Vegan Infighting & Why Your Family Won't Go Vegan | In Conversation with Dr. Melanie Joy
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
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During my time in Berlin late last year, I had the honour of talking to Dr. Melanie Joy, a Harvard educated psychologist, public speaker and author who coined the term ‘carnism’. Throughout our conversation we talk about handling divisions with non-vegan friends and family, as well as discussing how to create healthier and more effective communication habits for our vegan advocacy in general.
Find out more about Dr. Melanie Joy's work & get her books:
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Maximum respect
Thank you for this video. I have been vegan for 2 months now and I have been struggling with my friends and family. It just drove me crazy why people can't care about animals I just don't understand. Really needed to hear this.
When I confronted my family about the unnecessary animal abuse, my mother defended our carnist family claiming that they "had no beliefs at all" and "didn't think about it" and therefore were not responsible.
I argued that awareness is independent of thinking. Even without thinking anything at all, your beliefs will still drive your behaviour.
I believe that hurting or killing unnecessarily is not an ingenuous way to live.
Only my youngest nieces/nephews who are *truly* ignorant of what's occuring are the ones who don't have a belief system about it.
I'm about to be creating a video sharing how I feel and where I stand candidly again, since the majority of them have no qualms about whipping out factory farming products right in front of me even when they knew it causes me intense pain to be witness to that.
I've never gotten an apology and I don't expect I ever will.
I finally found my voice and I'm proud of myself for speaking up for the animals, even if I'm not perfect and I have to make mistakes and learn along the way. It feels so much better than constantly feeling smothered by my reality and like my voice was being choked.
Watching a pig in a gas chamber rages me inside so much but we must use this energy to do good and try to save these poor helpless animals.
Your content is really great these days.
I've turned most of my family vegan becuz of your videos. I've spent hours studying your argument style. I've learned so much. I want to absolutely perfect my argument before approaching my dad. I want to be ready for anything he says. I'm almost ready I think. Thank you, Ed. Truly
Cameron Edwards Me too, he is so helpful!
@albert fish and I feel bad for the animals that continue to die in the meantime
@@cam-hr1pz
Animals dies whether or not you eat them. You and everyone stop eating meat won't change that, infact it may actually lead them to their extinction.
@@Amor_fati.Memento_Mori It's not only that the animals have died, but that they have been unecessarily killed and abused for their entire lives prior to that
Simple law of supply and demand dictates that anyone purchasing animal products is *UNEQUIVOCALLY* being the reason that the rampant abuses and destructive externalities inherently tied with factory farms continues to thrive.
ruclips.net/video/LQRAfJyEsko/видео.html
We know this is true since, according to the United States Department of Agriculture, 99% of ALL animal products are produced from FACTORY FARMING settings.
www.sentienceinstitute.org/us-factory-farming-estimates
@@Amor_fati.Memento_Mori *continue
I never tought that I would stop meat dairy ....
I stopped since October and it was and still is the best choice that I've made
That's awesome! Congrats! How is it going so far? :)
Happy to know that!
I'm a 15 year old girl from Tasmania and I am so fortunate to have two parents, aunties, uncles, cousins and even a grandparent who are vegan. I've been vegetarian since I was around 6 years old, though never did I think about becoming vegan. Last month I watched a short video with Joaquin Phoenix, saving a mother and baby cow from the dairy and meat industry. It hit me that being vegetarian just wasn't enough. I am now a vegan with a supportive family and Ed, you have been such an inspiration for me. Thank you for educating me and helping me make the right decisions. Love to all the other vegans out there! Stay safe!
thank you so much !!
Charlotte Brooke ayeee i’m from tassie too. so glad to know i’m not the only one down here watching ed!!
@@keishat9646 That is so great to hear!
Can you explain to me, why I should be vegan, or explain to me why animal abuse is immoral.
I hope you develop properly, make sure you’re meticulous with your diet or you run the risk of severely affecting your sex hormones, amongst other things.
it shocks me so much that Ed has been able to transform to veganism so many people around the world and yet he hasn't been able to veganize his own parents because they won't listen to him
this is true for many famous vegans, even Gary. I experienced this as well, the people closest to you are somehow the hardest to convince
@@123LuffyDMonkeysame, as much as my parents respect my choices, they probably wouldn't even watch a Ted Talk and have said they'll never change. It's always more awkward having these kind of conversations with the ones closest to us.
Family dynamics are complicated. I am a health professional who has been vegetarian for over 40 years and vegan for 30. The relationship with family and close friends can often get in the way of effective vegan and other forms of communication. My immediate family have learned much from Ed’s and Dr. Joy’s compassionate, non-judgmental and respectful styles; in addition we choose to serve as role models to help ‘normalize’ veganism. We believe these strategies are most effective to support good relationships and reduce alienation.
