One thing you didn’t mention is the app for the electronic group sets. SRAM’s is superior. (This also makes mixing and matching easier). However, like you, I prefer 2x so I would lean towards GRX.
GRX. Lots of reasons. I'm already deep into the Shimano ecosystem. DOT Fluid is a deal breaker, so no SRAM. I love the ergonomics of the GRX shifters. And Shimano shifting is just superior to SRAM, especially in the front. I've never tried anything from Campy, except for a short ride on a modern mechanical groupset. I didn't care for the feel of the shift lever paddles and how much throw was needed.
I use 2x Force AXS and Ultegra Di2. Both are great but I prefer SRAM’s gearing, shifting, and hood shape. Use 2x for everything from road, to gravel to CX.
Also a long time (therefore biased) Campagnolo user. I love my Ekar but understand a lot of the ergonomics and optics are opinion therefore no right or wrong. However I have to categorically say if you're categorizing shifter logic, Campagnolo has to win hands down. Total two levers: one for easier, one for harder. Maybe it's a terminology issue. The realization of the shifters might be a separate issue but the logic literally couldn't be any simpler. On a separate issue, I can't get over how people can say that the requirement for the occasional use of the barrel adjuster on mechanical shifting is far worse than the hours lost to troubleshooting and replacing crimped cables, limping home on a single speed due to loss of battery charge, spontaneously entering crash mode while racing or, from personal experience, the time and expense of replacing a battery. I have a firm belief that anyone that doesn't have a follow car everywhere they go shouldn't be racing on an electronic shifting bike. Good review though, thanks for the insights.
Yeah, just an ergonomic thing for me with Ekar. Electronics have introduced a whole new level of failure though, eh? We used to - and still do - say that a rider 'had a mechanical' when something on the bike gets sideways. Now I like to joke that a rider 'had an electrical' when the drivetrain futzes out. I rode an EPS bike as a singlespeed in the rain at the GFNY, and have had fun more times than I can count with dead and dying SRAM and Shimano systems. Oh, bicycles. Cheers.
Truer words have rarely been spoken. Especially in times where everything is supposed to be "sustainable" it's hard to understand why companies are pushing items that require electric energy to function and create hard-to-recycle electronic waste in the long run.
A tip often overlooked on Shimano Di2 is you can configure the shifting to work exactly like SRAM etap as I have done on my Ultegra Di2 road bike. Both RH levers shift to a smaller rear cog (harder gear), both LH levers shift to a larger rear cog (easier gear) and the buttons on the tops of the hoods do the same for the front derailleur if you have 2x. Much more intuitive shifting and much easier if you have thick gloves on for cold weather say.
I’ve had all three the Ekar was very problematic and didn’t live up to expectations and yes the brakes were good but didn’t make up for the problems , the GRX was ok had some problems with disc rub , I’ve got Sram red 1x on my Grail and love it not a problem in fact an absolute joy , I will stick with Sram in future for sure , another great episode Ben
@@northkyt had trouble getting the chain on the biggest cog , gears jumped the bike had been in three different bike shops all had trouble setting it up , it would ride well for a while then be problematic again I had to have part of the gear selector replaced ,It got to be embarrassing on long rides at best it was agricultural I was very disappointed with it ,I’ve read reviews that did mention the gear selection being a bit clunky, anyway on my present bike I’ve got sram red and it’s very very reliable
@@alanhill7965 thanks a lot for your reply. That's too bad, the Ekar group is so promising. I've heard similar accounts from a local shop too. A great option for mechanical 1x12 is SRAM Force 1/22 HRD mechanical shifter/hydraulic disc brake group with SRAM Xplor AXS 12 speed cassette, AXS flattop chain, and Ratio Technology kit that upgrades the shifter from 11 speed to 12 speed AXS compatible. The shifting is really good and consistent even when dirty.
@@northkyt I've only had my Ekar for a couple months, but the shifting is fabulous. Snick-snick up the cassette, bang-bang down. Very positive and precise. Electronic seems like overkill on a 1x. I did the install myself.
I own both red AXS and GRX Di2. Shimano shifts better under load has bigger range with 2x and can be used as mullet with xtr/XT derailleur. And the button logic can be customized. The hoods are wider and more comfy. I currently have the GRX with a Garbaruk OSP that allows for MTB cassettes.
Mixed feelings from that Garbaruk 11 speed cassette (11-50) probably fine while off-roading , but on the road missing those smaller gaps. Not sure on garbaruks pulley wheels. Seems that shimano lasts longer and are cheaper and in addition with garbaruk derailleur cage, becomes a grass magnet or deeper grass fields )
I have the Ekar groupset and Campagnolo Levante wheels on my Trek Checkpoint SLR. What I loved on my Shimano groupset is that you can shift and brake at the same time. With the Ekar you're unable. Indeed, the shifting down is not the most handy with the little 'button'. But maybe the biggest difference is that Campagnolo is Italian, good looking and more exclusive so you buy it with your heart and not with your brain. It's like Valentino Rossi, Ducati and Ferrari. Full of emotion.
The fact that Campagnolo keeps braking and shifting completely separate in their levers is the exact "brainy" reason I opted for Campy decades ago and won't switch to anything else on my road and gravel bikes. The only thing where Campagnolo shifting is a little uncomfortable is (mechanical) shifting from the drops, but I hardly ever do that anyway.
I use both grx mech 2x, and ekar both work very well. Shimano shifts well better than anybody guiet,fast,smooth. Campagnolo much more affirmative ( love it on rougher stuff, pavement. 44x9 is huge! I never run out of gear flying downhill. Campy wheels are fast! Personal i like the campagnolo ergo. Shimano front derailleur seems to often need touched up. Campy 13 is tighter close spacing so it's sensitive.
I use 1x Sram Force AXS for gravel and my CX bike. Both works great and can’t be easier and intuitive to use/shift. Fully wireless with reliable power meter option. Highly recommend
Thanks for the great informative summary of the various group-sets. I've been riding Campy ergo levers on my road bike for 20+ years so the thumb shifters are second nature to me now. It might be different on gravel, but I'm too old and slow at this point to start racing gravel. Cables all the way for me. I've never had one break with the Campy, they just work. A little maintenance now and then for the peace of mind knowing you will have gears for the full ride is worth it. Maybe I'm becoming a bit of a retro-grouch, but I'm not ready to trust electronic shifters. Plus, I like that I can actually work on the bike with the older style cable shifters and (gasp!) rim breaks. :-) The only downside I can see with the Campy is that is is ONLY a 1x setup. As I've gotten older, I need more gears!
As I age I find my gears have gotten lower, but not wider in range. I simply don't use a 120-inch top gear any more, and find the ranges available with Ekar just fine.
Mein neues Rad bekommt eine Campagnolo Ekar Ausstattung. (Kommt im März 2023). Nach vielen vielen Jahren mit Shimano, kommt endlich wieder Campagnolo ans Rad 🙂 Ich freue mich; es ist einfach Kult.
For a steel or titanium frame, def. would go with Campagnolo Ekar - with external cable routing. For carbon frame with internal cable routing - SRAM Force AXS…simply because it‘s available and much cheaper than comparable Shimano. At least here in Europe. Love your vids, much appreciated
@@bicivini well, understand so far. But why you would choose the mechanical Ekar over a mechanical GRX/SRAM on a Ti frame for example with cables outside?
