The NEW Harley Davidson Pan America test ride back to back with the 2021 R1250GS
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- Опубликовано: 17 июн 2021
- I was very lucky to get to test ride the The NEW Harley Davidson Pan America to compare it with my lovely 2021 R1250GS TE Rallye. This new Harley is an awesome bike and makes a great alternative to the BMW. A huge thank you to Newmarket Harley Davidson (Lind) for allowing me to take this gorgeous bike out for a couple of hours. www.lind.co.uk/harley-davidso... give them a call to book your test ride and please do tell them that Fen Tour sent you for some extra special treatment. (A free coffee!)
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I had the opportunity to take a nice long test ride on the Pan America and I can honestly say, Harley absolutely nailed it with this bike as an introductory product. Total confidence on the road in the twisting and rock stable at highway cruise speeds. If they offer a slightly larger wind fairing for those that intend to do a higher percentage of road miles of touring, the Pan America will be capturing a massive audience. It is incredibly comfortable with the single exception of the heat of the rear cylinder at stop and go traffic (which is definitely not unbearable). For a really long touring stretch, Harley has really landed on a balance of feeling extremely planted without feeling the need to have a bunch of bodywork around you. Although I would like a bit more surround to feel more “in” the bike like the BMW, it doesn’t change the level of actual comfort over a long distance. The PA and GS is a pretty solid competition that offers the right differences in attributes. I am a BMW GSA guy. But the Harley PA now has me wanting both. Seriously. That PA felt like an absolute surgeon in the twisting for such a highly versatile adventure bike. Comfortable yes. But I still feel like my GS would be more so over a number of days riding.
Cheers Scott, i think you are right the PA seems more accurate and maybe a better road bike than the BMW, but not by a lot
@@FenTour, not by much is a very true statement. (I’ll add this up front here, lol. I went a bit off the rails long when responding because, as a BMW GSA AND a Harley Davidson Street Glide owner, I really was quite impressed during my extended ride time with the PA. So my apologies for going long in my following reply, lol).
If you combined the primarily different positive attributes of each bike, the result would be the greatest adventure bike ever made, lol. Over the longer touring hauls on the road, the GS just feels more touring planted which I think could be mitigated with a few changes. For one, a seat that feels a bit more cockpit like and using the available handlebar risers would do quite a bit for this. Additionally, if there was a way to move the foot pegs forward about two inches combined with that deeper feeling seat, that would put you a bit more “in” the bike than on top of it for those longer road tours. With those mods, if Harley was to offer a slightly larger front fairing option that added a bit more isolation from the constant wind stream of touring the way that the GS provides, but was designed to compliment the look of the bike instead of appearing to be an obvious add-on would make a huge difference combined with the other suggested mods. Personally I think the PA would steal the show if those items were addressed. The road manners of the PA in the twisties is outstanding and feels more flickable and is endlessly fun from the confidence it provides.
I think the GS is only held back in any way by it’s feeling of bulk even though it’s performance cancels most of that bulk out quite effectively. If Harley was to get that seating position more “in” feeling and effectively mitigated that wind that contributes to rider fatigue over those long touring pulls, I think the heat from the rear cylinder would be a non issue and result in stealing the show. For a first introduction, Harley did an amazing job and has presented a very serious option to the adventure bike segment and has only heightened their image as an innovative manufacturer.
There is no way I would ever get rid of my Street Glide because of the way it feels so solid and meaty along with that glorious exhaust note. But in reality, I take my GS on long tours because it just feels more comfortable in every situation and BMW has perfectly engineered the wind concentrations out of the long hauls on tours. It’s just that much more ergonomically comfortable for really long time periods in the saddle. If Harley was to focus their design efforts on crafting a more comfortable long range touring experience without losing that flickable fun and off-road prowess, they would seriously be pushing my GS out of the garage, lol. I love the sold feel of any Harley product and don’t mind paying the premium for it simply because it really is worth every penny. The PA is no different in how damn solid it feels. But I don’t think it’s in that spot for me in the really long road tours yet like the GS. But it’s pretty damn close!!
Good review Martyn, thanks for sharing, great that HD can get it so right at their first attempt.
Cheers Steve, it's selling well I hear.
Great video! You weren’t biased at all. Both bikes (and the Ducati and KTM as you mentioned at the end) are terrific. Competition is good and we as consumers are better off for it!
Indeed competition is good, I am no fanboy of BMW or Harley, I am a fanboy of motorcycles and this will be a close call for many.
