Joker’s answer is the one that’s confusing as fuck and makes no sense but is the correct answer, and Maruki’s answer is the one that looks the simplest and most logical but is incorrect.
Actually both are the right answer. It's how they came to that answer that differs. Maruki wants to give away happiness. Joker wants to earn happiness.
@Orga777 The actions of the phantom thieves are evil or at least bad if you consider that they are forcing the changes. It is not of the victims own accord. Kasumi had a pretty good point about the phantom thieves. At the very end the phantom thieves were acting mostly for their own benefit because they would be punished if they didnt. I kinda doubt that you are supposed to see anyone as hero in persona 5
@Orga777 It's called "stealing" hearts for a reason lol. They literally warp reality by brainwashing targets into realizing the error of their ways. Like, for example, Kawakami was being blackmailed into paying that family with the dead kid, and instead of having her just deal with it, you steal the family's hearts so suddenly they don't want the hush money anymore. That's not letting her run away from a problem?
I mean, depends. Are the people in his new reality even alive? If no one feels sorrow, that pretty much means no one ever dies, and their actions seem like he is putting them “on rails” rather than fixing their problem and letting them go. (P3 spoilers) Oh but Maruki might have unleashed Nyx by fusing the realities or some shenanigans if he succeeded
Ah yes removing all free will and consent from the lives of every living person exactly what the god of control was trying to do but with a pretty bow put on it, very heroic. Altruism does nott equal good or heroic. Good intentions do not negate harm.
I realized today: the final round against Yaldabaoth makes you summon a Persona and use it's power to win. The final round against Maruki takes away your personas and makes you settle it hand to hand
the battle against Yaldabaoth was about humanity wishing for their freedom to make decisions. the battle against Maruki was about returning the world to way it should be by force, by the will of a few.
@@Mojo1356 That's the real commonality, it's about allowing humans to choose for themselves. Still, it's not like Maruki was WRONG, per se... Yaldabaoth, on the other hand, was just a dingus.
@@SirFuzzi A good way to think about is that like they said, Maruki did take Yaldabaoth's place. But we sympathize with him because unlike Yaldabaoth he isn't evil. But the question is if that changes your ideals. Did we stand against Yaldabaoth because we believe humans should not be controlled by a higher being? Or do would we lay down our arms and accept control merely because the ruler is a benevolent one?
To show how much "escapist" this reality is, just look how Maruki granted Sumire's wish of becoming Kasumi. Even though he has the power to revive dead people, she chose to become Kasumi so that she doesn't have to feel inferior to her anymore while also pretending she's doing good for Kasumi.
That... wasn't what she wanted. Sumire confided in him that she wanted to live as Kasumi, so that's what he allowed her to do. If he had said "I want my sister back", I'm certain he would have done so.
Actually he didn't have enough power to bring Kasumi back when he first met and changed Sumire, he only became the new God of Control and had the ability to do things that affect the world (not just an individual persons outlook) after December because the world was completely merged with the metaverse.
He only got the ability to rewrite reality when Yaldabaoth was defeated so he could take mementos. Otherwise he could only change the cognition of others similar to the Phantom Thieves so at the time it was his only viable solution for someone that likely would have killed themselves later anyway
@@bennyharvey6710 True, however he could have brought her back after the Thieves beat Yaldabaoth. I mean, he nonchalantly brought back Wakaba Isshiki and Kunikazu Okumura while brainwashing each of their kids into believing their parent never died in the first place. He could’ve easily changed Sumire’s memories into believing Kasumi never died, as well as letting her live on with Kasumi’s personality. However, since this wasn’t what she specifically requested of Maruki (even if requesting would be unintentional), this isn’t what he decided to do. Plus, he probably just felt that her living on as Kasumi was better since it takes away her inferiority complex she has as Sumire. Of course, he’s not correct on that, but his heart was in the right place.
@@superthicc7657 True... I think he thought that she would suffer from feeling inferior. She was not suffering being Kasumi, because her vision of her sister was a happy girl that finds a "better" way to get out of grief. Also, sorry if there's any gramatical error lol
@Orga777 I barely used the Thieves Den outside of the tutorial so forgot it real quick lmao Don't remember being like "wow this is great" like a lot of the other tracks
Orga777 same. I never went to thieves den and i beat the game yesterday so i went there and its actually pretty sick. At least i can change the bgm to prison labor thank god
this ost is good but not as good as the additons of persona 4 golden. Good songs from here include I Believe, this song, this song without vocals, gentle madman, and the opening song. Golden outclasses this with snowflakes (both versions), the new battle theme song, shin misturo tensei, and that new area’s theme even though that area is highly controversial.
I understand how you felt. What the final boss did was only out of good will... I was unsure if I should go for the true ending or the "bad" ending. In the end I decided the true ending and was still unsure if that was the right decision. I felt so bad for taking his dream away but knew it had to be done. For the sake of everyone.
Sheolitarian yeah. It’s not just about ideals anymore. Winning also means making Akechi cease to be. God- I love Maruki. As a misguided “villain”, he might be one of my favorites.
Bruh Lemon Unfortunately not, I must admit persona 5 was my first game to play in the series but I so desperately want to play P3+ P4, I’ve seen the anime for P4 though and own the P3 movies
Maruki: You don't have to do this anymore. Please... throw away your masks! Phantom Thieves: ...k [they do] [it summons their personas] Maruki: I have made... a colossal tactical error.
Both of these comments are great! I also seriously liked the symbolism with Joker taking off his glasses on the train to rid himself of the image of the Phantom Thief him who no longer exists.
I just beat the game. Listening to this song again makes me realize how tragic of a character Maruki really is. Adam Kadmon shook me to the core when I saw him, but I became so worried that Maruki was going to die... He's far from a villain. He's a great man with good intentions, but those intentions led to a misguided path that he believed was the right direction to take. You can't blame him though- he lost the one person he cared so deeply for, and he was so conviced that rewriting reality to create happiness was the only way to escape him. It was shocking when Maruki turned out to be the true antagonist, but again, he is far from an evil human. I think Maruki and Adam Kadmon has become my new favorite final boss battle of all time, and Persona 5 Royal is now on a throne that I don't believe can even be overthrown. Thank you Atlus, thank you for creating a character that truly had me nearly in tears over.
Yaldabaoth is still the true main antagonist. It’s just that Maruki somehow took his place with his Persona when Yaldaboath was killed. Edit: even so, Maruki is far from a villain, if drowned in suffering so much that he lost sight of what was right.
BoneCold Plays I’m right there with you that Kadmon was underwhelming. Even so, I had more fun and a slightly harder time than with Yaldabaoth (Yaldabaoth was way too easy as a final boss. At least Maruki has phase 1 going for him, which is 1 of the hardest fights in the game)
Oh I was fucking BEGGING for him to not be killed off; he didn't deserve death at all. His character as a whole, just like his palace, are simply FANTASTIC and so incredibly structured. When I saw his friend in the city while saying goodbye, and he commented about not seeing him, I dropped; because I also just spoke to the Jazz club owner about Akechi.
It's truly poetic, neither the Phantom Thieves nor Maruki are right or wrong, the only advantage they have is that we play as them. Nonetheless, we all feel, we all KNOW, Maruki isn't the bad guy here. The car that killed Kasumi is.
While I don’t approve of Maruki’s reality where everything is a lie for the sake of being an easy path, at the same time, I felt guilty for robbing the guy of a well-intentioned dream. If that was the point of the third semester of Royal, then well done.
@@WednesdayMan That's kinda been the point of most of the persona games. Half the time they're "people are depressed and want to die so the gods shall end the world," otherwise they're "people would be happier if the real world being shit didn't hold them down so the gods shall give them their fantasies." Neither solution addressing the root of the problem- that the real world is absolute dogshit- is where you come in to slap those gods upside the face and fix the problem yourself one small step at a time.
Well actually It's not really a lie since everything in that reality is real It's just that the phantom thieves don't want to accept it because it goes against everything they went through to be the people that they are
choosing to live in a fake reality or another knowing that this is all fake, just because of someone's good intentions and no malicious doesn't make his action good. he is taking free will to end sorrow via brainwashing and twisting what reality is, isletting the truth go And also giving up to break those lies and deceptions that you fought since the beginning of the game, and accepting a twisted '' good'' reality just as all those who you fought. actively giving up to rebel for everyone's freedom intertwines with everything that you have done to this point, it stings but thats life.
Man, I just finished P5R a few days ago and man that was so much more of a rollercoaster than the original game! Maruki's palace was so emotionally conflicting with how both sides had good and understandable points to their stance. PTs point out there are people who would genuinely benefit from Maruki's reality but it would rob the chance of people who could become stronger through their hardships. While Maruki admits that facing and moving on from your trauma is healthier for the individual. But as Maruki points out, most people can't do this cause of how life dogpiles you and it only takes some small bullshit to put you back at square one or even further. Even calling out that the Phantom Thieves of all people should understand where he's coming from. Maruki is right too when it comes to the Phantom Thieves, most if not all the members would live horrible lives had they not met Joker and gained supernatural powers to change their predicament. Sumire even admits that had she not been manipulated to think she was Kasumi by Maruki, she'd probably commit suicide before she could meet Joker who helped deal with her trauma. There's a big problem with Maruki's reality though (other than the fact that humanity will stagnate into oblivion). The happiness that Maruki gives to other is what he believes will make them happy meaning that there is some huge bias to his "salvation". Like Maruki removes the deaths of Wakaba, Okumura and Makoto and Sae's father to give these Phantom Thieves happiness. However, despite it being the source of her trauma, Maruki doesn't undue Kasumi's death. Even when Sumire returns to her original self he doesn't offer this solution to her implying he believes that Sumire living as Kasumi is the only way she'll be happy. So the game gives us two options: Live in a new reality where we are happy but said happiness is not only fake but is also determined by someone else's idea of what's happy for you or return to a cruel world where despite the hardship it is possible (though never guaranteed) for you to grow and come out a better person. Man, I love these types of conflicts where there is no "right" answer.
Also, everyone would be living in the palms of Maruki's palms. The other issue I take with it, what happens when Maruki dies? Does his palace collapse 40, 50, 60 years from now? What implications would that have on people living in his ideal world?
@@TeaMMatE11 considering he replaced Grail's place in the world before Mementos could collapse naturally, I doubt he would stop existing with this amount of human faith going through him.
