Volvo & VW say rear wheel drive is MUCH better than front in EV's
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- Опубликовано: 19 апр 2023
- Volvo & VW say rear wheel drive is MUCH better than front in EV's
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#volvo #vw #rearwheeldrive #evnews #evproductions
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I test drove a FWD BYD SUV. Every time I floored it, the front tyres would squeak. RWD deals better with high torque motors due to weight transfer.
Yes
I use to race a front wheel Ford Fiesta on the tracks of Sears Pt Raceway and Laguna Sega. I was a member of SCCA. SPORTS CAR CLUB OF AMERICA. One thing was has I went around turns the front end lifted and cause my tires to spin losing speed. When I raced my Datsun 510 B Sedan the rear end would go down with no slip at all. Mr. Viking, you are correct there is better grip from a rear wheel drive going around a turn. The one advantage of a front wheel ICE car is when we are racing around a turn bumping into each other, all I had to do was keep the throttle up and steer my car back on my racing line. Thanks to the Front wheel drive I was able to prevent big accidents.
Yes, the only advantage of fwd is that it will pull itself where the wheel pointed at.
And works even better with lsd.
I absolutely agree that rear wheel drive (or of course preferably 4-wheel drive) is much preferable to front wheel drive for EVs. We have both an MG4 and Kia e-Niro (and previously an MG ZS EV). The front wheel cars (e-niro and zs) were always wheel-spinning when you tried to use the amazing torque in the electric power train. The MG4 (rear wheel) simply puts the power straight onto the road, so it has a much higher apparent performance than the (same spec'd) e-Niro. So, for electric cars, front-wheel drive just doesn't work!
Hi Sam. I am a Mechanical Engineer with over 40 years of practice. Rear wheel drive is more efficient than front wheel drive. Generally rear wheel drive is safer than front wheel drive but not always as so many factors come into play like vehicle design and how much fuel is on-board, weight distribution and the list goes on. RWD EV’s are the best solution for all of the standard cars, 4 WD if you can afford it, especially with the battery pack in the floor. Sure there are things that can make a FWD drive more driver friendly, but not as good as a RWD or 4WD. Most of the Gizmo concepts for FWD are sales rubbish. It is cheaper to build a FWD than a RWD and that’s why the do it.
TY
$$$$$$$$$$$$..........Always the $$$$$$$$$$..........................Paul
Come July, I think I will no longer be a *"**#Patron_Member**"* . Drop down to "Just" a regular subscriber.
In Sam's early days, he would answer or get back to a comment like @Markbyerlee.
Now Sam just Blows people off or just ignore them.
Sam doesn't have to answer everybody, but maybe just or two or three people tops under each video.
At one point, I do believe Sam said he does have a staff, so that is what got me to happily send Sam a little money every month to help him pay his staff.
Let his Staff answer the questions or comments.
I hear a lot of handwringing about how these rwd EVs will perform in snow. Having driven front, rear, and 4 wheel drive cars in snow, I can say that tires make a bigger difference than drive configuration.
Front drive is a bit better for getting unstuck, but it tends to understeer when cornering at speed more than rear drive.
Most people who have 4wd don't actually need it, and only want it due to decades of marketing from car makers trying to sell profitable SUVs. A rear drive vehicle with good winter tires is quite capable.
Correct re 4wd, especially now with electronics in EVs which do instant torque control
So true tires are 90%.
Having said that 4W d in electric cars is extremely light and efficient and you can harvest more regen & the tires will last longer.
Front wheel drive in an ev is dangerous in slippery conditions.
@@whowhy9023 No. That is not a thing. In a sliding car the end that's heavy will end up in front. Having the front weigh more than the rear stops it from preferring to slide backwards, and the motor is a heavy object that's easy for the engineers to move to the front. If you have front wheel drive & a frunk and put 4 sand bags in the frunk you're way ahead. If it grips here and there you want all the thrust pulling where you want to go, not pushing into the ditch where the car is randomly most likely pointed. You really want the power on the wheels that steer. More complicated but worth it. It's not just hard to move, on ice and snow it's hard to steer. Having the thrust vector in the direction you want to go is a big deal when the damn thing is more interested in slipping, sliding, piling snow up in front, and sitting on top of the snow than in going anywhere. Once you crest a hill & see cars in the ditch & the car in front of you slides into the ditch with them & you understand what you're seeing & drive right by them, then you'll agree with me.
Your analysis is only valid for ICE cars with a front engine. In an EV with a flat battery pack within the wheelbase, RWD has all the advantages. Good winter tires only add to those.
