FAQ: Use the High Output battery on the M18: The Flex is using the battery it comes in a kit with, and the M18 is too. Both brands also have 21700 cell packs as options additionally, M18 has High Output, Flex has their 8ah - that's a separate test but we dont suspect it will go M18's way. The purpose of the channel has always been to test vs the specs these brands advertise, and they advertise those specs with the batteries shown here. These drivers' brushless motors are about as thick as a pencil, it's unlikely peak amps are its limiting factor but you can watch our episode 18 if you want to see the difference it makes with all M18 batteries. ruclips.net/video/ky5YRjz9lvc/видео.html You guys are shills, and that's why Flex won: We have no way to make $ off of Lowes or Flex or you clicking on them - but link has been removed anyways. They way to rank higher on this channel is to make more torque, the dyno spits out what it spits out. How could you give Flex 1st place if it overheated? Its rank is based on its power runs, and all of its power runs were quite high. See our Vibrotherm or HF compact impact videos, we've always still ranked the tools even if we experience hiccups. On future episodes you'll just see these notes for the tool that it had X problem in its comments. Its up to you to qualify that info as it's not easily quantified on a chart. What's with the tool's price you gave it? There's comments that the price given is too high AND this price is too low. We've had to do this on 2 previous tools on our rank chart as well when they do not sell it as a bare tool. It's an imperfect system, but the one that's worked best for comparing the 40+ tools we've tested so far. Until Lowes sells these a la carte, they're leaving it up to us which we think the Flex gets dinged here. But a 24V battery only has 1 more 18650 cell than an 18V? These are double row 5ah packs, you need that +1 cell in each row.
Thanks for the info about the battery. Just as there are no standards for torque testing there's no standards for battery voltage apparently. One persons 18v is another's 20vMAXX.
@@JohnHenryEdenUSA In the EU there is and DeWalt has to re-brand and label all of their tools and batteries, new stickers over their 60V flexvolt that say 54volts.
@@christophertinal5176 That's just a home depot bogo deal, there's no part number from Milwaukee with this tool and a HO battery to our knowledge. Otherwise we would have used one since we do have almost all of them.
I think the industry is already at the point where the 1/4" collet is becoming the limiting factor on how much power you can get out of an impact driver. What's the point of having more power when all your doing is breaking bits left and right.
I have indeed broken quite a bit of bits, extensions, screws, bolts, and adapters with my Milwaukee.... so I got a Makita sub compact for the “finer” stuff.
@@lonedesertfox, if I’m not driving lags all day I use the Milwaukee M12 Fuel Gen 2 Impact. It’s a light weight, powerful little impact, but allows the finessing needed with a lot of projects.
@@martylucas8557 I hear ya. My M12 impact has served me so well that I just recently bought a 2nd one. Has never let me down and I have beat the daylights out of it day in and day out. Also: that little guy also drives lags so......
Milwaukee and Dewalt do make a 7/16 collet “driver”. In the Milwaukee’s case, it looks like they use the high torque wrench to power it. It’s generally something sold to linesman to run their ship augers and large lags through the power poles etc.. and Milwaukee makes 7/16” quick lock extensions, hole saw arbors, ship augers and a few other things.
Upgraded from an older 18v kit. ruclips.net/user/postUgkxW1vOBRCMrgTCDEijzpVzDWsgI-Jm2iQv I independently chose the drill and impact tool, before I came across the kit.I like the 3 speed impact gun. It seems more powerful than my older one, and it can be set to be really gentle. The drill is more appropriately sized for my use. I used to have a hammer drill, but I did not like that it was so big and it was not a great hammer drill. I rather have a smaller drill like this, and then get a corded hammer drill for the odd case I need that.
@@martylucas8557 Hmm, that's a good question, Marty. Prior to starting my channel, I had Ryobi and Makita tools. I would personally stick with Makita for impacts because I am already in their battery platform. I think this impact is overkill for DIYers or "professional homeowners" like myself. And, if you're a contractor doing moderate-to-heavy work, maybe a little past what this impact is meant for, and it overheats and shuts down, it appears that it won't serve you well, either. If you're a carpenter building decks, fences, etc. and you use a lot of screws vs. nails, then this would be a good tool. Back to your original question -- no, I would not buy for personal use. Too expensive, too heavy, and not worth buying into the line as of May 2021. Once it's been out for a while, tool selection is expanded, bare tools become available, and promotions start happening, I may change my hypothetical answer.
I work on the railroad and all we use is Milwaukee impacts. I’ve had my issued (Milwaukee fuel half inch drive) since 2015. I use it 5 days a week, and I use it a lot each day, never have I ever had the slightest problem, it’s a beast. I’d recommend this tool to everyone.
@@LouieG777 wow, as sad as it may sound, it never crossed my mind that there is should be massive ongoing upkeep on rail cars. Sounds interesting. I almost said it sounds cool, but I thought about it and I figured that the novelty of working on a train or rail car probably rubs off real fast just like any "cool" job seems until you are doing it every day for years
@@highjix lol you definitely hit the nail on the head, however out of all my jobs I’ve had this one is by far my favorite despite the list of negatives that I’ll leave off due to my employer’s online social media policy. Never know when they’re watching 👀 lol
@@LouieG777 I understand, I used to work for AT&T and I didn't have a social media presence at all because we knew for a fact they where watching and I didn't want to take the chance of them catching me bad mouthing them, but since I got laid off I can talk all the shit about them I want now!
The 1/4” hex interface has effectively hit its ceiling. There’s simply no more need for more power in impact drivers. Milwaukee already should if anything roll back, they aren’t even the only brand that has gotten to this point, and Flexvolt basically just had tunnel vision releasing this tool with the torque it has thinking beating Milwaukee was going to be the be-all end-all. Makita has had the right idea all along, limiting their impact drivers to around 150lbft and focusing instead on power delivery, ergonomics, and features. If you need more than what the stoutest 1/4” adapters can withstand, get a damn 3/8” or 1/2” impact wrench already. These formats exist for a reason. Adapters to use 1/2” sockets on impact drivers are meant as quick fixes when you don’t have an impact wrench handy, not as their status quo utility.
Good point. Anyone needing consistent high torque all the time would be using an impact wrench anyway and a Big Box Store brand has no shot of breaking into the industrial tool market when other companies base their whole model around it. On the consumer and pro-sumer side no one wants to be snapping and stripping heads all day for no reason.
@@Mike-nn3tf it’s not a Lowe’s brand, it’s a Lowe’s partner and despite being new in the American market as a general tool supplier - (they’ve been *the* leader in grinding, masonry, and polishing tools here forever) - they’ve been a stalwart in the European tool market for as long as anybody has been in any tool market.
Jack Alope I understand they have a history in Europe but I’m speaking from the point of view of an American consumer. We have never heard of them before, their distribution is only through one big box store, and their price point is up with higher end consumer tools that we have history with. Flex shouldn’t have anticipated that their international reputation would precede them when our market is already inundated with brands.
@@g33xzi11a Oddly enough, I live and work in the UK and have not heard of Flex tools (maybe they are differently named) and for years they have been trying to tell us we are part of Europe( pointlessly,)
@@Mike-nn3tf but the statement that they are a big box store brand is wrong. That’s what I was addressing.They currently have an exclusive retail partnership with a big box store, but they aren’t owned or licensed by that company. But so do lots of companies. Is Phillips a big box store brand because of their exclusive/near exclusive partnership with Home Depot? Is Milwaukee?
So you're running straight Chinese? 🤣 All joking aside, as long as it works for you it's whatever. I use Makita, but not the green death, I use the red ones straight from the land of the rising sun. Skookum as frig. 👍🏻
@@operator8014 most professionals would opt to use an adequate tool in that scenario rather than maxing out any of these impact drivers or risking snapping adapter bits.
