Indian managers only hires indians. 15 engineers on my team. 1 is chinese the rest are indian. Manager is indian. His manager is indian. Diversity on the team was ranked high despite 93% of the team being indian. You know why? Cause the team itself is in charge of voting.
Dude i worked in a telco as assistant ops lead, i was the highest ranking white guy in a white country. Entire place was ran by indians and nepotism, it was crazy, never though i'd experienced racism in my own country against myself.
We have the same MAJOR problem in Canada. "Temporary foreign workers" have all but eliminated entry level jobs for teenagers or students. We wanted talented, skilled and useful foreign workers. Not unskilled "students" who never actually leave
That’s really a Canada only problem. Australia, the UK and NZ don’t have guaranteed pathways for international students to citizenship for this reason. Canada did.
At least you have free healthcare over there, we're completely likely to lose our healthcare after Trump gets into office as he's already pushing Republicans that are in office to take away SSI.
I've worked in IT for 25 years. The H1B visa program has been ritually abused by tech firms forever (esp. Microsoft and Facebook). The biggest lie that Musk is pushing is that H1B visa holders are "highly skilled". I've worked with many H1B visas that simply took a 3-week training course before they get sent here. And then, they fail because its clear that they don't have the necessary skills, so they get sent back. OTOH, I've worked with H-1Bs that were excellent and should be here. But the majority are here to get stuck in a job and they're paid half as much as a skilled American. Also, there is *certainly* some cultural nepotism going on. Indians will always prefer to hire fellow Indians. They actively dislike Americans and shit on us regularly. They think we're stupid and uneducated and that we have terrible schools. It drives me nuts because my salary has ABSOLUTELY been affected by H-1B visas.
Musk should be arrested and deported. He claims he initially entered the country on an H1-B visa. That was a lie. That lie is a felony when told during the process of trying to get a security clearance.
As someone in tech, what you need to know is that a lot of Indian management exclusively hires other Indians from their same town/college. It’s been like this for years. There is no “top talent” coming, these are entry level jobs that any new grad would love to have, but they are going to people overseas. Companies get acquired by private equity, they replace management with Indians and offshore teams to India and sometimes also have some American Indians who can communicate with them.This is a routine playbook for many private equity companies and private equity cares about 1 thing only, making money and this is the most cost effective strategy
If you have leadership that spots nepotism, this wont be a problem. Its a case by case basis within each company. I would argue that tesla and space x do not allow for nepotism of this sort.
It's the same for public companies that are already global and can shift high paying jobs to India and it won't be so obvious when everyone is working from home. That's how I lost my job. Unemployed 2 years, now working for 60% of what I was making in 2022. I would also like to add, there are MANY recent engineering grads from very highly regarded universities that CANNOT find a job right now.
Almost like people don't like competing against people that take 1/4th of the salary and work 80 hours a week because the only reason they are allowed to stay in America is for work, so if they speak up, the company just gets rid of them and ruins their whole life. Almost.
Depends on the company. If the jobs are in short supply, then competition will make sure the pay is good. If supply is low, then I can see that being a problem.
@tomyourfriendlyhagcollector Oh, I think you might be mistaken, so viveck is a cabinet member elect, and elon Musk is gonna be the head of the department of government efficiency, so don't worry, because if you'll see neither of them are actually members of an oligarchy, not to mention the US is a democratic republic, not a oligarchy so don't worry 😉
"extremely skilled" is the stretch. My whole team was laid off and replaced with a bigger team of h1b workers. About 8 months later, they were begging to rehire most of our team, because "the product is falling apart". Product was fine, they just weren't meeting deadlines anymore and quality had dropped a bit. None of us accepted. H1B is not about a shortage of skilled workers, it's about a shortage of skilled workers willing to accept near third world pay. Our pay isn't even that much substantially more when you account for our debt burden from American education. Vivek is right, our culture needs work, but the real solution is decreasing the cost of education and increasing the quality in the states. Not inundating the hiring pool and depressing the wages of our citizens.
increase the cost of education for non stem or non business fields and lower it for stem and business... boom more people will route to the cheaper option for education and you will have an abundant selection of young american stem professionals.
i noticed it in my own group projects. People from west europe, US, or other developped nations did great. No bad words about a single pole i worked with either. same for hungarians, or other central europeans. also. It was significantly easier to work with engineers who were minorities in my country than it was to work with the same minority groups as foreigners. (DEI isnt as big here and they usually had good communication skills and a shared culture around taking responsibility for stuff and speaking up even if their technical skills weren't top notch) When you're dividing a project id much rather have someone who can be reliable and tell me what he can and cant do at a certain point in time than someone whos a hassle to communicate with.
DEI just exacerbated everything. If I were a CEO and I heard "Women make 30% less", my thought wouldn't be "Those poor women", it wold be "How can we reduce men's pay by 30%?". And we'd get government/Blackrock subsidies for hiring them at 30% less? Sign me up now!!
@@goprochef6352 They can't even fix their own country? What makes you think they are actually top talent and not just a lower cost employee that companies want to increase profit margins.
@@zakyrath Due to India's sub-par infrastructure, the republic focuses on investing in infrastructure-light fields, such as infotech. Ironically, this strategy was successful, but due to pay differences in the US and India, IT businesses in the US do get better levels of talent by hiring Indians, who work better, complain less and could be up at a time when Americans are sleeping. Not that profit margins aren't a concern, but it isn't the primary factor.
During WW2 we took all scientist from Hitler Germany . Including Albert Einstein. Top talent we need regardless. And America school is far behind it's not even a secret. We need to catch up and fix schools and programs
You're ignorant then. Why would they grant them visas to work in the U.S. where they can earn a higher wage compared to staying in their home countries? They could simply outsource to places like India, which is what many tech companies are doing these days.
Zack doesn’t realize we have a record number of American students graduating with CS degrees and they cannot find a job. It’s NOT because they lack skills; a fellow grad from their same university who happens to be from India, for instance, has an easier time finding work for multiple reasons-racial nepotism like you mentioned, they’ll accept lower wages, they’re willing to work harder because the employer is sponsoring their visa and potentially providing a path to them getting a green card. They’ll put up with more because they’re essentially indentured servants (regardless of what conservative think tanks like the cato institute say)
It's not even that they work harder, they're just willing to put up with whatever conditions are forced upon them because it's better than wading through streets of shit in India. American grads are smarter and produce better work, these companies literally just don't want to pay them.
There are others that also call it being basically indentured servitude, and it's accurate. Indians are being brought in as indentured servants, and people coming over the border illegally are just a hair short from being slaves.
As my experience, newer generations of cs graduates are not prepared for work, they do not have the necessary skills, their education failed them, I don’t blame them, but the fact is they are just not qualify in general. Many of them need to go to training boot camp to prepare them for work is telling.
Asmon, wait till you know people who get an Indian H1B manager, who lays off an entire department and fills it with H1B friends for far less money and give them better benefits, than their American counterparts that were laid off and that still don't offset the pay gap between the H1B holder and the native citizen.
Yep. Whole lot of entry level jobs. Some of the more interesting ones which have popped up are: pickleball coach and manager, 7/11 manager, bunch of hotel cooks, vegas chippendales dancer. Definitely a whole lot of skilled labor that you can't find in the US.
Hold on there, Asmagold. Operation paperclip was about a select few scientists with unavailable advanced knowledge, who integrated flawlessly. Not the mass replacement of the working class with low wage foreigners.
I mean the guy talks like he knows shit about WW2 but whenever it comes to it he is actually clueless about most of it. Bro still thinks the germans actually made soap out of the jews ffs...
Yeap we already have a visa program for that it is called O-1 to get top talent. H1b were meant to be temporary visa to fill shortage but they are being abused by companies to get permanent workers
operation paperclip, the "importing" of german scientists after WW2, was **nowhere near** the scale of what's happening now. it was a total of 1-2000 scientists.
@@beastmaster6943 By firing that flooded labor supply. Elon Musk's point is if USA doesn't take in that foreign workforce some other country will take advantage of it to get ahead in terms of techrace which includes future tech for weapons and communication.
Domestic students in the United States have tax pressure and debt pressure. Immigrants don't actually have to face this. This results in Native Americans risking living on the streets unless they find well-paying jobs. Your tax debt loan stress is pathological.
My problem is that this "shortage" is taking place while companies conduct mass layoffs and refuse to hire anyone. There are thousands of experienced, skilled workers looking for a job and equally many (if not more) college grads from STEM programs looking for work. You can't claim that this country has a shortage while this is going on. The only reasonable explanation is that these foreign import workers will work for less money and are more easily exploited as they'll be deported if they quit or are fired.
@@RSAnimism Do you not understand? These H1B workers are only allowed to remain as long as they have an employer that is willing to vouch for them. If they get laid off their status is at risk and if they don't find another employer willing to hire an H1B (not all are) they have to leave the country. Which makes an incentive for them to NEVER rock the boat, speak up or cause problems for their employer.
Brother it’s way worse than thousands of them. According to the census bureau as of 2024, 62% of American STEM graduates are either employed outside of STEM fields, or they’re unemployed. Mind boggling. We have all the talent in the world and they just aren’t getting hired… probably because they demand actual living wages and they’re only willing to work 70hr weeks instead of 90hr weeks lmao.
Just ask an American programmer what he thinks of the code quality coming out of these Indian teams. There's so many Indian doctors and engineers because there's so many Indians, not because their culture fosters excellence.
A big factor is religion, how people function in the world based on how they relate to and perceive the Creator / Source / God. To most Hindus and others spiritually embodied, God is all separate form. See how the quality of outcome would be different based on one who finds joy in serving God and themself in all action vs. the atheist who completely believes all is separate, fearfully doing to survive, win, get, against others?
@@ephemispriest8069I got you fam. Say out of a country's population, 1% of them become doctors. Well 1% of a billion is bigger than 1% of 300 million therefore there will be more workers in any field chosen field coming from a country with a larger population. India's population is at least a billion America's is at least 300 million. There you go, THE MATH.
The H1B visas are not being used to get "top talent" you can search the jobs they're used for on a government database. They're used for entry-level jobs, secretaries, janitors, and line cooks. All making less than 80k.
Alright then how can you join the US? Asking as a german who has many relatives in the US, yet I can't migrate there because Visas are near impossible to get. So first you want no illegal migration but also give no option for legal migration? Go in an empty land, claim ownership and then shut the door?
This is the case in every slightly richer country. When companies have a choice between a cheap foreign employee and you, they will choose the cheap option. Just like in a store as a customer, having a choice between two similar products, you will choose the cheaper one, at this point you are promoting someone that is 99% not from your country.
Get Americans to do the job. Like Musk said America is wildly undermanned because we are a country full of baristas planning to live off a Starbucks paycheck.
"We aren't facing a shortage of highly skilled engineers in the US, we are facing a shortage of highly skilled engineers that will work for dirt-cheap and don't have the notion of work-life balance." - Some dude that left a comment on the internet. If the intention is to truly import the best of the best talent, then that's good, but it seems likely they'd just want to import average Joes. If they're here on a visa, you could exploit them by dropping their pay, etc. They'd be more likely to tolerate abuse as they'd have to immigrate back to their home country otherwise.
All I know is, my GE washing machine can't wash cloths, Windows 11 is a hot mess, and every customer service operator sounds like the scammer who robbed my grandma.
People are against hiring overseas because it's a way to keep wages down, while corporations keep making more and more money. A lot of Americans can't buy their own houses, while H1B1 workers live in overcrowded houses. I'm ok with hiring top talent, but their culture should also be easily integrated with ours, Hire from Japan, Europe, Canada and other places.
Funny how I've built 100s of homes in Toronto. I've even Foreman'd. Read the engineering prints and told the boys where the rebar/steel goes. Like it's insane man... so many homes. And here I am living with parents right now. On welfare. Dude, I didnt do any hard drugs or anything. Just a few beers now and then after work. Really gonna punish a homie for just surviving? Like these elites dont get it. We're struggling out here.
@@Javaris_Jamar As long as it meets 2 criteria, Merit based proficiency and they willing to integrate into the society. Willing to leave their own culture behind.
It's well known in immigration law that the Indian community runs a racquet on USA H1-B visas to the point where they consistently secure 70% of visas taking opportunities from Americans and other countries.
It happens in our country too, from the transport industry to the tech industry. Abusing work visas to get more of them over, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is some racket on their side of the border profiting from selling these visa opportunities to people. It's annoying because a lot of the Indian people I deal with are lovely people, but some of them are abusing our systems.
We are also more in number applying as H1B is for highly specialized individuals. The reason people from other countries get less is because there are less applicants.
@@Gaanjalivesmatter False. There are a lot of indian registrations, but the companies sponsor and vet individuals before the individuals application phase. So at this phase the pool is selective and supposed to be full of applicants from all countries including American natives. I work in employment immigration, you cannot fool me.
In 2017 we opened a position for entry level mech. Engineer. We must’ve gotten almost 200 applications, and probably 60% came from India, 30% from China, and 10% from America. And our office was in a small town in California; 300+ miles away from a major city like LA. On the whole, it seems this hiring of foreign workers over American options is positive in two aspects: lower wages for the employer and an immense opportunity for the employee. But these don’t appear to be out-weighed by the negatives: an American loses out on a job, as someone else mentioned it’s common for these immigrants to live with a lot of guys to split rent (allowing upward pressures on rent to continue), nepotism hiring of same race individuals moving forward, and brain drain on countries (like India) that desperately needs improvements in their major cities. I know Brain Drain is happening because I dated an Indian in college. Her letter of interest included how she wanted to go to an American university so she could then return to India to help improve it; almost 15 years later and she’s still living in the US. Can’t say I blame her; I visited India twice and I can safely say I’d rather be homeless in America than rich in any major city in India.
The framing is entirely wrong. A nation is not an international shopping mall or a job board for the world. It is a home for a people. We don't just bring in foreign races to replace the founding stock of the home because its theoretically better for business, there are things that are more important than business. Your people are the most precious thing you have. The billionaires want you to be an isolated atomized individual without connection to your heritage, culture, and with no collective future. They want cheap labour, from an obedient serf class, and they are willing to take your home from you and your people in order to achieve that. It's a war on the stock that created and built the nation, it's as simple as that.
The obedient worker must also pay mind to their own business as well. I work 9-5 at a Casino BUT I pay myself first (mind my own business). You will never hear me say “poor me”.
I am a computer engineer. There are a lot of very smart engineers in America already. The problem is not the engineers, its companies lacking any interest or vision. Almost every company I've ever seen doesn't want to invest money or time in developing something new. That's because 2 decades ago they realized that it was more profitable to let thousands of small companies try and fail and then buy up the successful companies IP cheap (through a lot of tactics). Engineers have been pushed into either taking massive risk by working for a small unstable company OR doing mindless grunt work for a big company. The risk of the small unstable company might pay off in the end, but for most it will not. The big companies have poor work-life balance in many cases where everyone I know and work with can't even take a vacation without someone calling, texting, sending teams/slack messages, instant messaging, and 10 different other forms of communication EVERY SINGLE DAY because someone has some BS emergency usually because HR hires tech illiterate dumb people everywhere.
Lol. I bounce between small companies that are fun to work for and large companies that can actually afforded to pay me well but the work is constrained and mindless.
Majority of Americans can't keep a job and have little to no morals. You guys abuse what you can within the bounds of the law. 1. Quitting and constantly looking for a job with higher pay - you keep jobs for 1-2 years max 2. You work your 8 hours and done. No proactivity, no trying to go the distance. You take as many days off as you possibly can. Taking sick leaves to play games. This is unheard of in asian culture 3. Busy talking and causing drama instead of doing actual work. Using phones excessively at work. Complaining there's a lot of work, meanwhile some other guy 3 meters from you is doing 2x as much
@@IAMFRSYep, people hating on Indians tho is wrong, good for them. This has been happening in the US since its existence, why do you think all big corps factories are all in China and India? Welcome to unregulated capitalism!
First foreigners then ai. A diverse group with different cultures can be manipulated to hate each other instead of the elites who created the situation
Any major corporation who outsources their IT, or frankly any other department, should be in a higher tax bracket. Then that money should be used to support high schools, trade schools and community colleges for developing high skilled IT engineering jobs for Americans. Make the companies themselves fund their future American workforce.