Lyrics: Beliefs that I have my faith in It never seems to See the light of day Shadow is where my mind state's in Cause people tend to be Sensitive to the new ways But it doesn't have to be like this Don't sleep through Dreams that can come true No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore You won't need to Strive for greatness Believe in me That you don't need to suffer from Anything
You don't need to make a wrong turn Just requires guidance from above We don't need to have this conflict Cause I can take you To the place of delight Give peace Of mind To the whole world Don't sleep through Dreams that can come true No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore You won't need to Strive for greatness Believe in me That you don't need to suffer from Anything You can throw your mask away No more pretending You've been tied down for the longest of the time Be free You deserve better You should forever be free Don't sleep through Dreams that can come true No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore You won't need to Strive for greatness Believe in me That you don't need to suffer from Anything
Don't let go of your dreams No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore You won't need to Strive for greatness Believe in me That you don't need to suffer from anything No more
@@pixellego4773 the thing that puts this ahead of yaldaboath is how it conveys so well the thought process of the final boss. It really feels like they're talking to you
*TRYING TO BE A SPOILER-FREE COMMENT* It really hurt so much when after the battle, he went from a calm "Let's begin" to a painful "I GAVE UP EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING!" Got dayum Atlus, you've written such an incredible final boss. One that can't even be called a villain, but a hero with a truly warped heart. Ever since beating P5R, I've had what people call "post-Royal depression." And his story hurts the second-most, only behind the man in the black mask.
I call this Post Jrpg depression. Beating any game that long just depresses you because you've spend so much time in that world with those characters. And just like the comment above me, I had already beaten this game, yet I still got the feels, especially with that Akechy scene in the end.
Don't forget that scream of frustration that most therapists/counselors tell people to do when stressed. He let that out and felt so much better. Tuckered himself out even; but was soooooo glad he didnt die. I was damn near screaming and begging that he didnt
That scream he made at the end gave me goosebumps all that built in frustration and he finally lets it out after all that i actually beat the game yesterday
As I listened to the battle theme, I couldn’t help but feel the conflict everyone else did, but it felt like a plea, not from the Phantom Thieves but from Maruki. This wasn’t just a boss theme, it truly was HIS theme. He rewrote the cognition of the world, he’s even rewrote the song of rebellion we hear in our hearts.
I loved this fight for how tough it was emotionally. "You can live a life with no regrets. All your past mistakes, traumas, fears, gone. No strings attached, no debts owed, no monkey's paws. The only "catch"? You live a life of willful ignorance, you deny yourself your own past that shaped you into who you are today. We would all love to live a life without troubles, but ultimately those trials and tribulations help shape who we are, help us *understand* who we are.
Man, just did this fight last night. I don’t think any boss ever has made me hesitate on if this was the right choice or not. I honestly almost accepted Maruki’s offer before the fight, since if we fought Maruki and won, Akechi would die for real. However, since its what Akechi wanted, then that made me realize that would make me a terrible friend not respecting his wishes.
I nearly accepted the first time if the flashbacks didn't remind me that all of our friends grew to not want to live through lies so I wouldn't let them be forced to is the way I saw it
God this ending hurt but I feel like it would've hurt so much more if I was laughing at the fact that the punch animations look like they came from a canceled drunken bar fighting game
Against yaldaboath you harnessed the power of the masses to creat a massive persona to kill god. Against maruki he, at least implicitly, has humanity behind him and he himself triggers a change in his persona. But he can't quite bring himself to beat the protagonist who made this all possible. Until he becomes one with his persona and to a degree surrenders himself to the will of the masses/his desire to save them all. And this time you use your own power and that of your friends to handle this threat. The final mission of the phantom thieves where they truly can stand on their own and go into the future and no longer need their masks.
The most conflicting final boss of recent memory. He had a vision of a perfect world, one without strife or sorrow. One where everyone is happy. However, his methods of forcing it upon everyone, making life almost meaningless.. for me, doesn't sit well. His character was absolutely fantastic though. Loved the final boss too, although I kinda cheese it with Ryujis third awakening ability, combined with the cleaning spray and the party ATK up consumables. I two shot his persona once I took the tentacles down with Ryuji, Akechi, and Sumire. Then I baton passed it to a Joker with over 66 STR, charged, ATK up, and enemy DEF down, on the final baton passed. Fucking nuts for damage. And I love how they were able to do more with akechi this time around, he doesn't hate us, but rather likes us as a rival would. Sort of like how best friends would act, they cuss, beat eachother up, but all in the name of seeing who's better and for fun. Royal was a big improvement in my opinion. Also if you wanna tell me what you liked or didn't, please do! It's always nice to see others opinions! Also I liked the new treasure theme, fucking perfect don't @ me xD
I was pretty happy with the gameplay improvements that were put in royal, and the last palace was far better than everything else in the original game. I was worried about royal because I thought it would be like p4 golden (which I feel is worse than the original p4), but I was surprisingly pleased with this game.
The final palace was definitely a step up from Golden. Same thing for the characters, but the third semester stuff seems almost a bit tacked on... its still good, but can be better. Another thing about it being tacked on is that the ending was missing some things. Namely, an item for Maruki, Sumire, and Akechi, as well as an ending for each of them. 100% for Sumire, cause she just says bye and we done. Just... no. Also we have Akechis glove.... item is right there. Maruki can just be his treasure. The endings still good, but only for the og party.
I used a lot of Life Wall... probably could have been easier if I brought Ryuji, but NO WAY was I leaving Sumire on the bench-- her abilities aren't that useful, but she *had* to be there. She *deserved* to be there.
Battle for everyone's souls finally has an equal. Nyx's battle theme is utterly perfect as the finale of 3 finale, as though it's the final battle of everything, no more future, just this last stand, and the music fits it being a remix of the velvet room, the one place where peace is the closest thing in your mind. This is the end, and you are ready to fight against it, whatever happens, you'll have no regrets. But this follows another tune, instead of symbolizing the end of 5, it's the antithesis of your journey, close your eyes to the problems and live a perfect life,instead of keeping your eyes fully aware and stopping the problem where it stands. It's facing everything you fought for, and you need to fight it, no matter the result, you'll have nothing but regrets. Two sides of the same coin, two perfect themes to fit the final battle.
Did he have the power to force joker to forget? he could have tried but I'm not sure Maruki could have stopped him until he got to the height of his power. although joker might have been fucked without Akechi so idk
@@datonebri5361 He can't. The bad ending of the third semester (the one where you don't beat the palace in time) you see the darkest side of Maruki; potentially his true shadow. He says something along the lines of "No matter what I do to try and make you happy, you will forever feel the pain of knowing that you failed, and you can't go back. So, if you can't live a happy life, what's the point of living?" He then makes it so he eternally sleeps, and no one goes to check on him because everyone's perfect reality doesn't include him. The only times he wakes up is when Lavenza tries to contact him, but even her spirit (butterfly) dies before she can reach him, again and again for all of time.
@@datonebri5361 He had the power to literally force them out of reality/existence, he chose not to because he really wanted to get them to see his point of view and agree with him. His reality wasn't an illusion, it was the real deal, because he took control of the heart of Mementos and had equivalent power(if not more) than Yaldabaoth, he was a god at that point.
The Phantom Thieves: "Ugh, why can't there be strong, righteous, and upstanding adults anymore?" Maruki: *is a strong, righteous, upstanding adult.* The Phantom Thieves: "Wait, that's illegal.
I don't think he's exactly righteous, and he's weak-willed in a way. He didn't do the right thing by brainwashing people just to give them what he thinks they should have, and he says that you should run away from your problems if it becomes too much, which kinda makes sense but at what point? He was too weak, too afraid, to face reality so he made all of this so that he doesn't have to face reality and instead just make a world cooked up just by what he thinks is right and wrong. His morality is especially clarified in the question part of his palace and it's kinda backwards. TL;DR He's strong and upstanding, but he's not righteous and his own palace shows how many flaws his morality and philosophy has, and how even yet he pushes this philosophy and morality onto others
@@frisolaxod3835 I think he meant to say the Phantom Thieves wanted adults to stand up and fix this messed up world. Maruki did exactly that, although long-term, it would mean humanity's growth would regress and eventually cause humanity to cease to exist. Imagine if Maruki's reign lasted for 1000 years and then he suddenly stopped/died; humanity would be so detached from negative feelings, emotions, work, and struggle, they would just collapse on themselves. They quite literally wouldn't have the mental capacity to handle the stress.
@@frisolaxod3835 His point was that not everyone(in fact, not most people) are capable of overcoming huge burdens or tragedies. The Phantom Thieves were exceptional people with strong willpower, not the average NPC. The majority would most likely rather have Maruki's world, there was no bad guy in Royal.
At a heavy loss you found a world with no pain or suffering! We love you Billy Kametz. May heaven be the world you hoped for. No, that we all hope for! You are missed by many and loved by even more.
At 2:32 it's a lot less intense than the rest of the song. "You can throw your mask away" The mask as you know is the tool the cast of persona 5 used to summon their persona. Since this song is from his perspective, he is basically saying "we don't have to fight anymore" I think you're supposed to feel conflicted during this battle. I think that's the entire point honestly. If they wanted to go for a "let's destroy this evil person" then they would have not only made Maruki much less sympathetic, but they also would have probably played a song with the same tone as take over, last surprise, or life will change. It also would have been from the phantom thieves perspective. As it is right now, I really don't think it's a stretch to say that he was intentionally made morally gray. Though most people would agree he is in the wrong, it's really not hard to see why people would want to side with him. At the very least, even if you don't agree with him, the game did a fantastic job of showing you why he believes what he does. You're not supposed to want this battle to happen. You're not supposed to want to fight him. And the game doesn't make you if you really don't want to. If you really wanted to, you could side with him and have a completed playthrough. Many wouldn't consider that a good ending or agree with that choice. But whether it's good or not, it is a valid choice. The game lets you choose that option for yourself and I honestly think that's part of the games beauty. Because let's be honest here. Even if you completely disagree with his end goal, aren't you genuinely curious what would happen if someone like Maruki existed in our reality? Isn't the reason most people are against him because they have thought about what would happen in a reality like this? People care about our reality, and I believe that people genuinely want the best for it. This is why Maruki isn't a villain, just the antagonist. He is not a god that is very difficult to sympathize with. He's a man who has experienced the world and has come to a different conclusion on how it should be handled compared to most other people. He is the hero of his own story. He genuinely believes he's saving the world. He says "you can throw your mask away" because he doesn't want to battle you as much as you don't want to battle him. He is inviting you to join in on the world he wants to create peacefully. By far one of the most interesting characters i've ever seen I think
Nice way to look at it, but at the end of the day, he wants the same thing Yaldabaoth wanted, just for different reasons. He's still intent on enslaving humanity, only this time to his believed version of their happiness, than to eternal servitude.
as mogana put it, some people would benefit form maruki's reality, the issue is that he's shoving it down the throat of EVERYONE, even those who wish to face their problems head on, or even those who may decide to face their problems after running for a bit (kinda like kaSumi) letting time close the wounds for a bit before actually starting to heal the wounds. its my main issue with maruki's reality, its not a bad idea, but he uses it indiscriminately and i dont want him to rob people of the choice to make their own reality, even if it runs the risk of becoming distorted
What I love about the fight with Maruki is the small moments where he tries to influence your allies with false dreams. And each time they rebuke him saying they can stand on their while fighting back. Kinda feels like payback for Joker reminding them of the true reality from earlier. Each time they resist, it kinda fills you up with pride qith how strong they are and are standing up for themselves as a testament to Joker's efforts for them in turn. Its even more amazing when they try and actively protect you for it.