Hi Ben ; your impressions are as close to my own as I have found on you tube so far. I ordered a SC stigmata with sram cable shift 2 yrs ago, mid covid, due to cost, but the bike came with sram Force axs 1X12 . After compromising with my shop on the price upgrade I was delighted with the luxurious shifting characteristics for about 6 months. As that system works via bluetooth there are 3 separate batteries, 3 separate firmware components and each must be coordinated with the phone app you referred to. If you are old school and feel bikes should be simple, dependable mechanical etc. This plush system may not be for you. If you are the type of rider whereby more tinkering adjusting monitoring ( on the phone app) then have at'er. Not if but when a firmware upgrade is required somewhere in the system you will need to work your way through to figure out which. Out on the trail the shifting in one direction or the other ( up or down) will stop and you will ride out or walk depending on what gives up first. All components rely on batteries which will fail sooner than they indicate in their literature for various reasons. Checking tiny green lights before each ride is more hassle than you might think if you are old school. But when these things are all set up & working correctly they are very very pleasent. Your comments re that Campy system I will look into for my next bike - hopefully not for a while though. cheers sir !
For a pure gravel build, the SRAM mullet. Massive gear range, burlier mtb rear derailleur, single shift button on each lever eliminates missed shifts on the rough stuff, X01 and XX1 chains are stupid long lasting, ability to throw a spare battery in the saddle bag and the AXS ecosystem makes adding or changing components so simple.
I own both red AXS and GRX Di2. Shimano shifts better under load has bigger range with 2x and can be used as mullet with xyr/XT derailleur. And the button logic can be customized.
Hmmm. Was looking for a one by with sram and a 10-44 with a 40 in front. But i am going to look at a Ridley Kanzo fast today. Grx di2. I guess it comes with a 11-42 cassette and a 42t chainring in front. A more narrow range. The owner of this bike is a former national champion from Denmark who has also been no10 in Ronde Van Flandren and who has entered and completed TdF once. I gues that range is no issue to him, but should i really Go for a sram rivalaxs xplr instead ?… i guess he i putting a lot of watts in the pedals compared to me 😊😊 I have to say his bike is not used much, is fairly new and is a customer build, even the custom paint falls into my taste. Persumable it is going home with me today 😂❤
Firstly, I really appreciate your unbiased review on tech. After years with Shimano I was introduced to Sram, I like the simple and direct Sram. Never used Campagnolo. Thanks for doing these videos friend!
Excellent Video! I would have liked more info/opinion on the mechanical groupsets, but still great info. I'm going with a Shimano 1x grx 810 mechanical on my build. It's pretty hilly where I live but I did get the 40t chainring. So we'll see. Price, availabilty, and my mechanics opinion :) were big factors for me.
Sram force 1 is a good shout. Plus if you want to modify the group a bit, you can get a ratio upgrade kit for $90 that makes the group work with 12 speed cassettes, allowing you to have the 10-44 gear range.
Wow - I’ve never broken a SRAM battery and hadn’t heard of this being an issue…(original red etap on road and GX AXS/Reverb AXS on MTB user). Good to know. Ekar: love it. Functions. Never had an issue, but I’ve dropped chains. The brakes are fantastic. Would love to get a wireless electronic version. (And yes, SRAM’s shift logic on the drop bars is by far the best, even though I do love the thumb shifter on Ekar.)
I got a custom steel bike with external cables with Ekar. I really like it. It’s prob by no means the best gravel groupset. But I’m more of an Allroad guy and I love Campy so I’m biased. The 13sp cassette however truly does make the gear range feel pretty much as close as 2X. That’s sth I love coming from SRAM 1X 11sp on the same bike.
@@meisterpropper8912 No. Not really. It just works. My frame has pretty long chainstays which helps with 1x drivetrains bc the chainline is less extreme in the outermost gears of the cassette. Most of the people I know who had trouble indexing mechanical 1x drivetrains did so because of rather short chainstays and extreme chain angles.
I converted my Sram Force 1 to 13sp using Ratio's conversion kit on my Open U.P.. The shifting isn't as crisp as 11sp but is pretty darn good. I use the Ekar 9-36 for road and 10-44 for gravel/off-road riding. As for electronic shifting, wireless is the only way to go. Might as well have cables if you still have to mess with wires.
Good video. I could not agree more about the shape of all Campy shifters. Great parts, but the ergonomics of do not work for me. I have to move my hands/wrists to shift. I spent one year on the road with it, to give it a fair test, and never again. I run GRX Di2, with a double, and love it.
I am biased as I have used Campy' for a very long time. But the button is the big plus for me, I find it easier to use and the separation of the change makes sense. So the choice would be a lot closer, if not a winner. The Shimano would not be my choice as the shifter buttons are too close together and the swipe stuff for your head unit I can't see being useful. But all that said best review of these groupsets I have listened too.
Really enjoyed this comparative review. Perhaps Ben, you can expand and review the mullet setups too. Many of us gravel cyclists are into the adventure side and have frame bags, etc. Add some big hills with the added weight of a loaded bike and the 1x groupo quickly finds its limits. A lot have experimented with their own Frankenstein solution to create their own mullet drivetrain. Curious what works the best. Also, I'd like to see a future review of high engagement hubs like what you did here covering the pluses and minuses. I9 vs King vs DT Swiss vs Onyx vs Hadley vs whatever else. Again, this is more from an adventure perspective where often taking the gravel road or trail less traveled. Is this also a thing for the racing side of gravel? Just a thought. Anyway, great stuff.
David, thanks for the detailed thoughts. And yeah, I hear you on loaded bikes! SRAM’s 10-52 is the best or at least biggest 1x option, but I would still argue for a 2x for a big range. A mechanic was just telling me yesterday how difficult it is to keep derailleurs tuned for big-range 1x rental bikes that take a beating. Noted on high-engagement hubs. Cheers.
I have GRX one by mechanical. I have enough battery operated stuff. Don’t need another thing to put on a charger. Seriously, I plan to do some adventure riding where there might be no place to plug in my bike. I love the simplicity of one by. If you’re not racing or doing fast group rides then the closer incremental shifting isn’t an issue. By the way, Wolf tooth makes a 38 chainring for GRX if a lower gear is needed. I have one. Hopefully when Shimano goes to 12 speed on GRX it will offer a mechanical version. Doubtful though!
Good content, I appreciate your reviews and opinions on the videos you produce. Haven’t noticed this issue on your other videos, but on this one, the background music is drowning out your speaking.
I just bought a bike with Shimano GRX 2x. This is my first "gravel" bike and group after many years of riding and running everything. I've done extensive mountain and road racing, did cyclocross and fatbike racing. Finally, I've done a lot of long distance touring as well. For me it was about the hoods on the GRX and that is about as personal as your saddle choice. I don't like the jump from 46 to 31 on the front ring so eventually I'll change that, but I'm eternally grateful that I have choices other than the dreaded triple. Also, I run 1x on my fatty and my MTB and love it.
Remember a few years ago you did Unbound with Bike Radar, were cramping, and looked a little pudge? To now. Winning SBT. Super impressive. I really think guys from altitude have an advantage at that race. I also believe this video would help someone trying to decide make the best decision for themselves.
Nice upload, great content as ever. SRAM AXS eTap for the drivetrain and shifting, but Shimano brakes are more efficient and effective (I’ve had a similar experience to one of the other contributors, below, my SRAM brakes took a couple of visits to the bike shop to be bled until just right).
The problems with most Shimano brakes are: - Most will randomly lose oil or get contaminated by air ingress. I had that in my XTR brakes as well as in my GRX 812 ones. - The GRX 810 / 812 grips are cheap plastic, which requires extremely gentle treatment when bleeding the brakes. One of my handles would leak oil on braking, the other had its bleed reservoir thread stripped when using a dedicated plastic bleed kit. - The GRX grip rubber boots are rough, hideous and prone to hurting hands after a long ride. The Di2 version is much better, as are road counterparts, especially the Ultegra and Dura Ace ones with their fine ribbing, as well as any Sram and Campagnolo ones.
