Lorica Segmentata! What a wonderful phrase Lorica Segmentata! Ain't no passing craze It means no worries For the rest of your days It's our problem-free Roman armoury Lorica Segmentata!
I nominate you as a budding poet (even though that was a bad poem, if we're being honest)... You are now "Cantata de Segmentata" ps: in answer to your question, "Yes," my Latin IS as bad as your poem... :D
I've always been fascinated by Roman Britain and came to your channel looking for Roman material. I am now a subscriber! Oddly enough I visited the ruins at Corbridge when I was very young and my interest in the period pretty much dates from that time!
The idea that this type of armour was favored by Roman legionnaires at the height of the Empire's power probably chiefly comes from Trajan's Column in Rome - a monument commemorating the victory in the second Dacian war (105-106 C.E.). Almost all ancient images depicting lorica segmentata that your're likely to come across are probably taken from that impressive monument - and, indeed, most Roman soldiers are depicted wearing the lorica segmentata on the Column. But another Roman great monument from the same period depicts Roman soldiers as primarily wearing mail armour (lorica hamata) - it's the Tropaeum Traiani in present-day Adamclisi, Romania, built to commemorate the Roman victory in the battle of Adamclisi of the first of Trajan's Dacian Wars (101-102 C.E.). So the fact that two different monuments celebrating two different victories in Trajan's Dacian wars depict Roman soldiers differently in this respect may suggest artistic biases towards uniformity, obscuring maybe a great deal of variety.
@@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat Entirely contemporary, actually. Both were built over a period of a few years, starting just after the end of the Dacian campaigns (year 106). Most of the original bas-reliefs from Adamclisi survive, and the lorica segmentata is nowhere to be seen there, while other types of arms and armour specific to the period are easily recognisable. Maybe the segmentata was considered a more appropriate choice for the Italian public? Who knows
@@adrianj402 I suspect that there may have been a mental bias in the Italic Public. "Legionaries wear Segmentata, Auxilliaries wear Hamata" (or maybe there was just a general preference amoungst the Auxiliaries for Hamata since I've never heard of a monument showing non-legionaries in Segmentata). So when the artist was making it, and needed a way to show "These are Rome's Legionaries" he made the obvious choice. Meanwhile in the Provinces it may have been less important to differentiate between the two types of units? Or because of the more military nature of the audience they maybe needed to be closer to reality? And there was almost certainly a lot of variety, Roman soldiers after all bought their own equipment. If you want to see what that leads to on a smaller scale look up videos of British Infantry in the modern era, they buy a lot of their own equipment to replace and augment the issued stuff and it gives you and idea of the variety that can spring up.
Depends on the type of CoP or Brig you are talking about. There is a huge difference between early 14th century CoP like the Wisby finds, later 14th century CoP which are essentially covered cuirasses like the Munich example and 15th and 16th century Brigs. I would say in the broadest terms that CoP and Brigs tend to be better than Lorica Segmentata as they are (generally) more advanced metallurgy and the construction method is more sound, being less prone to gaping open. This is a big problem with Lorica Segmentata as you can see in the video when the chap moves his arms.
@@callumtostevin-hall2044 That's a reasonable assessment, but what are the odds of being hit in such a small gap in a fight? Particularly behind a scutum?
@@jeffreyroot7346 Rather high actually, if the point of a weapon hits the plates it can fairly easily skid into those gaps, especially because the shaping of the plates is rather limited.
@@J_n.. That is not correct, a good brigandine will have much better mobility than a Lorica Segmentata and an earlier CoP will be about equal. Weight will be massively variable between examples.
We have a couple a reenactors in our area. They use hamata as well as the segmentata for drills and stuff. They say it is lighter and more easier to wear then mail. They believe it could be worn by kind of, mobile reserve on the battle field. Like a kohort kept in reserves and then moved quickly where there is a crisis in the battle. ...anyway, just a theorie
I would like to see the inside of it. And also I would like to see it from the bottom up to see how much or little gap there is in the girdle bands. I'm making one at the moment and its going... Well lets just say it will work but don't know how good it will look. I'm running into trouble with spacing and alignment lol so I'm curious to see how flush all the plates sit
Good to see some ancient stuff. :) Lorica segmentata is as far as I know a modern term. I never saw a genuin Roman name for the armor, contrary to lorica hamata for mail armor. Maybe the segmented armor was introduced during the Augustean military reforms which created the professional Roman army. It was clearly in use earlier than thought before when an introduction in the first part of the 1st c. AD was assumed. There are findings from Roman campsites dated to about 15 BC. Also from the battlefield at Kalkriese (northern Germany, near Osnabrück), mostly dated to about 9 AD or at latest 16 AD, we have findings of parts of segmented armor. There are also findings of parts from mail armor at the same spots, from the frequency we can assume that legionaries wore both forms of armor. Generally the Roman army cannot be thought of as uniformly equipped as it is shown in most popular media.
Great video, I am looking forward to seeing one you will make with the new Scutum shield that will be very interesting. The Roman war methods were truly amazing, cheers. Thumbs up.
So historically what happened technology wise? Here we have basically articulated plate which then seems to disappear for almost a thousand years before it shows back up again.