A perfect world according to Maruki, Persona 4 side Nanako's mother is alive, and Yu Narukami is left confused as the ones who died in the TV world cases are alive, Tohru Adachi is free but he's confused too, as he was suddenly released once again, him and Yu Narukami agree to look into the TV world to find nothing, Yosuke Hanamura is dating Saki Konishi, and Yukiko is dealing with less work in the Amagi Inn as the incident with mayumi yamano didn't happen while Chie is a highly accomplished martial artist who gets a life time supply of her favourite foods, Teddie is hanging around at Junes working with Yosuke. Kanji is running a successful business making knitted animals alongisde his mother's textile shop. A perfect world according to Maruki, Persona 3 side The Persona 3 Protagonist is back (Minato arisato or Makoto Yuki your pick), as well as Chidori, the Persona 3 Protagonist notices something is horribly wrong and begins to panic, but after midnight he calms down, realising the dark hour is gone, he can appreciate the work he's done saving the world, He finds Mitsuru hanging around her father someone who should be dead, as well as Yukari's father being alive, everyone is happy but the protagonist is left confused wondering what is going on? he decides to ask Mitsuru if she knows about anything persona related, she mentions Inaba and the TV world, the Protagonist makes a connection, and goes to inaba with his old evoker, he goes into the TV world to find nothing connected to this strange reality, but he encounters Yu Narukami and Adachi there, they're both confused wondering what is going on, they also find Namatame who notices this is all strange too, as he's suddenly been elected as an official of Inaba, feel free to add more to this.
Ok then..... With the power of the universe, p3 protag sees a trickster, a false god, the wishes of the masses, and a man with a persona and a lot of tentacles. He says to Narukami that we need to go to Shibuya, for the sake of reality. They arrive and enter Leblanc, out of Yuki's power. They meet the Phantom Thieves of Hearts and set out together to break free the rest of SEES and the Investigation Team. Even Adachi works along with them, maybe for Akechi or just that a world controlled by someone else pisses me off. They do, in the same way as the others. Yuki and Aigis also have a heartfelt reunion. Then, its time to take on the palace January 31st (3 days before the heist) Yuki sits on a hill, looking at the moon. It has been X years since he sealed Nyx and saved the world from the fall. Yu and Akira come and says that we will continue his work, as they are the Wild Cards. Yuki smiles a bit, then heads back to prepare for the heist. February 3rd (The Day of Fates) They head up the tree to face Maruki. Yu and the others deny everything Maruki states, from Yuki being alive again, to Yu not being alone, to Adachi "having all the bitches." They are determined to win this.... no matter the cost. Once Adam fuses with Maruki, the other Wild Cards join Akira in making the final shot. They also grab onto Jokers grappling hook as they leave. When Maruki stops the Mona Copter, the Wild Cards let go and Yu and Yuki join in the fist fight, but, when Maruki starts to fall, all three pull up, as they all represent the human heart that Maruki needs to understand. The truth, the grief, and the rebellion. As reality returns, Yuki says goodbye as he reestablishes the seal and Yu helps Akira out as well. He is there in Leblanc too when he returns and they make a toast to Yuki, the messiah. Yu also joins Akira on his way home, as they both imagine Yuki. Worth it!!! I swear we need a p5r sequel (or Arena) that has the previous cast plus KaSumi.
@@sparktwochristopher7240 Akira, Ren. At this point, ill choose the shortest. Feel free though to call him Ren. He just has an identity crisis. Even more than Yuki and FeMC.
Just beat the game yesterday. Honestly a much better ending than the original. I didn't expect to get emotional at a game I had already beaten, but this version exceeded my expectations of what I thought Royal would be. Now for NG+ once I finish my other 20 games I have in my backlog
For real at the start i was like excited to have more and more to play in the middle game i was sick already of the game and wanted it to finish already but when i beat yaldaboath and then maruki i leftwanting more yet again it was the same when i finished strikers too
I don't know about that, in P5S from what I've heard, there are references to P5R, so perhaps this is intended to allow both P5R and Normal P5 players to enjoy the story.
@@ohyeahcentral oh, ok, I'll wait see if the official translation incorporates details from P5R, since looking at a fan translation is the equivelant of looking at a game that isn't out yet, so I'll wait.
My only complaint with this fight is that we didn't get a proper showdown with Adam Kadmon, with this track playing rather than just a glorified cutscene; that truly would have been one of the best final bosses I would have ever fought in a game
I’ve never had such a level headed boss for a game that was so understanding Maruki was conflicted about having to fight such a great character at times you understood his points. When you confront him in the final battle I chose “Sorry” with no hesitation and it felt like the only thing I could say :/
@@someclevername8167 I didn't even use Myriad Truths during the fight except as an overkill finishing move for the Azathoth phase. Although that might have been because I had Joker functioning as the healer.
@@dylanattix2765 myryad thruth would be an apropriate move, you are working to dispel the illusionary world that maruki made. and reveal the real reality that it tries to replace
I absolutely love how they did Maruki’s world, it’s exactly the ending a player would want after beating base P5, a world where nothing has gone wrong and everyone is happy but at the same time it’s unsettling and unsatisfying as it reverses all of the hardships the characters had to go through and removes the character growth they had. I honestly think that if you where forced to personally remove each of the main characters from their fantasy instead of them all coming to their senses on their own the choice on whether to keep Maruki’s world would be a lot harder.
Gives me so much nostalgia to when I got to this point. It felt like in a way I was saving maruki from himself and not fighting the giant monster trying to kill us. Almost like an adachi kinda vibe.
Unfortunately, the path to hell is paved with good intentions. That was the phrase I was reminded of when I finished Maruki's palace. He really wanted what was best for everyone,almost to the point where you could say he loved and cared about everyone. But his reality was far from anything that should exist. The very laws of nature were almost decimated, and imagine a situation where a mother's desire to be happy is fulfilled because she never wanted her child? Her child would either be alone,or be raised by a puppet version of their mother. A fake. That would be horrible.
I think that taking advantage of all of the almost cartoonishly distorted villains in P5 and then making an antagoinst that is actually genuinely a good person, but misguided, is an amazing idea. It's like the game tries to get you to expect the final boss to be a complete asshole but he's actually trying his best to help people. No surprise as to how Maruki is a fan favorite antagonist.
I feel like Markui would have an interesting battle with the Investigation Team, when you think about it Maruki’s motivations are a more pure version of Adachi’s they both want to rewrite a reality they deem cruel and unfair, Adachi of course is absolutely insane while Maruki is misguided but still I think the comparison is interesting
It's indescribable how emotional I got in fight with Maruki. The biggest Rebel of all of the characters in Persona 5 which had really good point and idea. He lost everything, got power to revolt and we still must fight him when he wanted to make everyone happy (I mean, I know it's kinda false reality but still)... AND THIS MUSIC DIDN'T HELP AT THAT MOMENT. This is the best final boss with the best final boss theme of all time imo.
What I love most about this theme is that it’s Maruki’s, it’s not like rivers in the desert which is the phantom thieves, and more aptly, Jokers theme, it’s not blooming villain either. This song is all about Maruki and his ideals, it’s his plea to the phantom thieves to stop fighting and to let his idealized world come to fruition.
I liked that there was one, but I think if instead of Maruki willingly getting into the fight it was a fist fight to the death. The final battle joker and maruki brawling it out to end a near perfect game
It’s really hard to reject Maruki’s offer... I seriously thought about accepting it, knowing it would not be the true ending. But I applied Akira’s feelings to myself. Do I want my dreams and goals and happiness thrusted upon me, or do I want to feel the pleasure of achieving by my own power and the help of those I trust? I desire to gain what I work hard for. Maruki isn’t wrong whatsoever. He’s so morally right that it likely would turn out for the worst. Yaldabaoth’s, as the God of Control, was trying to control the masses. Maruki would unintentionally do the same thing, and erase one of the greatest gifts of mankind: free will. Maruki would take that away for everyone to be “happy,” unintentionally destroying one of the most valuable assets of humans. The Phantom Thieves understood how admirable his morals were, it was likely heartbreaking. But free will of the people is what built us to this point... sort of. It’s a big part of it at least. I love Maruki for his desires to give everyone what the avidly dream of. But I cannot agree, because if I was in Akira’s/Joker’s shoes... I want that ability to get what I want through hard work and having that passion to go beyond with the own abilities that I hone everyday. The Third Semester is so amazing in writing. The antagonist is one who’s morals conflict with the protagonist. In a situation where the morals are both good, it leaves the player/reader questioning who IS right? I mean story wise, it’s almost always the protagonist. But there’s that “what if...” that it gives you. That is the sign of an amazingly written story, even if it’s only an arc.
my main issue was that he was forcing it upon everyone, so yes, like you it was mainly an issue of free will too, though i didnt nesecarily disagree with his idea for using his actuallalization as a tool to help the mentally ill
Beliefs that I have my faith in It never seems to See the light of the day Shadow is where my mind state's in Cause people tend to be Sensitive to the new ways But it doesn't have to be like this Don't sleep through Dreams that can come true No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore You won't need to Strive for greatness Believe in me That you don't need to suffer from Anything You don't need to make a wrong turn Just requires guidance from above We don't need to have this conflict Cause I can take you To the place of delight Give peace Of mind To the whole world Don't sleep through Dreams that can come true No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore You won't need to Strive for greatness Believe in me That you don't need to suffer from Anything You can throw your mask away No more pretending You've been tied down for the longest of the time Be free You deserve better You should forever be free Don't sleep through Dreams that can come true No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore You won't need to Strive for greatness Believe in me That you don't need to suffer from Anything Don't let go of your dreams No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore You won't need to Strive for greatness Believe in me That you don't need to suffer from anything No more
I will die on the hill that Maruki's ONLY fault was ignoring patient consent. Restoring Shiho's body, un-murdering Wakaba and Akechi, and everything else Maruki did is entirely justifiable. Those who think Maruki's powers were the problem should learn the phrase "sour grapes".