@@arcchannel6912 Red, blue or yellow are all good choices and is down the brand preference. I love my milwaukee products but my buddies has all dewault and when I use his stuff I really don't notice a difference.
You could probably get any impact to do it. When it happened to me, I was well past the intended application of a 1/4" impact driver -- 1/2" x 10" lag in a really hard wood stump. But among Makita LXT, Makita XGT, Metabo HPT, Kobalt XTR, Milwaukee Fuel, Dewalt XR, and Flex -- only the Flex and Dewalt spewed melted grease, and DeWalt was a tiny amount inside the collet compared to the Flex covering the socket adapter and back of the socket in it.
@@PhillyFixed I agree. I wish someone could get these companies to give them some and run them to fail. My biggest concern is never who screws in a bolt the fastest, but who will take the abuse the longest.
I would love to see where the Kobalt XTR 1/4 impact driver stands. Especially since there made by the same company as Flex for Lowes. Plus I think the XTR is rated at 2400 inch pounds. Both being 24 volt at two wildly different price points.
Good information. As with anything, competition is always good and I'm glad to see Flex come to market even if I'm not considering them at this time. I think they are going to need to address their heat problems as well as their kit cost issues before people really start to take them seriously though. I can run my makita impact full tilt just about all day in 90+ degree heat. Based on this test I would be using a screw driver most of the day if I was relying on the flex to cool down.
Thanks, DynoMike! TTC is scientific, meanwhile I'm like "hmm let's drive an obnoxiously large lag into a stump with the wrong tool for the job and see what happens" 🤣
But the Ridgid stuff is getting better all the time. I've got their rolling miter saw table & it makes the one from Milwaukee, Bosch. Dewalt, & Makita look like lightweight Junk.
@@ronaiosa126 You're wrong as far as the HDs in Florida go. They have Ridgid stuff all over their stores and in their online listings. I have a Pro account and there are most Ridgid tools on there
@@codyschmidtmann3992 depends on the agreement they have between Chervon and Lowe’s. The fact HD doesn’t carry EGO anymore and will never carry Skil says to me they will never sell and distribute Flex. It directly competes against TTI and HD is very committed to that relationship. So, the only other national distribution option with the buying power to influence the market is Lowe’s. Anyone who carries EGO or Skil would be your potential options for future sellers of Flex. Maybe Menards considering they have a relationship with Chervon for Masterforce Power tool manufacturing? Menards is notoriously cheap though. They don’t market their products heavily, their advertising methods are cheap, and they have a small selection in power tools compared to HD and Lowe’s. One side of one aisle only unless you’re by some monster Menards. They would need to cut out other brands to fit Flex. They could cut out Black and Decker though. They don’t carry Craftsman (anymore) or Dewalt. Beef up Skil, add Flex, grow Masterforce, cut Black and Decker? I don’t hate Menards by the way haha I go all the time 😂
First off, I just wanted to let ya'll know how much I LOVE your channel. I've really learned a lot from your tests and I'm extremely excited that you're expanding to lights too. Hope you guys can expand even more one day as objective test data is something the tools industry just seems to lack for some reason. I mean why there isn't a standard on how "nut busting" is measured blows my mind, especially with how much some companies abuse this in marketing. As for the these tests I have some thoughts. While I realize "reliability" would be a relatively subjective metric, I really do think it should be factored into the number score somehow even though the comments currently capture it. Maybe a "reliability/consistency" column rated 1-10 (or whatever range you think is appropriate) would be a good addition. As tools that can't consistently make the same torque shouldn't top any ranking chart even with an "asterisks"/comment IMO. As for the price even though I understand the concept that it should be cheaper if/when you can buy it by itself, until that is something you can actually do, I really struggle to see how you can give it a price of anything but 250
Miguel, you don’t need to get defensive! It is what it is. Project Farms’s recommendation for an adapter was a huge fail! He makes a lot of money doing those tests. If it means revamping his test rigs he should consider it, because at this point people are questioning results, at least I am.
@@martylucas8557 You see him (PF) breaking the Bosch in his tests even though it reaches a very high torque. The Bosch wasn't PF's recommendation, if I recall correctly. TTC stated that their rational was to use the Bosch to see if the short shank would help reduce losses due to adapter length.
The Project Farm test used a smaller 1 1/8" socket which might be why the adapters snapped at a smaller measured value in this test using the larger socket.
You need the high output for the impact drivers! I use them daily and it is a world of difference - Milwaukee advertises 50% increase and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s correct
You told me to come over here to see why you haven't really featured the surge impacts from Milwaukee. And now I see why! Thank you! It would have taken me a while to finally land on this video. Mostly because I thought that I saw this one. Regardless of how your tests don't always agree, I super appreciate that you and project farm sorta overlap and shout out like this.
That’s been the point I’ve been trying to drive h9me about the Flex, it’s not tried and true like the Milwaukee Fuel Gen 3 Impact. The Gen 3 has an impressive track record of around 3 years competing against all competitors. Winning the majority of those tool tests, not to mention the overall reliability, which has been excellent!
Hey, y'all. Hopefully I'm not the only one, but I'd like to see more 12v drivers! I find them to be the most useful of all. They fit just about anywhere.
Not sure how it would go, but you could potentially try welding a 1/2” nut to one of the bolts and using a nut driver in the impact drivers, eliminating the adapter. Either way, you’re still dealing with the 1/4” shank, so maybe that wouldn’t make that much difference.
I have a surge, a compact m18 driver, and a mid torque impact wrench . The surge is fantastic, however it does not like larger type fastener(6 inch headlok for example). It's a great tool for most work. My Traditional impact is more for tapcon that surge can't handle. My new mid torque is unstoppable, so I got a 1/2 inch to 1/4 adaptor... so now it's my driver too(a very heavy driver)
Heck yea man. I've been looking forward to 1/4 impact tests! I'm super interested to see how the Kobalt KXID 1424A-03 and the Ryobi PBLID02 perform if you ever test them down the line.
I have an m12 surge impact driver... From what I've experienced; it won't continue to "hammer" if there isn't any (or barely any) rotation of the output shaft/chuck. I'm assuming this has something to do with the inlet/outlet requirements of the fluid. Based on Milwaukees info on how the system works, it won't have the peak torque of a standard hammer/anvil setup as the info shows lower torque sustained for a longer period of time.
Good video as usual ! How hard are Bosch adapters compared to others? In the notes for Flex, I think you forgot "reliable?" would it be possible to try battery-powered impact drills?
Hi, excellent video ty so much, I’m staying with Milwaukee it’s been on the market for ever and has a strong reputation, the flex is new and for me way over priced, excellent demonstration as always ty, Bob Frate,
@@wadelujan8714 Flex is overpriced when you don’t have an option to buy bare tools from them. Some people have batteries and chargers and don’t want to feel like they’re paying extra for another set of batteries and a charger.
Milwaukee Gen 4 impact driver will be released soon enough and it will be on another level by itself once again. I choose reliability of power any day.
Flex is not technically new. They’ve been making these kinds of tools in Europe for as long as Milwaukee has been doing so here. So they’re only new to Americans. Milwaukee wouldn’t suddenly become a bad brand if it went overseas where it’s completely unheard of.
Try the Husky adapters. Them fellas are beefy. Plus when you break a handful which is inevitable you can bring them back to Home Depot for replacements.
Nice to see everyday guys honestly testing tools, it's so hard wading through the mud on RUclips when it comes to tool testing. I like the science behind the testing with the odd joke/slang words for fun. I'm watching from the UK and I've never heard anyone say uggah duggahs before and I'm 15 years in the motor industry, so I've started saying it to my work colleagues and it's definitely now our new torque measurement! I'm a snap on guy and I use a lot of sub compacts from snap on i.e 14.4 v 1/4 impact driver and screw gun/driver. I'm interested to know how they compare to Milwaukee/DeWalt/Makita equivalent? Could I have saved money or is my money well spent?
