Patrick (H) Willems Damn, you’re right, I only ever watched your videos to know what you use to shave! Thanks, Dollar Shave Club! Actually, no joke, their razors are pretty great
I would argue your argument that "this is for kids", I have another sci-fi fandom that I follow, the Gundam series, and I learn about Gundam as a kid at almost the same time as I learn about Star Wars. The difference between the 2 is the new Gundam Thunderbolt movie still give me the same feeling while being a flip to the old stories (the Gundam pilot is an a-hole as opposed to a golden hearted kid as any other Gundam series) and TLJ felt like I have just been lectured about how I should behave. Gundam have a rich lore too, and god knows the fandom are like walking Gundam Wiki as well, the difference between the 2 series is, the creator of Thunderbolt knows and respected those lore, so even though they're flipping the expectations, fans still love them! Heck I'd argue that Gundam Thunderbolt tried to make the same message as this new Star Wars trilogy, about there's no good or bad side in a war, everything is in the shade of grey, that protecting the things you love is more important than winning a war that you don't even understand, that the poor is always the first to suffer. Another difference is they make these massages without being preachy! In the end, I just want to say, no I don't hate TLJ because my nostalgia and expectations hinder me, I hate TLJ because it basically forgot that it is a part of a bigger story, heck it even forgot that it is the 2nd movie of its own trilogy. And we don't expect Rey to be a child of some famous Jedi/Sith or how we expect Snoke as Plagueis, it's just the delivery of how these revelations are made in a way that made it seemed to be important and then to be shown as then not important, if you want to make Rey's parentage that she came from nobody as important, then make a big deal about it! Not just from 2 lines at the almost end of the movie, and for a reference I ACTUALLY THEORISED THAT REY'S PARENTS ARE NOBODIES! That is my rebuttal on your conclusion.
Your video would be useful if you did not reprint dated misinformation about the prequels. The prequels had FAR more practical effects work than the original trilogy. The new sequel trilogy uses far more CGI than the prequels. The models and miniatures work of the prequels was the most extensive of the entire franchise.
I would not subject my parents to being quarantined with my brother and me for a year. They are good people did nothing to deserve such cruel punishment.
I may be biased because I'm from the generation of the prequels, but from the conversations I've had and witnessed on social media and in general, I believe elements from the prequels are now part of what makes Star Wars a 'Star Wars' movie. The prequels are 'Star Wars' for a whole generation of fans, and now that the generation has grown up, their expectations have been mixed in with the generations of before on what people want from a Star Wars movie.
Lucas is on record saying "every movie I make, I try to make them different." He never set out to recapture the exact same feeling and story of the original movies with the prequels, which is what fans at the time could not have known or expected. They are not flawless of course, but they're not as deserving of the crucifixion they got.
That is absolutely true., I hate the sequels because they are meant for people who don't like the sequels. They're meant for a different audience entirely.
I think your comment is key, actually. I myself was born less than a year before Phantom Menace came out, so the prequels have always been there (even if I was introduced to them in Lego Video Game form). They have been so much of the lore for me, but I think people like us are also biased for this very reason. I try to stay as objective as possible and keep an open mind to new Star Wars content but a lot of fans like us don’t feel that way. Because they grew up on the prequels, they have basically become biased towards them (or at least, Revenge of the Sith and Clone Wars). To them, the Disney films don’t represent THEIR version of Star Wars, where Jedi were omnipresent saints who were then massacred in edgy, violent fashion (for real, the vast majority of prequel stans are either edgelords or memesters). But what they fail to recognize - and what the original trilogy fans failed to recognize back when the prequels came out - is that those younger fans, who grew up with the newest films, will one day come up and become the majority voice. Pretty soon, when Disney releases more Star Wars films, sequel fans will rise from the rubble and denounce the new movies as not giving them the thrill they had watching the sequels, just like the prequel fans are doing with the sequels. As George Lucas himself once said, “History repeats itself, it rhymes”.
People shouldn't have to explain or defend their opinions for anything. I liked Prometheus but don't feel the need to write a 5 page essay as to why I like it. We need to look passed fan unanimous decisions based upon imdb user scores and understand that it's all how you feel about the films. I stopped being a star wars fan because the arguing got stupid and if I ever have kids, I wouldn't want them to get into fandom stuff if it means arguing all the time.
Well, if you look at it considering ROTS is considered better because the "good" stuff happens in it and strip the fact that the good suff happens it's not really better than any of the prequels and furthermore that the execution of the good stuff is often questionable (the death of Padme is really, really dumb for example) he has a point.
He actually discussed this on Twitter. (I don't personally agree with him, I think Attack of the Clones is easily the worst prequel). twitter.com/patrickhwillems/status/1034794700463587328
It's definitely the best individual movie out of the pequel bunch, even though its storyline could have been skipped in the grand scheme of things. The podracing scene is exhilarating and it has the least awful bluescreen CGI in the trilogy.
Compared to the insufferable, cringeworthy, vaguely creepy "romance" of Clones and the insufferable CG bore-fest of Sith, I'm actually surprised how rarely I hear it.
It's kind of prophetic how you talked about "the Luke-equivalent" of the Darth Vader-scene, when that exact thing happened in season 2 of The Mandalorian, and fans thought it was the greatest moment ever and proclaimed that "Star Wars has been saved".
I know, right? Like, the scene looks cool and appropriately horrifying. Yet I'm not surprised at all that it's happening or that Vader is not inflicting damage fast enough to accomplish his mission of obtaining the tape immediately.
While i respect what this video has to say i have to disagree. I am in me 20s so i really never cared about the expanded universe or ''wookipedia articles'' ,and nevertheless i thought last jedi was a bad movie for the obvious reasons most people think its one ( annoying characters , bad pacing,out of place themes and messages and unlike the original trilogy terrible misfirings of comedy that the movie went out of its way to make ) however for me the biggest reason i can't care about this movie is that it is 2018 and we are still watching the same star wars story told to us in a way to think that it was different . In the end of the movie we are left with the big strong empire controlled by a dark villain and the striving rebelion by a young aspiring hero , so by the end of the movie did it really change anything ? I think if you are to make a stars wars movie 30 years after the original should be something special and have a reason to do it, not make a washed up space adventure with the excuse to sell cute toys because in the end you dont create fans you create contemporary consumers that they wont even remember star wars.
Metalgos Dude you got me there, im also in my 20's (22 actually) and i couldnt care less for the EU or the canon/non canon thingy mcjigger, I only liked the Star Wars material i had, that were the precuels and original trilogy, and Star Wars Clone Wars (the Gendy Tartakovsky mini series) and The Clone Wars, and all that wookiepedia and EU shit its just annoying to me, TFA was pretty good for me, wasnt the best one, but left some good points, but TLJ just feel like not surprising or empty, it took a lot of points from ESB and some from ROTJ and put some filler on it (and it wasnt as good as the one they put on twinkies) it had some nice elements and i think this saga its not doomed, but this movie could just be better if they just continued the points from the first one, Finn's caracter arc as well as Poe with i have a major issue despite been the only one that had one its pretty childish and looked like it wasnt deep at all, the best of the movie was Kylo and Rey, and even they could had more interesting direccions to go
Aside from the 11 minutes spend on Canto Bight, what doesn't fit with Star Wars thematically? "annoying characters" is something I just don't agree on and I think you should elobare on for it to make sense. Misfired humour is certainly there, but it's only a little. I also think I could come up with a better argument for why the movie would be bad than most people who actually dislike it.
Look man sure if for you the characters and the themes ( aside from canto bight ) worked that's really fine and i am happy for you liking the movie ( i am not beind sarcastic ) , however i am really not interested in elaboarating more on my opinions on a youtube comment section just like you just claiming that you can make a better argument from the "people that dislike the movie ".
+Metalgos Why even bring something up if you're unwilling to discuss it. You also talk about the "obvious reasons most people think it's bad", and you mention themes, which made me think you must be smarter than most people who are talking about their dislike as themes is something that actually matters in Star Wars and not logic.
"The characters once again talk like normal people. The protagonists were relatable." specially in the Mandalorian. People giving huge shit to the Sequel trilogy(not as much as the Prequels back in the day) but always feel like an incubation process. The creators listen what work in the beta version, and fix the glitches in the process.
@@THEAdmiralXizor I always hear this argument. You know its possible to make a movie for kids that adults enjoy as well. Also I was 13 when Phantom Menace came out and I thought it was terrible.
@@coalitionofseekers9572 "I have noticed that many people who were kids when the prequels came out actually liked them..." People can have different opinions. No big deal.
I was born in 76, and although I didn't see Star Wars in theaters, I saw the Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi in theaters. And, I had to wait for what seemed like an ETERNITY with nothing but what's now called the expanded universe, or, "Legends." I know that feeling, of the original trilogy being, "pure," and profound, and it was probably the thing that was the most constant presence during my childhood in the early 80's. Even though I actually enjoyed and celebrated the prequel trilogy when it finally arrived, I still always preferred the orig trig. But, now I absolutely CONSUME everything new that is Star Wars lol from, "The Clone Wars," and, "Rebels," to, "Rogue One," and the, "Resistance series." If it's Star Wars, I'm there! Nothing will ever be as good as the original trilogy, so I try not to get my expectations too high or unrealistic. Because that's a recipe for disappointment. Instead, I just enjoy the ride. And my kids love everything Star Wars, too. The worst thing about being a Star Wars fan isn't any of the decisions Lucasfilm has made, before or after Disney took over from George Lucas. It's the cadré, that vocal minority of pissed off, "fans," who spend most of their time talking trash about Kathleen Kennedy, Rian Johnson, and Disney. As if they want to spread their destructive attitude to as many other people in the fandom as possible, so they'll feel more justified with their negativity. And, it's also the ONE thing that my kids are having to deal with, too. As they try to navigate through their favorite clips on RUclips, or discussions with other fans. That element of the fandom COULD have just turned to another property, like Marvel, or anything else that didn't piss them off so much lol but instead there are dozens of RUclips channels dedicated to nothing else but spreading as much HATE and vitriol throughout the fandom as possible. And, that must really suck lol to be them! 😂 Yes. I am that 40 something year old white dude who still loves Star Wars lol but I'll be honest, I don't love EVERY aspect of decision. And if I hated it as much as some Star Wars fans seem to lately lol I'd try being a fan something else, without question.
Well pal sorry to tell you this but those guys are just like you. Instead of talking about the toxic fans they want to talk about a movie they think is really bad. It s as simple as that. You don t have to listen to them or talk to them but what can we say....we love to argue. If you want to consume anything they give you....that s fine just don t ask other people to Be ok with it. We are not even STAR WARS FANS.....we love a lot of media like anime, marvel and many other things but it just surprises us how bad they did to star wars and wanna talk about it. So yeah we may still talk shit about star wars but we have moved on to enjoy other media while talking how bad it has gotten...BECAUSE it s fun and the topic keeps on giving apparently.
the fact that you used FF7 Remake for that "what you expect but shinier" line is hilarious in retrospect for how bad an example that turned out to be xD
conceptually, this reminds me a lot of lindsay ellis' series on the hobbit obv this is not a criticism. academics will often converge but its two angles on how expectation built on our formative experience afects how we receive newer art. id watch these together, maybe
I think there is an important distinction to make between the two franchises: one is an adaption while the other is an original story. So while you cannot technically "know better than the creator" in Star Wars, you can certainly miss the point the original author intended to make with the Hobbit. It is also noteworthy that the Lord of the Rings trilogy was a very good adaptation that was mostly faithful to the books, so it is in the best interest of the author to do the same when adapting the prequel to ensure that the continuity is maintained and that everything in the story has a purpose
Many people in the comments already pointed it out but the most common criticism of the movie is lack of consistency. Rian Johnson is the kind of filmmaker that prioritizes individual moments over overarching story. And as a result you got a movie that is not consistent with its immediate predecessor, the original trilogy or even itself at times. Things happen because plot needs them to happen, characters flip flop on a whim and nothing feels organic and natural. Looper, Johnson’s previous movie, shares a lot of similar problems.
Yes thank you! Someone else needed to say this! He did the same thing with Breaking Bad. I loved The Fly episode, but it was a dramatic change of pace. As I said in previous comments, TLJ would be a fine TV episode, it's painful to watch in theaters.
How to fix Star Wars: set it hundreds of years in the future (this way the old charicture feel like legends instead because when we last saw them they were young) then expand on the force
Honestly, I have enjoyed every single Star Wars movie in at least some way. I can see negatives in all of them but I tend to prefer to focus on the positives since that is a lot more fun
I'm curious, what do you consider the best and worst parts/moments from each film? Here's mine: TPM: Best: The opening is great; Worst: Pod-racing scene, way to long. AOTC: Kamino is my favorite prequel planet; hate Yoda vs Dooku RotS: One thing the prequels do is have fantastic openings, love this opening; other than Grevious v Obi, I find the second act so boring. Solo: Lando and Han interacting; Darth Maul was not needed. RO: Literally the entire third act; the pacing of the second act is to slow. ANH: The Trench Run; throughout the film can drag quite a bit(Honorary mention is CGI Jabba) ESB: Cloud City as a whole;the humor ROTJ: The Space Battle;the 40 minute opening TFA: The Lightsaber fight OR the cinematography;C3PO being useless This is where I piss everyone off. TLJ: I LOVE Luke's ark, one of my favorite arks in Star Wars; The humor is equal to the prequels
@@AlexStudiosChannel well to me I enjoy podracing but otherwise the tattooiine part drags our. AOTC: I enjoy obi looking for jango and the arrival of the clones but creepy Anakin flirting is cringy. ROTS: probably my favourite of them all. SOLO: starts slow but ends great RO: Same as solo ANH: same as you. ESB: I like a lot ROTJ: badass luke is great ewoks are bad TFA: kylo ren was an interesting villain and the first half was fun. Second half was a copy of a new hope. TLJ: I enjoyed all the Rey, Kylo and luke parts. Everything else was less interesting.
@@AlexStudiosChannel I'll give my two cents TPM: The opening, probably the best introduction to Star Wars (sorry ANH). The Tattooine section of the movie can tend to drag a little. AOTC: The ending duel with Obi-Wan and Dooku (I don't mind Yoda fighting with a lightsaber at all but what precedes it is much better) is perfection. The fireplace scene is pretty dodgy. ROTS: Anakin murdering the Separatists on Mustafar while Palpatine declares the Galactic Empire Godfather style. The "It's only because I'm so in love" scene is honestly worse than anything in AOTC. Solo: The Kessel Run is just really fun to watch. The movie is far too dark for a Star Wars film and it doesn't even match the tone of the movie. RO: The Vader scene is alright (there's a lot of weird time jumps and Vader doesn't have nearly as sophisticated choreography as the Jedi do in the prequels when they destroy Droids). Tarkin being an absolute buffoon and making baffling decisions throughout the whole movie. ANH: The destruction of Alderaan and Tarkin's sheer malice during it is fantastic. The Jawa segment of the movie is the closest I get to being bored throughout 1-6. ESB: The duel on Cloud City is amazing. C3PO is honestly worse than Jar-Jar here. ROTJ: The battle over the Sarlacc is utter perfection. The pacing is the worst out of any of the original six and it's completely tone-deaf sometimes. TFA: Han telling Rey about Mi-the force and the Jedi (it's the one scene where Han hasn't regressed into his ANH self). The comedy is honestly so so so bad. TLJ: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. The pacing is ridiculously slow and the characters aren't written well enough to accommodate it. TROS: The opening with Kylo finding Palpatine. The pacing is awful in the complete opposite way, it's way too fast and the characters aren't written well enough to accommodate it.
For my is what episode III give us -Different planets with their own civilization - Light saber duels - Character development across the triology - A menacing villain -Galactic armies with their own unique armour, vehicules, weapons.. -Some politics to understand "the war" abd the state of the galaxy.
I love your academic yet entertaining way of putting your point across mate. But sith was the best of the prequels I though, and clones is the worst Star Wars movie, just my opinion
I can see how one would prefer TPM over the other prequels, though. TPM is less the 1st installment of a trilogy and more like an overture, featuring characters we don't really get to connect to (or worse, in the case of Jar Jar), which creates the problem of AOTC become a reunion of sorts as well as the true beginning of the prequels...with the characters we barely got to connect with and now we have to catch up with (via the 2nd of 3 wooden and awkward scripts). Also, the problem peculiar to AOTC and ROTS is that they bookend the Clone War. They thus deny us the meat of the war, which we get in 2 solid animated shows (the former of which is no longer canon and the latter of which kicked-off with a lackluster theatrical feature) most viewers probably won't stick wth from start to finish. In terms of standing alone, TPM does that the most, even if ROTS is the consensus "best" of the prequels.
@@The1stFishBone It’s possible upon realizing that some cinephiles place a higher premium than others on how much technical filmmaking, separate from the most advanced VFX in use, can salvage or elevate a film.
What is the merit and purpose of the casino scene in TLJ? I really don't see it. Since you rank it very highly you surely have to enjoy that chunk of it, but why?
Klemensas Kozlovas but it never made Finn doubt about the resistance even a bit doesn't it? In fact Finn was willing to gave up his life for the resistance without a hint of hesitation in Krayt. And it doesn't help pacing the movie at all, heck it halts the pace of the movie into a grinding halt!
Klemensas Kozlovas when the motivation of the scene is in the opposite direction of the main plot, then no, it doesn't help the pacing of the movie, it destroys it completely. And by what you are saying, that even corroborate my views that DJ's revelation does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to Finn's dedication to the Resistance.
Klemensas Kozlovas I don't mean to be mean, but please learn to structure your sentences better, it's confusing trying to read your post. But let's get back to the argument, Finn and Rose is not just failing, they are ACTIVELY FORGETTING what they are doing! Their attention was quickly side tracked to do other stuffs when THEIR FRIENDS ARE RUNNING FOR THEIR LIVES AT THE TIME BEING. The motivation quickly go against the main plot and it stops the pacing of the chase sequence into a screeching halt because the whole Canto Bight scene DIMINISHED THE SENSE OF URGENCY for the rest of the resistance, you don't feel these two need to be hurried anymore when we cut from the chase sequence to the Canto Bight scene. From the stupidity of parking their ship at a public space, to playing with the horses, these two doesn't even seemed to remember what their objectives was! Now from a plot stand point, it doesn't even propel the plot! As anything the character DJ does are all pointless, he didn't make Finn question the "binary moral", he doesn't change the dynamic of the chase, he did not do anything at all... The prize of the Canto Bight sequence is basically nothing. So to recap, 1. Stops the pacing into a screeching halt 2. The reward is pointless to the plot.
Klemensas Kozlovas picky? Your entire premise of the Canto Bight sequence is that it helps the pacing of the movie, spoiler alert, IT DOESN'T! The giant WORM sequence ESB, was a direct continuation of a running away sequence, while here the Canto Bight sequence is a parallel plot that is running in conjunction to the main plot. There's a huge difference there. I'm starting to believe you don't even know what good pacing in a movie is...