@@thedownunderverse The Di2 variety may be a bit more elegant than the mechanical GRXes, but the rubber boot ribbing looks equally as crude as the mechanical versions'. I much prefer Ultegra's (Di2 or mechanical), Dura Ace's (Di2 or mechanical) and any Sram's (both eTap AXS and mechanical) - so much more polished! Also, the base of the GRX grips is terribly unreliable. I've had them randomly leak oil, the bleeding thread of the reservoir was stripped (essentially destroyed by a dedicated plastic bleeding valve), leak oil through the interface between the reservoir and the hoses when squeezed. Back to the crude rubber grip boots - these would abrade the palms, cause calluses and hurt the hands during longer riders - something I've never experienced with the very comfortable Sram Force eTap AXS or mechanical Ultegra grips.
@@LeoInterHyenaem Ah yep. That makes sense and I totally agree. I test rode a GRX600 bike and those hoods are actually just like Ultegra/DA… so for mechanical GRX there is an improved hood option that will work with the GRX800 levers. They don’t seem to be available anywhere though. And there’s no such alternative for GRX Di2 given the unique lever design. Hopefully this all changes with the rumoured March release of GRX 12 speed…!
14:08 Regarding driving the Garmin: Is this also possible with Shimano 105di2? And is it possible with the Garmin Edge 530? What setting shall I do? Thanks for the insightful video!
Thank you so much for your hard work! 😊 Need some advice: 🙏 I only have these words 🤔. (behave today finger ski upon boy assault summer exhaust beauty stereo over). Not sure how to use them, would appreciate help. 🙏
One thing I can’t find anywhere but I’d love to see is a good comparison of Xplr vs eagle rear mechs. Obviously the gear range is a little different but other than that how do they compare ie. noise, shifting chain retention???
That's a good idea. Last weekend a mechanic was saying the Eagle derailleurs are a bit of a pain to work on for the shop rental fleet in that it's hard to keep them shifting perfectly across the entire giant cassette on bikes that take a beating. Good idea for a test. Thanks.
Have a 2022 Spec Diverge which I really like, except the SRAM GX Eagle AXS derailleur really stinks IMO. It seems like the clutch, which does not appear to be adjustable, is set too-weak. I've had more chain drops than on any other bike I own, and, when you are really moving in the smallest cogs, then stop pedaling, there is this kinda whiplash/snap as the chain goes slack and the derailleur springs forward and back....unnerving...and I'm so much more aware of pedal stroke/pressure. Also, when out of the seat hammering, I'm thinking about the chain "please don't fall off". Poor choice on Spec part, so I will do an expensive upgrade at some point
I am sticking with SRAM for the range. I am strictly 1by guy when it comes to gravel and Shimano range is just a deal breaker. On top of that SRAM can operate crazy big cassettes unofficially. I have seen guys using 10-51 and it worked fine.
thumbs up just for the good silly joke on the t-shirt... Shimano always my favorite BUT! I am a mullet mechanical guy it I was before gravel specific groupsets and still my poison... now a days GRX in the front SLX in the back, X2 by 48/31 and 11/46 casette ... keep it clean and your legs even on a bad day will have gears to ride you home... never worry about battery trouble.
I have a 2022 Diverge Expert that came with SRAM Rival 1x and mountain bike rear derailleur and cassette. I love the shifting, but I dislike the gearing. It's nice that it goes from 11-50 except that I am hunting gears too much in the lower gears. It goes 11,13,15,17,19 and I'm always too high or too low. I wish they single step for the lower gears and then make a big jump. Even if I opt for the more high end cassette that starts at 10, the same issue exists but maybe those gears will fit my pedaling better.
Eagle mullet suits offroad more. On road it feels like I'm never in the right gear to hold cadence. I'm thinking xplr handles this better. Sprockets with bigger gaps in the higher gears will feel off. Xplr and the newer grx options are probably better option for more mixed riding.
Campy all the way. You cannot go wrong with any of those groupsets, just campy will make people talk more when you have a coffee break, Shimano won’t attract any attention and SRAM might. Also mechanical for me, love the feelings and the sound of a gear changing, not the sound of a motor. Electronic have their merits, but all those bikes will be obsolete in few years, remember 10s Di2? Well, you can now throw away the groupset and they are not even 10 years old. Not exactly in the spirit of what bike should be... A bit like the quartz vs mechanical watches story....
I'm confused on what's complicated about the Ekar shifters. One is up, one is down. Can't get simpler. Ergonomics are down to preferences. I did go Ekar for the 1x13.
It's funny, when buying my very first road bike years ago, i tried out a few models, and Campa shifters clicked right away for me, it was very intuitive. Shimano on the other hand, i couldn't figure out on my own how to shift into easier gears without asking. It was one of the reasons for going Campa that time around, but to be fair, they all work fine, once you get used to them.
Great Vid Ben - In one of your recent vids you mentioned that one thing you really like with 2x when graveling is because it facilitates getting dropped chains back on "sans arreter" lol and I was like "hmph! I've never dropped a chain on my (relatively new) SRAM Xplr 1x - the clutch is stronger than Moonshine! ! What's he going on 'bout!? "(say with Canadian accent) . Well, the very next week at VT Overland, I dropped said 1x chain not once, but twice! (thrashing about on the class 4 roads) and had to climb off and correct each time, losing the groups I was clinging to for dear life.......So! I'm now fixin to install a 1x specific chain catcher - perhaps you could / should add this to your next comparisons because it might just win you over in favour of 1x?!?!
Hey Paul. Thanks. Funny story, and yeah, I hear you! That's one of the reason I like testing stuff in events; you find yourself in different situations than you do 'just riding along'. Chain catchers are also a double-edged sword. As in, they're great when they work but can make things worse when they don't. I remember watching Tom Boonen wrestle with his bike in the Arenberg Forest when his chain came off there during Paris-Roubaix, and it got stuck *behind* the chain catcher. The same thing happened to guy racing for the win at Wild Horse Gravel this year; he had to stop and mechanically unbolt his chain catcher to free the chain. I'm not saying chain catchers are evil or anything like that - just that they ain't perfect either!
The gear lever actuation means Shimano is the only option for me, the other two being unbearable(Campag) and fugly(SRAM) in my experience. But Shimano need to up their GRX 1x game. I fitted a SRAM 42-10 cassette to get something approaching a decent range with the GRX derailleur but their current 1x offering is nowhere near good enough.
Picking up a revolt advanced 1 on Tuesday and am worried whether 1x will be enough for me. Have always used Shimano 2x mechanical and can’t afford the top spec revolt just to get 2x electronic shifting. Informative video, thanks!
@@goldenretriever6261 here in Korea there was a Medium in store exactly what I was looking for and an advanced 0 in a small. Gravel is not popular amongst Koreans yet so that probably helped. Hope you get to buy one soon!
@@TheRidewithBenDelaney Can you die from excitement? you might beat me in a race with your 2x top of the range revolt, but the phantom green is the best color and that’s all that matters! 😂
@@TheRidewithBenDelaney I have done 120km on the bike and already feel the jumps on the cassette are too big. After years of 2x close ratio riding it feels weird on 1x. 38 and 44 I really don’t need. What are your thoughts on a Sram 10-36 cassette? The jumps are obviously much closer. Would it work?
Campagnolo 11 speed fitted with wide range road cassette (11-34) and 46/30 (Praxis, Shimano GRX, Rotor)? What is your thought about this for someone who does not race, nor ride a lot on single track (but primarily on gravel roads) and does not need to pedal actively at speeds faster than 50km/hr (and assuming of course, the frameset accomodates a 2X system)? Preferable to Ekar 13?