Yes for ICE cars fwd is better in snow. BMW rwd aweful in the snow as the engine weight is over the front wheels. Also rear tyres on BMW are very wide. EVs are a different story. Better traction in snow from rwd.
Get right tires for the road, no matter what wheels are turning
Our 2019 Kona Electric is FWD (no AWD option). When we test drove a Hyundai Ioniq 5 RWD EV (on dry pavement only), we found it was less responsive when cornering, compared with our Kona FWD. In our experience, we much prefer FWD, as it tracks better . . . pulling you around turns, rather than pushing. Our Kona has way more than enough torque and acceleration in the FWD configuration.
We're interested in getting a second EV which will be AWD. . . however, we're also keeping our awesome FWD Hyundai Kona Electric!
We have driven in all kinds of weather (4 seasons) since 2019 here in southern Interior BC, Canada for a total of 70,000 km. When climbing in slushy/slippery winter conditions we have learned to turn off traction control; to prevent slowing down too much, as less and less power goes to the FWD to prevent tire spinning. Better to control tire spinning with the accelerator in those extreme conditions, by turning traction control off.
With the centre of mass being located behind the FWD tires, closer to the middle of the Kona Electric because of the heavy battery, winter traction when climbing steep hills can be a bit more challenging. On the other hand, with top quality winter tires, like our Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 Winter Tires, our FWD does very well. The R3s have recently been improved even more, with the latest Hakkapeliitta R5 Winter Tire.
When going downhill on slippery roads with FWD it's obviously best to ease back on the level of regenerative braking, to prevent slipping and loss of steering control.
Different opinion… Living in Eastern Canada with approximately 3-4 months of every year being the snow driving season, I have come to prefer Front-Wheel-Drive over Rear-Wheel-Drive when All-Wheel-Drive is not an option. The advantages of FWD over RWD when snow driving are:
1. Being pulled by the front wheels as opposed to being pushed by the rear wheels offers greater stability when traction is dicey. A RWD vehicle fishtails widely from side to side when the rear wheels are slipping - less of this with traction control but sometimes spinning the wheels is the only way to make progress. A similar FWD vehicle merely spins its wheels a bit more while it remains on course.
2. A FWD vehicle is easier to get un-stuck as the powered wheels can be turned from side to side to clear away snow that is restricting movement. Many times the little amount of snow that can be cleared in this manner permits enough rocking motion to occur so an escape can be made.
3. A FWD vehicle has an advantage when operating on a slippery road that is not flat side-to-side (excessively banked). The RWD slips sideways if the wheels lose traction. The same thing happens to a FWD vehicle, but this can be corrected as the powered wheels can be steered to compensate.
4. A front weight bias in FWD ICE vehicles allow better grip from the front axle. This also applies to the original VW Beetle; it was reasonably good in snow as it had a rear engine and RWD. This is not applicable for vehicle with a rear weight bias as may be the case with many EVs.
Apparently everyone has forgotten about the original VW air cooled version. The bug was very good in snow and easy on gas. I have seen it go up cobblestone roads in hills easily in wet or dry conditions when a Jeep had to engage 4 wheel drive.
Amazing little cars. Their heaters werent the best but they did get you where you wanted to go.
Similar to the old school air cooled or two stroke cars, everybody has apparently forgotten that every car has its limits (passive cooled Nissan Leafs). And that all drivers have a safe driving limit of 2-3 hours or have a serious risk of fatigue and falling asleep on the wheel.
Also friends of my, using this bug, put extra weight in the front (sand sacks) for better stability. (I'm talking about 50 years ago)
Totally, my clapped out rusty little Beetle used to be left on a steep snowy bank in -20C all day when I was at school, come back, fire it up, and chug straight up the bank while heavier front engined cars just slid all over the place.
light cars work better on snow.
Having lived in artic like conditions most of my life I've grown to apricate front-wheel drive. Front wheel drive simply does better in the snow. Other than going to all-wheel/four-wheel you can't beat it.
Unless you're trying to climb a steep hill.
@@dansanger5340no, rwd is unstable
@@dansanger5340 You can't climb a steep hill on ice and snow. That is not a thing. You either get a running start or get out and walk. If you have front wheel drive & a frunk and put 4 sand bags in the frunk you're way ahead. If it grips here and there you want all the thrust pulling where you want to go, not pushing into the ditch where the car is pointed.
@@tsamuel6224 sandbags in the frunk is very clever!
On my front wheel drive Odyssey, I couldn't make it up a slippery road with a few inches of snow. After trying everything else I turned around and went up the hill in reverse. Go figure.
Rear wheel is much simpler (thus cheaper) and a bit lighter.
the vehicles also have smaller turning circles.