"We can't find enough qualified American engineers so we need to import the the best from the world" Translation: "These American engineers are top tier and qualified, but too expensive. We want to import cheap subpar engineers"
Actually, probably not. US market is overriden with Bootcamp Devs. When it comes to really skilled people, most of them are already hired. I must admit though, that on the new grad end of spectrum, situation is curently more difficult.
you one week ago: part shaved blue hair DEI hires devs ruin gaming companies, quality is lowest it has ever been, they are terrible engineers you today: These American engineers are top tier and qualified
Racial nepotism is so big in Canada is nuts, especially among indian immigrants. Not Canada born Indian, just new immigrants. A lot of Canadians, including me haven't been able to get a job in our respective fields. Recently one of my friend told me that his shop hired a indian immigrant who had been in the country for less than 3 months, has 0 welding skills or experience, constantly fucks up welds and my friend gets blamed for it. And guess what! I APPLIED TO THAT SHOP AND REAPPLIED AGES AGO AND I HAVE WELDING EXPERIENCE. It's so nuts, many jobs are posted on job bank (a government runned website dedicated for job hunting, not sure if thats fully correct or not) but you never hear from them, why? Because its a cover up. This isnt conspiratorial or anything, its been confirmed, they post jobs on the site, never respond to anything, delete your application, go to the Canadian government and say "hey we can't find any workers we need to bring immigrant workers here." You know how fucking stupid that loophole is?! I've also had a employer who was Indian told me they wouldn't hire me based off the fact I'm Taiwanese. They thought I was Chinese (ofc you can argue abt it) and i had to tell them my family background. Then they said i could be lying so they weren't going to go forward. Beyond fucking frustrated. I was born here. I was raised here. It isn't racist to say that Canadians SHOULD be prioritized for Canadian jobs.
Thats the thing a lot of, but certainly not all, white Canadians and Americans are starting to realize. We built a society and culture where we welcome everyone to set an example to the rest of the world. We were taken advantage of, because the rest of the world only cares for themselves. We set ourselves up to be laughed at for seeing merit above ethnic or culturally homogeneous practices. Its that frank Herbert quote about when you're in power you show me mercy because that is your way, when I'm in power I oppress you because that is my way. Choose your neighbors wisely!
I feel so bad for Canadian citizens being priced out of where they currently work and live in major cities. In a way I think Vivek is right in that the western countries failed themselves with the education systems and culture.
It's even down to minimum wage jobs now...I've worked at 4 different restaurants in the past 7 years and 90% of the staff is indian all working 11 hour shifts for minimum wage 6 days a week...LIKE HOW TF ARE CANADIANS SUPPOSED TO COMPETE WITH THAT.
I work in IT field and let me tell India has a reputation for being the absolute worst when it comes to ANYTHING tech related. Most companies already outsource their support to companies in India and it is a nightmare trying to troubleshoot anything with their “support” the people you talk to have NO IDEA how the product works and you can tell they are ready off Manuel or cheat sheets. My current place of employment we outsource our website management/development to company in India and we have had numerous issues with the website and getting them to upgrade or fix vulnerabilities has been a constant issue. Nonestop excuses as to why they have to delay a fix or patch
Elon and Vivek are billionaires, so are a lot of other Tech CEOs. To billionaires countries are economic zones and the WORLD is their home. They could literally live anywhere they want to. The don't have the kind of attachment to this country that you have and would sell out 90% of all Americans if it meant they could make an extra 10 billion dollars. Make no mistake. Trump is one of those billionaires, and he filled his entire cabinet with billionaires. They do not care about you, me, or anyone else.
I’ve seen the H1B Indians in my apartment complex in Silicon Valley. They have 4 H1b dudes in one house with just a table and nothing else, all empty. So they each make like 1/3rd I do, but live in a way that I can’t because I have a family here and not in a foreign country that costs 1/15th the cost. Silly me
Saw the same thing in Redmond from 98 till 2010. I got laid off with a ton of white guys like me but not just Americans. Euros from Ireland, Moldova, Slovenia all dumped after that Indian ceo started. Even on Windows and Office.
@@2vizion2I work in residential construction. New construction is complete trash done as cheaply and as quickly as possible. If anyone is reading this looking to buy a home, NEVER buy a D.R. Horton built home.
The funniest thing is that, for me as a European, I can’t get a visa, or at least not easily. I have almost 10 years of IT experience and a university degree, yet I would still struggle to legally enter the US.
@@DavidBamber-m8j Great point. Americans and especially Europeans all believe in living well, living comfortably, and living peacefully. They also believe in having legal protections from predatory systems, practices, and corporations. People from Third World countries can’t say the same. Those people are going to try to find a way out no matter what. They’ll work longer hours, for less pay, and shittier treatment. Why WOULDN’T companies choose to higher them instead of those who think the deserve a high quality of life?
How interesting not more people engaged with this comment. See, even doing it legally is very hard! Why don’t we address better processing for legality.
Elon honestly wants to gaslight people into thinking that jobs going to Americans, in America, is somehow a deplorable opinion. Elon and his sort just want cheap labor.
he is a business owner. its a for profit entity. i mean. what do you think is going to happen? why not bring in some bloke from the world food bank or imf or world bank where money is aplenty and they just throw it about. then maybe the fella will squander funds and everyone gets a payday for about a month before the economy collapses.
"It's hard to get americans to fill jobs"... anyone who has watched 5 minutes of either dirty jobs or deadliest catch would never make this statement. What it is hard for employers to do is to get americans to fill jobs for wages that no one can live on.
Also it's almost worthless to even attempt to apply online because online job listings are filled with fake job openings. If you want a job you gotta go to a place to see if it actually is hiring then you either talk to someone or then go apply online. Which you can't just go to a lot of businesses to see if they have job listing up because they aren't that kind of business where you walk in the front door. It sucks to be looking for a job in a field where your only hope is applying online and praying it's a real job listing.
Then how can immigrants live with that income? How can they manage? Americans overspend way too much, they order food instead of cooking, most don't use public transport most go by cars, etc. Clearly it can be done but that is not the living standards you are willing to accept.
H1b's have to get paid industy standard. The average salary for an tech position for an H1b is 90k-100k. This is just another version of "The Mexicans are taking all our jobs."
@@snuffeldjuretit's competitive if the work is the same quality but one is cheaper. The fluent English speaker is likely going to be better. But Musk doesn't care about quality, only profits. Look at the QC of a Tesla for instance
Instead of benching the team, fire the coaches. Instead of hiring players, hire the best coaches. I learned 100x more on the job than I ever did getting my physics degree.
I worked at the immigration dept. for a tech company. Even though they are legally required to post tech jobs where Americans can apply, they do the minimum and post in obscure places so that they can get their foreign visa workers/indentured slaves.
Or could it be that both the companies and the foreigners mutually benefit? The company gets a kick back for hiring h1b. They get to send money back home rent free aside from taxe....who am I kidding I bet they are exempt from taxes.... aside from the fee at Walmart/western union. We get shit on with higher consumer costs and lower quality of life.
Labor costs in the United States are too high to compete with other countries. Secondly, American citizens have to bear the pressure of taxes and debt. As a result, American citizens have to choose high-paying jobs to prevent themselves from living on the streets. This is an American institutional problem.
I was an international student. I worked in indian company before. They hoard H1B for their own people first bro, worked for them for 2 years, I didn't get selected once. and no, I didn't get unlucky, at that company (big company), all indian 100% all got H1B.
lmao not even latinos are that discriminatory and you are part of the team(you are the tourist guy), you only get a racially charged nickname and thats it, unless you are from Venezuela.
Exactly, I'm ok with hiring top talent, but their culture should also be easily integrated with ours, Hire from Japan, Europe, Canada and other places. If India was so smart as people claim, nobody would want to leave from there.
As someone who worked in the US on h1-b visa as a software developer. Yes this is absolutely true, not only you get paid less than native Americans but you also need to work more. You are basically held hostage by your employer. And you need to suck it up for 6 years before you can apply for a GC. When I found this out I was back in Europe in 6 months and never looked back. And honestly I am glad I did this.
thats the reason most H1B visas are given to people from developing countries. The salary is shitty for you because you are from Europe. Meanwhile for an Indian, something as low as 22 an hour, is 10x the salary they would have made in their country.
Yep this is just a method to hire underpaid and overworked labor to save money. It has very little to do with getting the amazing and talented people from around the world. I disagree with it but I also agree completely that we should be getting the highly skilled and employing them at the same rates and we should be investing into our own education more too. We should also be punishing companies that are using this as a way to save money.
What scares me is that if the Americans do something stupid, they have countries behind them who are waiting in lines to repeat the same measures and apply them in their governance. Most of them will not stop and think if they are on the right path.
The job market is already so bad for entry lvl positions, this is going to make it so much worse. I graduated from a big 10 college with a stem degree in August, interned at a top defense contractor, and can not find a job. Applied to hundreds of positions. This is going to make it impossible for entry lvl college grads to enter the workforce for which they were trained for. Expanding immigration with H1b would destroy the native population. This whole situation is ridiculous. AMERICA FIRST
Dont lose hope. It took me like 350 or 360 job apps to get my first engineering job with a great GPA, masters, and multiple years of internship. Finally got the interview and ended up contracting at NASA. The job will come - hang in there and keep going. Its tough and hopeless but you will get that opportunity.
Labor costs in the United States are too high to compete with other countries. Secondly, American citizens have to bear the pressure of taxes and debt. As a result, American citizens have to choose high-paying jobs to prevent themselves from living on the streets. This is an American institutional problem.
Everyone starts at entry level. I know of a lot of entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley who also started out as immigrants in entry level jobs, but now have startups. What’s your point here?
What a smooth brained take. who do you think invented optic fiber? Quite a few other luxuries you enjoy and take for granted also come from immigrant workers/developers.
@Caonabo the H1B pay database is available to the public. They are bringing H1B dog groomers, pickleball trainers, cooks, truckers, plumbers, accountants etc etc. Its not for top talent. The O1 visa is for top talent, H1B is for entry level stuff lol
A big part of this debate is the timing of it. 7% interest rates. Unaffordable home ownership, layoffs in every sector, but particularly in tech, and the worst job market in history. AI rejecting your application before anyone even sees it…I think all of these things make people really sensitive to the threat, or perceived threat of their wages being undercut and of favoritism in hiring practices. The fact Elon decided to have this discussion on Christmas of all days, when everyone is sitting at home on their phones just compounds the powder keg
Again, this is about highly skillet engineers, top 0.1% talent. Doesn't concern average Joe. As for housing, the deportation of millions will help with that. But deregulation will help even more, because it will allow the supply to skyrocket. The only reason why homes are expensive is that there's a shortage, and the main reason for that is overregulation. Not the only reason, but the main one.
@@andrasbiro3007 1) Isn’t the O1 visa more applicable for that type of candidate? Why not expand that visa as opposed to H1B1, which is far easier for employers to abuse 2) Even if every H1 candidate was top 1%, they still can be exploited in ways that an American couldn’t. If the H1B1 is to be expanded, the pay they receive should be at parity with American wages. It helps prevents exploitation for the foreign worker, which I would think they’d appreciate, and it prevents Americans from being undercut. But Elon and Vivek don’t want to pay them equally lol.
Also, you’re absolutely right about the housing shortage. I mentioned that because these type of sentiments arise from a variety of external factors that build up overtime until a straw breaks the camels back. I agree with your points there 100%, But I said what I said because you’ve got take a holistic view to get the full picture around broad sentiments like this, and our shitty job/housing situation, combined with sticky inflation is what I think is fueling most of this anxiety. When money goes less than it did before, sentiments like this boil over.
Why are supporters acting like a "degree" from Vindaloo University diploma mill is equivalent to a STEM degree from an American university? If Musk cared about "hiring the best", he'd hire some of these Americans that have to do work unrelated to their degrees, because that's all that's available to them in the current market and hiring culture.
*As someone who works at Intel and has seen many many many Indian chemical engineers at work, I can honestly say these guys are not the cream of the crop! They are the cheapest dollar per work unit, period!*
same in CS. You have dudes from africa who went to top private schools at home who can barely pull up and do frontend properly... While some European from a mid level highschool path does all the backend and architecture design... I studied in an international course. you recognize patterns quickly sadly... sure if you compare these people to the nationwide average they might pass but tbf. when i did math i was below average in my highschool class. i scored top 14% on the competences test during my first year at the top uni in my country and the test was exclusively for other students in the faculty of sciences. Wouldn't make me a good mathematician but at that point for my age group i was in a very high percentile of knowledge in math considering i was top 14% of science students in the top uni in my country. Being the dumbest person in a smart class might make you look smart but nobody will want to work with you lol. I reckon when they talk about these statistics its the same. sure they pass difficult classes since all science based classes tend to be difficult but it wont make someone a good engineer. for that you need to actually exceed the field not just participate. and an uncomfortable truth is that hard work is overvalued and certain skills and talents people are simply born with. My uncle for example never really studied much and graduated cum laude in classical sciences, he'd read a book once and understand it. climbed the corporate ladder and retired at 50. The classical western system used to be to just try and follow your strengths but we try so hard to shoehorn people into STEM. I Personally was way more suited for social sciences. the few classes i took in the field were very easy for me to do well in. but i never felt like it would have been a viable career path.
@@EarthScienceEnjoyer I think it is also generational and institutional knowledge. America has been doing world leading work in technology and STEM for many decades. In some cases America literally invented these fields. So there is deep generational and institutional knowledge in these fields that gets passed on both in schools and at work. New software developers starting out 30 years ago in America went to work with people who had already been doing software for years and had experience. 30 years ago India had no meaningful experience in software development at all. So who taught their university classes? Must have been people who had a fleeting knowledge of the subject. One of my math professor in college was a literal rocket scientist who used to work for NASA. My business professor retired as a manager from a large corporation where he managed hundreds of people. One of my software engineering professors had worked as a consultant in the field for 20 years before teaching. Etc. Maybe India has some knowledgeable managers, but they don't have an equivalent of the NASA or CS consulting guy to be teachers over there.
Ramaswamy had a point about promoting less intelligent people over the more intelligent in American society, but at the same time a society that brings in people from other countries who will work cheaper than the society's OWN CITIZENS to compete for jobs with the intelligent people in our society creates issues as well. Why would American youths want to go to college and work harder to major in STEMs if our society is willing to bring in other countries' citizens to work the jobs our citizens are trying to become educated to work for cheaper? Maybe Ramaswamy and Musk don't care about the average American as much as people thought? 🤔
They absolutely do care about average Americans, that doesn’t mean they’re perfect. Elon has lots of takes I agree with, and lots I don’t. This is among them. Another take of his I disagree with is his position of fertility rates and “under population.” I completely disagree with him there, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have good intentions or that he hasn’t done a lot of good for America already. Diversity of opinion isn’t a bad thing.
Excellent point about motivating American youths. That's what especially Gen Z sees right now. They live on the internet, and on it, there's mountains of stories of highly skilled people with years of experience, who fell victim to a mass layoff (often due to offshoring) and now can't find a job. Yes, there's tons of unfilled job openings... for "entry level" positions with entry-level pay and 8 years job experience + 20 years of experience in a 3 year old programming language. Everywhere, there's threats of AI already outperforming them in the fields that promised job security when they started studying. Whatever statistic about a supposed skill gap and labor shortage you have, it's irrelevant. Gen Z's and Gen Alpha's PERCEPTION is the only thing that will ever be relevant to their life decisions, and those statistics don't conform to the reality they see every day.
@@charlesbrown4483 If they care, how does blocking young Americans who finish college (up to having 2 years of previous experience) from finding entry-level and junior jobs help them? It literally repeats the cycle and becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
@JosephSullivan1979 seems like there just needs to be a balance then. Clearly immigration has gone too far, but that doesn't invalidate Vivek's point about filtering for the best immigrants..
We’ve had 420k layoffs in tech in the last three years. The number of tech job openings increased only 30k/yr for the last two years to 218k in 2024. There’s plenty of out of work qualified professionals in tech now more than at any other time in history. This doesn’t even include the new graduates or career switchers who are struggling to just get their resumes seen by a human.
Vivek is 1000% right about the culture in the US. If you’re a poor kid going to a public school you’re tortured for trying to succeed academically and being enthusiastic about learning. It’s also, however, accurate that the other part of the equation is labor overseas is cheaper for the same skill sets across the board. Talented Engineers in the US cost a lot more and aren’t going to take short term contract work. Temporary visas are bad, bringing talented immigrants into the country is a good idea, but for these big companies they know they will pay a lot less for these people (at least in the short term, and when they demand more like other US engineers they get replaced). To that end: how about we give tax incentives to businesses hiring full time US STEM employees over issuing visas, and paying them what they are worth instead of looking for more ways to exploit overseas cheap labor for profit? Design in the US, build in the US if you want - but also understand that in a global market there are going to also be similarly skilled people willing to do the same things and produce the same products for less, so there’s still a balancing act to be had.
Legal immigration was designed to drive down middle class wages the same way illegal immigration was designed to drive down wages of lower class. Yes, the rare H1B earning 250k is middle class when billionaires exist, FYI. The point of a system is what it does.
@@kauetadaieski3131 Unironically yes, one of the biggest scams ever pulled by the corpo-govt cooperative. An instant 100% increase in labor supply destroyed worker's wages.
If he actually wants the top 0.1% of engineers, they should apply for an O-1 visa. We shouldn't be using H-1B's to get top talent; it doesn't work that way.
