGET FOR EVERYTHING YOU FUCKED UP! This show could have had unlimited budget, and still would be bad.
A talented chef can make amazing meals from the most ordinary ingredients. If they can't create any cartoon even with the appropriate budget then they're not talented enough to even have a bigger budget.
@@elder-woodsilverstein7716 It’s hard to tell with Rey Rodriquez, but the whole show was a clusterfuck of mismanagement. I’m amazed at the lack of responsibility with these people, there’s always something with them. The budget, the time constraints, all of this is a winded way of saying “we had no vision for this project”
@@elder-woodsilverstein7716 correction: began production in 2017, was set for release and finished production in 2019, then was delayed for 2 years for a 2021 release.
The thing I'm most surprised about is that it's maturity rating on IMDB is MA-15. Another thing I found interesting is that Rosemary, Sage, Parsley, Thyme and snapdragon are herbs not spices so the show should be called high guardian herb
Tbh, considering they were being discriminitive toward men at the beginning, and now are claiming they're being harrassed because they're lgbt, or for being a woman, it really seems like they just want to be the victim instead of taking criticism like a mature adult.
It's the classic offensive-defensive move that scammers use to justify why the money invested in they project mysteriously disappeared. The victim market is extremely lucrative for dishonest people to raise money from other people and end up with a project that looks like it was made by a 14 year old kid on DeviantArt using Powerpoint 2013. This is getting more and more common on the internet.
@@skootergirl22 To be fair, and I'm saying this as someone who feels apathy to mild contempt towards Steven Universe, it _was_ a good show. My nephews loved it when the early seasons first aired. _Then_ came the regular periods of hiatus.
That's how woke Twitter people thinks, they act like the very thing they hate then try to justify it by saying it's for the greater good and when people call them out on their bs they either pull the victim card or call them all these words like phobic or racist or whatever they can think up as if that's going to magically help them win the argument.
The self-awareness of Raye is shockingly nonexistent. Have they even looked at the same show we've slogged through? This show isn't ambitious in the slightest, it does absolutely nothing new, given the setting or the characters. There's no deconstruction of certain tropes, there's no unexpected plot twists to keep the story engaging; there's nothing here that hasn't been done before, and hasn't been done better. You wanna know a show that was ambitious(at least in my eyes)? Madoka Magica, a show that deconstructed the entire genre it was in, changing how Magical Girls were seen as overall. No happy ending for the heroes, more melancholic if anything. At the time, it was a show of it's own standing, because most Magical Girl shows followed suit of Sailor Moon; nothing overly dark or grim, that's what made it stand out and, I believe, be ambitious in that genre. HGS did poorly for a number of reasons, and the fact that Raye can't step back, look at the show, and see it's glaring flaws, poor writing decisions, and overall poor quality; and just blame it on budget, is that same reason why the show failed so hard. Raye needs to show some humility and accept that their team made a bad show, marketed it poorly, and just didn't gave the right people behind it in the first place. No one cares how "diverse" or "inclusive" your studio staff is, no one cares about your characters being fucking skittles; what people overall care about is a show that is consistent with it's characters, writing, and world building.
Their first highlight for the show was how diverse their team was and how diverse the characters are instead of... what they wanted to do and why they're qualified to do that job
"I, the lead of this project, have no responsibility of the failure of our objectively bad _anime._ Surely every other animation project had much better situations, support, & funding, we stood no chance." _He's_ tripping a little too much, don't ya'll think? The audacity....
It is their fault. Sorry, they wasted 2 years doing nothing then half-assed everything at the last minute. A small budget my ass. Crunchyroll had the money, so I don't want to hear it.
The statement we got, goes right into the sorta mindset we are dealing with here. No personal responsibility or accountability. They took money that was given to them to pay better Anime artist to make a mockery of said material. That's fraud, plane and simple. They knew what they where doing and they made what they wanted to make. In there mind this is what anime *should be* . Ideological Agenda First! Quality, writing, animation, art, and creativity Last. The only thing Zealots are interested in creating is More Zealots. I've seen passionate animators do so much more with nothing in there pockets. There going to blame the budget! No one looks at that guy who creates these elaborate sand castles on the beach for nothing. Then looks at little Timmy with a bucket shaped pile of sand and sais... "Lil timmy could have done that if you just given him more money." Money wasn't there problem, The fact the ""creators"" where a gaggle of self obsessed ideological morons was! Ergo these anti creative self obsessed morons made a Shallow self absorbed Ideologically driven show bereaved of any sort of creativity... That No one asked for. So when it fails, Its EVERYONE and EVERYTHING else's fault. Best yet these are the exact same people who are completely devoid of any sort of humanity compassion or empathy for anyone who doesn't think exactly the same way they do. Yet when there on hard times, where supposed to feel sorry for them. NO you giant children stole some other kids money, spent it on candy and spray paint, vandalized the house of the kid you just robed from. You are NOT the victim here! You are the bully.
Alright…..so the animation sucked because of “low budget”. Fair enough. Meanwhile almost all the criticism I’ve seen has been about how they hated the character designs, characterization, and plot. Things that have little to nothing to do with so called lack of budgeting. Did their lack of budget cause them to hire terrible writers? Because I’ve literally seen complete amateurs re-writing the plot for a joke and have them do a much better and more comprehensive job Edit: never mind I see a retweet’s basically said the same thing
They were "roped" into the culture wars? Wasn't it more like they roped the culture wars into their advertising, their twitter feeds, their plots, their ideologies, their...etc.?!
"People compare HGS to anime because it's on CR, but It isn't anime, it's cartoon made with the same pipeline as any other American cartoon" That is one of the biggest problems with High Guardian Spice. (Independent the bad animation and writing) People pay Crunchyroll to see anime not America cartoons. That they have used that money to make a american cartoon insted of buying licenses for others animes or create a true anime i find it an insult.
@@remixchild Yeah, in the trailer, some guy said that "they're making something that *western cartoons* forgot how to do", yet most of the work is from an Asian studio. Tell me how that makes sense
That they started doing storyboards before a finished script definitely explains a lot about how this show turned out. That’s not being on a budget, that’s simple mismanagement. Did they not have a complete pitch put together after all that time trying to find a company to green light their show?
My guess is that Raye is very good friends with somebody at CR or one of CR's investors, and that's how he managed to get a show greenlit based on a few concept art sketches and nothing else, not even a script or short pilot.
2:52 Raye says: “Have empathy for the real human beings who did their best working on [High Guardian Spice].” Meanwhile Kate, a writer for HGS, says: “Kill all men!” Yeah, I got no sympathy for you guys.
They lost the right to empathy the moment they Hired Kate. Feminist like her (or even resembling her) can't write a damn thing. You get what you freaking deserve ya donkeys.
@@bibikawa1945 The best part of High Guardian Spice was when Sage said "It's Guardin' Time" and then spiced all over the audience. Truly the show of all time.
Love how the creator blamed the bad writing on budget as if i havent seen "fans"(as in people who saw the potential for what the show couldve been) write better plots for it in an afternoon
Raye Rodriguez just did an interview at Creative Block and he literally said "I'm an artist not a writer" and he said in that interview that they just started working on the story and writing during development. Raye never had a complete story in his mind. He was relying on his writers to work through the vague concepts he made. He also said that he only started thinking about world building after his pitch was approved but other than that it was all just concept with no storyline or main plot in place.
I actually agree that the problem was the budget. This show never should've gotten money from CR in the first place. If this show has been greenlit by a cartoon company like cartoon network or Nickelodeon there probably would've been much less backlash, but instead the money from anime fans that wanted to support the anime industry went to fund an American style cartoon. What did they expect would happen?
@@knightblade0188 "What? Don't you guys have phones?" That statement is just as bad as the old Microsoft CEO who said "we have a console for you if you don't want to be constantly connected to the internet, it's called Xbox 360" back when they revealed the Xbox one, guess how well that statement went over with people?
@@knightblade0188 you gotta look it up, the way he says it sounds like he's looking down on you. Soldiers on deployment used their 360s as target practice
I'd not be surprised if they'd pitched the show to CN and/or Nick unsuccessfully, and the problems inherent to the whole thing caused those networks to give it a hard pass. I mean, getting the money from CR under the circumstances they did absolutely ensured there'd be a large, vocal, and critical bunch of eyes on whatever they turned in. Given you're supposed to be turning up to those meetings with at least a rough estimate on what your minimum budget IS, because at the end of the day...you need to know how much at minimum you need. If it's not enough, yet you didn't walk away...
If Raye ever reads this, which I highly doubt: It's not that you had minority characters, but it's how POORLY they were written. It's not about how little your budget was seeing as most anime made even today are made with less of a budget than most American cartoons, it's because you cut corners that shouldn'tve been cut. It's not that you had a low budget that we're blaming your writing, but just how careless everything felt. Not ignorant; careless. Even the cheapest studio on Earth can make a masterpiece of written work if they put enough care into it. You released a bad show that had forced diversity, poor animation that cut way too many corners, worldbuilding that contradicted its messages, characters that were grating and almost too easy to hate (except Snapdragon), and what's worse: you had TWO YEARS to look over your work. Two years to proofread, two years to check for errors, two years to re-record lines or edit audio, two years to check the writing and imagery and match it to what Bible I hope you wrote for your world; TWO Years you had to fix it, but you didn't. Ignorance or stupidity can be fixed; Carelessness can't.
Dude, I saw someone drew an animatic about Snapdragon revealing she was trans, and even if it had no noise, i FELT SOMETHING with that small, pidly animatic with no sound and only drawings with the script under the lines. Legit, people who hate the show is writing better scenes via an animatic with, presumably, NO BUDGET.
