The "Alpha Males" are kinda sad... feat
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2022
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Even the wolf biologist who came up with the alpha and beta labels is mortified by how that is being used by young men. Completely taken out of context and misappropriated.
Not just taken out of context, that man DISOWNED his theory and said that it was based on bad data, and he's spent the rest of his career trying to wipe that bad understanding out for the reality.
The "alphas" in that original study he guessworked with were unrelated captive wolves under heavy stress and the wolf biologist said using that to model normal wolf pack behavior was like modeling normal adjusted human behavior from an US supermax prison's inmates.
Real wolf pack "alphas" are the parents and the "omegas" are their TEENAGE KIDS, just barely out of being puppies!
Frans De Waal is the biologist, that I am familiar with, who helped popularized the term.
To my understanding, the alpha male or female, at least in primate groups, is the individual who is the best at coalition building within the group, and sharing, not at displays of domination and acts of ostracism as proof of their power…
But all in all, we are humans, and live in cultural formations that are relatively unique to our species. Humans have gotten as far as we have by working together and sharing resources.
@@AlchemicalAudio 💯 Cooperation has been one of our greatest tools for survival. The irony of the wolf analogy is that it has always been the pack that protects the individual and helps it survive. These "alpha male" men don't understand that the lone wolf is essentially doomed to die alone.
@@gsuekbdhsidbdhd Please cite your claim. My understanding is that the pop culture concept of the alpha was wrong.
@@hutchison3379 Yes you are right I confused something
Hope this isn't cringe but these "alpha males" remind me of a quote from GOT- "any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king". Anyone who has to call themselves an "alpha" and show how "alpha" they are is almost definitely just a sad nerd
So true! I love GOT. Exited for House of Dragons.
💯
110%
Reddit moment
@1 1 but that’s something that can be easily proven. And your missing the point, its about be overcompensating
Nerds were fed this Hollywood lie that thier more popular classmates were going to be losers after high school but the reality is that those "cool" kids were actually all around high achievers who got into same selective schools and the same high paying jobs. I graduated high school in 06' and every single person in our top 10 was a varsity athlete. Half of our debate team played contact sports. The lacrosse team were a bunch of emo nerds. The coolest kids were in the marching band. The nerd/jock dynamic just isn't real anymore; I've never witnessed it during my lifetime.
So because the nerd/jock dynamic doesn't exist anymore, would you say older men who were nerds in their youth are still holding on to those tropes and thus more prone to be incels?
@@princessm8977 definitely I see it all the time in the anime community. Older anime fans often times get mad at younger fans because anime is more mainstream and gets enjoyed publicly now ,where as they used to get bullied for enjoying these same things
Yup. There's a reason this demo starts at around 14-15. That's when the youth hit their development stride and these people are made painfully aware just how lacking they are. And if that didn't do it, college sure will. I was "smart" enough to get in but I am by no means smart and was constantly reminded by being surrounded by so many amazing people.
@@princessm8977 As someone who had their childhood before the explosion of the internet, I think that was a big equalizer. The barrier of library access, free time and high level reading skills to gain information being reduced or removed for a lot of people helped to raise all boats so to speak.
People who were nerds because they weren't _able_ to participate in other things had lost a lot of their edge, for sure. Meanwhile, a lot of people got more access to the niche, nerdy stuff and "nerd" became mainstream (coincidentally right around the popularity of Pokemon and Harry Potter).
So if "nerd" was your _only_ thing, you lost it. And if you held on to it without evolving, you became (more) bitter and insular.
@@princessm8977 To be fair, life experience shapes perception. When I was younger if you were a black nerd that was into anime and metal/punk music it was rough and it's worse if you didn't act or talk a certain way if you catch my drift, not only are you a target for bullying and pushed isolation BUT it was incredibly hard to find people just like out of the internet. My experiences from my childhood and teen years have shaped me to become a lot more passive, cynical, cold, reserved, and even at times question what's my place in black culture. I had friends who got beaten outside of school for wearing metal shirts back in high school, only for those same bullies wearing vintage Misfits, Metallica and Iron Maiden as fashion trends. It sucks that a lot of these older men who were nerds in their youth are extremely susceptible to becoming incels, but if your prime memories of your youth were getting bullied and ostracism from your peers I can't blame them for becoming jaded.
This is what the manosphere should be like. Men having real conversations about us and our own issues as men.
Yeah but it's hard to monatize this. Tate does and MLM scheme and has other ways of getting young guys to toss money at him repeatedly. Actually fixing people isn't a great business model when you lose customers.
@@blasphimus You need the repeat business.
@@blasphimus you are correct that it isn’t lucrative to have healthy discussions about manhood and masculinity but it’s what we need because this is the only way we can grow as men. It’s sad and despicable that it is more profitable to tear down “modern” women especially Black women online and on RUclips.
@@johniebaltimore In all fairness, that’s always been a pretty profitable grift. It’s just annoying how those guys and their audience spend so many years doing the same routine to feel good about themselves. Then, they wake up ten years later and their situation hasn’t changed (or it’s worsened). It should eventually occur to them that they need to focus on themselves and stop using women to cope with their low self-worth. But that day never comes.
