Beating The Dead CV Horse One Last Time & WHY ARE YOU STILL A CC???
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- Опубликовано: 7 мар 2021
- My final thoughts on CV and also answering the question about why I'm still a CC
Tedster's thread: forum.worldofwarships.com/top...
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Игры
i.redd.it/jiuhfwsb19s31.jpg
don't worry Ichase, you're probably going to get on the chopping block after WG finds about five spreadsheet's that says you are bad da
dah comrade
forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/49752-a-not-so-brief-history-of-wows-picture-heavy/
I have been summoned
@@Tedster59 you may go back to rest sir ded game still ded due to balans
talking about CV's in any relation to WoWs feels like bringing up politics at Thanksgiving. I feel your pain.
Just wait till WG releases Soviet CVs. Their planes can move in 5 dimensions.
No need. They will just give the soviet CVs some SU-35 for the tier 4.
@@ibnu9969 SU-35 on Tier 4 would leave enough potential for higher tiers having multi-dimensional space ships
Don't forget forcefields and cloaking devices
Considering the fact that they took my ideas for Soviet CVs (rocket planes with lots of rockets, wide spread, slow rocket speed; level bombers with a few big bombs, and torpedo bombers with lots of smaller torpedoes) and applied them to FDR, in the most extreme way possible...
...then deleted my thread of Russian CV proposal...
I would expect Russian CVs to be like the FDR.
@@dclark142002 kek
Wargaming has NEVER put any investment into brand trust. From my perspective, they actively try to degrade brand trust.
Every single time that WG makes a misstep, I wonder to myself - what bean counter came up with that idea, and why do they let him?
Until they stop making sufficient profit (as a company they surely have some financial goals over time) they will continue current politics. Because people allow them to, clients are dumber than anyone imagine and let themselves be exploited (and/or do not care at all).
@@sLim88CPC BINGO! Regretfully, switching over to a full on 'exploit the customer mode' generates money without having to care about customer retention. All they need to do is extract MOAR money from individuals who have sunk time into the game, devil may care.
@iChaseGaming I've been playing since launch and have grinded multiple T10 ships. I also happen to be an indie game developer (see BHB: BioHazard Bot on Steam) so I know more about game design than your typical player. And I'm in complete agreement with your assessment on CVs. Their single biggest problem is that the design is inherently unbalanceable, it's binary as you put it. Either the surface ship has good AA, which means the CV player can't do anything. Or surface ship has weak AA and then the CV can wreck them. From a game design standpoint, it's not just bad, it's straight up amateurish.
The other part of the problem, which many people have brought up, is the aspect of the AA gameplay essentially being PvE when it's a PvP situation. In the RTS design, the automatic AA system made sense because the CV player wasn't controlling the planes directly, the planes were AI controlled and the CV player was just giving them commands. Multiple squads might attack the same ship while the CV player's attention might be on the other side of the map. So to balance that out, the RTS AA mechanics were designed around that and kept simple--it was essentially EvE on both sides with some player input.
But now with the new design, they've kept the old EvE AA design while the gameplay itself has been switched to PvP, resulting in a PvE AA mechanic. That's why it's so broken and always will be without a major redesign. It's not the stats that are imbalanced, it's the design itself.
Starcraft 2 had a similar problem with the Zerg for a long time. For example, Terran and Protoss both had long range artillery units (siege tank and colossus) while Zerg had no equivalent (lurker had been removed). But the win rates remained equal because the matchmaking system would compensate for it by matching against less skilled players and other factors. So on paper everything was fine, but in reality it was much harder to play Zerg and the game hasn't had the same longevity as the original, which is a master class in good game design.
*As it stands with World of Warships, there's exactly two ways WG can fix CVs. They can change the AA mechanics to be PvP, or they can change the CV mechanics so the AA is EvE again.*
Right now, airplane squads are essentially a player-controlled flying boat, so they should be treated as such (PvP). When you play BB, if you're fighting one ship and then a DD decloaks nearby, the player has to make a choice on which to attack. Airplane squads should be no different. Surface ship should have a manually controlled AA weapon they can switch to, same way you switch to torpedos or HE/AP. At the same time, you would have automatic AA secondaries so you still have protection when you're focused on another ship.
Under this design, balancing AA becomes extremely easy. A DD might have weak AA secondaries but strong manual AA guns, making DDs vulnerable to CVs but still able to fight back if the player is skilled. On the other hand, a BB might have strong secondaries but weak manuals. In this way, a skilled surface ship with bad AA can still fight back, and a skilled CV can still take on a surface ship with good AA.
This solves the AA problem and makes things more enjoyable, however some problems remain. One of the issues with current CV design is how different CV gameplay is from everything else, feels like a minigame and...just isn't very fun. Additionally, CVs have limited team utility--they take away the scout + harass role from DDs, while contributing less to the team since they can't play objectives.
*So the second (superior) possibility is to change CV gameplay so the AA is EvE.* Essentially, put the emphasis back on controlling the CV itself rather than piloting the planes, this is a ship game after all. If the BB is the tank class, and the DD is the scout class, and the CA/CL is the soldier/knight class, then make the CV the mage/ranged spellcaster class. Instead of casting spells, it casts airplanes. Instead of a magic bar, you have a plane bar. AA can remain as it currently is and can be decided by RNG with some player input. Player focus would be on managing the CV and deciding who to cast "spells" on and which rather than micromanaging planes. Gameplay would be similar to what WG showed for the BB anti-submarine gameplay--see Aerroon's video where the Fuso calls in depth charge planes as an ability.