Amazing review, great analysis and commentary. I have to say you didn’t make the decision any easier, but that’s actually quite helpful because there isn’t a bad choice, it comes down to aesthetics and that’s a personal choice. Thank you !!
Thank you for the kind comments. My advice is 1) Which do you prefer the looks off? and 2) Test ride both, which rides the best for you
Well done for your honest review of these bikes. Time will tell if the Harley becomes a serious competitor to the likes of BMW, KTM and ducati and the top brands in this field. Hope they do well as this greatly benefits us, the biking community.
Cheers for commenting, lets hope harley do well as will keep all inc BMW improving.
Enjoyed the video, thank you sir as you answered all my questions in the comparison.
Excellent review and comparison I watched every second of this 40 plus minute video because I could not stop watching it. Although I myself would choose the Harley the BMW both looks and sounds better. The boxer twin sounds so good and the red white blue paint over the gold wheels looks awesome. For those who have not seen the Pan America in person it looks much better in person especially the headlights IMO.
Cheers Paul, I am sorry it was a long video; I am terrible for editing! Anyway you are right one needs to view this bike in the flesh, it's not so photogenic as the BMW!
That’s where I used to get my Harley’s serviced, brilliant group of people!
Good to know, cheers.
Great review video. Thx for sharing. .. From across the pond in Nashville TN USA
Thank you for the kind comments. Cheers
Best review I’ve seen yet worth a like and a sub!
Thank you, that very kind.
For ease of maintenance for DIY guys, Gs wins..shaft drives are awesome. Tune up will also be a breeze.. No need to remove gas tank! GS also have a significantly cooler engines.. V twins are notoriously hot especially high performance engines.. Ask any ducati and ktm owners! Truth be told boxers are also very nice to ride on twisties and very stable off road! Over all I think GS is the better bike.. Oh, and by the way I ride harleys who happens to also enjoy adv bikes and everything in between!!! Love your review mate...
My choice is still the GS, but thank goodness Harley is working hard here.
I love reviews like yours that err on the side of letting the viewer decide. Call out the pros of each, dont dwell on negatives, unless they legit get in the way of the experience.
I think there have been a lot of issues since I made this video with the Harley, of course my vid was unbiased as these issues were not yet known. Glad I have kept the BMW!
Great review many thanks. I purchased the Harley and got a great deal from the newmarket Harley dealer
Thats mega news Andy, I would love to know how you get on; delivery soon? Cheers
@@FenTour waiting for delivery hopefully soon. Do you do ride outs with your disciples
Picked the bike up last week. Loving it so far. Powerful and comfortable and looks great. Are you going to review the new sportster s when it lands soon. I fancy one of those as well .
@@andyhadden9080 hi Andy, I am sure you are very happy indeed with the PA. as soon as the new Sportster is in I hope to get a test ride, now that will be very different… like a small fast version of my Fat Bob maybe? We will see… cheers.
Watching you ride on the wrong side of the road is nerve wrecking. 🤣. Thanks for the input, and stay safe.
haha cheers
Great unbiased and detailed review, one of very few I could find today on RUclips, as the owner of several motorcycles, collected and for my tour and rental business in Mexico, I am very interested in the new HD Pam Am 1250, for a first attempt, I believe they have done exceptionally well, and I believe the bike will initially sell very well in the US, but to me, I believe it will not have the soul of a Harley, and eventually Harley riders will realise this, my Harley’s feel they have a soul, because they are temperamental, they do not brake or handle as good as my other bikes, but if I just want to chill, clear your mind listen to that rumble and the world seems a more peaceful place, not a lot comes close, this is something I only learned in the last few years.
My BMW1250GSA is not the best looker or best sounding or fastest, but it is the Swiss Army knife of bikes, with shaft drive Tele lever and Para lever it is smooth and comfortable on long rides and especially in Mexico, I am very thankful for that 30L tank having ran out of fuel several times in the middle of nowhere, and not a lot goes wrong, also it still feels built like a tank like my 1150GSA which I’m currently rebuilding.
When I bought my KTM1290 Super Adventure T, I thought this is it, speed power and handling of my older sports bikes with the practicality of a 30L tank and full touring capabilities, but on a tour I find the KTM makes me constantly keep playing with the throttle as if the bike is in control not me, great for adrenaline rushes but, does not let you relax on a long trip and the seat is very uncomfortable.
