Formula 1 TURBO Era | 800HP Toleman-Hart TG183B [TECH TALK]
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- Опубликовано: 1 сен 2019
- Ayrton Senna's first Formula 1 car and F1 turbo era engine technology and modernization with Geoff Page Racing.
With some engines reaching an alleged 1500HP in qualifying trim, the turbo era of F1 was one of excitement, innovation, and tragedy. Geoff Page is no stranger to some of the cars of this moment in Formula 1 history, and during Goodwood Festival of Speed trip earlier this year we were lucky enough to visit his workshop that is brimming with cars, chassis, and engines with huge historical significance including the first F1 car Ayrton Senna ever competed and scored points in back in 1984, the Toleman TG183B powered by a turbocharged Hart 415T.
Geoff gives us a rundown on the 800HP 415T plus how Brian Hart and the team decided to look at some older pre-existing monoblock technology at the time to combat head cylinder sealing issues, and how coolant flow was actually one of the biggest issues for them to overcome via a ‘dummy’ head gasket that was cast into the block in order to better control flow and pressure, and therefore temperatures. The evolution of head gasket technology from there on is discussed along with what output Geoff thinks the 415T could produce today with the addition of some modern technology such as an ECU, sensors, and turbo upgrades.
Also discussed is the block casting technology of the time, Nikasil coating and how Geoff has worked to reproduce the 415T with some modern upgrades to ensure cars like this do not just sit collecting dust and can instead be fired up and driven as they were intended to do. Interestingly with a Life Racing ECU developed specifically for the 415T which runs 4 injectors per cylinder, the engine start time has been reduced by a whopping 2 hours compared to the old mechanical injection setup.
This is a huge interview with so much more discussed and we’ll definitely be back to catch up with Geoff again in the future.
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Thanks you for doing these interviews. It's fascinating to hear from the people who keep them going and/or tuned them in the past.
Monoblock engines used to be fairly common, when head gaskets couldn't seal high cylinder pressures. The Offy 4-cylinder Indycar engine was a monoblock. Those were doing 1000 hp out of 165 cubic inches in 1972.
This man has forgotten what most of the current f1 engineers haven't even learnt! Thanks for the video!
Thanks for all this great information i can't believe anyone would dislike this
Yeah! I'm shook. The whole team is devastated. We all cried at morning tea. I'm got a councillor coming in at lunch to minimize emotional damage.
I'm guessing it's just two guys who wanted to hear it run. :) - Ben
@@hpa101 Savage 😂😂😂
Maybe they accidentally hit the dislike button on their touch screen phone, I know I've been guilty of doing that before while trying to hold my phone.
Old F1 turbo cars were rockets with wheels without traction control! Thank you so much for this interview
Glad you enjoyed it Jose, cheers for the comment =) - Taz.
Those dual rear wings are cool..the 80's IMO were the best in F1... so many excellent technical advancements...👍
"Come again next year" indeed! Goodwood and the surrounding area is the "Holy Grail" of these kind of cars and the tech ideas they had back then, at that level. Another great video 👍
We’re so lucky, nowadays you can easily source ECU’s with a ton of ignition and fuel controls plus a host of failsafe and drive-ability functions that make driving a car that would normally be a nightmare on the streets quite tame. And that’s truly the upside to F1, as in all the electronic tech that has trickled down to the general aftermarket over the years.
This is some of the best automotive material anywhere.
Appreciate that :) - Taz.
You guys are hands down the best automotive tech channel on RUclips, I’m a huge fan and always look forward to these tech talks. Thanks for the awesome content and keep up the good work! My wallet is on standby for when you guys release graphic design HPA merch (turbo HPA hoodie!!)
as always, great content. Geoff seems to be happy to take a ride back in memory lane. only 3days late to hear it run, can't imagine the feeling you had, at least you're welcome back next year
thanks for all the efforts behind the scenes to achieve these interviews👌👌👌
I feel like I have to get a full night's sleep before I watch these videos. Anything less and I won't have the mental acuity to be able to keep pace with the level of information presented. Great vids regardless! 👍👍
I’m an American that lived in South Africa in the 80’s.
I used to watch F1 races with guys there.
Now I watch NASCAR with the guys here.
Same fun !!!
18 minutes long? Feels like 4 minutes.
We need more.
Thanks HPA and Geoff Page Racing!!!
Love these TECH TALKs, please do more of these!
Cheers from Portugal
One of your best (of your normally amazing) tech videos!!
I really enjoy these interviews with the guys involved and the insight to the top level machines they worked on. Great stuff.
Great video, cool to see you’ve come to the uk! Really cool to see a discussion video like this with a knowledgeable chap with great involvement in some of these Grand Prix cars
super freaking cool. thanks for sharing! i hope to see more!
