ByuN vs MaxPax ◆ ESL SC2 Cup ◆ StarCraft 2
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- StarCraft 2 Tournament - ESL SC2 Cup 173 NA - Byun's impeccable bio ball micro faces off literally hundreds of zealots in this epic Protoss vs Terran.
StarCraft 2 Legacy of the Void - ESL SC2 Pro Tour NA Cup 173 - ByuN (Terran) vs MaxPax (Protoss)
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ByuN's refusal to rebuild SCVs is so funny. At one point MaxPax had like 80 probes to ByuN's 18 SCV and ByuN kept attacking as if nothing happened lol.
Mules + most efficient units in the game = don't need workers
@@PraiseYeezus +medivacs healing units to full, which protoss shields don't do
@@cathulionetharn5139 wanted to write exactly what you and @femio pointed out.
@@PraiseYeezus mules don't mine gas.
Now you know.
@@PraiseYeezus cool now add scvs lmao
"That Widow Mine micro from Byun, just incredible - when he placed it down and burrowed it and it continues gaining such value."
lmao it's nice to hear a caster who hates that unit as much as I do
Ah Widow Mines and Ghost, two of the most hated unites in Starcraft 2 if your a Protoss
@@williamking331 and Zerg
@@CptMoe-nq8mi yeah
it’s kind of insane how much better bio is than gateway units. it would be nice if gateway units could fight at least a little without getting completely destroyed
I have to think that in game one, with that kind of economy, teching carriers just had to be the correct move. Then again, Byun is so friggin aggressive that I'm not sure you can get away with it cause he's a madlad sitting on 30 svcs and even his mules can't mine enough fucks for him to give.
He should have just switched back to colossus as soon as he killed the Vikings since he knew he had a huge eco advantage.
Tempests to snipe medivacs would have worked too
@@justsomeguy1671 Tempests are garbage, they are extremely expensive, require very expensive tech and contribute nothing in fights, probably the worst toss unit after void ray and mothership
G1 feelt like Max lose momentum after the misclick with the disruptor. he was not the same after. that's real emotionnal damage here.
Also I think he neglicted to use more of the protoss toolbox. i think a few stasis here and there could have turned the tides against the bioball. A terran can't dodge stasis AND disruptors shots. Disruptors can't be the only spellcaster unit against someone like ByuN.
Also, why i don't see psy storms anymore ? did this spell was nerfed too much or removed ?
Edit : at least he focused on air superiority on G2 with much better success !
Same as it always was, Templar got a bit of a move speed buff actually. My theory is that while less consistent, if a Disruptor ball connects, it guarantees a kill against some Marines or Marauders. A Storm, however, just burns Medevac energy. Unless you can hound a bioball with like 3 or more consecutive Storms, it is unlikely to actually kill anything.
Max rolled over almost all Terrans with this playstyle - constant Disruptor ball spam, Zealots and DTs everywhere.
Buyn here just does micro miracles
He is not called best micro player for nothing.
Somebody like uThermal would have had floor mopped with him - Max did that many times actually.
Its not a coincidence that Buyn have not build A SINGLE PF. He knows what would have happened.
@@Appletank8 Medivac doesn't outheal Storm. Also first tick of Storm hit really hard. To clear the area from Marines with Storm you need to land 2 Storms on them.
@@skipperg4436 By “Outheal” I meant once all of Terran’s units have retreated, they can be healed up. If a unit eats a Disruptor ball, they need to go buy a new one. Storm is also not capable of killing a Marauder that doesn’t move without two full Storms, so if they run out early they’ll need even more Storms, which may be difficult with the threat of EMP.
@@Appletank8 Why don't we see high templar just for Feedback on medivacs?
This may be ignorant, but this series made me think of why I never see protos players use the combo of force field (to corral enemy units) + disrupter attack. I feel like that combo would bang, but never see it happen…
In game number 1 it seems that if Max just attacked bio ball in the back with 2 dozens of zealots instead of suiciding them in already empty mineral line he would have sandwiched Terran army and won.
Or something more funny like stasis trap behind T army
Disruptor is such a dumb unit...op in low Ranking almost useless in high Ranking...a unit like this should not exist
Wow! The first game is just....
Byun might not be winning as much these days but he's definitely still a beast!
"This game should have ended 10 minutes ago, and I'm not sure which way..."