The one key test point missing is a Heat index. There is no way I'd want a tool that went that hot and is obviously damaging itself because Lowes decided to not include a heat-cutoff relay (probably the only reason the tool scored so well).
The Flex does have thermal protections, it's why the Flex impacts can go into thermal shutdown, and how the turbo drills can lock out turbo when they don't have thermal headroom. The "sensor free" marketing refers to the lack of Hall effect sensors, which just determines position, speed, and direction of the rotor, which can be done in a few ways.
something i've found to help temps a bit is running a tool without any load. just by cooling the motor a lot and running it seems to cool the impact head much faster than just letting it sit there.
Gotta understand from a marketing perspective Flex is brilliant by taking advantage of the release by forcing you to buy additional batteries. To me that says they intend on releasing more products in the near future or at least annually that people will purchase because they’re on the platform now. You’re only on the platform based on the batteries you have in hand and that did it. So basically now if you purchased Flex tools you have extra batteries and on your next purchase that really narrows the competition down to just them and who ever else you used prior. Smart move.
There really needs to be an adoption of like 5/16 or 3/8 drive bits with these new impact being able to provide so much throughput. Maybe a design that has a 1/4 for the first 25mm of the shaft then a 3/8 size for the shaft after with chucks that could accept a deeper bit.
One thing I haven’t been seeing on other tool test channels are cordless drills holding up to drilling through steel. Yes of course a drill is going to have no problem going through wood no matter what bits your using. I think making them drill through steel is more of an endurance test battery and tool wise. Maybe some new content content for the channel when it comes to cordless drills?
I second this suggestion, it would be great to see who makes the best cordless "hole hawg". It wouldn't even be more than one video as there are just three current manufacturers of 1/2 drive right angle cordless drills. As far as I can tell it's just Milwaukee, DeWalt, and Makita now. I own the Ridgid Megamax right angle drill myself and it's a beast but it is discontinued from the Home Depot website although you can still buy it from DirectToolsOutlet
I just bought a flex and love it. Charges super fast and has great power and run time. But if I’m being honest I just wanted a good looking tool that performs well. I don’t push it to the limit by drilling a 2 inch bolt. Ever. I’m a glazier and just need a decent tool every now and then when I put in a frameless shower or do curtain wall. I was a Milwaukee guy for years and now that I’ve switched I don’t see much of a difference other than one is new and one is old.
That's a real shame about the M18 Surge. I have the M12 Surge and really like it for driving screws and such. Through my non-scientific testing of tools I've used, I was impressed with the Makita LXT subcompact impact driver but it is loud. I'm pretty sure the various hydraulic drivers on the market are weaker than their traditional brothers but I've often wondered which was the most powerful and how much are you giving up switching to the quieter tool.
Real quick about hydraulic impacts they tend to hit very hard very quickly but lose all of their power under serious load. I use makita and have their xdt16 and the oil impulse driver and the oil driver will almost always driver faster than the xdt16 but when driving something like a 8" Timberlok the xdt will beat. It's weird how it goes but they aren't really like impacts but very useful for 3-4" screws and under and improve quality of life quite a lot imo.
This is a great example of a company sacrificing reliability and quality for more power. Power sells to the layman. A professional that has to use the tool for hours at a time, every day will choose the Milwaukee or a Dewalt over the Flex every single time. I did.
@@wadelujan8714 as cool as flex is I can't see it being used on a job if it overheats so fast and you have to wait almost an hour to use it for like 15 minutes
I recommend maybe putting a slit for a flat head or torx bolt in your set up so you don’t have to use adapters and can just use bits, they don’t snap like them adapters do lol.
Same here, my gen 3 fell 2 stories onto hard concrete a few times (then decided to get a lanyard lol), it has been left out in the snow, extreme cold, rain and still works like the day I bought it. Even my other fuel tools have had the crap kicked out of it and it doesn't miss a beat.
Over at shop tool reviews he uses a husky 3/8 adpater vs the 1/2. I have seen him break a 1/2 adapter but not the 3/8 one yet. I know the size of your bolt is a limiting factor but might be something to consider.
At this point we're getting into ridiculous territory, I have the DeWalt DCF 887 and never use it on speed 3 apart from driving in lag bolts, for screws speed 2 is already so quick that I don't go all at once but in short bursts, and the DeWalt is an almost 10 year design, much behind the Milwaukee in terms of power, too much impact force shortens the life of bits and makes it more probable to sheer off the heads off fasteners. As others have mentioned, these tools are stronger than the 1/4" hex drive can physically survive, so what's the point?
With the abundance of tool manufactures and all the outrageous claims Im grateful for AvE for doing in-depth tear downs, project farm doing lots of testing on many daily use trade items, and I have become a subscriber of your channel as well MR. Torque, I appreciate your points system and multiple metric break down. Gone are the days of chucking 2 drills together and seeing which one smokes, I need real data where I can choose on the metric that matters most to my application, flex seems good for auto guys that do other things where Milwaukee seems like a good all around driver slightly cheaper than the flex but not a throw away tool at all. Im still rocking the 2013 dewalt drill driver set for my daily use tools (mostly carpentry) and Im ready to do a deep clean and bearing/brush change on them but I also have the new tool itch and im doing my research now. I appreciate your work and video content Sir!
Speaking of impact guns just stopping dewalt dcf 887 stops if you put massive load on it. Doesn’t over heat it just tries for couple seconds then electrically cuts out, trying to put 6mm shank screws in 5.5mm hole in concrete it gets so far then refuses to rattle once you stoped making progress, so I think testing these is going to be hard work for you, best of luck :D
This is the only reason I don’t like impact driver’s. You would think they would make the adapter and quick change larger to compensate for the amount of torque it can put out. I stick with impacts with 3/8” or 1/4” collets.
Im split between Ryobi and Milwaukee for my cordless power tools, and my main impact driver is actually the Ryobi R18IDBL (Europistan and Australia only iirc). Ive tried Milwaukees, but landed on this one because its cheaper, light, feels good in the hand and with its 270nm I really cant tell if its less powerful than the M18. Suprisingly it lost several tests on youtube to the US version, which on paper has less torque, but it probably has more RPM, but oh well.
After seeing this video, I’m gonna be getting a new flex driver and compare it with my buddies Milwaukee and dewalt impacts. Seems like it has good potential for some automotive use.
Looking at the curves, I think the bit adapters are functioning like torque sticks. But that also makes me wonder, how the hell would it be possible to test torque above a certain level with these tools having such small drives, and them already being powerful enough to break almost every extension in existence? I think the horsepower race has basically died before it got off the line.
Nice work. Milwaukee is a formidable tool. Although RIDGID tools may not outperform these other tools, there's something about a "LIFETIME SERVICE AGREEMENT" that just tickles my fancy. Any tool that s*** the bed on a test doesn't belong in a tradesman's tool box. Hay, shout out to Project Farm. We hang in the same places! Thanks
Most of these 1/4” tools are designed for jobs requiring 30 ft lbs or so, usually less. Fun to see what they can do, but kind of like seeing how much weight a Honda Ridgeline can tow before failure.
You should really get a 6.0ah High Output battery for the M18 Fuel to maximize the power and potential of the tool. It makes a very noticeable difference.
Started with ryobi LONG ago then graduated to rigid then thought I was spending alot going with Milwaukees m12 but good grief only reason I get new models is to upgrade! Have only had 1- 6ah battery break and it was the cheesy retainer clips, tape the bitch on and it still ran all my m12 tools. They're doing it right. Nice to have something that won't pull down my pants when I hang it on my pocket. Damn decent tool
Interesting, so far, that impact drivers torque claims seem realistic where torque wrenches are not. I wonder if this trend will continue or it was just coincidence with these two?
