Yes! Please expand on this kind of topic. As you said it was the core of warfare for a long period of time, yet it is often neglected often just a sidenote before people begin starting to talk about those fancy swords.
@@iopklmification I'm not sure but isn't native americans used stone, bone and wood weapon without common usage of metalls? Ofcourse this 3 materials are good enough for spears, but adding a metall gives you the veriety of polearms to focus on, including many interesting spears.
@@barebius No. They had Macuahuitls in what is now Mexico and Central America which fulfilled the roles of one handed and two handed swords. They also had spear variants called a tepoztopilli, which is very much like a hewing spear (as far as we can tell given iconography and its shape). This could, much like metal spears, pierce mail according to Spanish accounts (they were also very impressed by the Macuahuitl). Here is the citation for piercing armor: "the whole ground was immediately covered with heaps of lances, whose points were provided with two edges, so very sharp that they pierced through every species of cuirass, and were particularly dangerous to the lower part of the body, which was in no way protected." archive.org/stream/memoirsofconquis01dauoft/memoirsofconquis01dauoft_djvu.txt and also "I myself received a heavy thrust from a lance, which completely pierced my armour, and I should certainly have lost my life on the spot if my cuirass had not been strongly quilted with cotton. Thus[Pg 190] I fortunately escaped with only a slight wound, and with my jacket considerably torn" in vol 2 www.gutenberg.org/files/32475/32475-h/32475-h.htm There was also some copper and bronze working (the same source mentions making copper spears), and the Inka used some bronze blades in addition to a kind of mace weaponry.
@@chaos_omega Bronze requires Tin, which is a rather rare metal. For example, a lot of Tin in the European Bronze age came from the Tin mines of Cornwall. Going from Copper to Bronze is not exactly a straight forward path unless Tin is readily available.
'Oh. Yeah swords are so cool and awesome and blah blah blah' Eveyone had a spear, not everyone had a sword. (I'm generally generalizing and in generally right)
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz You are generalizing a bit but not by much, you are most certainly right. One of the reason besides coolness for the cult of the Sword in literature and movies is because it became an aristocratic weapon, given the fact that you need training with it to be proficient at it, a luxury that a poor peasant (or any not professional warrior for that matter) would not have.
@@chestfullosixes5808 The spear is the greatest killing weapon in history. By the way I found ironic that this short 20 minute video contains probably more information, that many poor peasant levies ever received before going to battle in real life.
@@marlonbryanmunoznunez3179 Mmm also we need to keep in mind the spear was also a hunting tool used by the lower classes to fish and kill game. So peasants may of been somewhat proficient with the spear.
The most effective method of switching grip is as follows. Step 1.) insert weapon into opponent. Step 2.) Adjust grip as necessary. Step 3.) Remove weapon from opponent. Very simple.
There is a Different Method Ceep by Grip Change the Spear Betwen Midle Finger And Triger Finger and Keep the Point Forward and youse mostly the Finger To Change .
12:48 - 12:58 animated gif anyone? As for the best way to switch grip, if movies have taught me anything it's that you don't need to fight in close formations as everyone pairs off for 1 on 1 duels and you might as well twirl the spear in wide, slow movements as your opponent(s) will wait politely for you to finish before attacking.
In formation I am thinking you may have just stuck to the overhand, as even his tossing up and down method would likely hit the next guy or shield. Also the limits imposed by your sheild are increased by having another person beside you with a sheild, especially in a sheild wall.
Nice video Matt. You and others might be interested in Christopher Matthew's "A Storm of Spears: Understanding the Greek Hoplite at War" (Kindle version is $11 US). It extensively discusses the grips seen in Greek art. It turns out the overhead grip is predominately used on shorter spears than the Hoplite spear. The hoplite used the spear in the underarm position and the low position. The low position is one handed from below the shield essentially (as mentioned in at least one other comment). Also the spear you used would not be used by a Hoplite (at least usually) . The hoplite used a spear of your length with a counterweight on the back end. The counterweight put the balance point much further towards the back. The book also discusses various stances used. Also the findings of Australian re-enactors are discussed for massed spears. Matthews also has the book "An Invincible Beast" that discusses the use of the even longer Sarissa with a small shield. I have just started the book but it looks to be written as a detailed account of the phalangist's panoply and methodology. Kindle version $13 US.
@@niemandkeiner8057 ? I am just quoting a well researched book with a ton of references to historical and archeological data. Have not finished 2nd book but it is as well documented.
Thanks for the video. Love seeing a full sized spear on screen, that's pretty rare. It strikes me how ancient and universal (mostly determined by body mechanics) this stuff is. I think I've seen every movement you demonstrated here in traditional chinese staff forms (derived from spear.)
I guess a major difference in Asian spear styles is that it was rare to use a shield alongside it, so the weapon was far more versatile - in two hands (albeit, bows etc would have been more effective too)
@@MrVelociraptor75 That's a major difference in the surviving styles, because they're generally oriented towards dueling or very small group engagements rather than big battles in big groups. There's a similar bias in the west if you confine yourself to the proper written sources as they're mostly very late term and oriented towards fencing schools. The Japanese and the Chinese both used shields in earlier times though, just like Europeans and Africans. The Japanese shields evolved in two directions - shields that were driven into the ground to form temporary fortifications (similar to a European pavise) and those that became parts of the armor (similar to many of the finer bits on late period European plate.) So in late period 'Shogun' settings there are either no traditional shields at all, or maybe there are some but it's only the poorest troops using them so nobody bothers to paint them or write about them. In China, shields must have survived very late - probably up until firearms became popular. But the only surviving forms I am aware of presume extremely tiny shields, remnants that a gentleman might carry underneath his robe without arousing suspicion. Chinese martial arts; with as much fantasy and wishful thinking as it may have; nonetheless has a fundamental orientation towards what works. And a typical medium or larger sized shield works really well against most arrows, bolts, quarrels, or stones. It even works pretty well against bullets from slings or very early blackpowder weapons (given a bit of range) depending on the construction. But once semi-modern firearms started showing up on a fairly regular basis they were right out. Cheers!
Interestingly, many of the specific moves in Maori spear-based martial art are also identically included in aikido - at least, the art I trained in matched (move for move) the staff moves my brother had with his black belt. It was fascinating to discuss with him the body mechanics involved, and how they worked the same. Would not surprise me to discover more overlap with other styles around the world, either.
Hi, I wrote at university about greek warfare. I made an experiment and beside that, we made a try how you can change the spear position. How can I send this to you?
If you're holding the spear at hip hight with your knuckles facing outwards, the spear can be lifted to overarm by lifting your forearm so that you are now holding the spear at head hight with your knuckles facing inwards. To change to a 'knuckles out' out grip, release your finger grip and twist your wrist whilst supporting the shaft with your thumb - you're still losing your grip on the spear but for much less time and retaining contact with your thumb underneath the shaft which should significantly minimise the chances of fumbling.
That's what I'd do. If I break it down slowly, I switch my thumb from outside to inside before switching my finger positron, you barely feel like you are releasing your grip at all. You can quickly turn the whole action into a fluid motion.
Thanks for these videos Matt. These are great. Personally I switch spear grips very similar to you throwing the spear upwards (we use shorter spears like you mentioned though). There is just a small difference to make the flight path more predictable and in doing so the switch from overarm to underarm a lot easier: 1.) Throw the spear out for a long reach thrust and grip the butt, so to speak. 2.) Pull it back in an upward motion and switch grip mid-flight. Since the spear travels fairly linear on a path, where the shaft is also on, it should get way easier. I hope, this helps. Since there is practice this evening, I'll try to record it on video. Cheers and keep it up!
Great video. The spear is a fantastic weapon and is usually my first weapon until it is time to close in. I use twirling quite a bit in duels but almost always the launching method in formations. Once my spear was knocked away while launching so it is a bit risky but a shield bash and a quick draw of my axe saved the day.
Very well done. Having trained with the spear a lot I was taught that less flailing about with it is the best. As you pointed out bringing your point off line leaves you open to your opponent stepping up and hitting you
Love spears. Would like to see a episode on different types. Fighting vrs hunting etc. Have hunted a few times with my spear ( have 2) and have found them very effective. Extremely clean kills every time. Ether used thrown or trusted, both on deer and bear. But yes I'm rambling. A video on types of spears would be awesome, and how they changed over time.
Matt, I think that a spear used with shield normally would have buttspike. Here is why: 1. It changes the balance further back, closer at the hand, making the point nimblier, kind like a rapier. 2. If the head broke off or bend, you can buttspike instead. 3. Can be used to kill fallen enemies as you march over them (greek did it) 4. Can be used defensively, if someone comes from behind, or if the head get knocked to the side as a counter-attack. This is very useful against multiple opponents, as they will try to surround you. 5. The buttspike protects the other end making it harder for the shaft to split at the end. 6. Can be used to stick a spear on the ground, so you can free your hand temporarily. 7. A buttstrike thrust with the buttspike will add a LOAD of context in your video, Matt! Please Matt, make a video on it!