Illegal immigration and the H1-B visa system both have a single purpose: creating an indentured servant class of workers to undercut wages of middle and lower class Americans for the enrichment of the wealthy. That the system occasionally brings over exceptionally talented individuals is side effect, not the main purpose.
you have never been around Indian engineers. They dont come close to Americans. its just that these companies think they can cut cost. It will blow up in their faces in the end anyways as the technical debt adds up to critical levels.
@@snuffeldjuretI have been around them more than Elon, and most others. Indian engineers are not as skilled as Americans, and it isn’t usually a matter of intelligence but motivation and culture. The American culture of innovation and pushing boundaries is why we are as technologically advanced as we are. American Engineers tend to be engineers because it’s what they wanted to do, it’s what interests them, and it’s what they enjoy. Indian engineers tend to be engineers because they didn’t want to be failures in the eyes of their culture/people. This doesn’t speak for all Indians in tech. There are plenty of top performers who are passionate, driven, and extremely intelligent. But you will always see that they are those things because they love what they do.
@@snuffeldjuret Then he is a idiot. But then, Elon still have his Tesla car company in China, where they steal all his tech. He have not been very impressive.
They come close enough for the amount they are paid. If the company has to deal with a couple quality control issues in production but saves 80% on engineer pay, then at the end of the day nothing is wrong business wise. If it's going to blow up in their faces, then it will do that and they will be forced to hire better or close the business. Since that isn't happening that means they are willing to deal with a team that they pay 80% less for marginally less quality at worst and the same or better quality at best.
most h1b indian engineers are paid 20% less than american engineers and dont even get other benefits from the company or government. if it were me, i wouldnt give the same 100% as an american native because im not treated the same/
It's weird, it's almost like if our entire experience with a people is either inept technical support or them scamming our grandparents we develop a distrust and hatred for them.
Comment sections a big yikes. Pattern recognition is real sure, but we are also meant to challenge our assumptions- thats literally how we learn. The only way anyone's a hivemind- is if you admit your part of one yourself.
The H-1B visa is one of the most abused visas in the world. There is no shortage of engineers the tech industry just wants the cheap labor with employees of no recourse. Vivek is incorrect, its not the culture that's not producing the best engineers, its the tech industry wanting the cheap labor. Its not racism against indians most of the H-1B are allocated to most of the outsourcing firms in india: Infosys, tata consultancy, and Cognizant. Look up the disney IT outsroucing incident.
I feel like if Trump takes a position against the H1B he’s really going to alienate the majority of people that voted for his immigration policy. Legal migrants followed the rules, worked for their qualification and are extremely vulnerable during mass layoffs. They don’t deserve to be accused of playing the system just because they followed the rules and regulations to move to the USA.
Exactly. Know what doesn't encourage young kids in school to take up engineering degrees and to try hard? Hearing the tech market is overly saturated with foreigners and impossible to get into. That literally makes people change their education goals entirely.
Close to Orlando and I remember when the Disney people got laid off and said they brought in H1B's and made them train them before they were let go. They sued but lost because it was "legal" immigration.
isn't a large group of people feeling entitled to more pay thaen a similar group of people considered a cultural thing? Like if the children of wealthy people refuse to work for under $50 an hour because where they come from that is considered slavery, is that not just their rich entitled culture? When black people blame every bad decision they make as excusable because of systemic racism, even if they can't point to a specific issue in their life, is that not a cultural issue? Culture is more than just what holiday's we celebrate, it's how we structure our values. What we will accept and what we won't.
@Johngc61 Vivek is obviously correct. If he wasnt, why would the Establishment target him like this with this massive effort? He is completely right about the culture that promotes Football and sports over being highly intelligent, a doctor, a scientist, an engineer or a philosopher etc. The culture promotes screwing around instead of getting things done.
I cannot help but think about the 'Nobody wants to work' nonsense we've been hearing over the last few years by corpos. I am in the tech sector and the layoffs has been brutal the last 2 years, but still you see people from overseas coming in in droves. The truth is that corpos want to pay those who are willing to work highly skilled jobs for minimal-wage rates. THAT is what everyone is getting fed up about. You import the 3rd world, you become them.
Well the method to make this stop/fair is simply by forcing the companys to behave by certain Standard regarding pay and treatment of employees, in that case it wouldn make much sense to import since it would just be more expensive workforce, if you just keep people out you might keep people out that are needed in some areas or are talents, so instead you should even the playing field, so that the corpos cant do this, rather than directly block people who want to work here. The corpos put that narrative out because its a truth, just one that isnt complete, as in 'Nobody wants to work, because our conditions are so trash'
Yeah, I'm not a fan of that perspective. To think a country has 300 million people and no one wants to work? They do, they just need incentive. Everyone wants to be a part of society, that's what makes people happy and healthy.
mandate a % quota per corporate entity. if they want an indian company, go incorporate in india and see how well they do in that market away from the benefits of grants and social aspects of the us market.
It is patently RIDICULOUS to claim "Americans don't want to be engineers." Many of us do not have the means; and you're suggesting out of 330 MILLION people that no one wants to be an engineer. That's idiotic.
At least 17.5 million Americans have a STEM based bachelor degree. Can’t say what percentage of those are engineers let alone the sub categories. So I wouldn’t say that line of work is encouraged in America.
@@coggnus965666+% of stem bachelor degree holders work outside of stem or are unemployed. The problem isn't interest in the field. It's being replaced by cheap labor.
more skilled than the people willing to work for the same wage that is literally what you call more skilled otherwise only one person in the entire world can be more skilled
@@snuffeldjuret No, they institute a "fake it till you make it" policy. They get fake credentials in India and then apply to every job until one bites.
Don't let CNN twist this. I'd rather have Immigrants come here LEGALLY, and SUPPORT America, and have TALENT to build this country. If there were a surplus of talent currently in America, then Silicon Valley wouldn't have a shortage of workers. Better to have workers work here in America, than have jobs shipped overseas.
2:39 Operation Paperclip involved 1,600 people. O-1 visas cost ten times that. H-1B visas cost 100 times more. Each year!!! Asmon, no one would be concerned if there were just 1,600 experts available each year.
Verner Von Braun refused to help NASA without the bringing over of his boss, Dornburger, and there original team from Germany. About 70,000 other "Paperclip people" ended up being involved. Filling roles not just in NASA but in the CIA and on the ground operations around the world. Joseph P Farrell and Daniel List have covered this extensively. They refer to Linda Hunt and Peter Dale Scott as authorities as well.
@snuffeldjuret for sure. Thats why they are doing it. Hes much smarter then me but i do understand supply and demand. And if there was a shortage youd think a proven engineer with a deep portfolio wouldnt struggle to get hired after the company they were at closed. Source: me company closed up, took 6 moths just to get an interview and 9 months to get a job. A lot of these jobs you see posted are there just to get the H1B. They arent jobs that you can actually get
@@snuffeldjuret Smart for doing exactly as OP ssaid and offshoring all tech jobs to China decades ago resulting in China acquiring US technology at an unbelievable rate and now being their biggest competitor? Really good for the US!!!!!!! Wow!!!
exactly i dont know why people are shocked by this. I agree with elon and vivek on alot of stuff but i also recognize there american business owners FIRST.😂
@@Neonagifunny you say that, I have read anecdotes where the lying and cheating through the job application process was so bad, that the Indian guy who did the interview was different from the Indian guy who showed up to do the job and everyone pretended like it was all fine lol.
It will get 100x worse for Americans. Companies want money. Employees cost money. Employees are an expense to companies. Americans are expensive. Hire overseas. Change American law to make it really really easy to hire foreigners. Just increase the number of visas by x100. Companies fire most Americans. Replace with all foreigners. This is a stop-gap until AI can replace humans in general. The government is no longer for the people. We live in an oligarchy. The government is for the mega-corporations.
I'm a Software Engineer Grad. There is basically no way to get a tech job if you have no experience or relatives in tech. I know only 1 person who got the job right out of college. Companies don't want New Grads - they want experienced engineers (and there are a lot after the layoffs and with H1B). There is basically 0 way for me to get enterprise experience, only small projects for mom-and-pops businesses. Attracting the top engineers from all over the world is surely beneficial for the businesses, but is 100% cripples the local market. The only solution I see is forcing companies to balance H1B jobs with entry (or just American) engineers. Because companies like Google don't even look for people with Bachelor or Masters. You need a PhD to get the entry position or 5+ YoE in enterprise environment.
This is how it works in general, not only in USA. They don't want to spend money training someone new when they can get a experienced engineer. Also you need more then a Bachelor to work nowadays.
That's not true at all. Literally everyone finds a job at very respectable companies right after college and many of them before they even graduate. I know at least 20 people that have done the former and 6 the latter
@@XxXDeadlykingdxXxXnot true. I busted my ass to land a f500 engineering role. Pretty much everyone else in my graduating class got left in the dust. Some of them went back to the local milk factory literally. It is atrocious
Elon are saying they are focusing on american and are running out of their 'top talent' to hire. Some argue to increase education for america instead hiring oversea worker. These guys are saying they're not focusing on american at aljust to advance their ajenda that immigrant are keeping wages low.
It is not bad. The thing is that importing workers should benefit American citizens more in the long term. Currently the benefits are better than the drawbacks but the number 1 reason that this is not appreciated by the average American is because wealth distribution is pretty shit in America.
Rare asmongold L. We have talent here. It has NOTHING to do with a lack of talent and EVERYTHING to do with paying them less than they would an American.
Rare? Asmon rarely has a solid W outside of dunking on AAA game devs. His moral philosophy and political logic are often incongruent with something he said 2 minutes before or 5 minutes later. He is honest enough to sometimes say he doesn’t know shit and not to listen to him though and that’s fine by me. I don’t mind hearing people talk shit completely out of their element.
Generally I agree with you that we have talent here and could compete. But Indian and I know China for sure give their whole lives to education from a much younger age and with much more intensity then most Americans and its pretty much their only life focus until they get a job. So much so that they often try to kill themselves if they get bad grades thinking they're not good enough and failed their families. It creates such a competitive environment that there isn't room for anything else. America values education but also values social connections and life enjoyment activities which take away from study time and allow these other countries, who have different priorities to get ahead of us. Because of this we often don't reach the educational heights they do on average. Doesn't mean we can't but we'd have to get rid of all enjoyment of life and just do school work.
The customer ends up paying that cost anyway. You're just changing where that money goes lol. For the same reason we benefit from buying goods from China. You can pay $3 for a toy made in China or $10 for the same toy made here in the US.
Rare W Asmon take, employers DO take advantage of this situation 100%. It is the same here in South Korea, many people on E-7 visas (professional employment) are getting screwed constantly. They get less pay (compared to locals), more work, no career advancement, etc. On the other hand, local employees get screwed over because they will constantly lose these positions to foreign talent who are willing to do the same job for less pay. The best possible solution is to enforce companies to give minimum salary based on the market rate, provide foreign employees with the same rights as local employees, and so on but we know it's never going to happen.
Effing hilarious citing Operation Paper Clip...that was 1600 people in TOTAL and those were europeans who absolutely fit into our culture pretty well. No it isn't good for our country to bring in randos from other countries. That has been proven out over 20 years now.
why would a european want to go to America right now? No healthcare, shitty transportation, and more expensive, and if they work through H1B visa, they might literally make less than in their own countries.
yes so true. Im from western europe. In group projects its always been easiest to work with other Europeans, or Americans. Funny enough a minority american will also be much easier to work with than certain other non first world places. Simply since the overlap in shared culture is still fairly big, especially when it comes to taking responsibility for stuff and proper communication. Yes subcultures exist but in a fully international setting where everyone is different you very quickly learn who you can actually properly communicate and work with to get a project done.
Hmm... nazis, or people who shit in the street and don't respect sexual boundaries? Decisions, decisions... gee it's a wonder we don't have flying cars amirite?
it's funny that you say that, because at certain times people were saying germans can't be trusted, there were issues with italians, irish, east europeans, pretty much anyone who wasn't of british decent
@@jeycalc6877 who said the irish couldn't be trusted in the 40's lmao? That has nothing to do with intelligence or worth of the indian h1 immigrants. There's already EB1 visas for smart foreigners.
@@Hispanocelwe know the people, already speak the language, even if poorly. Have an understanding of the way the cultural notes and moral operate. Already have citizenship. Will pay taxes both income and property. I'd say we are already far better, and more appropriately suited to do the work. *norms* but whatever.
@@adamwright2596 ya I understand but you’re basically doing a white washed version of DEI and affirmative action but for white Americans, it makes you look bad, whites need to go back to college and radically change many things that’s harming
I heard a lot of Philippine Nurses saying they felt like slaves to the hospitals because the agencies would get a cut of their salaries while their salaries are around 25-30/hr. That is why salaries are so low. A nurse salary is the same now as it was 20 years ago. How is that possible? Having cheap labor.
In IT there isn't 1 agency that takes a cut, there are usually TWO AGENCIES that take a cut of H1B pay. There are agencies that specialize in hiring H1B workers and all of them work directly for these companies. But these companies don't find them work, they delegate that to a more typical contracting agency that actually connects the employers with the H1B workers. Then both agencies take a sizable cut of the pay. Its a racket and everyone gets screwed but the companies.
@@johnnycab8986 Not in Florida nor most states. I don't know where you get this info from. Nurses make on average $50,000-$70,000. Nothing is higher than $35/hr for a nurse in my neck of the woods unless they are involved with critical care.
I’m honestly very sick and tired of the projection people have with our culture being too lazy, we just went through 15 years of woke ideologies that imposed DEI on us, and even then the hiring departments bent over backwards to get their token diverse hire and neglected the talent that already existed from the average American. We are at where we are is because so many of us have been sidelined! It was horrible when I first started to look for a job after high school, the recession happened a few years prior but no one was willing to hire a college kid who did have the experience for a freaking minimum wage job! I was competing with 30 year old and foreigners! And college is a POS as it wasted time and money to not give an actual job to the field of major. A good example of how harmful the hiring industry has been us to look at how Disney operated in the last decade, let’s start with the animation department. With Iger’s leadership, he hired a team to help the company follow the woke ideology of bringing in diversity and inclusion. And they hired actual activists to enact this, down to hiring someone who constantly belittled the original animators who were a big part in reviving Disney to enjoy the Renaissance age. Many of them felt ostracized in the industry where they welcomed anyone coming in (generally one of the few friendliest departments in entertainment), down to an event reported back by several people that a diversity speaker had the nerve to say that the Princess and the Frog was still considered racist. Anyways, treatment like that has pushed a lot of Americans with conservative values or just born white to feel alienated in our country that our ancestors built. Another good example is in Disney World the company had these American workers train these foreign workers to just replace these Americans with the foreigners they are training! I am so tired of our country being used this way, the hypocrisy of calling it the land of opportunity when really it is about taking away the benefits that WE Americans have built to prioritize cheap and sketchy labor. I’m tired of everyone wanting that “American dream” to the point I’ve come to loath it as it’s so shallow and it reflects a mentality that is corroding our culture, that freaking Vivik has the nerve to demoralize! Freaking idiot statement to not put two and two together. I want immigrants to come in cause they GENUINELY love this country, my top example has to be the Cubans. They are hard working too yes, but they have known the value to put back into society and have demonstrated well they understand the “American dream” or the loads of opportunities are the perks and the REAL value that conservatives have tried to promote more is to highlight the freedom our country has. But if they take off the cap of the H1 visas and just hands our stem jobs to foreigners, we are DONE. The middle class with be wrecked. Does this mean we can’t hire foreigners? No, we are welcoming to allowing people around the world to have their chance to build something to improve their lives. But we need to be more picky about excluding those who just use our country as a commodity with zero reflection of how we Americans created that environment to allow others to prosper. I’m sick of the projection of other countries insisting we are materialistic when too many of them move here first the lost superficial excuses. I want people to come in with a mindset to have a future here that doesn’t come at the expense of Americans, I’m fine with temporary visas, I’d say Japan is a good example as in the 80’s they had temporary visas to learn more about the American market so they could implement it back to Japan that contributed to their skyrocket economy at the time. But our country needs to be fixed FIRST, it needs to be our priority.
You are literally asking DEI for white people, you know that right? Capitalist company will always hire for the best, its called meritocracy, if you don't like it, then you're just a communist!!!!
advent of financial capitalism turned your dream into nightmare. but just wait until don 'levels the playing field for american worker' 🤣welcome, to the 9th circle of hell 🤣
The one thing that a ton of people overlook is how immigrant workers, both legal and illegal, completely mess up the balance of supply and demand in the economy. This transcends just the production, supply, and consumption of goods. There is supply and demand in the workforce too. Illegal immigrants, for example, increase the supply of workers and decrease the demand for tax-paying workers. This magnifies the surplus of workers and doesn't satisfy the increase in demand for jobs by American citizens. This directly contributes to inflation. Your work becomes worth less because companies can hire cheaper. Illegal immigrants still consume goods, so the output of demand for goods remains high.
