THE HONEST TRUTH ABOUT "INDUSTRY PLANTS" & NEPO BABIES
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
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What is the truth about industry plants and nepo babies? I look at nepotism, supposed industry plants and nepo babies like Billie Eilish, Gayle, Taylor Swift, Lil Nas X, Panic At The Disco, Fall Out Boy, The Kid Laroi and more to find the truth about industry plants. Are industry plants real? Is every artist with a label, manager and booking agent a nepo baby plant?
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0:00 Intro
2:43 Billie Eilish
7:07 Gayle ("ABCDEFU")
8:28 Fall Out Boy & Panic At The Disco
11:39 Olivia Rodrigo ("Driver's License")
14:18 Battlecross, Metallica & The Kid Laroi
15:14 Taylor Swift
18:39 Babymetal 
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First
How can I reach out to Finn? I am a Reggie Watts/FKJ (loop artist) style musician as well as an MC (NOT a rapper, big difference xD) recording a dual album right now. I would LOVE Finn's advice or just to talk to him about it, I value his knowledge. Sorry for unwieldy, I do have Asperger's. 🙏🏻
you missed the whole part about kid laroi's mother being a talent manager!
Well I mean even a lot of '80s bands were the same way I mean these weren't just some poor kid from the block these were mostly people from the valley or had money or were among family who had money
It's not just about authenticity and deception it's also about manipulation and well when you're manipulating people into buying something you're essentially scamming them into buying something so even though it might be good music even if you're still buying good music you don't like to be scammed into buying good music like you can still be buying a completely functioning car but you don't want to be scammed into buying even a functioning car because probably you're not getting what you're purchasing or you're not getting fully what you told you were being sold so it's a little bit more than just a deception
C'mon man, if Taylor Swift's dad had $300k to invest in a record label, that definitely makes him rich.
Agreed. Give me a break.
Exactly! This guy's videos are disingenuous.
And?
@@ishmael_03 Taylor made Big Machine
@@soulfireonfire6423 ?
You nailed it. The problem people have is being lied to. If you're industry sponsored, that's fine. When you fake an origin story, now there's a problem.
Are you also talking about Avril Lavigne?
Yes you nailed it. It's the lies that are perpetuated. At least babymetal owned its origins.
@@RawDiva1999 Absofuckinglutely. And Lady GaGa. Though at least the latter has a good voice no matter how much I hate her at least there's that... Avril is just utter trash.
@@warrickterry4742 baby metal and k pop in general operate like this to begin with, everyone there knows the labels put together the groups, paying to train the talent that will eventually be their next big pop group.
you know the old saying
never ask an indie artist why their parent's names are blue on wikipedia
the lessons of billie eilish origin story is: connection is as important as talent. the way they depicted it is, talent alone is enough.
She has no talent tho
Connect is more important tbh. You need just enough talent to not flounder but hardly anything special
@@yoeyyoey8937 Yeah, you don't need exceptional talent to have an exceptional career in this game.
@@yoeyyoey8937 a plant to me would be someone like cassie from bad boy records it was obvious she was pushed due to her beauty and she was heavily autotuned.....and it was exposed on bet live when she had to sing live and it was bad(it was clearly sabotage) but the damage was done and she was ruined
and lindsay lohan can actually sing (she sang "jingle belle rock" acapella in "mean girls" ) and shes sang background in few songs....but she had connections her dad was a big talent exec
They had like 20k in studio equipment having to share rooms 😒
I remember the “Billie Eilish plant” happening. She kept popping up in different spaces that didn’t seem tied together but were unified in repeatedly bringing her up. Her music shows merit but it was clear someone was lifting her up.
Like when she hosted Coachella and literally said “I don’t know why I’m here” on stage 😂
Her parents are very wealthy high executives on one of the biggest music labels, cant remember which one. Her brother is a big music producer and she has all the capital and connections anyone could ask for. I mean her first album had the best music production I have ever heard. The people who worked on her albums were some great heads that no one would have had without the connections
@@I_Ace where are you getting your information from???
@I Ace you don't get to be 14 years old blowing up on a major label if you don't have serious backing as an industry plant. Full stop
Ya Lucifer. When he offered the world to Jesus , He didn't argue. All He had to do was worship him.
this is the kind of video an industry plant would make
Considering this channel has been around a while, I’d say he’s sorta a music and culture journalist of sorts.
Lol
Finn Mckentty, Industry Plant, *CONFIRMED*
This is the kind of plant an industry video would make
🤣🤣🤣
Reason it sucks: if people are jumping the line, we're not getting the best, we're just getting the most well connected.
@@marnie8007 these guys coudnt hide how big theyre parents were like the examples on the video. It takes connections but if youre already big you cant erase that and blow up again.
fortunately it's easier than ever to find good music. I think it just sucks for us that know people who just listen to what ever is pushed on them that we have to listen to the songs they will accept which is a low and painfully obnoxious bar.
@@marnie8007 Not all people who have connections will be able to capitalize on them, but must all people who make it famous had connections.
We don't require that all people with connections succeed, only that most people who succeed had connections.
If most people who succeed have connections then inevitably, we aren't seeing the true best of the best.
There is no "line" to jump..
Why do you think all music sucks now.
Everyone just assumes I suck. They don't bother to listen.
Babymetal, and by extension any Idol group, are bad examples of "industry plant." Typically, their audiences know that they were put together and are essentially products. Idol groups never try to hide the fact that they're put together. Industry plants, however, are painted as someone who rises up naturally and gains a fantasy through nothing but hard work and talent and miraculously get discovered by a label, when in reality, they're usually already signed and are pushed a false image of natural growth. That's the difference. People know that Idol groups are put together and manufactured and audiences know that fact, while Industry Plants are put together and manufactured but are given an image of being completely natural
This is so true. Japan and korea are very open about idol groups. It is a professional career that they need to apply for. They are heavily managed and trained to do what they need to do. In a sense, they are contractors. Unlike traditional bands and singers that have more control over their creative music, idols are placed in departments, and they perform what their agency ask them to do, like in regular jobs. (Yes, there are qualifications.) But that's for their agency to decide.
absolutely agree. It is so bizarre to compare since even culturally it's something completely different. The industry in Asia works in its own way and by extension, not at all like Western artists do. The appeal is basically seeing them training and put years of their life perfecting every single detail until they are ready for debut, that does not happen at all in western companies.
Babymetal is not metal at all…
@andreasalas7014 there was a time in late 90s/2000s that emphasised 'artist development' and edified it through reality TV, but yeah.
Why do some singers and actors feel the need to lie about their childhood and where they came from? That whole story about Billie and her brother growing up in a small house is a smack in the face to actual people who had it that hard or worse like the ones who had to sleep in cars or motels on the daily.
Because if they do they get crapped on
"Industry Plant" is just another word for nepotism. When half the battle is just getting your foot in the door, having friends in high places is how you cheat your way into the industry. It doesn't guarantee a long career, but it does guarantee a career.
It's not "cheating",it's "having a family". If she inherited a shoe store and kept making shoes she'd be applauded by you commies. If I'm an engineer,doctor,woodmaker,kook or soldier and my child continues in my footsteps it's not nepotism to help my child the best I can. That's what parents are for. Sorry you've never experienced that.
Nepotism is if you put your child somewhere at the the expence of someone better,at the public pay job without any skills or expertise or using your connections to cover for your child's criminal behaviour. Hunter Biden,Sam Bankman Fried,AOC's boyfriend/advisor,Nancy Pelosi's husband...?
Or Max Verstappen,Lewis Hamilton (both F1 drivers),Trump Junior?
Going to uni if your parents are educated? Sofia Coppola being a director? Good or bad? Should she've become a lumberjack?
Cough cough, Lana Del Rey! Cough cough.
@@Superabound2 Oh,.I won't take racist bait. 🥸
Its the same in most media and entertainment. Even many rappers didnt grow up in the hood and they went to college. So many female hollywood stars of past and present are married to producers and industry execs.
Most "musicians" these days cant play instruments or write music.
Well said. Basically nepotism to put it simply.
I remember Eilish being pushed hard almost daily on music forums before she blew up. The posts didn't receive positive feedback but kept happening, so it was a little suspicious. I don't really care if someone is a plant or not, but it is annoying when corporations invade spaces intended for organic discussion just to push a product. It makes the whole space less reliable. It's the same reason content creators have to disclose paid sponsorships.
the homeschool story seems like bullshit...
I never thought she was “that good” but I get music is a personal taste thing. From someone who’s completely apathetic about her it seems her level of celebrity does not match her looks and talent imho. Still good but not at Prince or Adele level.
