It's been decades since geometry and drafting class, so this vid was super handy. It isn't for clay pots, but rather for a transition cone between two different size tubes for a rocket I am building. Thanks a bunch, Robert! I'll admit though, I've always wanted to throw a pot or something. Someday...maybe.
This is great! I come from a carpentry background and now teach middle school Design. I always prefer ways of solving layout problems that don't involve math. Thanks!
I need to make a squirrel baffle so this is very helpful.👍 I've always loved math related problems and figuring out solutions to problems but unfortunately, although I know a little about geometry, I never took a class and find myself searching for the proper way to calculate shape related problems or the easiest way to solve a problem if precision isn't critical. I owe you a huge THANK YOU for sharing the simplified way of making a cone. Sometimes I get too bogged down by overthinking. 😄 Thanks again! 😊
Your handwriting is amazing. Looks exactly like a set of prints. Super impressed with that and the video thank you! God bless and be safe . This world is getting crazy
It took me a second to understand why you marked off the radius 6 times. I realized that its rough 2*pi*r (2x3.14xradius) which is roughly radius times six. I hope this helps other people who maybe are confused by this. The tutorial is great but maybe could be more clear about the reason why 6 was given or why 3 was given--as a rounded version of pi (3.14). Hope this helps others! Thanks for the tutorial.
It's there at 18 seconds into the video. Your note is more clearly described than my narrative. You are quick enough to figure out the tinsmith's rule of thumb as a math problem on your own. I made this video for my students in part to show how math works out in physical form. The relation between chord length and arc length and pi is interesting to me, even as an artist. When using this way of making patterns for clay vessels, the fit of pieces can be adjusted easily by stretching or shrinking the material. When using this method for sheet metal, the patterns can be adjusted or a pattern offered up to a fabricated conical section.
@@robertbanker5319 Thanks for your comment Robert and my bad for just missing the remark! And I didn't mean to be critical, the video is great and was just what i needed! I am learning pattern drafting for sewing and I had a heckuva time trying to figure this out initially and your video was very helpful! Thank you!
@@AcidAlan Not offended by your thoughtful message at all. I am always open to suggestions for how to explain things better. Most of the students I have shown these methods to cannot connect the math concept to the physical pattern.
Caught you at 666 subscribers lol. Thanks for this video. Lots of other videos out there over complicate this. Yours simple and to the point. Thanks a bunch
This was extremely helpful! Thanks so much for the video. My new template is excellent. I had to use the 2nd method because my compass is far too small. Thanks again!
Omg ..I will try it right now.. Actually I made a Mini torch kind of thing ,now I want a light Reflector (I don't know exact terminology..)..this video is waht I was looking for
Im wondering if sketching the cone up-side-down, for the first method, would make things less confusing for first timers. Just like in the second method, with the cone sketch inverted, the wider radius line lines up with the outside curve (arc) and vise versa. Took me a minute to understand before I flipped it over in my head, lol.
Good information. I know you are a draftsman just by your mechanical pencils The Japanese made Pentel P203 (0.3 mm), P205 (0.5 mm), P207 (0.7 mm), and P209 (0.9mm) have been the drafting industry standard since at least the 1970's up until CAD drafting took over. I own them all, highest quality mechanical pencils ever made, and reasonably priced. I still have all my K&M triangles, scales, compasses, and other drafting gear. I am on the hunt for a drafting machine and large table as CAD software especially AutoCAD is crazy expensive for just home tinkering projects.
Thanks for the comment. I spent ten years as a draftsman in an architect's office. Before computer drafting was common. We designed on trace and drew on mylar. For basic work, it seems faster to me to use a pencil and paper. You don't have to turn something on to see what you are working on. Good luck finding a drafting table. Local listings sometimes have tables with drafting machines cheap because no one knows how to use one.