We're curious about that as well. Perhaps impact drivers are just early in the tool world and still accurately marketed where as impact wrenches have had 50 years to get to crazy numbers?
Both are more than strong enough for what they should be used for, imho. If you are hammering against a bolt with so little movement in the real world, you go get a bigger impact. For milwaukee, they have multiple choices, for flex, you have ONE, their high torque. Its good to see more competition, but flex needs a mid torque asap. Interesting about kit tools only, thanks for putting that in there.
I commented about making a custom adaptor...my only issue is, that most of the time, well all of the time, they break in the small area either RIGHT out of the 1/4 hex or a bit past it. So unless somebody can get some super good strong metal and make it nice and tough theres not much to beef it up i guess. The 1/4 hex can't get bigger only maybe stronger with materials. Seems like that this point, you might as well just have either an impact, or do what Man caver did and put an anvil in it. Would be nice to have one of the uh...Hex/1/2 anvils for both sockets and bits. The oil yeah that's a no from me too dog lol
6.0Ah vs 6.0Ah please... this comparison is 90Wh vs 144Wh. I would hope the FLEX could put more power down with that kinda power advantage. You could at least let the M18 have it's High Output if it's gotta go against a 24V system
The 5.0 and 6.0 Milwaukee make about the same power. The 5.0 all the way to the 12.0 make it. They use the same batteries all rated at the same amp discharge rate. All the ah rating says is how long the battery can run. The Milwaukee uses a either 25 or 35 amp discharge rate battery from Samsung. Makita uses a 20 amp discharge rate from Sony......
You mean, let the M18 run a battery that drains its storage twice as fast? Then when FLEX eventually uses a high output, you’ll cry unfair again. LOL. These are two tools with what comes out of the box.
Love the reviews guys thanks.. I did have one question if you could find a m18 1/4inch impact driver that says "brushless" (it's basically almost the same as the fuel was the model I think they made right before they came up with the fuel line or I may be wrong..... and vs it the m18 v3 fuel 1/4inch impact u have here...
No, that’s not the case. The Milwaukee snapped the “adapter”, which is not really a bit, it holds sockets or bits. The Milwaukee Gen 3 Fuel Impact has been around for about 3 years, so that pretty much nullifies your irrelevancy claim. What it does bring into question is Project Farm’s testing, because the Bosch adapters really suck!
@@martylucas8557 You see how much effort and time project farm puts into his videos and he's incredibly transparent and explains how each test is done. It's not his testing buddy.
@@renski8976, are you getting a cut of the 1M + $’s in revenue his channel gens? He owes it to his viewership to step the testing up. The Bosch bit snapping multiple times out of the gate during the Torque Channel Testing, yet being a top rated adapter by Project Farm, is a good example of where the stress test needs to stepped up.
The channel is called "Torque Test" so I'll cut you some slack on your rankings. In real life, power matters, but it's not the only think that matters. There is also reliability (short and long term) as well as ergonomics, that matter at least as much to someone who uses them all day, day after day. Why doesn't Milwaukee standardize on a 60-amp battery platform? That would be a lot more powerful than anything but DeWalt FlexVolt. The answer is simple and obvious, and why overpowered tools may have their place, but are fundamentally limited by their ergonomic negatives. We all have a big brute of a drill in a drawer somewhere, and we occasionally bring it out when needed, but we don't use it unless we have to. I think Flex is whistling past the graveyard on this topic, and hoping nobody notices. As for reliability, that's the silent killer. Every time a tool dies or makes you wish that it would, you make a decision. Am I going to buy another tool that has 20% more top-end torque that I almost never need, or am I going to get something reliable and stash an overpowered corded tool somewhere in case I do need it? I think there's a place for Flex and that some will find that it fits their bill nicely, but impact wrenches aside, there is probably is probably an amount of torque that is enough for a tool, with any more simply enabling the tool to break things you don't want broken.
With all the torque now days in these things, might be time for makers to figure out how to put a 1/4 inch drive collar over a 1/4 inch or 3/8 inch anvil. So you can use it both ways with no adapter. Just remove the 1/4 inch interface and you have a impact wrench.
FAQ:
Use the High Output battery on the M18: The Flex is using the battery it comes in a kit with, and the M18 is too. Both brands also have 21700 cell packs as options additionally, M18 has High Output, Flex has their 8ah - that's a separate test but we dont suspect it will go M18's way. The purpose of the channel has always been to test vs the specs these brands advertise, and they advertise those specs with the batteries shown here. These drivers' brushless motors are about as thick as a pencil, it's unlikely peak amps are its limiting factor but you can watch our episode 18 if you want to see the difference it makes with all M18 batteries. ruclips.net/video/ky5YRjz9lvc/видео.html
You guys are shills, and that's why Flex won: We have no way to make $ off of Lowes or Flex or you clicking on them - but link has been removed anyways. They way to rank higher on this channel is to make more torque, the dyno spits out what it spits out.
How could you give Flex 1st place if it overheated? Its rank is based on its power runs, and all of its power runs were quite high. See our Vibrotherm or HF compact impact videos, we've always still ranked the tools even if we experience hiccups. On future episodes you'll just see these notes for the tool that it had X problem in its comments. Its up to you to qualify that info as it's not easily quantified on a chart.
What's with the tool's price you gave it? There's comments that the price given is too high AND this price is too low. We've had to do this on 2 previous tools on our rank chart as well when they do not sell it as a bare tool. It's an imperfect system, but the one that's worked best for comparing the 40+ tools we've tested so far. Until Lowes sells these a la carte, they're leaving it up to us which we think the Flex gets dinged here.
But a 24V battery only has 1 more 18650 cell than an 18V? These are double row 5ah packs, you need that +1 cell in each row.
Some people just don't know. Great test but I do think impact drivers do need a different test imo.
Thanks for the info about the battery. Just as there are no standards for torque testing there's no standards for battery voltage apparently. One persons 18v is another's 20vMAXX.
@@JohnHenryEdenUSA In the EU there is and DeWalt has to re-brand and label all of their tools and batteries, new stickers over their 60V flexvolt that say 54volts.
The milwaukee technically comes in a kit with two 6.0s right now for 299.
@@christophertinal5176 That's just a home depot bogo deal, there's no part number from Milwaukee with this tool and a HO battery to our knowledge. Otherwise we would have used one since we do have almost all of them.
I think the industry is already at the point where the 1/4" collet is becoming the limiting factor on how much power you can get out of an impact driver. What's the point of having more power when all your doing is breaking bits left and right.
That’s just a ridiculous comment... LOL!
I have indeed broken quite a bit of bits, extensions, screws, bolts, and adapters with my Milwaukee.... so I got a Makita sub compact for the “finer” stuff.
@@lonedesertfox, if I’m not driving lags all day I use the Milwaukee M12 Fuel Gen 2 Impact. It’s a light weight, powerful little impact, but allows the finessing needed with a lot of projects.
@@martylucas8557 I hear ya. My M12 impact has served me so well that I just recently bought a 2nd one. Has never let me down and I have beat the daylights out of it day in and day out. Also: that little guy also drives lags so......
Milwaukee and Dewalt do make a 7/16 collet “driver”.
In the Milwaukee’s case, it looks like they use the high torque wrench to power it. It’s generally something sold to linesman to run their ship augers and large lags through the power poles etc..
and Milwaukee makes 7/16” quick lock extensions, hole saw arbors, ship augers and a few other things.
Upgraded from an older 18v kit. ruclips.net/user/postUgkxW1vOBRCMrgTCDEijzpVzDWsgI-Jm2iQv I independently chose the drill and impact tool, before I came across the kit.I like the 3 speed impact gun. It seems more powerful than my older one, and it can be set to be really gentle. The drill is more appropriately sized for my use. I used to have a hammer drill, but I did not like that it was so big and it was not a great hammer drill. I rather have a smaller drill like this, and then get a corded hammer drill for the odd case I need that.
