Also a note: I ordered 20 pairs worth of samples from these vendors back before and they all came in fine. The vendors screwed me over *after* I placed a bulk order. So I did screen all of my vendors beforehand.
Stinks that that happens. Oftentimes we would hire our own QC agents or a local independent to clear production shipments abroad specifically for this reason. Even then bribery and collusion was a possible risk.
Thank goodness you wrote that comment. I was bout to linch you for beeing a badly organized and not good designer XD. Thats why in future i will have my own 3d printing farm and will make friends in CNC industry.
couldn't you gave gotten a refund? i mean those prints seem majorly deformed and therefore not usable. only seems fair if they would refund you for the problem on their part
If you are in sales, you don't, either. You don't have to fund things. Money has it's own cost. But over time, with experience, things get cheaper. This is amateur hour still, the guy needs more experience and better planning, experience costs money. Just consider you bought it. Like, 'I bought these pads, but now I found those ones which are better, so I bought those'. And then, 'I have no agreement regarding quality and didn't do a sample round so I bought hundreds of useless plastic parts'. It will get better with experience. But, I wonder if he bothered going to China and digging up better suppliers, at better prices?
@@wahid-lg1kk I don't think you have any idea how reality works with projects like this. High end headphones are never going to be a high volume business. Goodluck getting a Chinese suppier that can provide the wanted quality in small batches. The important thing with stuff like this is quality not quantity.
@@wahid-lg1kk lol. I work in a relatively small company. 20 stores across Denmark. I have been here for years and we have our own brand. Even we who need thousands of orders sometimes get a not in china because the orders are too small. Yeah he should have done samples. But what I meant was that few people understand that most businesses have about 50% profit on a sale after taxes and that has to pay for labor, rent, utilities and everything. So this video is very good for showing that.
@@trevor245 When you are small, you have to pay for the sample rounds. It's always worth it. Trust me on this. As a consultant, I always tell people to do this, and they never do. And they always regret it. And China is not all huge factories, and then nothing. But you have to go there and network.
Bear in mind this isn't representative at all. Take out all the avoidable fuck-ups and their profit would've been well over double. They were also discounting this batch, and as he said himself, there's a lot of equipment they now own that batch 1 covered. All said and done, assuming no big mistakes or dodgy manufacturing with batch 2 (which shouldn't happen now that they've got capable manufacturers), they'll be making a tidy profit with future batches. There's a lot of small businesses that operate with much tighter profit margins. The only thing holding back big profits on this is sales/scaling up.
I'm a bit confused, what happened on reddit? Not too too, involved in the online audiophile hobby, kinda just enjoy what I got and watch you for other info :P. Also might as well ask here, I was thinking about getting the Beyer Tygr 300rs, would you still say they have a good sound stage compared to other things on the market today? I've been splitting hairs trying to find something with a good sound stage and decent detail, I got a pair of IEMs and I like them but I have some ear canal issues which make wearing for extended durations rough
@dms godamn Reddit man, but no great work on this. We're all super proud. I hoped I could afford this but I am excited for when you make your bag on this and project becomes open source
Kinda sad how you had to make it at all considering a genuinely linear aggregate transfer fuction FR isn't that hard to do on headphones, but there is always some compromise. We dont have linear headphones like we do iems, so this was necessary as genuinely well tuned headphone, but they should already exist.
Very true. The hd600 has bass problems even with eq. Almost every other headphone either messes up the 1k or the 5 to 6k region. Even the DCA stuff has weird things going on the the treble or they have too long of a bass shelf.
It's staggering really. The hd600 and the DCA stuff are the only headphones I know to have any form of linearity in the midrange. Even the 650 is too tubby in the bass, creating nonlinear distortion (colour) in the playback recording.
@@Sturgonyup ,LCDX 21 ..that dropout right at 4k (giving recession to vocals) and that bass roll off (tho’ a great headphone for EDM and Movie OST 🤷🏽♂️) I’m looking into the new Meze Emp’s’ or Elites as my endgame….
I work at a company in Germany, we develop and manufacture medical devices. A few points in general: Test EVERY unit before it ships. Especially the first few batches, and not just at the end. One step, one test. Also, trust no supplier! The best guy in the company does the first few samples to get the contract, the actual bulk order gets done by some unqualified idiots. Add 3 months to the initial internal production deadline. If something goes wrong and you need to change something, the next batch of parts can take 2 months easily. We also had an issue with item cases. We designt the case to fit the product, got a batch manufactured. But just then the product charger manufacturer changes the dimensions of it. Charger doesn't fit in the case anymore. So we squeeze the charger somehow in the case, until this batch is sold. Then new adjusted design for the next one.
Appreciate the openness on costs. Anyone seriously questioning this has no idea what it takes to make a product you can actually sell to the public. Hope the next batch goes more smoothly!
Appreciated the transparency DMS. I pulled the trigger on batch 2 earlier this week, after seeing the initial impression really excited to get my hands on it. I also wear glasses and it being friendly while focus on comfort and lightweight is already a bonus for me. PS, That reddit thread is insane, They look great personally, it gives off the handmade character charm look I like.
i just looked this driver, its 11 dollars from parts express buying 1 ~Peerless HPD-50N25PR00-32 2" Headphone Driver Diaphragm so he was right, my guy. it took me 1 min to find it, that thats buying 1 , imagine when you buy 1000 so i know alot more gowes into makeing them, but as far as the driver cost he was very right.
