Finally! A groupset worth talking about - SRAM Apex AXS
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2023
- SRAM Just dropped the new entry level Apex range for AXS electronic and 12 speed Mechanical. This is just our first slightly over excited look. Wew think this opens some options up for building amazing handling and fitting bikes with very little compromise to the groupset performance or weight.
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I was a Luddite until i recently had gx AXS fitted to my MTB which in happy with, so glad there is an option for AXS for my gravel bike now
I work for the first UK retailer to carry this groupset and had a chance to try it briefly - it really made me, a friction shifting retrogrouch, much more comfortable with electronic shifting.
It performs great, did my best to make it clunk and mess up and could not get it to fail.
It's still pricy but not exotically so making it a real consideration, cross compatible through drams ecosystem, the batteries last long enough and are so easy to pop on charge and back on the bike. Sram are hitting it our of the ball park in regards to e-shifting for the people!
I've always liked Apex. The plain bushings in the jockey wheels need to be kept greased but if one does, they last and last. I also like the guide wheel being mounted on a cam arrangement which means the B screw adjustment is correct across a wide range of cassettes once adjusted. I have always found the rear shifting incredibly easy to adjust and keep in adjustment. Sadly the front was more difficult but that is irrelevant here. Hopefully this will lead to some more realistically priced bikes. Everybody wins....
It works well. I am still running apex levers.
I have Apex on an gravel bike I've had for several years. I did replace the jockey wheels at one point. That is easy enough. Just over a year ago, I did replace the derailleur. I went ahead an replaced it what a Force. The Apex one started shifting like garbage and I couldn't figure out why. I finally realized the spring was worn or something. I tried cleaning everything well, but it didn't help. The Force can't be rebuilt, so I had to buy a new one. But, it has been great. The brakes work awesome.
I am honestly glad you mentioned Ratio technology. I am a mechanic in the States who loves them. I am actually a dealer for thier product and will likely remain using them. I have a few bikes with AXS and a few still 11 speed and i think its time to upgrade to 12 to make all my wheels compatible with each other. But yes it is sad that a mainstream brand can take out a chunk of a smaller company's business.
I recently upgraded an old RED fully mech group set to 12 sp.... flawless shifting. The groupset was probably close to 11 years old, and updating it saved me so much money - I'm also running SRAM on three other bikes (11 sp hydraulic) which are destined for said upgrade - Soon I'll be all 12 sp... for a fraction of the price compared to buying new, all thanks to Ratio Tech... Chears guys! 😊
Thanks for getting directly to it's a 1by.
I'm still waiting for road CUES. Current Rival is already built borderline cheap for its price, can only imagine the longevity issues with this optimized construction.
Good job @SRAM 💯 Reasonable cost 👍😎
This kind of groypset makes me love SRAM
You're the only road/gravel focused channel that actually talks about functionality of the drivetrain (and how down the pecking order it is on importance of an overall build).
Every other drop bar channel either 1) talk drivetrains akin to the De Beers corporation and their 2 months salary on an engamement ring nonsense or 2) borderline conspiracy theorists who've ammassed a cult of friction shifters and square taper bottom bracket evangelists conspiring against big bike.
Mapdec with balanced bike tech opinions on RUclips. How bloody refreshing.
Oh no. We need to do MTB content. Thank you. I am going to be pushing this message of priorities a bit in the next few weeks.
Nice move by SRAM. They're doing what Shimano perfected latetely. Which is: using cheaper bike groupset name but changing things up a little and making it expensive! Loving it! And Chinese emerging brands surely do too.
Looking forward to the 12 speed cassette fitting on the old universal hg freehub with either filling in middle slot or bigger cog. Definitely on my list to due to not having change freehubs.
That's why I bought my mountain bike with sram, the cassette was a standard HG freehub despite being 12 spd
I like Apex name, simple and short.
A general group set question, I might be a luddite in some peoples eyes, but my thing is Audax and multi day unsupported and self reliant rides, as such I'm very much a fan of total reliability and ability to fix on the roadside, I ride a bespoke stainless steal Rourke, coupled with Ultegra mechanical with TRP957 rim brakes on carbon wheels - a very specific build, that without luggage comes in @ 8kg. Hopefully that paints a picture of what I ride and how I use it, but the question is - how long do you think I will be able to keep geting an Ultegra quality, rim brake group set for? Or how long would you expect Shimano to keep supplying the individual parts for?
