Nah.... it's eeeezy to be eeeeval... Lazy almost 🤷♂️ But how would anyone know... Not for me to say 😅 Especially when our coked out psychology lords still run'n the racquet 🎾 😂 Nah, jk, everything he is saying is... Legit on many levels 💯 👌 🙌
@@juju10683 To me the shape shifter archetype would be the femme fatale of a 007 Bond film and the Trickster would be Q or Quartermaster who supplies Bond with the Gadjets for his mission.
Mr. Vogler is a head light on a dark highway of risk taking and becoming a screenwriter. He is indeed the ally of the budding author and the Mentor I need to push forward. Standing ovation ... and thank you.
I always thought Dr. Watson was just there to ask questions so that Holmes could explain his thoughts. I used to wonder why they only used him for that. But now I understand-he thinks like a normal human, which creates a balance in the story.
fascinating and so helpful .Thank you. I have long known of these archetypes but mr volger’s presentation is so succinct and complete that this has been a wonderful refresher .Had no idea that Joseph Campbell was his mentor. world class stuff. 👏🏽💯🤩
It's illuminating to look at whatever story you are currently working on and wonder if your characters fit into any of these archetypes. Just for grins, I did that. And even though I think my characters are pretty solid and clearly defined, almost all of them had different percentages of 5 to 7 of those archetypes. Partly because those characters are all complex and hopefully three-dimensional. And certain aspects might come out stronger at certain times and weaker at other times. A particular character might be high in one archetypal concept and not as high in another, depending on the character his or herself. IOW, I couldn't define characters as fitting all that perfectly into any of these archetypes, but I could see all of them partially fitting into nearly all of the archetypes in varying amounts. They may each have dominant traits, but every character seems to be a mix of these aspects rather than adhering monolithically to any particular archetype. What I've decided is that these archetypes can be thought of as basic human characteristics that anyone could be capable of under the right circumstances. And maybe everyone is capable of assuming any of these roles, at least to a certain degree. This could be a key element in what makes people different from each other. I'm not sure what the value of consciously categorizing the differences between archetypes is, though. Trying to create characters to fit into particular characteristics doesn't seem to be something that can improve the creation of characters, and it might even take them in the wrong direction. I've never been a big believer in shoehorning. It seems to me that maybe the best thing to do is to get your conscious mind out of the way and let your adaptive unconscious have the freedom to create and mold the characters without thinking about this, which will probably end up fashioning them in the best way, instinctively, and very likely will create and mold them partially defined as fitting one or more of these archetypes, automatically. And during revision, maybe evaluate how whatever your unconscious has created fits the archetypes, which might allow you to sand off some of the rough edges and reshape them a bit into a reader or viewer's unconscious expectations.
Examples/Thoughts: Hero: Video Game Protagonists - I can relate to projecting onto them even if they’re male, I like their introspectiveness and charm Mentor: I love Princess Celestia from My Little Pony! 🦄💕 Shapeshifter: In fiction land, I am a shapeshifter who has many different forms.
Shadow: I like Shadow from Sonic the Hedgehog, and I like this type because of the contrast of light versus dark 🌚🌝 :) Threshold Guardian: I like! It reminds me of how our family and elders treat us. Trickster: LOVE tricksters! I find them quite nice. Think of the Cheshire Cat or a jester :3
I LOVE how you say “getting the shadow out into the light is a good idea.” That’s so right! That’s what I do and that’s why I’m happy. I dig into and explore myself :)
Ally: Love that … I would actually be that as well. I am that in real life. Herald: What comes to mind is most of the Big Bang Theory characters, or any character that’s overly basic, from what I can see :I lol
I have always been fascinated with the trickster who brings many mystical and or mysterious layers of the completely unexpected … giving the story line lots more depth and shedding more light upon who we really are as humans. Thank you for this interview. He has the same last name as mine which is fairly uncommon, so can’t help wonder if any relation.