@@Gateseleven that was exactly the point i was making. a lot more goes into a headphone than a 10 or 11$ driver. which is also the point of this video.
Congrats DMS! I can’t wait to get mine in batch 2. I wish you all the success! The frequency response on these looks damn near perfect for my preferences. I can tell they were inspired by the HD650, which is a very good thing 👏🏼
Not sure if this is the correct video to ask but I posted these questions in a couple other discussions w/o a response. so here...... 1) Aside from the apparent aesthetical benefits (exterior finish) and arguable structural qualities SLS provides over a premium FDM filament, does it improve the sound that the drivers deliver? If so, how? 2) Did you modify and / or make any kind of tuning to improve the sound? Both, the Kennerton Vali and the Aurorus Borealis use the same driver from Tympany. Two headphones I am sure you have reviewed or at least tested before. 3) Sound-wise, how do your headphones differentiate from those two?
Brother, this is such an awesome, transparent project. Love what you’re doing for the community. Love how much passion you have towards this project. Much love from Portland ❤
Really sorry you had to deal with that BS reddit thread, lots of insane takes on there. I really love what you're doing with these headphones though and boy if I could afford them I'd buy them immediately.
I was about to post in the reddit thread that, at this qty (~200 pairs, 500 cups) you can almost have the cups (designed to be) CNC'd from something like POM or solid nylon bar stock and "might" end up even lower cost than SLS. And if you're smart enough to have some 2D, or "2.5D" parts, you may wanna use thin sheets of CNC'd carbon fiber for some bling and also bring the cost down (again compared to SLS).
I've talked to Douglas about the Omega a while back at a Canjam show before it was announced and he said the internal structure of the cups that is vital to the tuning could not be manufactured in any other way other than SLS. SLS was a necessity not just a practicality.
@@KwongKan yeah I feel like the final commercial product has been held back a bit by being produced solely from additive manufacturing - but given that he intends to release the project to the public so they can build them at home, it's fair enough. Still, I'd love to see an Omega2 without these limitations go into production in the future
@@redgopnik2227 Fair enough, in fact I've already printed a pair of Tofty 4 and I'm pretty satisied. Looking forward to when Omega become open and make one.
Props to you for the transparency behind this entire project. It really does add perspective to someone who covers products, in that, taking time to understand what goes on behind the scenes is important. We can't simply judge a product based on price. Unless of course it's garbage, but that is not the case here. I'm looking forward to sharing my feedback on Project Omega. Cheers!
I own many headphones already including some very high-end ones. I bought a pair of these headphones from Batch 1 purely on faith and curiosity (as well as appreciating DMS' product reviews and general approach to audio) and just got them today! Right out of the box, with no break-in time on them at all, they already sound amazing! I only took them off of my head long enough to go make dinner. Very comfortable as well as completely non-fatiguing. The sound is perfectly balanced from the low-end to a gorgeous mid-range on up to sparkly high frequencies without edge or harshness. They also scale beautifully. (I'm considering buying another pair already!) Enthusiastic thumbs up! Bravo DMS!
Have you tried the Aune AR5000? Some people are saying these are just copying the AR5000 but charging an arm and a leg for it. AR5000 is fantastic btw.
I really appreciate this project and the transparency you talk about it , I am really exited to get mine from batch 2 , just from the graphs I can tell it will sound spectacular, with the yellow parts looks really nice, I hope I can get those parts in that color, greetings from Uruguay 😄
@@estebanmaestro7082 Absolutely, the impedance is non-linear so on an OTL amp you'll get a measurable increase in sub-bass. It's pretty fun. That was actually part of the design 😄
Watching this video with my own Omega. Love them. Great craftsmanship. I am really happy I bought them. Thank you DMS! I wish you great success with the upcoming batches and a better margin ;)
Once these headphones get to people's hands and build a wider solid reputation, people should start getting over, and even start liking the look. I've seen this happen to multiple products from other hobbies that were initially called ugly on reflex but became community favorites after a few months.
Can you make a video on how you tuned the drivers to the specific frequency response? That would be really interesting to know how you can get different frequency responses using the same driver.
Honestly, it's easy to mess with the FR, something I learned while doing the driver matching on these. I was using little paper labels to sort the cups numerically, so I could keep track of pairings. For about 4-5 tests, I had started to put the little paper slips on the back of the headphone, covering the hole on the back of the driver. Completely tanked the bass response. Like a 10+dB drop. Realized pretty quick I had messed something up, and wasn't just getting a series of bad drivers.
Little changes around the driver and the on the chassis can cause some weird reflections, and the amount of space behind the driver port can drastically affect how it sounds
Thanks for exposing these difficulties on building the product because sometimes people don't realize how costly stuff can be and what savings very large companies can make as they are able to buy very large amounts of stock, enabling to negotiate down the costs. People just get to think everyone is charged the same.
As an engineer who works in product development, it's stuff like this that really shows that it's not as easy as many people think when they want to go out and make their own products. At the same time, I am a bit surprised at some purchase decisions but I trust you had reasons for what you did or had been led to believe that the quality would be better than it turned out to be on the bulk order. Hope the rest of the batches go well!
Sorry to ask this again, but when exactly is the absolutely final date of buying the headphones - when will the final batch 4 start and end? I don't want to miss it!