I am trying to cover a cheap laundry basket from dollar tree with a fine mesh fabric to use over plants and make them chipmunk/rabbit proof. How do use this info to do that? the basket is conical d =17 h =12 b = 11 Please help. This should be easy but I am having a very senior moment
I've been following your tutorial and I had the assumption that the base of the drawing would be the diameter of the base circle. But every time I've done it the base has been way bigger than my cut out. Do you know what I might be doing wrong?
I am not sure that I follow your question. Here is a try based on what I imagine you are doing. If using the first method with a compass, you don't measure using the diameter of the circle. You use the radius - half the diameter - to determine the length of the arc that you drew with the compass. 6 X the radius. In the second method where the sketch of the shape is reproduced three times, you are using the diameter. The reason you step off the measurement of an arc using the radius is that the smaller steps are more accurate, the difference between the straight "line" you are using to measure with and the arc you drew is less. If this isn't helpful, try to describe which method you are using another way.
This is a tinsmith's rule of thumb. The mathematical formula for circumference of a circle = 2 x pi x r. Pi is just short of 3. therefore 6x r. If you are stepping off an arc with dividers or compass, it is more accurate to use radius than circumference. The radius length is closer to the arc length. The difference between using 3 for pi and 3.14 is close enough to the difference between the length of the chord of the arc you are measuring with the dividers and the actual length of the arc. So the tinsmith's rule of thumb skips the use of math and numbers.
I look at the paper that I am going to cut out to make a pattern and just stick the point of the compass in where I can strike a long enough arc. Draw the larger arc first. I have enough experience to roughly know how much of an arc I am going to need. Something like 3X the diameter is OK . I use 6X radius when measuring since it is more accurate when making pieces that fit together. Since I am cheap, I commonly put the pattern parts close together so I use less paper. I watch students put a small part in the middle of a large sheet of drawing paper and realize they have never cut anything out in metal or another material that is expensive. It is probably easier if you draw your design on one piece of paper and make the patterns on another. This way you will be more likely to save your design. Sorry for the confusion but I can't say everything and keep it short enough for anyone to actually watch.
@@robertbanker5319 Good morning from UK, Robert many thanks for this super reply. Your video was well made. I suppose I am one of those grumpy people who expects everything to be just right. Since locating particular points seemed to be important I couldn't assume that the origin of this arc was random - respecting only economy of material. Now I know what you want us to understand. It all makes sense now. Many years ago at lunch pause at work (tube fabrication) an elderly tinsmith showed the group (using chalk on a welding table) how to project a lobsterback (for a rotating ventilator). He made his point that we had an awful lot to learn. Sad to say I have forgotten everything since then so looked at your video to recover some element of faded memory. Very nice to do. I shall put this to the test very soon. YOUR REPLY TO ME WILL SURELY HELP MANY. thanks again !
@@causewaykayak Glad to help. I don't always reply or do so promptly but your response lets me know it helps to do so. This is simple geometry compared to the work done in a fabrication shop or sheet metal - in the old days. I find it fascinating to work with patterns but did not understand how to make one when I started doing this. I began by just cutting paper and clay and folding things up. Only later did I catch the connection with metalworking. You might want to look for a book on tinsmithing. I have found old books useful and sometimes they are reprinted. Look for The Tinsmith's Helper and Pattern Book. Some texts on the topic will show three or four ways to come up with the same shape or how to lay out complex shapes that are well beyond anything I can use in my work (in clay mostly). Your old tinsmith would know this stuff from experience. I show students how to do things like this just to catch those who are interested. Maybe explain a simple curve vs a compound curve. Of course, they are not always interested in using compass and pencil. The modern tinsmith would probably design on a computer and have the software plot the stretchout and maybe even cut the metal. Somewhere along the way, skilled hands will still be necessary.