I am fine with this IF anyone they hire is paid an extra 10% more than if they hired an American. Reasoning is that a company is hiring the best of the best, then there has to be a reason to hire them over an american. Conversely, there has to be a deterrent from just importing people and oaying them less.
it would never happen then lmao. I was probably the lowest paid foreman in toronto around 2013-2014* sorry lol. Only 42.50 CAD an hour. that was the highest I ever made. FOREMAN of a steel crew. >_> reading the engineering prints and telling the guys where the steel goes... like f me man Edit: I haven't worked steel in around 6-7 years now. But looks like the average worker in Canada now gets around 38-40CAD an hour just for being dumb muscle. So looks like it jumped up like 5 dollars since I was gone
My fear is they are simply going to use a cheaper labour resource to fill out the donkey work engineering. USA talent of the very best will still get hired its the other 95%ish of 'OK' engineers and similar who will be replaced by a cheaper resource.
I actually like this idea.. if not that then force companies to pay them equal to a native citizen and stop forcing the tax payers to pay the rest of their salary.
It would be huge if the entire scope of their ideas around immigration were in conflict. The divergence is around legal immigration, specifically visa delegation, and even further specialized by a specific visa type. This isn’t some ideological chasm that can’t be reconciled.
First, corporations do not hire great minds, they import mid- level Punjab for 40k a year and work him as hard as 2 people when they would have to pay Michelle and John 70k each a year. If Punjab complains, they revoke his visa. It is all about corporate greed.
Can someone explain to me why you need to grant citizenship for a job at silicon valley when the majority of their work is solely online and not physical work? I'm not American so i might be overlooking something
Just make some labor laws that make it so H1B workers get the same pay, benefits and time off as everyone else. Then you can be sure companies are hiring talent, not just a more profitable version of what we already have here.
no no no, these are high skill, high talent workers! Gotta pay them at least 20% above industry standard! I mean, assuming they are as skilled as we are lead to believe.
@@werewolf873 you don't have to make assumptions, maybe you should look at productivity with these immigrants and without these immigrants. If you think immigrants came to america through just nepotism and cheapness, you are completely WRONG. Hard work and amount of time spent on work compared to the average american in the coporate world is no joke. What vivek and musk are saying is completely right. They're being brutally honest and trying to fix the country, MAGA'ns need to adapt or China will dominate. I'm a proud american, but I gotta say the comparison between the dollar's fall in recent years, to the yuan's rice is dangerously coming close.
Its already happening in Sweden for a long time, back in 2015 i worked for Volvo, IT department, they already back then had an Indian guy working for like 90% less than the normal rate... That's just disgusting. Why would any company hire native workers when they can find people who never say no and work for like 50% less.
Sweden changed it so all non-EU foreigners are required to be paid 28,480 kronor ($2,588.69) per month. And to be increased to 34,200 kronor ($3,108.61) as of 2025. Which is 80% of the country's median wage. If the company doesn't pay that sum, they get fined. And if the worker isn't getting paid the minimum wage, they lose their work visa and has to leave the country.
Been happening for decades in Scandinavia and all across Europe. Corporate leaders always complaining about “lack of qualified people”, which is code for “lack of cheap but qualified employees from low pay countries to undercut the locals and get around benefits and employment regulations” 😅
I think its just the timing really that is the problem, if he did this in year 2 and didnt mention it until the end of year 1, AFTER having a full year of mass deportations, people would feel more comfortable about it because thered already be evidence of millions of people being made to leave. Right now nobody has been made to leave and they are already talking of importing the top level from abroad. I can fully understand why people are mad about that. they want the skilled workers, thats fine, that should be seen as dessert, and you dont have desert until you eat your dinner. Which is doing what everyone got you in for.
Honestly, if you’re talented immigrant, you wouldn’t work for 70k. I’m immigrant and my income is more than 120k and I won’t cut my own wage to work in America. That visa is all about to get cheaper labor. That’s about it.
@@alexandru5369yeah obviously they just want cheap labor. 60-70k is entry level for those graduated from decent universities. Of course not from community college.
Where are you an immigrant from? Because that just doesn't apply to alot of nations that's currency is virtually worthless compared to American dollers. 70k is worth more than 200k salary of my nation's currency.
@@Watam8o You're missing the point. It's not necessarily about immigrants it's about qualified American born, well. Americans getting shafted with low pay due too immigrants taking less money i.e. screwing over the "free" market for them. Thus Americans getting lower wages in even solid jobs
in my experience mentoring intern developers has been rough. Some get it, others shouldn't be driving a vehicle. There's one in particular that made me question if he even went to college for a CS degree. Apparently after four years learning the language he still couldn't grasp the syntax for basics like conditionals and for-loops. Kid didn't stand a chance against the frameworks we use and our massive codebase. Several others weren't much farther ahead tbh. I graduated top of my class, founded and started a student org which tutored my peers and has kept going well after I left. Even the dimwits back then were much farther ahead that most our interns are now. ChatGPT will help you get you a degree but it won't get you a job long term.
@@thekvng201 Yes but not in this topic. This topic is about the tech industry which Gen Z is undeniably the most capable in. For better or worse their entire life has been tech, they know it better than they know how to write with a pencil. Tech leaders claiming Gen Z is lazy and doesn't want tech jobs is just a flat out lie
I am on the younger side of the millennial but old enough to grow up during the dawn of soical media and most people having computers my fience is a year younger than me and yes Gen Z is very lazy you see them not being able to do basic things, i work for a big telecom company (I do security) and wow... the turn over for just Gen Z is very high they cant do basic customer service, half of them cant use computers just phones and pads (like old people) But non of the Gen X people or millennials have any of these issues.
It’s not that the US is lacking “talent” it’s that they’re getting rid of all the talent and not supporting them in achieving their talent and potential because it will cost more money for these companies.
I think the main reason for people freaking out is that right now was a horrible time to be talking about bringing in immigrants of any kind. For years of nearly open borders the majority of Americans are focused on getting out the illegals, not adding to the number of immigrants in the country. I believe this was a case of not reading the room, and horrible timing. People are not in the mood and were pushed too far. If they brought this up after getting a ton of the illegals out and tightening the borders, this would've resulted in far less of a negative reaction. Elon and Vivek are not saying anything wrong. They want immigration based upon who can contribute to improving the country.
@ right. why not wait till someones visa is up in one area or job field then hire for tech instead but also with the same pay an American would receive so Americans pay rate doesnt decrease.
@@riptyurass302 There's reasons to kick out legal migrants. Espionage would be one. It's only kicking out people that have obtained citizenship that would be immoral imo
14:10 "They come here not just for jobs, but as international students." If we need these people because they are so well qualified in their field, why are we bringing them here for their education? Aren't they already "well qualified in the field?"
To be entirely fair, international students have to score pretty highly to get into the top colleges and pay way higher tuition fees. It’s gonna be tough to get the average bozo from Wyoming and supplement a top 1% international student.
I'm friends with a lot of international students turned foreign/H1B workers. When it comes down to it, it's the money. Half, if not most, of the Chinese students I know came from well off families in Beijing, Qingdao, and Guangdong. International students pay $$$ to say they got a degree from the U.S. because it looks more prestigious back home. Colleges want that $$$. Businesses want people they can exploit for maximum profit meaning they can get double the work for similar or less pay. International students only score higher because they prioritize memorization and not re-inventing the wheel (I used to teach English overseas. Think of the number of all the people who have studied English since Elementary-level 1st grade yet can't speak a lick of it even if their life depended on it). Easy to score higher then they're learning to beat the tests rather than actually learn the skill. After working now in Tech as an IT Manager, what took a team of Indian IT guys 4 months to not even complete I did and gave them a resolution in 20 minutes of being on-site. Not because I'm exceptional (because I'm not), but because they (the Indian IT firm) wanted to get the most money for the least amount of work done and my ex-company wanted to get the work done while paying what they thought was cheaper (it was not). In fact the only reason I got that job was because the CEO was suspecting he was being played the same way he played them. It's all about the money.
TBH been living in ATX for almost 2 years now and I'm exhausted with the amount of IT jobs going to H-2 visa "foreigners". And even in the workplace the cultural gap is frustrating at times. I've literally been falsely threatened for showing favoritism because I wasn't treating Indian people special (by my Indian supervisor) who would go to "his people" first for opportunities or with important information. I would even be skipped in the chain to my own subordinates. But that type of shit was normal since it was an Indian run tech company and most people are here on H-2. Me and other American born ex-employees are all convinced they only hire Americans so they can operate here with a higher profit margin and simultaneously provide work for their own.
I cant believe I carry the same last name of those who spilled their blood defending these lands man. I just dont fucking get it... History and reminders are in our fucking names... Edit: I apologize man, your comment made me so mad. Just because we live in the West doesn't mean we haven't been through hell. Everyone can have their little group, but this treatment? insane.
I agree and think that priority should be developing skills and education system before outsourcing. Let’s be honest our education and trade school system needs a massive overhaul. Cut out the nonsense and fluff
Indian managers only hires indians. 15 engineers on my team. 1 is chinese the rest are indian. Manager is indian. His manager is indian. Diversity on the team was ranked high despite 93% of the team being indian. You know why? Cause the team itself is in charge of voting.
but you forgot to mention, efficiency up 800%
Well duh, if they're all indians, they're all monolithically diverse)
well at least some people still know how to run ethnic rackets like this... but the rest of us get to be "individuals" in a "market"
Dude i worked in a telco as assistant ops lead, i was the highest ranking white guy in a white country.
Entire place was ran by indians and nepotism, it was crazy, never though i'd experienced racism in my own country against myself.
Everyone but us is alllowed to do this
It’s not controversial saying Americans should get priority in America for American jobs.
Give me a good reason as to why? Just like Asmond says all the time how will this help get the consumers their product or services faster or better?
Yeah but American would need to want to work the jobs in question. Or be able to work them.
1000%
@@zenith5048 how will it cause product or services to be slower or worse?
@@zenith5048 Should Americans get priority for jobs in Japan?
We have the same MAJOR problem in Canada.
"Temporary foreign workers" have all but eliminated entry level jobs for teenagers or students.
We wanted talented, skilled and useful foreign workers. Not unskilled "students" who never actually leave
That’s really a Canada only problem. Australia, the UK and NZ don’t have guaranteed pathways for international students to citizenship for this reason. Canada did.
@riptyurass302 yes it's completely overwhelming our infrastructure, housing and jobs
Why would Canada take in "students" you should only take professionals, with strict screenings.
@@hirotakasugi4891 except they are hiring cheap labor for jobs that are entry level.
At least you have free healthcare over there, we're completely likely to lose our healthcare after Trump gets into office as he's already pushing Republicans that are in office to take away SSI.
I've worked in IT for 25 years. The H1B visa program has been ritually abused by tech firms forever (esp. Microsoft and Facebook). The biggest lie that Musk is pushing is that H1B visa holders are "highly skilled". I've worked with many H1B visas that simply took a 3-week training course before they get sent here. And then, they fail because its clear that they don't have the necessary skills, so they get sent back. OTOH, I've worked with H-1Bs that were excellent and should be here. But the majority are here to get stuck in a job and they're paid half as much as a skilled American. Also, there is *certainly* some cultural nepotism going on. Indians will always prefer to hire fellow Indians. They actively dislike Americans and shit on us regularly. They think we're stupid and uneducated and that we have terrible schools. It drives me nuts because my salary has ABSOLUTELY been affected by H-1B visas.
Woah woah woah, the skill they talk about is actually the skill to live on pennies per day. So yes, they are the highest skilled workers.
The arabs are the same too, thriving off of our culture whole doing the best to complain about it and replace it.
Musk should be arrested and deported. He claims he initially entered the country on an H1-B visa. That was a lie. That lie is a felony when told during the process of trying to get a security clearance.
H-1B have done nothing but import those who ACTIVELY HATE and DISMANTLE the country
unfortunately, they are not wrong. for our status as a country, our education rankings are second to all.
As someone in tech, what you need to know is that a lot of Indian management exclusively hires other Indians from their same town/college. It’s been like this for years. There is no “top talent” coming, these are entry level jobs that any new grad would love to have, but they are going to people overseas.
Companies get acquired by private equity, they replace management with Indians and offshore teams to India and sometimes also have some American Indians who can communicate with them.This is a routine playbook for many private equity companies and private equity cares about 1 thing only, making money and this is the most cost effective strategy
As someone in tech, they don't do it anymore than anyone else.
The best certification you can get is networking +. Not the comptia one.
If you have leadership that spots nepotism, this wont be a problem. Its a case by case basis within each company.
I would argue that tesla and space x do not allow for nepotism of this sort.
Huh no wonder the Philippines saying IT is the future if that's the strat
It's the same for public companies that are already global and can shift high paying jobs to India and it won't be so obvious when everyone is working from home. That's how I lost my job. Unemployed 2 years, now working for 60% of what I was making in 2022.
I would also like to add, there are MANY recent engineering grads from very highly regarded universities that CANNOT find a job right now.
Well said
Almost like people don't like competing against people that take 1/4th of the salary and work 80 hours a week because the only reason they are allowed to stay in America is for work, so if they speak up, the company just gets rid of them and ruins their whole life. Almost.
And companies set up stupid requirements here just so they can get H1B visa slots to hire unskilled foreigners instead for as you said 20% the pay
And the wage from that work doesn't stay inside America it leaves and goes to other countries.
almost like like voting oligarchs into office was a bad idea 😂😂😂
Depends on the company. If the jobs are in short supply, then competition will make sure the pay is good. If supply is low, then I can see that being a problem.
@tomyourfriendlyhagcollector Oh, I think you might be mistaken, so viveck is a cabinet member elect, and elon Musk is gonna be the head of the department of government efficiency, so don't worry, because if you'll see neither of them are actually members of an oligarchy, not to mention the US is a democratic republic, not a oligarchy so don't worry 😉
"extremely skilled" is the stretch. My whole team was laid off and replaced with a bigger team of h1b workers. About 8 months later, they were begging to rehire most of our team, because "the product is falling apart". Product was fine, they just weren't meeting deadlines anymore and quality had dropped a bit. None of us accepted. H1B is not about a shortage of skilled workers, it's about a shortage of skilled workers willing to accept near third world pay. Our pay isn't even that much substantially more when you account for our debt burden from American education. Vivek is right, our culture needs work, but the real solution is decreasing the cost of education and increasing the quality in the states. Not inundating the hiring pool and depressing the wages of our citizens.
if they were good workers they would care enough about their country to stay in it
increase the cost of education for non stem or non business fields and lower it for stem and business... boom more people will route to the cheaper option for education and you will have an abundant selection of young american stem professionals.
Prove it
i noticed it in my own group projects. People from west europe, US, or other developped nations did great.
No bad words about a single pole i worked with either. same for hungarians, or other central europeans.
also. It was significantly easier to work with engineers who were minorities in my country than it was to work with the same minority groups as foreigners. (DEI isnt as big here and they usually had good communication skills and a shared culture around taking responsibility for stuff and speaking up even if their technical skills weren't top notch)
When you're dividing a project id much rather have someone who can be reliable and tell me what he can and cant do at a certain point in time than someone whos a hassle to communicate with.
DEI just exacerbated everything. If I were a CEO and I heard "Women make 30% less", my thought wouldn't be "Those poor women", it wold be "How can we reduce men's pay by 30%?". And we'd get government/Blackrock subsidies for hiring them at 30% less? Sign me up now!!
One of them finally made it to the _top_ manager and now he's trying to hire all his family members. How typical.
EXACTLY. Same thing happened to me!! All from the same village and treated Americans as second class!!
Almost 90% H1B !!
@@JimLifeWorthLiving-u2i If it makes you feel better, its not just america they pull this shit in but almost every western country.
How can the US be a dominant global power without top talent?
@@goprochef6352 They can't even fix their own country? What makes you think they are actually top talent and not just a lower cost employee that companies want to increase profit margins.
@@zakyrath Due to India's sub-par infrastructure, the republic focuses on investing in infrastructure-light fields, such as infotech. Ironically, this strategy was successful, but due to pay differences in the US and India, IT businesses in the US do get better levels of talent by hiring Indians, who work better, complain less and could be up at a time when Americans are sleeping.
Not that profit margins aren't a concern, but it isn't the primary factor.
They aren’t trying to get top talent, they are hiring cheap talent
During WW2 we took all scientist from Hitler Germany . Including Albert Einstein. Top talent we need regardless. And America school is far behind it's not even a secret. We need to catch up and fix schools and programs
Anyone on this type of visa would not be low paid, that is why it only takes up 0.1% of visa applicants.
@@barryevans791 that's not true. Look at H1-Bs and you will see they are being hired in all levels of professions.
They are obligated to pay them more. They are more expensive labour.
You're ignorant then. Why would they grant them visas to work in the U.S. where they can earn a higher wage compared to staying in their home countries? They could simply outsource to places like India, which is what many tech companies are doing these days.
