VR Development of Windows Mixed Reality Dropped by Microsoft | To be removed from future releases!
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- Опубликовано: 8 окт 2024
- Microsoft announces WMR is depreciated and development and support will be dropped in future releases of their Windows OS. What does this mean for Reverb G2 users?
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I suppose not totally unexpected following the recent announcement of downsizing their XR team, but earlier than I anticipated. Disappointing. Note this only applies to headsets that use WMR as their VR runtime. Headsets using OpenXR variants will not be affected by this development.
Thanks for the info SimHanger but its "dep-rick-ated" not depreciated. Not being a dick, just pointing that out.
@@byronmcduffy3485thanks, I know, but Microsoft’s use of the term means the same thing in my opinion. It will be gradually phased out with no further development.
which headsets are those? that u mentioned? open xr variants?
@@andrievbastichy8551 most headsets have OpenXR variants, including Q3, Pico4 Pimax Crystal etc.
can confirm using the latest version of insider, its completely gutted. windows mixed reality will not load even using FOD cab file to try and side load the latest version. 24h2 ensures steamVR will not run.
Hololens 3 is now the IVAS program for US Army - not for public consumption.
I think it would be only fair if MS would open the code under free-open source software, so other enthusiast could continue on the project.
OpenXR is already open source, only the G2 is really using this version, other headsets shouldn’t be affected.
@@SimHangerFS there are games that do not run under OpenXR but do run under WMR for SteamVR, for example Aerofly FS 2.
I can't go back to 2-D flight simming. I haven't flown looking at a 2-D screen ever since I bought my Reverb G2 several years ago, and I fly VR often! If VR flight simming goes away entirely at some point, I guess I do too. No way I can go back to 2-D. No way. Maybe this isn't what this announcement even means, but ya know... one thing always leads to another and they don't tell us a damn thing. I love how you need to "come across" this info buried in some Microsoft release statement somewhere. Extremely irritating.
Thanks, Mark for providing this info. Not shooting the messenger here! :)
So far, it just means that the Windows Mixed Reality software goes away (no loss, it was bad anyway). We still have SteamVR and Remote Desktop as ways to access VR. There are enough players in the hardware game that we should be good overall. 🤞
@@videoviewer2008 I hope you are correct. That gives me hope. Remote Desktop for VR? I know what remote desktop is, but not sure what you mean by using it for VR? Just curious. :)
Significant investment in VR and now this news. Disappointed is an understatement. Their affirmative decision to REMOVE it from future versions of Windows means auto-installing their forced updates to their OS will vaporize my investment in VR and setup. I’m actually pretty angry.
Don't give up yet. 1) The Quest 3 has way better visuals and still takes advantage of your PC investment. 2) I wouldn't be surprised if the XR community makes some open source layer doesn't need WMR software. (Newer headsets are so much better that losing WMR won't really matter.)
@@videoviewer2008 Don’t get me wrong - i am sure others will help. But in the end, WMR, despite being VERY lame for VERY long, was generally stable and integrated with both of my headsets.
I hope i am incorrect, but my spider sense is starting to feel like it did way back when MSFT pulled the plug the first time on Flight Simulator….
@@videoviewer2008 Yes - if you can afford to lay out $ 1000 AUD for a Quest 3 that is !!! Not all of us have your deep pockets.
Lots of options that don't require Windows Mixes Reality.
@@videoviewer2008i agree except for the Q3 being an upgrade. It simply is not. I went from G2 to Q3 for PCVR and it was as if I dropped from 4K tv to 720p or worse. That’s with virtual desktop and wifi 6E.
Thanks, Mark! Not good news, but I always appreciate you keeping us informed with factual info
I saved up for 6 months to buy the G2, took ages to get it set up with the limited helpful info, now this - seems we are taken for fools - most disappointed and definitely peed off.
Microsoft will allow access for at least 36 months in my opinion, so by that time the headset may have reached a replacement point.
Thank you for your reply, I know that VR is changing all the time but, perhaps you could produce a video on what you believe the best setup for the G2 using a PC for flight simming in VR (sitting) could be and how to set it up in today's changing environment . At the moment I am building another PC purely for VR flight in X-Plane 12 and, Elite Dangerous. Cheers, stay safe and stay well. I will however consider saving up for a G3 but , it's so pricey, suggestions please.
Unfortunatly there will be no G3.. for sure
Had my G2 for a couple of years now and only fly in VR so this is a bit worrying. But I guess if I get a couple of more years use out of the G2 it’ll be ready for an upgrade anyhow. Thanks for the info. Happy Christmas.
