Thanks for tuning into the weekly breakdowns of True Detective Season 4 and the throwback breakdowns of Season 1. 😊 It means a lot. The finale was definitely a mixed bag, but there were some real good moments amongst it. I'm really interested to see what you all thought of the finale. Let me know your thoughts below! 🤓
This was a waste of your analytical skill lol. I’d love to see you do something meaty like that AMC mini series starring Jared Harris, The Terror. Also a frozen north supernatural mystery, but one based off of a novel by the Legendary Dan Simmons.
I agree with your points about the rushed things in the finale. While using supernatural elements added to horror throughout the show, I felt the creator was obsessed with using them and even included Liz in the loop of seeing stuff despite denying them for Navaro. I don't mind adding vision to some characters but when you finally weigh in to land on the reality at the end, all of that visionary sightseeing (like a one-eyed polar bear) seems unnecessary. Overall was a good finale with the narrative of the season.
Yeah his development was definitely the best. He had the moral dilemma and the detective work. I found his final shot so haunting when he was next to his son knowing what he did to his own father and the fact he has to live with that forever
@@ceciliaSF-TX it's this kind of attitude that cheapens the series...since when is True Detective men against women, men better than women etc what is good or expected ?? Ridiculous.
@@autk It does cheapen the series when Peter is given all the credit for solving the murders. I not the one pitting the sexes against other, way too many comments have done just that & usually minimizing the female roles. Peter was a likable character & his path in life will be tough due to that fact his father was not a good man.
Rust quoting Ledoux YEARS later and truly believing the philosophy... DOPE writing! BUUUUT....... Greasy-ass, Raymond "we got Sandor Glegane at home" Clark saying it....? Total dog shit. I legit blurted out "THAT'S....... fucking stupid" 🤦
@@Gupi_777 I've watched every season, I say it in jest because I'm irritated with the writers and show runner. Intentionally abusing season one folklore for interest in a deliberate attempt to bait and switch the viewers wasn't cool, it cheapens Season One and that's offensive to myself and obviously legions of season one stans. It wasn't necessary, they had a great location and beautiful cinematography, some good acting here and there, Jodi F Foster and a not bad story with some work IF they had left the Rust's father narrative, the spiral Cult symbolism and the Tuttles etc out of Night Country.. because they crapped on it.. blatant red herrings for cheap plot devices because the writing was weak? Nonsense. Do better.
If the Coast Guard could find Julia THAT quickly,Navarro would have been found. I think Navarro pulled a "Rose " and moved away from Ennis,like Rose moved away from her job after finding it pointless.
"If the Coast Guard could find Julia THAT quickly" - with Rose making it a point to release the air out of Hanks lungs before the body was dumped I think explains how they found Julia quickly. Hank was specifically prepared to sink. Makes me kind of wonder how Rose seemed to be the expert in making people disappear, and known as an expert to others in that Navarro instructed Pete to go to Rose about the bodies. 😉
Rose knew to cut Hank and get the air out of his lungs so he doesn't float back up. Rose has done this before, lol. She didn't have a problem with Pete showing up with the body of Hank it seems. She's good. Doesn't judge what is none of her biz and just offers to help.
The only one doing actual detective work was Peter. Without his convenient all seeing internet skills that the CIA would envy this story would have stalled in the first episode.
If by a way of a miracle, we get a season 5 for the love of God, PLEASE do the following: - Dial it back on the supernatural - Bring it back to 8 episodes - Either truly connect to another season or dont. I'd rather they have no connection to any other season, if it means we just get a great story and solid writing. Dont shoehorn it - the numerous plot holes have to go
Kayla’s abrupt change of heart made no sense. I even wondered if she was the one catfishing Hank, to get money out of him. Wheeler whistling Twist & Shout and then that dude that split from ice fishing was whistling it too. I thought we’d finally see the accident & Twist & Shout was playing, but nope, just glass crunching🤷♀️
They had to have written multiple endings. What happened to the polar bear? I thought the men died before they went out on the ice, why would they look so scared if they just froze to death? Why would they bite themselves? Why would someone write, “we are all dead” on the whiteboard? We have no idea about Navarro‘s mom, why Julia, fold her clothes before walking out onto the ice, even though she was not forced to. So incredibly terrible I have no words. Except those.
I think you're supposed to assume the spirit of Annie was out on the ice and terrified them as they froze to death. The whole "she took them" thing the cleaning lady talked about.
The vigilante women wrote that on the white board. It's explained many times that hypothermia can cause people to do all sorts of irrational things, such as self-harm, biting oneself, 'paradoxical stripping' etc. People who commit suicide do all sorts of things that are "tidy" right before checking out. I don't think it's strange at all that Julia would fold her clothes, as a way of leaving them in order. Also, for the same reason that the women left the men's clothes neatly folded, in case the Sedna Goddess decided "not to take them," aka, they don't freeze to death, the clothes would be waiting for them in a neat pile when they returned.
Navarro goes through a strange episode on the ice and her ears bleed - but instead of dying like the other characters she somehow comes back and saves Liz from drowning - and her hearing is just fine....
Yes, thank you. Made no sense that Navarro would kill herself by walking out onto the ice. It just didn't feel complete. Her being alive and exploring herself makes more sense. Although Navarro with Liz at the end, I'm not sure if it's liz remembering Navarros spirit or what? It's definitely meant for us to think up Navarros destiny. In my ending, Navarro is alive....
The ending was powerful for me but for a reason you didn’t mention. There is an ongoing mystery of large numbers Indigenous American women disappearing and being murdered, it’s barely talked about outside of native or women’s rights circles that this Native woman was avenged by other mostly Native women was a cathartic moment for me, I cried.
Evangeline Navarro definitely committed suicide. She had suicidal ideation many times and was constantly saying how people were calling her out there. She walked out onto the ice in a kind of trance at least two times. Once with Rose, another time with Danvers. In the finale, she tells Liz about "no longer being afraid of who was on the other side of the hatch." She's making a reference to what Raymond Clark literally did, but really, it is metaphor for her always trying to survive by clinging so tight to a metaphorical hatch, that serves to shut people out and keep her in isolation. In the finale, Navarro finally feels the calm and bravery it would take for her to simply let go and walk out into the oblivion. Knowing her Indigenous name also gives her the resolution to walk out of the darkness which was her life, towards a place of light and freedom, fully knowing who she is and fully realizing it. She quite literally does what her indigenous name means. The fact that there were sightings of her afterwards is simply because it's a common phenomenon in Ennis, that people see ghosts.
13:12 You don't 'get it' cause you are not an Indian Woman. Remember, too that Siqinnaatchiaq's own mother peeled her orange the way she did "all in a continuous stream" as Danver's tried in the end and it left that symbol on the plate. The oranges were symbolic in their own spiritual connections with their mother. Importantly, they LEFT the symbol in the same way as they LEFT the tongue ~ on purpose to connect the deaths to Annie K. in the hopes that Siginnaatchiag (or anybody) 'would make' the connection. It was "a message'. The spiral itself is a magical symbol that has been used for thousands of years by different cultures around the world and maybe too it actually has a specific meaning for the Inupiat tribe.
Does it have to be “because you’re not…” We are all humans and we’re all animals and throughout the eons we’ve all been one another. This limited thinking that “you don’t know what it’s like to be me” is what holds us all back.
This season finale turn out to be pretty bad & overall the whole season is even more disappointing than season 2 imo. For anyone that looking a far better story with similar setting & themes, I really recommend movie "Wind River" instead & maybe Fargo TV series season 1. The only thing that I missed from my predictions is Raymond Clark being the typical bad guy mad scientist, instead of a disturbed traumatized men who was taking revenge on his own colleagues. Honestly it make no sense for Raymond Clark to even go into hiding from everyone when he didn't even kill the scientists. If anything, he could go to witness protection or maybe being privately secured by Kate (Silver Sky Mining) so they can bury all of their illegal mining stuffs & closing the case permanently on who killed scientists. Everyone suddenly are so dumb somehow, especially in a blizzard. None of that mass psychosis from water poisoning too, just actual supernatural shenanigans. I still don't get how the native ladies came to a conclusion that ALL of the scientists killed Annie K. It was at best purely conjecture from their POVs, just like how they blamed the mine people before it. Annie K found footage also very different with what being shown to us in flashback scenes. She was being grabbed immediately before even destroyed research stuffs. I would argue this lame season is a lame ripoffs of "Wind River" & a bit of "Fargo" too but losing all of its meaningful thematic storytelling IRL problems, especially when it's not grounded & gone supernatural haywire. I would argue it may possibly insulting to the natives too. It's practically a comical storytelling of another female empowerment where all woman are victims (but "strong") while all men are bad or deserve to get shieate on. As expected, the season 1 supposed connections are meaningless baits to attract fandom. I am not even talking about many plot holes & inconsistency of characters behaviors.
About the women figuring out the whole crime based on that star shaped tool, yeah that was dumb. It’s based on them knowing what we know, but falls apart if you think more than a second. They basically did all this shit on an improbable hunch.
I think the simpler nitpick is why the hatch in the floor? They could have made it a regular hatch. Who would know anything was wrong about it, it's a research station. If this was about securing it against espionage, a hidden hatch feels both too much and not enough.
this guy doesnt get it. ThinkStory is better. Beatrice literally explained there's a female diety they believe serves judgement and yet here he is saying its Annie. Infact I thhink Julia believed in that diety too hence how she folded her clothes and shoes before going in
I’ve enjoyed these videos, thank you! I agree with pretty much everything you said about the finale. I loved this series up until the last episode, which I felt was a huge letdown with too many unanswered questions. After reading an interview with Issa Lopez, I don’t think she had all the answers either. Half of the mysteries were just random red herrings, and when pressed by the interviewer for more information, she was basically like, “it’s up for interpretation!” Pretty weak.