All these creatives being so butt hurt and defensive because people don't like their creations or have some critical feedback for their work is really driving me insane. In art school, if you've got a good professor, they will metaphorically, sometimes literally, rip into your work to tell you how to improve. You learn to just disconnect your emotions from everything you make because a) it can always be better, even if you like it and are proud of it and b) there will always be someone or many people who don't like your work and you need to learn to deal with it. This whole 'empathy for the creatives who worked' is going too far to me. Yeah you can be compassionate to people, but creative needs to be critical of themselves when their work is just bad, or plan for a low budget and reduce the scale. If you can't be creatively ambitious, knowing what corners to cut to get the same product, you're just half-assing everything.
"Level of Creativity" is in no way interrelated to "Budget". They're not causal whatsoever. I've read fan-fiction that had far better characters, plots, and arcs than what this show had to offer...and fan-fiction is totally free. Fan-fic authors don't make money from their works. Crying "We were on a budget!!" does not excuse awful, amateurish writing. You're clearly in the professional world of cartooning. Even if the budget complaint *IS* true, you, as an industry professional, should know how to be creative enough to work with whatever budget you're given. I'm currently looking into getting into the Western cartooning industry. Clearly, it is creatively bankrupt on many fronts, which is disappointing to see.
Literally same, I can point you to at least 3 fanfics that would be better than this at the top of my head. Fanfiction is good if you actually see it as honing and refining your writing. But nooo this shit gets made into a show.
@@leila13dnd That is the exact reason I write fan-fiction (I have an AO3 account & an overactive imagination. I'm trying to practice restraint, so I don't start a fic and leave it at 50% like I used to do. I only have one fan-fic on that site so far for that reason. Got a little too busy offline to touch it at the moment. But ANYWAY-) And that is why I suggest people who like writing to practice their skills through writing fan-fiction. Also, what are those 3 fan-fictions and for what fandoms are they derived from? I'm curious now.
@@lupinsredjacket3191 Ooh, what fandom are you writing for? Can it be read fandom blind? What genre(s) is it? What characters are your main ones? Do you have any OC's? Sorry for all the questions, feel free to ignore if you want. 😅
This response just raises MORE questions. 1) Contrary to popular belief, the show was actually funded by foreign investors and not by Crunchyroll themselves, but then how did they seriously not have enough money? 2) "We couldn't afford better writers". Not only is that a copout since plenty of people write good stuff for free, but considering the whole "we value our 100% female writing staff" from the trailer, it feels like Rey is throwing them under the bus (which, considering how badly Professor Caraway was written, I wouldn't blame him). 3) "We had to stretch the budget of an 11 minute cartoon to 30!" So then why didn't they just make 11 minute episodes? 4) "Our sister series had the benefit of being a union production". Except that union shows are _more_ expensive, you admitted that they had a similar budget and crew members, and two of your VA's (Barbara Goodson and Cam Clarke) are well known union actors that, as far as I can tell, didn't use pseudonyms.
I agree with number 2. this was first and foremost HIS show. Any and all writing decisions would have went through him first, before they go through VAs and animation. He HAD to have said "This is good, let go with that" So he can blame the writers all he wants, but it's also partly his fault for letting those bad writting decisions pass his quality control as both the creator AND director.
I wonder if they’re proud of what they made like genuinely, or just blissfully unaware of the atrocity they made or actually ashamed. I’m really curious
This is such a good lesson in how NOT to behave as a writer, developer, animator, director, or any line of creative work. Take your criticism lumps, learn from it, and continue on. Don't demand people lower their standards and scream at people criticizing your work.
It is entirely their fault. Even if they had the budget, it is obvious they were using the show to push an agenda rather than tell a story. It would have failed regardless.
It doesn't matter how much budget they have, if the story itself is terribly made then the final product is still terrible no matter how good the production value is.
so basically he's saying, "it's not our fault, Crunchyroll is poor" also bullshit! a lot of Cartoons are made with as much budget as they had and they look great, feel great and have impressive writing!
The plot on this series is super bland, and I am always using them as a comparison to my stories that I made for a long time, so I wouldn't make another mistake like they did before.
“It had the same budget as a CN show.” Yeah, and the animation and writing on those shows are still better than yours. Good writing has NOTHING to do with the budget. How well you write a character has never been and should not ever be tied to the amount of money you are getting out of the project. Especially given how the show was delayed to 2021, you had so much time! What sucks is that High Guardian Spice as a concept had such great potential but if you’re storyboarding without a script and blaming your poor writing on lack of money, that’s all on you!
Bad writing is not a subproduct of budgets! Horimiya started off as a web series with a very amateurish and rushed art, but it made up with the well written story. in fact, it did so well, it got an OVA even before the official manga was announced! So, no, you don't get to put the blame on budget!
@@wolfhrt21 excuse me what? if you have five dollars and could only hire homeless crackheads to write the show it would likely fall apart with seconds of being released the one punch man's author is genuinely funny so he got the money, horimiya was written by a big brian person so it obviously came out well. 15 dollars of budget and mismanagement from CR was what ruined a potentialy decent idea for a show that was likely to just be a fun kid's show without swearing or any obvious glaring LGBT+ boot licking
Here's hoping Crunchyroll got the message. But now that they're owned by Soyny, something tells me that won't be the case, and that this is just the beginning.
Have you seen kill la kill and Gurren lagann, two of the greatest eye candy non movie anime ever made. Guess what. HGS had 3 times the budget of kill la kill. And over 5 times the budget of Gurren lagann. God has left us.
@@baboin1851 I've only seen kill la kill, but that explains the artstyle a bit. It was great anime. Also budget does not excuse poor writing, and story boarding before you had a clue on what's going on.
Korra had the same problem, she had so much details on her model it was super hard to animate her without causing a recession. This is why she was simplified in season 4.
the reason as to why they maade the statement after the show ended was because usually in productions, the company doesn't want the person who is making it to talk about the behind the scenes of an on going show, because most of the stuff that could happen behind the scenes would affect the companies business line, its also the same for any other business, I work in food and entertainment, and I am not allowed to say anything that happens behind the doors. honestly I do hope the creator finds better opportunities in other productions, maybe not in high guardian spice, but in different series
They blame people for hating on the "kill all men writers" and then prove the hate to be valid by creating a bad show with a grudge on toxic masculinity.
@@localweeb2924 they meant damage control as in when someone tries to downplay that something was bad to get less hate or to be seen more favourably. Also I'm sure lots of people cringed at this show which isn't exactly hurt but it was mental pain lol.
@@localweeb2924 the just said "things this show caused" that doesn't mean harm it probably just seems to me like it means backlash/hate. Maybe they meant it caused bad writing for itself?
Not only is the writing is so hamfisted but it also have so much wasted potential. The fact that the creator blamed budget and people are just being homophobic is just dumb
Also how the f does that explains how Snapdragon is one, if not the most, loved character even between the people that gets visits for hardly criticizing the series.
HGS is a guilty pleasure. Sometimes a show can be so bad it's good. I've never paused so many times to laugh at...well everything. I'm quite serious, it is a phenomenal show if you view it like Pop Team Epic where you know the audience is being trolled by having to watch.
Well I guess that's because not only does Helluva Boss has a higher budget, but the reason it does is because the people making it are actually good writers and care about their results.
@@rjs4176 If Helluva Boss has a higher budget than High Guardian Spice despite being pretty much indie compared to the giant corporation backed project then that is very sad.
People who have been canceling show writers for years are now saying "hey man, before you criticize us, first think about what happened behind the scenes." LOL what?
The funniest part is, the HGS article on wikipedia calls it a success, and that all criticism was caused by trolls and hate mobs review bombing the show XD
Blaming writing on budget. Wow. If that's not the worst way to tell someone their writing is bad, then I don't know what is. Also, blaming shit quality on the budget is such a copout. Has this person seen what people with actual passion for their art can make with hardly anything?
@@dustinb8781 I mean... Have you *seen* the writing for the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy? Full Disney budget and [the writing] isn't much better than what little I saw of HGS. I've unironically read goddamn crack fanfictions with better writing than this garbage. Hell, I've read goddamn CHATFICS that're written better, and the whole premise of those is to just put characters in an online chatroom and watch it devolve into chaos!
Dude... you can't blame the writing on the budget. You can still create beautiful things with very little money. Don't blame the budget for that monstrosity that was the "I am transgender scene" That is all on you
Ok but like me as an 10 year old wrote a better story than high guardian spice and it was about a girl being cursed by a lantern and is now connected to the world of supernatural beings.The MC met a character who lives in the supernatural world connected to the school and tells Mc that the more ghosts from a 3rd grade ghost story book that she brings to the afterlife the closer she is to get disconnected from supernatural beings.But later in the story MC figures out the character who tells her that misinformation was actually the one who cursed MC becuz she wanted to live in the human world again.And this story was for free I didn’t pay anyone to help me with that as a 5th grader with no writing experience
Funny that they claim that the criticism against HGS is a quote “hate campaign” but there are other transgender people and other LGBT people saying that HGS is not a good show.
Oh no, there is a hate campaign against HGS because they took money from CR that many people believe should have gone overseas to support more Japanese studios. Also for the fact they were constantly getting angry at people who said that HGS was a cartoon and telling them that it was an American Anime and that Anime just doesn't have to come from Japan. Now look they are calling it a cartoon so I guess we were right.
When you're in the intersectional identity camp like they are, that's their bulletproof way of handwaving any valid criticism. "oH, you don't like our show? Well you're just a HATER." Yeah, that's it. It couldn't *possibly* be any other reason.