This approach gives CVs more utility while avoiding the current problems. For example, instead of the CV keeping a DD perma-spotted, the CV might only be able to deploy a scout plane that patrols an area at the cost of 1-2 planes. A torpedo squad attack might use up 5 planes. Use the fighter squad "spell" on a friendly ship to defend it. Now WG would be able to add more versatility to the CV. How about a plane that drops fire retardant on friendly ships to put out fires? Or a squad of planes that can water-land on an objective. When dealing with submarines, use squad that drops depth charges. And so on.
This approach also opens up more possibilities for upgrades and customization. Different plane types might have different ranges. Higher tier CV planes might have better "accuracy" and a larger airplane bar, some nations might have access to unique airplane types, and so on.
Additionally, this gameplay can be repurposed for the hybrid carrier ships like IJN Ise. Even regular ships could use a similar approach with their airplane launchers, making surface ship gameplay more interesting too.
Anyway that's my take on how to fix CVs, thanks for reading.
Looks like a perfectly simple fix that leaves little work to rebalance other classes. Just a pity it's unlikely WG will ever read this, as it does not effect their income stream and creates additional long-term advantages in improving gameplay and engagement in the CV class. Therefore more players playing the class and less people leaving the game and taking their premium revenue with them.
How about - could a bunch of indie devs create a competitor to wows?
Please throw a reminder into this comment section if you ever decide to make a naval WWII era game. I was a carrier main in RTS and would love to play your incarnation of the CV.
Finally, a comment from a developers viewpoint. I would like to add that the CVs other job is to take out the enemy CV at any opportunity that shows itself, like it how it was historical. The RTS CVs were good at this, but now, it is very frustrating. But, I enjoyed reading your comment.
Wow blew my mind what you said dude would love to play your ww2 game the old RTS was more interactive, you could fight back in AA CA with dfaa if used at right time would blow planes outta sky and it looked awsome, used to love watching dogfights and helping AA to dogfights miss those days
I cant play cvs anymore, i cant stop thinking about rts cv
Same bro. At least back you were playing the op class that needed a bit of critical thinking
@@matthewkendall1536 yes, and it was fun to fight other cvs with the fighters and multi-task with torpedo bombers and dive bombers
@@hpep9159 damn I miss fighter play
Yeah
@@casualscumscum9065 yes, then they have to do the stupid fighter consumable that i still cant use
I'm a former Slot Machine Tech here in the US. If over the last 3-4 years you've thought WG's games have started looking and acting more like a casino in LV, you wouldn't be wrong.
Ouch
psst don´t tell the whales...
How right you are.
Yeah the dynamic of WoWs has changed since 2015. I remember the early days of only 2 ship lines. The powerful Yammy and the sense of community contribution by CCs. Oh how far we've gone.
ya, those were more simpler times
peak wows was when that community contributor summit where almost all of em where in russian. there was strong sense of community then
Tell me about it
I enjoyed the game a ton until the British BBs came out. At that point they seemed to be compelled to screw badly with the advantages of ships to offset their weaknesses. Changing the ships was easier to them than compelling the player to change their strategy. Now it's a mess and no one is happy.
iChase be laughing to hide his pain pepehands
This is the way
@@ichasegaming This is the way
@@ichasegaming the way this is
@@ichasegaming This is the way
@@ichasegaming This is not the way
It's strange that old CV games are way less infuriating even if the fact is still surface ship gets nuked.
When I think more, I realized that it's the last half year of RTS CV patch that was actually "not bad" because there is a reasonable chance that surface player could de-plane the CV hard enough to really hamper them enough for late game to be "interesting".
Like the Old Kaga, she may have the power to nuke anything early but if the player screw up it may not even have a full strike on helpless DD late game.
Now those planes would just keep coming no matter how many you shoot down, also back those days GOOD CV players could even crack the hardest AA ships using cross dropping and baiting, now it's just a straight line right through the flak and boom
they only needed to reduce RTS CV damage/hit and drastically nerf their plane spotting range and it would have solved a lot of problems back then. With damage reduced, RTS CVs were balance with their limited amount of planes. These devs are incapable of balancing the CVs because they don't play them. The CV mains like me back then knows what's wrong and how to fix it but they didn't listen.
Well Many new CV players nowadays already whine the damage too low and the AA is "too harsh" for them ....
@@imamage over the years they made WOWS noob friendly and strayed away from any form of competitiveness hence WOWS have attracted more and more casual players, so that's understandable. WOWS can't go back now and can only go the casual route, noob game for noobies. all the competitive players have long since forgotten about this game.
tfw i used to play IJN CVs because oxygen torpedoes...and they didn't feel unbalanced.
sure, you can take out 1-2 people with focused cross-dropping, but after that you were pretty much useless because your planes got AA-ed to shreds.
You either saved planes for the long game, or just went all-in and push for an early advantage. :|
Awesome, real take. It's sad the direction their going, but it's what makes them money, right?
nope, not giving them money since puerto rico
Listen to feed back?
I brought that up on the last steam on twitch and Maredraco told me to shut my mouth and brought a major attitude.
Today, 4:17:57 PM
CMMaredraco: Hey I
kaiserwilhelmshatner: Hi
CMMaredraco: Going to ask you to cool it in chat
CMMaredraco: the harassment is not welcome
kaiserwilhelmshatner: What harassment?
CMMaredraco: Atacking us saying we are ignoring and such
kaiserwilhelmshatner: so no truth?
CMMaredraco: YYou wantr to play that game with me?
kaiserwilhelmshatner: There was tons of negative feedback with both issues. None of it ever seemed to be acknowleged
CMMaredraco: We are reading it, we are not able to answer to every singular question/feedback
kaiserwilhelmshatner: It doesnt ever feel that WG even acknowledges the feedback and it just gets ignored or brushed off
kaiserwilhelmshatner: There does seem to be a lack of communication between players and WG
CMMaredraco: Do you know what is the definition of feedback?
kaiserwilhelmshatner: Yes and people and myself do give it
CMMaredraco: Good
CMMaredraco: So you know what you say is not required to be implemented
CMMaredraco: it is a Feedback
kaiserwilhelmshatner: So brushed off
CMMaredraco: So if you dont get what you want. It is because it was only your feedback
CMMaredraco: If you believe you know better than the devs feel free to apply for a position or make your own game, but if you are going to play in OUR game and participate in OUR platforms you will follow OUR rules and the harassment will stop
kaiserwilhelmshatner: That is the attitude WG is known for.