@@LoneWulf278 thank you for your response ❤️ You are so right. I’m like us men as a whole can’t keep shucking and jiving around accountability. The constant scapegoating gets on my nerves. Like you said it just keeps getting worse because so many men are living in delusion instead of actively working on themselves.
alpha male: im entitled to everything
also alpha male: I don't have women - thats ok, women aren't people. i don't have a satisfying sex life - thats ok, sex is stupid. I don't have friends or influence - that's ok, im a sigma!
lol nailed it
Buddy tate literally has all of them.
you can make fun of them all you want, but they make some, if not many solid points that are necessary
@@AC-mp7cx like?
There's a lot of Beta males in the comment section
I always feel so sorry for David Mech, the guy who came up with the term "Alpha Male". He made an honest mistake in his research on wolves and once he found out he spent the rest of his life trying to stop people using it because of how wrong he was. Yet it stuck because it provided an excuse for domination. Imagine accidentally creating a toxic movement and being unable to stop it, all because you loved dogs so much 🥺
Similar story with the word incel. It was started by a woman to explain a phenomenon and hijacked by some shady elements and turned into what it is today
thats a real tragedy.
Frans De Waal.
You mean.
Like Red Pill?
I once knew a self proclaimed "chad" in college. He told me he was going to a networking event to gain at least a thousand contacts and I lightly exhaled and said "That's going to be a long day." His smile immediately faded and he began yelling at me for laughing at him. I was so confused and before I realized that my soft chuckle had triggered him, he left the room.
Oh wow.
Well told!
Yeesh.
Patrick Bateman tendencies
Alpha af
"Being bullied creates an intensely perverted understanding of human interaction"
And that fact really screwed up how I view other people and colors every interaction I have with others to this day. I'd describe the nature of it as "adversarial". I'm far removed from high school, so I'm getting better, but man that contributed to a lot of lasting pain
100%. I wasted so much of my life basically hiding from any potential negative interaction due to issues from bullies and parents that dgaf.
Sneako has gained 200k subs and like 800k tiktok followers in the past 2 weeks while going thru what I (as a person with bipolar 2) interpret as being some form of a manic episode. The medication bit makes a lot of sense. Glad you touched on it early cause that may be one of the next discourses - the Andrew Tate social media effect (problematic beliefs, young impressionable male fanbase, rapid content output). Healthy Boyz Only content keeping up with all of it will probably be a struggle lol
I am outta the loop, cause idk what any of that means
@@antgrantrant fiq may discuss on a stream at some point because yeah literally none of these words are in the bible
Hope it's just a grift and he's doing it for money. Otherwise, I hope he gets back on his meds.
@@NoahSamsen in a constant flux of: ignorance is bliss vs knowledge is power. Determining which subjects belong in which category has become complicated in the age of internets.
its sad, I enjoyed sneakos content (not necessarily him as a person) because it was enjoyable and interesting. Now he is just down the rabbit hole
The fact that incels and “alphas” care so much about sex and relationships to the point where they view it as a task rather than something to enjoy is quite concerning, and this is coming from somebody who used to have a similar mindset. I used to think of dating as a task and never cared much for sex. When I did get a partner I saw it as an achievement or a flex, especially since I’m quite nerdy and had nerdy friends. Of course the relationship didn’t last long because I didn’t know the person before I sought to date them and I just wasn’t an affectionate person. Afterwards I just felt like dating wasn’t for me and I still feel like that’s the case.
I think it’d be beneficial for most people to not have their importance so tied up in their ability to find a sexual and/or romantic relationship. Too many people are dissatisfied with their appearances and believe that makes them undateable, there are many men who believe women owe them sex and/or dating, etc.
I was doing some poking around in pick-up spaces for a bit, and the weirdest thing about it to me was how many people would talk about trying to get casual sex the way gamers talk about grinding levels in an MMORPG....
Do you think the importance you tied to it may have come from media or people around you? I suppose it depends on the specific culture you grew up in, but media often presents the 'hero/protagonist' getting the trophy girl at the end.. or romantic movies with the aim being to get the girl/guy etc (even some comedies have that aim - American Pie, Road Trip..)
This was my 2020 experience word for word. Wasn't interested in growing with a friend, just wanted someone as a companion.
I used to be frustrated with courting women until I realized that quality time is a love language and should be reserved for intimacy. I take some time to get to know someone and be comfortable with them but after that, if I’m not receiving love, I’m wasting my time. Sex however, is a luxury, not a necessity. If we’re attracted, comfortable, and the time is right, it’ll happen, but if not I’m good. Otherwise it’s empty or a waste of time
@@gwh3013 I obviously can't speak for OP, but I think it's definitely a mix of both. I've spoken to people about this conundrum before and the response I often get is, "well, who's pressuring you? I've never done that!" This is a frustrating response, mostly because it's overly eager to absolve responsibility rather than explore how influence is exerted through suggestion that may be unconscious. I think growing up in a heteronormative environment especially exacerbates this attitude of: Normal = Wife, 2 kids and a dog by your mid 20's, just like the Bible says. This just isn't true, this isn't how everybody works. This isn't even how the VAST majority of people work. Many young people are unconsciously (and, let's be real, consciously) pressured through media and their home life, into adopting a lifestyle they just don't want, but feel like they have to take on because "it's the way things are." See every, "my bitch wife" boomer meme to get a sense of this phenomenon in the wild.
Edit: So, yea. It's both, it's hegemonic, blah blah, you get me.
