Sharpening Carbide inserts & Slitting saw on the cutter grinder
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- Опубликовано: 29 июн 2018
- In this video I do some cutter reconditioning. I sharpen a slitting saw and dress some carbide inserts. Im a beginner at the cutter grinder and am working my way through the learning process. Not an easy machine to run at all. Id like to give big thanks to all my subscribers, viewers and patrons . If you would like to help support the channel please consider joining my LINK BELOW pateronwww.patreon.com/bePatron?c=16...
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When I teach people how to sharpen stuff I always say "Study the angles" "study those angles and copy them" It really is just that simple. However, you demonstrate it better than I ever could. Thanks.That spindle guard is AWESOME. I love it when God hands us stuff like that.
Love your approach of lets see how this works out and learning along the way, it's a very useful mindset.
Hi Steve,
Looks like you are having a lot of fun with that cutter grinder. This is a big learning curve and it looks like you are receiving a lot of good pointers from the viewers. Thanks for letting us in on your new journey.
Steve
Solid Rock Machine Shop Inc. Thanks Steve. I appreciate all your hard work. I'm sure your aware the cutter grinder is a complex machine that takes ages to get good on. Especially without a teacher.
Hi Steve,
Yes I know! It is a large learning curve. I have been around them in the pass but never used one myself. That is why watching your journey will be interesting. Looks like you are doing a good job so far.
Steve
Steve talking to Steve....its a Steve-inception BOONNNGGG
Rock Machine Shop Inc.
I am jealous, a tool grinder, and a creek! LOL Nice work on the slitting saw blade, and insert. You are living my dream.
Steve you are absolutely right when you talk about truing being the act of making sure that you were real face is true to your Arbor however you do not want to turn your Arbor off after you choose your wheel because when you turn your wheel back on the torque can slightly move the wheel on the arbor and make your truing useless you always want to True last and don't turn your arm off make sure you're in a position where you can move your work to your wheel without turning the arbor off you may have to move your diamond nib to do so but that is so beneficial to keeping chatter out of your work because your Arbor and your wheel face stay true this is the first time I have posted to your channel but I have been watching it for over two years and have been a long time since scriber I enjoy it very much however I am not able to donate to the channel because I'm not in a position to do so or I would I do have some ideas for you and I may be sending you a package soon did I think you will find interesting
Like your enthusiasm learning to tool grind reminds me of myself when I started in 1981. Was a tool grinder for 31 years am retired now
Nice!
We true cbn and diamond wheels like that at work, just as you did, grinding soft steel. Takes forever, but we run automatic grinders, so you just set them end leave them grinding.
What works a bit faster - A piece of molybdenium - Grind it, relatively agressive, and then use the sharpening stone on the wheel, redress on the molybdenium, and do that as long until youre happy :D
Stefan Gotteswinter Thanks Stefan 👍. The dimond wheel dressing worked very well. I was surprised. Thanks for stopping by Stefan, I appreciate it
MSC sells single point dressers for diamond and cbn wheels. I was skeptical at first but they work pretty well.
I LOVE that spindle guard. That's just the kind of recycling I like to do too.
G Kuljian I think he should leave it chrome!
@@markwatson9816 Me too! I'm from the future so can go check what he decided to do... 🥸
That was a really interesting video. I could watch that all day.
Where you live seems so beautiful Steve. I’d love a property like that where you can escape from everything and relax. You’re a lucky guy Steve. Take care my friend.
Gaz Pyrotechnics Thank you👍 I love my location. Low traffic and not a house in sight. Great to see you.
You were right first time Steve. It's called the gullet lol. I liked the grinding of the carbide insert, that left a pretty good finish even at a 30 thou depth of cut. I'm well impressed !
Very good. If you don't try, you will never know.
You hit upon a very important point. Get to know your machine, listen to it. Sounds can tell you a lot. I know in my case, sub arc welding, the slightest change in sound was everything. That has to hold true on any machine. That says a lot about you and your work ethics. As always, dang good video.