The advantage of front in low grip environment is partly cancelled out by advanced electronic traction control/stability control/abs
Thx for the summary
The popular and cheap MG4 is also RWD. I've heard a lot of good things about its driven dynamic.
Pleased to have got one of the last BMW i3s made. As London gets 0-2 days heavy snow per year, very happy with RWD format for a fun EV driving experience.
A lot of the advantage of FWD has to do with the heavy engines weight over the front wheels aiding in traction. I remember driving my RWD Ford Mustang in the snow some 40+ years ago, wheels spinning and fishtailing!! I could see where RWD would be ok due to the more evenly distributed weight due to battery pack location.
That evenly distributed weight due to the battery pack can make a RWD EV behave like a mid-engine ICE car.
The most important reason to want FWD is packaging. It delivers more cabin space at lower cost compared to RWD. Engine and transmission can be assembled as a single unit before install in the car. Saves time and money in the production process. For vehicle dynamics RWD is almost always the superior solution.
@@hvh377 - For ICE cars, yes. For EVs, while there may be a differential, there is no "transmission", and the difference between FWD and RWD for an EV may be moot. My own ICE car is RWD mid-engine, and I'm addicted to the balanced handling.
@@daveinwla6360 We were talking ICE here. At least my response was to someone writing about his ICE vehicle.
EVs do have transmissions, but they are usually quite a bit simpler than the gearboxes mounted into ICE vehicles. Most have no selectable gears and no clutch, but not all and clutches are making a comeback in multi-motor EVs.
The EV gearboxes, though functionally simple, are relatively surprisingly large and heavy though, due to the very high torque output of electric motors.
Handling-wise the difference between FWD and RWD may indeed be less important for EVs, because EVs generally do not really handle all that well anyway. But I'd say that the difference will be very detectable to the driver, especially under hard acceleration. All the extra weight in an EV may make it even more detectable under those circumstances. Most 'performance' EVs will be AWD anyway.
And then there are always all the other reasons (outside driving dynamics) for selecting RWD or FWD: interior space, practicality, ease of assembly, etc.
@@hvh377 $$$$$$$$$$.............$$$$$$$$$$............Always about the money............Paul
It's all hunky dory till you drive on snow and ice. I spent most of my life in the upper Midwest of the US with rear wheel drive. There were lots of times when that was not fun a all. My first front wheel drive was around 2000 and I was stunned by the difference. If I lived in a warmer climate I would want rear wheel drive hands down. It's just more fun. Fish tailing a car (now called drifting) is a hoot, I grew up with muscle cars and they were lots of fun.
However with just rear wheel drive this reduces the amount of re-gen you can get due to breaking effect can mean locking up of rear wheels would happen so re-gen is reduced...
I will choose front wheel or all wheel to pull/steer me out of a snowbank. For California and Florida. Rear wheel is probably fine.
4 wheel drive is more efficient on EV’s as you need the regenerative breaking.
There are no gearboxes drive shaft etc so very little power is lost.
For pure efficiency and range 2 small electric hairpin motors are best.
Interesting! Had a M3RWD rental in Germany for 12 days. Absolutely flawless!
All logic as you mentioned favor the rear wheel drive and I agree 100%
I prefer the steering feel of RWD by far. Very happy to see RWD making a comeback!
Front wheel drive has a real advantage when it comes regenerative braking, rear wheel drive has to dial the regenerative effect way down to prevent locking the rear wheels.
LOL. Seriously? You've not heard that suspension string are capable of altering attitudes under weight transfer? That has been known for all my life, but you seem to be ignoring such basic engineering concepts.
if you say so.
BTW, regen is typically only responsible for harvesting about 30% of that kinetic energy, so it's a pretty irrelevant point anyway.
@@davidcolin6519
I guess then the front wheels don’t do the majority of the braking in your world either?
@@gerhardk98 If we are talking about emergency braking, then of course they do. But we're not talking about emergency braking, are we? We're talking about slowing the vehicle down by using the inertia of the vehicle to turn the motor and thus using it as a generator. I've been riding bikes for more than 40 years. Locking up the rear wheels on a downshift is much more likely on a bike, and even then it is such a momentary event that it only affects the bike for a (usually) imperceptible time. At the limit it can be a serious problem, but that is because of the nature of bikes.
You have to be really, really trying to lock up the rear wheels on a downshift in a car, and the electronics of EVs clearly allow EV makers to make this factor inconsequential.
Put it another way regen only manages about 30% of the power of the motor, so it is only 30% of the maximum accelerative power of the car. That is easily handled by the systems, and clearly doesn't affect the regen on RWD EVs. In fact, almost every single one of the EVs that have the most aggressive regen is RWD.