Me: Wait, we're still on game 1!?!😮
17:40 "por que no los dos" Nice spanish XD
Doesn't "fusillade" mean throwing twisty pasta at your enemy??? 😋
Yum!
God Max had 2-3x more probes for a majority of the game and was more or less matching Byunn in strait up fights and he just kept on swinging.
They really need to nerf mules again, it’s just disgusting to watch someone so far ahead economically for nearly 20 minutes not able to close out the fight.
To those who would say Max Pax was trading badly nearly all of that was tied up in Zealot diving the SCVs.
In most of the skirmishes both sides were trading pretty evenly.
They want to keep terran OP because investors and influencers who don't know about Starcraft will default to playing the race the looks like Call of Duty
😂 ya right nerf mules. Maybe maxpax could have switched to something that actually worked.
Maybe air? Tempest a couple to handle the medivacs would have won him the game easily.
Mules are like what worth 3.3 scvs? OP how.
Max's army was countered by rauders he kept making the same army because he was relying on resources to win, playing toss as though he was zerg. Doesn't work against someone like Byun.
I’m Not so much into the starcraft mechanics but I dont understand how its possible that a terran can have half the workers for half the game and still having constantly more units on the field. Did maxpax suck or are mules just so op?
A combination of every op Terran unit. The widow mine/liberator defense was incredibly valuable. The stim and dodge bio ball was the best thing about that game though. And there was no other way to play it.
If Byun can keep his units from outright dying, they can essentially be brought back to full by the medivacs, so he doesn't have to rebuild, meaning that he doesn't need as much income. Compare that to the zealots yoloing into the mineral line with no expectation of survival, each costing 100 minerals. That's why it was so critical that the disruptors never landed - there's no healing from that. Mules help, but it's the insane healing/endurance of bio that really shines in those little skirmishes.
max pax lost mining bases so basically the workers weren't mining
Nah Mules are IMBA. You kill his workers allows him to build a massive death ball mules are handicap for terran.
ByuN's win rate hasn't been so great since IEM. I think part of it is that top players aren't so afraid of him anymore. A nice adjustment to playstyle in game 2 for MaxPax and the hard fought loss of game 1 becomes a nice win in game 2. And then a quick third game cheese is a classic way to end it.
I'm surprised MaxPax tapped out the second match. His economy was in ruins, but he still had double ByuN's army and was winning every head-on battle.
Colossi vs Terran seem frikkin weak as hell. Every time I see someone field Colossi against Terran, Terran just makes Vikings and down go the Colossi, no fuss no muss. I feel like they need an anti-air attack at minimum, even if it's not very strong. Kind of ridiculous that such a supposedly imposing unit is so weak.
love when people complain how disruptor is op... i guess we can nerf it a little bit more... and then start complaining about zealots huh? nah lets not focus on anything else... jeez imagine protos playing with 40 less workers... you can gg imeadiately.... lets click stimpack and nuke everything... in case mules or emp cant carry us lets just increase damage x times what a joke of a balance
16:15
Lamo, look at Winters face. He hurt himself with that pun :D
Mules are so broken.... byun play like 15 minutes with -30 workers and he was fine 😂 i mean i know his cost eficiency is insane but at 1 point he was on 17 scv and keept it like 5 mins under 20 !! Mules are insane
Protoss is kind bad right now, isn't it?
I can just imagine diamond terrans complaining about having to dodge disruptor shots while they have an energy-based, instant cast ability that wipes out protoss shields before the battle even starts.
i noticed in game 1 that byun just stopped producing any splash units ? Can the T army outdps the protoss army even with upgrades ?
was actually surprised Byun tapped out in game 2. No economy didn't seem to stop him in game 1. Nice cheese at the end from Maxpax cause he wasn't going to win another macro game against Byun
Que quesero es el MaxPax, a macro Byun le gana bien. Saludetes
Waking up to a Winter cast is the best start to my morning.
you can afford 5 rax on two base right? but usually terrans dont drop them until after the third is dropped?
I have 1 question. Are byuns lips really that color? or did you do that?
First game was dumb. It's like watching Mayweather vs Pacquiao, Mayweather always running away.
If I have to watch something like that on every Terran vs Protoss I'm not watching it.
