Start watching at 5:18. U2 makes the out call on the catch. PU makes no call of safe or out on the play at home, which is correct as there was no tag and there was no force at home as it was removed on the catch by F6. The umpires got this right from the beginning and met together to ensure they did, probably questioning if the throw to third was an intentional appeal of R3 leaving the base without tagging up or not. They concluded that the fact that F5 was touching third base when the throw to retire R2 was not an intentional appeal, thus not awarding the second out there. It looks messy but the umpires made the calls they needed to.
@@evankirk5937 It's in any/all of the umpire manuals. MLBUM, MiLBUM, PBUC manual, CCA manual, etc. It's also in the NCAA rulebook, Rule 2-2, the definition of Appeal: "An appeal may be any act that unmistakably indicates an appeal."
lol, if you look at U2 at the exact moment that the announcer says no umpire signalled the catch, you will see U2 signal the catch. Classic announcers!
No the umpires messed up by not calling the out in the beginning.The appeal at third base is not allowed because there was stoppage of play by the umpires.If time is called you can not appeal a call.
If you look at 5:18 and the wide view of the field on the play, U2 makes an out call before the throw home, which is why PU does not make a call at the plate. Once time is called, an appeal cannot be made until the ball is put back into play. The same thing happens when a batter misses a base on a homerun. There cannot be an appeal until the ball is put back into play. What they are appealing is that R3 did not retouch after the ball was caught on the fly. He did not, again as seen on the wide angle at 5:18. So your three outs are B/R on the catch by F6, R2 on the tag by f5, and the R3 on the appeal.
Out one - the initial catch by the SS. Out two is the tag at 3rd of the player going from second to third. Out three is the appeal at 3rd because the runner going from third to home did not tag up before scoring. So he was initially safe, but out on appeal.
Mike...I love this stuff..I agree with your on out 1. Here is where I start to disagree...if out 2 is the tag at third on the runner... that is a legal play. Any appeal must be made before the next pitch, or any play or attempted play. So the throw from the catcher removes the right to appeal the failure to tag up and the run would count.
@Michael Heathman I don't think that you could call the initial throw to 3B an appeal on R2; R2 is simply advancing (and did tag up), so it's just a regular tag play. Doesn't change the outcome, and of course your point that the play at 3B is continuous action is just as valid. (if not for continuous action, appeals would almost never happen and certainly 4th-out appeals would be nearly impossible)
@@paulcalhoun6339 Because the play on R2 was part of continuous action, the defense does not lose the right to appeal. Look up how the apparent fourth out works.
@@paulcalhoun6339 that is incorrect. The throw home by the shortstop was because there was no verbal call of out on the catch - he can't see the umpire signal behind him, and he throws home for what he assumes will be a force out. The ball was still live since the home plate umpire correctly didn't signal out or safe, so the catcher's throw to third was a live ball play and the runner is out at third attempting to advance. The runner who came home from third was no longer on the field, and the only way to finalize the play on that runner was to appeal by throwing the ball to the third baseman. It was handled correctly.
Was the appeal really necessary for the 3rd out? Shortstop catches the ball for the first out, throws home which does nothing. When the catcher threw to 3rd did the 3rd baseman have his foot on the bag? If he did, then the runner on 3rd is out, and then tag on the runner coming from 2nd makes the triple play?
NCAA rulebook, Rule 2-2, the definition of Appeal: "An appeal may be any act that unmistakably indicates an appeal." The third baseman was set up to receive the throw from the catcher and to apply the tag on the sliding runner. In this case simply being in contact with the base when the baseman gloves the throw was not "... [an] act that unmistakably indicates an appeal."
Everybody pay attention to the situation the shortstop caught the ball for the out he threw it home and what happened was the player going home was officially safe for the moment but the catcher threw the ball to Third Base the third baseman not only tag the man coming from 2nd to 3rd but he was also standing on third base which makes that two out three out
I think the announcers have it wrong and the umps got it right in the end but still screwed up by allowing an appeal play. out 1 was the SS catching the batted ball; out 2 was when the 3rd baseman caught the thrown ball from the catcher....the 3rd baseman was touching the 3rd base so runner going home was out for not tagging up; out 3 was 3rd baseman tagging the runner from 2nd base. So 6-5-5.