Being in love with this hobby of ours one can’t totally escape to not understand just how uneasy all this is! I definitely sympathize with engineering and manufacturing costs. Being creative gets expensive. It is what it is. I do hope to try the headphone though. DMS. Congrats. And thank you for the insight into how the industry is and can be. 🤝
Damn shame that this even needs to be explained for the ignorant people out there. But an enjoyable video none the less being able to see the breakdown of what it takes to bring a product to market.
Not going to lie, it’s ugly, but so are grand slammers like Hifiman Arya and the HD800S. I’m shocked how well you got that frequency response - that’s what I was *really* expecting to be bad. Way to go on that! I always expect any company/individual’s first pair of headphones to suck, but to get it right first try is really crazy man!
Good job, bro. It's impressive to have done this and come this far. People need to stop complaining about the price and appreciate how you were able to manufacture these by yourself or with a small team.
DMS, any thoughts on doing a B stock sale similar to what ZMF or Audeze does? You mentioned some units had a scratched headband etc which I'm sure some people would not be bothered by and would purchase at a discount.
Nicely Done. Cost of a start up Priceless. You might want to add the cost of an accountant for the future. Keep it up. You can only learn from experience :)
Awesome video. really eye-opening. I know I'm at least partly responsible for the driver cost comment 😅 I'm proud to say I was wrong. Omega's sound amazing. I love my pair. I wish more people would give them a chance to love them before hating on them needlessly
Have my Omega headphones and listening to this video with them. Great fit, excellent comfort, and really beautiful sound quality. Great tuning. Well worth the money and you and your team deserve to make a proper profit on designing, sourcing components and puttinf all of thia togther. BTW, im using the Omega with a set of Zeos' Magia cables terminated in 4.4 Great combination
Great video...!!! An interesting rundown of what actually occurs when you take on the task of building your own headphones which are meant for the marketplace...!!! Congratulations & March On...!!!
Only thing I don't get is why did you decide to only do 4 batches? So many things learned about manufacturing and just stop after a year? give it some revision and keep making headphones 🙂
It's not out of the question that he'll make another headphone in the future, but right now his focus is just on this one. That's what he said in one of his earlier videos.
I personally think making a headphone from scratch and you having to outsource most of the work, to make a profit on the first batch is pretty amazing. I've seen a lot of first runs make a loss due to set up costs and unknown failures.
Since this is the first time you have done this it is expected there would be some revenue leakage on learnings. You need to just look at it as an educational expense. Now for your future batches and projects you will use the correct manufactures and the learning is priceless and your profits will be better. Good going!
I know the answer is "because, internet" but I still don't understand people complaining about the cost of things they don't want and will never buy at any price (other than free I guess...). I suppose some of them think they're doing some lord's work to save another person from the cost... but by now you have to know you absolutely are not doing that.
Hello Doug,....I knew the rubber behind you was probably for the headphones! I received #0101 and thus far (still needs more burn-in to be fair to others that I have in my collection and listen to regularly) they are sounding SWEEEET! Hey brother, I wouldn't mind one of the rubber headphone "holders" ....I can hack through it to make them fit. Also, since anyone buying these will already have their own set of cables (mine are 11 feet long and I listen to them through my V281 sitting on my sofa) maybe you should consider offering the cables as an option? Just a thought. Again,... would love one of the foam inserts and would be glad to pay shipping. BTW, nice touch including the personalized "note" with the Omegas, it was greatly appreciated! Thx again.
Damn. For a video titled "What it really costs to build a headphone", you could've at least stated what the cost of materials per pair of headphones is. It feels omitted almost intentionally.
For those who have one, how have you found the durability? I'm not extremely hard on my headphones but I've had one fall from their stand a time or two.
So it's not a super scientific test, but I took an early b-stock pair with me on vacation for a week, so it made it through airports, shuttle busses, suitcases, and then onto a cruise ship, where I wore them pretty much every day, and sometimes took them with me in to port, to beaches and things. Still daily driving that pair right now, at my desk.
I can comment on specifically these aspects that make them pretty durable: There's a hard resin epoxy holding the 3.5mm jack in place, the drivers are hot-glued in place, but are *very* hard to remove now (we've been testing a specific driver in different cups recently), the headband yoke extension and cap, and the locking ring on the 3.5mm jack and secured with red lock-tite.
I own a pair. They feel solid enough to me. I have no concerns about a floor bounce. I'm not about to hurl them against a wall like a rage monster that just lost a round of COD, nor am I about to throw them out into a busy road to see how they handle being run over by cars and/or trucks. Respect your money, and treat them appropriately, and I reckon they should last a decent chunk of a lifetime.
Building a headphone is really expensive... that is unless you're a big company doing it in China then it's like 10 bucks for a headphone that's got 300$ MSRP. So ultimately made in USA is what's killing this offer, especially for a first headphone of some youtuber who doesn't have renowned trusted brand in terms of audio tech.
people often bitch about the cost of a product but they don't take in account the R&D, labor to build, customer support before and after the sale, warranty, and shipping. I often say to customers, shipping is free for customers but it's not free for the seller. lol...
@@liamhenderson3958 You are right. Ventilation, construction, and a driver's seat may be suitable for something open to the back. Thank you and I wish you a happy day.
When will you open source this I'm getting the driver's, soldering iron and 3d printer can you just open source it I'll skip a few parts and 3d printer all plessseeeee
It is a pass for me, I am sticking to my Hifiman and sennheiser, sorry no hate here, sound and comfort "MIGHT" be great but it just doesn't look that appealing to me IMHO, also staying with my IEM's collaborated with Crinacle, I wish you good luck tho
So you made 10 grand in profit for 3 months of assembly time and you think that's a bad return? Considering that subsequent batches will be even quicker and take no development investment that seems like a pretty great starting off point.