Thanks a lot. Glad you enjoyed the videos. And ah, thanks for sharing info on the interview. That's good to know. Odd that it came across like she wasn't even aware
The acting was great! Love Jodie in this role & Kali did great. I refused to get bogged down w/comparisons to the first season. The ending wasn’t perfect, it didn’t have to be, it was entertaining & that is all I hoped for. This viewer is happy.
Great, but it was the writers and show runners who deliberately entangled the entire season 4 narrative with season one folklore...they did it, the audience didn't, engage some critical thinking and assign responsibility...or just be a lemming because it serves your anti man hate narrative. 🤣
@@autk Where did you get that I hate men??? For the record, I don’t. But historically speaking, the majority of violence is done by men, that is fact. In terms of this show, who the heck cares about S1, it had its moment & it concluded its story in THAT season. Anything beyond that is just emotional reverence to S1 as S2 & S3 were not good. Sure, I am ok w/this season not doing it justice, but was that it’s objective? Doubt it. But I enjoyed this show & those who had that misgiven desire re: S1 have their panties in a wad.
@@ceciliaSF-TX it's the fault of Issa for the entanglement with Season One, she made a choice and the show runner did too, it's on them, and the man hater narrative is real throughout Season 4, unnecessary to pit women vs men, and to say most violence is perpetrated by men ignores 50% of domestic violence cases...I love women, but man haters, not so much.
@@autk I love men, but women haters not so much. In fact, not at all. To say that 50% of domestic violence is by women, wow - that is an alternative viewpoint. Let’s not forget in the first season that the SERIAL KILLER WAS A MAN! And it took many years for our heroes to solve that mystery. And in S2 & S3, mostly men doing the violence. But ok. Look, I didn’t look at this show as men vs women. Many commentators did & usually denigrated the female characters and/or the female actors. It’s really getting crazy. Bye now!
What made season 1 and 3 so good was how they developed and REDEEMED Woody Harrison and Stephen Dorff characters from younger version to older (redeemed) version. And it takes 8 EPISODES (not six) to accomplish that.
Life is random, I totally believed the bucket spill. Surprised it didn’t happen “earlier.” But that’s how life unfolds and that’s one thing I did believe. They def left some gaping holes but that’s what you get with 6 eps. Thanks for the breakdowns!
thanks for a great season of recaps! You hit the nail right on the head about one big flaw - this season really needed to be the full eight episodes - that would have allowed much more exposition about the numerous hanging threads. You also make a couple other great points - if there is going to be a tie-in to Season One then make it clear and make that a valuable part of the series - just throwing in the Tuttle name and the spiral and then NOT expanding on them is a huge flaw.And by just casually adding that to S4 you can't avoid making comparisons to S1 - when, as you point out, it's senseless to do that since they are two entirely different shows. The other issue you brought up: yeah, if it's a show about solving a crime then THAT should be the main focus of the series - way too many tangents in this season, especially with the all the personal relationships - again, if the show was eight episodes then those aspects could have been covered in more detail. It was kinda like, oops, we only have one episode left so we better cram in as much as we can and hope for the best. I have to admit I thought it was a good season - an 8/10 from me and maybe tied with S3. I wish you might have said more about Rose - definitely more going on with her than we were shown. Also, I am a big adherent to the 'Chekhov's Gun' way of fingering the culprit and I have to admit that back in Ep1 when we were shown the missing fingers I knew immediately who the killer was going to be (although getting to the 'how' took until the last episode - I thought she would somehow lure them into the 'crab freezer'). Thanks again for all the great insight!
A horrific boss covering for a coworker that commit murder. A police officer kills his father who is also a murderer and police. An old lady who clearly is an expert in dumping corpses. A gang of women who takes the law in their own hands and murder eight scientists. The one thing that makes TD S4 really stand out is the complete abscence of any kind of moral compass, e.i. : kill anyone you like - the law will look away. You gotta love this show!! 😂🤔
Ahh, nice point that Liz and Leah were on holiday. Makes me feel like they went to go visit Navarro. Would suck if she was dead, didn’t believe it but the elusiveness did seem to point to that to me.
Brilliant! TD reviews, agree 100% - like you, I'm dissapointed with the spiral symbol outcome. Was excited when Navaro & Denver looked up to the spiral in the mine, but alas - no cult links to S1.
I really liked this season. I’m not overly attached to the connections to the first season so none of that mattered to me. People who haven’t been to Alaska and don’t understand just how removed from society it is might not think it’s plausible to ignore laws the way Danvers and Navarro do, but it’s more like they’re maintaining balance or order than following the law stringently. To me the season dealt the in tension between feminine and masculine energies. Dealing with birth/death, nature and a priori knowledge instead of a posteriori: intuition vs materialism.
Wife got so mad at me when I said those women were dumb. Could have just used a Tsala truck to stay warm. The very truck they used at the end of the episode to go to the girls house 🤷🏻♂️🤣
There were so many details that were purely pointless in this show. 1. All the way back at the beginning of the first episode, all of the caribou jumping off of the cliff.... why? I mean, honestly.... why? 2. The engineer who was living at the nomad camp.... why was he afraid to talk like it was literally going to be the death of him, and why did he run?? Did he feel guilty about the part that he played in the pollution? 3. Why did Hank dump Annie's body in a place where she would be found, and not in some unknown area? 4. The trailer.... was that just like that because Raymond had a breakdown and was acting like Annie aas coming back? 5.The baby that was in the house where Danvers and Navarro shot the sociopath who beat his girlfriend to death.... what did that reveal do?? 6. The polar bear with one eye?? Did Danvers just need that reminder of her son? 7. Navarro's mum's necklace being wound in Danvers' hair in the last episode. Navarro obviously knew the significance of that, but why would Danvers? Why was it in her hair?? 8. Danvers falling through the ice!!! She and Navarro were in a facility with no heat, in the dead of winter, in the arctic! Not only should she have died, she actually got over her hypothermia in what looked like about an hour??! What was the point?? 9. And may I say that Fiona Shaw was COMPLETELY wasted! I adore her as an actress, and yet her character had no real story or real point, except to get rid of bodies and ashes, apparently.... I love her, but her whole character was useless. I mean, imagine how cool it would have been if she had been the murderer all along? There are so many other pointless dead end things, but those are the ones I can remember that really irked me. I agree that the realism that 'not every mystery can be solved' is a good touch, however, when red herrings arent even red herrings.... just pointless dead ends.... that is just really unfortunate writing....
@eval1313 well that was to make him the desperate person he was in the end. He lost all his money, was completely alone and without that he probably wouldn't have agreed to the Otis thing. I agree the show was terrible but
I could care less about leading women, I think the leads were totally fine in this show. Had no problem with it, all long as you can act then awesome. Jodi foster is a terrific actor. This season had everyone into it for sure, through out the whole season. But we have to be brutally honest the last episode was so poorly written and it’s so freaking obvious. I think everyone who said they enjoy it are truly blinded by their bias of the message that was trying to be told. Starting with the murder of Annie.. let’s really think about this scene. All of the scientists hear a commotion in the ice cave and they all come running to find a guy brutally murdering a girl who they probably can’t even tell who it is. Without hesitation these scientists jump in and start helping murder her without a bat of an eye!!? Without questioning anything!? So extremely unbelievable as a viewer. Scientists typically aren’t cold blooded murders and will always question before they do things. So that was just completely unrealistic for one.. Which brings me to the point where some people say they think Clark was lying and he alone killed Annie. Well if this is true then these 12 cleaning ladies straight up just murdered the innocent scientists… yet we’re suppose to side with the 12 cleaning ladies ? And how in the fuck does 12 cleaning ladies raid a lab, manage to load up a bunch of men in a huge truck, drive them out to the tundra and release them with not a single bit of evidence or struggle besides a freaking fingerprint on the cave door latch… so dumb. Are these cleaning women forensic experts? It just ended so damn poorly and I understand women are loving it because it portrays them as strong and independent but can we be honest this ending was completely horrible.
Overall very underwhelming ending due to the following reasons: 1. Annie, the midwife, with no formal scientific education, figuring out the top scientistic project details based on some documents. 2. She destroys years of research as if those scientific and valuable documents are not electronically saved on hard drive, cloud or some other digital format !!!! 3. She gets murdered by a group of top world class scientists with PHDs in their fields like they are professional killers. 4. A cleaning lady spills water exactly by the underground hatch opening and gets her other cleaning ladies involved and somehow they put the whole murder case together like professional detectives. 5. The cleaning ladies outsmart the scientists, and this expensive lab that’s owned by powerful and ultra wealthy Tuttle family, does not have one armed security guard! 6. The entire world and millions of cancer patients did not get to use this incredible medical breakthrough drug because of some small town in middle of nowhere wanted to have clean water. Move those hundred people to a new town maybe? 7. The overall story arch was very man hating. All the heroes were women and all the evil doers were men. A feminist extravaganza! 8. What was the deal with the polar bear? Was there a spirit involved? The show did not explain half the weird stuff. This was very much like the show “Lost” where the creators did not explain anything and left us fuming at the end.
I liked it even though there wasn't a perfect ending to the story. I enjoyed it every week and think they gave both a physical killer and a spiritual killer in the end.