Well done! One question - when is the last time you've broken a genuine Campagnolo shift cable? In 3+ decades starting with the original Ergopower 8 speeds on personal as well as a small fleet of rentals my answer is NEVER. I've for an ex-rental bike right now that I ride regularly with original cables from 2005. Shimano STI tends to eat 'em in my experience while Campagnolo's just keep on going. I wouldn't ride around the block (especially if stopping was involved) on SRAM but that's just me :-)
You know, I don't think I have ever broken a Campy shift cable. But I've ridden probably less than 1% of my life on Campy, just because so few bikes spec them. Shimano and SRAM, I have.
Same experience here. I use all 3 brands and the shimano and sram shifter designs do seem to wear out cables. Never had an issue with Campagnolo. I like all 3 though for different reasons.
"But I've ridden probably less than 1% of my life on Campy, just because so few bikes spec them" That's a sad commentary on the state of things from a guy old enough to remember when the only bikes "specced" with anything were at-best mid-level offerings. Pro-quality bike meant choosing a frame, component groupset, etc. and having it built-up by a pro just for you rather than yanking it out of a box slapped together somewhere in Asia. Those were the days IMHO!@@TheRidewithBenDelaney
Do you think GRX Di2 is going to get the same refresh / upgrade we've seen for Dura Ace, Ultegra & 105? 12 speed 2X charged at the rear mech and semi wireless - would be great if it happened....
hello, just found your channel and subscribed. I would like to upgrade my Surly Midnight special gravel bike. I can either upgrade to a carbon fork and carbon wheels or upgrade the group set. I mainly ride gravel with some pavement 20-to-50-mile ride. Would love your advice. Thank you.
These have bad compromises of either range or gapping. Ive cobbled together a 2x12 axs group using rival with a road link. I have _no idea_ why this isnt something sram could support out of the box. Ive got close gaps on the road and a huge reduction for climbing loose steeps off road. The 10-44 cassette and 33/46 chainring does for me what 1x cant, and most 2x just cant get the range. I think ekar is the closest to what ive set up but its mech only and I love batteries.
If you live in a relatively flat area and your top-end speed isn't your highest priority, would you say a 1-by setup gets the job done? I'm considering switching to a gravel bike from my road bike and usually, they only come with 1-by configurations... If that is the case I would happy just buy two pair of wheels (road and gravel) stick with 1by SRAM.
I have Shimano on road bike and SRAM on mtb and gravel. My only real complaint with SRAM is quality of brakes. I have to bleed those things all the time. I don't think SRAM knows how to make a proper master cylinder. I have had both systems replaced under recalls and they still suck...
D-Fly - which is what lets your shifters talk to a Garmin. The new Shimano 12spd groups have this built in, but initially they did not. So that's what this little thing does.
Still using my canti/v brake CX/ general outdoor use bike with 2x10 sram force with gx rd. Have to get new wheels now due to worn out brake tracks. For a new bike split between grx 810 2x mechanical or grx di2.
Hey Ben, love your video but I'm going to have to point out one error. Campy is not the only 13 speed groupset, Rotor produce a 13 speed hydro groupset also (I have it on my Gravel bike), it's not for everyone but it's covered many thousands of KM's without any issues.
Good question! I don't know the full list of 13spd-compatible wheels, but Fulcrum, 3T and Roval work, and of course Campy. I tested the Campy Levante wheels, which are gorgeous. The unpierced carbon inner rim means no need for rim tape.
Ok. Let me put it like this. If the bike you want costs 2.500€ with GRX600, 3.300€ with GRX800 and closer to 4.000 with other groupsets? Everything else is the same. I’m thinking going with the GRX600 + a nice carbon wheelset upgrade…
I have ridden around the world and entered many races along the way. Nothing beats mechanical simplicity and reliability. Batteries are fragile and a pain in the ass to charge.
The age old question...sh..ty Shimano, crappy Campy, same for SRAM ??? No seriously, i have GRX as well as the SRAM XPLR AXS bikes, and luv them both but for differing reasons...GRX for no-brainer simplicity, and SRAM XPLR AXS for its SOTA options, like running the RockShox Reverb AXS dropper post...best of both worlds...old school or avant-garde...another age old question...LOL...
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Which is your favorite and why?
Always have been Shimano mechanical 10 & 11 Speed across 4 bikes = trying to cut back on having too many 'Spares' & extra parts to keep track of...
One thing you didn’t mention is the app for the electronic group sets. SRAM’s is superior. (This also makes mixing and matching easier). However, like you, I prefer 2x so I would lean towards GRX.
@@rickbeckner9906 yeah, good point. Shimano's is confusing. And for a while it was PC only!
GRX. Lots of reasons. I'm already deep into the Shimano ecosystem. DOT Fluid is a deal breaker, so no SRAM. I love the ergonomics of the GRX shifters. And Shimano shifting is just superior to SRAM, especially in the front. I've never tried anything from Campy, except for a short ride on a modern mechanical groupset. I didn't care for the feel of the shift lever paddles and how much throw was needed.
I use 2x Force AXS and Ultegra Di2. Both are great but I prefer SRAM’s gearing, shifting, and hood shape. Use 2x for everything from road, to gravel to CX.
Also a long time (therefore biased) Campagnolo user. I love my Ekar but understand a lot of the ergonomics and optics are opinion therefore no right or wrong.
However I have to categorically say if you're categorizing shifter logic, Campagnolo has to win hands down. Total two levers: one for easier, one for harder. Maybe it's a terminology issue. The realization of the shifters might be a separate issue but the logic literally couldn't be any simpler.
On a separate issue, I can't get over how people can say that the requirement for the occasional use of the barrel adjuster on mechanical shifting is far worse than the hours lost to troubleshooting and replacing crimped cables, limping home on a single speed due to loss of battery charge, spontaneously entering crash mode while racing or, from personal experience, the time and expense of replacing a battery. I have a firm belief that anyone that doesn't have a follow car everywhere they go shouldn't be racing on an electronic shifting bike.
Good review though, thanks for the insights.
Yeah, just an ergonomic thing for me with Ekar.
Electronics have introduced a whole new level of failure though, eh? We used to - and still do - say that a rider 'had a mechanical' when something on the bike gets sideways. Now I like to joke that a rider 'had an electrical' when the drivetrain futzes out.
I rode an EPS bike as a singlespeed in the rain at the GFNY, and have had fun more times than I can count with dead and dying SRAM and Shimano systems. Oh, bicycles.
Cheers.
Truer words have rarely been spoken. Especially in times where everything is supposed to be "sustainable" it's hard to understand why companies are pushing items that require electric energy to function and create hard-to-recycle electronic waste in the long run.
A tip often overlooked on Shimano Di2 is you can configure the shifting to work exactly like SRAM etap as I have done on my Ultegra Di2 road bike. Both RH levers shift to a smaller rear cog (harder gear), both LH levers shift to a larger rear cog (easier gear) and the buttons on the tops of the hoods do the same for the front derailleur if you have 2x.
Much more intuitive shifting and much easier if you have thick gloves on for cold weather say.
Yea, good point!
Are you running on synchro shift mode?
@@paulcampos203 Not usually, no.
I’ve had all three the Ekar was very problematic and didn’t live up to expectations and yes the brakes were good but didn’t make up for the problems , the GRX was ok had some problems with disc rub , I’ve got Sram red 1x on my Grail and love it not a problem in fact an absolute joy , I will stick with Sram in future for sure , another great episode Ben
Cheers. Thanks for sharing your experience with all three.
@Alan Hill What problems did you have with Ekar?