I disagree. The appeal was the correct call given the confusion. The umpire is not obligated to rule a runner who fails to retouch his base out unless/until an appeal is made before the next pitch. That's why it (and missing a base) is an appeal play. It is up to the defense to pay attention. If R2 and R3 had occupied the base at the same time then the ump calls whoever was not legally entitled to the base out on a tag, but not on appeal. It's hard to tell if 3B was touching the base when he received the ball, but U3 was on top of that base and would have made that known in conference after it was established that SS actually caught the ball. He likely said, "I don't think he touched the base, but R3 definitely failed to retouch." I think, given the confusion, the umps did the right thing in terms of mechanics, (and also got the call correct: There was no force at home. BR out on catch, R2 out on tag after legal retouch, R3 out on appeal for failure to retouch.
Mike Howard Mike, Do you agree, in 4 ump rotation, U2 should have made the call the ball was caught or not? He did so we’re good there. So there’s no force play on any base. R3 crosses home plate and, I assume, goes to Dugout. R2 was tagged out going to 3B. R1 goes to 2B. Here’s my question: Who is on 3B and how did he get there? If he went into Dugout he’s out. How can you call an runner out for not tagging up when he standing on the base?
Paul you're right, I called triple play when I watched it first time. My only worry was the SS reaction after the catch. If you knew you caught the ball you would have never thrown home, you'd have thrown to 3rd because runner was running down the line. Happened fast so you know runner at 3rd didn't tag up.
In order to appeal a runner missing and base or leave early on a caught batted ball the field must touch the base in question or tag 5e runner who caused the rules Infraction while announcing to the umpire there Intentions.
Dave Mabe Dave Mabe Dave. 0ut 1 - caught ball; out 2- catcher throws to third baseman - who is standing on third base - the runner going home is out for not tagging up, out 3 is runner going to third base. I don’t understand where the runner on third base came from? The 3rg base ump blew the call. He call should have been to point toward the runner going home for out 2, and call the runner tagged as out 3.
These announcers must think the umpires are invisible. The second base umpire called it a catch and no safe call at the plate but the announcers are not seeing this. Why during the appeal the bases were loaded-again - only the runner at first should of been on first. runner at third scored runner at second gets thrown out at third batter is out
Didn't outs #2 and #3 happen almost simultaneously? The third baseman both tagged the runner sliding into third making that an out and also had his foot on the bag getting the runner going home out due to that runner not having tagged?
I got a "what if" Same play.. a catch Batter/runner is out 1 Out in the inning Runner from third is is not out on a force ... Runner from second is tagged out.... 2 outs in the inning... What if runner from first .. rounds second and gets far enough off of second ,that on a continous play the third baseman, throws to second and that runner from first is called out.. 3rd out in the inning!!! Now does the run score? Can the defensive team appeal the original runner from third not tagging up after three outs are recorded?
Failing to tag on a caught ball is not a force play, it's an appeal play, either a live ball appeal or an appeal after the play is over before the next pitch. So if the runner on 3B crosses the plate before the third out is made by appeal or by a tag, the yes, the defense must appeal him as a "fourth" out, or the run counts.
There can still be an appeal for an apparent "fourth out", which could then take precedent if upheld. This appeal must be made before the defense has left the field (pitcher and all infielders leaving fair territory).
Yes, either by throwing to the third baseman to tag the base directly after what you described above, while the play is still live (live ball appeal), or, if the play above has ended, having no defenders leave the field of play, have the pitcher stand on the rubber with the ball, step off, and throw it to third to tag the base (dead ball appeal). Either way the runner from third is a "fourth out", and the run is erased. If any defensive players leave the field before that runner is thrown out, then the play cannot be appealed and the run counts.
@@quigonkenny Actually, the defense loses its right to appeal when ALL infielders, including pitcher leave fair territory. So, if everybody leaves except the pitcher, he can walk over and touch the base himself.
No it wasn't. That was handled perfectly by the umpires. The correct call was made at every single step. The Arkansas base runners were the ones that screwed it up.
Adam Moreira at :42 U2 clearly calls it a catch and calls out the batter/runner. The umpire at home plate makes no call at the plate since there was no tag and no linger a force out.