Tongue theory. Annie was exposed to the microorganism when she smashed up the lab, so after she was killed they had to get rid of her body. But they kept the tongue to observe. Not sure how it got on the floor, but there was obviously a lot of confusion after the scientists were overtaken by the women. As for the residue, I think it was the formation of a new tongue, repairing the skin cells left behind.
Great video. Very balanced review. :) The show had a lot of issues, but it was worth watching just to see and experience the setting. I think the setting was my favorite character :). I also really liked Jodi Foster's unlikeable character who you end up caring about a lot. Acting was really great too. Directing as well. But the script and writing and character development needed to be better. The show needed to be longer.
When was Clarke's video recorded? Because his jersey had no blood on it and it seems he wasn't under any coercion. So then maybe he made the video himself?
This was revealeding of the company, this was way before Navarro kicked his ass, this is Clark's phone, he wanted to expose the company, this isn't the same day when Navarro and Liz found him
Gotta watch a little closer than that. The beginning of the video is Navarro telling him "ok, go" and he's got a black eye. It all happened that same night
They shouldn't have attached it to season 1, thats the only reason it had something going for it. If they don't want it compared, don't use the name true Detective
Everything has an explanation, just like Liz said in one of the conversations with Eve. Navarro was told her native name as a child, supressed memories because of the traumas and just remembered it in the vision. The tongue was not explained, but Clarke wasn't a reliable witness, and even the cleaners, for that matter.
Navarro isn't dead. She is either a part of the night country because the ancient history of the ice caves or she is off the grid like the guy the engineer they interviewed who later disappeared again without a trace. She's in on a journey of self-discovery. Denver can not see the dead however she sees representations of the dead. Which, means that Navarro is alive. Also, Navarro’s clothing is colder after the weather changes to spring which may imply she's in the night country because the permafrost does not melt.
Also-also-also, now we know where Damian came from. It's a bit between the lines but remember Pete said to Kayla "You never wanted a baby." Not "you never wanted to HAVE a baby." I'm just glad it wasn't Pete that killed Annie. I was afraid that because Hank was looking at Liz when he said he didn't do it, it meant Pete already knew Hank didn't do it.
I thought it was really good. I acknowledge the little issues you had with it but they were minor. It’s a TV show and there are always things that happen to drive the plot that may not be realistic or are too convenient or coincidental. I can forgive those things if overall it kept me interested and caring what happens. I thought Jodi Foster was phenomenal. The setting in the darkness and cold was so good, almost like a character unto itself. I didn’t try to compare it to season one. It was a good show all on its own.
I think it’s really hurt this show (review wise) with everyone always comparing this show to season 1. And that’s partially the fault of the writers and director on the show by constantly putting in little details that relate in some ways to the villains of that season. But if you just watch this show without feeling like you need to compare it to past seasons, instead of just watching this season and enjoying it for what it is, then you’re inevitably going to compare the two seasons against each other. Which really isn’t fair when as a reviewer, you should be focusing mainly on this season and the things that happens in it. It was a good season, it could’ve used one or two more episodes maybe to explain some of the things that never did get fully explored. I think that is what hurts this season. Not the fact that it doesn’t totally link back to the first season. That really isn’t an important part of the season even. Just a few references coming from the first season were ever mentioned even. Yet most people that watched this season feel like the attachment of Tuttle Industries think that is the main mystery of the season. It’s not though, it wasn’t supposed to be. The spiral drawing and that stuff was just a misdirection mainly. And it clearly worked because most people thought there was going to be something that came out of this that might’ve answered some questions from the first season that never got explained. But if people just watched this season and judged it based on itself and not how it compares or relates to season one then you’re not going to enjoy this season as much as you could have. This season really was pretty good and did have some nice moments that were unexpected and developed the characters and the story in general. It had suspense and mystery and all the detective stuff. Along with a spiritual side that made you question whether this was something mythological. That was cool. I just think of you take it for what it’s supposed to be, a stand alone show, it’s more enjoyable than if you just keep comparing it to season one. You do a disservice to both season by doing that. I enjoyed this review so please don’t think I am being condescending or anything like that. And obviously everyone’s allowed to watch the show and judge it based on whatever they want to. I’m definitely not cutting down this video or how you saw this show. I’m only trying to give another perspective on it and how I feel it should be looked at. My words mean nothing obviously, I’m just making a suggestion on how I feel the show should be scrutinized. Thanks for your review and for the way you saw things! I enjoyed your video and how you saw this episode and season in general. 👍👍
When Navarro was riding Qavvik,she held his hands down,put her hand over his mouth...when you look at how Annie fought back when Clark was on top of her,when she awoke from being stabbed,he held her hands down and covered her face...saw that the second time and it was chilling. I wondered why we had to see Navarro on Qaavik like that. And Clark never told Navarro about his overpowering and snuffing out Annie...
I think the show left too many unanswered questions. Y did the chain with the cross pendant keep popping up and if it belonged to Navarro's mom then y did Liz pull it out of her hair?? The video on Annie's phone didn't match up with what happened. Plus the lights cutting out was a turning point in the case. Which led to the technician dude that was living in the camp outside of town. And y was he so freaked out after hearing about the death of the scientists especially since he wasn't there when they killed Annie?? Is the spiral a warning for thin ice or a cult symbol or what?? Why after finally learning her name did Navarro just walk out and kill herself after all she went through? And whats with all the ghosts?...there was someone standing behind Navarro when she tried to turn on the generator? Overall i think the show was good enough without the tie ins to season 1 especially to the fact that none of it paid off
And who was standing by the truck when navarro was turning on the generator (the person was in the background) and what happened to the crying Wheeler child? Did Damvers take the kid and adopt him as Holden, and that's why Navarro said he didn't look like her? So many questions.
Detective cleaning lady and Evil scientist and Lynch mob of women...this was a stretch all the way around. I could have been so much more...wasted potential of good actors
Has anyone called out the Ursa Major constellation (Big Dipper) made from pool balls that was on the pool table? It's one more bear reference that is still struggle to see it's relevance to the story.
Yep - pretty bad when you wrap up a whole miniseries in the last 20 minutes and lose half of the subject matter that has been discussed throughout the series. Why did the hallucinations of Annie K's ghost affect Navarro's sister? Rose's hallucinations of her husband? Tuttle Enterprises is the parent company of the mine and Tsalal. The regenerative DNA experiment that just vanished during the finale. The spiral tattoo that looked like the frozen beast in the ice not to mention the Season 1 appearances. Oranges appearing out of nowhere. The supernatural voices calling to everyone especially Navarro.The mine shutdown because of the leaked video from the scientist admitting to the mine's paying for the illegal pollution generation? No ramifications for the owner of the mine were discussed? The untold story of how the Sheriff's boy died? What's with the polar bear vision other than it was the kids toy? THE FLAT TIME CIRCLE the same quote by the killer in the season 1 said to Rust. The scientist tripping in and out of our dimension and proclaiming, "She is awake". What a horribly written show and one for the all-time list of worst series on TV. The only way to save this shit show was to have Rust get a call from his stepmom, Rose, and tell him about what was going on and have him appear in town to solve it in the last 20 minutes.
I don't know... Season 2 was pretty damn bad as well. We thought Taylor and Colin did a pretty good job, but the acting as a whole sucked. The multiple, convoluted/confusing storylines were annoying too. But it is what it is. Season 1 was great that it's hard to repeat that season after season I suppose.
The only acceptable ending was Clark saying "Time is a flat circle," and Navarro says, "all circles are flat -- it is the definition of a f*cking circle -- it exists on a plane -- do you say sh*t like time is a three-sided triangle and people bob their heads like nit-wits thinking it is profound?" And then Navarro shoots him in disgust. The end.
I think this whole series was about the development of a shaman (Navarro). Developed by people, spirits and the circumstances of life. The ending was about Navarro realizing she was a traditional Inuit shaman who was required to go out on the ice for her vision quest. A shaman must have deep roots to their ancestors and traditions to have the sustenance to become a true shaman.
hmm i dont know how i feel.. seems as if everyone absolutely hated it. but i think i enjoyed it for the most part. some of the dialogue at the the end was insufferable though. 5/10
6:07 Oh, I could not disagree more. Yea, the asking of "the right question" - "who knew" - did seem a bit trite at first brush, but I do not think it was intended to be, in this last case of Danver's use of it, an aha moment. They were already en route to where Blair was staying b/c Danver's recognized the hand from both Blair herself AND (big AND as you'll see) the pictures at the Lab. Danver's had always wondered why Clark 'kept' all those weird pictures. Why would he film his crime~? [They had been suspecting him]. Well, he didn't~!! The Indian women had taken the pictures. And the Lab stole them back from Annie K. So when Danver's mentions 'the right question' in the car, she is only iterating that they had neglected to use her own well trodden method. I LOVED this ending with the Indian women's story~!! It was perfect too, in that they did not kill the men directly. The Ice paid took her revenge for them taking her daughter. This story reminds me of 'Terror', the book. I did not see the film.
So the veterinarian that they get to do the unofficial autopsy says that they didn't die from being frozen because of the pained faces they have and that dying frozen is peaceful... but they did die from being frozen since the ladies forced them out on the ice?? So why are they looking pained and scared? I don't get it...
Yeah and the whole caribou thing at the beginning running off the cliffs. I feel like there were a lot more plot lines originally but they got cut out.