It was actually still hot when the mailman dropped off the box after you shipped it back... 🤣
Lol
Did you do a tear down after the oil/grease leakage?
@@Drundel Nope, I mailed it over to TTC so he could do this video! I may do a teardown at some point.
Philly, that being the case with the Flex impact, would you be comfortable purchasing one for your own personal use?
@@martylucas8557 Hmm, that's a good question, Marty. Prior to starting my channel, I had Ryobi and Makita tools. I would personally stick with Makita for impacts because I am already in their battery platform. I think this impact is overkill for DIYers or "professional homeowners" like myself. And, if you're a contractor doing moderate-to-heavy work, maybe a little past what this impact is meant for, and it overheats and shuts down, it appears that it won't serve you well, either. If you're a carpenter building decks, fences, etc. and you use a lot of screws vs. nails, then this would be a good tool.
Back to your original question -- no, I would not buy for personal use. Too expensive, too heavy, and not worth buying into the line as of May 2021. Once it's been out for a while, tool selection is expanded, bare tools become available, and promotions start happening, I may change my hypothetical answer.
I work on the railroad and all we use is Milwaukee impacts. I’ve had my issued (Milwaukee fuel half inch drive) since 2015. I use it 5 days a week, and I use it a lot each day, never have I ever had the slightest problem, it’s a beast. I’d recommend this tool to everyone.
this is an old old post, but I am curious, what do you do on the rail road with your impact?
@@highjix repair railcars lots of nuts and bolts of all sizes
@@LouieG777 wow, as sad as it may sound, it never crossed my mind that there is should be massive ongoing upkeep on rail cars.
Sounds interesting. I almost said it sounds cool, but I thought about it and I figured that the novelty of working on a train or rail car probably rubs off real fast just like any "cool" job seems until you are doing it every day for years
@@highjix lol you definitely hit the nail on the head, however out of all my jobs I’ve had this one is by far my favorite despite the list of negatives that I’ll leave off due to my employer’s online social media policy. Never know when they’re watching 👀 lol
@@LouieG777 I understand, I used to work for AT&T and I didn't have a social media presence at all because we knew for a fact they where watching and I didn't want to take the chance of them catching me bad mouthing them, but since I got laid off I can talk all the shit about them I want now!
The clear winner here: DeWalt. Flex and Milwaukee both sold one tool. DeWalt sold a *ton* of adapters!
This guy gets it
The 1/4” hex interface has effectively hit its ceiling. There’s simply no more need for more power in impact drivers. Milwaukee already should if anything roll back, they aren’t even the only brand that has gotten to this point, and Flexvolt basically just had tunnel vision releasing this tool with the torque it has thinking beating Milwaukee was going to be the be-all end-all. Makita has had the right idea all along, limiting their impact drivers to around 150lbft and focusing instead on power delivery, ergonomics, and features.
If you need more than what the stoutest 1/4” adapters can withstand, get a damn 3/8” or 1/2” impact wrench already. These formats exist for a reason. Adapters to use 1/2” sockets on impact drivers are meant as quick fixes when you don’t have an impact wrench handy, not as their status quo utility.
Good point. Anyone needing consistent high torque all the time would be using an impact wrench anyway and a Big Box Store brand has no shot of breaking into the industrial tool market when other companies base their whole model around it. On the consumer and pro-sumer side no one wants to be snapping and stripping heads all day for no reason.
@@Mike-nn3tf it’s not a Lowe’s brand, it’s a Lowe’s partner and despite being new in the American market as a general tool supplier - (they’ve been *the* leader in grinding, masonry, and polishing tools here forever) - they’ve been a stalwart in the European tool market for as long as anybody has been in any tool market.
Jack Alope I understand they have a history in Europe but I’m speaking from the point of view of an American consumer. We have never heard of them before, their distribution is only through one big box store, and their price point is up with higher end consumer tools that we have history with. Flex shouldn’t have anticipated that their international reputation would precede them when our market is already inundated with brands.
@@g33xzi11a Oddly enough, I live and work in the UK and have not heard of Flex tools (maybe they are differently named) and for years they have been trying to tell us we are part of Europe( pointlessly,)
@@Mike-nn3tf but the statement that they are a big box store brand is wrong. That’s what I was addressing.They currently have an exclusive retail partnership with a big box store, but they aren’t owned or licensed by that company. But so do lots of companies. Is Phillips a big box store brand because of their exclusive/near exclusive partnership with Home Depot? Is Milwaukee?
heat kills. that flex will be a brick before too long
I live in Milwaukee, and my arsenal will continue to reflect that.
So you run Chicago Electric? :B
The holy land
So you're running straight Chinese? 🤣
All joking aside, as long as it works for you it's whatever. I use Makita, but not the green death, I use the red ones straight from the land of the rising sun. Skookum as frig. 👍🏻
In "thee project farm test" haha
Both channels are excellent
It appears the Flex is a bad design! Max torque doesn't matter if it has to cool down for 30 min before you can use it again!
My thoughts excatly id rather have 15 less ftlbs and be able todo 2x the amount if not more.
Not much good if you can't use it I beat the trash out of my milwaukee driving 200 3" screws no stop never quit.
@@operator8014 that what's the mid impact is in my tool box for! These small drivers are used by my for screws, not lags and big bolts
@@operator8014 most professionals would opt to use an adequate tool in that scenario rather than maxing out any of these impact drivers or risking snapping adapter bits.
That’s why Milwaukee’s have those thermal safety’s that cut you short before it’s to late.
There needs to be some sort of endurance score. Power doesn't matter if you need to let it cool for 30 minutes between every tough fastener.
That would be a good idea 💡
If you're doing this with that tool for every fastener, you're using the wrong tool. Nobody is doing this on the job site lol
My Milwaukee’s have never needed a cool down period so I’ll stick with em. Nice test though
I won’t be switching from Milwaukee to Flex anytime soon!
Yea, no need for milwaukee to release the gen 4 anytime soon lol
Ya, I agree. The issues with over heating is a sign of longevity being questionable
Me too, from makita wont switch to milwaukee
@@arcchannel6912 Red, blue or yellow are all good choices and is down the brand preference. I love my milwaukee products but my buddies has all dewault and when I use his stuff I really don't notice a difference.
i think people might switch from DeWalt to Flex
Pixie dust torque, the best type of torque
Ave has entered the chat lol
@@skiball83 Uncle Bumblef*ck approves of this comment. ;D
Those 24 volt pixies were angry
It overheated and spilled oil?? Yeah, that’s a no for me dawg.
Makita is the only impact driver I have never seen do that
@@BamaShinesDistillery I'm pretty sure AvE got Makita doing that a few times too.
@@colinstu AvE smoked a couple old brushed makitas
You could probably get any impact to do it. When it happened to me, I was well past the intended application of a 1/4" impact driver -- 1/2" x 10" lag in a really hard wood stump. But among Makita LXT, Makita XGT, Metabo HPT, Kobalt XTR, Milwaukee Fuel, Dewalt XR, and Flex -- only the Flex and Dewalt spewed melted grease, and DeWalt was a tiny amount inside the collet compared to the Flex covering the socket adapter and back of the socket in it.
@@PhillyFixed I agree. I wish someone could get these companies to give them some and run them to fail. My biggest concern is never who screws in a bolt the fastest, but who will take the abuse the longest.
In my opinion it doesn’t matter how much power the flex makes if it overheats after the first lag bolt.
I would love to see where the Kobalt XTR 1/4 impact driver stands. Especially since there made by the same company as Flex for Lowes. Plus I think the XTR is rated at 2400 inch pounds. Both being 24 volt at two wildly different price points.
Good information. As with anything, competition is always good and I'm glad to see Flex come to market even if I'm not considering them at this time. I think they are going to need to address their heat problems as well as their kit cost issues before people really start to take them seriously though. I can run my makita impact full tilt just about all day in 90+ degree heat. Based on this test I would be using a screw driver most of the day if I was relying on the flex to cool down.
