AWD does nothing for "stopping", but everything for traction from a stop or going uphill. So if you live in mountain country, the way I do, you certainly do need AWD.
@@roxter299roxter7Don't know if you're joking or not but most every car out there, be it 2-wheel drive or 4-wheel drive, have brakes on all four wheels.
I live in Denver area and drive I-70 into the mountains at least twice a month all year long. I have a FWD Chevy Traverse that I have been running Arctic Claws for 5 seasons and Blizzaks for the last two seasons. I have never had problems in snow and ice. During the December to Jan of 2022/2023 snow storms, we drove to Bend, OR from here along I-70 then to Provo then across 84 through Idaho, then two lane roads for 150 miles from Ontario, OR to Bend. This was the best test for snow tires imo. We had snow most of the way until we got to Ontario, then the snow changed to sleet and then we had to drive on ice. We of course slowed down, and the driving was white knuckle, but we made it the 150 miles safely, seeing tractor trailers and other vehicles being towed out of ditches along the way. late last year, we put an order in for a Chevy Bolt EUV, which only comes in FWD and I got in an argument with someone who said we should have opted for AWD (or dual motor) living where we do. I told him it's not necessary as long as you have good snow tires. We opted not to put snows on the Bolt as we drive the Traverse in the mountains and the Bolt around the Denver metro area, plus EV's don't get as high mileage per charge in the winter (we knew that going into the purchase). Haven't been disappointed with either vehicle.
Big difference in performance between FWD with winters and RWD with winters. I had a Fusion PHEV with winters on it and thought it got around fine until I bought a AWD Mach E with winters it's a night and day difference.
1) You call this winter condition?!! This is early sping/late autum conditions where I live. 2) You are right about having good winter tires over AWD. They are more important. Change the tires when there's 3-4 mm left.
The passes here during the winter frequently only allow all wheel drive vehicles or vehicles with chains during snow storms. This information is fine for most areas but not every where.
Are you talking about Colorado or another state? Here in CO the law in the mountains during snow storms is AWD, FWD with snow tires, or any other drive combination with snow tires or traction devices (cables, chains, etc.)
I was expecting a real winter test, a comparison of a RWD EV and a AWD EV vehicles both equipped with 4 snow tires in at least 6 inches of snow. There was barely any snow on the roads you've shown. Everybody knows that snow tires perform better than 4 seasons tires in winter.
I think the fact that a lot of this information is already known is part of the point. Auto manufacturers are up selling to most customers with AWD bug it is not a necessity and it does not take 1,000 tests to know that.
You'd be surprised the number of people in our industry that don't understand, let alone the general public. We'd also love to do the test you asked for. And in a normal winter, we'd have that snow. But this winter, thanks to climate change, has produced next to zero snow.
@@ehhhsteve8582 I am used to driving in snow in the state of Quebec, Canada. Snow tires on all wheels are mandatory here from December 1st to March 15. I presently have a Mazda CX5 AWD and I'm thinking of getting a Kia EV6. A Kia dealer tells me that the weight is more evenly distributed in an EV than a regular ICE car. As such he says I wouldn't need AWD in winter. That's the reason I would have liked a direct comparison of a RWD EV and AWD EV in real winter conditions.
Good video, our son has an Odyssey with a separate set of winter tires which he changes when they go to their cabin in the snow. He says those tires work very well. Thanks for the video.
I feel like within the past 10-20 years marketing has really transformed people’s perception of what they may want or need for a given situation like winter conditions. Like mentioned tires are the most important aspect.
Also the RWD EVs I've driven have been more fun because there's not as much weight on the front axle so the steering is better. It's not your Miata good, but for an EV good. But EVs make AWD interesting because if you want the "straight line performance" selling point you need two motors. - Chad
@@EVPulse yeah that’s the thing about EVs. The powertrain performance is proportional to the number of axles driven unlike an ICE. That also influences people to want or need the AWD. I’d be very interested to driving both types (or like the Blazer EV all three configurations) to see how they differ in feel and performance.
You might not need AWD for winter driving, but with the Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5 and maybe other Hyundai E-GMP cars, the RWD only version doesn’t come with a heat pump, at least in the US. So the RWD winter range loss makes the heat pump equipped AWD models a better choice in cold areas, if this is something you care about. The difference in range in warm weather is negligible, unless you get the super high performance versions.