It seems to me that the only real reason for a buttspike is your #1, that is it changes the balance point. All the rest are side benefits, for the most part. One comment, though. A counterbalance does not make the point nimbler. Actually, it makes it more sluggish, because it increases the angular momentum of the weapon. Since you always grip a spear at or near its balance point, adding weight to any end will make the weapon slower. It doesn't work like that with swords, because you don't grip them at the point of balance, so adding weight can make them nimbler by virtue of moving the balance point closer to the grip.
I used to be of the opinion that underhand grip was best for spears, thinking it was more versatile. However, Thrand's video on the subject convinced me that the overhand method was better in most situations.
I'm sure someone else posted this already but Thrand did a video on this topic of changing grip. Very happy to get your view of this topic. Thank you Matt! Keep up the good work. Cheers!
Hi Matt, with a spear in two hands, the best method is sliding forward, as you've shown, but there is another for when you can't, that is still narrow spaced: I slide the back hand to meet the leading one in the middle, I change just over the point, like in sabre, then the former leading hand goes back as I change profile. If you want, I can make a response video, just need some time to do it.
I. Love. This video. When I do anything spear in reenactment one-handed, I do something largely identical to the 'toss' method. Except, I don't really toss it. I loosen my grip as much as possible, down to about two fingers - my middle finger and my thumb. Then I accelerate the weapon upwards to offset motion via gravity as much as possible. Finally I release the middle finger so I can worm all of my hand around the shaft - using the thumb as a guide and cradle - so I can reseal my grip as quickly as possible. This enables me to maintain my point /mostly/ on line, and - most importantly - it reduces the amount of time my weapon has no point of mechanical leverage at any given time. It has the same drawbacks as the 'toss', but I feel it's a highly streamlined, and less vulnerable form. The same issue of 'messing up' is still a factor, but it's not a factor of 'catching', as much as it is finger-dexterity and flagging grip. I see this as less of an issue, but I could easily be wrong. EDIT: This is identical to what Matt does at 19:23. Just practiced and done to my preference.
I think something that you didn't mention in this video that is quite important for context as to how you would move your spear is something like pike formations, where not just the first line of soldiers would be fighting. You'd have successive lines all with their spears forward making it an even tighter space for maneuvering your spear.
I feel like sarissas are much more limited in the way they can be effectively handled. Just their sheer size and weight alone makes handling difficult. Also a spear is an individual weapon (that can be used in formation) while a sarissa is more of a unit weapon only. I'm pretty sure nobody would've ever picked a sarissa for a duel. I'm not a scholar or historian btw, this is just my opinion.
@@michaelfranciotti3900 I'm actually astounded that they even worked so well in formation. I think the relative lack of armor of the time period explains it more than anything. Only a helmet, linothorax, and greaves? Just poke 'til you hear screaming, hoplite. Here's a shield.
@@michaelfranciotti3900 I'm just curious about the specifics of how you would hold it for maximum efficiency and without getting tired. In other words it would come down to precise placement of every body part for my interests. (I'm actually going to be doing a sculpt of a Sarissai in the future so I need the most accurate pose as possible)
@@DragonTigerBoss I was reading about the Sarissai and apparently there is debate as to if they even had the Linothorax. If that is true I wonder if it is for the same reason they had smaller and less convex shields...
One of your finest videos please do more! It has advice and tutorials it has history and i especially loved the fact that it was in nature,it looked so right and pleasant. Now as a Greek and a spear fanatic i do tend to believe more on the underarm use since i do not understand if one were to use it over arm then why not have a significant counterweight at the end (nothing fancy just a blob of steel) and take full advantage of the length. I just find the idea that in a massed formation with such long weapons only the first and marginally the second line used them wasteful.
At some point the spear becomes too heavy to be able to use one handed. So, you want to be careful with the counter weight. Plus, a counter weight is not always necessary. A longer spear, like the one you see in this video, has a lot of counterweight already and is already at the limit of what you can wield one handed. There were moments in history where spears had been used by just more than the first and second line at the same time. It was done with pike formations in the ancient times and later again it was done from the late medieval period until the 18th century. It took a lot of training and effort to get it right. So, I'm guessing that's why it was not done for most of history. You say you are a Greek spear fanatic, so you should know from the ancient Greeks that it's practically impossible to use spears underarm in a formation containing shields. That's why I don't understand why you say "you believe more" on the underarm. Like Matt always says in his videos: context is important. Underarm has its uses, it's great for one on one or in formations that contain no shields, but it's horrible in formations with shields, which is what the most common type of formations were throughout history.
@@AleksandrKramarenko Of course i know about the pike formations. As it applies to the counterweight i did not mean it on this 2.7 m spear but more on the 2m hoplite spear by having the counterweight you do not need this 1m long protrusion on the end which even overhanded would still hit sometimes with the second lines spear. The fact that you see in ancient vases 70% of the time overhand use does not necessarily mean it was the case ,on the same vases you see them riding dolphins to battle. And on most of those vases you see dueling in which the overarm makes more sense for the throw. As it regards actual battles,we do not have any treatises so we DO NOT know how they did it,you may be wrong i may be wrong. But i do believe they were practical men and would have seen a better tactic than wasting half the spear overarm. Tactic like possibly first 2 rows underarm for extra reach (u can use underarm the shields are circular)and next 2 or 1 overarm to protect the first rank when the enemy came close so their shorter range would be an issue. If now like Mat you propose than underarm you cant inflict damage to the enemy due to their shields ,to that i retort then how did the pikemen (using it two handed but in the height same as with underarm use)deal damage and win the hoplites in many battles?
@@michaelfurgessons2896 I agree about the size and counter weight. The spear in Matt's video seems a bit too long for one handed use. Know that I'm strictly talking about "regular" spears used with shields, not pikes. Pikes are used quite differently, after all, and I agree with you on pikes. We may not have any treaty describing spear use in formations, but we have people who've tried it out. Here are some problems they point out with the underhand grip in a formation: 1. You can only attack to the front and somewhat awkwardly to the right because you have little space to move the spear left and right. 2. You cannot attack an enemy that moves past your tip because there's no space to move your spear far back in an emergency. 3. Your enemy can constantly see your spear sticking out and can therefore plan and manipulate it more easily. 4. You are holding a long stick at its end, allowing the enemy to easily push it aside (it's like a long lever). You said that with the overarm grip you waste half of the spear. Overarm might not get as much reach as with underarm, but you can get almost as much. You semi-throw the spear, catching it, then semi-throw it back to the ready position. That way, you can then also put a lot more force into it compared to underarm, which is important for piercing armor. You can attack left and right easily, which is important because in formation fighting it's how you get the most openings. If the enemy moves close, you can still attack him up close with the regular stabbing attack. The enemy doesn't know where you are going to attack because your spear is held back in the ready position. The enemy cannot as easily push your spear away because your spear only comes in his range when you make a thrust. There are also many other small things. Check out the following two videos: On Scholagladiatoria: "Spear and shield - overarm vs underarm" On ThegnThrand: "Overarm Vs. Underarm Spear in Greek / Spartan Phalanx : Thrand's Spear Sliding Style Tested" They point out how both grips are affected by formation fighting.
9 foot = 2,75 meters I use a 225 cm spear every sunday, your spear definetly doen't have only 2,50 meters, Matt. Cheers man. Loved your video. Very needy these days. Not much videos on spear and kite shields (amazing combination tho, I use kite shields always).
Two thoughts of mine to add: I (rarely, not regularely) do some spear-and-shield sparring. First one: For switching underarm to overarm, I do prefer the version you showed the first, like a little throw - but with one tiny but important difference: I keep touch between fingertips and shaft, to minimize the danger of losing the weapon. However, the second can be exploited by the enemy to disarm you, plus, the other way round, switching overarm to underarm grip, is more dangerous not just because of the acceleration effect you mentioned but also because you do not get a second chance to grip the weapon if you failed. That you get when changing underarm to overarm. Second one: I remember illustrations (I can't find them right now, and due to lack of equipment never tried myself) where several cultures - I especially remember a picture of some african warriors maybe zulu? - using spears in combination with an underarm-strapped shield, gripped directly behind the rim of a shield with concave sides, which allowed the warriors to trade a bit of awkward usage of the shield for slightly limited two handed use. I'd love to hear or read more of that, seemed quite useful to me.
I can't express how glad i am to see someone else using a 9 foot spear in one hand! There seems to be a prevalent idea among reenactors i know, that such a size could only be managed in two hands. I think a mix of poor and heavy reproductions may be to blame. To add my 2 cents to the switching hands matter, I've used a long spear single handed in reenactment combat, so with multiple opponents, for probably 12 years or so now. I almost always use the throw and catch, even while running and changing direction I've not had a significant fumble beyond the first few months of training. The retained threat is indeed one of the key advantages i find with this. However I have still picked up some of the wider motions to change hands, exclusively i find them useful for crowd control of inexperienced fighters; Something long and fast moving near them will instinctively make them back away if only momentarily, lending me the distance i needed to choose who to fight.
I loved the video! And yes, please, more of this! As another person said, polearms do not get the attention that they deserve and they had historically!