Nice to see Philly Fixed getting a shoutout. Love his vids too!
Thanks, DynoMike! TTC is scientific, meanwhile I'm like "hmm let's drive an obnoxiously large lag into a stump with the wrong tool for the job and see what happens" 🤣
I think its funny how Home Depot calls their line Ridgid while Lowes calls theirs Flex.
But the Ridgid stuff is getting better all the time. I've got their rolling miter saw table & it makes the one from Milwaukee, Bosch. Dewalt, & Makita look like lightweight Junk.
Ridgid isn’t Home Depot’s tool line. Husky is
@@ronaiosa126
You're wrong as far as the HDs in Florida go. They have Ridgid stuff all over their stores and in their online listings. I have a Pro account and there are most Ridgid tools on there
And flex isn't Lowe's eventually it's going to be available to everyone
@@codyschmidtmann3992 depends on the agreement they have between Chervon and Lowe’s.
The fact HD doesn’t carry EGO anymore and will never carry Skil says to me they will never sell and distribute Flex. It directly competes against TTI and HD is very committed to that relationship. So, the only other national distribution option with the buying power to influence the market is Lowe’s.
Anyone who carries EGO or Skil would be your potential options for future sellers of Flex. Maybe Menards considering they have a relationship with Chervon for Masterforce Power tool manufacturing?
Menards is notoriously cheap though. They don’t market their products heavily, their advertising methods are cheap, and they have a small selection in power tools compared to HD and Lowe’s. One side of one aisle only unless you’re by some monster Menards. They would need to cut out other brands to fit Flex.
They could cut out Black and Decker though. They don’t carry Craftsman (anymore) or Dewalt. Beef up Skil, add Flex, grow Masterforce, cut Black and Decker?
I don’t hate Menards by the way haha I go all the time 😂
First off, I just wanted to let ya'll know how much I LOVE your channel. I've really learned a lot from your tests and I'm extremely excited that you're expanding to lights too. Hope you guys can expand even more one day as objective test data is something the tools industry just seems to lack for some reason. I mean why there isn't a standard on how "nut busting" is measured blows my mind, especially with how much some companies abuse this in marketing.
As for the these tests I have some thoughts. While I realize "reliability" would be a relatively subjective metric, I really do think it should be factored into the number score somehow even though the comments currently capture it. Maybe a "reliability/consistency" column rated 1-10 (or whatever range you think is appropriate) would be a good addition. As tools that can't consistently make the same torque shouldn't top any ranking chart even with an "asterisks"/comment IMO.
As for the price even though I understand the concept that it should be cheaper if/when you can buy it by itself, until that is something you can actually do, I really struggle to see how you can give it a price of anything but 250
ProjectFarm is a great channel just like yours!
PF's adapter recommendations would have come in handy in today's video.
@@svn5994 except they used PF’s adapter recommendation.
Apparently he needs to build a TTC impact adapter killer bench!
Miguel, you don’t need to get defensive! It is what it is. Project Farms’s recommendation for an adapter was a huge fail! He makes a lot of money doing those tests. If it means revamping his test rigs he should consider it, because at this point people are questioning results, at least I am.
@@martylucas8557 You see him (PF) breaking the Bosch in his tests even though it reaches a very high torque. The Bosch wasn't PF's recommendation, if I recall correctly. TTC stated that their rational was to use the Bosch to see if the short shank would help reduce losses due to adapter length.
The Project Farm test used a smaller 1 1/8" socket which might be why the adapters snapped at a smaller measured value in this test using the larger socket.
With the heat concerns and that ridiculous battery, I'll stick with my Milwaukee...
You need the high output for the impact drivers! I use them daily and it is a world of difference - Milwaukee advertises 50% increase and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s correct
Another brand to keep Milwaukee from growing complacent with their recent success. Good!
You told me to come over here to see why you haven't really featured the surge impacts from Milwaukee.
And now I see why! Thank you! It would have taken me a while to finally land on this video. Mostly because I thought that I saw this one.
Regardless of how your tests don't always agree, I super appreciate that you and project farm sorta overlap and shout out like this.
That’s been the point I’ve been trying to drive h9me about the Flex, it’s not tried and true like the Milwaukee Fuel Gen 3 Impact. The Gen 3 has an impressive track record of around 3 years competing against all competitors. Winning the majority of those tool tests, not to mention the overall reliability, which has been excellent!
Hey, y'all. Hopefully I'm not the only one, but I'd like to see more 12v drivers! I find them to be the most useful of all. They fit just about anywhere.
I'm curious if the batteries use the same cells? Most say the cell type makes quite the difference...maybe try also HO battery later on.
Great test
Not sure how it would go, but you could potentially try welding a 1/2” nut to one of the bolts and using a nut driver in the impact drivers, eliminating the adapter. Either way, you’re still dealing with the 1/4” shank, so maybe that wouldn’t make that much difference.
I have a surge, a compact m18 driver, and a mid torque impact wrench . The surge is fantastic, however it does not like larger type fastener(6 inch headlok for example). It's a great tool for most work. My Traditional impact is more for tapcon that surge can't handle. My new mid torque is unstoppable, so I got a 1/2 inch to 1/4 adaptor... so now it's my driver too(a very heavy driver)
After watching how inconsistent the flex is I’m very happy with my purchase of Milwaukee tools. No thanks Lowe’s
Heck yea man. I've been looking forward to 1/4 impact tests! I'm super interested to see how the Kobalt KXID 1424A-03 and the Ryobi PBLID02 perform if you ever test them down the line.
I have an m12 surge impact driver... From what I've experienced; it won't continue to "hammer" if there isn't any (or barely any) rotation of the output shaft/chuck. I'm assuming this has something to do with the inlet/outlet requirements of the fluid.
Based on Milwaukees info on how the system works, it won't have the peak torque of a standard hammer/anvil setup as the info shows lower torque sustained for a longer period of time.
I’d like to see a high output battery on the m18
They have a video showing that with m18 the batteries don’t make a difference. It’s a couple months old, check it out it’s pretty cool
I can’t tell the difference. On lugs or big bolts there’s almost no diff. I have both versions of the 5.0
@@cardiobroker I haven’t tried it on bolts but I know if I use them on screws and tapcons they shear them right off
High output makes a big difference
@@cardiobroker There's only one version of the 5.0.
Good video as usual !
How hard are Bosch adapters compared to others?
In the notes for Flex, I think you forgot "reliable?"
would it be possible to try battery-powered impact drills?
Hi, excellent video ty so much, I’m staying with Milwaukee it’s been on the market for ever and has a strong reputation, the flex is new and for me way over priced, excellent demonstration as always ty, Bob Frate,
@@wadelujan8714 Flex is overpriced when you don’t have an option to buy bare tools from them. Some people have batteries and chargers and don’t want to feel like they’re paying extra for another set of batteries and a charger.
Milwaukee Gen 4 impact driver will be released soon enough and it will be on another level by itself once again. I choose reliability of power any day.
Flex is not technically new. They’ve been making these kinds of tools in Europe for as long as Milwaukee has been doing so here. So they’re only new to Americans. Milwaukee wouldn’t suddenly become a bad brand if it went overseas where it’s completely unheard of.
Try the Husky adapters. Them fellas are beefy. Plus when you break a handful which is inevitable you can bring them back to Home Depot for replacements.
True Dat!!! 😎
Agreed.
Nice to see everyday guys honestly testing tools, it's so hard wading through the mud on RUclips when it comes to tool testing. I like the science behind the testing with the odd joke/slang words for fun. I'm watching from the UK and I've never heard anyone say uggah duggahs before and I'm 15 years in the motor industry, so I've started saying it to my work colleagues and it's definitely now our new torque measurement!
