TBC Phase 1 Loot Priority Discussion: Part 2
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- Опубликовано: 13 май 2021
- Intended to be a single video of 90mins or so, but yeah.... needed to be split into 2 parts xD. Part 2 covers Gruul's Lair and Magtheridon loot tables aiming to provide some discussion surrounding where guild management may lean toward for well thought out loot distribution via a loot council system.
By Boss:
2:45 - High King Maulgar
16:45 - Gruul
42:55 - Magtheridon
Higher Profile Items:
8:23 - Tier 4 Shoulder Tokens
17:36 - Gronn-Stitched Girdle
23:33 - Dragonspine Trophy
34:05 - Bloodmaw Magus Blade
51:33 - Magtheridon's Head
58:55 - Tier 4 Chest Tokens
Spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/... 
Игры
Error on my part regarding the S1 Gavel - it's honor in S3 not S2 so disregard that caveat. I still think if you're being strict on class prio, you put blood maw on warlocks and mage first over what is likely your 2nd OT; but if your prot pally is your MT or 1st OT maybe that changes your perspective, there's definitely a lack of options outside of the Gladiator Weapons for Prot Pala, so you need to compromise at some point if Glad weapons aren't possible for your Prot Paladin.
I'm glad your corrected that. But also I don't like the idea of "we won't give this to you because you can just arena for it". You say oh just wait for season 2, but how many players are going to be happy with that rationale? Unless a piece of gear is farmable via honor, imagine the anger that your guildmates will direct towards the loot council when they tell them "You should just arena for that weapon" as if it's available to everyone. There is immense value in getting something *right now* vs 4-5 months later.
#1 If you have a world beater Fury warrior.. single best person to give it to
#2 BM hunter if your Fury Warrior is not a 95-100 parser
#3 your other 1-3 BM hunters
#4 your Feral DPS/OT (mainly OT soon to be MT for threat lead)
#5 totem Twisting Enhance Shaman
#6 Rogue/Ret
@@d0k0night The irony of expecting Protection Paladins to grind a PvP weapon, not the DPS classes who can actually PvP and obtain an equally good weapon.
I actually question whether this guy plays the game, saying Elemental Shaman (?!) and Boomkins (?!) should take a main hand sword... anyone who's played the game for 10 minutes knows they can't use swords, surely.
@@d0k0night Yea this is a bit silly of an argument as you can also flip the argument on all the other dps classes by telling them to just "do arena" so no prio on that weapon since everyone can "just do arena"? PvP rewards should rarely be brought up in LC unless they already have the weapon or are basically already there with the rating.
Any idea how good Eye of Magtheradon would be for Aflliction Warlocks? Since the +hit talent in the Affliction tree only affects Affliction spells and not Destruction spells (i.e. Shadowbolt) I imagine Warlocks gearing for ~6% hit instead of the spell hit cap and thus getting a decent amount of their Shadowbolts resisted.
From what I know affli locks don't cast many shadow bolts in the early phases but if they do, I can imagine it being decent for them also.
Great work. Would very much appreciate a phase 2 discussion prior to release of T5 on live servers.
Can you link this spreadsheet when you are done? Would be very helpful for my guild as well mate. Ty
For sure, will make it public ASAP :)
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CduNzYk1H8Gie_L8ZAc7EDRzNEm5wGGmhR2mxluaopE/edit?usp=sharing
When you do the other raids, could you please ctrl click them so we can see the looks as you go through?
Sure, I'll keep that in mind, will try zoom in a bit too for mobile users :)
Where can I find your version of AtlasLoot?
Hey, do you know any other items that are highly sought after and don't drop as often, like Dragonspine Trophy?
I've got a video for that coming soon with some comedy (hopefully), so i won't ruin it here just yet, but keep an eye out :)
Will you be making a sheet and video guide for phase 2 and onward? I found this sheet and guide for phase 1 extremely helpful!
was wondering the same thing, been looking at phase 2 loot in our guild this week and there is no resorce out there atm for phase 2 prio, would love a vid in this style for SCC and TK.