My Multistrada 1200s was the first so called Adventure bike I owned, that I felt could handle brake and accelerated like my 98 R1, a bike I still love for looks and handling especially in the red and white colours, as looks go the Multistrada is never going to win on looks compared to other Ducati’s like my 916 Strada, which to me is the best looking bike ever produced, and at the time, I believe was the best handling, but definitely not the most reliable, especially the electrics in the wet!, but with the Multistrada, you still feel the passion come through, of what it is to be a Ducati.
My conclusion after all this waffle, is that Harley have built a good bike, perhaps even a great bike, but it ain’t a Harley! and to people who have owned Harley’s it will never be a Harley in the true true sense of the word just like the V Rod which a lot of my customers never accepted as a Harley, but for everyone else, it’s a good bike and it will do well for now, but it lacks the magnetic pull the other’s have for various reasons, and it sold its soul to get here.
You might be right, however, I've traded my Fatboy for the Pan Am. I know the Pan Am is a different kind of bike, but I can finally take corners and have enough HP to also accelerate properly..
I think it will stack up to be a true Harley, however it really does need a decent exhaust to sound like one; I need to go back once Newmarket HD has swapped the pipe for a nice Screaming Eagle option.
@@marcdroste4217 same, I took a test ride and was smitten. At 6'5" it was so easy to ride. I traded my 2015 Ultra limited CVO!!
Great review! Your roads in the UK are definitely much more narrow than ours here in the US. Keep the shiny side up!
Thanks! Will do!
Enjoyed your review - thanks !
Cheers.
You are correct, the bend in the knees is more. on the H-D
I have a 2021 GS-1250 Triple Black, and the riding position is more Neutral .
My knees were not uncomfortable but indeed more bent! Cheers.
Tried a few and the H-D RA1250S won - Haven't regretted my decision once. All the things you say are spot on, just the HD styling appealed more than the BMW. I couldn't help noticing you were riding with the revs well down low - if you take the HD revs as a 3k baseline, then its a missile especially in Sport. Another mate with a BMW tried mine and was astounded on its achievement as a first attempt - BMW have had 40 yrs in this segment. Both aren't cheap to purchase or run and as much as many say the BMW has Shaft drive, having un seized 4 driveshafts in as young as 4 yrs old bikes in the BMW range, I'll take the chain anyday!....Its a very personal choice - both are brilliant bikes. I can say I haven't found any major faults or issues with the HD yet and long may it continue.
It is indeed very close to the BM but as you say the Harley is much faster. I have come across people with the shaft drive issues too, but I do hate oiling and adjusting chains (I have 3 bikes with chains though!) Looks are a personal choice too as you say too. Thank you for commenting.
Exceptional video, thanks. Harley done good.
Glad you liked it!
keep up the videos fen tour, I am new watching to your channel
Cheers Alex, thank you for watching. 👍
Great comparison video
Cheers John, glad you enjoyed the vid. 👍
MY opinion, because we all have one… I rode the Harley in a Hot Climate (Florida), and it is a bit warm on the inner legs, whereas the BMW is cooler.. the styling of the BMW wins in my opinion, the fact that the BMW has up and down quickshifter makes it more fun. I only have the R1200GS 2018 model and still found it to be more fun.
Indeed the BMW does not cook the rider on a hot day.
Thanks FT great review and video. I really needed to watch this as well because next week I collect mine. Like you I love my GS 1200 and after test riding a 1250 I was about to pull the trigger on buying one. That was until I test rode the PA. I too am not a particularly fast rider but having to get past a lorry on the test ride I opened it up and I could not believe the power it has. The Special I think is great value compared to the BMW as well. Unlike yourself I rode it seven miles before deciding to buy it. I know I know and I have come unstuck a few times which SWMBO loves to remind me of but once I am smitten all common sense disappears out of the window. Given the biking gear you are wearing I am guessing you already own a Harley so you will understand that owning a Harley is also gaining an entrance ticket to a big party in the UK & Europe. Riding to our local dealer Sykes reminds me of riding to the cafe back in the 60's. Of cause I have already had Harley owners telling me that its not a proper Harley but I remember being that that over a number of years when each new Triumph came out. Its just Bikers having the craic with each other.
Sadly probably when you were filming this I had attend the funeral of my Biker mate who lived in Heacham and drove along many of those bumpy roads. Unbelievable. Stay safe and you have gained another sub. Ted
Thank you for watching Ted, sorry for the slow reply I have been super busy! How are you getting on with your PA? I do hope it's still as awesome as your test ride?