It’s a great question. And I suspect it won’t be long. I do think a mechanical groupset will always exist for wilderness riding, but it won’t be at Ultegra. In a way, nor should it be. Ultegra was always intended to be a racers groupset. 105 and Tiagra were for touring. They were and still are much more durable. We all got snobbish about 105 as those lines got blurred. My little prediction is that for endurance riders we might see hub gears and pinion gear boxes take off.
4:16, I was thinking the same thing, but I’m guessing he still has a market for those who want high end/rim-brake mechanical 12 speed. Since Apex is entry level, if someone wants a lighter option and don’t mind the extra tinkering, Ratio is still a great option.
Yeah they will just not have new units to convert. Not really as big a deal because the new buyers are not the take your shifter apart crowd. I love mine. It is for more of a camping gravel rig and I run mechanical brakes for ease of service and easy repairs. They certainly are not the best braking but they always work with minor adjustment.
the group-set is 4th most important thing when building a bike? #1, 2 & 3... frame, wheel set & the mechanic?
Frame, Fit, Wheels, Gears. But I like adding the mechanic in there. 🥰
Will the mechanical brakes and levers work with the old GX rear derailleur?
As far as I can see the Eagle branding has consistent compatibility . So if it is a GX eagle 12s I think the answer is yes.
Pretty disappointed with the lack of new rim brake/electric options. I'd love to upgrade my road bike (Campag Athena) but by the time I go ultegra + wheels I'd be cheaper building anew bike, and obviously sticking campy isn't an option. Thought SRAM might be my saviour but alas! Any recommendations?
Venn wheels do a good selection of rim brake wheels
Do you think it will be possible to link up a rival FD to the APEX system? Or will they have locked that out?
I can’t see why not. The AXS app will still program the buttons. I will check this though.
4:15 Ratio is working on their own 12 speed rear derailleur or a new upgrade kit, which makes the old rds into direct mount RD.
It has sealed wire pulley., smart. minimal shifting housing required. But unlike Sram Transmission it's one part, not separate sandwich plate design.
I forgot to mention saw it on bikerumor.
Interesting.
5:10 interesting to see that component wise the gap between mtb and gravel is also being closed. Should be cool to run gravel cranks or a derailleur on an xc race bike.. I already go for gravel specific baggy shorts on kneepadless days.
Interesting times, just like music, the crossover stuff is usually the coolest.
XC MTB is the next big thing according to GCN. Gravel has gone full circle.
Get some L-Twoo ERX electronic groupsets to review. Would love to see you compare it with this sram Apex groupset.
Until I can get spares on next day delivery from somewhere I’m just not interested. Keeping an eye on them though.
@@Mapdec that is valid, but good Chinese wheel sets forced western brands to respond. If we want to see price drops in SRAM and Shimano, highlighting these products can help. Excited to see new apex stuff all well - I'm a big fan of my SRAM rival etap.
wheeltop edx 2x road coming asap! 400 euro once 1x gravel version comes out ,i am all over it!
I know you glossed over the cassette details, but that’s one of the more interesting things. Being able to get 12 speed cassette on a normal freehub without going XDR 🤯 suddenly my old Reynolds ATR wheels are going to get a new life in 12 speed mode. They never came with XDR, just XD.
Does the freehub has small enough play though? In order to accomodate tighter spacings
@@feedbackzaloop if you have play in your freehub, it’s either broken or Mavic
@@stevoc123 or ride 10 speed shimano not to notice it.
@@stevoc123 or zipp :3
@@HCMORGI 😀
Making it compatible with mechanical eagle is gonna be huge for bikepackers here. A lot of people stick with flat bar mtb when they want a dropbar 29er. Until now, the only way to get dropbar Eagle was electronic
It will be huge here too. Big hills and wilderness. Perfect for this set up
You can have drop bar eagle with ratio technology stuff.
Yes but I'd want a smaller chainring for some occasions - is there a compatible 32t? Should be no big deal I assume - I'm already running a 32t & Eagle RD on my MTB
So, this a 12 speed, but why do they mention 11-44? Is it going to work only with HG drive? I want to build a road 1x12, with 10-36 cassette, XDR drive.
Yes. They have 12speed cassettes for a HG
Have to upgrade to Rival or Force cassette to get the lighter XDR`s
@@Nico-jt8ll Not clear for me why... the derailleur should match the shifters, and the cassette - the hub's drive.