I believe it is not about ‘conversion’ to veganism but enabling others to understand ‘carnism’ and their choices. On sharing a documentary with one friend, she expressed she did not want to be ‘forced’ to become plant-based. If others perceive attempts by another to ‘convert’ to anything, the walls go up instantly. Dr. Joy’s framework has been most useful in this regard.
I hope these reflections are helpful.
Professor-Elizabeth
I am 44, 4 years ago I went vegan because my daughter went vegan. I suddenly understood and saw it through her eyes. Never underestimate the ability older people have to change, it is never too late to turn around old ingrained outdated beliefs.I was in the supermarket lift and an older couple asked me about my vegan pizza..they said they went v a few months ago..
How old was she?
My brother raised long horn cattle for quite a few years. Man he loved these creatures and would have put his life on the line to save one that was in distress. Until the trailer came that is. Something would disconnect in his brain for these unfortunate few. It is like he erased their existence. He acted as if they had never been. He is vegan now and we call it "The Disconnect". He had to turn off his brain and emotions or he could not have sent them away. Now he has more Longhorns than he knows what to do with. I'm glad he does not let them breed anymore. It is interesting to watch a herd grazing that knows no one else will go missing.
That's a fantastic story to hear! I feel, people hearing from him would be impacted greatly to change.
Protyus Games how does your brother afford to feed the remaining cattle?
@@tom4412 he is a farrier, and he is in a break even position. I keep encouraging him to start a rescue, cause that is what he is already. In fact he is picking up 3 horses today from a customer of his that has terminal brain cancer and has no family. He tries to find good homes for them.
Your bro sounds like a proper stand up fella 😊
Lovely
It’s so sad that some families can’t accept their own relatives’ decisions... I’m glad that my family embraced my belief, but I feel so sad for others 😔 🌱
I'd say stop calling it a belief. It's a logical conclusion & moral consistency to not actively harm animals
@Fullmetal Chemist I've gotten the same. I have tried given the environment and health aspects of going plant-based as well, since the ethics issues didn't work for them. But even then still remain stubborn
I have left my family
@BobbyFett Do you think everything that tastes good is good for our health?
BobbyFett human meat is said to be tasty and protein-packed, but we surely do not practice cannibalism since we have a moral agency.
Thanks for the podcast, Ed! I’m still new at being vegan (8 weeks now) so I’m trying to learn as much as I can. Thanks & stay safe!
Thank you for becoming vegan. :)
I love reading comments like this, you're awesome! :)
Ornob R I turn 59 in a couple of weeks which shows that old dogs can learn new tricks! Great job in going vegan so young! Congrats!
Silzaress thanks so much!
Lelit my pleasure! How long have you been vegan?
“You have very little morally persuasive power with people who can feel your underlying contempt.” - Martin Luther King Jr.
@Chandi Patah your caps lock is stuck
@@misakistalker3058 ditto
people will not be persuaded to stop killing animals just because you're nice to them and they like you. just deliver the message and stop obsessing over the "perfect" way to deliver the message
Chandi Patah that’s smart... or THATS SMART
@Chandi Patah You are so cute. Time to look inward and see your true self.
Melanie never fails to blow my mind, she always grounds me, helps me to step back from the despair, frustration and sadness I feel being vegan. So positive and empowering, thank you Ed and Melanie 🙏
Can you explain to me, why I should be vegan, or explain to me why animal abuse is immoral.
Despair? Frustration? Sadness? From being vegan?
@@michaels9917 Probably not from being vegan, but rather from waking up to the fact that humanity inflicts massive amounts of pain and suffering on our fellow earthlings.
@@islandsfuldkorn Is it moral to cause unnecessary harm just because you can ?
@@thehousewife2904 I would argue its neither moral nor immoral. Its morally neutral. Its neither good or bad.
Sometimes it takes several years before family members change their own diets. Definitely the case for me. I wouldn't give up showing them facts, animal slaughter videos, documentaries, etc, once in a while (maybe one a month or once every few months, sometimes more frequently, depends on how receptive they are). Most of the time they're just oblivious, and it's a good reminder every now and then.
My mom changed after maybe 4 years .. it does happen sometimes
So hard and I wish you luck!
So are you saying your family changed or still haven't changed? Mine it's been two years and zero change. Friends have been much better
I did the same but my dad ended up hunting for his meat and farming his own hens .. lol
Daniel we could argue that its more of a dickhead thing for assuming that he’s unable to share information with his own family and friends and then calling him a dickhead?
This is ridiculously insightful. So many incredibly points; so much resonates with my personal experience as a relatively new vegan (3 months). What a treat! Thank you, Ed.
Can you explain to me, why I should be vegan, or explain to me why animal abuse is immoral.
@@islandsfuldkorn
Why animal abuse shouldn't be considered immoral?
@@islandsfuldkorn In short: What all animals (human and non-human) have in common is the preference to avoid pain and suffering, and a desire to experience joy and happiness.
Inflicting pain or suffering on beings that don't want it is the very reason why all kinds of systematic oppressions are immoral. Veganism is just the logical conclusion that follows from above stated facts.