@@FenTour Thanks for replying & no need for an apology. Yes it's proven to be a slow burner given I love BMW GS but I am now really enjoying it.Just like and bike it's now been out long enough for others to report on it's failings but I will worry when I experience any of them. Must say Sykes my HD dealer are the best & I have never brought a bike from any others other 50 years that were as good. Stay safe & avoid those Winter slippery roads Ted
Bugger! WIll be in a hammock in the middle of nowhere when this premieres. Was really looking forward to this, bah! Have to catch it on Sunday evening 🎥
The hammock sounds preferable... :-)
Brilliant review. It might of just been how it sounded while viewing the vid, but it sounded like an old generator. I would like to try one out. My local HD dealer are a nightmare though. Your not allowed to film it & you have to go on an accompanied ride. I find it so strange tgat when you consider all the manufacturers that make an Adventure bike it's the world renowned Adventure bike manufacturer Harley Davidson🤪 that make the bike lower as you stop. That is one of the main reasons I think people don't buy a GS. I mention this on a video im editing at the Adventure Bike Festival. I've nothing against Harley as you know, but I can't help thinking they are trying to re invent the wheel. One of our guys has ordered a Black one. It arrives in August. I'll see if I can do a video about why he bought it. Keep up the good work. 👍
I think Harley will do well with this bike, it's missing a few tricks such as a quick shifter and the auto lowering suspension is maybe not needed as much as keeping it low for tricky passes such a Hard Knott which you can do on a GS. But it will do well, especially once it has some louder pipes!
all bikes are getting euro spec exhaust now
I found some worse roads than that in the Fens last weekend, my Street Triple is covered head to foot in mud now. Must say as a short person the Pan America looks very appealing, I'd given up on adventure touring bikes, might just have to take a trip to Newmarket H-D.
ohhhh I hate the mud on fen roads, this winter was the worst ever! Hope you enjoy your test ride at Newmarket HD, say hello from me and they may give you a free coffee! cheers
Well done. Thank you.
Thank you. Cheers. 👍
Very informative. Thank you
cheers
Both great motorcycles. Harley motor exciting. Deciding factor for me may be the final drive. Chain vs shaft. Shaft superior in my opinion.
Shaft is great, chain is easy.
@@frankhubbardiv8711
Chain is also cheaper to do a custom ratio on. Part of my allure towards the bike. But like you said, it is definitely cheaper.
Shaft indeed is preferable for me too
Good comparison review. Surprised how well the Harley stacks up and although not a fan of the Boxer engine I'd go for the BMW. Shaft drive and resale value tipping the balance. But then not into Adventure bikes a 114 Heritage would be my choice so Harley wins the day. Cheers.
Fair enough, a M8 114 is an addictive power source!
I’m looking to upgrade my 18 V Strom 1000, in comparison to these two it’s very much budget and further down the pecking order, that said it’s proven to be reliable, it’ll cruise at 100 mph if you let it, and do around 240 miles between tanking. I genuinely like the look of the HD, I think the front end looks as though it’ll keep the wind blast off you and of course it’s the same as my V Strom anotherV Twin. The BMW however, looks more refined to me with a better seating position it definitely has the reputation of a quality product, BMW dealers also have a good rep, I’m not sure about HD.
GREAT REVIEW - I enjoyed riding around the very flat part of England with you, must take a trip over there looks good fun👍
Thank you for commenting, it's indeed close to BMW and I think you are right the BMW is a little more refined. Yes super flat here, the bumpy roads are challenging at times though!
Harley dealers are not all the same. Some places are very friendly, and will treat each customer like family, others treat you depending on how much you're willing to spend. By me there were 3 dealers, now it's 2. Hannums's & Valley forge(now closed, but was great) treat you pretty well, Brian's treated me and my cousin poorly(though they now have a new owner so I'm not sure if it's the same).
I'm a non-cruiser rider. HD is really trying to capture my needs in the market. Dang it HD! After 33 years of riding, you guys might be roping me in.
It is something very different indeed....
I own the 2021 Pan America due to the price deal I got. Short hate and likes: Hate the heat that it produces from the pipes close to your legs, no mirror application for google maps to the screen, no quick shifter, the metallic luggage rack has to always use the key to open and close can't leave it unlocked. The likes: adaptive height adjustment, no valve adjustment, steering stabilizer, for my area got plenty of service departments that can fix this bike when I need to. The BMW motorcycle shop is way too far and the same for KTM if they offered shuttle service I would have bought a BMW motorcycle.