The sad thing is that that episode has a shit ton of good thing better than Lukes cameo, but most fanboys Will say that thats the best part of the episode and the episode would have beeing shit without it, theres More in Star wars or even the mandalorian that you can chew than just fanservise all the Time. In fact that was the main reason i get hooked to beggin with, it finally get rid of the skywalker or jedi drama to finally focus in the More interesting parts of the Galaxy, but screw it Star wars isn't Star wars without the skywalker and the jedi, thats like saying game of thrones isn't game of thrones without the Targaryen or the dragons. In fact focusing in the Targaryens and the dragons was what bring GOT to its downfall, the same shit happens with the skywalker saga and this godawfull skywalker dinasty.
My mixed feelings about The Last Jedi are more to do with the new trilogy being more of a reboot than I was hoping for. I was hoping for more of a sequel trilogy that would have dealt with what came next after Return of the Jedi. Instead The Force Awakens gives us a new chosen one(nobody important) a new empire (unexplained) a new dark lord (somewhat contradicting the previous two trilogies). The Last Jedi skirts these issues then clears the table making it a frustrating experience.
JJ Abrams just shouldn’t be allowed to end trilogies in general. He didn’t direct Star Trek Beyond and it ended up being far and away the best of the reboot Trek films, which is a lesson Star Wars probably should’ve taken to heart. Then again, nobody else who’s published anything on the matter seems to have any good ideas for Episode 9 either. Maybe it was just doomed to be awful in every timeline.
@@a.morphous66 I still think Colin Trevorrow's script would have been the better outcome. There's a lot of parts I don't love--specifically the lack of Kylo Ren in the story--but even if it was a worse-made film, I still think it would have been more desirable from a thematic standpoint. It feels like a natural progression from the previous two films, and resolves Finn's character arc of fighting for someone (7), fighting for something (8), and teaching others how to do it in order to bring down the First Order from within (9). A stormtrooper rebellion just sounds so cool, even if the film itself would've been a bit of a mess.
It's so interesting how different we are, the prequels captured everything I wanted from Star Wars. I just wanted to imagine what it would be like to live in the Star Wars world and imagine cities built with the technology and how they would train Jedi. It's what I often think about after a movie like it end when the heroes have won and it is a prequel, but it's the same idea of having the heroes in power and control.
The ideas of the prequels weren't bad: showing the higher state of technology and civilization of an earlier era is a solid idea. But George Lucas did a bad job writing and directing them, so they suck. He should have let someone else make the actual films.
@@Tareltonlives Sequel Trilogy’s immediate obstacle: The Original Trilogy’s cast is 3 decades older, and CG de-aging is still subpar, not to mention ethically questionable.
@@Wired4Life2 They would have to do a lot of exposition regardless, but that is considered "bad writing" and "bad directing" The time skip pretty much dooms any connection, and the conscious avoidance of George Lucas to please the toxic fandom made for bad stories regardless.
I don't fit in with your image of fanboy critics. I was never into the expanded universe and a lot of it sounds stupid from what I've heard. The Darth Vader hallway scene was cool, but was essentially empty like Patrick says. I didn't even like Rogue One. I didn't endlessly speculate on what was going to happen because I find it useless when the films are going to end up doing whatever anyways. I'll express what I hope to see, but it's not a demand. Even still, I didn't like The Last Jedi. I liked where TLJ went with Luke, I just don't like the inciting event that led to it. I didn't like the boring space chase. I didn't like Canto Bight not because it had two new characters and a new place but because it felt out of place. I felt that the tension between Poe and Holdo was forced. I thought Rose was boring and the decision to have her sacrifice to stop Finn's sacrifice was dumb given the circumstances. I just didn't like the film
Hot damn thank you for knowing or at least taking the time to look up her name. So many comments here and elsewhere that I agree with, that I wouldn’t have had to cringe at, if the person didn’t list every other character’s name, get to Rose, and call her “the Asian chick” or “what’s her name.”
I felt like I liked TLJ when viewing it in the cinema for the first time, but a day later it had left a sour taste in my mouth, I thinked about it and realised it had alot of flaws, after the hype of hearing the star wars theme and seeing the cool effects and what not had died down, I felt more disappointed with it
I loved ROTS for all the palpatine scenes, his story of Plagueis, and the whole movie just pulling anakin towards the dark side. I loved the settings, the tension, all the lightsaber duels. My favorites are Sith and return of the jedi, I like the epic ending chapters
The problem with the Last Jedi was that the director took every major plot point, and went to the opposite direction... regardless if it made sense or not. The entire casino arc was pointless, its only purpose was to give Finn something to do, since it seems they didn't plan this through. After watching TFA again, you can tell that J.J. Abrahams had a plan, but then the new director took over and changed everything to leave his marc.
I see a lot of problems in the prequels, but them looking and feeling different than the original trilogy is not one of them in my opinion. To me that´s a positive thing, more variety, new ideas. I don´t want the next 100 Star Wars movies we are going to get in the future to look and feel like the OT, that would be insanely boring.
It sort of is. Though as someone who was won over by VII and then adored VIII, I feel like us newbie fans have to just accept that we were the equivalent of a rebound shag, and Star Wars wasn't over its ex as we hoped.
So much yet so little happened in Last Jedi. Nothing about it was bold at all. It wasn't bold enough and wouldn't commit to anything. There was no character development. I like humor in Star Wars, but this was cringey. It had potentially cool moments I would've appreciated, if they didn't undercut each one right after. This was loaded with plot holes. It's very slow, sloppy, and uneven. At least Force Awakens was fun and had good characterization. I actually cared about what was happening.
I didn't like the Last Jedi but for none of the reasons you listed, I also didn't like Rogue One. The reasons for both were primarily story based. Rogue One the story, though has lots of things that happen, doesn't develop it's characters well, and The Last Jedi despite the strong Rey/Kylo arc the rest of the elements of the film fall flat and conflict with it's own internal logic. For example, Finn and Rose. I like new characters, and I think Finn in The Force Awakens was interesting and charismatic. My problem is their whole sub plot is pointless and ultimately detrimental to the Resistance, and how that all ties in with Poe's arc. Another aspect is Luke, I don't mind he thought about killing Kylo, I like that, it's more that his powers at the end are confusing and he reveals that he is not actually there so he can't be killed then dies anyway, it would have made more sense to show his ruse and be safe for the next film or die on the planet at Kylo's hand. The reveal ends up being pointless since he died anyway. Not to mention how that whole power works is confusing, not from a nerdy canon standpoint but from the movie's logic. Like so is it a hologram in someone's mind or is it an actual illusion?
Bradford Jones So, I only really have an answer for the Luke question. He was astral projecting, something the movie set up with Rey and Kylo's Force bond. Luke projected his image to Crait to give the Resistance long enough to get away, but the amount of energy it took killed him (possibly from the distance involved, or the fact that he had cut himself off from the Force for several decades).
But that's just it. At no time has there been an indication on a limit to the force energy someone can use. Yoda didn't shorten his life when he lifted Luke's X-Wing. He died because of extreme old age. Obi-Wan was struck down by Darth Vader. The power someone has in the force is directly related to how "in tune" and individual is, not by how much "energy" it takes. But the bigger problem for me was the narrative one. Why the ruse to trick Kylo and protect himself only to die seconds later? Why not have Luke be there use the force to stall and then sacrifice himself Obi Wan style, OR do the projection thing, trick Kylo, and then live to fight another day? It's a big reveal that he is merely a projection, but it doesn't matter because Luke dies anyway. While unexpected it doesn't serve the story to have him show up as a projection, reveal the twist and then he's dead. It's a bit like if you had a spy thriller where someone is revealed to be a double agent but then still helps the good guys. While a surprise, it doesn't help the story. The ruse literally doesn't matter because the character still does what they have been doing the whole time and the narrative proceeds as it would have. In The Last Jedi, Luke still dies the surprise is only that he's not there but if he was or wasn't is inconsequential. The fact that he is not there is only for the audience to feel surprised. Kylo while frustrated, couldn't possibly know that Luke died so for him he's just as frustrated with Luke as before. And as far as the Resistance goes, if he had been killed on the planet at that moment they still would have escaped. Him not being there but dying anyway doesn't serve anything.
"My problem is their whole sub plot is pointless and ultimately detrimental to the Resistance, and how that all ties in with Poe's arc" Yes. That is the point. You need to fail in order to grow. All the arcs have some element of failure to them, and while some may narrowly dismiss that as "bad storytelling", it's very deliberate on Johnson's part. "The reveal ends up being pointless since he died anyway" The whole point of Luke force projecting is it's a feat we haven't seen up to this point in the Star Wars universe; it's so mind boggling and in line of characterization for a Jedi. He proves that he will never harm Kylo by doing this. If he had shown up in person, he would've been blown apart by the walkers. " it would have made more sense to show his ruse and be safe for the next film or die on the planet at Kylo's hand" Again, he would have been blown apart by the walkers. Basically everyone in the galaxy will think Luke is some sort of God after this. No one necessarily knows that he is dead. Pretty much gonna go down as the most powerful Force user in the galaxy. Dying at Kylo's hand would essentially be a retread of the Han Solo death and make Luke look less powerful as a Force user and less tenacious as a thinker. From the suggestions in Hamill's acting to the score and the script, it's obviously implied that doing such a bold feat would take a massive toll mentally and physically on whoever attempts it. Dude's red and sweating when he does it! This is a pedantic point, but he's less "dying" and more becoming one with the force - the binary sunset reflecting his fulfilled aspirations to get off Tattooine, and the peace he's made with the past and his own personal failings.
We go on about how a lot of studio films need to have more creative voices, taking more risks instad of recycling past stories but someone like Rian Johnson brings his fresh vision to something like Star Wars, new concepts while continuing the larger story, and we trash everything he brought to the mythos. I could go on. We even trashed the original creator of Star Wars for all the new additions he brought to his own universe. Don't even get me started on Josstice League.
I’m watching this as post-TROS therapy. I loved TLJ, and I haven’t been able to stop thinking about 9 and how soul crushing it was for me in the theater.
Big same. It's still so unbelievable to me that people hate such an impressive piece of cinema. I've always _enjoyed_ Star Wars, but TLJ made me a superfan. I actively sought out additional material, and I boned up on the EU lore. TROS, on the other hand, feels like a betrayal of everything that came before. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm just a fan of Johnson's cinematic vision (I've loved everything he's touched) more so than a general Star Wars nerd.
@@thewhatness I feel like I'm in that boat - not least because IX put a huge hole in my fondness for VII. What are your views on the other films, out of curiosity? I was a longtime Star Wars sceptic - respect the OT but only really love Empire and I still despise the prequels - so I felt like VIII was Johnson not just considering what would make a good story anyway, but wanting to give the new fans a Star Wars to call their own. So Rey actually properly becomes the protagonist, Finn goes through a struggle of learning to believe in and fight for something bigger than himself which I don't think we'd had before in SW, at least not to the same degree. And Kylo steps out of the shadow of his influences to cement himself as a different breed of villain. And then that all went down the chute.
@@gannonhunt4284 No it wasn't. TLJ was garbage that didn't even look, feel, or sound like Star Wars. That wasn't Luke Skywalker LOL, even Mark Hamill agrees.
The long gap was a knightmare. I didn't have a VCR. Had to wait till Xmas when one of the 4 TV channels 'might' show 1 of the OT. Struggled to find the books. Todays whiney SW fans don't know how good they have it.
How good they have it? With what having to constantly watch the OT if we want to see good Star Wars? Watch the prequels if we want to see passable but still subpar Star Wars, or watch the sequels if we want to see how you ruin Star Wars?
"I often think about how lucky we all were that the best stuff came out when we were the most impressionable." This applies to everyone no matter when they were born or when they were most impressionable. Human brains are wired to have fond memories of the experiences they consume between certain impressionable ages. This is why I like cartoons from the 80s and are less interested in the 90s, but my younger friends like 90s cartoons and are less interested in the 80s. So, Pablo Hidalgo's generation is no more lucky than any other one in this sense.
That is the whole point of his tweet, right? He is not trying to actually argue that he is lucky, he is commenting on the fact that everyone perceives the stuff from their childhood as the best. He is saying that new content (no matter how good) will NEVER make you feel the way you did as a child. No one will ever love something in the same, obsessive, blind to flaws, way that we look back on things from our childhood. TL;DR His tweet has a heavy coating of sarcasm.
I think for a significant porion of the "fandom menace", the primary story development for Star Wars has been happening in Expanded Universe novels since the 90's.
George Lucas let his creation slip from his grasp, most likely because he can envision the scope of it while at the same time utterly fail at executing the minutiae of his world in a proper screenplay.
The irony is that George Lucas doesn't acknowledge any of the EU material himself as he has stated multiple times. According to him, the only SW content that matters are the movies and the clone wars show.
I just thought it was poorly paced with a confused tone and crap dialogue and the finn Rose relationship felt tacked on as an afterthought with no build up
About your point at 7:11...the OT is about a destroyed, lived in universe, yes. But that universe at some point (in the prequel era) was shiny and new. So it makes sense to make the prequels bright, vibrant and full of life that was said to be dead because it sets up for all of that to be destroyed.
3:57 This is straight up untrue. Pure historical revisionism. The TRUTH is 70s fans HATED return of the jedi, they hated the Ewoks, they accused Lucas of pandering to children (as if the movies hadn't always been made expecting to sell toys in the first place) , basically the last SW movie fans liked was the second one.
People always say The Last Jedi does something new but what is that? Putting the end of Return of The Jedi in the middle of Empire Strikes Back? The Prequels moved the story forward the Sequels offer nothing new.
You know what I miss from the old movies? The joy. At the end of Episode IV and VI everybody fell around each other's necks and they had their happy ending. Including the bad guy (!) I so hope the sequel trilogy will end well at last.There was a celebration at the end of Episode I, too, but we didn't really care about the characters so we couldn't be happy for them. But that was the point of the prequels: showing the weaknesses of the people who at the time before the Empire would have had the power to save things. Depicting the characters as relatable for 3 movies and then killing everybody off would have been even more dissatisfying. The world we see there is stiff and antiquated and cold because it's a decadent, stagnating society that will allow no new influences and is thus on the verge of being destroyed.And that the beginning of Episode VI is not about rescuing Han but about learning how a true Jedi operates. Luke gives Jabba and his minions every chance to free Han without violence and fights back only at the very last moment in defense. It's not boring or stupid but deeply philosophical.
Late to this video, but my 2 thoughts: 1) "there's no wrong way to watch a movie" ... until ... you see the other video by Patrick telling you "you're watching movies wrong." & 2) I agree w much of your analysis, but I disagree w your assessment of the Darth Vader scene in Rogue One. For me it most certainly served a purpose & deepened the Vader character. For the first time in all of the Star Wars films you finally saw why Vader was so feared across the galaxy. Not the Empire, but Vader specifically. It's really the only time in all the films he does something that would strike fear in everyone.
No offense, but this video is basically just your typical Last Jedi defender dismissing out of hand people's complaints with the movie "you just didn't like it cos you didn't get what you wanted". The only thing I "wanted" going into TLJ was a good movie.....which imo TLJ isn't for a whole host of reasons. 12:20 What's wrong with not liking Luke's characterization becasue it wasn't where he was 30 years ago? We followed his journey, development and characterization for 3 movies. Then in TLJ he's completely different and the only "explanation" we get as to how he got this way is a few seconds worth of flashbacks. I'm sorry but that's objectively bad storytelling. If you want to change a well known character so dramatically then you have to EARN it. As a film maker it's your job to convince people that it makes sense that the character we know could change this much. You can't just give some lazy, halfhearted explanation and then complain that people didn't like it just becasue he wasn't the way we wanted him to be. JJ, Rian and the people in charge at Disney have literally talked about how they had to come up with a reason for Luke to be out of the way becasue every time they didn't he took over the story. That is not good storytelling. That's letting the story you want to tell dictate how your characters will act. That's essentially the fundamental problem that I and many have with TLJ (and the entire Disney era) so much of it is just cheap, lazy writing. I don't see any of this EXCITING NEW DIRECTION that you defenders talk about. What exactly was new in TLJ? Essentially all the entire squeal trilogy has done so far is undo the original trilogy in order to give the future movies a more blank canvas to work with. It retroactively ruins the entire original trilogy and makes the characters journey's and development there meaningless. All done just so Disney can have their new, young characters (with actors they can pay significantly less and have around for MANY years) be the REAL heroes. They're literally just going to fill the roles that the OT characters did. It's cheap and lazy storytelling at it's finest. I'm honestly incredibly disappointed that you're clearly letting your own fanboy love of the movie stop you from seeing the flaws it has. You sound just like the rabid Snyder BvS defenders "it was totally explained why Batman is now a reckless killer, you just don't like it cos it's not what you wanted. Zack Snyder subverted out expectations so that makes it a great movie". You're giving TLJ a pass for the exact same things you (rightl;y) criticize stuff like BvS for.
Yeah, and the same points frankly applies to the scene you are referring to. I really liked the episode, but a lot of fans are literally calling it ''the best moment in Star Wars history'', simply because it's a flashy scene of a certain character being a badass. It adds nothing to this character (not spoiling it if anyone hasn't seen it) that we do not already know. We know he's a badass. It's just a shinier version of it and fans are eating it up and proclaiming that it's better than all the scenes in the sequels and prequels combined.
12:20 I don’t like the Finn and Rose subplot because of the general disregard I feel the movie had for Finn’s character. He was introduced in the force awakens as a main character, and as a kid, I actually thought he was the main character because of the significant amount of screen time devoted to him in the beginning. But in the rise of Skywalker, they put him in not even the B plot, but the C plot. Not only that, but the mission they spend the entire movie going on makes them no progress in their goal to help the resistance or in their growth as characters. Finn actually regresses between the force awakens and the last Jedi back to being a character who wants to bail out on the resistance, and then he is supposed to learn from Rose what he ALREADY LEARNED FROM REY IN THE FIRST MOVIE. I am not someone who has read any of the expanded lore content for Star Wars, and I intend to stick with the movies, and yet I disliked what you claim to be disliking “because it doesn’t mention the lore from previous movies”. I do not like the Finn and Rose subplot because I was invested in the CHARACTERS, and the movies ignored them.
I will say, I am not a Star Wars fan, but I am impressed how you manage to play diplomat for the Star Wars fandom; poking holes at the irony of fans expectations yet respectful of their love for the universe.
Great analysis of Star wars. Where I got a little hung up is at 11:58. I feel it is less about not connecting with Starwars of old, and more about delivery. They relied to much of suspension of disbelief, rather than showing us why we should believe it. It is taking the practice sequences out of any movie.
the list that starts from 12:00 is just ... well wrong, This is listing the "mainstream" complaints but not what me and most of my friends disliked about the movie. This reduces the deceived fans to just stupid people hyped by their own expectations.
17:00 you mention that star wars is a big story that will keep going. To me thats the problem right there. Its a big world with many stories. We shouldn't be seeing the same one over and over. We don't need 9 movies centered on young jedi apprentices with difficult paths to then fight sith lords with a giant evil army. Like star wars is a universe FAR FAR FAR bigger than that. It's like saying every story based in greek myth has to be about Hercules. No there's hundreds of myths with MANY different themes and purposes. We shouldn't just keep seeing the same story beats over and over.