Hi Steve,
I just finished watching the rest of the video. I left off the first watch at the insert grinding. Just saw the shout out you gave us, thanks very much. I use a piece of paper between the indicator tip and the diamond wheel to protect the indicator tip and it works very well. If the Abom79 trip takes place we plan on attending. Sure would be nice meeting you, Brian, Abom79 and others in person.
Steve
I really enjoy watching your videos Steve , the cool thing is I learn something new every time I watch one !! My goal is to one day have a shop and have the old machines and be able to do machining and fabrication professionally, so I’m gonna soak up as much knowledge as I can!!🙂👍
Love the creek love the garden love the dog and love the grinder. Great video Steve. Thanks for the detail.
What a gorgeous view behind your shop. Makes me want to flip a fly in there with my little 5'6" fly rod. Hope all is well Steve. Keep the great videos coming. Thanks again for all you do.
Hi Steve, great video. Very happy to see you getting some great use of the dust collector/vacuum. If you know anyone that is looking for one I have several more I’d sell for a fair price.
Kenny Gee I'll ask around👍. It really is a great system
Well done . Im learning the grinding art right now myself. It looks easier than what it is..
MetalWorks Machine Shop I agree. Detailed information on using the machine is tough to find also
Got my envelope yesterday! Looks awesome on the new lathe, I'll email ya some pics. I love videos like this, you do things like lots of us do it, the best we can with what we have. It's fun watching others do it with thousands and thousands of dollars of tools but sometimes you have to just eyeball it. Keep it up.
Its the leaning of going things, that makes it so much fun, and frustration at the same time. Nice job keep going.
Paul Koomen Thank you Paul. Exciting learning a new machine.
I would love to send you some of my broken milling cutters to try getting into shape. thanks for the great video's and give the dogs a cooky .
Great video Steve thanks
Nice work Steve!
ATB, Robin
That's a beautiful piece of property!
This machine is more versatile than I thought. A guy could make some money with it.
John McDonald Your imagination is the limit. Good to see you John👍
Great video Steve, I enjoyed the discussion very much.Cheers!
Love the bling on the grinder! That was very interesting Steve and I can see how it could save cutters and money, Greg.
Hi Steve.
You are a very creative guy,I love the way you adapt items from your scrap pile,maybe you could do a vid showing us your scrap pile, very interesting.thanks Stan.
Doing a great job Steve 👍
Good learning experience. Nice machine.
Ahh so sweet , Great job Steve .. That grinder is one fine tool ! ENJOYED ..
Very very interesting steve, keep us in the loop.
I've been keeping an eye out for a surface/tool grinder similar to this to add to my little hobby shop. I hope to be able to pick one up sometime in 2019.
That is a very interesting fixture for sharpening slitting blades, It's very simple> :-)
Build Something Cool Yeah it is a simple little fixture. Seemed to work well and was easy to use. Very nice to see you Dale👍
Hi Steve, I got some awesome stickers in the mail today. Thanks!
redXL883c Glad they made 👍.
Enjoy your KO Lee quest, Steve. Experience using that machine w/ wood cutting tools- resharpening shaper cutters, router bit, ect.,... Now I'm lapidary rock grinder. Crafting stone pendants. Where do you purchase a 10 dollar diamond grinding wheel? I could put one of those to good use. The lapidary hobby is a rock bottom biz Ha.... Anyway the K O Lee is a versatile machine and I can tell you will enjoy all its compound angles. Sharp On !
Really enjoyed this video Steve. Thanks! 👍
Bob Miller Thank Bob👍
Great job Steve. Cheers
Neat job Steve. You are getting there
James Dedmon Yeah, It's going to take time. It's a complex machine.
as always another interesting video, thanks Steven
Thats funny. You have some tooling but nothing to use it in so you get the K&T. I had a useless box of 32 acp ammo so I got a Savage Model 1907 32 acp semi-auto pistol to use it in. LOL Great videos by the way. You Inspiring me to get off my lazy ass and do something in my shop like working on and cleaning up my K&T 2H and other chores.