I think for this year they have now added a quick shifter, as for the heat I have a friend who has one and has reported the same issue. Cheers.
If there is any thing that drives me crazy and they should have a total 'do over' on, it's the sat nav system. You need cell service all the time (unless you download things ahead of time) and the map is just poorly done. I ended up just mounting a Garmin sat nav system and simply don't even try using it any more. Otherwise, I think the bike is a real contender to the GS that I used to have. The HD crowd is pretty interested in it, as are the dealers, which is a welcomed surprise after my experience owning a Buell.
The guys here at Newmarket H-D are selling plenty these. I am not a big fan of the BMW nav (Garmin) don’t tend to use it much, I prefer OS Maps (UK only) or sometimes Google or Waze on my iPhone. So the nav being so so on the PA would not be an issue to me, shame it cannot download maps to the phone for off line guidance.
Really good video. I enjoyed watching it. As an owner of a BMW and a Harley Davidson I am considering consolidating both bikes into one and buying the Pan America. I do have two concerns about the Harley. The first is the brake rotors. For a 150bhp bike they are the same size as my touring model, and I wonder how they will cope with “fast” on-road braking. The Brembo calipers look like they are better quality, but its a potential issue. The second is Harleys build quality in the first year of production. My past experience says wait one year before buying a new model, probably like a lot of manufacturers, but I am waiting to ride the Pan America so will make my mind up after that.
I did not really mention the brakes in my video as that aspect of filming the Gopro messed up (or I did!) but the Brembos are indeed ample for stopping this bike from high speeds. Maybe you have a good point about the first year of production where issues may arise.
Having owned an R80GS and an R100GS in Australia 🇦🇺 and ridden them on dirt backroads, I find shaft drive hard to give up.
I’m 5’8 so the electronic adaptive height control on this bike is brilliant.
There’s a Triumph 900 Adventure Pro I’d also have a good look at.
I think the Triumph is also shaft drive?
@@FenTour Triumph 1200 too heavy and bulky off road. I wouldn't go passed Triumph 900 Pro. Big Adventure bikes too big and heavy to enjoy in wet muddy conditions for me any more.
A big differentiator has to be the price, I rode both bikes back to back as you did and I own a Multistrada 950S. I chose the Pan Am.
Indeed, the top spec PA is £1800 less than the top spec GS. Cheers for watching and commenting.
Very good review. I cannot ride either, too short! I like the Pan America in terms of looks but I am biased as I ride an M8 Softail. Thanks
@sowen74 thanks for that. Despite all the features with my 28" inseam it would be tipy-toes!
Both are high bikes indeed, good on the M8 softail they are superb... (Love my Fat Bob 114)
@@markhenry192 I have a shorter inseam than you(my suit pants measure at 26", in 5'10" 280#), and with the seat in the lower position, and the adaptive ride height I was almost flat foot(one foot flat, the other on ball of foot), if I had the shorter seat I would have been perfectly flat foot.
@@frankhubbardiv8711 that is surprising. The Pan America I saw at my local HD looked huge. Of course that one had no one sitting on it to trigger the adaptive ride height. Thanks.
@@markhenry192 yeah, I was worried after seeing one at the dealer, but it lowers once you turn on the ignition.
Interesting video...I like the HD; cheaper too!!
Indeed it's competitively priced.
Their both good.
Indeed
this is the first GOOD review of the pan am I've seen well done
Thank you very much
Love my R1250 GSA and generally speaking, wouldn't piss on an HD if it was on fire to put it out. However I'd give this bike a go just to see what it was, or wasn't about. Time will tell if it actually has staying power like the BMW.
You are right time will tell if Harley has the staying power in this adventure market.
Great video review buddy 👍 It's a very hard choice. Just like you said flip a coin 🪙
It’s a very cool bike indeed. Cheers Alan. 👍
Liked and subscribed.
any of those Big ADV bikes are good it's not the bike it's the rider to have the skills to go off-roading. For me, big adv are meant for the long-distance road with mild off-roading. Someone wanting to go off-roading primarily would want a less heavy bike and what country you are in that can service your motorcycle if you ever need repairs is a big plus. BMW drive shaft no maintenance of course but if it does big repair cost. I think there are valve adjustments on the BMW Gs every 12,000 miles vs pan American no valve adjustment. Every bike has there pros and cons just pick the bike you like or afford to get.