Some might try to find different justifications that are strong enough to balance out the abuse that humans inflict on non-humans; like appealing necessity, naturalism or normality, but these justifications don't hold up to logical consistancy if we reflect on them.
For example there are no essential nutrients that we take from animals that we can't get any other place. So the necessity argument doesn't hold up.
Another example (probably the most common) is when opponents of veganism appeal to nature, that some animals eat other animals and that death is a part of life etc. To apply that justification consistantly we would approve of all things natural (like diseases, cannibalism, natural selection etc) and discard all things unnatural (medications, electricity, democracy, the justice system, transportation etc). Natural doesn't equal moral or good.
That was a short explanation from the rational and logical side of it. For more rational, logical and philosophical takes on the matter I recommend "A meat eaters case for veganism" by CosmicSkeptic here on youtube.
Then there is of course the compassionate/intuitive/emotional side of the matter. Some are more logically oriented, some more emotionally oriented. (I try to listen to both the logical and intuitive angles). I recommend the documentary Dominion to see for yourself. It's free here on youtube.
Take care, my friend. :)
@@MindVersusMisery Damn well written
@@grattata4364 Thank you! :)
Every day I fee so fortunate that within 3 years my entire family has gone vegan with me-fortunately my sister and I were both pretty set on it at the same time, so it’s been both of us pushing over two and a half years; then this January we got my mum to try Veganuary and dad eats whatever my mum makes so, that’s awesome in the vegan respect.
Yay that's great :) Does your dad say he misses the taste of meat, or have his tastebuds changed as well?😊
Melanie and Ed together.....the summit of veganism!!
Gianni Palagi i was thinking that the entire time 😂
It's kinda like Jesus and Budda having a chat ;)
I wish they would have spoken more about things I haven't heard from them before, but great anyway
I prefer the term 'peak vegan'.
Also cosmicskeptic.
you two are literally my favorite vegans!! so happy you made this episode together:)
Mine tooo💚😍😎
I mean I appreciate Ed's non-confrontational approach that seems to be incredibly rare these days. But Melanie has this holier than thou disposition in her own work that just makes her stuff borderline unwatchable.
@@misakistalker3058 sorry to hear . She is a Gem .i kinda love her little more than Ed😎😘😉 . But Ed Joey Emily, Melina, Rich are my super fav 😍😎💚ruclips.net/video/bu3z74jBPDk/видео.html
@@misakistalker3058 watch her videos on VeganKanal
ruclips.net/video/RVnGqibEWVQ/видео.html watch this and fall in love with her.💚👍✌️
When I started with veganism several years ago, I stopped attending family gatherings. Because they always took place in different restaurants. And for fear of confrontation I always came up with excuses. Someday my family came up to me and wanted to know why I didn't want to see them. We then had an open conversation. Since then I regulary visit our family gatherings cause my lifestyle been totally accepted from the start. I never tried to convert someone. They never made jokes or asked anything. But they do bring meatless alternatives to family parties. Expecially my father - he is the best human being I know btw. For some time now I see that my family is starting to buy vegan and vegetarian products. I will continue to watch this quitely. I am proud of them and I am curious how far they go in the right direction and If we will ever talk about that in person 🖤🍀
Wow this is so damn interesting. It particularly hit home for me when Dr Joy pointed out that there are levels of readiness for veganism. Looking back, the only reason why I was able to go vegan was because I was in the right place in my life to do so. That definitely helps with understanding, and empathizing with, good people who remain carnists. Also her comment about most forms of oppression having the same structure and psychology is so pertinent when discussing veganism with human rights activists.
Thanks Earthling Ed and Dr Joy!
SJWs like this woman dont understand their own psychology let alone meat eaters. Obsession with esternal oppression is all about an identity that lacks a sense of power within
Carnivore Identity politics alert! Give it a rest bud.
@@carnivore2938 she literally has a Harvard doctorate in the psychology of eating meat. I wonder who's lacking a sense of power here 🤔
@@misakistalker3058 you belong to the animal abuse cult. I wouldn't be proud of it if I were you
@@HousePeople well her psychology will find alot of happy meateaters
After about 6 years vegan, I have given up wasting my time trying to explain to my family the reasons and ethics etc. They're not interested and they don't care. Not my parents or my child. It's a shame but I give up trying. I am instantly shunned on the spot for even mentioning anything to do with veganism or the planet, they are simply not interested and dont care. I know this, because they have told me. They just think I'm a bit strange for caring too much about things they don't care about.
Tried myself first time yesterday, I was called an extremist, arrogant and overall ignorant
Drama was real, got me crying for the rest of the day :(
We managed to make peace today, but I am to keep my beliefs to myself from now on...