Please let me know when I can get the spread sheet
Thanks again for making this video too. I saw both from start to finish, I hope you'll do for the phases after too when the time comes. :)
Eye of Magtheridon is bis for shadow priest. It procs from the misses from there secondary debuffs like shadow weaving and misery.
Yeah good shout, wasn't aware of this til a commenter yesterday, first one probably goes to SP given that prot paladins likely aren't gearing too aggressively super early on prior to mostly phase 1 bis.
Now this is my kind of ASMR, thanks for the great work knot quality videos!
season 2 does not bring season 1 items to honor, they just remove rating req from them and still costs arena points, s1 gear is honor gear in S3
If you get to keep arena points through the season the point somewhat still stands though, in that you'd want your pala to prepare for buying it if they don't get anything else.
@@kjeksomanen arena points reset on season so no you will not be able to buy it immediately in season 2.
In regards to gladiator gavel, in original TBC season 1 weapons weren't purchaseable with honor until season 3. What source says that they'll be available phase 2?
Yeah that was a mistake. I remembered wrong on the seasonal gear going to honor that quickly, my bad.
Dragon spine trophy to feral tank if they are the main OT?
Feral tank would be bottom prio but if you get enough of them, you would want your bear to have one but as a feral tank I'd assume you won't get one. I don't as a feral main.
Really appreciate this work you have done. This is key information! Great work
Your thoughts on Eye of Magtheridon trinket have caused a little discussion for us. Currently, it's an item that our shadow priests want, as with the high SP and the fact they have a lot more instances for it to proc (on Weaving resists for example). Contrary to what you are saying, our prot palas don't seem to be overly interested in it, as they would rather something like Icon for more consistent threat gen rather than relying on rng. Also from a very quick look on paladin discord, they don't seem too interested in it either.
If you have any more data on it, I'd be interested in looking at it
I'm unsure why people are low on it. There is no internal cool down and prot paladins consistently have resists as part of their gameplay.
Its surprising to hear that you couldn't find much rapport for it on the Paladin discord. It's exceptional for them. Higher base spell damage and will have far greater uptime than icon. Controllability is a knock on it for sure but it's nowhere near a big enough reason to be low on it, over the course of a fight I expect it to be the highest TPS trinket for Prot paladins at least til Zul'Aman if not longer.
@@KnotxD thanks for the reply. I'll see what our tankadins think. Do you know if it can proc from consecrate?
@@richardplummer8750 Yep, definitely works with consecration (haven't tested subsequent ticks but does work on initial cast tick) , as long as the spell can be resisted by a target, it will proc Eye for 170 SP. It also procs off the spells that work with melee hit but still are flagged as spellcasts such as Avengers shield.
@@KnotxD I read somewhere this week it doesn't proc on subsequent consecration ticks. Even when hit capped there's still a 1% chance of spells getting resisted for casters. There's plenty of priest discussion on eye of mag vs quag's eye, where eye of mag outperforms quag on longer fights >1min. Spell power is the single highest stat for spriests, and is valuable enough to the point where even green +shadow wrath gear gets used. So eye of mag should at least be mentioned for spriests, even if they're 2nd in line for it behind a prot paladin. It remains bis for spriests in all of P2/T5, until darkmoon crusade.
Need this spreadsheet in my collection! *_* When do you think you have had the time to "pretty" it up? :D I made my guilds spreadsheet with all the info about bis, consumes etc. With a loot council part, bench and absense counter etc. This would be an amazing addation! Can't wait to look at it :)))
Probably sometime tonight/tomorrow, will make sure to post it in the descriptions and perhaps in a community post too once it's ready
@@KnotxD Amazing! Incredibly amazing stuff you have done here! :)
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CduNzYk1H8Gie_L8ZAc7EDRzNEm5wGGmhR2mxluaopE/edit?usp=sharing
good video, just adding that survival hunter benefits equally if not better than rogue with DST, it also increases the exposed weakness uptime by a considerable amount.
