18,400 RPM, 900HP 3L Mercedes V-10...NA! | Formula One Secrets [TECH TALK]
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2019
- 18,400 RPM and 900HP from a 3L V10 engine ...and not a turbo in sight on this McLaren MP4/15.
At today's mainstream levels of technology, 900HP V-10 NA is not a cakewalk from an engine with a 3L capacity, and then when you throw 18,400 RPM into the mix but still demand drivability it becomes even more difficult yet this is exactly what Mercedes were doing with their Formula 1 technology way back in the year 2000.
As a former long-time Formula One engineer for David Coulthard, Tim White of Garage 59 knows a thing or two about F1 technology, and at the recent Goodwood Festival of Speed Hillclimb Andre was lucky enough to spend a bit of time with Tim and the McLaren MP4/15 which finished 3rd in the 2000 season snagging victory at Monaco along the way for the former Mercedes-McLaren team.
Topics discussed include the double paddle operated clutch and how that helped the drivers of this era launch off the line with a small margin of error compensatable, the pneumatically controlled valve springs which adjust pressure based on RPM and the reason for such a system instead of the more convention steel spring setup. Many of the cars other systems are hydraulically controlled rather than electronically due to weight and technology restrictions at the time as well as the rule book which stated everything must be activated by the driver's input in some way.
Also covered are the active trumpets on the intake which can adjust in and out to match the RPM and thus fill in what would otherwise be flat spots in the rev range, and with a potential 18.400 RPM on tap for some of these engines it certainly made a difference in drivability when it came to tracks that had an aggressive mix of both high and low-speed sections seeing the car go from 3000 RPM and around 40kph to 15,000 RPM and over 300kph on the same lap.
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Want to be just like an F1 engineer and wear appropriate levels of clothing in public? Then do it in style with an HPA tee or hoodie. Grab yours today, we'll ship it to you for FREE: bit.ly/MerchHPA - Taz 👨🏻
I'd love to see a 1 hour long interview of the same guy in a calmer environment where he's got time to answer
I was at Silverstone many years ago and Mr Coulthard was doing laps in that Mc Laren Merc. I was there doing a rally driving experience day out. We all had breakfast in the cafe, wow that car made very little discernable rev drop between gears. Up or down. I sat in the stand for an hour or so listening to his gear changes, awesome
This is the era of F1 that made me fall in love with engineering in cars.
Same here!
Its extremely impressive how knowledgeable you are to be able to have such a fluid conversation with someone with so much technological knowledge. If that makes sense.
The average person would be lost immediately during that conversation.
You don't skip a beat and you know exactly when to go deeper into detail about something right away.
Extremely impressive my friend.
My favorite part of this video was your sarcastic comment about the rpm range. 🤣👍
I appreciate every one of your videos.
I like when people hesitate because of how good and specific the questions are
Correct. Andre is a weapon! 👍🏼
F1 V10 engine is simply "MECHANICAL PERFECTION" 🔧🏁👍
@Starscream_xxx
V10 sounds a lot better at 19000 rpm
Very true 👍.
I miss the f1 sounds that everyone knows.
F1 today is boring as watching paint dry... but that is another subject for another day.
Formula E is more existing to watch I think. Except for the sewing machine sound. I mean they sound like a child's toy. 😂
@SilverArrow_xxx V6 is computer controlled trash with multibillion dollar development cost and double the weight of a three liter v10.
This engine is British Enginnering or not??
Unique content on this channel. Keep the content coming.
Great content!
Its funny, I just put down my issue of Cycle Week that came today, after reading an interesting article on Dr. Robin Tuluie Among his many contributions to motorcycle and auto racing, he went to work for Mercedes' F1 team just a few years after this car was built, creating a passive hydraulic ride height regulator. You think F1 cars are complex?.....there were already about 6000 parts on a car of its day, and his system alone added another 2000! It also helped Mercedes to two championships and was subsequently banned, the greatest compliment an engineer can receive in racing!
In 2000 I spent a weekend with the McLaren team at the Nürburgring for the European GP race. It was the weekend of a lifetime, that I still think about. Mika & David were the drivers & McLaren was the reigning World Champion team. The technology was mind bogling even back then. They had a real time satellite link from the track to their headquarters where there was an identical car on a 5 post rig that was mimicking what the car was doing on the track. Memory for a lifetime was created that weekend.
I love watching these interviews! Andre is always on the ball and is able to ask dynamic technical questions based on previous answers...Keep it up guys!
Can you imagine an Indy car engineering interview like this ? Not in my lifetime.
I want to see the valve train damnit .... still great info
Formula 1 is pure insanity seriously the engineering from the body to the suspension and the most important part of the car the engine its just incredible I miss the era of high revving god sound from the v10s.
Super super informative and interesting! Had me hanging off every word👌
This is the top notch content thats needed on RUclips!! Thanks for the coverage and info guys
This video was so fascinating and engaging. I could’ve watched you two talk about the car for hours👍
Great interview and I love how much information you guys packed into it! I had to read a lot to get some of the informations you guys put into just 15 minutes! Great content!
Cheers Andy! Glad you enjoyed it mate - Taz.
