Fresh and Fit are gone... here's why that doesn't matter
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Fresh and Fit being gone is sadly not all that big a win.
If you're trying to expose your friend to better stuff check here
- / @mrjasonowilson
Art of Manliness - / @artofmanliness
Waving the Red Flag - / @wavingtheredflag
Classic debunks of various manosphere topics
MuneCat debunks the manosphere - • I Debunked the Entire ...
Sissyphus trying to make sense of the manosphere - • Journey Into The MANOS...
Frank Laundry explaining Fresh and Fit - • The Cult of Fresh and Fit
Zatzman on the Manosphere as a content farm - • The Existential Horror...
Reports on radicalization mentioned in the video -
www.axios.com/...
www.pnas.org/d...
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![Intro to Tool Dev in Unity - An Improvised Live Course [part 1/4]](/img/tr.png)
Another detail that ill probably touch on later is that because there's so much debunk content and so much hate watching between very opposite communities, you WILL end up getting certain folks in your algorithm sometimes even if you're not looking for that content.
Ill probably talk about this in the future
FD, you can take Tate and apply it to Trump and his ilk.
Please do that and reflect on your "no one is entitled to a community" take. Expecting people to immediately pick up on nuances that take years of life experiences and education to cultivate and not be willing to help people understand and talk to people where they are at is tribalistic.
@@ThothGrowthI completely stand by my no one is entitled to community take. I think people are thinking I meant ANY community, and what I mean is EVERY community. If you are harmful to a community and don't wanr to get your shit together then you don't belong there and will be excluded. Maybe you can go somewhere else. That's not tribalism thats survivalism.
@@FDSignifire I think you should try to explain the context better because it comes across as you calling leftism broadly, a community when it's part of society. If you mean your specific community, 100% agree. There has to be space at a broader level for these people who end up being manipulated and honestly, groomed by red pill spaces.
Dunking and debunking is half the battle.
Whether you want to or not, you are an ambassador towards leftist politics, while you aren't entitled to welcome those people into your personal community, I do think you have a responsibility to not brow beat or hate keep them from the overall left.
Not trying to be disrespectful, I just think you project personal disdain towards the viewers of that content (I don't blame you for having distaste of them) on your analysis and it comes across as framing leftist points to justify ostracizing them and telling them to pick themselves up by the bootraps. People with no one to turn to will turn to whoever takes them in. If they need to politically align and be educated in all the nuances of systemic injustice before we're allowed to talk to them about social anxiety and loneliness, it's a losing battle.
Thanks for reading
That’s interesting
"We live in a world where fresh&fit can shit on women all the way to the bank for three years and only get punished for something other than misogyny" is a great phrase to summarize this that hits hard, thank you for putting into words something that had been bugging me but I couldn't really express clearly.
We live in a world where people can shit on men, criminalize their behavior, and make bank on it for generations.
Did they do something wrong?
It's the reason I keep coming back to Fiq's channel. He just casually says the most profound things.
@fast1nakus I mean did they get arrested? Fined by the government? So it's not illegal, and they haven't dealt with any legal ramifications.
@@fast1nakus I can agree that it shouldn't be illegal, but maybe it shouldn't be so profitable, because I think that many if not most of the influencers under the manosphere are grifters, selling bad takes to a gullible or desperate audience in order to profit. I mean, saying that a partner should fear you in order to respect you is not only an INSANE take, but bad and idiotic advice, so it's wild that those two made bank saying that kind of stuff. And we see them cry on camera when doing and saying insane things hurts their pocket, but no tears are shed when peddling poisonous rhetoric that actually hurts people that believe it. It's kinda funny that all the alpha male bravado went away with the monetization, not gonna lie.
I remember seeing a video of Jason Wilson on Instagram instructing a young boy in karate, and the boy was crying bc he was frustrated that he couldn’t kick through a board. Jason said something to the effect of “it’s okay to cry, men cry when they want to do better” and I thought that was really powerful. Jason calmly talked the boy through the move, and on the next try, the boy kicked through the board. He was so happy and hugged Jason for helping him, which Jason seemed to gladly reciprocate. As someone who grew up wrestling from the age of 5, and with my dad being the coach of my high school, (a guy who felt he had to display “traditional masculinity”), I often wish that I’d had this approach to learning as a young kid, and seeing that video was heartwarming. As a recent college grad, I plan on coaching my local high school in wrestling, and I want to teach these impressionable boys/men (14-18) some valuable masculinity lessons, lessons that don’t involve the putting down of women (especially bc we have a women’s wrestling team, which is awesome in and of itself).
Wow, that quote is actually so powerful. That actually made me think and feel something as a woman. Him being able to help that young boy and not shame him for his tears is super helpful and may help him as he grows up
So true. I never shame my son for having emotions, but help him and my daughters world through them, use their words, and communicate effectively.
I love this! And I love you for wanting to be a role model. Men can only be taught these things by men through exposure to men ❤
Thank you for sharing your story with us. I'm very excited for you, you're going to be an excellent coach!
🤦🏽♀️
There's a few responses insinuating that certain folks dont hate or have issues with women. They're saying "I was juat looking for how to talk girls" etc.
I feel like once you hear "women need to be scared of you" and some of the many awful things that come from red pill spaces, and you stick around... It's because youre ok with those awful things. I dont think anyone could have ever told me those types of things and i wouldn't have immediately recoiled in disgust.
If you came for "how to talk to girls" and stayed for "women shouldn't vote"... You're a misogynist.
i dont like fresh and fit and they have terrible advice but if you genueinly think that these people watching them weren't trying to get better w women thats just wrong.
also u said if they stick around its cause ur ok with those things, thats also a bad take, some people may think the way they treat women is terrible but they find their advice helpful or vice versa. reason redpill people attract younger men is because the left don't try to talk to men at all.
i dont think the argument that they already had these ideas is a bad point people are usually in the middle politically and are pushed to either side based on life experiences like u said in this video that it can be based in their childhood
Spitting nothing but facts
💯💯💯
They might have been trying to get better... But they're still misogynists. Can you please admit this. That's the point of contention here.
I agree with their audience one day growing up, but the danger lies in the violence they promote being inflicted onto the public or their(the viewers) domestic partners in private
I’m probably not your typical viewer. I am a widowed mother of three sons. My oldest is 22 and my twins are 14. I have to stay abreast of the latest awfulness, so I can make sure they are not falling for any of it.
So far so good.
It’s rough out here. Voices like yours are so important for so many reasons.
Thank you.
Late to this video and comment. Trans guy here with a 15 year old son. Staying on top of what is happening out there is really important. Also having ongoing and both specific and general conversations is important. And maybe the most important, making sure your kids have a really diverse "bubble."
My son's bubble ranges from me, a hard-core leftist queer parent, to his kickboxing coach who is maybe the most masculine guy you could ever meet who is also seriously anti-toxic masculinity. My son has female friends who have spent considerable time kicking the crap out of him (in a safe and appropriate way while kickboxing) and female STEM teachers that he looks up to.
We have little control over the media our kids are exposed to but quite a bit of control over their environments. My son seems to think Tate is a total moron and that physical prowess isn't particularly masculine or feminine because of the adults he admires and communities he is a part of.
Not that you aren't doing these things. Just thought I'd mention what I've seen and done that seems to have helped.
As someone who has had people in their life who have dealt with alcohol and drug issues, the idea that you won't get help until you choose to seems very analagous to "step one is admitting you have a problem." It also seems that the success of recovery, as with addiction, may well depend on the strength of your support network, which is why so many boys and men who feel that they're all alone have such a hard time even recognizing the problem in the first place, let alone working toward recovery.
Which also begs the question of why men don't genuinely support other men. Most men are very transactional and do not think of helping ANYONE unless they can see a personal benefit. Women are caring and communal. We reach out and take care of each other. Of my best friends got sick and needed a caregiver, I would do it. Men very RARELY take on caregiver roles willingly. How many men do you think would take in and do everything for their homie they claim to love? Very few. And that's an exclusively male problem.
You are the most reasonable voice on this topic. Im sick of leftists blaming women the same way right wing men do. I'm more worried about mine and my daughter's reproductive rights than men being lonely....as if women aren't lonely and rejected.
Women don't get lonely lmao
@@JoeMama-gi1soyes they do. just because a man wants to have sex with women does not mean that woman wants to have sex with them. women crave emotional connection, men do too. Sometimes those things are absent for that person. It’s not a gender thing. Everyone gets lonely
@@taylormade9748 woman do not get the same intensity or frequency of male loneliness, it is simply inconceivable for them
@@JoeMama-gi1so who is measuring the damn frequency and also how would you know that? do you have stats or data to back this? loneliness is loneliness. Why are you trying to have a “who gets more lonely contest?” we’re all human and get lonely
Which leftists are blaming women?
the glee with which they hated on black women continues to blow my mind.
what a world we live in.