Amazing how they wrote maruki truly makes you feel bad for him you bond with him until rank 10 not knowing hes gonna be a boss fight soon and then when you get to his fight and you see him really trying and being motivated to win against you is awesome asf his determination and jokers determination clashing against eachother is awesome and for me both of his boss themes mean that for me
SPOILERS AHEAD FOR P5R and P3. I don't think Maruki's reality would have lasted too long even if Joker had accepted it. When Maruki's influence reaches far enough, I can't imagine the Investigation Team, the Seekers of Truth, to be susceptible to it. I also don't think the former members of S.E.E.S. would accept it either. Not to mention an outside source like Elizabeth, who cared about her guest so much she left the Velvet Room to seek a way to free his soul from being a Seal. There's zero chance she'd accept such a grand alteration to the world her guest sacrificed himself to save, that goes for S.E.E.S. as well, they would never let his sacrifice mean nothing. Maruki lost to the Thieves so there's no doubt he'd lose to the combined forces of S.E.E.S. and the Investigation Team. Especially when they've faced far greater threats.
Such a straight upgrade from the original game's ending. Royal's story additions blow 4 Golden's out of the water. Super satisfied with the final boss sequences.
SPOILERS: Maruki is by no means a villain by a flawed hero. What I mean by flawed hero is that he believes he is doing heroic acts by making peoples desires achievable and changing the world by removing its hardships. That is why his sin isn’t a sin at all unlike the other Places we’ve faced since his is Charity because he is giving the world everything he has got by making himself suffer. The flawed part is that his methods are clearly unjust, or at least unjust in the context of the Phantom Thieves. Maruki is basically removing people’s ability of free will by playing this role of God. That’s why we fight him: to show whose ideals are the strongest.
I finished Royal yesterday after beating Persona 5 vanilla and... Wow, they really made like "perfect game 2.0" lol. Now, I see some flaws here and there but is trully one of my favorites game of all time. Maruki is such a well written character, his motivations, personality... I really liked him and "Kasumi" so much. I was afraid they would be just an addition to the game without implications and lazy writing. I'm so happy I was wrong. Also, this game really loves to make me cry lol Edit: also, I feel like it's okay to run away, but not forever. Taking "Kasumi" as an example, she would probably had commited suicide if she didn't escaped for a little. But what Maruki thought was that she had to escape forever. He is trully a kind guy and "Kasumi" really is thankful to him, but after finding herseft trully, she sees that living the way she lived for a long time wouldn't be good for her. Damn I love this game so much
P5R spoilers // . . . . An antagonist isn't particularly someone who is evil, it's a term to describe someone against the wishes or morals of the protagonist, in this case Hero/Joker & Team Royal wanting to return to the original reality in comparison to Maruki's cognitive reality. Maruki tries to reconcile with the hero throughout the third semester and ultimately they fight for each other's realities. And after all that, the hero wanted to rescue Maruki after their final battle, because they made a promise before their fight in which whomever won had their reality realised. To be honest, I wouldn't blame Maruki for the choices he made. Maruki has to be one of the best written antagonists in JRPG... no, video gaming history. There's the times we get to rank his social link, we get to understand the character as an ally of the protagonist, and with that he wanted to see the Phantom Thieves' ideals. His redemption at the end where he is a taxi driver goes to show that Maruki saw through to the promise they made. TL;DR: Maruki is the lawful good kind of antagonist.
Maruki literally had me like that greentext of the Chad who plays a video game, agrees with the antagonist, and loses to him on purpose. Seriously, I know it’s the “wrong” choice, but if I was actually in Joker’s shoes, I probably would’ve accepted maruki’s deal.
This song is really the theme of a man who doesn't want to fight but he is being forced. Also I like how there's a little bit of elements from a couple of themes, the first I think of is mementos
Does no one remember that one part in Maruki's rank? "Now, this is my question to you... When do you truly feel pain in your heart, Ren-kun?" -When someone betrays me. -When I lie. >>-When I get punched. *Flash forward to THAT scene*
SPOILERS FOR PERSONA 3 IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YET!!!! I just had a depressing thought. If Maruki's reality effected all of Japan. That means that in Maruki's reality the Persona 3 MC and Shinju where alive and hanging out with the SEES crew having the time of their lives.
Let's think this through: Maruki wants us to live in a perfect utopia without suffering and hardship. Wouldn't existence be pointless? When was the last time you watched a movie or read a book without conflict? Never, because if everything is perfect, then there is no story. Humans need to strive. Stories are about going from point A to B. Through resistance we grow, and appreciate the good times. If there is nothing to strive towards or aim at, we become aimless and hollow.
I only heard this song on Spotify but to me, this song is all about sacrificing it sounds like everyone else fighting an evil joker. With line involving not crying, suffering, and being tied for the longest. Seeing how Joker is leader of the phantom thieves, this sounds like everyone is fighting Shadow Joker so he doesn’t have to suffer anymore.
Davilos Coyote I think it’s cause they needed the support of all the people just like the first time he did it. First time he summoned him all the people believed in the phantom thieves but I guess not this time.
Satanael only showed up cause the people dreamed of someone or something to defy what was essentially God to them, thus Satanael. In Maruki's world, everyone is happy, thus have nothing to wish for, thus no Satanael.
Adam Kadmon was not a god. He was a man's cognition of what man could become. As a result, shooting him with a cognitive "embodiment of sin" wouldn't have the same effect as if you shot a god with it. Besides, the people weren't against him. Nor did they need to be. You were.
And to add on to this whole thing, Adam Kadmon is supposed to be the first human that lived, or at least was thought to live. Adam Kadmon is actually the form he took before becoming Adam in the bible, meaning he was closer to god, more of a divine being rather than being a god.
Игры
Maruki becomes a taxi driver after the finale.
So now,
He takes people where they need to go,
Instead of where they want to go.
Stop furthering my obsession with this game pls
@@claudiopolonia7854 never!
I'm currently in my post persona depression since I just beat Royal for the first time xD
That is ironic.
@@KaylinMajestic but it doesn’t have to be like this
@@KaylinMajestic you deserve better
joker and maruki are like the 2 smart kids with different answers on tests
And both answers are correct
@@veryexciteddog963 yes
Joker’s answer is the one that’s confusing as fuck and makes no sense but is the correct answer, and Maruki’s answer is the one that looks the simplest and most logical but is incorrect.
@@phantomtearsca well both lead to good endings
Actually both are the right answer. It's how they came to that answer that differs. Maruki wants to give away happiness. Joker wants to earn happiness.
When the villain is just another hero with a different solution.
@Orga777 The actions of the phantom thieves are evil or at least bad if you consider that they are forcing the changes. It is not of the victims own accord. Kasumi had a pretty good point about the phantom thieves.
At the very end the phantom thieves were acting mostly for their own benefit because they would be punished if they didnt.
I kinda doubt that you are supposed to see anyone as hero in persona 5
@Orga777 spoilers
Yeah but that was kasumi not sumire
@Orga777 It's called "stealing" hearts for a reason lol. They literally warp reality by brainwashing targets into realizing the error of their ways. Like, for example, Kawakami was being blackmailed into paying that family with the dead kid, and instead of having her just deal with it, you steal the family's hearts so suddenly they don't want the hush money anymore. That's not letting her run away from a problem?
I mean, depends. Are the people in his new reality even alive? If no one feels sorrow, that pretty much means no one ever dies, and their actions seem like he is putting them “on rails” rather than fixing their problem and letting them go.
(P3 spoilers)
Oh but Maruki might have unleashed Nyx by fusing the realities or some shenanigans if he succeeded
Ah yes removing all free will and consent from the lives of every living person exactly what the god of control was trying to do but with a pretty bow put on it, very heroic. Altruism does nott equal good or heroic. Good intentions do not negate harm.
Persona 5: Shoot a god in the face to win
Persona 5 Royal: Shoot your counselor in the face to win
And then fist fight him like Liquid Ocelot vs Solid Snake
Checkmate
Persona 4: Nuke a goddess.
persona 3 : give the finger to the core of death's physical manifestation
Counselor that became a god*
I realized today: the final round against Yaldabaoth makes you summon a Persona and use it's power to win. The final round against Maruki takes away your personas and makes you settle it hand to hand
Plus you get to fight the boss with Air Punches like Saitama!
the battle against Yaldabaoth was about humanity wishing for their freedom to make decisions.
the battle against Maruki was about returning the world to way it should be by force, by the will of a few.
TheKHfan358over3d in a way though, both battles consist of fighting for the right to make decisions.
@@Mojo1356 That's the real commonality, it's about allowing humans to choose for themselves.
Still, it's not like Maruki was WRONG, per se... Yaldabaoth, on the other hand, was just a dingus.
@@SirFuzzi A good way to think about is that like they said, Maruki did take Yaldabaoth's place. But we sympathize with him because unlike Yaldabaoth he isn't evil. But the question is if that changes your ideals. Did we stand against Yaldabaoth because we believe humans should not be controlled by a higher being? Or do would we lay down our arms and accept control merely because the ruler is a benevolent one?
You know things are morally grey when the Antagonist gets a Lyn Vocal song.
Shido and the Holy Grail got one.
Not much moral grey about their intentions.
But I agree that Maruki is an exceptionally well written antagonist.
@@moonraven6145 I always saw rivers in the desert as shido's theme considereding yaldaboth has his own theme as well as the Dr.
@@recht_voor_zijn_raap5506 Rivers in the Desert isn't specific to them though because it plays in other fights such as the velvet twins
@@priestofronaldalt it's k
Jokers theme
@@totallynotaferret maybe...
Rest in peace
Billy Kametz
This song here is for you
he did a phenomenal job voicing him
@@Skyeleafe yes
Yes he did
May he rest in the reality he sought to make true. One of peace and lack of suffering.
@@blobyes211 yes I know he is
Adam Kadmon: I cannot fail! I must not fail you all!
Also Adam Kadmon: And here comes a giant fist!
"MARUKI NO!" Joker said calmly
To show how much "escapist" this reality is, just look how Maruki granted Sumire's wish of becoming Kasumi. Even though he has the power to revive dead people, she chose to become Kasumi so that she doesn't have to feel inferior to her anymore while also pretending she's doing good for Kasumi.
That... wasn't what she wanted. Sumire confided in him that she wanted to live as Kasumi, so that's what he allowed her to do. If he had said "I want my sister back", I'm certain he would have done so.
Actually he didn't have enough power to bring Kasumi back when he first met and changed Sumire, he only became the new God of Control and had the ability to do things that affect the world (not just an individual persons outlook) after December because the world was completely merged with the metaverse.