Indeed, I intended survival to be included as top prio, sorry if that was unclear. I think all hunters are the correct call if you're looking at it solely through the lens of class
Do you have the T5 version of the sheet done yet?
Will be posting a video this week for P2 with a spreadsheet to follow soon after :)
Are you going to update this now that DST Specifically, is 3 times as good raw damage wise for warriors and rogues over hunters palas and nearly enhance. Your prio is way off as it litterally has the biggest dps gainers (Fury warriors) that do the most extra damage, while being the highest DPS class after hunters atm, near the last prio on it ?
Fury sim was over valuing DST by double in their sims. Its 25 dps for them after the author corrected. Hunters around 20. The only significant issue with the information I had at the time of this video is that ret pala will use DST for longer and do not want Tsunami at all.
@@KnotxD Even so that still corrects the fact that warriors are outright better in every way with it, have an easier time to utilize it fully and therefor should have higher priority.
In no way should Hunter have prio just cause they do the most DPS in general, when the other is a stronger option ?
We know that melee weaving and steady shot timing is not something any of the hunters are gonna be doing to anyway near the level a warrior is able to still do his same old rotation so even the lower sim would be even lower in real life. So the video is still hell of misleading in that regard ?
@@KnotxD I would love to see this data too, as simu made a better video that still showcased warriors and rogues far out competing hunters, except if they were doing shenanigans like melee weaving, which they wont be on nearly every single fight of the expansion ?
Then it would be sub 10 dps for hunters and 20 dps as stated by you for warriors and 20 or more for rogues.
Hello. Are you working on the tier 5 prio list as well, perhaps before launch?
I'll do the phase 2 loot prio sooner to phase 2 launching, we still need to get more sim tools to be more accurate also.
Sheet please :D
Where are the dps simulations for dst I'd like to take a look at the raw damage output between classes
Warriors > Rogue > Hunters is the conclusion between those classes.
Don't listen to Chris Pratt. Go look at the updated numbers in fight club. Realize % upgrade is NOT going to determine prio. Nobody is giving DST to a f*king warrior over the hunters.
@@harmstrongg you must have some shit warriors in your guild if you have this kinda attitude towards this. take a deep breath, not every guild is as shit as yours, some people are actually good at fury and rogue and utilize upgrades.
@@harmstrongg It's definitely not the solo determinate. There are plenty of other factors that go into question when giving out a trinket of this caliber. Can you expect them to continue playing? Do they actively help guildies? Delta% dps gain? Imo give it to your best performing physical dps, if it's a rogue warrior or hunter.
@@harmstrongg However, I'm pretty sure if you were knit picking you'd give it to whomever gains the most dps for the raid. For example If a hunter gains 30 dps, but a rogue gains 50, I'd prioritize it to a rogue as the raid's overall dps benefits more from it.
Can someone tell me the name of the loot addon?
Atlas loot
@@KnotxD aaaah I remember thank you :)
where's the doc at ;) ty ily
Held up a little trying to get some other stuff ready too, will try get it done asap bud, ly2
t4 chest and shoulders are bis until t6 for prot pallies.. again, not sure where you're getting the idea that its crap itemization for them.
I said the opposite. Non-tier itemisation sucks, hence why you give a pretty high prio to prot paladins.
Any chance of this in a spreadsheet please
Soon! Just a bit behind on some things I need to edit etc in the short term, will definitely be available for launch
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CduNzYk1H8Gie_L8ZAc7EDRzNEm5wGGmhR2mxluaopE/edit?usp=sharing
@@KnotxD you sir are a champion
Mag head q-reward. Its pretty much same for feral tanks there as on the tiers. Its 2nd bis, bis together with Kara rep-ring, and way ahead of 3rd ring and so huge it trumps all other specs options even if its bis for them. Same upgrade as the agi ring for hunter as their like 15th option as the tank ring for feral vs their 3rd option. And it lasts until p5 as you said. It should really be a easy option..