Zack doesn’t realize we have a record number of American students graduating with CS degrees and they cannot find a job. It’s NOT because they lack skills; a fellow grad from their same university who happens to be from India, for instance, has an easier time finding work for multiple reasons-racial nepotism like you mentioned, they’ll accept lower wages, they’re willing to work harder because the employer is sponsoring their visa and potentially providing a path to them getting a green card. They’ll put up with more because they’re essentially indentured servants (regardless of what conservative think tanks like the cato institute say)
Blame the system and companies not the immigrants.
It's not even that they work harder, they're just willing to put up with whatever conditions are forced upon them because it's better than wading through streets of shit in India.
American grads are smarter and produce better work, these companies literally just don't want to pay them.
There are others that also call it being basically indentured servitude, and it's accurate.
Indians are being brought in as indentured servants, and people coming over the border illegally are just a hair short from being slaves.
@@jaredmccain7555lol your take is so stupid it’s hilarious. People create these systems so yes people are allowed to hate people
As my experience, newer generations of cs graduates are not prepared for work, they do not have the necessary skills, their education failed them, I don’t blame them, but the fact is they are just not qualify in general. Many of them need to go to training boot camp to prepare them for work is telling.
Asmon, wait till you know people who get an Indian H1B manager, who lays off an entire department and fills it with H1B friends for far less money and give them better benefits, than their American counterparts that were laid off and that still don't offset the pay gap between the H1B holder and the native citizen.
Many such cases!
Having been interviewed by such, I could see my chances dwindled to zero in the first 15 seconds. Oh, and they never hire women.
@@glowing_rectangle Same in UK
companies who accept the visa should have restrictions on what they can do or not do. Just to keep it in check.
Yep. Whole lot of entry level jobs. Some of the more interesting ones which have popped up are: pickleball coach and manager, 7/11 manager, bunch of hotel cooks, vegas chippendales dancer. Definitely a whole lot of skilled labor that you can't find in the US.
Hold on there, Asmagold. Operation paperclip was about a select few scientists with unavailable advanced knowledge, who integrated flawlessly. Not the mass replacement of the working class with low wage foreigners.
I mean the guy talks like he knows shit about WW2 but whenever it comes to it he is actually clueless about most of it. Bro still thinks the germans actually made soap out of the jews ffs...
Yeap we already have a visa program for that it is called O-1 to get top talent. H1b were meant to be temporary visa to fill shortage but they are being abused by companies to get permanent workers
operation paperclip, the "importing" of german scientists after WW2, was **nowhere near** the scale of what's happening now. it was a total of 1-2000 scientists.
They were also actually smart, culturally sophisticated, and white. Big difference to who's flooding in the past 50 years.
@stinkfinga4918 this guy gets it
Those german scientists were actually talented unlike what we are bringing in.
And Paperclip was about actual top tier scientists, H1B visas are about mass importation of cheap labour, not skilled labour.
They were also effectively O-1 hires, the best of the best. Which they're claiming that's what they mean.
Flooding labour supply to keep wages down for greedy corporations is unacceptable
How do you think your Lord and Savior Elon Musk became a multi-billionaire?
@@beastmaster6943 By firing that flooded labor supply.
Elon Musk's point is if USA doesn't take in that foreign workforce some other country will take advantage of it to get ahead in terms of techrace which includes future tech for weapons and communication.
Domestic students in the United States have tax pressure and debt pressure. Immigrants don't actually have to face this. This results in Native Americans risking living on the streets unless they find well-paying jobs. Your tax debt loan stress is pathological.
@@SuperSky9 yet for some reason China has no concern with tapping into the “talent” from India and they’re right next door.
@@Hollywood_without_redheadsthat’s 100% right. I think you mean “natural citizen Americans” not native americans
My problem is that this "shortage" is taking place while companies conduct mass layoffs and refuse to hire anyone. There are thousands of experienced, skilled workers looking for a job and equally many (if not more) college grads from STEM programs looking for work. You can't claim that this country has a shortage while this is going on. The only reasonable explanation is that these foreign import workers will work for less money and are more easily exploited as they'll be deported if they quit or are fired.
Deported? Are you joking?
This is a valid point.
@@RSAnimism Do you not understand? These H1B workers are only allowed to remain as long as they have an employer that is willing to vouch for them. If they get laid off their status is at risk and if they don't find another employer willing to hire an H1B (not all are) they have to leave the country. Which makes an incentive for them to NEVER rock the boat, speak up or cause problems for their employer.
Brother it’s way worse than thousands of them. According to the census bureau as of 2024, 62% of American STEM graduates are either employed outside of STEM fields, or they’re unemployed.
Mind boggling. We have all the talent in the world and they just aren’t getting hired… probably because they demand actual living wages and they’re only willing to work 70hr weeks instead of 90hr weeks lmao.
@@RSAnimismYou definitely liked your own comment 🤣🤣🤣
Just ask an American programmer what he thinks of the code quality coming out of these Indian teams. There's so many Indian doctors and engineers because there's so many Indians, not because their culture fosters excellence.
Show me your math.
Also because many of their certifications are faux or "minority fast track reverse discrimination" woke crap. Not because they're actually of quality.
The code sucks ass i review it daily
A big factor is religion, how people function in the world based on how they relate to and perceive the Creator / Source / God. To most Hindus and others spiritually embodied, God is all separate form. See how the quality of outcome would be different based on one who finds joy in serving God and themself in all action vs. the atheist who completely believes all is separate, fearfully doing to survive, win, get, against others?
@@ephemispriest8069I got you fam. Say out of a country's population, 1% of them become doctors. Well 1% of a billion is bigger than 1% of 300 million therefore there will be more workers in any field chosen field coming from a country with a larger population. India's population is at least a billion America's is at least 300 million. There you go, THE MATH.
This is not about hating Indians. This is about noticing patterns, specifically how natives are being replaced in the workplace.
All by design.
I dont know, all the people saying they hate indians makes people think different
Careful with that noticing. It leads down a road you may not be ready for.
And how the new people, only hire people from their home country.
While claiming the locals are racist if they do the same.
Natives are rarely hired anywhere outside of reservations lol. Americans forgetting they're almost all immigrants xd
The H1B visas are not being used to get "top talent" you can search the jobs they're used for on a government database. They're used for entry-level jobs, secretaries, janitors, and line cooks. All making less than 80k.
The point I think Elon makes is it should be only for the top 0.1 % that you need, they don't want the H1B to be used for anything else.
@@-JustHuman- It's called O-1 Visa, which US already has.
Alright then how can you join the US? Asking as a german who has many relatives in the US, yet I can't migrate there because Visas are near impossible to get.
So first you want no illegal migration but also give no option for legal migration? Go in an empty land, claim ownership and then shut the door?
@@Arathreas just fly to Mexico and cross over the border. hehehe
@@-JustHuman-he’s full of crap and wrong.
Making the host population a foreigner in their own home for the sake corporate profit margins is plain evil.
Damn, are people really that dumb...IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY. They just hate you.
This is the case in every slightly richer country. When companies have a choice between a cheap foreign employee and you, they will choose the cheap option.
Just like in a store as a customer, having a choice between two similar products, you will choose the cheaper one, at this point you are promoting someone that is 99% not from your country.
@@Gumpie13 Right but the public is not going to accept that in their deluded worldview, so you must make stepping stones for them to understand.
They have the right to do it because they’ve worked hard and been luckier than you.
Host population? Interesting term. Where've I heard that before?
It's an issue when the "America First" party who will "Make America great again" doesn't put America first.
Welcome to the real world, Neo :D
Turns out "America First" isn't "Americans First"
I'd argue that if high-value foreigners are incentivized to work for and pay taxes in America, it's still putting America First.
he a "business first" person before he became "america first"
Get Americans to do the job. Like Musk said America is wildly undermanned because we are a country full of baristas planning to live off a Starbucks paycheck.
Place a tariff on foreign labor to exceed the salary of American citizens in the same position. You will quickly see it all come down to labor costs.
This.
Yes, this. If it is truly about hiring people with exceptional talent then paying them exceptionally isn't a problem.
💯The Solution.
That's actually a good idea. Guarantee all the talk about wanting "top talent" will go away.
well, in many cases the H1B workers are getting less paid (which is the whole point), so this won't work.
"We aren't facing a shortage of highly skilled engineers in the US, we are facing a shortage of highly skilled engineers that will work for dirt-cheap and don't have the notion of work-life balance." - Some dude that left a comment on the internet.
If the intention is to truly import the best of the best talent, then that's good, but it seems likely they'd just want to import average Joes. If they're here on a visa, you could exploit them by dropping their pay, etc. They'd be more likely to tolerate abuse as they'd have to immigrate back to their home country otherwise.
They upset the education system failed the county. How that happened? Multiple reasons.
just look at what happened to canada. you need not look further.
Yup, because there are going now in europe, because our quality of life is better.
You can see what companies hire H1Bs and compare the average pay and know that it's not the highly skilled and it's not because there is a shortage.
MY FRIEND ALWAYS SAYS NOT WHITE ON HIS RESUME..... GETS TONS OF INTERVIEWS......
I didnt realize that voting for America First really meant India First
Seems no matter what we do it's never America first, it's always Israel first, or Ukraine first, or now India first...
Called talent first. Do you want to wait for america to produce top engineers or hire skilled talent elsewhere?
@CanadianBalll ugh we didn't vote "talent first" bruh.
@@CanadianBalll Wait for America to do it so we have the capability in house.
All I know is, my GE washing machine can't wash cloths, Windows 11 is a hot mess, and every customer service operator sounds like the scammer who robbed my grandma.
Windows 11, coming to your computer from 2026...
People are against hiring overseas because it's a way to keep wages down, while corporations keep making more and more money.
A lot of Americans can't buy their own houses, while H1B1 workers live in overcrowded houses.
I'm ok with hiring top talent, but their culture should also be easily integrated with ours, Hire from Japan, Europe, Canada and other places.
wat about africa? we coo?
Funny how I've built 100s of homes in Toronto. I've even Foreman'd. Read the engineering prints and told the boys where the rebar/steel goes. Like it's insane man... so many homes. And here I am living with parents right now. On welfare. Dude, I didnt do any hard drugs or anything. Just a few beers now and then after work. Really gonna punish a homie for just surviving? Like these elites dont get it. We're struggling out here.
Financial and economic globalization have been disasters for workers. Now, we are making all countries third world in terms of labour.
@@Javaris_Jamar seeing Germany, no
@@Javaris_Jamar As long as it meets 2 criteria, Merit based proficiency and they willing to integrate into the society. Willing to leave their own culture behind.
It's well known in immigration law that the Indian community runs a racquet on USA H1-B visas to the point where they consistently secure 70% of visas taking opportunities from Americans and other countries.
so america should turn away college level immigrants that some other country educated?
GENIUS!
It happens in our country too, from the transport industry to the tech industry. Abusing work visas to get more of them over, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is some racket on their side of the border profiting from selling these visa opportunities to people. It's annoying because a lot of the Indian people I deal with are lovely people, but some of them are abusing our systems.
Countries will pay money to get there students in and get them jobs. They will pay half the salary some times.
We are also more in number applying as H1B is for highly specialized individuals. The reason people from other countries get less is because there are less applicants.
@@Gaanjalivesmatter False. There are a lot of indian registrations, but the companies sponsor and vet individuals before the individuals application phase. So at this phase the pool is selective and supposed to be full of applicants from all countries including American natives. I work in employment immigration, you cannot fool me.
My manager is an Indian-Fijian but he changed his European-sounding last name to Singh to get a job in tech.
based
Do the same, and if they say that you don't look Indian say that you " identify " as a Indian a double DEI whammy.
Lmao
That shit works???
In 2017 we opened a position for entry level mech. Engineer. We must’ve gotten almost 200 applications, and probably 60% came from India, 30% from China, and 10% from America. And our office was in a small town in California; 300+ miles away from a major city like LA.
On the whole, it seems this hiring of foreign workers over American options is positive in two aspects: lower wages for the employer and an immense opportunity for the employee. But these don’t appear to be out-weighed by the negatives: an American loses out on a job, as someone else mentioned it’s common for these immigrants to live with a lot of guys to split rent (allowing upward pressures on rent to continue), nepotism hiring of same race individuals moving forward, and brain drain on countries (like India) that desperately needs improvements in their major cities.
I know Brain Drain is happening because I dated an Indian in college. Her letter of interest included how she wanted to go to an American university so she could then return to India to help improve it; almost 15 years later and she’s still living in the US.
Can’t say I blame her; I visited India twice and I can safely say I’d rather be homeless in America than rich in any major city in India.
The framing is entirely wrong. A nation is not an international shopping mall or a job board for the world. It is a home for a people. We don't just bring in foreign races to replace the founding stock of the home because its theoretically better for business, there are things that are more important than business. Your people are the most precious thing you have.
The billionaires want you to be an isolated atomized individual without connection to your heritage, culture, and with no collective future. They want cheap labour, from an obedient serf class, and they are willing to take your home from you and your people in order to achieve that. It's a war on the stock that created and built the nation, it's as simple as that.
One of the most well said comments in this section 🫡
“Obedient workers” - George Carlin
The obedient worker must also pay mind to their own business as well. I work 9-5 at a Casino BUT I pay myself first (mind my own business). You will never hear me say “poor me”.
"Things that are more important, than business". Not anymore, you live in capitalism, where money is more important, than anything else.
Why are you against the free market and democracy?
I am a computer engineer. There are a lot of very smart engineers in America already.
The problem is not the engineers, its companies lacking any interest or vision. Almost every company I've ever seen doesn't want to invest money or time in developing something new. That's because 2 decades ago they realized that it was more profitable to let thousands of small companies try and fail and then buy up the successful companies IP cheap (through a lot of tactics). Engineers have been pushed into either taking massive risk by working for a small unstable company OR doing mindless grunt work for a big company. The risk of the small unstable company might pay off in the end, but for most it will not. The big companies have poor work-life balance in many cases where everyone I know and work with can't even take a vacation without someone calling, texting, sending teams/slack messages, instant messaging, and 10 different other forms of communication EVERY SINGLE DAY because someone has some BS emergency usually because HR hires tech illiterate dumb people everywhere.
Lol. I bounce between small companies that are fun to work for and large companies that can actually afforded to pay me well but the work is constrained and mindless.
Companies are not obliged to take care of you. If you want to be a capitalist, then start acting like one
Majority of Americans can't keep a job and have little to no morals. You guys abuse what you can within the bounds of the law.
1. Quitting and constantly looking for a job with higher pay - you keep jobs for 1-2 years max
2. You work your 8 hours and done. No proactivity, no trying to go the distance. You take as many days off as you possibly can. Taking sick leaves to play games. This is unheard of in asian culture
3. Busy talking and causing drama instead of doing actual work. Using phones excessively at work. Complaining there's a lot of work, meanwhile some other guy 3 meters from you is doing 2x as much
@@BeckyBucky3 Competition does not mean abuse.
Bro every time. My team could fix so many issues, but becky in management says no because, "this is the way we do things."
“Ai is going to replace your jobs” nahh bro, the foreigners are.
AI = Actually Indians
@@IAMFRSYep, people hating on Indians tho is wrong, good for them. This has been happening in the US since its existence, why do you think all big corps factories are all in China and India? Welcome to unregulated capitalism!
What a surprise, Elon advising on things that benefit Elon........When will you realise all he is interested in, is himself, not USA
*did
First foreigners then ai. A diverse group with different cultures can be manipulated to hate each other instead of the elites who created the situation
Any major corporation who outsources their IT, or frankly any other department, should be in a higher tax bracket. Then that money should be used to support high schools, trade schools and community colleges for developing high skilled IT engineering jobs for Americans. Make the companies themselves fund their future American workforce.
"We can't find enough qualified American engineers so we need to import the the best from the world"
Translation: "These American engineers are top tier and qualified, but too expensive. We want to import cheap subpar engineers"
Actually, probably not. US market is overriden with Bootcamp Devs. When it comes to really skilled people, most of them are already hired. I must admit though, that on the new grad end of spectrum, situation is curently more difficult.
That's how it's always been.
That's Just an excuse to hide failure of American don't throw oo cheap They get more money than others
Not at this level.
you one week ago: part shaved blue hair DEI hires devs ruin gaming companies, quality is lowest it has ever been, they are terrible engineers
you today: These American engineers are top tier and qualified
Racial nepotism is so big in Canada is nuts, especially among indian immigrants. Not Canada born Indian, just new immigrants. A lot of Canadians, including me haven't been able to get a job in our respective fields. Recently one of my friend told me that his shop hired a indian immigrant who had been in the country for less than 3 months, has 0 welding skills or experience, constantly fucks up welds and my friend gets blamed for it. And guess what! I APPLIED TO THAT SHOP AND REAPPLIED AGES AGO AND I HAVE WELDING EXPERIENCE. It's so nuts, many jobs are posted on job bank (a government runned website dedicated for job hunting, not sure if thats fully correct or not) but you never hear from them, why? Because its a cover up. This isnt conspiratorial or anything, its been confirmed, they post jobs on the site, never respond to anything, delete your application, go to the Canadian government and say "hey we can't find any workers we need to bring immigrant workers here." You know how fucking stupid that loophole is?!