CMMaredraco: Do you have any other questions?
kaiserwilhelmshatner: Would you mind if I copy this conversation to the support team?
CMMaredraco: Sure
CMMaredraco: Please make sure you send it to Kalvoth as well he is my manager
kaiserwilhelmshatner: Didnt want to blind side you.
CMMaredraco: No worries I will let him know already to wait for your feedback
Today, 4:17:57 PM
kaiserwilhelmshatner: Is it ok if it also goes on Gab and MeWe?
CMMaredraco: I don`t know what does are so I am going to say I rather not going to provide permission.
CMMaredraco: Please make sure you only talk to me if you have a question based on our game or platforms
fucking YIKES
Game is just a mess. Im leader of one of eu´s top clans. When you try to talk to someone from wg they just ignore your feedback. Cus clearly the top dogs of the game have no clue what they are talking about. Been slowly moving away from game. If it was not for clan i prob amready did uninstall
@@kaiserwilhelmshatner3156 Still, attacking individual workers is not cool my dude. I don't care if you are upset at the game, but calling the guy who has no input on this issue an "ignorant" and such, is not a good thing to do. You are entitled to your money, not to attacking employees.
I actually thought you'd quit the CC Program after you own bumping of heads with WG a few years ago, fair play for the honesty.
The Commander Skills rework has pushed me off the game a bit more. I do still play and it is still fun to play at times, even when a game is lost so I can't see me fully quitting, I've just tightened my wallet and am rediscovering other games I really enjoy.
You are 100% right in what you've said numerous times now; if someone finds themselves in a literal rage while playing, they are NOT having fun, so it's time for a break. My clan went and did a couple of scenarios after Clan Battles last week and it was hella fun, we all really enjoyed it, one guy got a couple of 5-Stars for the first time as well and we shut down the game in good moods, which is what any game should do.
They booted me from the old program, I stayed out of any CC related things for almost a full year, before they invited me back into a new CC program that was supposedly better. It was for a bit and then it started going downhill. These days I stick around to farm stuff to give away lol
I don't even know what to do with the skills re-work. When the previous ones went live, there was a furor about this or that "It won't work," etc. But things evened out. If a skill or build wasn't useful, you'd just adopt something new and work with it. In each of the skill reworks, they also increased the skill point cap - which was nice, but as we've seen, those last two points are going to be a grindy bitch to reach, and even then - how would we use them effectively with the skills the way they are now? I won't harp on it too much - just a WTH kind of thing.
Best thing that could happen is exactly what iChase said: a direct competition. From developers who care about their players and their game. And no, no Gaijin, they are on the same level as WG.
Wish i could get that game back when i rushed home from work to play a few rounds with Omaha, just to get closer to that awesome Cleveland i was told of.......
I also remember back when Grosser Kurfurst was a beast! Still kind of is, but not as much as it used to.
Gaijin is 100% better than wargaming, and they are really developing naval we will see tho
As soon as my Texas went from a ship that could defend itself from a strike while still taking some damage to a vessel that couldn't weaken, much less STOP a carrier strike, WoWs became a game that I no longer had ANY desire to play. So there will no longer be ANY money coming out of MY pockets.
Yeah I got the Texas after the AA and Nerf and she's nothing special.
Still a good ship, but not much better than the New York.
It's how I felt about my AA spec Atlanta cause I actually managed to deplane CVs back then....
Texas used to pwn carriers. If I was getting bullied at that tier, I'd pull my Texas on, throw some signals on and go hunting for some planes. There's no credible reason why its effectiveness had to be dialed back so far. But, I also hasten to add - since the re-work, they've also removed half of the carrier threats as well, and haven't inserted them into the game again.
@@BladeKi11a Atlanta is so easy prey for CVs now. Literally unless T8 Cv player is absolute hot garbage - Atlanta got 0 % chance of survival against CV that wants it ass. And thats what happens since Atlantas have to push due to short range and to use radar to hunt down DDs.
@@Mario-kf3ej and because Atlanta’s and Flint’s have armor made of politicians promises.
The CV issue would be addressed with larger maps. That way carriers can be lethal while not regenerating and coming right back on top of the same players ship. It would also make fleet tactics more than a 1 minute cascade of decisions at the start of a game.
Larger maps would also slow down the game for everybody else as ships still move at significantly slower speeds and that would mean entire games where only a few ships are actually able to engage/sink anything.
@@ichasegaming I'd like more maps. Honestly CVs aren't an issue for me. Every battle I check and see if CVs are part of it, if they are, I change my strategy. If not, I may venture on a flank more solo depending on DDs I might be facing. Always changing and adapting my strategy depending on circumstances, and that is what's wrong with players. All they do is gripe and moan when they do the same crap over and over and not adapt. I almost never hear people figure this out.
What IS a problem, in my opinion is being screwed repeatedly 8 of 10 volleys where my aim is dead on and most shells miss a ship at 7km and even less. Or dumping 100 HE rounds on ships in my Zao fully set for fires and only getting 1, while a DD with 4% burns me down. RNJeezuz is my nemesis.
The old RTS system have a time penalty to returning planes now can recall and no countdown timer. Auto armed planes now cause CV all metal no wood anywere so fire last 5 seconds, the timers made it balanced, meaning you couldn't launch multiple squadrons of same type now send another recall and there auto armed no reload times now such bs they even removed the can't launch while on 🔥 gimmick which made planes unlaunchable but worst was giving planes a heal is why you won't shoot down a full squadron
haven't spent a cent since Puerto Rico
Me either. That's the best way to get Wargamming's attention.