Throws VR support inside MSFS itself in question too! 😢
MS released a version of Word, Excel and cloud Xbox gaming at the same time. Its hard to say. Might be good in the long run.
Almost 20% of MSFS users are into VR. That’s is a huge market by itself.
The Quest3 has way better optics, pancake lenses are the future. And the Reverb G2 had unreliable and expensive cables. Even before this news, if you were telling someone which device to get "now" it would have been then Q3. (I have had 3 WMR devices, it was obvious MS really gave up years ago)
It is a kick in the teeth from Microsoft but to be honest, since moving from the Reverb G2 to the Quest 3 platform I've not looked back. Wireless play is so liberating and playing Beat Saber is a cool new experience in the Quest 3. I've also tried more games on the Quest 3 than I ever was compelled to do on the HP Reverb G2. On the downside SDE is slightly more noticable on the Quest 3 but it's not too bad, everything else is better and that includes comfort and battery with the right headstrap (I use Aubika), the lenses with edge to edge clarity is a game changer.
Good for you but some of us are happy with our Reverb G2s and don't want to be forced to buy another headset.
Funny @@regwatson2017 if I had a read my own comment and not bought a Quest 3 headset, I would have almostly certainly wrote the same reply. I guess you don't know what you don't know.
@dtrjones All good. Some people grin and bear it and can afford to just move on but to some it is a kick in the teeth 😅
I’m sure there will always be someone to implement the code into a little program to run on what ever windows version we are on
I’m staying on windows 10 for a while to go yet
And if it is the case where we are forced to buy new headsets then the VR market will just get smaller and smaller
I guess time will tell but Microsoft just doesn’t seem to think there’s a future in VR by the looks of it
Thanks for the announcement Mark, a little discerning to be sure in the short-term. Looking to upgrade next year anyway so not too serious.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
I am still on Windows 10 and have no intention of moving to 11 (or 12!!!).
I have 2 WMR headsets, Samsung Odyssey and HP Reverb G2.I use the G2 on my Flight Simulator and the Samsung on my racing sim setup. Hopefully I can just keep going with these and Windows 10 until they wear out.
I never trusted Microsoft so I have ignored things like the OpenXR Toolkit etc and concentrated on other methods of improving performance. I can switch to SteamVR anytime, in fact I try it every so often, and with my setups and software I only get a small degradation compared to WMR.
Maybe one day I will have to look at buying a new PC, until then I will continue to get my money's worth from my current setups, for which I have resisted NVidia's pressure to waste money upgrading my RTX 2000 series video cards. These RTX 2080 and RTX 2070S cards now have a much better effective performance than when I bought them thanks to all the DLSS, FSR, CSP and other software that has been developed and released.
As a VR and MSFT and an HP Reverb G2 guy things are not going like I anticipated: I was expecting higher quality and lower cost VR headsets over time, more adoption in the market, and more VR development.
Hey Mark, All the best for Xmas and 2024 and beyond. I’m more than a little upset as I am about to open my Xmas box which is the Varjo Aero. I know I’m lucky but how do I stand for future flying. Will it still work with MSFS 2020? If not I may well be returning it before I’ve even opened it. Cheers and Regards Brian
The Aero doesn’t use WMR, but their own OpenXR variant, so you will not be impacted by this at all.
@@SimHangerFSThanks so much for your reassurance, much appreciated.
First, thank you for your videos. They are much an inspiration for my flight simulation setup. Based on your videos, I acquired HP Reverb G2 VR headset for the MFSM 2020 and it's amazing. It helped me a lot for the procedures in getting my PPL. And also for my Night Rating. Now I use it for the IR procedure pre-training. It's a sad that Microsoft is abandoning the support for VR. And also sad that HP is getting the easy way out and not getting their own support/software, after spending that much money. I do have dual setup with Tobii Eye tracker and it works great (after some tweaks from your video), but VR helps much more. Hopefully it will be supported for a while, before I need to look for alternative VR solutions.
I think your good until 2026 with the reverb, but the Quest 3 is a beauty 😀
@@SimHangerFS I hope to have my IR by then 😉 I hope it will work with MSFS 2024. I believe you about Quest 3, but enough investment for now. Will look for the next best by then 😉
Have gone the Varjo Aero way but I was planning to let my son take over my G2 so this sucks :(
Hmm, I wonder if this announcement will affect VR development/ bug fixes in FS2024. What do you think the impact of depreciating Open XR toolkit will have Mark?