Honestly the reason why people hated on the diversity was because that's all they pushed for their show. When they made the trailer all they talked about was how everyone was a woman. You should NEVER do this for a story. It's like if Helluva boss and Hazbin Hotel constantly talked about how their MCs were gay. Instead the show treats them as if its only a part of their character not the only thing about their character.
A wise grasshopper once said: "First rule of leadership. EVERYTHING is your fault." Western film and television creators seriously need to man-up, stop blaming others for their mistakes and take responsibility for their actions and reactions.
Even if it did have the same budget, Cartoon Network shows were amazing enough for me to still have lingering memories of them some 15 years later. The CN comment wasn’t an excuse. They were indirectly shitting on themselves by saying, “we had the same amount of money as this other cartoon channel and still made a bad show” Plus, when they were talking about how the budget was the problem, I couldn’t help but whip my head around when they said that the WRITING was a result of budget limits like their skill in writing a good story is somehow proportional to the amount of money they are being paid. Does he even realize how ludicrous that sounds? “Yeah we thought up a storm to try and write an amazing story but there wasn’t enough money to power my imagination, so that’s why it sucked”
"This isn't our fault" while they right clicked a stock image, saved it, cropped it and stuck them in the show. This is hardly an anime, more like low budget cartoon network.
their entire point for budget can easily be thrown into the garbage due to youtube animated shows existing, ya know, those people who aren't backed by a studio and sololy rely on crowd funding which is shaky at best
if they knew they lacked the budget, shouldn't they have scaled back to make it fit the budget? it sounds like in addition to all its problems hgs was also mismanaged.
I feel for artists who work hard on the projects they are hired for. And small budgets can be hard to work with. But that doesn't protect the creation from well deserved criticism.
I used to work with JP animation studios back in the day, and we have smaller budgets than they do. Zoids made it work. A1 Studios made it work, even Perriot made it work. I remember Zoids Chaotic Century was so in budget we had to sleep in the studio just to make sure Maya would render the frames of the robots. My boss most of the times had to pay for our food in a nearby izakaya just to get us through. え?
As an artist I am all about improvement if someone says my art is shit and gives me valid reasons and all I say is “Well I tried my best” I want you to slap the shit out of me. Criticism may hurt and ya may wanna get defensive especially if it’s something you care about but the results of your work are clear and you gotta deal with that, internalize it and, improve so that the next thing you do is blows your previous works out the water.
Yesn't. Not everyone wants to improve and wants critism and I've seen some drama because people had their own style or weren't a new Van Gogh. But I agree that people behind a real TV show shouldn't be ignorant torwards critism when they depend on their fans because they bring the money in.
Usually when a trailer is made its to show people reasons why they should watch the show/movie. when you dedicate 25% of the trailer to displaying the identities of the people behind the show, people are going to get the impression that you care more about identity than the show itself. If they had made a proper trailer first and them produced the behind the show thing they called a trailer as promotional material they wouldn't have had nearly as much backlash.
My first impression when I saw the writing staffs was like 'why do I have a feeling this is gonna be a bad series?' Then I knew that the storyline in this is so bad, there are some plot holes that made it so questionable.
Don't talk about budget. They have artists and animators who make better show concepts and art etc straight from their laptops/drawing tablets/etc and perhaps some pretty cool voice actors they found online/discord/etc. So when you have a whole company backing you, you have no excuses.
Call me crazy but if you're making a fantasy show that has tons of characters and deal with magic aren't you *SUPPOSED* to have some kind of roadmap of what you want to do with the story? Like have a begining or at least an idea of that the conflict or ending should be?
The lack of budget excuse fails spectacularly when it was CR that pretty much greenlighted the show to be made so Raye and the studio had the budget given to them on a silver platter, they just lacked the brains and soul. They had their chance to one-up and show the 'haters' that they could do a good job but apparently the haters were living rent-free in their heads for them to do anything about it. Too dang bad that Raye is already going to make another show. This culture of rewarding failures needs to stop.
I have not watched a single HGS episode but I can honestly say that a lot of Raye and their team’s problems could be relieved, at least a little bit, if they just took responsibility + accountability. That seems to be a pretty common thing lol.
pin
W
Hello random citizen
Gg
Short simple and to the point
@@mattguy1773 I love it
People: are mad that Crunchyroll made HGS instead of supporting the anime industry like they were supposed to
HGS creator, trying to defend HGS: it's not an anime, it's a cartoon
Like, yes thank you, that's exactly what we were mad about, glad you noticed.
At this point I think we're as mad about it being a cartoon instead of supporting the anime industry as we are about it being a shit cartoon instead of being at least a competent cartoon to soften the original blow.
@@neoqwerty pretty much this. It wouldve been one thing if it was at least halfway decent in either story or animation, because then it could be argued that although they weren't supporting anime creators they were still supporting skilled animators. But the show is a trainwreck in the writing department and is animated the same way all modern western cartoons are nowadays: by some unknown Korean studio who could do it for cheap to fill in for the animating skills that the Studio's own staff don't have.
The show featured a world where transition magic and transformation exist. They both do the same thing, but one requires a magical monthly treatment while the other requires nothing. That's not an animation problem. That's a story problem.
Right? It's like these people don't know how their own magic system works. Oh wait, they probably don't.
I'm sorry, can I get a quick explanation as to what the former is
Yeah, it's really stupid to put these points in magical settings when you could solve it very easily with spells, for example a wish spell in DnD (maybe polymorph, even?). Would someone even suffer considering the option to freely turn entirely into another gender - and assuming magic here, the transition would essentially make you indistinguishable in any way from the gender you are trasforming into? I could only see that in a setting where that kind of magic is hard to have access to, and only to those whose social standing would hinder them from accessing it easily would that be potentially agonizing.
@@scrubscrub4492 there shouldn't be a difference, but because the writers wanted to inject real world trans people issues in a fantasy world where those issues wouldn't exist "transition magic" fills a spot that makes no sense in the story every time it gets brought up. its just a gender change potion, but then again this is the same writers that thought it would make sense to call water that rapidly ages things "healing water”
Transformation magic is a powerful thing
However It cannot be used to hurt
I told Raye Rodriguez that he had three years to think about his script and that thinking costs zero dollars at all. He then blocked me for it, the irony of him blocking me for it but being fine with Kate Leth is hysterical to me.
According to some research HGS was a concept he had on his mind for a while...but despite the big differences design wise in his characters...literally nothing changed about them. Rose, sage, etc were all the same character when they were just a concept.
One thing about making Ocs is that, if you REALLY want them to be on TV over time you change who they are, give them new flaws, change their backstory, etc yet despite the amount of time he had to make these characters better for TV he changed NOTHING. He really hasn't gotten out of his teenage fanfiction phase has he?
@@shinysoda6 I don't think most of them got out of that teenage phase
@@Nathan-hv4qj
*looks at Kate Leth*
@@shinysoda6 She is definitely in the edgy teen phase
you told him right though lmaooo
The fact Raye tried pulling the homophobic/transphobic card makes me roll my eyes. A good chunk of the people who hate this show are LGBTQ+ community members.
It's like Latinos hating Oye Primos. People want good representation, not an imitation of it.
Creators: "High Guardian Spice is an anime"
Also Creators: "High Guardian Spice is actually a cartoon, not an anime"
... okay
They can’t even classify their own show correctly…
The doubling down has been hilarious
The only "good'" thing about High Guardian Spice is Futanari and Rule 34.
It's a cartoon "inspired" by anime tropes for all intents and purposes
@Some guy with a blursed pfp [Mayk Felix] Thank you.
I can't help but think the creators are saying
"Stop saying our show is trash, it isn't our fault. If you hate it, your a damn idiot lol"
Oh wait that's exactly what their saying. Wow Hollywood and all companies like to hire immature children who have a serious case of egotistical arrogance.
Also love how a problem is, not having a union.
In this day and age, unions have lost any reason to exist. They are outdated and just a more expensive middleman that have no problem screwing their union members over a deal with the companies they benefit, the companies benefit, but the employees don't.
We all know why Hollywood would like to hire children....
Hollywood should just be boycotted. Very few good films came from them anyways as of late.
@@AmaryInkawult Hollywood should be nuked.
@@strategicperson95 Like having a Union would have solved a budget issue. LOL Unions don't magically make something better and they are definitely not involved in how much money a company agrees to give to another company for a product. Even if the union was involved in budget the union wouldn't have helped get more money from CR cause CR was having major issues after HGS was announced.
CR was facing massive fallout from HGS as people were cancelling left and right for feeling like CR lied to them cause they gave money to a US based company to make what they claimed at the time a new American Based Anime, which they creators are now calling a cartoon. Also I needed to point out they used HGS announcement to hide the fact that there were multiple articles coming out about how they weren't paying their translators and sometimes not paying the power bill to their studio.
The _only_ way you can blame bad writing on a tight budget is if _they weren't being paid enough to care._ Just look at how many well known authors/poets died penniless. Money does not a writer make. They were either awful writers at the time (which could be rectified for future endeavors if they swallow their pride and learn) or they simply did not care. Or both. Probably both.
or getting an experienced writer for a show, having someone who does this for living can help a ton, it's pretty clear that what they made was more of a product than an actual show, if I had to be it became horrible and they had the supposed lack of budget was because people kept arguing over pointless stuff ending in a "you either agree with my idea or leave" instead of putting some tought into it
"The reason the show is bad is because of budget. Also, the show isn't bad, it's just a hate campaign."
Honestly, I'm more impressed that they actually admitted the show was was bad...even if it was just for a few seconds.