"I'm a nerd but I'm not a lame" is the perfect line to describe me and a million of black nerds all across the country
I don’t know about that one, because most black nerds I knew all had the similar experience of being called a lame, square, cornball, and at worst an “Oreo.” There’s a reason of the stereotype that black nerds (both male and female) tend to date outside their race and talk down on black people. But that’s just my experiences with hanging out with black nerds my whole life.
I'm pretty content with being lame.
@@WhoBlah21 I...kinda didn't really have that experience in high school? Maybe I'm too young or it was an area thing but I never got shit for liking anime and shit being honest, and by the time I was in 11th grade in 2017, people who weren't "nerds" that I was cool with were asking me for anime recs.
Nah most nerds are certainly lame af. Mad soft, emotional, have maybe at best had sex with 5 women since 14 and they were all less than a 6, always hung out with other lames, didn't play sports with any real skill or talent etc. It's a real thing.
@@KiraDaBeastNY same. In fact I was unabashedly reading thick books in class from K-12 and not paying attention to the teacher, and never got any harassment, or anything from my fellow students except maybe for a "bruh she's reading again".
Sneako has gone off the rails. He recently went off on a female art youtuber named Monica Hernandez for talking about her experience dating older men. His rabid followers proceeded to flood her comments with their perspectives. I'm praying this is just another internet Era that will soon be over. It's not healthy or productive at all.
Yeah I have no sympathy for Sneako. He also got into a feud with D’Angelo Wallace. He also cheated on his gf and tried to justify it as a “man’s need is important”.
Yeah I follow Monica and she did a video response. And that dude has a lot of problems. I don’t think he should be on the internet.
@@ozymandias___868 there was sneako/hasan beef? i need the vod asap
@@ozymandias___868 I saw that but didn't entertain it
I saw that. What a loser, esp going after my girl Monica
“So alpha that they’ve lost their humanity.”
That’s a great line. As someone that never got into the manosphere (because 56k was just becoming a thing when I grew up), I find critique of the manosphere to be fascinating. It’s a MASSIVE industry built on outdated ideas. Like all the bad concepts that Gen X ran away from has been repackaged into a modern day “Dude, bro” attitude, but is secretly just classic sexism and toxic masculinity that one day their children will run away from too.
Biology isnt outdated. THe world is sexist. Another soy boy speaking about things he has no idea about. Stay in your wheelchair old man.
fuck humanity. The rules of the animal kingdom still are in place among humans.
This i remember I tried to explain this to anyone that this forced ideology will only turn their children into their worst enemies; this will cause a rebel out of them
@@yuumi603 you are a yummi main - your opinion doesnt matter.
@@libertybelllocks7476 don't be childish and I don't even main Yuumi since I don't really play league of legends. Just join the fandom for the Lore
Sneako made a response stream to a RUclipsr a follow, who was talking about her experience with predatory older men. He insulted her the whole time, while simultaneously talking about how fuckable she was. It was incredibly disturbing. There was something almost violent about how he was speaking about her.
That’s honestly disgusting and he’s so wrong for that, shame he’s gone down this path for clout, I really think he’s having some type of breakdown. Can you link the video by any chance?
He sounds gross and needs to grow up🙄 I hope she doesn't internalize his words
"He seems so cool, until you take him out of his element. then he's fragile."
Ah yes, what this old white dude calls The Fonzie Effect. In Arnold's he is *FONZIE* , full stop. Outside of Arnold's, he's a guy who has an "office" in the men's room, dates girls that are still in high school, wears a leather jacket, doesn't appear to have a full-time job, and appears stuck in time and unchanging while people around him have experiences and grow up and have families and kids.
He's that guy who hung out in the mall parking lot (before the Internet existed) who would gather a pool of younger guys who would worship him because he was older, had beer and pot, a bitchin' party van (with blacklight posters and a lava lamp in the back) or motorcycle, and knew all sorts of weird cool shit. It took his acolytes YEARS sometimes to realize that this guy had no real job, no one he was serious about, no prospects, nothing constructive to offer the world.
Earlier generations might have called this guy a Great Gatsby type. Point is: actual adults never wasted their time with him, because they could spot his bullshit from a mile away, but the young and inexperienced get overawed and conned by him, which is how he got everything good he ever got in his life.
Damn
You say all this, but he still lives a lavish, wealthy, and very successful life having the ability to do anything he wants on his own time. The "outside" to this guy's element is living like the rest of us, which he wouldn't be bothered to do again.
You could have spoken any of the 7,151 languages but you chose FACTS. 🔥
Love the fonzie reference too ❤️
@@eastwaters4082 no the outside to his element is when he got dragged by Hasan in that debate
This sounds so classist
Over-reliance on social media is so detrimental to a young man’s growth. Social media is valuable, but it also enables the worst parts of us, our worst impulses. Misery loves company, as they say, and people can fester in their own bitterness through social media communities if they go unchecked.
Social media and most things that we enjoy like youtube and others have reduced social functions into a currency that only seeks to justify and perpetuate itself. Its no wonder that most of it relies on shame and negativity to keep itself going.
It is giving people fake accomplishment. I think that is the worst aspect of social media. People think they gain something from all this shit. That is the psychology that these apps and successful influencers are exploiting for their own gain. People replace real accomplishments with internet validation. And all that shit is hollow as fuck, which makes them more miserable and continues to use the internet to escape/relieve that misery. Generating this negative feedback loop. Instead of getting ego boosts from doing something real, they get it from likes, bullying, and watching other people get bullied. Meanwhile their material conditions remain the same. The loneliness and isolation remains the same. The helplessness and worthlessness remain the same. It is no wonder why people feel hopeless and helpless when this is where they are looking for hope and help.