There is no absolute evil and there is no absolute good, and both of them, whether good or bad, are the product of circumstances that they have been exposed to at some point in time, and have affected them in some way. Therefore, I prefer the unclear characters who wander between good and evil in an intense internal struggle. Finaly, I choose the hero. To be more specific: The tragic hero and/or the underdog.
I tend to like the reluctant hero, generally ordinary people who find themselves in extraordinary situations, and not always getting it right. The growth tends to be undeniable as the story progresses. For my own novel, I wrote a reluctant hero, but he's also not the usual brand. He's a bit rough around the edges, but has a strong sense of right vs wrong. I intentionally clouded his good nature in the superficial, i.e. he looks like a homeless person and uses foul language. The point is that most readers tend to judge him harshly based on those things while ignoring what he actually does: sacrifice himself to protect others. It's meta.
Hi Zachary, thank you! We currently have the full interview available for channel members. We have one remaining clip with Mr. Vogler to publish before we release the full interview. Hopefully sooner than later. Here is the full playlist of everything we have online - bit.ly/420becd
Talking of tricker characters, Wile E. Coyote's first appearance in 1949 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies Comics Issue 91. Wile E. Coyote was called Kelsey Coyote before Wile E. made his debut on September 17, 1949, in Fast and Furry-ous. -> ruclips.net/video/VU1rz2r9a7c/видео.html This is what WarnerBros. was hiding from us!. Also, Road Runners 1st appearance in 1958 Bugs Bunny Vacation Funnies in Dell Comics, Road Runner was called Beep Beep, name was not the Road Runner -> ruclips.net/video/d5Fgy5s9Erg/видео.html
I have a tendency to unconsciously write the same three characters, and they're all the same combo of hero mixed with companion. But that paints a very incomplete picture. *CHARACTER ONE:* The stoic female leader. She's calm, collected, and competent. She's not always the leader of the three, but she gives off commanding-officer vibes. *CHARACTER TWO:* The female wiseass who may or may not be the second-in-command for Character One. Gives off street punk energy, always a little bit spoiling for a rumble. *CHARACTER THREE:* The big brother type. He's tall, down-to-earth, and naturally protective of his friends. The cooler head that prevails; it's hard to imagine having an argument with him. I've written these characters so many times and in so many different ways and only realize it after I go back and read what I've written. (Also, I'm an animator and have a tendency to voice Character Two.)
@@oliverford5367 Jung conceived of the idea of psychological "archetypes" applied to psychology. Campbell was an ethnolinguist who discovered that disparate small tribes in no way connected had the same stories with similar character types ("The Hero with 1000 Faces") or a "universal myth" structure. George Lucas himself thanked Campbell for the story structure Lucas used for Star Wars.
![14 Movie Characters Writers Should Know - Eric Edson [Full Version - Screenwriting Masterclass]](/img/1.gif)
In another clip Christopher Vogler goes in depth on Character - ruclips.net/video/5BATvRkj2j8/видео.html
Archetypes:
1. Hero. Idealized character.
2. Mentor. Generational teacher.
3. Shape-shifter. Shifty nature.
4. Shadow. Dark reflection.
5. Threshold Guardian. Fork road gate.
6. Trickster. Comedic deceiver.
7. Ally. Comic relief.
8. Herald. Less essential, but call to arms or warning.
Thank you for the summary, you saved me 17 minutes
@@xtsdagger6956 Edson fleshed these out coherently and concisely. For me, it was 17 minutes well spent.
Villains are great because they show what the hero could be but they choose not to.
That's a very insightful point.
Nah.... it's eeeezy to be eeeeval...
Lazy almost 🤷♂️
But how would anyone know...
Not for me to say 😅
Especially when our coked out psychology lords still run'n the racquet 🎾 😂
Nah, jk, everything he is saying is...
Legit on many levels 💯 👌 🙌
Cause of my cracked screen I first read that as "victims are great cause they show what the hero could be but choose not to." That works as well😂
What happens when the villain _is the hero_ ?