She's completely talentless imo. Everything I've heard from her sounds the same and her banger "bad guy" is dollar store pop music. 20 years ago it may have made it on a Now! cd.
She got like 3 or 4 songs I like. Thing is there are tons of artists I have to dig really hard for that also do. So, the fact she’s in my face bothers me a little whereas if I had discovered her the way I typically would, I’d have no problem with her, and would probably go back to the work I thought was decent more often. As it is, there are way more talented artists that get a fraction of the attention.
And just to point out that I’m not merely bloviating, check out Susanne Sundfor, or Oklou. Similar to Eilish in certain respects but insanely better. Successful in their own rights but not huge stars.
@@ConstantBurningFire I live for obscure shit thanks. Sad when people with skills aren’t seen or heard. Dax Riggs is a recommendation from me. Stranger to reason (soul of a bear can) worth a listen, though u might have to hunt for a quality version. He does have one major hit, but under a band name.
Billie Eilish is in industry plant in the way that you mentioned, but also in the way that she actually looks like a plant.
ROASTED!!!!!
Most of my house plants exude more energy than her though
the problem with these stories is that them passing it off as "we were so poor we shared an almond for dinner every night" gives the impression of what reasonable expectations can be had for someone to reach their level of success. it gives rise to this false "boot-straps" argument of "oh you couldnt become famous because you had to go to school and had a job and rent to pay? well billie eilish and her brother shared an almond for dinner every night. You're just not working hard enough." its a lie. they had a support system, a house they owned and team of people to help them. the fact that they had help isnt wrong but lying about it is. its kind of like when the kardashians have plastic surgery and then try to tell you that all they did was work hard at the gym and try to sell you $300 work out leggings and a gym membership. just say you had plastic surgery. its FINE.
I think the thing with baby metal getting "a pass" is because they have never misrepresented thier formation and have been open and honest about it, while alot of plants will try and lie about being "organic"
That’s the case for idol groups from Asia. It’s open public knowledge that in the pop industry in South Korea & Japan that management & record labels are the ones that create the acts and push them like products. There is no humble origin story or fake narrative being pushed. So much to the point that people anticipate what the next group from these companies will be.
I mean, idol music + metal? It's very hard to not to guess it's the agency/record label who came up with that.
The problem with baby metal is they do tours with real metal bands and most of the audience doesn't listen to them, These are hardcore metal fans they don't want to sit and listen to them.
I mean... are they even a metal? otoboke beaver is way more metal than baby metal
Taylor didn't "grow up on a Christmas tree farm". Her family owned a tree farm, along with a few other properties. ;-)
Isn't that where she grew up though 🤔
when your family owns a property and lives there for your whole childhood, then you grow up there 😂 i think the problem is people make the assumption they farmed christmas trees to survive when the whole thing is really a rich people hobby
@@danvalentine9130 she also grew up in an asylum, noooot the most truthful of her lol
I think it’s not really about the artist being a “plant”. It’s about the lie. When people find out about Billie Eilish’s parents having connections that helped her music career, they feel like the artist is trying to sell a big fat lie. Baby metal has never lied about their origins.
Nobody likes to be lied to 🤷♀️
The funny part is, where's the lie? Did anyone ever specifically say their parents didn't have connections? Even if they did have connections, they obviously didn't have very good connections, considering their career seems to consist of "extra in crowd" type jobs.
I haven't looked into it past this video, but the video didn't actually hint at any untruth to the narrative of the 2 bedroom house with the bedroom studio, and nothing contradicted the "we just put it on soundcloud for our friends" narrative. If the parents emailed a link to a "connection", that doesn't even remotely change the narrative I'm the slightest.
@@adama7774 It’s a lie because you made it sound like they “made it” because of a given reason when it’s not true. It calls everything into question, even their claimed narrative stinks after this. For all we know they were given songs to record by a pro
@@yoeyyoey8937 except.... it really doesn't... at all
@@adama7774 it doesn’t for you because you want to believe the lie but that’s not on me. Think about it. Billy Eyelash has a horrible attitude and is non chalan about her success, as if she was entitled to it or is not her passion and something she worked hard for. They threw her bro under the bus because he wasn’t hipster and sexy and marketable or would play along with this, or he wasn’t necessary in the first place, he was just there to sell Billy’s story.
How do you know that the songs and even beats weren’t just given to them by a pro?
Maybe they did record in that room with tens of thousands of dollars of equipment that were given to them, but even if that’s true, the narrative is still a lie.
It’s like an athlete breaking records but they were on a ton of PEDs at the time, like yeah technically they did the thing but also they were allowed to cheat on a massive scale against other pros, so that kinda makes the whole thing a lie. We don’t know how good of an athlete they are we just know they took more drugs than everyone else and didn’t get caught.
@yoey yoey no, it doesn't, becauee it literally, objectively doesn't. There is literally no lie at all. Nothing has been contradicted, nothing has dodgy has happened. The only thing that happened is you invented an extra narrative in your own head, completely unprompted and completely without reason or rational, and then you found out the part that was completely and utterly invented by you wasn't actually true. Nothing more.
The difference is that the members and producers of Baby Metal were never dishonest about their origin, while many of the other artists or labels in your video played with the facts to push a narrative to make them more marketable. Also, yes most of us would leverage nepotism or whatever privilege we had, but it is important to disabuse people of the myth of the self made artist as it gives them unrealistic expectations of their chances or the realistic obstacles and process it takes to make it
WHen my old band was in the studio after we got our record deal another guy was recording there and asked how we got our deal. We told the story about how we were a small town band and played a bunch and wrote a ton of songs and gradually built a following which got the attention of some people that knew people and eventually got signed. He was like "Oh wow you did it the old fashioned way" He went on to tell us how his uncle or cousin or dad or something was an important person in the industry and got him his deal. This was our first experience with the whole "industry plant" concept and thought everyone did it like we did.
did he make it big?
What's the name of your band or some song titles? And who's that other guy?
I'm curious too who you all are and if any of you made it.
I know a Gas Service Engineer whom was pretty forgetful but his old man knew the Boss or Top Dog of CORGI ( the certificate of registered gas installers ) now called Gas Safe - whom was struck off for causing a fire . It’s the same as it ever was - it’s not what you know , it’s who you know 🙄 ( he got re-instated because of his old man’s’ friendship )
And those types will spend their entire professional lives gatekeeping the real hard working musicians from their industry and hiding the connections they know, 9 times outta ten. They deserve none of the success they're given.
Well, the difference with BABYMETAL is that they're not trying to hide it. They're entirely open about their process. Same with the Korean idol system. Kpop is an industry that builds their artists from the ground up. In the U.S., labels typically have scouts who go out to open mic nights at bars or talent shows looking for talent. In Korea, they scout for people with symmetrical facial features and then put them into an intense training system that will ultimately give them the tools to become stars. To be fair, there have been a lot of Kpop artists that have no artistic input in the music they make; their agencies would choose songs written by ghost writers and have them re-record these songs in their in-house studios, then have professional choreographers submit dances for the songs that they choose from and then teach to their idols. This trend has been slowly dying though, as in the last few years it has been popular to allow idols more and more artistic input. It started out as just letting them write lyrics for the songs, but has evolved into agencies requiring at least 1 member of the group to have production experience. A good example of this would be the group Stray Kids. They have 3 members who have production credits on every song they make. To what degree they help make the songs I'm not sure. I would imagine they have a lot of artistic input, but when it comes to harmony and engineering, their agencies likely have in-house producers with music theory degrees and professional music engineers who they work together with to make the end product.
I think the issue people have with "industry plants" is the dishonesty. People would have much less of a problem with these artists if they were just honest about their history and the way they became successful. Korea's idol system is so honest that they make reality tv elimination shows out of their training process, allowing the public to vote on the final lineup of the group.
Just be honest. It's that simple.
What's this "honest" you speak of? We don't have that here in Murica!
was going to comment something like this, the thing is quite a lot of mainstream music groups are put together by record labels and dont come up from the grass roots.
I think people only get upset when they try to present as a group that grafted from the bottom up writing their own songs, its like you are being manipulated into liking them because they are "just like you" rather than, daddy works for a big record label and got me this gig.
I do agree with the video in the sense that it does seem to get thrown more at female artists which is a shame.
I don't think the kpop industry is as honest as you seem to think. Votes has been rigged in the past. Not to mention that it is an industry standard to hide the exploration of their artists or how broken their artists are.