Neither have I. I actually uninstalled at the day of Puerto Rico dumpster fire. Got back half a year ago and did not feel an ounce of nostalgia. So I thought I'd wait for the fixes needed back then... welp. And here I am.
I have never spent a cent on anything produced by Wargaming. I've been a 100% free player. I stopped playing Tanks when the XVM culture annoyed me too much. And I stopped playing Ships when Dead Eye was introduced as the final straw on top of too much pay to win, stupid CV mechanics and a lack of new maps being introduced.
It's a shame because fundamentally I like the game and used to spend tons of real money on it.
But, not any more.
same, just like WoT. completely gone to shit
Me too....After Italian cruiser lines, i stopped.
i miss my rts shokaku , something about zeros vals and kates attacking a Lexington made me feel nostalgic
or the twin Kaga fiasco
The one thing i don't miss is getting nuked right at the start of the match cus that enemy cv didn't want to play.
@@jaywerner8415 Remember there was a meta that the only viable option to play CV is to kill the enemy CV first, I might be crazy but I really thought that was intense and kind of fun..?
@@27648281 I guess so, still being on the receiving end feels like bullshit when you just never expect it. like if you send your bombers out without fighters near by they die, and if you send your fighters out to defend you end of dead, still i admit it was a viable strat, if a cheep one.
Perfect State of the (dis)Union ANALysis, iChase!
I’ve played wows since Beta. You’re dissertations on the (de)evolution of the game is perfect.
Thank you. You said a lot that needed to be said.
Fun can't be measured in a spreadsheet.
This is factual.
Doesnt mean you are a majority tho
Your money can, though! - Richie Rich, probably
Love your honesty. Good call.
All I will say is, open your eyes and see this game for what it truly has become...
wows desperately needs a competent competitor game
It's like when the parents ask the kid why he went into the van with the complete stranger.
-But he gave me candy..
🤔
"go play some botes, blow up some stuff"
-iChaseGaming 03/09/2021
Hah. There's no salt to be had in co-op. Sure, sometimes you get potato players, but if you can't carry co-op, you're probably not going to carry anywhere else.
I’ve played WoWS since the CBT, couldn’t get into Europe’s so I ended up with an NA account from the UK, man the game had so much promise, and now I barely even play the game anymore, I don’t quite understand how over time while gameplay declines the overall player base has risen, I guess many people don’t know the time when the game was more fun, and showed so much more potential, the community was listened to and that made me eagerly anticipate each patch release, now it’s just “what are they gonna add for a cash grab this time?”
Playing against invisible firing OP pay to win Gremyaschies was never fun. Being cross dropped by RTS CV's in a grid pattern of torpedo death was never fun.
In the early days there were some serious flaws in the game. What's disappointing as that although some of them have been fixed, other flaws haven't and some new flaws have been introduced.
@@lint8391 Invisible firing WAS fixed. Cross dropping actually took some skill and u could counter it (59% rts midway talking). The point is that the issues were addressed. Sometimes not enough or incorrectly. But at least they tried.
Good stuff, i think this is the only take from a content creator about CVs i agree with. Not about saying “F*** CV” or “unavoidable flak” but rather just “is it fun?”
So...will the CCs ever apologize to those of us who pointed this out in the last few years and were shouted down?
Because you have FINALLY reached the understanding I, and others, reached 2 years ago...
It was good to hear some real talk about how things are with this game right now. I'm glad you decided to make this video. It's a damn shame WoWs has gone the way it did, the closed beta feels like a different game from a lifetime ago. I had very high hopes back then, talked more than a few friends into getting into the game; not so much anymore :(
The best way to go about this is for someone just to organize a boycott of not buying anything for a month or 2 and see what happens
and we all know how well boycotts from gamers went in the past
Not gonna work.
Well, you won't see a CC doing that organizing. But, it's a fact, your wallet does talk.
Hi Chase, Nothing like telling it has it is. way to go. keep up the good work. I was going on the PT testing up to 9.1 and then I could no longer get on the test server have tried various things but no joy . Maybe I did not give enough feed back. I am not the best player with sub 50% stats but i do enjoy the game.
I’ll miss you friend lol good luck at the Gulag
I can't point to one specific thing, but WeeGee's actions made me quit the game in mid 2019. All I will say is that there is only one way to win at WoWs, everybody, and it is to fucking leave. Leave whatever money you had down at the table and walk away; uninstall it, find another game made by another developer. I'd played the game since CBT, and I cannot stress how much leaving WeeGee behind has improved how I feel towards gaming as a whole. They will only give as much as it takes to keep your money on the line and no farther. That is not enough to fix the balance, and it's not enough for them to actually give a fuck about the state of the game. The big consequence behind that decision is the game will continue to decrease in quality and in fun. Jump ship, my friends. Jump ship.
the song Leave Her Johnny goes well with your comment.
am thinking about doing that too. Playing Conquerors blade and loving it.
in the description on weapons its says that it is only visual doesn't affect the stats lol crazy what being honest with the player base does to the player!!! 🤗🙈🙉🙊
That's what I did and now I'm a slave to Mihoyo lmao
Or sell your account like I did made a nasty profit on it too.🤣
its a shame war thunder boats is so, well, shit. cause as you said, if it was actually fun weegee might have an incentive to make their game better
WT is better in many ways but sucks at Economy part like really badly plus no Rank mode or Competitive mode specially in SB dont help
@@Subha95
WT is:. Spawn. Dead. Everybody spawns in gun range.
And the latest ship is ALWAYS OP.