Very interesting. One understand why the spear ruled the battlefield for thousands of years. Relativly cheap and simple to produce and at the same time quite easy to learn.
For most of the viewers of this channel this might sound ridicolous, but as someone who watches mr Easton to learn about weapons, history and so on, I was actually quite suprised at how very tall spears are. I knew, of course, in theory, that they were quite tall, but I have never seen it in person. Hell; that is about two Eastons.
Thanks for that video, i'm highly interested in spear fighting and i love every second of content i can get my hands on as there is not much of it to be found
Consider delivering a spear thrusts over the top of the shield wall. Your grip is overhand, and your arm and shoulder are the only exposed targets as you thrust. As you withdraw your spear with the triceps and shoulder, consider allowing the momentum of the spear to act as the bracing object (like the ground, shield, hand, or shoulder might ), and so, deftly, release the spear, drawing it until the grip is at least center-staffed. The motion of the arm ought to mimick the locomotion required to bring the fully-raised right hand (palm up, fingers pointing left), to a position where the arm forms acute angles between it's segments, and with the side of the torso, with the palm raised and the fingers pointing to the right (as if carrying a serving tray). This technique would allow a spearman to attack from a defended extension, withdraw from the created space into a strong counterattacking stance, and adjust the grip from the deeper overhand position (favored for the bracing ability of the forearm) to the more advanced underhand position (ideal for throwing or punching deep into armor with greater leverage). I believe this is one example of many such movements which would blend attack, defense, feint, and adjustment actions into a single practice, and thus, martial art.
From what I've read about the Zulus, they favored an underhand grip with their short-handled spears, which were used with large cowhide shields. Likewise, according to Richard Meinertzhagen, the Maasai held their spears underhand (again with large cowhide or buffalo hide shields) during a surprise night attack on a Kikuyu village.
I appreciate the guy talking about the most deadly weapons for hundreds of years talking about getting an "ouchie". Joking aside, another great video. Thanks
So I was just messing around with a long stick I have and I think I've figured out a method for switching safely from underarm to overarm grip and back fairly quickly that could work in a narrow space as long as the spear is not too thick or heavy (which a javelin or throwing spear probably will be) and you have good finger dexterity. Step 1: From underarm, release the grip of your last two fingers so that you're holding the spear with only your thumb, pointer and middle finger Step 2: Slide your ring and pinky to the other side of the shaft Step 3: Raise the spear and your hand up so that the spear is resting on your palm and in between your fingers like you're holding the spear with a flattened "Vulcan salute." Step 4: Slide your pointer and middle finger to the other side of the shaft and readjust to overarm grip The reverse of this can also be done to go from overarm to underarm too and it has a very low chance of fumbling compared to the "toss" method with enough practice.
Hiya Matt, I think battlefield psychology of a sort was one of the biggest determinate of this kind of thing. Training and conditioning are big factors of course, but I think even trained soldiers would probably favour techniques that keep them safe first and threaten second. Among the relative commotion of the forward line, where two sides thrust and slash at each other en mass an individual soldier would probably pick their moment to shift stance or grip in the safest possible way, perhaps even nesting themselves a step back into their rank for further protection. Sweaty hands, fatigue, fear and jostling only increase the risk factor of any movement that removes the weapon from hand. As a result I'm inclined to believe that soldiers on the hot spots of the line would not risk loss of grip on their weapon and would instead hide behind their shields, exchange grip with greater safety, trust in the relative noise of combat to conceal their intentions and then re-engage as a threat using their alternate grip. I think self preservation motivations like this, where each individual favours their own survival over ultimate offensive efficiency, probably gives us insight into why casualties before one force fled the field were relatively low and maybe even why units break under pressure. If you loose grip on your weapon and drop it the enemy may press your position in the line making you the focus of the attack - which will of course come from multiple angles. You may be unable to retrieve your weapon (the opposition may trap it or even steal it away) and then you or those around you may panic or even break under pressure. Something simple like retrieving a replacement weapon from the ranks behind you, may become much more difficult in these kinds of kinetic situations and even if you win the encounter your fellows may turn to you and pressure you to not risk such a move again - your risking their safety as well as your own after all. Just my initial thoughts and obviously no one can know for sure of course - it was likely all extremely situational.
Hi ! I don't know if you had solve the problem of the changing grip underarm or overarm but, practicing spear in HEMA, with gloves, I change my grip the way you change yours at 1:34, when you put your spear under your armpit. It's the most secure way I found and it's quick when you're trained.
For later periods, with a double handed polearm: When you grab with the leading hand from above, it looks and feels a little awkward at first, but if you try it, you realize that you do not really loose much mobility or force, especially not in close formation, but you are lightning quick in an overarm position by simply raising both hands, without ever loosing the point on the enemy. The resulting position very much resembles the "ox" or "hanging ort" from swordfencing, and is excellent for blocking/parrying, especially against chopping polearms. Additionally, you might feel like exposing more of your leading hand, but it is the part that is much easier to armor, and your wrist and fingertips are a lot better protected. I tried it once and very much feel like sticking with it. With that grip, you also have a lot of downward and sideways force from the underarm, and a lot of leverage for a very powerful upward strike from the overarm position.
For one-handed, switching from underarm to overarm, you can just keep the thumb forward, without changing hand grip. Compared to overarm with thumb to the rear, you loose a little thrusting power as well as the option to throw, but you have a bit better tip control and maintain more options for parries (example: rightward wrapping drop parry followed by an underarm counter thrust). You also lose a little bit of mobility towards your right, but that's your buddy's sector (when in rank formation), or you can just drop back to underarm (without any threat of losing grip) for thrusts that need to be aimed more to the right.
You should praktice as many ways to change grip as possible, so that you re able to perform them all - depending on the situation. I like your way of explaining !
Wow, this is great content. I would like to know more about spears, could you make a series about polearms? It would be awesome! Thanks for the channel by the way, you guys make a lot of interesting videos.
2 Handed, it's important to discuss when, and why you want to switch hands. In a built up area with a lot of cover, or just trees, you can use them as cover, instead of a shield. Especially defensively, I've done this spear-hunting feral hogs (With a Boar Spear) Obviously, you want your forward shoulder on the side with the tree, corner, wall, or what have you. So, you have relatively free motion around it, and should you have to fall back, the spear can follow you, still pointed at the enemy as they come around. (This is why they had staircases set up to turn to the left going up, and the right going down, to benefit the defender, not the attacker.) Just as with a rifle shoulder transition.
Very nice analysis! Enjoyed and love to see more! Staves/spears are my favorite weapons to use, though I am more familiar with Asian variants i.e. bo and naginata. One can certainly discuss at length the all-important grips and transitions. I do not have much personal experience with spear and shield, but grip changing is something any martial artist should practice. I think you have the right of a single-hand change, Matt: toss and catch. The only thing I might do differently is something you touch on later in the video. Rather than pivoting around the thumb or back of hand, however, I would maintain pivot contact with the palm. This achieves the speed of "toss and catch" (being the same relative motion) while maintaining better control as the shaft doesn't leave your hand. And nothing wrong with twirling :) Twirling is good for practicing control and balance of a weapon, but it's like juggling in football/soccer... Do it off the field. As for changing with two hands, I perform an Okinawan bo kata that has a thrust change exactly as you describe it, so I can confirm the utility and benefits of it. Its one issue is extreme off-balance during the thrust. If the thrust is knocked away, then one must use that energy to swing back into a functional position. Hence, it's very vulnerable if the thrust goes amiss. For karateka, that's not much of an issue as we're using both ends of the weapon. But a spear's head is the point of the weapon, pun intended of course, so it seems like having it knocked off line is a bigger issue. As slow as that moulinet change feels, it also seems like the safer option. Your point goes off line, but the potential parry of a moulinet yields a stronger change than the riskier thrust. Better to accept the point going off line than risk having the weapon knocked out of your hands. Then again, most techniques I practice do not take into account the tighter formations indicated by historical European sources, so I defer to your analysis in that context. In the end, if one's spear does get knocked away, then it's time to fall back to the most magical of secondary weapons: the sword! Your videos are always informative, but I particularly enjoyed this one! Cheers!
Hey Matt, one thing that can add to the advantage of "overhead" style is that you "throw the spear" downward into an enemy that is close. Though the difference is that the spear is still retrievable, controlled, and only leaves your hand a little ways. Thegnthrand has played at that idea of casting the spear. However, you should watch some boar spearing videos where dudes spear immediately close hogs by throwing the spear downwards a meter in front of them. I'm referring to the African style of throwing spear in modern recreation, rather than the traditional boar spear. Very different scenario in a person to person combat, but there might be a similarity.
For the two handed spear, I'm a fan of a behind the back pass. Now I use a wushu spear, nine foot and made from oak, and I use a behind the back pass to swap sides, taking one hand off the spear, passing the spear behind my back, grabbing it again with the hand I took off, then replacing the hand it was in. Useful for multiple opponents, as it also lets you quickly adjust your line to a new direction, if you need to. The downside, is that it's flashy as heck, and not as fast. But in a one on many situation, it shines.