@@nairobie755 the thing about kpop is that there are a lot of new groups debuting each year and only the ones from big money are guaranteed to make it, but for most its a very hard work career that doesnt give back anything, for example years ago a group Crayon Pop became an international one hit wonder and even opened for Lady Gaga, but by their retirement they had only received a check once for less than $100. A lot of rigging happens, these year was no exception, a debuting group is suspected of getting awards due to their agency being owned by a huge company that also owns the streaming service that gave the awards, plus that agency has been found rigging in the past
I like that you talked about Stray Kids. I think they’re probably one of the few kpop groups that turned that “industry plant” label of kpop into its head. The 3 members started as a SoundCloud rappers & producers then proceeded to be part of Stray Kids, one member chose the people to be put in their group, and as of now All 8 of the members have a writing credit in some degree, all of them can now write lyrics, 3 of them still produces, and the leader who picked the members, are now moving into music arrangements, composing. It’s like instead of moving backwards where kpop used to be, they’re slowly turning into a group where their label is purely just for choreography, financing & marketing. Which i think is a very unique & new way in kpop music industry
The truth of the matter is, you won't find widespread success no matter how talented you are, unless you have previous industry connections. In that way, every popular band is an "industry plant"
The problem really is that for every plant that gets a push, an organic artist is ignored and gets to live their days out grinding for exposure or just admit they're really a pizza guy who can play music.
Also, it's creepy that the brother writes the love songs about his sister so she can sing them.
The whole thing is creepy and they probably suppress independent artists as much as possible to make room for plants
ABOUT his sister?!
Cant just drop that and leave!! Spill the tea!!
Guys, it's not as complicated as you think. Songwriters usually have a muse and unless I'm mistaken these two are homeschooled and BFFs. Who else does that particular songwriter have as a potential muse as a writing partner? I figured it out because of an interview with the producer on a later MJ album talking about picking a girl to spend time with, coming up with fuel for the lyrics. Kesha's brother is also listed as one of her songwriters on every track, too. Hollyweird got it's nickname honestly.
You got nada, dude.
BabyMetal is a "corporate manufactured idol entertainment act". It's cool they don't try to hide it. Best to be honest about it. If the fans like it, they will like it. Obviously... lot's of people do seem to like it. I don't have a problem with it, as long as everyone is honest about it.
Pop Idol culture is also completely different in Japan/Korea vs America. It’s like a whole thing over there to be what we call an “industry plant”. They even have special schools for it
KITSUNE!!! 🤘
Pretty much all items and K-pop bands are manufactured essentially I mean look people eat fast food junk food people eat all sorts of pre-made manufactured s*** but it's never as good as legitimate good old-fashioned fresh food or really handmade kind of crafts where it's like you can tell that this that there aren't too many of them out there and that they were tailored for you and that's the problem with a lot of these corporate manufactured bands and music is they are in a sense very like pop and like yeah a lot of people like them but they're never going to be like Joy division they're never going to be the band that was like that has a cult following because people really enjoyed their uniqueness at the same token I mean the the band will probably never be that rich but the point is at least you know they have their uniqueness that will pretty much be there for a very long time
It's very common in Japan. Nothing to be honest about, since it's obvious lmao
A lot of the popular jpop and kpop is manufactured but theyre at least transparent about it, which I appreciate that at the minimum. I fuckin LOVE babymetal
Basically every successful person in Hollywood has family in the industry.
If not... You have to prove your worth on the couch.
@@robbank8027 That's dark as hell but it's the truth.
@@robbank8027what you mean with couch?
@@based_circuit how is it dark?
I didn’t know anything about Eilish’s back ground… but if I was a fan and thought “she did it, i can too!!” But that’s not the case. I wanted to be an opera singer, I got pretty far but it was just too tiring. Having to chase down prior and work 2 jobs while going to school… I needed to be nicer to myself, so I changed majors and my path
You could make an opera about that.
Opera is a lot more complex than her plain generic derivative sound.
Prior to Big Machine deal she was the youngest singer to be offered a deal by Sony. But she left due to some developmental deals. She quotes, “I genuinely felt that I was running out of time. I wanted to capture these years of my life on an album while they still represented what I was going through."
But here's the thing. Babymetal has NEVER denied what they are. There no shady misdirection. They are an idol band, they have the manufactured narrative and they have always been completely up front about it n
facts, not sure why they're here with other artists that have tried to fool and probably are fooling a lot of listeners with their stories and who really writes their songs
You’re right. I think the concept of an idol band is still a relatively new/unfamiliar idea to Western audiences (or at least in the punk/metal/hardcore etc scenes where there’s more of an emphasis on musical acts being “authentic”)
@@Laura.Luminary idol bands originated in the US.
And they're bloody good.
But they're still industry plants. They were manufactured, didn't even like the music. Sure they're honest but that doesn't change what they are.
My problem with the Billie Eilish story is not that it wasn't true, because it was. They just left some very important details out of the story. They made it seem like anyone could do what they did. While it is possible, it is not very likely that someone could accomplish what they did while being truly on their own. I played music for over a decade. I was good enough to headline a few small shows, but they started with more support than I ever had. While they didn't lie about anything, they did misrepresent the facts.
Excatly. The days of rags to riches, getting noticed by the big people is extremely rare and unheard of nowadays. The best thing about the internet is you can put your stuff out there and have it heard by people, but the fact of the matter is that doesn't at all mean you're going to get noticed by the big names
Or if you do it's gonna take many years, not within months while you're a teenager like with Billie
Because if Luciferian cult's smell an opportunity, they are all over the sluts for success like flies on shit
So true , I have played with incredibly good musicians, better than the ones I now pay to see
it does leave a bitter taste, no one denies their talent tho.
Yep but at the same time, most young "artists" these days are not very talented. They might be able to sing OK, but they cant write music, or play instruments.
In the 1960's and 1970's most famous musicians worked for years in clubs honing their craft, before they got a record deal. Even then, the fame came after 3 or 4 albums.
Kids these days expect to be plucked out of obscurity at 18 and be famous.
I love and respect BABYMETAL for never hiding what they were, like most idols don't. Atarashii Gakko was also put together but they are actually good.
The difference between baby metal ladies and others is that they freely and honestly admit their situation, and I might add, without being embarrassed or without pretense.
The issue with Billie's story in particular is it completely detracts from her authenticity as this rags to riches story. It's VERY obvious that she had a vocal coach and her brother was classically trained. And in LA, those lessons were probably very expensive. And who knows...sounds like their parents were trying to live vicariously through them.
How is it obvious she was coached. I've only heard that one single by her but no one would coach her to sing like that.
@@maxmakman2682 eg tuition for national choir in la is $219 per month. That's like a car payment to be able to go to work.
I'm from UK rather than US, but my father works within A&R though, so I'll give my 2 cents. . How it works over here is that managers watch a handful of special schools that teach performance/acting/music. Once they leave the mangers will approach some of the students. The manager works with the artist for around 2 years to craft their music/image/identity. The managers then shop them around the labels. The artist then will often release off their own label, which is in fact a sub label of the major unknown to the public. It appears that it's their own label, but in fact has exactly the same distribution and marketing as others on the label. If the label likes you then they'll set up interviews with the best places to be seen for your genre. This is the way things are so you shouldn't be to bitter, however artists stating they want to inspire people to do music, but not actually giving people the steps to get through the system I've always felt is very shady. They should be saying go to these schools (or the best equivalent, as they can cost a shed load of money each year) and also find the appropriate mentors. You getting taught music from the best in the world vs you picking up a guitar and learning yourself are two totally different things (You'll have to live to 200 to figure it out for yourself ha ha). Their 'inspiring' comments of just 'work hard' are not only not deceptive, but probably pushing a delusional state and thus bringing pain/disappointment to the kids that buy into this. Billie Ellish saying she made an album in her bedroom, while you can see $200k of gear being used is ridiculous lol. Why would someone have all that equipment in her bedroom, but her parents can't afford a room. They could buy another house with that money lol. I would imagine the reason they don't tell people the truth is because it would smash the narrative that they are special and have natural talent. They generally are talented don't get me wrong, but in the sense they've had the best teachers, not just getting a cheap guitar and figuring things out for themselves. The problem with this system I always feel is that say the amount of people going through this system is really small. So we're only hearing music from these select parts of society (those with enough money to get into these schools and pay for particular teachers). It's a shame because the other parts of society are talented as well and have a different style. It would be cool if we could hear a selection of music from all backgrounds :)
I was looking to see if someone else picked up Billie’s equipment. How can a truly poor person afford that equipment? 🙏
I can't stand how prevalent this is in the rock and metal industry specifically. If it's good then that's all that should matter
I think the reason people look down on artists like Swift or Eilish is due to the fact that they did not have to face the same hardships that an average person would. They had a team of people helping them write songs, or telling them how to look or how to act, while most people have to figure it out on their own, or get lucky.
There is no lucky. Marketing takes a lot of money.