@@rzu1474 Well the reason the lastest ships like Hyuuga and Kaiser are always OP is that they are expanding the tech tree. It's like if there were only T1 to T6 in wows and then they indroduce T7 and people would complain that those new ships are better than the old ones...
@@zweipsneyba
And are they not pushing exactly that to encourage people to fucking buy them??
If they didn't want to, they wouldn't add them one by fucking one.
@@rzu1474 To be honest in most battles I play you can see the difference between people who just bought their way to the BBs and the players who grinded by playing. They have no idea how to aim and they are getting killed by random torps and FritzXs left and right. Just like in wows people who buy their way through are not interested in actually learning the game. And as long as they do that and act as cannon fodder, I find this a better system than taking an existing top-tier ship, copy it, give it a white and blue glowing camo-scheme and then sell it for 115 bucks.
You are right, WT is also heavily trying to get money but they are not as brazen as WG is right now
That's pretty soul crushing commentary. I watched LWM go through personal health issues while she tried to do her best for the players. Flamu said, "Good riddance." I can't see hanging around for bennies when the only good you're doing is handing out codes, and otherwise just shilling I remember you praying and hoping for immersive anti-aircraft ala Midway. I remember Captain's academy, describing how the mechanics work, and how to play. I remember pre 0.8.0 hammer and anvil tactics which put all current carrier play to shame. Discussing new changes to captains' skills (those are always fun to reset). There were a lot of threads about various things on the forum that I immediately tagged you in my mind, "What does Chase think about this." Like you say, those days are gone - after the developers created the game, it's up to the executives to monetize it effectively.
Well done! :-)
I dont know what they're statistics say buy it probably doesn't include how a lot of people, including myself, stopped playing because of CVs
Just a video series suggestion:
I'm new to WOWS and I found this channel about a week ago, and I think a pretty good series would be for people who aren't really the best to send in some replays and you could review them and give some tips on what to do in that scenario and how you would have played it instead, like if you should have switched to AP, or to place yourself in a better position, etc. Idk if it is just me who thinks this is a good idea, but it would help to see what things work in what situations with replays...
we should get an option at every ship class, if we want to control things, and switch it auto, if we no longer want to use it manually like aa, placing anchors to prevent torpedos from hitting you, making the game 3d for cvs etc.
I agree and appreciate your perspective. It may be another year or two before I uninstall WoWs (depends on when submarines come out and how broken they are) but I'm headed that way.
I really liked this game back in 2017...
Any chance of you coming back to navyfield? I want to start an English fleet for HA and I almost want to start a RUclips in hopes of creating a community lol
I understand a need to make money on their product. I understand their need to continuously change the game. However, these needs cannot overshadow my need to have fun with their game. I used to have great fun with it since beta stages and I have continuously supported them with my own money as I went along playing Warships. Their CV changes have been strong enough that I, a destroyer main, have felt anger and disbelief on how much my survival and usefulness have been compromised. With ~5000 battles under my belt, 56% average, countless tier 10s in my port and hundreds of dollars spent on the game I decided this farce is past my comfort zone and with heavy heart I decided to stop giving them money and soon later stopped playing their game. I do care what happens to Warships, but I don't want to encourage whatever Wargaming is doing to this game.
Imagine having CVs in the game while being fun for everybody. Good luck with that.
When you even get the Canadians dropping a BS on you...
It is this business ethic of absolute predatory marketing that is diametrically opposed to a human moral standpoint in business that will sink Wg eventually. They excel at evolving a game design that becomes rather toxic in every way. They can't spin fast enough. Wargaming is an F grade in customer service and game design, but they do get an A in predatory psy-ops marketing.
I only play for fun now and will spend zero money on this game until they decide superior game engineering is better for long term profits that only increase over time. Quality game over quantity cash in pocket scheming is the sensible long term view.
You can look straight at Tanks when you say that, too. On the FB page, they bring their toxicity out of the game and parade it around for others to see. Everything from game mechanics to gold munitions (thank God Ships doesn't have that), to potato quality players who don't play the mission and make a hash of things even at high tiers. I wish they put more effort into keeping their player base happy. They could roll in even more money than they do now.
problem with new players(new CCs) vs old players(old CCs) is old players came here for something they felt attracted to, newer players come, take a bite and then they either like it or they mostly don't(cause they get dunked on by the knowledge u need to understand this game to play it so that u get rewarded in return)... that's how i see it..
Here's the deal: WarGaming's end goal is for this free to play game to make profit. As long as they're still making bank, they don't care. The CV rework wasn't to make them balanced with the rest of the classes, it was to give them another class that they could develop additional ship lines for and economically viable premium ships. Therefore popularity over balance was paramount.
I quit the game last year, I still watch Jingles, iChase etc.'s content to check in for new developments, but that's about it. WarGaming isn't going to fix the game until they think their profits are under threat, until then they aren't going to get another penny from me.
except they end up removing all the odd tier carriers now they have fewer ships each tree
WG selling early access ships eliminate to low tier game play, everyone or at least majority starts higher tiers so the balance problems are not so big issue in low tier, like where a tier IV ship without AA encounters a tier VI aircraft carrier
If you want the game fun for everyone - simple: Skills/Wins based matchmaker. That solves all problems in the game including carriers. Because the only issue with carriers is that it is WAY too powerful, but noobs facing noob CVs is fine, average players facing average CVs is fine, and Pro's (who know how to handle pro CV play) facing pro CVs is fine.
Unfortunately, no. The problem is that procv and even average cv is not fine...
I have one and only one complaint about CVs, as a surface ship player -
Shells take on average 10 seconds before they hit me. I can dodge those. Torpedoes take on average half a minute before they hit me. I can dodge those too.