So much amazing information packed in here. I love it so much.
I could listen to this all day long. Thank you.
Exceptional video! In famously tight-lipped F1, we don’t get to hear such detail until technology has moved on. Much of this info is fairly pertinent today. Thank you.
Incredible insight! Thank you... keep them coming please!!
Mate love your videos, so awesome your level of knowledge and ability to concisely explain this stuff so well, and incorporate it on the fly into interviews like this! So great for the lamen like myself. Keep up the good work mate!
You guys are doing some great content! Brilliant! Hanging on every word, not wanting the interview to end.
Thanks so much. Really appreciate it. :)
Nice video team. Lots of great info in this one.
We need more from Tim. Was interesting to hear is comments on the fight against friction.
Thanks for such great videos! I love the information they provide! please keep it up! Greetings from Paraguay!
Great interview, as always!!
Great interview, super interesting to hear how they were doing this nearly two decades ago - it’d blow everyone’s mind how they do it today!
Absolutely brilliant!!!!
Top interview & a much wider view on part of a truly dedicated engineer!
Well said ;0)
Host is the best I have ever seen. Asking the good questions, that are dynamic to the conversation, not just ticking off a list. Bravo keep up the content.
Cheers for the comment, Andre will be stoked to hear that. Hope you enjoy all the past and future releases too, we will be heading back to Goodwood again this year as well =) - Taz.
There's no replacement for displacement...wait what 900 hp from a 3L NA V10. Ok I stand corrected the replacement for displacement is engineering.
Hey look a McLaren with a Mercedes Benz engine let's argue about that it like they do with the new Supra.
Mercedes-Benz badged but built by Ilmor at the time too ;) - Taz.
Haha nice1. .. it's like the arguement people talk about.. putting a chev badge on a Holden..lol
Or turning 5th and 6 gen Camaros into Trans Ams
mclaren have worked on other cars with mercedes many times. one of my favorite cars they did was the stirling moss mclaren slr
Not really. This system isn't near as reliable as e.g. a large capacity, compact OHV v8 running with much lower stresses. This engine is pushed to the limits and might last a few hours of a race without reaching top rpm all the time but not an all day offroad race etc. In the same way that v8 wouldn't be as reliable as a diesel truck engine which makes 500hp all day every day for thousands of hours.
Basically horses for courses.
What a fascinating insight into f1 tech. great video!
What an incredible conversation to be a part of.
Incredible video mate I could listen to these F1 engineers talk about their cars all day
Variable length intakes are so damn cool. Especially variable length trumpets.
L Taka it’s common practice on motorcycles
@@ep82chris
And production cars, old BA Audi V6 and V8 engines and BMW E30 and E36 4 cylinders are the best example for this ;D.
Great job. Keep up the good work 👍
Excellent as always. Keep up the great work.
Cheers Ben! - Taz.
I thought Engineering Explained was intense but this channel is off the scale!
The variable trumpet intakes are amazingly calculated for pressure waves hitting the valve at the precise time before it closes to feed extra air like a supercharger. I didn't know this till I learned it here.
That’s some deep secret knowledge
I am in awe. Please. Please more. Thank you.
Really enjoyed this. Please try to do more like this.
Thanks Stan, we have quite a few more to come from Goodwood - Taz.
Great chat, very informative, i love this F1 era, to me it is the best, the sound, the fact that the drivers had to DRIVE the cars, the modern era is nothing but 60 odd high speed parade laps, interupted by pit stops that change very little, Clarksons rant was on the money, take note Bernie,, make F1 great again!!!
Great questions very good interview
I was at Indy , on the straight, when Mika's 2000 caught fire.
This was awesome! Thanks guys
Great one. is this the mclaren that had the brake padle to be used on corner exit for "torque vectoring"?
you brought me back to my 10years old me. thanks and nice job
Great content right here
that was exceptionally insightful and interesting.
Cheers Alexio, we have a few more F1 tech videos lined up for the coming months so make sure you hit that notification bell for the channel to catch them =) - Taz.
I'm really happy I found you on RUclips.. such a pain watching on FB
Glad you found us too!
Truly formula 1 defines internal combustion performance
@3:44 I bet it "dumped it" into the cylinders with a slight nudge to the fuelling :P #stealthsupercharger :D
200 bar hydraulics system!! Nearly 3000psi. That’s quite amazing.
Nice wagon in the back at 6:47
I love how your gained a footprint in 20-19.
Kinda mad to think that at just half the max rpm = 9,000 rpm is still more than almost every road car :)
Just a question tho as he was explainig the pnuematic valvesystem he mentioned the exess presure being vented to the cranckcase but doesnt this increase pumping losses by increasing crankcasepressure? If you put pressure into the cranckcase it works against the pistons trying to come down effectively negativaly impacting engine performance? Or does it get vented of so fast via ventilation it doesnt have the chance to have a negztive effect?
So good!!!
Zero too hero man!
Dynamics is the same.... kissvalve seats is key 🔑
i've made enormous amount of pauses while bonnet had been taken off. top secret technology, some time ago... back end of the steering wheel also worth staring at. connection point for all the stuff is inside the steering shaft?