Among them, only the number of speeds and the distance between sprockets in the cassette has to remain constant. Is there a difference between 12 speed HG cassettes and 12 speed XDR cassettes in this regard? In MTB, as a counterpart, the SRAM GX shifter+derailleur works equally well with an 11-50 cassette (HG drive) and a 10-50 (XD drive).
Paid the same for my SRAM Rival XPLR 12spd groupset with powermeter. Your prices in GBP are what we pay in Euros (is UK a premium market for OEMs due to currency rates?)
Brexit tax. 😖
@@Mapdec rubbish
Hello Paul, serious option for running on a winter bike. Currently trying 1x11 grx over 2x11 on my winter bike/summer gravel bike. I really getting to like it. However, having rode it this week in the Dale's I think the 10/44 cassette would be better. Then switch to 10/36 for use as a road winter bike. The new GRX 1x12 lacks options. The real appeal of Sram is cross compatibility with the same pull ratio on the road and mountain derailleur. Once again Sram are showing Shimano how it should be done. We are reallly seeing how the two brands are becoming very different in their market offer. Sram are the real world offer rides offer. Shimano the OEM offer and stuck in everyone who rides a bike road races. Well I use to but not anymore. Those days are long behind me but I still love riding my bike just in a different way.
Cool. I don’t know why you would bother switching though. If anything just swap out a chainring if you really feel the need.
@@twillyspanksyourcakes Not at all. Even though I longer race I'm still fit enough to use 1x11 with a range of cassette options from 11/32 for road to 11/42 for gravel. I'm no ride like a pro with 50/34x11/34 to ride on the road. Don't get the need for mountain bike gear ratios on race road bikes. Same as not no Eagle 52 for me on my mountain bikes. The reason I decided to try 1x one of my road bikes is because for general riding most people only use the middle of the cassette on 2x. Gearing depends on how and where you ride. Still only on 11 of my other bikes, 14/27 is fine for me. Did 120 miles hilly ride on it recently including 15% inclines, just stayed sat down.
@@Mapdec Excuse me. Don't you ride on 1x11. Just saying new mechanical Apex is cheap enough to use in winter.
4:14 looksl ike this might be all metal apart from pulleys, I know SX had fragile plastic rear part, which was overpriced junk, I got Deore cheaper than what it cost at full price, so got a nice deal and better product.
But this Apex range looks better than the cheap SX junk.
Seems like ALU bolts, into ALU body, that's great.
But unlike the Eagle stuff it does not have a wire pulley, for better housing routing. But an barrel nut is not a bad idea if it won't fail by a small knock. I hit my hand on TRP Spyke mechanical brake once the barrel adjuster snapped. But if this one is weak too I guess you can swap it for a better one.
But the design without wire pulley will mean crazy long housing.
I hope for adjustable and replicable clutch. I out of the newest drivetrains only Sram Transmission is modular.
Thought the same about the pulley for cable routing. But there has to be an adjustment screw on the derailleur because all new road bikes will have 100% internal cable routing.
@@Nico-jt8ll I am not sure what you mean. Extra adjustment is great, but I don't know what internal routing has to do with it.
0:40 What is in your opinion more important than group set? I am guessing you mean frame and wheels.
Yes. Absolutely
love how the x1 eagle axs rear mech is shown to be "origional equipment" only so the likes of us brick and mortar shops cant sell it as a seperate upgrade as part of a kit, or build a frame choice for someone who wants the apex shifters and this mech.. yet the likes of crc/wiggle, ribble etc etc will do what they usually do and order 2500 of these for thair 2000 bikes and sell the 500 extra seperately at next to nothing :( CHEERS SRAM! other than that it actually looks like a decent groupset and hopefully brings high end components to customers who want to get rid of their mechianical groups for winter bikes and things, 4/5 for me on initial impressions
Sram's direct answer to Shimano CUES?
Maybe. The trend is looking better for compatibility
Cues is e-bike compatible. Not sure if sram has a direct competitor for e-bikes.
SRAM answer to soon to be launched Shimano GRX 12s mechanical
I think this release is a mixed bag and for me personal there isn`t anything groundbreaking. On my roadbikes i stick with a blend of Force and Rival and gravel/mtb remains Rival and GX.
The good:
- Apex road doubletaps are now official 12s and fully Mtb (x-actuation cable pull) compatible. You don`t have to buy and import Ratio`s stuff any longer.