Loving all this f1 engineering insight lately. Andre always so on point 👌 love u guys 😍
Absolute gold!! Thank you.
Love these so much. Such good information that won’t get lost to time.
Finally got round to watching this. Wish I’d watched it earlier. Great interview.
That was amazing. Thank you sir
Nice to see an Historic race car , not cut up and even better maintained in running condition!
Stellar interview, sir!
Awesome video! Please more. Love the technical stuff. 😊🔧📐
Top interview as always
Cheers Ralph.
Awesome interview ty , never knew of monoblocks but indeed it makes great sense to do by eliminating the weak point of sealing pressure. cheers
I love these interviews
Thanks Brian.
High Performance Academy I wonder how well a modern tuner can do against something like this. Thinking of 4g63 or K or EJ20 platforms . We hear about big numbers butmostly for drag racing. Could one last 25 hours? I guess the time attack people are pushing the hardest in this realm.
this interview was great! i never seen or even heard of mono-block engine. good job Andre💪
Thanks mate. Yes, amazing engine. :)
Watching this for the second time to try get my head around the amount of information 😂 super interesting! Another epic video!
I'd like a video on engine royalty. I'm not an engine builder but know Cosworth is a household name. But it appears they are only one company of many who moved the technology forwards. Would love to see a video talking about landmark achievement and people or companies behind it, within a specific series or across. It is hard to find out about this, but if anybody has an book recommendations please share.
Brilliant video could listen and learn from guys like this all day everyday wish I had his knowledge
Amazing content. Thank you!
Thanks for the upload they were running a 1992 Dallara F1 car at brands hatch a few weeks ago, the V12 sounded awesome. When I spoke to Geoff they are currently restoring a 1995 Pacific PR02 F1 car looking forward to seeing that.
Absolutely brilliant video. Probably the most I've ever learnt about engines in 19 minutes. Great work.
Thanks Toby! Geoff certainly keeps you glued eh! - Taz.
@@hpa101 Absolutely. The depth and breadth of his knowledge and experience is superb. And Andre's a natural.
We can't put a price on the information and history that we just got from someone who has so much passion for what he does.👍👍👍.
Amazing content as always, thank you from the States ✌️
Amazing interview
more videos like this with engine builders of the day please. great content
unbelievable engines !! thanks for the review
Glad you enjoyed it! The 2 hour start time is full on but pretty awesome they can get 25 or so hours from them now eh! - Taz.
Great video. Great info. Thanks
Best content in all the land!!!
This is so awesome! What a brilliant interview. Do you have a podcast? 20 minutes is just not enough 👌
Glad you enjoyed it! Could have talked for much longer and we hope to catch him again when next in the UK.
You can find the podcast here: www.hpa-tunedin.com/
We're hoping to get Geoff on this too at some stage if he has the time 😎 - Taz.
Monoblock, brilliant, just like the original Bentley race cars. I never knew the old F1 turbo cars did that too. Thanks for this incredible video.
Great stuff! Monoblock technology!
Come again next year....hope that‘ll be the case. Awesome insights and great interview again.
very nice info good work
Love your videos
Thanks Alexis! - Taz.
Great video
If only Brian Hart could of been persuaded to right a book.
On a sub note: It was Honda who were the first to be producing the 1500 hp No.'s but they(Honda) were not totaly sure of their power, simply due to the fact they were measuring the rpm and then the torque was measured off of the spring balance scale using binoculars. Different times
I remember Porsche welding the heads to the barrels in the late 70"s to eliminate the sealing problem. This goes one step further. Would have liked more visuals of the engine components.
MONOBLOCK. NO HEAD. HOLY CRAP!
Bentley was using a monoblock design way back in the '20s. Works well, except when you need to do valve work.
Then it's like asking a proctologist to fix your teeth...
Great video :)
Ask's the obvious question about how to machine the valve seats:
Question deflected ;)
These mono-blocks are amazing, as the the similar old Offenhauser from nearly 50 years prior.
Great interview!
What fuel is it now running on?
5:00 very interesting.
Honestly, who was interviewing who here? The guy with mike went on and on and on.
Jesus .. this is the best channel on the net.. its like audio book porn for cars..
The early 70s the Leyland lynx truck and bus engines were fixed head, not overly reliable, but they ran them for number of years
Interesting, wonder what the reasoning was for that in their more industrial application - Taz.
@@hpa101 Not sure really, they had similar engines in the British Leyland group, same size and power, maybe it was a project that was signed off on, they were strange time in the 70s in BL
Offenhausers (and I guess the Peugeot engines they were based on) featured a monoblock with 4 valves per cylinder a hundred hears ago
Yes sir! This wasn't new at the time as Geoff mentioned and some 'monobloc' technology from way back when is actually completely normal now. Early engines were far more 'modular' - Taz.