The Prequels were a totally different era, one trilogy is around the fall of a great Republic, the other is the fall of an evil Empire. People that idolize the Original trilogy so much just cause of the feeling and tone, not giving a shit about the whole story are why we got the Sequels we did. They were obsessed with copying everything about them and forgot to show us a new and different era in Star Wars. By pretending the galaxy would be exactly the same way it was in the Original trilogy you are disrespecting the Original trilogy and Star Wars as a whole by not moving the story into a new era that was showed at the end of Return of The Jedi. The Prequel haters are most the reason the Sequels are so awful.
Holy crap, you're one of the only people I've heard who (like me) thinks Phantom Menace is the best prequel. It feels to me like the movie George Lucas was actually excited about and wanted to make, before everyone yelled at him for ruining everything and he gritted his teeth and gave us two more half-assed prequels, mostly shot on a sound stage so he could have air conditioning while he drank coffee and mumbled "faster and more intense".
I think you miss the point of the Vader hallway scene. It’s the first time we see Vader being the scary killer that were told he is in the original films but never see him do any thing or see the dread in the characters around him.
The generalisations made in this video are outrageous. To categorise peoples dislikes as black and white as this is counterintuitive to the points trying to be made. Passing off things that are truly disappointing from a story telling perspective as 'fan nit-picks based on expectations' is pretty saddening.
@@blakeharris58 Perhaps that is what he is asking. Really, though, the Last Jedi is #3 in the ranking? I think Patrick is a genius and is somehow pranking us.
Well you aren't wrong, but that's just calling out the problem not the solution of a better movie. And I think that the problem was clear. The directors took the criticisms of the prequals to heart, but the fans didn't want the same thing as the original(despite what they said). They wanted a logical continuation of the story. The problem was that the main movies were pretty bare bones and the material was not enough to continue the hype on it's own so that sales would continue. Yes the problem was EU. The creators contracted out their canon to contractors and pushed the series to new heights allowing detail and consistency to every plot point. You mention this but side step it like it's a minor issue since the films are separate. That very attitude is why the backlash happened for seemingly no reason. So the prequals come out and they get backlash because they were not a intuitive continuation of the story. The people who are making the Disney canon take a look at this and say fair enough the prequals had nothing to do with the originals we will make a movie that is a logical continuation of the original movies, and that is where they made their mistake. Which Disney the makers of the clone wars should have known better. The people who complained about the prequals were not saying that it was a bad continuation of the OT they were saying it was a bad continuation of the EU which Lucas let be apart of the official story for years. This caused the prequals to do a hell of a lot of justifying to the fans which they did in the form of extra content AKA the EU reborn. Telling complex tales of politics and history. It was something that suited the Prequals in it's shades of gray political nature, and the fans who found value in it were the deep lore lovers who found value in complex details. So noticing that Lucas caught flak for ignoring his own canon Disney ended the EU so that they would not make the same mistake. It was the simple way out and the wrong one. The previous movies had relied so much on the EU to fix their mistakes and further their story that they became dependent on them. The EU and the movies are not separable in the eyes of fans they are one in the same. Few have explored the full depths of the EU, but all know it exists should they wish to go deeper. Fans did not want a sequels to the OT(which the Disney films perfectly adhere to. Luke's characterization being from an alternate ending to the Last Jedi where he went into brooding because he had failed and fallen to the dark side and was only saved by his father.) They wanted a sequel to the EU. They wanted a sequel to the books, the games and perhaps most damningly Star Wars The Clone Wars. They wanted a sequel that was complex and political' detailed and philosophical. They wanted the EU, and no matter how many times the movie makers try to recon it. It will never go away. It's part of star wars and here to stay. Hilariously they would have been better off trying to mimic the prequals. Such grim irony. So yeah of course fans gave better reviews for rogue one. It was the one most like the EU and thus the most like the majority of star wars
1. They don't like lazy Force powers developed in excuse for actual plot with no set up or explanation. 2. They don't like how Rey's powers grow because it has NEVER worked like that for anyone. 3. They don't like Leia using the Force because that isn't what she did 40 years ago and there is no explanation for why she did it, nor is there any follow up because she used it.... it's not even mentioned again. 4. They don't like Snoke's backstory because there isn't one... 5. They don't like Luke's characterization because we have never seen him like that and it defies years of characterization he was previously given. 6. They really don't like the Fin/Rose Subplot because it doesn't connect to the story in any way... and it is a ham-fisted attempt to throw real world politics into a Star Wars movie where they aren't wanted... and its boring. It seems like fans just want and deserve some consistency within a world that has 40 years of lore behind it.
I agree with your take on all these movies, though I think I liked Rogue One a bit more. It felt like a classic 90's Stsr Wars RPG campaign, in a good way.
God this is so on point. The Irony for me is that people seem to be forgetting the original trilogy, these days. It feels like younger people who grew up with the prequels and the cartoons use it as reference when criticizing the new content, but don't actually remember them properly. After the Last Jedi, when people would say Luke was out of character, they would point to him being "the eternal optimist" in the OG trilogy. He really wasn't. He was actually a defeatist and Yoda even called him out on it. Or that we needed the Rogue One Vader scene to see how terrifying Vader was, even though we got that in the OG. Or after Mando season 2, "we finally got Luke being a badass with a lightsaber", we got that in the OG. What movies were these people watching?!
Once you got into the "fan checklist" part I got heavily confused. Mainly since what I wanted was good sequels/good expansion of the series. Due to the fact that the last jedi/force awakens is in and of itself fractured due to both directors wanting different results with it, it got confusing real fast. Not to mention the hand-waved away evil macguffin of the hyperspace tracker and the hyperspace ruining holdo maneuver. I just want something with somewhat explainable reasons/tech/force use that expands the universe. The first order stuff, Finn, Poe, Rose/and Rey seem like good ideas but they didn't portray them properly as in Finn got shelved to a sidequest with rose, Rey got IMMMENSELY powerful for no reason in a snap between movies, Poe gets Unreasonably info-blocked by Holdo, first order got kinda unexplained. I rest my case.
I blame JJ more than Rian. A Rian trilogy would've been better than anything JJ could lens flare and nostalgia photo bomb. I seriously forgot everything that happened in TFA and I've seen it twice. I remember every detail of TLJ and only saw it once in the theater. But for me, a memorable movie is better than a forgettable one, even if it's bad...a forgettable movie is just a waste of time.
@@Isaiah-yw3tw Same. I don't hate JJ, but I think he doesn't handle existing IP too well when it comes to making something that hits 'the feels' and isn't just a 'look, isn't this cool?' collection of ideas. I don't think movies have to have deep characterisation or themes, but they certainly make a movie more timeless and great when they do and I find JJ isn't concerned with that kind of thing OR is simply too preoccupied with not 'offending fans' to have any energy to do such things. I get the sense that Rian started from a concept and fit it into his installment of the series rather than just looking at it as 'okay, what should this character do and how many light saber battles can we fit in?' I don't know how either of them approaches making movies, but I think we have plenty of evidence to show that JJ's very surface level and Rian tends to make generally deeper and richer material and I prefer that over JJ's style. So yes...I hope Rian gets to make something for Star Wars again and doesn't have to worry as much about what to do with the dangling plot threads of something previous and can just do a Rian Star Wars project.
How about no more Star Wars? At this point I would be so much happier if Disney/Lucasfilm left this franchise alone rather than continue to abuse and defile one of my favorite IPs and several of my favorite characters any further. Just give us the theatrical editions of the OT, along with Lucas's special editions and I'm happy. While we're at it, no more Terminators, Ghostbusters, Aliens, Predators, Indiana Joneses, Jurassic Parks, Pirates of the Caribbeans, or any of the other big movie brands that hollywood is continuously trying to milk for all their worth. Let's get some new ideas going rather than trying to endlessly rehash or revamp the great blockbusters of yesteryear. Continue to remaster the old movies every few years, even put them back in theaters every now and then. But let them stand on their own without giving us reason to dread yet another bag of garbage with a beloved title printed on it.
The Last Jedi is my favorite! I know people hate that but it’s true!! I’ve been into SW since 1977 and I’ve enjoyed it all. But the Luke story in TLJ is just so relatable to me that even my daughter told me that Luke reminded her of me. That’s why I love SW the characters have been with me my whole life.
@@konsama1315 No, not because of a dream. This is the problem with confirmation bias. When we don’t like something instead of attempting to understand how characters are written we simply reject what we see and oversimplify the scene. Luke knew that the dark side of the force was growing in his nephew. Luke had dealt with enough of what a potential dark side using Skywalker could do. This was not simply a bad dream by a young force user. This was a potential dark side uprising. How do we the audience know this? By the fact that Luke’s imperfect reaction to his nephew’s struggle with temptation. Was Luke’s judgment clouded? Yes, with no other more experienced Jedi to assist him he did not handle the situation well. Ben then killed all the other students and joined the dark side, so Luke wasn’t actually wrong about the kid, just in how he handled the situation. The broader issue here is this: Luke was not written from the perspective of a young man anymore that younger fans could relate to. As an older man who has raised rebellious teens and young adults I totally get where Luke was coming from. If Ben turned into a psychopath because Luke pulled a lightsaber on him during a dream obviously there was more going on than bad mentorship and teen angst.
@@mykilahsenwilliamsdorsey1495 Luke’s father was the second most evil person in the galaxy, who killed killed countless people, and committed horrible atrocities, and he refused to end his life because he still saw good in him, and all it took Luke to attempt to end kylos life was a dream
@@konsama1315 No my friend you have missed the whole point. 20 year old Luke wanted more than anything to make the galaxy right again if he could just get his father to turn good again. That’s the way 20 year olds who need fathers actually think. I know I’ve been 20. 50 year old men do not think like this, they have been through and seen too much to be that idealistic anymore. That doesn’t mean they no longer have hope. They just have more wisdom. With the rise of the New Order and the dark side Luke sensed that bad things were happening. Young Luke believed that if he could get Darth Vader to return to the Jedi all his problems would go away. They did not . He also thought that if he could just get his father to return to the light that the galaxy would follow. Life just isn’t that simple no matter how much we want it to be that way. He explains this in the movie. He became a legend but that was not enough. This is why I say that this story is where Star Wars actually becomes for grown ups. This story was written for the people who where kids back in 1977 and are late middle age now, just like Luke is in this story. Young people expected Luke to be a bad ass throwing his weight around in the galaxy for the good. In the end he did just that. Projecting himself across the galaxy to save the last of the resistance was the definition of bad ass!
@@kinhamid9665 The response comments like this get have nothing to do with enjoyment. That is not the claim OP made, OP claimed that it was a good movie. Claims of quality can be disputed. By and large no one cares if you liked the movie. People do care about claims of high quality.
What did you like about TLJ? I'm glad you liked it. Most people I know who liked it did so because they liked the Rey/Kylo relationship. I don't hate that, but I also never got attached to either character. So I was looking for Luke, Finn and Poe and there wasn't much going on with any of those.
@@HavardBlackmoor I really enjoyed the Kylo/Rey/Luke storyline - Kylo and Rey have a fascinating dynamic that's actually new to Star Wars. Luke gets a full, complete arc that I find really relatable and powerful - I could go into a whole rant of why I like it, but ultimately I'll sum it up with this: there is a reason why Luke, in his final acts, decides to sacrifice himself so NO ONE ELSE will die, not even Kylo. He refuses to actively attack Kylo, he doesn't hit him at all - because that's how a Jedi should fight. People wanting him to do ninja flips and slice up AT-ATs are how we end up with Yoda with a lightsaber. Poe also gets a great arc, I think him learning that war is not fun and that sometimes you need to retreat, even if it's not the glorious thing to do is a really great progression for him - especially after he got nothing to do in The Force Awakens. Finn's storyline is definitely the weakest - I have a strong suspicion this is because Disney gave the mandate that he and Poe needed to be split up because NO HOMO - but I still enjoy a lot of it. I actually don't mind Canto Bight, in fact I only dislike about one third of that sixth of the movie. I also really like Benicio Del Toro's character, and I think once he comes into play Finn's arc gets kicked into gear - I like Finn genuinely struggling over whether what he's doing is right. I know people say it's a retread of The Force Awakens, but I would argue it's important for his character - it's the second film in a trilogy, everyone is being tested, and here Finn is being tested on whether or not he genuinely believes in the Resistance, or if he's just found himself in the same predicament he was with the Empire First Order I'm just calling it the Empire. Also the porgs are cute
"What seems like these fans want isn't the story, it's a Wookiepedia article." THIS is too accurate! It can't be a coincidence that the people who keep screaming about TFA and TLJ are the ones saying "Rogue One and SOLO are the only good films Disney put out" (despite that they are inferior films from a general writing and filmmaking standpoint from the main ongoing trilogy)
I think a lot of people really liked The Last Jedi but people are much more willing to be vocal about not liking something than the reverse. I loved TLJ and I thought it was the best Star Wars since Empire Strikes back. But I wouldn't comment on it if I hadn't seen hundreds, if not thousands, of people commenting about they hated it
Joseph Miles I completely agree! I saw TLJ with three other friends and we all loved it; we turned to each other afterwards and just grinned. What bugs me is that I can accept it has problems, even some severe ones, but some people see it as the worst thing ever created and refuse to accept that it has both good and bad. I felt so excited to have seen it in the cinema, I wondered if it was the same feeling as people had in '77, '80 or '83. I'm sure audience members then could accept that the films had problems but that overall they are likeable. I don't mind if people disliked this one, but the hatred is so disproportionate. Some vocal people are filled with such vitriol and shout so loudly with their anger, fuelled by echo chambers, and it's so disheartening.
I think you missed an important point. You flirt with it at the end, but never give the devil his due. There has been a subset of the community- many kids who grew up on the prequels- who are responding to this new trilogy like older fans did towards the prequels. The prequels massively expanded the galaxy, it brought in expanded universe elements, it gave writers a new world to play in, and the movies had a distinctive feel. It was not a carbon copy, despite its “rhyming.” They had their flaws, but there is far more good than some people give credit. Btw, I watched the unaltered trilogy recently, and much prefer the special editions. I grew up on those. I love the Last Jedi and feel nothing when people hate it. As a prequel fan, I am used to loving something people hate. No one hates Star Wars like a Star Wars fan. The Empire Strikes Back Revenge of the Sith The Last Jedi The Phantom Menace Return of the Jedi Rogue One The Force Awakens A New Hope Attack of the Clones Solo
This is a great video, but from 12:00 where you list the critiques of TLJ, you're just flat out wrong. People don't like Rey's quick training because she succeeds at everything. For Luke, although his training was also rushed, he suffered because of it. Rey gets everything right the first time, which is uninteresting to watch. We want to see our heroes learn. Leia using the Force doesn't make any sense, not because she didn't do it thirty years ago, but because it had even been established in other canon material she never had training from Luke. It's also inconsistent. She pulls herself through the vacuum of space, what should have killed her, but she can't lift the rocks on Crait at the end, which has to be done by the overpowered Rey. As for Snoke, you wanna know why we even wanted answers? Because the Force Awakens and for example the Aftermath books set him up to be something special. It's not that people don't like Luke because it's not ''their Luke.'' I actually liked old grizzled Luke and his arc, I just hated the way he got there. If he was so integral to the rise of Kylo Ren, they should have showed it to us in more than three different flashbacks. Him killing his nephew out of nowhere is extremely out of character. Now the Canto Bight subplot isn't hated because it's ''new.'' That's ridiculous. It's hated because it's badly paced and badly written, filled with hypocritical messages and propaganda. In those twenty minutes, we have an anti slavery message, an anti animal abuse message and an anti 1% message, which is fine all in of itself, but I don't need that in my Star Wars movie. And there are many more valid critiques of the Last Jedi you didn't cover, like admiral Holdo and Rose, two ''strong independant women'' who suffer from god awful writing. I could go on and on as to why I disliked the movie, but no one's gonna read this anyway... Still a well put together video, man!
That argument in itself is wrong from the outset, Rey doesn't get "everything right first time" at all, certainly not in Force Awakens she constantly makes mistakes and gets her arse handed to her and even in Last Jedi she gets bested by Sidious before Ren kills him so sorry that argument has never stood up.
I really like your videos, even the ones I disagree with. But for this one, I'm not a fan at all... As you said, you're not objective so I should have known. When you said something like "people expected to be rewarded for all the trivia they accumulated", you really sound condescending. You are actually missing one very important complaint about the movie: it didn't feel like a sequel to The Force Awakens. What you called "expectations" about Snoke's backstory, Rey's parents and Luke's fate were actual narratives that were planted in The Force Awakens. Not following up on those narratives shows how much this new saga has no direction: for example, how come J.J. Abrams pitched for Episode IX just days before TLJ release??? We're not being told a three-part story, these movies are just a means for Disney to cash in. The other main complaint about TLJ was pacing; nothing really happens for a significant part of the movie. I can go on about character development (Rey in particular at the end the movie is pretty much how she was when the movie began) and the poor fight choreography, but it's not worth it... It's just a movie.
I liked The Last Jedi, but it had some big problems. Mostly with Finn's plot. He failed at everything he tried to do (not necessarily a problem, story-wise). The problem is that none of his failures effected the larger plot. It's a classic example of the plot driving the characters when it should be the other way around. As a storyteller, if you mitigate the consequences of failures then by the same token you inevitably cheapen successes. Also Holdo and Poe's relationship is baffling. They both want the same thing, they have the same mentor, but they have this cat-and-mouse arc because...she wants to teach him a lesson? Or something? One which I guess he can't learn if he knows what's going on? The resistance is too small and desperate to support an internal power struggle subplot. Luke being a crazy hermit is great in the movie. Yoda is great in it. The duel on the salt flats is great. Leia is great. Rey having nobodies for parents *was* great. The kid using the force in the last shot is great.
i know virtually nothing about the eu but i did grow up with star wars and i do admit that a lot of the "feel" of star wars can be chalked up to nostalgia (for example, to me, the prequels feel like star wars movies, because when i first watched them i was seven and didnt give a shit that they were bad). however i think the biggest issue i had with tlj was that johnson purposefully went out of his way to make it "subversive" without really giving it any substance. finn's arc in the film was an odd rehashing of something he had already learned in tfa (to be heroic, to learn how to fight for others), and on top of that what rose "teaches" him while sacrificing herself at the end about saving the ones you love instead of dying for the greater good.... was something he was already trying to do at the beginning of the movie (with trying to leave so he could find rey). the choice to make poe hotheaded and uncaring about the lives of his fellow squadron members seemed inconsistent from the friendly character we met in tfa who ran to give finn, someone he barely knew, a hug. the casino side plot attempted some kind of anti-exploitation half-baked theme that fell flat when they decided to set the space llamas free... but not the enslaved children. the only expectations i had walking in to this movie was that it would retain the heart and the consistency i liked about the original trilogy, and you CAN do that while also subverting your audiences expectations and allowing your characters to fail. the problem is, to me, it seems like rian johnson put being subversive before everything else, and unfortunately that caused some things to fall flat and left a lot of us with that feeling that something was off.
I think the interesting thing about the idea of time traveling to watch the squeal trilogy as a kid, without expectations, is that for a lot of people, that's how the Prequels ARE. I was 9 when I watched the Originals, but I was ten when I watched Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, and I LOVE them. Like, I'll admit that they have some problems, but I think they are great additions to the star wars saga in a way the The Force Awakens isn't at all. Also, I the 'I don't like sand' line is not so bad, and I don't know why people pretend that it is.