You are amazing and worth it, you'll always care and there are so many others who feel the same way you do. we might need to read more or listen more to connect or reconnect. Wishing you strength on your journey, friend :)
@@aSyMbolden oh bless you, thank you for your kindness. I appreciate it
@@oivanurminen8946 i know what your saying, maybe in some families it just isn't cool to care about the animals or planet. It makes it kind of awkward for other people who are not so into it.
Im at about the same stage. But it still frustrates and makes me sad that they can't change anything in their lives to make another ones better. I thought about my parents as good role models and so on for all my life but this needless eating of animals, and their inability to change when given new information is conflicting that picture. =(
Don't tell me this woman is 53 years old. She looks so much younger. Amazing. The vegan diet is truly amazing. Respect.
She is so pretty and vibrant!!!
Lol, I can assure you that carnivores won't feature her in one of those "how veganism ages you" videos.
@albert fish 'The prevalence of overweight or obesity (BMI ≥ 25) was 40% among omnivores, 29% among both semivegetarians and vegans'- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. Do you think that obesity looks nicer?
Piano Impro my mind couldn’t comprehend it for a few seconds.. had to rewind a few times because i kept distracting myself staring at her face in awe 😂
@Daniel Yeah, I imagine someone that stupid wouldn't even be able to use the correct articles to describe basic nouns, let alone spel..
Compassion and Ahimsā towards all beings, both humans and non humans, starting with ourselves is what we really need to live congruently, to walk the talk. Thanks to both Earthling Ed and Melanie Joy for your brilliant labour and loving energy
Yes, Yogi!
Can you explain to me, why I should be vegan, or explain to me why animal abuse is immoral.
@@islandsfuldkorn I wouldn't tell you what to do, but maybe just ask: from your heart, do you feel fine and at peace with yourself knowing that non human animals are being unnecesarily locked down, tortured and slaughtered for human consumption? The answer to this question is only for and from your true self. I think humans know what's the correct action for ourselves and for other beings. As I see it, veganism always looks for the correct action towards non human animals, but also towards humans (otherwise it is misanthropy). We are all connected. How do you receive this message? Best regards ❤
it really is frustrating dealing with a family that just doesn’t understand. every time i try to explain the exploitation they “stick their noses in the sand” and say they don’t wanna hear it... i’m working on them tho getting them comfortable with veganism!! love the podcast btw i listen to them during walks and mealtimes!!
Happens to me aswell very frustrating I feel your pain x
Meshari because i’m not going to just settle when there are lives at stake 💅🏼
Oh my gosh more vegan drama... hahahaha... people grow up... your family and the rest of the world gives a shit if you are vegans... lol
tegan woolsey I have the exact situation at home too! I know it can be very frustrating when you have to sit down at dinner and know that they are hurting the planet and animals when they don’t want to listen; but it’s great that your getting them familiar with the concept, and slowly over time they will listen more. Stay strong things will get better! :)
@Meshari because one belief involves supporting and causing direct animal abuse, the other tries to prevent it.
I was so looking forward to this conversation!
thank you for taking the time. and all the work you two are pumping out.
Great conversation, I really enjoyed listening to it! Thank you for taking the time to make and post it!
She looks way way younger than she is wow
I know right!!
She looks her age to me. She just looks really well.
What she says about people needing to feel safe and ready to change is so important to understand as a vegan, too often we see aggression and moral superiority complex with vegans who will look down on people for not being vegan, including people who are making the steps to change (ie vegetarianism). Anyone who defends these people is dismissed as a carnist apologist when they are completely ignoring the psychology of human behaviour. Yes you went vegan one day overnight, understand that its not that simple for a lot of people.
@James Parker And exactly against the opinion of Melanie and Ed in this video... it's not "extremist" to point it out, but it serves no purpose other than to fuel your own ego and put the other person down.
@James Parker I highly doubt you turned anyone vegan by telling them they're just making excuses and playing the victim. This isn't exclusive to becoming vegan, if someone is struggling with something or has perceived barriers to making a change you don't belittle them and tell them they're playing victim and making excuses. It seems odd to have to spell that out for someone. There is a difference between being firm with someone and being a dick. You can pretend like your approach is preferred by some people but that's simply a justification to be a shitty person, its akin to saying "i bullied a fat person into becoming thin".
@James Parker Take it from the experts in the video who deal with countless non-vegans and which approach has the best outcomes. You can keep justifying your dickish ways by saying it's telling people the truth, but you'll get nowhere with your attitude.
Absolutely brilliant! I could listen to both of you all day. I'm definitely checking out her new book!
Great discussion! I really appreciated the part about family, as it is so personal but at the same time so universal. Thank you lots!!
"Choices always stem from beliefs"
What an interesting conversation between Dr. Melanie and Ed
That was a conversation of pure Truth it's hard to deny.. thank you so much for the interview Ed and Dr. Melanie that was very knowledgeable 🙏💚🌱
Pretty Little Moo Cow by that logic it is completely normal for the government to tape your house and watch what you do in your house. Because you affect “the lives of others” and may threaten the security of the nation. Noice arguments.
