Can't blame him at all, its a case where those who abuse it dont want it gone at the cost of the tier just DYING Literally no one wants to BW OU now cause those twats are too up their own asses.
With the Yveltal/Calyrex Shadow dynamic in general 8 Ubers, I think there’s a distinct difference between that and the Quagsire/Kyogre example, in that Yveltal was already the most splashable mon around and saw massive usage because of its synergy with NDM and Eternatus. And there were often soft checks you could pack alongside Yveltal which would help stave off Calyrex. actually kinda funny thing is that by the end of the generation, Kyogre ended up being considered more dangerous than CalyrexS.
I imagine how much counterplay a tier has is also a major factor. If something is powerful and ubiquitous, but has a ton of answers that serve important roles outside that, it's not a big deal. If something is so powerful that it has very specific answers that are otherwise terrible, or useless in any other serious matchup, there might be a problem.
Of course, VGC players generally manage to hang on despite the counterplay arguably falling under the latter, though I do wonder if they’d appreciate a banning process like Smogon’s? Plus, this still could change depending on the skill of the player (which is relevant because bans affect everyone on ladder regardless of skill).
Pausing the video at 0:00 to say that our lord Finchinator should be the only one to decide whether something is banworthy or not, and in the case he finds something not broken, us plebians must listen to him.
The rules seem honestly the same from action games to strategy games to TCGs. Something can be so obviously the best thing to do in a meta that it makes every other strategy unviable, and that certainly sucks. But the big one that especially hits hard in turn based strategic games is stuff that promotes degenerate play. Fishing for RNG, forcing extremely narrow suboptimal answers, making people's lives miserable makes you a much bigger target than just being strong.
Drakovish in gen8 wasn't as supremely overwhelming as Koger. But the fact that it's presence made the use of 4-5 specific pokemon basically mandatory wouldn't be considered healthy by anyone with a working braincell
Ehhhhhh as someone who played Gen8 a huge amount (start of the gen to the end), Dracovish is about as close as it gets to unleashing specs Kyogre into OU (only it's physical instead of special).
“Mega Rayquaza is balanced because you can use Porygon 2 to counter any non CB variants of it and get better so you can play around the choice lock” is something I used to tell my friends back in the day when they complain when something gets banned that they have answers… Genesect in particular… I remember how people started running Rock Polish on it and even the idiots cannot defend it anymore 😂
why would you run rock polish over shift gear? you'd be giving away you're special, no? (unless it doesn't get shift gear in gen5 or something '^^ ive only started playing since xy)
@@alibekzholaman2923 it definitely existed in gen 5. it was klinklang's signature move. i think genesect got it through an event though but i'm pretty positive at least in xy it had shift gear
Shift Gear was introduced in Gen 5 with the Kinklang line. Genesect gets it in gen 5. The disadvantage of the Shift Gear attack boost is Foul Play...but otherwise it would be better than Rock Polish Edit: It was an event move for genesect
I would say that the biggest thing about something being ban worthy is whether or not things play the same way each time the thing is used. Archaludon is an example that I remember most where the whole interaction would be you knock its assault vest then you wear it down with special attackers. But if you didn't have any dedicated counters it would snowball out of control and blow through your team and by the time you delt with it Barrascewda would sweep the rest of your team. Needless to say, I'm glad it's gone, even though it was one of my favorites
Shell Smash cloyster was not a gimmick at all. It gets consistent setups and it can even hit prepared teams because it has a lot of flexibility. It gets boosts on both ATK and SPA, so it can use it's full move pool to bully a lot of answers. It is matchup fishy, but that's not the same thing - that's a problem with a lot of gen 5 OU.
7:50 “you don’t want a million things viable, because it then becomes too difficult. you want some form of centralization” You kind of just left this off on a cliffhanger, but the statement could definitely be built upon. Having a lack of centralization isn’t necessarily bad. It just changes the game to being less predictable, and therefore people focus less on team building in a way to include specific counters, and instead people focus more on planning their own path to victory. You get less control, and more aggro. Not necessarily hyper offense, but could include combos like spore, belly drum, baton pass. Also, not necessarily the diminishing of stall, either, but rather seeing no quagsires. You can see niche Pokémon that bolster your own team, but see less niche Pokémon that answer your opponent’s threats.