@@lauramcguan Yeah, I think that the writers sort of lost track of the storyline and forgot what they'd written in earlier episodes. Then towards the end they're like "oh shit, we have to wrap this up in a way that's not tied to some sort of supernatural occurrence...", which they sort of did, but not entirely. My wife and I more or less liked this season... Way better than Season 2, which was just an awful waste of 8+ hrs of your life.
I'd like it if we did. There was almost five years between Season 3 and 4 and I'd be open for there being a bit of time. Almost go back to the drawing board with it and the core of what made it good. Nailing the simple things in storytelling and building out from there.
@@BrainPilot As long as we don't have a repeat of Season 2... That was just plain awful. Convoluted multiple storylines. Over acting. Poor and/or forced acting. Vince Vaugn as a gangster with morals... Really?? My wife and I enjoyed Season 1 and this Season was pretty good, but not quite on the same level.
Am I the only one who sees the moral problem in the show? The scientists have elevated themselves above the law and deemed it morally justifiable to bypass existing laws for a higher purpose. The two detectives also do the same by not holding the women who killed the scientists accountable. In principle, all parties here are bypassing the existing law due to their own moral superiority, and the rule of the stronger prevails
Love the interview. It gave me closure. If May 12 (the interview date) is taking place in 2024, it’s actually Mother’s Day. Interesting. Also! This season was focused on the women to be the hero of the story and men as the “victims”. It’s just a story…..
Yeah that did feel very forced and didn't make half as much sense as what it did when Rust said it. I also feel like the spiral symbol in itself didn't need to be featured in this season
I understand your issues with the conveniency of the events of the finale but I didn't take any issue with them. In fact, it might be one of the best parts because we've spent so much time theorizing what was actually going on and things were getting borderline complicated. The resolutions were a great way to tie things together and subvert all the theories at the same time.
My final test to decide if I like a movie or show, is "would I watch it again?" I have seen season 1 three times, and seasons 2 & 3 I have seen twice each. That sums up exactly what they did for me. But I would not watch this season again. So I guess I liked it the least. The oranges, the tongue, the pointing, the one eyed polar bear, the scared men that dies before freezing to death, their burnt eyes, meant nothing? How disappointing.
Season 1 is still the best, I think most agree on that. This season was good, but as was brought up here, several things not making sense, and the end rushed to close it up. The thing I was thinking through every episode was how cold it was there. I don't think temperature was ever mentioned, but to have the characters walking around outside with their jackets unzipped and their faces uncovered didn't seem realistic. Especially this last episode, when Liz fell into the water, and Navarro pulling her out. They were just lying on the ice, where Liz would have gotten frost bite after just coming out of the water. Earlier in the episode, after the generator died, they were worried about freezing to death before Liz even going in the water. Speaking of the generator, that wasn't really explained. Navarro was watching Clarke as Liz took a break, then all of a sudden the power was out, Liz had frozen breath in the room she was sleeping in, and all of the lights were off. Liz then finds Navarro outside with Clarke frozen in the snow and accuses Navarro of letting Clarke go and turning off the generator. But Navarro said she didn't turn it off. So did that mean she didn't let Clarke go either? Not very clear what happened for me. Now, Clarke was dead, and Liz said they had no proof of what the mine was doing with the intentional polluting of the permafrost. Liz and Navarro go to the women to ask if they knew who killed Annie, and Liz goes with the mine's story of a weather event killing the men, and no one is to blame for their death. As mentioned here, a little rushed, as well as convenient. Two last things I'm thinking about now as I go over it in my head. Hank meeting with the woman from the mine (sorry, forgot her name), who pretty much asked him to kill Heiss. He says to her that he is not a killer, but then shows up at Liz's place, kills Heiss, and would have killed Liz if his son didn't shoot him. The second thing was the taped confession from Clarke. When was this given? When Liz and Navarro found him, Navarro beat the crap out of him and taped him into the chair. He was a bloody mess after that until he froze. But the video shows him in clean clothes, with injuries, but he was cleaned up and sitting in a chair with no restraints. How did Navarro get this video? Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk, I'm done (for now).
There is this repetitive theme that all white men are bad and stupid. It gets very old and predictable. Plus, I think it goes against who is their audience that’s watching this. I would think the majority of people watching true Detective are probably white men. So always representing your base audience as evil and dumb is probably not the best idea.
Side note: Imagine being told the cure for cancer was found but a girl destroyed it all because it was polluting a small town in Alaska. Have the government temporarily move the people out of the town so we can cure cancer. 🤷♂
Never explained the tongue. Clark's video left for Danvers had him clean without any blood on his face. They never explained the spiral fossilized creature in the caves. The scientists wouldn't have froze in the terrified position.
Ha, ha, THAT's your biggest question?? What about how Annie's tongue ended up at the Tsalal plant- Who put it there? The baby cryng at the Wheeler house didn't even have anything to do with the plot or mystery in any way. What happened?- what always happens: The State tries to find next of kin who would be willing to adopt it, a Grandparent, Aunt, etc. If they can't find that, the baby goes into the foster system and ends up getting adopted by someone. Yes, the ladies were shocked when they heard the baby cry, but only because they weren't expecting it at all. And the shock of the fact that there was yet another extremely vulnerable being living under the same Wheeler roof, that of a very violent man. The baby cring really doesn't mean much more than the fact that it was a big surprise to them.
Thanks for tuning into the weekly breakdowns of True Detective Season 4 and the throwback breakdowns of Season 1. 😊 It means a lot. The finale was definitely a mixed bag, but there were some real good moments amongst it. I'm really interested to see what you all thought of the finale. Let me know your thoughts below! 🤓
This was a waste of your analytical skill lol. I’d love to see you do something meaty like that AMC mini series starring Jared Harris, The Terror. Also a frozen north supernatural mystery, but one based off of a novel by the Legendary Dan Simmons.
Seconding ‘The Terror’! Mainly for the first season only. Just superb, haunting, scary and gut-punching. Please consider covering that one!
Overall, it was better than season one.
The only thing good about season one was Russ.
A little too complicated for its own good
I agree with your points about the rushed things in the finale. While using supernatural elements added to horror throughout the show, I felt the creator was obsessed with using them and even included Liz in the loop of seeing stuff despite denying them for Navaro. I don't mind adding vision to some characters but when you finally weigh in to land on the reality at the end, all of that visionary sightseeing (like a one-eyed polar bear) seems unnecessary. Overall was a good finale with the narrative of the season.
The next true detective should be about HBO Max's crimes against this beloved series.
lmaoooooooooo
Pete Prior was the true detective and my favorite character
Yeah his development was definitely the best. He had the moral dilemma and the detective work. I found his final shot so haunting when he was next to his son knowing what he did to his own father and the fact he has to live with that forever
He didn’t solve the murders! And his information wasn’t accurate. Jesus, no wonder the women knew to kill them all cuz no one gives the women credit.
@@ceciliaSF-TX it's this kind of attitude that cheapens the series...since when is True Detective men against women, men better than women etc what is good or expected ?? Ridiculous.
@@autk
It does cheapen the series when Peter is given all the credit for solving the murders. I not the one pitting the sexes against other, way too many comments have done just that & usually minimizing the female roles. Peter was a likable character & his path in life will be tough due to that fact his father was not a good man.
@@ceciliaSF-TX it’s just the way I I felt about the show , dang don’t get all crazy about it
Big LOL when the ladies stormed the lab
Is it me or did what happened to Annie not match the video of her supposed last moments whatsoever?
Unreliable narrators is a constant
Thought the same thing this entire season we thought she was killed in the chamber with the snake fossil. Not so much me thinks.
It wasn't
All the lights were on when she was being stabbed , so it doesn’t appear the power was cut.
Remember the whole getting kicked and stomped with spikes after being killed with the spikes. That wasn’t shown at all…
It was actually Reggie Ledoux who told Rust time is a flat circle and Rust used it while he was being interrogated.
Cringe moment in True Detective "Red Herring Country".
@@autk I loved the series, but I agree it was a cringe moment 🤣 I would like to think that it was suggested by one of the Discovery executives.
Yes we know, this isn’t a super secret connection, it’s one of the most well-known memes from True Detective Season 1 and made no sense here.
Rust quoting Ledoux YEARS later and truly believing the philosophy... DOPE writing! BUUUUT....... Greasy-ass, Raymond "we got Sandor Glegane at home" Clark saying it....? Total dog shit. I legit blurted out "THAT'S....... fucking stupid" 🤦
@@Gupi_777 I've watched every season, I say it in jest because I'm irritated with the writers and show runner.
Intentionally abusing season one folklore for interest in a deliberate attempt to bait and switch the viewers wasn't cool, it cheapens Season One and that's offensive to myself and obviously legions of season one stans. It wasn't necessary, they had a great location and beautiful cinematography, some good acting here and there, Jodi F Foster and a not bad story with some work IF they had left the Rust's father narrative, the spiral Cult symbolism and the Tuttles etc out of Night Country.. because they crapped on it.. blatant red herrings for cheap plot devices because the writing was weak? Nonsense. Do better.
We were the victims.
😭😭😭
😂😂
Bruh 💀
😂😂😂
Terrible last episode
If the Coast Guard could find Julia THAT quickly,Navarro would have been found. I think Navarro pulled a "Rose " and moved away from Ennis,like Rose moved away from her job after finding it pointless.
That's a nice way to look at it. I think it's probably more in line with that too. Ashe wouldn't walk into the darkness after just finding the light!