This was an amazing podcast. I've been vegan for 3 years now and I have found the "powerarchical" communication point that Dr. Joy brought up is so important for communication and understanding in all aspects of life. It is a very contagious cycle. I have learned that understanding is always the answer when approaching a conversation. I love this so much. Thanks again for such an insightful conversation.
just 15 mins in and this is definitely my favourite podcast so far.
i've found it so incredibly helpful.
delving into psychology has truly changed my method of activism and the way i converse abt veganism with carnists.
i truly believe the activism done by both of you has and will continue to shape the path for veganism in the future.
there is a lot you should be proud of.
( will be sure to give a commending review on the disclosure podcast as soon as i get the chance. )
take care.
That was a really interesting discussion! Thanks to Melanie & Ed for putting this one together!
What a fantastic conversation between two compassionate people. Thank you both for sharing your wisdom and advocacy!
I own and have read her book! amazing that you organised this podcast, keep fighting the good fight, much love
I don't own it, but with the library shut down, I can't return it, so I've still got it!
She's a real treasure!
@Southy mine doesn't either 🤷♂️
@Southy they went to the carbstrong criminal school
Watching my family eat animals while they know the horror their contributing to disgusts me to the point where I don't even want to sit down and eat at the same table with them anymore.. like how can you not care?? .. Does anyone feel this way? do you still continue to eat with them?
Veganism has become a religious cult.
Please, take the liberation pledge. It is not true that most vegans all lose their family and friends and that veganism is a religious cult. The liberation pledge helps others to accept and view veganism for what it is.
@@FreakHarryPotter Do you believe in abortion?
Savage Waifu Only insofar as anti Veganism has become a religious cult for some. Think for yourself!
They have a right to do what they feel just and should be respecting our choices.
Amazing insights here Ed. Thank you so much for this interview. POWERFUL distinctions between different language. Very important.
Thank you for this inspirational conversation 🙏🏻
This conversation should have happened years ago! So insightful and intelligent! Thanks for sharing :)
I have accomplished a lot with family in friends into bringing awareness to becoming vegan. I’m so proud of them.
Great job, Bea!
Confronted my family about it yesterday
It was disasterous, probably won't do it again
We managed to discuss it today, but I am to keep my views for myself from now on
@@oivanurminen8946 Check out Pauls workshop on the anonymous for the voiceless youtube channel, he shares a "tried and true approach" might help you out. My Mum has recently gone vegan, I was just honest with her and told her exactly what she was supporting and it disgusted her. She refused to watch any slaughterhouse footage but she watched a programme on Channel 4 in the uk called "Meat the Family" where families took in "food" animals and reared them and they had to make the decision to go vegetarian and sent the animals to a sanctuary or continue eating meat and send the animals to slaughter. The chicken episode horrified my Mum and she woke up to her hypocrisy. Good luck 👍
@@karenxhill
Thing is, they know what the animals are going through
My mother for ex. hasn't eaten chicken for 35 years because of how horrible the industry is.
She still consumes eggs, and sometimes fish and red meat fully conscious of what happens.
Father thinks that because he eats 90 % less meat than before I have no right to critisize.
Only 1 sibling is vegetarian, doesn't want to go vegan. Two others are "carnists" just like I was before, and they don't give a damn about animals
I'll remember your advice though, thanks :)
@@oivanurminen8946 Seems like they still aren't making that connection that animals are not here for us but with us and haven't got to the point where animals are no longer food 😞
I was vegetarian for a few months and thought veganism was "extreme" and absolutely nuts, "cows will explode if we don't milk them how cruel are these vegans who else is going to drink the milk!" "eggs aren't baby chicks so why can't I eat them?? vegans are ridiculous" that is how I used to think, carnisim lol
I then came across the video 101 reasons to be vegan and gary yourofsky the best speech you'll ever hear and the excuses speech. My whole thinking did a 180 and the idea that animals are not here for us to use and we have no right to treat them the way we do finally hit me, all the programming and conditioning of society left. Also Joey Carbstrong is really powerful, thought he was far too aggressive before but he is very effective and has made me an activist. His violated documentary would be really good to show your parents and his latest video about a girl eating live sea animals on camera, it's enough to make meat eaters absolutely disgusted.
Your family sound like they are nearly there but the psychology just hasn't shifted. It's so frustrating but no injustice can last forever!
What a meeting of minds!!! I can't think of anyone who has mastered the art of persuading against eating a non-vegan diet than these two. Can't wait to listen on Spotify 💚
Two of my favourite vegan advocates!!! Thanks for that wonderful conversation!
I’m so blessed to have a wonderful family. Unfortunately I live in another country so I only see them once a year for Christmas.
The year I went vegan, they were a bit annoyed (especially my mum, she’s the one doing the cooking) but didn’t really engage on the subject.I didn’t really know how to explain it to them.