The reason is ...... Their shit 🍀🇬🇧👍
@@koont666 This one of those instances where using the correct form of "their/they're/there" makes all the difference
@@boejudden9011 oohhh sorry another hic up Thank goodness for the for people like you ,I'm so lucky ,still shit 🍀🇬🇧👍
This is why Finn always responds to my realistic corrections with the 17yo "cool kid" response, "Are you ok?" or "Who hurt you?" You're 100% correct @Jesterr... The reason is that some bands actually have to work, WITHOUT well-off parents and or Disney backing them. Some bands are amazing and never get signed. The correct understanding is that 90% of the time, Disney's "love" for kids and daddy paying a label will have a better chance than anything, not luck or talent. I always notice these videos where the content creator says, "I'm not saying it's true, but..." Let's live in reality and be honest. It is what it is, a spade is a spade. I'm sure there's 1,000 girls from L.A. that can sing and write better than Billie, have style too, but.... No money for a $4,000 production setup or room for it.
My problem has always been lying to fans. Who cares if parents bought ur way into music. I just don’t like liars
It matters, millions of talented musicians out there that brings 99% of the Corporate products to shame, who have studied and dedicated large parts of their life to Music theory, who does interesting and nuanced mixes of modes, and boom Bieber sings Baby baby baby, and when people checks him out, he is literally not special in any way.
Corporations push a false authentic image, people think: if they wasn't the best of the best, they wouldn't have been there which is a deception.
Took me a while to subscribe. This is my 4th video from you that I liked and gained some insight about music. Thanks for the information 👍🏽
I'm more worried about the message the industry spread through their nepotist creations than the conduits themselves. Thank you for your insight.
My gripe with stories like Billie Eilish or Taylor Swift isn't that their music is worth any less by being brought into existence through connections.
The issue is, that in a world where the American Dream has completely corroded, the entertainment industry was often seen as one of the last industries, where you could make it through talent and grit. But the more stories like these arise, the more the light of this bastion of hope (and sometimes the ticket out of poverty) fades.
It's what you said about Taylor Swift at the end: So many talented musicians don't make it. And even with the talent of Taylor and Billie, they probs wouldn't have succeeded without the outside help and they'd be just more of the unsuccessful ones. Seeing them succeed always leaves the question: Would they still have been big? It's more fuel to the fire of the growing percentage of people that are completely losing hope for any kind of fairness. It's a very bad message to people in these times of division between rich and poor and it furthers the divide.
My brother, for example, is a great and passionate drummer. He never had the opportunity to show it after highschool, as he had to work and pay rent.
Same with me. I'm considered by a lot of people to be one of the best metal singers in my region. But my parents didn't give two shits about a career in music and rent/food/gas ain't gonna pay for themselves.
And to be completely honest: There's also some degree of envy and bitterness. I look at these artists and think "That could be me, if my parents spent a couple thousand on my music career instead of kicking me out after highschool to take care of myself."
The music industry was always the music industry. The organic cases are very few and far between and we've probably never heard the best anything because they never got a deal, recorded or because they never cared to. You grow up, realize its mostly bs and develop some perspective to go along with all that nostalgia and resentment. If you've ever wanted music to be your job, you have to be a plant. Most don't know it but it's pretty naive to believe its possible for millions of people to be exposed to and love your music for organic reasons. I'm being a bit bleak but its closer to the truth than any optimistic view.
@@andrewcook1246 Not at the start it really started in the 80s when the big ones started to buy out smaller music industry companies and then really went hard down in a normal person getting ahead in the music game in the late 90s and early 2000s when sony and universal brought out everything.
💯💯💯👏👏👏👏👏I started to get suspicious when it seemed like EVERY. SINGLE. CELEBRITY. was _always_ related to _someone_ who was either already famous, or of some historical significance. They pick a couple "rags to riches" (think Beyonce) to throw us off and keep us hoping that if we could just carry a tune or dribble a ball good enough... That way we keep working ourselves to death while they enjoy everything the world has to offer.
I've been in that position as an artist that's done everything we needed to do, got the record deal, made the record, did the tours and for whatever reason the magic God of music careers that has the button that decides "go" or "no"... says Go to another band. ... that we end up opening for on tour, outselling on merch and blowing off the stage every night. bands that were no better or more experienced that us got the GO. got the major radio push, got the video in rotation on MTV got the articles in magazines. All you can wonder is who did they know? . Who's their uncle at KROQ? What huge band is their cousin in? it was very frustrating to watch mediocre bands get handed the keys to the castle and then disappear because they just weren't that great. I'm not saying my band would have blown up but we never got the chance. Not that it wss a contest but we arguably did better on tour than a lot of these bands that got the push. Bands we had to open for. am I bitter? . yes. am I angry? yes.
@@Kirkshelton Well said, but try not to be bitter and angry. Instead, maybe we were saved from a worse fate. 🤔
There are so many talented people you have never heard of who don't have industry support. Support local music and musicians.
Yes!!!
Do me a favor: RUclips James Durbin cover Journey "seperate ways", there is NO famous current male vocalist that can sing like this unknown dude
@@kevinwalsh4652 There are extraordinary undiscovered singers everywhere, but there is no legacy in covers. It’s easier to copy and supersede what someone else has already done. A true artist creates something new.
@@dkaob8351 yeah but most bars and places are not interested about new material.
@@dkaob8351 yeah but how do you find those local bands to support?
A level headed response as usual, and always quite refreshing to hear. My only problem is that I feel like I can't have an original thought on any of the subjects you cover that I come across.
It's a testament to Babymetal's appeal that they've kept going through the gimmick period and grown into a great band without pretense for how the came about. A decade later and they've gotten a lot of respect.
"Industry Plant" has a covert aspect to it, ie the advantages they had are hidden to give them "street cred", so I don't think the term applies to Babymetal because they are totally open about being a manufactured band. The members were chosen by their Amuse producer, Kei Kobayashi, from members of the idol group Sakura Gakuin and had minimal input into the songs and look. They are performers and there's no attempt for them to be seen as more. The real life back story of Babymetal members is also never used by Amuse to promote the band; there is no pretense at authenticity at all. In fact BM's producer has created a completely fake lore for Babymetal that replaces any detail about the real life of the performers, they have no public social media accounts and are rarely photographed out of costume. Also I don't think Babymetal fans call out other artists as "Industry Plants" more than any other people.
Just cause they're open about it doesn't mean they aren't still a plant
@@lightningmonky7674 BM are totally manufactured by Amuse, if that's the only criterion of a "plant" then, yes, BM are a industry plant. But "plant" implies some dishonest attempt to make people draw a false conclusion which was part of the video's thesis so I don't think the term applies to BM - precisely because the are open about it.
@@lightningmonky7674 maybe, but there is still a very big difference in someone telling you the truth and someone trying to trick you!
We need a new term for bands like Babymetal, who are loud and proud of their origin, how about Industry Tree?😁
Babymetal were never even expected to be a big success. They were just meant to be side project of Sakura Gakuin for the three years Suzuka was going to be there for. The fact that they blew up and ended up outlasting Sakura Gakuin was good fortune, not some nefarious focus group driven marketing strategy.
There's nothing at all wrong with artists being "casted" for a music career, or being backed an pushed because they have the right image, or given a helping hand by their connections. That's always happened. The bigger issue is that the way the industry is now, it's incredibly difficult for anyone not in those categories to be successful. Record companies want low risk, high return artists, and the mainstream media won't give any exposure to artists who aren't also in those categories. People can talk all they want about how easy it is to find music if you look, but the overwhelming majority don't look, because they aren't aware there's anything out there to look for.
I haven't commented much on your channel and check in from time to time. This is a brilliant idea for a video and was executed very well. Very interesting points. Well done buddy.
I really appreciate your objective, unbiased analyses. Keep the videos coming!!!
Ultimately I think people get upset when a band or artist pretends to be from a grassroots hardworking DYI background (with the "Fight the power that be!" kind of attitude) and it turns out they were bought into the industry with family money. Babymetal aren't industry plants in the same way Nsync wasn't, pop boybands/girlsbands are pure industry creations and we know it from the start. There is nothing deceitful going on because they are honest from their inception. Babymetal is a gimmick, three adorable J Pop idols playing with a heavy metal band. Its fun and not all that deep, but when Billie Eilish (who I think is indeed very talented) pretends the be the female Kurt Cobain it gets a bit annoying.
I know....the real female kurdt cobain was annoying enough🥴
How so?Dour ,cynical and a suicidal junkie?
Dave Grohl was the one who called Eilish the Kurt Cobain of her generation, she is not pretending to be anything.
@@more5600 she's pretending to be an artist
@@kamj6607 Art is subjective.