He only got the ability to rewrite reality when Yaldabaoth was defeated so he could take mementos. Otherwise he could only change the cognition of others similar to the Phantom Thieves so at the time it was his only viable solution for someone that likely would have killed themselves later anyway
@@bennyharvey6710 True, however he could have brought her back after the Thieves beat Yaldabaoth. I mean, he nonchalantly brought back Wakaba Isshiki and Kunikazu Okumura while brainwashing each of their kids into believing their parent never died in the first place. He could’ve easily changed Sumire’s memories into believing Kasumi never died, as well as letting her live on with Kasumi’s personality. However, since this wasn’t what she specifically requested of Maruki (even if requesting would be unintentional), this isn’t what he decided to do. Plus, he probably just felt that her living on as Kasumi was better since it takes away her inferiority complex she has as Sumire. Of course, he’s not correct on that, but his heart was in the right place.
@@superthicc7657 True... I think he thought that she would suffer from feeling inferior. She was not suffering being Kasumi, because her vision of her sister was a happy girl that finds a "better" way to get out of grief.
Also, sorry if there's any gramatical error lol
Not often you find a final boss theme being sang from the bosses perspective
So melancholy too
The new songs in Royal are impeccable man
@Orga777 I barely used the Thieves Den outside of the tutorial so forgot it real quick lmao
Don't remember being like "wow this is great" like a lot of the other tracks
Orga777 same. I never went to thieves den and i beat the game yesterday so i went there and its actually pretty sick. At least i can change the bgm to prison labor thank god
this ost is good but not as good as the additons of persona 4 golden. Good songs from here include I Believe, this song, this song without vocals, gentle madman, and the opening song. Golden outclasses this with snowflakes (both versions), the new battle theme song, shin misturo tensei, and that new area’s theme even though that area is highly controversial.
@Orga777 bruh that song is great
@@davidgallo2927 golden has trash mumble rap what are you on
Never felt so guilty/ conflicted during a boss fight in my life
I understand how you felt. What the final boss did was only out of good will... I was unsure if I should go for the true ending or the "bad" ending. In the end I decided the true ending and was still unsure if that was the right decision. I felt so bad for taking his dream away but knew it had to be done. For the sake of everyone.
Ikr
Aaron Padley seems to me that you’ve never fought Koromaru, that hits you right in the feels.
Sheolitarian yeah. It’s not just about ideals anymore. Winning also means making Akechi cease to be. God- I love Maruki. As a misguided “villain”, he might be one of my favorites.
Bruh Lemon Unfortunately not, I must admit persona 5 was my first game to play in the series but I so desperately want to play P3+ P4, I’ve seen the anime for P4 though and own the P3 movies
Maruki: You don't have to do this anymore. Please... throw away your masks!
Phantom Thieves: ...k
[they do]
[it summons their personas]
Maruki: I have made... a colossal tactical error.
Akechi: "...You _did_ tell us to throw away our masks, Maruki."
Maruki: "I was being figurative, not literal..."
Both of these comments are great! I also seriously liked the symbolism with Joker taking off his glasses on the train to rid himself of the image of the Phantom Thief him who no longer exists.
Also Maruki: very well...what is it that you do? Hm..."PERSONA."
MYRIAD TRUTHS
@@ReijiNRen Fun Fact: The main reason Joker wears is glasses to look less menacing. Other than that they're purely cosmetic.
I just beat the game. Listening to this song again makes me realize how tragic of a character Maruki really is. Adam Kadmon shook me to the core when I saw him, but I became so worried that Maruki was going to die...
He's far from a villain. He's a great man with good intentions, but those intentions led to a misguided path that he believed was the right direction to take. You can't blame him though- he lost the one person he cared so deeply for, and he was so conviced that rewriting reality to create happiness was the only way to escape him.
It was shocking when Maruki turned out to be the true antagonist, but again, he is far from an evil human. I think Maruki and Adam Kadmon has become my new favorite final boss battle of all time, and Persona 5 Royal is now on a throne that I don't believe can even be overthrown.
Thank you Atlus, thank you for creating a character that truly had me nearly in tears over.
Yaldabaoth is still the true main antagonist. It’s just that Maruki somehow took his place with his Persona when Yaldaboath was killed.
Edit: even so, Maruki is far from a villain, if drowned in suffering so much that he lost sight of what was right.
BoneCold Plays I’m right there with you that Kadmon was underwhelming. Even so, I had more fun and a slightly harder time than with Yaldabaoth (Yaldabaoth was way too easy as a final boss. At least Maruki has phase 1 going for him, which is 1 of the hardest fights in the game)
Agreed Marc. Maruki was SO well written, i just beat the game yesterday and i'm still just so impressed.
Oh I was fucking BEGGING for him to not be killed off; he didn't deserve death at all. His character as a whole, just like his palace, are simply FANTASTIC and so incredibly structured.
When I saw his friend in the city while saying goodbye, and he commented about not seeing him, I dropped; because I also just spoke to the Jazz club owner about Akechi.
Marc Orellana Maruki becomes a taxi driver after the finale.
He now takes people where they need to go,
Instead of where they want to go.
It's truly poetic, neither the Phantom Thieves nor Maruki are right or wrong, the only advantage they have is that we play as them. Nonetheless, we all feel, we all KNOW, Maruki isn't the bad guy here.
The car that killed Kasumi is.
And Wakaba
@@dereckromero5409 But Akechi killed Wakaba by making her have a mental shutdown in front of that car tho
@@kurocomics Though Akechi was the cause of death, the car is the thing that actually killed Wakaba
Me. I was driving that car >:)
@@dereckromero5409 it all traces back to Shido
While I don’t approve of Maruki’s reality where everything is a lie for the sake of being an easy path, at the same time, I felt guilty for robbing the guy of a well-intentioned dream. If that was the point of the third semester of Royal, then well done.
now that I think of it, it sounds like Izanamis reasoning, wanting everyone to be happy living in the lies as opposed to a harsh reality.
@@WednesdayMan That's kinda been the point of most of the persona games. Half the time they're "people are depressed and want to die so the gods shall end the world," otherwise they're "people would be happier if the real world being shit didn't hold them down so the gods shall give them their fantasies."
Neither solution addressing the root of the problem- that the real world is absolute dogshit- is where you come in to slap those gods upside the face and fix the problem yourself one small step at a time.
Well actually
It's not really a lie since everything in that reality is real
It's just that the phantom thieves don't want to accept it because it goes against everything they went through to be the people that they are
@@WednesdayMan it's not a lie though, maruki literally altered reality unlike Izanami
choosing to live in a fake reality or another knowing that this is all fake, just because of someone's good intentions and no malicious doesn't make his action good.
he is taking free will to end sorrow via brainwashing and twisting what reality is, isletting the truth go
And also giving up to break those lies and deceptions that you fought since the beginning of the game, and accepting a twisted '' good'' reality just as all those who you fought.
actively giving up to rebel for everyone's freedom intertwines with everything that you have done to this point, it stings but thats life.
I wasn’t crying during this battle, you were
True.
No u
I cried after the battle
Manly tears for 3 hours no less
I wasn't crying. But I definitely felt a mix of sadness and determination fighting him
“The only true heroes this world ever possessed...”
“...Are those who possess the Spirit of one. No matter what route that Spirit takes them.”
Underrated comment
Man, I just finished P5R a few days ago and man that was so much more of a rollercoaster than the original game!
Maruki's palace was so emotionally conflicting with how both sides had good and understandable points to their stance. PTs point out there are people who would genuinely benefit from Maruki's reality but it would rob the chance of people who could become stronger through their hardships.
While Maruki admits that facing and moving on from your trauma is healthier for the individual. But as Maruki points out, most people can't do this cause of how life dogpiles you and it only takes some small bullshit to put you back at square one or even further. Even calling out that the Phantom Thieves of all people should understand where he's coming from.
Maruki is right too when it comes to the Phantom Thieves, most if not all the members would live horrible lives had they not met Joker and gained supernatural powers to change their predicament. Sumire even admits that had she not been manipulated to think she was Kasumi by Maruki, she'd probably commit suicide before she could meet Joker who helped deal with her trauma.
There's a big problem with Maruki's reality though (other than the fact that humanity will stagnate into oblivion). The happiness that Maruki gives to other is what he believes will make them happy meaning that there is some huge bias to his "salvation". Like Maruki removes the deaths of Wakaba, Okumura and Makoto and Sae's father to give these Phantom Thieves happiness. However, despite it being the source of her trauma, Maruki doesn't undue Kasumi's death. Even when Sumire returns to her original self he doesn't offer this solution to her implying he believes that Sumire living as Kasumi is the only way she'll be happy.
So the game gives us two options: Live in a new reality where we are happy but said happiness is not only fake but is also determined by someone else's idea of what's happy for you or return to a cruel world where despite the hardship it is possible (though never guaranteed) for you to grow and come out a better person.
Man, I love these types of conflicts where there is no "right" answer.
Also, everyone would be living in the palms of Maruki's palms. The other issue I take with it, what happens when Maruki dies? Does his palace collapse 40, 50, 60 years from now? What implications would that have on people living in his ideal world?
@@TeaMMatE11 considering he replaced Grail's place in the world before Mementos could collapse naturally, I doubt he would stop existing with this amount of human faith going through him.
Lyrics:
Beliefs that I have my faith in
It never seems to
See the light of day
Shadow is where my mind state's in
Cause people tend to be
Sensitive to the new ways
But it doesn't have to be like this
Don't sleep through
Dreams that can come true
No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore
You won't need to
Strive for greatness
Believe in me
That you don't need to suffer from
Anything
You don't need to make a wrong turn
Just requires guidance from above
We don't need to have this conflict
Cause I can take you
To the place of delight
Give peace
Of mind
To the whole world
Don't sleep through
Dreams that can come true
No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore
You won't need to
Strive for greatness
Believe in me
That you don't need to suffer from
Anything
You can throw your mask away
No more pretending
You've been tied down for the longest of the time
Be free
You deserve better
You should forever be free
Don't sleep through
Dreams that can come true
No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore
You won't need to
Strive for greatness
Believe in me
That you don't need to suffer from
Anything
Don't let go of your dreams
No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore
You won't need to
Strive for greatness
Believe in me
That you don't need to suffer from anything
No more
CringeSauce thank you
@@comradeninja4333 your welcome
Wow. Thank you, these lyrics sound exactly like the ideas that the antagonist believed in
@@samuelm5140 Yep
It's "dreams that can come true", not "dreams that can't come true"
insane music, might be my favourite last boss soundtrack of all persona games
Its a close tie between this and jaldabsoth for me
Walter
Yaldabaoth was dope but this is just too good
@@pixellego4773 the thing that puts this ahead of yaldaboath is how it conveys so well the thought process of the final boss. It really feels like they're talking to you
Craig David i agree. I wrote that before fighting maruki and now this beats it by a landslide. Yaldabaoth is still a great listen tho
this song will forever hit different, rest in peace billy kametz, everyone misses you lots ❤️
"The pathway to hell is paved with good intentions" -Henry G. Bohn
So Morgana was right:
"LET'S SETTLE THIS WITH OUR FISTS!" :P
Well, Paw in his case
*TRYING TO BE A SPOILER-FREE COMMENT*
It really hurt so much when after the battle, he went from a calm "Let's begin" to a painful "I GAVE UP EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING!" Got dayum Atlus, you've written such an incredible final boss. One that can't even be called a villain, but a hero with a truly warped heart.