If this was all theoretical prognosticating, I would have a lot more sympathy for all these claims, but it's not. We already have plenty of EVs with both FWD, AWD and RWD to use as markers.
There is ZERO evidence that RWD has poorer regen than FWD.
@@davidcolin6519
I wonder why my motorcycle has two large front disks and one small rear disk?
@@gerhardk98 Maybe you should actually read my reply before you make disparaging remarks.
As I stated above, the regen from a RWD CAR is ENOUGH.
That is because, der, a car weighs rather a lot more than a f*cking BIKE.
Do you think that engine braking is more than you f*cking brakes?
Can you do a f*cking STOPPIE in a car?
Idiotic reply from a dolt who doesn't understand half the physics involved. That's why you're not a physicist and I am.
Rear wheel drive is cheaper. However, I live in southern Michigan. In a sliding car the end that's heavy will end up in front. Having the front weigh more than the rear stops it from preferring to slide backwards. On ice and snow rear wheel drive is a big step back in time. Been there, done that. Dumb as a screen door on a submarine. I'd much rather see the rear motor removed and keep the front. You really want the power on the wheels that steer. More complicated but worth it. It's not just hard to move, on ice and snow it's hard to steer. Having the thrust vector in the direction you want to go is a big deal when the damn thing is more interested in slipping, sliding, piling snow up in front, and sitting on top of the snow than in going anywhere. To hell with performance, the only motor and anything else that can add weight in front adds to the front wheel drive to makes it slide backward less. Of course, if the car is smart enough to apply slight reverse torque to the rear wheels, then the motor in back is better. All you want is to stay in control and you might wish for a snow bank to drive into to stop.
Rear wheel drive is a drag in snow country. Once they spin you are stuck. With FWD one can move the wheels around, a lot better chance to find some grip. Myself, I've driven AWD for over 25 years now, snow tires too!
FWD is a lot harder on the front tires too. Rear tires on a front drive car can last twice as long. It's not a good idea to use just one pair of wheels for all of the acceleration, all of the steering and 80% of the braking. Moving the acceleration to the back gives better handling and control. But dual-motor, all-wheel-drive will be my choice if I can afford it.
Tire rotation exists.
@@Snerdles Of course, that's the only way to compensate for it. But RWD cars get significantly more out of a set of four tires, with optimal tire rotation accounted for. (This assumes sane driving with no burnouts or drifting)
Anyone who has ever raced or pushed a car through corners at high speed will tell you that rear wheel drive cars have better handling dynamics. I recently sold a 1990 Volvo 740. I wish I had just rebuilt it. I loved driving that car. It was also way more predictable and controllable in Winter weather and slick conditions.
It rode nice to.
I got kind of excited when VW brought out the ID 4.
Rear wheels drive is top ( bmw i3) love it in curves
My first car was a 1964 Ford Cortina Estate Mk 1. 1500cc and rear-wheel drive. It also had a chassis, which would have helped with weight distribution. A very nibble and easy-to-drive car, even in wet or icy conditions. I had no problems controlling it in snow and ice. The turning-circle was excellent, and has never been matched by any of my front-wheel drive cars. The only problem with performance was stopping! It had all-round drum brakes which, on a car weighing in at half-a-ton, left something to be desired. So, with modern brakes, traction control and carefully distributed weight, I am looking forward to my first EV! Good news.
Not sure I agree here, I have a Kona EV with front wheel drive and I think regen is more efficient and effective in front wheel drive cars. I think small EV city cars might be front wheel drive.
Hopefully we'll get back a decent frunk now too. One of the great advantages of EVs over gas that seemed to be slipping away.
Probably because the extra cost isn't worth it. Customers are apparently happy to buy EVs without a frunk/froot. Maybe most customers don't really value it?
@@hvh377 frunks in modern cars are ridiculously small, I guess most of the spaces are for crumple zone.
A frunk like the one in old vw beetles.. now that’s more practical.
TY
Always thought the extra storage was a nice selling point.
This is an argument that has been made for a very long time with ICE cars. I remember having this same argument with my friend that was a racing enthusiast 20 years ago. For performance vehicles, sure, there are reasons to go rear wheel drive vs. front wheel drive. AWD will pretty much always be better, and more expensive.
The main reason people build FWD models was 2 fold: First, the engine was in the front and that reduced the need to bring power to the rear (i.e. it reduced parts and weight). Second, traction is better in snow and rain for FWD, not just because of the weight, but because of the physics of push vs. pull. We should remember though, why RWD was popular initially, it is simply that FWD is hard to do because that is where the steering is. So, sure RWD is easier to make, it is why bicycles and motorcycles are RWD.