In this video, you mention the word “healthy” a lot, which is a bit of a difficult word to define outside of an absence of disease. I’d be interested in knowing your thoughts on what precisely constitutes a “healthy” meta game
A metagame clearly defined, without unfair luck-based high variance or low risk / high reward strategies, where counterplays to major treats are diverse and more generaly a metagame where balance teams are rewarded (where stupid hyper offense and stall are not too strong).
I would jump go with this order: Blue Velvet Mulholland Drive Eraserhead Twin Peaks S1 + S2 Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me Twin Peaks: The Return Lost Highway Inland Empire
ADV is all TSS Skarm Bliss anyway, and Bliss basically shuts down any variant of Kyogre with good play, so it's clearly obvious that Kyogre wouldn't even be that good in OU. Honestly, I'm not even sure if it'd be that good in UU, probably NUBL at best. If you are in favour of Kyurem B staying in BW OU, you should clearly also support dropping Kyogre. Maybe not into NU straight away, as I can see it being potentially overwhelming there, but definitely down to UU. If you disagree, you are just a salty noob that could never stand up to my greatness, for I have participated in many turnaments and peaked 1169 on the OU ladder.
Finally a smart opinion. I 100 % AGREE. I'm currently 1257 on ladder, and you just said everything. Kyogre should be test at least in UU, those tiering decisions just make no sense.
GSC OU is a very old format and people who play it are fine with snorlax being like that. banning it helps no one, it just basically deletes a 2 decade old established metagame. at most maybe there could be a niche snorlax-less format but it shouldnt be OU
Any definition of banworthy needs to justify the exclusion of things like megaray, ubers from OU, Shell smash cloyster, Dracovish, etc and the inclusion of big 3 normals in Gen 1, Lax+Zap in Gen 2, Pdon. Basically a definition that makes usage independent from banworthyness. Something not really brought up is the factor of matchup polarization, which gets closer to the idea of a mon taking away skill and suggests why a mon with high versatility might be broken.
Part of the issue with this is that the real answer for why some things that might seem broken are actually okay boils down to "tradition". Are Snorlax and Zapdos too strong in Gen 2? Maybe, but it's always been that way and nobody really wants to change it. There isn't really a "rational" reason for why it is the way it is, and I don't think there really needs to be.
@@CantusTropus Yeah, you can't ignore the fact that old Smogon was not usage based and had a different attitude to broken mons. We don't need to take into account GSC lax and gen 1's weirdness because they were playing by different rules. These gens are relics of the past and that's fine, they don't need harmonizing.
Because Yveltal was ridiculously splashable and good itself and there were also soft checks that could help stave it off that you'd likely see run alongside it, meaning the Shadow Rider player had to genuinely play well to reach that game winning state. It was incredibly strong and warping, but it was still often down to skill who won more. Unlike say Gen8 Zacian-Crowned which often was "who won with their Zacian first". There was actually a special Uber tournament last gen where the rule was Caly-S was banned, and it barely changed the way the tournament played out. The big three (Yveltal, NDM, Eternatus) remained as the top 3 in usage by a lot because it was such an astonishingly robust and well balanced core. Heck as strong as Shadow Rider was, it ended up being below Kyogre in threat level at the end of the generation.
I previously thought that BKC had some dumb opinions, but after seeing how handsome he was, I realize that I was wrong and should accept everything he says as gospel.
Okay, so, casual viewer of competitive pokemon stuff here. Isn't the Latias vs Kyogre example describing Latias in basically the way almost every bulky ground type at #1 usage is used? Like, taking Great Tusk as an example in Gen 9. It seems to me to be the only hazard removal pokemo that's actually good that also is capable of beating gholdengo. Landorus throughout the years shows pretty similar dynamics to other threats in those respective metas. So what makes them different?
if you ban GSC Snorlax its not even GSC OU anymore. people who play the format are fine with snorlax existing like that so banning it helps absolutely no one. bans are more nuanced when it comes to older generations where things have just been like that and people who play it are fine with it
If all Ubers were unbanned to OU, not all of them would be banned again right? At least thats what I think Ik ive talked about this in comments a lot but this should be done and generations shouldnt start with a banlist
But that would just become the ubers metagame. No one is saying that gen 5 ubers is unbalanced,so if all the ubers mons drop to ou it would just become the ubers metagame in which only Uber mons will be used so if everything is broken that makes nothing broken. Basically you are saying to make ubers into the standard metagame.