Yeah man, get out in your shop and break something 😃. I find the hardest part is getting started. Thanks for watching 👍
Ill have to see what I can come up with to grind the inserts like that, that would really be handy to have a back rake like that on some inserts for various applications. I usually just use a masonry bit on my mighty mite table saw to grind the carbide, lol.
You can make the disks more coarse or fine depending on how fast you run the diamond across the grinding disk, and adjust the aggressiveness of the wheel so that it doesnt load up as easily like it is doing now. Thats why your bits are building up heat because the disks are loading up and it's more or less burnishing the metal than grinding it. If you go across the grinding wheel quickly and create a coarser grinding edge, it shouldnt do that. Thanks for the video, that was pretty cool.
Hey Steve, I like your computer hard drive magnets holding the rubber apron on the mill. I am doing the same, and I am actually using them on my lathe to hold the inexpensive dro scales on the two axis and it works great.
Ed KE6BNL I use them on all kinds of stuff. They really work great. Thanks for stopping by Ed👍
Very cool, yet again. Keep up the great content.
Hey Steve. Keith from Michigan and this blade sharpener device was pretty clever 👌. I don't do tube videos, I'd like to comment 😀. Maybe since you started to grind your blades, hopefully you were able to master the process to regrind them. Let me know if had successfully done this. Let me know okay 👌.
Good job, looks like you are ready to start a saw and cutter sharpening business.
hey man, just wanted to give you a tip for your slitting saw arbor. Sometimes machining an arbor on the lathe and then mounting it on the mill will get you a bit of run-out, I suggest that you rough out the new arbor on the lathe and then take the finish cut on the mill... mounting a lathe cutter in the vise and spining the arbor with the mill spindle, that way the arbor will be machined perfectly straight with your mill spindle
Cool video! Anytime one of you guys demo surface grinding it gets my full attention, like yourself, I’m learning too!
Curious, who makes the work holding fixture you use? That’s pretty slick! Perhaps even a video all about work holding! There’s always great ideas in others set ups! Cheers
When Brian gets his shop going, I'm sure he'll have some regrinding opportunities for you.
Sharpening an insert is a very good idea. When you have limited funds every replaced cutter is an expense and is good for the learning curve of your T&C grinder. This no different than sharpening brazed carbide before inserts came on the market. If you only sharpen it back around 1/8" or slightly less then the shoulder will act as a chip breaker.
On the circular cutter, when you are finished grinding mount a test indicator so that the point of the indicator is touching the tooth on the gullet side, rotate the cutter in the opposite of the normal cutting direction. The indicator should show an increase of about .002" in 1/16" on the ground portion before the indicator would drop off in the gullet of the next tooth. Hard to explain, but it shows that you have clearance.
Great video I can't see to much of the KO Lee. I picked up a large horizontal mill myself and can't wait to see you tackle sharpening the cutters. I would also like to see you mount and balance the grinding wheel itself. Have fun.
Hello Steve, Nice video. FYI the typical slitting saw should have 6/8 degrees of relief angle. At 2 degrees the saw will generate a wear land rapidly and be dull in a short period of time. You have my email, if you have any questions on cutters, let me know and I'll help you out.
cuttingtooldesigner Thanks Man. I don't clame to know much about cutters and relief angles . I appreciate the advice and yes I have your email 👍 I will contact you if I have questions. The way I set the saw up was incorrect and I ended up with 4.5 degrees as best as I can tell. Seem to work ok for now. I still got a long way to go😃
Nice repurpose on the spindle guard! Other than closing up the hole - I'd leave the finish as is! It looks good!
Loved the whole video but especialy 38:29. Gives a great prespective.
So there is a sharpening bible - the norton tool room grinding book. I see Adam sent you a copy. For any others out there who are interested it is available as a pdf on Vintagemachinery.org. Glad you got it. Great stuff in there that will get you up and running. Look forward to learning along with you.