You are correct that the traditional advantages of FWD are mostly negated with modern cars (especially electric cars) just due to modern electronics and traction control. However one thing you didn't mention, nor did the authors you quoted is regenerative braking. If you have a RWD electric car it will not be able to do as much regenerative breaking as a FWD electric car given that 80% of the breaking happens at the front wheels (applying too much braking to the rear wheels can be dangerous). It is possible to offset that with traction control, i would be curious to know if RWD electric cars shift more breaking to the rear wheels. Again, AWD is even better because you can capture breaking on all wheels.
For performance many will prefer RWD vehicles. For the majority of us that are not really interested in performance but safety and efficiency, FWD is a better choice IMNSHO. AWD is the best, and unlike what we have seen it is not necessary to sacrifice efficiency with AWD. The reason that is mostly the case is that if you make a RWD vehicle (or FWD) and add an engine to the other axel, yeah, that adds weight and thus reduces efficiency. However if you had a 200kW motor on a RWD vehicle, and made a AWD vehicle with a 150kW in the rear, and a 50kW in the front, it doesn't have to weigh more. So it is possible for dedicated AWD vehicles to be just as efficient in electric cars, unlike their ICE counterparts that must use differentials to send power to all the wheels.
In terms of slippery / icy traction conditions, an inhub front motors of only a few hp is all that is needed to move a vehicle much more readily. They could be light enough / cheap enough to not be a bother, but be of real benefit.
Mass slung with the wheels is always bad. Not a fan of in-hub wheel motors unless it contributes less slung mass than a CV joint.
Unsprung mass is bad. In wheel motors are horrible. Do some research on the topic.
@@davidbeppler3032 It all depends on the designer, as to power to weight. No gears required, design them light, and they will be. Design for very slippery conditions, not requiring much torque.
I like the idea of being able to turn off the front wheel drive motor on long hauls when not needed. Not sure I believe the BS on front wheel drive only as I have owned many and they perform well in ice and snow.
My current ice vehicle has all wheel drive and it feels planted on the road, I like that a lot. But being ice and AWD you sacrifice mileage.
Being able to turn all wheel on or off in electric would be good.
My bike is reardriven aswell 😊
Rear wheel drive works very good for dry pavement. Snow and ice conditions front wheel drive works better even with weight distribution more even. Where I live four wheel is even better.
great video. This kinda reminds me of ebike scooter and how when they first came out the motor was in thre front wheel, and people used to complain about the handling and traction (I know these are two different vehicles, but I think the thinking in them is the same) and e-scooter companies started putting the motor in the back wheel to help with traction and handling. I guess my point is that a lot of the thinking that goes into ebike and the like, also, apply to e-cars as well just on a bigger scale.
Yes.......Not that much thinking has really gone into cars....Mostly sales propaganda/$$$$$$$..............Paul
What bothers me with FWD is that the turning circle is affected by drive wheels, making it more difficult to predict. With RWD, correcting an over-steer is a lot easier than a FWD under-steer.
Very true. I drove a Polestar 2 with FWD. Aside from the horrible packaging, driving it in the rain makes it the slowest car off the line.
I hope that stability control takes care of issues that might otherwise arise with high levels of regen on a RWD EV. Or maybe they'll have a 'simulated handbrake turn' mode? Tight turning circles are great, but depending on castor angle can rapidly wear the shoulder of the tyre if used too often and too quickly. I speak as a former Triumph Herald owner.
How often do People make a tight U-Turn in Their Lifetime.??..........NOT a factor................Paul
All wheel drive the best for me and looking forward of buying one of those.
Great topic ✌️
Volkswagen does not currently sell a single FWD EV. VW's MEB platform is RWD or AWD. Never FWD. There is only one exception in the future plans: the ID.2 all is expected to be FWD only. Probably to create more usable luggage space without having to add a costly, but seldomly used frunk/froot.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
Again this was an interesting and informative video. I completely understand the use case senario for RWD EVs which you have described but...
I don't live in Australia where the winters are as warm as my summers or in Finland where once winter hits everything is frozen solid for most of the time.
I live in Northern Ontario where the Fall include a freezing rain season, Winter includes a freezing rain season called "The January Thaw" and early spring includes a freezing rain component. That means 7 months of the year I have expect the possibility of freezing rain. Driving a 300 hp RWD EV with instant torque would be the quickest way to parking in a rock cut on some highway 200 km from nowhere.
I have a little Mitsubishi with a small 2 litre 4 banger and All Wheel Control. I will be keeping this little gem until someone makes me a similar sized EV with AWD and a "Chill Mode" that can keep me from skidding off a highway covered in black ice where the only other thing keep you from going into a rock cut is the 5' high snow banks left behind after the last blizzard...Bahahaha!