Also, hey Mr. Doorags. Your videos are really good.
Any arguments Ray tries to make about "fair criticism" immediately falls flat once they started hiding comments
True
Ray: bUt We'Re OnLy TrYiNg To HiDe CoMmEnTs FrOm ToXiC mAnBaBiEs!
So let me get this straight. The whole blame goes to the budget....... that's not going to fly. Anime studios have been scrapping the bottom of the barrel for budgets since forever. Even popular shows like AOT have struggled massively with budgets but they made it work. If you have a small budget than you need to downscale the project not just plough forward. Anime studios plan literally where every single penny is going. The design order for anime is storyboard the whole show, write script, get VA done (This can change but most Japanese anime do this before animating for synching purposes), Animating (Background including etc.) and than final touches like sound effects/music. You also can't blame poor writing on budget. If you were given an extra couple of thousand more you could have written something better? I'm being highly doubtful of that. Fan fiction are written for free and some of them are brilliant. Usually poor writing is down to the idea/story not being thought out enough or just poor execution.
Thank you! This is exactly what they need to hear. I can't tell you how many fanfictions I have read that I have sincerely enjoyed due to the good writing. Its few among many, but they're there. I'm so done with people saying that it's because they don't have a lot of money to work with - that crap doesn't fly with me.
Writers don't start out with a million bucks, many authors start out piss poor.
This comment deserves more likes
I didnt know Wrtiting literally cost money.
damn no wonder my writing is shit, its cause im not being paid! Of course!
What are u on about stop hating
@@logicandemma8474 I hope you’re trolling when you say that.
The only thing you can blame “low budget” on is animation quality. Everything else, from the unlikeable characters and the awkward writing to the overused tropes and the bland world building, was ALL on Raye and the team. I cringed when Raye went “Writing? Budget.” THAT DOESN’T EVEN MAKE SENSE. Writing skill doesn’t come from money. It comes from talented, creative minds, which High Guardian Spice was severely lacking.
True
Exactly! (Text is a lil long)
Like, does your brain need a few dollars to come up with scenarios in your head and actually make the characterstill fit in the setting? (which of course I myself still struggle with the latter, but come on man)
Also with the animation quality, it also wouldn't matter with low budget, I mean look at season 1 of Kemono Friends, people liked the anime for the writing, despite the not so great animation. Look at the free Flipaclip users in the animation meme community like Zoe Nah, budget =/= good animation in their case.
@@Chivecookies_domain i only fail all my essays because I’m not being paid to write them! Its not my fault! 😩😩
@@grapeslim906 SGAJAHAHAHAH THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT RAYE AND THE TEAM DO
Even that can't be blamed on budget entirely. The animation was done by a quality studio, and while done cheaply it was the story boarding and design that saw the animation turn out as it had. Like, even extremely low budget animation can be interesting if there's an interesting design that is used but if you start with bland and poor designs you're going to get bland and poor animation even if Studio Bones was doing it.
Oh hey, that's my tweet. Thank you for featuring it.
I also replied to him again and pointed out that there will always be harassment for any project (regardless of the content, people love to riff on things), and that shutting down all critical discussion because of some hate is no way to go.
As artists, we need audiences and critics.
eww furry
Okay but there’s talented people on RUclips who don’t nearly have as much of a budget like these companies and come up with far better animations, designed characters and storylines. Freaking “God’s school” is made by one person. It’s just absolutely amazing.
Here's a 1 minute 30 video I saw recently with better plot and animation that the whole of hgs
Single person animations on NEWGROUNDS look better than this trash pile of animation
Smg4's arcs which are from a super Mario 64 blooper channel has FAR more story, character development and logic then. This frickin show.
You can see the Astarte project that made by a fan of WK40
@@bamantioindrahidayat1165 The Emperor's Finest i see
I'll just say this.
The people who worked on the original Transformers, G.I.Joe, and He-Man series had a hell of a lot more restrictions then Ray had with High Guardian Spice.
These series where glorified toy commercials. They were made to sell products, and yet they still buckled down and did what they could to tell stories that were at least fun.
If you want even more examples look no further then Lego Ninjago, Hot Wheels: World Race, and Hot Wheels: Accelaracers. Again all shows made to sell products, but they still managed to make some decent stories that are fun, interesting, and a little compelling.
Budget and restrictions are NOT excuses for poor writing, shoddy animation, and bad management.
I remembered World Race. What a ride. Even with the limits back then, the story was top tier.
Hell, the Pokémon anime is probably just there to sell the games, and yet it's had several subseries and an extremely wide audience as a result despite its episodic format. At least it had an okay plot.
@@anasazmi8554 The pokemon anime iirc was glorified a commercial for the game and no one expected it to last for one season, but then it blew up and Nintendo rolled with it. Which explains why they are so insistent on keeping Ash and Pikachu as the MCs, it was never planned to have any kind of longevity and there might be a fear that switching the two out for new MCs would hurt the anime's (and its own exclusive merchandise) popularity.
Props for mentioning World Race and Acceleracers. Good shows right there.
Very true, if anything a smaller budget shows if you have that talent to make it or break it in the industry. I like took back at certain games, back in the NES/SNES Era, that were limited by their technology and had to do all sorts of tricks and work around to produce a solid game. The original Final Fantasy is a great example; little had little to no budget, that studio's last game and chance, and they pulled it off with, at that time, interesting enough writing, world building, gameplay, music, etc etc.
In the end, it all depends on the craftsman, not necessarily their tools.
Dude, I write fanfiction as a hobby and man, it gets tiring. But I do it because I love to write and I hate what the creators are doing to the setting and characters.
I have more outlines, designs, background info and plans for my main character than what HGS has for their entire show. I'm sorry to brag, but I'm just really proud of my main character and I just can't help but gush about him.
But nah, man, nah. Nah, a small budget does not hinder the creative writing process, being lazy and not letting go of bad ideas hinders the creative writing process.
Amen! You said it perfectly! I write my own stories a bunch (not really fan fiction), and I can still make them far more masterful than this. I'm writing one now that I've been working on for 11 years! And you're right! I've had to go through and let go of a lot of ideas and I've improved because of it. No money needed!
I am writing a massive story for a project since 2021 and I spend time researching my own story to find holes, continuity errors, etc while trying to give all chars a plausible persona.
Hobbies, depth, private life, backgrounds, family and their background, character development... I even develop a whole family tree over several generations, if I have to. Marriages, Divorces, etc.
While I give the chars sexuality or a "way of diversity", its *not* the main focus.
(Or have them scream, "I am gay" all 5 lines of dialogue lol, because wokeness seems to be like that)
I don't want to have token chars, because the woke thought police says so.
For example: If I want a lead investigator to be black, because I think it would be cool -
he will be black and I give him a respectful role.
Some chars have no face (or rather description how they look) by default, so it's up to the reader to decide in their mind. Is that person white? Black? Gay? Lesbian? Trans? It's up to them, so that is how I invoke the fantasy in the mind of the reader.
And yes, I have LGBT-chars and got rid of the woke "non-stereotypical" stereotypes, you may never know which of them are LGBT unless there is a part, where they have sex or act in a "certain" way.
If I want a char to be dead, that character will be permanently dead, no "Son Goku Comebacks" too.
I am not even paid for that story. I do all that additional work, because I want it to be good.
The fact that Smiling Friends exists shows that HGS is full of crap when it comes to blaming things on budget. Even Smiling Friends use a PNG as a prop and they pulled it off better.
As a filmmaker myself, I can confirm:
Budget has NOTHING to do with the quality of writing.
I mean, I dunno if this counts, but my college projects had a budget of $0.00, and yet my classmates' reviews mentioned about how much they liked the story and writing. My payment was my assignment's grade, which was based on the quality of writing.
Yea aren’t you suppose to finish up the script before starting anything? I’m not a writer but it seems that’s what people do
maybe if they hire an actual good storywriter instead of making it like that for the sake of 100% women writer bullshit lol
The same goes with animation. The budget doesn’t just make an animated series better. Heck weekly anime have less time then they did with their series that took years and it still looks much better. They don’t have an excuse imo.
Literally came here looking for this comment. Thank you!
Ok but LITERALLY THOUGH like this is such a good point. People who actually learn to make animation already operate on a lower budget and already put out better results.
They had two of the greatest voice actors in history, known for their villainous characters. They had Liquid Snake and Rita Repulsa's VA and they used them as *BACKGROUND CHARACTERS!!!* Why????
because crunchyroll is the anime equivalent of bethesda i.e incredibly lazy and incompetent
see ex arm god of highschool the other web novel adaptations etc etc etc
They got a VA from METAL GEAR and wasted it
They can’t do anything right
Because they probably did not have toy budget for more than 2 lines each
probably because of the limited budget
They did WHAT?! That is very disappointing.
Something that i learned from film class; never, ever expect your audience to think something is good from how much work was put into it behind the scenes. People only care about something if the end product that youre selling is worth buying, and if its not good in quality or wasnt passionate then that isnt the audiences problem, just as it isnt the consumers problem when you go to a store and the fresh produce isnt fresh or something else is wrong with it. At that point they just go to a different store. The fact is, again, nobody cares how much you care about a project or the time you spent on it if its not objectively good when they watch it. Thats business, and if they want to complain about criticism then they dont deserve to be in their position of the film business. Simple.
Blaming the budget for bad writing is a total lie.
You can make a compelling story with absolutely zero budget... so they're either saying "we deliberately made the story bad because we werent paid enough", or "we're blaming the budget on the fact that our writers aren't talented enough"...