Yeah its Caus all about that stupid SH it disruptors...a unit that forces the full game to a hit and run game should not exist...this dumb unit just should get removed
9:26 did you just reference Abraham Lincoln?
gotta love the thumbnails when it comes to Protoss lol
dont know why maxpax dont add high templar, storm is more of a sure fire than nova ball but again maxpax is king of protoss so he knows better ;)
emp
@@kkllaauussss1983 feedback
@@bongkem2723 EMP > Feedback
@@theNefariousNoogie depends who shoot first
Removing disrupters would buff protoss...
Those mines at 23:50 ... resulted in the death of 24 supply
My guy. I was so bored. Then bam. Awesome sauce!
Why no HT/Warp Prism? It's difficult to micro but it's harder to dodge than Disruptor balls imo.
Storm doesn't kill shit. Chip damage vs bio is pointless because medivac can heal forever
Fair enough for normal play but he was out of energy on his medivacs this game for a solid 3 or 4 min so some damage is better than no damage was my thought.
That first game was one of the greatest displays of endurance by Byun I've seen in sc2. Keeping his meager economy alive by a constantly maneuvering, vigilant bioball. Incredible!
It was a display of skill backed by an imbalance of mules.
Seems like some pheonix with upgrades would be good in many situations.
The problem with that idea is that every Terran unit in the game hard counters phoenix. (I'm being a little dramatic) but that's the reason why protoss players don't build air units vs terran.
Phoenix is the worst air-to-air unit, even mutalisks that take bonus damage from phoenixes can win in most situations because they are cheaper and don't need queued production.
Against terran they just cease to exist the moment they go in ghost/marine range. Phoenix dealing 5 damage versus 1 armor medivac means that they take an eternity to kill anything
@@laureloneiros1500 Mutas lose vs phoenix in more or less equal numbers. Unless you dont micro phoenix at all. They straight up counter mootas.
idea for helping the disruptors in the late game :
research option for adding 10% (or the odd number equivalent)
disruptors skill level did go up when they shrunk the radius but it feels like a soft breeze instead of being a viable option. it could also be that the pros make it look like that.
Ok, *you* try splitting perfectly against it 100+ times in a row. Meanwhile, I'll see if I can not shoot myself in the face like Maxpax did 5% of the time
Disruptors are ok. Imagine if instead of 4, maxpax had 5,6,7 of them?
He could zone out Byun and destroy some bases. But he should have made a couple tempests when he had the resources, to snipe out those medivacs
Make it so they can turn invisible, auto connect even if you aren't looking at the screen, have half the cost, and build 2 at a time.
@@justsomeguy1671 except for those times when he had 5, 6, 7 of them and Byun still danced around it all
@@JollyGreenWizard I don't remember him having 7 or 6, maybe 5. Be that as it may he had a ton of resources at one point and got lazy plain and simple.
Should have teched up to air, the protoss's most powerful units. Two Tempests to snipe medivacs he'd have won really easily, correct me if I'm wrong about that lol.
39:57 damn that joke could have really been a good one too.
Thanks for making my day a little bit better
salty taste in his mouth. god damn XD
Terran Bio & Mules imba! Need nerf!
Screams in "My Life For Aiur"
Good match, terrans are imba tho, too much
Terran needs to get nerved, maybe not in power but in skill level. There is just too much room for error.
Um mules t had no workers and still won that's dumb
@WinterStarcraft Wayne vs Serral from the regionals was an absolut banger. Sincere recommendation.
Come back to Planetside 2!
Bio is still imba. Wow what a shock.
just dont get hit :D but hit the like!
Extremely epic games!!!
no views?!?! didnt even know that was possible lol
Sir, Byun's ghosts do not scamper, they saunter.
Team Terran
Why aren’t Protoss using storm any more? Now that disrupters are nerfed storm should be the obvious new splash as colossus are to fragile
I assume because templars move so slowly.
Some as quick as Byun will just find a way to backstab and snipe then as the toss sent moves around the map.
If maxpax had made a couple tempests he could have shut Byun down by killing the healing of his army.
300 zealots = 30000 minerals... That's a lot of minerals.
Terran Suck OP
Nice edit 😉 54:10
Sometimes Im late, but I feel like I’m just in time for this one
delete terran
Yeah but that Blink micro in game three was insane
maxpax kinda threw that first game
Really fun series. Thanks, Winter!