Thank you Mark for the comments, you are spot on it’s up to the individual. The shaft drive on the GS is nice, but as you say if it goes wrong big issues and costs. Also I am not keen on using such big bikes off road, but at least the suspension works well over bumpy roads. Cheers.
Great vid, love the grey colour way of the HD, but that headlight…can’t get my head round it’s design.
Thank you... yes the headlight is a little "Unique" but then again the wonky BMW front end was very different when it first appeared... The BMW looks have become an acquired taste, maybe will the Harley will eventually start to win hearts with the front??
Let me tell you why you hear the tire noise on BMW. because you don't hear that engine noise coming from the DH..
Good video. I had very similar feelings. I waited until the Pan America was available before buying a new ADV bike. I rode the HD and the BMW. Ultimately I chose the BMW, and I bought the adventure model. It came down to three key points. 1. I much prefer the shaft final drive. 2. I love the Telelever front suspension of the BMW. 3. The Adventure model hold almost 8 gallons of fuel which I need where I live in New Mexico.
I could add the engine heat issue, but it wasn’t really a decision point. I did feel a lot of heat on my right foot. It was a very hot day and I was in a city.
Interesting, here in the UK where I live the standard GS tank is plenty but of course where you plan to ride the Adventure was created for. Cheers for commenting.
Owned several Harley-Davidson bikes and bought my first GS last year. Sold my street glide this week actually and ordered a 40th anniversary GSA. Harley has done a great job but for me the looks of the front end, fender, and tank are much better. The single sided swing arm, gold wheels, and exhaust can look better on the BMW (between the two you showed). I have the noisy tires too but will end up with the street tires on the 40th anniversary bike. I’ll still keep one of my Harleys but the BMW is much easier to ride and the comfort is simply superior.
Indeed I also find the single sided arm attractive esp with the gold wheels, then I am biased! The tyres I have are noisy but not so bad so will wait to swap them out once well worn!
Good job, great review
Thank you
Hopefully,they’ve got all the bugs out of it for the 2022 model year.🤞🏻
They are selling well and I now know a few who have these, be interesting to see how they all get on over time.
Help, I'm pulling straws... Need to decide tomorrow!!
It’s not an easy decision, only you can decide!
@@FenTour went with the HD!
@@cdfort excelwnt, you will love it.
If it wasn't for competition [from Triumph circa 2012], the BMW may still be air-cooled.
You could be right there, competition is key to companies having to improve. (And emissions I guess too!)
Probably a very nice bike, but what bike company actually designed and built the engine? It seems too advanced a design for Harley to have tooled up to manufacture in such a short time.
It's not a completely new engine. They worked with Porche to design the engine for the V-Rod. That engine was retooled for the Street 500/750, and Street Rod. Then retooled further for the Bronx(hope this comes out eventually), Pan America, and 1250 custom(now called the Sportster S).
I think that they had some good knowledge from the old V Rod which was a water cooled 1200.
I'm a GS fanboy, thought I'd better own up! It looks a real good 1st attempt but I think it's more likely to be just behind the curve when compared to the big 3 from BMW, KTM and Ducati. In comparison to the GS it just looks less refined to me, the gap between exhaust and the rest of the bike looks wierd and the rear chainguard/swing arm looks untidy as does the front left of the engine with the fan on show. The actual looks are marmite as you say but not for me thanks though appreciate some might think different. From a riding perspective I love the telelever front end on the GS and could not go back to a chain after swapping to shaft drive. Again something else you don't appreciate until you have it is a quick shifter and I'd not have a bike without one now. It's heavier than a GS and although it has 150 hp vs 136 for the GS it only has 128 nm vs 143 and for me the torque is more important. It's claimed fuel consumption is 43mpg according to Harley's website which isn't bad, but no where near as good as a GS which means more miles between stops and less cost too. As far as the adaptive ride height is concerned I wonder how long it takes to reduce? If you had to brake heavily and stop quickly in an emergency would it still be at the higher setting so causing you problems as you're trying to get your feet down especially if you're short like me. I have a lowered GS with a seat height of 810mm which if you're short would seem a better option to me. Anyway as I've said a good first attempt and it deserves to sell and more competition can only be a good thing but I can't see it outselling the GS.