I've also had a employer who was Indian told me they wouldn't hire me based off the fact I'm Taiwanese. They thought I was Chinese (ofc you can argue abt it) and i had to tell them my family background. Then they said i could be lying so they weren't going to go forward. Beyond fucking frustrated. I was born here. I was raised here. It isn't racist to say that Canadians SHOULD be prioritized for Canadian jobs.
Thats the thing a lot of, but certainly not all, white Canadians and Americans are starting to realize. We built a society and culture where we welcome everyone to set an example to the rest of the world. We were taken advantage of, because the rest of the world only cares for themselves. We set ourselves up to be laughed at for seeing merit above ethnic or culturally homogeneous practices.
Its that frank Herbert quote about when you're in power you show me mercy because that is your way, when I'm in power I oppress you because that is my way. Choose your neighbors wisely!
I feel so bad for Canadian citizens being priced out of where they currently work and live in major cities. In a way I think Vivek is right in that the western countries failed themselves with the education systems and culture.
You are being erased. And will do nothing about it.
Diversity is our strength 💪🌚
We need more inclusion
It's even down to minimum wage jobs now...I've worked at 4 different restaurants in the past 7 years and 90% of the staff is indian all working 11 hour shifts for minimum wage 6 days a week...LIKE HOW TF ARE CANADIANS SUPPOSED TO COMPETE WITH THAT.
I work in IT field and let me tell India has a reputation for being the absolute worst when it comes to ANYTHING tech related. Most companies already outsource their support to companies in India and it is a nightmare trying to troubleshoot anything with their “support” the people you talk to have NO IDEA how the product works and you can tell they are ready off Manuel or cheat sheets. My current place of employment we outsource our website management/development to company in India and we have had numerous issues with the website and getting them to upgrade or fix vulnerabilities has been a constant issue. Nonestop excuses as to why they have to delay a fix or patch
They don't even speak English well and when they do they are just scammers.
America is not an economic zone or dumping ground. It's our home
No more immigrants. We're full.
Elon and Vivek are billionaires, so are a lot of other Tech CEOs. To billionaires countries are economic zones and the WORLD is their home. They could literally live anywhere they want to. The don't have the kind of attachment to this country that you have and would sell out 90% of all Americans if it meant they could make an extra 10 billion dollars. Make no mistake.
Trump is one of those billionaires, and he filled his entire cabinet with billionaires. They do not care about you, me, or anyone else.
America is LITERALLY an economic zone
so say the natives
lol, Land of the free because they're free to exploit you. L .
I’ve seen the H1B Indians in my apartment complex in Silicon Valley. They have 4 H1b dudes in one house with just a table and nothing else, all empty. So they each make like 1/3rd I do, but live in a way that I can’t because I have a family here and not in a foreign country that costs 1/15th the cost. Silly me
Saw the same thing in Redmond from 98 till 2010. I got laid off with a ton of white guys like me but not just Americans. Euros from Ireland, Moldova, Slovenia all dumped after that Indian ceo started. Even on Windows and Office.
I met one he own multiple apartments now. He mastered the art of managing money .
@@damiantedrow3218 probably ditched office and switched to zoho suite.
@@arthercasillas2755 having a family back in a country cheaper than where you earn and not being a part of their lives. Truly a master of coin.
And they're sending money back on remittances to their family, which means they're effectively making ~300K by Indian standards.
Has importing all this "talent" actually made the country better these last several decades? Just something to ponder.
Nope.
Ig a few new houses poped up down the road yesterday
How could you have said it didnt made it any better when you never even had a time when there was no immigrant contributing in your country.
@@2vizion2I work in residential construction. New construction is complete trash done as cheaply and as quickly as possible. If anyone is reading this looking to buy a home, NEVER buy a D.R. Horton built home.
Yes. Elon is an immigrant. Without him we have Kamala
The funniest thing is that, for me as a European, I can’t get a visa, or at least not easily. I have almost 10 years of IT experience and a university degree, yet I would still struggle to legally enter the US.
That's because the IT Companies that hire H1B would not be able to abuse you and give you lower pay like they can with third world H1B.
@@DavidBamber-m8j Great point. Americans and especially Europeans all believe in living well, living comfortably, and living peacefully. They also believe in having legal protections from predatory systems, practices, and corporations. People from Third World countries can’t say the same. Those people are going to try to find a way out no matter what. They’ll work longer hours, for less pay, and shittier treatment. Why WOULDN’T companies choose to higher them instead of those who think the deserve a high quality of life?
How interesting not more people engaged with this comment. See, even doing it legally is very hard! Why don’t we address better processing for legality.
Elon honestly wants to gaslight people into thinking that jobs going to Americans, in America, is somehow a deplorable opinion.
Elon and his sort just want cheap labor.
@@WhiteLeviathan he has potential lawsuits from people dying in burning Teslas
Yeah. This isn't about bringing in the top talent. It's about bringing in the cheapest talent.
Class consciousness is rising. And yes, all Elon wants is cheap labor. This is the MO of all ultra-capitalists.
he is a business owner. its a for profit entity. i mean. what do you think is going to happen? why not bring in some bloke from the world food bank or imf or world bank where money is aplenty and they just throw it about. then maybe the fella will squander funds and everyone gets a payday for about a month before the economy collapses.
Yes, businesses are going to try to decrease their costs when they can. Big surprise.
"It's hard to get americans to fill jobs"... anyone who has watched 5 minutes of either dirty jobs or deadliest catch would never make this statement.
What it is hard for employers to do is to get americans to fill jobs for wages that no one can live on.
Also it's almost worthless to even attempt to apply online because online job listings are filled with fake job openings. If you want a job you gotta go to a place to see if it actually is hiring then you either talk to someone or then go apply online. Which you can't just go to a lot of businesses to see if they have job listing up because they aren't that kind of business where you walk in the front door. It sucks to be looking for a job in a field where your only hope is applying online and praying it's a real job listing.
Then how can immigrants live with that income? How can they manage? Americans overspend way too much, they order food instead of cooking, most don't use public transport most go by cars, etc. Clearly it can be done but that is not the living standards you are willing to accept.
@@rickycool6083 why should they accept it because other countries overbred?
@@rickycool6083 They pack 15 people in a house, that's how. This also causes the average rent to go up which makes life even worse for everybody else.
@@rickycool6083they have welfare benefits, ngo help, and pack into 1 house.
When they say "competitive" they mean work for cheap, dirt cheap.
that is what makes something competitive on a global market
H1b's have to get paid industy standard. The average salary for an tech position for an H1b is 90k-100k. This is just another version of "The Mexicans are taking all our jobs."
Sounds like a skill issue
@@tritan130 "the average salary" no shit they are paying below that for immigrants for the most part.
@@snuffeldjuretit's competitive if the work is the same quality but one is cheaper. The fluent English speaker is likely going to be better. But Musk doesn't care about quality, only profits. Look at the QC of a Tesla for instance
Instead of benching the team, fire the coaches. Instead of hiring players, hire the best coaches. I learned 100x more on the job than I ever did getting my physics degree.
I worked at the immigration dept. for a tech company. Even though they are legally required to post tech jobs where Americans can apply, they do the minimum and post in obscure places so that they can get their foreign visa workers/indentured slaves.
Oh but there is a guy from Ukraine saying it's not true 🙃
Or could it be that both the companies and the foreigners mutually benefit? The company gets a kick back for hiring h1b. They get to send money back home rent free aside from taxe....who am I kidding I bet they are exempt from taxes.... aside from the fee at Walmart/western union.
We get shit on with higher consumer costs and lower quality of life.
Or they make the job requirements such that no Americans will qualify.
@@Knowbody42 Correct, that also.
Labor costs in the United States are too high to compete with other countries. Secondly, American citizens have to bear the pressure of taxes and debt. As a result, American citizens have to choose high-paying jobs to prevent themselves from living on the streets. This is an American institutional problem.
I was an international student. I worked in indian company before. They hoard H1B for their own people first bro, worked for them for 2 years, I didn't get selected once. and no, I didn't get unlucky, at that company (big company), all indian 100% all got H1B.
lmao not even latinos are that discriminatory and you are part of the team(you are the tourist guy), you only get a racially charged nickname and thats it, unless you are from Venezuela.
thats because those visas are for the ones that infiltrate the US to spy lmao
Exactly, I'm ok with hiring top talent, but their culture should also be easily integrated with ours, Hire from Japan, Europe, Canada and other places.
If India was so smart as people claim, nobody would want to leave from there.
In Poland we actually do opposite.
yeah and elon says america will lose if we give or jobs away to people who will completely re imagine America with their shear population.
As someone who worked in the US on h1-b visa as a software developer. Yes this is absolutely true, not only you get paid less than native Americans but you also need to work more. You are basically held hostage by your employer. And you need to suck it up for 6 years before you can apply for a GC. When I found this out I was back in Europe in 6 months and never looked back. And honestly I am glad I did this.
100%
thats the reason most H1B visas are given to people from developing countries. The salary is shitty for you because you are from Europe. Meanwhile for an Indian, something as low as 22 an hour, is 10x the salary they would have made in their country.
@@Cristian-sk6wiWhat is to be done? What is the solution?
@christopherzhou5361 Increase wages after treating these Visas and Internships as Slavery.
Yep this is just a method to hire underpaid and overworked labor to save money. It has very little to do with getting the amazing and talented people from around the world. I disagree with it but I also agree completely that we should be getting the highly skilled and employing them at the same rates and we should be investing into our own education more too. We should also be punishing companies that are using this as a way to save money.
What scares me is that if the Americans do something stupid, they have countries behind them who are waiting in lines to repeat the same measures and apply them in their governance. Most of them will not stop and think if they are on the right path.
The job market is already so bad for entry lvl positions, this is going to make it so much worse.
I graduated from a big 10 college with a stem degree in August, interned at a top defense contractor, and can not find a job. Applied to hundreds of positions.
This is going to make it impossible for entry lvl college grads to enter the workforce for which they were trained for.
Expanding immigration with H1b would destroy the native population. This whole situation is ridiculous. AMERICA FIRST
THIS THIS THIS THIS
Dont lose hope. It took me like 350 or 360 job apps to get my first engineering job with a great GPA, masters, and multiple years of internship. Finally got the interview and ended up contracting at NASA.
The job will come - hang in there and keep going. Its tough and hopeless but you will get that opportunity.
It's about to get a whole lot worse too, because the first programming jobs AI will come for will be entry level.
Labor costs in the United States are too high to compete with other countries. Secondly, American citizens have to bear the pressure of taxes and debt. As a result, American citizens have to choose high-paying jobs to prevent themselves from living on the streets. This is an American institutional problem.
This is also why the quality of products coming out are shit.
H1B’s visas aren’t for TOP talent, they’re literally entry level IT jobs.
They are obligated to pay them more. They are more expensive labour.
Everyone starts at entry level. I know of a lot of entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley who also started out as immigrants in entry level jobs, but now have startups. What’s your point here?
What a smooth brained take. who do you think invented optic fiber? Quite a few other luxuries you enjoy and take for granted also come from immigrant workers/developers.
@Caonabo the H1B pay database is available to the public. They are bringing H1B dog groomers, pickleball trainers, cooks, truckers, plumbers, accountants etc etc. Its not for top talent. The O1 visa is for top talent, H1B is for entry level stuff lol
@@Caonabowe aren’t talking about outliers 😂
A big part of this debate is the timing of it. 7% interest rates. Unaffordable home ownership, layoffs in every sector, but particularly in tech, and the worst job market in history. AI rejecting your application before anyone even sees it…I think all of these things make people really sensitive to the threat, or perceived threat of their wages being undercut and of favoritism in hiring practices. The fact Elon decided to have this discussion on Christmas of all days, when everyone is sitting at home on their phones just compounds the powder keg
Again, this is about highly skillet engineers, top 0.1% talent. Doesn't concern average Joe.
As for housing, the deportation of millions will help with that. But deregulation will help even more, because it will allow the supply to skyrocket. The only reason why homes are expensive is that there's a shortage, and the main reason for that is overregulation. Not the only reason, but the main one.
Idk man in practice it does seem to effect entry level jobs alot
@@andrasbiro3007
1) Isn’t the O1 visa more applicable for that type of candidate? Why not expand that visa as opposed to H1B1, which is far easier for employers to abuse
2) Even if every H1 candidate was top 1%, they still can be exploited in ways that an American couldn’t. If the H1B1 is to be expanded, the pay they receive should be at parity with American wages. It helps prevents exploitation for the foreign worker, which I would think they’d appreciate, and it prevents Americans from being undercut.
But Elon and Vivek don’t want to pay them equally lol.
Also, you’re absolutely right about the housing shortage.
I mentioned that because these type of sentiments arise from a variety of external factors that build up overtime until a straw breaks the camels back. I agree with your points there 100%, But I said what I said because you’ve got take a holistic view to get the full picture around broad sentiments like this, and our shitty job/housing situation, combined with sticky inflation is what I think is fueling most of this anxiety. When money goes less than it did before, sentiments like this boil over.
Why are supporters acting like a "degree" from Vindaloo University diploma mill is equivalent to a STEM degree from an American university? If Musk cared about "hiring the best", he'd hire some of these Americans that have to do work unrelated to their degrees, because that's all that's available to them in the current market and hiring culture.
*As someone who works at Intel and has seen many many many Indian chemical engineers at work, I can honestly say these guys are not the cream of the crop! They are the cheapest dollar per work unit, period!*
Because they lie (shocker) about their credentials
Haha mid white guy mad
same in CS. You have dudes from africa who went to top private schools at home who can barely pull up and do frontend properly... While some European from a mid level highschool path does all the backend and architecture design...
I studied in an international course. you recognize patterns quickly sadly...
sure if you compare these people to the nationwide average they might pass but tbf. when i did math i was below average in my highschool class. i scored top 14% on the competences test during my first year at the top uni in my country and the test was exclusively for other students in the faculty of sciences.
Wouldn't make me a good mathematician but at that point for my age group i was in a very high percentile of knowledge in math considering i was top 14% of science students in the top uni in my country.
Being the dumbest person in a smart class might make you look smart but nobody will want to work with you lol. I reckon when they talk about these statistics its the same. sure they pass difficult classes since all science based classes tend to be difficult but it wont make someone a good engineer. for that you need to actually exceed the field not just participate.
and an uncomfortable truth is that hard work is overvalued and certain skills and talents people are simply born with.
My uncle for example never really studied much and graduated cum laude in classical sciences, he'd read a book once and understand it.
climbed the corporate ladder and retired at 50.
The classical western system used to be to just try and follow your strengths but we try so hard to shoehorn people into STEM.
I Personally was way more suited for social sciences. the few classes i took in the field were very easy for me to do well in. but i never felt like it would have been a viable career path.
I worked with Indian software developers at Intel in the past. Same.
@@EarthScienceEnjoyer I think it is also generational and institutional knowledge. America has been doing world leading work in technology and STEM for many decades. In some cases America literally invented these fields. So there is deep generational and institutional knowledge in these fields that gets passed on both in schools and at work. New software developers starting out 30 years ago in America went to work with people who had already been doing software for years and had experience. 30 years ago India had no meaningful experience in software development at all. So who taught their university classes? Must have been people who had a fleeting knowledge of the subject. One of my math professor in college was a literal rocket scientist who used to work for NASA. My business professor retired as a manager from a large corporation where he managed hundreds of people. One of my software engineering professors had worked as a consultant in the field for 20 years before teaching. Etc. Maybe India has some knowledgeable managers, but they don't have an equivalent of the NASA or CS consulting guy to be teachers over there.
Ramaswamy had a point about promoting less intelligent people over the more intelligent in American society, but at the same time a society that brings in people from other countries who will work cheaper than the society's OWN CITIZENS to compete for jobs with the intelligent people in our society creates issues as well. Why would American youths want to go to college and work harder to major in STEMs if our society is willing to bring in other countries' citizens to work the jobs our citizens are trying to become educated to work for cheaper?
Maybe Ramaswamy and Musk don't care about the average American as much as people thought?
🤔
Maybe that's why Ramijeet wasn't the candidate
They absolutely do care about average Americans, that doesn’t mean they’re perfect. Elon has lots of takes I agree with, and lots I don’t. This is among them. Another take of his I disagree with is his position of fertility rates and “under population.” I completely disagree with him there, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have good intentions or that he hasn’t done a lot of good for America already. Diversity of opinion isn’t a bad thing.
Excellent point about motivating American youths. That's what especially Gen Z sees right now. They live on the internet, and on it, there's mountains of stories of highly skilled people with years of experience, who fell victim to a mass layoff (often due to offshoring) and now can't find a job. Yes, there's tons of unfilled job openings... for "entry level" positions with entry-level pay and 8 years job experience + 20 years of experience in a 3 year old programming language. Everywhere, there's threats of AI already outperforming them in the fields that promised job security when they started studying.