Ever since beating P5R, I've had what people call "post-Royal depression." And his story hurts the second-most, only behind the man in the black mask.
I call this Post Jrpg depression. Beating any game that long just depresses you because you've spend so much time in that world with those characters.
And just like the comment above me, I had already beaten this game, yet I still got the feels, especially with that Akechy scene in the end.
Don't forget that scream of frustration that most therapists/counselors tell people to do when stressed. He let that out and felt so much better. Tuckered himself out even; but was soooooo glad he didnt die. I was damn near screaming and begging that he didnt
That final brawl was heartbreaking. Maruki was a man wanted to heal everyone's pain but didn't know how to overcome his own.
That scream he made at the end gave me goosebumps all that built in frustration and he finally lets it out after all that i actually beat the game yesterday
As I listened to the battle theme, I couldn’t help but feel the conflict everyone else did, but it felt like a plea, not from the Phantom Thieves but from Maruki. This wasn’t just a boss theme, it truly was HIS theme. He rewrote the cognition of the world, he’s even rewrote the song of rebellion we hear in our hearts.
I loved this fight for how tough it was emotionally.
"You can live a life with no regrets. All your past mistakes, traumas, fears, gone. No strings attached, no debts owed, no monkey's paws. The only "catch"? You live a life of willful ignorance, you deny yourself your own past that shaped you into who you are today.
We would all love to live a life without troubles, but ultimately those trials and tribulations help shape who we are, help us *understand* who we are.
Man, just did this fight last night. I don’t think any boss ever has made me hesitate on if this was the right choice or not. I honestly almost accepted Maruki’s offer before the fight, since if we fought Maruki and won, Akechi would die for real. However, since its what Akechi wanted, then that made me realize that would make me a terrible friend not respecting his wishes.
Exactly! Akechi didn't wanted to be a puppet in an orchestrated reality, even if it meant for him to cease existing.
Hey tepig ninja how's it going
I nearly accepted the first time if the flashbacks didn't remind me that all of our friends grew to not want to live through lies so I wouldn't let them be forced to is the way I saw it
God this ending hurt but I feel like it would've hurt so much more if I was laughing at the fact that the punch animations look like they came from a canceled drunken bar fighting game
Against yaldaboath you harnessed the power of the masses to creat a massive persona to kill god. Against maruki he, at least implicitly, has humanity behind him and he himself triggers a change in his persona. But he can't quite bring himself to beat the protagonist who made this all possible. Until he becomes one with his persona and to a degree surrenders himself to the will of the masses/his desire to save them all. And this time you use your own power and that of your friends to handle this threat. The final mission of the phantom thieves where they truly can stand on their own and go into the future and no longer need their masks.
The most conflicting final boss of recent memory. He had a vision of a perfect world, one without strife or sorrow. One where everyone is happy. However, his methods of forcing it upon everyone, making life almost meaningless.. for me, doesn't sit well. His character was absolutely fantastic though. Loved the final boss too, although I kinda cheese it with Ryujis third awakening ability, combined with the cleaning spray and the party ATK up consumables. I two shot his persona once I took the tentacles down with Ryuji, Akechi, and Sumire. Then I baton passed it to a Joker with over 66 STR, charged, ATK up, and enemy DEF down, on the final baton passed. Fucking nuts for damage. And I love how they were able to do more with akechi this time around, he doesn't hate us, but rather likes us as a rival would. Sort of like how best friends would act, they cuss, beat eachother up, but all in the name of seeing who's better and for fun. Royal was a big improvement in my opinion. Also if you wanna tell me what you liked or didn't, please do! It's always nice to see others opinions! Also I liked the new treasure theme, fucking perfect don't @ me xD
I agree, this whole fight was amazing!!! I love what they did with akechis character, he was so sassy in a cold sort of way
I was pretty happy with the gameplay improvements that were put in royal, and the last palace was far better than everything else in the original game. I was worried about royal because I thought it would be like p4 golden (which I feel is worse than the original p4), but I was surprisingly pleased with this game.
@@MadDucky-bx9jv They really put their effort in the final palace and it shows
The final palace was definitely a step up from Golden. Same thing for the characters, but the third semester stuff seems almost a bit tacked on... its still good, but can be better. Another thing about it being tacked on is that the ending was missing some things. Namely, an item for Maruki, Sumire, and Akechi, as well as an ending for each of them. 100% for Sumire, cause she just says bye and we done. Just... no. Also we have Akechis glove.... item is right there. Maruki can just be his treasure. The endings still good, but only for the og party.
I used a lot of Life Wall... probably could have been easier if I brought Ryuji, but NO WAY was I leaving Sumire on the bench-- her abilities aren't that useful, but she *had* to be there. She *deserved* to be there.
Battle for everyone's souls finally has an equal.
Nyx's battle theme is utterly perfect as the finale of 3 finale, as though it's the final battle of everything, no more future, just this last stand, and the music fits it being a remix of the velvet room, the one place where peace is the closest thing in your mind. This is the end, and you are ready to fight against it, whatever happens, you'll have no regrets.
But this follows another tune, instead of symbolizing the end of 5, it's the antithesis of your journey, close your eyes to the problems and live a perfect life,instead of keeping your eyes fully aware and stopping the problem where it stands. It's facing everything you fought for, and you need to fight it, no matter the result, you'll have nothing but regrets.
Two sides of the same coin, two perfect themes to fit the final battle.
Im just thinking about how Maruki could’ve easily made the thieves 100% powerless against him but he didn’t
Did he have the power to force joker to forget? he could have tried but I'm not sure Maruki could have stopped him until he got to the height of his power. although joker might have been fucked without Akechi so idk
He wanted you to pick that powerlessness, its why you get so many options in the game to make that choice to give in to his lunacy
@@datonebri5361 He can't. The bad ending of the third semester (the one where you don't beat the palace in time) you see the darkest side of Maruki; potentially his true shadow. He says something along the lines of "No matter what I do to try and make you happy, you will forever feel the pain of knowing that you failed, and you can't go back. So, if you can't live a happy life, what's the point of living?" He then makes it so he eternally sleeps, and no one goes to check on him because everyone's perfect reality doesn't include him. The only times he wakes up is when Lavenza tries to contact him, but even her spirit (butterfly) dies before she can reach him, again and again for all of time.
@@datonebri5361 He had the power to literally force them out of reality/existence, he chose not to because he really wanted to get them to see his point of view and agree with him. His reality wasn't an illusion, it was the real deal, because he took control of the heart of Mementos and had equivalent power(if not more) than Yaldabaoth, he was a god at that point.
The Phantom Thieves: "Ugh, why can't there be strong, righteous, and upstanding adults anymore?"
Maruki: *is a strong, righteous, upstanding adult.*
The Phantom Thieves: "Wait, that's illegal.
I don't think he's exactly righteous, and he's weak-willed in a way. He didn't do the right thing by brainwashing people just to give them what he thinks they should have, and he says that you should run away from your problems if it becomes too much, which kinda makes sense but at what point? He was too weak, too afraid, to face reality so he made all of this so that he doesn't have to face reality and instead just make a world cooked up just by what he thinks is right and wrong. His morality is especially clarified in the question part of his palace and it's kinda backwards.
TL;DR He's strong and upstanding, but he's not righteous and his own palace shows how many flaws his morality and philosophy has, and how even yet he pushes this philosophy and morality onto others
@@frisolaxod3835 God i seriously need to motivate myself back into New Game+ to live that ending myself
@@frisolaxod3835 I think he meant to say the Phantom Thieves wanted adults to stand up and fix this messed up world. Maruki did exactly that, although long-term, it would mean humanity's growth would regress and eventually cause humanity to cease to exist.
Imagine if Maruki's reign lasted for 1000 years and then he suddenly stopped/died; humanity would be so detached from negative feelings, emotions, work, and struggle, they would just collapse on themselves. They quite literally wouldn't have the mental capacity to handle the stress.
@@frisolaxod3835 His point was that not everyone(in fact, not most people) are capable of overcoming huge burdens or tragedies. The Phantom Thieves were exceptional people with strong willpower, not the average NPC. The majority would most likely rather have Maruki's world, there was no bad guy in Royal.
Goddammit, Billy Kametz, was taken from us way too soon. RIP
Makes you wish you had Maruki's Actualization, so you could just erase cancer completely.
This hits a lot harder now. RIP Billy Kametz
At a heavy loss you found a world with no pain or suffering! We love you Billy Kametz. May heaven be the world you hoped for.
No, that we all hope for!
You are missed by many and loved by even more.
At 2:32 it's a lot less intense than the rest of the song.
"You can throw your mask away"
The mask as you know is the tool the cast of persona 5 used to summon their persona. Since this song is from his perspective, he is basically saying "we don't have to fight anymore"
I think you're supposed to feel conflicted during this battle. I think that's the entire point honestly. If they wanted to go for a "let's destroy this evil person" then they would have not only made Maruki much less sympathetic, but they also would have probably played a song with the same tone as take over, last surprise, or life will change. It also would have been from the phantom thieves perspective.
As it is right now, I really don't think it's a stretch to say that he was intentionally made morally gray. Though most people would agree he is in the wrong, it's really not hard to see why people would want to side with him. At the very least, even if you don't agree with him, the game did a fantastic job of showing you why he believes what he does.
You're not supposed to want this battle to happen. You're not supposed to want to fight him. And the game doesn't make you if you really don't want to. If you really wanted to, you could side with him and have a completed playthrough. Many wouldn't consider that a good ending or agree with that choice. But whether it's good or not, it is a valid choice. The game lets you choose that option for yourself and I honestly think that's part of the games beauty.
Because let's be honest here. Even if you completely disagree with his end goal, aren't you genuinely curious what would happen if someone like Maruki existed in our reality? Isn't the reason most people are against him because they have thought about what would happen in a reality like this? People care about our reality, and I believe that people genuinely want the best for it.
This is why Maruki isn't a villain, just the antagonist. He is not a god that is very difficult to sympathize with. He's a man who has experienced the world and has come to a different conclusion on how it should be handled compared to most other people. He is the hero of his own story. He genuinely believes he's saving the world.