The value of it is pretty low raid perspective though, hence why its hard to simply go by longevity. Its not *that* far ahead of the 3rd ring that it makes or breaks whether the feral is going to be sturdy or not - 400 armor and 3 stamina versus 2 defense over the badge ring for example - at the armor values bears have 400 armor is nice but not crazy by any means.
Meanwhile, there are zero non-hit rings for Agi-users in Phase 1 outside of Recalcitrant. IMO as long as your feral tank(s) get the ring before Phase 2 progress where the 400 armor might be meaningful, then its no big deal. Likewise, it's not a bad thing to give this to your feral tank first, it will last them for ages, either works.
@@KnotxD Just rechecked my notes on it, and I kinda agree with you with hunters at least. Yeah the hit of other items just overvalues their options per piece, so I could also argue hunters at leats could be prio:ed. But looking at other classes, specially casters (holy pala and resto druid also has it as a solid option) thier 3rd or 4th option is pretty much the same, and if they get hit from other sources there are way better options.
But just checking raw values (dps/EP w/e) and removing hit from the table, hunters (specially survival) are really close to bears.
The thing with the ring for bears, is that you could easier go with exp gloves, chess-belt etc without loosing to much armor or overcapping armor with priest/shaman buff.
THAT said again, its 2.1 itemization, only p1, its 100% dropchance on the quest-item, it dosnt really matter in the end. You will get prolly close to 20 kills before p5 is here.
When talking about Bloodmaw Magus-Blade you mention that Boomkins are a feasible option for the weapon- however we boomies can't use swords :( Not sure if this is a change in TBC but to my knowledge druids can't use swords (Same as Shadowpriests which you also mention)
Maybe I was tongue-tied or its not very clear, but i referenced boomies, eles and shadow priets on the magus blade in regards to Nathrezim Mindblade from Kara. Those specs definitely can't use swords, thats why you may want to be more generous to boomies/eles/SP with mindblade in Kara, because Magus Blade exists for mages and locks.
The mag trinket is for shadow priest first
how do you feel about the spellstrike now that the crit meta gem is available at the start ?
Definitely loses some value, especially as non tailoring. From what I can tell the warlock sim sheet that's available on the discord still has it as the best option, unsure if that assumed set bonus or not though.
Is it though? Has that been confirmed?
I'm not sure anyone's been able to really confirm if the crit meta is available from launch?
According to the collaboration between Fight Club Discord + Hunter Discord + Rogue Discord, the biggest DPS gain from DST is actually Warriors > Rogue > Hunters. You'd have to take the delta% (the %dps gained from their individual dps) value into consideration when evaluating which physical damage dealer is most deserving of this item in terms of RAID dps gained. There are ofc many other factors to take into consideration when deciding who it should go to outside of purely dps gained.
Max copium
@@harmstrongg How is this copium?
Want to provide an argument with some data to back yourself up? Instead of just being like "hur dur hunter prio."
@@harmstrongg I wouldn't be suprised if my rogue was even out dps'ing your hunter currently.
Interesting thing about Mulgar caster belt, that it can be better for arcane mages than the belt of blasting. You gain 400+ mana over 1% crit, damage is pretty much the same 1 or 2 sp difference towards Mulgar belt. And the hit is pointless. Both sockets are identical. Arcane mages get the sp back from the amount of int that the belt has.
DST depends on what your looking at. Short term yes hunters getting dst makes sense if your looking down the road hunters take dst off in bt where as enh, rogues, and fury never take it off.
What do hunters replace dst with
@@simmot5213 Madness off illidan same with arms warriors (Not 100% on ret havent looked into it enough.)
Hunters do not replace DST until BNS (M'uru). Until then you use DST+Madness.