You mentioned the idea of passing spears forward towards the front line. This had me thinking. If the enemy advanced into you it might be a good idea to have an underhand grip for ease of bracing. Once the enemy is fully engaged the front line could reach up and receive fresh spears from the lines behind them which I believe should be more naturally handed to them in an over hand grip. Also underhand grip makes sense if the spear is held at the base, but in shield to shield it would then make sense for the spear to be short and not 9 feet.
Having watched Tods video on throwing with a string - it would be interesting to see how a fixed leather string would work out in a battle. Ie, if you have an owerhand gripp, you could potentialy throw it with force, in combat, and use the string both for sped and force, aswell as for snatching the spear back, and not loosing the weapon neadless. Interesting take on the mather Matt.
On switching from an under to overhand grip, it's a bit hard to explain but try starting with your weapon arm extended then perform a switch as you pull the weapon and your hand back and up. You'll naturally find it easier and quicker to roll the weapon in your grip.
the safest and efficient way i found for myselfis tis: to switch from thumb-to-point to overhead I lift the spear up, open my palm and rotate the palm beneath the shaft without moving the shaft itself. the motion is quite tricky to perform but with some training it works well even while wearing a gauntlet but there is also a way to work the spear in overhead position without rotating the hand, in thumb-to-point grip. that is a bit awkward but if you only need to make two-three blows or you are crouded - it may work
I like to use 2 handed spears with the left hand forward because I like to be able to use some quaterstaff techniques if needed/possible, I learned Meyer's system so right hand on the bottom.
I always thought it was weird that Lindybeige advocated against overarm use, but the formation and throwing arguments as well as just gravit doing your work for you convince me that the ancient depictions arent unrealistic
The use of a lanyard or ankyle was a very important spear accessory, supposedly seeing use in ancient greek times and the viking era. A lanyard would avoid the risk of dropping the spear, while additionally acting as a throwing string, if one needed to use the spear as a missile weapon, allowing for an increase in mechanical advantage while throwing, almost like a swiss-dart. Also, the overhand grip allows the spear to be brought completely over to the shield side, and action that would be blocked by the shaft while being held underhand
You can still maintain the same grip while just raising it above your head to deliver an overhead spear thrust. Your knuckles would be facing skyward, you can then maintain a lower grip on the spear and use it to thrust over shields or at targets in the 2nd line. This wouldn't be switching to an overhead grip exactly, but would allow you to perform an overhead thrust without changing grips or stance.
I agree with your point that one handed spears were mainly used overhand. Being in formation, the opponent having shields, their feet further away, all work against underhanded grip. I also think gravity helps add to the force from the overhand grip. And your point about being able to throw it. I think modern spear users don't practice in a formation, which is why they use underhanded grip. The only thing the underhand grip offers is comfort for spoiled moderns. :D
For a large strapped shield, would a notch at the top center facilitate a sort of 2 handed use of the spear allowing for a longer spear or longer reach in the overarm grip?
4:29 First of all, they used both, but predominantly on the March, they held it butt down. As you are there. You quickly flipped it up to point forward, over-arm, but I believe (This is conjecture) they would tend to point it up, under arm against Cavalry, and possibly fighting uphill. Overarm on level ground against other Shields to stab over them. Another point: If they have shields, it's much easier to stab over them, then around them. If the enemy is any good at using a shield.
You can move from the under arm position to up high without changing grip if you angle your body a bit more sideways at the same time. A quick tryout with a stick and it feels you can stab quite hard and accurately from this position, although in a more restricted angle. While you'd be giving up the option to throw, you'd gain the possibility to threaten from high position without fiddling with the stick and loosing grip. Something to consider.
For one handed shield wall use, what if you kept the same underhand grip but just lifted the spear above your head and turned so that your torso was more at a diagonal with your target?
Very interesting video and a lot of food for thought. So here's my 10 cents worth: For most of the "Spear and Shield" period, if we can use such a term, individual warriors, (NOT soldiers); ie Greek Hoplites as opposed to Roman Imperial Legionaries, were, if they were trained at all, were trained in group drill rather than individual weapon handling. There are a lot of Greek sources stating that individual weapon skills, (Hoplomachia), were useless in a Phalanx (Which is just another term for a shield wall), and only became useful when one Phalanx had broken and the pursuit had begun. In which case the battle's won anyway. For my money, the Greeks- the main area of my interest- used the underhand grip when advancing towards the enemy, in open order, with a pace between files, then, at mayby 100 yards away from the enemy, closing up to Synapsis, by bringing the back half of each file down into the gaps, giving about two feet frontage per man, a shield overlap and, if they'd started at 8-deep in open order, 4 deep in close order. Hellenistic drill manuals back this up. At the same time, switching the grip to the thumb-to-the-rear, overhead grip, allowing thrusts over the shields of the enemy and letting the next ranks jab as well, especially as the ranks compacted in the Othismos.
I actually gave this quite a bit of thought. Body mechanics only work in so many ways. And I have came up with. When using a spear with a shield in combat. I think it would be easier to use the underhanging grip. Above and below the Shoulder line for thrusting. The transitions above the shoulder line And below the shoulder line are seamless. And there is Great-Power and reach with over the shoulder line thrusts and below the shoulder line thrust. The fascinating thing is the Grip placement does not change unless you are going to throw it. And it seems that accuracy of the thrust is enhanced .Because the thumb points at the target. In both positions
could another advantage of overarm grip be that it is harder for opponents to bind/lock/seize the spear? it seems like in the underarm grip it would be much easier to knock the point off line w/a beating attack or perhaps a parry with a shield rim.
So first of all im not a Expert. I learned about how to use a spear (with shield )by fighting different wepon fightingClubs (HEMA , Kendo, Hambo-jutzu, Eskrima) and getting my a** kicked until i was better because ther are no spear and shield groups. Normaly i go only for the lower grip bacause i only do 1v1s but if im getting chased in the corner or a Wall and cant get out effectivly forcing me to go in the overgrip I extend my shield arm to the Opponent with a 45° angel . Make a small sidestep to my right( my spear-arm) and using the uptoss If i can change back I extend my shield to the Opponent ( flat) Get my Spear to show the Opposit way of the Opponent ( showing my shield side of my body ) and trowing it down caching it with my armpit und Hand Super cool Video i Love Spear und Shield and Love to See Part 2
How To Use A Spear, Part 0 - _Grasping the Context_
Getting a handle on things.
Working that thick, meaty shaft.
Get to the point
Part 9 - Polishing the Head
Working the shaft
Yes! Please expand on this kind of topic. As you said it was the core of warfare for a long period of time, yet it is often neglected often just a sidenote before people begin starting to talk about those fancy swords.
I'm writing a "fantasy" novel where the technology level is basically pre-colonization America just so I can focus on spears and their usage ;)
@@iopklmification I'm not sure but isn't native americans used stone, bone and wood weapon without common usage of metalls? Ofcourse this 3 materials are good enough for spears, but adding a metall gives you the veriety of polearms to focus on, including many interesting spears.
@@barebius I think some cultures were working copper before the Spanish arrived. Bronze was probably not far behind.
@@barebius No. They had Macuahuitls in what is now Mexico and Central America which fulfilled the roles of one handed and two handed swords. They also had spear variants called a tepoztopilli, which is very much like a hewing spear (as far as we can tell given iconography and its shape).
This could, much like metal spears, pierce mail according to Spanish accounts (they were also very impressed by the Macuahuitl).
Here is the citation for piercing armor:
"the whole ground was immediately covered with heaps of
lances, whose points were provided with two edges, so very sharp that
they pierced through every species of cuirass, and were particularly
dangerous to the lower part of the body, which was in no way protected."
archive.org/stream/memoirsofconquis01dauoft/memoirsofconquis01dauoft_djvu.txt
and also
"I myself received a heavy thrust from a lance, which completely pierced my armour, and I should certainly have lost my life on the spot if my cuirass had not been strongly quilted with cotton. Thus[Pg 190] I fortunately escaped with only a slight wound, and with my jacket considerably torn"
in vol 2 www.gutenberg.org/files/32475/32475-h/32475-h.htm
There was also some copper and bronze working (the same source mentions making copper spears), and the Inka used some bronze blades in addition to a kind of mace weaponry.
@@chaos_omega Bronze requires Tin, which is a rather rare metal. For example, a lot of Tin in the European Bronze age came from the Tin mines of Cornwall. Going from Copper to Bronze is not exactly a straight forward path unless Tin is readily available.
Please make parts 2-100! Spears do not get enough attention for the amount they were used historically!
'Oh. Yeah swords are so cool and awesome and blah blah blah'
Eveyone had a spear, not everyone had a sword. (I'm generally generalizing and in generally right)
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz You are generalizing a bit but not by much, you are most certainly right.
One of the reason besides coolness for the cult of the Sword in literature and movies is because it became an aristocratic weapon, given the fact that you need training with it to be proficient at it, a luxury that a poor peasant (or any not professional warrior for that matter) would not have.
Yes I agree. The spear is a symbol of the ancient world wars across the globe !
@@chestfullosixes5808 The spear is the greatest killing weapon in history.