A good machinist can admit he is not a pro. I think you are well on your way to expert machinist. Thanks for your vids from Alaska. P.s my house is still throbbing and trembling I'm just a few miles from 7.0 epicenter. I've been through 4 to 5 earthquake of 5.0 to 7.0 and this earthquake was so fast and the top of my house moved so fast my desk moved out from under my computer and it stood in mid air like a cartoon and my fridge was walking and dumping everything out then all the contents of my medicine cabinet fell in the sink turning on the water that is when I thought the walls were separating. I have ptsd after that. In Alaska 1964 a 9.2 for 5+ minutes this 1 was 30 seconds were not done and I can't sleep.
Hope all returns to normal soon. Only felt one small quake in my life and it was unsettling. You think the ground is stable and it's shocking when it starts moving. Thanks for watching Bud👍
Steve, I have a Hardinge TM-UM horizontal mill, it is considered a ultra precision tool room mill. The foot print is fairly small and it is supposed to weigh around 700-800 lbs. this mill has a Hardinge V head, vertical head. The mill came from Hardinge with a 1/2 hp two speed motor, but mine has been changed out to a 1 hp DC motor with a variable speed control. 99% of what I do is done with the vertical head, but it is nice to be able to use the horizontal mill on occasion. The only time I felt it needed more power was horizontal milling with a 2” wide shell mill, I got the job done but had to reduce the depth of cut and feed speed to WAY low!
Sounds like a real nice machine. Would be nice to have the horizontal option. I think everyone likes Hardinge stuff. they are known for some of the best machine tools. Never owned one myself.
There is a section on “cutting tools” in Machinery’s Handbook which covers a wealth of info on the topic, I’m still studying it. Starrett recommends using brand new power hacksaw blades at light cuts for a while to allow the edge to break in - there has to be a tiny radius for full cuts. Microscopy immediately shows the problem, the new, too-sharp feather edge is so fine it overheats and embrittles the edge leading to cracking in the surface and loss of sharpness. Or at least it does with band saw blades. I guess this implies you need to examine your sharpening microscopically to achieve top results. Of course I defer to anyone who actually knows what they are doing. ;)
Steve, I found it works better for dressing wheels to mount the diamond at a 10-15 degree angle, leaning away from the direction of rotation. The diamond is rotated in the holder a bit occasionally. That keeps the diamond working with a sharp point instead of a blunt nub.
Nice job! Enjoy learning with you. It will be awhile before I get my tool grinder running but you give food for thought!
Liked your garden as well! Ours is not as far along as yours. I have limited time, and plant a couple things at a time depending on the amount of free time I have. But have been eating asparagus, and artichokes since March. Just picked my first zuchini.
Jeff Erdman Good to see you Jeff. 👍 Love the garden. We can all the extra and eat on it all year. Elizabeth likes the canning.
Oh dear ... it's that time of year. Where you always lock your car when in town. So you don't come back to it and find the back seat full of zucchini ... ;-)
Eat it every day when in season, and sneak the rest in to the backseat of someone's car!! LOL
As hot as it has been here, if I had a cool creek by my house I would put my belly in it too. :)
One of the first things I figured out on my Harig 618 surface grinder is heat put into the part matters a whole lot when you're trying to get a tenth parallelism, and faster passes seem to heat it up less. Holding it under the wheel just grinds down the top expanded by the heat and leaves a low* spot when it cools down.
multiHappyHacker Makes sense. Never did any real grinding. On top of learning cutter geometry and nomenclature. Then trying to get the angles you want.
I'm no wizard by any means, but I've made a few mistakes on it already and made a couple good parts. One thing I find interesting is that if I have an unbalanced wheel (or arbor, beware the random ebay arbor!) on my DRO I can see the reading fluttering around from the vibration typically half a tenth on the head up/down. The thing that reduced imbalance the most was dressing the front and back faces of the grinding wheel with a diamond, and then the bottom. With the 50 millionths resolution DRO with a wheel not dressed on the front and back I can tell there is more or less vibration depending on the previous dress of bottom of the wheel.