Yeah, if CG can find a random body on Christmas Eve when they aren't looking... Lol
"surf's up Danvers, the break is awesome at Honolua Bay dude " 😂
"If the Coast Guard could find Julia THAT quickly" - with Rose making it a point to release the air out of Hanks lungs before the body was dumped I think explains how they found Julia quickly. Hank was specifically prepared to sink.
Makes me kind of wonder how Rose seemed to be the expert in making people disappear, and known as an expert to others in that Navarro instructed Pete to go to Rose about the bodies. 😉
Rose knew to cut Hank and get the air out of his lungs so he doesn't float back up. Rose has done this before, lol. She didn't have a problem with Pete showing up with the body of Hank it seems. She's good. Doesn't judge what is none of her biz and just offers to help.
The only one doing actual detective work was Peter. Without his convenient all seeing internet skills that the CIA would envy this story would have stalled in the first episode.
Without using season one folklore as bait this season fails completely
Lol that's true about Pete!
Was looking forward to the end off this and i got hit with a pie in the face for a finale. Why do I try and watch new things 😢
If by a way of a miracle, we get a season 5 for the love of God, PLEASE do the following:
- Dial it back on the supernatural
- Bring it back to 8 episodes
- Either truly connect to another season or dont. I'd rather they have no connection to any other season, if it means we just get a great story and solid writing. Dont shoehorn it
- the numerous plot holes have to go
Kayla’s abrupt change of heart made no sense. I even wondered if she was the one catfishing Hank, to get money out of him. Wheeler whistling Twist & Shout and then that dude that split from ice fishing was whistling it too. I thought we’d finally see the accident & Twist & Shout was playing, but nope, just glass crunching🤷♀️
Agree with everything
They had to have written multiple endings. What happened to the polar bear? I thought the men died before they went out on the ice, why would they look so scared if they just froze to death? Why would they bite themselves? Why would someone write, “we are all dead” on the whiteboard? We have no idea about Navarro‘s mom, why Julia, fold her clothes before walking out onto the ice, even though she was not forced to. So incredibly terrible I have no words. Except those.
I think you're supposed to assume the spirit of Annie was out on the ice and terrified them as they froze to death. The whole "she took them" thing the cleaning lady talked about.
Or they truly saw an avalanche. @@ohyeaaaa1
writer sucked, wants you to fill in the gaps they left
The vigilante women wrote that on the white board. It's explained many times that hypothermia can cause people to do all sorts of irrational things, such as self-harm, biting oneself, 'paradoxical stripping' etc. People who commit suicide do all sorts of things that are "tidy" right before checking out. I don't think it's strange at all that Julia would fold her clothes, as a way of leaving them in order. Also, for the same reason that the women left the men's clothes neatly folded, in case the Sedna Goddess decided "not to take them," aka, they don't freeze to death, the clothes would be waiting for them in a neat pile when they returned.
Navarro goes through a strange episode on the ice and her ears bleed - but instead of dying like the other characters she somehow comes back and saves Liz from drowning - and her hearing is just fine....
Death is not the end of it. Death is the gateway to the higher dimension. Theme of parts of S1 and S4
Yes, thank you. Made no sense that Navarro would kill herself by walking out onto the ice. It just didn't feel complete. Her being alive and exploring herself makes more sense. Although Navarro with Liz at the end, I'm not sure if it's liz remembering Navarros spirit or what? It's definitely meant for us to think up Navarros destiny. In my ending, Navarro is alive....
What!! Navarro didn't kill herself, she alive and Liz visited her. That was not her spirit
Navarro is the name of the bigfoot cop lady? In my ending she was rewritten along with the script and it was a good show
The ending was powerful for me but for a reason you didn’t mention. There is an ongoing mystery of large numbers Indigenous American women disappearing and being murdered, it’s barely talked about outside of native or women’s rights circles that this Native woman was avenged by other mostly Native women was a cathartic moment for me, I cried.
Evangeline Navarro definitely committed suicide. She had suicidal ideation many times and was constantly saying how people were calling her out there. She walked out onto the ice in a kind of trance at least two times. Once with Rose, another time with Danvers. In the finale, she tells Liz about "no longer being afraid of who was on the other side of the hatch." She's making a reference to what Raymond Clark literally did, but really, it is metaphor for her always trying to survive by clinging so tight to a metaphorical hatch, that serves to shut people out and keep her in isolation. In the finale, Navarro finally feels the calm and bravery it would take for her to simply let go and walk out into the oblivion. Knowing her Indigenous name also gives her the resolution to walk out of the darkness which was her life, towards a place of light and freedom, fully knowing who she is and fully realizing it. She quite literally does what her indigenous name means. The fact that there were sightings of her afterwards is simply because it's a common phenomenon in Ennis, that people see ghosts.
Oranges is the reference to the Godfather movie: after each orange appearance someone is dying. In True Detective we see the same
Yeah I thought it was something similar for sure
13:12 You don't 'get it' cause you are not an Indian Woman. Remember, too that Siqinnaatchiaq's own mother peeled her orange the way she did "all in a continuous stream" as Danver's tried in the end and it left that symbol on the plate. The oranges were symbolic in their own spiritual connections with their mother. Importantly, they LEFT the symbol in the same way as they LEFT the tongue ~ on purpose to connect the deaths to Annie K. in the hopes that Siginnaatchiag (or anybody) 'would make' the connection. It was "a message'. The spiral itself is a magical symbol that has been used for thousands of years by different cultures around the world and maybe too it actually has a specific meaning for the Inupiat tribe.
Does it have to be “because you’re not…”
We are all humans and we’re all animals and throughout the eons we’ve all been one another.
This limited thinking that “you don’t know what it’s like to be me” is what holds us all back.
@@charlesgoodis6302 Yes, I should have said b/c you weren't raised in the traditional culture of ... or something similar. Thanks.
This season finale turn out to be pretty bad & overall the whole season is even more disappointing than season 2 imo. For anyone that looking a far better story with similar setting & themes, I really recommend movie "Wind River" instead & maybe Fargo TV series season 1.
The only thing that I missed from my predictions is Raymond Clark being the typical bad guy mad scientist, instead of a disturbed traumatized men who was taking revenge on his own colleagues. Honestly it make no sense for Raymond Clark to even go into hiding from everyone when he didn't even kill the scientists. If anything, he could go to witness protection or maybe being privately secured by Kate (Silver Sky Mining) so they can bury all of their illegal mining stuffs & closing the case permanently on who killed scientists. Everyone suddenly are so dumb somehow, especially in a blizzard. None of that mass psychosis from water poisoning too, just actual supernatural shenanigans.
I still don't get how the native ladies came to a conclusion that ALL of the scientists killed Annie K. It was at best purely conjecture from their POVs, just like how they blamed the mine people before it. Annie K found footage also very different with what being shown to us in flashback scenes. She was being grabbed immediately before even destroyed research stuffs.
I would argue this lame season is a lame ripoffs of "Wind River" & a bit of "Fargo" too but losing all of its meaningful thematic storytelling IRL problems, especially when it's not grounded & gone supernatural haywire. I would argue it may possibly insulting to the natives too. It's practically a comical storytelling of another female empowerment where all woman are victims (but "strong") while all men are bad or deserve to get shieate on.
As expected, the season 1 supposed connections are meaningless baits to attract fandom. I am not even talking about many plot holes & inconsistency of characters behaviors.
About the women figuring out the whole crime based on that star shaped tool, yeah that was dumb. It’s based on them knowing what we know, but falls apart if you think more than a second. They basically did all this shit on an improbable hunch.
I enjoyed season 4 despite some shortcomings. I loved it much more than season 2 or 3 m. Jodie Foster still can act on another level
Yeah the scene where Liz was telling Evangeline to never say her sons name was her best moment in the season for sure!
Agree... Haven't watched Season 3 yet, but Season 2 was effing awful on so many levels.
This finale was absolute dog shit. What a waste of all these episodes just leading to this. Every one murdering and getting away. Wow
Why wouldn’t Hank just move Annie’s body out into the sea? Body full of clues vs a disappearance? Seems like an easy choice.
Fair point!
Because it was a clueless woman made this story
I think it was an opportunity for the mine to send a message about opposing it.
I think he was instructed to send a message to would be protestors.
Hank isn’t the one who cut out the tongue and made the body easy to find.
I think the simpler nitpick is why the hatch in the floor? They could have made it a regular hatch. Who would know anything was wrong about it, it's a research station. If this was about securing it against espionage, a hidden hatch feels both too much and not enough.
Beatrice wasn't referring to Annie K taking the scientists. She was referring to something else much bigger
She was referring to Sedna
this guy doesnt get it. ThinkStory is better. Beatrice literally explained there's a female diety they believe serves judgement and yet here he is saying its Annie. Infact I thhink Julia believed in that diety too hence how she folded her clothes and shoes before going in
I’ve enjoyed these videos, thank you! I agree with pretty much everything you said about the finale. I loved this series up until the last episode, which I felt was a huge letdown with too many unanswered questions. After reading an interview with Issa Lopez, I don’t think she had all the answers either. Half of the mysteries were just random red herrings, and when pressed by the interviewer for more information, she was basically like, “it’s up for interpretation!” Pretty weak.
Thanks a lot. Glad you enjoyed the videos. And ah, thanks for sharing info on the interview. That's good to know. Odd that it came across like she wasn't even aware
The acting was great! Love Jodie in this role & Kali did great. I refused to get bogged down w/comparisons to the first season. The ending wasn’t perfect, it didn’t have to be, it was entertaining & that is all I hoped for. This viewer is happy.