By the way I found ironic that this short 20 minute video contains probably more information, that many poor peasant levies ever received before going to battle in real life.
@@marlonbryanmunoznunez3179
Mmm also we need to keep in mind the spear was also a hunting tool used by the lower classes to fish and kill game. So peasants may of been somewhat proficient with the spear.
Matt's new ASMR shaft rubbing noises concept seems to be going well
ASMR Darling needs to get in on that
The most effective method of switching grip is as follows. Step 1.) insert weapon into opponent. Step 2.) Adjust grip as necessary. Step 3.) Remove weapon from opponent. Very simple.
There is a Different Method
Ceep by Grip Change the Spear Betwen Midle Finger And Triger Finger and Keep the Point Forward and youse mostly the Finger To Change .
@@killerkraut9179 wHY sO MAnY CAPitaL LETteRS.?,?,
@@WozWozEre We Krauts learn to write every Noun with a capital Letter, that's how our Language works. Well, it's too many nontheless...
@@rumpelstilzz Ironically, Killer kraut fails to capitalise "kraut" in his own user name.
4) repeat as necessary
"You reach to the butt, push forward, slide back" - Matt Easton 2019
but make sure that you have smooth shaft.
eminently quotable
"You know where the Butt is, reach for the Butt"
"If you are about to do it, reach for the butt"
Be careful, your opponent might try to grab your shaft.
12:48 - 12:58 animated gif anyone? As for the best way to switch grip, if movies have taught me anything it's that you don't need to fight in close formations as everyone pairs off for 1 on 1 duels and you might as well twirl the spear in wide, slow movements as your opponent(s) will wait politely for you to finish before attacking.
The flashier you can be, the more plot armour the writers will give you.
Oooh but the splinters...
The spear is my favorite weapon, so I am very interested.
Mine too
In formation I am thinking you may have just stuck to the overhand, as even his tossing up and down method would likely hit the next guy or shield. Also the limits imposed by your sheild are increased by having another person beside you with a sheild, especially in a sheild wall.
Mine as well
Nice video Matt. You and others might be interested in Christopher Matthew's "A Storm of Spears: Understanding the Greek Hoplite at War" (Kindle version is $11 US). It extensively discusses the grips seen in Greek art. It turns out the overhead grip is predominately used on shorter spears than the Hoplite spear. The hoplite used the spear in the underarm position and the low position. The low position is one handed from below the shield essentially (as mentioned in at least one other comment). Also the spear you used would not be used by a Hoplite (at least usually) . The hoplite used a spear of your length with a counterweight on the back end. The counterweight put the balance point much further towards the back. The book also discusses various stances used. Also the findings of Australian re-enactors are discussed for massed spears.
Matthews also has the book "An Invincible Beast" that discusses the use of the even longer Sarissa with a small shield. I have just started the book but it looks to be written as a detailed account of the phalangist's panoply and methodology. Kindle version $13 US.
thank you for the recommendations.
@@niemandkeiner8057 ? I am just quoting a well researched book with a ton of references to historical and archeological data. Have not finished 2nd book but it is as well documented.
@@niemandkeiner8057 "Still convinced that historical evidence is wrong?"
what do you mean?
Thrand showed how Matthews' testing and theory was flawed. ruclips.net/video/iYv87dt0ixA/видео.html
Thanks for the video. Love seeing a full sized spear on screen, that's pretty rare. It strikes me how ancient and universal (mostly determined by body mechanics) this stuff is. I think I've seen every movement you demonstrated here in traditional chinese staff forms (derived from spear.)
Also European quarter staff.
Also japanese-yari-derived forms. ;-)
I guess a major difference in Asian spear styles is that it was rare to use a shield alongside it, so the weapon was far more versatile - in two hands (albeit, bows etc would have been more effective too)
@@MrVelociraptor75 That's a major difference in the surviving styles, because they're generally oriented towards dueling or very small group engagements rather than big battles in big groups. There's a similar bias in the west if you confine yourself to the proper written sources as they're mostly very late term and oriented towards fencing schools.
The Japanese and the Chinese both used shields in earlier times though, just like Europeans and Africans.
The Japanese shields evolved in two directions - shields that were driven into the ground to form temporary fortifications (similar to a European pavise) and those that became parts of the armor (similar to many of the finer bits on late period European plate.) So in late period 'Shogun' settings there are either no traditional shields at all, or maybe there are some but it's only the poorest troops using them so nobody bothers to paint them or write about them.
In China, shields must have survived very late - probably up until firearms became popular. But the only surviving forms I am aware of presume extremely tiny shields, remnants that a gentleman might carry underneath his robe without arousing suspicion. Chinese martial arts; with as much fantasy and wishful thinking as it may have; nonetheless has a fundamental orientation towards what works. And a typical medium or larger sized shield works really well against most arrows, bolts, quarrels, or stones. It even works pretty well against bullets from slings or very early blackpowder weapons (given a bit of range) depending on the construction. But once semi-modern firearms started showing up on a fairly regular basis they were right out.
Cheers!
Interestingly, many of the specific moves in Maori spear-based martial art are also identically included in aikido - at least, the art I trained in matched (move for move) the staff moves my brother had with his black belt. It was fascinating to discuss with him the body mechanics involved, and how they worked the same. Would not surprise me to discover more overlap with other styles around the world, either.
Hi, I wrote at university about greek warfare. I made an experiment and beside that, we made a try how you can change the spear position. How can I send this to you?
I am curious of the results as well
I'd send it to him via email.
Have you tried sending him a Raven ?
Liked for visibility :)
Put it on Academia.edu.
There are a lot less pole weapon demonstration videos compared to sword videos out there. Thanks for this!
If you're holding the spear at hip hight with your knuckles facing outwards, the spear can be lifted to overarm by lifting your forearm so that you are now holding the spear at head hight with your knuckles facing inwards. To change to a 'knuckles out' out grip, release your finger grip and twist your wrist whilst supporting the shaft with your thumb - you're still losing your grip on the spear but for much less time and retaining contact with your thumb underneath the shaft which should significantly minimise the chances of fumbling.
Yep, I´m I fumbler, especially under stress and this is the most reliable method for me, since you never lose contact with the shaft.
That's how I was taught with both the bo staff and nunchucks.
That's what I'd do. If I break it down slowly, I switch my thumb from outside to inside before switching my finger positron, you barely feel like you are releasing your grip at all. You can quickly turn the whole action into a fluid motion.
Thanks again for talking about spears.
I love it when he talks about long, thick spears too
Thanks for these videos Matt. These are great. Personally I switch spear grips very similar to you throwing the spear upwards (we use shorter spears like you mentioned though). There is just a small difference to make the flight path more predictable and in doing so the switch from overarm to underarm a lot easier:
1.) Throw the spear out for a long reach thrust and grip the butt, so to speak.
2.) Pull it back in an upward motion and switch grip mid-flight.
Since the spear travels fairly linear on a path, where the shaft is also on, it should get way easier. I hope, this helps. Since there is practice this evening, I'll try to record it on video.
Cheers and keep it up!
Promised video: ruclips.net/video/4yHUjnEKoF8/видео.html
Good stuff!
Nice move, and pretty similar to Matt's two handed thrust and switch :)
Commenting for visibility. Good video though^^
Thank you!
Great video. The spear is a fantastic weapon and is usually my first weapon until it is time to close in. I use twirling quite a bit in duels but almost always the launching method in formations. Once my spear was knocked away while launching so it is a bit risky but a shield bash and a quick draw of my axe saved the day.
This is the type in content I enjoy the most! Please more like this!
Very well done. Having trained with the spear a lot I was taught that less flailing about with it is the best. As you pointed out bringing your point off line leaves you open to your opponent stepping up and hitting you
Matt Easton has a kite shield.
Someone make sure that Shad doesn't hyperventilate himself into unconsciousness.
Steady on, he isn't wearing a gambeson or holding a longsword. We're not quite in hyperventilation territory yet.
@Jonathon Dean-I’m also not seeing anything resembling a cape..
Love spears. Would like to see a episode on different types. Fighting vrs hunting etc.
Have hunted a few times with my spear ( have 2) and have found them very effective. Extremely clean kills every time. Ether used thrown or trusted, both on deer and bear.
But yes I'm rambling. A video on types of spears would be awesome, and how they changed over time.
In "Thegn and thrand" channel he share a technique of how to transition from over to underarm spear grip
That's right - and works great, I think is the better way
Matt, I think that a spear used with shield normally would have buttspike. Here is why:
1. It changes the balance further back, closer at the hand, making the point nimblier, kind like a rapier.
2. If the head broke off or bend, you can buttspike instead.
3. Can be used to kill fallen enemies as you march over them (greek did it)
4. Can be used defensively, if someone comes from behind, or if the head get knocked to the side as a counter-attack.
This is very useful against multiple opponents, as they will try to surround you.
5. The buttspike protects the other end making it harder for the shaft to split at the end.
6. Can be used to stick a spear on the ground, so you can free your hand temporarily.
7. A buttstrike thrust with the buttspike will add a LOAD of context in your video, Matt!
Please Matt, make a video on it!