I dont know which is worse
"Writing, budget"
Then why is the One Punch man webcomic (drawn by One) loved by millions, despite having very basic art?
It's because it's actually well written, something that the High Guardian Spice team can't seem to understand.
ONE's other webcomic, Mob Psycho 100, is adapted into anime being faithful to the source plot & character design and still does well.
Yes! I remember the original webtoon. It looked like One drew it using a ballpoint pen lmao but the writing was so good it kept the readers interested
Power, get the POWER!
Maybe this is a case of letting too many chefs spoil the soup
@@anns.8802 that's cause some pages were drawn with ballpoint on public transportation
Man, it’s such a shame they didn’t have that extra budget or else the extra money would have helped them realise the difference between herbs and spices XD
Excuse me, parsley can be a spice if it wants to be, you transphobe! /s
I hope it gets renewed for a second season revolving around a different cast of characters. Starring: Nashville, Sweet Mesquite, Chili Verde, and Paprika!
the spices and herbs thing isn't that big of a deal when they can be considered both at once, its hardly the the most egregious thing about the show. that would be how its boring as sin.
@@keiichi8191 um what?
@@gamerwithsandwhich2160
They're being sarcastic.
As a trans person myself, that "monthly potion" explanation of trans people is the most watered down basic baby explanation for what being trans means I have ever heard.
My son introduced me to HGS and we couldn't finish it.
I remember calling it a combination of fanfiction written by a 13 year old and a high school project.
But I think a high school project might be better.
Hgih schoolers can def made good quality stuff if they know how to do it, unlike this show
I’m not salty that it’s trash. I’m salty that Cruncyroll used OUR MONEY to fund a project no one asked for and flat out didn’t want. A lot of people signed up for Crunchyroll because we believed that some of the profits would go back to the Japanese creators. Not fund a virtue signaling pet project. I’m all for LGBT+ representation but… not like that. Not the way High Guardian Spice did it.
Stop giving Crunchyroll money. Crunchyroll is a bunch of puritanical westerners who hate anime and are only using the anime market as a source of income.
They will purposely sabotage their customers because they hate over 75% of their customers.
Just try to read what their team responds when people ask about bugs on their streaming site or product damage during delivery.
They don't care, they just want money and will play dirty to get it!
PREACH
@@thiagodias5530 Oh trust me, I cancelled my Crunchyroll as soon as they announced High Guardian Spice.
There's mold growing on that roll
@Georgie porgie pudding pie It’s so crusty it’s crunchy
If it isn't their fault, whose fault is it then ?
*They* wrote a piss-poor script.
*They* utilized crappy animation.
*They* insulted people about the show before it aired.
*They* created and developed the whole story and project from start to finish.
*They* are at fault for the failures of *their* actions. Not anyone else.
It's those pesky viewers and weebs, who can't appreciate this wonderful show! /s
True
"its everyone else's fault because we, the ones who made it cant do anything wrong!"
seems to be the prevailing mind set.
It costs $0 to have a friend or two look at your stuff and give constructive criticism.
@@undeadprincess5726 that's the thing, he doesn't want criticism of any kind because of how insecure of his work he is, he literally blocked RUclipsrs and anyone who gives any criticism, constructive or not, on Twitter.
So, as someone LGBTQ+, I can appreciate trying to bring representation to us, but at least make the characters well written. This isn’t particularly pandering, “woke” or even an offensively bad representation (take New Warriors or Q Force). The writing is just so underwhelming that the representation contributes nothing of value.
Honkai impact before all the new censoring from China is LGBQ couple done Right specially Kiana x Mei and Bronya X seele you see them as another person with the struggle . There is no hollier than thou because i bang another girl like western garbage the last of us 2 , and He Maam revelation .
Also western media always potray lesbian as an ugly woman with muscle as big as Hulk and Juggernaut
Between this and the Arkh Project, I think it's safe to say that if your show/game promotes diversity over, y'know, a game or a plot, and you don't let the diversity just speak for itself, your project isn't going to be very good or it's a scam.
If the sparking phrase to build the character off of going in to the writing process has (insert race here), gay, lesbian, trans or "queer" in it, you have already failed as a writer. Because those things aren't the core of who someone is, but they're writing the character to orbit around that one trait because fucking... "We're progressive lmao". There's a reason Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss succeeded and this failed, because even with the characters where their sexuality is a huge component of the character, it's still just a part of the greater whole. Compare Angel Dust to Snapdragon or Sage. It's not even a competition. The latter two have 2-4 word depth while Angel takes a whole sentence to not miss vital parts.
To demonstrate. Snapdragon: Insecure transgirl. Sage: Possessive cynical lesbian, repressive family. Angel Dust: Self-hating androgynous wise ass who abuses drugs to run from his trauma and pain, born into an era and culture that demonizes almost every aspect of his being, incapable of mustering the will to improve his situation he simply retreats into bliss with intoxication to cope and aggressively pursues sex to never confront his problems.
Notice how Angel has enough depth I can go that far into a summary without mentioning he's a glowing stereotype collage crossdresser who fucks men? And Hazbin has WAY less material to convey all that. What, an episode length pilot, a music video, and like one comic about him. They established in under one hours' worth of material what Raye Rodriguez can't drum up in _twelve whole fucking episodes!_
@@aloysiusprasetyo3737and I'm always confused when people say that mihoyo does girl to girl content for fanservice when it's literally more than that
The way they included LGBT+ representation in this show is the same as taking someone from x nationality and make it being just a living stereotype. As a french if I see a french character being included in a show and their whole personnality revolves around eating baguette, wearing a beret, and talking with a french accent, I wouldn't go like "wow I feel so included."
whenever I heard people critiquing the (quote/unquote) "D I V E R S I T Y" of the staff, it was more so because the first teaser for the show was just the staff circle jerking about how the show was an all-female/trans staff. nothing about the actual show or what it was about, only that it was the first all-woman staff for an American anime.
so people were collectively groaning. not because the creators were women/trans, but because their tokenism was the only thing the CREATORS felt was note-worthy about it. HGS was dead in the water because the creators were so busy patting themselves on the back that they forgot that a story needs to be decently written to be successful and were practically bragging about it in the first trailer.
This is the epitome of a "This sounds like a you problem"
It also has a lot of "I don't learn from my own mistakes I dont make any, other people do" feel. Just me?
Nope, it's not you it have that vibe.
same, you put it pretty well
No it's not just you, that's basically sums it up.
Raye Rodriguez: "It was the budget, not us. That's why it wasn't written or animated well. We were roped in to the culture wars, we didn't dive in to it. The show is a cartoon on an anime service, not an anime"
Toby McGuire's Peter Parker: "I missed the part where that's my problem"
You can also add in the laugh from Spider Man 2 followed by "You Serious?" In that exact same scene
“We have a very low budget!”
“Ok, I can see why that happened with the animation but did it really affect the story? Does your brain run on money? Are you EA?”
Meanwhile JP animators getting low wages but even the most generic anime still have better animation, graphics, stories or even consistency
They'll answer that question for $1.99
@@pumkin610 and then gamble that money to see if you get an answer
"We started the storyboard before we finished the first script"
Wow, really? That's..... a really stupid idea. Finish the script before you start getting animation sorted! That's OBVIOUS. He basically just said "The show is only bad because we had no idea what we were doing"
Cause they CLEARLY didn't know what they were doing. When you're so incompetent your show has spice in the name and ALL of your characters are named after HERBS not spices!
YOU CANNOT BLAME THE BUDGET FOR EVERYTHING YOU FUCKED UP! This show could have had unlimited budget, and still would be bad.
A talented chef can make amazing meals from the most ordinary ingredients. If they can't create any cartoon even with the appropriate budget then they're not talented enough to even have a bigger budget.
"We literally started storyboarding the first episode before the first script was even finished" Well that explains alot.
Did they really think saying that was supposed to make them look better?
@@elder-woodsilverstein7716 It’s hard to tell with Rey Rodriquez, but the whole show was a clusterfuck of mismanagement. I’m amazed at the lack of responsibility with these people, there’s always something with them. The budget, the time constraints, all of this is a winded way of saying “we had no vision for this project”
They had two years for this shit wtf.
@@NuclearWinterMan Two years huh? Those must have been REALLY detailed storyboards.
@@elder-woodsilverstein7716 correction: began production in 2017, was set for release and finished production in 2019, then was delayed for 2 years for a 2021 release.
Yes, PERISH High Guardian Spice
BURN WITCHER BUUUUUURN
Never thought we'll hear this again
Finally one of the worst shows burning
Aw and I couldn’t even bring a flamethrower
We shall purge this Heresy in holy fire
The thing I'm most surprised about is that it's maturity rating on IMDB is MA-15. Another thing I found interesting is that Rosemary, Sage, Parsley, Thyme and snapdragon are herbs not spices so the show should be called high guardian herb
Wait.. They did mix that up **wheeze**
"We didn't have enough money to pay our writers to bother writing a decent story."
That's got to be one of the worst deflections I've ever seen.
i facepalmed myself on that line so hard that i have no remorse that high guardian spice performed so badly
You can't blame everything on budget. The writing came from YOUR thoughts
Literally
I write story with six seasons in five years and always fix the problem in story with any budget
I thoughts is literally free, I don't understand what she trying to say
Ikr. People write amazing fanfictions all for free. Writing doesn't need a huge budget. The writers are just lazy and amateur.
And Ray would have read the script before it was green lit.
so ALL the bad writing was him saying "yes. this is good."
Tbh, considering they were being discriminitive toward men at the beginning, and now are claiming they're being harrassed because they're lgbt, or for being a woman, it really seems like they just want to be the victim instead of taking criticism like a mature adult.