After test riding one and being a shorter rider of 5'7", I'm sold. The adaptive ride height feature is brilliant! It literally lowers the bike 2" plus another 1" for the adjustable factory seat. The suspension is great, very comfortable, the ride modes are spot on, and it is fast. Very, very nimble and a blast in the twisties/curves. Both are great bikes but over in the US, having 700 dealerships availability is a great selling point. If you have a problem with a BMW, KTM or Ducati, you are S.O.L for support as the dealerships or even finding a mechanic (or parts) is non-existent unless you live in a huge metro city like LA, Atlanta, Dallas, Seattle, Boston, etc. The nearest BMW motorcycle dealership for me is 4 hours away and the nearest KTM/Ducati dealership is 9 hours away, the nearest Harley dealership is 20 mins, the one after that is 45 min. Even Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, Yamaha dealerships are few in numbers and are mostly selling off road vehicles now. The good thing for us consumers is the competition factor and we benefit from it. Let us see what BMW and the others do to up their game.
We get it, you like your GS.
@@yayoi1 I do indeed, but if you don't and prefer something else I'm fine with that👍
Thank you for the comprehensive comment, in the brief test ride I had the ride height seems to lower very quickly; but that was during the "in town" bit of my ride. For a tricky mountain pass maybe not so good, on my GS I can pre select "Low" for such a road which is a nice option. I averaged 64mpg on a recent 1500 mile tour on the R1250GS, 43mpg is way less.... cheers
@@FenTour you're welcome. I get over 60 mpg from my GS too but didn't want to say as some might have thought I'd been on something! I guess you've seen the PA "blow up" on youtube from the adv weekend? Apparently it was more a case of a hose getting damaged after being dropped at low speed earlier in the day though if I was going to go offroad on it the thought of being stranded in the middle of nowhere because of a vulnerable hose position would be a bit concerning. Time will tell I guess if that was a one off or a poor design
Well, the Harley dealer network in North America is second to none by a country mile. How is it in the UK and Europe as that is a big part of the equation.
My local dealer (the one in the video) is awesome, they really look after me with my Fat Bob 114, but then again I have had dealings with two local dealers for BMW Lind and Sycamore and again they have both really looked after me as a customer.
@@FenTour yes, no doubt they are all good but how far they are for people to ride to is more the big question.
Yes, Harley network in The States is plentiful, Not so with BMW here, plus all the recalls with BMW make it even more of a hassle.
@@doublex632 same up here in Canada and one reason I stick with Harleys. Anyone close by can fix them. I bought the Pan America Sp for many reasons but dealer network was a no brainer.
I’m currently riding a Ducati Monster and need a more upright bike. Looking at a Multistrada 950s (loved the ride), used 1200gs and a Pan America (loved the ride too). Living in Wisconsin the dealer network is a big part of the equation.
Honda Africa Twin has proven itself over time, miles and every continent around the world! I have never had a Honda let me down or not get me home. I’ve owned more bikes and brands over my 47 years of riding than I can remember but there has always been at least one Honda in my garage.
I must try an Africa twin someday
Harley will have to do it to stay in the market most younger people don’t know any thing about wrenching
More Harleys due out soon using that new 1250 motor.
Agree, been working on bikes over 20 years. Then again, today working with new software....wish I had a young person to show me how. LOL. It's a give and take.
@@MotoBeemer oh that’s ok carbs are the easiest still think it’s better then fuel injectors
@@williamkennedy8768
I take issue with carbs. I am a young buck and find EFI more pleasant. Better fuel economy, more power, less problematic, and less tempermental. I had a '98 shadow and good god those carbs were a nightmare to deal with. A unique set of circumstances governed my experience, but ruined my desire to ever deal with those things ever again. I can deal with electronics much more than I can with a fussy set of carbs.
@@willpestka2745 oh yes it is but hope you never have to rebuild it way more parts
*Observations*
Harley Davison motorcycles has gone electric (failed) and now going "adventure" bike (possible fail too). The company Harley-David (HD)
has been trying a lot of different things to survive.
Sadly most motorcyclist born these days don't like Harley *_unreliability,_* Harley culture, and Harley NO-customer service.
I, personally will never understand the HD sales people that treat potential buyers with snottiness & many times just ignore the possible customer.
Happy _Labor Day!_ (to Americans)
I have been looked after well here by Newmarket Harley and no major issues, yes Harley need to work had as the world changes... the new Sportster S may help them a lot.
@@FenTour After a little research I find that actually the Pan American is selling very well. So that might help Harley Davidson recover from years of losses. Anyway, Newmarket Harley Davidson in the UK may be a nice exception to the rule. But I am just talking about American HD. God Bless
@@sweetcostarica I do hear a lot of moans from USA Harley riders about the dealer network.