I still think smogon banning is very subjective. I'm in particular not at all confident that the argument based on "helping the better player win" is valid, because I never see people making this argument back their argument up with actual (directly relevant) statistics. Nevertheless, most of smogon's decisions are fine, and Ubers is generally less fun than OU because OU has reasonable bans.
I disagree with a lot of your opinions, especially how confident they are, but I still find it worth listening to these videos so I can have a better understanding of the mind of the average smogonite.
Now explain why they did not ban Terrastralize and why it is healthy. "Oh you built a team to be able to handle 'X'? Now it's a different type that beats your counter or check!"
The community voted to not ban it; This was because Tera was considered skillful. Why? Well, let’s say a baxcalibur came onto the field, and was obviously going to set up. However, you had an iron valiant out, or decided to switch it in. Baxcalibur is most definitely using Tera, so you scout it out. However, in Baxcaliburs case, it was far too versatile and it getting one turn could win a game. Those mons get banned, but the ones that are not as powerful stay; Simple. Another thing is mons usually have one or two types that they Tera into. Dnite turns normal, gliscor into water, etc. And even then, if your team is flexible enough, you’ll still be able to deal with it.
This is why the fuck smogon kills its own player base. Y’all would rather ban lando in Oras and deal with ~50+ % lando T and clef games for the entire future of the format.
Lando-T's dominance in ORAS is a decade outdated, and certainly isn't "the entire future of the format." Lando isn't even the best ground-type anymore, it only has half the usage of Excadrill and is constantly placed outside the top 20 in the viability rankings. Clef is pretty popular still but nowhere near the 50+% usage that you suggest (it usually hovers around 20-25%). There's an abundance of powerful steel-types, Excadrill, M-Scizor, M-Metagross, Bisharp, and Heatran are all extremely common and keep Clef in check well.
I just saw AKIRA in a theater (for the fifth time), AMA
Thoughts on Ryan Goslings contribution to the film?
Thoughts on Club Penguin Game Day! For Nintendo Wii?
Has there been a better anime protagonist than Kaneda?
Which one of the five was the best?
Are you like seeking out anniversary showings?
BKC is taking the Machamp/Reuniclus "no bans" harshly.
Lowkey Kevin crashing out
Can't blame him at all, its a case where those who abuse it dont want it gone at the cost of the tier just DYING
Literally no one wants to BW OU now cause those twats are too up their own asses.
I miss kevin, where did he go
The stupid decisions of Machamp / Reun had broke BKC and now we are getting multiple videos a day and im all for it
Obviously letting Kyogre into OU is ridiculous. Kyogre's counters are in the NU tier, so Kyogre should naturally be allowed in NU.
Nu with Kyogre 😋
Rain teams bouta go crazy
Instructions unclear; Kyogre dropped to UU in DPP
With the Yveltal/Calyrex Shadow dynamic in general 8 Ubers, I think there’s a distinct difference between that and the Quagsire/Kyogre example, in that Yveltal was already the most splashable mon around and saw massive usage because of its synergy with NDM and Eternatus. And there were often soft checks you could pack alongside Yveltal which would help stave off Calyrex.
actually kinda funny thing is that by the end of the generation, Kyogre ended up being considered more dangerous than CalyrexS.
"You know how many top tier players have awful opinions? I have them all the time!"
damn, BKC didn't need to be that honest :(
Right you are, Ken!
He only has those terrible opinions because Finchinator broke into his house and played subliminal messaging in his sleep.
This video does a good job of convincing Finchinator to drop Kyogre to OU.
That would break stall
I imagine how much counterplay a tier has is also a major factor. If something is powerful and ubiquitous, but has a ton of answers that serve important roles outside that, it's not a big deal. If something is so powerful that it has very specific answers that are otherwise terrible, or useless in any other serious matchup, there might be a problem.
Yeah that’s pretty much a case for GSC OU. Machamp, Skarmory, Cloyster, Zapdos, etc. are all still great outside of helping beat Snorlax.
Tyranitar in ADV is another perfect example
Of course, VGC players generally manage to hang on despite the counterplay arguably falling under the latter, though I do wonder if they’d appreciate a banning process like Smogon’s?
Plus, this still could change depending on the skill of the player (which is relevant because bans affect everyone on ladder regardless of skill).