I don't understand the implications of this. The reverb G2 can already use OXR or steamVR without issue and no flightsim to my knowledge requires WMR to run. So all we'll be loosing is the crappy clifftop house that no one wants anyway. If anything it'll be more convenient that VR just closes to desktop rather than WMR when you close the application.
Am I misunderstanding something?
Most headsets use OpenXR or Steam uses OpenVR. These are the two VR environments in which VR run. But like so many things, there are multiple varieties of a standard. The G2 uses the WMR runtime of the OpenXR standard. For Steam it uses the app referred to in the video to effectively convert OpenVR to the WMR OpenXR runtime. Try run the G2 with another variant of OpenXR and it will be unsuccessful. Hope that makes sense.
this is not cause for concern. my guess is that MS's strategy is to 'partner' with Meta in some shape or form and develop their software products accordingly. For example, xbox games being available on Quest 3, and the Microsoft Office products now available on Quest 3
Two of the nastiest dumbest companies on Earth teaming up against us is a BAD IDEA.
insightful comment
I expect to still get hundreds of hours more of DCS playtime in my G2. It is a blast! Well worth the investment!
Hum, no
I said a few months ago that unlike Meta support on its Oculus, WMR support would be permanent, I'm not sure I understand everything correctly, I thought that the platform on Windows only streamed an image via the HDMI cable to the headset and that, that could never be deactivated, like, an old TV that continues to work, even with a blueray player and a SCART adapter, but this news concerning the stopping of WMR support and the removal of the app in future versions of Windows makes me wonder...
Being an old guy, I stay on Windows 10, which was supposed to be “the latest version of Windows, and always will be” in 2015.
Could I still use my Lenovo Explorer through Steam? Not for new games, that's for sure, but for old ones ? The ones I already have ? Or will Steam slowly drop support for WMR headsets as well ?
Makes me wonder if HP had insider advanced notice of this because they suddenly stopped making Reverbs even though it was a popular mid-priced headset.
Highly doubt it …. HP couldn’t be that smart 😅
@@MrNeilRoberts True - there is that !
Am I really going to have to move back to X-Plane for my VR FlightSim Fix!
THANK you for this vital information , will there be an alternative softwear avilible , I have HP reverbe 2 and Varjo AREO .
Software should be available until 2026 at least.
Ridiculous that they are going to remove it. Why can't they leave it as is even with no further development ? Grrr - I hate Microsoft. I wish there was an alternative to these bastards (and if anyone says the word Linux I am going to hit you with my soon-to-be obsolete G2).
The G2 should be supported for circa 36 months in my opinion.
They remove it from future windows versions. In Win10 and Win11 it should keep working. Windows 12 should be without WMR. That's how I understood it.
Hopefully with the bad comes the good. VR is cool but WMR to me has missed the MR part. Lets hope for not just better visuals and frame rates with technology advancements but the abilities to control the cockpit with our hands. That said, I hope MS/ASOBO can focus on a program that can allow devs to make this happen within their platform.
I spent £660 buying my Reverb G2 a few months back and now this. I didn't want a wireless headset.
keep the receipt. if it stops working within the 2 year warranty you contact HP and get a refund because it's unfixable
You can use it for the next 36 months ❤ for sure..
@@erwumme5732 You can't after the November 2024 update. You can still download the drivers if you keep a none-updated version of windows for 36 months
I only just got my bloody G2 working properly after a year of struggle (signal from Logitech dongle was causing freezes!!!) Why does Microsoft hate us so?
Ahhh, my G2 has had cable issues and a cracking headphone (just fixed it finally). It was great when it came out. But, technology has dramatically improved. For the same cost you can get a Q3 with way better optics, color pass thru, and hand tracking. (Hopefully hand tracking can work in PCVR, I don't think it does) Next generation will be even better.
I often console myself with the fact that there will always be something new and the thing that is expensive now will get cheaper. Now my G2 is working so well, I am glad I didn’t upgrade it. Got a dedicated PCIe card for the USB C cable so it has its own controller, that stopped the glitches and the dongle thing I mentioned stopped the freezes. I have a crackling headphone too!!! How did you fix it?
@eggsdooley I was able to fix my headphones by unscrewing it from the headband and putting a little bit of dielectric grease at the connection between the speaker arm and the headband. There is a connection similar to pogo pins.
Mark, thanks this must push me over the edge to get quest 3 and dump g2. what is your thought?