@@Erikaaaaaaaaaaaaa It didn't actually 'largely replace' mail, but it did feature prominently in victory arches and such. While segmentata was indeed more protective than hamata, it was way more expensive and harder to repair and replace than the latter. It was eventually phased out not because of the lack of protection but more because of economic and logistic issues.
Even use of mail became less common in many areas after the contraction and split of the Roman empire. Padded cloth armor without mail over it was pretty common, with mostly only the wealthier people wearing mail over it. It took some time before local powers developed enough to support well equipped armies. They were also mostly a mix of whatever people could manage rather than a more standardized kit like the Romans tried to maintain.
@Craig Segmentata was phased out before Islam was even a thing, but economic and logistic issues definitely played a part in it. The armour used by the byzantines (I'm assuming you're talking about the klivanion) wasn't actually laminar armour, but lamellar which is more closely related to earlier scale armour, lorica squamata/plumata for example. Lamellar armour was used as early as 6th - 7th century BCE by the assyrians, so byzantines using it wasn't really as groundbreaking as romans using lorica segmentata. All in all I think the main reason of lorica segmentata, and almost all forms of early plate armour for that matter, is the cost and difficulty of production and repair.
Lacing question: Front and back the armor looks laced together with a single lace, crisscrossed like a shoelace. Would it not have made more sense to tie each with a separate string? The way this is laced, getting any part of the lace cut, would loosen the entire harness.
@Michael Smith If you are not likely to get hit in the middle of the chest with a sharp object, then you probably don't need armor there at all. Given the perceived need for armor, and the vulnerability of string to sharp edges, (which I understand to be common on weapons like spears and swords) I would think that tying a couple of extra knots instead of lacing would be a decent risk/reward.
One thing I've always wondered is, how catastrophic it would be if the string ties being cut would be? I understand that its unlikely that they would be, particularly with a shield, but history is filled with the unlikely. Could you reasonably fight on with the front unfastening, or does it go awry quickly?
tisFrancesfault There’s a debate about this in reenactor circles. I know of no evidence that suggests a single lace - it’s done for convenience these days. Some argue it’s fine because there’s no chance someone’s going to be able to cut it. I err on the side of caution, because organic materials will eventually break or rot - I’d rather have several points of failure with individual laces so the whole harness isn’t rendered useless, rather than one point of failure to make it useless.
@@gabrielinostroza4989 and do you seriously think you would live long enough to replace that single lace if your opposite number manages to cut it and your armor falls off of you... In its constituent parts... In mid battle... After already beeing past your shield and guard in order to cut that lace in the first place... Take an educated guess...
@@SonsOfLorgar in the unlikely event a sword swing hits just the right spot to cut the lace, it could cut down several of them too. But with the legionary holding his shield, facing his chest away and actively fighting, it's kinda like those arguments about medieval armors having exposed straps or not. It would only make a difference if you were pinned down on the ground and someone was trying to get into your armor to finish you off, except a legionary has more places to worry about being stabbed in. The biggest hurdle in the practical use of the segmentata is maintenance, the second biggest is putting it on quickly and without help. I think they would have preferred the easier, quicker way, less laces to keep track of, less knots to tie in a hurry.
You could say the same thing about Brigandines. Some styles buckle up in the front. And Italian Milanese Armor has a leather strap on the front that connects the plackart and breastplate. And then lamellar armor is full of ties and laces.
@@dernwine But said Latin word for armor was used historically. It's the hamata, squamata, and segmentata appended to lorica that are modern innovations. Lorikion shows up in Greek sources as early as the 6th C. IIRC and, like so many other Byzantine military terms, is an adaptation of Latin jargon.
@@dernwine Apologies for misinterpreting the intent of your comment. I took it to refer to "lorica segmentata" and "lorica hamata" rather than just "segmentata" and "hamata" as ahistorical terms, and the "But" opener seemed to be intending a counter point rather than an addendum.
Lorica Hamata was just as modern a name as Lorica Segmentata. The Romans called maille Tunica Ferrea or Thorakion Halusidoton. The term Hamata appears in poetry, but mostly in late antiquity. And it's not really used like we use it.
I know that it is not, but that armor is just the right shade and the light is hitting it in just the right way that it looks like you are pixelating your guest.
What would be advantage of Lorica Segmentata vs chain mail Hamata ? And was there evidence of wearing chain mail under Lorica Segmentata historically speaking ?
Love seeing you doing Roman stuff Matt. Can I add a few thoughts? 1 Lorica Segmentata and Lorica Hamata (and Squagmata etc) are not actually Roman words, they're Victorian Inventions (or maybe slightly earlier, but definitely post Renaissance) but since nobody knows what the Romans called their armour we use the Victorian names. 2 The Legionary vs Auxillia thing; the most common theory going around isn't that it actually wasn't Lorica Segmentata meant legionary and Hamata meant Auxilliary. The way procurement worked for much of Roman History was Roman Soldiers would be given a allowance of sorts to buy their own equipment, which had to be within certain parameters. Whether you, as a Legionary, bought Segmentata or Hamata seems to have come down to personal preference, availability, cost, quality and exactly how much of your equipment allowance you wanted to spent (A Legionary stationed with say, Legio XXII Primigenia in Mainz, Germany, will probably want to spent all of his equipment allowance + maybe some of his saving on the best equipment he can afford, while a Legionary in Legio VII Gemina in Leon will probably think it wiser to get bottom of the range equipment and put the rest of his kit allowance into his savings). There may however have been some kind of prohibition on Auxiliaries buying Lorica Segmentata since we know of zero depictions of them wearing it. 3 There may be an element of Propaganda/Media factoring into all of this. On Trajan's Column all Legionaries are depicted wearing Segmentata, and it has been argued it's simply an artistic license to allow the viewer to know "Aha these are the Legionaries!" rather than a strict depiction of reality.