Other than snow, absolutely agree on RWD, be it ICE or BEV. Just more capable of putting down torque. But wait, upcoming ID2 is FWD and will probably be VW's best seller, one would think. So what is this report on about?
Excessive acceleration does not interest me; I have no desire to burn rubber, participate in drag races or wrap my car around a telephone pole, no matter if someone else considers such driving experiences to be "fun." But reduced tendency to skid is important; that was what I noticed with my first (and subsequent) front wheel drive [ICE] car(s), which also had anti-skid braking systems. My wife and daughter have never driven rear-wheel drive cars (without anti-skid braking systems), so have never had to learn how to escape a skid; I have told them how, but have severe doubts that they paid attention. It makes sense that the change in weight distribution in an EV would affect control; thanks, Sam.
Enjoyed my previous Tesla 3 RWD more than current AWD version
Yes, agree. I had a Niro EV which was a wonderful car, but pulling out from a minor road on to a main road, the front wheels would often spin, too much torque,and torque steer, or maybe not controlled enough at low speed starts.
My latest EV, Kia EV6, is RWD and is much better, you can floor it and no problems.
My Fiat 500ev spun out alls the time, and fish tailed
Really the beauty with EV is via just on-board software control, an EV with at least two motors & esc can instantly change between FWD, RWD, AWD, 4WD or any combination.
EVs can have two electric motors at front and back connected to the input shaft of the differentials. Power is transmitted efficiently through the 3-phase electrical cables and not through complex, heavy, fuel inefficient additional drive-shaft that ICE vehicles need.
Its way cheaper and simpler to add a motor/esc than it is to add a drive shaft too.
Have you ever pondered why the front-wheel-drive Honda Civic Type R can keep up with the Tesla Model 3 Performance in terms of lap times at Nürburgring, despite the fact that the latter costs $10,000 more, has 100 more horsepower, a rear-wheel-drive system with substantially more torque, and a quicker 0-60 mph time of 3.1 seconds compared to the Civic Type R's 5.4 seconds?
Not sure if someone that associates driving emotion with burnouts will understand this
^M3 knows the deal.^
Here in Switzerland 🇨🇭 when driving in the alps on snow, it is incomparably safer with 4 wheel drives. Furthermore, in case of grip loss, you will very easily recover your trajectory. On a rear wheel drive only you will be in the deep (literally 😂) I prefer maximum safety over anything.
Regarding forward cabin, it has increased passengers injury risk due to lack of impact energy absorbing front bonnet. The ideal solution is in wheels 🛞 motors, freeing up the Frunk and Trunk. Additionally, if better motor wheels are later available, you could easily upgrade the car by replacing the wheels. Not mentioning the simplicity of torque management in this configuration.
There are advantages to in wheel motors, but a few big downsides.
1) If you hit a very nasty pot hole in a normal car, you need to replace a wheel ($500-1000). But replacing a motor may cost $5,000. 2) Unspring mass - makes the car less settled over rough surfaces.
I'd like to see if in wheel motors make a comeback, maybe they will be ultralight and ultra cheap.
Very Good
Sam, rwd works great on dry roads, but if you drive where it snows, it sucks. FWD, or AWD works far better in snow and ice here in Michigan ,where FWD is what must cars tend to be.
Great point Viking! I don't like FWD at all, lol.
Down side is less effective regeneration. But the upsides outweigh for packaging, tooling, better turning circle etc. Front wheel drive EVs are really optimal for using ICE derived designs
I suspect that the differences in region are tiny, and just as equally compensated by improved efficiency under acceleration.
In Canada, we get heavy snow. RWD is only good in winter if you have excellent winter tires on. You explained how EVs will handle it better but it must be tested.
EVs will handle RWD better but not as well as FWD. In a sliding car the end that's heavy will end up in front. Having the front weigh more than the rear stops it from preferring to slide backwards, and the motor is a heavy object that's easy for the engineers to move to the front. If you have front wheel drive & a frunk and put 4 sand bags in the frunk you're way ahead. If it grips here and there you want all the thrust pulling where you want to go, not pushing into the ditch where the car is randomly most likely pointed.
@@tsamuel6224 That is a very good explanation. Thanks.
MG is getting massive in the UK😊
If it wasn't for all the weight associated with the battery, electric cars would be, by far, some of the best handling cars on the market. You have so much freedom and control with electric motors.
I love everything about my Mini Cooper SE except the torque steer, which is pretty extreme and makes cornering less fun.
Simple. Don’t floor it every time.