🎉🎉🎉🎉
i wish maxpax would have the balls to go 2 robo colossus instead of switching to disruptors in game one. Yes the vikings and libs were countering them, but its was forcing byun to engage which really benefits +3 zealots. And he had such a supply and eco lead that throwing colossus away for guaranteed damage wouldve helped him so much more
i dont think he had the gas for that, you need a certain amount of stalkers too for a colossus heavy composition to work, I think the real problem was just the shape of that map, Byun was aggressive in all the right ways to deny extra bases from staying up and I'm not sure any thing maxpax could have done would have realistically stopped that. Even carriers probably would have given Byun time to take a 4th and produce vikings out of a second star port. I think at that level of play you just can't win a macro game on that map as protoss at least thats how it looks to me
Or he could've added just several HT to Storm Vikings, kinda like Protoss always dealt with Vikings.
@@BinxyBrown I mean he found the gas for 2 robo disruptor. And he was on 5-7 bases throughout the middle and end of that game, he definitely couldve found the gas for 2 robo colossus. With +3 attack and his "gatewayman" style all he needed was to trade out on byuns side of the map and spam collosus. I think teching into anything else, especially disruptors, is extremely risky
Disruptors are so shite even top tier players keep losing them, idk why just not go Collosus every time
They both suck thats the problem. Colossus do zero damage to anything but marines and get obliterated by vikings
cause collosus don't do anything really to marauders.
Colossus used to do splash to everything, now it's a strictly anti-light unit.
@@sharpie11112 duh have you tried what Protoss do since WoL release to destroy Vikings? Storm them.
@@skipperg4436 Why didn't maxpax do it then?
Thank you for these videos.
3:34 how do they shoot so fast?
that's their normal speed so idk, unless you're not realizing that different stalkers are attacking at different times
The shots were staggered
First game epic
It really seems like rather than marines, marauders are what makes the bio ball op. The slow, the bonus dmg and the fact that people don't usually switch to more armour shredding options as long as they're facing 'bio'. I think if maxpax went more immortals in that first game, he would have won.
immortals against mass marauders ? mmm i think he just lacked casters and air superiority. those medivacs can't be left unpunished.
Immortals are one of the worst units in the game, and they'll just evaporate in 2 volleys vs any amount of marauders
Literally two Tempests to snipe the medivacs and he would have won, or Byun would have changed styles
Max pax got lazy thinking Byun would crumble to his insane income.
Wow, how byun fought back and got it, sickkk.
some of those nova's are landing and doing no damage... something seems broken.
Emp are cheap and effective to remove shields and energy
water is wet, fire is hot
I generally like your videos a lot (been watching most of them ever since 2017 or so), but I hate the current setup where you start your videos 2-3 minutes into a game. It's VERY annoying/disorienting and quite frankly a bit insulting. It's not like the follow-up games in a series also start 2-3 minutes into the game (which would also be VERY annoying).
i think he explained in a former video that thanks to this format, more people view the entire video. The begining of the matches is a bit boring so a lot of people just quit at this moment. He replaces this 2 minutes by memes, jokes, and analysis, and when he switches to the game, the actions starts around the same time so people stay.
@@JacksonJoseph-Eugene Yes, which says a lot about some people that Winter tries to cater to I guess. It's a pity, because I (at least) constantly feel that I'm missing content of the first few minutes and that I'm dropped in the middle of something. It's a bit like scrapping the first few minutes of a game of sports. Why would you want to do that and why would anyone want to miss it? I guess Attention Deficit Disorder is the current thing now? I never found the first few minutes of a game with Winter's commentary boring at all. Not a fan to say the least.
@@Koelebig He adapts to the statistics. Thats how business works. if the figures shows that more people watch, well it's successfull for him. I prefer him to be able to make a living with the youtube money, than him stoping doing videos because nowadays as SC2 fans we are a dying breed.
I share your views on the ADD though but hey it is how it is
@@JacksonJoseph-Eugene Yes, I understand that and it's sad that things work that way. I do hope that he doesn't blind himself with those statistics and lose old viewers by trying to gain an extra few, because it can work both ways.
@@Koelebig From the look of things the new way gains more viewers than he loses, so, _shrugs_ , it is what it is.
there's nothing " incredible" about widOP mines aside from how incredibly fucking broken they are.
Noob.
@@themosthighvaluemaninthega9048 Average terran "player"