Well, it's like you said. It's about authenticity. Baby Metal never even tried to pretend like they were poor kids making music in their bedroom, it was straight up front that they were created by a company. The same can be said for nearly every K-Pop artist. They audition for companies, and fans know it and are okay with it. The thing you are missing here is artists like Billy Eilish, and Taylor Swift are literally force fed to consumers, and specifically young children who do not really know much about music and do not have the means or knowledge to search out independent artists. Growing up in the 80s my friends and I would share tapes with each other. This exposed us to music on a more individual level. Not only are there industry plants on major labels, I'll go so far as to say that 100% of them are industry plants if they are being promoted by any major corporation or label. On the internet, those who scream the loudest get the attention.
And these kids are performing since their age are just single digit. They grind their way through auditions and screenings since childhood. There is a saying that ''Success occurs when opportunity meets preparation. And these girls and the backing band are centainly prepared.
As a fellow musician myself, I find this really interesting. I see, now, where I may have had some distinct experiences growing up where my parents cultivated an environment specifically for my growth as a musician. This was a profound personal experience for me…thank you man.
Loving all your videos so interesting and entertaining.
I saw Panic at the Disco when they had just gotten signed and the album wasn't even out yet, and they were horrible live. I remember being very confused at the time, until someone told me they got signed without ever playing a live gig.
Panic has been a wild ride. I also remember seeing them right after they launched and them sounding absolutely terrible live. I remember thinking Brendon had a terrible voice and writing them off, and then years later hearing him at a festival and him sound great. Now the internet tells me that he's busted his voice and is sounding like trash again, so I guess we've come full circle.
@@inallthechaos2774 how did he apparently bust his voice?
apparently the story goes that PATD were sending Pete Wentz their demos through LiveJournal (or something), he then flew out to Las Vegas to watch them practice in their practice space & after that just signed them. I definitely had the exact same demos of the songs Pete heard because i got them off Limewire & i could see why he was impressed by these 4 teenagers being able to make these songs DIY but they had absolutely no experience playing live at all or how to put on a show or even BE a band but when you've got Pete Wentz from Fall Out Boy backing you with all his resources & money (this was around the time from under the cork tree was everywhere & FOB were beyond popular) he knew he certainly found a few lads he could mold into a global band & generate money & it totally worked.
@@enid9911 His latest album was recorded direct to tape all in 1 take and doesn't have any post voice editing done to it so the flaws in his voice are heard more. So some people have said he busted his voice when he voice didn't change (his live shows from this year sound just like they did 5 years ago) it just didn't have much editing done to it.
@@notabelas3987 thanks but why would he tape it in 1 take?
I like you take on this subject Finn. I know when I scrutinize bands/artists, I try to find out if they write their own music/lyrics. Industry plant or not, if you can play your instrument or write your own songs or create your own music, that carry's more weight for me than how you got your record deal.
Im from LA and know many people with “connections”. Also almost anyone with or without talent can get an agent. There are TONS of people being backed up by money or connections. That doesn’t mean they’ll be successful or have an entire industrial machine back them up. Billie and Finneas happened to have talent and then the industry took notice and backed them up.
No it does mean that, not all but there r uncountable people that made careers without talent
There’s lots of very talented kids out there, connections are everything.
It's not what ya know, it's who ya know!
I dont believe thats the case anymore with the internet. Ofc it is easier with a whole team backing u but it is a lot easier to get noticed now then it was back then. You just have to learn how to market urself
@@ernestocamarena3545your acceptance of the comodifacation of art says a lot.
Babymetal is a terrible example of an industry plant, because the term hinges on the idea of deception.
They are an idol group that was from day one presented as an idol group. Nobody ever thought otherwise at any point, because the J-pop industry is less obsessed with the illusion of authenticity than the western pop industry. And the three idols that were hired to do vocals were hired to be out in front of an actual metal band lead by a guy who did work hard for a long time to convince a label to let him run with the concept. And when the concept proved it could work, it was held together long past the usual longevity of the "use once and destroy" idol groups in that industry by operating closer to a band dynamic than the usual idol group, in part because the idols involved took the job seriously and did actually get interested in metal.
I agree. A perfect example of an Industry Plant is Vanilla Ice. Babymetal isn't trying to fool anyone. Ice was. His "background" was completely manufactured and a lie and by the time everyone figured it out the label made millions, dumped him, shrugged and moved on.
Exactly. They were a gimmick group that blew up because there were talented musicians and producers behind the music and the idols really embraced this weird new role. I think he assumes idol groups are just automatically successful but that is so not true. Idols fail all the time, we just don't see and hear about the ones that failed.
You put it all perfectly.
You need to think about how they made 12 year old girls travel the world, for a decade contract, and work themselves to the bone so their managers and labels could profit.
@@kamw4010 Considering minors can't sign contracts, it is more their parents are colluding with the labels to do this. Also, this implies that the child (or, more accurately, the kid's parents) gets nothing out of it. They are doing it for free? They get no publicity out of it? I don't think so. They had the choice to say "No".
Babymetal is a totally different story, not sure why you mix them with people who try to sell a different story than the actual one is, they never did that. And I also think there is no issue with rich people with connections to make music, as long as they are sincere about it, the problem is we don't really know how much of what they do is real, because if they already start lying who knows if they really write their own music?
Also, it is definitely unfair for other artists when these people keep appearing everywhere because their connections and money bought the place for advertising that could be dedicated to other artists as well to give listeners more options.
Everyone with some interest in music knows who Billie Eilish or Taylor Swift are because as soon as you open any media app to listen to music you'll see their faces there, even without knowing a single song by them you will probably know who they are, while for other more talented artists you need to do a lot of research and many of them you still will never find.
So, for me there is two problems with these kind of cases, first the lack of sincerity, and second, the amount of place they steal from the media for other artists who deserve it at least as much as they do. Real talent should be the preference regardless of where the artists come from or how poor or rich they are, but that would only happen if the music industry had real interest in music, but we all know it's all about money.
Really well put, thanks for a very balanced perspective on this. I agree, regardless of any bureaucracy, politics, secret funding, false narratives, etc. the true metric of long term success in the music industry will always be is the music good. Sure, there will be some subpar music that comes and goes because of its fortunate financial positioning, and there will be successful artists and genres that may not fit everyone's taste, but great songs and great productions tend to prevail.
An issue I have with artists claiming they uploaded something to the internet and suddenly shot to success is that it’s just basically irresponsible. It sends the message to all the young hopefuls out there that that’s all you have to do to achieve success.
There’s been a few stories like this over the years. In all cases there’s been a lot of other factors in their success. The Arctic Monkeys for example had money invested in them and were gigging extensively, contrary to the narrative that they were primarily just file sharing. In the case of Sandi Thom, her claim that she’d made it by doing webcam gigs on RUclips was just a flat out lie. She never did that.
So I don’t begrudge Billie Eillish her success, but I do wish she and her people would be honest about how it was achieved, if only for the sake of the impressionable youngsters who may be hoping to follow in her footsteps.
I don't think Billie or her people are lying about though. I think it's always been known to her fans that her parents were in the industry, but not super successful. Also at least from my understanding, Arctic Monkeys went viral because they were gigging so much and already had fans that uploaded their stuff because they didn't have social media themselves. That's always been the narrative that i've heard.
I completely understand what you are saying, but I wouldn't call Billie's story irresponsible. It could have been meant as motivating.. Put yourself out there. Take a chance. You never know who might be paying attention at what time. Seeing Billie's rise being mainly attributed to her parent's connections could be discouraging to someone without these connections but who is already an amazing artist and could have an amazing career - which would be a shame for the artist and all those whom would and could have enjoyed the artist's product.
I wish she wasn't a Misandrist
So true.
@@OneAndZer0 ...yikes. pathetic response
I think being an industry plant isn't bad as long as the artists don't deny, hide, or fake it, their merits would justify their success otherwise. I think for me in this video Gayle has the most offense here
I can't think of one artist who fits this bill who has ever admitted to this being the case. So your argument doesn't really hold water, because all industry plants try and fly under the guise of "self-made artists" or whatever.
@@thejamnasium6447 Yeah I mean his argument is reasonable it just doesn't work if you still call it an industry plant because it's sort of by definition deceptive if it's a plant. But it's true that Gayle is way worse than for example Taylor Swift who I don't think can be called an industry plant just a lucky kid. Gayle had a record label that deceived people to pretend she was better than she was... Taylor had supportive parents. I don't think "but she had good parents!!!" is really the same argument nor is it a healthy position to maintain. 300 grand is a lot but that was a huge risk that many parents wouldn't have taken even if they had the money. That was his retirement that he put down to buy a business hoping it would work out just because he could tell how dedicated she was. Her dad made great decisions his whole life that benefited his kids that's just not the same as her being a plant with a marketing team that is straight up lying to people's faces. Having supportive and helpful parents is a good thing and will always give a kid a leg up no matter what the industry. So to act like they're all the same is crazy
Why care what story they give you if the music is good...which is exactly what Finn is saying, it should all be about the music and nothing but the music!