I feel like Gen 8 Dracovish would've been the prime example, bro made toad the third most used mon in OU
Two bkc videos in one day? Truly we are blessed
Pausing the video at 0:00 to say that our lord Finchinator should be the only one to decide whether something is banworthy or not, and in the case he finds something not broken, us plebians must listen to him.
RIP Volc and sun
The rules seem honestly the same from action games to strategy games to TCGs. Something can be so obviously the best thing to do in a meta that it makes every other strategy unviable, and that certainly sucks.
But the big one that especially hits hard in turn based strategic games is stuff that promotes degenerate play. Fishing for RNG, forcing extremely narrow suboptimal answers, making people's lives miserable makes you a much bigger target than just being strong.
I think kyogre should be allowed it would buff rain in gen 5 ou
Sun fell off in gen 5 ou a while ago now, so I think allowing groudon in ou is a good idea for metagame diversity
This man has kept me sane during the summer or sane adjacent i guess
Drakovish in gen8 wasn't as supremely overwhelming as Koger. But the fact that it's presence made the use of 4-5 specific pokemon basically mandatory wouldn't be considered healthy by anyone with a working braincell
Ehhhhhh
as someone who played Gen8 a huge amount (start of the gen to the end), Dracovish is about as close as it gets to unleashing specs Kyogre into OU (only it's physical instead of special).
Been loving these frequent shorter videos. Maybe you could try having something like this while we wait for your longer vids
“Mega Rayquaza is balanced because you can use Porygon 2 to counter any non CB variants of it and get better so you can play around the choice lock” is something I used to tell my friends back in the day when they complain when something gets banned that they have answers… Genesect in particular… I remember how people started running Rock Polish on it and even the idiots cannot defend it anymore 😂
Porygon2 is uu so megaray can be dropped uu too
why would you run rock polish over shift gear? you'd be giving away you're special, no? (unless it doesn't get shift gear in gen5 or something '^^ ive only started playing since xy)
@@matheuscastello6554shift gear doesn't exist in gen 5. It was only created in gen 7 i think
@@alibekzholaman2923 it definitely existed in gen 5. it was klinklang's signature move. i think genesect got it through an event though but i'm pretty positive at least in xy it had shift gear
Shift Gear was introduced in Gen 5 with the Kinklang line. Genesect gets it in gen 5. The disadvantage of the Shift Gear attack boost is Foul Play...but otherwise it would be better than Rock Polish
Edit: It was an event move for genesect
I would say that the biggest thing about something being ban worthy is whether or not things play the same way each time the thing is used.
Archaludon is an example that I remember most where the whole interaction would be you knock its assault vest then you wear it down with special attackers. But if you didn't have any dedicated counters it would snowball out of control and blow through your team and by the time you delt with it Barrascewda would sweep the rest of your team. Needless to say, I'm glad it's gone, even though it was one of my favorites
do u think gen 5 shell smash cloyster really that polarizing for it to be banned? or was it banned because it was more of a gimmick?
Shell Smash cloyster was not a gimmick at all. It gets consistent setups and it can even hit prepared teams because it has a lot of flexibility. It gets boosts on both ATK and SPA, so it can use it's full move pool to bully a lot of answers. It is matchup fishy, but that's not the same thing - that's a problem with a lot of gen 5 OU.
@@MenwithHillwasnt a large part to why Cloy become broken because people stopped using Herb too?
7:50 “you don’t want a million things viable, because it then becomes too difficult. you want some form of centralization”
You kind of just left this off on a cliffhanger, but the statement could definitely be built upon. Having a lack of centralization isn’t necessarily bad. It just changes the game to being less predictable, and therefore people focus less on team building in a way to include specific counters, and instead people focus more on planning their own path to victory. You get less control, and more aggro. Not necessarily hyper offense, but could include combos like spore, belly drum, baton pass. Also, not necessarily the diminishing of stall, either, but rather seeing no quagsires. You can see niche Pokémon that bolster your own team, but see less niche Pokémon that answer your opponent’s threats.
No.
Abomasnow is a valid choice in Gen 4 OU
Can't believe BKC is *this* salty about the council's decision to drop kyogre to OU
this video gives me so many ideas of stuff to say I can't form thoughts cohesive enough to post
pretty cool content as always
I fucking love Ubers
gen 3-4 Ubers on Showdown, when?