They still have no excuse for their garbage pre-soldered cable. I don't mind the build of my SR80X (especially at their price point) but I would never shell out for their more expensive models.
Having worked on 60+ headphone SKUS in my career, for what you spend on 3D printed parts, you can easily tool the parts, have massive improvements in terms of accuracy (tolerance vs nominals), part strength and reliability,, not to mention being in a totally different realm of cosmetics. Tooling the band and associated parts is not that costly and making foams and cups / headband pads to your preferred shape / density and adding branding or other features is not expensive, but gives you tons of options.
But you need to commission someone for each stage of a supply chain that uses tooling (he has no training as a machinist). 3D printing only has one, so the labour is demonstrably cheaper. The labour is the majority of the cost.
To be honest, takeing all those problems is good enough you made 10k in profit for the first bach so keep it going cuz its quite a hard and nice thing you are trying to do id like to support you at this but my most expensive headphone were edition xs at 282$ soo :))) its out of my league but good luck and keep up the good work.
Only peeve about it is the same as the most common pricing practice which is the 99 thing like, I know it's psychology and stuff but cmon. Just a small and personal gripe for an otherwise awesome product and story.
It depends what do you want. It can costs from 5 up to more than 100.000 USD….it is the same answer for about everything that you can manufacture. From a needle up to a rocket…😂
The price is returning to MSRP. Batch one was sold 10% off for early-adopters. It's not just me here too. There's other peoples jobs that rely on this project.
£1k is absolutely hard to justify if your personal financial situation makes it a difficult purchase. In such a situation you absolutely shouldn't even be considering purchasing these, or any other similarly priced headphones. I suspect there are much more important regular outgoings in your life that should be prioritised. If, however, your personal financial circumstances are such that your disposable income makes a headphone purchase in the £1k range viable without significant sacrifice, then it is absolutely justifiable. What you meant to say, I'm sure, is that these headphones are not for you because you cannot personally justify the purchase - and that your personal circumstance and experience are applicable to precisely you and no-one else and, as such, you have no say over what is or is not justifiable to anyone else. Also, the concept of "early-bird" pricing is not new - this won't be the only time you encounter it.
Also a note: I ordered 20 pairs worth of samples from these vendors back before and they all came in fine. The vendors screwed me over *after* I placed a bulk order. So I did screen all of my vendors beforehand.
Stinks that that happens. Oftentimes we would hire our own QC agents or a local independent to clear production shipments abroad specifically for this reason. Even then bribery and collusion was a possible risk.
Thank goodness you wrote that comment. I was bout to linch you for beeing a badly organized and not good designer XD. Thats why in future i will have my own 3d printing farm and will make friends in CNC industry.
WTF, humans in economics...
Ask for “samples” is completely different from qualify a supplier…it is a risk x cost analysis…
couldn't you gave gotten a refund? i mean those prints seem majorly deformed and therefore not usable. only seems fair if they would refund you for the problem on their part
As someone who works in sales. Its incredible how few people understand how little most businesses make on the bottom line. Thanks for showing this
If you are in sales, you don't, either. You don't have to fund things. Money has it's own cost. But over time, with experience, things get cheaper. This is amateur hour still, the guy needs more experience and better planning, experience costs money. Just consider you bought it. Like, 'I bought these pads, but now I found those ones which are better, so I bought those'. And then, 'I have no agreement regarding quality and didn't do a sample round so I bought hundreds of useless plastic parts'. It will get better with experience. But, I wonder if he bothered going to China and digging up better suppliers, at better prices?
@@wahid-lg1kk I don't think you have any idea how reality works with projects like this. High end headphones are never going to be a high volume business. Goodluck getting a Chinese suppier that can provide the wanted quality in small batches. The important thing with stuff like this is quality not quantity.
@@wahid-lg1kk lol. I work in a relatively small company. 20 stores across Denmark. I have been here for years and we have our own brand. Even we who need thousands of orders sometimes get a not in china because the orders are too small. Yeah he should have done samples. But what I meant was that few people understand that most businesses have about 50% profit on a sale after taxes and that has to pay for labor, rent, utilities and everything. So this video is very good for showing that.
@@trevor245 When you are small, you have to pay for the sample rounds. It's always worth it. Trust me on this. As a consultant, I always tell people to do this, and they never do. And they always regret it. And China is not all huge factories, and then nothing. But you have to go there and network.
Bear in mind this isn't representative at all. Take out all the avoidable fuck-ups and their profit would've been well over double. They were also discounting this batch, and as he said himself, there's a lot of equipment they now own that batch 1 covered.
All said and done, assuming no big mistakes or dodgy manufacturing with batch 2 (which shouldn't happen now that they've got capable manufacturers), they'll be making a tidy profit with future batches. There's a lot of small businesses that operate with much tighter profit margins. The only thing holding back big profits on this is sales/scaling up.
The Reddit timing was funny but I actually filmed this vid earlier this week
my man got the 3rd eye open with the timing
@@genmaicha_ 👁️ lisan al gaib
I'm a bit confused, what happened on reddit?
Not too too, involved in the online audiophile hobby, kinda just enjoy what I got and watch you for other info :P. Also might as well ask here, I was thinking about getting the Beyer Tygr 300rs, would you still say they have a good sound stage compared to other things on the market today? I've been splitting hairs trying to find something with a good sound stage and decent detail, I got a pair of IEMs and I like them but I have some ear canal issues which make wearing for extended durations rough
@@tnamrod People over on reddit claiming I build these for like $10 lol.