Social media can really fuck with men because a lot of dudes are insecure and there's nobody that tells us how to deal with it. A lot of men are insecure in their dating lives and you get resentful and hateful because it seems like everyone is getting laid by super models when most people just aren't.
@@walterbiggenback4678 and the reason why it is reduced into a “currency” and a commodity to consume if you will is because of capitalism.
Early stages of social media was just people trying it all and putting in honest effort to communicate with each other online.
But in the last 10 years, it’s been exploited and purposefully transformed into a space to sell you things, sell you personalities, and sell you compartmentalized company, ie manosphere
ruclips.net/video/q9UXyRXNsL0/видео.html
Think a lot of these dudes don't realize that they're just repeating a cycle of pain caused by not having a good male role model in their life.
And surrounding themselves with negativity in forums, channels that encourage you to be bitter, cold, just basically being miserable
I don’t think it’s about having a father figure or good role model in our lives, it’s about the broader idea of masculinity and what it means to be a man.
@@WhoBlah21 that starts with the male figure they have or don't have growning up.
@@Rossoneri2 It starts with your parents, but as you grow you it becomes a multitude of impact which could be your environment, the media/entertain you consume, your circle of friends, and the partner you want to pursue. I grew up with both parents who loved and raised me the best way that could possible and I'm grateful for that. However my father didn't raise me to look up to him as a male role model to follow, he raised me to become a well rounded and adjusted adult who can adapt to everchanging world.
When you become so Alpha you cant enjoy life you've basically punked yourself out of enjoying life experience. Never made sense to me.
Every time I see another one of those alpha male channels or influencers I thank god for my father. I’m so glad I don’t have to run to TikTok for an example.
Good for you!
Shout outs to bros whose dad was a MVP in their formative years!
That's great 🙂
Geeks and nerds have the potential to be corrupted by acquiring any amount of power, but I also think it’s a certain type of nerd. The “king nerd” type. They secretly believe that they are entitled to success and influence, so they overvalue it and don’t develop any compassion or empathy as a result. In a sense, it’s some perpetual “revenge” fantasy they live out.
My ex gf’s brother fit this mold perfectly and was somewhere between transitioning from nerd to “alpha”. Failed rap career? Check. Failed Twitch streamer? Check. Buying a big gold chain with gold mushroom pendant while in his late 20’s and living at home? Check. Rick and Morty worship? Check.
What really drove it home and when I decided I had no interest in being friends with the guy though was when we were all watching Rick and Morty together and he out of nowhere says that he wishes he could be as smart as Rick so he could just make everyone feel stupid all the time. Fictitious godlike intelligence and all he cared about was using it to hurt others. I do not need that type of person around me.
literally me
started working out and ghosting bitches out of spite years ago
@@6maniac6metal6 Sad bc Rick and morty can be funny at times but the show can be a toxic power fantasy for the worst people
@@j0hnicide I hope the working out got you to a better headspace! Do you have any good place where you live where you can do nature exercising? Work-outs in the middle of green stuff always makes my monkey brain happy and there's a small flock of ducks at the botanical park where I go for my exercising when weather permits it, they're cute and they like when I feed them peas after I'm done with my 15 minutes.
@@trinityclay8732 I’ll take R&M over Family Guy any day, it’s a fun show. But the Rick worship is so weird. For a long time I thought it was just the power fantasy for these guys, but at this point I think it is more about Ricks toxicity they idolize. I don’t know but it’s gross.
Thank you for these videos.
Me and my brother didn't have our father around but grew up super close...
Life drifted us apart, him into the Manosphere, me into the Womanosphere, (due to so many of the issues you discussed displayed across all your videos) and we argued like hell due to it, and developed toxic relationships separately as well.
I hit 30 this year and had enough, and so did my brother. We started having REAL conversations, instead of trying to win.
Found your videos and oh man, the validation we feel!! Especially him. It's like being heard, he could hear me better, and vice versa, and now after binge watching your long or even short videos we engage in even longer conversations after. We've both even taught our mom some things!
We've lost some family and friends along the way in this growth, but the pain of those endings have been worth so many of it's beautiful beginnings.
Thank you for your words, and this space. It's no joke breaking generational curses, but MAN does it make it's burden alot lighter.
So to FD, myself, my brother, and all you who may or may not read this comment but have similar stories and are doing the work: I'm proud of you. Of all of us.
And maybe more importantly, I'm just HAPPY for us
Whoa! I’m on this journey too. I hope that my brother and I can break through like this as well. Unfortunately I cut my mother out of my life but he still has her in his. When mom holds such (stupid ass) beliefs, it’s tough to break free from that way of being on your own. Less education makes the situation exponentially worse. First Gen college grad probs. Let’s not even mention grad school. 🙄
@@Shay31288 Trust ME,I understand! I have had an off and on relationship with my mother due to this! It's hard for so much of the older generation to break bad habits, and even WORSE beliefs.
What comforted me was not the process of changing those from the past, but helping those that will reflect the future.
Yeah I definitely understand this. Me and my brother are the same way. I know the day is coming where our different ideologies will create a fork in the road of our relationship.