At this point, the bmw is still way more refined,there is a Canadian guy that have problems with the pan am heating up his right leg, and he have to wrap the exhaust, while looking at his you tube video,the rear cylinder exhaust clamp bolt is like a mile long! I do like the fact that the valves are hydraulic, that I prefer for maintenance purposes!
It really did get quite uncomfortably hot in town, the BMW is never so hot.
@@FenTour I never ever find my bmw hot at all
Hands down the GS
Gs forever
Go Starbucks, forever
Well, no the BMW is still faster. There have been a few head to head vids showing the BMW out dragging the HD!
I am probably the last person to ask about speed, but to me it was quicker when reved... the BMW more grunt so quicker for how I ride if that makes sence!
Harley has a lot of proving to do before I consider them, they have such a terrible track record. I'm glad they are turning towards a better direction with that bike though.
Maybe worth waiting a year or so for teething issues to be gone.
I wouldn’t chance a first year run on the HD, and notice my avatar. I much prefer the 1250 GSA and I’d love to own one someday.
Will be interesting to see how well this does over time.
Never road them off road- they are ADV bikes-
Most who purchase these like me never leave the tarmac, if I did I would crash!
I dont know why people are saying a good review, was awful, missed out so much key info failed to point out the crap lights on the Harley ( no night ride) and the flimsy centre stand both make the bike not worth half the price they are asking wheras the BMW GS is a thing of beauty and beautiful design, the Harley is like a korean car, kinda looks like a Japanese or European car but doesnt have the quality
Sorry that i did not do a night ride... hahaha
Bmw GS 👍🏽
Still my choice too! But it’s close.
I have to say, and this is just opinion, but I rode the Harley and then straight to BMW to ride the 40th annvs NON adventure GS. I own two Harleys, RGS and a Low Rider S and love em both. I did not, however, like the Pan America at all. It was heavy, the engine was odd, the whole bike felt loose and like every Harley I have had the handlebars/front end was crooked. The BMW was leaps and bounds better IMHO, smoother, tighter, better torque, more comfortable, better handling and WAY better tech. I owned and loved the KTM 1290 (2017) which is the best competitor to the BMW and in many ways better but I don't think Harley has gotten there with this Pan America.....again, just opinion but and educated one.
Thank you for commenting, interesting but I do wonder if these initial bikes are being put together a bit hap hazard? I did not find the bike loose at all and another PA test rider I spoke to found the brakes wanting compared to the GS.
Untested (in the real world, by real consumers) brand new HD motor in an adventure bike? I see being stranded in the middle of no where "a thing". Sure, in time, any bugs (by some miracle, there may be none) may be sorted out, but until then BMW have the edge. Shaft drive failures aside.
Indeed BMW have been here for 40 years, but as you say shaft drive issues come up once in a while.
There's always possibly of issues with new designs, so I see your point, but Harley(26% fail rate over 4 years) is far higher on the list of reliability then BMW(40% failure rate over 4 years), which is worth noting with that thought process. Time will tell, I hope it does well, though I am afraid Harley will leave the air cooled cruisers in the past if the Revo Max does well.
@@frankhubbardiv8711 sure, personally speaking I would not buy a first run of ANY motorcycle, car, you name it - unless it was Japanese - but even then I'd prefer to wait. You are totally right about BMW v HD though - I agree. I would not buy a new BMW myself.
@@user-us1hx2cx3j I agree. Only reason I'd by first year would be, I have money to spare, and want to for collector reasons.
In weight and power and ethos the Pan America is closest to the GS, having said that though the Pan America is not in the same league as the Multistrada or the KTM 1290 not by any stretch of the imagination.
I have not ridden either of those beasties to be able to comment.
That harley is one ugly bike. Also the mirrors are on thin sticks shocking bike cant hold a candle to my gsa
I think Harley has had a lot of issues, GS seems better built for sure.
OMG. This is absolutely one of the worst reviews I have ever tried to listen to. The positive reviews are seriously questionable. Listen and you be the judge. I so want to buy a Pan America, but after considerable research and analysis of all the serious problems the Pan America has, I will not be buying a Pan America. The problems are so serious that Harley's CEO Jochen Zeitz should be fired. The Harley dealers and service centers are wonderful people. This Pan America is a very bad reflection on these wonderful people. I currently ride a 2017 Road Glide Special and a Suzuki V-Strom. I prefer the V-Strom.
My friend Andy had one, it let him down 3 times , the dealer seemingly struggling to know whey; so has now moved to Triumph.