Dressing the wheel on the bottom will progressively change the "quantity" I guess of the vibration up or down, there is a sweet spot that might go away the next time you dress it. Or maybe my wheels and arbors or grinder is just junk, but I don't think so. Norton wheels, and true the wheel on the front and back for best results, though fair warning I have no formal training on running a surface grinder.
Without a DRO you will just have to grind parts and examine the results, from the last video you did it was pretty obvious there was a lot of "hammering" in the surface finish, likely from an unbalanced wheel.
I don't know if I missed something but shouldn't you align the vertical of the machinist square with the existing relief angle rather than the 2 deg off, the way you did it pretty much cancelled the relief and brought it back to zero (you would use the protractor only if you had a zero angle on the slitting saw tooth already and were trying to get the 2 deg off of it, the teeth already had the relief so you only needed to make sure the wheel will cut the same angle) - but then again, maybe I missed something and didn't understand the setup.
Hi mate , you could try with the cutter closer to the centre height of the wheel , sometimes this works if the wheel is to hard for the for the material being ground - less contact area . When i used to grind spiral flutes ,( it was along time ago ) i would set it up with the grinding pressure toward the spring finger . cheers .
adventure = learning.
Hi Steve! I think that 75 might be the outside diameter of that wheel in millimeters. (About 3 inches). Keep up your good work.
Interesting. I just figured (quite incorrectly) that you sharpened a saw by grinding the gullet or whatever the inside of the tooth face is called.
AFAIK the space between saw teeth _is_ called the gullet, i've never heard it called a flute
Rob Mckennie I got two different books that conflict. Not a pro at cutter nomenclature. Just one more thing I need to get fermiluar with.
Did you check your diamond wheel mounting hole? It might be easier to make the hole concentric, then shim it up with a round of tape, or shim stock, or thread, or two. I have used this before, but not on an app so critical as this diamond wheel.
I have seen dust collector adapters for drill press and wood made of PVC pipe. You can turn nesting pipe sizes for a sliding fit. When paired with dry air cooling the combo could really control the chips if they are small enough to handle.
The click spring is touching two places on teeth which make up angle indexing, (1) tooth crest radial height and (2) tooth radial angle.
This way, when the first refreshed teeth comes around meeting the click spring the first time, would that new crest height cause index angle error to the remaining teeth for uneven crest height?
Remedy? Rest the click spring on something but tooth crest.
i worked at a place so thrifty we would have to re touch our knux inserts. worked well though
Does anyone else get K.O. Lee Envy? i doo, even though i have most of the coolest stuff. GOTTA HAVE IT ALL!!
I have a really cool cutter manufacturing book on ll the angles and appllications you may want to borrow sometime. There is probably 50 pages alone on shaper/planer tooling and its uses.
That would be one to let Keith scan into his archives. The shaper operation reference I have has the tool grinds scattered through it, and sometimes it's a lengthy chore to find what you need.
bcbloc02 Yeah Brian I may take you up on that book loan. Adam Booth just sent me a book that answered several questions I had on setting finger height to get a desired angle. Not sure why but your comments take 2 days to show up where I can see them. Same thing I think last week.🤔
Hi Brian. What is the books title?
Tool Engineers Handbook
Hey great video Steve. Keep your eyes peeled on ebay for a Norton brake controlled truing device, if you get one without a wheel let me know I have a few spares.. I managed to get one for $30 but you will need to setup search notification as they don't last long. Most of the time they go for stupid money. It works great for diamond and CBN and really fast.
Cape Cod CNC Ok, Great. Those are nice. Seen others use them. You stole that one at 30 bucks.
Ya I am still waiting for the grinder police to show up. PM sent....
Leave the chrome Steve! Extra 20hp.