I'm a snap on guy and I use a lot of sub compacts from snap on i.e 14.4 v 1/4 impact driver and screw gun/driver. I'm interested to know how they compare to Milwaukee/DeWalt/Makita equivalent? Could I have saved money or is my money well spent?
The one key test point missing is a Heat index. There is no way I'd want a tool that went that hot and is obviously damaging itself because Lowes decided to not include a heat-cutoff relay (probably the only reason the tool scored so well).
The Flex does have thermal protections, it's why the Flex impacts can go into thermal shutdown, and how the turbo drills can lock out turbo when they don't have thermal headroom.
The "sensor free" marketing refers to the lack of Hall effect sensors, which just determines position, speed, and direction of the rotor, which can be done in a few ways.
Great Job! Thanks! BTW, you mighty want to add Max Temperature to your chart.
something i've found to help temps a bit is running a tool without any load. just by cooling the motor a lot and running it seems to cool the impact head much faster than just letting it sit there.
Gotta understand from a marketing perspective Flex is brilliant by taking advantage of the release by forcing you to buy additional batteries. To me that says they intend on releasing more products in the near future or at least annually that people will purchase because they’re on the platform now. You’re only on the platform based on the batteries you have in hand and that did it.
So basically now if you purchased Flex tools you have extra batteries and on your next purchase that really narrows the competition down to just them and who ever else you used prior. Smart move.
There really needs to be an adoption of like 5/16 or 3/8 drive bits with these new impact being able to provide so much throughput. Maybe a design that has a 1/4 for the first 25mm of the shaft then a 3/8 size for the shaft after with chucks that could accept a deeper bit.
One thing I haven’t been seeing on other tool test channels are cordless drills holding up to drilling through steel. Yes of course a drill is going to have no problem going through wood no matter what bits your using. I think making them drill through steel is more of an endurance test battery and tool wise. Maybe some new content content for the channel when it comes to cordless drills?
1:28 I just gained some good respect for this channel through the humbleness of that sentence
I love the channel. I would like to see if you could come up with a test to measure the real strength of the hole hog or Megamax
I second this suggestion, it would be great to see who makes the best cordless "hole hawg". It wouldn't even be more than one video as there are just three current manufacturers of 1/2 drive right angle cordless drills. As far as I can tell it's just Milwaukee, DeWalt, and Makita now. I own the Ridgid Megamax right angle drill myself and it's a beast but it is discontinued from the Home Depot website although you can still buy it from DirectToolsOutlet
The surge is no where near as powerful as the Gen 3. It's not supposed to be either, it's a hydraulic impact driver.
to be fair the M18 is on a 18 volt system where as the Flex is on a 24 volt system . more voltage means it can feed the motor with more power
I just bought a flex and love it. Charges super fast and has great power and run time. But if I’m being honest I just wanted a good looking tool that performs well. I don’t push it to the limit by drilling a 2 inch bolt. Ever.
I’m a glazier and just need a decent tool every now and then when I put in a frameless shower or do curtain wall. I was a Milwaukee guy for years and now that I’ve switched I don’t see much of a difference other than one is new and one is old.
That's a real shame about the M18 Surge. I have the M12 Surge and really like it for driving screws and such.
Through my non-scientific testing of tools I've used, I was impressed with the Makita LXT subcompact impact driver but it is loud. I'm pretty sure the various hydraulic drivers on the market are weaker than their traditional brothers but I've often wondered which was the most powerful and how much are you giving up switching to the quieter tool.
Real quick about hydraulic impacts they tend to hit very hard very quickly but lose all of their power under serious load. I use makita and have their xdt16 and the oil impulse driver and the oil driver will almost always driver faster than the xdt16 but when driving something like a 8" Timberlok the xdt will beat. It's weird how it goes but they aren't really like impacts but very useful for 3-4" screws and under and improve quality of life quite a lot imo.
This is a great example of a company sacrificing reliability and quality for more power. Power sells to the layman. A professional that has to use the tool for hours at a time, every day will choose the Milwaukee or a Dewalt over the Flex every single time. I did.
The data collection is unparalleled . Thank you for these videos.
The 24v Flex should beat he 20v tool. The question is whether the small performance gain is worth the extra cost, size, and weight. I say no.
@@wadelujan8714 as cool as flex is I can't see it being used on a job if it overheats so fast and you have to wait almost an hour to use it for like 15 minutes
I recommend maybe putting a slit for a flat head or torx bolt in your set up so you don’t have to use adapters and can just use bits, they don’t snap like them adapters do lol.
Good channel man definitely very informative and actual dyno numbers? Awesome comparison
Pixie Dust Torques, hahaha. I’m using that from now on, excellent
Ill still take my milwaukee tools. I have beat the $hit out of them and they just keep running. They never have gotten to hot to handle either.
Same here, my gen 3 fell 2 stories onto hard concrete a few times (then decided to get a lanyard lol), it has been left out in the snow, extreme cold, rain and still works like the day I bought it. Even my other fuel tools have had the crap kicked out of it and it doesn't miss a beat.
Ridiculously tough tools. Won't see me switch anytime soon.
Not sure how much more power we need in 1/4" drive, I can barely get adapters and bits to last over an hour with my "weak" DeWalt.
My M12 impact driver does the job, they have hit a point where too much power is being supplied to the 1/4" hex.
Over at shop tool reviews he uses a husky 3/8 adpater vs the 1/2. I have seen him break a 1/2 adapter but not the 3/8 one yet. I know the size of your bolt is a limiting factor but might be something to consider.
At this point we're getting into ridiculous territory, I have the DeWalt DCF 887 and never use it on speed 3 apart from driving in lag bolts, for screws speed 2 is already so quick that I don't go all at once but in short bursts, and the DeWalt is an almost 10 year design, much behind the Milwaukee in terms of power, too much impact force shortens the life of bits and makes it more probable to sheer off the heads off fasteners.
As others have mentioned, these tools are stronger than the 1/4" hex drive can physically survive, so what's the point?
With the abundance of tool manufactures and all the outrageous claims Im grateful for AvE for doing in-depth tear downs, project farm doing lots of testing on many daily use trade items, and I have become a subscriber of your channel as well MR. Torque, I appreciate your points system and multiple metric break down. Gone are the days of chucking 2 drills together and seeing which one smokes, I need real data where I can choose on the metric that matters most to my application, flex seems good for auto guys that do other things where Milwaukee seems like a good all around driver slightly cheaper than the flex but not a throw away tool at all. Im still rocking the 2013 dewalt drill driver set for my daily use tools (mostly carpentry) and Im ready to do a deep clean and bearing/brush change on them but I also have the new tool itch and im doing my research now. I appreciate your work and video content Sir!
Speaking of impact guns just stopping dewalt dcf 887 stops if you put massive load on it. Doesn’t over heat it just tries for couple seconds then electrically cuts out, trying to put 6mm shank screws in 5.5mm hole in concrete it gets so far then refuses to rattle once you stoped making progress, so I think testing these is going to be hard work for you, best of luck :D
This is the only reason I don’t like impact driver’s. You would think they would make the adapter and quick change larger to compensate for the amount of torque it can put out. I stick with impacts with 3/8” or 1/4” collets.
You are a very thoughtful reviewer! thank you for that !
Idk like to see what the Milwaukee will do with a 6.0 ho battery, I feel a noticeable power increase when using 6.0s on anything
Exactly !!!
Yeah that's the big boy my boss hates when I talk like that lmao I love that shittt
Im split between Ryobi and Milwaukee for my cordless power tools, and my main impact driver is actually the Ryobi R18IDBL (Europistan and Australia only iirc). Ive tried Milwaukees, but landed on this one because its cheaper, light, feels good in the hand and with its 270nm I really cant tell if its less powerful than the M18. Suprisingly it lost several tests on youtube to the US version, which on paper has less torque, but it probably has more RPM, but oh well.