@@robertbanker5319 Tha is for the book suggestion. I will check our public library but most likely will have to fall back to an online store. I recently needed a 1/8" steel basket making for a small backyard forge. I made the template in stiff card and added a cutout separately to close splayed corners. At the fab shop the owner looked doubtful at my angles (had from direct measurement) and took some persuading that if it worked on a template it ought to work in steel. At a price he took in the job but still had to wait for his computer chap to draw it in CAD ... because that way he could telegraph the job to another town where a remotely operated plasma cutter would doing the metal cutting. Must say if did a neat job but VERY expensive. I still use French Curves (do you call them that?) to get nice flowing lines in woodwork jobs. I find so many guys today are impatient to get results and very few of them work with hand tools where a powered option is available. Result is most lads can't saw, can't set out mortices, The hand work skills these days are becoming the preserve of a small minority of specialists. I recently saw a film on the u tube where a gentleman made an engraved brass astrolabe from plate - even creating a small lathe (watchmakers type) to turn small buttons and spindles. Such patience and a thing of beauty to show for it. Turning, engraving, gear cutting, plus the astronomical knowledge. Not unsurprisingly he was an Israeli craftsman and he engraved his device Arab style IN ARABIC. I know I just fell over in admiration. Thanks for your time sir, All the best from Northern Ireland.
I've struggled with this concept for over 60 years! You just ironed out all the wrinkles in the problem! THANK YOU 🍀🌹🍀
I am glad I could help. It is interesting to solve geometry problems more than one way.
It's been decades since geometry and drafting class, so this vid was super handy. It isn't for clay pots, but rather for a transition cone between two different size tubes for a rocket I am building. Thanks a bunch, Robert! I'll admit though, I've always wanted to throw a pot or something. Someday...maybe.
Lmao, I am here for the exact same reason. I need to make some rocket cones
RUclips: what happens when rocket science meets non-rocket scientists. 😅
This is great! I come from a carpentry background and now teach middle school Design. I always prefer ways of solving layout problems that don't involve math. Thanks!
A well-explained tutorial and exactly what I need to create accurate templates for slab-built clay pots.
I thought I could make a dimensional cone until I tried. But watching your methods makes it really easy. Thank you so very much.
I need to make a squirrel baffle so this is very helpful.👍 I've always loved math related problems and figuring out solutions to problems but unfortunately, although I know a little about geometry, I never took a class and find myself searching for the proper way to calculate shape related problems or the easiest way to solve a problem if precision isn't critical. I owe you a huge THANK YOU for sharing the simplified way of making a cone. Sometimes I get too bogged down by overthinking. 😄 Thanks again! 😊
My high school geometry teacher would be happy to see me using a compass and straightedge.
Your handwriting is amazing. Looks exactly like a set of prints. Super impressed with that and the video thank you! God bless and be safe . This world is getting crazy
Thanks for your excellent 'no-nonsense' tutorial!
Fantastic. Nice to find some clear and simple instructions after watching several other confusing videos. Thanks.
Amazing! Thank you for the refresher and the quick way to do it with only a pencil and cutting tool!
Exactly what I needed and easy to follow. Thank you!
It took me a second to understand why you marked off the radius 6 times. I realized that its rough 2*pi*r (2x3.14xradius) which is roughly radius times six. I hope this helps other people who maybe are confused by this. The tutorial is great but maybe could be more clear about the reason why 6 was given or why 3 was given--as a rounded version of pi (3.14). Hope this helps others! Thanks for the tutorial.
It's there at 18 seconds into the video. Your note is more clearly described than my narrative. You are quick enough to figure out the tinsmith's rule of thumb as a math problem on your own. I made this video for my students in part to show how math works out in physical form. The relation between chord length and arc length and pi is interesting to me, even as an artist. When using this way of making patterns for clay vessels, the fit of pieces can be adjusted easily by stretching or shrinking the material. When using this method for sheet metal, the patterns can be adjusted or a pattern offered up to a fabricated conical section.
@@robertbanker5319 Thanks for your comment Robert and my bad for just missing the remark! And I didn't mean to be critical, the video is great and was just what i needed! I am learning pattern drafting for sewing and I had a heckuva time trying to figure this out initially and your video was very helpful! Thank you!
@@AcidAlan Not offended by your thoughtful message at all. I am always open to suggestions for how to explain things better. Most of the students I have shown these methods to cannot connect the math concept to the physical pattern.