I liked the message at the end - live well and show people that there's a better way to navigate the world that isn't seeped in misogyny. "Arguing"/"debating"/"logic-ing" someone else out of a position that they've been "groomed into" might not be entirely possible, especially with the layers of social conditioning and just the way "humans be" (biases and all), but if you can put some cracks in the armor (through positivity/etc) - that can lay the foundation for them to break out of this toxicity on their own.
@@beowulf_of_wall_st real talk. Fighting immaturity with immaturity just causes more pettiness and resistance.
*What exactly do you mean by "misogyny"?*
@@deadmanperipherals By the same token, I'm not going to suffer stupid just because someone else made self pity their entire identity. I'm not going to waste time arguing with them, but I'm also not going to waste time acknowledging their existence. Life is just too short to suffer stupid IMO.
@@RevShifty aye man do you. Cool thing about life is you can just keep to yourself and be happy in that sense
@@deadmanperipherals I appreciate the good advice, but I also feel like I should've been more clear (now that I understand your intentions more, it feels like you at least deserve that much).
Part of it is that I just don't suffer stupid well. Most of it, though, is that my friends (never a word I use lightly in any context) are an eclectic group of people. Many of whom are kind of kicked at by the world at large for various reasons. We sometimes jokingly and lovingly refer to all of them collectively as the 'island of misfit toys'. Part of my responsibility, as their friend, is providing them a safe space to be who they are. People that get in the way of that or even explicitly threaten people like them are a problem I absolutely will not tolerate. If we're at someone's home and someone starts mouthing off, they're leaving whether they like it or not. It's just not even a question.
I just won't let the safety or wellbeing of people I care about be compromised, least of all by some self pitying dork who tried learning all about the real world through the internet. I don't owe those people anything, but I owe those I keep in my sphere the best I can provide.
I don't know if redpill-esque content was a factor, but this guy I was friends with like a decade ago who was one of the friendliest and chillest dudes I knew suddenly started espousing really fucked up stuff about gender, race, immigration, etc in 2015 overnight when he started regularly partaking in hard, experimental, and party drugs. Ironically, he even started saying that addiction is a choice and his word on the matter is law since he had become a pretty severe addict by that point. And he wasn't the only guy I knew whose public persona did a heel turn after they started partying more. At the time it confused the hell out of me but now I realize it was probably just because their inhibitions and self control withered and they didn't care anymore about seeming reasonable and not alienating people.
Have you ever considered what part of his lived experience may have contributed to him changing his behaviour?
thank you for this. I have three younger brothers all in their twenties who are good guys but could definitely benefit from therapy yet I'm the only one who goes as they're not open to it/don't think they need it, though I've tried help them and suggested it. It's frustrating doing the work to try undo the damage done by men in my life yet most men around me won't do the same. Don't get me started on my dad. All of them undermine me and my mam and talk to us like we know less than them. If they won't listen to us women it's nice to know they may listen to a guy like you
To be honest due to everything that they’ve done in the past, I don’t think their channels going to get demonetized ever. They broke so many RUclips guidelines. They’re lucky their channel is still even up.
They did tho
I would say your analysis of the radicalization pipeline was authentic to my experience. When I first got on the internet, more than any sort of political content I preferred videos and the like about pop culture. Around the time I got online, the pop culture space was becoming increasingly political. I was served videos both from right wing dipshits like No B.S and the Literature Devil, but I found that to be much less compelling than videos by people like Mother's Basement and Jack Saint, after which I moved rapidly leftward
The algorithm presented you a soft choice by the outcome of your decisions. That's not the pipeline most, even Fiq, expressed. You were predisposed to left wing content, so you chose those and that's where your bubble formed around. Had you been predisposed to preferring right wing content you probably wouldn't be here lol.
Hope that explains the process in terms of your experiences.
@@snowmanmanvideoThat is interesting and I think accurate. Mostly true for me. The times I get right wing content it seems a mistake I often ignore on videos unless it's someone reaction to and breakdown of it. But text based info has been different for me in the past. I have been following the development of these reactionary men since there have been blogs that breakdown the written side of the manosphere (red pill, including, MGTOW etc) I have seen and read their early forums and even read terrible places that promote the worst extremes of racism and hatred of all kinds. I of course was never influenced by it but I had wanted to understand and had a voyeuristic curiosity about why they thought the way they did. I do not really do that anymore because I think it was a form of digital self harm lol. I never truly understood a perfect why other than fearing a loss of power in society and losing the ability to easily exploit others creates a rage in these kind of people.
Wow this is the first time ever seeing your channel... And I must say that I am completely floored by your intelligence, emotional intelligence, perspective, and analytical abilities. Because I 100% agree. I actually wanted to introduce your channel to my 3 sons...but was pleasantly surprised (and downright releaved) to find out that they already follow you...
Wishing you much success. New subby
They weren’t kicked off of RUclips, they were demonetized. They’ll either figure out another way to collect donations or RUclips will reinstate their ability to make money.
He said that.
Thank you for pointing out that we've had to do the work to even get here. I took the red pill in high school, but coming out of my enlistment I'm the most progressive I've ever been thanks to older, wiser friends who opened my mind up to views very similar to your own. You are one of those positive male role models.
Damn I remember AOM from like 10 years ago when it was just a blog. And you know, real talk one of the things I remember noticing and appreciating about it was how relentlessly constructive it was. The author(whose name escapes me all these years later) never inderectly validated negative self concepts, or juxtaposed the ideas he presented against so called (that is, stereotypically)"unmanly" attributes. Really was a treasure tbh, just an honest, earnest seeming dude trying to find ways to maximize his enjoyment of and presence in his life and share what he found with others. Good stuff.
I remember hearing you bring up Jason Wilson a few times, I'll have to check him out too.
Dude I won’t through a mgtow phase for like 6 months back in 2017 , and when I actually got to see one of the dudes I used to listen to I realized … wait me and these people are not the same AT ALL .. walked away from BS and never looked back. I’m
Embarrassed that I even gave it the time of day but unfortunately, I was super brokenhearted coming out of a really bad relationship and super vulnerable dangerous place to be whilst making life decisions lol
I really hope you are doing better now❤. It will be really helpful to find true friends on your journey and even genuine friendships with women.
@@Sequoia98 thank you 🙏🏾 actually
Yeah that phase of my lasted 6 months the in fact I had to apologize to many of my female friends for the things I was saying during that time. Thank goodness a lot of them knew me long and well enough to know that wasn’t really me and forgave me quickly .
That took some courage. Big hugs.
@@Mikinaak2023 🙏🏾🖤
I’m so glad that my algorithm has reached a point where it recommends your channel… for months I saw swaths of fresh & fit/ no jumper/Tate videos
So many men that watch these manosphere people are the same problem they complain about. Lack of accountability, lack of self reflection, laziness, and no attempt to increase their own personal and social intelligence. Manoaphere folks give an out to young men who don't want to work to improve themselves. What a man can be is little more than a responsible adult. I have a friend that's deep in those circles and he accepts that at most times those folks are extremely weird. However, he always seems to claim they "speak truth" against women. I've tried to argue with him and he doesn't get it. It's the same "well in my experience" with twisted stories and false narratives to keep himself from the flaws and mistakes he repeats. I've gotten to that stage of just showing him love and being that peer role model for him. Maybe giving advice to navigate life or women but never shutting him down. Love and patience is protective but it's never something you should be required to protect someone else with.
IMAX levels of projection
I kind of disagree
I think a lot of them are willing to work on improving surface things in their lives, at least for a while, but bc they feel entitled to be reward with sex and dating for any little effort they just get more bitter and resentful when that is not how it works.
When really they need to get over it, no, soceity doesn't owe you sex and dating, you need to learn how to find contentment and self worth without that.
And for sure what won't help is if you sit around and wallow in bitterness and resentment bc you think you should just deserve it.
It might be somehwat valid to say that society has failed young men, bc for some reason young women are learning these values and how to find healthy coping mechanism without feeling entitled to a relationship, but for some reason men seemingly are not learning those same values and social skills.
But tbh, in my experience it has a lot more to do with a lot of these boys and men just don't want to hear that they are not owed sex and dating...and they would rather blame it on "leftist destroying masculinity" than accept that they don't just automatically deserve a virgin submissive bang maid trad wife.
Totally agree on the influence of RUclips allowing channels like “Fresh and Fit” to gain traction. It’s alarming how the algorithm might favor certain views. It’s clear many come to these platforms with set beliefs, and instead of radicalization, they find reinforcement. We need more balanced content. Also, it’s crucial to remember self-improvement starts with intent but systemic change is key.