ROCKETS AND BOMBS TAKE 2 SECONDS BEFORE THEY HIT ME. I CAN DO JACK SHIT.
when a CV plane swoops down it take a while for their planes to arm, you and maneuver to lesson and even avoid the hit, you're just bad
@@Zenkai76 lol and the CV plans his attack run so you give him a great bomb run or his team your broadside. heads your fucked, tails your smashed. gtfo with that bullshit when AA is a joke
@@redfro4992 clearly you suck at this game if you think this is your only choice
@@Zenkai76 says the guy who defends the bullshit that are CV mechanics in this game. At least RTS CV you had to have skill to play well
@@redfro4992 if CV doesn't take skill then why is there's so many CV Taylor 10 players that only average 40K while others are averaging over 100k and more wins? You start seeing a lot less CV games at tier eight and tier 10 because it actually takes skill to play those levels. tier four takes a lot less skill but to be fair most ships take a lot less skill at that level. Playing a CV is very stressful there is a lot that depends on you, which is why I enjoy playing a destroyer more, and I don't care if I play against CVS I just play differently than I'm playing without CVs. people act like CVS are this big untouchable powerful thing which is BS if that was true everybody would be playing them.
Just make it so that CV’s can’t perma spot a ship and a lot of players would be happy, and also stop releasing broken CV’s like FDR
I have two potential answers, one would be weather as in cloud cover, which would make it harder for you to spot them (oh and actually have your spotter planes run a patrol course) but make it harder for them to consistently spot you. Second, an actual proper defensive CAP.
funny enough ya got to love how one of the side effects of the "interceptor" skill for your fighters is they cant spot ships anymore.
@@jaywerner8415 funny enough that skill is ass backwards. It should be that you need a skill to spot ships 😂
Spotting has already been dialed back unrealistically for planes, and when they overfly a destroyer, they have to guestimate where the bote will be back, or have dropped their fighter escort to keep it lit. I think if the plane's viewing distance, and my AA were the same, I wouldn't care. Dakka dakka.
@@cavscout1739 Well WoWS has never really been realistic now has it. Still the fact that planes can spot you without getting shot at in return is understandably frustrating.
Conversely AA is all over the place when it comes to murdering planes, it ether is too little outside of Flak clouds to have much of an impact (unless your playing Japanese or German cvs due to there lack of plane hp, but hay they got SPEED) or a literal blender of plane shredding.
How DDs shred planes faster then battleships or cruisers, some of which where DESIGNED as AA cruisers (the Wooster for example) is a testament to game balance failure.
So how do carriers work now? I remember back in the day they used to play like an RTS with commanding multiple squads and if you weren't careful you would run out of airplanes. But the video seems to be way different.
I'm getting flash backs to Thomas and Friends when it was going on the decline (after the Miller era and such, I'm having a hard time pinning down start and end points, it was on the decline twice) during seasons 20-24. We thought it couldn't get any worse. And then the trailer for season 25 came out. I feel that the game might be about to go of the deep end in a similar manner.
Wait I'm new here, didn't chase lose his CC status after the Graf Zeppelin video?
Has Jingles been on holiday recently? I ask because his nose seems to be a lot browner than it used to be.
Hey iChaseGaming,
do you need a good replay from Big Hunt ?
2 036 654 dmg, 20 zita, 176 torpedos hits, 51 spotted, 25 kills, 360 secondary hits.
If anyone wants i can send you the file.
Have a nice day
What do you think about regularly playing and creating content on WT naval realistic battles? You can start from the destroyers now. I might sub if you start covering WT naval. A YT channel called Flipped StuG has some good tutorials if you need help.
Flamnass bought all of the bundles for 75,000 dubloons, as it stood he already blew $300 worth before getting the tech tree ship early. the entire time cackling about how insane anyone would have to be to blow money like that. Watching him drop this gneisenau reminds me of mine before the rework, it had 96 aa rating and a 7.6 range on the aa guns, melted planes like gnats in a flame thrower.
No gneisanau never had 96 rating it's 65 ish (yes old RTS CV days) 96 is t10 heavy cruiser AA rating
Pretty easy solution, give back the 30% boost for focusing on the AA on the planes, make it only clickable in the AA bubble of the ship, and have the planes deselect after they leave it. Punishes carriers that just hover and drop 1 ship until it dies aka what FEELS like surface ship bullying, makes surface ships FEEL like they are actively doing something to counter the planes, and the claim at the time why it was removed if I remember right was not enough use of the mechanic (probably the whole simplicity goal really but they HAVE kept the Secondaries Focusing), so the CV's shouldn't FEEL like they have NO targets, just that "well this guy is a bad target". When people feel they actually have a viable counter, then a lot of the complaining about balance suddenly becomes "git gud". As of now though I've had people in game complaining first about not having dedicated spotting from the one CV to very quickly just that CV's even EXIST period. CV's basically at this point are just lightning rods of hate again getting reported for existing again, and their only defence is to basically perfectly do everything to the loudest persons satisfaction so they don't try to start a riot against them.
Easy fix , make the planes not detect ships , so you need your team to scout for you , not the other way around. Because the biggest issue is how a good cv can scout half a team all the time.
Wows feels a lot like standing in a burning building but it never actually burns down. For all its shortcomings I love it.
This is fine.
9:15 how prophetic
I want the old carrier system back but with the player deciding what planes he will pack in. Then i can go full fighter loadout again and piss of the enemy cv...
hey when you gonne talk about the new line dutch cruisers i think the are realy good!
and they wonder why so many of us dont play much or at all anymore, i've seen alot of those people and myself have become one, i love this game alot, too bad management doesnt know what to do with it
The go for the numbers. Why make 1 class happy at the expense of 3 others? Three others that existed before the CV was even added to the game. They have made CV's invincible to make sure that they're played. They nerfed every ship in the game to make CVs tougher. They do more damage. They survive far more. They attack with no risk of causing damage to themselves. The can no longer be deplaned, sunk by another CV, Burned, Flooded, planes launch slowed down by being on fire, added Rocket planes and on top of that made 99% of AA useless for defense and made every ship that was sold as "AA cruiser or AA DD or AA Battleship have utterly no AA now. Kidd, Atlanta, Flint, Texas, Fletcher, The Grozovoi, All US BBs and almost all US cruisers....all stripped of AA plus many many others. The CV rework substantially ruined the fun of this game.