I was expecting Latios or Palkia last, but Qwilfish Lmaoooo
In this video, you mention the word “healthy” a lot, which is a bit of a difficult word to define outside of an absence of disease. I’d be interested in knowing your thoughts on what precisely constitutes a “healthy” meta game
In other words, this video talks about what is excluded from a healthy meta- game. But what would be included in a healthy meta-game?
A metagame clearly defined, without unfair luck-based high variance or low risk / high reward strategies, where counterplays to major treats are diverse and more generaly a metagame where balance teams are rewarded (where stupid hyper offense and stall are not too strong).
Why are ADV players forced to use Magneton, a bad Pokémon, to counter Skarmory? Shouldn't Skarmory be ban worthy?
I'm kidding lol
Calyrex Shadow was balanced in Uber in gen 8 . Teams only needed 2 -3 check for it
BKC I’m trying to get into David Lynch is there a film you recommend for a beginner, I watched rabbits and liked it.
I would jump go with this order:
Blue Velvet
Mulholland Drive
Eraserhead
Twin Peaks S1 + S2
Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me
Twin Peaks: The Return
Lost Highway
Inland Empire
ADV is all TSS Skarm Bliss anyway, and Bliss basically shuts down any variant of Kyogre with good play, so it's clearly obvious that Kyogre wouldn't even be that good in OU. Honestly, I'm not even sure if it'd be that good in UU, probably NUBL at best.
If you are in favour of Kyurem B staying in BW OU, you should clearly also support dropping Kyogre. Maybe not into NU straight away, as I can see it being potentially overwhelming there, but definitely down to UU.
If you disagree, you are just a salty noob that could never stand up to my greatness, for I have participated in many turnaments and peaked 1169 on the OU ladder.
Finally a smart opinion. I 100 % AGREE. I'm currently 1257 on ladder, and you just said everything. Kyogre should be test at least in UU, those tiering decisions just make no sense.
Joyous double feature day
Disagree, no Pokémon should ever banned and the competitive scene should be absolutely anarchy as intended.
AG gaming
This 8 min video was on my RUclips shorts
BKC
Video idea: Uber Pokémon that would be banned if Ubers had the same tiering culture than modern OU.
Does this not partially apply to GEN 2 Snorlax?
GSC OU is a very old format and people who play it are fine with snorlax being like that. banning it helps no one, it just basically deletes a 2 decade old established metagame. at most maybe there could be a niche snorlax-less format but it shouldnt be OU
So what you're saying is that since Snorlax is on every team and counters Mewtwo, it's okay to allow Mewtwo in GSC OU.
understood, drop kyogre to ou and run quagsire, shedinja or parasect on every team
Any definition of banworthy needs to justify the exclusion of things like megaray, ubers from OU, Shell smash cloyster, Dracovish, etc and the inclusion of big 3 normals in Gen 1, Lax+Zap in Gen 2, Pdon. Basically a definition that makes usage independent from banworthyness. Something not really brought up is the factor of matchup polarization, which gets closer to the idea of a mon taking away skill and suggests why a mon with high versatility might be broken.
Part of the issue with this is that the real answer for why some things that might seem broken are actually okay boils down to "tradition". Are Snorlax and Zapdos too strong in Gen 2? Maybe, but it's always been that way and nobody really wants to change it. There isn't really a "rational" reason for why it is the way it is, and I don't think there really needs to be.
@@CantusTropus Yeah, you can't ignore the fact that old Smogon was not usage based and had a different attitude to broken mons. We don't need to take into account GSC lax and gen 1's weirdness because they were playing by different rules. These gens are relics of the past and that's fine, they don't need harmonizing.
No we don't? Those are different tiers with a different culture and a lot of tradition. Why should they matter in a discussion about say, gen 5
Did I just hear BKC say Abomasnow??!
Wait Quagsire is good in DPP ou?
yep. it does 80% of what Swampert does defensively with access to recover and encore while completely shutting down Starmie.
How isn't Calyrex-Shadow banned in SwSh Ubers if it forces Yveltal on every team to not get run over by it?
Because Yveltal was ridiculously splashable and good itself and there were also soft checks that could help stave it off that you'd likely see run alongside it, meaning the Shadow Rider player had to genuinely play well to reach that game winning state. It was incredibly strong and warping, but it was still often down to skill who won more. Unlike say Gen8 Zacian-Crowned which often was "who won with their Zacian first".