The Last Jedi Finn and Rose scene isn’t bad because its different from the orige trige its because it makes no contextual sense in the movie. They have time to save the horses and talk about gun control while their friends are running for their lives thats why that scene is bad
I see where you’re coming from, but TFA intentionally set up those mysteries: like what has Luke been doing, who tf is Snoke, and who are Rey’s parents. They simply decided not to address this in TLJ-especially the last two.
That's what Abrams has done ever since Alias; he throws out a bunch of "mysteeeeeerious" loose ends to make it look deep and so that he can grab something later and make it look planned. Doing that when it was someone else's job to follow up was cruel, if they follow up he gets credit for the payoff, and if they don't he gets off scott free.
BlueFox94 lol Somehow what Luke has been doing and Rey’s parentage weren’t brought up. It’s so obvious that these people literally do not pay attention at all to the movies they watch. Snoke’s backstory also wasn’t even a mystery set up by TFA. It was fan created speculation. Snoke from TFA to TLJ is no different than Palpatine from ESB to RoTJ
I think this is the only time I've seen the nostalgia argument made, where I agreed with it. Luke's fight scene in the last episode of The Mandalorian also really demonstrated how much Disney (or at least those specific producers) understood the point you make here, as well.
I really like this video and found your perspective very interesting. What I wanted from episode VIII: I wanted a story that felt like the eight installment of this franchise. I wanted to feel the cohesion between this movie and all the way back to The Phantom Menace. I wanted them to explore the force, have Luke teach it and I wanted to get some perspective about this new conflict that has erupted in the galaxy and who is behind it. I'm not mad that this movie didn't give me the answers I wanted, just that it didn't give me any real answer at all. The story just feels tagged on and nonsensical in the overall narrative (so does the force awakens). My problem is how this movie wasted essential screen time on plot lines that didn't benefit the overall structure of the movie, while in the same time cutting down on scenes with Luke. The movie just felt too pretentious while at the same time being lazy and unfocused.
One of my favorite quotes seems appropriate here. "As people age they confuse changes in themselves with changes in the world. The illusion of the good old days." -Steven Pinker.
I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem in this video, and it undermines the entire argument. The Star Wars films have always been simple. Famously, George Lucas based the entire plot on the Monomyth, and most elements were borrowed from westerns, Japanese samurai films, and then fused together with pulp sci-fi serials from the 50s. But ultimately, a very simple idea. There's a hero, a villain, and the two must fight. The biggest, by far the biggest, problem with TLJ was that Rian Johnson was more concerned with deconstructing Star Wars than continuing it. The number of twists that were designed specifically to subvert expectations is simply staggering. Let's go through a few, shall we: Snoke, set up as the mysterious Big Bad, is killed suddenly, and before any of his backstory is revealed. Rey's parents, who were told left her alone on Jakku and who might be the key to her strong connection to both the Force and Luke, are revealed to have been unimportant junk traders who sold her off for drinking money Poe's plan to save the fleet which directly contravenes the orders of his dogmatic commanding officer, actually winds up being a catastrophic failure The charismatic thief who helps Rose and Finn escape the casino actually ends up being a traitorous scumbag who helps the First Order Luke Skywalker's heroic stand against the villainous Kylo Ren actually ends up being an astral projection while Luke himself waits on his distant moon All of these examples go against the fundamental storytelling ideology of the original trilogy. If a character has unexplained powers and doesn't know their parents, then there's a causal link there, it isn't a coincidence; the cocky maverick's plan saves the day, he was supposed to know better than his risk-averse commander; the uber-talented criminal has a heart of gold underneath his gruff exterior, or at the very least has a last-minute change of heart about betraying the good guys. Maybe one twist of this nature might be an interesting way of keeping the audience on its toes, but when the movie is full of them... And that's not to say the original series didn't have twists, but look at the difference: Luke arrives on Dagobah and meets a funny little muppet who annoys him before revealing himself to be the legendary Jedi master. What didn't happen was Luke arriving on Dagobah to be met by a six-foot, musclebound hero who then reveals himself to be a fraud and also reveals "Yoda" to be a myth. The former is satisfying, while the latter is frustrating and disappointing. Darth Vader attempts to lure Luke to the dark side be revealing that he is actually his father, not his father's murderer. What didn't happen was Luke discovering that Vader might be his father, going to Cloud City to confront him and find out the truth, and then Vader revealing that he really did kill Luke's father after all. Han takes his money and runs, but just when they need his help he arrives out of nowhere to provide Luke with support while the latter destroys the Death Star. What doesn't happen is Han and Cherwy taking their reward money and sunning it up on some beach planet while the Rebels get blitzed by the Imperial Fleet. Ultimately, this film is the Anti-Star Wars. It's so intent on wrongfooting the audience that it forgets what made the films so popular in the first place. You're right about the problem being a difference between 8 year olds watching it and 48 year olds. But it's not older viewers wanting to be surprised the way they were when they were kids - it's filmmakers wanting to surprise us the way Lucas did when we were young, which requires a far more complex style of storytelling and results in a film which ultimately doesn't feel like Star Wars and isn't what anybody wanted.
To add on to this, each of the twists you mentioned in the originals gives the characters something to grow from, and ultimately reflect the themes of the story. Yoda being a small alien lets Luke grow past letting his expectations guide him. He must unlearn what he has learned. Vader being Luke's father teaches Luke that Yoda and Ben's ideology is not infallible, and results in themes of overcoming temptation, redemption, and overcoming adversity through family. Han coming back in Episode 4 sets up a theme that most people are inherently good. These twists reinforce the themes from the rest of the story, and are thus satisfying. The alternative twists you mentioned wouldn't fit well with the themes of the story and therefore don't work. Ultimately, most of the themes from the originals are optimistic. On the other hand, many of the twists in the Last Jedi are just thrown in to be there, and frequently they imply themes that run counter to previous movies, which isn't necessarily a problem, if there is some sort of acknowledgement of the differences and exploration of which is correct. This would be deconstructionist. But because it doesn't explore the differences, it seems to just be ignoring or correcting previous films' messages. For example, the difference between the Han twist and the entire DJ plot and twist seems to just imply that that the previous movies were mistaken, and that most people are actually inherently terrible. The Last Jedi goes to great lengths to reverse almost all of the themes from previous films, resulting in a set of really pessimistic themes, but then fails to explore whether the original themes or the new themes are right. So the world that the Last Jedi presents not only bears little resemblance to the tone of previous films, but tells us that the previous films were incorrect, and wrong for being so optimistic.
I agree with a lot of this video, and I think my issue with the movie is exactly what you've pointed out that the audience have a set of expectations from knowing lure that they would like to see or expect. Where I think you're doing the fans a disservice is that little pieces of throwaway dialogue like explaining that leia might have had training to use the force, or why they didn't bother telling Poe Dameron the actual plan etc... Would have really helped with more of an acceptance of The Last Jedi. Just to trivialize it as we don't want this and we don't want that is kind of insulting. Still great thought-provoking video thanks.
My ranking: 1. Empire Strikes Back 2. A New Hope 3. Force Awakens 4. Last Jedi 5. Rogue One 6. Return of the Jedi 7. Solo 8. Attack of the Clones 9. Revenge of the Sith 10. Phantom Menace How I rank the middle ones is subject to change depending on my mood but I'm very confident as to the top and bottom three.
Hey Patrick! I appreciate this video and I do think you make some very valid points, but I also think that you miss the main reason why Star Wars fandom in general disapproves of The Last Jedi. I’ve come to realize that there are really two main usages of the term “Star Wars,” and the lack of distinction people make between them is what causes most of the disagreement between people who loved the movie and a significant amount of Star Wars fans who felt like The Last Jedi betrayed the most important elements of the two trilogies that came before the ongoing Sequel trilogy. First, there is "Star Wars" in the broader sense -- the cinematic universe that began with the original movie in 77, expanded with Empire and Return of the Jedi, then with the Expanded Universe, the Prequel trilogy, the Clone Wars, the spin-off anthology films, and, of course, the new Sequel trilogy. It's become so rich and vast that the potential exists for Disney to tell countless stories across the galaxy and across different eras with new, original characters for decades to come. I think most Star Wars fans, apart some die-hard purists, agree that continuing to explore and expand the larger cinematic universe that is "Star Wars" is a genuinely good thing that they're excited for. But there is also the second usage of "Star Wars", which is in reference to the Skywalker saga (i.e. Episodes I-IX). I agree with your analysis that the Original trilogy, when watched with a critical, unsentimental eye, is filled with a lot of the same issues that angry fans are currently ripping The Last Jedi apart for having (although TLJ does have its own basic narrative problems that are too significant and obvious to be ignored). But what I think they are more upset about is that TLJ, as the second film in the Sequel trilogy, which is itself the third act of a larger triptych of trilogies, completely disregarded the larger narrative function it needed to serve as a film. Star Wars fans care more about the Skywalker saga films than they do about any of the TV shows, comics, spin-off anthology films, etc. (even though they also add to the canon) because they have an expectation that it is all building toward the conclusion of the most highly anticipated trilogy of trilogies ever made. There is an assumption (one that I think they are entitled to make) that there will ultimately be a narrative pay off in this final act, just as the average movie-goer assumes there will be a narrative payoff in the final act of any given film they're watching. Whenever we watch a film that goes completely off the rails, fails to pay off things that were set up in the first two acts, and effectively disregards story elements that were established throughout the plot, it breaks the verisimilitude (the importance of which you emphasized in another one of your videos) and it ruins the narrative flow of the film. The Last Jedi did this on two levels. First, as the second act in a trilogy, it disregarded multiple plot elements that were clearly set up in the first act, The Force Awakens, with the expectation of being payed off or at least expanded upon later. Even tonally, TLJ felt jarringly disjointed from TFA. A perfect example is the final scene of Rey meeting Luke, which was clearly shot and edited with the intention that it would be moment with gravity, both on an emotional level and on a narrative one. It was followed up in TLJ with a cynical/humorous/"subversive" shot of Luke throwing the lightsaber off the cliff and walking past Rey, completely uninterested in her. Like honestly, why would Luke be standing on a cliff all by himself dressed in his white Jedi robes, turn around with an emotional look of recognition on his face when he sees Rey as she holds out a lightsaber he presumably thought was destroyed forever, only to immediately throw it over a cliff and leave the girl who located him on an exiled he specifically chose so he would be unfindable? If you edited those two scenes into one uninterrupted scene it would be offensively disjointed, and that point stands for TFA and TLJ as a whole. As the second act in a trilogy, TLJ threw a wrench in so many plot elements (Leia's survival, Luke's and Snoke's deaths, the Rebellion/Empire dynamic of the Resistance and the First Order) that collectively make it near-impossible to write a satisfactory third act for Episode IX that won’t feel rushed and incoherent. Second, and more importantly, The Last Jedi's failure as a good second act in this trilogy confirmed a lot of Star Wars fans' worst fears when they heard a Sequel Trilogy was being created, which was that it wouldn't provide a satisfactory conclusion to the 9 film long Skywalker Saga that spans three generations. George Lucas said that the Star Wars movies are like poetry; they rhyme. I don't think this has to hold true for the broader Star Wars cinematic universe in general. It needs to continue to surprise fans, as you said in your video. But the first six Episodes of the Skywalker saga, for all their flaws (and you pointed many of them out), were specifically designed to rhyme with one another on a narrative level. The character's journeys shared common elements that were cleverly reworked to compliment one another on a grander scale when the two trilogies were viewed as complimentary acts of a larger, trans-generational story that was greater than the sum of its parts. The Force Awakens (and thus, the Sequel trilogy as a whole) seemed to be continuing that rhyming scheme with the intention that this last trilogy would bring the larger story it to a final, grand conclusion that would expand upon the universe in new and exciting ways, but do so with a respect for the narrative structure the previous two trilogies had already established. And that's why I think so many Star Wars fans were disappointed with The Last Jedi. It felt like, in an effort to free itself from the shackles of Star Wars history and enable itself to pump out Star Wars films indefinitely, Disney realized it had to "let the past die," and even "kill it if [they] have to." Instead of creating the best second act they could for the Sequel trilogy, and thus, the best, most fitting (and narratively consistent) third act they could for the Skywalker saga as a whole, Disney was focused on laying the groundwork to milk the Star Wars cash cow for the foreseeable future until it dies. The vast majority of Star Wars fans are mad in the same way any movie-goer would be mad if a movie they were genuinely hyped for completely fell apart in the third act. The stakes are so high with Star Wars in general because its not just a single movie, nor is it just a single trilogy; it’s a trilogy of trilogies, and it is therefore exponentially more important that the last act (i.e. the Sequel trilogy) stick the landing and deliver an ending that makes the entire Skywalker saga feel cohesive, coherent, and greater than the sum of its parts I know this was quite a long-winded comment but it's the first time I've ever articulated what I think the heart of the issue is and your video helped me get there. I'd love to hear your thoughts and response because I genuinely respect your opinion and I love how much you care about the details that go into your videos. Thanks, looking forward seeing to more of your videos!
Love the presentation. Your theory doesn't do film goers justice. Like Luke destroying the death Star in "a day" is fine if it's emotionally and logically valid because they justify it in emotional and film logic. Rey is awesome because she is. Theres a universal standard of filmmaking and storytelling that the new star wars films dont hit. It's not just about that old feeling exactly, it's about making a good film. Episodes 1,2, 3 have it in their essence somewhere. Eps 7,8 do not. But regardless, a well told story would suffice.
You were doing just fine until you started dismissing the complaints about TLJ. People don't dislike Luke's new arc because that's not where he was when we last saw him, they dislike it because it betrays his core values that we learned about in prior movies culminating in RotJ, ie. that he would never abandon or betray his family and friends; that was the whole point of his final temptation when facing the emperor. Although I didn't have as much of a problem with it, fans don't dislike Leia's powers because she never had powers before, they disliked that scene because it was visually jarring, looked pretty fake, all while introducing *multiple* Force abilities that weren't even *hinted* at, partly because Leia herself was totally underutilized in these sequels. Foreshadowing is an important literary device for setting up exactly these kinds of moments. Fans didn't dislike the Finn/Rose subplot because it didn't connect to prior lore, they disliked it because it was a bunch of pointless, hamfisted moralizing that took valuable time away from other core characters that *very badly* needed more development, like Rey, Luke, and Snoke and Kylo Ren. Even Finn needed more development, but this subplot didn't succeed at this at all, and it ultimately robbed Finn of one of the only emotionally engaging moments in the entire film. Frankly, the whole film was poorly written, with constant missteps, poor pacing and a plethora of logical contradictions. You've done essentially the same thing that everyone does when presented with criticisms of a film they liked, you've confused liking a movie with that movie being objectively good and thematically unproblematic. Sorry, but TLJ is just objectively bad. You can certainly like it all the same though, just don't let that fool you into thinking that makes it good.
of course it does end with a technical cliffhanger, but I can forgive it because I don't really feel like it detracts from the experience, and since you can just watch the opening scene of Episode 4 if you're really curious it's hardly leaving anyone hanging, overall though it stands alone pretty well as a film.
Also I really like the prequels, they're a big hokey melodrama but, when I was a kid I was really super into that I guess because I was enthralled by them. I can say my obsession did peak a bit with episode 1 but that's mostly because I was 10 and episodes 2 and 3 came out more in the shadow of everyone hating them, which I had no idea about before episode 2.
Big thanks to Dollar Shave Club for sponsoring this video and seriously go get yourself some sweet razors www.dollarshaveclub.com/phw
Patrick (H) Willems Damn, you’re right, I only ever watched your videos to know what you use to shave! Thanks, Dollar Shave Club! Actually, no joke, their razors are pretty great
Hi where in the UK are you going?
I would argue your argument that "this is for kids", I have another sci-fi fandom that I follow, the Gundam series, and I learn about Gundam as a kid at almost the same time as I learn about Star Wars.
The difference between the 2 is the new Gundam Thunderbolt movie still give me the same feeling while being a flip to the old stories (the Gundam pilot is an a-hole as opposed to a golden hearted kid as any other Gundam series) and TLJ felt like I have just been lectured about how I should behave.
Gundam have a rich lore too, and god knows the fandom are like walking Gundam Wiki as well, the difference between the 2 series is, the creator of Thunderbolt knows and respected those lore, so even though they're flipping the expectations, fans still love them! Heck I'd argue that Gundam Thunderbolt tried to make the same message as this new Star Wars trilogy, about there's no good or bad side in a war, everything is in the shade of grey, that protecting the things you love is more important than winning a war that you don't even understand, that the poor is always the first to suffer.
Another difference is they make these massages without being preachy!
In the end, I just want to say, no I don't hate TLJ because my nostalgia and expectations hinder me, I hate TLJ because it basically forgot that it is a part of a bigger story, heck it even forgot that it is the 2nd movie of its own trilogy. And we don't expect Rey to be a child of some famous Jedi/Sith or how we expect Snoke as Plagueis, it's just the delivery of how these revelations are made in a way that made it seemed to be important and then to be shown as then not important, if you want to make Rey's parentage that she came from nobody as important, then make a big deal about it! Not just from 2 lines at the almost end of the movie, and for a reference I ACTUALLY THEORISED THAT REY'S PARENTS ARE NOBODIES!
That is my rebuttal on your conclusion.
Patrick (H) Willems lol thnx for reminding me I have to shave
Your video would be useful if you did not reprint dated misinformation about the prequels. The prequels had FAR more practical effects work than the original trilogy. The new sequel trilogy uses far more CGI than the prequels. The models and miniatures work of the prequels was the most extensive of the entire franchise.
Patrick: You get a time machine and go forward to the year 2020.
Me: Yeah... Don’t do it. For your healths sake.
Entire human population wiped out by COVID-19 in the 80s, creating a time paradox
I would not subject my parents to being quarantined with my brother and me for a year. They are good people did nothing to deserve such cruel punishment.
I may be biased because I'm from the generation of the prequels, but from the conversations I've had and witnessed on social media and in general, I believe elements from the prequels are now part of what makes Star Wars a 'Star Wars' movie. The prequels are 'Star Wars' for a whole generation of fans, and now that the generation has grown up, their expectations have been mixed in with the generations of before on what people want from a Star Wars movie.
Interesting perspective, definitely plausible
Lucas is on record saying "every movie I make, I try to make them different." He never set out to recapture the exact same feeling and story of the original movies with the prequels, which is what fans at the time could not have known or expected. They are not flawless of course, but they're not as deserving of the crucifixion they got.
Shamear Ullah It's true. People are actually defending the prequels now.
That is absolutely true., I hate the sequels because they are meant for people who don't like the sequels. They're meant for a different audience entirely.
I think your comment is key, actually. I myself was born less than a year before Phantom Menace came out, so the prequels have always been there (even if I was introduced to them in Lego Video Game form). They have been so much of the lore for me, but I think people like us are also biased for this very reason. I try to stay as objective as possible and keep an open mind to new Star Wars content but a lot of fans like us don’t feel that way. Because they grew up on the prequels, they have basically become biased towards them (or at least, Revenge of the Sith and Clone Wars). To them, the Disney films don’t represent THEIR version of Star Wars, where Jedi were omnipresent saints who were then massacred in edgy, violent fashion (for real, the vast majority of prequel stans are either edgelords or memesters). But what they fail to recognize - and what the original trilogy fans failed to recognize back when the prequels came out - is that those younger fans, who grew up with the newest films, will one day come up and become the majority voice. Pretty soon, when Disney releases more Star Wars films, sequel fans will rise from the rubble and denounce the new movies as not giving them the thrill they had watching the sequels, just like the prequel fans are doing with the sequels. As George Lucas himself once said, “History repeats itself, it rhymes”.