NCAA rulebook, Rule 2-2, the definition of Appeal: "An appeal may be any act that unmistakably indicates an appeal." The third baseman was set up to receive the throw from the catcher and to apply the tag on the sliding runner. In this case simply being in contact with the base when the baseman gloves the throw was not "... [an] act that unmistakably indicates an appeal."
The LSU 3rd Baseman touches the base at 5:33 after tagging out the Arkansas runner from 2nd. Shouldn't that automatically result in an out for the Arkansas runner from 3rd who didn't tag up (even if touching the base was unintentional)? No appeal would be necessary because an LSU player, holding the ball, made contact with 3rd base before the Arkansas runner returned after the catch.
@@FanDrop No. An appeal must be clearly intended as an appeal, as an act that unmistakably indicates an appeal to the umpire. Had the fielder made any sign that he was appealing, then yes. But that did not happen on the initial throw down to third.
During the tag at third, the fielder touched the base and tagged the runner coming in from second, it was a triple play. The umpires blew the ruling but got it right in spite of themselves
The non-tag up at third is an appeal play. If nothing else had been happening there, it would have been obvious that the offense was making an appeal, and safe or out would have been called. Since there was a tag play at third, the fielder's foot on the bag, in and of itself, meant nothing. The fielder would have to have said or done something to communicate an appeal of the runner from third not tagging up
Well it was a Big Bang bang, that's for sure. My guess is that the third base umpire assumed the line drive was not caught. Otherwise, when the catcher threw the ball down for the tag on the runner, the touch of the base would already be an out registered on the runner who went home. Ultimately, the appeal took care of that call, but in a perfect world, the umpire at third would have had to see it all unfolding. Interesting play
@@alanhess9306 But nothing needs to be said ever ally if it is an obvious appeal which it would have to be viewed as such if the third base umpire saw an out call on the line drive being caught even if the player making the appeal didn’t.
@@kevinmoynihan5118It wasn't an obvious appeal, The throw to third was meant to retire the advancing runner. Unless the third baseman told the umpire he was appealing the runner from third leaving early, it is not a valid appeal.
Sgv_Sth Sorry, I posted two replies-a more detailed post after your post. And a “simple umps got it wrong” one. Read my first post and see if that helps.
Tim Vecchioni Tim, watch again and pay attention to U2 by 2nd base. He definitely called the play (BR out). Then watch HP umpire. He makes no call at HP when the ball is thrown to catcher, which is the correct call (nothing to call). Catcher throws to Player 5 who tags out the runner. Out 2. I say when the 3rd basemen touched 3rd base, the runner to Home was out for failure to tag up. I cant figure out who was on third base and how did he get there?
It wasn't clear what the call on the line drive was. That said, there shouldn't have been a runner at third during the appeal play, as it was a line-out, out advancing from second to third (tag), and then out at third for not tagging up.
The thing is I dont think the SS caught the ball in the air. Seems he knew he didnt catch it or otherwise he would have known it could have been a triple play. He assumes only 2 outs right away
@@auzmo the 2B Umpire signaled “Out”. The SS’s face indicated he thought he caught it, but he smartly threw Home because the 2B Ump as silent. It’s all in the video
@@johnwright6311 yeah you said that the first time. The umpire didnt signal out until the SS was already throwing home. There were 0 outs so the SS could either go home to 3rd for double play or 2nd to first double play and a run scores. The SS clearly didnt expect a triple play or he would have told the 3B to tag 3rd and would have run off the field after the runner was tagged knowing it was 3 outs. He didnt catch the ball in the air, and he knew he didnt catch the ball in the air. The 2B umpire signaled out but was wrong.
There was no need for an appeal. The ss caught the ball (out 1) and threw it home, the catcher threw it to the 3rd basemen who was touching the bag doubling off the runner who went home without tagging up (out 2) and then tagged the runner from second sliding in (out 3). The appeal was unnecessary.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but failing to retouch a base after a catch is by definition an appeal play, but if it's obvious what it's all about, it's not necessary to appeal verbally (like in the typical situation when a liner is caught by an infielder who throws to a base that a runner is trying to get back to). In this case it was not obvious, since the runner that occupied third didn't try to return and the throw there ended up being to tag out the next runner.
By the language of the appeal play rule, the intent of the fielder making the appeal must be clear to the umpire. It can be verbal, hand signal, or even just eye contact if that makes the intent clear to the umpire. In this case the c and 3b were trying to throw out the advancing runner (who had properly tagged up) and the umpires correctly ruled there was no clear intent to appeal.