A good evil, an evil good
I'm on it lol
The Hero
The Mentor
The Shape-Shifter
The Shadow
The Threshold Guardian
The Trickster
The Ally
The Herald
I struggle with the distinction between shape shifter and trickster
@@juju10683 To me the shape shifter archetype would be the femme fatale of a 007 Bond film and the Trickster would be Q or Quartermaster who supplies Bond with the Gadjets for his mission.
Not all heroes wear capes
Thanks!
I like the name of the Ally and the Herald :)
Mr. Vogler is a head light on a dark highway of risk taking and becoming a screenwriter. He is indeed the ally of the budding author and the Mentor I need to push forward. Standing ovation ... and thank you.
Superb run through archetypes. Thankyou for teaching them so clearly.
Archetypes are very important to storytelling.
They’re important but you can’t make a good story out of archetypes
You don't say
I like to think that every archetype has its own shadow.
I always thought Dr. Watson was just there to ask questions so that Holmes could explain his thoughts. I used to wonder why they only used him for that. But now I understand-he thinks like a normal human, which creates a balance in the story.
Great to see more authors on here
super thanks to Mr. Christopher for explaining the 8 architypes essential for a story
Thanks Film courage for this very useful interview
fascinating and so helpful .Thank you. I have long known of these archetypes but mr volger’s presentation is so succinct and complete that this has been a wonderful refresher .Had no idea that Joseph Campbell was his mentor. world class stuff. 👏🏽💯🤩
This was really interesting and informative! Thanks!
It's illuminating to look at whatever story you are currently working on and wonder if your characters fit into any of these archetypes. Just for grins, I did that.
And even though I think my characters are pretty solid and clearly defined, almost all of them had different percentages of 5 to 7 of those archetypes. Partly because those characters are all complex and hopefully three-dimensional. And certain aspects might come out stronger at certain times and weaker at other times. A particular character might be high in one archetypal concept and not as high in another, depending on the character his or herself.
IOW, I couldn't define characters as fitting all that perfectly into any of these archetypes, but I could see all of them partially fitting into nearly all of the archetypes in varying amounts. They may each have dominant traits, but every character seems to be a mix of these aspects rather than adhering monolithically to any particular archetype.
What I've decided is that these archetypes can be thought of as basic human characteristics that anyone could be capable of under the right circumstances. And maybe everyone is capable of assuming any of these roles, at least to a certain degree. This could be a key element in what makes people different from each other.
I'm not sure what the value of consciously categorizing the differences between archetypes is, though. Trying to create characters to fit into particular characteristics doesn't seem to be something that can improve the creation of characters, and it might even take them in the wrong direction. I've never been a big believer in shoehorning.
It seems to me that maybe the best thing to do is to get your conscious mind out of the way and let your adaptive unconscious have the freedom to create and mold the characters without thinking about this, which will probably end up fashioning them in the best way, instinctively, and very likely will create and mold them partially defined as fitting one or more of these archetypes, automatically.
And during revision, maybe evaluate how whatever your unconscious has created fits the archetypes, which might allow you to sand off some of the rough edges and reshape them a bit into a reader or viewer's unconscious expectations.
That's interesting ☺️
Thank you for sharing.
More to come!
@@filmcourage Great!
Great points, clear and concise.
Well spoken, Sir! Thank you!
Thanks for the information
More to come!
Examples/Thoughts:
Hero: Video Game Protagonists - I can relate to projecting onto them even if they’re male, I like their introspectiveness and charm
Mentor: I love Princess Celestia from My Little Pony! 🦄💕
Shapeshifter: In fiction land, I am a shapeshifter who has many different forms.
Shadow: I like Shadow from Sonic the Hedgehog, and I like this type because of the contrast of light versus dark 🌚🌝 :)
Threshold Guardian: I like! It reminds me of how our family and elders treat us.
Trickster: LOVE tricksters! I find them quite nice. Think of the Cheshire Cat or a jester :3
I LOVE how you say “getting the shadow out into the light is a good idea.” That’s so right! That’s what I do and that’s why I’m happy. I dig into and explore myself :)
Ally: Love that … I would actually be that as well. I am that in real life.