@dms godamn Reddit man, but no great work on this. We're all super proud. I hoped I could afford this but I am excited for when you make your bag on this and project becomes open source
The turnaround on this after that stupid Reddit thread is impressive.
I saw that 🙄
I filmed this a few days ago actually lol
@@DMS3TV peoples ignorance kills me sometimes
Good anticipation
I see that sub is as toxic as always. So glad I almost never go there anymore
This is why when Harmonicdyne offered I said YES.. loudly. Brave man going into this. Here's to you on Batch 8 when you can actually make money.
Kinda sad how you had to make it at all considering a genuinely linear aggregate transfer fuction FR isn't that hard to do on headphones, but there is always some compromise. We dont have linear headphones like we do iems, so this was necessary as genuinely well tuned headphone, but they should already exist.
Very true. The hd600 has bass problems even with eq. Almost every other headphone either messes up the 1k or the 5 to 6k region. Even the DCA stuff has weird things going on the the treble or they have too long of a bass shelf.
It's staggering really. The hd600 and the DCA stuff are the only headphones I know to have any form of linearity in the midrange. Even the 650 is too tubby in the bass, creating nonlinear distortion (colour) in the playback recording.
@@Sturgonyup ,LCDX 21 ..that dropout right at 4k (giving recession to vocals) and that bass roll off (tho’ a great headphone for EDM and Movie OST 🤷🏽♂️)
I’m looking into the new Meze Emp’s’ or Elites as my endgame….
@@carminedesanto6746 I would get the emp 2v over the elite. It's a much better headphone if meze is where you want to go.
I work at a company in Germany, we develop and manufacture medical devices. A few points in general: Test EVERY unit before it ships. Especially the first few batches, and not just at the end. One step, one test. Also, trust no supplier! The best guy in the company does the first few samples to get the contract, the actual bulk order gets done by some unqualified idiots. Add 3 months to the initial internal production deadline. If something goes wrong and you need to change something, the next batch of parts can take 2 months easily.
We also had an issue with item cases. We designt the case to fit the product, got a batch manufactured. But just then the product charger manufacturer changes the dimensions of it. Charger doesn't fit in the case anymore. So we squeeze the charger somehow in the case, until this batch is sold. Then new adjusted design for the next one.
When is project Sigma brother?
After project Ligma, king
😭🤣@@DMS3TV
Appreciate the openness on costs. Anyone seriously questioning this has no idea what it takes to make a product you can actually sell to the public. Hope the next batch goes more smoothly!
Oh yea, well I can build this headphone in a cave with a box of scraps!
and save a buck
Love the sustainable re-appropriation of the packaging foam and using it as a sound wall.
Listening to this on my Batch 1 Omega, number 65!
It's so cool to see these project videos. I feel like an employee stock owner getting a quarterly report! Thanks for sharing, bud.
Appreciated the transparency DMS. I pulled the trigger on batch 2 earlier this week, after seeing the initial impression really excited to get my hands on it. I also wear glasses and it being friendly while focus on comfort and lightweight is already a bonus for me.
PS, That reddit thread is insane, They look great personally, it gives off the handmade character charm look I like.
We are still missing at least one guy from Reddit saying that "the driver costs only 10$ a piece".
i just looked this driver, its 11 dollars from parts express buying 1 ~Peerless HPD-50N25PR00-32 2" Headphone Driver Diaphragm
so he was right, my guy. it took me 1 min to find it, that thats buying 1 , imagine when you buy 1000
so i know alot more gowes into makeing them, but as far as the driver cost he was very right.
@@Gateseleven that was exactly the point i was making. a lot more goes into a headphone than a 10 or 11$ driver. which is also the point of this video.
@@andreasschwarz4908no that wasn’t the point you were making.
@@nng2442 it was and you're not going to convince me otherwise
@@nng2442 reading comprehension of a wet piece of paper
Congrats DMS! I can’t wait to get mine in batch 2. I wish you all the success! The frequency response on these looks damn near perfect for my preferences. I can tell they were inspired by the HD650, which is a very good thing 👏🏼
Not sure if this is the correct video to ask but I posted these questions in a couple other discussions w/o a response. so here...... 1) Aside from the apparent aesthetical benefits (exterior finish) and arguable structural qualities SLS provides over a premium FDM filament, does it improve the sound that the drivers deliver? If so, how? 2) Did you modify and / or make any kind of tuning to improve the sound? Both, the Kennerton Vali and the Aurorus Borealis use the same driver from Tympany. Two headphones I am sure you have reviewed or at least tested before. 3) Sound-wise, how do your headphones differentiate from those two?
Brother, this is such an awesome, transparent project. Love what you’re doing for the community. Love how much passion you have towards this project. Much love from Portland ❤
Really sorry you had to deal with that BS reddit thread, lots of insane takes on there. I really love what you're doing with these headphones though and boy if I could afford them I'd buy them immediately.
I was about to post in the reddit thread that, at this qty (~200 pairs, 500 cups) you can almost have the cups (designed to be) CNC'd from something like POM or solid nylon bar stock and "might" end up even lower cost than SLS. And if you're smart enough to have some 2D, or "2.5D" parts, you may wanna use thin sheets of CNC'd carbon fiber for some bling and also bring the cost down (again compared to SLS).