My favorite part of the Alpha Male Ideology is that these guys (and pearl) are perpetually single or they have to pay women to be with them.
Fantastic video btw. Just discovered your channel!
on the last part, about dealing with red-pilled men in our lives, i'm thinking about my father, who has made some *big* mistakes in his life and who has struggled with how to talk to women and has been at risk of slipping into some terrible ideology. recently, he hired someone to help him with his greenhouses, a younger lady who talks to him about her bisexuality and her brother being a trans man, and just on christmas day, i was talking with him and he said something that stood out to me: that he felt a strong sense of solidarity with this woman who helps him and with her brother because of the shared experience of not fitting in, of feeling like outcasts.
it's an incredibly sappy sentiment, but there's a lot that love can do to make pockets of belonging in a society, and so much change that can happen when people are broken out of the normative nuclear family and into wider communities that can provide an actual safety net for men who fall through the cracks. so yeah, thank you for saying that -- it's an important thing that needs to be said
I actually went to High School w "Myron Gaines." Idk if he changed his name legally or not, but that was absolutely not his name at the time, and hearing who he's turned into blows my mind and saddens me in a lot of ways.
Surprised to see a shout-out to Art of Manliness. I've been reading their articles for years and I blame them for me not falling into the red pill BS when I was younger
Thanks for looking out big dawg
Bruh, I watched a few red pill videos after my breakup a few months ago. Now I have to comb through these videos because RUclips thinks it's all I wanna watch! My goal was to make sense of the breakup, not fuel hatred towards women.
My god, how can they allow a man to fight a woman and post it??? That’s crazy. I’m late but that’s wild
This guy is good. I need to spend more time on this channel. You perfectly articulate what I am thinking but can't quite put in words
When I was in middle school I had a best friend who was just a kid who played ps1 with me.
We didn’t have an algorithm or anything of the sort. In high school the closest thing to red pill content was “the game” book and a ridiculous show called “the pickup artist”
He turned very toxic and misogynistic to the point where I told him we can’t be friends anymore. I’m sure he had all those traits internalized but we didn’t have a system that picks that up and then bombards you with red pilled content.
Not saying that it’s all the algorithm fault but it definitely speeds things up and is extremely easy to access.
Again, not saying women are perfect, but it is mind boggling how much we're willing to infantilize and externalize the behavior of grown a*s men, while at the same time saying they're the natural leaders in society and should be in charge of everything. Make it make sense.
IKR! I’m trying to figure out how _these_ men are leaders 😂😂😂
A lot of your videos feel like breaths of fresh air in the sea of super online takes, where people take video essays as gospel. Thanks.
This video has made me feel less worried about my sons getting pulled into the alt right pipeline. Because what you said is true. The algorithm doesn’t just feed you shit just because…it shows you what you wanna see. And my sons are being raised in an antiracist, feminist household. (I’ll never stop worrying though, and I make sure I know what they’re watching online)
I think the sad part is this won’t reach the guys who need it
- The mandatory requirement for respect? Fear!
- Of loosing.
- Yes... and physical violence. 😂
Fresh really did his best to do some damange control there, but Myron is so dumb, he just bombed it. But yeah YT doesn't care.
F&F do not advocate physical violence. They go out of their way to say that under no circumstances should a man hit a woman.
Did you know that?
The fear you use in a relationship is the fear of losing you because you are such a great bf.
Been watching your content since I found the Hamilton video in 2020.
Its definitely changed my view on things and was able to articulate things I couldn't explain before.
And your videos are always insightful for me.
Its weird -I got to this video by watching a (white guy's) "random" video on toxic Hollywood - an interest. Your Beyoncé devil video popped up in my feed. I clicked on your CHANNEL to see what else you had to say and saw this. I then subscribed (59 yr old blk woman). love what you have to say so here i am...
Your perspective is very sharp of what the red pill actually means especially with the creators who did matrix blows my mind but when I started watching RUclips channels after Covid stepping away from the weird alpha male content got myself into black men traveling vlogs (Richie mac, ace live , the og style - style and appearance) my perspective about life grew more learning about different cultures, finding ways to become financial better, taking care of my appearance I felt more happy and motivated
Thanks, F.D. You might have left the school system but you’ll always be a teacher to me.
This was very considered and nuanced. Thank you.
oh damn, Art of Manliness shoutout! I was into them back when they were primarily a website/blog, long before I'd broken free of my teenaged apathetic "libertarian" leanings and shifted Left
I dunno FD, I go on youtube not signed in, and I'm almost instantly recomened Joe Rogan and Tate interviews
19:10
Is every Hogetwins video now.
I remember following them years ago to listen to two other goofy buff black men like myself yell about fast food ; then I woke up one day and they turned into:
"GHETTO BLACK WOMEN GETS SHUT DOWN ON TRAIN BY WHITE KING "
We need to support more alternative content. Red pill content has caused a lot of mental damage to the psyche of men.
In my experience every person i know or knew going down the redpill route isn't directly looking for help because they are at a point where they are consumed by bitterness. There have already been attempts to help them and whoever tried to help them gave woefully unhelp advice or only played into patriarchal ideas that they couldn't live up to and thus they become bitter. People don't really like to acknowledge this but some people genuinely need more help than others. Some people will still fail even after you try to help them and since people give up on them it just leaves them bitter in the end. Once your bitter its no longer about improving anything. Its about accepting your a loser and feeling doomed because of it OR the more common route of finding something to blame (usually women).
Also you didn't do it on your own. The fact that you had help and found relationships before you changed is what acted as the catalyst for that change. Alot of incel men are alone and will likely never find love. So the idea that they will just do it on their own is bs because all success stories of getting out of that shit is NEVER accomplished by someone on their own. There isn't a single person ive seen escape this that didn't get a girlfriend or have some sort of positive experience first before they changed.
I stopped watching when dude did the hitler salute like that's self hatred in the purist form
People do what all over including other races so let’s stop the victim mentality bs. It’s a joke and many comedians have done the same but that’s when y’all laugh but when 2 others do it that you seem to have a issue with it’s an insult and racist. This is where you need to seek help and learn to pick a struggle because none of this complaining is making sense especially when that’s not why they got taken down
I disagree. I think the internet chips at people very slowly. I've been using the internet for 15 years and I am 22 years old. I think the internet can very incrementally affect peoples beliefs. I think it starts with things like preying on insecurities about not being able to get a girlfriend for young 12-13 year olds, and then it shifts to the "hypocrisies" between men and women, then it gets nastier to the point of talking about women's dating preferences and pregnancies, and then it continues to get more degrading from there. I think a lot of these people are young and impressionable and probably live in angry households and dont know where to direct this anger so it helps get them further intrenched. And overtime these beliefs become more and more woven into their personality, they lose relationships, and get further deep into the echo chamber. Then they can't unlearn the stuff because it means accepting they were wrong, they treated people badly, and it takes an entire rebuilding of themselves. It takes an entire zuko level rebirth.
It wasn’t the hate toward black women specifically. I think it’s they transgressions against the Jays.
I actually disagree with the discussion early in the video about the algorithm. It pulls in political views from unrelated subjects you follow as well. For example, gaming. Im not the type of dude who SHOULD be getting jordan peterson/tate vids on youtube shorts and recommended but i was all the time till i started blocking those channels actively. My best guess is theres a lot of incels who like the same nerdy shit i like
That Behind the Bastards shout out!! 🤘🏼 I’ll take what I can get
I think there’s quite a few facets to it. When I was heavy into “libertarian and anti feminist” content, I know I didn’t start out that way, in fact I was actively subbed to quite a few channels concerned with women’s issues, sex positivity, and the lgbtq community. So the cognitive dissonance is real, and I was just somebodies kid originally. But the impetus to start watching that content was not mine, it was gradually recommended into my feed as my own gaming community actually radicalized around me. Embracing nerd culture ironically pulled me in both directions.
But outside of my online existence the impetus was for sure there to an extent, being raised only around white people in Canada definitely at least prepped me for getting red pilled, and getting bullied in North Carolina further expedited the process. But I wasn’t out their looking up antiblack topics, it really is the edgy humour to acceptance pipeline that does the heavy lifting. Engaging so much so constantly with edgy content normalized it, made me comfortable speaking it out loud, and eventually crystallized into an actual ideology, it was a joke until very quickly it wasn’t. And having traditional black media figures like Chris rock right there for me to quote made it all the more accepted and easier.