It's the classic offensive-defensive move that scammers use to justify why the money invested in they project mysteriously disappeared.
The victim market is extremely lucrative for dishonest people to raise money from other people and end up with a project that looks like it was made by a 14 year old kid on DeviantArt using Powerpoint 2013.
This is getting more and more common on the internet.
The toxic man stereotype
@@thiagodias5530 looks like Steven universe
@@skootergirl22 To be fair, and I'm saying this as someone who feels apathy to mild contempt towards Steven Universe, it _was_ a good show. My nephews loved it when the early seasons first aired.
_Then_ came the regular periods of hiatus.
That's how woke Twitter people thinks, they act like the very thing they hate then try to justify it by saying it's for the greater good and when people call them out on their bs they either pull the victim card or call them all these words like phobic or racist or whatever they can think up as if that's going to magically help them win the argument.
The self-awareness of Raye is shockingly nonexistent. Have they even looked at the same show we've slogged through? This show isn't ambitious in the slightest, it does absolutely nothing new, given the setting or the characters. There's no deconstruction of certain tropes, there's no unexpected plot twists to keep the story engaging; there's nothing here that hasn't been done before, and hasn't been done better.
You wanna know a show that was ambitious(at least in my eyes)? Madoka Magica, a show that deconstructed the entire genre it was in, changing how Magical Girls were seen as overall. No happy ending for the heroes, more melancholic if anything. At the time, it was a show of it's own standing, because most Magical Girl shows followed suit of Sailor Moon; nothing overly dark or grim, that's what made it stand out and, I believe, be ambitious in that genre.
HGS did poorly for a number of reasons, and the fact that Raye can't step back, look at the show, and see it's glaring flaws, poor writing decisions, and overall poor quality; and just blame it on budget, is that same reason why the show failed so hard. Raye needs to show some humility and accept that their team made a bad show, marketed it poorly, and just didn't gave the right people behind it in the first place. No one cares how "diverse" or "inclusive" your studio staff is, no one cares about your characters being fucking skittles; what people overall care about is a show that is consistent with it's characters, writing, and world building.
Their first highlight for the show was how diverse their team was and how diverse the characters are instead of... what they wanted to do and why they're qualified to do that job
"how diverse their team was"
Me, looking at their all-female production team:
@@epicKerBallze all WHITE female
"I, the lead of this project, have no responsibility of the failure of our objectively bad _anime._ Surely every other animation project had much better situations, support, & funding, we stood no chance."
_He's_ tripping a little too much, don't ya'll think? The audacity....
The lion, the witch, and the audacity of this bitch.
@@SweetOrangeGirl hahah nooooice way to put it 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@hu3bman No problem.
"blame the budget, not the writers"
Starting from their "trailer", HGS stood no chance tbh. Couple that with mismanagement and you got a train wreck heading for the highway to hell.
It is their fault. Sorry, they wasted 2 years doing nothing then half-assed everything at the last minute. A small budget my ass. Crunchyroll had the money, so I don't want to hear it.
Yeah. They had the resources and the time to improve on what needed to be improved. They’re just grabbing at the most convenient excuses.
That's what happens when you're lazy on a project and wait till the last minute
And they don't need a high budget for writers all I'm hearing is excuses and poor ones at that.
It takes 2 years to make a decent movie, they had that time. They could've made something good, but nope.
That's the thing, they are not Crunchyroll.
The statement we got, goes right into the sorta mindset we are dealing with here. No personal responsibility or accountability.
They took money that was given to them to pay better Anime artist to make a mockery of said material. That's fraud, plane and simple.
They knew what they where doing and they made what they wanted to make. In there mind this is what anime *should be* .
Ideological Agenda First!
Quality, writing, animation, art, and creativity Last.
The only thing Zealots are interested in creating is More Zealots.
I've seen passionate animators do so much more with nothing in there pockets. There going to blame the budget!
No one looks at that guy who creates these elaborate sand castles on the beach for nothing.
Then looks at little Timmy with a bucket shaped pile of sand and sais... "Lil timmy could have done that if you just given him more money."
Money wasn't there problem, The fact the ""creators"" where a gaggle of self obsessed ideological morons was!
Ergo these anti creative self obsessed morons made a Shallow self absorbed Ideologically driven show bereaved of any sort of creativity... That No one asked for.
So when it fails, Its EVERYONE and EVERYTHING else's fault.
Best yet these are the exact same people who are completely devoid of any sort of humanity compassion or empathy for anyone who doesn't think exactly the same way they do. Yet when there on hard times, where supposed to feel sorry for them.
NO you giant children stole some other kids money, spent it on candy and spray paint, vandalized the house of the kid you just robed from.
You are NOT the victim here!
You are the bully.
Alright…..so the animation sucked because of “low budget”. Fair enough.
Meanwhile almost all the criticism I’ve seen has been about how they hated the character designs, characterization, and plot. Things that have little to nothing to do with so called lack of budgeting. Did their lack of budget cause them to hire terrible writers? Because I’ve literally seen complete amateurs re-writing the plot for a joke and have them do a much better and more comprehensive job
Edit: never mind I see a retweet’s basically said the same thing
They were "roped" into the culture wars? Wasn't it more like they roped the culture wars into their advertising, their twitter feeds, their plots, their ideologies, their...etc.?!
But it isn't our fault!!!!!!!!!!!
"People compare HGS to anime because it's on CR, but It isn't anime, it's cartoon made with the same pipeline as any other American cartoon"
That is one of the biggest problems with High Guardian Spice. (Independent the bad animation and writing)
People pay Crunchyroll to see anime not America cartoons.
That they have used that money to make a american cartoon insted of buying licenses for others animes or create a true anime i find it an insult.
facts here. If it’s not anime wtf is it doing on crunchyroll then 😐
Most of the animation was from DR movie
And btw, it was promoted as "anime", was this guy drunk or smth? I still remember and it's not like I'm super interested in this topic.
@@remixchild Yeah, in the trailer, some guy said that "they're making something that *western cartoons* forgot how to do", yet most of the work is from an Asian studio. Tell me how that makes sense
Also the fact they compared it to Cartoon Network, like…???
Just try to get your show on there, instead! Damn.
Mangakamen made a fair critique of the show, and Raye blocked him. THAT's how sensitive he is about his works
Helluva Boss was fan funded and was still able to be an awesome show with representation that didn't have the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
That they started doing storyboards before a finished script definitely explains a lot about how this show turned out. That’s not being on a budget, that’s simple mismanagement. Did they not have a complete pitch put together after all that time trying to find a company to green light their show?
Considering their entire pitch was "what if magical girls, but trans? Look how diverse our white women are!", probably not.
My guess is that Raye is very good friends with somebody at CR or one of CR's investors, and that's how he managed to get a show greenlit based on a few concept art sketches and nothing else, not even a script or short pilot.
2:52 Raye says: “Have empathy for the real human beings who did their best working on [High Guardian Spice].”
Meanwhile Kate, a writer for HGS, says: “Kill all men!”
Yeah, I got no sympathy for you guys.
I completely agree with you
They lost the right to empathy the moment they Hired Kate. Feminist like her (or even resembling her) can't write a damn thing.
You get what you freaking deserve ya donkeys.
Really shooting your head on that one
I literally spice every single one of them
@@bibikawa1945 The best part of High Guardian Spice was when Sage said "It's Guardin' Time" and then spiced all over the audience. Truly the show of all time.
Love how the creator blamed the bad writing on budget as if i havent seen "fans"(as in people who saw the potential for what the show couldve been) write better plots for it in an afternoon
Raye Rodriguez just did an interview at Creative Block and he literally said "I'm an artist not a writer" and he said in that interview that they just started working on the story and writing during development. Raye never had a complete story in his mind. He was relying on his writers to work through the vague concepts he made. He also said that he only started thinking about world building after his pitch was approved but other than that it was all just concept with no storyline or main plot in place.
I actually agree that the problem was the budget. This show never should've gotten money from CR in the first place. If this show has been greenlit by a cartoon company like cartoon network or Nickelodeon there probably would've been much less backlash, but instead the money from anime fans that wanted to support the anime industry went to fund an American style cartoon. What did they expect would happen?
It’s like blizzard showing a mobile game to a bunch of pc gamers and expecting them to love it
@@knightblade0188 "What? Don't you guys have phones?" That statement is just as bad as the old Microsoft CEO who said "we have a console for you if you don't want to be constantly connected to the internet, it's called Xbox 360" back when they revealed the Xbox one, guess how well that statement went over with people?
@@osets2117 I did not know about that one I imagine it must have been one hell of a reaction
@@knightblade0188 you gotta look it up, the way he says it sounds like he's looking down on you. Soldiers on deployment used their 360s as target practice
I'd not be surprised if they'd pitched the show to CN and/or Nick unsuccessfully, and the problems inherent to the whole thing caused those networks to give it a hard pass. I mean, getting the money from CR under the circumstances they did absolutely ensured there'd be a large, vocal, and critical bunch of eyes on whatever they turned in. Given you're supposed to be turning up to those meetings with at least a rough estimate on what your minimum budget IS, because at the end of the day...you need to know how much at minimum you need. If it's not enough, yet you didn't walk away...
If Raye ever reads this, which I highly doubt:
It's not that you had minority characters, but it's how POORLY they were written.
It's not about how little your budget was seeing as most anime made even today are made with less of a budget than most American cartoons, it's because you cut corners that shouldn'tve been cut.
It's not that you had a low budget that we're blaming your writing, but just how careless everything felt. Not ignorant; careless. Even the cheapest studio on Earth can make a masterpiece of written work if they put enough care into it.