The home plate umpire blows the call you can not rule force at home and the rule catch later. They should have stayed with their original ruling. Or order catch and sent runners back to their bases hitter out and then next batter.
did you miss the part where PU made no call at home, as no play was made on an unforced runner? he didn't screw up anything. The only blemish you can put on the crew (MAYBE) is that U2's out call on the catch should've been quicker and more emphatic; but we really can't tell what he vocalized. seems like maybe he was surprised
oh, and yes, the announcers were correct that R3 shouldn't have been back at third once play was resumed - he can't go back to third after reaching the next base (home) and the ball becoming dead. that said, the umpires didn't really allow him to return as a live runner, he's just a retired runner still standing on the field; there was little point spending time arguing about where the guy was standing, just put the ball in play, get him out.
Start watching at 5:18. U2 makes the out call on the catch. PU makes no call of safe or out on the play at home, which is correct as there was no tag and there was no force at home as it was removed on the catch by F6. The umpires got this right from the beginning and met together to ensure they did, probably questioning if the throw to third was an intentional appeal of R3 leaving the base without tagging up or not. They concluded that the fact that F5 was touching third base when the throw to retire R2 was not an intentional appeal, thus not awarding the second out there. It looks messy but the umpires made the calls they needed to.
Great analysis. Can you point to where an appeal play needs to be intentional? Thanks!
@@evankirk5937 It's in any/all of the umpire manuals. MLBUM, MiLBUM, PBUC manual, CCA manual, etc. It's also in the NCAA rulebook, Rule 2-2, the definition of Appeal:
"An appeal may be any act that unmistakably indicates an appeal."
lol, if you look at U2 at the exact moment that the announcer says no umpire signalled the catch, you will see U2 signal the catch. Classic announcers!
No the umpires messed up by not calling the out in the beginning.The appeal at third base is not allowed because there was stoppage of play by the umpires.If time is called you can not appeal a call.
If you look at 5:18 and the wide view of the field on the play, U2 makes an out call before the throw home, which is why PU does not make a call at the plate. Once time is called, an appeal cannot be made until the ball is put back into play. The same thing happens when a batter misses a base on a homerun. There cannot be an appeal until the ball is put back into play.
What they are appealing is that R3 did not retouch after the ball was caught on the fly. He did not, again as seen on the wide angle at 5:18. So your three outs are B/R on the catch by F6, R2 on the tag by f5, and the R3 on the appeal.
Out one - the initial catch by the SS.
Out two is the tag at 3rd of the player going from second to third.
Out three is the appeal at 3rd because the runner going from third to home did not tag up before scoring. So he was initially safe, but out on appeal.
Mike...I love this stuff..I agree with your on out 1. Here is where I start to disagree...if out 2 is the tag at third on the runner... that is a legal play. Any appeal must be made before the next pitch, or any play or attempted play. So the throw from the catcher removes the right to appeal the failure to tag up and the run would count.
@Michael Heathman I don't think that you could call the initial throw to 3B an appeal on R2; R2 is simply advancing (and did tag up), so it's just a regular tag play. Doesn't change the outcome, and of course your point that the play at 3B is continuous action is just as valid. (if not for continuous action, appeals would almost never happen and certainly 4th-out appeals would be nearly impossible)
yes but announcers are confusing themselves when they say out by the tag at third when its runner who never tag up
@@paulcalhoun6339 Because the play on R2 was part of continuous action, the defense does not lose the right to appeal. Look up how the apparent fourth out works.
@@paulcalhoun6339 that is incorrect. The throw home by the shortstop was because there was no verbal call of out on the catch - he can't see the umpire signal behind him, and he throws home for what he assumes will be a force out. The ball was still live since the home plate umpire correctly didn't signal out or safe, so the catcher's throw to third was a live ball play and the runner is out at third attempting to advance. The runner who came home from third was no longer on the field, and the only way to finalize the play on that runner was to appeal by throwing the ball to the third baseman. It was handled correctly.
R2 certainly thought it was a catch, hence his retreat to second.
Was the appeal really necessary for the 3rd out? Shortstop catches the ball for the first out, throws home which does nothing. When the catcher threw to 3rd did the 3rd baseman have his foot on the bag? If he did, then the runner on 3rd is out, and then tag on the runner coming from 2nd makes the triple play?