I'm really curious why Revenge of the Sith is the worst in your view. Not criticizing, just genuinely curious.
People shouldn't have to explain or defend their opinions for anything. I liked Prometheus but don't feel the need to write a 5 page essay as to why I like it. We need to look passed fan unanimous decisions based upon imdb user scores and understand that it's all how you feel about the films. I stopped being a star wars fan because the arguing got stupid and if I ever have kids, I wouldn't want them to get into fandom stuff if it means arguing all the time.
Oh danmm take that @Akmon Ra!!!
@@Devilsblood "Not criticizing just genuinely curious"
Well, if you look at it considering ROTS is considered better because the "good" stuff happens in it and strip the fact that the good suff happens it's not really better than any of the prequels and furthermore that the execution of the good stuff is often questionable (the death of Padme is really, really dumb for example) he has a point.
He actually discussed this on Twitter. (I don't personally agree with him, I think Attack of the Clones is easily the worst prequel).
twitter.com/patrickhwillems/status/1034794700463587328
Phantom Menace is the most watchable. Not sure I’ve ever heard that before.
When I was 8, I thought that too and I even liked Jar-Jar. But things change and people grow.
It's definitely the best individual movie out of the pequel bunch, even though its storyline could have been skipped in the grand scheme of things. The podracing scene is exhilarating and it has the least awful bluescreen CGI in the trilogy.
Compared to the insufferable, cringeworthy, vaguely creepy "romance" of Clones and the insufferable CG bore-fest of Sith, I'm actually surprised how rarely I hear it.
aneTix is its a manchurian candidate sleeper agent phrase
aneTix is its what I've been saying for awhile...
It's kind of prophetic how you talked about "the Luke-equivalent" of the Darth Vader-scene, when that exact thing happened in season 2 of The Mandalorian, and fans thought it was the greatest moment ever and proclaimed that "Star Wars has been saved".
Great point.
Patrick: "They don't want themes, they want Wookiepedia articles."
Abrams and Terrio: "Jackpot."
Sand is just the worst though.
MailOrderClone I do not like sand.
But I like Obara Sand
My rules
1. Must say “ I have a bad feeling about this
2. Someone must lose a Limb
@AHL Productions and mace lost a hand and Anakin lost three limbs.
Did Snoke lose his legs, or everything above the waist? Makes you think.
@@PanAndScanBuddy he also lost his hand.
@@PanAndScanBuddy Snoke died at the moment.
Haha pretty much every one of the new Star Wars Visions short films fills both these criteria lol
I come back to this video all the time. The point about the Vader Hallway scene is so on point it hurts. Thank you for this video.
I know, right? Like, the scene looks cool and appropriately horrifying. Yet I'm not surprised at all that it's happening or that Vader is not inflicting damage fast enough to accomplish his mission of obtaining the tape immediately.
Oof
Prescient.
While i respect what this video has to say i have to disagree. I am in me 20s so i really never cared about the expanded universe or ''wookipedia articles'' ,and nevertheless i thought last jedi was a bad movie for the obvious reasons most people think its one ( annoying characters , bad pacing,out of place themes and messages and unlike the original trilogy terrible misfirings of comedy that the movie went out of its way to make ) however for me the biggest reason i can't care about this movie is that it is 2018 and we are still watching the same star wars story told to us in a way to think that it was different . In the end of the movie we are left with the big strong empire controlled by a dark villain and the striving rebelion by a young aspiring hero , so by the end of the movie did it really change anything ? I think if you are to make a stars wars movie 30 years after the original should be something special and have a reason to do it, not make a washed up space adventure with the excuse to sell cute toys because in the end you dont create fans you create contemporary consumers that they wont even remember star wars.
Metalgos Exactly. The Empire-Rebellion thing is exhausting at this point. Even the non-movie material is dominated by it
Metalgos Dude you got me there, im also in my 20's (22 actually) and i couldnt care less for the EU or the canon/non canon thingy mcjigger, I only liked the Star Wars material i had, that were the precuels and original trilogy, and Star Wars Clone Wars (the Gendy Tartakovsky mini series) and The Clone Wars, and all that wookiepedia and EU shit its just annoying to me, TFA was pretty good for me, wasnt the best one, but left some good points, but TLJ just feel like not surprising or empty, it took a lot of points from ESB and some from ROTJ and put some filler on it (and it wasnt as good as the one they put on twinkies) it had some nice elements and i think this saga its not doomed, but this movie could just be better if they just continued the points from the first one, Finn's caracter arc as well as Poe with i have a major issue despite been the only one that had one its pretty childish and looked like it wasnt deep at all, the best of the movie was Kylo and Rey, and even they could had more interesting direccions to go
Aside from the 11 minutes spend on Canto Bight, what doesn't fit with Star Wars thematically?
"annoying characters" is something I just don't agree on and I think you should elobare on for it to make sense. Misfired humour is certainly there, but it's only a little.
I also think I could come up with a better argument for why the movie would be bad than most people who actually dislike it.
Look man sure if for you the characters and the themes ( aside from canto bight ) worked that's really fine and i am happy for you liking the movie ( i am not beind sarcastic ) , however i am really not interested in elaboarating more on my opinions on a youtube comment section just like you just claiming that you can make a better argument from the "people that dislike the movie ".
+Metalgos
Why even bring something up if you're unwilling to discuss it.
You also talk about the "obvious reasons most people think it's bad", and you mention themes, which made me think you must be smarter than most people who are talking about their dislike as themes is something that actually matters in Star Wars and not logic.
Just wanted to say im really loving the half film half video essay style you got going on here, it's really engaging.
Damn coming back to this from a twitter post and Mandalorian season 2 finale, on point
"The characters once again talk like normal people. The protagonists were relatable." specially in the Mandalorian. People giving huge shit to the Sequel trilogy(not as much as the Prequels back in the day) but always feel like an incubation process. The creators listen what work in the beta version, and fix the glitches in the process.
I have noticed that many people who were kids when the prequels came out actually liked them...
Just saying...
Can confirm!
That doesnt mean they are good movies. It means people see things through nostalgia tinted lenses
@@coalitionofseekers9572 OR, they realize that Lucas was making movies for CHILDREN and young people, not their grown, entitled parents...
@@THEAdmiralXizor I always hear this argument. You know its possible to make a movie for kids that adults enjoy as well. Also I was 13 when Phantom Menace came out and I thought it was terrible.
@@coalitionofseekers9572
"I have noticed that many people who were kids when the prequels came out actually liked them..."
People can have different opinions. No big deal.
I was born in 76, and although I didn't see Star Wars in theaters, I saw the Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi in theaters. And, I had to wait for what seemed like an ETERNITY with nothing but what's now called the expanded universe, or, "Legends."
I know that feeling, of the original trilogy being, "pure," and profound, and it was probably the thing that was the most constant presence during my childhood in the early 80's.
Even though I actually enjoyed and celebrated the prequel trilogy when it finally arrived, I still always preferred the orig trig.
But, now I absolutely CONSUME everything new that is Star Wars lol from, "The Clone Wars," and, "Rebels," to, "Rogue One," and the, "Resistance series."
If it's Star Wars, I'm there!
Nothing will ever be as good as the original trilogy, so I try not to get my expectations too high or unrealistic. Because that's a recipe for disappointment.
Instead, I just enjoy the ride. And my kids love everything Star Wars, too.
The worst thing about being a Star Wars fan isn't any of the decisions Lucasfilm has made, before or after Disney took over from George Lucas.
It's the cadré, that vocal minority of pissed off, "fans," who spend most of their time talking trash about Kathleen Kennedy, Rian Johnson, and Disney. As if they want to spread their destructive attitude to as many other people in the fandom as possible, so they'll feel more justified with their negativity.
And, it's also the ONE thing that my kids are having to deal with, too. As they try to navigate through their favorite clips on RUclips, or discussions with other fans.
That element of the fandom COULD have just turned to another property, like Marvel, or anything else that didn't piss them off so much lol but instead there are dozens of RUclips channels dedicated to nothing else but spreading as much HATE and vitriol throughout the fandom as possible.
And, that must really suck lol to be them! 😂
Yes. I am that 40 something year old white dude who still loves Star Wars lol but I'll be honest, I don't love EVERY aspect of decision. And if I hated it as much as some Star Wars fans seem to lately lol I'd try being a fan something else, without question.
TL;DR "don't be so negative, mmaaaaaannn. they're negative so i'm in the right."
@@APAL880 actual TL:DR "Don't scream at everyone online because you personally didn't like a movie."
BEEP BOOP, DO NOT QUESTION QUALITY, ONLY COOOONSUUUMMMME
Well pal sorry to tell you this but those guys are just like you. Instead of talking about the toxic fans they want to talk about a movie they think is really bad. It s as simple as that. You don t have to listen to them or talk to them but what can we say....we love to argue. If you want to consume anything they give you....that s fine just don t ask other people to Be ok with it. We are not even STAR WARS FANS.....we love a lot of media like anime, marvel and many other things but it just surprises us how bad they did to star wars and wanna talk about it. So yeah we may still talk shit about star wars but we have moved on to enjoy other media while talking how bad it has gotten...BECAUSE it s fun and the topic keeps on giving apparently.
the fact that you used FF7 Remake for that "what you expect but shinier" line is hilarious in retrospect for how bad an example that turned out to be xD
conceptually, this reminds me a lot of lindsay ellis' series on the hobbit
obv this is not a criticism. academics will often converge
but its two angles on how expectation built on our formative experience afects how we receive newer art. id watch these together, maybe
I think there is an important distinction to make between the two franchises: one is an adaption while the other is an original story. So while you cannot technically "know better than the creator" in Star Wars, you can certainly miss the point the original author intended to make with the Hobbit. It is also noteworthy that the Lord of the Rings trilogy was a very good adaptation that was mostly faithful to the books, so it is in the best interest of the author to do the same when adapting the prequel to ensure that the continuity is maintained and that everything in the story has a purpose
Many people in the comments already pointed it out but the most common criticism of the movie is lack of consistency. Rian Johnson is the kind of filmmaker that prioritizes individual moments over overarching story. And as a result you got a movie that is not consistent with its immediate predecessor, the original trilogy or even itself at times. Things happen because plot needs them to happen, characters flip flop on a whim and nothing feels organic and natural. Looper, Johnson’s previous movie, shares a lot of similar problems.
Yes thank you! Someone else needed to say this! He did the same thing with Breaking Bad. I loved The Fly episode, but it was a dramatic change of pace. As I said in previous comments, TLJ would be a fine TV episode, it's painful to watch in theaters.
@@WesleyWhiteside Dang, those were 4 painful cineplex experiences for me, then. 😅
After the ending of Mandalorian s2 this video its more significant than ever.
How to fix Star Wars: set it hundreds of years in the future (this way the old charicture feel like legends instead because when we last saw them they were young) then expand on the force
Honestly, I have enjoyed every single Star Wars movie in at least some way. I can see negatives in all of them but I tend to prefer to focus on the positives since that is a lot more fun
I'm curious, what do you consider the best and worst parts/moments from each film?
Here's mine:
TPM: Best: The opening is great; Worst: Pod-racing scene, way to long.
AOTC: Kamino is my favorite prequel planet; hate Yoda vs Dooku
RotS: One thing the prequels do is have fantastic openings, love this opening; other than Grevious v Obi, I find the second act so boring.
Solo: Lando and Han interacting; Darth Maul was not needed.
RO: Literally the entire third act; the pacing of the second act is to slow.
ANH: The Trench Run; throughout the film can drag quite a bit(Honorary mention is CGI Jabba)
ESB: Cloud City as a whole;the humor
ROTJ: The Space Battle;the 40 minute opening
TFA: The Lightsaber fight OR the cinematography;C3PO being useless
This is where I piss everyone off.
TLJ: I LOVE Luke's ark, one of my favorite arks in Star Wars; The humor is equal to the prequels
@@AlexStudiosChannel well to me I enjoy podracing but otherwise the tattooiine part drags our.
AOTC: I enjoy obi looking for jango and the arrival of the clones but creepy Anakin flirting is cringy.
ROTS: probably my favourite of them all.
SOLO: starts slow but ends great
RO: Same as solo
ANH: same as you.
ESB: I like a lot
ROTJ: badass luke is great ewoks are bad
TFA: kylo ren was an interesting villain and the first half was fun. Second half was a copy of a new hope.
TLJ: I enjoyed all the Rey, Kylo and luke parts. Everything else was less interesting.
@@AlexStudiosChannel I'll give my two cents
TPM: The opening, probably the best introduction to Star Wars (sorry ANH). The Tattooine section of the movie can tend to drag a little.
AOTC: The ending duel with Obi-Wan and Dooku (I don't mind Yoda fighting with a lightsaber at all but what precedes it is much better) is perfection. The fireplace scene is pretty dodgy.
ROTS: Anakin murdering the Separatists on Mustafar while Palpatine declares the Galactic Empire Godfather style. The "It's only because I'm so in love" scene is honestly worse than anything in AOTC.
Solo: The Kessel Run is just really fun to watch. The movie is far too dark for a Star Wars film and it doesn't even match the tone of the movie.
RO: The Vader scene is alright (there's a lot of weird time jumps and Vader doesn't have nearly as sophisticated choreography as the Jedi do in the prequels when they destroy Droids). Tarkin being an absolute buffoon and making baffling decisions throughout the whole movie.
ANH: The destruction of Alderaan and Tarkin's sheer malice during it is fantastic. The Jawa segment of the movie is the closest I get to being bored throughout 1-6.
ESB: The duel on Cloud City is amazing. C3PO is honestly worse than Jar-Jar here.
ROTJ: The battle over the Sarlacc is utter perfection. The pacing is the worst out of any of the original six and it's completely tone-deaf sometimes.
TFA: Han telling Rey about Mi-the force and the Jedi (it's the one scene where Han hasn't regressed into his ANH self). The comedy is honestly so so so bad.
TLJ: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. The pacing is ridiculously slow and the characters aren't written well enough to accommodate it.
TROS: The opening with Kylo finding Palpatine. The pacing is awful in the complete opposite way, it's way too fast and the characters aren't written well enough to accommodate it.
You’re probably the biggest Star Wars fan. I personally only like the original trilogy. The rest suck
Your the light in the dark side forest that everyone should follow. Understanding the negatives but focusing and trying to find the positives.
For my is what episode III give us
-Different planets with their own civilization
- Light saber duels
- Character development across the triology
- A menacing villain
-Galactic armies with their own unique armour, vehicules, weapons..
-Some politics to understand "the war" abd the state of the galaxy.
Plus ALL the memes and 2 figurative brothers dueling to the death *inside a volcano*
Who's the menacing villain?
Bertrand D darth sidious
Where's the character development? (Edit) oh across the trilogy. Eh idk if the characters change all that much actually.
Sam which character are u talking about
I love your academic yet entertaining way of putting your point across mate.
But sith was the best of the prequels I though, and clones is the worst Star Wars movie, just my opinion
Before watching this video I didn't know it was possible to have any other opinion.
I can see how one would prefer TPM over the other prequels, though. TPM is less the 1st installment of a trilogy and more like an overture, featuring characters we don't really get to connect to (or worse, in the case of Jar Jar), which creates the problem of AOTC become a reunion of sorts as well as the true beginning of the prequels...with the characters we barely got to connect with and now we have to catch up with (via the 2nd of 3 wooden and awkward scripts). Also, the problem peculiar to AOTC and ROTS is that they bookend the Clone War. They thus deny us the meat of the war, which we get in 2 solid animated shows (the former of which is no longer canon and the latter of which kicked-off with a lackluster theatrical feature) most viewers probably won't stick wth from start to finish. In terms of standing alone, TPM does that the most, even if ROTS is the consensus "best" of the prequels.
@@The1stFishBone It’s possible upon realizing that some cinephiles place a higher premium than others on how much technical filmmaking, separate from the most advanced VFX in use, can salvage or elevate a film.
What is the merit and purpose of the casino scene in TLJ? I really don't see it. Since you rank it very highly you surely have to enjoy that chunk of it, but why?
Klemensas Kozlovas but it never made Finn doubt about the resistance even a bit doesn't it? In fact Finn was willing to gave up his life for the resistance without a hint of hesitation in Krayt.
And it doesn't help pacing the movie at all, heck it halts the pace of the movie into a grinding halt!
Klemensas Kozlovas when the motivation of the scene is in the opposite direction of the main plot, then no, it doesn't help the pacing of the movie, it destroys it completely.
And by what you are saying, that even corroborate my views that DJ's revelation does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to Finn's dedication to the Resistance.
It was allll worth it...because Rose said so...lmao
Klemensas Kozlovas I don't mean to be mean, but please learn to structure your sentences better, it's confusing trying to read your post.
But let's get back to the argument, Finn and Rose is not just failing, they are ACTIVELY FORGETTING what they are doing! Their attention was quickly side tracked to do other stuffs when THEIR FRIENDS ARE RUNNING FOR THEIR LIVES AT THE TIME BEING. The motivation quickly go against the main plot and it stops the pacing of the chase sequence into a screeching halt because the whole Canto Bight scene DIMINISHED THE SENSE OF URGENCY for the rest of the resistance, you don't feel these two need to be hurried anymore when we cut from the chase sequence to the Canto Bight scene.
From the stupidity of parking their ship at a public space, to playing with the horses, these two doesn't even seemed to remember what their objectives was!
Now from a plot stand point, it doesn't even propel the plot! As anything the character DJ does are all pointless, he didn't make Finn question the "binary moral", he doesn't change the dynamic of the chase, he did not do anything at all... The prize of the Canto Bight sequence is basically nothing.
So to recap,
1. Stops the pacing into a screeching halt
2. The reward is pointless to the plot.
Klemensas Kozlovas picky? Your entire premise of the Canto Bight sequence is that it helps the pacing of the movie, spoiler alert, IT DOESN'T!
The giant WORM sequence ESB, was a direct continuation of a running away sequence, while here the Canto Bight sequence is a parallel plot that is running in conjunction to the main plot.
There's a huge difference there.
I'm starting to believe you don't even know what good pacing in a movie is...
The R1 hallway point is even more accurate now after Mandalorian season 2 finale.
The sad thing is that that episode has a shit ton of good thing better than Lukes cameo, but most fanboys Will say that thats the best part of the episode and the episode would have beeing shit without it, theres More in Star wars or even the mandalorian that you can chew than just fanservise all the Time. In fact that was the main reason i get hooked to beggin with, it finally get rid of the skywalker or jedi drama to finally focus in the More interesting parts of the Galaxy, but screw it Star wars isn't Star wars without the skywalker and the jedi, thats like saying game of thrones isn't game of thrones without the Targaryen or the dragons. In fact focusing in the Targaryens and the dragons was what bring GOT to its downfall, the same shit happens with the skywalker saga and this godawfull skywalker dinasty.