I live where we get 100 inces of snow per year. I drive a VW Jetta with FWD and winter tires. The car does fine 80-90% of the time but when we get a snow dump i recommend both AWD and winter tires. Trading in the Jetta for AWD next winter.
Winter tires also means you need another set of rims unless you really want to pay someone to swap tires on your car every winter season change. Also have to store the other tires. I'd rather have solid winter performing all seasons and FWD or AWD. Also F/AWD over RWD is often about the lack of control as to where the wheels go in a stop to start situation, I don't have to worry about my tail sliding out when trying to start moving in a FWD car.
that is of cause true but with a front motor you will seldom need more brakepower than you can get from the frontwheels. I have a rear wheel drive (bmw i3) with 50kW regen and i have had problems with rust for not using hyd. brakes enought.
The only reason I got AWD in my ID.4 was the extra power. Now that the 2024 model has pretty much the same power in its RWD model, I would go for that because the power is adequate and the range is significantly better. FWIW, I never had snow tires when I lived in Montana and I got around just fine with just RWD. Only used chains twice in 6 years, both times involved me driving in places I shouldn't have.
So no AWD to save money and then spend money on snow tires & rims. And you have to change rear tires in the spring and fall. Hum, I think I will stay with the AWD which has never got me struck, enjoy the better handling and acceleration. Yes winter tires do make difference. But if I were in an area with a ton of snow I would put winter tires or better tires on the AWD. To keep some of the range lost I went with 19” vs the larger wheels. At least in the ID4 the difference in acceleration between a RWD & AWD was night & day. I drove the RWD before I even knew the AWD would be released and I wasn’t impressed. After the test drive, I took the ID4 off my list. It wasn’t until 2 years later I decided to give the ID4 with AWD another shot after reading some reviews. It was a big improvement in acceleration, like driving a 6-cylinder vs a 4.
I guess the bottom line is that you might consider AWD worth the extra expense (up front and ongoing) in the more extreme parts of the performance envelope. Deep snow, ice on steep grades, things like that are one direction that can be extreme. The other big extreme is that you need maximum possible acceleration. For example, towing on a steep upgrade, or racing. Another slight benefit is in congested traffic, where you might save quite a bit of brake wear. But that would take a long time to accumulate, and if you're dealing with that much creeping along in rush hour conditions, the bigger concern might be time, accident risk, and the gradual turning of your brain into a puree. But yes, for most people the savings of not having AWD might be the more important terms in the equation.
I agree with your video and run Nokian R5 on my RWD Mach E CRT1 and they are perfectly capable in the snow here in Ontario, Canada. OEM 18 inch tires for Mach E are 225/60r18 XL 104. From my research, Michelin doesn’t make XIce Snows in 18 inch with the XL rating. What exact tire size are you running in this video for the Mach E.?
The tires being tested here are Michelin X-Ice Snows, size 225/60 R 18 with a 100 H load index. This size doesn't appear to be offered with an XL rating, but we are confirming with Michelin. For reference, the stock all-season tires on this Mach-E are Michelin Primacy A/S's, size 225/55 R 19 XL. -Ben
I had dedicated winter tires on my old FWD Volkswagen Jetta and could easily out accelerate AWD cars, it was nice. But here in Central Ohio, climate change has meant we just haven’t had much snow for the past decade and I no longer find the cost and time for true winter rubber worth it
I'll stick with AWD. A couple of issues with EV's... 1) 100% torque right from the line. Without AWD, the wheels easily break into a spin. Add a bit of slippery surface like snow, and you best learn to have a very light foot. 2) 50/50 weight distribution and RWD - the closer you are to complete balance, the more the a rear wheel drive EV will create over-steer on snow covered roads, inducing a spin. And, regardless of power source - AWD and 4WD get you moving forward on slippery surfaces. With 2WD, it's easy to get stuck such as in a parking space where it snowed for a few hours. Yes, proper tires for conditions is always a big help. But, if this is about EV's, that's really not the point.
I own a Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD, prior I had a Hyundai Ioniq 5 RWD. NEVER going back to an EV without AWD. No comparison in how much better the AWD handles and how much quicker it is. I used to live in Minnesota and would never buy any car with out AWD and would never buy an EV (horrible cold performance charging and range) if I lived there.