@@TheChiconspiracy If you have a link to any site reports I'd love to see them. As I said I've never seen any depictions (as in Roman made contemporary depictions) of them. Segmentata in Auxilliary Castra would be interesting but not conclusive (could've been left by Legionaries visiting or stored but not used for example) depending on the context. But it would be great if there where finds because it would shed doubt on the (in my opinion slightly reaching) theory about one kind of armour being reserved for the Legions only. Something that never happened at any other time in Rome's History.
@@dernwine I'll try to find it. I share the opinion of some historians that the Adamclisi Tropaeum is a more accurate portrayal (which depicts mail as the majority armor for both legionaries and auxiliaries) that Trajan's column for a field army, since if soldiers have any say in their kit, they will reliably pick something that won't add significant maintenance time to an already exhausting daily schedule.
@@TheChiconspiracy I kind of agree with the maintenance aspect (How many soldiers will pick leather boots that require constant polishing over a more modern alternative these days?). But I think there must be something we are missing. After all the Segmentata was certainly used, just not as commonly perhaps as pop culture loves to tell us.
@@dernwine I've seen the suggestion they may have been used for parade ground type of duty while an army out in the field would use hamata almost exclusively.
Speaking from a purely lay perspective that long lace-up closure down the front of the belly seems unnecessarily vulnerable. Wouldn't separate ties for each segment make more sense, seems much less likely to have a catastrophic failure if a cord is cut. Is the style of closure shown in the video actually historical?
As a side project, I think this would be awesome to make out of HMWPE. People are making NIJ Lvl III ballistic armour out of it. It should be able to stop a sword, and it "should" be lighter, but I dont k ow how thick it would need to be. You can crap on steel for being 'heavy' but even thin sheet metal does its job,
Segmentata were/are highly recyclable. Meaning the majority were likely stripped and repurposed post fall leaving fewer examples than would have otherwise been in existence.
As far as I know it was the other way round, auxiliaries and lower class Roman citizens were provided with armour by the state which was mass produced in Fabricae. This would have been the Lorica Segmentata because it is cheaper to make and easier to produce. The more elite soldiers from honourable families with a history of military service would have inherited the more elaborate and expensive lorica Hamata from their fathers etc. E.g. legionaries of the first cohort, centurions etc.
The way it worked generally was the was an "Allowance" given to Roman Soldiers. Effectively when you signed up the state wouldn't give you a set of armour, instead they'd give you a bag of cash that they deemed an acceptable amount to spend on your equipment. It was then up to the soldier to get the armour he saw fit to buy. What you buy (or inherit) depends incredibly on your personal circumstances, where you are in the empire, etc etc. A Legionary tucked into a quiet spot would probably be happy to use his dads old armour and helmet, and keep that allowance as a retirement fund. Someone in an active unit on the Rhine or in Jerusalem will probably be willing to pay his entire allowance and then some to get the best armour he possibly can "No thanks Dad, your armour is a generation old by now, and god knows how well it'll hold up." BTW Segmentata is much harder to make than Hamata. You can basically have a child apprentice make Hamata, the metallurgy is really simple and most of the work is just time consuming rather than skill based (also the parts are completely interchangeable). Segmentata needs to be made to fit from the word go, and the Metallurgy is much more complicated, construction and assembly requires a well trained and experienced smith.
The Lorica Segmentata, looks very well made, not as much brass like other replicas. Was that perhaps a status symbol within the Legionnaires? Thanks for the video!
Metatron mentioned that segmentata made a lot of noise. Maybe that's the reason romans used it for a rather short time. (Not understanding the centurio does not come handy when orders have to be given...) Just a thought of mine, not directly linked to the Video.
I wonder if, given the ratio of segmentata to mail, that those wearing the former might have been in the front row of a cohort, soaking up the charge or something. Or maybe I’m overthinking it.
No, in fact the Auxillia were often deployed in front of the Legion to absorb or deal the first blows. Such troops were certainly professional soldiers, but would have had much more of the less expensive maille armor.
"Walkreise" is almost certainly a mistake. It could be a misspelling of "Wahlkreise", meaning constituencies (or electorial districts if you will) or "Walk-Reise", meaning "Wlak-Travel", assuming that somebody with the surname "Walk" owns a travel firm in Germany. The battle of 9 AD most likely took place near Kalkriese, a big rock (Riese = giant) of limestone (Kalk = lime) near Bramsche in Lower Saxony, Germany, although finds from 2016 and 2017 reopened the case again.