Keep in mind that the Reverb will be supported until 2026…
In Germany a Reverb G2 is no länger available😢
Now that I have migrated all my games and activities to Linux, and VR was the last reason I kept a dual boot system with windows, now that this depracation will happen there's literally no reason to keep windows, if these tools are ever open source they will surely work better in Linux (just like old games, you can create a Windows 98 prefix in lutris and everything there will work 100 times better than in windows 11).
I hope that creative VR community will think of something instead of WMR.
I read it will at least work for until 2026 and by that time hopefully even better hmd's than the G2 will be available. I also have the Quest 3 which I use for standalone gaming, but honestly it's such a good headset that it's already a great replacement for my G2, might my G2 cease to work someday. And for some positive news it's great to see how much SteamVR keeps improving lately, including a Steam Link app for the Quest 3.
Agreed, a point to note is that this will be phased out over an extended period.
so after couple of years the fully functional product will become obsolete ?🤥
God this hurts so bad.
I've never delved into VR but I have been considering it for a few months I suppose. Most of this information went over my head as I don't understand what a lot of it means.
For a simple man like myself; VR isn't getting scrapped altogether? This is just one type of VR system that updates are halting for? Thanks in advance
Windows Mixed Reality was Microsoft's built in platform for VR on PC. Oculus, Pimax, HTC, and Valve all use their own programs for running VR, Mixed Reality was supposed to make it easier for devs to make VR headsets without needing to make the software. If you consider buying a VR headset for the names above, this will unaffect you. WMR were in general better value headsets with inside out tracking. They usually didn't have the best specs but at a decent price and had inside out tracking before most of the competition.
Thank you very much for breaking it down for me@@Skylancer727 I REALLY appreciate that. I hope your day has been awesome
A few months ago when my HP Reverb G2 became faulty I invested in a Pico 4 wireless headset. Also switched from mixed reality for Steam to Virtual Desktop XR. Have to say that I'm so pleased with a much improved user experience. Even the headset (slightly 'BoBo' modified) is way more comfortable. MS are are possibly seeing this type of change more generally hence their announcement.
@SimHangerFS looking at buying a G2 to replace my Rift as i wanted something that connects like my Rift and didnt want to faff around with virtual desktops, link cables, batteries etc would you still by a G2 seconded hand?
The G2 will be supported through to mid/late 2026
VR itself is a tiny segment of the gaming market. WMR would be an even smaller part of those. If there is no money in it for them, they’ll pull the plug. Personally I wouldn’t touch VR now. Too many competing technologies, and it’s a toss up whether the one you opt for will go the way of the dinosaur. The last one I bough pt was the original Vive, having a Rift before that. I don’t feel any draw to reinvest in any of that tech.
I agree, I did buy a PSVR1 but didn't buy PSVR2 due to the lack of AAA development compared to the first headset. Right now a high end platform is being supported by mobile phone quality games. Not sustainable.
Is VR in MSFS in question too? Clearly, they've no interest in VR
Thats two seperate things. Why should they throw money in keeping up an environment they dont profit from? MS2020 and in the furture MS2024 work perfectly well with OpenXR, they dont need to take care how people get into OpenXR and with what headset. There hasnt been a new WMR headset since for years now and nothing new has been on the horizon since then
‘Deprecated’ ‘depreciated’.
VR was way too cool to ever catch on broadly. 😂😂
this sucks but I think MS has made the decision just before we see the higher interest in pc VR again (like Bigscreen beyond). I assume all additional software (Steam, Virtual Desktopstreamer) will be supported so when that's the case we don't lose, but we gain, because we select which software to use not MS. Windows Mixed reality was in my opinion more in the way sometimes then it did good perhaps I don''t have the full picture, but now worries here ;-)
This morning none of my planes will start. Are you aware of nay changes made in MSFS?
Today my FlightSim no longer supports my reverb g2
This is terriable news. It is bad enough that HP is no longer building VR headsets, and now Microsoft dumping WMR means I am switching to the Quest3. I hate when companies through its customers under the bus like this.
W H A T ??????😢😢😢😢😢😢 I guess my future toy will be the TOBI EYE TRACKER! hmmm...maybe investment in them would be good now
Lol I uninstalled it off my Win 10 PC a few days ago as I now have my Quest 3. I suggest MS have seen the writing on the wall recently. I beat them to it….Thanks. Laurie NZ. 😊
I was just musing to myself how my headset is like 6 years old now, and it's probably time i buckle down and upgrade at some point. And then i see the announcement that microsoft is ending platform support... rip...
Jorg Newman owes us an answer on this. Will MSFS 2024 support VR?