I've talked to Douglas about the Omega a while back at a Canjam show before it was announced and he said the internal structure of the cups that is vital to the tuning could not be manufactured in any other way other than SLS. SLS was a necessity not just a practicality.
@@KwongKan yeah I feel like the final commercial product has been held back a bit by being produced solely from additive manufacturing - but given that he intends to release the project to the public so they can build them at home, it's fair enough. Still, I'd love to see an Omega2 without these limitations go into production in the future
@@redgopnik2227 Fair enough, in fact I've already printed a pair of Tofty 4 and I'm pretty satisied. Looking forward to when Omega become open and make one.
@@andrewayers1141just because they could not find another solution does not mean one doesn't exist
That wall behind you is beautiful!
Props to you for the transparency behind this entire project. It really does add perspective to someone who covers products, in that, taking time to understand what goes on behind the scenes is important. We can't simply judge a product based on price. Unless of course it's garbage, but that is not the case here. I'm looking forward to sharing my feedback on Project Omega. Cheers!
Worked about 2 years on making a headset, and then we scrapped it. This video sure had many relatable moments. Keep it up DMS!
I own many headphones already including some very high-end ones. I bought a pair of these headphones from Batch 1 purely on faith and curiosity (as well as appreciating DMS' product reviews and general approach to audio) and just got them today! Right out of the box, with no break-in time on them at all, they already sound amazing! I only took them off of my head long enough to go make dinner. Very comfortable as well as completely non-fatiguing. The sound is perfectly balanced from the low-end to a gorgeous mid-range on up to sparkly high frequencies without edge or harshness. They also scale beautifully. (I'm considering buying another pair already!) Enthusiastic thumbs up! Bravo DMS!
Have you tried the Aune AR5000? Some people are saying these are just copying the AR5000 but charging an arm and a leg for it. AR5000 is fantastic btw.
I really appreciate this project and the transparency you talk about it , I am really exited to get mine from batch 2 , just from the graphs I can tell it will sound spectacular, with the yellow parts looks really nice, I hope I can get those parts in that color, greetings from Uruguay 😄
Thanks! Hey my Cousin lives in Uruguay! I hear it's a beautiful place.
@@DMS3TV It is lovely! you should come and visit! do it in summer so you can have a nice time by the beach
@@DMS3TV do you think that omegas will run properly from an OTL tube amp? I am saying because of the low impedance
@@estebanmaestro7082 Absolutely, the impedance is non-linear so on an OTL amp you'll get a measurable increase in sub-bass. It's pretty fun. That was actually part of the design 😄
Watching this video with my own Omega. Love them. Great craftsmanship. I am really happy I bought them. Thank you DMS! I wish you great success with the upcoming batches and a better margin ;)
The fact that there's any money left over, AND people actually got product, is actually quite impressive.
Dms which vendor did you end up going with for the USA made sls parts? I’d like some quality USA manufacturing to be done and wanted to support them.
Appreciate the transparency. Awesome project man.
Once these headphones get to people's hands and build a wider solid reputation, people should start getting over, and even start liking the look. I've seen this happen to multiple products from other hobbies that were initially called ugly on reflex but became community favorites after a few months.
Can you make a video on how you tuned the drivers to the specific frequency response? That would be really interesting to know how you can get different frequency responses using the same driver.
Honestly, it's easy to mess with the FR, something I learned while doing the driver matching on these. I was using little paper labels to sort the cups numerically, so I could keep track of pairings. For about 4-5 tests, I had started to put the little paper slips on the back of the headphone, covering the hole on the back of the driver. Completely tanked the bass response. Like a 10+dB drop. Realized pretty quick I had messed something up, and wasn't just getting a series of bad drivers.
Little changes around the driver and the on the chassis can cause some weird reflections, and the amount of space behind the driver port can drastically affect how it sounds
Thanks for exposing these difficulties on building the product because sometimes people don't realize how costly stuff can be and what savings very large companies can make as they are able to buy very large amounts of stock, enabling to negotiate down the costs. People just get to think everyone is charged the same.
This is an AMAZING video, shows everything. 10/10 should be recommended to anyone buying headphones.
I so, so appreciate you making this video, it's super informative. Thanks for all you've done for this community!
Bead blast the SLS, then spray paint it, that will look better and probably be cheaper than re-makung from scratch.
As an engineer who works in product development, it's stuff like this that really shows that it's not as easy as many people think when they want to go out and make their own products. At the same time, I am a bit surprised at some purchase decisions but I trust you had reasons for what you did or had been led to believe that the quality would be better than it turned out to be on the bulk order. Hope the rest of the batches go well!
Please make a closed back version!!
Sorry to ask this again, but when exactly is the absolutely final date of buying the headphones - when will the final batch 4 start and end? I don't want to miss it!
there's not an exact date. We just start each batch after the previous one starts shipping. It should be about 9 months from now. Maybe a little less.
Being in love with this hobby of ours one can’t totally escape to not understand just how uneasy all this is!
I definitely sympathize with engineering and manufacturing costs. Being creative gets expensive. It is what it is. I do hope to try the headphone though. DMS. Congrats. And thank you for the insight into how the industry is and can be. 🤝
I have received my unit and I want to congratulate you on a truly magnificent pair of headphones that have become my daily driver!🎉🎉🎉
Damn shame that this even needs to be explained for the ignorant people out there. But an enjoyable video none the less being able to see the breakdown of what it takes to bring a product to market.