Great, but it was the writers and show runners who deliberately entangled the entire season 4 narrative with season one folklore...they did it, the audience didn't, engage some critical thinking and assign responsibility...or just be a lemming because it serves your anti man hate narrative. 🤣
@@autk
Where did you get that I hate men??? For the record, I don’t. But historically speaking, the majority of violence is done by men, that is fact. In terms of this show, who the heck cares about S1, it had its moment & it concluded its story in THAT season. Anything beyond that is just emotional reverence to S1 as S2 & S3 were not good. Sure, I am ok w/this season not doing it justice, but was that it’s objective? Doubt it. But I enjoyed this show & those who had that misgiven desire re: S1 have their panties in a wad.
@@ceciliaSF-TX it's the fault of Issa for the entanglement with Season One, she made a choice and the show runner did too, it's on them, and the man hater narrative is real throughout Season 4, unnecessary to pit women vs men, and to say most violence is perpetrated by men ignores 50% of domestic violence cases...I love women, but man haters, not so much.
@@autk
I love men, but women haters not so much. In fact, not at all. To say that 50% of domestic violence is by women, wow - that is an alternative viewpoint. Let’s not forget in the first season that the SERIAL KILLER WAS A MAN! And it took many years for our heroes to solve that mystery. And in S2 & S3, mostly men doing the violence. But ok.
Look, I didn’t look at this show as men vs women. Many commentators did & usually denigrated the female characters and/or the female actors. It’s really getting crazy.
Bye now!
same
The coincidences were ridiculous like the crew was like ok do this right on this spot or else the whole show makes no damn sense 😂
What made season 1 and 3 so good was how they developed and REDEEMED Woody Harrison and Stephen Dorff characters from younger version to older (redeemed) version. And it takes 8 EPISODES (not six) to accomplish that.
Yeah both Rust and Marty had such good character arcs
Life is random, I totally believed the bucket spill. Surprised it didn’t happen “earlier.” But that’s how life unfolds and that’s one thing I did believe. They def left some gaping holes but that’s what you get with 6 eps. Thanks for the breakdowns!
thanks for a great season of recaps! You hit the nail right on the head about one big flaw - this season really needed to be the full eight episodes - that would have allowed much more exposition about the numerous hanging threads. You also make a couple other great points - if there is going to be a tie-in to Season One then make it clear and make that a valuable part of the series - just throwing in the Tuttle name and the spiral and then NOT expanding on them is a huge flaw.And by just casually adding that to S4 you can't avoid making comparisons to S1 - when, as you point out, it's senseless to do that since they are two entirely different shows. The other issue you brought up: yeah, if it's a show about solving a crime then THAT should be the main focus of the series - way too many tangents in this season, especially with the all the personal relationships - again, if the show was eight episodes then those aspects could have been covered in more detail. It was kinda like, oops, we only have one episode left so we better cram in as much as we can and hope for the best. I have to admit I thought it was a good season - an 8/10 from me and maybe tied with S3. I wish you might have said more about Rose - definitely more going on with her than we were shown. Also, I am a big adherent to the 'Chekhov's Gun' way of fingering the culprit and I have to admit that back in Ep1 when we were shown the missing fingers I knew immediately who the killer was going to be (although getting to the 'how' took until the last episode - I thought she would somehow lure them into the 'crab freezer'). Thanks again for all the great insight!
A horrific boss covering for a coworker that commit murder. A police officer kills his father who is also a murderer and police. An old lady who clearly is an expert in dumping corpses. A gang of women who takes the law in their own hands and murder eight scientists. The one thing that makes TD S4 really stand out is the complete abscence of any kind of moral compass, e.i. : kill anyone you like - the law will look away. You gotta love this show!! 😂🤔
Ahh, nice point that Liz and Leah were on holiday. Makes me feel like they went to go visit Navarro. Would suck if she was dead, didn’t believe it but the elusiveness did seem to point to that to me.
Yeah but Liz was in uniform. Why would she wear her uniform on vacation?
Brilliant! TD reviews, agree 100% - like you, I'm dissapointed with the spiral symbol outcome. Was excited when Navaro & Denver looked up to the spiral in the mine, but alas - no cult links to S1.
Yeah that was such a shame with this season!
Everyone saying it was rust to say “time is a flat circle” but its was reggie Ledoux talking to rust who first mentions time in a circle
We'll do this again....black stars.....
I really liked this season. I’m not overly attached to the connections to the first season so none of that mattered to me.
People who haven’t been to Alaska and don’t understand just how removed from society it is might not think it’s plausible to ignore laws the way Danvers and Navarro do, but it’s more like they’re maintaining balance or order than following the law stringently.
To me the season dealt the in tension between feminine and masculine energies. Dealing with birth/death, nature and a priori knowledge instead of a posteriori: intuition vs materialism.
They ignore the law in literally every season of the show…. This season was just written terribly it’s an absolute stinker.
beautifully shot poorly written
All outside scenes were shot in Iceland....
@@purpleronnie10 duh. The story is in Alaska.
Wife got so mad at me when I said those women were dumb. Could have just used a Tsala truck to stay warm. The very truck they used at the end of the episode to go to the girls house 🤷🏻♂️🤣
Exactly. First thing, I thought of the truck(s) and the fact that they had the keys. No reason to risk freezing to death.
Hard to roast marshmallows in a car.
There were so many details that were purely pointless in this show.
1. All the way back at the beginning of the first episode, all of the caribou jumping off of the cliff.... why? I mean, honestly.... why?
2. The engineer who was living at the nomad camp.... why was he afraid to talk like it was literally going to be the death of him, and why did he run?? Did he feel guilty about the part that he played in the pollution?
3. Why did Hank dump Annie's body in a place where she would be found, and not in some unknown area?
4. The trailer.... was that just like that because Raymond had a breakdown and was acting like Annie aas coming back?
5.The baby that was in the house where Danvers and Navarro shot the sociopath who beat his girlfriend to death.... what did that reveal do??
6. The polar bear with one eye?? Did Danvers just need that reminder of her son?
7. Navarro's mum's necklace being wound in Danvers' hair in the last episode. Navarro obviously knew the significance of that, but why would Danvers? Why was it in her hair??
8. Danvers falling through the ice!!! She and Navarro were in a facility with no heat, in the dead of winter, in the arctic! Not only should she have died, she actually got over her hypothermia in what looked like about an hour??! What was the point??
9. And may I say that Fiona Shaw was COMPLETELY wasted! I adore her as an actress, and yet her character had no real story or real point, except to get rid of bodies and ashes, apparently.... I love her, but her whole character was useless. I mean, imagine how cool it would have been if she had been the murderer all along?
There are so many other pointless dead end things, but those are the ones I can remember that really irked me. I agree that the realism that 'not every mystery can be solved' is a good touch, however, when red herrings arent even red herrings.... just pointless dead ends.... that is just really unfortunate writing....
And what was the point of Hanks internet fiancé?!
@eval1313 well that was to make him the desperate person he was in the end. He lost all his money, was completely alone and without that he probably wouldn't have agreed to the Otis thing. I agree the show was terrible but
I think the baby is the child that Pete and his wife are raising and that's why he said that line about her not wanting the baby ??
Imagine were told by the cast and crew that oranges were just cheaper than apples as a random fruit 😂
I could care less about leading women, I think the leads were totally fine in this show. Had no problem with it, all long as you can act then awesome. Jodi foster is a terrific actor.
This season had everyone into it for sure, through out the whole season. But we have to be brutally honest the last episode was so poorly written and it’s so freaking obvious. I think everyone who said they enjoy it are truly blinded by their bias of the message that was trying to be told.
Starting with the murder of Annie.. let’s really think about this scene. All of the scientists hear a commotion in the ice cave and they all come running to find a guy brutally murdering a girl who they probably can’t even tell who it is. Without hesitation these scientists jump in and start helping murder her without a bat of an eye!!? Without questioning anything!? So extremely unbelievable as a viewer. Scientists typically aren’t cold blooded murders and will always question before they do things. So that was just completely unrealistic for one..
Which brings me to the point where some people say they think Clark was lying and he alone killed Annie. Well if this is true then these 12 cleaning ladies straight up just murdered the innocent scientists… yet we’re suppose to side with the 12 cleaning ladies ?
And how in the fuck does 12 cleaning ladies raid a lab, manage to load up a bunch of men in a huge truck, drive them out to the tundra and release them with not a single bit of evidence or struggle besides a freaking fingerprint on the cave door latch… so dumb. Are these cleaning women forensic experts?
It just ended so damn poorly and I understand women are loving it because it portrays them as strong and independent but can we be honest this ending was completely horrible.
Overall very underwhelming ending due to the following reasons:
1. Annie, the midwife, with no formal scientific education, figuring out the top scientistic project details based on some documents.
2. She destroys years of research as if those scientific and valuable documents are not electronically saved on hard drive, cloud or some other digital format !!!!
3. She gets murdered by a group of top world class scientists with PHDs in their fields like they are professional killers.
4. A cleaning lady spills water exactly by the underground hatch opening and gets her other cleaning ladies involved and somehow they put the whole murder case together like professional detectives.
5. The cleaning ladies outsmart the scientists, and this expensive lab that’s owned by powerful and ultra wealthy Tuttle family, does not have one armed security guard!
6. The entire world and millions of cancer patients did not get to use this incredible medical breakthrough drug because of some small town in middle of nowhere wanted to have clean water. Move those hundred people to a new town maybe?
7. The overall story arch was very man hating. All the heroes were women and all the evil doers were men. A feminist extravaganza!