Yes it will, it uses OpenXR runtime, WMR is just one portal of numerous.
This sucks and will be a bit of a hit for VR game development going forward I would think. I am considering getting an HP Reverb Omnicept, for development purposes but am now more strongly considering the Vive Pro.
I tried to find an omnicept on the official HP store during the last sale but it was already delisted. Now even the Reverb G2 is delisted. Store page on HP no longer exists. The link Valve provides from steam is a dead link.
Just. Bought a replacement for a faulty one still under warranty which seems impossible for HP to repair or replace the faulty one.
HP is the worst company I have ever experienced in 40 years of computing!
Imo they shouldve released wmr on the xbox
so microsoft will not support msfs 2024 in VR ?
Deprecated is pronounced like deprecated, not like depreciated.
all we need is an open source driver.
I think they also will skip VR in MSFS2024!
A couple of months ago in one of the development videos the Asobo team said that VR would be included in 2024.
Can you show me the video?
Classic Microsoft, They exit a platform just as it is about to explode with Apple and Google headsets. They are like a big dumb Titanic at everything they do. Also Microsoft do us a favor and don't think about jumping back in when you are too late. Just stay out of VR for good.
the internet drama machine does its thing again, everyone should toss away their headsets because a guy who has a history of being wrong about everything VR discovers a line of text saying WMR won't be included in some future version of Windows installation, and nothing more. Any day now and we'll have the Deckard , right?
This is very disappointing news for sure. Especially for those that can't afford to upgrade to another VR headset at the current costs of these new headsets. I can understand that as time goes by, changes are going to occur, but it seems that the ones with the majority of any particular item are always the ones that are impacted the most. It doesn't surprise me that Microsoft is doing this, and that they know that it will impact the vast majority of VR users. To them it is simply business, and to millionaires it doesn't seem to be a problem. For those of us that are on fixed incomes, that have already invested heavily into MSFS with peripherals abound, it is a huge deal and will once again force the HP Reverb G2 users to make a financial decision at some time in the future. Do I once again invest into a headset that in a couple of years will be obsolete? Or do I buy groceries, medications, and pay the monthly bills that are required to live? I guess time will tell, but I see some, if not a vast majority, just simply getting away from VR altogether.
I expect the G2 will be supported through 2026.
Moved from the G2 to the Quest 3. So not affected.
That didn’t didn’t last long
Open source the drivers? Of course not, they're microsoft. They don't care about you. "Thanks for the money, suckers!"
I'll never give a dime to anything microsoft related ever again.
Bean counter desicion making imho, not great for Microsoft’s reputation either hardly a positive step for a technology company
I bought the HP Reverb 2 for Microsoft Flight Simulator. It never worked well. I sent it back and the company reimbursed me about 60% of what I paid for it. Never again will I use that crap.
Two (or more) nations separated by a common language. They say 'deprecated'- disapproved of, disparaged, belittled - not 'depreciated' Mark - decreased in value over time. Doesn't really matter; what matters is, as you say, that they have decided to 'discontinue' Mixed reality in future releases. I believe that they choose to call it 'deprecated' instead of 'discontinued' or 'removed...because they can, and think that using deprecate somehow makes them appear more sophisticated or smarter (more clever in English) when in fact, like so many who 'mangle' the beautiful English language, they simply reveal their ignorance (or creative vandalism, depending upon which way you look at it). Pedantic rant over.
A rant perhaps, but one worth reading. Why would they use a precise and accurate word when a hazy euphemism is available? My hands-down favorite is when people need to say “passed” instead of “died”. When I hear “my mother passed last year” I am dying (so to speak) to say “Passed what? Gas?”
Reminds me of George Carlin’s bit - classic!
A deprecated feature is one that *hasn't* been discontinued yet, but you're discouraged from using it, typically because it will be discontinued in the future. They're calling it deprecated because they will continue to support it until 2026.If it were discontinued, they wouldn't.
This is standard terminology in the software industry.
This is bullshit. Why just kill it? My G2 is fine!
Gay
Deprecated and depreciated are two different words.
Typical MS. Pulling the rug out from underneath us. This seems pretty familiar with how they handled FSX as well.
So, no point in me buying the wmr headset i was planning on getting? great. any advice?
It Depends onYour
videocard.. with out a 4080 or higher you will have no fun with a standalone Headset like Pico 4 or Quest 3 because of lacking a displaykabel😂 if you wann to Player DCS or MSFS 2020
They had developed the bare minimum and never optimized it, so it's not a great loss !!! Open XR is much better anyway.