You know, alright I'll admit, I thought you were pro carrier in my last comment, so I'll concede that I misunderstood you. Yeah I'll agree, the carriers should be fun, and they aren't. Theres no counter to them anymore, no risk, and no punishment for misplays. They seem to have an idea that removing punishment for mistakes with CVs will make them fun but the old CVs, using their skill and mind to choose better targets with the real threat that they could lose their planes was fun
There isn't a punishment? lol yeah getting your squad shotdown is a huge punishment. Not to mention how you position, one wrong move and you're toast. I doubt you have played any T 10 CVs against T10 AA
@@Zenkai76 It's not though? Planes regen, just pre-drop a load and learn the flak patterns, EZ. I've scored a Kraken in a Lexington at tier 10. Once I figured out the pattern of AA the game became a damage farm sim. That very same kraken game is the reason I actually quit playing. Taking down a Kremlin in a tier 8 should be a thrilling challenge, not a matter of dropping HE bombs on it until it dies with literally no risk (the poor dumb fuck lined their ship up with an island, AA didn't start to shoot at me until the very last moment and after 2-3 drops most mounts were dead)
@@Zenkai76 no, I havent played T10 CVs because I do not find them fun, but while yes you may lose a squadron the error you made no longer permanently affects you. You will regenerate that squadron infinitely as long as the game continues. Back when they were an RTS losing planes was like losing health that you couldn't get back. And if you recklessly sent squadrons into AA they were gone, permanently. A carrier who unwisely used their planes became less powerful towards the end of a match, but now they become more powerful the later it gets regardless, as damage to enemy ships knocks out AA guns. Sure, if you position your ship wrong you'll be deleted. You and every Destroyer, Crusier, and battleship captain, I dont see why that changes anything really.
@@98765zach planes generate slow, if you lose planes you end up with 0 planes to attack with
@@Zenkai76 you would have to be a vegetable to get to that point...I ha never been in a game where a carrier ran out of planes. Or seen a game on youtube where that happens. I might go try to specifically find one.
Maybe increase flak reload speed so harder to dodge? Currently one ship flak is nothing.
What videos do you hand out the codes on?
I just run giveaways on my Discord server, easier to contact people who win lol
@@ichasegaming okay thanks
CV players are just those kids that got beat up in the third grade and now have found a way to hit back with out getting hurt.
IChase, you are right, I play the game since it was released, I bought some premium ships(the last one I bought was scharnhorst) and premium time in the first 2 - 3 years, then I saw where this was going, it was the money pit, so I stop paying, it's a free to play, so I enjoy the part that is free, I play casual, don't pay anything and I don't care if the game is balanced, and I must confess I'm selfish, I want people to spend the money, that way I can keep playing for free.
Wargamming does not care if the game is fun or not, all Wargamming cares about is if the game is profitable.
Plain and simple!
well
is that only me considering that a profitable game must be fun to play?
@@user-ni8re3gy1s the reason it is a profitable game was that in the past the game was fun and challenging to play. Now it is becoming a frustration game with new patches creating more and more frustration. WG could have monetized Camoes, Captains and in game extras, but chose to monetize power creeped ships. With a lot of them never existing IRL. There was a time ( as a BETA player) when CV's where actually a challenging and fun class to play. There used to be many CV players with YT accounts - now none. The game is been dumbed down. DO not spend money on the game. Every time anybody spends money they are only justifying WG attitude...
@@clubwho I have stopped playing this game for a while
The game experience is just too bad for even spending time on it
I enjoy Conqueror's Blade and I can recommend it. There are many similarities to WoWs.
i was an cv player and play since close beta. now i havent play this game since one year and 2 month. the point i quit on all the point chase bring.
I miss old CV pre rework gameplay style
Why don't they just ad a second random mode one with and one without CV ms?
Because noone would enter the trash cv mode killing the class in an instant
For that mode, I would absolutely load my AA boat, and sail those unfriendly waters. The only thing that pissed me off, pre re-work, was getting the hammer and anvil from torpedo groups. Absolutely the worst thing. Now, with the modified weakness of the planes, and single cockpit playstyle, pretty much any ship with a certain rating in anti-aircraft can negotiate a compromise from the carrier driver.
It would be empty. Just like if they give subs thier own mode. It will be all subs and some DD's.
for every game in a dd where i get some afk map border bb; ill play a round with my cv and farm exactly those kind of players. maybe one day they learn
I still watch your videos but I have quit Wows after Carrier rework. They made perfect game for the time you are on toilet. As multiple times top 16 CV carrier on KoTS, ill just say this: they took chess game because some people were not at it and now my dog can play it.
I stopped playing over 2 CV a side games , the russian power creep was bad enough
During test, you would have probably 2 real surface commanders, and three real carriers on each side. And of course, after three carriers kill a surface ship, all that's left is killing the other carriers. It was an interesting phenomenon, but not one that should have gone live.
Support
The issue is in the early game everyone is alive there is a lot of AA and they are mostly bunched together, if you nerf the planes it will make the CV feel like they are doing nothing other than spotting. In the late game where less people are alive and alone the planes just start destroying everybody and it feel like there is no counter play other than your own CV calling fighters for you. You could argue that the CV player can just play support and utility until the late game but not everyone want to wait for 10mins and furthermore some games are decided before the late game. If you played the new CV you will understand how much your damage starts to ramp up in the late game.