My mixed feelings about The Last Jedi are more to do with the new trilogy being more of a reboot than I was hoping for.
I was hoping for more of a sequel trilogy that would have dealt with what came next after Return of the Jedi. Instead The Force Awakens gives us a new chosen one(nobody important) a new empire (unexplained) a new dark lord (somewhat contradicting the previous two trilogies). The Last Jedi skirts these issues then clears the table making it a frustrating experience.
Well said
God I wish Rian Johnson did episode 9. JJ did a good job opening up this trilogy, but he never should have been in charge of closing it.
JJ Abrams just shouldn’t be allowed to end trilogies in general. He didn’t direct Star Trek Beyond and it ended up being far and away the best of the reboot Trek films, which is a lesson Star Wars probably should’ve taken to heart.
Then again, nobody else who’s published anything on the matter seems to have any good ideas for Episode 9 either. Maybe it was just doomed to be awful in every timeline.
@@a.morphous66 I still think Colin Trevorrow's script would have been the better outcome. There's a lot of parts I don't love--specifically the lack of Kylo Ren in the story--but even if it was a worse-made film, I still think it would have been more desirable from a thematic standpoint. It feels like a natural progression from the previous two films, and resolves Finn's character arc of fighting for someone (7), fighting for something (8), and teaching others how to do it in order to bring down the First Order from within (9). A stormtrooper rebellion just sounds so cool, even if the film itself would've been a bit of a mess.
It's so interesting how different we are, the prequels captured everything I wanted from Star Wars. I just wanted to imagine what it would be like to live in the Star Wars world and imagine cities built with the technology and how they would train Jedi. It's what I often think about after a movie like it end when the heroes have won and it is a prequel, but it's the same idea of having the heroes in power and control.
I totally agree . The sequels should have been about Luke trying to prevent what happened in the Sequel trilogy, so to speak
The ideas of the prequels weren't bad: showing the higher state of technology and civilization of an earlier era is a solid idea. But George Lucas did a bad job writing and directing them, so they suck. He should have let someone else make the actual films.
@@Tareltonlives Sequel Trilogy’s immediate obstacle: The Original Trilogy’s cast is 3 decades older, and CG de-aging is still subpar, not to mention ethically questionable.
@@Wired4Life2 They would have to do a lot of exposition regardless, but that is considered "bad writing" and "bad directing" The time skip pretty much dooms any connection, and the conscious avoidance of George Lucas to please the toxic fandom made for bad stories regardless.
I don't fit in with your image of fanboy critics. I was never into the expanded universe and a lot of it sounds stupid from what I've heard. The Darth Vader hallway scene was cool, but was essentially empty like Patrick says. I didn't even like Rogue One. I didn't endlessly speculate on what was going to happen because I find it useless when the films are going to end up doing whatever anyways. I'll express what I hope to see, but it's not a demand. Even still, I didn't like The Last Jedi. I liked where TLJ went with Luke, I just don't like the inciting event that led to it. I didn't like the boring space chase. I didn't like Canto Bight not because it had two new characters and a new place but because it felt out of place. I felt that the tension between Poe and Holdo was forced. I thought Rose was boring and the decision to have her sacrifice to stop Finn's sacrifice was dumb given the circumstances.
I just didn't like the film
Hot damn thank you for knowing or at least taking the time to look up her name. So many comments here and elsewhere that I agree with, that I wouldn’t have had to cringe at, if the person didn’t list every other character’s name, get to Rose, and call her “the Asian chick” or “what’s her name.”
I’m in the same boat as you btw, not a fangirl, still didn’t like the movie. I saw TLJ at least twice, but I couldn’t tell you what it was about.
I felt like I liked TLJ when viewing it in the cinema for the first time, but a day later it had left a sour taste in my mouth, I thinked about it and realised it had alot of flaws, after the hype of hearing the star wars theme and seeing the cool effects and what not had died down, I felt more disappointed with it
I loved ROTS for all the palpatine scenes, his story of Plagueis, and the whole movie just pulling anakin towards the dark side. I loved the settings, the tension, all the lightsaber duels. My favorites are Sith and return of the jedi, I like the epic ending chapters
Same!
"It's can't just feed us nostalgia." This quote rings so true in light of what JJ did to episode IX. That movie is literally a Wookie-pedia article.
If that is the case, Wookie-pedia has some serious housecleaning to do.
The problem with the Last Jedi was that the director took every major plot point, and went to the opposite direction... regardless if it made sense or not. The entire casino arc was pointless, its only purpose was to give Finn something to do, since it seems they didn't plan this through.
After watching TFA again, you can tell that J.J. Abrahams had a plan, but then the new director took over and changed everything to leave his marc.
I see a lot of problems in the prequels, but them looking and feeling different than the original trilogy is not one of them in my opinion. To me that´s a positive thing, more variety, new ideas. I don´t want the next 100 Star Wars movies we are going to get in the future to look and feel like the OT, that would be insanely boring.
This video should be part of the grieving process for people still dealing with Episode IX.
It sort of is. Though as someone who was won over by VII and then adored VIII, I feel like us newbie fans have to just accept that we were the equivalent of a rebound shag, and Star Wars wasn't over its ex as we hoped.
Ep 9 was still better than the Last Jedi.
@@KentKaliber Not in the slightest
@@gannonhunt4284 They both suck.
@@qmulus1 I think Episode 8 is pretty good.
7 is alright.
9 is annoying.
So much yet so little happened in Last Jedi. Nothing about it was bold at all. It wasn't bold enough and wouldn't commit to anything. There was no character development. I like humor in Star Wars, but this was cringey. It had potentially cool moments I would've appreciated, if they didn't undercut each one right after. This was loaded with plot holes. It's very slow, sloppy, and uneven. At least Force Awakens was fun and had good characterization. I actually cared about what was happening.
I didn't like the Last Jedi but for none of the reasons you listed, I also didn't like Rogue One. The reasons for both were primarily story based. Rogue One the story, though has lots of things that happen, doesn't develop it's characters well, and The Last Jedi despite the strong Rey/Kylo arc the rest of the elements of the film fall flat and conflict with it's own internal logic. For example, Finn and Rose. I like new characters, and I think Finn in The Force Awakens was interesting and charismatic. My problem is their whole sub plot is pointless and ultimately detrimental to the Resistance, and how that all ties in with Poe's arc. Another aspect is Luke, I don't mind he thought about killing Kylo, I like that, it's more that his powers at the end are confusing and he reveals that he is not actually there so he can't be killed then dies anyway, it would have made more sense to show his ruse and be safe for the next film or die on the planet at Kylo's hand. The reveal ends up being pointless since he died anyway. Not to mention how that whole power works is confusing, not from a nerdy canon standpoint but from the movie's logic. Like so is it a hologram in someone's mind or is it an actual illusion?
Bradford Jones
So, I only really have an answer for the Luke question. He was astral projecting, something the movie set up with Rey and Kylo's Force bond. Luke projected his image to Crait to give the Resistance long enough to get away, but the amount of energy it took killed him (possibly from the distance involved, or the fact that he had cut himself off from the Force for several decades).
But that's just it. At no time has there been an indication on a limit to the force energy someone can use. Yoda didn't shorten his life when he lifted Luke's X-Wing. He died because of extreme old age. Obi-Wan was struck down by Darth Vader. The power someone has in the force is directly related to how "in tune" and individual is, not by how much "energy" it takes. But the bigger problem for me was the narrative one. Why the ruse to trick Kylo and protect himself only to die seconds later? Why not have Luke be there use the force to stall and then sacrifice himself Obi Wan style, OR do the projection thing, trick Kylo, and then live to fight another day? It's a big reveal that he is merely a projection, but it doesn't matter because Luke dies anyway. While unexpected it doesn't serve the story to have him show up as a projection, reveal the twist and then he's dead. It's a bit like if you had a spy thriller where someone is revealed to be a double agent but then still helps the good guys. While a surprise, it doesn't help the story. The ruse literally doesn't matter because the character still does what they have been doing the whole time and the narrative proceeds as it would have. In The Last Jedi, Luke still dies the surprise is only that he's not there but if he was or wasn't is inconsequential. The fact that he is not there is only for the audience to feel surprised. Kylo while frustrated, couldn't possibly know that Luke died so for him he's just as frustrated with Luke as before. And as far as the Resistance goes, if he had been killed on the planet at that moment they still would have escaped. Him not being there but dying anyway doesn't serve anything.
"My problem is their whole sub plot is pointless and ultimately detrimental to the Resistance, and how that all ties in with Poe's arc"
Yes. That is the point. You need to fail in order to grow. All the arcs have some element of failure to them, and while some may narrowly dismiss that as "bad storytelling", it's very deliberate on Johnson's part.
"The reveal ends up being pointless since he died anyway"
The whole point of Luke force projecting is it's a feat we haven't seen up to this point in the Star Wars universe; it's so mind boggling and in line of characterization for a Jedi. He proves that he will never harm Kylo by doing this. If he had shown up in person, he would've been blown apart by the walkers.
" it would have made more sense to show his ruse and be safe for the next film or die on the planet at Kylo's hand"
Again, he would have been blown apart by the walkers. Basically everyone in the galaxy will think Luke is some sort of God after this. No one necessarily knows that he is dead. Pretty much gonna go down as the most powerful Force user in the galaxy. Dying at Kylo's hand would essentially be a retread of the Han Solo death and make Luke look less powerful as a Force user and less tenacious as a thinker. From the suggestions in Hamill's acting to the score and the script, it's obviously implied that doing such a bold feat would take a massive toll mentally and physically on whoever attempts it. Dude's red and sweating when he does it! This is a pedantic point, but he's less "dying" and more becoming one with the force - the binary sunset reflecting his fulfilled aspirations to get off Tattooine, and the peace he's made with the past and his own personal failings.
We go on about how a lot of studio films need to have more creative voices, taking more risks instad of recycling past stories but someone like Rian Johnson brings his fresh vision to something like Star Wars, new concepts while continuing the larger story, and we trash everything he brought to the mythos. I could go on. We even trashed the original creator of Star Wars for all the new additions he brought to his own universe. Don't even get me started on Josstice League.
This is so sad. So much apology to defend a poorly executed movie series failing to evolve after the first 2 entries.
I’m watching this as post-TROS therapy. I loved TLJ, and I haven’t been able to stop thinking about 9 and how soul crushing it was for me in the theater.
Big same. It's still so unbelievable to me that people hate such an impressive piece of cinema. I've always _enjoyed_ Star Wars, but TLJ made me a superfan. I actively sought out additional material, and I boned up on the EU lore. TROS, on the other hand, feels like a betrayal of everything that came before. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm just a fan of Johnson's cinematic vision (I've loved everything he's touched) more so than a general Star Wars nerd.
The Last Jedi was soul-crushing for me in the Theater b/c it was a betrayal. I loved that JJ un-did that entire Dumpster Fire LOL
@@thewhatness I feel like I'm in that boat - not least because IX put a huge hole in my fondness for VII. What are your views on the other films, out of curiosity? I was a longtime Star Wars sceptic - respect the OT but only really love Empire and I still despise the prequels - so I felt like VIII was Johnson not just considering what would make a good story anyway, but wanting to give the new fans a Star Wars to call their own.
So Rey actually properly becomes the protagonist, Finn goes through a struggle of learning to believe in and fight for something bigger than himself which I don't think we'd had before in SW, at least not to the same degree. And Kylo steps out of the shadow of his influences to cement himself as a different breed of villain. And then that all went down the chute.
@@KentKaliber Ep 9 is by far the worst Disney star wars
@@gannonhunt4284 No it wasn't. TLJ was garbage that didn't even look, feel, or sound like Star Wars. That wasn't Luke Skywalker LOL, even Mark Hamill agrees.
The long gap was a knightmare. I didn't have a VCR. Had to wait till Xmas when one of the 4 TV channels 'might' show 1 of the OT. Struggled to find the books.
Todays whiney SW fans don't know how good they have it.
How good they have it? With what having to constantly watch the OT if we want to see good Star Wars? Watch the prequels if we want to see passable but still subpar Star Wars, or watch the sequels if we want to see how you ruin Star Wars?
Strangely the long gap was because George wanted a better toy deal so he had to wait for the licensing deal with Kenner to expire.
"I often think about how lucky we all were that the best stuff came out when we were the most impressionable."
This applies to everyone no matter when they were born or when they were most impressionable. Human brains are wired to have fond memories of the experiences they consume between certain impressionable ages. This is why I like cartoons from the 80s and are less interested in the 90s, but my younger friends like 90s cartoons and are less interested in the 80s.
So, Pablo Hidalgo's generation is no more lucky than any other one in this sense.
That is the whole point of his tweet, right? He is not trying to actually argue that he is lucky, he is commenting on the fact that everyone perceives the stuff from their childhood as the best. He is saying that new content (no matter how good) will NEVER make you feel the way you did as a child. No one will ever love something in the same, obsessive, blind to flaws, way that we look back on things from our childhood.
TL;DR His tweet has a heavy coating of sarcasm.
@@abrahameifert6799 Poor Pablo Hidalgo can't catch a break from being misunderstood by Star Wars fans.
when you're right, YOU'RE RIIGHT
I think for a significant porion of the "fandom menace", the primary story development for Star Wars has been happening in Expanded Universe novels since the 90's.
George Lucas let his creation slip from his grasp, most likely because he can envision the scope of it while at the same time utterly fail at executing the minutiae of his world in a proper screenplay.
The irony is that George Lucas doesn't acknowledge any of the EU material himself as he has stated multiple times. According to him, the only SW content that matters are the movies and the clone wars show.
I just thought it was poorly paced with a confused tone and crap dialogue and the finn Rose relationship felt tacked on as an afterthought with no build up
About your point at 7:11...the OT is about a destroyed, lived in universe, yes. But that universe at some point (in the prequel era) was shiny and new. So it makes sense to make the prequels bright, vibrant and full of life that was said to be dead because it sets up for all of that to be destroyed.
3:57 This is straight up untrue. Pure historical revisionism. The TRUTH is 70s fans HATED return of the jedi, they hated the Ewoks, they accused Lucas of pandering to children (as if the movies hadn't always been made expecting to sell toys in the first place) , basically the last SW movie fans liked was the second one.
That said...what examples of "good", not to mention commercially-successful, film threequels were there before _Return of the Jedi?_
People always say The Last Jedi does something new but what is that? Putting the end of Return of The Jedi in the middle of Empire Strikes Back? The Prequels moved the story forward the Sequels offer nothing new.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Oh wait, you're serious.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@TheSkizz89 prove him wrong, emoji man.
“The Prequels moved the story forward”?
How so? By leading directly into the Original Trilogy?
You know what I miss from the old movies? The joy. At the end of Episode IV and VI everybody fell around each other's necks and they had their happy ending. Including the bad guy (!) I so hope the sequel trilogy will end well at last.There was a celebration at the end of Episode I, too, but we didn't really care about the characters so we couldn't be happy for them. But that was the point of the prequels: showing the weaknesses of the people who at the time before the Empire would have had the power to save things. Depicting the characters as relatable for 3 movies and then killing everybody off would have been even more dissatisfying. The world we see there is stiff and antiquated and cold because it's a decadent, stagnating society that will allow no new influences and is thus on the verge of being destroyed.And that the beginning of Episode VI is not about rescuing Han but about learning how a true Jedi operates. Luke gives Jabba and his minions every chance to free Han without violence and fights back only at the very last moment in defense. It's not boring or stupid but deeply philosophical.
Late to this video, but my 2 thoughts: 1) "there's no wrong way to watch a movie" ... until ... you see the other video by Patrick telling you "you're watching movies wrong." & 2) I agree w much of your analysis, but I disagree w your assessment of the Darth Vader scene in Rogue One. For me it most certainly served a purpose & deepened the Vader character. For the first time in all of the Star Wars films you finally saw why Vader was so feared across the galaxy. Not the Empire, but Vader specifically. It's really the only time in all the films he does something that would strike fear in everyone.
No offense, but this video is basically just your typical Last Jedi defender dismissing out of hand people's complaints with the movie "you just didn't like it cos you didn't get what you wanted".
The only thing I "wanted" going into TLJ was a good movie.....which imo TLJ isn't for a whole host of reasons.
12:20 What's wrong with not liking Luke's characterization becasue it wasn't where he was 30 years ago? We followed his journey, development and characterization for 3 movies. Then in TLJ he's completely different and the only "explanation" we get as to how he got this way is a few seconds worth of flashbacks. I'm sorry but that's objectively bad storytelling. If you want to change a well known character so dramatically then you have to EARN it. As a film maker it's your job to convince people that it makes sense that the character we know could change this much. You can't just give some lazy, halfhearted explanation and then complain that people didn't like it just becasue he wasn't the way we wanted him to be.
JJ, Rian and the people in charge at Disney have literally talked about how they had to come up with a reason for Luke to be out of the way becasue every time they didn't he took over the story. That is not good storytelling. That's letting the story you want to tell dictate how your characters will act.
That's essentially the fundamental problem that I and many have with TLJ (and the entire Disney era) so much of it is just cheap, lazy writing. I don't see any of this EXCITING NEW DIRECTION that you defenders talk about. What exactly was new in TLJ? Essentially all the entire squeal trilogy has done so far is undo the original trilogy in order to give the future movies a more blank canvas to work with. It retroactively ruins the entire original trilogy and makes the characters journey's and development there meaningless.
All done just so Disney can have their new, young characters (with actors they can pay significantly less and have around for MANY years) be the REAL heroes. They're literally just going to fill the roles that the OT characters did. It's cheap and lazy storytelling at it's finest.
I'm honestly incredibly disappointed that you're clearly letting your own fanboy love of the movie stop you from seeing the flaws it has. You sound just like the rabid Snyder BvS defenders "it was totally explained why Batman is now a reckless killer, you just don't like it cos it's not what you wanted. Zack Snyder subverted out expectations so that makes it a great movie". You're giving TLJ a pass for the exact same things you (rightl;y) criticize stuff like BvS for.
Yang the Magician
Subjective opinions are subjective
Dismissive comments are dismissive.
13:08 Holy Crap! Patrick H Willems predicted the future!
Yeah, and the same points frankly applies to the scene you are referring to. I really liked the episode, but a lot of fans are literally calling it ''the best moment in Star Wars history'', simply because it's a flashy scene of a certain character being a badass. It adds nothing to this character (not spoiling it if anyone hasn't seen it) that we do not already know. We know he's a badass. It's just a shinier version of it and fans are eating it up and proclaiming that it's better than all the scenes in the sequels and prequels combined.
SPOILER WARMING TO THE FINALE OF MANDALORIAN SEASON TWO
12:20 I don’t like the Finn and Rose subplot because of the general disregard I feel the movie had for Finn’s character. He was introduced in the force awakens as a main character, and as a kid, I actually thought he was the main character because of the significant amount of screen time devoted to him in the beginning. But in the rise of Skywalker, they put him in not even the B plot, but the C plot. Not only that, but the mission they spend the entire movie going on makes them no progress in their goal to help the resistance or in their growth as characters. Finn actually regresses between the force awakens and the last Jedi back to being a character who wants to bail out on the resistance, and then he is supposed to learn from Rose what he ALREADY LEARNED FROM REY IN THE FIRST MOVIE. I am not someone who has read any of the expanded lore content for Star Wars, and I intend to stick with the movies, and yet I disliked what you claim to be disliking “because it doesn’t mention the lore from previous movies”. I do not like the Finn and Rose subplot because I was invested in the CHARACTERS, and the movies ignored them.