This is beautiful, what a journey!
peace to you & yours brother
Breath of fresh air. I, like most men was exposed to a lot of these red pill content and agreed with the self improvement aspect, and identifying toxic behaviour in certain women. But the more you consume, the more you get recommended, you start to see a very clear hatred in the community and its rampant in certain channels and especially the comment section. Just one big circle jerk bout women ain't being shit. Now, it's not that I am disqualifying all of these points, but the problem is the narrow mindedness. I rarely see men take accountability for themselves, it's always the chick being the problem. I also consume the "womansphere" stuff too and it's the same thing. It's a good to see a different perspective but to be expected, there community is filled with a lot of man haters. People need to broaden their mind and not look through a tunnel.. So you had a shitty experience, you watch a channel that talks bout shitty experiences, you interact with like minded individuals that also had shitty experiences and its just a festering vibe of misery. Not healthy. Its not a gender thing, it's a people thing.
They just became what they hate a male version of a feminist
Well said.
Facts!
Absolutely 💯💯💯🙏🏼
I wish I could bookmark yt comments.
Nerds are today's bullies. I'm also a 90s nerd, and I hate that Elon Musk is now an edge lord going to tweet wars with his disabled employees. Andrew Tate was a chess player. The anime fandom is rife with toxic patriarchal nerds. What has happened to us?
Gotta love how it all comes down to hierarchies no matter what space you're in.
Yup, they don't want to buck the trend, they want to keep the status quo
@@somniatic Or just just flip the hierarchy and so they're the ones at the top
Always … same in the womens space
Last time I saw Derrick Jaxn was in that awkward "apology' video with his wife. I hope SHE'S okay.
Claiming to be an “alpha” is tantamount to admitting to be an incel.
The word is now tainted, a shame really
Or Joffrey from Game of Thrones yelling "I'm the king!!"
@@Takashii85 it started out tainted since the guy that wrote the paper on alpha wolves later came out and said that his research had been wrong since it was based on wolves in captivity
@@terrystevens3998 also later studies figured out that the “alpha” wolf of the pack was really the “older parent” of the pack. Their behaviors were to scout out hunting grounds, dangerous areas, breeding grounds, and then lead the pack to said areas. That’s why they “lead” the pack.
Younger wolves followed the older wolf’s lead.
So to change to our own human dynamic, the “alpha” isn’t dictated toward males, but anybody delegated with the leading role that give guidance and safety for others to follow, such as The Teacher in a classroom, the firefighter captain, the coach of a sports team, the doctor treating your wounds, etc.
And yet we have all of these misguided men who thinks they are “alpha” but have no leading roles.
We really need stop using the word incel to generally describe men expressing frustration in their dating lives and our gender dynamics.
I swear one of the best selling points of liberation is that it's MORE FUN. The end goal for oppressive movements always seems to be an awful world nobody would enjoy living in, not even the "winners." So either the grifters have to lie and say no no the good part comes after this or start insisting that wanting to be happy is a failing and you should sacrifice everything for some lofty goal that is good because I said so. It's tragic.
"I'm an alpha male" is one of that interesting class of statements that are inherently self-negating, like responding "yes" to "are you asleep?".
It's also an example of people who are somehow both themselves and parodies of that identity simultaneously.
It's like calling yourself charming. Or, in a different way, like calling yourself rational.
@@Fishandchipsguvnah "Skeptical" is another one I've heard, the amount of self-described skeptics that really are just conspiracy nuts...
Honestly, that bit about how Tate might've genuinely thought startling that guy was a win is very poignant.
I wasn't really bullied when I was younger, but you gotta imagine, if niggas just fuck with you everyday, and you let them get their way, *you'd* definitely feel like you "lost" and the bully "won", even if that isn't true in any substantial way.
If you feel a certain way, and you don't care to try to understand how other people actually feel, you're probably going to assume that other people think the same way you do. "You're weak because *I* felt weak when I was in your position", that type of shit.
I always tell my son that our actions are the truest representation of who we are and if we have to constantly tell everybody that we're something then we're trying to convince ourselves more than others...
Honestly to me it feels as if in the manosphere, the human psychological experience has been reduced to metaphorical anecdotes of random animal behaviours, coupled with a list of statistical data that has been curated with very minimal understanding of the difference between causation and correlation. But that's just my take.
That’s a pretty good take
I love this. What I’d add to the whole talk about really having fun and having a nice private moment is to make sure it stays private after the moment. Go frolicking in a field and absolutely do not post it to Instagram. Go see the new Thor movie and don’t tell anybody your opinion. Learn to have nice private experiences that are fully your own.
Edit: not to say these things are inherently bad but it’s good to learn to to keep things fully your own periodically without it being even slightly influenced by others insight or expectations.
Yeah! Or only share it in a way where you're basically screaming at the void and closing the door, never to look at reactions, if you HAVE to let it out 'cause you feel Inspired and The Art Must Be Unleashed.
You know sir, for as much as youtubers espouse the value of caring about their peers and promoting smaller creators, I do not see anyone else quite as committed to talking and collaborating with their peers as much as you and I just wanted to say that I think it’s great. I’ve been getting closer and closer to making my own video essays for a long time and this camaraderie of yours is really about to be the thing that pushes me across that threshold, just maybe
It just all boils down to a lot of these men still hung up on past traumas and they're still that little boy mentally and they built a suit of armor around themselves to survive. Moral of the story is that men need healing and space to be themselves
Also the differential power dynamics allows them to behave this way whereas traumatized women continually get gaslit and undervalued for their labor (see gender pay gap)
Nothing says "I'm an alpha male" like having to tell people you're an alpha male all the time.