People suggested to have the old plane style where the plane lost can't be recovered but it take skills to preserve your planes so for the unskilled player it will not be very fun which also brings up the problem that WG doesn't want a complex gameplay. I personally prefer the old RTS CV style, controlling multiple squadron, it was fun for me.
So, raid: sl it is?
I want to ask what is a CC?
The shitshow never ends. The only way to end it is to stop playing. That's exactly what I did and I have no regrets at all.
Perhabs you might ask me: "Why are you watching this video then?" I tell you. This is actually the most hilarious thing about the game: people know all the problems WOWS has, but they keep playing. Completely broken balance, WG's attitude, their "free gifts", overpriced pixel shit everywhere, old graphics that doesn't even remotely look good anymore. This is an old fucking game, alright? And it's not gonna improve. But people expect changes. That's what I like to ovserve from aside and gives me great joy.
I think that any change to CVs will only happen after people high up at WG lose their jobs. And at this rate they won't lose their jobs unless people stop spending money on the game, which at this point shows no real signs of slowing down.
I feel like the end of the CC program having any real influence was when WG tried to role out the original NTC concept.
Why don't WG just add a new CV only game-mode that is 4-6 CVs per side, they need work as a team to co-ordinate and pick which targets to strike and from which direction. Maybe have some bot AA ships as escorts which would add some more strategy. This would be a way to keep the few cv players happy for little real effort on the developers part. Then that makes the vast majority that either hate CVs or have no interest in them enjoy the game also. I know it won't happen because WG don't give a shit about the actual state of the game but its something that could work.
how do we burn WG spreadsheets? maybe that will free them from bad ideas
Simply stop spending real money on the game. That will do it!
Just force them to play the crap themselves
Chase just got a little RP aware in gaming and in life
Hi Chase, It's me, future guy! Something happened and now CV's are even more god tier as well as subs being supersonic and almost unsinkable! Fair and Balanced just like fox news!!!!!!!!!!
nice thoughts on WG's bullshitteries! also RIP ur clanmate DD KEKW
Btw, why old video from last year? The squadron aiming interface & CV hull detection UI look very outdated
Replays haven't worked with old clients since 0.9.6? Post update, didn't have higher tier CV gameplay, literally had to go back to like 0.9.5 >_>
Yeah 2015 when you waiting for "new" real game when you can shoot big guns, and you waiting for early access , that a nice time when Fuso can meet Yamato 😎
A play mode where you bring your favorite ship, setup the tiers you want to see, then pull the lever. Oh, no - wait. WG isn't taking comments from players. My bad.
WG could bring fighters back to the CV gameplay, and it could add depth without upsetting the balance between CVs and surface vessels. It would allow some CV players to spam fighters, focus on shutting down the enemy CVs and spot for their team more.
Idk why but his voice remembers me of Uncle dane (which is a compliment from my view)
Carriers and subs don't operate with the fleet. They are strike vessels that are designed for totally different goals to the rest of a navy. That's why they don't and won't work in this game. IRL carriers are their own strike group, the ships with them are to support them in that goal, acting as anti-air and anti-sub pickets. The enemy fleet should never get near, as the carrier should deal with them first, hence a large part of why battleships fell out of use.
Fleet subs don't work either, they get in the way, mis-identify targets, or are killed by their own team as there was no Identify Friend/Foe transponders on subs in the 40's. Their job is to range out away from the fleet and to provide intel and harass enemy merchant ships, targeting warships if an opportunity arose.
The only way to fix their integration in the game is to remove them. It's an 'arcade game' aka cover for sloppy mechanics, if you really want to talk about it, how many strikes can a carrier realistically pull off? Refuelling, rearming, readjusting to a shifting enemy fleet, only a single bomb or torpedo carried on a single plane... and yet we have 1 minute turn around for aircraft, no long wait times like pre-rework. It's a mess. Remove both classes.
WG wants whales and in time that's all they are gonna get... players who haven't spent money yet are very likely to just leave now
I spent money to get a premium trainer, or ships that I really wanted. But, when I see the game is rigged? Nah - I'm not doing that.
WG does not want whales. WG wants short-term players who buy their way up to TX in the shortest time possible, then quite the game. Helps keeping server costs down.
I would love it if WG watched a 12v12 potato fiesta just to see how shit things have become lol
Prior to CV rework I was a whale. I’d spend at least 1000 dollars over the previous three years. Since the rework I think I’ve only spent about 100 dollars in total
Same here
5 years ago I played for 8 hours a day and spent a lot of money on the game. Now I play for maybe 3 hours a week and don't spend any money on it. The game was much better years ago and a lot more fun. I wish WG would open up more servers, some for the old game and others for a full nutz game, that way everyone could be happy.
Yea but the classic server would just murder the shitfest one
Just put historically accurate plane storage so CV players can run out of aircraft.
I think that plane recovery should be a consumable, and you can only recover one type of plane each time you choose it. Furthermore, after using this, the effectiveness of your flight go down, since you have greenhorns in the mix now. Alternately, create a way to nurture your aces so that if they survive the match, they become stronger - this would do away with a captain skill, I think. And bring back fighter escort - not dropping the fighters, but flying into the attack with them, and engaging defending fighters. Wrong game, though.
Let's do it for dds too. Only 1 set of torps
Once ultimate admiral dreadnoughts has a pvp set up, I suspect WG will rapidly make "changes" since many put up with this game due to little naval game alternatives. WT or WoWS yay. Monopoly is balans.
But srsly if you haven't heard of that game yet check it out, it's not on steam. Once you start playing it you'll see how much fun it is.
War on the sea is also fun but it's much more in depth thinking with alot of bugs. But devs take feedback and it's updated frequently.