No. In order for it to be an appeal play, the fielding team's intent to appeal must be clear to the ump.
NCAA rulebook, Rule 2-2, the definition of Appeal:
"An appeal may be any act that unmistakably indicates an appeal."
The third baseman was set up to receive the throw from the catcher and to apply the tag on the sliding runner. In this case simply being in contact with the base when the baseman gloves the throw was not "... [an] act that unmistakably indicates an appeal."
Everybody pay attention to the situation the shortstop caught the ball for the out he threw it home and what happened was the player going home was officially safe for the moment but the catcher threw the ball to Third Base the third baseman not only tag the man coming from 2nd to 3rd but he was also standing on third base which makes that two out three out
Just stepping on the base isn't enough for an appeal. It has to be clear that it is an appeal - no "accidental appeal" is allowed.
@Michael Heathman oh well I guess I am very good
I think the announcers have it wrong and the umps got it right in the end but still screwed up by allowing an appeal play. out 1 was the SS catching the batted ball; out 2 was when the 3rd baseman caught the thrown ball from the catcher....the 3rd baseman was touching the 3rd base so runner going home was out for not tagging up; out 3 was 3rd baseman tagging the runner from 2nd base. So 6-5-5.
I disagree. The appeal was the correct call given the confusion. The umpire is not obligated to rule a runner who fails to retouch his base out unless/until an appeal is made before the next pitch. That's why it (and missing a base) is an appeal play. It is up to the defense to pay attention.
If R2 and R3 had occupied the base at the same time then the ump calls whoever was not legally entitled to the base out on a tag, but not on appeal.
It's hard to tell if 3B was touching the base when he received the ball, but U3 was on top of that base and would have made that known in conference after it was established that SS actually caught the ball. He likely said, "I don't think he touched the base, but R3 definitely failed to retouch."
I think, given the confusion, the umps did the right thing in terms of mechanics, (and also got the call correct: There was no force at home. BR out on catch, R2 out on tag after legal retouch, R3 out on appeal for failure to retouch.
Mike Howard Mike, Do you agree, in 4 ump rotation, U2 should have made the call the ball was caught or not? He did so we’re good there. So there’s no force play on any base. R3 crosses home plate and, I assume, goes to Dugout. R2 was tagged out going to 3B. R1 goes to 2B. Here’s my question: Who is on 3B and how did he get there? If he went into Dugout he’s out. How can you call an runner out for not tagging up when he standing on the base?
Paul you're right, I called triple play when I watched it first time. My only worry was the SS reaction after the catch.
If you knew you caught the ball you would have never thrown home, you'd have thrown to 3rd because runner was running down the line. Happened fast so you know runner at 3rd didn't tag up.
In order to appeal a runner missing and base or leave early on a caught batted ball the field must touch the base in question or tag 5e runner who caused the rules Infraction while announcing to the umpire there Intentions.
Dave Mabe Dave Mabe Dave. 0ut 1 - caught ball; out 2- catcher throws to third baseman - who is standing on third base - the runner going home is out for not tagging up, out 3 is runner going to third base. I don’t understand where the runner on third base came from? The 3rg base ump blew the call. He call should have been to point toward the runner going home for out 2, and call the runner tagged as out 3.
These announcers must think the umpires are invisible. The second base umpire called it a catch and no safe call at the plate but the announcers are not seeing this. Why during the appeal the bases were loaded-again - only the runner at first should of been on first. runner at third scored runner at second gets thrown out at third batter is out
But if the announcers didn't make obvious blunders about rules and umpires then they would lose their jobs probably.
Freeze frame at 5:25. The rabbit definitely signaled the out.
1:58 to 2:01 shows it even clearer
Bizzare play out one line drive caught out two tag of runner going to third out three runner never tagging up at third so they appealed.
Didn't outs #2 and #3 happen almost simultaneously? The third baseman both tagged the runner sliding into third making that an out and also had his foot on the bag getting the runner going home out due to that runner not having tagged?
An appeal needs to be an unmistakable appeal. You could say the fielder was on the base to make a tag attempt
Why is there a need to appeal at all if the 3rd baseman steps on third base just before tagging the runner coming from 2nd?