@@Randomnamegoeshere thanks, basically it's bis then.. 2nd to last boss of the last raid tier lol
@@Randomnamegoeshere statement still stands then rogues fury and enh never take it off. It depends 100% on how you value loot to players. Looking to the very end game those classes will never take it off so I can see guilds valuing that over giving hunters the first 3 and giving them to the other classes first.
From watching both videos, I’ll hate to be a boomkin in your guild lmao
Haha, I'll vote to treat the boomkin better than strictly sticking to just the class context
I think you misspoke, I didn't hear feral is #1 on DST
Yeah now I can't share this video with my guild
Can you make a Tier 5 loot prio video soon? Lot of items to go through and it might be right around the corner!!
Some monster content youre putting out mate
Have you seen Simonize's video on DST yet? He has very some very interesting thoughts on the trinket and which classes it is best for.
ruclips.net/video/nkzItWU13kc/видео.html
I'll take a look!
Really interesting breakdown, I think he's right in terms of the percentages of real player performance; that said, given the information he explained, I think I'd still keep my personal recommendation in the same order. Fury maybe deserves a bump ahead of Enhance though. The rogue versus hunter thing is awkward. I referenced how Rogue's definitely get the most individual gain but their uptime is what is problematic for me versus hunters. Hunters are just 'safe' - interestingly he left out survival but theres reason to believe survival may have the largest DPS contribution from DST from a raid perspective - though I understand why as the survival sim thats been released seems to have a few things to be fixed still.
@@KnotxD Thanks for the commentary!
@@KnotxD been an update on the dst front thoughts? ruclips.net/user/postUgwG8VEufxzAUTn0JY14AaABCQ
@@KnotxD Warriors deal more damage than rogues and they're both handicapped by the same thing (being melee). Why would you put Rogues ahead then? Sim sheets show warriors get more from this since haste gives warrior more rage, unlinke rogues which it does almost nothing to their energy, I'd think Warrior is over Rogues.
bms have 50% haste - nacked. dragonspine is a trinket they will replace. your melee dps won't get a chance to replace it with other items later because you will favor your pumper hunters.
while it is a boost in Phase1. It is something that raiders should really consider for the long run. (and before people accuse one for making such a comment to be a melee dps enthusiast. Nope I'm a hunter myself)
I mean you already have issues when heroism pops or even just rapid fire. The GCD stays on one second no matter what. A 0,6 sec cast Steady shot won't change a thing about that.
Yes it has a place on the upper 1% when people properly gauge the gcd, cast times, autoshot cd and autoshot cast timing. Just because ppl know that such a level of gameplay exists ... well to be frank: there is no guarantee that - every hunter in your raid - will be able to bring that level of performance.
I hear you, very good points, but you're simplifying the melee side a fair bit whilst expanding deeply on hunters. Rogues won't replace DST, Enhances might not (later phase sims lacking, but good reason to suspect they will replace it eventually); everyone else will replace DST given that we have the twice-nerfed version in 2.4.3 and most classes, including Hunter, replace it in Phase 3 or 4. In the case of enhance and warriors it *might* (lack of sims) not be til Magister's Terrace/SWP in Phase 5, but even so, theres alot of gruul's lair between launch and Phase 3, let alone 4 and 5.
I personally wouldn't just dunk it on all 3-4 hunters automatically, I think theres several factors people should consider with high profile items beyond just the short term gain. But if we are specifically looking at class bias for raid performance, I think you're definitely giving DST to Hunters first. I won't pretend that the haste doesn't hit a ceiling at times for BM hunters but I suspect there will be so many WAs to simplify most of the complexities that most serious hunters will utilise the procs well 95+% of the time.
As mentioned in the video, if your guild is less extreme in goals/approach etc, theres not too much reason to look too closely at class priority on these universally utilised items, go for the player. You raised good points raised for sure even though we disagree, I appreciate you highlighting them.