So yeah the persons internal vibe does kinda predate the content, but at the same time, lighter versions of what’s out there are definitely designed to draw you in and make you more accepting of things that will evolve later down the content rabbit hole. And a persons engagement with pewdiepie style funny haha oops I said a n*zi joke is a breeding ground for normalizing and accepting the sheer depth at which those jokes eventually go, and it primes you for stuff like pewds collaborating with Ben Shapiro. And maybe that doesn’t immediately draw you in to Ben’s orbit, but it ties pewds content to that in the algorithm, and that sifts into your feed, and next thing you know your a “classically liberal centrist” or a “leftist libertarian” fighting against “herd mentality”
The algorithm may not initially radicalize people but it is irrefutably a pit with incredibly slick sides, designed to give you more of what you engage with. And being partially in agreement with that stuff is a trap too, cause then you get invested in commenting, putting your take down and defending it, which ups your engagement with that content, so even if you had misgivings about what you’re watching, trying to express that will only cause more of it to be thrown your way.
I'm on estrogen and finesteride in my transition and I just rub my eyes at the concept of the red pill and I love the metrix
One thing that helped me was having many platonic relationships with different women as well as empathizing and understanding their perspectives. Not saying that there aren’t time when women can’t be criticized but I can honestly say whatever criticisms I would have aren’t rooted in misogyny. Plus I’ve learned how to be more detailed and astute from listening to and observing how my lady friends move throughout the world. Get some female homies.
I saw the father of 2 young daughters wearing a fresh and fit hoodie at my kids elementary school… in Canada
Yep! My own brother had a brief redpill period right after his divorce. It took us as a family to continuously check him for him to realize he was just hurt.
Ya they're just hurt/bitter or incels
Idk man people who talk like that tend to have the same thing repeatedly happen to them. You can't just chalk it all up to "hurt" cause it's convenient. Part of that is our natural survival instinct as well
@@TheForkOnTheLeftistyeah man I think it's more so how you're going about things or where you're looking, you know?
My brother was interested in red pill because his girlfriend at the time broke up with him… he was also hurt 😂😢
@@TheForkOnTheLeftistdoesn’t excuse the kind of behavior exemplified by the fresh and fit podcast or incelsw
I ain’t gonna lie, it was funny to watch Myron cry, regardless of how long term the demonetization is
Amen
the way he phrased what he was crying about was so insulting to his audience too
So satisfying.
Aw man me too
It's nice that, as a real man, he can get in touch with some emotion and be strong enough to share his vulnerability. For someone else, it could even be a step in growth.
You made a good point on "misogyny starts at 3 years old". Children see children do, and if we have patriarchy as a default, no bonus points for guessing what children see
Just to add to this, children also learn from imitation. a 5yr old will imitate a 10yr old that wants to imitate a 15yr old and so on.
a ton of what we see in the pro-misogyny spaces are people who uses the same critical thinking that would pass as wisdom to someone under 18. One could say that this is the perfect age that all children try to imitate and learn from.
The programming runs so deep, and FD naming it as grooming was so spot on. I've got a 2.5 year old boy and find myself highly aware of how many subtle inferences to gender construct there really are in the most innocent-seeming media. It starts so early, is so normalized, and is presented literally everywhere - even members of my family have begun to reinforce the most trivial things into 'this is what boys do, this is what girls do' type of rhetoric and I find myself fighting an uphill battle. It's nothing I'm not willing to fight against, it's just very eye-opening to see how deep and incessant this is.
@@Solinaru Reminds me of the phrase 'teach children how to think, not what to think' because of exactly what you said. Children are doing their best impressions of whomever they find admirable, that's how they learn and find out who they really are. It's incredibly dark to know that there are many forces out there that know this and capitalize on it.
@@SolinaruThis was a really neat comment. I think the methods of misogyny and patriarchy often get you what you want when you're young, for example talking over female peers or putting them down for instance - because you have more confidence in acting that way due to societal encouragement and reinforcement - in some contexts is a tactic that works when adults arent regulating things, as is the "do x and get y" logic you're taught from every direction with regards to dating, and these things get carried into adulthood or at least harm your thinking and are hard to unlearn.
Trans feminist author Julia Serano talks about the idea of femal/feminine mystification in her book Whipping Girl. It's the idea that not only are men groomed to hate women, but they are groomed to never seek out or understand femininity.
Any time a boy tries to do something feminine, he gets put in his place. Has too many friends that are girls? He might be gay. Interested in stuff girls are interested in? Might be gay, def not okay.
The problem of growing up in the center of society is that you are discouraged from ever learning anything about the margins. If you're too interested, then that marks you for potential marginalization. Women know a lot about men and masculinity; they have to to survive. Men end up mystified by the opposite sex, to both of their detriment.
Ironically, I went through a slight red pill phase while I was in a relationship, and it took me getting dumped to snap out of it and grow up. Most of these guys will never have an experience like that because they either drive every rational person in their lives away or if they do have this kind of experience, end up blaming women instead.
I really appreciate you being able to acknowledge this phase and taking responsibility for it.
I totally see how men can be vulnerable to this content. And it’s only male voices speaking about that, the causes and what it takes to get out that will save men. ❤
@@blammelaThanks! It was mostly the toxic hustle culture stuff and some other things that I realized were really pulling me away from other important things in my life. It's helped me realize that all the money in the world and pursuing an image isn't worth losing what I hold dear.
That "respect is based on fear" shit, b'god. I've been in a romantic relationship where the threat of physical violence (and eventually the actuality of it) was always present. No, it did no engender in me "respect" for my partner that he had to resort to punching walls and shoving me and destroying my possessions because he was "upset". Each instance of abuse or property destruction just eroded my trust and sense of safety until I had to leave for self protection. People stuck in DV situations don't "respect" their abuser; they learn to shape their lives to appease the abuser until they can find some avenue towards safety. Some never find it, but that doesn't mean they respect or even fear their abuser, so much as pity and resent them and are just waiting them out. Abusers teach their partners to lie and conceal themselves and seek escape, because abusers don't want to be in a relationship with another person with agency, they want a bangmaid to vent their frustrations upon. And they will all eventually end up alone as they deserve to be.
THIS! 👏 👏 👏
This is the same issue some men have understanding attractiveness , especially in men who are not traditionally attractive. A lot of the time guys believe being an asshole is what attracts women, "the bad boy trope". But that's just 1 attribute, "the bad boy" usually has other features, namely : confidence or what presents as confidence. That can present as being at ease in any space (because you are confident in yourself) not caring about what other people think of them and therefore not taking any crap.
Great point and I'm sorry you know it so well. ❤️
I know right, what a stupid idea people have in terms of respect and fear. They very often do not go hand in hand… I fear a hateful, violent person entering a mall with an AR-15 intending to kill multiple. Do I respect them? Hell the fuck no, they’re scum and have no qualities for me to admire. Contrast that maybe with a benevolent boss or a really cool team leader. Do I fear them? Probably not because they don’t need threats and coercion to get me to listen to them. Do I respect them? Yes because they have authority, but they use that authority wisely and have attributes to them that make me appreciate them, and that make me willing to work with them.
Such a childish view people have regarding respect and fear. It only takes a few minutes of even some mild thinking to realize respect isn’t “based in fear”.
It's even nonsense in the most benign scenarios. If I respect my plumber for the quality work they do, does this mean, on some primal level, that I fear my plumber? Wtf?
It's cultivation theory, isn't it? Red pill content doesn't take "normal men" and turn them into raging misogynistic dickwads, it's proliferation simply makes the raging misogynistic dickwad mindset seem more normal and accepted, and thus, those people already predisposed to that mindset feel emboldened to be louder and more open about their beliefs.
Yes it normalises it.
you’re right but it’s worth mentioning that the misogyny and patriarchal thinking aren’t all that uncommon in the first place; basically every man is groomed into the mindset by their parents, authority figures, and peers
Not when they start listening as literal boys. These ideas are formative for them- they haven't had a chance to become 'normal men' before these grifters take advantage of them.
@@bumfricker2487definitely not every man but more than just some men. More than enough for it to be a problem
@@bumfricker2487 A lot of the stuff Andrew Tate’s fans say though is not normalized. They are definitely pushing the Overton window. Pushing the radical to be more so
It's good how you used phrases like "don't cry" or "--like a girl" because it shows just how prevalent that way of thinking is and how most people are susceptible. Because of how normalized certain values are, I think the biggest group of people out there are those who don't know they are racist or sexist YET.
true as well ! it started ALLLL BEFORE WE BECAME ADULTS . even me being 20 , the system was already a patriarchy & women & men was already running doing things both wrong to their lengths ! what ISNT right is where the actual content to support these men & women HELPFULLY isn’t actually MAINSTREAM ! its hard for both sides , it juss more dangerous for 1 group of people than it is for for another . its not right for either 💯
That’s pretty much woke people. They claim they are more “enlightened” than the rest of us, but when you actually look at what they say and think it’s pretty racist. I was taken aback when my self proclaimed “woke” roommate said how she really felt about black people, and ever since then I’ve noticed a lot of people don’t actually know they are racist, sexist, etc because they don’t care to look outside their personal bubble, or are parroting what other people tell them to say and think. It’s pretty crazy when you realize how much “free though” is promoted these days, but most people aren’t actually thinking.