Not going to lie, it’s ugly, but so are grand slammers like Hifiman Arya and the HD800S.
I’m shocked how well you got that frequency response - that’s what I was *really* expecting to be bad. Way to go on that! I always expect any company/individual’s first pair of headphones to suck, but to get it right first try is really crazy man!
Good job, bro. It's impressive to have done this and come this far. People need to stop complaining about the price and appreciate how you were able to manufacture these by yourself or with a small team.
Great video. First ive heard about these headphones. congrats on keeping it all together.
Never selling it! The Omega on ZMF's Aegis is wow sounding.
@DMS you are an absolute legend to me in the headphone community. Ignore the negative press and congrats on releasing your own headphone. Epic stuff
DMS, any thoughts on doing a B stock sale similar to what ZMF or Audeze does? You mentioned some units had a scratched headband etc which I'm sure some people would not be bothered by and would purchase at a discount.
I admire your commitment in making your 1st headphone. I can’t wait to receive my order
Nicely Done.
Cost of a start up
Priceless.
You might want to add the cost of an accountant for the future.
Keep it up. You can only learn from experience :)
Awesome video. really eye-opening.
I know I'm at least partly responsible for the driver cost comment 😅
I'm proud to say I was wrong. Omega's sound amazing. I love my pair.
I wish more people would give them a chance to love them before hating on them needlessly
well I hope to buy one during batch 4
That's one impressive wall of foam you got back there
It's like a chef showing the restaurant bills, kinda odd and cool.
Have my Omega headphones and listening to this video with them.
Great fit, excellent comfort, and really beautiful sound quality.
Great tuning. Well worth the money and you and your team deserve to make a proper profit on designing, sourcing components and puttinf all of thia togther.
BTW, im using the Omega with a set of Zeos' Magia cables terminated in 4.4
Great combination
Question for you: how many other expensive headphones do you have?
Great video...!!! An interesting rundown of what actually occurs when you take on the task of building your own headphones which are meant for the marketplace...!!! Congratulations & March On...!!!
Definitely gonna make a pair when you open source them
This is indeed a very interesting project.
Only thing I don't get is why did you decide to only do 4 batches? So many things learned about manufacturing and just stop after a year? give it some revision and keep making headphones 🙂
It's not out of the question that he'll make another headphone in the future, but right now his focus is just on this one. That's what he said in one of his earlier videos.
I would love to make a lower-cost headphone in the future but yeah, the focus is on this project at the moment and the lessons along the way.
I personally think making a headphone from scratch and you having to outsource most of the work, to make a profit on the first batch is pretty amazing. I've seen a lot of first runs make a loss due to set up costs and unknown failures.
Since this is the first time you have done this it is expected there would be some revenue leakage on learnings. You need to just look at it as an educational expense. Now for your future batches and projects you will use the correct manufactures and the learning is priceless and your profits will be better. Good going!
So..............................how do I order the wrecked parts from you so I can make my own?
Just put in my preorder for batch 2, love what you are and F the haters
I know the answer is "because, internet" but I still don't understand people complaining about the cost of things they don't want and will never buy at any price (other than free I guess...). I suppose some of them think they're doing some lord's work to save another person from the cost... but by now you have to know you absolutely are not doing that.
Hello Doug,....I knew the rubber behind you was probably for the headphones! I received #0101 and thus far (still needs more burn-in to be fair to others that I have in my collection and listen to regularly) they are sounding SWEEEET! Hey brother, I wouldn't mind one of the rubber headphone "holders" ....I can hack through it to make them fit. Also, since anyone buying these will already have their own set of cables (mine are 11 feet long and I listen to them through my V281 sitting on my sofa) maybe you should consider offering the cables as an option? Just a thought. Again,... would love one of the foam inserts and would be glad to pay shipping. BTW, nice touch including the personalized "note" with the Omegas, it was greatly appreciated! Thx again.
Random question, are you using a Shure KSM32, or is that a KSM 42?
the 42 😄
Damn. For a video titled "What it really costs to build a headphone", you could've at least stated what the cost of materials per pair of headphones is. It feels omitted almost intentionally.
I break down the entire cost in the video... $382.33 is the materials cost per headphone.
Is there a way to listen to these for free before I buy them? Maybe an upcoming event
CanJam socal! I'll be there with units.
You have some very unique sound-absorbing material lining the walls.
For those who have one, how have you found the durability? I'm not extremely hard on my headphones but I've had one fall from their stand a time or two.
So it's not a super scientific test, but I took an early b-stock pair with me on vacation for a week, so it made it through airports, shuttle busses, suitcases, and then onto a cruise ship, where I wore them pretty much every day, and sometimes took them with me in to port, to beaches and things.
Still daily driving that pair right now, at my desk.
I can comment on specifically these aspects that make them pretty durable:
There's a hard resin epoxy holding the 3.5mm jack in place, the drivers are hot-glued in place, but are *very* hard to remove now (we've been testing a specific driver in different cups recently), the headband yoke extension and cap, and the locking ring on the 3.5mm jack and secured with red lock-tite.
I own a pair. They feel solid enough to me. I have no concerns about a floor bounce. I'm not about to hurl them against a wall like a rage monster that just lost a round of COD, nor am I about to throw them out into a busy road to see how they handle being run over by cars and/or trucks. Respect your money, and treat them appropriately, and I reckon they should last a decent chunk of a lifetime.
Worldwide ship or just only in NA ? (cuz Im in Southeast Asia...Can I order this?)