@@northkyt had trouble getting the chain on the biggest cog , gears jumped the bike had been in three different bike shops all had trouble setting it up , it would ride well for a while then be problematic again I had to have part of the gear selector replaced ,It got to be embarrassing on long rides at best it was agricultural I was very disappointed with it ,I’ve read reviews that did mention the gear selection being a bit clunky, anyway on my present bike I’ve got sram red and it’s very very reliable
@@alanhill7965 thanks a lot for your reply. That's too bad, the Ekar group is so promising. I've heard similar accounts from a local shop too. A great option for mechanical 1x12 is SRAM Force 1/22 HRD mechanical shifter/hydraulic disc brake group with SRAM Xplor AXS 12 speed cassette, AXS flattop chain, and Ratio Technology kit that upgrades the shifter from 11 speed to 12 speed AXS compatible. The shifting is really good and consistent even when dirty.
@@northkyt I've only had my Ekar for a couple months, but the shifting is fabulous. Snick-snick up the cassette, bang-bang down. Very positive and precise. Electronic seems like overkill on a 1x. I did the install myself.
I own both red AXS and GRX Di2. Shimano shifts better under load has bigger range with 2x and can be used as mullet with xtr/XT derailleur. And the button logic can be customized. The hoods are wider and more comfy. I currently have the GRX with a Garbaruk OSP that allows for MTB cassettes.
I'll have to check out the Garbaruk. Cheers.
Mixed feelings from that Garbaruk 11 speed cassette (11-50) probably fine while off-roading , but on the road missing those smaller gaps. Not sure on garbaruks pulley wheels. Seems that shimano lasts longer and are cheaper and in addition with garbaruk derailleur cage, becomes a grass magnet or deeper grass fields )
I have the Ekar groupset and Campagnolo Levante wheels on my Trek Checkpoint SLR. What I loved on my Shimano groupset is that you can shift and brake at the same time. With the Ekar you're unable.
Indeed, the shifting down is not the most handy with the little 'button'. But maybe the biggest difference is that Campagnolo is Italian, good looking and more exclusive so you buy it with your heart and not with your brain. It's like Valentino Rossi, Ducati and Ferrari. Full of emotion.
The fact that Campagnolo keeps braking and shifting completely separate in their levers is the exact "brainy" reason I opted for Campy decades ago and won't switch to anything else on my road and gravel bikes. The only thing where Campagnolo shifting is a little uncomfortable is (mechanical) shifting from the drops, but I hardly ever do that anyway.
Why is it that so many people feel the need to say "shram" when there is no "H" in Sram?
Why is there a “p” in ptarmigan if it’s silent?
x2. (British/Commonwealth English speakers are the biggest offenders for some reason.)
Because
It’s pronounced “schwram”. Get it right, nerd!
To make sure everyone knows sram is nothing but a sham.
I have Tiagra 9-speed on my alu cross bike. It shifts flawlessly and I can keep up with the expensive bikes.
Heck yeah. It's all about the motor!
I’ve been very impressed with Tiagra, it’s often overlooked
I use both grx mech 2x, and ekar both work very well. Shimano shifts well better than anybody guiet,fast,smooth. Campagnolo much more affirmative ( love it on rougher stuff, pavement. 44x9 is huge! I never run out of gear flying downhill. Campy wheels are fast! Personal i like the campagnolo ergo. Shimano front derailleur seems to often need touched up. Campy 13 is tighter close spacing so it's sensitive.
I use 1x Sram Force AXS for gravel and my CX bike. Both works great and can’t be easier and intuitive to use/shift. Fully wireless with reliable power meter option. Highly recommend
Thanks for the great informative summary of the various group-sets. I've been riding Campy ergo levers on my road bike for 20+ years so the thumb shifters are second nature to me now. It might be different on gravel, but I'm too old and slow at this point to start racing gravel. Cables all the way for me. I've never had one break with the Campy, they just work. A little maintenance now and then for the peace of mind knowing you will have gears for the full ride is worth it. Maybe I'm becoming a bit of a retro-grouch, but I'm not ready to trust electronic shifters. Plus, I like that I can actually work on the bike with the older style cable shifters and (gasp!) rim breaks. :-)
The only downside I can see with the Campy is that is is ONLY a 1x setup. As I've gotten older, I need more gears!
I hear you. Thanks for sharing.
As I age I find my gears have gotten lower, but not wider in range. I simply don't use a 120-inch top gear any more, and find the ranges available with Ekar just fine.
Mein neues Rad bekommt eine Campagnolo Ekar Ausstattung. (Kommt im März 2023). Nach vielen vielen Jahren mit Shimano, kommt endlich wieder Campagnolo ans Rad 🙂 Ich freue mich; es ist einfach Kult.
For a steel or titanium frame, def. would go with Campagnolo Ekar - with external cable routing. For carbon frame with internal cable routing - SRAM Force AXS…simply because it‘s available and much cheaper than comparable Shimano. At least here in Europe. Love your vids, much appreciated
Cool. Thanks for your take.
Explain me please how the frame material is related to your choice of groupset? hmmm
@@hellebarde1450 full integration of cables (e.g. SRAM easier than Shimano - carbon mostly fully integrated) vs. lines/cables outside (steel, ti)
@@bicivini well, understand so far. But why you would choose the mechanical Ekar over a mechanical GRX/SRAM on a Ti frame for example with cables outside?
@@hellebarde1450 it’s the only affordable Campagnolo that makes sense, without going stellar in price. That’s why electronic no Record group
Hi Ben ; your impressions are as close to my own as I have found on you tube so far. I ordered a SC stigmata with sram cable shift 2 yrs ago, mid covid, due to cost, but the bike came with sram Force axs 1X12 . After compromising with my shop on the price upgrade I was delighted with the luxurious shifting characteristics for about 6 months. As that system works via bluetooth there are 3 separate batteries, 3 separate firmware components and each must be coordinated with the phone app you referred to. If you are old school and feel bikes should be simple, dependable mechanical etc. This plush system may not be for you. If you are the type of rider whereby more tinkering adjusting monitoring ( on the phone app) then have at'er. Not if but when a firmware upgrade is required somewhere in the system you will need to work your way through to figure out which. Out on the trail the shifting in one direction or the other ( up or down) will stop and you will ride out or walk depending on what gives up first. All components rely on batteries which will fail sooner than they indicate in their literature for various reasons. Checking tiny green lights before each ride is more hassle than you might think if you are old school. But when these things are all set up & working correctly they are very very pleasent. Your comments re that Campy system I will look into for my next bike - hopefully not for a while though. cheers sir !
Cool. Thanks for sharing your experience.
For a pure gravel build, the SRAM mullet. Massive gear range, burlier mtb rear derailleur, single shift button on each lever eliminates missed shifts on the rough stuff, X01 and XX1 chains are stupid long lasting, ability to throw a spare battery in the saddle bag and the AXS ecosystem makes adding or changing components so simple.
I own both red AXS and GRX Di2. Shimano shifts better under load has bigger range with 2x and can be used as mullet with xyr/XT derailleur. And the button logic can be customized.
Hmmm. Was looking for a one by with sram and a 10-44 with a 40 in front. But i am going to look at a Ridley Kanzo fast today. Grx di2. I guess it comes with a 11-42 cassette and a 42t chainring in front. A more narrow range. The owner of this bike is a former national champion from Denmark who has also been no10 in Ronde Van Flandren and who has entered and completed TdF once. I gues that range is no issue to him, but should i really Go for a sram rivalaxs xplr instead ?… i guess he i putting a lot of watts in the pedals compared to me 😊😊 I have to say his bike is not used much, is fairly new and is a customer build, even the custom paint falls into my taste. Persumable it is going home with me today 😂❤
SRAM. I just hate wires.
I've been following your channel for a little while now. Thanks for the great, concise and entertaining content. Good stuff!
Thank you.
Great video, informative, straight to the point and fun. Thanks!
We need the Sraekamano Group...