It seems to me that the only real reason for a buttspike is your #1, that is it changes the balance point. All the rest are side benefits, for the most part. One comment, though.
A counterbalance does not make the point nimbler. Actually, it makes it more sluggish, because it increases the angular momentum of the weapon. Since you always grip a spear at or near its balance point, adding weight to any end will make the weapon slower. It doesn't work like that with swords, because you don't grip them at the point of balance, so adding weight can make them nimbler by virtue of moving the balance point closer to the grip.
I used to be of the opinion that underhand grip was best for spears, thinking it was more versatile. However, Thrand's video on the subject convinced me that the overhand method was better in most situations.
The original spear holding video is what got me started on this channel!
I'm sure someone else posted this already but Thrand did a video on this topic of changing grip. Very happy to get your view of this topic. Thank you Matt! Keep up the good work. Cheers!
Covered the basics on grip. Nice Norman style shield.
Excellent lesson. Thorough and concise.
Extremely interesting and informative display. I only recently found this site and very much enjoy it.
WOW this series will be extremely cool! Hope to see something more about overarm grip cause i really cannot see how effective it can be
Am sure Thane Thrand has videos on effectiveness of overarm grip.
Can't wait for part two good sir!
Hi Matt, with a spear in two hands, the best method is sliding forward, as you've shown, but there is another for when you can't, that is still narrow spaced: I slide the back hand to meet the leading one in the middle, I change just over the point, like in sabre, then the former leading hand goes back as I change profile. If you want, I can make a response video, just need some time to do it.
Please do. :)
I. Love. This video.
When I do anything spear in reenactment one-handed, I do something largely identical to the 'toss' method. Except, I don't really toss it. I loosen my grip as much as possible, down to about two fingers - my middle finger and my thumb. Then I accelerate the weapon upwards to offset motion via gravity as much as possible. Finally I release the middle finger so I can worm all of my hand around the shaft - using the thumb as a guide and cradle - so I can reseal my grip as quickly as possible.
This enables me to maintain my point /mostly/ on line, and - most importantly - it reduces the amount of time my weapon has no point of mechanical leverage at any given time. It has the same drawbacks as the 'toss', but I feel it's a highly streamlined, and less vulnerable form. The same issue of 'messing up' is still a factor, but it's not a factor of 'catching', as much as it is finger-dexterity and flagging grip. I see this as less of an issue, but I could easily be wrong.
EDIT: This is identical to what Matt does at 19:23. Just practiced and done to my preference.
I think something that you didn't mention in this video that is quite important for context as to how you would move your spear is something like pike formations, where not just the first line of soldiers would be fighting. You'd have successive lines all with their spears forward making it an even tighter space for maneuvering your spear.
Thank you for making this video. This topic was contentious in a DnD game I played a few months back. I'll keep this on hand for future reference.
When handling such a long and thick shaft one should always work on their grip and technique
Point it forward towards the enemy or else they might charge forward and grab your shaft.
@@geirnp As long as they're careful with the head.
😂😂
...and make sure it is splinter-free!
Spears are my absolute favorite weapon!! I'd love to see more of this.
Could you do a video on how a 20' Sarissa would be handled?
Nah the comment section will NOT be able to withstand such a majestic shaft
I feel like sarissas are much more limited in the way they can be effectively handled. Just their sheer size and weight alone makes handling difficult. Also a spear is an individual weapon (that can be used in formation) while a sarissa is more of a unit weapon only. I'm pretty sure nobody would've ever picked a sarissa for a duel. I'm not a scholar or historian btw, this is just my opinion.
@@michaelfranciotti3900 I'm actually astounded that they even worked so well in formation. I think the relative lack of armor of the time period explains it more than anything. Only a helmet, linothorax, and greaves? Just poke 'til you hear screaming, hoplite. Here's a shield.
@@michaelfranciotti3900 I'm just curious about the specifics of how you would hold it for maximum efficiency and without getting tired. In other words it would come down to precise placement of every body part for my interests. (I'm actually going to be doing a sculpt of a Sarissai in the future so I need the most accurate pose as possible)
@@DragonTigerBoss I was reading about the Sarissai and apparently there is debate as to if they even had the Linothorax. If that is true I wonder if it is for the same reason they had smaller and less convex shields...
One of your finest videos please do more!
It has advice and tutorials it has history and i especially loved the fact that it was in nature,it looked so right and pleasant.
Now as a Greek and a spear fanatic i do tend to believe more on the underarm use since i do not understand if one were to use it over arm then why not have a significant counterweight at the end (nothing fancy just a blob of steel) and take full advantage of the length.
I just find the idea that in a massed formation with such long weapons only the first and marginally the second line used them wasteful.
At some point the spear becomes too heavy to be able to use one handed. So, you want to be careful with the counter weight. Plus, a counter weight is not always necessary. A longer spear, like the one you see in this video, has a lot of counterweight already and is already at the limit of what you can wield one handed.
There were moments in history where spears had been used by just more than the first and second line at the same time. It was done with pike formations in the ancient times and later again it was done from the late medieval period until the 18th century. It took a lot of training and effort to get it right. So, I'm guessing that's why it was not done for most of history.
You say you are a Greek spear fanatic, so you should know from the ancient Greeks that it's practically impossible to use spears underarm in a formation containing shields. That's why I don't understand why you say "you believe more" on the underarm. Like Matt always says in his videos: context is important. Underarm has its uses, it's great for one on one or in formations that contain no shields, but it's horrible in formations with shields, which is what the most common type of formations were throughout history.
@@AleksandrKramarenko
Of course i know about the pike formations.
As it applies to the counterweight i did not mean it on this 2.7 m spear but more on the 2m hoplite spear by having the counterweight you do not need this 1m long protrusion on the end which even overhanded would still hit sometimes with the second lines spear.
The fact that you see in ancient vases 70% of the time overhand use does not necessarily mean it was the case ,on the same vases you see them riding dolphins to battle.
And on most of those vases you see dueling in which the overarm makes more sense for the throw.
As it regards actual battles,we do not have any treatises so we DO NOT know how they did it,you may be wrong i may be wrong.
But i do believe they were practical men and would have seen a better tactic than wasting half the spear overarm.
Tactic like possibly first 2 rows underarm for extra reach (u can use underarm the shields are circular)and next 2 or 1 overarm to protect the first rank when the enemy came close so their shorter range would be an issue.
If now like Mat you propose than underarm you cant inflict damage to the enemy due to their shields ,to that i retort then how did the pikemen (using it two handed but in the height same as with underarm use)deal damage and win the hoplites in many battles?
@@michaelfurgessons2896 I agree about the size and counter weight. The spear in Matt's video seems a bit too long for one handed use.
Know that I'm strictly talking about "regular" spears used with shields, not pikes. Pikes are used quite differently, after all, and I agree with you on pikes.
We may not have any treaty describing spear use in formations, but we have people who've tried it out. Here are some problems they point out with the underhand grip in a formation: 1. You can only attack to the front and somewhat awkwardly to the right because you have little space to move the spear left and right. 2. You cannot attack an enemy that moves past your tip because there's no space to move your spear far back in an emergency. 3. Your enemy can constantly see your spear sticking out and can therefore plan and manipulate it more easily. 4. You are holding a long stick at its end, allowing the enemy to easily push it aside (it's like a long lever).
You said that with the overarm grip you waste half of the spear. Overarm might not get as much reach as with underarm, but you can get almost as much. You semi-throw the spear, catching it, then semi-throw it back to the ready position. That way, you can then also put a lot more force into it compared to underarm, which is important for piercing armor. You can attack left and right easily, which is important because in formation fighting it's how you get the most openings. If the enemy moves close, you can still attack him up close with the regular stabbing attack. The enemy doesn't know where you are going to attack because your spear is held back in the ready position. The enemy cannot as easily push your spear away because your spear only comes in his range when you make a thrust.
There are also many other small things. Check out the following two videos:
On Scholagladiatoria: "Spear and shield - overarm vs underarm"
On ThegnThrand: "Overarm Vs. Underarm Spear in Greek / Spartan Phalanx : Thrand's Spear Sliding Style Tested"
They point out how both grips are affected by formation fighting.
Thanks for the video, Matt!
Big fan of spears and spear history here, so this (in addition to the usual sword content) is very welcome 👍
9 foot = 2,75 meters
I use a 225 cm spear every sunday, your spear definetly doen't have only 2,50 meters, Matt.
Cheers man. Loved your video. Very needy these days. Not much videos on spear and kite shields (amazing combination tho, I use kite shields always).
Two thoughts of mine to add: I (rarely, not regularely) do some spear-and-shield sparring. First one: For switching underarm to overarm, I do prefer the version you showed the first, like a little throw - but with one tiny but important difference: I keep touch between fingertips and shaft, to minimize the danger of losing the weapon. However, the second can be exploited by the enemy to disarm you, plus, the other way round, switching overarm to underarm grip, is more dangerous not just because of the acceleration effect you mentioned but also because you do not get a second chance to grip the weapon if you failed. That you get when changing underarm to overarm. Second one: I remember illustrations (I can't find them right now, and due to lack of equipment never tried myself) where several cultures - I especially remember a picture of some african warriors maybe zulu? - using spears in combination with an underarm-strapped shield, gripped directly behind the rim of a shield with concave sides, which allowed the warriors to trade a bit of awkward usage of the shield for slightly limited two handed use. I'd love to hear or read more of that, seemed quite useful to me.