Regarding VW and RWD - isn't the ID.2 coming with FWD only?
I,am not often a passenger in a car, but I always know when one new to me is RWD, because I get motion sickness.
Spent my childhood in the back seat of VW Beetles and Type 2 wagons. There were three disadvantages: (1) petrol fumes coming into the car, (2) engine noise and (3) even with flat engines, packaging wasn't specially brilliant. EVs do away with all three.
Of course its is better. The load transfers to the rear. Plus it will be cheaper If it is AWD, you could have Acceleration and one gear ratio on the rear, and another ratio on the front for cruising. when above 60, the rear clutch disconnects. Yes, its an additional part. but better than a transmission.
Well done.
Rear wheel drive cars do not have CV joints. This reduces the initial vehicle cost, improves efficiency and eliminates the maintenance cost of replacing CV joints. The advantages that FWD gives to ICE cars to do apply to EVs.
Even if I prefer rear ... due to the better weight distribution of BEVs front isn't as bad as in ICEs.
You forget to mention that there is the effect of dynamic load shift, which loads the read tires when accelerating. It means that they will have more traction. The front wheels struggle to transfer more than 200hp without traction loss. Even a 140hp diesel in the wet starts to loose traction already. …
Ah you did… Minute 10:00 😅
My MG4 has rear wheel drive. It drives beautifully.
$1,000 motor-electronics makes it a moot point. Have AWD. Also have AWS. Improves regen braking potential, also efficiency if one motor can be isolated. It’s a new world.
I welcome RWD on EVs as I love the feel. But, I can’t express the level of satisfaction you get once realising you avoided an accident because you in a split of a second jumped from braking to accelerating out of a curve because you knew you had a front wheel drive car. It’s against all rational, but it works.
Volvo used to be a Swedish company. Sweden gets snow in winter. Volvo is now a Chinese company, so much less emphasis on snow traction.
Rear wheel drive is better for performance (and perhaps packaging on an EV). Front wheel drive is still better in snow/slippery conditions. EV weight distribution and traction control may improve rear wheel drive performance in snow/slippery conditions, but it doesn't overcome the laws of physics.
Yep, BMW i3 ‘nailed it’ years ago!
AWD with option to disable please! Thank you!
How does this affect driving on icy or snow covered roads?
it can even out weight distribution so that the lightly loaded end doesn't wander on low-traction surfaces.
Matter of weight distribution, it's why you put weight in the back of a 2WD truck. Since EVs have that big heavy battery in the middle, they should do well.
Hold a Hotwheels car back wheels with thumb and fore finger. Twist the car slightly with your fingers. Note the control over the front of the car. No matter the steering direction of the front wheels, direct control from rear wheel drive will hold a direction - it's safer. Attempting to assemble a toy because a part wont fit - the neighbor walks by and asks why you don't use that piece over there - and it fits. Getting too focused will blind you to your surroundings. New to cars, Tesla clearly saw all the right parts, over there.
Cars were mostly front motor / rear wheel drive until the late 1970's. The change followed the 1970's feul embargo. So the main reason for the switch was to improve fuel economy by getting rid of the weight of the drive shaft and rear differential. This led to more expensive cars because the space under the hood became very crowded with motor and drivetrain. ICE car manufactures recognized and opted for rear wheel drive when fuel economy was not a problem.
I think probably smaller more efficient cars had something to do with it. FWD (with transversely mounted engines) is mostly chosen to maximise interior space, allowing for a smaller, more efficient body with the same interior space as the larger RWD car. I don't think removing the need for a prop shaft makes that much of a difference. The differential remains of course. A FWD car also needs a diff.
My toyota prius is good but not sure how that would be rear wheel drive? Now honda has a ecvt 80 mpg hybrid may be the future especially if they have plug power. The ev cars are getting a lot more range and i am sure they will be the future as range improves.
It all depends on weather conditions. I find it better a front wheel drive car when driving in heavy snow,
Front wheel drive will allow more aggressive regeneration braking. Most braking effort is with the front wheels, if you gave a powerful enough motor/generator the front motor should give back more energy before using the breaking system. Sam is usually correct, I don't think he is in this case.