He says "you can throw your mask away" because he doesn't want to battle you as much as you don't want to battle him. He is inviting you to join in on the world he wants to create peacefully.
By far one of the most interesting characters i've ever seen I think
Nice way to look at it, but at the end of the day, he wants the same thing Yaldabaoth wanted, just for different reasons. He's still intent on enslaving humanity, only this time to his believed version of their happiness, than to eternal servitude.
as mogana put it, some people would benefit form maruki's reality, the issue is that he's shoving it down the throat of EVERYONE, even those who wish to face their problems head on, or even those who may decide to face their problems after running for a bit (kinda like kaSumi) letting time close the wounds for a bit before actually starting to heal the wounds. its my main issue with maruki's reality, its not a bad idea, but he uses it indiscriminately and i dont want him to rob people of the choice to make their own reality, even if it runs the risk of becoming distorted
What I love about the fight with Maruki is the small moments where he tries to influence your allies with false dreams. And each time they rebuke him saying they can stand on their while fighting back. Kinda feels like payback for Joker reminding them of the true reality from earlier. Each time they resist, it kinda fills you up with pride qith how strong they are and are standing up for themselves as a testament to Joker's efforts for them in turn. Its even more amazing when they try and actively protect you for it.
the counselor really needed some counselling ngl
I loved that the starting chords reference Keeper of Lust, but immediately goes to a minor chord rather than a major chord.
The song mentions how tears shouldn’t fall from your cheeks anymore but I cry every time listening to this song. It’s beautiful.
A perfect world according to Maruki, Persona 4 side
Nanako's mother is alive, and Yu Narukami is left confused as the ones who died in the TV world cases are alive, Tohru Adachi is free but he's confused too, as he was suddenly released once again, him and Yu Narukami agree to look into the TV world to find nothing, Yosuke Hanamura is dating Saki Konishi, and Yukiko is dealing with less work in the Amagi Inn as the incident with mayumi yamano didn't happen while Chie is a highly accomplished martial artist who gets a life time supply of her favourite foods, Teddie is hanging around at Junes working with Yosuke. Kanji is running a successful business making knitted animals alongisde his mother's textile shop.
A perfect world according to Maruki, Persona 3 side
The Persona 3 Protagonist is back (Minato arisato or Makoto Yuki your pick), as well as Chidori, the Persona 3 Protagonist notices something is horribly wrong and begins to panic, but after midnight he calms down, realising the dark hour is gone, he can appreciate the work he's done saving the world, He finds Mitsuru hanging around her father someone who should be dead, as well as Yukari's father being alive, everyone is happy but the protagonist is left confused wondering what is going on? he decides to ask Mitsuru if she knows about anything persona related, she mentions Inaba and the TV world, the Protagonist makes a connection, and goes to inaba with his old evoker, he goes into the TV world to find nothing connected to this strange reality, but he encounters Yu Narukami and Adachi there, they're both confused wondering what is going on, they also find Namatame who notices this is all strange too, as he's suddenly been elected as an official of Inaba,
feel free to add more to this.
plz write a fanfiction it's amazing
Ok then.....
With the power of the universe, p3 protag sees a trickster, a false god, the wishes of the masses, and a man with a persona and a lot of tentacles. He says to Narukami that we need to go to Shibuya, for the sake of reality. They arrive and enter Leblanc, out of Yuki's power. They meet the Phantom Thieves of Hearts and set out together to break free the rest of SEES and the Investigation Team. Even Adachi works along with them, maybe for Akechi or just that a world controlled by someone else pisses me off. They do, in the same way as the others. Yuki and Aigis also have a heartfelt reunion. Then, its time to take on the palace
January 31st (3 days before the heist)
Yuki sits on a hill, looking at the moon. It has been X years since he sealed Nyx and saved the world from the fall. Yu and Akira come and says that we will continue his work, as they are the Wild Cards. Yuki smiles a bit, then heads back to prepare for the heist.
February 3rd (The Day of Fates)
They head up the tree to face Maruki. Yu and the others deny everything Maruki states, from Yuki being alive again, to Yu not being alone, to Adachi "having all the bitches." They are determined to win this.... no matter the cost. Once Adam fuses with Maruki, the other Wild Cards join Akira in making the final shot. They also grab onto Jokers grappling hook as they leave. When Maruki stops the Mona Copter, the Wild Cards let go and Yu and Yuki join in the fist fight, but, when Maruki starts to fall, all three pull up, as they all represent the human heart that Maruki needs to understand. The truth, the grief, and the rebellion. As reality returns, Yuki says goodbye as he reestablishes the seal and Yu helps Akira out as well. He is there in Leblanc too when he returns and they make a toast to Yuki, the messiah. Yu also joins Akira on his way home, as they both imagine Yuki.
Worth it!!! I swear we need a p5r sequel (or Arena) that has the previous cast plus KaSumi.
@@netherfire50 *Ren
Kanji and naoto are together
@@sparktwochristopher7240 Akira, Ren. At this point, ill choose the shortest. Feel free though to call him Ren. He just has an identity crisis. Even more than Yuki and FeMC.
Just beat the game yesterday. Honestly a much better ending than the original. I didn't expect to get emotional at a game I had already beaten, but this version exceeded my expectations of what I thought Royal would be.
Now for NG+ once I finish my other 20 games I have in my backlog
Persona 5 royal's true ending is the first ending to make me shed a tear or two, not vanilla not p4 or p3
I know. It’s so good and really demonstrates how the thieves have grown.
@@Mojo1356 exactly
Bruh if you didn't cry at Aigis's speech at the end of Persona 3, you could never wield a Persona because you have no soul
Same
How the fuck did P3 not make you cry? That ending was beautiful
Wish it didn't have to end. What a fantastic journey and memories.
me to
For real at the start i was like excited to have more and more to play in the middle game i was sick already of the game and wanted it to finish already but when i beat yaldaboath and then maruki i leftwanting more yet again it was the same when i finished strikers too
i know that P5S is a sequel to normal P5 but i hope that they atleast make a cameo for you know who
I don't know about that, in P5S from what I've heard, there are references to P5R, so perhaps this is intended to allow both P5R and Normal P5 players to enjoy the story.
@@WednesdayMan better idea, Royal characters and plot line are dlc
Dego-Mon yes please.
@@WednesdayMan That's not true, it's fake news going around Reddit and Social media.
@@ohyeahcentral oh, ok, I'll wait see if the official translation incorporates details from P5R, since looking at a fan translation is the equivelant of looking at a game that isn't out yet, so I'll wait.
My only complaint with this fight is that we didn't get a proper showdown with Adam Kadmon, with this track playing rather than just a glorified cutscene; that truly would have been one of the best final bosses I would have ever fought in a game
Glad to know I’m not the only one who’s heart strings were pulled during this battle..... Royal is just amazing!!!
I’ve never had such a level headed boss for a game that was so understanding Maruki was conflicted about having to fight such a great character at times you understood his points.
When you confront him in the final battle I chose “Sorry” with no hesitation and it felt like the only thing I could say :/
Now I feel like a jerk for machinegunning Makougons, Mapsiodynes and Megidolaons at him.
Don’t feel bad, I was shooting Morning Stars at him along with everything else
@@someclevername8167 I didn't even use Myriad Truths during the fight except as an overkill finishing move for the Azathoth phase. Although that might have been because I had Joker functioning as the healer.
@@dylanattix2765 myryad thruth would be an apropriate move, you are working to dispel the illusionary world that maruki made. and reveal the real reality that it tries to replace
Probably the most climactic final fight in a game I've seen ever.
I absolutely love how they did Maruki’s world, it’s exactly the ending a player would want after beating base P5, a world where nothing has gone wrong and everyone is happy but at the same time it’s unsettling and unsatisfying as it reverses all of the hardships the characters had to go through and removes the character growth they had. I honestly think that if you where forced to personally remove each of the main characters from their fantasy instead of them all coming to their senses on their own the choice on whether to keep Maruki’s world would be a lot harder.
Gives me so much nostalgia to when I got to this point. It felt like in a way I was saving maruki from himself and not fighting the giant monster trying to kill us. Almost like an adachi kinda vibe.
"wait I thought this was a 30 minute version is only the first few minutes the song?"
*sees clock*
"oh" *hits repeat*
One of the best examples of a tragic “villain “
One thing this game teaches you is that everyone has their own definition of Right and Wrong.
Unfortunately, the path to hell is paved with good intentions. That was the phrase I was reminded of when I finished Maruki's palace. He really wanted what was best for everyone,almost to the point where you could say he loved and cared about everyone. But his reality was far from anything that should exist. The very laws of nature were almost decimated, and imagine a situation where a mother's desire to be happy is fulfilled because she never wanted her child? Her child would either be alone,or be raised by a puppet version of their mother. A fake. That would be horrible.
finally finished royal, i've seen this song in my recommendations. glad i can finally listen to it with no spoilers to worry about.
*I Believe that Life Will Change*
*So Keep Your Faith, Throw Away Your Mask*
*And Wake Up. Get Up. Get Out There.*
I think that taking advantage of all of the almost cartoonishly distorted villains in P5 and then making an antagoinst that is actually genuinely a good person, but misguided, is an amazing idea. It's like the game tries to get you to expect the final boss to be a complete asshole but he's actually trying his best to help people. No surprise as to how Maruki is a fan favorite antagonist.
I Never Realized How Relatable This Song Is Because Of What I've Been Through In My Life.
I feel like Markui would have an interesting battle with the Investigation Team, when you think about it Maruki’s motivations are a more pure version of Adachi’s they both want to rewrite a reality they deem cruel and unfair, Adachi of course is absolutely insane while Maruki is misguided but still I think the comparison is interesting
Ll
It's indescribable how emotional I got in fight with Maruki. The biggest Rebel of all of the characters in Persona 5 which had really good point and idea. He lost everything, got power to revolt and we still must fight him when he wanted to make everyone happy (I mean, I know it's kinda false reality but still)... AND THIS MUSIC DIDN'T HELP AT THAT MOMENT. This is the best final boss with the best final boss theme of all time imo.
Adam Chadmon.
thank you for your time
A valid point, mister.
Without a shadow of a doubt the best final boss song from the entire persona franchise.
A fool with unwavering faith can move mountains that the wise only dream of, for the heart's conviction turns impossibilities into reality.
I'm so glad Atlus decided to port this masterpiece to Xbox and PC. I loved this game from start to finish. What a game 😍.
What I love most about this theme is that it’s Maruki’s, it’s not like rivers in the desert which is the phantom thieves, and more aptly, Jokers theme, it’s not blooming villain either. This song is all about Maruki and his ideals, it’s his plea to the phantom thieves to stop fighting and to let his idealized world come to fruition.