This video makes me wonder why this type of amour felt out of usage in the medieval period... The Brigandine might be the most compareable amour in medieval europe but this amour appeared quite late. So was this among the lost knowlege after the fall of west rome or did steel evolve to be good enough to make better mail amour. I would like to hear some thoughts on this, if you will. Nice video as always
Mat pointed out an archery video a few weeks ago. They shoot at chinese lamelar armour and with each shot deflected a strap is cut or a plate bent, even though most shots get neutralized. I imagine the same happens with the segmentata. Legions at the height of the empire could afford to refurbish armour between battles, and could afford high quality stuff. In the early republic Greeks, Carthaginians and Gauls kept Rome in the brink of collapse. In the migration period it was every man for himself. The fashion in armour is i.m.o. more about logistics than technology.
It's not like the knowledge was lost... even the west Romans were largely abandoning segmentata well before the fall, since mail protects nearly as well, and is far less labor intensive to maintain since you don't have to constantly replace the strips of leather or other cordage and individually polish each piece. Lamellar armor didn't vanish wholesale, it existed in both the Eastern Roman Empire (which would develop even better armor types) the Sassanians, and the Islamic forces that followed, but mail was always more popular for the reasons listed.
There was, several brigandine armor types or "coat of plates" actually offered superior protection overall.The medieval Romans (Byzaintines) and a few others also attached plates over a coat of mail to offer excellent armor for their heavy infantry.
Because it wasn't all that good. That's why it was phased out to begin with. It remained great for limb protection. But for the torso lamellar offers a more rigid alternative to mail at a fraction of the cost.
That armour looks fairly effective esp. for its time! Nice! (... and raises a question in my mind: With the concern about shankings on the street there, how come cops don't wear something like that? Beyond the fact that tourists would constantly pester them for pictures, I mean?)
Its not accurate because its not slimming down around the belly area but it could be just not fitted properly. Metatron mentioned this. It could also maybe be because he is a tiny bit on the chubby side. But the plates at the upper back do not overlap too... so idk
There should be - the problem is that we don’t actually know what one would look like. There’s never been definitive sculptural evidence of a subarmalis, and we’ve not found a physical example either. Most reenactors will wear one though.
Matt's entire time in Purgatory will be catching up on all the "I'll talk more about this in a future video" promises he's made over the years.
I'm so glad you're doing more Roman topics. Thank you.
Especially battle tactics.
Well hello :3 I very much approve the choice of topic. My ancestors salute you
hello metatron how do I buy from fabrica cati and how much are they?
Lorica Segmentata!
What a wonderful phrase
Lorica Segmentata!
Ain't no passing craze
It means no worries
For the rest of your days
It's our problem-free
Roman armoury
Lorica Segmentata!
I nominate you for "Best Comment" of this section.
I nominate you as a budding poet (even though that was a bad poem, if we're being honest)...
You are now "Cantata de Segmentata"
ps: in answer to your question, "Yes," my Latin IS as bad as your poem...
:D
A good poem, not bad as other comments say. _-, from a Prof writer
Nice.
I read every single Asterix and Obelisk book when I was a kid, great comics.
Yeah, please show us more Roman equipment!
Scutum! Formation! Sparring! ...is the kind of video I want to see.
Awesome armor. Looks very protective and mobile at the same time.
I've always been fascinated by Roman Britain and came to your channel looking for Roman material. I am now a subscriber!
Oddly enough I visited the ruins at Corbridge when I was very young and my interest in the period pretty much dates from that time!
I’ve been playing a lot of Total war Rome 2 lately so my interest in Roman stuff is definitely at a peak rn. Thanks my guy.
Matt Easton + Roman Stuff = The best birthday Present
The idea that this type of armour was favored by Roman legionnaires at the height of the Empire's power probably chiefly comes from Trajan's Column in Rome - a monument commemorating the victory in the second Dacian war (105-106 C.E.). Almost all ancient images depicting lorica segmentata that your're likely to come across are probably taken from that impressive monument - and, indeed, most Roman soldiers are depicted wearing the lorica segmentata on the Column. But another Roman great monument from the same period depicts Roman soldiers as primarily wearing mail armour (lorica hamata) - it's the Tropaeum Traiani in present-day Adamclisi, Romania, built to commemorate the Roman victory in the battle of Adamclisi of the first of Trajan's Dacian Wars (101-102 C.E.). So the fact that two different monuments celebrating two different victories in Trajan's Dacian wars depict Roman soldiers differently in this respect may suggest artistic biases towards uniformity, obscuring maybe a great deal of variety.
Interesting that the two are almost contemporary as well...
@@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat Entirely contemporary, actually. Both were built over a period of a few years, starting just after the end of the Dacian campaigns (year 106). Most of the original bas-reliefs from Adamclisi survive, and the lorica segmentata is nowhere to be seen there, while other types of arms and armour specific to the period are easily recognisable. Maybe the segmentata was considered a more appropriate choice for the Italian public? Who knows
@@adrianj402 I suspect that there may have been a mental bias in the Italic Public. "Legionaries wear Segmentata, Auxilliaries wear Hamata" (or maybe there was just a general preference amoungst the Auxiliaries for Hamata since I've never heard of a monument showing non-legionaries in Segmentata). So when the artist was making it, and needed a way to show "These are Rome's Legionaries" he made the obvious choice. Meanwhile in the Provinces it may have been less important to differentiate between the two types of units? Or because of the more military nature of the audience they maybe needed to be closer to reality?