I wish geeks and nerds were more..."in", or loved if that made sense....even encouraged. I mean, folks frown on Snoop in his current years because he's not thugging or banging like that anymore. "he's soft now", no, he grew up hard, and there were stupid nerdy things he wanted to do growing up in that environment, but couldn't because of the "Culture" (see Kendrick) that kept him in survival mode. Now that he's survived all that he's been through, he's happier and can do all those stupid, nerdy, corny, funny things he wanted to do growing up, or wanted to do WHEN he got older. Like doing banger R&B joints in 2007, changing to Snoop Lion (and back), among other things. A crip in my apt complex said it best to his lady, "We can't be gangsters all the time." (He also fux with the Ninja Turtles heavy and will stand on that proudly.)
Nerds, geeks and dweebs are dope. Just saying, let your black kids be nerds, let them be queer, or a little bit weird or "sensitive" within reason depending on their environment. It's better than holding them back and suppressing the royalty inside their DNA. Just causes more pain.
So well said!
Exactly! Snoop finished the main quest of his life, he enjoying his side quests now.
Everyone should enjoy their side quests
@@junky2fk I'm almost betting there's a year he of his life (in age) that he never believed he'd get to live either. And he made it. 😁
SAY IT AGAIN FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!
Beautifully said
So I got into Darksouls through the first game, and what attracted me to it was Comunal Knowledge. Basically it was never about fighting Hard for me, but fighting smart. And so the initial fun was finding cheap ways to beat bosses with help from friends. But the "high skill"/Get Gud players are kinda poisoning the well. This is why I love Elden Ring, because it's bringing that kinda play back. Giving advice to new players on how to make the game easier, or letting them call on me to beat the boss's but for them.
That honestly is a Philosophy I kinda take into life. Life sucks and is hard, so if you aren't making it easier for other people then why the hell are you still playing?
Well said
I for one appreciate that you don't mind being basically the digital big brother who beats hard bosses for the little siblings, speaking as an only kiddo who only had his cousin-in-college boss-slayer, who was available once every three months.
(I wish more games had a "bro can you cheese this for me?" button.)
Man you take your life philosophy from Dark Souls too? Mine's is more right on the nose. Life sucks and is hard, but perhaps one day I can be so grossly incandescent. Praise the sun and embrace it all.
We need another Mr Rogers.
"You wanna see the new Thor?" And that actually touches on a major problem. These people can't go enjoy *anything* these days because their circles are always using whatever they can in pop culture and society at large to continue weaving this narrative net for ensnaring the people they make their money off of. Just look at what they're saying about that movie. I can't even imagine the tirade Tate would go on. He'd probably walk out very early during the runtime just to have a huge fit of angsty indignation. I believe him when he says he doesn't enjoy sex. I think the man has never had a woman love him in his entire life.
I think bullying is behind a lot of the hypertoxicity in Silicon Valley type places, those nerds all got bullied in school then their professional skill and privilege gave them power over others and they paid that shit forward
Paid forward? What does that mean? Is it some kind of USA phrase?
@@maryamkim1281 basically just getting back at someone. Or bringing back toxicity.
@@waynesmith7746 oh, ok. Thanks.
@@maryamkim1281 I think "pay it forward" is an idiom that started somewhere in the 2000's in North America, where people would, literally, say "pay it forward" when they paid for something for other people and instead of owing that person the money, you "owed" helping out someone else who was short on money buying something.
Now "pay it forward" can be used figuratively to say "pass it onward" -- you "pay forward" what someone did to/for you by doing that to someone else.
@@neoqwerty ah, thank you very much. I had never heard it before but thanks to you, understand it far better now with your helpful explanation.
All I have to say about these manosphere and redpill men is most the people I know don’t talk to them. The man in my life who live traditional lifes . Have families, religious, or “providers” think these men are strange af. They speak about a lifestyle that they truly can never have acting like this. The most masculine men I’ve known my entire life, have cried around me. They showed emotion other than anger and we’re NOT shamed for it. The women they were with comforted them and still respect them as men to this day. Idk where we get this idea that man have to be pieces of shot with no connection to anyway to be masculine. The reality is most these men will end up sad and depressed. It’s just a statistical fact at this point. Because the only men I know like them are sad and depressed. Wife’s left them/cheated, kids don’t really like them, there family barely tolerates them, and they are just all around terrible people. So any guy if think you need to be like this trust me it will be your undoing, mark my words.
Ps im from the south, bi racial, and my father wasn’t around much. My male role model was my mothers father. He is the epitome of masculinity. Farmer, hunter, railroad worker in th 70s-90s, worked on a fishing boat for a couple of years, also part time mechanic, and he was not some stoic asshole. He is a kind, empathetic, and honest man. His father was the same way and when my grandpa cries all the women around STILL respect him. So whatever bullshit these guys are selling, I’m not buying.
I'm happy I realized the fallacies of the manosphere when I did. I was also lost looking for guidance but then realized I did not want to hide my emotions and treat women in a manner as if I was playing a game. The root of most of the red pill movement was trauma. And that in of itself invalidated it to an extent for me. Because where does it end? And when do I get to settle down and allow myself to be happy and vulnerable with a partner? The manosphere ultimately leads to a life of loneliness and insecurity. There is no blueprint to how to be a man. Any person regardless of sex should just strive to be themselves because that's all you have at the end of the day
I think the only real "blueprint" to being a man is... realizing that it's something only you can determine, as part of your identity, and no one else can gatekeep your manhood from you even if they try to make you feel like less of one for not "manning the right way".