Super fast method (I used the first method). Extremely clear video. I used this for sewing, but the principle is the same everywhere.
Thank you for posting this video... it was Extremely instruction and informative. you made it quite understandable to do. Thank you.!
Bliss. Thank you so much for this beautiful video. I want to make a lampshade and now have the answer I needed. ;)
really wanted help for this and got exactly what I wanted 👍
Caught you at 666 subscribers lol. Thanks for this video. Lots of other videos out there over complicate this. Yours simple and to the point. Thanks a bunch
This was extremely helpful! Thanks so much for the video. My new template is excellent. I had to use the 2nd method because my compass is far too small. Thanks again!
I don't usually comment on YT. But really, thank you so much for this.
Worked great!! Thank🙂you
Thank you very much....well done....your like a human cnc machine 😊
Omg ..I will try it right now.. Actually I made a Mini torch kind of thing ,now I want a light Reflector (I don't know exact terminology..)..this video is waht I was looking for
I wanted to make miniature lampshades. Yoyr video was excellent. Thankyou
Im wondering if sketching the cone up-side-down, for the first method, would make things less confusing for first timers. Just like in the second method, with the cone sketch inverted, the wider radius line lines up with the outside curve (arc) and vise versa. Took me a minute to understand before I flipped it over in my head, lol.
Awesome second method. Thanks
Good information. I know you are a draftsman just by your mechanical pencils The Japanese made Pentel P203 (0.3 mm), P205 (0.5 mm), P207 (0.7 mm), and P209 (0.9mm) have been the drafting industry standard since at least the 1970's up until CAD drafting took over. I own them all, highest quality mechanical pencils ever made, and reasonably priced. I still have all my K&M triangles, scales, compasses, and other drafting gear. I am on the hunt for a drafting machine and large table as CAD software especially AutoCAD is crazy expensive for just home tinkering projects.
Thanks for the comment. I spent ten years as a draftsman in an architect's office. Before computer drafting was common. We designed on trace and drew on mylar. For basic work, it seems faster to me to use a pencil and paper. You don't have to turn something on to see what you are working on. Good luck finding a drafting table. Local listings sometimes have tables with drafting machines cheap because no one knows how to use one.
Thank you!!
Your approximation of PI disappoints me :)
Wow excellent. Thanks it's really helpfull
Good work!
Thank you so much for sharing that knowledge
Thank you Robert
This looks so complicated. Definitely meant for smart people! Lol
Thanks 🎉
Thank you soooo much!!!
Nice video thank you sir
should I just draw those dimensions and copy three times?
how about lower height of cone
I am trying to cover a cheap laundry basket from dollar tree with a fine mesh fabric to use over plants and make them chipmunk/rabbit proof. How do use this info to do that? the basket is conical d =17 h =12 b = 11 Please help. This should be easy but I am having a very senior moment
Send me more video I love it
I've been following your tutorial and I had the assumption that the base of the drawing would be the diameter of the base circle. But every time I've done it the base has been way bigger than my cut out. Do you know what I might be doing wrong?
I am not sure that I follow your question. Here is a try based on what I imagine you are doing. If using the first method with a compass, you don't measure using the diameter of the circle. You use the radius - half the diameter - to determine the length of the arc that you drew with the compass. 6 X the radius. In the second method where the sketch of the shape is reproduced three times, you are using the diameter. The reason you step off the measurement of an arc using the radius is that the smaller steps are more accurate, the difference between the straight "line" you are using to measure with and the arc you drew is less.
If this isn't helpful, try to describe which method you are using another way.
Thank you Sir💕
Why did you only measure half of the base . 4 layout of cone base . Why was 6 used for base layout .. instead of pie
This is a tinsmith's rule of thumb. The mathematical formula for circumference of a circle = 2 x pi x r. Pi is just short of 3. therefore 6x r. If you are stepping off an arc with dividers or compass, it is more accurate to use radius than circumference. The radius length is closer to the arc length. The difference between using 3 for pi and 3.14 is close enough to the difference between the length of the chord of the arc you are measuring with the dividers and the actual length of the arc. So the tinsmith's rule of thumb skips the use of math and numbers.