And there was almost certainly a lot of variety, Roman soldiers after all bought their own equipment. If you want to see what that leads to on a smaller scale look up videos of British Infantry in the modern era, they buy a lot of their own equipment to replace and augment the issued stuff and it gives you and idea of the variety that can spring up.
I just love the Roman styles of armor. Segmentata, Hamata, Squamata, Gallic Helmets, Attic Helmets. Etc They're all so cool looking.
Lorica Segmentata vs Coat of Plates/Brigandine. How do they compare?
Depends on the type of CoP or Brig you are talking about. There is a huge difference between early 14th century CoP like the Wisby finds, later 14th century CoP which are essentially covered cuirasses like the Munich example and 15th and 16th century Brigs. I would say in the broadest terms that CoP and Brigs tend to be better than Lorica Segmentata as they are (generally) more advanced metallurgy and the construction method is more sound, being less prone to gaping open. This is a big problem with Lorica Segmentata as you can see in the video when the chap moves his arms.
@@callumtostevin-hall2044 That's a reasonable assessment, but what are the odds of being hit in such a small gap in a fight? Particularly behind a scutum?
@@jeffreyroot7346 Rather high actually, if the point of a weapon hits the plates it can fairly easily skid into those gaps, especially because the shaping of the plates is rather limited.
@@callumtostevin-hall2044 the lorica segmentata allows more Mobility and has better air ventilation than a CoP or Brig. And it weight less
@@J_n.. That is not correct, a good brigandine will have much better mobility than a Lorica Segmentata and an earlier CoP will be about equal. Weight will be massively variable between examples.
We have a couple a reenactors in our area. They use hamata as well as the segmentata for drills and stuff. They say it is lighter and more easier to wear then mail.
They believe it could be worn by kind of, mobile reserve on the battle field. Like a kohort kept in reserves and then moved quickly where there is a crisis in the battle. ...anyway, just a theorie
I would like to see the inside of it. And also I would like to see it from the bottom up to see how much or little gap there is in the girdle bands. I'm making one at the moment and its going... Well lets just say it will work but don't know how good it will look. I'm running into trouble with spacing and alignment lol so I'm curious to see how flush all the plates sit
Good to see some ancient stuff. :)
Lorica segmentata is as far as I know a modern term. I never saw a genuin Roman name for the armor, contrary to lorica hamata for mail armor.
Maybe the segmented armor was introduced during the Augustean military reforms which created the professional Roman army. It was clearly in use earlier than thought before when an introduction in the first part of the 1st c. AD was assumed. There are findings from Roman campsites dated to about 15 BC. Also from the battlefield at Kalkriese (northern Germany, near Osnabrück), mostly dated to about 9 AD or at latest 16 AD, we have findings of parts of segmented armor. There are also findings of parts from mail armor at the same spots, from the frequency we can assume that legionaries wore both forms of armor. Generally the Roman army cannot be thought of as uniformly equipped as it is shown in most popular media.
last time i was this early the romans were still in power....
The Metatron has entered the chat*
Great video, I am looking forward to seeing one you will make with the new Scutum shield that will be very interesting. The Roman war methods were truly amazing, cheers. Thumbs up.
So historically what happened technology wise? Here we have basically articulated plate which then seems to disappear for almost a thousand years before it shows back up again.
my best guess is that the only entity who can afford it stopped to exists
Mail is good, metal working is expensive, and Post-Roman armies weren't as glamorous.
@@Erikaaaaaaaaaaaaa It didn't actually 'largely replace' mail, but it did feature prominently in victory arches and such. While segmentata was indeed more protective than hamata, it was way more expensive and harder to repair and replace than the latter. It was eventually phased out not because of the lack of protection but more because of economic and logistic issues.
Even use of mail became less common in many areas after the contraction and split of the Roman empire. Padded cloth armor without mail over it was pretty common, with mostly only the wealthier people wearing mail over it. It took some time before local powers developed enough to support well equipped armies. They were also mostly a mix of whatever people could manage rather than a more standardized kit like the Romans tried to maintain.
@Craig Segmentata was phased out before Islam was even a thing, but economic and logistic issues definitely played a part in it. The armour used by the byzantines (I'm assuming you're talking about the klivanion) wasn't actually laminar armour, but lamellar which is more closely related to earlier scale armour, lorica squamata/plumata for example. Lamellar armour was used as early as 6th - 7th century BCE by the assyrians, so byzantines using it wasn't really as groundbreaking as romans using lorica segmentata.
All in all I think the main reason of lorica segmentata, and almost all forms of early plate armour for that matter, is the cost and difficulty of production and repair.
So that is Gavin.
Lacing question: Front and back the armor looks laced together with a single lace, crisscrossed like a shoelace. Would it not have made more sense to tie each with a separate string? The way this is laced, getting any part of the lace cut, would loosen the entire harness.
I would definitely lace each segment separately and then lace them together with eachother, unless I could pin them together with metal hinges...
Roman legionnaires had a hard life. Renaissance knights or samurai had teams to help them gear up, legionnaires just had each other.