Firstly, I really appreciate your unbiased review on tech. After years with Shimano I was introduced to Sram, I like the simple and direct Sram. Never used Campagnolo. Thanks for doing these videos friend!
No more music background please. Can’t watch. Sorry
Thanks for the feedback. I have scaled way back.
Excellent Video! I would have liked more info/opinion on the mechanical groupsets, but still great info. I'm going with a Shimano 1x grx 810 mechanical on my build. It's pretty hilly where I live but I did get the 40t chainring. So we'll see. Price, availabilty, and my mechanics opinion :) were big factors for me.
Been watching your videos for a while now but just realized I wasn’t subscribed! Love the content and I am now subscribed!
Thank you.
Sram force 1 is a good shout. Plus if you want to modify the group a bit, you can get a ratio upgrade kit for $90 that makes the group work with 12 speed cassettes, allowing you to have the 10-44 gear range.
For almost the same money you can get rival etap... There's no real reason to still buy force mechanical.
@@YannickLB I believe David is referring to the many that already have the force setup, for $90 you get to move to 12-speed wide range options.
Wow - I’ve never broken a SRAM battery and hadn’t heard of this being an issue…(original red etap on road and GX AXS/Reverb AXS on MTB user). Good to know. Ekar: love it. Functions. Never had an issue, but I’ve dropped chains. The brakes are fantastic. Would love to get a wireless electronic version.
(And yes, SRAM’s shift logic on the drop bars is by far the best, even though I do love the thumb shifter on Ekar.)
I got a custom steel bike with external cables with Ekar. I really like it. It’s prob by no means the best gravel groupset. But I’m more of an Allroad guy and I love Campy so I’m biased. The 13sp cassette however truly does make the gear range feel pretty much as close as 2X. That’s sth I love coming from SRAM 1X 11sp on the same bike.
Hi, have you faced any issues with the calibration?
@@meisterpropper8912 No. Not really. It just works. My frame has pretty long chainstays which helps with 1x drivetrains bc the chainline is less extreme in the outermost gears of the cassette. Most of the people I know who had trouble indexing mechanical 1x drivetrains did so because of rather short chainstays and extreme chain angles.
thx!!@@sebastianm2381
I converted my Sram Force 1 to 13sp using Ratio's conversion kit on my Open U.P.. The shifting isn't as crisp as 11sp but is pretty darn good. I use the Ekar 9-36 for road and 10-44 for gravel/off-road riding. As for electronic shifting, wireless is the only way to go. Might as well have cables if you still have to mess with wires.
Whew! I was so glad you clarified the vegan thing at the end! 😂 Nice eval. I’ve used both and am slowly becoming a SRAM convert.
Good video. I could not agree more about the shape of all Campy shifters. Great parts, but the ergonomics of do not work for me. I have to move my hands/wrists to shift. I spent one year on the road with it, to give it a fair test, and never again. I run GRX Di2, with a double, and love it.
I am biased as I have used Campy' for a very long time. But the button is the big plus for me, I find it easier to use and the separation of the change makes sense. So the choice would be a lot closer, if not a winner. The Shimano would not be my choice as the shifter buttons are too close together and the swipe stuff for your head unit I can't see being useful. But all that said best review of these groupsets I have listened too.
... have listened to*. Otherwise completely agreed.
Nice overview!
Sram AXS mullet - 40t chainring and 10/52 cassette
You nailed it! Great vide, very concise, and easy to digest.
Glad it was helpful.
Really enjoyed this comparative review. Perhaps Ben, you can expand and review the mullet setups too. Many of us gravel cyclists are into the adventure side and have frame bags, etc. Add some big hills with the added weight of a loaded bike and the 1x groupo quickly finds its limits. A lot have experimented with their own Frankenstein solution to create their own mullet drivetrain. Curious what works the best.
Also, I'd like to see a future review of high engagement hubs like what you did here covering the pluses and minuses. I9 vs King vs DT Swiss vs Onyx vs Hadley vs whatever else. Again, this is more from an adventure perspective where often taking the gravel road or trail less traveled. Is this also a thing for the racing side of gravel? Just a thought.
Anyway, great stuff.
David, thanks for the detailed thoughts. And yeah, I hear you on loaded bikes! SRAM’s 10-52 is the best or at least biggest 1x option, but I would still argue for a 2x for a big range. A mechanic was just telling me yesterday how difficult it is to keep derailleurs tuned for big-range 1x rental bikes that take a beating.
Noted on high-engagement hubs.
Cheers.
I have GRX one by mechanical. I have enough battery operated stuff. Don’t need another thing to put on a charger. Seriously, I plan to do some adventure riding where there might be no place to plug in my bike. I love the simplicity of one by. If you’re not racing or doing fast group rides then the closer incremental shifting isn’t an issue. By the way, Wolf tooth makes a 38 chainring for GRX if a lower gear is needed. I have one. Hopefully when Shimano goes to 12 speed on GRX it will offer a mechanical version. Doubtful though!
Good content, I appreciate your reviews and opinions on the videos you produce. Haven’t noticed this issue on your other videos, but on this one, the background music is drowning out your speaking.
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. Hopefully my production skills are improving.
I just bought a bike with Shimano GRX 2x. This is my first "gravel" bike and group after many years of riding and running everything. I've done extensive mountain and road racing, did cyclocross and fatbike racing. Finally, I've done a lot of long distance touring as well. For me it was about the hoods on the GRX and that is about as personal as your saddle choice. I don't like the jump from 46 to 31 on the front ring so eventually I'll change that, but I'm eternally grateful that I have choices other than the dreaded triple. Also, I run 1x on my fatty and my MTB and love it.
Do you mean 48/31 or 46/30?
Remember a few years ago you did Unbound with Bike Radar, were cramping, and looked a little pudge? To now. Winning SBT. Super impressive. I really think guys from altitude have an advantage at that race. I also believe this video would help someone trying to decide make the best decision for themselves.
There will be more cramping and pudge in the future, I'm sure.
I’ve found rival axs wide to be a great group set so far for gravel
Looking forward to hearing about those 36cm bars on the BMC Ben!
Leaving for Utah in a few days... Just rode it tonight after lending it to a pro mechanic friend to get his take.
Good one, Ben! Upgrading to SRAM AXS on cross bike, SRAM AXS mullet on gravel and will probably always be shimano on road.
Cross bike?! That's still a thing? 😄
@@TheRidewithBenDelaney maybe a topic for your next video! 😂
Ben love the reviews and your presentation style. One thing. The music is a slight bit too loud on this one.
Thanks for the feedback. Very helpful and I appreciate it.
gracias por tu información! La estaba necesitando. LIKE!
Nice upload, great content as ever. SRAM AXS eTap for the drivetrain and shifting, but Shimano brakes are more efficient and effective (I’ve had a similar experience to one of the other contributors, below, my SRAM brakes took a couple of visits to the bike shop to be bled until just right).
The problems with most Shimano brakes are:
- Most will randomly lose oil or get contaminated by air ingress. I had that in my XTR brakes as well as in my GRX 812 ones.
- The GRX 810 / 812 grips are cheap plastic, which requires extremely gentle treatment when bleeding the brakes. One of my handles would leak oil on braking, the other had its bleed reservoir thread stripped when using a dedicated plastic bleed kit.
- The GRX grip rubber boots are rough, hideous and prone to hurting hands after a long ride. The Di2 version is much better, as are road counterparts, especially the Ultegra and Dura Ace ones with their fine ribbing, as well as any Sram and Campagnolo ones.