You're a man because you recognize you're a man, as odd as that circular-looking logic might sound like.
@@neoqwerty yea essentially what I was trying to say. How can someone tell you how to act like what you are when you act like what you are by simply existing
There is hope with intelligent black men expressing themselves. More please. Intelligence counts.
It’s definitely needed!
I didn't know you had a career with JJS. Thank you for your service, and I hope you understand I'm writing this with the best sincerity and gratitude I can convey. The care and understanding of our incarcerated youths is so important.
The sad secret at the core of all of these people is that they're not masters of anything. Their entire mental makeup is utterly dependent on the approval of others to reflect their fantasy "alpha" status. They have to extract submission from others or the whole thing falls apart; ironically they're also utterly dependent on the people they try to put themselves over for some kind of identity. These guys all got bullied at a young age, and saw their high school bullies get the girl they couldn't, get invited to the parties they weren't. So they internalized the lesson that dominance = acceptance, when in adult reality it's the opposite: nobody of any self-worth wants to hang out with someone with a pathological need to constantly shove them down. They've built their self-concept on a formula for being toxic and unlikeable, all in the name of fighting an endless unwinnable battle against the long-gone phantasms of their high school memories.
Bravo 👏👌
hello fd, i just want to talk about how insightful i find your commentary on masculinity. i'd love for you to respond to more of the "grey area" channels and aspects of "manosphere content", since your section on aba and preach in your recent essay was so well done. there's this youtuber named hamza who does the whole "male self-improvement" thing and i wonder what your thoughts on him and others like him are. i'm really excited that so many great youtubers like you and veridis joe are bringing these conversations to light and helping educate men on how to self-improve in a way that is empathetic and conscious
Hamza is kinda in that Gary Vee space. I'm not a fan of his essentalist views of masculinity but he doesn't seem that bad just... idk a bit silly
@@signifiedbsides1129 I'd watch a video of you breaking down his channel.
I've been watching some more Left content after going down the alt right rabbit hole. I totally understand why you don't agree with his views on masculinity
@@signifiedbsides1129 What is wrong with essentialist views of masculinity?
The saddest part is all the manosphere content doesn’t leave the vulnerable enough space for self reflection because it demands constant attention to their BS.
Exactly, it fills their time
i could've listened to you guys talk about this for 4 hours
Thank you for publishing this conversation -- it's got a lot of important stuff that (sadly) a lot of people I know need to hear.
What seems to be like why so many super successful people seem to act like complete narcissistic psychopathic assholes is because the current economic culture that we have kind of rewards that kind of behavior
And most decent people don't really crave the accumulation of social or economic power.
Mostly because we aren't willing to f****** screw every other person around us to achieve that s***.
And most people's goals in life tend to be pretty simplistic
This
That lack of joy reminds me of one RP dude I chatted with. I asked him in the chat "why do something if it doesn't make you happy?" His response was literally "Real men are too busy achieving greatness to care about seeking joy like a b***h". That is my reason I think that what their doing is not gonna work and lead to the rope in the long term.
This might be the Team up of the century love to see this.
"You're trying to alpha male the shit out of human experience. Have a conversation for once without treating it as an obstacle to overcome. Enjoy yourself."
Genuinely profound and valuable words in response to the "alpha male" phenomenon. I've been trying to live my life this way in the face of all the other alpha males there who are needlessly trying (and failing) to dominate their way through life.
The pay it forward aspect of the bullying and attacks are just so sad. They were torn down and they just want to tear others down too. Good points.
Got introduced to Joey way back from the "Black Cosplayers" video. Love the content from that channel.
These clips are always so inciteful, I wish had more time to watch the full streams
all men should read The Will to Change by bell hooks; one of the only books to succinctly describe the ways men are hurt by the gender roles they enforce, and how to work around it to pursue a greater liberation of all women and men from the confines of gender
This
🎯🎯🎯
seeing you team up with all of my fave creators is truly a banquet for the soul
F.D. and Joe in the same vid? Dope! Been subbed to both for awhile. Love both their content.
Great conversation!!!! “Gamifying life” ✨
The tribalism is what drive this...having to be a part of your 'group" instead of being a human being first
Thank you guys for speaking on this!!!
I remember crossing by a snippet of Andrew Tate talking about looking for happiness and he basically said "if you a man and you try to reflect about your life and ask yourself if you are happy than you are looking at life worng cuz even you aren't happy you still gotta live your life and be on the grind and blah blah blah, so for men looking for happiness you should look rather you are making money and being respected (i.e being an Alpha Male) and that's what should make you happy and fulfillment in life"
That's when I knew this guy was different 🤣
Off topic but F.D.’s laugh is pure gold
Sagging started being a "style" for young brothers in South Central LA, Compton, Watts etc. when I was in the 7th or 8th grade. never caught on with me having come from Oakland, and then rural Louisiana before arriving in Carson CA / Compton in 81'.