@Michael Smith If you are not likely to get hit in the middle of the chest with a sharp object, then you probably don't need armor there at all. Given the perceived need for armor, and the vulnerability of string to sharp edges, (which I understand to be common on weapons like spears and swords) I would think that tying a couple of extra knots instead of lacing would be a decent risk/reward.
One thing I've always wondered is, how catastrophic it would be if the string ties being cut would be? I understand that its unlikely that they would be, particularly with a shield, but history is filled with the unlikely. Could you reasonably fight on with the front unfastening, or does it go awry quickly?
tisFrancesfault There’s a debate about this in reenactor circles. I know of no evidence that suggests a single lace - it’s done for convenience these days. Some argue it’s fine because there’s no chance someone’s going to be able to cut it.
I err on the side of caution, because organic materials will eventually break or rot - I’d rather have several points of failure with individual laces so the whole harness isn’t rendered useless, rather than one point of failure to make it useless.
@@rascally_ryan But on the other hand, replacing a single lace has to be much easier than mant small ones
@@gabrielinostroza4989 and do you seriously think you would live long enough to replace that single lace if your opposite number manages to cut it and your armor falls off of you...
In its constituent parts...
In mid battle...
After already beeing past your shield and guard in order to cut that lace in the first place...
Take an educated guess...
@@SonsOfLorgar in the unlikely event a sword swing hits just the right spot to cut the lace, it could cut down several of them too. But with the legionary holding his shield, facing his chest away and actively fighting, it's kinda like those arguments about medieval armors having exposed straps or not. It would only make a difference if you were pinned down on the ground and someone was trying to get into your armor to finish you off, except a legionary has more places to worry about being stabbed in.
The biggest hurdle in the practical use of the segmentata is maintenance, the second biggest is putting it on quickly and without help. I think they would have preferred the easier, quicker way, less laces to keep track of, less knots to tie in a hurry.
You could say the same thing about Brigandines. Some styles buckle up in the front. And Italian Milanese Armor has a leather strap on the front that connects the plackart and breastplate. And then lamellar armor is full of ties and laces.
The term "lorica" survived into the medieval period in the form of the lorikion, the romano-byzantine mail coat.
But "Lorica Segmentata" and "Lorica Hamata" are more modern inventions that may have no relation beyond using the Latin word for Armour.
@@dernwine But said Latin word for armor was used historically. It's the hamata, squamata, and segmentata appended to lorica that are modern innovations. Lorikion shows up in Greek sources as early as the 6th C. IIRC and, like so many other Byzantine military terms, is an adaptation of Latin jargon.
@@matthewneuendorf5763 That's literally what I just said.
@@dernwine Apologies for misinterpreting the intent of your comment. I took it to refer to "lorica segmentata" and "lorica hamata" rather than just "segmentata" and "hamata" as ahistorical terms, and the "But" opener seemed to be intending a counter point rather than an addendum.
Can't wait to get a set, I'll keep them in mind as a maker. I wish they made these out of 3a+ kevlar
It gives a whole new meaning to the expression "shoulder blades" 😂
Lorica Hamata was just as modern a name as Lorica Segmentata. The Romans called maille Tunica Ferrea or Thorakion Halusidoton. The term Hamata appears in poetry, but mostly in late antiquity. And it's not really used like we use it.
I would love to see an analysis between the Lorica segmentata, chain mail and plate mail. Or even between other types of segmented armour.
DEPLOY THE METATRON
I know that it is not, but that armor is just the right shade and the light is hitting it in just the right way that it looks like you are pixelating your guest.
Legend... thanks for doing this vid mate!!!!
How is it compared to Medieval 14th century plate? Weight, protection, mobility that kind of stuff?
Hurray for more Roman content! However, I've got a question:
-> Did the Romans use the pommel in hand to hand combat?
I'm sure they did sometimes, but I have never seen it documented.
Didn’t know John Cusack was into Ancient Rome stuff
"Ave Quirites, Mattius Oriens Superdrianicus here..."
The guy on the right is very pixelated
He's not pixelated on my screen but he looks 2 dimensional. Before he started moving and talking I thought he was a stand up poster
Is that pixelated as in pixels on the screen, or pixilated as from Mr. Deeds Goes to Town?
Roman 3D modelling technique for human figures weren't all that advanced. Their static renders of buildings were great though.
Tony Stark usando uma Lorica é a primeira vez que vejo 😂😂😂 Sensacional!!!👍🇧🇷
I have seen a documentary where they show a lorica segmentata protecting against a ballista bolt. Could that possibly be true?
What would be advantage of Lorica Segmentata vs chain mail Hamata ?
And was there evidence of wearing chain mail under Lorica Segmentata historically speaking ?
I wonder how much the costs
About £350 I believe.
Love seeing you doing Roman stuff Matt. Can I add a few thoughts?
1 Lorica Segmentata and Lorica Hamata (and Squagmata etc) are not actually Roman words, they're Victorian Inventions (or maybe slightly earlier, but definitely post Renaissance) but since nobody knows what the Romans called their armour we use the Victorian names.