@@tiahnarodriguez3809 Wow, the ignorance in this comment.
Do you even know what woke means? Where it came from, while saying this ignorant crap?
I don't have children (woman in my 30's) but I have witnessed my relatives with children (men and women) and how they speak to their kids. There's this default rhetoric of the girls having to guard themselves, not put themselves in certain situations (paving the way for future potential victim blaming), that they have to manage and monitor and constantly be on guard for what boys and men "will" do in future. For the boys? "I don't care what he does as long as he doesn't bring it to my door". Direct quote from my sister in law. Like, wtf??? It's either that or really domineering authoritative parenting. When one of the 5 year old boys was running around excitedly playing, his Dad stood over him and shouted at him for a solid two minutes. I'm a grown woman and even I went into fight or flight mode and I really didn't feel safe. It's effed up. If I said anything I would be told to keep out of it, or that I'm too soft. It's normalising abuse and desensitising boys from a very young age, cutting them off from emotional expression and communication and then putting the responsibility for managing this dysfunction onto girls instead of just f*cking doing their jobs as parents.It is disgusting.
You need a license to drive a car or own a gun, but not to create a human.
It's a saying " you raise girls to be good wife's but not boys to be good husband's deserving of them."
It takes a village....why don't you ask to watch the kids often so you can help them be well rounded people.
@purpleglitter9596 lmao did you even read their whole post? Reason's in there
I really appreciate you making the point that these people already had a lot of these thoughts before they got these videos in their feed. Fresh and fit never organically came into my feed, and I predominately saw them through people, making videos, criticizing them, and commenting on their foolishness. When I first saw them, my immediate thought was these are two dudes, who grew up nerds, who started working out, and then started a podcast. Two dudes to were probably rejected through most of their lives who needed to make it about anything other than themselves
That’s why they only invite “camera ready” women, who often aren’t well read on the topic they’re discussing. to me that was very very clear so I never really took them seriously but they are fascinating, in that they drew attention to the fact that there are actually a sizeable group of people who agree with that foolish bullshit. But you’re so right to point out that even if that is a decently sized group, it’s still not ultimately very many people.
💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗
@cman5116 It helps that they barely had a clue what they were getting into. F&F ran a very specific kind of sideshow, so their extra attractions were chosen very intentionally. It's not inherently nefarious, it's just 'good business' when you're selling fairytale bullshit to the terminally clueless drowning in self pity.
@cman5116 Paying a very specific type of woman to make an appearance on their circus and then pretending that represented anything more than their specific business decisions is still disingenuous as absolute hell. And it's one reason I could never take clowns like them seriously.
@cman5116babe u r embarrassing yourself
@cman5116nah, you’re just misunderstanding her point and that’s fine lol
not enough people are willing to admit that the source of a lot of bad behavior is not online influence but rather the discourse present in real life. non-online people still have violent misogynistic thoughts because they were primed to have this thinking from patriarchal thinking. i honestly think placing the blame on influencers is just another way of passing off responsibility for bad behavior from educators and adults in society as a whole to this abstract Big Bad. no one wants to admit they uphold patriarchy even in subtle ways. “i don’t say i want to oppress women out loud” doesn’t mean actions/other words don’t show this.
True but internet doesn't help
@@afrosamourai400considering the internet is mostly high speed high volume opinions i think it’s fair to say it’ll exacerbate any problem. but the internet does reflect reality to an extent so the pipeline many ppl love talking about does actually start in everyday society, which is what a lot of ppl ignore (bc blaming The Internet Misogynists is easier than admitting patriarchy has a stronghold on humanity)
i'm sorry but how did you come to this conclusion "non-online people still have violent misogynistic thoughts because they were primed to have this thinking from patriarchal thinking". have you spent a second of your life listening to redpill man and trying to understand them, instead of forcing them into an artificial box in your head you have created using your idealogy?
It's almost like the internet has become "blame the music."
@@Fighting31406 Or the video games, or pen-and-paper RPG's.... If the right and center can have a moral panic or genuine societal reform, that moral panic will light right up.
ngl when me and my friends heard fresh and fit were gone we all let out this collective sarcastic “oh noooo” so i’m happy to receive some coverage of it from someone who knows what they’re talking about
Immediately after had a bunch of rightoids trying to complain about censorship. Had to giggle.
Myron went too far and the demonetization was justified. They still have their free speech. But FnF will be fine, this isn’t their first rodeo. They will come back bigger and better than ever. Would have been better if yt had deplatformed them. Law 15: Crush your enemy totally.
@@rohenry9962I honestly don’t think they’ll come back stronger.
@@munax-pd9tu Idk, time will tell.
When I told my friends they said ''who?''
The home field advantage-that’s what I call what conservatives have. They are working with the status quo and trying to maintain it. It is the norm. They have a “home field” advantage.
It also helps that their base waffles between terminally clueless and terminally misinformed, and will often do whatever they can to hold onto whatever advantages they feel like they're owed for whatever reason. Next to zero ability to tell fairytales from reality and a desire to hold on to what they have at all costs can be a pretty nasty combo, and one that's often just as easy to sell to a new crop of suckers just by changing the language or targets just enough.
You're a real underdog.
Thank you for saying this. Seeing their brand of misogyny being “ok’d” until now, when they finally get demonitized but for something else, has been pretty discouraging.
But not really surprising.
they dont hate women. give me one clip or video where he says he hate women (excluding zherka)
This
You have helped me so much to not become a bitter, man-hating asshole. There are days where the only way I know there are conscious men out there is tuning in to you and Eliot Sang. Y'all give me hope for the world, and, even though I'm not your "target" audience, I want you to know you have helped me out of some really dark experiences and I appreciate you so much.
sorry to hear what you went through, if its any consolation, as a man, i have had to also work on many aspects of myself that were misogynistic. not all men are assholes, it just happens to be that millions of western men, for some reason, tend to resonate with destructive views about women. times will change of course - but there are always two sides to the coin.
i've watched and seen a lot of female content that is misandristic, where they teach women to see men as tools, objects to manipulate. it goes both ways, as long as there is misogynistic content made by men to hate women, there will also be misandristic content made by women to hate men. it's a rather awful cycle that i hope we as humans grow out of.
it would be nice to live in a world where gender carries little meaning as to how we ought to treat people, we should just treat people equally and fairly rather than making silly arbitrary rules like (female does this, male does that), it's so silly...
@@ash9259 damn dude, made me tear up. Our journey on this planet be it short or long, we are capable of changing and saying, I was wrong. I commend you and everyone who’s self-correcting and educating themselves further.
@@ash9259I can't believe you just "all lives matter-ed" the misogyny that women face every day. Used misandry nonironically too my god...
Same. I hadn't realized how much hope I'd lost when it came to men on the internet until I ran into dudes like FD Signifier and Noah Samson and, oddly, Ethan Klein and found myself so relieved and comforted to find men online dunking on the BS that had been making me feel so uncomfortable.
@@ash9259i am truly happy to hear of your journey and that of any man in your situation. Stories like this really give me hope and make me less scared about eventually and potentially having a son.
That being said, please be careful with the "both sides' argument. While there is a lot of anti -men content on the internet, it rarely translates into real-world violence. Meanwhile, feminicide is on the rise not to mention the judicial attacks on our rights. And i mean globally, not just in Western societies.
Fiq you're an educator man... I found your channel during covid and you didnt really convert me nor change me, what you did was better.
You helped me and possibly others articulate and understand what we felt but couldn't express correctly. You're also a great masculine reference and model for black men and masculine people. Thank you.
I feel the same way, he helped actually get the words for feelings I always felt but could not articulate.
I recently reconnected with a red pilled former friend because we both work out at the same gym and his place in his life echoes so many of the things you mention here. Bitter father, recently divorced, Rocky relationship with kids, struggling financially, insecure about appearance (insane because he’s handsome and jacked), boom it’s the feminist’s fault. Trying to ignore those distractions and focus more on building him up and praising both our work towards personal improvement. It’s tough though. Much easier to write someone off and stick to what you know.
Stop trying to help men that don't want to help themselves. If he wants to have that POV, he needs to live with it and see where it takes him (nowhere) before he'll be willing to grow and change. Let him be sad and lonely, he's choosing that.
I’m tired on non-douches having to help the dbags with their redemption story. Why does the rest of society have to make up for others’ poor choices?