@@LeoInterHyenaem the GRX Di2 hoods are “much better”, yet they are ribbed the same as the mechanical 810 levers…
@@thedownunderverse The Di2 variety may be a bit more elegant than the mechanical GRXes, but the rubber boot ribbing looks equally as crude as the mechanical versions'. I much prefer Ultegra's (Di2 or mechanical), Dura Ace's (Di2 or mechanical) and any Sram's (both eTap AXS and mechanical) - so much more polished! Also, the base of the GRX grips is terribly unreliable. I've had them randomly leak oil, the bleeding thread of the reservoir was stripped (essentially destroyed by a dedicated plastic bleeding valve), leak oil through the interface between the reservoir and the hoses when squeezed. Back to the crude rubber grip boots - these would abrade the palms, cause calluses and hurt the hands during longer riders - something I've never experienced with the very comfortable Sram Force eTap AXS or mechanical Ultegra grips.
@@LeoInterHyenaem Ah yep. That makes sense and I totally agree. I test rode a GRX600 bike and those hoods are actually just like Ultegra/DA… so for mechanical GRX there is an improved hood option that will work with the GRX800 levers. They don’t seem to be available anywhere though. And there’s no such alternative for GRX Di2 given the unique lever design. Hopefully this all changes with the rumoured March release of GRX 12 speed…!
14:08 Regarding driving the Garmin: Is this also possible with Shimano 105di2? And is it possible with the Garmin Edge 530? What setting shall I do?
Thanks for the insightful video!
Thank you so much for your hard work! 😊 Need some advice: 🙏 I only have these words 🤔. (behave today finger ski upon boy assault summer exhaust beauty stereo over). Not sure how to use them, would appreciate help. 🙏
Very solid content. Very nice job
Thank you.
One thing I can’t find anywhere but I’d love to see is a good comparison of Xplr vs eagle rear mechs. Obviously the gear range is a little different but other than that how do they compare ie. noise, shifting chain retention???
That's a good idea. Last weekend a mechanic was saying the Eagle derailleurs are a bit of a pain to work on for the shop rental fleet in that it's hard to keep them shifting perfectly across the entire giant cassette on bikes that take a beating. Good idea for a test. Thanks.
Have a 2022 Spec Diverge which I really like, except the SRAM GX Eagle AXS derailleur really stinks IMO. It seems like the clutch, which does not appear to be adjustable, is set too-weak. I've had more chain drops than on any other bike I own, and, when you are really moving in the smallest cogs, then stop pedaling, there is this kinda whiplash/snap as the chain goes slack and the derailleur springs forward and back....unnerving...and I'm so much more aware of pedal stroke/pressure. Also, when out of the seat hammering, I'm thinking about the chain "please don't fall off".
Poor choice on Spec part, so I will do an expensive upgrade at some point
I am sticking with SRAM for the range. I am strictly 1by guy when it comes to gravel and Shimano range is just a deal breaker. On top of that SRAM can operate crazy big cassettes unofficially. I have seen guys using 10-51 and it worked fine.
thumbs up just for the good silly joke on the t-shirt... Shimano always my favorite BUT! I am a mullet mechanical guy it I was before gravel specific groupsets and still my poison... now a days GRX in the front SLX in the back, X2 by 48/31 and 11/46 casette ... keep it clean and your legs even on a bad day will have gears to ride you home... never worry about battery trouble.
I have a 2022 Diverge Expert that came with SRAM Rival 1x and mountain bike rear derailleur and cassette. I love the shifting, but I dislike the gearing. It's nice that it goes from 11-50 except that I am hunting gears too much in the lower gears. It goes 11,13,15,17,19 and I'm always too high or too low. I wish they single step for the lower gears and then make a big jump. Even if I opt for the more high end cassette that starts at 10, the same issue exists but maybe those gears will fit my pedaling better.
*higher gears
Eagle mullet suits offroad more. On road it feels like I'm never in the right gear to hold cadence. I'm thinking xplr handles this better. Sprockets with bigger gaps in the higher gears will feel off. Xplr and the newer grx options are probably better option for more mixed riding.
Campy all the way. You cannot go wrong with any of those groupsets, just campy will make people talk more when you have a coffee break, Shimano won’t attract any attention and SRAM might.
Also mechanical for me, love the feelings and the sound of a gear changing, not the sound of a motor. Electronic have their merits, but all those bikes will be obsolete in few years, remember 10s Di2? Well, you can now throw away the groupset and they are not even 10 years old. Not exactly in the spirit of what bike should be... A bit like the quartz vs mechanical watches story....
I have a 10 Speed di2 on one of my bikes. Why should I throw it away? It still works perfectly and is fully supported for spares.
Actually, Rotor Components also has a 13 speed cassette, unfortunately requiring a preferential hub. The groupset costs $3350.
Yes, good shout. Thanks for the correction.
I'm confused on what's complicated about the Ekar shifters. One is up, one is down. Can't get simpler.
Ergonomics are down to preferences.
I did go Ekar for the 1x13.
Yeah, sorry - I meant SRAM is simpler than Shimano. Ekar is super straightforward for shifting, you're right.
It's funny, when buying my very first road bike years ago, i tried out a few models, and Campa shifters clicked right away for me, it was very intuitive. Shimano on the other hand, i couldn't figure out on my own how to shift into easier gears without asking. It was one of the reasons for going Campa that time around, but to be fair, they all work fine, once you get used to them.
I had that same experience with my first Shimano STI group! Funny.
Ooooi, is that a fancy new intro?! 👍
You know it!
Nice review Sir
Thanks for all the info
My pleasure.
Wait... you cannot use the thumb shifting on the Campy?? How long did you 'struggle' to get accustomed to it?
Great Vid Ben - In one of your recent vids you mentioned that one thing you really like with 2x when graveling is because it facilitates getting dropped chains back on "sans arreter" lol and I was like "hmph! I've never dropped a chain on my (relatively new) SRAM Xplr 1x - the clutch is stronger than Moonshine! ! What's he going on 'bout!? "(say with Canadian accent) . Well, the very next week at VT Overland, I dropped said 1x chain not once, but twice! (thrashing about on the class 4 roads) and had to climb off and correct each time, losing the groups I was clinging to for dear life.......So! I'm now fixin to install a 1x specific chain catcher - perhaps you could / should add this to your next comparisons because it might just win you over in favour of 1x?!?!
Hey Paul. Thanks. Funny story, and yeah, I hear you! That's one of the reason I like testing stuff in events; you find yourself in different situations than you do 'just riding along'. Chain catchers are also a double-edged sword. As in, they're great when they work but can make things worse when they don't. I remember watching Tom Boonen wrestle with his bike in the Arenberg Forest when his chain came off there during Paris-Roubaix, and it got stuck *behind* the chain catcher. The same thing happened to guy racing for the win at Wild Horse Gravel this year; he had to stop and mechanically unbolt his chain catcher to free the chain. I'm not saying chain catchers are evil or anything like that - just that they ain't perfect either!
Ekar all day. Didn’t even mention weight of the groupsets…ekar always wins.
The gear lever actuation means Shimano is the only option for me, the other two being unbearable(Campag) and fugly(SRAM) in my experience. But Shimano need to up their GRX 1x game. I fitted a SRAM 42-10 cassette to get something approaching a decent range with the GRX derailleur but their current 1x offering is nowhere near good enough.
Picking up a revolt advanced 1 on Tuesday and am worried whether 1x will be enough for me. Have always used Shimano 2x mechanical and can’t afford the top spec revolt just to get 2x electronic shifting. Informative video, thanks!
The bikes are in stock? I tried buying one on the spring.
@@goldenretriever6261 here in Korea there was a Medium in store exactly what I was looking for and an advanced 0 in a small. Gravel is not popular amongst Koreans yet so that probably helped. Hope you get to buy one soon!
If the gearing that comes on the bike isn't enough, then get an XT derailleur and a big ol' cassette. I hope you like the Revolt! I certainly do.