2 The Legionary vs Auxillia thing; the most common theory going around isn't that it actually wasn't Lorica Segmentata meant legionary and Hamata meant Auxilliary. The way procurement worked for much of Roman History was Roman Soldiers would be given a allowance of sorts to buy their own equipment, which had to be within certain parameters. Whether you, as a Legionary, bought Segmentata or Hamata seems to have come down to personal preference, availability, cost, quality and exactly how much of your equipment allowance you wanted to spent (A Legionary stationed with say, Legio XXII Primigenia in Mainz, Germany, will probably want to spent all of his equipment allowance + maybe some of his saving on the best equipment he can afford, while a Legionary in Legio VII Gemina in Leon will probably think it wiser to get bottom of the range equipment and put the rest of his kit allowance into his savings). There may however have been some kind of prohibition on Auxiliaries buying Lorica Segmentata since we know of zero depictions of them wearing it.
3 There may be an element of Propaganda/Media factoring into all of this. On Trajan's Column all Legionaries are depicted wearing Segmentata, and it has been argued it's simply an artistic license to allow the viewer to know "Aha these are the Legionaries!" rather than a strict depiction of reality.
I'm pretty sure segmentata has been found at Auxiliary fort locations though.
@@TheChiconspiracy If you have a link to any site reports I'd love to see them. As I said I've never seen any depictions (as in Roman made contemporary depictions) of them. Segmentata in Auxilliary Castra would be interesting but not conclusive (could've been left by Legionaries visiting or stored but not used for example) depending on the context.
But it would be great if there where finds because it would shed doubt on the (in my opinion slightly reaching) theory about one kind of armour being reserved for the Legions only. Something that never happened at any other time in Rome's History.
@@dernwine I'll try to find it. I share the opinion of some historians that the Adamclisi Tropaeum is a more accurate portrayal (which depicts mail as the majority armor for both legionaries and auxiliaries) that Trajan's column for a field army, since if soldiers have any say in their kit, they will reliably pick something that won't add significant maintenance time to an already exhausting daily schedule.
@@TheChiconspiracy I kind of agree with the maintenance aspect (How many soldiers will pick leather boots that require constant polishing over a more modern alternative these days?). But I think there must be something we are missing. After all the Segmentata was certainly used, just not as commonly perhaps as pop culture loves to tell us.
@@dernwine I've seen the suggestion they may have been used for parade ground type of duty while an army out in the field would use hamata almost exclusively.
Speaking from a purely lay perspective that long lace-up closure down the front of the belly seems unnecessarily vulnerable. Wouldn't separate ties for each segment make more sense, seems much less likely to have a catastrophic failure if a cord is cut. Is the style of closure shown in the video actually historical?
As a side project, I think this would be awesome to make out of HMWPE. People are making NIJ Lvl III ballistic armour out of it.
It should be able to stop a sword, and it "should" be lighter, but I dont k ow how thick it would need to be. You can crap on steel for being 'heavy' but even thin sheet metal does its job,
Invest in a film stabilizer. Will be very good! I would like to see him move a sword with his armor!
This was just filmed on my phone, as I didn't have my camera with me.
What kind of steel is that?
Segmentata were/are highly recyclable.
Meaning the majority were likely stripped and repurposed post fall leaving fewer examples than would have otherwise been in existence.
Gratias maximas
As far as I know it was the other way round, auxiliaries and lower class Roman citizens were provided with armour by the state which was mass produced in Fabricae. This would have been the Lorica Segmentata because it is cheaper to make and easier to produce. The more elite soldiers from honourable families with a history of military service would have inherited the more elaborate and expensive lorica Hamata from their fathers etc. E.g. legionaries of the first cohort, centurions etc.
The way it worked generally was the was an "Allowance" given to Roman Soldiers. Effectively when you signed up the state wouldn't give you a set of armour, instead they'd give you a bag of cash that they deemed an acceptable amount to spend on your equipment. It was then up to the soldier to get the armour he saw fit to buy. What you buy (or inherit) depends incredibly on your personal circumstances, where you are in the empire, etc etc. A Legionary tucked into a quiet spot would probably be happy to use his dads old armour and helmet, and keep that allowance as a retirement fund. Someone in an active unit on the Rhine or in Jerusalem will probably be willing to pay his entire allowance and then some to get the best armour he possibly can "No thanks Dad, your armour is a generation old by now, and god knows how well it'll hold up."
BTW Segmentata is much harder to make than Hamata. You can basically have a child apprentice make Hamata, the metallurgy is really simple and most of the work is just time consuming rather than skill based (also the parts are completely interchangeable). Segmentata needs to be made to fit from the word go, and the Metallurgy is much more complicated, construction and assembly requires a well trained and experienced smith.
This guy in the segmentata looks like Robert Downey Jr. And Keanu Reeves got their DNA crossed in a teleporter accident.
If it is from fabrica cacti shouldn't it be covered with spines?
The Lorica Segmentata, looks very well made, not as much brass like other replicas. Was that perhaps a status symbol within the Legionnaires? Thanks for the video!
Metatron mentioned that segmentata made a lot of noise. Maybe that's the reason romans used it for a rather short time. (Not understanding the centurio does not come handy when orders have to be given...) Just a thought of mine, not directly linked to the Video.
Worst of all, it's a nightmare to maintain compared to hamata.