Jpop and Kpop idols (Cpop as well) don't hide they're an industry plant so they aren't really as hated as unlike the Western counterparts where they mostly fake their "rags to riches"
gush, usually I bail on videos like this when somebody says their opinions. But those are really good points. And very cohesive coverage. I would like to add something not too obvious and very speculative. Sometimes I think than artists who were nurtured by their wealthy or well-connected parents have this lite-weighted aura that is mesmerizing for most of the people. Even from the creative standpoint it's hard to concentrate on your ideas when you have to pay the rent since you're a teen.
Someone is always helping someone reach success; none can do it themselves unless insanely talented
Here's a bit of useless information: I live in the area Taylor Swift grew up in before she moved and got famous, I drive past her old house 2-3 times a week and it was just sold for over 3 million dollars.
I have more useless t swift info. One of my teachers went to high school with her. Said she was really nice, maybe a bit quiet. Wasn’t what I expected, I thought I would hear about her ego or how she always said she would be famous. People were kinda shocked when she just left school and starting music ig
@@T3RD5ify when you are making tones of money and have lots of attention, you have to take control of your time which seems like ego to some people
To be fair, they probably marketed the house as “Taylor Swift’s childhood home” so you know DAMN well that’s gonna sell
Wait what?...... Billie's parents had a two bedroom place and they slept on a futon in the living room so billie and finneas didn't have to share a room.. But they had a studio in the spare room?? 🙄 🤔🤔🤔
It's pretty clear that he or she slept in the bed that was in the studio room.
Their parents were also people who had confections due to their industry
@@snoozyq9576 dude I love confections! :)
@@snoozyq9576 confections in the industry? Sounds like a half-baked idea.
Her parents had much more than that… where did you hear that?
The fact that babymetal is manufactured is the most impressive thing about the band. It takes a genius to come up with an idea like this and to execute it so flawlessly.
The Runaways
This dude is a complete schill for the industry.
And most of this music besides Fall out boy and panic at the Disco is garbage anyway
It seems that way
If not a complete schill at minimum schill adjacent
To me an Industry Plant is Brittany Spears, Christina Aguilera, The Monkees (I mention because it was a band by Industry audition), Justin Timberlake (N-Sync), JoJo Sewa, Mylie Cyruss, Ariana Grande etc. Mostly a part of the Disney/Nickelodeon music factories.
What's funny many of these people never denied being industry plants.
The Eilish story on how they blew up is ridiculous. Name one artist that goes viral simply by uploading a song to a music platform.
Bieber
@@sonyaclarke7586 yes, but Bieber is an exception. Something like him only happens once a decade. And, these days there's a bunch of talented kids who can sing and film themselves doing it. the thing about Bieber is that he came out when social media was really taking off.
Lil Nas X kinds did with Old Town Road
Post Malone with white Iverson
Tame impala blew up on myspace, Although he had multiple songs on there and his father was a musician (but wasn't a professional touring one.)
I'll say I know in my musical snob subgroup of friends baby metal isn't bagged on for being a plant specifically because it's so blatant and they aren't pretending to be anything else. Like there needs to be some level of trickery going on to qualify as shenanigans.
I've always thought Taylor Swift's strength was really in her songwriting ability. When she first started out she really wasn't that great of a singer ( she's definitely better now) so I've always wondered if maybe if her dad hadn't helped her out so much she might actually have become a successful songwriter more so than an actual artist.
Doubt it she sounds okay but she sounds no different than most generic artist you hear on the radio
taylor swift doesn't write her own songs come on
If her dad wouldn't have paid for her singing career, he would have gotten her a middle-management position at a financial institution
This video touches on a subject often ignored. great stuff.
Every word of this is true. They are not self-made. The people who get to the top do so because they can afford to chase their dreams because they have rich parents to fund those dreams.
All kids depend on their parents or relatives to launch their adult lives and careers… whether it’s to graduate college without debt, become a sports star, movie star, business powerhouse or music star. Yes, a small number do it on their own but they are the minority.
I don't have a problem with the asian idol industry because they are open about. It makes a huge difference. My problem is ocidental industry plants creating a narrative to appear authentic and "" artisty"". I remember watching a kpop group being interviewed by a ocidental talk show, and, when being asked about their inspirations for the new single, they came open about it saying it's their agency producers who are in charge of that, and hearing they say that hit really fine
Yep, that's why groups like BTS in kpop are almost nonexistent, cause ask any bts member on any part of their music and you can get and hour monologue on music, lyrics, production etc. That's why I only love bts from kpop/idol industry🤷
@@AlexaOleksa but they do it since the beginning or they evolved as artists throughout their career?
I bet at first they had no say in the music process, but as they keep the success and keep evolving personally it was a matter of time to be more close with the production process.
@@axellyann5085 they had cause one guy went and auditionned as a producer. Then they told him that he will mot dance in the group or not too much😭
There are other groups who have the freedom to write or choreograph. Some have a say in the artistic direction as well
@Altana acting like bts is the only group that does that seems pretty far fetched, there's many groups who at least have a say in what they put out, e.g. seventeen, I believe they also have a hand in choreographing their routines and Stray kids where some of the members produce/write the groups' songs. (G)I-dle's Soyeon and Minnie also write and produce their groups' songs, so these groups definitely exist in Kpop and are nowhere near 'nonexistent', I'm not saying you're wrong for only liking BTS, I just feel it's a bit unfair to say that when group members have been participating in their own music, especially since some were doing so before BTS existed
@@randomperson3857 bigbang do, block b did, Ateez do, woozi does, TxT too
The industry plant issue hides another more serious issue which is the music industry tends to be very corrupt and mafia like in their control of popular music in general and if your act starts getting popular outside their controlled system the mainstream often goes out of their way to sabotage your act and shut you down. AC/DC's first manager Michael Browning was big in Melbourne music scene in the mid to late 70s and he admitted in his book "Dog eat Dog" that he'd go out of his way to sabotage and shut down independent bands and smaller promoters in his town. As a performer that happened to me but the biggest example I saw locally is a band I was good friends with is a very talented early 2000s teen indie metal band called Ungkas. They were a wildly popular live act, toured Australia several times, sold 5000 copies of their independently released debut EP. Once they began to organically "blow up" they suddenly hit a series of "unfortunate events". Wolfmother was starting to get big at the time and Ungkas was set to open a series of shows with them interstate but Ungkas got kicked off the bill after 1 show. They'd do sound checks and everything was great and they'd come on to play and their guitars would be wildly out of tune and amp setting messed with. They decided to headline their own shows locally and then the biggest music hire company in town refused to hire them PAs & gear. The manager of the company literally told them he'd been contacted by the big national promoters and told that if he hired gear to Ungkas they'd quit using his company's services. I could go on but this is the hidden dirty side of the narcissistic mainstream that really shits me to this day.
Bro I gotta check put your friends’ band, thanks for the comment
To me, an industry plant is when a label grabs a person with the right look and average talent, provides songs, training and grooms their image to launch them into stardom. Kind of how the Hollywood system worked with actors back in the day. These are people that without all of the support would not even have been in the industry, period.
Harry Styles springs to mind.
Drake is the definition of industry plant. His uncle was the progenitor of slap bass and his dad was also in music
I gotta say K-pop takes the cake for the industry plant concept, in a unique way where you actually feel bad for the "artists" because of how they are exploited by the business. Still, the quality of the product is impressive, kind of like apple products - don't think about how it was produced and you'll enjoy it more.
I don’t understand why more people don’t realize this. Dude is at the top but he’s corny af. He also got his foot in the door at a young age and he’s got a great pr team.
Not to mention he says he started from the bottom but lived in a mansion his whole life and tries to make it sound bad saying they only had the first floor.. And he was a child actor in a popular show into his late teens so him acting like he went through any struggle is laughable
@rhetttr0 I don't really get that. Everyone knows K-pop acts never come about naturally. No one's thinking these cheesy girl/boy bands met at school and started writing songs. They're very obviously made and marketed by companies. There's no lie about a natural come up.
@@jonathanlemon544 started from Degrassi
I love how everybody talks about how Billie Eilish was “bedroom produced”. Yeah, when you’re literally only using virtual instruments you can produce even in a tent. They didn’t record acoustic instruments or loud vocals in a non-treated room.