I can't express how glad i am to see someone else using a 9 foot spear in one hand! There seems to be a prevalent idea among reenactors i know, that such a size could only be managed in two hands. I think a mix of poor and heavy reproductions may be to blame.
To add my 2 cents to the switching hands matter, I've used a long spear single handed in reenactment combat, so with multiple opponents, for probably 12 years or so now. I almost always use the throw and catch, even while running and changing direction I've not had a significant fumble beyond the first few months of training. The retained threat is indeed one of the key advantages i find with this. However I have still picked up some of the wider motions to change hands, exclusively i find them useful for crowd control of inexperienced fighters; Something long and fast moving near them will instinctively make them back away if only momentarily, lending me the distance i needed to choose who to fight.
I loved the video! And yes, please, more of this!
As another person said, polearms do not get the attention that they deserve and they had historically!
I like the garden!
More spear videos would be awesome! They don't get a lot of love on most channels.
Very interesting. One understand why the spear ruled the battlefield for thousands of years. Relativly cheap and simple to produce and at the same time quite easy to learn.
Nice to see you spearheading this issue.
For most of the viewers of this channel this might sound ridicolous, but as someone who watches mr Easton to learn about weapons, history and so on, I was actually quite suprised at how very tall spears are. I knew, of course, in theory, that they were quite tall, but I have never seen it in person. Hell; that is about two Eastons.
Similarly, I was surprised that a spear that long could be used one handed.
Unfortunately, such a spear is really difficult to store and move. I have a 7 foot halberd and moving it around is very difficult
That's a lovely backyard you have, Sir Easton.
Thanks for that video, i'm highly interested in spear fighting and i love every second of content i can get my hands on as there is not much of it to be found
Great video about an underdiscussed topic.
i Know a Way Changing Grip
by Keeping the Spear Betwen Midle finger and Triger Finger ,
Consider delivering a spear thrusts over the top of the shield wall. Your grip is overhand, and your arm and shoulder are the only exposed targets as you thrust.
As you withdraw your spear with the triceps and shoulder, consider allowing the momentum of the spear to act as the bracing object (like the ground, shield, hand, or shoulder might ), and so, deftly, release the spear, drawing it until the grip is at least center-staffed.
The motion of the arm ought to mimick the locomotion required to bring the fully-raised right hand (palm up, fingers pointing left), to a position where the arm forms acute angles between it's segments, and with the side of the torso, with the palm raised and the fingers pointing to the right (as if carrying a serving tray).
This technique would allow a spearman to attack from a defended extension, withdraw from the created space into a strong counterattacking stance, and adjust the grip from the deeper overhand position (favored for the bracing ability of the forearm) to the more advanced underhand position (ideal for throwing or punching deep into armor with greater leverage).
I believe this is one example of many such movements which would blend attack, defense, feint, and adjustment actions into a single practice, and thus, martial art.
From what I've read about the Zulus, they favored an underhand grip with their short-handled spears, which were used with large cowhide shields. Likewise, according to Richard Meinertzhagen, the Maasai held their spears underhand (again with large cowhide or buffalo hide shields) during a surprise night attack on a Kikuyu village.
I appreciate the guy talking about the most deadly weapons for hundreds of years talking about getting an "ouchie". Joking aside, another great video. Thanks
The illustrations of spear fencing from the Gladiatoria collection(1430s) are my favorite.
So I was just messing around with a long stick I have and I think I've figured out a method for switching safely from underarm to overarm grip and back fairly quickly that could work in a narrow space as long as the spear is not too thick or heavy (which a javelin or throwing spear probably will be) and you have good finger dexterity.
Step 1: From underarm, release the grip of your last two fingers so that you're holding the spear with only your thumb, pointer and middle finger
Step 2: Slide your ring and pinky to the other side of the shaft
Step 3: Raise the spear and your hand up so that the spear is resting on your palm and in between your fingers like you're holding the spear with a flattened "Vulcan salute."
Step 4: Slide your pointer and middle finger to the other side of the shaft and readjust to overarm grip
The reverse of this can also be done to go from overarm to underarm too and it has a very low chance of fumbling compared to the "toss" method with enough practice.
Great video! Eager to see the other parts!
What really happened was that Lucy asked Matt to trim that tree and this is how he did it.
Hiya Matt, I think battlefield psychology of a sort was one of the biggest determinate of this kind of thing. Training and conditioning are big factors of course, but I think even trained soldiers would probably favour techniques that keep them safe first and threaten second. Among the relative commotion of the forward line, where two sides thrust and slash at each other en mass an individual soldier would probably pick their moment to shift stance or grip in the safest possible way, perhaps even nesting themselves a step back into their rank for further protection.
Sweaty hands, fatigue, fear and jostling only increase the risk factor of any movement that removes the weapon from hand. As a result I'm inclined to believe that soldiers on the hot spots of the line would not risk loss of grip on their weapon and would instead hide behind their shields, exchange grip with greater safety, trust in the relative noise of combat to conceal their intentions and then re-engage as a threat using their alternate grip.
I think self preservation motivations like this, where each individual favours their own survival over ultimate offensive efficiency, probably gives us insight into why casualties before one force fled the field were relatively low and maybe even why units break under pressure. If you loose grip on your weapon and drop it the enemy may press your position in the line making you the focus of the attack - which will of course come from multiple angles. You may be unable to retrieve your weapon (the opposition may trap it or even steal it away) and then you or those around you may panic or even break under pressure. Something simple like retrieving a replacement weapon from the ranks behind you, may become much more difficult in these kinds of kinetic situations and even if you win the encounter your fellows may turn to you and pressure you to not risk such a move again - your risking their safety as well as your own after all.
Just my initial thoughts and obviously no one can know for sure of course - it was likely all extremely situational.
Hi ! I don't know if you had solve the problem of the changing grip underarm or overarm but, practicing spear in HEMA, with gloves, I change my grip the way you change yours at 1:34, when you put your spear under your armpit. It's the most secure way I found and it's quick when you're trained.
For later periods, with a double handed polearm: When you grab with the leading hand from above, it looks and feels a little awkward at first, but if you try it, you realize that you do not really loose much mobility or force, especially not in close formation, but you are lightning quick in an overarm position by simply raising both hands, without ever loosing the point on the enemy. The resulting position very much resembles the "ox" or "hanging ort" from swordfencing, and is excellent for blocking/parrying, especially against chopping polearms. Additionally, you might feel like exposing more of your leading hand, but it is the part that is much easier to armor, and your wrist and fingertips are a lot better protected. I tried it once and very much feel like sticking with it. With that grip, you also have a lot of downward and sideways force from the underarm, and a lot of leverage for a very powerful upward strike from the overarm position.
Brilliant presentation....when this series is complete, maybe a dvd compilation?
For one-handed, switching from underarm to overarm, you can just keep the thumb forward, without changing hand grip. Compared to overarm with thumb to the rear, you loose a little thrusting power as well as the option to throw, but you have a bit better tip control and maintain more options for parries (example: rightward wrapping drop parry followed by an underarm counter thrust). You also lose a little bit of mobility towards your right, but that's your buddy's sector (when in rank formation), or you can just drop back to underarm (without any threat of losing grip) for thrusts that need to be aimed more to the right.
You should praktice as many ways to change grip as possible, so that you re able to perform them all - depending on the situation.
I like your way of explaining !
Wow, this is great content. I would like to know more about spears, could you make a series about polearms? It would be awesome!
Thanks for the channel by the way, you guys make a lot of interesting videos.
2 Handed, it's important to discuss when, and why you want to switch hands. In a built up area with a lot of cover, or just trees, you can use them as cover, instead of a shield. Especially defensively, I've done this spear-hunting feral hogs (With a Boar Spear) Obviously, you want your forward shoulder on the side with the tree, corner, wall, or what have you. So, you have relatively free motion around it, and should you have to fall back, the spear can follow you, still pointed at the enemy as they come around. (This is why they had staircases set up to turn to the left going up, and the right going down, to benefit the defender, not the attacker.) Just as with a rifle shoulder transition.
Great video. Really makes you realise how intimidating a spear was.
Very nice analysis! Enjoyed and love to see more!
Staves/spears are my favorite weapons to use, though I am more familiar with Asian variants i.e. bo and naginata. One can certainly discuss at length the all-important grips and transitions. I do not have much personal experience with spear and shield, but grip changing is something any martial artist should practice.
I think you have the right of a single-hand change, Matt: toss and catch. The only thing I might do differently is something you touch on later in the video. Rather than pivoting around the thumb or back of hand, however, I would maintain pivot contact with the palm. This achieves the speed of "toss and catch" (being the same relative motion) while maintaining better control as the shaft doesn't leave your hand. And nothing wrong with twirling :) Twirling is good for practicing control and balance of a weapon, but it's like juggling in football/soccer... Do it off the field.