@@HammerStudioGames nah fuck that sometimes we want to but can't. leaving somebody like that to his own devices isn't going to make anything better, and alienated helpless folk like me who don't have toxic views need somebody to set literally anything up for us because we're not overcoming all these social barriers or crawling out of the pit without help. it's too hard and it hurts too much alone.
@@jhouston206Cause a problem left alone to fester gets worse. Problems cause more problems. Leaving them alone does nothing good, because there are clever people out there who know how to use these people to their advantage.
@@HammerStudioGamesThese POVs can lead you into an early grave, maybe think about that before discouraging others from trying to help. As a friend you have capital that strangers don't and you're likely to be heard if you play your cards right and use the rapport and credibility you have in an empathetic way. I've had to do this with male friends who're doing insane shit. It's shitty but someone has to try.
The red pill says that all love is transactional, and that you need to be worthy of love. You help friends out of the Red Pill world by showing them unconditional, non-transactional love. Good stuff FD
@cman5116 sorry you feel that way man.
@cman5116dude is preaching fantasy. even God's love is conditional. 😂
@@mafamac4069 it's almost like god was man made.
None of these guys ever heard of hypergamy
@@mafamac4069 When does God ever mention love?
Thank you for stating this so clearly. Misogyny is acceptable discrimination.
Yeah. It’s the most common, and most consistent form of bigotry. Probably because it’s universal, nobody really thinks it’s unusual enough to question it. “Civilization” was literally built at the expense of women. So, basically, misogyny is a pillar of society. Historically, gender was the blueprint for every other kind of prejudice. So, those spaces being a stepping stone to extremism makes perfect sense.
We don't know how past civilizations treated or honored their women so how can you say it was built at the expense of women?
@@tailoredfor831Yes we do??? LOL JUST READ what the hell???
@@tailoredfor831Am not trying to be rude but historians do know how women were treated in society. Read history books they talk about how women were trates back then.
@@mochabearry Lmao 😂
Thanks for discussing how bigots aren't just innocent victims of evil robots. Making it clear that this bigotry *already exists* is so important. Trans people like myself get told that identity politics is a weapon of the elite to divide us, and that no one *actually* hates trans women, they were just told to by politicians and media. That sanitizes so much of reality and completely neglects the fact that this hatred is real and, like you said, predisposed in the world.
The elite use already existing bigotry to distract people from the real problem. The Holocaust is a great example. Rich people used fascist to stay in Power. Those fascist used jewish people as a scapegoat. Jewish people were called greedy elite, when those greedy elites were simply using jewish people as scapegoats. That worked because the System of capitalism can't function without bigotry. All forms of bigotry are Tools used to benefit Capitalism. Capitalism inherently benefits from Patriarchy, Racism, Queerphobia, and Ableism. One reason for it is that as you already mentioned, a divided working class is easier to exploit. Conservatives will blame immigrants and black people for "taking their jobs" when the people doing them harm is rich people. Western countries exploit foreign countries especially African countries of the earths natural resources, which they've been able to do because of European Colonization. What the people that told you that got wrong, is that they were not radicalised. Our current society is inherently bigoted. those people were not suddenly turned into transphobes/bigots, that happened to them at a very young age. They aren't innocent. Theres a certain amount of blame that can be put on White Supremacy, Colonialism, and Capitalist society. But at the end of the day, people choose to be bigots. I am 14 years old, growing up with right wing parents. They are the Textbook Definition of bigots. Every Single marginalised group you can think of, they hate them. They are the people I have to spend most of my time with, yet I am not a bigot. I have done some shitty things in the past, mostly because of ignorance, but I have grown since then, and my growth isn't over. I went down the alt right pipeline, but not because I hated oppressed groups, it happened because I was manipulated and deliberately missinformed. I used to watch blaire white, and because shes a trans woman, I thought she had credibility. But when I actually researched the people she was slandering, I realised how wrong I was. I was always far left, even before I knew about politics. But going down the alt right pipeline taught me that I should never blindly listen to what anyone on the internet says. Being openminded and curious helped me realise that I'm a trans man, and that I wasn't abnormal for being uncomfortable in my body. I wasn't deradicalized by left tube, I decided to help and educate myself
Thank you! After the Trump presidency, I quit taking insight from people telling me what not to worry about. 😂
@@LoneWulf278 Damn straight.
Exactly. Half the nation didn’t fall for maga bullshit because they were hypnotized into believing it. The people who already had hateful views are the ones who were drawn to the maga world.
What a shitty thing to say to someone already experiencing discrimination. These bigots were told to hate people they didn't even know and they were all like "yay, someone else to blame for all my problems!" As a cis person, making excuses for that behavior would make me an enabler, plain and simple.
Not gonna lie Myron crying them “high value” tears made my day. 😂😂😂😂
I fell into the red pill after my wife divorced and cheated on me. I couldn’t live with it and felt like it was my fault.
The RP was the only thing besides my mom telling me it wasn’t my fault. Eventually after overdosing on the content i came to realize that there’s no way it HAS to be this way.
It’s been 3 years now and I’m newly married again to a wonderful women. I appreciate this video because i still am looking for positive male role models to share with others.
This video defines exactly the issue and gives a solution i love it
Second marriage divorce rates are worse then the first. Definition of insane
I am a 41yr old CIS black man and I got into both you and Fresh & Fit around the same time in 2019. I still get their clips on my feed on a pretty regular basis, but I haven't watch but maybe 3 full episodes of theirs ever! I realized that they were clowns pretty f*cking quickly and for the life of me can't understand how any male over 25 can buy into that red pill nonsense. I have a good relationship with my mom & grandmother. I have been around my sisters, aunts, and female cousins my whole life!!! I grew up in the NOI were being chauvinistic/misogynistic is an everyday thing and I knew that most of that stuff is B.S. even then!
Same here grew up in the NOI and even after leaving over 5 years ago still struggling to deprogram myself from the BS ingrained in me since childhood
It’s because you have healthy female relationships so it’s harder to convince you to dehumanize them. Some compartmentalize and want a fantasy partner. That’s why these clowns promote cheating on their partners and all that. They only see some women as human. Some men like the rhetoric because it means that they don’t have to work hard to improve themselves and they can blame women for their shortcomings.
What is NOI?
@TheInsiderzone The Nation of Islam, but there are other various Black-American Muslim organizations like the Fruit of Islam (FOI), but I still only got a surface level of understanding towards them.
You should be able to click on the little dots and essentially block them from your algorithm if you want them scrubbed
I agree with your synopsis. I think the same happens with white nationalist and other anti black content. I've never believed the "poor happless white fell down the rabbit hole unawares" narrative. These folks are predisposed.
My friend is a Middle School art teacher. She's been really worried about right wing man-o-sphere influence on her students. She says most of the boys talk way more about Andrew Tate then any other pop culture. My hope is that concerned parents are taking notice and putting pressure on RUclips.
Yeah every so often my teacher friend has war stories about one of her boys saying inappropriate things to her face. To which she will just immediately dissect why what they have said is wrong. As she wants to get them off the edgy misogynistic humour as soon as possible, as she begins each school year.
future incels lol
I wonder if this is in specific communities as I was in education and my mom and her friends are teachers but they never came across this. Mind you, they deal with mostly black children and as older women who have raised sons way bigger than them know how to put the fear of God and them in young boys early on.
@@MoniqueinLAnothing funny about it. They need good male role models in this modern age of high divorce rates and single parenthood
@abrashio how long since your mom and her friends were teaching? This is relatively new. I remember in 2017 my teacher friend chaperoned a middle school dance for Halloween and the kids who dressed up all dressed up as their favorite RUclipsr. She had never seen that until that year. Now she said that kids are less open about talking about their favorite RUclipsrs because they are actively hiding it from adults but yet their favorite RUclipsrs ideology/beliefs come out more in what they say, write and do.
"If I have helped any of you in any way, it's most likely because you at some point...decided to help yourself," you hit the nail right on the head with this video. I went through a "red pill" phase in my late teens/early twenties. Before seeking better personal development resources, which led me to people like Art of Manliness, Jason Wilson, and then You. I have watched clips of Andrew Tate and others occasionally but view them as amateur comedians; I wouldn't take life advice from someone who couldn't even be a professional clown.
Calling Tate a comedian is pretty harmful ngl, it reduces the horrific things he says and does to jokes. They're not jokes. There's no joke in telling boys to violently oppress women. He's a monster and should be viewed as such.
Gerbert Johnson is way better
@@Jane-oz7pp
Nah he’s hilarious
I too used to look at Art of Manliness. I quit after he continued to platform Jack Donovan. I would encourage you to go back and go thru their articles deep in the site and I think youll be really surprised at how toxic that site actually is underneath. Its cleverly disguised but I feel like that site is definetly white supremecists in nature and actually much worse then just that.