I will say, I am not a Star Wars fan, but I am impressed how you manage to play diplomat for the Star Wars fandom; poking holes at the irony of fans expectations yet respectful of their love for the universe.
Revenge of the Sith at no. 9?!?!?!
*I HATE YOU!!*
Trevor Rogers you supposed to bring balance to the force not leave it in darkness
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Learn to respect opinions
That kind of attitude is what drove me away from Star Wars.
@@Devilsblood you do know that it was a joke right
Great analysis of Star wars.
Where I got a little hung up is at 11:58. I feel it is less about not connecting with Starwars of old, and more about delivery. They relied to much of suspension of disbelief, rather than showing us why we should believe it. It is taking the practice sequences out of any movie.
You damaged them! You can’t put VHS tapes in sand! It's corse, irritating, and it gets everywhere!
the list that starts from 12:00 is just ... well wrong, This is listing the "mainstream" complaints but not what me and most of my friends disliked about the movie. This reduces the deceived fans to just stupid people hyped by their own expectations.
@@fvefve12 more like the history of religions.
He does add the other complaints I frequently see and point out that they're basically the same "flaws" from the original trilogy...
17:00 you mention that star wars is a big story that will keep going. To me thats the problem right there. Its a big world with many stories. We shouldn't be seeing the same one over and over. We don't need 9 movies centered on young jedi apprentices with difficult paths to then fight sith lords with a giant evil army. Like star wars is a universe FAR FAR FAR bigger than that. It's like saying every story based in greek myth has to be about Hercules. No there's hundreds of myths with MANY different themes and purposes. We shouldn't just keep seeing the same story beats over and over.
The Prequels were a totally different era, one trilogy is around the fall of a great Republic, the other is the fall of an evil Empire. People that idolize the Original trilogy so much just cause of the feeling and tone, not giving a shit about the whole story are why we got the Sequels we did. They were obsessed with copying everything about them and forgot to show us a new and different era in Star Wars. By pretending the galaxy would be exactly the same way it was in the Original trilogy you are disrespecting the Original trilogy and Star Wars as a whole by not moving the story into a new era that was showed at the end of Return of The Jedi. The Prequel haters are most the reason the Sequels are so awful.
Holy crap, you're one of the only people I've heard who (like me) thinks Phantom Menace is the best prequel. It feels to me like the movie George Lucas was actually excited about and wanted to make, before everyone yelled at him for ruining everything and he gritted his teeth and gave us two more half-assed prequels, mostly shot on a sound stage so he could have air conditioning while he drank coffee and mumbled "faster and more intense".
I think you miss the point of the Vader hallway scene. It’s the first time we see Vader being the scary killer that were told he is in the original films but never see him do any thing or see the dread in the characters around him.
The generalisations made in this video are outrageous. To categorise peoples dislikes as black and white as this is counterintuitive to the points trying to be made. Passing off things that are truly disappointing from a story telling perspective as 'fan nit-picks based on expectations' is pretty saddening.
How do you rank Episodes 1 and 2 above 3?
He has an opinion.
@@blakeharris58 Perhaps that is what he is asking.
Really, though, the Last Jedi is #3 in the ranking?
I think Patrick is a genius and is somehow pranking us.
Well you aren't wrong, but that's just calling out the problem not the solution of a better movie. And I think that the problem was clear. The directors took the criticisms of the prequals to heart, but the fans didn't want the same thing as the original(despite what they said). They wanted a logical continuation of the story. The problem was that the main movies were pretty bare bones and the material was not enough to continue the hype on it's own so that sales would continue. Yes the problem was EU. The creators contracted out their canon to contractors and pushed the series to new heights allowing detail and consistency to every plot point. You mention this but side step it like it's a minor issue since the films are separate. That very attitude is why the backlash happened for seemingly no reason. So the prequals come out and they get backlash because they were not a intuitive continuation of the story. The people who are making the Disney canon take a look at this and say fair enough the prequals had nothing to do with the originals we will make a movie that is a logical continuation of the original movies, and that is where they made their mistake. Which Disney the makers of the clone wars should have known better. The people who complained about the prequals were not saying that it was a bad continuation of the OT they were saying it was a bad continuation of the EU which Lucas let be apart of the official story for years. This caused the prequals to do a hell of a lot of justifying to the fans which they did in the form of extra content AKA the EU reborn. Telling complex tales of politics and history. It was something that suited the Prequals in it's shades of gray political nature, and the fans who found value in it were the deep lore lovers who found value in complex details. So noticing that Lucas caught flak for ignoring his own canon Disney ended the EU so that they would not make the same mistake. It was the simple way out and the wrong one. The previous movies had relied so much on the EU to fix their mistakes and further their story that they became dependent on them. The EU and the movies are not separable in the eyes of fans they are one in the same. Few have explored the full depths of the EU, but all know it exists should they wish to go deeper. Fans did not want a sequels to the OT(which the Disney films perfectly adhere to. Luke's characterization being from an alternate ending to the Last Jedi where he went into brooding because he had failed and fallen to the dark side and was only saved by his father.) They wanted a sequel to the EU. They wanted a sequel to the books, the games and perhaps most damningly Star Wars The Clone Wars. They wanted a sequel that was complex and political' detailed and philosophical.
They wanted the EU, and no matter how many times the movie makers try to recon it. It will never go away. It's part of star wars and here to stay.
Hilariously they would have been better off trying to mimic the prequals. Such grim irony. So yeah of course fans gave better reviews for rogue one. It was the one most like the EU and thus the most like the majority of star wars
1. They don't like lazy Force powers developed in excuse for actual plot with no set up or explanation.
2. They don't like how Rey's powers grow because it has NEVER worked like that for anyone.
3. They don't like Leia using the Force because that isn't what she did 40 years ago and there is no explanation for why she did it, nor is there any follow up because she used it.... it's not even mentioned again.
4. They don't like Snoke's backstory because there isn't one...
5. They don't like Luke's characterization because we have never seen him like that and it defies years of characterization he was previously given.
6. They really don't like the Fin/Rose Subplot because it doesn't connect to the story in any way... and it is a ham-fisted attempt to throw real world politics into a Star Wars movie where they aren't wanted... and its boring.
It seems like fans just want and deserve some consistency within a world that has 40 years of lore behind it.
Thank you!!
Facts
I love this thesis. Also, I realized that SW is just like the “Sonic the Hedgehog” series.
Including the part where it was eventually turned into a self-referencing, self-depreciating parody of itself by its creators.
I agree with your take on all these movies, though I think I liked Rogue One a bit more. It felt like a classic 90's Stsr Wars RPG campaign, in a good way.
For it not to suck
God this is so on point. The Irony for me is that people seem to be forgetting the original trilogy, these days. It feels like younger people who grew up with the prequels and the cartoons use it as reference when criticizing the new content, but don't actually remember them properly. After the Last Jedi, when people would say Luke was out of character, they would point to him being "the eternal optimist" in the OG trilogy. He really wasn't. He was actually a defeatist and Yoda even called him out on it. Or that we needed the Rogue One Vader scene to see how terrifying Vader was, even though we got that in the OG. Or after Mando season 2, "we finally got Luke being a badass with a lightsaber", we got that in the OG.
What movies were these people watching?!
Once you got into the "fan checklist" part I got heavily confused. Mainly since what I wanted was good sequels/good expansion of the series. Due to the fact that the last jedi/force awakens is in and of itself fractured due to both directors wanting different results with it, it got confusing real fast. Not to mention the hand-waved away evil macguffin of the hyperspace tracker and the hyperspace ruining holdo maneuver.
I just want something with somewhat explainable reasons/tech/force use that expands the universe. The first order stuff, Finn, Poe, Rose/and Rey seem like good ideas but they didn't portray them properly as in Finn got shelved to a sidequest with rose, Rey got IMMMENSELY powerful for no reason in a snap between movies, Poe gets Unreasonably info-blocked by Holdo, first order got kinda unexplained.
I rest my case.
I blame JJ more than Rian. A Rian trilogy would've been better than anything JJ could lens flare and nostalgia photo bomb. I seriously forgot everything that happened in TFA and I've seen it twice. I remember every detail of TLJ and only saw it once in the theater. But for me, a memorable movie is better than a forgettable one, even if it's bad...a forgettable movie is just a waste of time.
@@Isaiah-yw3tw Same. I don't hate JJ, but I think he doesn't handle existing IP too well when it comes to making something that hits 'the feels' and isn't just a 'look, isn't this cool?' collection of ideas. I don't think movies have to have deep characterisation or themes, but they certainly make a movie more timeless and great when they do and I find JJ isn't concerned with that kind of thing OR is simply too preoccupied with not 'offending fans' to have any energy to do such things. I get the sense that Rian started from a concept and fit it into his installment of the series rather than just looking at it as 'okay, what should this character do and how many light saber battles can we fit in?'
I don't know how either of them approaches making movies, but I think we have plenty of evidence to show that JJ's very surface level and Rian tends to make generally deeper and richer material and I prefer that over JJ's style.
So yes...I hope Rian gets to make something for Star Wars again and doesn't have to worry as much about what to do with the dangling plot threads of something previous and can just do a Rian Star Wars project.
How about no more Star Wars? At this point I would be so much happier if Disney/Lucasfilm left this franchise alone rather than continue to abuse and defile one of my favorite IPs and several of my favorite characters any further. Just give us the theatrical editions of the OT, along with Lucas's special editions and I'm happy.
While we're at it, no more Terminators, Ghostbusters, Aliens, Predators, Indiana Joneses, Jurassic Parks, Pirates of the Caribbeans, or any of the other big movie brands that hollywood is continuously trying to milk for all their worth. Let's get some new ideas going rather than trying to endlessly rehash or revamp the great blockbusters of yesteryear. Continue to remaster the old movies every few years, even put them back in theaters every now and then. But let them stand on their own without giving us reason to dread yet another bag of garbage with a beloved title printed on it.
That's actually a pretty good idea
The Last Jedi is my favorite! I know people hate that but it’s true!! I’ve been into SW since 1977 and I’ve enjoyed it all. But the Luke story in TLJ is just so relatable to me that even my daughter told me that Luke reminded her of me. That’s why I love SW the characters have been with me my whole life.
You tried to kill your nephew because of a scary dream???
@@konsama1315 No, not because of a dream. This is the problem with confirmation bias. When we don’t like something instead of attempting to understand how characters are written we simply reject what we see and oversimplify the scene. Luke knew that the dark side of the force was growing in his nephew. Luke had dealt with enough of what a potential dark side using Skywalker could do. This was not simply a bad dream by a young force user. This was a potential dark side uprising. How do we the audience know this? By the fact that Luke’s imperfect reaction to his nephew’s struggle with temptation. Was Luke’s judgment clouded? Yes, with no other more experienced Jedi to assist him he did not handle the situation well. Ben then killed all the other students and joined the dark side, so Luke wasn’t actually wrong about the kid, just in how he handled the situation. The broader issue here is this: Luke was not written from the perspective of a young man anymore that younger fans could relate to. As an older man who has raised rebellious teens and young adults I totally get where Luke was coming from. If Ben turned into a psychopath because Luke pulled a lightsaber on him during a dream obviously there was more going on than bad mentorship and teen angst.
@@mykilahsenwilliamsdorsey1495 Luke’s father was the second most evil person in the galaxy, who killed killed countless people, and committed horrible atrocities, and he refused to end his life because he still saw good in him, and all it took Luke to attempt to end kylos life was a dream
@@konsama1315 No my friend you have missed the whole point. 20 year old Luke wanted more than anything to make the galaxy right again if he could just get his father to turn good again. That’s the way 20 year olds who need fathers actually think. I know I’ve been 20. 50 year old men do not think like this, they have been through and seen too much to be that idealistic anymore. That doesn’t mean they no longer have hope. They just have more wisdom. With the rise of the New Order and the dark side Luke sensed that bad things were happening. Young Luke believed that if he could get Darth Vader to return to the Jedi all his problems would go away. They did not . He also thought that if he could just get his father to return to the light that the galaxy would follow. Life just isn’t that simple no matter how much we want it to be that way. He explains this in the movie. He became a legend but that was not enough. This is why I say that this story is where Star Wars actually becomes for grown ups. This story was written for the people who where kids back in 1977 and are late middle age now, just like Luke is in this story. Young people expected Luke to be a bad ass throwing his weight around in the galaxy for the good. In the end he did just that. Projecting himself across the galaxy to save the last of the resistance was the definition of bad ass!
God that comment about Vader scene was spot on given how people literally react toward mandolorian finale
I too think that TLJ is the best of the sequel trilogy
I just wanted a good movie. I got that with The Last Jedi, so I'm satisfied.
Lol good one
How fuggin dare you enjoy a film that I DIDN'T!!!!
@@kinhamid9665 The response comments like this get have nothing to do with enjoyment. That is not the claim OP made, OP claimed that it was a good movie. Claims of quality can be disputed.
By and large no one cares if you liked the movie. People do care about claims of high quality.
What did you like about TLJ? I'm glad you liked it. Most people I know who liked it did so because they liked the Rey/Kylo relationship. I don't hate that, but I also never got attached to either character. So I was looking for Luke, Finn and Poe and there wasn't much going on with any of those.
@@HavardBlackmoor I really enjoyed the Kylo/Rey/Luke storyline - Kylo and Rey have a fascinating dynamic that's actually new to Star Wars. Luke gets a full, complete arc that I find really relatable and powerful - I could go into a whole rant of why I like it, but ultimately I'll sum it up with this: there is a reason why Luke, in his final acts, decides to sacrifice himself so NO ONE ELSE will die, not even Kylo. He refuses to actively attack Kylo, he doesn't hit him at all - because that's how a Jedi should fight. People wanting him to do ninja flips and slice up AT-ATs are how we end up with Yoda with a lightsaber. Poe also gets a great arc, I think him learning that war is not fun and that sometimes you need to retreat, even if it's not the glorious thing to do is a really great progression for him - especially after he got nothing to do in The Force Awakens. Finn's storyline is definitely the weakest - I have a strong suspicion this is because Disney gave the mandate that he and Poe needed to be split up because NO HOMO - but I still enjoy a lot of it. I actually don't mind Canto Bight, in fact I only dislike about one third of that sixth of the movie. I also really like Benicio Del Toro's character, and I think once he comes into play Finn's arc gets kicked into gear - I like Finn genuinely struggling over whether what he's doing is right. I know people say it's a retread of The Force Awakens, but I would argue it's important for his character - it's the second film in a trilogy, everyone is being tested, and here Finn is being tested on whether or not he genuinely believes in the Resistance, or if he's just found himself in the same predicament he was with the Empire First Order I'm just calling it the Empire.
Also the porgs are cute
We want ovepriced disney world experience, with The characters being as thinly developed as disney world’s employees portray them.
"What seems like these fans want isn't the story, it's a Wookiepedia article."
THIS is too accurate! It can't be a coincidence that the people who keep screaming about TFA and TLJ are the ones saying "Rogue One and SOLO are the only good films Disney put out" (despite that they are inferior films from a general writing and filmmaking standpoint from the main ongoing trilogy)
I think a lot of people really liked The Last Jedi but people are much more willing to be vocal about not liking something than the reverse. I loved TLJ and I thought it was the best Star Wars since Empire Strikes back. But I wouldn't comment on it if I hadn't seen hundreds, if not thousands, of people commenting about they hated it
Joseph Miles I completely agree! I saw TLJ with three other friends and we all loved it; we turned to each other afterwards and just grinned. What bugs me is that I can accept it has problems, even some severe ones, but some people see it as the worst thing ever created and refuse to accept that it has both good and bad. I felt so excited to have seen it in the cinema, I wondered if it was the same feeling as people had in '77, '80 or '83. I'm sure audience members then could accept that the films had problems but that overall they are likeable. I don't mind if people disliked this one, but the hatred is so disproportionate. Some vocal people are filled with such vitriol and shout so loudly with their anger, fuelled by echo chambers, and it's so disheartening.
I think you missed an important point. You flirt with it at the end, but never give the devil his due. There has been a subset of the community- many kids who grew up on the prequels- who are responding to this new trilogy like older fans did towards the prequels.
The prequels massively expanded the galaxy, it brought in expanded universe elements, it gave writers a new world to play in, and the movies had a distinctive feel. It was not a carbon copy, despite its “rhyming.” They had their flaws, but there is far more good than some people give credit.
Btw, I watched the unaltered trilogy recently, and much prefer the special editions. I grew up on those. I love the Last Jedi and feel nothing when people hate it. As a prequel fan, I am used to loving something people hate. No one hates Star Wars like a Star Wars fan.
The Empire Strikes Back
Revenge of the Sith
The Last Jedi
The Phantom Menace
Return of the Jedi
Rogue One
The Force Awakens
A New Hope
Attack of the Clones
Solo
This is a great video, but from 12:00 where you list the critiques of TLJ, you're just flat out wrong.
People don't like Rey's quick training because she succeeds at everything. For Luke, although his training was also rushed, he suffered because of it. Rey gets everything right the first time, which is uninteresting to watch. We want to see our heroes learn.
Leia using the Force doesn't make any sense, not because she didn't do it thirty years ago, but because it had even been established in other canon material she never had training from Luke. It's also inconsistent. She pulls herself through the vacuum of space, what should have killed her, but she can't lift the rocks on Crait at the end, which has to be done by the overpowered Rey.
As for Snoke, you wanna know why we even wanted answers? Because the Force Awakens and for example the Aftermath books set him up to be something special.
It's not that people don't like Luke because it's not ''their Luke.'' I actually liked old grizzled Luke and his arc, I just hated the way he got there. If he was so integral to the rise of Kylo Ren, they should have showed it to us in more than three different flashbacks. Him killing his nephew out of nowhere is extremely out of character.
Now the Canto Bight subplot isn't hated because it's ''new.'' That's ridiculous. It's hated because it's badly paced and badly written, filled with hypocritical messages and propaganda. In those twenty minutes, we have an anti slavery message, an anti animal abuse message and an anti 1% message, which is fine all in of itself, but I don't need that in my Star Wars movie.
And there are many more valid critiques of the Last Jedi you didn't cover, like admiral Holdo and Rose, two ''strong independant women'' who suffer from god awful writing.
I could go on and on as to why I disliked the movie, but no one's gonna read this anyway...
Still a well put together video, man!
That argument in itself is wrong from the outset, Rey doesn't get "everything right first time" at all, certainly not in Force Awakens she constantly makes mistakes and gets her arse handed to her and even in Last Jedi she gets bested by Sidious before Ren kills him so sorry that argument has never stood up.