Putting “better” tires on the front axle is typically not advisable due to potential oversteer it can cause in emergency situations. Best to have all four tires be the same or a new or different pair of tires put on the rear axle.
Most people who can afford a $50,000 or more vehicle (like most of these new EVs), can definitely swing the wheels and tires. Plus, by not paying the extra couple of grand for AWD, you actually come out ahead. You know, in case you aren't a big RUclipsr who can afford the extra costs.
This video is wrong, yes winter tires help with cornering and braking but they don't help anywhere near as much as AWD for acceleration. You are actually better off to do AWD and all season tires than RWD and winter tires. One other food for thought if you aren't happy with the all season tires you can always buy a set of winters but no way can you install AWD on a RWD EV. The best scenario for snow is AWD with winter tires.
Sir, how dare you diss Circus Peanuts. 🥜🎪🥜 Talk trash about AWD (especially traction on demand) systems and the public's lack of winter tire knowledge all you like but the CP candies are sacrosanct!
There's a Europen video that pits an M3 with winter tires vs various AWD vehicles with all season tires beating them uphill on icy city streets to prove the validity of winter tires for winter seasons. Most people with AWD vehicles stick to there all season tires in the winter, because AWD.
The start of this video was EXTREMELY cringe. The volvo "winter" drive with only bare roads? A statement about how people could still stop well without all wheel drive? (AWD doesn't affect braking at all!) c'mon! just how dumb do you think your audience is??? Yes winter tires are 100% essential in all places that actually get snow/ice. But that doesn't mean you don't want AWD, If you've ever had AWD, you will know that in places that get serious winter conditions they make a HUGE difference. It's stupid to compare AWD with all seasons vs 2WD with winters. The comparison is AWD with winters vs 2WD with winters. And in THAT comparison, there simply is no comparison.
I have no real objections to the actual content: you need winter tyres. But, the thumb nail, title and intro is 100% absurd; 4WD makes a huge difference in snow and ice Sadly, just clickbait. Beneath you, IMHO
@EVPulse that's great, AWD is better. Or, maybe you should ask Tesla why they bother wasting their time on it. That way you can stop pretending to be armchair car engineers. 🤣🤣🤣
I certainly agree with winter tires. But in MN I’d still prefer to stick with AWD and add winter tires.
AWD does nothing for "stopping", but everything for traction from a stop or going uphill. So if you live in mountain country, the way I do, you certainly do need AWD.
I guess that means that 2 wheel brakes are better than 4 wheel brakes? It’s all about traction. All wheel drive with winter tires much better.
@@roxter299roxter7Don't know if you're joking or not but most every car out there, be it 2-wheel drive or 4-wheel drive, have brakes on all four wheels.
I live in Denver area and drive I-70 into the mountains at least twice a month all year long. I have a FWD Chevy Traverse that I have been running Arctic Claws for 5 seasons and Blizzaks for the last two seasons. I have never had problems in snow and ice. During the December to Jan of 2022/2023 snow storms, we drove to Bend, OR from here along I-70 then to Provo then across 84 through Idaho, then two lane roads for 150 miles from Ontario, OR to Bend. This was the best test for snow tires imo. We had snow most of the way until we got to Ontario, then the snow changed to sleet and then we had to drive on ice. We of course slowed down, and the driving was white knuckle, but we made it the 150 miles safely, seeing tractor trailers and other vehicles being towed out of ditches along the way. late last year, we put an order in for a Chevy Bolt EUV, which only comes in FWD and I got in an argument with someone who said we should have opted for AWD (or dual motor) living where we do. I told him it's not necessary as long as you have good snow tires. We opted not to put snows on the Bolt as we drive the Traverse in the mountains and the Bolt around the Denver metro area, plus EV's don't get as high mileage per charge in the winter (we knew that going into the purchase). Haven't been disappointed with either vehicle.
Big difference in performance between FWD with winters and RWD with winters. I had a Fusion PHEV with winters on it and thought it got around fine until I bought a AWD Mach E with winters it's a night and day difference.
1) You call this winter condition?!! This is early sping/late autum conditions where I live.