Core shift still an issue for some Focus RS engines. But rare in general these days.
is it possible to see how that engine was cast and put together?
1500hp in qualifying trim from the bmw 1.5 liter f1 car, same as the fastest 13B's in sport compact import drag racing. Love a brutal forced induction small motor that's off it's head!
I dont. Those high strung little fuckers dont last more than a race, or a few 1/4 passes. Stupid fucking expensive to build the little fucks when you could just build a 1500hp turbo V8 and daily the bitch for years without issues..
Brain food for petrol heads 👍.are ceramics coatings still used like in some motorcross bikes? Thanks for posting much appreciated
Cheers that was mean as
Chur! - Taz.
Would love to see a feature on the Ford Cosworth engine shown in the background starting at 1:49.
Just noticed it upon second viewing.
Fingers crossed.
There's a yarn on the YB in the pipeline from the same trip. Next time we see Geoff we will have to talk RS200 for sure though! - Taz
Are monoblock engines used in turbo sports cars nowadays like a Ferrari 488? And are there any downsides to the intense boost pressure to produce 800hp from 1.5l, other than cost/difficulty of servicing valvetrain? (does more boost mean more lag due to large turbo to spool up)? Sorry for all the questions, I'm sure I know a lot less than most of the audience here, just eager to learn.
I can't think of a modern production engine that is a mono block, as head gasket sealing had been worked out by the 1940s. While eliminating the head gasket removes one thing that can go wrong, it's an absolute pain to machine the chamber area. This increases cost of manufacturing. Especially as now head gaskets are much better than they use to be.
Yes, big turbo on a small engine result in a slow boost buildup, but more importantly - it will come on boost at wery high engine speeds. It will drive like 120hp NA 1.5L untill you reach 6000rpm and cut fuel at 8000.
I would like this guy to build my engine.
Good to hear from an expert the 1500hp rumor of the turbo era is total bull. Long live the V10 era.
The mpg figures from today's turbo hybrid f1 cars make far less than crazy 1500 hp of those good old days. Still with hybrid systems their mpg figures ąre in the single digits.
What mpg figures were you getting in Sennas Era with turbo engines
Tanvir Hussain so I did some math and research. So these are rough estimates based on Grand Prix lengths and 100 kg of fuel in modern F1 cars and some conventions. But with that math they would be around 7.2 mpg in today’s F1 cars. It could be more but the teams wouldn’t dare release that info. I’d guess with refueling back then it would be far less. Plus modern cars produce a bit over 1000 Hp.
Gallons Per Mile more like!
@@TristianWrites yeah maybe but only if you consider the hybrid boost! Engines alone are probably knocking 800 hp door , probably not even that.
the Alfa Romeo 8 cylinder F-1 engine from 1951 was a "monoblock"...
Yes monobloc tech (monoblock seems to be the modern spelling since it is more specific than the original term was) goes well before 1951. This wasn't the first block used, and certainly not the first in motorsport ;) - Taz.
06:10, lost interest. A section cutaway drawing would be nice to see. Can't make sense of how a piston and conrod assembly.. can be installed if head and block are one peace.
Certainly couldn't do that with a model car engine. For example OS R2103, Picco Monza.. There has to be a separation somewhere to get the moving parts in.!
The rotating assembly/bottom end is easy. The whole engine isnt one piece. The bottom end is split like a conventional engine. Its the "head" that is interesting.
What is a 'hid' gasket?
Feel free to use the captions. Even if English isn't your first language they'll help you understand things better Emgee. Hope that helps :) - Taz.
2 hour engine, geez.
Some drag racing engines would be lucky to do 60 seconds worth of racing before a rebuild - Taz.
u should sat down having a coffee while making a conversation rather than stand there for hours
Our legs aren't painted on, nor are Geoffs. Standing up for 20 minutes of the day is hardly a struggle, and if it was for us or anyone we interview they would simply say so, and sit down 😎Thanks for your concern though! - Taz.
Should be called mono-engine because a block already is only one piece.
Less catchy but more accurate :)
Yeah the English language has a few holes XD - Taz.
Bmw m power . Basad on m10 engine m 11 race . Also what do you mean 1500hp is nothing mate the engine is 1.5 litre! Show me a 1.5 with 1200 tp 1500 hp.
I spend more time on this channel now than pornhub. And I spend a lot of time on pornhub.
Your pants are on for our channel though right? haha Glad you're enjoying the content mate and cheers for the support 🤘- Taz.
@@hpa101 depends what the content is. I don't want to intentionally soil a clean pair of pants.