I spent my money on looking "GQ" in the 80's.. I never would have thought that "style" would last so long, and spread so far.
not usually into clips, but dude you're killing the clips, i can sit and listen to your clips all day, oh it's half an hour
bro the way you talk about masculinity, not like "classical" hegemonic masculinity, but like de facto modern masculinity with all its pitfalls and wrong turns and what it could aspire to look like in healthy well-adjusted dudes is such a breath of fresh air. one of the realest and most well versed dudes out here. keep it up man.
I think one source of anger/unhappiness from the red/black pill community is the stress that comes from the duality of wanting to be themselves before they interacted with the content, but also be a “high value man” that the content is trying to instill in them. When really being yourself, and the alpha community version of a high value man can’t mutually exist.
14:05 “I’m a nerd, but I ain’t a fucking lame.” Lol
That’s gotta be on a shirt or something
@@TerabyteTyler fr lol
Imma be straight up, that quote actually hurts. I’m a black nerd who was called a lame, square, and Oreo by the other black kids when I was in school just because I didn’t sound, look, or act a certain way if you catch my drift. I really wish black culture could be less restricting on our personalities and expressions.
@@WhoBlah21 yeah man, i feel you. I went through the same thing in my Chicano community, I was called pocho, gringo, and beaner, for like “nerd shit” by other Chicanos. Seeing guys like FD that are highlighting this problem is showing that attitudes are changing towards “nerd things” which is good. Like now, everyone likes anime, manga, comics lol.
@@123pancho7 Yeah, I'm glad that free expression is becoming a lot more acceptable in our communities bro
Great convo! Thanks!
@16:30 that kinda breaks your heart. People overlook how much good can come from a simple hug.
Okay, now this is an amazing collab
The enjoyment part is key. And I think because of the pandemic, inflation, etc., more and more people have lost that capacity (or so they feel). That is sad and also very dangerous. Great conversation!
Back in the day I had a friend who fell into the pick up artists community, said it was motivated by self improvement. Anyway, he insisted that I read the mystery method book. One thing I thought was obvious about it was that every pick up artists in the book was desperate for validation from other men in their community, which, ironically, mirrored the personality attributes that they claimed to be exploiting in women. But they seemed to be completely oblivious to this.
Sneako kinda personally hurt the most. I found him like about a year ago and really vibed with his attitude and especially his editing. He felt like the sorta insecure guy who was still funny and charismatic, with a good level of i don’t give a fuck. But over time his takes got worse and worse and once he started streaming on his second channel i realized how fucked up his opinions really are. Really fucking disappointing
I found out about his second channel a bit ago, damn he is insufferable…
B Sides is quickly becoming one of my favorite channels, love it
Good conversation, and I went back to watch Daftpinas vid with Joe, and yeah that comment section definitely proves those in the manosphere don't really have people to check them. It was interesting to see, some of the responses,but it mostly just made me a bit worried how these ideas and bad advice gains an audiance (the red pill/ manosphere)
Love both y’all, gang
Whenever i meet one of those guys who talk about "T" i ask them to say it. Say the word testosterone. Because they are SO insecure that they've circumvented saying it and just say "T" or "T levels" because they are *embarrassed* at the relationship to its inverse, *estrogen* . Which just speaks volumes about them 🤦♂️
People should start calling them TTs, maybe it'll fluster them more.
What in the what? They really won't say testosterone!! Do they still say weewee???
Do you ask people to say television instead of TV? Its not that deep.
Sneako exhibits the exact behavior he’s criticizing other people of
Excellent video sir!! It touched upon a lot of brilliant points.
Cultivating the group to not get any play IS the grift. They wouldn't have any return customers if all of a sudden they were ABLE to get laid all the time 😂. I'm soooo glad you guys posted this.
I love y'all's channels, this is such an unexpected collab. I love this!
Actually Tate wasn’t a chess prodigy. When he says that about it father its more like a little tourney they had when he was in the military among his fellow troops. Dude isn’t a chess prodigy
Make sense he seems to have delusions of grandeur
I have finally found you! I have been looking for you for so long.
Accept who you are.
Very difficult.
Very important.
Joe's videos on cartoons and communities that are created around those cartoons and anime are awesome stuff
Yeah, when you zoom out, and actually consider what happens... Like: nerd kid gets bullied, bully gets away with it, or at least isn't reprimanded in a serious fashion... that's a demonstration, to the nerd kid, that such use of force is an effective way of getting things done. It worked for the bully. So... one day the nerd kid might try their hand at it.
This was a cool talk. I love at the end the talk about Fighting Games. There's a whole separate manosphere in the Fighting Game Community too that needs to be addressed in the same way the 'normal' manoshpere does. Just treat each other humanly and build each other up.
after being assaulted by the amount of tate videos all over the internet..I have to genuinely say..thank you for being positive role models for young men.
More of this....has a healing quality seeing black men talk about their feelings.
Watching this back this was a good ole library reading session 😂
Thank you @Signified B Sides & Veridis. ❤✌🏿
Gonna have to watch some Veridis Joe after this 1!
I love these conversations.
Love seeing more Veridis!
Bro I haven’t watched don in so long, I didn’t know where his career has gone. That breaks my heart man.
I absolutely love these vids! ❤🔥🌼
I don't where to say this, but Andrew Tate is Jordan Peterson's jungian shadow
Omg😂 Hearing you say your introduction to RUclips was Nostalgia Critic & Lindsey Ellis made me smile because same here! No wonder I enjoy your content. 😊 (30:38) and now you name dropped Sailor Moon. It’s official, I freaking love you man 😂🙌🏻🌙💗