Herald: What comes to mind is most of the Big Bang Theory characters, or any character that’s overly basic, from what I can see :I lol
I really wish his book, "The Writer's Journey," had been published in Kindle format, because I can no longer read print books.
Interesting and insightful as always!
I have always been fascinated with the trickster who brings many mystical and or mysterious layers of the completely unexpected … giving the story line lots more depth and shedding more light upon who we really are as humans. Thank you for this interview. He has the same last name as mine which is fairly uncommon, so can’t help wonder if any relation.
Which archetype is your favorite to watch/read about and why (i.e., Hero, Ally, etc.)?
I’d say the regular joe. We relate to Everyman but we
Also relate to heroes as well
The villains are also great. After, every story needs a good villain.
There is no absolute evil and there is no absolute good, and both of them, whether good or bad, are the product of circumstances that they have been exposed to at some point in time, and have affected them in some way. Therefore, I prefer the unclear characters who wander between good and evil in an intense internal struggle. Finaly, I choose the hero. To be more specific: The tragic hero and/or the underdog.
I tend to like the reluctant hero, generally ordinary people who find themselves in extraordinary situations, and not always getting it right. The growth tends to be undeniable as the story progresses.
For my own novel, I wrote a reluctant hero, but he's also not the usual brand. He's a bit rough around the edges, but has a strong sense of right vs wrong. I intentionally clouded his good nature in the superficial, i.e. he looks like a homeless person and uses foul language. The point is that most readers tend to judge him harshly based on those things while ignoring what he actually does: sacrifice himself to protect others. It's meta.
@@mixed-media 👍👍👍👍. Well said
Really interesting!
Narcissists like to be seen as mentors to people they seek supply from.
Where can I find this full interview?
This info is gold.
Hi Zachary, thank you! We currently have the full interview available for channel members. We have one remaining clip with Mr. Vogler to publish before we release the full interview. Hopefully sooner than later. Here is the full playlist of everything we have online - bit.ly/420becd
@@filmcourage Oh thank you!
Strong
Talking of tricker characters, Wile E. Coyote's first appearance in 1949 Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies Comics Issue 91. Wile E. Coyote was called Kelsey Coyote before Wile E. made his debut on September 17, 1949, in Fast and Furry-ous. -> ruclips.net/video/VU1rz2r9a7c/видео.html
This is what WarnerBros. was hiding from us!.
Also, Road Runners 1st appearance in 1958 Bugs Bunny Vacation Funnies in Dell Comics, Road Runner was called Beep Beep, name was not the Road Runner -> ruclips.net/video/d5Fgy5s9Erg/видео.html
I have a tendency to unconsciously write the same three characters, and they're all the same combo of hero mixed with companion. But that paints a very incomplete picture.
*CHARACTER ONE:* The stoic female leader. She's calm, collected, and competent. She's not always the leader of the three, but she gives off commanding-officer vibes.
*CHARACTER TWO:* The female wiseass who may or may not be the second-in-command for Character One. Gives off street punk energy, always a little bit spoiling for a rumble.
*CHARACTER THREE:* The big brother type. He's tall, down-to-earth, and naturally protective of his friends. The cooler head that prevails; it's hard to imagine having an argument with him.
I've written these characters so many times and in so many different ways and only realize it after I go back and read what I've written.
(Also, I'm an animator and have a tendency to voice Character Two.)
Catwoman would be the ultimate shapeshifter.
So he basically invented Joseph Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces
Jung was the psychological basis for Campbell yes. Jung also described personality types, like introversion vs extraversion
@@oliverford5367 Jung conceived of the idea of psychological "archetypes" applied to psychology. Campbell was an ethnolinguist who discovered that disparate small tribes in no way connected had the same stories with similar character types ("The Hero with 1000 Faces") or a "universal myth" structure. George Lucas himself thanked Campbell for the story structure Lucas used for Star Wars.
I wonder which kind of archetype is Jar Jar Binks ?