I got a "what if"
Same play.. a catch Batter/runner is out 1 Out in the inning
Runner from third is is not out on a force ...
Runner from second is tagged out.... 2 outs in the inning...
What if runner from first ..
rounds second and gets far enough off of second ,that on a continous play the third baseman, throws to second and that runner from first is called out.. 3rd out in the inning!!!
Now does the run score?
Can the defensive team appeal the original runner from third not tagging up after three outs are recorded?
Failing to tag on a caught ball is not a force play, it's an appeal play, either a live ball appeal or an appeal after the play is over before the next pitch. So if the runner on 3B crosses the plate before the third out is made by appeal or by a tag, the yes, the defense must appeal him as a "fourth" out, or the run counts.
There can still be an appeal for an apparent "fourth out", which could then take precedent if upheld. This appeal must be made before the defense has left the field (pitcher and all infielders leaving fair territory).
Yes, either by throwing to the third baseman to tag the base directly after what you described above, while the play is still live (live ball appeal), or, if the play above has ended, having no defenders leave the field of play, have the pitcher stand on the rubber with the ball, step off, and throw it to third to tag the base (dead ball appeal). Either way the runner from third is a "fourth out", and the run is erased. If any defensive players leave the field before that runner is thrown out, then the play cannot be appealed and the run counts.
@@quigonkenny Actually, the defense loses its right to appeal when ALL infielders, including pitcher leave fair territory. So, if everybody leaves except the pitcher, he can walk over and touch the base himself.
"Johnny Bench has 2 balls on him" (the "late" George Carlin)
The umps screwed this team. They did not call an out on the catch. They should never have been able to ump another game.
What a confusing play!
5:17 Jake Fraley due up...For the Reds.
I agree with Paul Calhoun, But it was still messy mechanics by the umpires.
TruetotheBlue, Paul Calhoun is incorrect. The defense does not lose the right to appeal when an intervening play occurs during continuous action.
That's just a hot mess by the umps.
a hot mess that they handled perfectly and got correct...........
No it wasn't. That was handled perfectly by the umpires. The correct call was made at every single step. The Arkansas base runners were the ones that screwed it up.
The problem is that it wasn't clear if it was a catch by the shortstop.
Adam Moreira at :42 U2 clearly calls it a catch and calls out the batter/runner. The umpire at home plate makes no call at the plate since there was no tag and no linger a force out.
An appeal should not be necessary as the throw to third had the fielder on the bag, which is an out and then the tag is another out.
NCAA rulebook, Rule 2-2, the definition of Appeal:
"An appeal may be any act that unmistakably indicates an appeal."
The third baseman was set up to receive the throw from the catcher and to apply the tag on the sliding runner. In this case simply being in contact with the base when the baseman gloves the throw was not "... [an] act that unmistakably indicates an appeal."
Ugly all around. If you're going to conference, make sure you cover all bases, including where the runners should be on restart. Ouch.
The LSU 3rd Baseman touches the base at 5:33 after tagging out the Arkansas runner from 2nd. Shouldn't that automatically result in an out for the Arkansas runner from 3rd who didn't tag up (even if touching the base was unintentional)? No appeal would be necessary because an LSU player, holding the ball, made contact with 3rd base before the Arkansas runner returned after the catch.
Youre right
@@FanDrop No. An appeal must be clearly intended as an appeal, as an act that unmistakably indicates an appeal to the umpire. Had the fielder made any sign that he was appealing, then yes. But that did not happen on the initial throw down to third.
@@FanDrop No he isn't right.
During the tag at third, the fielder touched the base and tagged the runner coming in from second, it was a triple play. The umpires blew the ruling but got it right in spite of themselves
The non-tag up at third is an appeal play. If nothing else had been happening there, it would have been obvious that the offense was making an appeal, and safe or out would have been called. Since there was a tag play at third, the fielder's foot on the bag, in and of itself, meant nothing. The fielder would have to have said or done something to communicate an appeal of the runner from third not tagging up
Well it was a Big Bang bang, that's for sure. My guess is that the third base umpire assumed the line drive was not caught. Otherwise, when the catcher threw the ball down for the tag on the runner, the touch of the base would already be an out registered on the runner who went home.