@@Jane-oz7pp I understand your point. I will counter by saying comedians have told jokes since the dawn of time at the expense of someone else's feelings. We have existing comedians today that, if you go back and watch their older specials, they'd be "canceled" in today's standards. What Andrew Tate and the larger red pill group say as a whole is despicable, but if you don't take it seriously, or better yet, ignore him, then no harm no foul. He has no power. He isn't like, a Donald Trump. That's more so someone you need to worry about what he says.
Red pill is for people who need to do some self reflection. I dipped into it when I was struggling mentally with dating then I saw the material was just hateful and super misogynistic and when I caught that and did the work on myself I got out before getting too deep
Good for you! I wish you the best ❤
The algorithm doesn’t radicalize, it reinforces. It doesn’t create, it builds upon. It doesn’t make good people bad, it makes bad people worse.
I feel like I'm late with this one, but I've gotta ask: which one is Fresh and which one is Fit?
Lmao
That is both me laughing and my answer to your question
Neither 😂
Coconuts and Barbados
I appreciate this take brother, and I agree completely. These folks usually just rotate to another platform. Also, bro you know misogyny and racism is entertainment. That’s why bro 😂
But also use this a way to grift in a different way and steal more wealth from their audience
@@vlogily8043 steal? the audience willingly give it to them
*What exactly do you mean by "misogyny"?*
I actually don't watch any of that shit, precisely because I don't find misogyny, racism, bigotry, trans phobia, etc entertaining. Not even remotely. Am I really the weird one here?
I will say that finding this channel was so transformative for me as a Black gay man, who prior to your vids ONLY listened to Black women feminist or Black gay male creators. I've shared your content with so many of my Black gay male friends, and we have really enjoyed listening and learning AND, it has made me so much more open to listening to other hetero, cis, critically thinking Black men like Foreign. Each video is really like being back in grad school and reminds me to keep an open mind!
I love that you shouted out the Art of Manliness! I used to go to their content all the time when I was fresh out of high school and trying to figure this whole "being a man" thing out. They offer a ton of great practical advice for everything from fashion to business to day to day lifestyles skills (I deadass learned how to tie a tie from their site) without all the grossness of, say, a Fresh and Fit.
I often wonder why I didn't become a red pill weirdo as I fit all the markers we associate with that group in my late teens. I was a socially awkward young man with no dating experience, very passive, chronically online, had experiences being bullied and mistreated by women and girls in my life, and of course, grew up seeing casual misogyny everywhere. I think the main difference makers were my mother and father always encouraging me to talk and share my emotions, getting therapy in college, and finding spaces like The Art of Manliness that were having healthy conversations around traditional masculinity that weren't being overtly toxic to women or being condescending to men (particularly young men, which I was at the time) who were just trying to figure all this shit out.
That’s great. Your on the right path. The teen years and early 20s are difficult for a lot of people. Girls and guys alike. We all have different life experiences and insecurities, even the outwardly beautiful people. It’s just important to be kind.
Just want to point out that what you had earlier said about algorithms prioritizing right-wing and prejudiced content over progressive or left-wing content, is actually correct. Different researches in the field of Communication reveal that even on an account without activity, right-wing content is more recommended and becomes more visible. These platforms are not neutral and much that happens on them is not the result of user interactions, but their own bias.
Given how much money there is both in right wing media and outrage farming in general, I absolutely believe it. If you don't count Fox, almost the entirety of right wing media in the US is owned/funded by 3 people. It doesn't matter the specific media, format, message, etc, it's *all* coming from less than a handful of people. And their combined advertising budgets are larger than some countries entire GDP.
And with social media specifically, the consumer is the actual product. That makes for a particularly nasty combo IMO.
@@RevShifty
When I put in Brie Larson hate is a grift I get all of them cringe videos of her looked crazy photoshopped photos of AOC, Daisy Ridley with red Superman laser beam eyes
In literally every video
RUclips is definitely focused on pushing them
As a martial arts instructor myself I have been greatly influenced by Jason Wilson myself. I think traditional martial arts with this kind of leadership can fill the void of male role models in the mainstream.
I'm in my 20s. I'm young. I should be dreaming of love, but this whole manosphere thing is really putting me in a 24/7 alert state of mind. I had never thought so badly of men until I came across all that cult. It makes me wish I didn't get close to any man. ''If men really are like this, they are no different from beasts and I shouldn't go near them for my own good'', that's the kind of thinking. Every time I come across channels like this and comment sections like the one in this video, I feel like I'm moving a bit away from the dangerous abyss of misandry, in my case a consequence of the manosphere.
I felt the same way for a couple of years, moving away from that took some work and time
Spending less time online consuming that content helps. We sometimes make these pockets of the internet reflections of every man’s belief systems and that’s not true. Also, consuming progressive content will get you exposed to more men who don’t share these thoughts.
@@pisceanbeauty2503 I don't consume that kind of content on a daily basis, just enough to keep me informed. The first time I went in, I heard that it was about men's mental health. I have a father and brothers, 1 eldest (who unfortunately has fallen into that rotten hole) and two little ones, naturally I was interested, and I was disappointed to see that most of it was simply hatred towards women. Although I don't want to, it's important to know, even if it's to avoid this kind of men. And on a rational level I know that not all men are like that, in the same way that I know that all women cannot be judged by the actions of a few. Alarm bells go off with men because no matter how much society has advanced, men still have what allowed them to subjugate everything that was physically weaker. Some are resentful enough to do foolish things. If this shit doesn't stop we're going to see women dying for it.
Same I thought boys/men were cool growing up... funny too . back when I had no phone until I got to see fresh and fit telling us we are hoes like bruh I haven't even tested the waters and already you attacking me.. just because some girl rejected u... this brought so much hatred..it just felt like betrayal until I realize its only certain bozos doing it
If it helps, I'm a man and those clowns are the polar opposite of everything I've both personally held dear and believed about masculinity since I was a literal child. And the same thing goes for every man I've personally known. None of this sideshow bullshit has ever represented anyone I've known personally, and I spent years zigzagging the country and meeting new people almost like it was earning me money.
It's definitely good to know that they're out there and what to look for. Like any form of abuse, it typically starts slowly, so it's always a good idea to know what to look for and to know what real red flags would look like. But for your own sake, please don't forget about the internet's natural ability to amplify the worst and the dumbest side of anything. The internet naturally makes things look worse than they generally are, because outrage farming is a great way to make money these days.
But it still generally does a terrible job at actually representing reality, especially as most people would understand it. I'm not trying to tell you not to be careful, or even not to vet the shit out of a potential partner. I'd just hate to see someone give up before things really even got started, just because of the internet's natural ability to amplify stupid. It's a great and important idea to be careful, but it probably isn't time to seal yourself away and not take the chance to experience a little of the most interesting facet of ife just yet. Just stay informed and be careful first.
I actually do deal with the whole “watching/reading things just to feel rage” problem, not with your channel, but just with particular opinions I disagree wkth or dislike about like movies and stuff. I’ve been in therapy for this, and I’m having to learn to trust in the value of my own feelings and opinions
Hey I'm really curious about this. My friends been going through a similar issue. What did you find causes this if you're cool with sharing and what helped?
@@FloatingErgonaut so for me it’s complicated and definitely didn’t happen overnight, and there’s also probably a lot of underlying issues specific to me that led to my situation (years of self-loathing, light emotional abuse, a craving for external validation, etc). So I’m like a huge MCU fan (pretty much always have been) and I tend to get hypersensitive to criticism of it. Like I get super angry when I see some so-called intellectual try to claim that Endgame was trying to say that heroes should just pursue power with no responsibility, Blade was a better martial arts movie than Shang-Chi, it’s all propaganda, the Avengers are just fighting to preserve the status quo and even wanting things to change makes you a villain, etc. it was arguably bad for a while, but twitter in particular turbocharged it. Like I became constantly inundated with “the thing you like is bad” tweets that were often coated in a thick layer of self-righteousness. As far as things I can recommend, if your friend is on twitter, get them off of that hellsite for sure. Limiting other social media may also be helpful. I’m off almost all sites except RUclips and a limited amount of Facebook per day, you can limit your friend’s access to certain sites if they allow you to using the Screentime feature on iPhones at least. Other than that, I recommend therapy, and positive i statements as long as they don’t bolster like some bigoted belief or something. Have them say out loud things like “my opinion is a valuable treasure,” or “my thoughts are mine and they are valuable and special.” And keep in mind it’s a process, even I’m not completely out of the woods with this one (if you couldn’t already tell), but I’m trying to be better, and the things I said above have been helping a lot. Good luck to you and your friend, and I’ll keep you guys in my prayers!