Then, afterwards it was still mixed and mastered (from her first EP) by huge industry names, that are far away from being a bedroom-engineer.
So, the problem with this is the bullshit. Say, “we did wrote at home, because we didn’t need to go to a studio facility, and then got our music sounding great thanks to great investments and involvement of very big people” instead of “we’re bedroom produced and our awesome sounding record was just made in a bedroom”.
There’s nothing wrong with being produced and sold and marketed like any product, what I see as a problem is the need to sell it as something that it is not.
That’s why Babymetal is listened by the same people that would hate the US industry plants. Because they always say it. They are open about it and realize it is a product and there’s nothing wrong with it.
Is like when you get products that are sold as BIO or homegrown, etc.. and they aren’t in reality. I don’t care about eating some fast food, just don’t try to tel me it is 100% natural or whatsoever…
Problem is not with the music industry, is with the whole American marketing system. Full of small prints and asterisks and big lies written in huge letters.
Nailed it.
You should have also known with bad guy, billi didn't write that, she was a teenager taking about bdsm and some Kinky stuff, yet no one ever questioned if she actually wrote such lyrics.
“Yeah, my industry parents paid for ALL MY EQUIPMENT … but it was all in my bedroom. 🤣🤣🖕🏼
@@lando9flo her parents weren t rich and they weren t that successful. They played a few roles, but they weren t famous. her parents weren t even able to afford horse riding classes until she got her first pay check.
@@gilbertoflores7397 where exactly did u find that information? she and her brother wrote everything. only 2 songs were written only by finnes. u can check her documentary out to see the progress in making the album. ruclips.net/video/kpx2-EMfdbg/видео.html
This was a really great topic to discuss.
I'd love some access to marketing campaign budgets to see how each level of band operates.
Fact is you need a certain amount of money to get any business off the ground.
Social media algorithms used to be organic and now its predominatly paid for advertising to even get posts to your existing audience.
Its like social media is the new pay to play radio set up. Then theres negotiations to get on spotify playlists etc.
Sure you can get a band going at local level for a couple hundred quid to play a few shows.
But anything above that? Nah.
The days of organic myspace reach, and people turning up to gigs to check people they've never heard before out are basically gone.
And thats going to have a knock on affect on organic growing artists.
I think theres this "oh we recorded in our bedroom" type thing going around at the moment as established bands have started to do it, and the tech has gotta better so you can demo and prodice grear things at home, but what they dont tell you is how much the VSTs, pro interfaces, years of mixing there demos etc, the veteran producer guiding the songs.
The fact is you still need a pro level engineer to mix it if you want it in the pro-sphere production wise. And that in itself might be a few grand before youve even made a video...
Gone are the days of advances from labels simply because the music itself doesnt bring in the revenue.
It honestly makes sense the industry is still doing "plants".
The industry model is going yo have to change drastically if its still going to be viable in 50 years.
I think the whole idea of industry plants is a bigger issue now because back in the 90s and 00s you still had artists who made it big because of their talent and effort, even with a major label they were the ones calling the shots and if it didn’t work the label wouldn’t take the fall for them and plug them into every radio ever. Whereas nowadays (or even the 80s as it has been a problem before) any artist can put out a horrendous album or go viral on a social media platform in all the wrong ways, but with a pretty face and a story that can be manipulated they can sidetrack everything with money. And you see that with a lot of the modern pop examples listed here, money promotes more money which is not a viable career option for kids who are looking to start out from rock bottom, again it’s just more prevalent now because a couple of decades ago we had a good mix of acts, authentic or otherwise.
Anyways really fascinating video to look into.
I think there is a huge difference in “my parents are rich, so basically I am too” and someone’s parents worked hard and made connections, passed it on, it helps you, and you realize it and appreciate it, if that makes sense.
You're spot on this, since the beginning I picked up that people in the west want "authenticity" from their artists but they don't care about all the manufactured bands coming from Korea or Japan where being a musician-product is not only accepted but expected.
I will say that Taylor Swift has certainly improved over the years, she went to my high school before she got big. She played in the talent show and honestly were voice was not good back then.
Her parents could afford the best coaches and song writers.
@@powbobs and legal advice. Plus the financial buffer to be able to wait for a good contract.
One word: relatability. Which, in marketing terms, means a lot to consumers.
When people are sold the idea that their favorite band/artist is a cute, talented, underdog that "made it", it's only natural that there's a pushback once it's known that they were heavily privileged all along.
These people are not "haters", they're allowed to call the industry out if they feel what they've consumed isn't "authentic".
I remember being a teenager and talking mad shit about artists that didn't write their own songs. these days I don't care and actually think it's stupid to suggest that someone isn't worthy of our attention if they have professional songwriters help them out. if someone is a great vocalist and great live performer but doesn't write the best songs, who's to say they aren't allowed to have success? some great songwriters out there aren't great vocalists and don't have the personality for being an out-front artist. so why can't both of these two types of people work together and make music and be successful?
I've always thought that not liking an otherwise great singer who doesn't write their own songs is like saying you don't like a movie because the actors didn't write the script.
@@debra1363 yup. I agree.
This is why there is so much mediocrity especially in pop. Don't expect it to change until there is all out expulsion of this kind of "stars" If you really want grassroots pop or punk people can't look to these labels anymore and have to search for it by themselves. It's out there , it's beautiful, and it's real music.
I do think that a disconnect between someone's background and their music can lessen their music, especially if it's apeal is built on/wrapped up in conveying a certain mood/life experience. I think it's why I might have an easier time being open to more saccharine pop music, and conversely why I like rough around the edges, less refined/produced musicians when speaking to human experience at the margins. People who are making music in spite of limited resources and support, and with hopes of connecting to a similar class of people (rather than commercial success), or who are less easily digestable than what is mass marketable.
It can feel exploitative/like pandering to learn of the immense privilege of commercially successful and enormously profitable musicians whose aesthetic borrows just enough edge to be calculably packaged and sold. Or you can hear too much ambition for a large audience driving their music and it sounds like it lacks depth/artistic value. Especially when they get an excess of wealth from it, I feel repelled from adding my ears to their bank account when something that speaks to me more deeply is out there, comes from a more nuanced/complex place, and proportionately feels a much greater impact from my listening to them. Idk, we live in a new gilded age and music is wrapped up in wealth concentration just like everything else, ramble, ramble, etc., and so on.
I saw a Loverboy interview where Mike Reno talked about how the music exec told him he could make or break a song. He picked one song and that song indeed didn't make the top 10, despite being popular. The point is, how many great artists are being held back in favor of lesser artists? We can only compare to the other artists available. If a mediocre artist gets promoted because their rich, it will effect the poorer, more talented artist who can't bribe his way to the top. Also, the mob has its hand in the music industry, too, manipulating which songs get played on constant rotation and things like that.
I'm 64, I have a Pandora Loverboy station, Reno was an incredible vocalist, that duo with Ann Wilson is straight fire 🔥💣🔥
Who the fuck listens to the radio anymore?
It's called "Payola". Pay to Play at all levels of the music industry! It has been going on since the 1950s.
Here are two stories. One about a girl named Taylor. One about a guy named Frank. Taylor had mutual fund parents from NY who moved to Nashville and got her an after school setup writing "tunes" at the desk of a music publisher. Her "tunes" are negotiated to have her name in the songwriting credits. Frank went into the foster system, was homeless, beaten by cops, lived in a storage locker, learned music publishing, formed a band of fellow drug sufferers, and changed his name. He wrote his own songs either in a legit collab or solo. The girl is Taylor Swift. The boy is Nikki Sixx. Which one worked harder?
Exactly. I love it when people use the "she writes her own songs" argument in defense of Swift. No, she just has a very good set of suits negotiating songwriting credits for her.
why do you have to be beaten by cops and have a fucked up childhood like Nikki Sixx had to gain respect and be a respected musician?
FYI: Frank's (Or Nikki Sixx') uncle is Don Zimmerman, producer and president of Capitol Records. He might not be a great example to bring up when it comes to nepo babies and industry plants.
@@warkosy this is as beautiful an example as it is depressing 🙃
So we have to shit on Taylor Swift because she was born into a good family with stable income? Just because you don’t find Taylor Swift appealing or talented doesn’t mean she isn’t a good artist . What, because she appeals to teen girls and had a good family life she didn’t work as hard? Yeah her family helped her but it’s bull shit to act like Taylor is only famous because of her parents.
I didn't know that about Babymetal (I don't really follow any of this kind of stuff). I can't say I'm a huge fan of the group, but I am a fan of the vocalist Suzuka Nakamoto. She's obviously extremely talented, and during the live performances, she seems to enjoy what she's doing, and also take it very seriously and put forth the best she can.