I really like your videos, even the ones I disagree with. But for this one, I'm not a fan at all... As you said, you're not objective so I should have known. When you said something like "people expected to be rewarded for all the trivia they accumulated", you really sound condescending. You are actually missing one very important complaint about the movie: it didn't feel like a sequel to The Force Awakens. What you called "expectations" about Snoke's backstory, Rey's parents and Luke's fate were actual narratives that were planted in The Force Awakens. Not following up on those narratives shows how much this new saga has no direction: for example, how come J.J. Abrams pitched for Episode IX just days before TLJ release??? We're not being told a three-part story, these movies are just a means for Disney to cash in. The other main complaint about TLJ was pacing; nothing really happens for a significant part of the movie. I can go on about character development (Rey in particular at the end the movie is pretty much how she was when the movie began) and the poor fight choreography, but it's not worth it... It's just a movie.
I liked The Last Jedi, but it had some big problems. Mostly with Finn's plot. He failed at everything he tried to do (not necessarily a problem, story-wise). The problem is that none of his failures effected the larger plot. It's a classic example of the plot driving the characters when it should be the other way around. As a storyteller, if you mitigate the consequences of failures then by the same token you inevitably cheapen successes.
Also Holdo and Poe's relationship is baffling. They both want the same thing, they have the same mentor, but they have this cat-and-mouse arc because...she wants to teach him a lesson? Or something? One which I guess he can't learn if he knows what's going on? The resistance is too small and desperate to support an internal power struggle subplot.
Luke being a crazy hermit is great in the movie.
Yoda is great in it.
The duel on the salt flats is great.
Leia is great.
Rey having nobodies for parents *was* great.
The kid using the force in the last shot is great.
Really loving the new video essay style!
i know virtually nothing about the eu but i did grow up with star wars and i do admit that a lot of the "feel" of star wars can be chalked up to nostalgia (for example, to me, the prequels feel like star wars movies, because when i first watched them i was seven and didnt give a shit that they were bad). however i think the biggest issue i had with tlj was that johnson purposefully went out of his way to make it "subversive" without really giving it any substance. finn's arc in the film was an odd rehashing of something he had already learned in tfa (to be heroic, to learn how to fight for others), and on top of that what rose "teaches" him while sacrificing herself at the end about saving the ones you love instead of dying for the greater good.... was something he was already trying to do at the beginning of the movie (with trying to leave so he could find rey). the choice to make poe hotheaded and uncaring about the lives of his fellow squadron members seemed inconsistent from the friendly character we met in tfa who ran to give finn, someone he barely knew, a hug. the casino side plot attempted some kind of anti-exploitation half-baked theme that fell flat when they decided to set the space llamas free... but not the enslaved children. the only expectations i had walking in to this movie was that it would retain the heart and the consistency i liked about the original trilogy, and you CAN do that while also subverting your audiences expectations and allowing your characters to fail. the problem is, to me, it seems like rian johnson put being subversive before everything else, and unfortunately that caused some things to fall flat and left a lot of us with that feeling that something was off.
I think the interesting thing about the idea of time traveling to watch the squeal trilogy as a kid, without expectations, is that for a lot of people, that's how the Prequels ARE. I was 9 when I watched the Originals, but I was ten when I watched Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, and I LOVE them. Like, I'll admit that they have some problems, but I think they are great additions to the star wars saga in a way the The Force Awakens isn't at all.
Also, I the 'I don't like sand' line is not so bad, and I don't know why people pretend that it is.
The Last Jedi Finn and Rose scene isn’t bad because its different from the orige trige its because it makes no contextual sense in the movie. They have time to save the horses and talk about gun control while their friends are running for their lives thats why that scene is bad
I see where you’re coming from, but TFA intentionally set up those mysteries: like what has Luke been doing, who tf is Snoke, and who are Rey’s parents.
They simply decided not to address this in TLJ-especially the last two.
That's what Abrams has done ever since Alias; he throws out a bunch of "mysteeeeeerious" loose ends to make it look deep and so that he can grab something later and make it look planned. Doing that when it was someone else's job to follow up was cruel, if they follow up he gets credit for the payoff, and if they don't he gets off scott free.
adamsbja:
Well, let’s put the blame on the story group over at Disney/Lucasfilm for having no general arc for this thing.
Oh, Johnson addressed the last one alright, on top of revealing how Rey was so damaged that she deceived herself to make herself feel better.
BlueFox94 lol Somehow what Luke has been doing and Rey’s parentage weren’t brought up. It’s so obvious that these people literally do not pay attention at all to the movies they watch. Snoke’s backstory also wasn’t even a mystery set up by TFA. It was fan created speculation. Snoke from TFA to TLJ is no different than Palpatine from ESB to RoTJ
I think this is the only time I've seen the nostalgia argument made, where I agreed with it.
Luke's fight scene in the last episode of The Mandalorian also really demonstrated how much Disney (or at least those specific producers) understood the point you make here, as well.
I really like this video and found your perspective very interesting.
What I wanted from episode VIII: I wanted a story that felt like the eight installment of this franchise. I wanted to feel the cohesion between this movie and all the way back to The Phantom Menace. I wanted them to explore the force, have Luke teach it and I wanted to get some perspective about this new conflict that has erupted in the galaxy and who is behind it. I'm not mad that this movie didn't give me the answers I wanted, just that it didn't give me any real answer at all. The story just feels tagged on and nonsensical in the overall narrative (so does the force awakens). My problem is how this movie wasted essential screen time on plot lines that didn't benefit the overall structure of the movie, while in the same time cutting down on scenes with Luke. The movie just felt too pretentious while at the same time being lazy and unfocused.
"there is simply no other film series that works this way"
what about the Fast and Furious series, Patrick?
I like this new format, btw!
One of my favorite quotes seems appropriate here. "As people age they confuse changes in themselves with changes in the world. The illusion of the good old days." -Steven Pinker.
The irony is a prequel hater invoking this
We just want a good movie.
"But Star Wars is more complicated than that."
Biggest misconception of them all.
It’s true, but it shouldn’t be
I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem in this video, and it undermines the entire argument.
The Star Wars films have always been simple. Famously, George Lucas based the entire plot on the Monomyth, and most elements were borrowed from westerns, Japanese samurai films, and then fused together with pulp sci-fi serials from the 50s. But ultimately, a very simple idea. There's a hero, a villain, and the two must fight.
The biggest, by far the biggest, problem with TLJ was that Rian Johnson was more concerned with deconstructing Star Wars than continuing it. The number of twists that were designed specifically to subvert expectations is simply staggering. Let's go through a few, shall we:
Snoke, set up as the mysterious Big Bad, is killed suddenly, and before any of his backstory is revealed.
Rey's parents, who were told left her alone on Jakku and who might be the key to her strong connection to both the Force and Luke, are revealed to have been unimportant junk traders who sold her off for drinking money
Poe's plan to save the fleet which directly contravenes the orders of his dogmatic commanding officer, actually winds up being a catastrophic failure
The charismatic thief who helps Rose and Finn escape the casino actually ends up being a traitorous scumbag who helps the First Order
Luke Skywalker's heroic stand against the villainous Kylo Ren actually ends up being an astral projection while Luke himself waits on his distant moon
All of these examples go against the fundamental storytelling ideology of the original trilogy. If a character has unexplained powers and doesn't know their parents, then there's a causal link there, it isn't a coincidence; the cocky maverick's plan saves the day, he was supposed to know better than his risk-averse commander; the uber-talented criminal has a heart of gold underneath his gruff exterior, or at the very least has a last-minute change of heart about betraying the good guys.
Maybe one twist of this nature might be an interesting way of keeping the audience on its toes, but when the movie is full of them... And that's not to say the original series didn't have twists, but look at the difference:
Luke arrives on Dagobah and meets a funny little muppet who annoys him before revealing himself to be the legendary Jedi master. What didn't happen was Luke arriving on Dagobah to be met by a six-foot, musclebound hero who then reveals himself to be a fraud and also reveals "Yoda" to be a myth. The former is satisfying, while the latter is frustrating and disappointing.
Darth Vader attempts to lure Luke to the dark side be revealing that he is actually his father, not his father's murderer. What didn't happen was Luke discovering that Vader might be his father, going to Cloud City to confront him and find out the truth, and then Vader revealing that he really did kill Luke's father after all.
Han takes his money and runs, but just when they need his help he arrives out of nowhere to provide Luke with support while the latter destroys the Death Star. What doesn't happen is Han and Cherwy taking their reward money and sunning it up on some beach planet while the Rebels get blitzed by the Imperial Fleet.
Ultimately, this film is the Anti-Star Wars. It's so intent on wrongfooting the audience that it forgets what made the films so popular in the first place. You're right about the problem being a difference between 8 year olds watching it and 48 year olds. But it's not older viewers wanting to be surprised the way they were when they were kids - it's filmmakers wanting to surprise us the way Lucas did when we were young, which requires a far more complex style of storytelling and results in a film which ultimately doesn't feel like Star Wars and isn't what anybody wanted.
To add on to this, each of the twists you mentioned in the originals gives the characters something to grow from, and ultimately reflect the themes of the story. Yoda being a small alien lets Luke grow past letting his expectations guide him. He must unlearn what he has learned. Vader being Luke's father teaches Luke that Yoda and Ben's ideology is not infallible, and results in themes of overcoming temptation, redemption, and overcoming adversity through family. Han coming back in Episode 4 sets up a theme that most people are inherently good. These twists reinforce the themes from the rest of the story, and are thus satisfying. The alternative twists you mentioned wouldn't fit well with the themes of the story and therefore don't work. Ultimately, most of the themes from the originals are optimistic.
On the other hand, many of the twists in the Last Jedi are just thrown in to be there, and frequently they imply themes that run counter to previous movies, which isn't necessarily a problem, if there is some sort of acknowledgement of the differences and exploration of which is correct. This would be deconstructionist. But because it doesn't explore the differences, it seems to just be ignoring or correcting previous films' messages. For example, the difference between the Han twist and the entire DJ plot and twist seems to just imply that that the previous movies were mistaken, and that most people are actually inherently terrible. The Last Jedi goes to great lengths to reverse almost all of the themes from previous films, resulting in a set of really pessimistic themes, but then fails to explore whether the original themes or the new themes are right. So the world that the Last Jedi presents not only bears little resemblance to the tone of previous films, but tells us that the previous films were incorrect, and wrong for being so optimistic.
THIS. ALL OF THIS.
THIS RIGHT HERE, PATRICK.
THIS IS WHY WE DIDN'T LIKE THE SEQUEL TRILOGY.
WHAT THESE TWO SAID.
I agree with a lot of this video, and I think my issue with the movie is exactly what you've pointed out that the audience have a set of expectations from knowing lure that they would like to see or expect. Where I think you're doing the fans a disservice is that little pieces of throwaway dialogue like explaining that leia might have had training to use the force, or why they didn't bother telling Poe Dameron the actual plan etc... Would have really helped with more of an acceptance of The Last Jedi. Just to trivialize it as we don't want this and we don't want that is kind of insulting. Still great thought-provoking video thanks.
My ranking:
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Force Awakens
4. Last Jedi
5. Rogue One
6. Return of the Jedi
7. Solo
8. Attack of the Clones
9. Revenge of the Sith
10. Phantom Menace
How I rank the middle ones is subject to change depending on my mood but I'm very confident as to the top and bottom three.
My ranking as well
Hey Patrick! I appreciate this video and I do think you make some very valid points, but I also think that you miss the main reason why Star Wars fandom in general disapproves of The Last Jedi. I’ve come to realize that there are really two main usages of the term “Star Wars,” and the lack of distinction people make between them is what causes most of the disagreement between people who loved the movie and a significant amount of Star Wars fans who felt like The Last Jedi betrayed the most important elements of the two trilogies that came before the ongoing Sequel trilogy.
First, there is "Star Wars" in the broader sense -- the cinematic universe that began with the original movie in 77, expanded with Empire and Return of the Jedi, then with the Expanded Universe, the Prequel trilogy, the Clone Wars, the spin-off anthology films, and, of course, the new Sequel trilogy. It's become so rich and vast that the potential exists for Disney to tell countless stories across the galaxy and across different eras with new, original characters for decades to come. I think most Star Wars fans, apart some die-hard purists, agree that continuing to explore and expand the larger cinematic universe that is "Star Wars" is a genuinely good thing that they're excited for.
But there is also the second usage of "Star Wars", which is in reference to the Skywalker saga (i.e. Episodes I-IX). I agree with your analysis that the Original trilogy, when watched with a critical, unsentimental eye, is filled with a lot of the same issues that angry fans are currently ripping The Last Jedi apart for having (although TLJ does have its own basic narrative problems that are too significant and obvious to be ignored). But what I think they are more upset about is that TLJ, as the second film in the Sequel trilogy, which is itself the third act of a larger triptych of trilogies, completely disregarded the larger narrative function it needed to serve as a film.
Star Wars fans care more about the Skywalker saga films than they do about any of the TV shows, comics, spin-off anthology films, etc. (even though they also add to the canon) because they have an expectation that it is all building toward the conclusion of the most highly anticipated trilogy of trilogies ever made. There is an assumption (one that I think they are entitled to make) that there will ultimately be a narrative pay off in this final act, just as the average movie-goer assumes there will be a narrative payoff in the final act of any given film they're watching. Whenever we watch a film that goes completely off the rails, fails to pay off things that were set up in the first two acts, and effectively disregards story elements that were established throughout the plot, it breaks the verisimilitude (the importance of which you emphasized in another one of your videos) and it ruins the narrative flow of the film. The Last Jedi did this on two levels.
First, as the second act in a trilogy, it disregarded multiple plot elements that were clearly set up in the first act, The Force Awakens, with the expectation of being payed off or at least expanded upon later. Even tonally, TLJ felt jarringly disjointed from TFA. A perfect example is the final scene of Rey meeting Luke, which was clearly shot and edited with the intention that it would be moment with gravity, both on an emotional level and on a narrative one. It was followed up in TLJ with a cynical/humorous/"subversive" shot of Luke throwing the lightsaber off the cliff and walking past Rey, completely uninterested in her. Like honestly, why would Luke be standing on a cliff all by himself dressed in his white Jedi robes, turn around with an emotional look of recognition on his face when he sees Rey as she holds out a lightsaber he presumably thought was destroyed forever, only to immediately throw it over a cliff and leave the girl who located him on an exiled he specifically chose so he would be unfindable? If you edited those two scenes into one uninterrupted scene it would be offensively disjointed, and that point stands for TFA and TLJ as a whole. As the second act in a trilogy, TLJ threw a wrench in so many plot elements (Leia's survival, Luke's and Snoke's deaths, the Rebellion/Empire dynamic of the Resistance and the First Order) that collectively make it near-impossible to write a satisfactory third act for Episode IX that won’t feel rushed and incoherent.
Second, and more importantly, The Last Jedi's failure as a good second act in this trilogy confirmed a lot of Star Wars fans' worst fears when they heard a Sequel Trilogy was being created, which was that it wouldn't provide a satisfactory conclusion to the 9 film long Skywalker Saga that spans three generations. George Lucas said that the Star Wars movies are like poetry; they rhyme. I don't think this has to hold true for the broader Star Wars cinematic universe in general. It needs to continue to surprise fans, as you said in your video. But the first six Episodes of the Skywalker saga, for all their flaws (and you pointed many of them out), were specifically designed to rhyme with one another on a narrative level. The character's journeys shared common elements that were cleverly reworked to compliment one another on a grander scale when the two trilogies were viewed as complimentary acts of a larger, trans-generational story that was greater than the sum of its parts. The Force Awakens (and thus, the Sequel trilogy as a whole) seemed to be continuing that rhyming scheme with the intention that this last trilogy would bring the larger story it to a final, grand conclusion that would expand upon the universe in new and exciting ways, but do so with a respect for the narrative structure the previous two trilogies had already established.
And that's why I think so many Star Wars fans were disappointed with The Last Jedi. It felt like, in an effort to free itself from the shackles of Star Wars history and enable itself to pump out Star Wars films indefinitely, Disney realized it had to "let the past die," and even "kill it if [they] have to." Instead of creating the best second act they could for the Sequel trilogy, and thus, the best, most fitting (and narratively consistent) third act they could for the Skywalker saga as a whole, Disney was focused on laying the groundwork to milk the Star Wars cash cow for the foreseeable future until it dies. The vast majority of Star Wars fans are mad in the same way any movie-goer would be mad if a movie they were genuinely hyped for completely fell apart in the third act. The stakes are so high with Star Wars in general because its not just a single movie, nor is it just a single trilogy; it’s a trilogy of trilogies, and it is therefore exponentially more important that the last act (i.e. the Sequel trilogy) stick the landing and deliver an ending that makes the entire Skywalker saga feel cohesive, coherent, and greater than the sum of its parts
I know this was quite a long-winded comment but it's the first time I've ever articulated what I think the heart of the issue is and your video helped me get there. I'd love to hear your thoughts and response because I genuinely respect your opinion and I love how much you care about the details that go into your videos. Thanks, looking forward seeing to more of your videos!
Love the presentation.
Your theory doesn't do film goers justice. Like Luke destroying the death Star in "a day" is fine if it's emotionally and logically valid because they justify it in emotional and film logic.
Rey is awesome because she is.
Theres a universal standard of filmmaking and storytelling that the new star wars films dont hit. It's not just about that old feeling exactly, it's about making a good film.
Episodes 1,2, 3 have it in their essence somewhere. Eps 7,8 do not. But regardless, a well told story would suffice.
You were doing just fine until you started dismissing the complaints about TLJ. People don't dislike Luke's new arc because that's not where he was when we last saw him, they dislike it because it betrays his core values that we learned about in prior movies culminating in RotJ, ie. that he would never abandon or betray his family and friends; that was the whole point of his final temptation when facing the emperor.
Although I didn't have as much of a problem with it, fans don't dislike Leia's powers because she never had powers before, they disliked that scene because it was visually jarring, looked pretty fake, all while introducing *multiple* Force abilities that weren't even *hinted* at, partly because Leia herself was totally underutilized in these sequels. Foreshadowing is an important literary device for setting up exactly these kinds of moments.
Fans didn't dislike the Finn/Rose subplot because it didn't connect to prior lore, they disliked it because it was a bunch of pointless, hamfisted moralizing that took valuable time away from other core characters that *very badly* needed more development, like Rey, Luke, and Snoke and Kylo Ren. Even Finn needed more development, but this subplot didn't succeed at this at all, and it ultimately robbed Finn of one of the only emotionally engaging moments in the entire film.
Frankly, the whole film was poorly written, with constant missteps, poor pacing and a plethora of logical contradictions. You've done essentially the same thing that everyone does when presented with criticisms of a film they liked, you've confused liking a movie with that movie being objectively good and thematically unproblematic.
Sorry, but TLJ is just objectively bad. You can certainly like it all the same though, just don't let that fool you into thinking that makes it good.
This comment is objectively shit. See how this works?
Mandatory rewatch before the "final" one.
I like Rogue One because it has nothing to do with the rest of the series, there's no cliffhanger.
of course it does end with a technical cliffhanger, but I can forgive it because I don't really feel like it detracts from the experience, and since you can just watch the opening scene of Episode 4 if you're really curious it's hardly leaving anyone hanging, overall though it stands alone pretty well as a film.
Also I really like the prequels, they're a big hokey melodrama but, when I was a kid I was really super into that I guess because I was enthralled by them. I can say my obsession did peak a bit with episode 1 but that's mostly because I was 10 and episodes 2 and 3 came out more in the shadow of everyone hating them, which I had no idea about before episode 2.