- the whole Axs group seems to be identical to Rival and just missing the front derailleur
The neutral:
- cheap kassettes (but too heavy..), which are compatible to everyday cheap shimano standard hubs
- the price drop to Rival is not big enough
Good post. It feels like they put the price of Rival up to fit this in. We all got emails feeling us to buy in Rival before the price increase.
The PM crankset is not lighter, it is heavier but not too much, "less than 40g heavier" as they claim.
Still DOT in the brakes?
no big deal. wear gloves, be a pro.
@@Mapdec In the bike shop I'd do it for clients if I had to but I wouldn't wanna have it on any of my own bikes. There's the additional money and time cost and environmental impact. But so far I never ran across a bike with SRAM brakes anyway and if so only the DB8's with mineral oil. I think the people who decide which bikes to get don't really want the hassle in the workshop either.
@@Mapdec And from what I've heard SRAM road brakes are a little weaker than Shimano ones but I can't confirm or deny that myself since I never had the chance to test fully bedded in SRAM road brakes. I actually never even saw a SRAM equipped road or Gravel bike in my area. As for the braking power - on my Shimano equipped Trek Checkpoint SL it's just barely enough as it is - I actually had to switch to third party semi metallic brake pads to get the power I need out of them.
Question: How is it possible to achieve a crankset design that weighs more without a power meter vs with?
Also, no offense but you might be the biggest SRAM fan I know on YT :) I used to love SRAM back in mechanical days for their groupsets on both road and mountain, I thought they really gave Shimano something to worry about and that could only be great for the industry overall. Last bunch of years tho, Sram has been pushing the product lines in such a direction that I lost pretty much all love and respect for them. Less options marketed as 'more choices', heavier and more expensive products. Pricing this 1x group anywhere near a 105 di2 made me laugh.
Maybe. I guess part of doing a lot of custom build work is that we have customers with unusual needs. Maybe very low ratio for mountain bike touring, or position adjustments, etc. SRAM usually gives us more options for customisation. It shortcomings are fairly easy for us to overcome. I like that fact we can get spares of almost every seal, and smart part. I don’t think sram make great cranksets, but they do make the most reliable power meters. Shimano still wins hands down for almost every thing with a Bowden cable, but electric shifting has sram easily as market leaders now.
I think he misspoke. If you go to 3:15, the page states "less than 40g heavier than standard crankset". No not less weight, but "less than 40g heavier"
I read it as "the power meter version is 40g (or less) heavier than the non power meter version. Poor choice of words on their part.
Everyone's groupos have gotten heavier. It's not a SRAM thing. That's just what happens when the market moved to disc brakes. That said, I don't like how ANYONE'S hydraulic hoods feel. So I'm running 11sp mechanical shifters converted to 12sp. Ratio claims that they should at least be able to get 13 and maybe 14sp ratchets in there. AXS still shifts better though and I'd certainly be using it if I liked the hood shape
This is also nowhere near the price of 105. No idea what you're saying😅
Seen any black cats? 😳
Nice move by sram to get in a cheaper option before CUES takes over
That CUES name is still beyond lame. Deore is literally right there 😂
I wonder if Road cues will appear this year. We only just saw our MTB / urban stuff arrive.
I don't see the same excitement for CUES as I'm seeing for the new SRAM set
@Jason Wu that's because CUES was never intended for performance bikes and this is, despite the cost
@@jasonwu9287 I agree with veganpotter, cues was never meant to evoke "excitement" its just a get down and dirty functional group
I think SRAM missed a trick here by not doing 2x mechanical 12s. Could have been a 105 killer.
Maybe. It does leave Shimano with a big answer to find with new GRX, and Road Cues.
Pricing for the mechanical groupset is disappointing, would have hoped for it to be more in the 800 range, not 1000+.
It’s it mad that electronics are now cheaper than mechanical cogs and springs. I think it all about the labour costs of assembly.
@@Mapdec exactly I have been saying for years electronic shifting is by far cheaper to build. Buttons and an electric motor are cheap compared to assembling all the moving parts and Bunch cheaper than making all those tiny parts in a shifter.
1370 euros? Ultegra di2 is 1700 euros lol
Shame its 1x only.
Still not really great value for a 1x groupset at $2000 AUD for the wireless.
Agreed!
Have you seen the price are these manufacturers having laugh
They don't care because the majority of the groupsets will be bought in bulk at huge discount by the bike manufacturing giants. Individuals buying groupsets at rrp is not their main driver
Pretty surprised that it's 12sp. Since it is 12sp, AXS 13sp will be coming very soon. But as someone not buying this, I think it would have been smart to keep it 11sp and make it even cheaper.