Ultimately, the appeal took care of that call, but in a perfect world, the umpire at third would have had to see it all unfolding. Interesting play
@@pavanatanaya No, the appeal of a runner leaving early must be made clear to the umpire. There is no such thing as an accidental appeal.
@@alanhess9306 But nothing needs to be said ever ally if it is an obvious appeal which it would have to be viewed as such if the third base umpire saw an out call on the line drive being caught even if the player making the appeal didn’t.
@@kevinmoynihan5118It wasn't an obvious appeal, The throw to third was meant to retire the advancing runner. Unless the third baseman told the umpire he was appealing the runner from third leaving early, it is not a valid appeal.
Question: If the runner at third made it home initially, why were they not initially given a run?
Sgv_Sth umps got it wrong.
paul calhoun: So, should it have been a triple play or a double with a run scoring?
Sgv_Sth Sorry, I posted two replies-a more detailed post after your post. And a “simple umps got it wrong” one. Read my first post and see if that helps.
Tim Vecchioni Tim, watch again and pay attention to U2 by 2nd base. He definitely called the play (BR out). Then watch HP umpire. He makes no call at HP when the ball is thrown to catcher, which is the correct call (nothing to call). Catcher throws to Player 5 who tags out the runner. Out 2. I say when the 3rd basemen touched 3rd base, the runner to Home was out for failure to tag up. I cant figure out who was on third base and how did he get there?
It wasn't clear what the call on the line drive was. That said, there shouldn't have been a runner at third during the appeal play, as it was a line-out, out advancing from second to third (tag), and then out at third for not tagging up.
The thing is I dont think the SS caught the ball in the air. Seems he knew he didnt catch it or otherwise he would have known it could have been a triple play. He assumes only 2 outs right away
The Ump at Second Base signaled OUT, but didn't verbalize it so the SS had to play as if the catch was missed by the Umps.
@@johnwright6311 i can agree with that but I dont believe the SS actually caught it in the air and I think he also knew he did not catch it in the air
@@auzmo the 2B Umpire signaled “Out”. The SS’s face indicated he thought he caught it, but he smartly threw Home because the 2B Ump as silent. It’s all in the video
@@johnwright6311 yeah you said that the first time. The umpire didnt signal out until the SS was already throwing home. There were 0 outs so the SS could either go home to 3rd for double play or 2nd to first double play and a run scores. The SS clearly didnt expect a triple play or he would have told the 3B to tag 3rd and would have run off the field after the runner was tagged knowing it was 3 outs.
He didnt catch the ball in the air, and he knew he didnt catch the ball in the air. The 2B umpire signaled out but was wrong.
@@auzmo They NEEDED TO APPEAL the tag up to get the third out.
There was no need for an appeal. The ss caught the ball (out 1) and threw it home, the catcher threw it to the 3rd basemen who was touching the bag doubling off the runner who went home without tagging up (out 2) and then tagged the runner from second sliding in (out 3). The appeal was unnecessary.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but failing to retouch a base after a catch is by definition an appeal play, but if it's obvious what it's all about, it's not necessary to appeal verbally (like in the typical situation when a liner is caught by an infielder who throws to a base that a runner is trying to get back to). In this case it was not obvious, since the runner that occupied third didn't try to return and the throw there ended up being to tag out the next runner.
By the language of the appeal play rule, the intent of the fielder making the appeal must be clear to the umpire. It can be verbal, hand signal, or even just eye contact if that makes the intent clear to the umpire. In this case the c and 3b were trying to throw out the advancing runner (who had properly tagged up) and the umpires correctly ruled there was no clear intent to appeal.
The home plate umpire blows the call you can not rule force at home and the rule catch later. They should have stayed with their original ruling. Or order catch and sent runners back to their bases hitter out and then next batter.
did you miss the part where PU made no call at home, as no play was made on an unforced runner? he didn't screw up anything. The only blemish you can put on the crew (MAYBE) is that U2's out call on the catch should've been quicker and more emphatic; but we really can't tell what he vocalized. seems like maybe he was surprised
oh, and yes, the announcers were correct that R3 shouldn't have been back at third once play was resumed - he can't go back to third after reaching the next base (home) and the ball becoming dead. that said, the umpires didn't really allow him to return as a live runner, he's just a retired runner still standing on the field; there was little point spending time arguing about where the guy was standing, just put the ball in play, get him out.