@@markmerk1296 Thanks for explaining. I don't use twitter for this reason and tell my friend to get off it - it just makes you angrier over time. Twitter has value as a town square, but it isn't a good place to hang out in. I think these companies profit off of negative emotions since they are self reinforcing and have a tendency to make you fixate.
I've been telling my friend that the stuff he sees online isn't representative of how people act irl and as he's been socializing more he's been seeing that point. Hell, I think even the people who're insane online aren't necessarily that way irl, humans change a lot based on context.
Thanks for sharing! My friend (and me) are also people who've struggled with the issues you mentioned, including varying degrees of abuse, so I get it. I only use youtube now and hang out a lot in comments on free days because it lets me practice putting my thoughts into words.
Wish you the best!
I'm super curious to check out the Art of Manliness folks! I'm not at all bothered by men wanting to be traditionally masculine or women ascribing to conventional femininity if that's what they want and what makes them happy. What bothers me is their apparent lack of interest in promoting their preferred way of being. Instead their real interests seems to be to denigrate those who are different from them. Perhaps I'm naïve, but I feel like it should be easy to say "If you want to be a traditionally masculine man and attract a traditionally feminine woman, here's what you do" while failing to demean us feminist modern women. I even think it's possible to make distinctions and point out why a "traditional" man or woman isn't attracted to certain "modern" behaviors without being disrespectful. But, as Fiq said, that's not what gets views and makes money. After all, Mr. Samuels spent years putting out videos trying to help men by instructing them to dress well and groom themselves to attract women, but only blew up once people caught a clip of him humbling a woman.
If you’ve seen any of KS videos it is very obvious he tries to humiliate women every single time by trying to “prove” to them they are worth less or shouting over them.
It’s not a one off video it’s the consistent media of his that made him famous.
He’s also said in many videos that he as a “man” is above them (above women) according to the god of the Bible. (Reference to how in Christianity men are placed In hierarchy above women)
@@zandi3426 Yep! Earlier this year I decided to watch all of his content (I do not recommend binging. Spread it out lol!) and saw precisely everything you described here. He was nearly the very definition of misogynistic. He went well past "strongly prejudiced against" and full on hated us. Especially Black women.
I think because their main purpose is to make “all” women available to them. In real life,the real “traditionally feminine women” will not be available to all of them and I think they know that. It’s just a fantasy. So their solution is shaming women who are different to their ideal so the FeMaLEee will “act right”😂. And for a few I think they just like making fun of women. It’s clearly a show. They provide zero solutions for the real issues.
I'm glad to see the findings of the research papers about the 'supply and demand' model of content algorithms is finally being uncovered. I was writing about this in my Ma. in 2020, but as someone with no platform it was like screaming into the void while everyone was still chirping about 'the pipeline' as if the pipeline existed in a void and just sucked in people who weren't already pre-disposed to having those views in the first place.
Here’s a dark thing about the algorithms… after my messy separation with my severely mentally ill wife, I started getting recommended red pill content on mass. I would’ve been looking up content or googling things trying to understand how we ended up here. Sometimes the algorithm’s are reading vulnerable moments in men’s lives as “he is struggling so therefore this guy will like this.” I watched some of it and didn’t buy in, and eventually started getting recommended other types of videos too like this one, or Richard Reeves, or Robert Reich on the systemic issues behind why life is harder now for many men.
I had a similar youth, and around the same time as FD. While I don't think I would have fallen down the red pill path based on who I am (although I can't know that for sure), I will say I was bitter and depressed as I couldn't find a girlfriend. I am generally i think a nice person. Even then I did things to help people, and gender didn't matter, and I didn't expect anything in return. But I could never figure out why plenty of girls wanted to be my friend, but were not interested in anything romantic in nature.
Eventually I cam to understand in retrospect that the issue was me. I had no self confidence and it showed. It was pretty amazing how in one year I found a job that led to a career and I was really happy with that. It led to me being more confident in myself. At the same time I really got into weightlifting and studied how to train effectively. And while I think the physical changes has less to do with how women saw me than I thought at the time, what it did do was really improve my image of myself. These two things combined, and with being a little older by this point, really changed how I presented myself, and girls took notice of that.
Unfortunately there is no set of instructions for everyone on how to become more confident, but once you figure it out, it will change your life.
also the message all men need to hear, no one owes you love or a relationship
@@Ava-nf2qq it's profoundly unhelpful to just drop that and book. what's the next sentence? what are we supposed to do with that? i've long since internalized it and I'm just waiting to die because i have no social status or connection.
@@kaiserruhsamwe are all alienated by living in a system where we are compelled to be productive, but also deliberately kept apart by those who take our production like a dairy farmer steals cows tit juice. i've found that human connection *is* possible, face to face, or through interest communities, just by matching the vibes and chillling. don't, like, interrogate people, but do, sometimes, share a thought with a coworker or ask their opinion on some anodyne thing, and just let those words hang in the air. it might feel uncomfortable at first, but then cozy. then, you can volley that back. create little in-jokes! dare to be "scared" of the smallest person there. odds are, everyone you meet feels just as lonely and alienated as you are.
@@kaiserruhsam*That is why Fresh and Fit exist.*
@@tinoesroho doesn't really work like that consistently for neurodivergent people. i'm happy for you, but the people around me are pretty impenetrable and I don't have much means or opportunity to find community locally, but I also can't afford to leave.
this is all much bigger than one person making a genuine friend or getting a date of course. i don't think we're abolishing capitalism in my lifetime but I don't see any way for my circumstances to improve under it.
This video is enlightening. I am a older white guy and found this channel a few weeks ago in YT recommended algorithm. I know of F & F from sporadic viewings of H3. I watch that kind of video because I like to laugh and keep up with current social media and what young people are viewing and injesting. Great video. My Mom was the smartest emotional person I knew, she taught me and my siblings how to behave and respect everyone. Thank you for your content.
Being a woman from a small Pacific island nation where we have such a strong patriarchal society that puts women down at every turn, the way I came to become a leftist was such a neckbreak turn point after years of softcore societal brainwashing. The brainwashing and narratives were so toxic that I fell down the rabbit hole watching Ben Shapiro, especially since the society I came from was so homophobic and misogynistic. Then I left the country to study in Asia for a few years, made friends with a lot of gay folks and Arabs and I realised the rhetoric about 'the gays' and the 'terrorists' were not translating in reality. I started to have a disconnect with the likes of Ben Shapiro, and one day I came across Secular Talk where Kyle Kulinski was talking about Ben Shapiro and his ilk and it was like a lightbulb went off in my mind. So I think you're on to something there, if I hadn't left my backwater town, I would still be part and parcel with the homophobia and patriarchal bullshit that is being entertained openly there. The algorithm already knew I wasn't really feeling it with Shapiro no more, so it started recommending me other things that more aligned with my views.
I have seen preschool boys police each other’s masculinity, we gotta do our part to equip these kids with the tools to break out of that thinking
It definitely matters. Hurting these people in their pockets is one of the best ways to get at these people. Mess with their money and it’ll make them move to smaller platforms where they won’t get as much reach. I do think youtube should delete their account but I’m cheering that at the very least, their pockets are hurt and now it’s making them ask for money and look even worse than they did before.
Should youtube also delete toxic feminist's accounts and misandrist accounts?
@@abdulbabatunde9151 Yes. Next time you engage please don’t try to deflect.
90% of the red pill video titles can be porn titles too with how often they use slam and destroy
I started watching this video cuz I'm a woman and it's unfortunately rare on the internet to see a man talking like he lives on earth. But goddamn I stayed cuz of the way you roasted them. Thank you for the chuckles too 😂
As a long-time RUclips watcher, I can say for a fact that I never watched anything all the way through that I didn't want to watch or at least in which I was interested in the subject matter. The target audience of redpill content isn't as impressionable or unsuspecting as apologists want to believe.
Here's the thing: The proliferation of online manosphere content is rooted in its overly simplistic, easily digestible nature that, at its core, largely absolves the viewer/listener from any sort of self-reflection or introspection.
The viewer is the virtuous, blameless protagonist (ie the "nice guy") just trying to do their best in life only for their dreams and aspirations to be dashed by the obviously malicious, irredeemable antagonist/scapegoat ("wahmyn"/feminism).
It is a seductive and addictive main character syndrome story arc during a time period where every young man has some sort of main character syndrome. It is the same formula that helped Fox infotainment cable channel garner its cultish following. It can be so seductive, addictive, and comforting to be told that someone else is to blame for one's problems, even something as intimate as having sex, because then you don't have to change.