Sir can I request round wye reducer
Tech me to make elbow please
How to make a rat guard
At 1:32 your hands obscure the placement of the compass point
I look at the paper that I am going to cut out to make a pattern and just stick the point of the compass in where I can strike a long enough arc. Draw the larger arc first. I have enough experience to roughly know how much of an arc I am going to need. Something like 3X the diameter is OK . I use 6X radius when measuring since it is more accurate when making pieces that fit together. Since I am cheap, I commonly put the pattern parts close together so I use less paper. I watch students put a small part in the middle of a large sheet of drawing paper and realize they have never cut anything out in metal or another material that is expensive. It is probably easier if you draw your design on one piece of paper and make the patterns on another. This way you will be more likely to save your design. Sorry for the confusion but I can't say everything and keep it short enough for anyone to actually watch.
@@robertbanker5319 Good morning from UK, Robert many thanks for this super reply. Your video was well made. I suppose I am one of those grumpy people who expects everything to be just right. Since locating particular points seemed to be important I couldn't assume that the origin of this arc was random - respecting only economy of material. Now I know what you want us to understand. It all makes sense now. Many years ago at lunch pause at work (tube fabrication) an elderly tinsmith showed the group (using chalk on a welding table) how to project a lobsterback (for a rotating ventilator). He made his point that we had an awful lot to learn. Sad to say I have forgotten everything since then so looked at your video to recover some element of faded memory. Very nice to do. I shall put this to the test very soon. YOUR REPLY TO ME WILL SURELY HELP MANY. thanks again !
@@causewaykayak Glad to help. I don't always reply or do so promptly but your response lets me know it helps to do so. This is simple geometry compared to the work done in a fabrication shop or sheet metal - in the old days. I find it fascinating to work with patterns but did not understand how to make one when I started doing this. I began by just cutting paper and clay and folding things up. Only later did I catch the connection with metalworking. You might want to look for a book on tinsmithing. I have found old books useful and sometimes they are reprinted. Look for The Tinsmith's Helper and Pattern Book. Some texts on the topic will show three or four ways to come up with the same shape or how to lay out complex shapes that are well beyond anything I can use in my work (in clay mostly). Your old tinsmith would know this stuff from experience.
I show students how to do things like this just to catch those who are interested. Maybe explain a simple curve vs a compound curve. Of course, they are not always interested in using compass and pencil. The modern tinsmith would probably design on a computer and have the software plot the stretchout and maybe even cut the metal. Somewhere along the way, skilled hands will still be necessary.
@@robertbanker5319 Tha is for the book suggestion. I will check our public library but most likely will have to fall back to an online store.
I recently needed a 1/8" steel basket making for a small backyard forge. I made the template in stiff card and added a cutout separately to close splayed corners. At the fab shop the owner looked doubtful at my angles (had from direct measurement) and took some persuading that if it worked on a template it ought to work in steel. At a price he took in the job but still had to wait for his computer chap to draw it in CAD ... because that way he could telegraph the job to another town where a remotely operated plasma cutter would doing the metal cutting. Must say if did a neat job but VERY expensive.
I still use French Curves (do you call them that?) to get nice flowing lines in woodwork jobs. I find so many guys today are impatient to get results and very few of them work with hand tools where a powered option is available. Result is most lads can't saw, can't set out mortices, The hand work skills these days are becoming the preserve of a small minority of specialists. I recently saw a film on the u tube where a gentleman made an engraved brass astrolabe from plate - even creating a small lathe (watchmakers type) to turn small buttons and spindles. Such patience and a thing of beauty to show for it. Turning, engraving, gear cutting, plus the astronomical knowledge. Not unsurprisingly he was an Israeli craftsman and he engraved his device Arab style IN ARABIC. I know I just fell over in admiration. Thanks for your time sir, All the best from Northern Ireland.
Terrible not a teacher