Growing up, I was once told, it's not what you know, it's who you know.
I think this is accurate to an extent. Connections and privelege can open doors, but it's still up to the person to take those opportunities and prove their worth or talent.
I think this is no different in any industry, any parent who helps their child get their first job or pay for college is just using their industry connections to see their child succeed. Those with no talent won't get far no matter the connections, but opening that door to prove it is often a difficult first step most of us never get.
This has been going on since the 1960's.
The band called Ultimate Spinach is a great example. It was created by a record label boss in order to cash in on the 'Boston sound' which was a kind of competitor to what was known as the 'San Francisco sound' from bands like Jefferson Airplane and Country Joe and the Fish.. Janis Joplin.. Grateful Dead and so on.
Every. Single. 'Artist'. In the current Top 40 is a fabrication, they use attractive people to preform manufactured and catchy music which us formulated to be caught in people's minds. It's all designed to sell as a product. Nobody makes pop music for the artistry.
The Monkees is another perfect example
Ha, I'm in Boston and have that Spinach album. Research lead me down the interesting rabbit hole of the "Boss-Town Sound".
Billie and phinius shared a house with their parents? That's nice of them.
Baby metal whom I never heard of sounds the least like an industry plant because they were just applying for a job. Their parents didn’t own a bank and nothing about the family in the industry.
When you mention Baby metal or just k pop groups, their industry is very transparent about manufacturing the groups, as everyone knows that is just how the industry works. Here, we like people's story, as you mentioned, most of these industry plants like to minimize, hide, or lie about their upbringing and struggle into the industry. Laroi's backstroy is super messy and full of holes, besides just being friends with juicewrld.
Talent is important, but it's also not really rare anymore, there is so much talent out there that will go unnoticed because they have no opportunity or connections like others might; so people don't appreciate when you were given a shortcut to the top, regardless if they deserve to be there or not.
Babymetal was a "school club" for the music TV show Sakura Gakuin. They (producers) created several groups for different genres, one of them was a metal group. They just outgrew the TV show and started touring worldwide. That's why on this side, few people knows what Sakura Gakuin is, because we didn't had the TV show. They're planted, but they never pretended to write or play any of the music, the girls just sing and dance with a backup band.
Su-Metal also has an amazing soprano voice that reminds me of Amy from Evanescence and I think she kind of grew into her role that was presented to her.
Babymetal, Su Moa and Yui, fully admitted they’d never heard heavy metal music till Sakura Gakuin said they were going to do metal music. Since then they’ve come to own it and are very good!
It was primarily an Idol School but yes you're on point with everything.
You can't blame children for having rich parents, nobody decides who their parents are.
The only thing that pisses me off is when people don't acknowledge that their parents wealth helped them.
There's nothing wrong with parents trying help their children the best they could. But if you deny that your parents were helping you, you're just a spoiled brat.
But that's not only seen in music, I also know some people so fascinated by themselves, saying that all the wealth they have was because of their hard work and they owe society nothing, that they totally ignore that society gave them a stable environment, education, public transportation, healthcare and so on (at least here in germany :D).
And that's their reason to avoid taxes, exploit labor etc.
Another something about wealthy parents: they generally won't put in personal effort in a direction their kid wants to go if the kid doesn't have any talent for same. If Taylor Swift for example was a tone deaf noise polluter, daddy wouldn't shell out $300 let alone $300K on her music career - he'd push her in another direction.
"But that's not only seen in music, I also know some people so fascinated by themselves, saying that all the wealth they have was because of their hard work and they owe society nothing, that they totally ignore that society gave them a stable environment, education, public transportation, healthcare and so on"
there was one very YUGE example of that in American politics
@@IzunaSlap You mean the rich guy that got saved by Papa a couple of times and claims he doesn't belong to the "establishment" - despite being super rich?
I don't blame them, I just don't have any respect for them
when I toured I had no insurance whatsoever. the hunger for the dream has a different purpose when you are risking your health
I think that a lot depends on the artist as well as honesty. For example, people used that label with Lana Del Rey, but hers was complicated, because her dad did have money and connections, but Lizzy Grant was living in a trailer park for years before she got signed to a major label, had a day job, and made the scene in NYC performing and going to a lot of showcases, so it doesn't seem like she necessarily used those connections.
The more complex the topic the higher Finn's eyebrow gets
I have been in the So Cal music scene for 20+ years. Played in several different bands, some bad, some great, some decent. One thing I can tell you, is there are great bands playing every weekend in seedy dive bars playing to 20-30 people, working their asses of in and out of the studio, spending their own money to get albums made, and no one will ever know who they are outside of their circle of followers, and their are some really shitty bands that make it big. Maybe they were industry plants, maybe they were funded by mommy and daddy (See Something Corporate), maybe they were just in the right place at the right time. Either way, it is ultimately up to the people to consume the product. You can be great, or you can suck, but if you arrange the right chords, and throw in a catchy chorus, anything can happen. You can't blame the artist for being successful, success is never guaranteed in the music biz, ultimately it's the people that have to decide to buy into it.
Very well said
Yeah, yeah...sounds like something an industry plant would say
Words from the guitarist of behemoth " don't make a group, the market is saturated. Get a real job, finish college degree, travel, enjoy life, just don't make a group"
Well that;s the grim truth - being talented, being great artist, making great music/art is never equals to being rich and famous. And history of civilization show's quite the same - the most significant genious rarely rich before their achivements. And even after those achivements they are not so often become rich.
But most importantly - life is not about rules everything happens both ways - but some things are more likely to occur
Or see Fall Out Boy. Lol. Pete Wentz's family is TIED IN politically.
I am almost completely convinced that Hollywood in the music industry. Create stars, they tell people what to like. it’s a push not a pull
Great video!!!!
One of the opinions I have on these artists is that they pretty much paint a picture and prove the point that only those with industry connections and support from major companies/labels can truly succeed at the level they do. It seems that the average person will never be able to reach that type of success, and that’s just discouraging because most people don’t have those in industry connections and it seems impossible without it. Basically, everyone who wants to pursue a passion like acting/music/art has to compete with those who are already born into the business, and it’s very disappointing because a lot of people have beautiful and meaningful art to share.
Lol I went to argue with you on this point, but as I started listing grassroots artists I realized they’re 20+ years since their debut. I guess that’s just how it is now. Pretty sad
That's the feeling I get from visual art. I think, when you're "successful" at it you ultimately paint a bad picture for people. They think that everything's fine, and that if they pursue art as a career then someday they'll make it. But that's not the reality, in the slightest. Galleries, museums, art collectives, all of that is done through networking, and almost 100 percent of the time, wealth will be at the root of that networking. So when I talk to people about what I do, I try to be very, very honest. And a lot of the times, in the past, when being honest about it, I'd get plenty of people being outright angry at me for telling them just how hopeless of a career it can be for most who aren't coming from a good, and connected background.
Art and music as therapy is great, connected with the psychological dispositions that help one become well rounded in regards to creativity, vulnerability, emotion, empathy, etc.. etc.. - that's the important part, and if that's your plan in life, that is, developing that type of artistic and psychological voice, then have at it.
Art and music as a career though?
You're probably not going to make it far.
@@deloriablackwolf1251 I think the biggest issue is that everyone only sees huge financial success to be the goal. There are plenty of little artists making a bit of money on the side through their music and even if they can't make a living of it probably have the time of their life doing little gigs and whatnot.
So I would agree this field isn't a good choice for getting rich and famous, but a great one if you care about your passion and actually living a happy life ;)
Anyone with the right talent can make it, but you need support to climb the ladder. There's a lot of ways to get/build that support. If you not already got usable support in some way from family or friends, you have to expose you talent and hope to make the right people interesting in helping you with the "business". Justin Beiber did that by uploading videos on YT. Young irish Aliie Sherlock got a mail from Ryan Tedder (Adele/Beyonce) after he had seen one of her YT videos. People inside the business are always looking for new talents. It's not necessarily label people, just look at Dave Grohls support of very young youtuber Nandi Bushell. Lzzy Hale do similar show a lot of support rght now for an young mexican all girl hardrock trio called The Warning.
Another twist of this about a musical career could be someone like Mary Spender that realized her talent and drive weren't strong enough to make a traditional living on the music. Now she have an successful YT channel and her life is still all about music, singing, playing, gigs and she even release orginal albums. The difference is she don't rely on making an living on her songs or doing tours.
Honestly Finn this is great work. Def make some great points. Yourself, Melon, and helloyasine are getting people into new music without the gatekeeping that we all love. I know a lot of old school hardcore, scene, screamo etc fans aren't into rap/hip hop. But give helloyassine some love. Sorry if I misspelled.