I wonder if, given the ratio of segmentata to mail, that those wearing the former might have been in the front row of a cohort, soaking up the charge or something. Or maybe I’m overthinking it.
No, in fact the Auxillia were often deployed in front of the Legion to absorb or deal the first blows. Such troops were certainly professional soldiers, but would have had much more of the less expensive maille armor.
@@jeffreyroot7346 As a matter of fact, mail was much more expensive.
Lorica Segmenta turned up in the Kalkriese excavations, so it's probable that the legionaries wiped out in AD 9 were equipped with this.
"Walkreise" is almost certainly a mistake. It could be a misspelling of "Wahlkreise", meaning constituencies (or electorial districts if you will) or "Walk-Reise", meaning "Wlak-Travel", assuming that somebody with the surname "Walk" owns a travel firm in Germany.
The battle of 9 AD most likely took place near Kalkriese, a big rock (Riese = giant) of limestone (Kalk = lime) near Bramsche in Lower Saxony, Germany, although finds from 2016 and 2017 reopened the case again.
@@MrOpacor Thus the dangers of writing from memory!
Thanks. :)
why is it not common ?
hi matt sent you an e-mail via e.a.a regarding the leather sabre, not sure if you got to it yet.
This video makes me wonder why this type of amour felt out of usage in the medieval period... The Brigandine might be the most compareable amour in medieval europe but this amour appeared quite late. So was this among the lost knowlege after the fall of west rome or did steel evolve to be good enough to make better mail amour.
I would like to hear some thoughts on this, if you will.
Nice video as always
In my opinion the lorica segmentata felt out of use due to a lack of enemies that requiered the use of heavily armoured legions
Mat pointed out an archery video a few weeks ago. They shoot at chinese lamelar armour and with each shot deflected a strap is cut or a plate bent, even though most shots get neutralized. I imagine the same happens with the segmentata. Legions at the height of the empire could afford to refurbish armour between battles, and could afford high quality stuff. In the early republic Greeks, Carthaginians and Gauls kept Rome in the brink of collapse. In the migration period it was every man for himself. The fashion in armour is i.m.o. more about logistics than technology.
It's not like the knowledge was lost... even the west Romans were largely abandoning segmentata well before the fall, since mail protects nearly as well, and is far less labor intensive to maintain since you don't have to constantly replace the strips of leather or other cordage and individually polish each piece. Lamellar armor didn't vanish wholesale, it existed in both the Eastern Roman Empire (which would develop even better armor types) the Sassanians, and the Islamic forces that followed, but mail was always more popular for the reasons listed.
@@TheChiconspiracy Anyone who could afford mail did so.
Were greeks on par with this level of armor during the lorica segmentata times?
Greeks were Roman subjects during that time...
Why do we not see a return to segment armor in the later and middle ages?
There was, several brigandine armor types or "coat of plates" actually offered superior protection overall.The medieval Romans (Byzaintines) and a few others also attached plates over a coat of mail to offer excellent armor for their heavy infantry.
Because it wasn't all that good. That's why it was phased out to begin with. It remained great for limb protection. But for the torso lamellar offers a more rigid alternative to mail at a fraction of the cost.
That armour looks fairly effective esp. for its time! Nice!
(... and raises a question in my mind: With the concern about shankings on the street there, how come cops don't wear something like that? Beyond the fact that tourists would constantly pester them for pictures, I mean?)
They do? It's called a stab vest.
@@dernwine And it's chainmail and not segmented plates. Cuz you don't wanna be wearing this pain around.
@@majungasaurusaaaa ironically of course maille was around for much more of the roman empire than segmented plate
Did you know Roman soldiers served in the Navy ? They where called row men. I will see myself out now.
True and their oars were kept in brothels.
Shut up
seemed to me like something robots in movies would look like. all shiny, mobile and geometric.
the audio wasn't too quiet, kept it on the same volume and heard everything clearly.
Matt has a nice pair of ears
Its not accurate because its not slimming down around the belly area but it could be just not fitted properly. Metatron mentioned this.
It could also maybe be because he is a tiny bit on the chubby side. But the plates at the upper back do not overlap too... so idk
It seems as though he ordered it from another country, so the armorer was obviously not able to fit it to the individual.
@@mrgabest He said that he ordered it from Poland
@Michael Smith I was very hesitant to say that but I had no other way to word it lmao. I did say A TINY BIT though.
no roman gambesons?
There is a lightly padded garment (subarmalis) under the lorica.
There should be - the problem is that we don’t actually know what one would look like. There’s never been definitive sculptural evidence of a subarmalis, and we’ve not found a physical example either. Most reenactors will wear one though.
Matt "I did training for the BBC" Easton
S.P.Q.R.
4 people bear grudges against the Roman Empire for invading their land.
Lorica Segmentata!...
More like
Lorica Pixeltata.
Is it just me or does lorica segmentata kind of look made up? Like some kid in the 90s wanted to make fantasy armor but only had aluminum sheets?
Metatron: "Yeah well, I have about ten videos in which I already said all of that."
Shakey out of focus video and weak audio volume. Otherwise okay.
*_Asterix Est La!_*
ruclips.net/video/KwcXySby-3A/видео.html