Id love to see the Milwaukee with the high output batteries since that's what Milwaukee is really pushing these days.
After seeing this video, I’m gonna be getting a new flex driver and compare it with my buddies Milwaukee and dewalt impacts. Seems like it has good potential for some automotive use.
A channel that suggests you check out other channel is a channel to trust! You guys are awesome!
I would like to see a heat test and battery test, drive in some big screws into some 4x4s untill one fails
You’re the man now dawg.
Can you test the JDM Makita impact lineup? I am curious to to see how they compare to the competition.
I wish but I’m skeptical they will. They already stated they wouldn’t test a certain battery because of its lack of availability in the U.S.
@@fearofchicke @Jakob Langhans We'll do that!
The surge overload protection is kicking in. Try a lower AH battery and I bet it would eliminate that problem.
Not an isolated incident. Plumb 4 U channel found that this was boiling hot as well.
Melt-your-skin-off hot is not okay for a power tool.
Looking at the curves, I think the bit adapters are functioning like torque sticks. But that also makes me wonder, how the hell would it be possible to test torque above a certain level with these tools having such small drives, and them already being powerful enough to break almost every extension in existence? I think the horsepower race has basically died before it got off the line.
Nice work. Milwaukee is a formidable tool. Although RIDGID tools may not outperform these other tools, there's something about a "LIFETIME SERVICE AGREEMENT" that just tickles my fancy. Any tool that s*** the bed on a test doesn't belong in a tradesman's tool box. Hay, shout out to Project Farm. We hang in the same places! Thanks
Can y'all test the Klien 1/4" impact against the flex? It takes DeWalt batteries. They claim 210 ftlb of torque.
Most of these 1/4” tools are designed for jobs requiring 30 ft lbs or so, usually less.
Fun to see what they can do, but kind of like seeing how much weight a Honda Ridgeline can tow before failure.
You should really get a 6.0ah High Output battery for the M18 Fuel to maximize the power and potential of the tool. It makes a very noticeable difference.
Started with ryobi LONG ago then graduated to rigid then thought I was spending alot going with Milwaukees m12 but good grief only reason I get new models is to upgrade! Have only had 1- 6ah battery break and it was the cheesy retainer clips, tape the bitch on and it still ran all my m12 tools. They're doing it right. Nice to have something that won't pull down my pants when I hang it on my pocket. Damn decent tool
I can't wait for the general 4 milwaukee to come out.
Picturing a Milwaukee General now.
A lot of people swear by Makita because they have less power and don’t shut down.
High torque isn’t necessary in an impact driver.
Interesting, so far, that impact drivers torque claims seem realistic where torque wrenches are not. I wonder if this trend will continue or it was just coincidence with these two?
We're curious about that as well. Perhaps impact drivers are just early in the tool world and still accurately marketed where as impact wrenches have had 50 years to get to crazy numbers?
Did you ever get that Surge fixed? would love to see some dyno numbers of a working one.
Both are more than strong enough for what they should be used for, imho. If you are hammering against a bolt with so little movement in the real world, you go get a bigger impact. For milwaukee, they have multiple choices, for flex, you have ONE, their high torque. Its good to see more competition, but flex needs a mid torque asap. Interesting about kit tools only, thanks for putting that in there.
Time to make your own adapter boys.
Not good for a tool to be puking out oil, which I'd guess is grease that got really hot and liquified.
I commented about making a custom adaptor...my only issue is, that most of the time, well all of the time, they break in the small area either RIGHT out of the 1/4 hex or a bit past it. So unless somebody can get some super good strong metal and make it nice and tough theres not much to beef it up i guess. The 1/4 hex can't get bigger only maybe stronger with materials. Seems like that this point, you might as well just have either an impact, or do what Man caver did and put an anvil in it. Would be nice to have one of the uh...Hex/1/2 anvils for both sockets and bits. The oil yeah that's a no from me too dog lol
I think flex is making a bit more because of the 24volt advantage but I don’t jump on the bandwagon of new tool brands I need confidence in my brands
Check out the Home Depot Husky Impact Adapters. You can warranty the broken adapters
6.0Ah vs 6.0Ah please... this comparison is 90Wh vs 144Wh. I would hope the FLEX could put more power down with that kinda power advantage. You could at least let the M18 have it's High Output if it's gotta go against a 24V system
The 5.0 and 6.0 Milwaukee make about the same power. The 5.0 all the way to the 12.0 make it. They use the same batteries all rated at the same amp discharge rate. All the ah rating says is how long the battery can run. The Milwaukee uses a either 25 or 35 amp discharge rate battery from Samsung. Makita uses a 20 amp discharge rate from Sony......
You mean, let the M18 run a battery that drains its storage twice as fast? Then when FLEX eventually uses a high output, you’ll cry unfair again. LOL. These are two tools with what comes out of the box.
@@BamaShinesDistillery No they don't. 3.0 6.0 8.0 12.0 uses 21700, 3.0 5.0 9.0 are all 18650.
@@svn5994 that has nothing to do with Amp output.......that is capacity which is how they get the higher ah ratings.
Love the reviews guys thanks.. I did have one question if you could find a m18 1/4inch impact driver that says "brushless" (it's basically almost the same as the fuel was the model I think they made right before they came up with the fuel line or I may be wrong..... and vs it the m18 v3 fuel 1/4inch impact u have here...
watch?v=7lDPWU1HoMg&t=959s it's not even close. The brushless is...not great. It's like Rigid's subcompact line, or Ryobi one+.
So basically impacts are at the point we’re they are too powerful for bits. So who wins is basically irrelevant.
No, that’s not the case. The Milwaukee snapped the “adapter”, which is not really a bit, it holds sockets or bits. The Milwaukee Gen 3 Fuel Impact has been around for about 3 years, so that pretty much nullifies your irrelevancy claim. What it does bring into question is Project Farm’s testing, because the Bosch adapters really suck!
Simple: we need impact drivers with 7/16" quick socket :-)
@@martylucas8557 r/woooosh
@@martylucas8557 You see how much effort and time project farm puts into his videos and he's incredibly transparent and explains how each test is done. It's not his testing buddy.
@@renski8976, are you getting a cut of the 1M + $’s in revenue his channel gens? He owes it to his viewership to step the testing up. The Bosch bit snapping multiple times out of the gate during the Torque Channel Testing, yet being a top rated adapter by Project Farm, is a good example of where the stress test needs to stepped up.
The channel is called "Torque Test" so I'll cut you some slack on your rankings. In real life, power matters, but it's not the only think that matters. There is also reliability (short and long term) as well as ergonomics, that matter at least as much to someone who uses them all day, day after day.
Why doesn't Milwaukee standardize on a 60-amp battery platform? That would be a lot more powerful than anything but DeWalt FlexVolt. The answer is simple and obvious, and why overpowered tools may have their place, but are fundamentally limited by their ergonomic negatives. We all have a big brute of a drill in a drawer somewhere, and we occasionally bring it out when needed, but we don't use it unless we have to. I think Flex is whistling past the graveyard on this topic, and hoping nobody notices.
As for reliability, that's the silent killer. Every time a tool dies or makes you wish that it would, you make a decision. Am I going to buy another tool that has 20% more top-end torque that I almost never need, or am I going to get something reliable and stash an overpowered corded tool somewhere in case I do need it?
I think there's a place for Flex and that some will find that it fits their bill nicely, but impact wrenches aside, there is probably is probably an amount of torque that is enough for a tool, with any more simply enabling the tool to break things you don't want broken.
I'd be interested to see how Flex lasts long term.
With all the torque now days in these things, might be time for makers to figure out how to put a 1/4 inch drive collar over a 1/4 inch or 3/8 inch anvil. So you can use it both ways with no adapter. Just remove the 1/4 inch interface and you have a impact wrench.