8. What was the deal with the polar bear? Was there a spirit involved? The show did not explain half the weird stuff. This was very much like the show “Lost” where the creators did not explain anything and left us fuming at the end.
I’m so pissed off. Season 2 and 3 were 100x better than this. What a cheap POS the writer was for trying to feed off season 1s greatness.
When you are constantly rewriting the script in your head while watching, then something is not working.
I liked it even though there wasn't a perfect ending to the story. I enjoyed it every week and think they gave both a physical killer and a spiritual killer in the end.
Yeah they tried to cover both bases, and I agree. It had me guessing which is good for a show like this!
I think Pete is a kind of young Rusty, he will be good detective in few years.
Yeah I agree
Have really enjoyed your reviews this season. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Tongue theory.
Annie was exposed to the microorganism when she smashed up the lab, so after she was killed they had to get rid of her body. But they kept the tongue to observe. Not sure how it got on the floor, but there was obviously a lot of confusion after the scientists were overtaken by the women. As for the residue, I think it was the formation of a new tongue, repairing the skin cells left behind.
Great video. Very balanced review. :)
The show had a lot of issues, but it was worth watching just to see and experience the setting. I think the setting was my favorite character :). I also really liked Jodi Foster's unlikeable character who you end up caring about a lot. Acting was really great too. Directing as well.
But the script and writing and character development needed to be better. The show needed to be longer.
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Here's the ending explained 'It was terrible'..... the ending, middle and beginning.
When was Clarke's video recorded? Because his jersey had no blood on it and it seems he wasn't under any coercion. So then maybe he made the video himself?
This was revealeding of the company, this was way before Navarro kicked his ass, this is Clark's phone, he wanted to expose the company, this isn't the same day when Navarro and Liz found him
Gotta watch a little closer than that. The beginning of the video is Navarro telling him "ok, go" and he's got a black eye. It all happened that same night
@@thegolfdude ahh thanks
I wish I never wasted my time watching this season. This had to have been a 5th grade writing submission. So much great potential just thrown away.
Insufferable characters, the whole bunch of them. I saw them in mortal peril and I couldn't care less
They shouldn't have attached it to season 1, thats the only reason it had something going for it. If they don't want it compared, don't use the name true Detective
Yeah adding the connections made it go up in our expectations and without it, we wouldn't have expected there to have been a similarity!
How did Clark’s shirt get so clean on the confession video?
Everything has an explanation, just like Liz said in one of the conversations with Eve. Navarro was told her native name as a child, supressed memories because of the traumas and just remembered it in the vision. The tongue was not explained, but Clarke wasn't a reliable witness, and even the cleaners, for that matter.
Navarro isn't dead. She is either a part of the night country because the ancient history of the ice caves or she is off the grid like the guy the engineer they interviewed who later disappeared again without a trace. She's in on a journey of self-discovery. Denver can not see the dead however she sees representations of the dead. Which, means that Navarro is alive. Also, Navarro’s clothing is colder after the weather changes to spring which may imply she's in the night country because the permafrost does not melt.
"Surf's up Danvers, like the break at Honolua Bay is totally rad dude" 🏄♀️🌊 🤣
Also, when Julia walked out for suicide, she undressed. The scientists were forced to undress. Navarro walked out fully clothed… no intent to die.
What I got from this video is that you understood the ending even less than I did lol.
So why did they have burned out corneas then?
Rewrites
extreme frostbite
I was underwhelmed. It felt too rushed.
Also-also-also, now we know where Damian came from. It's a bit between the lines but remember Pete said to Kayla "You never wanted a baby." Not "you never wanted to HAVE a baby."
I'm just glad it wasn't Pete that killed Annie. I was afraid that because Hank was looking at Liz when he said he didn't do it, it meant Pete already knew Hank didn't do it.
Wait where did Pete’s son come from? I think his name was Darwin not Damian but I think I missed something about where he came from in the show
I thought it was really good. I acknowledge the little issues you had with it but they were minor. It’s a TV show and there are always things that happen to drive the plot that may not be realistic or are too convenient or coincidental. I can forgive those things if overall it kept me interested and caring what happens. I thought Jodi Foster was phenomenal. The setting in the darkness and cold was so good, almost like a character unto itself. I didn’t try to compare it to season one. It was a good show all on its own.
I'm a softy. I just wanted to see Navarro and Qavvik together at the end ❤️
Yeah, poor guy lol
I think it’s really hurt this show (review wise) with everyone always comparing this show to season 1. And that’s partially the fault of the writers and director on the show by constantly putting in little details that relate in some ways to the villains of that season.
But if you just watch this show without feeling like you need to compare it to past seasons, instead of just watching this season and enjoying it for what it is, then you’re inevitably going to compare the two seasons against each other. Which really isn’t fair when as a reviewer, you should be focusing mainly on this season and the things that happens in it. It was a good season, it could’ve used one or two more episodes maybe to explain some of the things that never did get fully explored. I think that is what hurts this season. Not the fact that it doesn’t totally link back to the first season. That really isn’t an important part of the season even. Just a few references coming from the first season were ever mentioned even. Yet most people that watched this season feel like the attachment of Tuttle Industries think that is the main mystery of the season. It’s not though, it wasn’t supposed to be. The spiral drawing and that stuff was just a misdirection mainly. And it clearly worked because most people thought there was going to be something that came out of this that might’ve answered some questions from the first season that never got explained.
But if people just watched this season and judged it based on itself and not how it compares or relates to season one then you’re not going to enjoy this season as much as you could have. This season really was pretty good and did have some nice moments that were unexpected and developed the characters and the story in general. It had suspense and mystery and all the detective stuff. Along with a spiritual side that made you question whether this was something mythological. That was cool.
I just think of you take it for what it’s supposed to be, a stand alone show, it’s more enjoyable than if you just keep comparing it to season one. You do a disservice to both season by doing that.
I enjoyed this review so please don’t think I am being condescending or anything like that. And obviously everyone’s allowed to watch the show and judge it based on whatever they want to. I’m definitely not cutting down this video or how you saw this show. I’m only trying to give another perspective on it and how I feel it should be looked at. My words mean nothing obviously, I’m just making a suggestion on how I feel the show should be scrutinized.
Thanks for your review and for the way you saw things! I enjoyed your video and how you saw this episode and season in general. 👍👍
When Navarro was riding Qavvik,she held his hands down,put her hand over his mouth...when you look at how Annie fought back when Clark was on top of her,when she awoke from being stabbed,he held her hands down and covered her face...saw that the second time and it was chilling. I wondered why we had to see Navarro on Qaavik like that. And Clark never told Navarro about his overpowering and snuffing out Annie...
Peter Prior carried the show
I think the show left too many unanswered questions.
Y did the chain with the cross pendant keep popping up and if it belonged to Navarro's mom then y did Liz pull it out of her hair??
The video on Annie's phone didn't match up with what happened. Plus the lights cutting out was a turning point in the case. Which led to the technician dude that was living in the camp outside of town. And y was he so freaked out after hearing about the death of the scientists especially since he wasn't there when they killed Annie??
Is the spiral a warning for thin ice or a cult symbol or what??
Why after finally learning her name did Navarro just walk out and kill herself after all she went through?
And whats with all the ghosts?...there was someone standing behind Navarro when she tried to turn on the generator?
Overall i think the show was good enough without the tie ins to season 1 especially to the fact that none of it paid off
And who was standing by the truck when navarro was turning on the generator (the person was in the background) and what happened to the crying Wheeler child? Did Damvers take the kid and adopt him as Holden, and that's why Navarro said he didn't look like her? So many questions.
We were the true killers all along....of mother nature. The show unmasked ourselves, and the detectives held up the mirror. So deep. 10/10.
it was easily a 3/10
Tf haha climate change doesn't exist
I detect sarcasm
@Notfakeultra Its easy to detect the sarcasm in his comment
Sarcasm alert 😁
Detective cleaning lady and Evil scientist and Lynch mob of women...this was a stretch all the way around. I could have been so much more...wasted potential of good actors
Has anyone called out the Ursa Major constellation (Big Dipper) made from pool balls that was on the pool table? It's one more bear reference that is still struggle to see it's relevance to the story.
Yep - pretty bad when you wrap up a whole miniseries in the last 20 minutes and lose half of the subject matter that has been discussed throughout the series. Why did the hallucinations of Annie K's ghost affect Navarro's sister? Rose's hallucinations of her husband? Tuttle Enterprises is the parent company of the mine and Tsalal. The regenerative DNA experiment that just vanished during the finale. The spiral tattoo that looked like the frozen beast in the ice not to mention the Season 1 appearances. Oranges appearing out of nowhere. The supernatural voices calling to everyone especially Navarro.The mine shutdown because of the leaked video from the scientist admitting to the mine's paying for the illegal pollution generation? No ramifications for the owner of the mine were discussed? The untold story of how the Sheriff's boy died? What's with the polar bear vision other than it was the kids toy? THE FLAT TIME CIRCLE the same quote by the killer in the season 1 said to Rust. The scientist tripping in and out of our dimension and proclaiming, "She is awake". What a horribly written show and one for the all-time list of worst series on TV.
The only way to save this shit show was to have Rust get a call from his stepmom, Rose, and tell him about what was going on and have him appear in town to solve it in the last 20 minutes.
I don't know... Season 2 was pretty damn bad as well. We thought Taylor and Colin did a pretty good job, but the acting as a whole sucked. The multiple, convoluted/confusing storylines were annoying too. But it is what it is. Season 1 was great that it's hard to repeat that season after season I suppose.