Building a headphone is really expensive... that is unless you're a big company doing it in China then it's like 10 bucks for a headphone that's got 300$ MSRP. So ultimately made in USA is what's killing this offer, especially for a first headphone of some youtuber who doesn't have renowned trusted brand in terms of audio tech.
I mean honestly profiting on a first product, first batch is pretty damn impressive.
people often bitch about the cost of a product but they don't take in account the R&D, labor to build, customer support before and after the sale, warranty, and shipping. I often say to customers, shipping is free for customers but it's not free for the seller. lol...
Which amplifier/sound card can you recommend for your headphone?
He replied with "tubes" in the last video
Almost anything. I would get the fiio k11 or ifi zen dac.
Atom amp 2
Is it possible to convert it to a closed back? Can you try that?
No the FR would get all messed up. It would need to be an entirely different model.
@@liamhenderson3958 You are right. Ventilation, construction, and a driver's seat may be suitable for something open to the back. Thank you and I wish you a happy day.
This especially driver cannot be used in a closed version of the Omega without massive impact on FR. Some other ones would be far easier.
Honest question from someone considering the Omega: these or the Modhouse Tungsten?
You can drive these with anything and they sound amazing. The Tungsten? More "challenging".
You ended up making a headphone? Dang, I can barely make cereal in the morning 😂
If it's any consolation I stay so busy now I have no idea what I ate for breakfast lol
Hoping one of these makes it to CanJam NY 2025! Would love to give them a listen
When will you open source this I'm getting the driver's, soldering iron and 3d printer can you just open source it I'll skip a few parts and 3d printer all plessseeeee
At the end of batch 4 when I stop production I'm open sourcing the designs.
@@DMS3TV Ok ill wait for my birthday to get the parts instead of christmas
are the first cups from Zelta?
It is a pass for me, I am sticking to my Hifiman and sennheiser, sorry no hate here, sound and comfort "MIGHT" be great but it just doesn't look that appealing to me IMHO, also staying with my IEM's collaborated with Crinacle, I wish you good luck tho
So you made 10 grand in profit for 3 months of assembly time and you think that's a bad return? Considering that subsequent batches will be even quicker and take no development investment that seems like a pretty great starting off point.
Batch 1 Owner ! Loving them ! :)
This is how realize why grados are made the way they are 😅
They still have no excuse for their garbage pre-soldered cable. I don't mind the build of my SR80X (especially at their price point) but I would never shell out for their more expensive models.
Having worked on 60+ headphone SKUS in my career, for what you spend on 3D printed parts, you can easily tool the parts, have massive improvements in terms of accuracy (tolerance vs nominals), part strength and reliability,, not to mention being in a totally different realm of cosmetics. Tooling the band and associated parts is not that costly and making foams and cups / headband pads to your preferred shape / density and adding branding or other features is not expensive, but gives you tons of options.
But you need to commission someone for each stage of a supply chain that uses tooling (he has no training as a machinist). 3D printing only has one, so the labour is demonstrably cheaper. The labour is the majority of the cost.
The big reason I use SLS parts is to save weight
What I want to see .. a closed back with a slightly better base extension. Good luck, those are hard :P
hey,.. can I get one of those headbands plzzz just the headbands
LOL that's how govt contracts are written and billed
Are you using KSM32?
To be honest, takeing all those problems is good enough you made 10k in profit for the first bach so keep it going cuz its quite a hard and nice thing you are trying to do id like to support you at this but my most expensive headphone were edition xs at 282$ soo :))) its out of my league but good luck and keep up the good work.
Only peeve about it is the same as the most common pricing practice which is the 99 thing like, I know it's psychology and stuff but cmon.
Just a small and personal gripe for an otherwise awesome product and story.
Measurements?
there's measurements in the previous omega vid, but I've also published them on twitter. (cant post links in youtube comments)
is the headphone open source, seems like a pretty cool project.
He said he's gonna open source it one year after its release, iirc
How do you order custom colors for the aesthetic center piece?
It's not set up yet but will be in a few weeks
It depends what do you want. It can costs from 5 up to more than 100.000 USD….it is the same answer for about everything that you can manufacture. From a needle up to a rocket…😂
Anyone else watch the vid to the end hoping for an Easter egg?
It was just my void of a soul leaking into the video
Trying to think of a reason NOT to order these with a purple insert.
Very hard to justify $1k
Why couldn't the next batch stay at the same price if the first one was already profitable with so many additional costs?
The price is returning to MSRP. Batch one was sold 10% off for early-adopters. It's not just me here too. There's other peoples jobs that rely on this project.
£1k is absolutely hard to justify if your personal financial situation makes it a difficult purchase. In such a situation you absolutely shouldn't even be considering purchasing these, or any other similarly priced headphones. I suspect there are much more important regular outgoings in your life that should be prioritised.
If, however, your personal financial circumstances are such that your disposable income makes a headphone purchase in the £1k range viable without significant sacrifice, then it is absolutely justifiable.
What you meant to say, I'm sure, is that these headphones are not for you because you cannot personally justify the purchase - and that your personal circumstance and experience are applicable to precisely you and no-one else and, as such, you have no say over what is or is not justifiable to anyone else.
Also, the concept of "early-bird" pricing is not new - this won't be the only time you encounter it.
Now we can just link this video when people assume this is cheap to create and you have large margins.
PS: Framework + Fedora = ♥️
I was expecting this video somehow.