@@TheRidewithBenDelaney Can you die from excitement? you might beat me in a race with your 2x top of the range revolt, but the phantom green is the best color and that’s all that matters! 😂
@@TheRidewithBenDelaney I have done 120km on the bike and already feel the jumps on the cassette are too big. After years of 2x close ratio riding it feels weird on 1x. 38 and 44 I really don’t need. What are your thoughts on a Sram 10-36 cassette? The jumps are obviously much closer. Would it work?
Campagnolo 11 speed fitted with wide range road cassette (11-34) and 46/30 (Praxis, Shimano GRX, Rotor)? What is your thought about this for someone who does not race, nor ride a lot on single track (but primarily on gravel roads) and does not need to pedal actively at speeds faster than 50km/hr (and assuming of course, the frameset accomodates a 2X system)? Preferable to Ekar 13?
That gearing is perfect for that
Sounds great to me. That's the gear combo I use on gravel 2x.
Forgot the SRAM Wide 2x group set, 43/30 in front and 10-36 in back, better than the Xplr option.
Well done! One question - when is the last time you've broken a genuine Campagnolo shift cable? In 3+ decades starting with the original Ergopower 8 speeds on personal as well as a small fleet of rentals my answer is NEVER. I've for an ex-rental bike right now that I ride regularly with original cables from 2005. Shimano STI tends to eat 'em in my experience while Campagnolo's just keep on going. I wouldn't ride around the block (especially if stopping was involved) on SRAM but that's just me :-)
You know, I don't think I have ever broken a Campy shift cable. But I've ridden probably less than 1% of my life on Campy, just because so few bikes spec them. Shimano and SRAM, I have.
Same experience here. I use all 3 brands and the shimano and sram shifter designs do seem to wear out cables. Never had an issue with Campagnolo. I like all 3 though for different reasons.
"But I've ridden probably less than 1% of my life on Campy, just because so few bikes spec them"
That's a sad commentary on the state of things from a guy old enough to remember when the only bikes "specced" with anything were at-best mid-level offerings. Pro-quality bike meant choosing a frame, component groupset, etc. and having it built-up by a pro just for you rather than yanking it out of a box slapped together somewhere in Asia. Those were the days IMHO!@@TheRidewithBenDelaney
Ben Delaney which is the best water bottle you like choose your favorite. I liked and subscribed because of your haircut 😂
Do you think GRX Di2 is going to get the same refresh / upgrade we've seen for Dura Ace, Ultegra & 105? 12 speed 2X charged at the rear mech and semi wireless - would be great if it happened....
I do, yeah. When? No idea.
Better but canyon grizl 6 with apex 1x12 or More expensive canyon grizl 8 with grx 1x12 ??
hello, just found your channel and subscribed. I would like to upgrade my Surly Midnight special gravel bike. I can either upgrade to a carbon fork and carbon wheels or upgrade the group set. I mainly ride gravel with some pavement 20-to-50-mile ride. Would love your advice. Thank you.
Cool, thanks. I'd replace whichever is more worn out. Good luck.
Why dont you compare the Kar in th 10-44 cassette woth 38 chainring?
These have bad compromises of either range or gapping. Ive cobbled together a 2x12 axs group using rival with a road link. I have _no idea_ why this isnt something sram could support out of the box. Ive got close gaps on the road and a huge reduction for climbing loose steeps off road. The 10-44 cassette and 33/46 chainring does for me what 1x cant, and most 2x just cant get the range. I think ekar is the closest to what ive set up but its mech only and I love batteries.
Wait...chain stretch effects shifting? Do you mean cable stretch?
GRX is my choice. FWIW the XT RD-M8050 and GRX RD-817 are interchangeable Di2 r-ders. The XT version can be found for much less $$$.
0:55 1X gravel group looks good till your battery dies?, and the Ekar doesn't have a battery anyway.
what does "gravel beef" mean? thanks, ciao.
If you live in a relatively flat area and your top-end speed isn't your highest priority, would you say a 1-by setup gets the job done? I'm considering switching to a gravel bike from my road bike and usually, they only come with 1-by configurations... If that is the case I would happy just buy two pair of wheels (road and gravel) stick with 1by SRAM.
Yes, absolutely. Most gravel 1x bikes come with a 40t ring and a cassette that covers the bulk of normal riding.
At 10:14 you refer to "chain" stretch when you mean "cable" stretch, the topic being shifting maintenance. Otherwise good job!
Ah, right.. duh! Thanks for the correction. 👍
I have Shimano on road bike and SRAM on mtb and gravel. My only real complaint with SRAM is quality of brakes. I have to bleed those things all the time. I don't think SRAM knows how to make a proper master cylinder. I have had both systems replaced under recalls and they still suck...
Gah! That's frustrating.
What is the junction box (minute 7:25) on the rear seat stay of the GRX bike?
D-Fly - which is what lets your shifters talk to a Garmin. The new Shimano 12spd groups have this built in, but initially they did not. So that's what this little thing does.
What's the best cheap 1by crankset tho?
Still using my canti/v brake CX/ general outdoor use bike with 2x10 sram force with gx rd. Have to get new wheels now due to worn out brake tracks. For a new bike split between grx 810 2x mechanical or grx di2.
Hey Ben, love your video but I'm going to have to point out one error. Campy is not the only 13 speed groupset, Rotor produce a 13 speed hydro groupset also (I have it on my Gravel bike), it's not for everyone but it's covered many thousands of KM's without any issues.
Yes! Thank you for the correction! Also good to hear of your experience.
Is there a difference between GRX cable and Di2 hood and brake ergonomics?
Di2 has slighter longer hoods, and a different shape of the tops. I like the Di2 version more.
Why aren’t any other groups from other manufacturers checked out
What hub options are there for the Campagnolo cassette?
Good question! I don't know the full list of 13spd-compatible wheels, but Fulcrum, 3T and Roval work, and of course Campy. I tested the Campy Levante wheels, which are gorgeous. The unpierced carbon inner rim means no need for rim tape.
Why not review microshift sword? Not everything expensive is necessarily good quality.
I do need to do that. Thanks.
Ok. Let me put it like this. If the bike you want costs 2.500€ with GRX600, 3.300€ with GRX800 and closer to 4.000 with other groupsets? Everything else is the same. I’m thinking going with the GRX600 + a nice carbon wheelset upgrade…
Cable gears for challenging conditions or where batteries might becomes an issue ?
Or just because you are cheap !
Can you use a usb power-pack with the shimano (or any of them ) ?
Nope. You need to use each brand's battery.
None. What I ride is a SRAM Rival AXS / GX Eagle AXS mix. More range and significantly cheaper.
"I love the braying on Campagnolo"?
some suspension for gravel or no?
For me? No. Unless you count a good, long carbon post with some built-in flex.
Edgar I like the shift more
Good review. Music too loud.
Good feedback. Thank you!
GRX 810 mechanical 2x for me.
XT 1x DI2 on the EMTB and GRX 2x DI2 on the Gravelbike. Not going back.
Long distance sram axs is the best, we can simple swab with backup battery .
Campa Ekar! What else..?
I have ridden around the world and entered many races along the way. Nothing beats mechanical simplicity and reliability. Batteries are fragile and a pain in the ass to charge.
T-shirt game maybe untouchable at this point.
Campa is the best 🎉
Are ya shure about the Shram? 😜
The age old question...sh..ty Shimano, crappy Campy, same for SRAM ??? No seriously, i have GRX as well as the SRAM XPLR AXS bikes, and luv them both but for differing reasons...GRX for no-brainer simplicity, and SRAM XPLR AXS for its SOTA options, like running the RockShox Reverb AXS dropper post...best of both worlds...old school or avant-garde...another age old question...LOL...