I wonder how effective is the regen while braking in rwd EVs
All true. RWD is better to drive and has traction and handling advantages. BUT a key feature of EVs is regenerative braking and RWD EVs must rely soly on rear wheel braking to recapture energy. This is limited to very mild decelerations because of weight transfer to the front under deceleration, and because rear wheel only braking promotes instability (try a handbrake stop!). So RWD is unlikely to be more efficient. 4WD is optimal of course.
since the day of Audi Quattro , its known all wheel drive always trump .. and I can see future EV take up all wheel drive as the main engineering setup but with adaption / mechanism to decouple front axle to give rear wheel drive mode , front wheel drive is in itself an engineering setup primarily to made the car more compact and without the need for a fair size axle to the rear , facilitate easier cabin ( lower floor , more space ) and liberty to rear wheel suspension, but with EV , and advance of motor coupling , decoupling ( might be even individual wheel hub motor ) the setup is no longer a needed property when seen vs the all wheel drive setup
Hurray!! I love rwd🎉
This is silly, front wheel drive makes a lot of sense for smaller to mid range evs. You get a more boot space, you can brake regen much stronger, easier packaging in general, much better control in slippery conditions. Not every car is a sports car. Most cars don't need to be sporty at all.
Compared to most people under this video , you are paddling upstream 😮
( I am not saying you are wrong)
@@icosthop9998 well, it's not like you can do any research or even basic fact checking when you're pushing out 5+ videos a day... Most people just go along with whatever he says.
Working as Mechanic/Service technician for a full EV brand, which only builds RWD single motor or AWD dual/tri-motor, i must say that you're the only smart person from all the comments i read on this video. It's insane how stupid these people can be when they don't even know how tf an electric motor looks inside, or even what components are linked to it. I bet they don't even know the difference between a McPherson to a dual wishbone suspension. But okay. I'll continue laughing with the engineers commenting this video 😂
I wish the manufactures would go back to a solid rear axle in an EV form for some vehicles, especially SUVs and trucks. They have better more stable towing and better off road performance. The solid rear axle would be inherently more robust.
A 4 or 5 link suspension with coils or air bags on a solid rear axle unit would get us back to what we used to have for those vehicles.
Tesla locks the ability to drift with standard range rwd 3/y
Or positive framed. They don’t have the extra functionality of track mode that enables it
I have driven both. The difference is academic. Any minimally skilled driver can easily handle either.
Didn’t VW say the ID.2 would be front wheel drive at the reveal just a few weeks ago? 🤷♂️
Maybe Cord did it in the 40s but never driven one.
One reason that front wheel drive ICE vehicles do so well in the snow is that the drive wheels are under the heaviest part of the car, the engine. With skateboard batteries in EVs, the weight is evenly distributed across the entire vehicle. As more people start driving EVs, we will find out if this is still true for EVs. I drove a friends Tesla Model S and Y, and I have been spoiled for life as to what a car can be. My chevy volt PHEV is the fastest accelerating and best handling car I have ever owned.
Adding a clutch to the front wheels in an EV is for companies that don't use induction motors that allow the motor to spin without causing drag. This is why Tesla uses an induction motor in the front, and permanent magnet motors in the rear.
I’m not sure I would agree with you on your statement. I’ve been in a race with a Porsche 911 TwinTurbo Carrera, Lamborghini Gallardo, Corvette, ZR one Aston Martin DB nine add the Porsche 911 always took everybody off the line because it was all wheel drive
GM eliminated torque steer by using big positive offset wheels on a 2 tonne Oldsmobile Toronado in 1966.
I've been stuck in the snow twice with my RWD ID.4. Fairly certain I would have been fine if it was FWD. One of the reasons I'm ditching it.
Get a AWD Tesla. I did not slip all winter.
@@davidbeppler3032 Yeah, that's what I'm ditching it for. A MY is on order!
When I used to own gasoline fueled cars, FWD was all around preferable to RWD. EVs are a different situation due to better weight distribution and responsive traction control.
meanwhile back in reality, the FWD (Euro Spec) Honda Civic Type R retakes the Nurburgring Lap Record back from Renault with a time of 7 min 44 seconds.
Love the fact that most EVs are RWD. I am disappointed that the new gen Kona EV is FWD.
I have an i3 and would agree RWD is better.
Does this mean I should get AWD with my Aptera?
Rear drive in E.V.s eliminates the torque steer of Front wheel drive cars.EV motors in the rear are a fraction of the weight of ICE engines, so oversteer is less of a problem.... Also, any ICE cars of rear wheel drive, have a better turning circle due to ease of designing better increased steering lock, for better turning circle. Also, rear drive is better for towing & steep uphill work.
Car-heads know that RWD is the hot setup. You can steer the front wheels with steering and the back wheels with your foot.
Rear wheel drive - pushes the car, maby thats moore efficient
than dragging (spelling ???)
Front wheel drive, put a lots of stress to the drive shafts at the same time as the turn the car.
One good thing about all wheel drive is when you are braking using youre motors as generators.
pulling out of my icy driveway is much easier with front wheel drive, because the front gets off the ice sooner