13sp. I just don’t see why anymore. Even 1x12 now gives you every gear you need. I would rather they put time into other features like auto shift, auto trim, or worked on drive train efficiency, maybe even regenerative charging
@Mapdec Cycle Works with 1x13, I'd get rid of all but 1 front derailleurs I own. Not a fan of the huge gear gaps with 1x12. I have 4500' gain climbs right outside of my door. 1x12 is fine for that. But if I'm doing those climbs mixed with riding in a group on the flats, I don't want a 20rpm cadence difference on the flats. A 13sp 10-44 with a 44t chainring wouldn't have much bigger gaps than the 12sp 10-36(48/32 chainrings)I ride with on my main climbing bike. I've ridden my gravel bike on group rides with a 12sp e*thirteen 9-46 and 42t chainring and the gaps between gears is intolerable.
Also, if you have a specific cadence range and power to hold for a workout a coach gives you, those gear gaps can make certain intervals impossible to do properly.
*Also, nearly anywhere else I've lived, a 13sp with a 10-36 and a 48t chainring would have great gear gaps and would be plenty of gearing for any of the rollers I used to frequent but that doesn't cut it here in Utah.
@@Mapdec improving drivetrain efficiency and regenerative charging are pretty contrary concepts😉
I'm disappointed, I thought they would make an axs rim brake version. Also they could have just expanded rival and released new cranksets. Right now I'm fighting the urge to buy the new electric ltwoo groupset. Everyone abandoning rim brakes sucks. Yes I have disc bikes, but I also have rim brake bikes. I just feel like the industry is causing a revolt, and many will look to China to fill the void.
Maybe. It never happened when MTB went all in on disc though.
@@Mapdec Switching from v-break to disc brakes on MTB was a big leap in braking quality. In the transition period, it was easy to find frames and forks that were compatible with both types of brakes. I had a Trek with wheels for both types. In MTB, the brakes and derailleurs are separate from each other. On the road, if you don't have the right shifters, you can't do anything. Rim brakes on the road were good enough in 90% of cases. So people don't understand why their 4 year old often very expensive bikes suddenly have to become obsolete.
Just buy Force Axs rim brake shifters and pair with any Axs rear derailleur you want 👍The china stuff will probably have lots of faults.
It just looks so ugly
Absolutely can’t see your 1x is ok approach - entry level often goes with people that are new to the sport and just maybe not so fit … and exploring means you haven’t necessarily been there and hence don’t know how long and or steep the uphills will be etc.
Right?😉
Quite the opposite. We live in the Lake District. Steep hills surround us. 1x gives you a very low gear for the hills. We miss a bit of top end speed but by then I’m coasting down hills as fast as my skills and bravery allow. We don’t really have flat ground anywhere. 1x works great here.
@@Mapdec 100%. Not surprising all the 1x naysayers are roadie traditionalists for tradition sake (ride what you want but odd this portion of 2x riders are so evangelical about it...). The podium on Unbound from this year and years prior is skewed towards 1x12 mullet setups yet people can't conceive how 1x is a legitimate drivetrain for offroad use. I'm in the same scenario as you - lots of hills around where I like and lots of undulating terrain and enjoy a good bit of singletrack wherever I can find some. On a 2x system it's be shifting way more often than I'd like.
@@Mapdec but wouldn't a beginner profit from a 2x12 setup with better ratio ???
Better ratio for what?
42t x 11-44t is damn newbie friendly. It´s less complicated to shift and gears are easier than a 2x setup which could be 48/34t x 11-34t.
Very very ugly, and very disappointing to abandon front shifter 👎
1x... not interested
I was just thinking about this out on my ride. With a 46 front and 10-45 rear there isn’t a single gear I would miss.
That's a great range. Not quite as fast as a proper road bike.. But the stepping becomes a big (climbing) issue imho. And having to shuffle so many gears rather than just flick the front on big dips.
who is the freak that buys campagnolo?
But in all honesty, i think that the pricing is slightly too high. Pricing is too close to Rival. It needs to be under 1k. It just has to be. Otherwise theres not enough price difference to go down in quality instead of up.
Yes. Rival and Force had big price increases recently. All dealers were being encouraged to buy in before the price hike. Makes sense now.
Includes paid promotion
Lame thing to be frank. Exploring on a battery... my ass.
Aye. It’s good they kept a mechanical option in there.