Whatever statistic about a supposed skill gap and labor shortage you have, it's irrelevant. Gen Z's and Gen Alpha's PERCEPTION is the only thing that will ever be relevant to their life decisions, and those statistics don't conform to the reality they see every day.
@@charlesbrown4483 If they care, how does blocking young Americans who finish college (up to having 2 years of previous experience) from finding entry-level and junior jobs help them? It literally repeats the cycle and becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
@JosephSullivan1979 seems like there just needs to be a balance then. Clearly immigration has gone too far, but that doesn't invalidate Vivek's point about filtering for the best immigrants..
We’ve had 420k layoffs in tech in the last three years. The number of tech job openings increased only 30k/yr for the last two years to 218k in 2024. There’s plenty of out of work qualified professionals in tech now more than at any other time in history. This doesn’t even include the new graduates or career switchers who are struggling to just get their resumes seen by a human.
Vivek is 1000% right about the culture in the US. If you’re a poor kid going to a public school you’re tortured for trying to succeed academically and being enthusiastic about learning. It’s also, however, accurate that the other part of the equation is labor overseas is cheaper for the same skill sets across the board. Talented Engineers in the US cost a lot more and aren’t going to take short term contract work. Temporary visas are bad, bringing talented immigrants into the country is a good idea, but for these big companies they know they will pay a lot less for these people (at least in the short term, and when they demand more like other US engineers they get replaced).
To that end: how about we give tax incentives to businesses hiring full time US STEM employees over issuing visas, and paying them what they are worth instead of looking for more ways to exploit overseas cheap labor for profit? Design in the US, build in the US if you want - but also understand that in a global market there are going to also be similarly skilled people willing to do the same things and produce the same products for less, so there’s still a balancing act to be had.
Legal immigration was designed to drive down middle class wages the same way illegal immigration was designed to drive down wages of lower class. Yes, the rare H1B earning 250k is middle class when billionaires exist, FYI. The point of a system is what it does.
Legal immigration was weaponized the moment they started targeting the third world.
And feminism
@@kauetadaieski3131 Unironically yes, one of the biggest scams ever pulled by the corpo-govt cooperative. An instant 100% increase in labor supply destroyed worker's wages.
Huh? Median income in the US is less than $150k.
What a surprise, Elon advising on things that benefit Elon........When will you realise all he is interested in, is himself, not USA
Bs. They hiring because it cheaper and profit
That's the bottom line.. big executives want more money 🤑 in the end. Kind of sad but thats capitalism 😅
Do you have any idea on how H1B works?
Cope
Ask why there are so many errors in hospitals and look no further than the H1B1 employee.
@@cats4603 welcome to capitalism. Don't like it leave!!!!!
That's called the free market. If you want the government to intervene you're a communist
If he actually wants the top 0.1% of engineers, they should apply for an O-1 visa. We shouldn't be using H-1B's to get top talent; it doesn't work that way.
Exactly
What a surprise, Elon advising on things that benefit Elon........When will you realise all he is interested in, is himself, not USA
@@theoppositeopinion9290Problem is opposition isn't any different on those policy issues....
Illegal immigration and the H1-B visa system both have a single purpose: creating an indentured servant class of workers to undercut wages of middle and lower class Americans for the enrichment of the wealthy. That the system occasionally brings over exceptionally talented individuals is side effect, not the main purpose.
>asmon comparing code monkeys who forged 8 out of 10 certs to operation paperclip
wew
you have never been around Indian engineers. They dont come close to Americans. its just that these companies think they can cut cost. It will blow up in their faces in the end anyways as the technical debt adds up to critical levels.
elon has been around them, and I bet more than you ;)
@@snuffeldjuretI have been around them more than Elon, and most others.
Indian engineers are not as skilled as Americans, and it isn’t usually a matter of intelligence but motivation and culture.
The American culture of innovation and pushing boundaries is why we are as technologically advanced as we are. American Engineers tend to be engineers because it’s what they wanted to do, it’s what interests them, and it’s what they enjoy. Indian engineers tend to be engineers because they didn’t want to be failures in the eyes of their culture/people.
This doesn’t speak for all Indians in tech. There are plenty of top performers who are passionate, driven, and extremely intelligent. But you will always see that they are those things because they love what they do.
@@snuffeldjuret Then he is a idiot.
But then, Elon still have his Tesla car company in China, where they steal all his tech.
He have not been very impressive.
They come close enough for the amount they are paid. If the company has to deal with a couple quality control issues in production but saves 80% on engineer pay, then at the end of the day nothing is wrong business wise. If it's going to blow up in their faces, then it will do that and they will be forced to hire better or close the business. Since that isn't happening that means they are willing to deal with a team that they pay 80% less for marginally less quality at worst and the same or better quality at best.
most h1b indian engineers are paid 20% less than american engineers and dont even get other benefits from the company or government. if it were me, i wouldnt give the same 100% as an american native because im not treated the same/
It's weird, it's almost like if our entire experience with a people is either inept technical support or them scamming our grandparents we develop a distrust and hatred for them.
That’s just sampling bias
@@Sach973 I'm sure everything you disagree with is a logical fallacy. The fact remains that it's the truth.
@@Sach973 stereotypes aren’t 100% accurate, but 95% is good enough
FR FR
Comment sections a big yikes. Pattern recognition is real sure, but we are also meant to challenge our assumptions- thats literally how we learn. The only way anyone's a hivemind- is if you admit your part of one yourself.
i thought we were moving forward not backwards wtf
The H-1B visa is one of the most abused visas in the world. There is no shortage of engineers the tech industry just wants the cheap labor with employees of no recourse. Vivek is incorrect, its not the culture that's not producing the best engineers, its the tech industry wanting the cheap labor. Its not racism against indians most of the H-1B are allocated to most of the outsourcing firms in india: Infosys, tata consultancy, and Cognizant. Look up the disney IT outsroucing incident.
I feel like if Trump takes a position against the H1B he’s really going to alienate the majority of people that voted for his immigration policy. Legal migrants followed the rules, worked for their qualification and are extremely vulnerable during mass layoffs. They don’t deserve to be accused of playing the system just because they followed the rules and regulations to move to the USA.
Exactly. Know what doesn't encourage young kids in school to take up engineering degrees and to try hard? Hearing the tech market is overly saturated with foreigners and impossible to get into.
That literally makes people change their education goals entirely.
Close to Orlando and I remember when the Disney people got laid off and said they brought in H1B's and made them train them before they were let go. They sued but lost because it was "legal" immigration.
isn't a large group of people feeling entitled to more pay thaen a similar group of people considered a cultural thing? Like if the children of wealthy people refuse to work for under $50 an hour because where they come from that is considered slavery, is that not just their rich entitled culture? When black people blame every bad decision they make as excusable because of systemic racism, even if they can't point to a specific issue in their life, is that not a cultural issue? Culture is more than just what holiday's we celebrate, it's how we structure our values. What we will accept and what we won't.
@Johngc61 Vivek is obviously correct. If he wasnt, why would the Establishment target him like this with this massive effort?
He is completely right about the culture that promotes Football and sports over being highly intelligent, a doctor, a scientist, an engineer or a philosopher etc.
The culture promotes screwing around instead of getting things done.
I cannot help but think about the 'Nobody wants to work' nonsense we've been hearing over the last few years by corpos. I am in the tech sector and the layoffs has been brutal the last 2 years, but still you see people from overseas coming in in droves. The truth is that corpos want to pay those who are willing to work highly skilled jobs for minimal-wage rates. THAT is what everyone is getting fed up about. You import the 3rd world, you become them.
Well the method to make this stop/fair is simply by forcing the companys to behave by certain Standard regarding pay and treatment of employees, in that case it wouldn make much sense to import since it would just be more expensive workforce, if you just keep people out you might keep people out that are needed in some areas or are talents, so instead you should even the playing field, so that the corpos cant do this, rather than directly block people who want to work here.
The corpos put that narrative out because its a truth, just one that isnt complete, as in 'Nobody wants to work, because our conditions are so trash'
Yeah, I'm not a fan of that perspective. To think a country has 300 million people and no one wants to work? They do, they just need incentive. Everyone wants to be a part of society, that's what makes people happy and healthy.
it's call free market. capitalism baby!
Tech sector needs workers unions.
mandate a % quota per corporate entity. if they want an indian company, go incorporate in india and see how well they do in that market away from the benefits of grants and social aspects of the us market.
It is patently RIDICULOUS to claim "Americans don't want to be engineers." Many of us do not have the means; and you're suggesting out of 330 MILLION people that no one wants to be an engineer. That's idiotic.
At least 17.5 million Americans have a STEM based bachelor degree. Can’t say what percentage of those are engineers let alone the sub categories. So I wouldn’t say that line of work is encouraged in America.
@@coggnus965666+% of stem bachelor degree holders work outside of stem or are unemployed. The problem isn't interest in the field. It's being replaced by cheap labor.
The context is relative to countries like china and Russia who produce a lot and we can’t compete with if we didn’t import.
Wait there’s no way you think he’s claiming literally zero people right?
Right?!?!
they ARE NOT more skilled. They are cheaper.
more skilled than the people willing to work for the same wage
that is literally what you call more skilled
otherwise only one person in the entire world can be more skilled
@@model3m all the big universities are full of Indian engineering students these days where are all the Americans? Liberal arts. It's not their fault
@@snuffeldjuret Yes, exactly, they are devaluing any skills you have or gain, yet I feel like you are arguing the otherwise
these are not mutually exclusive
@@snuffeldjuret No, they institute a "fake it till you make it" policy. They get fake credentials in India and then apply to every job until one bites.
Don't let CNN twist this.
I'd rather have Immigrants come here LEGALLY, and SUPPORT America, and have TALENT to build this country. If there were a surplus of talent currently in America, then Silicon Valley wouldn't have a shortage of workers. Better to have workers work here in America, than have jobs shipped overseas.
Vivek and Musk pure examples of those LEGAL type immigrants that created wealthe and jobs for Americans!!👍🏼👍🏼
2:39 Operation Paperclip involved 1,600 people. O-1 visas cost ten times that. H-1B visas cost 100 times more. Each year!!! Asmon, no one would be concerned if there were just 1,600 experts available each year.
Verner Von Braun refused to help NASA without the bringing over of his boss, Dornburger, and there original team from Germany. About 70,000 other "Paperclip people" ended up being involved. Filling roles not just in NASA but in the CIA and on the ground operations around the world. Joseph P Farrell and Daniel List have covered this extensively. They refer to Linda Hunt and Peter Dale Scott as authorities as well.
It was more like 70,000
Operation Pooperclip is now underway
WTF!
Taxpayers funded :)
billionaire wants a higher supply of labour so it costs less, shocker.
maybe, just maybe, they are a bit smarter than you
ridiculous conclusion.
@snuffeldjuret for sure. Thats why they are doing it. Hes much smarter then me but i do understand supply and demand. And if there was a shortage youd think a proven engineer with a deep portfolio wouldnt struggle to get hired after the company they were at closed.
Source: me company closed up, took 6 moths just to get an interview and 9 months to get a job.
A lot of these jobs you see posted are there just to get the H1B. They arent jobs that you can actually get
@@snuffeldjuret Smart for doing exactly as OP ssaid and offshoring all tech jobs to China decades ago resulting in China acquiring US technology at an unbelievable rate and now being their biggest competitor? Really good for the US!!!!!!! Wow!!!
exactly i dont know why people are shocked by this. I agree with elon and vivek on alot of stuff but i also recognize there american business owners FIRST.😂
Finding jobs in IT as an American is already hard as it is, this will just make everything 100x worse
Identify as Indian and change name to pajeettts
@@tokebak4291 That works until you have the live interview an they see you.
@@Neonagi What are they gonna do,
make you take a DNA test? 🤣
@@Neonagifunny you say that, I have read anecdotes where the lying and cheating through the job application process was so bad, that the Indian guy who did the interview was different from the Indian guy who showed up to do the job and everyone pretended like it was all fine lol.
You want meritocracy or affirmative hiring?
It will get 100x worse for Americans. Companies want money. Employees cost money. Employees are an expense to companies. Americans are expensive. Hire overseas. Change American law to make it really really easy to hire foreigners. Just increase the number of visas by x100. Companies fire most Americans. Replace with all foreigners. This is a stop-gap until AI can replace humans in general. The government is no longer for the people. We live in an oligarchy. The government is for the mega-corporations.
I'm a Software Engineer Grad. There is basically no way to get a tech job if you have no experience or relatives in tech. I know only 1 person who got the job right out of college. Companies don't want New Grads - they want experienced engineers (and there are a lot after the layoffs and with H1B). There is basically 0 way for me to get enterprise experience, only small projects for mom-and-pops businesses.
Attracting the top engineers from all over the world is surely beneficial for the businesses, but is 100% cripples the local market. The only solution I see is forcing companies to balance H1B jobs with entry (or just American) engineers. Because companies like Google don't even look for people with Bachelor or Masters. You need a PhD to get the entry position or 5+ YoE in enterprise environment.
This is how it works in general, not only in USA. They don't want to spend money training someone new when they can get a experienced engineer. Also you need more then a Bachelor to work nowadays.
That's not true at all.
Literally everyone finds a job at very respectable companies right after college and many of them before they even graduate. I know at least 20 people that have done the former and 6 the latter
so america should turn away college level immigrants that some other country educated?
GENIUS!
@@XxXDeadlykingdxXxX you’re wrong
@@XxXDeadlykingdxXxXnot true. I busted my ass to land a f500 engineering role.
Pretty much everyone else in my graduating class got left in the dust. Some of them went back to the local milk factory literally. It is atrocious
So.... It's bad to prioritize American citizens? I am not American but wtf
Elon are saying they are focusing on american and are running out of their 'top talent' to hire. Some argue to increase education for america instead hiring oversea worker. These guys are saying they're not focusing on american at aljust to advance their ajenda that immigrant are keeping wages low.
its all a guilt game
Oh so now u like affirmative action
@@robdtown313 so...why would USA prioritize other citizens? If they became a citizen of USA they will also be prioritize.
It is not bad. The thing is that importing workers should benefit American citizens more in the long term.
Currently the benefits are better than the drawbacks but the number 1 reason that this is not appreciated by the average American is because wealth distribution is pretty shit in America.
Rare asmongold L. We have talent here. It has NOTHING to do with a lack of talent and EVERYTHING to do with paying them less than they would an American.
Rare? Asmon rarely has a solid W outside of dunking on AAA game devs. His moral philosophy and political logic are often incongruent with something he said 2 minutes before or 5 minutes later. He is honest enough to sometimes say he doesn’t know shit and not to listen to him though and that’s fine by me. I don’t mind hearing people talk shit completely out of their element.
His last two weeks have been L's. Wtf!
Generally I agree with you that we have talent here and could compete. But Indian and I know China for sure give their whole lives to education from a much younger age and with much more intensity then most Americans and its pretty much their only life focus until they get a job. So much so that they often try to kill themselves if they get bad grades thinking they're not good enough and failed their families. It creates such a competitive environment that there isn't room for anything else.
America values education but also values social connections and life enjoyment activities which take away from study time and allow these other countries, who have different priorities to get ahead of us. Because of this we often don't reach the educational heights they do on average. Doesn't mean we can't but we'd have to get rid of all enjoyment of life and just do school work.
We’re trying to move away from cooperate power.
Reason why we have a culture war right now.,
The customer ends up paying that cost anyway. You're just changing where that money goes lol. For the same reason we benefit from buying goods from China. You can pay $3 for a toy made in China or $10 for the same toy made here in the US.
Rare W Asmon take, employers DO take advantage of this situation 100%. It is the same here in South Korea, many people on E-7 visas (professional employment) are getting screwed constantly. They get less pay (compared to locals), more work, no career advancement, etc. On the other hand, local employees get screwed over because they will constantly lose these positions to foreign talent who are willing to do the same job for less pay. The best possible solution is to enforce companies to give minimum salary based on the market rate, provide foreign employees with the same rights as local employees, and so on but we know it's never going to happen.
Effing hilarious citing Operation Paper Clip...that was 1600 people in TOTAL and those were europeans who absolutely fit into our culture pretty well. No it isn't good for our country to bring in randos from other countries. That has been proven out over 20 years now.
why would a european want to go to America right now? No healthcare, shitty transportation, and more expensive, and if they work through H1B visa, they might literally make less than in their own countries.
yes so true. Im from western europe.
In group projects its always been easiest to work with other Europeans, or Americans.
Funny enough a minority american will also be much easier to work with than certain other non first world places. Simply since the overlap in shared culture is still fairly big, especially when it comes to taking responsibility for stuff and proper communication.
Yes subcultures exist but in a fully international setting where everyone is different you very quickly learn who you can actually properly communicate and work with to get a project done.