You released a bad show that had forced diversity, poor animation that cut way too many corners, worldbuilding that contradicted its messages, characters that were grating and almost too easy to hate (except Snapdragon), and what's worse: you had TWO YEARS to look over your work. Two years to proofread, two years to check for errors, two years to re-record lines or edit audio, two years to check the writing and imagery and match it to what Bible I hope you wrote for your world; TWO Years you had to fix it, but you didn't. Ignorance or stupidity can be fixed; Carelessness can't.
You are correct. I'm not sure what you are talking about, but this needs to be seen. I hope my like and comment helps!
@@saphiriathebluedragonknight375 Long story short: I'm calling Bulls*** on him.
And slime boy, don’t forget him. Probably the only character that didn’t feel like a cardboard cutout.
Don’t forget Parsley and Amaryllis
Dude, I saw someone drew an animatic about Snapdragon revealing she was trans, and even if it had no noise, i FELT SOMETHING with that small, pidly animatic with no sound and only drawings with the script under the lines. Legit, people who hate the show is writing better scenes via an animatic with, presumably, NO BUDGET.
All these creatives being so butt hurt and defensive because people don't like their creations or have some critical feedback for their work is really driving me insane. In art school, if you've got a good professor, they will metaphorically, sometimes literally, rip into your work to tell you how to improve. You learn to just disconnect your emotions from everything you make because a) it can always be better, even if you like it and are proud of it and b) there will always be someone or many people who don't like your work and you need to learn to deal with it. This whole 'empathy for the creatives who worked' is going too far to me. Yeah you can be compassionate to people, but creative needs to be critical of themselves when their work is just bad, or plan for a low budget and reduce the scale. If you can't be creatively ambitious, knowing what corners to cut to get the same product, you're just half-assing everything.
A bad script is not measured by its budget. Only the amount of talent and effort that's put into the said script.
"Level of Creativity" is in no way interrelated to "Budget". They're not causal whatsoever. I've read fan-fiction that had far better characters, plots, and arcs than what this show had to offer...and fan-fiction is totally free. Fan-fic authors don't make money from their works. Crying "We were on a budget!!" does not excuse awful, amateurish writing. You're clearly in the professional world of cartooning. Even if the budget complaint *IS* true, you, as an industry professional, should know how to be creative enough to work with whatever budget you're given. I'm currently looking into getting into the Western cartooning industry. Clearly, it is creatively bankrupt on many fronts, which is disappointing to see.
Literally same, I can point you to at least 3 fanfics that would be better than this at the top of my head.
Fanfiction is good if you actually see it as honing and refining your writing.
But nooo this shit gets made into a show.
@@leila13dnd
That is the exact reason I write fan-fiction (I have an AO3 account & an overactive imagination. I'm trying to practice restraint, so I don't start a fic and leave it at 50% like I used to do. I only have one fan-fic on that site so far for that reason. Got a little too busy offline to touch it at the moment. But ANYWAY-) And that is why I suggest people who like writing to practice their skills through writing fan-fiction.
Also, what are those 3 fan-fictions and for what fandoms are they derived from? I'm curious now.
We were on a budget!
Yeah well movies have had low budgets and made easily double
They could have just released episodes slowly and made sure they were good (crunchyroll probably wouldn't like that though)
@@lupinsredjacket3191 Ooh, what fandom are you writing for? Can it be read fandom blind? What genre(s) is it? What characters are your main ones? Do you have any OC's? Sorry for all the questions, feel free to ignore if you want. 😅
This response just raises MORE questions.
1) Contrary to popular belief, the show was actually funded by foreign investors and not by Crunchyroll themselves, but then how did they seriously not have enough money?
2) "We couldn't afford better writers". Not only is that a copout since plenty of people write good stuff for free, but considering the whole "we value our 100% female writing staff" from the trailer, it feels like Rey is throwing them under the bus (which, considering how badly Professor Caraway was written, I wouldn't blame him).
3) "We had to stretch the budget of an 11 minute cartoon to 30!" So then why didn't they just make 11 minute episodes?
4) "Our sister series had the benefit of being a union production". Except that union shows are _more_ expensive, you admitted that they had a similar budget and crew members, and two of your VA's (Barbara Goodson and Cam Clarke) are well known union actors that, as far as I can tell, didn't use pseudonyms.
Yea all of them but one is female
I agree with number 2. this was first and foremost HIS show. Any and all writing decisions would have went through him first, before they go through VAs and animation. He HAD to have said "This is good, let go with that"
So he can blame the writers all he wants, but it's also partly his fault for letting those bad writting decisions pass his quality control as both the creator AND director.
Infinity Train had short episodes around the 11 minute mark and the series is amazing. Budget isn’t an excuse for bad writing 💁🏽♀️
I wonder if they’re proud of what they made like genuinely, or just blissfully unaware of the atrocity they made or actually ashamed. I’m really curious
This is such a good lesson in how NOT to behave as a writer, developer, animator, director, or any line of creative work.
Take your criticism lumps, learn from it, and continue on. Don't demand people lower their standards and scream at people criticizing your work.
It is entirely their fault. Even if they had the budget, it is obvious they were using the show to push an agenda rather than tell a story. It would have failed regardless.
What even was the story aside from an agenda? Just two mcs arguing I guess.
@@pumkin610 The terrible representation of transgender people? Idk.
@@pumkin610 One MC is dumb and insensitive and the other is the embodiment of SJW and an insensitive jerk.
It doesn't matter how much budget they have, if the story itself is terribly made then the final product is still terrible no matter how good the production value is.
Id say that more than pushing an agenda it was riding a trend
so basically he's saying, "it's not our fault, Crunchyroll is poor" also bullshit! a lot of Cartoons are made with as much budget as they had and they look great, feel great and have impressive writing!
The plot on this series is super bland, and I am always using them as a comparison to my stories that I made for a long time, so I wouldn't make another mistake like they did before.
Raye: "Think about who started this mess in the first place!"
Me: "Have you looked in a mirror?"
“It had the same budget as a CN show.” Yeah, and the animation and writing on those shows are still better than yours. Good writing has NOTHING to do with the budget. How well you write a character has never been and should not ever be tied to the amount of money you are getting out of the project. Especially given how the show was delayed to 2021, you had so much time! What sucks is that High Guardian Spice as a concept had such great potential but if you’re storyboarding without a script and blaming your poor writing on lack of money, that’s all on you!
Bad writing is not a subproduct of budgets! Horimiya started off as a web series with a very amateurish and rushed art, but it made up with the well written story. in fact, it did so well, it got an OVA even before the official manga was announced!
So, no, you don't get to put the blame on budget!
Same with One Punch Man. But damn, I didn't know that's how Horimiya started, I fucking love that show
Yeah, when they talked about writing being a budget issue, that was when their argument fell apart.
@@wolfhrt21 excuse me what? if you have five dollars and could only hire homeless crackheads to write the show it would likely fall apart with seconds of being released the one punch man's author is genuinely funny so he got the money, horimiya was written by a big brian person so it obviously came out well.
15 dollars of budget and mismanagement from CR was what ruined a potentialy decent idea for a show that was likely to just be a fun kid's show without swearing or any obvious glaring LGBT+ boot licking
Counter: You took our money meant for Japanese animators and DIDN’T HIRE ANY JAPANESE ANIMATORS TO MAKE THE SHOW.
Here's hoping Crunchyroll got the message.
But now that they're owned by Soyny, something tells me that won't be the case, and that this is just the beginning.
Cancel Crunchyroll for not giving job opportunities to Asian minorities
For those wondering, I'm not being serious lol
@@user-zs9ux1ru8u You lost me at Asian Minorities.
Have you seen kill la kill and Gurren lagann, two of the greatest eye candy non movie anime ever made. Guess what. HGS had 3 times the budget of kill la kill. And over 5 times the budget of Gurren lagann. God has left us.
@@baboin1851 I've only seen kill la kill, but that explains the artstyle a bit. It was great anime.
Also budget does not excuse poor writing, and story boarding before you had a clue on what's going on.
Korra had the same problem, she had so much details on her model it was super hard to animate her without causing a recession. This is why she was simplified in season 4.
the reason as to why they maade the statement after the show ended was because usually in productions, the company doesn't want the person who is making it to talk about the behind the scenes of an on going show, because most of the stuff that could happen behind the scenes would affect the companies business line, its also the same for any other business, I work in food and entertainment, and I am not allowed to say anything that happens behind the doors. honestly I do hope the creator finds better opportunities in other productions, maybe not in high guardian spice, but in different series
I don't understand how they think they can "damage control" the things this show caused
They blame people for hating on the "kill all men writers" and then prove the hate to be valid by creating a bad show with a grudge on toxic masculinity.
@@localweeb2924 they meant damage control as in when someone tries to downplay that something was bad to get less hate or to be seen more favourably. Also I'm sure lots of people cringed at this show which isn't exactly hurt but it was mental pain lol.
@@localweeb2924 the just said "things this show caused" that doesn't mean harm it probably just seems to me like it means backlash/hate. Maybe they meant it caused bad writing for itself?
Not only is the writing is so hamfisted but it also have so much wasted potential. The fact that the creator blamed budget and people are just being homophobic is just dumb
Also how the f does that explains how Snapdragon is one, if not the most, loved character even between the people that gets visits for hardly criticizing the series.
Accountability is an illusion to them.
@@macaroll
Oh please don't blame me
I was Tumblrpilled.
@@tirramasu7948 Classic excuse 😂 Blaming social media for how they've become. I swear, this is just sad.