2) You are right about having good winter tires over AWD. They are more important. Change the tires when there's 3-4 mm left.
We had started planning this video in November and then winter never happened.
Yeah I heard about that. @@EVPulse
The passes here during the winter frequently only allow all wheel drive vehicles or vehicles with chains during snow storms. This information is fine for most areas but not every where.
Are you talking about Colorado or another state? Here in CO the law in the mountains during snow storms is AWD, FWD with snow tires, or any other drive combination with snow tires or traction devices (cables, chains, etc.)
I was expecting a real winter test, a comparison of a RWD EV and a AWD EV vehicles both equipped with 4 snow tires in at least 6 inches of snow. There was barely any snow on the roads you've shown.
Everybody knows that snow tires perform better than 4 seasons tires in winter.
I think the fact that a lot of this information is already known is part of the point. Auto manufacturers are up selling to most customers with AWD bug it is not a necessity and it does not take 1,000 tests to know that.
You'd be surprised the number of people in our industry that don't understand, let alone the general public.
We'd also love to do the test you asked for. And in a normal winter, we'd have that snow. But this winter, thanks to climate change, has produced next to zero snow.
@@ehhhsteve8582 I am used to driving in snow in the state of Quebec, Canada. Snow tires on all wheels are mandatory here from December 1st to March 15.
I presently have a Mazda CX5 AWD and I'm thinking of getting a Kia EV6. A Kia dealer tells me that the weight is more evenly distributed in an EV than a regular ICE car. As such he says I wouldn't need AWD in winter.
That's the reason I would have liked a direct comparison of a RWD EV and AWD EV in real winter conditions.
@@EVPulse Thanks anyway for the test. Your channel is very interesting. Keep the information coming. Upvoted.
We're also size constrained, too. A channel our size doesn't exactly have the budget to do some of the larger scale testing we'd like to do.
Good video, our son has an Odyssey with a separate set of winter tires which he changes when they go to their cabin in the snow. He says those tires work very well. Thanks for the video.
I feel like within the past 10-20 years marketing has really transformed people’s perception of what they may want or need for a given situation like winter conditions. Like mentioned tires are the most important aspect.
Also the RWD EVs I've driven have been more fun because there's not as much weight on the front axle so the steering is better. It's not your Miata good, but for an EV good. But EVs make AWD interesting because if you want the "straight line performance" selling point you need two motors. - Chad
@@EVPulse yeah that’s the thing about EVs. The powertrain performance is proportional to the number of axles driven unlike an ICE. That also influences people to want or need the AWD. I’d be very interested to driving both types (or like the Blazer EV all three configurations) to see how they differ in feel and performance.
You might not need AWD for winter driving, but with the Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5 and maybe other Hyundai E-GMP cars, the RWD only version doesn’t come with a heat pump, at least in the US. So the RWD winter range loss makes the heat pump equipped AWD models a better choice in cold areas, if this is something you care about. The difference in range in warm weather is negligible, unless you get the super high performance versions.
I live where we get 100 inces of snow per year. I drive a VW Jetta with FWD and winter tires. The car does fine 80-90% of the time but when we get a snow dump i recommend both AWD and winter tires. Trading in the Jetta for AWD next winter.
Winter tires also means you need another set of rims unless you really want to pay someone to swap tires on your car every winter season change. Also have to store the other tires. I'd rather have solid winter performing all seasons and FWD or AWD. Also F/AWD over RWD is often about the lack of control as to where the wheels go in a stop to start situation, I don't have to worry about my tail sliding out when trying to start moving in a FWD car.
What if instead of a winch, it's a grappling hook you can just shoot at things to get unstuck and not have to bug anyone for a hookup?
Craig, the more drive motors an EV has the more energy can be recovered during brake regen. Also, more motors heats the EV battery more in winter.
And dual motor EV's are just plain more fun with faster acceleration and more power.
that is of cause true but with a front motor you will seldom need more brakepower than you can get from the frontwheels. I have a rear wheel drive (bmw i3) with 50kW regen and i have had problems with rust for not using hyd. brakes enought.
Yes, winter tires are better than 4-season tires in the winter. And yes, AWD is better in winter too. So I drive AWD with winter tires here in Norway
Interesting take. Very good information.
Thanks!