Hmm... nazis, or people who shit in the street and don't respect sexual boundaries? Decisions, decisions... gee it's a wonder we don't have flying cars amirite?
it's funny that you say that, because at certain times people were saying germans can't be trusted, there were issues with italians, irish, east europeans, pretty much anyone who wasn't of british decent
@@jeycalc6877 who said the irish couldn't be trusted in the 40's lmao? That has nothing to do with intelligence or worth of the indian h1 immigrants. There's already EB1 visas for smart foreigners.
Imagine having to compete against foreign workers in a domestic workplace.
Then become better than those foreign workers
@@Hispanocelwe know the people, already speak the language, even if poorly. Have an understanding of the way the cultural notes and moral operate. Already have citizenship. Will pay taxes both income and property. I'd say we are already far better, and more appropriately suited to do the work.
*norms* but whatever.
@@adamwright2596 ya I understand but you’re basically doing a white washed version of DEI and affirmative action but for white Americans, it makes you look bad, whites need to go back to college and radically change many things that’s harming
@@adamwright2596 yeah, you guys are making a reverse DEI though
@@HispanocelI AM YOU FILTH, YOU WONT HIRE ME BECAUSE IM THE WRONG COLOR HOLY DAMN
Americans shouldn't have to compete with 8 billion people for AMERICAN jobs.
What a surprise, Elon advising on things that benefit Elon........When will you realise all he is interested in, is himself, not USA
lmao suddenly americans are the ones seething about globalisation.
"We need foreigners because you're not working 80 hours a week and don't have degrees."
"Okay, I would like to get those degrees."
"No."
"..."
I heard a lot of Philippine Nurses saying they felt like slaves to the hospitals because the agencies would get a cut of their salaries while their salaries are around 25-30/hr. That is why salaries are so low. A nurse salary is the same now as it was 20 years ago. How is that possible? Having cheap labor.
Nurses make $85k+ a year.
@@johnnycab8986 they work a lot and the hours are dogshit. Certainly aren't getting a free ride and that's not an easy job.
California nurses would say very different. Low patient count + incredibly high pay.
In IT there isn't 1 agency that takes a cut, there are usually TWO AGENCIES that take a cut of H1B pay. There are agencies that specialize in hiring H1B workers and all of them work directly for these companies. But these companies don't find them work, they delegate that to a more typical contracting agency that actually connects the employers with the H1B workers. Then both agencies take a sizable cut of the pay. Its a racket and everyone gets screwed but the companies.
@@johnnycab8986 Not in Florida nor most states. I don't know where you get this info from. Nurses make on average $50,000-$70,000. Nothing is higher than $35/hr for a nurse in my neck of the woods unless they are involved with critical care.
After all the campaigning on America first, elon and vivek are REALLY trying to piss all over it😂
It's almost as if politicians are liars or something
But this sounds like america first.
People surprised the leopards ate their face
America first. He didn't say white American's first. The goal is to prop up the country, not to prop up the people.
And Trump appointed them to do so
I’m honestly very sick and tired of the projection people have with our culture being too lazy, we just went through 15 years of woke ideologies that imposed DEI on us, and even then the hiring departments bent over backwards to get their token diverse hire and neglected the talent that already existed from the average American. We are at where we are is because so many of us have been sidelined! It was horrible when I first started to look for a job after high school, the recession happened a few years prior but no one was willing to hire a college kid who did have the experience for a freaking minimum wage job! I was competing with 30 year old and foreigners! And college is a POS as it wasted time and money to not give an actual job to the field of major.
A good example of how harmful the hiring industry has been us to look at how Disney operated in the last decade, let’s start with the animation department. With Iger’s leadership, he hired a team to help the company follow the woke ideology of bringing in diversity and inclusion. And they hired actual activists to enact this, down to hiring someone who constantly belittled the original animators who were a big part in reviving Disney to enjoy the Renaissance age. Many of them felt ostracized in the industry where they welcomed anyone coming in (generally one of the few friendliest departments in entertainment), down to an event reported back by several people that a diversity speaker had the nerve to say that the Princess and the Frog was still considered racist. Anyways, treatment like that has pushed a lot of Americans with conservative values or just born white to feel alienated in our country that our ancestors built. Another good example is in Disney World the company had these American workers train these foreign workers to just replace these Americans with the foreigners they are training!
I am so tired of our country being used this way, the hypocrisy of calling it the land of opportunity when really it is about taking away the benefits that WE Americans have built to prioritize cheap and sketchy labor. I’m tired of everyone wanting that “American dream” to the point I’ve come to loath it as it’s so shallow and it reflects a mentality that is corroding our culture, that freaking Vivik has the nerve to demoralize! Freaking idiot statement to not put two and two together. I want immigrants to come in cause they GENUINELY love this country, my top example has to be the Cubans. They are hard working too yes, but they have known the value to put back into society and have demonstrated well they understand the “American dream” or the loads of opportunities are the perks and the REAL value that conservatives have tried to promote more is to highlight the freedom our country has. But if they take off the cap of the H1 visas and just hands our stem jobs to foreigners, we are DONE. The middle class with be wrecked.
Does this mean we can’t hire foreigners? No, we are welcoming to allowing people around the world to have their chance to build something to improve their lives. But we need to be more picky about excluding those who just use our country as a commodity with zero reflection of how we Americans created that environment to allow others to prosper. I’m sick of the projection of other countries insisting we are materialistic when too many of them move here first the lost superficial excuses. I want people to come in with a mindset to have a future here that doesn’t come at the expense of Americans, I’m fine with temporary visas, I’d say Japan is a good example as in the 80’s they had temporary visas to learn more about the American market so they could implement it back to Japan that contributed to their skyrocket economy at the time. But our country needs to be fixed FIRST, it needs to be our priority.
You are literally asking DEI for white people, you know that right?
Capitalist company will always hire for the best, its called meritocracy, if you don't like it, then you're just a communist!!!!
advent of financial capitalism turned your dream into nightmare. but just wait until don 'levels the playing field for american worker' 🤣welcome, to the 9th circle of hell 🤣
Well put
upvote this
UPVOTE IT
The one thing that a ton of people overlook is how immigrant workers, both legal and illegal, completely mess up the balance of supply and demand in the economy. This transcends just the production, supply, and consumption of goods. There is supply and demand in the workforce too. Illegal immigrants, for example, increase the supply of workers and decrease the demand for tax-paying workers. This magnifies the surplus of workers and doesn't satisfy the increase in demand for jobs by American citizens. This directly contributes to inflation. Your work becomes worth less because companies can hire cheaper. Illegal immigrants still consume goods, so the output of demand for goods remains high.
I am fine with this IF anyone they hire is paid an extra 10% more than if they hired an American. Reasoning is that a company is hiring the best of the best, then there has to be a reason to hire them over an american. Conversely, there has to be a deterrent from just importing people and oaying them less.
No 20 percent more. These amazing foreign engineers deserve to be paid their worth!
They are already paying more by sponsoring the visa.
it would never happen then lmao. I was probably the lowest paid foreman in toronto around 2013-2014* sorry lol. Only 42.50 CAD an hour. that was the highest I ever made. FOREMAN of a steel crew. >_> reading the engineering prints and telling the guys where the steel goes... like f me man
Edit: I haven't worked steel in around 6-7 years now. But looks like the average worker in Canada now gets around 38-40CAD an hour just for being dumb muscle. So looks like it jumped up like 5 dollars since I was gone
My fear is they are simply going to use a cheaper labour resource to fill out the donkey work engineering. USA talent of the very best will still get hired its the other 95%ish of 'OK' engineers and similar who will be replaced by a cheaper resource.
I actually like this idea.. if not that then force companies to pay them equal to a native citizen and stop forcing the tax payers to pay the rest of their salary.
Aligned 9 out of 10 issues….but the one issue….immigration is a HUGE issue. We’re not talking about disagreements on tax policy.
It would be huge if the entire scope of their ideas around immigration were in conflict.
The divergence is around legal immigration, specifically visa delegation, and even further specialized by a specific visa type.
This isn’t some ideological chasm that can’t be reconciled.
First, corporations do not hire great minds, they import mid- level Punjab for 40k a year and work him as hard as 2 people when they would have to pay Michelle and John 70k each a year. If Punjab complains, they revoke his visa. It is all about corporate greed.
Can someone explain to me why you need to grant citizenship for a job at silicon valley when the majority of their work is solely online and not physical work?
I'm not American so i might be overlooking something
Slippery slope, you'll end up like Canada. No one wants that.
Shit on the beach? lol
Just make some labor laws that make it so H1B workers get the same pay, benefits and time off as everyone else. Then you can be sure companies are hiring talent, not just a more profitable version of what we already have here.
no no no, these are high skill, high talent workers! Gotta pay them at least 20% above industry standard! I mean, assuming they are as skilled as we are lead to believe.
@@werewolf873okay. Do that. And you still wouldn’t get the job.
@@werewolf873 you don't have to make assumptions, maybe you should look at productivity with these immigrants and without these immigrants. If you think immigrants came to america through just nepotism and cheapness, you are completely WRONG. Hard work and amount of time spent on work compared to the average american in the coporate world is no joke. What vivek and musk are saying is completely right. They're being brutally honest and trying to fix the country, MAGA'ns need to adapt or China will dominate. I'm a proud american, but I gotta say the comparison between the dollar's fall in recent years, to the yuan's rice is dangerously coming close.
Its already happening in Sweden for a long time, back in 2015 i worked for Volvo, IT department, they already back then had an Indian guy working for like 90% less than the normal rate...
That's just disgusting.
Why would any company hire native workers when they can find people who never say no and work for like 50% less.
it's why PewDiePie left Sweden
Sweden changed it so all non-EU foreigners are required to be paid 28,480 kronor ($2,588.69) per month.
And to be increased to 34,200 kronor ($3,108.61) as of 2025. Which is 80% of the country's median wage. If the company doesn't pay that sum, they get fined. And if the worker isn't getting paid the minimum wage, they lose their work visa and has to leave the country.
Been happening for decades in Scandinavia and all across Europe. Corporate leaders always complaining about “lack of qualified people”, which is code for “lack of cheap but qualified employees from low pay countries to undercut the locals and get around benefits and employment regulations” 😅
yeah ypur the problem....good thing the right has moves to make..will make examples..always do (invest in mexico)
So they're getting used and not complain....
I think its just the timing really that is the problem, if he did this in year 2 and didnt mention it until the end of year 1, AFTER having a full year of mass deportations, people would feel more comfortable about it because thered already be evidence of millions of people being made to leave.
Right now nobody has been made to leave and they are already talking of importing the top level from abroad. I can fully understand why people are mad about that. they want the skilled workers, thats fine, that should be seen as dessert, and you dont have desert until you eat your dinner. Which is doing what everyone got you in for.
Honestly, if you’re talented immigrant, you wouldn’t work for 70k. I’m immigrant and my income is more than 120k and I won’t cut my own wage to work in America. That visa is all about to get cheaper labor. That’s about it.
As an immigrant agree. Musk, and Vivek's logic is either ignorance or gaslighting
@@alexandru5369yeah obviously they just want cheap labor. 60-70k is entry level for those graduated from decent universities. Of course not from community college.
Where are you an immigrant from? Because that just doesn't apply to alot of nations that's currency is virtually worthless compared to American dollers. 70k is worth more than 200k salary of my nation's currency.
@@Watam8o You're missing the point. It's not necessarily about immigrants it's about qualified American born, well. Americans getting shafted with low pay due too immigrants taking less money i.e. screwing over the "free" market for them. Thus Americans getting lower wages in even solid jobs
"GenZ lazy AF" - Corporate America
in my experience mentoring intern developers has been rough. Some get it, others shouldn't be driving a vehicle. There's one in particular that made me question if he even went to college for a CS degree. Apparently after four years learning the language he still couldn't grasp the syntax for basics like conditionals and for-loops. Kid didn't stand a chance against the frameworks we use and our massive codebase. Several others weren't much farther ahead tbh. I graduated top of my class, founded and started a student org which tutored my peers and has kept going well after I left. Even the dimwits back then were much farther ahead that most our interns are now. ChatGPT will help you get you a degree but it won't get you a job long term.
Gen Z is lazy though for real. Most of the richest Gen Zers are streamers and content creators.
@@thekvng201 Yes but not in this topic. This topic is about the tech industry which Gen Z is undeniably the most capable in. For better or worse their entire life has been tech, they know it better than they know how to write with a pencil. Tech leaders claiming Gen Z is lazy and doesn't want tech jobs is just a flat out lie
Those above us did it to themselves. Couldn't imagine being an 80 year old reality denier going "You shoulda done the perfect since birth."
I am on the younger side of the millennial but old enough to grow up during the dawn of soical media and most people having computers my fience is a year younger than me and yes Gen Z is very lazy you see them not being able to do basic things, i work for a big telecom company (I do security) and wow... the turn over for just Gen Z is very high they cant do basic customer service, half of them cant use computers just phones and pads (like old people) But non of the Gen X people or millennials have any of these issues.
The thing is it becomes cheaper to give visas to people overseas, rather than train your own people, then you end up reliant on handing out visas
It’s not that the US is lacking “talent” it’s that they’re getting rid of all the talent and not supporting them in achieving their talent and potential because it will cost more money for these companies.
I think the main reason for people freaking out is that right now was a horrible time to be talking about bringing in immigrants of any kind. For years of nearly open borders the majority of Americans are focused on getting out the illegals, not adding to the number of immigrants in the country.
I believe this was a case of not reading the room, and horrible timing. People are not in the mood and were pushed too far. If they brought this up after getting a ton of the illegals out and tightening the borders, this would've resulted in far less of a negative reaction. Elon and Vivek are not saying anything wrong. They want immigration based upon who can contribute to improving the country.
maybe also that we should pay people that come here on a visa the same as an American would so it dont lower Americans pay.
Yeah, they already let in 30 million doctors and engineers. How many more do they need?
@ right. why not wait till someones visa is up in one area or job field then hire for tech instead but also with the same pay an American would receive so Americans pay rate doesnt decrease.
Hating illegal immigration is a moral and popular topic, kicking out people that legally migrated is not. It’s that simple.
@@riptyurass302 There's reasons to kick out legal migrants. Espionage would be one.
It's only kicking out people that have obtained citizenship that would be immoral imo
14:10 "They come here not just for jobs, but as international students." If we need these people because they are so well qualified in their field, why are we bringing them here for their education? Aren't they already "well qualified in the field?"
To be entirely fair, international students have to score pretty highly to get into the top colleges and pay way higher tuition fees. It’s gonna be tough to get the average bozo from Wyoming and supplement a top 1% international student.
@@riptyurass302 yeah unless your country relies on social class and doesn't have any entrance tests like mine....
It is because international students pay full price for tuition. Colleges want international students for the $$$.
I'm friends with a lot of international students turned foreign/H1B workers. When it comes down to it, it's the money. Half, if not most, of the Chinese students I know came from well off families in Beijing, Qingdao, and Guangdong.
International students pay $$$ to say they got a degree from the U.S. because it looks more prestigious back home. Colleges want that $$$. Businesses want people they can exploit for maximum profit meaning they can get double the work for similar or less pay.
International students only score higher because they prioritize memorization and not re-inventing the wheel (I used to teach English overseas. Think of the number of all the people who have studied English since Elementary-level 1st grade yet can't speak a lick of it even if their life depended on it). Easy to score higher then they're learning to beat the tests rather than actually learn the skill.
After working now in Tech as an IT Manager, what took a team of Indian IT guys 4 months to not even complete I did and gave them a resolution in 20 minutes of being on-site. Not because I'm exceptional (because I'm not), but because they (the Indian IT firm) wanted to get the most money for the least amount of work done and my ex-company wanted to get the work done while paying what they thought was cheaper (it was not). In fact the only reason I got that job was because the CEO was suspecting he was being played the same way he played them.
It's all about the money.
TBH been living in ATX for almost 2 years now and I'm exhausted with the amount of IT jobs going to H-2 visa "foreigners". And even in the workplace the cultural gap is frustrating at times. I've literally been falsely threatened for showing favoritism because I wasn't treating Indian people special (by my Indian supervisor) who would go to "his people" first for opportunities or with important information. I would even be skipped in the chain to my own subordinates. But that type of shit was normal since it was an Indian run tech company and most people are here on H-2. Me and other American born ex-employees are all convinced they only hire Americans so they can operate here with a higher profit margin and simultaneously provide work for their own.
I cant believe I carry the same last name of those who spilled their blood defending these lands man. I just dont fucking get it... History and reminders are in our fucking names...
Edit: I apologize man, your comment made me so mad. Just because we live in the West doesn't mean we haven't been through hell. Everyone can have their little group, but this treatment? insane.
Eastern Europeans are like this too. The eastern world in general has deeply ingrained patronage and nepotism
Wtf is ATX
@@shy404usernotfoundAustin, TX
I went to Costco today and thought I walked into India.
I agree and think that priority should be developing skills and education system before outsourcing. Let’s be honest our education and trade school system needs a massive overhaul. Cut out the nonsense and fluff