Local scrap yard will have lot of carbide for practice. If you mess it up - still has scrap value.
_Dan_
House of Broken Dobbs Things _ with Dan Dobbs Made the spindle run much faster😃.
Just a guess from an amateur observer. The first grind was a bit heavy, so you got discoloration.
A cool mist might be a help
Thanks
There must be a bible about cutter grinding out there somewhere. There are books about just about every other specialty.
Hi Steve,
I am following your tool grinding adventures with great interest. I am getting a AI Hembrug universal grinder back in operational condition and hope to get my hand on tool grinding too. Would you mind sharing the titles of the books you are using to learn about everything toolgrinding? I would really appreciate it, and probably some other viewers too.
Regards, Peter
Peter Heuts Hello Peter, The only book so far is by Norton Abrasive called a book on tool room grinding. Good little book and is a good start. I show it at the end of last week's video. This video is from 2 weeks ago and a lot has changed. Thanks for watching 👍
And by the way, I was told that you can access this book free at WWW.vintagemachinery.org
Hey that's a model airplane prop balancer in the background! Or have I been balancing props on a grinder wheel balancer all this time?
Rv4 Guy It's a prop balancer 😃
Here is a page with some good inspiration on what cutting angles to use. NTK Swiss inserts are interesting to learn about. They are designed with smaller DOC in mind, might be optimal for the minilathe although probably not affordable. If you can grind your own instead, I would try using them as a starting point.
www.ntkcuttingtools.com/product/ss_chipbreakers.html
I'm hoping someone will go this direction, because if you look up the promo videos for NTK Swiss tools it is very interesting and seems like it would work well on small lathes that require a smaller DOC and feed rate.
Very informative. I appreciate the thought process as much as the results. I see you have some very heavy hitters on your subscription list :) and if Robin or Stefan say you are doing well, why then you are!
Juan Rivero Thanks Juan👍. Got lots of great people looking over my shoulder.
Coolant?
I believe I read on a forum once that you can use a single point diamond to true a diamond wheel, but I can't say i've ever done it or seen someone else do it
Please dont do that - Will ruin both wheel and diamond.
@Stefan I've done a bit more research, any plenty of people are saying it works, but at least one person has said they've seen it attempted and it didn't work well. Perhaps it's difficult to make work?
9:52 - You could use a rubber blanking grommet...
BEST MAGNIFIER = LENS OUT OF (( OLD , 200# - 300# )) PROJECTION TV !
Drill and tap that cover hole and plug it😀
It seems to me the diamond wheel is rotating very fast. So the high spots hit. The high spots in the wheel will do the work and wear faster
I don't mean to be a troll.
Thanks
So, at 8:07 are you lining the relief up with the protractor? If you're trying to replicate the factory grind wouldn't you want to line the relief up to the square, because the grinder is going to grind it square?
Rob Mckennie Yes , I don't know what I was thinking. Basically I ended up with 4.5 degrees. Worked well but not what a was after. But yes, you are correct I believe.
I'm pretty sure run out is normal on slitting saws.
Yes, it is normal. However, by making a simple arbor that can be dressed after each installation by using a lathe tool held in the mill vise, it can be trued for every time you use it. Spindle runout, collet runout, arbor runout, all cured with one pass each in the axial and radial directions.
You need multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/629874O/3m-scotch-brite-bristle-discs-and-brushes.pdf to radius the edge of carbide inserts, good luck with the grinding !
Steev..... Centre hieght of the insert reduced... Problem in cutting..
Remember, all experts start off knowing nothing about a subject.
Musst mal deine Scheibe abrichren, die Zähne sind doch alle ausgeglüht.
Your video would be much more enjoyable without all the text overlays. Every time one appears on screen it breaks the mood, concentration, etc.
hey steve just recieved your stickers im the one who sent the reamers i misplaced your email address could you resend thanks PETE
TheDieselmb Sure Pete, my email is noel.steve15@gmail.com