Persona 5 first boss: Kamoshida the rapist
Persona 5 final boss: therapist
Just got my Plat from this game. You know the antagonist is well written when you doubt your actions in fighting them.
That fist fight ..... 🤜 👨⚕️
I liked that there was one, but I think if instead of Maruki willingly getting into the fight it was a fist fight to the death. The final battle joker and maruki brawling it out to end a near perfect game
It’s really hard to reject Maruki’s offer... I seriously thought about accepting it, knowing it would not be the true ending. But I applied Akira’s feelings to myself. Do I want my dreams and goals and happiness thrusted upon me, or do I want to feel the pleasure of achieving by my own power and the help of those I trust? I desire to gain what I work hard for. Maruki isn’t wrong whatsoever. He’s so morally right that it likely would turn out for the worst. Yaldabaoth’s, as the God of Control, was trying to control the masses. Maruki would unintentionally do the same thing, and erase one of the greatest gifts of mankind: free will. Maruki would take that away for everyone to be “happy,” unintentionally destroying one of the most valuable assets of humans. The Phantom Thieves understood how admirable his morals were, it was likely heartbreaking. But free will of the people is what built us to this point... sort of. It’s a big part of it at least. I love Maruki for his desires to give everyone what the avidly dream of. But I cannot agree, because if I was in Akira’s/Joker’s shoes... I want that ability to get what I want through hard work and having that passion to go beyond with the own abilities that I hone everyday. The Third Semester is so amazing in writing. The antagonist is one who’s morals conflict with the protagonist. In a situation where the morals are both good, it leaves the player/reader questioning who IS right? I mean story wise, it’s almost always the protagonist. But there’s that “what if...” that it gives you. That is the sign of an amazingly written story, even if it’s only an arc.
my main issue was that he was forcing it upon everyone, so yes, like you it was mainly an issue of free will too, though i didnt nesecarily disagree with his idea for using his actuallalization as a tool to help the mentally ill
Beliefs that I have my faith in
It never seems to
See the light of the day
Shadow is where my mind state's in
Cause people tend to be
Sensitive to the new ways
But it doesn't have to be like this
Don't sleep through
Dreams that can come true
No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore
You won't need to
Strive for greatness
Believe in me
That you don't need to suffer from
Anything
You don't need to make a wrong turn
Just requires guidance from above
We don't need to have this conflict
Cause I can take you
To the place of delight
Give peace
Of mind
To the whole world
Don't sleep through
Dreams that can come true
No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore
You won't need to
Strive for greatness
Believe in me
That you don't need to suffer from
Anything
You can throw your mask away
No more pretending
You've been tied down for the longest of the time
Be free
You deserve better
You should forever be free
Don't sleep through
Dreams that can come true
No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore
You won't need to
Strive for greatness
Believe in me
That you don't need to suffer from
Anything
Don't let go of your dreams
No more tears shall drop from your cheeks anymore
You won't need to
Strive for greatness
Believe in me
That you don't need to suffer from anything
No more
While the third semester is basically the caligula effect plot i love how the boss has a very good intentions and not like the latter
I will die on the hill that Maruki's ONLY fault was ignoring patient consent. Restoring Shiho's body, un-murdering Wakaba and Akechi, and everything else Maruki did is entirely justifiable. Those who think Maruki's powers were the problem should learn the phrase "sour grapes".
I think you're tight
I awakened akechis 3rd persona but at what cost
Did you do it?
Yes.
What did it cost?
Akechi.
Amazing how they wrote maruki truly makes you feel bad for him you bond with him until rank 10 not knowing hes gonna be a boss fight soon and then when you get to his fight and you see him really trying and being motivated to win against you is awesome asf his determination and jokers determination clashing against eachother is awesome and for me both of his boss themes mean that for me
SPOILERS AHEAD FOR P5R and P3.
I don't think Maruki's reality would have lasted too long even if Joker had accepted it.
When Maruki's influence reaches far enough, I can't imagine the Investigation Team, the Seekers of Truth, to be susceptible to it. I also don't think the former members of S.E.E.S. would accept it either. Not to mention an outside source like Elizabeth, who cared about her guest so much she left the Velvet Room to seek a way to free his soul from being a Seal. There's zero chance she'd accept such a grand alteration to the world her guest sacrificed himself to save, that goes for S.E.E.S. as well, they would never let his sacrifice mean nothing. Maruki lost to the Thieves so there's no doubt he'd lose to the combined forces of S.E.E.S. and the Investigation Team. Especially when they've faced far greater threats.
Crazy that maruki could have wiped them from existence if he was evil..man scary thought
That would have made for a grand crossover: the protagonists of the previous two Persona stories completing what the Thieves started.
Such a straight upgrade from the original game's ending. Royal's story additions blow 4 Golden's out of the water. Super satisfied with the final boss sequences.
SPOILERS:
Maruki is by no means a villain by a flawed hero. What I mean by flawed hero is that he believes he is doing heroic acts by making peoples desires achievable and changing the world by removing its hardships. That is why his sin isn’t a sin at all unlike the other Places we’ve faced since his is Charity because he is giving the world everything he has got by making himself suffer. The flawed part is that his methods are clearly unjust, or at least unjust in the context of the Phantom Thieves. Maruki is basically removing people’s ability of free will by playing this role of God. That’s why we fight him: to show whose ideals are the strongest.
I’ll be real, the moment I saw maruki I went “is that sosuke aizen!?”. Imagine my surprise when he turns out to literally be aizen.
I finished Royal yesterday after beating Persona 5 vanilla and... Wow, they really made like "perfect game 2.0" lol. Now, I see some flaws here and there but is trully one of my favorites game of all time. Maruki is such a well written character, his motivations, personality... I really liked him and "Kasumi" so much. I was afraid they would be just an addition to the game without implications and lazy writing. I'm so happy I was wrong. Also, this game really loves to make me cry lol
Edit: also, I feel like it's okay to run away, but not forever. Taking "Kasumi" as an example, she would probably had commited suicide if she didn't escaped for a little. But what Maruki thought was that she had to escape forever. He is trully a kind guy and "Kasumi" really is thankful to him, but after finding herseft trully, she sees that living the way she lived for a long time wouldn't be good for her. Damn I love this game so much
Finished P5R just today and I feel the same way. Maruki is such a fantastic antagonist.
The reality is so close to fully change that even the final boss theme tries to convince you that accepting the new reality is the best option.
P5R spoilers //
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An antagonist isn't particularly someone who is evil, it's a term to describe someone against the wishes or morals of the protagonist, in this case Hero/Joker & Team Royal wanting to return to the original reality in comparison to Maruki's cognitive reality. Maruki tries to reconcile with the hero throughout the third semester and ultimately they fight for each other's realities. And after all that, the hero wanted to rescue Maruki after their final battle, because they made a promise before their fight in which whomever won had their reality realised. To be honest, I wouldn't blame Maruki for the choices he made. Maruki has to be one of the best written antagonists in JRPG... no, video gaming history. There's the times we get to rank his social link, we get to understand the character as an ally of the protagonist, and with that he wanted to see the Phantom Thieves' ideals. His redemption at the end where he is a taxi driver goes to show that Maruki saw through to the promise they made.
TL;DR: Maruki is the lawful good kind of antagonist.
I am Takuto Von Maruki
What's funny is that they have the same voice actor aswell
@@cameron5515 That's the idea lol
CbuttyGaming who
Pixellego 47 Ferdinand Von Aegir from Fire Emblem Three Houses. Ferdinand and Maruki have the same voice actor
*Edelgard intensifies*
The song that will play the day the pandemic ends.
@@AquaLantern cheek the name of the song and then it makes sense why they made that comment
It took way too long for me to get this.
Maruki literally had me like that greentext of the Chad who plays a video game, agrees with the antagonist, and loses to him on purpose. Seriously, I know it’s the “wrong” choice, but if I was actually in Joker’s shoes, I probably would’ve accepted maruki’s deal.
This song is really the theme of a man who doesn't want to fight but he is being forced.
Also I like how there's a little bit of elements from a couple of themes, the first I think of is mementos
Does no one remember that one part in Maruki's rank? "Now, this is my question to you... When do you truly feel pain in your heart, Ren-kun?"
-When someone betrays me.
-When I lie.
>>-When I get punched.
*Flash forward to THAT scene*
This song makes me tear up.
“i must have always been afraid. afraid that you and i wouldn’t wish for the same reality.”
SPOILERS FOR PERSONA 3 IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YET!!!!
I just had a depressing thought. If Maruki's reality effected all of Japan. That means that in Maruki's reality the Persona 3 MC and Shinju where alive and hanging out with the SEES crew having the time of their lives.
Full Blind reaction to this game, best game I ever played
Crazy how this fight could have gone from a challenging but fair fight to an absolute nightmare if the baton pass mechanic didn’t exist
How? How did they top Rivers in the Desert? Just wow.
Let's think this through: Maruki wants us to live in a perfect utopia without suffering and hardship. Wouldn't existence be pointless?
When was the last time you watched a movie or read a book without conflict? Never, because if everything is perfect, then there is no story. Humans need to strive. Stories are about going from point A to B. Through resistance we grow, and appreciate the good times.
If there is nothing to strive towards or aim at, we become aimless and hollow.
*throws away my mask... and takes turns with Maruki to punch each other*
After beating playing through and beating P5Royal for the first time, Maruki has become one of my favorite well intentioned antagonists.
I only heard this song on Spotify but to me, this song is all about sacrificing it sounds like everyone else fighting an evil joker. With line involving not crying, suffering, and being tied for the longest. Seeing how Joker is leader of the phantom thieves, this sounds like everyone is fighting Shadow Joker so he doesn’t have to suffer anymore.
During the entire Adam Kadmon fight I just couldn't help but think... why didn't Ren summon Satanael and just use Sinful Shell?
Davilos Coyote I think it’s cause they needed the support of all the people just like the first time he did it. First time he summoned him all the people believed in the phantom thieves but I guess not this time.
@@jonnyvoy4353 it would have been nice to have even summoned raoul to battle him.
Satanael only showed up cause the people dreamed of someone or something to defy what was essentially God to them, thus Satanael.
In Maruki's world, everyone is happy, thus have nothing to wish for, thus no Satanael.
Adam Kadmon was not a god. He was a man's cognition of what man could become. As a result, shooting him with a cognitive "embodiment of sin" wouldn't have the same effect as if you shot a god with it.
Besides, the people weren't against him. Nor did they need to be. You were.
And to add on to this whole thing, Adam Kadmon is supposed to be the first human that lived, or at least was thought to live. Adam Kadmon is actually the form he took before becoming Adam in the bible, meaning he was closer to god, more of a divine being rather than being a god.