Pretty much sad how they put less effort on side characters like Aster and Slime Boy yet they are more enjoyable than the main cast
HGS is a guilty pleasure. Sometimes a show can be so bad it's good. I've never paused so many times to laugh at...well everything.
I'm quite serious, it is a phenomenal show if you view it like Pop Team Epic where you know the audience is being trolled by having to watch.
I'm pretty sure that you can still create a good story despite the lack of budget
If a show as independent as Helluva Boss can look so good, then HGS should have looked better.
Well I guess that's because not only does Helluva Boss has a higher budget, but the reason it does is because the people making it are actually good writers and care about their results.
@@rjs4176 If Helluva Boss has a higher budget than High Guardian Spice despite being pretty much indie compared to the giant corporation backed project then that is very sad.
@@rjs4176 Crunchyroll, a giant anime streaming service backs HGS. Helluva Boss is basically indie and supported by mostly fans.
@@sayounsang And they still did a better job, astonishing.
@@rjs4176 Incredibly embarrassing on CR’s part.
People who have been canceling show writers for years are now saying "hey man, before you criticize us, first think about what happened behind the scenes." LOL what?
These hypocrites are so unbelievable it's epic.🤦♂️
“We had a small budget and had no idea how to use it.” There, fixed it for them.
The funniest part is, the HGS article on wikipedia calls it a success, and that all criticism was caused by trolls and hate mobs review bombing the show XD
Guess the woke will be the eternal enemy of the common man.
@@yurichtube1162 I think their greater enemy is common sense.
Blaming writing on budget. Wow. If that's not the worst way to tell someone their writing is bad, then I don't know what is.
Also, blaming shit quality on the budget is such a copout. Has this person seen what people with actual passion for their art can make with hardly anything?
But if they had been given even more money they could have maybe hired someone who can write? Or wasted it on promotion and paid tweeting
@@dustinb8781 I mean... Have you *seen* the writing for the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy?
Full Disney budget and [the writing] isn't much better than what little I saw of HGS.
I've unironically read goddamn crack fanfictions with better writing than this garbage. Hell, I've read goddamn CHATFICS that're written better, and the whole premise of those is to just put characters in an online chatroom and watch it devolve into chaos!
@@SoftisNelaris What hurts the most is that the OT had a little budget than the Sequel trilogy and it turned out well.
They have but they'll probably say it's because 'White male privilege patriarchy' or something.
Dude... you can't blame the writing on the budget. You can still create beautiful things with very little money.
Don't blame the budget for that monstrosity that was the "I am transgender scene"
That is all on you
The "i'm transgender" scene was just 🤢🤮
@@chicknnuggest853 It was basically grooming instead of educating
@@Tongle4 bro the character's dialog was straight up a Google definition 💀
Ok but like me as an 10 year old wrote a better story than high guardian spice and it was about a girl being cursed by a lantern and is now connected to the world of supernatural beings.The MC met a character who lives in the supernatural world connected to the school and tells Mc that the more ghosts from a 3rd grade ghost story book that she brings to the afterlife the closer she is to get disconnected from supernatural beings.But later in the story MC figures out the character who tells her that misinformation was actually the one who cursed MC becuz she wanted to live in the human world again.And this story was for free I didn’t pay anyone to help me with that as a 5th grader with no writing experience
"We didn't get enough stolen money to make a decent product."
What a pathetic attempt of an excuse.
Funny that they claim that the criticism against HGS is a quote “hate campaign” but there are other transgender people and other LGBT people saying that HGS is not a good show.
Oh no, there is a hate campaign against HGS because they took money from CR that many people believe should have gone overseas to support more Japanese studios.
Also for the fact they were constantly getting angry at people who said that HGS was a cartoon and telling them that it was an American Anime and that Anime just doesn't have to come from Japan.
Now look they are calling it a cartoon so I guess we were right.
When you're in the intersectional identity camp like they are, that's their bulletproof way of handwaving any valid criticism. "oH, you don't like our show? Well you're just a HATER." Yeah, that's it. It couldn't *possibly* be any other reason.
@App Quit Steven Universe eventually dropped in quality. Though, to be fair, it _was_ a good show. Emphasis on "was".
@App Quit also Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss has LGBTQ+ characters and people enjoy the shows.
Honestly the reason why people hated on the diversity was because that's all they pushed for their show. When they made the trailer all they talked about was how everyone was a woman. You should NEVER do this for a story. It's like if Helluva boss and Hazbin Hotel constantly talked about how their MCs were gay. Instead the show treats them as if its only a part of their character not the only thing about their character.
Raye: " Its not our fault, it was our budget! "
Me: *I don't even know who you are*
nice reference
Someone once said on Trash Taste- Just because you worked hard on something, doesn't mean it's good.
A wise grasshopper once said: "First rule of leadership. EVERYTHING is your fault."
Western film and television creators seriously need to man-up, stop blaming others for their mistakes and take responsibility for their actions and reactions.
Even if it did have the same budget, Cartoon Network shows were amazing enough for me to still have lingering memories of them some 15 years later. The CN comment wasn’t an excuse. They were indirectly shitting on themselves by saying, “we had the same amount of money as this other cartoon channel and still made a bad show” Plus, when they were talking about how the budget was the problem, I couldn’t help but whip my head around when they said that the WRITING was a result of budget limits like their skill in writing a good story is somehow proportional to the amount of money they are being paid. Does he even realize how ludicrous that sounds? “Yeah we thought up a storm to try and write an amazing story but there wasn’t enough money to power my imagination, so that’s why it sucked”
"This isn't our fault" while they right clicked a stock image, saved it, cropped it and stuck them in the show. This is hardly an anime, more like low budget cartoon network.
Even CN didn't get so lazy with backgrounds, and a show like Gumball uses real life backgrounds all the time
their entire point for budget can easily be thrown into the garbage due to youtube animated shows existing, ya know, those people who aren't backed by a studio and sololy rely on crowd funding which is shaky at best
Thats what happens when you care more about forced "diversity" than actual good storytelling.
if they knew they lacked the budget, shouldn't they have scaled back to make it fit the budget?
it sounds like in addition to all its problems hgs was also mismanaged.
I feel for artists who work hard on the projects they are hired for. And small budgets can be hard to work with. But that doesn't protect the creation from well deserved criticism.
Let this sink in: actual Japanese anime generally has half the budget of American cartoons.
And I write a book with 0 budget and no idéa if it will ever be published.
I used to work with JP animation studios back in the day, and we have smaller budgets than they do. Zoids made it work. A1 Studios made it work, even Perriot made it work. I remember Zoids Chaotic Century was so in budget we had to sleep in the studio just to make sure Maya would render the frames of the robots. My boss most of the times had to pay for our food in a nearby izakaya just to get us through.
え?
As an artist I am all about improvement if someone says my art is shit and gives me valid reasons and all I say is “Well I tried my best” I want you to slap the shit out of me. Criticism may hurt and ya may wanna get defensive especially if it’s something you care about but the results of your work are clear and you gotta deal with that, internalize it and, improve so that the next thing you do is blows your previous works out the water.
Correct! Well said!
Very well said! Criticism is important in everyone’s art journey, especially valid reasons
Yesn't. Not everyone wants to improve and wants critism and I've seen some drama because people had their own style or weren't a new Van Gogh.
But I agree that people behind a real TV show shouldn't be ignorant torwards critism when they depend on their fans because they bring the money in.
Usually when a trailer is made its to show people reasons why they should watch the show/movie. when you dedicate 25% of the trailer to displaying the identities of the people behind the show, people are going to get the impression that you care more about identity than the show itself. If they had made a proper trailer first and them produced the behind the show thing they called a trailer as promotional material they wouldn't have had nearly as much backlash.
"Come for the show, stay for the staff," as they say. Except they forgot the former.
My first impression when I saw the writing staffs was like 'why do I have a feeling this is gonna be a bad series?'
Then I knew that the storyline in this is so bad, there are some plot holes that made it so questionable.
@@anasazmi8554 and the staff were pretty lack luster too.
@@crystalwings4520 that's what happens when you hire entirely from your Twitter friends list.
@@thesimplerooster Literally, lol.
Don't talk about budget. They have artists and animators who make better show concepts and art etc straight from their laptops/drawing tablets/etc and perhaps some pretty cool voice actors they found online/discord/etc. So when you have a whole company backing you, you have no excuses.
Call me crazy but if you're making a fantasy show that has tons of characters and deal with magic aren't you *SUPPOSED* to have some kind of roadmap of what you want to do with the story? Like have a begining or at least an idea of that the conflict or ending should be?
I'm sorry, did she just blame bad writing on the _budget?_ That's not a money problem, that's a talent problem, lady.
Exactly. More like they are just creatively bankrupt. There are fanfic writers with much better stories and they do it for FREE
"he"
Biologically a woman. Therefore a woman.
Not just budget, but also union, like that has anything to do with shitty team and show
@@sweetcinnamonpnchkin still refered as man, even if he is a talentless person
The lack of budget excuse fails spectacularly when it was CR that pretty much greenlighted the show to be made so Raye and the studio had the budget given to them on a silver platter, they just lacked the brains and soul.
They had their chance to one-up and show the 'haters' that they could do a good job but apparently the haters were living rent-free in their heads for them to do anything about it.
Too dang bad that Raye is already going to make another show. This culture of rewarding failures needs to stop.
Show wasn’t made to be a success, it was made to push ideals and get “good press”. They got both
I have not watched a single HGS episode but I can honestly say that a lot of Raye and their team’s problems could be relieved, at least a little bit, if they just took responsibility + accountability. That seems to be a pretty common thing lol.