There was actually a special Uber tournament last gen where the rule was Caly-S was banned, and it barely changed the way the tournament played out. The big three (Yveltal, NDM, Eternatus) remained as the top 3 in usage by a lot because it was such an astonishingly robust and well balanced core.
Heck as strong as Shadow Rider was, it ended up being below Kyogre in threat level at the end of the generation.
I previously thought that BKC had some dumb opinions, but after seeing how handsome he was, I realize that I was wrong and should accept everything he says as gospel.
Okay, so, casual viewer of competitive pokemon stuff here.
Isn't the Latias vs Kyogre example describing Latias in basically the way almost every bulky ground type at #1 usage is used?
Like, taking Great Tusk as an example in Gen 9. It seems to me to be the only hazard removal pokemo that's actually good that also is capable of beating gholdengo.
Landorus throughout the years shows pretty similar dynamics to other threats in those respective metas.
So what makes them different?
Kyogre probably OU by Gen 11/12
Considering Kyogre is STILL a top 10 Pokemon even this gen, and thus is showing zero signs of slowing down... uhhhh yeah no.
I win!
#FreeKyogre
Qwilfish. Why.
Wow something this concise seems out of character
So basically, ban snorlax in gen 2?
if you ban GSC Snorlax its not even GSC OU anymore. people who play the format are fine with snorlax existing like that so banning it helps absolutely no one. bans are more nuanced when it comes to older generations where things have just been like that and people who play it are fine with it
If all Ubers were unbanned to OU, not all of them would be banned again right? At least thats what I think
Ik ive talked about this in comments a lot but this should be done and generations shouldnt start with a banlist
But that would just become the ubers metagame. No one is saying that gen 5 ubers is unbalanced,so if all the ubers mons drop to ou it would just become the ubers metagame in which only Uber mons will be used so if everything is broken that makes nothing broken.
Basically you are saying to make ubers into the standard metagame.
Yeah "banworthy" when i use pokemon smogon calls broken the opponents i face on the official games easily beat them.
Maybe you just ass idk what to tell you, or you got Frankenstein evs/ivs
I still think smogon banning is very subjective. I'm in particular not at all confident that the argument based on "helping the better player win" is valid, because I never see people making this argument back their argument up with actual (directly relevant) statistics.
Nevertheless, most of smogon's decisions are fine, and Ubers is generally less fun than OU because OU has reasonable bans.
I disagree with a lot of your opinions, especially how confident they are, but I still find it worth listening to these videos so I can have a better understanding of the mind of the average smogonite.
@melismati bro typed all that just for an excuse to use smogonite
Bro used the S-word
@@melismatiyou could at least try and sound honest instead of blatantly approaching in bad faith and not wanting true discussion.
@@melismatihey what's your opinion on machamp in gen 4
Now explain why they did not ban Terrastralize and why it is healthy.
"Oh you built a team to be able to handle 'X'? Now it's a different type that beats your counter or check!"
The community voted to not ban it; This was because Tera was considered skillful. Why? Well, let’s say a baxcalibur came onto the field, and was obviously going to set up. However, you had an iron valiant out, or decided to switch it in. Baxcalibur is most definitely using Tera, so you scout it out. However, in Baxcaliburs case, it was far too versatile and it getting one turn could win a game. Those mons get banned, but the ones that are not as powerful stay; Simple. Another thing is mons usually have one or two types that they Tera into. Dnite turns normal, gliscor into water, etc. And even then, if your team is flexible enough, you’ll still be able to deal with it.
No the better player wins regardless we ban stuff that isn't fun.
This is why the fuck smogon kills its own player base. Y’all would rather ban lando in Oras and deal with ~50+ % lando T and clef games for the entire future of the format.
What the actual fuck are you talking about
Lando-T's dominance in ORAS is a decade outdated, and certainly isn't "the entire future of the format." Lando isn't even the best ground-type anymore, it only has half the usage of Excadrill and is constantly placed outside the top 20 in the viability rankings. Clef is pretty popular still but nowhere near the 50+% usage that you suggest (it usually hovers around 20-25%). There's an abundance of powerful steel-types, Excadrill, M-Scizor, M-Metagross, Bisharp, and Heatran are all extremely common and keep Clef in check well.