The only acceptable ending was Clark saying "Time is a flat circle," and Navarro says, "all circles are flat -- it is the definition of a f*cking circle -- it exists on a plane -- do you say sh*t like time is a three-sided triangle and people bob their heads like nit-wits thinking it is profound?" And then Navarro shoots him in disgust. The end.
I think this whole series was about the development of a shaman (Navarro). Developed by people, spirits and the circumstances of life. The ending was about Navarro realizing she was a traditional Inuit shaman who was required to go out on the ice for her vision quest. A shaman must have deep roots to their ancestors and traditions to have the sustenance to become a true shaman.
Liz gets to discount Clarks ghost by finding fingerprints, but ends up with her own.
hmm i dont know how i feel.. seems as if everyone absolutely hated it. but i think i enjoyed it for the most part. some of the dialogue at the the end was insufferable though. 5/10
This ending explanation was waaaaay better than Screen Crush!
What animal is the fossil in the laboratory?
don't matter at all apparently. It's fossils of many animals that move like a spiral.
A distraction
Well done again!!
So the world could have been saved if Annie didn't ruin the research
6:07 Oh, I could not disagree more. Yea, the asking of "the right question" - "who knew" - did seem a bit trite at first brush, but I do not think it was intended to be, in this last case of Danver's use of it, an aha moment. They were already en route to where Blair was staying b/c Danver's recognized the hand from both Blair herself AND (big AND as you'll see) the pictures at the Lab. Danver's had always wondered why Clark 'kept' all those weird pictures. Why would he film his crime~? [They had been suspecting him]. Well, he didn't~!! The Indian women had taken the pictures. And the Lab stole them back from Annie K. So when Danver's mentions 'the right question' in the car, she is only iterating that they had neglected to use her own well trodden method. I LOVED this ending with the Indian women's story~!! It was perfect too, in that they did not kill the men directly. The Ice paid took her revenge for them taking her daughter. This story reminds me of 'Terror', the book. I did not see the film.
Where did the tongue come from?
We will never know! I think it's similar to the end of season 1. Showing that not all things get answered!
So the veterinarian that they get to do the unofficial autopsy says that they didn't die from being frozen because of the pained faces they have and that dying frozen is peaceful... but they did die from being frozen since the ladies forced them out on the ice?? So why are they looking pained and scared? I don't get it...
Yeah and the whole caribou thing at the beginning running off the cliffs. I feel like there were a lot more plot lines originally but they got cut out.
Rewrites I think
its the eskimo ghost shit that made them scare
@@lauramcguan Yeah, I think that the writers sort of lost track of the storyline and forgot what they'd written in earlier episodes. Then towards the end they're like "oh shit, we have to wrap this up in a way that's not tied to some sort of supernatural occurrence...", which they sort of did, but not entirely.
My wife and I more or less liked this season... Way better than Season 2, which was just an awful waste of 8+ hrs of your life.
It was like watching the finale of Lost.
Still a better story than twilight
When Navaro shot Weeler, was that a baby crying in the background?
I thought I heard a baby too, and they seemed to be like 'oh sht, this isn't just wrapped up with a gunshot and we can walk away'
Yeah its the baby Pete and his wife are raising
@@t7147 yea I thought the same. But they didnt follow up on that one..
@@marklachney420 how do you know?
@missbrightheads5786 context clues. Pete saying she didn't want the baby and it ruined their life.
The real question is will we get a season 5? And if so will we get better detectives that are more likeable
I'd like it if we did. There was almost five years between Season 3 and 4 and I'd be open for there being a bit of time. Almost go back to the drawing board with it and the core of what made it good. Nailing the simple things in storytelling and building out from there.
@@BrainPilot As long as we don't have a repeat of Season 2... That was just plain awful. Convoluted multiple storylines. Over acting. Poor and/or forced acting. Vince Vaugn as a gangster with morals... Really?? My wife and I enjoyed Season 1 and this Season was pretty good, but not quite on the same level.
It was not Annie who is she, it’s Sedna
Am I the only one who sees the moral problem in the show? The scientists have elevated themselves above the law and deemed it morally justifiable to bypass existing laws for a higher purpose. The two detectives also do the same by not holding the women who killed the scientists accountable. In principle, all parties here are bypassing the existing law due to their own moral superiority, and the rule of the stronger prevails
Love the interview. It gave me closure. If May 12 (the interview date) is taking place in 2024, it’s actually Mother’s Day. Interesting.
Also! This season was focused on the women to be the hero of the story and men as the “victims”. It’s just a story…..
This season was terrible.. shoehorning "time is a flat circle" was downright offensive.
Yeah that did feel very forced and didn't make half as much sense as what it did when Rust said it. I also feel like the spiral symbol in itself didn't need to be featured in this season
Someone on reddit said that Wheeler was whislting Twist and Shout. I'm too lazy to go back and check but it would make sense.
I defended this season from the start against haters … but what a flop. They didn’t earn a “grounded” explanation.
I would watch season 2 without taking any breaks before I watch that trash again.
I understand your issues with the conveniency of the events of the finale but I didn't take any issue with them. In fact, it might be one of the best parts because we've spent so much time theorizing what was actually going on and things were getting borderline complicated. The resolutions were a great way to tie things together and subvert all the theories at the same time.
That's fair! It's definitely a more positive way to look at it!
My final test to decide if I like a movie or show, is "would I watch it again?" I have seen season 1 three times, and seasons 2 & 3 I have seen twice each. That sums up exactly what they did for me. But I would not watch this season again. So I guess I liked it the least.
The oranges, the tongue, the pointing, the one eyed polar bear, the scared men that dies before freezing to death, their burnt eyes, meant nothing? How disappointing.
Season 1 is still the best, I think most agree on that. This season was good, but as was brought up here, several things not making sense, and the end rushed to close it up.
The thing I was thinking through every episode was how cold it was there. I don't think temperature was ever mentioned, but to have the characters walking around outside with their jackets unzipped and their faces uncovered didn't seem realistic. Especially this last episode, when Liz fell into the water, and Navarro pulling her out. They were just lying on the ice, where Liz would have gotten frost bite after just coming out of the water. Earlier in the episode, after the generator died, they were worried about freezing to death before Liz even going in the water.
Speaking of the generator, that wasn't really explained. Navarro was watching Clarke as Liz took a break, then all of a sudden the power was out, Liz had frozen breath in the room she was sleeping in, and all of the lights were off. Liz then finds Navarro outside with Clarke frozen in the snow and accuses Navarro of letting Clarke go and turning off the generator. But Navarro said she didn't turn it off. So did that mean she didn't let Clarke go either? Not very clear what happened for me.
Now, Clarke was dead, and Liz said they had no proof of what the mine was doing with the intentional polluting of the permafrost. Liz and Navarro go to the women to ask if they knew who killed Annie, and Liz goes with the mine's story of a weather event killing the men, and no one is to blame for their death. As mentioned here, a little rushed, as well as convenient.
Two last things I'm thinking about now as I go over it in my head. Hank meeting with the woman from the mine (sorry, forgot her name), who pretty much asked him to kill Heiss. He says to her that he is not a killer, but then shows up at Liz's place, kills Heiss, and would have killed Liz if his son didn't shoot him. The second thing was the taped confession from Clarke. When was this given? When Liz and Navarro found him, Navarro beat the crap out of him and taped him into the chair. He was a bloody mess after that until he froze. But the video shows him in clean clothes, with injuries, but he was cleaned up and sitting in a chair with no restraints. How did Navarro get this video?
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk, I'm done (for now).
it was decent but I was upset about the undercutting of the spiral symbol from season 1 and a few things were rushed, needed more episodes
Yeah same here! The S1 connections were just a bit pointless
So the spiral meant nothing? We were edged this entire season
Pretty much! Was just a tattoo
They need to stop giving once great projects to feminist activist directors and writers.
There is this repetitive theme that all white men are bad and stupid.
It gets very old and predictable.
Plus, I think it goes against who is their audience that’s watching this. I would think the majority of people watching true Detective are probably white men. So always representing your base audience as evil and dumb is probably not the best idea.
Side note: Imagine being told the cure for cancer was found but a girl destroyed it all because it was polluting a small town in Alaska. Have the government temporarily move the people out of the town so we can cure cancer. 🤷♂
Dude this was some dumb captain plant shit. We can save the world but we need precious pollution!!!! Bwa ha ha!!! (Twirl mustache)
Never explained the tongue.
Clark's video left for Danvers had him clean without any blood on his face.
They never explained the spiral fossilized creature in the caves.
The scientists wouldn't have froze in the terrified position.
100% truth
The biggest question I have is the baby crying at the wheeler house. What happened to it?
No witnesses ☠️☠️☠️
Ha, ha, THAT's your biggest question?? What about how Annie's tongue ended up at the Tsalal plant- Who put it there? The baby cryng at the Wheeler house didn't even have anything to do with the plot or mystery in any way. What happened?- what always happens: The State tries to find next of kin who would be willing to adopt it, a Grandparent, Aunt, etc. If they can't find that, the baby goes into the foster system and ends up getting adopted by someone. Yes, the ladies were shocked when they heard the baby cry, but only because they weren't expecting it at all. And the shock of the fact that there was yet another extremely vulnerable being living under the same Wheeler roof, that of a very violent man. The baby cring really doesn't mean much more than the fact that it was a big surprise to them.
Evangeline was wearing a darker jacket in the final scene darker than the one she wore when she walked out to the ice 😮