@@EVPulseYou are most welcome sir & your team,much respect.!
The only reason I got AWD in my ID.4 was the extra power. Now that the 2024 model has pretty much the same power in its RWD model, I would go for that because the power is adequate and the range is significantly better. FWIW, I never had snow tires when I lived in Montana and I got around just fine with just RWD. Only used chains twice in 6 years, both times involved me driving in places I shouldn't have.
So no AWD to save money and then spend money on snow tires & rims. And you have to change rear tires in the spring and fall. Hum, I think I will stay with the AWD which has never got me struck, enjoy the better handling and acceleration. Yes winter tires do make difference. But if I were in an area with a ton of snow I would put winter tires or better tires on the AWD. To keep some of the range lost I went with 19” vs the larger wheels. At least in the ID4 the difference in acceleration between a RWD & AWD was night & day. I drove the RWD before I even knew the AWD would be released and I wasn’t impressed. After the test drive, I took the ID4 off my list. It wasn’t until 2 years later I decided to give the ID4 with AWD another shot after reading some reviews. It was a big improvement in acceleration, like driving a 6-cylinder vs a 4.
Anyone try the Michelin cross climate on a rwd Tesla? These are all weather not all season. Why doesn’t the mustang ev have a heat pump?
I guess the bottom line is that you might consider AWD worth the extra expense (up front and ongoing) in the more extreme parts of the performance envelope. Deep snow, ice on steep grades, things like that are one direction that can be extreme. The other big extreme is that you need maximum possible acceleration. For example, towing on a steep upgrade, or racing. Another slight benefit is in congested traffic, where you might save quite a bit of brake wear. But that would take a long time to accumulate, and if you're dealing with that much creeping along in rush hour conditions, the bigger concern might be time, accident risk, and the gradual turning of your brain into a puree.
But yes, for most people the savings of not having AWD might be the more important terms in the equation.
I cannot imagine anyone driving in the snow without caterpillar tracks. i did get my Mach-e with two wheel drive as I wanted the extra range.
Same as the owner of the Mach-E on our team in this video.
FWD cars with winter tires often simply can't get up the hills that AWD cars easily can
I agree with your video and run Nokian R5 on my RWD Mach E CRT1 and they are perfectly capable in the snow here in Ontario, Canada. OEM 18 inch tires for Mach E are 225/60r18 XL 104. From my research, Michelin doesn’t make XIce Snows in 18 inch with the XL rating. What exact tire size are you running in this video for the Mach E.?
The tires being tested here are Michelin X-Ice Snows, size 225/60 R 18 with a 100 H load index. This size doesn't appear to be offered with an XL rating, but we are confirming with Michelin. For reference, the stock all-season tires on this Mach-E are Michelin Primacy A/S's, size 225/55 R 19 XL.
-Ben
Thanks for checking. The stock tires on the california route 1 are 225/r18 XL 104 primacy’s.
Nokian is a wonderful Finnish manufacturer. Excellent products.
I had dedicated winter tires on my old FWD Volkswagen Jetta and could easily out accelerate AWD cars, it was nice. But here in Central Ohio, climate change has meant we just haven’t had much snow for the past decade and I no longer find the cost and time for true winter rubber worth it
Winters in Ohio aren’t what they used to be. - Chad, waving from northwest Ohio
I'll stick with AWD. A couple of issues with EV's...
1) 100% torque right from the line. Without AWD, the wheels easily break into a spin. Add a bit of slippery surface like snow, and you best learn to have a very light foot.
2) 50/50 weight distribution and RWD - the closer you are to complete balance, the more the a rear wheel drive EV will create over-steer on snow covered roads, inducing a spin.
And, regardless of power source - AWD and 4WD get you moving forward on slippery surfaces. With 2WD, it's easy to get stuck such as in a parking space where it snowed for a few hours.
Yes, proper tires for conditions is always a big help. But, if this is about EV's, that's really not the point.
AWD and 4WD are rarely needed unless you live in area with heavy snow and ice AND steep grades.
Many BEV you have to choose 4wd to get a good towing capacity.
I own a Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD, prior I had a Hyundai Ioniq 5 RWD. NEVER going back to an EV without AWD. No comparison in how much better the AWD handles and how much quicker it is. I used to live in Minnesota and would never buy any car with out AWD and would never buy an EV (horrible cold performance charging and range) if I lived there.