The following year, I was more prepared thanks to Ed’s videos, and made the parallel with racism, and the fact that they always taught me to avoid doing what I wouldn’t like to be done to myself.
I thought they ignored me, but three months after this, they told me that they totally ditched meat and were working on ditching dairy (French family, cheese is kind of a big deal here).
Right now, my mother sends me pictures of her “cashew camembert every week”. They’ve never been healthier, my father told me, super excited, that he lost 4 kilos since they started.
Unfortunately i have racist family members who call any evidence propaganda
My two favorite activists! Thank you for your generosity and kindness. Please never give up! Look forward to meeting you both some day
How did I not know you had a podcast! Just stumbled upon this on RUclips. Glad to have another good podcast to listen to.
you should !!
i've found every episode so helpful.
i love this video! it communicates ways of debating and speaking with people as a vegan that i haven't thought about. it really made me reflect about how i was talking to people about being vegan. thank you so much!
Thankiu for having her.💚👍😎👍 Stay Safe Ed take care.
Thank you! Again and again 💚 Melanie is an angel on earth, I’m thankful for the impact she is making with her work as with yours. Thank to both of you!! ❤️
That was REALLY GOOD and interesting! Sharing for sure, thank you Ed🙏🏼💗🌱
One of the best vegan talks I’ve ever seen. I usually hear the same things over & over, but Melanie Joy and Earthling Ed bring up perspectives and ideas that most others don’t talk about. Excellent!
LOVE HER! Great episode!
Thank you so much for this interview, it's amazing.
Powerful conversation!! Thank you Ed! Dr Melanie Joy is simply amazing
Hi, I just wanted to thank you for everything you do to inform people about veganism. I am vegan about one year now and I am so thankful for podcasts like this, because I know more and can help explaining veganism better to others.
Thank you and keep going :))
It all comes down to understanding the other, which is compassion...I guess the question is: in what state of mind do we need to be in our relationship with carnists and the only answer I can find is with compassion and understanding, with a strong inner intention of bringing compassion into the world...very often an arduous task though
your toxic contempt is leaking out there mate!
@@carnivore2938 I know, it's a continuous struggle Carnivore...on one hand I'd like to shake you so bad that you wake up and see what's going on out there, but then I have to remember that I was exactly that carnivore guy, so I have to think on how I can reach your heart and reason instead and not to just trying to be right, but also at the same time trying to put aside for a moment the atrocities and suffering that people that buys meat inflict to a multitude of animals every day just for taste...real challenge for me, so lots of toxic, yes, but not that contempt.
@@PM-yz8fx Beautifully put!
Fuipiedra Fui
To understand everything is to know everything.
If we were in another’s place, if we shared their biology, if we had been through their experiences, raised as they had been raised, had beliefs instilled in us in the same manner and at the same moments in our lives, we would be EXACTLY like them. No different.
We owe others compassion not because we believe they will change or that our empathy is shown only in the hope of achieving a greater goal, but because they are human, they are living beings, as are we all. We all deserve infinite love. It is, after all, who we are.
We can change others with tenderness, empathy, gentle and curious questioning and unbound love. This positive and genuine intention is what changes the world.
Very true, so hard to campaign for compassion using anger and agression
Wow, great conversation. Thank you so much
Melanie and Ed, love you both and all the fantastic work you are doing for transformation!
I've read 3 of Dr Melanie Joy's books and I'm so excited to hear that she has a new one out 💚💚 I need to reread them because I do feel that I've lost my understanding and patience towards many friends and family members because they eat animals.
melanie has her own issues, i wouldnt take her advice
if you keep preaching to them the only thing you will do is push them away and become more hostile to you. if you feel like that ditch your friends and go get some vegan friends or just shut up. be vegan but you dont need to preach to everyone.
Excellent, provocative, incisive discussion; ThanksForPosting!
SJWs like this woman dont understand their own psychology let alone meat eaters. Obsession with esternal oppression is all about an identity that lacks a sense of power within
So glad you finally talked to Dr. Melanie Joy! Even though I exclusively eat plant-based and make choices that put animals first, I don't ever label myself vegan or have labels in general but I know some people connect plant-based with vegan. Sometimes it feels like I'm on the other side of someone else as far as "being better than them" with my choices and I don't ever wanna feel that from people who do things different than me because of their upbringing and their current social life. Definitely something I want to always bring with me is to be relatable and compassionate instead of angry and judgmental when they still conduct their lives with indirect harm more than I do (I can be human and infuriated over the matter of oppression) and the fact that I came from the same systematic upbringing. It's important to connect with them than separate ourselves, that's the only way we can get people to have more curiosity and question their own choices to relieve suffering in many areas.
I really love what you do Ed, and I really believe you are the face of a really important movement and something big that is happening. I don't have much income lately since Covid hit, losing my job and taking a new job with less pay. I still believe in you to the degree I'm willing to pledge on Patreon since I don't want to see you go anywhere any time soon. Keep up the hard work, for us and, more importantly, for the animals. Cheers!