As for changing with two hands, I perform an Okinawan bo kata that has a thrust change exactly as you describe it, so I can confirm the utility and benefits of it. Its one issue is extreme off-balance during the thrust. If the thrust is knocked away, then one must use that energy to swing back into a functional position. Hence, it's very vulnerable if the thrust goes amiss. For karateka, that's not much of an issue as we're using both ends of the weapon. But a spear's head is the point of the weapon, pun intended of course, so it seems like having it knocked off line is a bigger issue. As slow as that moulinet change feels, it also seems like the safer option. Your point goes off line, but the potential parry of a moulinet yields a stronger change than the riskier thrust. Better to accept the point going off line than risk having the weapon knocked out of your hands. Then again, most techniques I practice do not take into account the tighter formations indicated by historical European sources, so I defer to your analysis in that context. In the end, if one's spear does get knocked away, then it's time to fall back to the most magical of secondary weapons: the sword!
Your videos are always informative, but I particularly enjoyed this one! Cheers!
Hey Matt, one thing that can add to the advantage of "overhead" style is that you "throw the spear" downward into an enemy that is close. Though the difference is that the spear is still retrievable, controlled, and only leaves your hand a little ways. Thegnthrand has played at that idea of casting the spear. However, you should watch some boar spearing videos where dudes spear immediately close hogs by throwing the spear downwards a meter in front of them. I'm referring to the African style of throwing spear in modern recreation, rather than the traditional boar spear. Very different scenario in a person to person combat, but there might be a similarity.
Yes! Have been waiting for this for years. More on spears, please. Thank you for this video :)
This man knows how to handle a shaft! XD
You have a nice back garden Matt.
For the two handed spear, I'm a fan of a behind the back pass. Now I use a wushu spear, nine foot and made from oak, and I use a behind the back pass to swap sides, taking one hand off the spear, passing the spear behind my back, grabbing it again with the hand I took off, then replacing the hand it was in. Useful for multiple opponents, as it also lets you quickly adjust your line to a new direction, if you need to. The downside, is that it's flashy as heck, and not as fast. But in a one on many situation, it shines.
Another useful video. Thanks Matt.
You mentioned the idea of passing spears forward towards the front line. This had me thinking.
If the enemy advanced into you it might be a good idea to have an underhand grip for ease of bracing. Once the enemy is fully engaged the front line could reach up and receive fresh spears from the lines behind them which I believe should be more naturally handed to them in an over hand grip.
Also underhand grip makes sense if the spear is held at the base, but in shield to shield it would then make sense for the spear to be short and not 9 feet.
Having watched Tods video on throwing with a string - it would be interesting to see how a fixed leather string would work out in a battle. Ie, if you have an owerhand gripp, you could potentialy throw it with force, in combat, and use the string both for sped and force, aswell as for snatching the spear back, and not loosing the weapon neadless. Interesting take on the mather Matt.
On switching from an under to overhand grip, it's a bit hard to explain but try starting with your weapon arm extended then perform a switch as you pull the weapon and your hand back and up. You'll naturally find it easier and quicker to roll the weapon in your grip.
the safest and efficient way i found for myselfis tis: to switch from thumb-to-point to overhead I lift the spear up, open my palm and rotate the palm beneath the shaft without moving the shaft itself. the motion is quite tricky to perform but with some training it works well even while wearing a gauntlet
but there is also a way to work the spear in overhead position without rotating the hand, in thumb-to-point grip. that is a bit awkward but if you only need to make two-three blows or you are crouded - it may work
thank you matt ive been waiting for a video like this for years
I like to use 2 handed spears with the left hand forward because I like to be able to use some quaterstaff techniques if needed/possible, I learned Meyer's system so right hand on the bottom.
YES YES YES!!! More polearm videos! Finish the spear, then go to the Dane Axe, then perhaps a halberd or partizan or........
Slick new production value
I always thought it was weird that Lindybeige advocated against overarm use, but the formation and throwing arguments as well as just gravit doing your work for you convince me that the ancient depictions arent unrealistic
Love the spear technique videos, keep them coming!!!
The use of a lanyard or ankyle was a very important spear accessory, supposedly seeing use in ancient greek times and the viking era. A lanyard would avoid the risk of dropping the spear, while additionally acting as a throwing string, if one needed to use the spear as a missile weapon, allowing for an increase in mechanical advantage while throwing, almost like a swiss-dart.
Also, the overhand grip allows the spear to be brought completely over to the shield side, and action that would be blocked by the shaft while being held underhand
You can still maintain the same grip while just raising it above your head to deliver an overhead spear thrust. Your knuckles would be facing skyward, you can then maintain a lower grip on the spear and use it to thrust over shields or at targets in the 2nd line. This wouldn't be switching to an overhead grip exactly, but would allow you to perform an overhead thrust without changing grips or stance.
What about a formation of men holding a shield on one hand and a long pike on the other (below armpit like cavalry)?
I agree with your point that one handed spears were mainly used overhand. Being in formation, the opponent having shields, their feet further away, all work against underhanded grip. I also think gravity helps add to the force from the overhand grip. And your point about being able to throw it.
I think modern spear users don't practice in a formation, which is why they use underhanded grip. The only thing the underhand grip offers is comfort for spoiled moderns. :D
Right, they basically use the spear like a really long rapier, holding it the same grip they'd hold a sword.
For a large strapped shield, would a notch at the top center facilitate a sort of 2 handed use of the spear allowing for a longer spear or longer reach in the overarm grip?
the catch is the most optimal one. you have risk but its absolutely worth the speed and space it takes.
4:29 First of all, they used both, but predominantly on the March, they held it butt down. As you are there. You quickly flipped it up to point forward, over-arm, but I believe (This is conjecture) they would tend to point it up, under arm against Cavalry, and possibly fighting uphill. Overarm on level ground against other Shields to stab over them. Another point: If they have shields, it's much easier to stab over them, then around them. If the enemy is any good at using a shield.
You can move from the under arm position to up high without changing grip if you angle your body a bit more sideways at the same time. A quick tryout with a stick and it feels you can stab quite hard and accurately from this position, although in a more restricted angle. While you'd be giving up the option to throw, you'd gain the possibility to threaten from high position without fiddling with the stick and loosing grip. Something to consider.
For one handed shield wall use, what if you kept the same underhand grip but just lifted the spear above your head and turned so that your torso was more at a diagonal with your target?
Very interesting video and a lot of food for thought. So here's my 10 cents worth: For most of the "Spear and Shield" period, if we can use such a term, individual warriors, (NOT soldiers); ie Greek Hoplites as opposed to Roman Imperial Legionaries, were, if they were trained at all, were trained in group drill rather than individual weapon handling. There are a lot of Greek sources stating that individual weapon skills, (Hoplomachia), were useless in a Phalanx (Which is just another term for a shield wall), and only became useful when one Phalanx had broken and the pursuit had begun. In which case the battle's won anyway. For my money, the Greeks- the main area of my interest- used the underhand grip when advancing towards the enemy, in open order, with a pace between files, then, at mayby 100 yards away from the enemy, closing up to Synapsis, by bringing the back half of each file down into the gaps, giving about two feet frontage per man, a shield overlap and, if they'd started at 8-deep in open order, 4 deep in close order. Hellenistic drill manuals back this up. At the same time, switching the grip to the thumb-to-the-rear, overhead grip, allowing thrusts over the shields of the enemy and letting the next ranks jab as well, especially as the ranks compacted in the Othismos.
Awesome Demonstration Matty !!!
I actually gave this quite a bit of thought. Body mechanics only work in so many ways. And I have came up with. When using a spear with a shield in combat. I think it would be easier to use the underhanging grip. Above and below the Shoulder line for thrusting. The transitions above the shoulder line And below the shoulder line are seamless. And there is Great-Power and reach with over the shoulder line thrusts and below the shoulder line thrust. The fascinating thing is the Grip placement does not change unless you are going to throw it. And it seems that accuracy of the thrust is enhanced .Because the thumb points at the target. In both positions
could another advantage of overarm grip be that it is harder for opponents to bind/lock/seize the spear? it seems like in the underarm grip it would be much easier to knock the point off line w/a beating attack or perhaps a parry with a shield rim.
So first of all im not a Expert. I learned about how to use a spear (with shield )by fighting different wepon fightingClubs (HEMA , Kendo, Hambo-jutzu, Eskrima) and getting my a** kicked until i was better because ther are no spear and shield groups.
Normaly i go only for the lower grip bacause i only do 1v1s but if im getting chased in the corner or a Wall and cant get out effectivly forcing me to go in the overgrip
I extend my shield arm to the Opponent with a 45° angel .
Make a small sidestep to my right( my spear-arm) and using the uptoss
If i can change back
I extend my shield to the Opponent ( flat)
Get my Spear to show the Opposit way of the Opponent ( showing my shield side of my body )
and trowing it down caching it with my armpit und Hand
Super cool Video i Love Spear und Shield and Love to See Part 2
16:15 is it possible to use this to bait a thrust to knock their weapon away to create an opening?
More spear stuff! Great video Matt.