Pretty confident you can make a case for fury war up with the rogue on DST, they do more damage than the rogue, ret, arms, enhance, feral.
imagine suggesting the TANK to get 2050 arena rating in a caster heavy comp which favors mages/locks/priests/rogues/druids..... bloodmaw magus and fang will be prot pal bis just because blizzard added in rating requirements on the arena weapons..
Agreed, Im a Prot Paladin, I was planning on Arena for a wep so as not to steal from mages/locks. But Paladins are dogs in all arena comps, let alone when you gear and profession for tanking (engi and ench).
So Blizzard have really given us the middle finger.
Also we cant buy Season 1 arena gear in Season 2 for honour.
So ill pass Blood Magus, and ask for the first Fang of the Leviathan.
enhance wants shoulders and gloves for T4. waste walker sims much higher with chest and helm
Much higher? Could you link me the sim+set's results you're mentioning? When I went to the Enhance sheet and discord, several combinations of wastewalker and zero wastewalker (grips + malefic) appeared extremely close but maybe I missed something.
@@KnotxD depends what you define as extremely close or "much higher"
its about a 25 dps increase to have the gloves over the chest.
this is according to the shaman discord simulation sheet and its pre-set p1 bis vs cyclone chest and wastewalker gloves (everything else the same as p1 bis)
could go deftness and mask i guess but thats still 17dps less and it requires kara loot + 50 badges instead of just using dungeon gear
i fucking love you
Ah yes. DST, the guild breaker, lmao.
DST prio (IMO): BM Hunters > Enh Shamans = Swords Rogues > Fury Warriors > Arms Warrior = Retribution Paladin > Feral Druid.
Haste is the best stat for Retribution Paladins after hit/exp cap and 30% crit (unbuffed), however big haste procs can cause you to fall out of your Seal Twisting rotation which is a big dps loss. Not saying it's impossible, far from it ...but it's better to give to other physical DPS'ers first.
Good point about the seal twisting difficulty with haste procs. I think your order is fine, the difference between enhance and rogue to me was decided simply by the simmed dps gains for each, so definitely on a similar page.
This is actually only the case if ret had 2 way twisting which we don’t. DST shouldn’t interfere with twisting unless your weapon is too fast.
Rogue and Fury definitely get the most out of DST. It isn't just white damage it amplifies but yellow damage because of energy via combat potency and more sword spec procs via the increased attack speed. Fury gains more rage via rage feedback mechanic and more heroic strike usage which leads to more offhand hits because of heroic strike queue. Dragonmaw also has no Internal Cooldown so DST raises your uptime on dragonmaw as well making it even better for fury. Enhance gets more white hit damage, and same for hunter, their yellow damage is not amplified (windfury imbue has internal cooldown).
Arms gets the least impact from DST out of every class as it interrupts their rotation with slam too much. It will bring their attack speed under 2.5 which means they'll have to use heroic strike as a rage dump instead and have to very carefully manage rage as they won't be getting rage from their auto anymore.
Hunters also have the easiest time replacing DST with the Black temple rep trinket, Tsunami being good for them, and Madness being good for them. Madness is awkward on warriors if they have a good amount of the appropriate plate gear due to ArP capping.
I'm also unsure what you mean by hunters have the highest uptime on DST. DST has an internal cooldown, what fight besides Illidan is there that Melee aren't attacking a mob for over 30 seconds?
@@KnotxD Do not forget that no matter how we look at it, the more haste for enh, the bigger the uptime of flurry is, which leads to more UR uptime. That translates to group dps increase.
@@wombat5846 Surely UR uptime will be 100% no matter what, as much as I want rogues / enhance to have prio on this
Liars tongue are bis for enh
omg I've watched / listened to these loot videos four times now and only today did I notice, from his macros, that Knot is some sort of degenerate RPer.
Lmao, the binds are for the intros, like wave etc.
DST hunter prio?! u should be ashamed of urself Knot...
my gosh you dont have a clue about dst sir
Imagine giving a weapon to casters that can easily get one from arena, and making your tank PvP for theirs...