Unity
Dr. Joy was 23 in 1989, so she must be 54 years old in this interview. Look how amazing and young she looks! Vegans stay young and healthy. 💪🏻🙌🏻
One of the BEST conversations I've heard on communication for the vegan movement/advocacy but also every day human interaction and relationships! What an inspiration Dr. Melanie is. Thank you for bringing her on the show. Would like to hear her/your thoughts on Cognitive Dissonance, because I believe that a lot of the push back I've been getting from non vegans, is simply a defensive reaction after being confronted by their own inability to change their paradoxical way of life. This is most evident among my very intelligent (both academically and socially) friends and family, i.e. those that are aware of the "Powerarchy".
Part of it is the brainwashing. I don't watch tv anymore but I can't tell you how many times I saw the "Got milk?" commercial growing up. All the sexualized commercials of strong healthy people eating meat or drinking milk. It really is ingrained in our consciousness and social norms. Half the months in the entire year have one major holiday that focuses around eating animal products. People have fond memories of those times.
While I think most people have some subconscious understanding that too much meat/dairy/eggs is bad for you, we work very hard to keep it buried back there. No one wants to hear that bacon is bad for you. No one wants to hear that your doctor is trying to kill you by telling you to eat low carb when you're about to lose your feet due to diabetes. People are quite literally addicted to it.
There is a biological reason as well. Your instincts drive you constantly to eat high calorie foods. It thinks you're going to die if you're not eating all the time. Unfortunately, our bodies were not meant to be in an environment of infinite bounty. So our brain is poking at us to eat and eat and eat because we might starve when the bounty goes away. The other issue is our food is lacking in nutrients. So you eat and eat but you're missing a lot of vitamins so your body drives you to eat more in an attempt to get those vitamins.
Began vegan goes against social norms. Despite what people might say, no one wants to stand out and be too different from their peers. Just saying you're vegan can start fights because (especially male) non-vegans can get so offended by the idea of another man not wanting to eat meat. "Real men eat meat". Well, "real men" don't get erectile dysfunction but don't you dare tell them that.
So enjoyable and insightful. Thank you.
I never discussed with my brother and sisters about veganism, I only showed them my determination and told them in a few simple words that I didn’t feel animals deserved the hell they live into....only one is not vegan yet and my sister in law joined us too, I guess I got lucky, but I am also proud of them
Joey Carbstrong needs to see this. He is so angry towards non vegans and I can’t imagine that this constant anger is healthy for his mind. Understanding the psychology of non vegans and knowing that it isn’t entirely their fault would be so good for him and the people he is trying to convert to veganism.
Joey is reverting to being a small-minded thug. His representation of veganism may play well with with the converted but seems polarizing.
He's fake !
I'm Joey carbstrong
@@joeycarbstrong9219 You're Joey Crabstrong. The strongest crab in the world.
@@haroldwoodson1499 I tried a low crab, plank-based diet but it didn't improve my eyesight. Ruined my teeth, in fact!
Wow a reasonable vegan
A comment for the algorithm.
and thanks so much for your work and your compassion, Ed!
I loved this! Thank you all!!
Stay strong everyone
Nice to have Dr. Joy on. She's always logical and level.
SJWs like this woman dont understand their own psychology let alone meat eaters. Obsession with esternal oppression is all about an identity that lacks a sense of power within
@@carnivore2938 definitely a copy&paste type bot. Sad...
@@oscarv.3775 not as sad as a vegan
@@carnivore2938 whipping out the ol' "no u" card eh?? Nice
Such a phenomenal video Ed, great work!
Thank You Ed for this podcast !
'Don't tell me you'll ruin my meal' ?! So, they know what they are doing is wrong then! Great Podcast Ed, its nice to have such successful professional women in the vegan circle :)
being vegan is very empowering
Great podcast, Ed. I love this approach. You bring to light the most important issues of our generation.
I can't wait until I am back to work. I love listening to podcasts on my drive to and from work.
Thank you for your resilient activism Ed and Dr. Melanie Joy
*I love you all......Live VEGAN*
Faldcnet
@@veganworldorder9394 Faldcnet?
The groomer's back!
@albert fish Why not?
Word
Spot on Ed... if we were not raised Vegan we recognise the immorality of our parentage... I was 50 B4 I went Vegan & now have conflict with my mum & my 16,18, 29 & 30 yr old Children... They have all reduced radically but have been fighting me almost daily for over 4 yrs...my mum quit dairy a yr ago but I still had to beg her not 2 buy it 4 my youngest son, who has lived with her the past 4 years,, he pours milk on his cereals & she only promised not to fund the suffering I've forced her to acknowledge because she is sick of pouring bowlfuls away!
Thanks so much! Powerful concept for so many facets of life!