This may seem like a silly question, but is there a benefit to putting winter tires on the front wheels of a RWD vehicle?
It can help with stopping once those rear snows have got you moving.
Also you'll have better control directionally with front snow tires.
Yes. You should have them on all four. Stopping and steering are done by the front wheels and traction is required to do that.
Putting “better” tires on the front axle is typically not advisable due to potential oversteer it can cause in emergency situations. Best to have all four tires be the same or a new or different pair of tires put on the rear axle.
I wouldn't say that AWD is needed only on winter. You can get stuck on country roads even after heavy rains in spring or fall.
I sold my bolt because it wasn't an all wheel drive. Torque steer at 60 mph when passing sucks.
Glad I live far enough south where winter tires are not needed.
I live so far south I don't even know what snow and ice is Australia. We have it but just for skiing not to live there.
Not everyone has a RUclips channel to help pay the $2000 extra cost of winter tires and rims and the cost to change them over each season.
Most people who can afford a $50,000 or more vehicle (like most of these new EVs), can definitely swing the wheels and tires. Plus, by not paying the extra couple of grand for AWD, you actually come out ahead. You know, in case you aren't a big RUclipsr who can afford the extra costs.
Craig was spotted covered in Ranch Dressing.
That's on the EV Pulse OnlyFans channel.
TBBH I'd rather see ranch dressing on the road than on my food.
So. Do you feel that getting winter tires is a good idea? You failed to make that clear.
It still smells like Ranch, Diesel, and Old Bay.
I really like him, what is his name?
This video is wrong, yes winter tires help with cornering and braking but they don't help anywhere near as much as AWD for acceleration. You are actually better off to do AWD and all season tires than RWD and winter tires. One other food for thought if you aren't happy with the all season tires you can always buy a set of winters but no way can you install AWD on a RWD EV.
The best scenario for snow is AWD with winter tires.
Sir, how dare you diss Circus Peanuts. 🥜🎪🥜 Talk trash about AWD (especially traction on demand) systems and the public's lack of winter tire knowledge all you like but the CP candies are sacrosanct!
Craig has eclectic tastes.
It is clear you have never driven a car on snow uphill but decided decided you know enough to make a video about not needing AWD…
There's a Europen video that pits an M3 with winter tires vs various AWD vehicles with all season tires beating them uphill on icy city streets to prove the validity of winter tires for winter seasons. Most people with AWD vehicles stick to there all season tires in the winter, because AWD.
Have you driven a 2WD car with winter tires? You do have more grip than 4Wd cars with all-season tires.
@@paulgoudfrooij6561 Yes I have, Boxster with winter tires and a Cayenne with all season tires. I know the difference.
@@GG-si7fw NOBODY here in Norway uses all season tires in winter. Obviously the AWD cars are far better at getting up hills in winter.
I drive my Miata in such weather. Duh!
The start of this video was EXTREMELY cringe. The volvo "winter" drive with only bare roads? A statement about how people could still stop well without all wheel drive? (AWD doesn't affect braking at all!)
c'mon! just how dumb do you think your audience is???
Yes winter tires are 100% essential in all places that actually get snow/ice. But that doesn't mean you don't want AWD, If you've ever had AWD, you will know that in places that get serious winter conditions they make a HUGE difference. It's stupid to compare AWD with all seasons vs 2WD with winters. The comparison is AWD with winters vs 2WD with winters. And in THAT comparison, there simply is no comparison.
I have no real objections to the actual content: you need winter tyres.
But, the thumb nail, title and intro is 100% absurd; 4WD makes a huge difference in snow and ice
Sadly, just clickbait. Beneath you, IMHO
Go ahead and have your non-4WD EVs in the city, I live VERY rurally in quite mountainous terrain, so I NEED 4WD. Stay in your little condo.
You probably have Awd on your Ev. LOL.
The Mach-E in this video is owned by a member of our team and I can 💯 guarantee to you it’s a RWD model.
@EVPulse that's great, AWD is better. Or, maybe you should ask Tesla why they bother wasting their time on it. That way you can stop pretending to be armchair car engineers. 🤣🤣🤣