I could listen to these two eloquent, intelligent people talk all day. Wonderful podcast! Thank you, Ed and Melanie! 🙌💜
This was hugely eyeopening for me. It is really difficult sometimes to communicate with non-vegans with empathy but I know that it is absolutely crucial.
After examining veganism, every which way, it's beef & eggs for the win!
Can the effective communications course be released online too!?! I'm from India #veganism is a growing trend here too!
Are you not vegan already in India?
This was one of the most interesting conversations I have ever heard. Thank you both, deeply.
Such insightful discourse. I look forward to reading some of Dr. Melanie Joy's work, applying this knowledge in my relationships, and sharing this podcast with my vegan friends!
Can you explain to me, why I should be vegan, or explain to me why animal abuse is immoral.
@@islandsfuldkorn no they cant
I am struggling to accept what she said. Basically she is saying that people don't go vegan because they don't feel safe.
So people don't go vegan or at least try reducing their impact or even acknowledge because of social, cultural or tradition pressure.
This is the problem of humanity. People are not interested in doing what is right, nor they do care about others well beings. Being righteous is about doing the right things despite social/cultural pressure.
People are unrighteous, malleable or controllable. This is why people become Nazis, use to racially discriminate because society permitted.
This is why we will never achieve an utopian future and we are heading toward collapse.
Indeed. which is why veganism needs a multi billion dollar around the clock ad campaign for the next 10 years because a very large portion (literally and figuratively lol) of people just do what the adverts are telling them to do.
i would like to listen a podcast with Paul Bashir and Melanie Joy together ))
lol
Out with the trash!
Great episode. Thank you. Both.
You guys are awesome and very calming to listen to. I always learn so much from you Ed. My sister has been a vegan for 10 years and I finally made the switch.
THIS WOMAN IS 55 during this video recording?! WOW. That's just one more reason to be plant-based.
I love the discussion on contempt and shame. So very true about how it comes from a place lacking empathy.
I wish I’d gone vegan in my 20s.
Can you explain to me, why I should be vegan, or explain to me why animal abuse is immoral.
activism fail
@@carnivore2938 I love your name you know.
@@islandsfuldkorn yeah not bad is it.
@@islandsfuldkorn still want an explanation?
Such an important conversation. Thank you Earthling Ed and Dr. Melanie Joy.
The levels of readiness is so on point. My dad keeps saying he thinks he’s ready to become vegan and I hope the time will come soon. My sister will go vegan on and off & I see the readiness and hierarchy there when we chat. I’m really hoping to get my mom on board as well. This was a fabulous discussion.
Also a little off topic, but I’ve been deciding between a biology modified with psychology major or a psychology major, and now Melanie just convinced me... psychology baby 🌱
My mother is a total narcissist. When I call to corona-check in, she goes on about how she FINALLY found meat and chicken at the supermarket. When I tell her not to talk to me about murdered animals because it upsets me, she says, "Oh right, okay. I think I'm gonna make roast chicken tonight." Totally thoughtless, all about her.
@Meshari If you're going to try to milk your children for sympathy you should not be a parent.
Meshari Just because someone birthed you doesn’t mean they can’t be a narcissist or that they even are a good person. Mind your own business. If this person wanted to comment about their mother then that’s their choice.
What does it matter if she talks about eating corpses. Doesn't harm animals talking about eating them? I get your emotional response to her talking about it, but why react this way to make vegans look like snowflakes. Idk though
D S In my opinion it is just insensitive for a parent to continue to bring up eating animals regularly when they have been told by their kids it bothers them. Mostly because it is unnecessary to bring up to your kid who you know is vegan. And sure maybe you slip up and talk about it but to act as if you don’t care and do it knowingly is just not a good way to have mutual respect in a relationship. And I’m no snowflake my family insists on talking about eating meat and how they prepared it and how good it was and I don’t have a meltdown but it for sure makes me think they don’t have empathy or respect for my ethics.
@@Coltivation- that's some good points. I Guess you changed my mind, hm. Loved the podcast btw what an intelligent lady, I'll buy her book, sounds like an interesting read. Take care🌱✌🏼
Vegan 4 life stop hurting helpless animals
@Meshari would you not consider killing a living being that does not want to die hurting?
@Meshari if you pay to eat meat you are just paying sumone else to hurt animals
@Meshari if you are paying for it or are in any other way creating a demand THAN you are causing it
@Meshari you can't kill an animal without pain involved. If you buy meat, you are paying for pain to be caused. Those animals are going through emotional and physical pain until the day they are sent to the slaughterhouse.
@Meshari death can't feel good. If it isn't wanted. What about the torture it goes through its entire short life?
Really amazing, two fantastic humans whom I love in great conversation...all of it makes perfect sense.
Great upload, thanks for this
veganism totally reflects a certain mindset...we believe in compassion and justice
idiotic and anti social more accurate
Carnivore good one!
first
Some of Melanie's books are available as audiobooks! Nice!
Thank you! It was a great podcast.