My question is, are the pneumatic valve actuators used to force the valve to follow an existing cam lobe (nulling valve float), or are they a full cam less valve actuation that they can control entirely as they please?
J_W97 Just a pneumatic valvespring. Still uses a mechanical cam, normally with a slipper pad finger follower
Please more f1 stuff I would love a f1engine tear down.
Should we start a Go Fund Me to buy one and pull it apart? ;) - Ben
@@hpa101 I've got $10 here. DO IT.
Great interview as usual more f1 tech would be great obviously it's a very sort stroke engine but numbers would have been nice
Those kinds of numbers are very hard to come by (stroke length/rod length etc)
If he told you....well then you know the rest🔫
Well you'll be pleased to know that there's a bunch more F1 content coming out of our Goowood visit so stay tuned. Surprisingly even though these engines are now museum pieces essentially and have little to no relevance to the current state of the art in F1, some details are still quite closely guarded. What I found out was that the bore diameter in this particular engine was in the region of 90 mm so you can work out the rest.
@@hpa101 enlighten me, I work low voltage and can't count past 12
@@snikwad003 for a 10 cylinder engine with 3.0 litre displacement and a 90 mm bore, the stroke will be about 47 mm. I wouldn't take those numbers as gospel but it's in line with other F1 engines that we've seen specifications for.
then simple machines glorious drivers, now sophisticated machines inglorious drivers
Awesome video!!! Love more F1 based videos
Next one is due out Tuesday so make sure you have that notification bell on for the channel ;) - Taz.
3hp per liter. I browse drag racing forums and engine builders are kicking serious ass at 2hp per liter.
what about the exaust header?
existe algun programa para diseñar el multiple ideal para un motor ?
was this the same one ammo detailed?
Little cylinders, BIG HEADERS !!😅🍺🍺🏎🏎🏎🏁
A+ #1 gold star
I could listen to Tim for hours..
So why do they need to run lower valve pressure at low revs? I realize they can, but is the only benefit reduced forces in the valve and thus more power? Or, for a given pressure, are the forces higher at low revs?
Fantastic interview....
Unfortunately, no trickle down from pneumatic valves running 20,000rpm......cos the engine still has to be rebuilt every 3-4 hours.
Mercedes engines are actually an Illmor designed and built engine (Illmor Racing was set-up by two ex-Cosworth engineers, Mario ILLien and Paul MORgan in November 1983),=. Mercedes supply the development and research money and of course get to have their name on the cam covers. They also supplied engines to the US Indycar and Cart series.
They owned a stake in Illmor, and then bought it outright and renamed it twice. What Illmor is today is a different entity. There is a ton of interesting history in F1, much of which isn't fully known until years later.
Hope you enjoyed the content on the MP4-15 - Taz.
Where did the guy from Garage 59 get the 900hp figure from? I'm very skeptical of that claim for the FO110K engine given that the BMW P80 in the Williams the following year was the most powerful at somewhere between 850 and 900hp.
awesome
I need more bore 2 stroke ratios compression ratios valve angles and sizes materials ring thicknesses bearing materials clearances how did they deal with oil cavitation what oil ? fuel and fuel pressure i want it all balancing and harmonics tuning piston design to reduce friction theres so much i want to know
What are they doing as far oiling and clearances with rpm’s that high ?
I wanna know too now. Dry sump 0w oil?
The clearances are tight enough that the engine oil and coolant need to be preheated before the engine can be started up. Generally with a bespoke race engine like this there is enough rigidity built into the crankcase and crankshaft that flex isn't an issue and hence the clearances can be much tighter than what we could ever get away with in a modified production engine.
as always 👍👍👍
Pneumatic valve control is the way to go get rid of vallve Springs for Road cars 👍
Valve springs are not a big limitation for road engines. Removing the camshafts is the real goal, which this does nothing towards. Metal springs are simple. A pneumatic system is complicated and failure prone, for no real benefit on a road engine.
Adam Laycock Exactly. Even with pneumatic valves, there’s no way this system can handle a normal steel type valve stem as well as the expensive titanium one, which is far lighter in comparison.
There really is no need for pneumatic valve springs until you're considering engine speeds in the 15,000 + vicinity so they really would add nothing except complexity and cost to most of the engines that we deal with on the road.
Koenigsegg: FreeValve, does it handle high revs?
@@jareknowak8712 "freevalve" was my exact thought 😎👍
Is it the same concept to get crazy high rpm like that out of a 4 cylinder
I wonder what torque numbers these engines produce at 9000rm and up
why is a flat torque curve generally desired?
How many milliseconds per stroke at 18,400 RPM?
It's just another world
900 hp at 18400 rpm what is that like 250 torque
This is back when formula 1 had amazing sounding cars and not a bunch of computer nannys for the drivers
Damn 900hp out of a 3 liter engine my Datsun has a 2.6 liter and makes only like 100hp😂
Crazy for a n/a engine
Dont get me started on those dodge v10 petrols. IDK the capacity but they make like less than 300hp...
@@ReubenHorner they make a fair amount over 600. I'm not sure where you got 300 from.
Kantina He’s talking about the Dodge Ram truck engine (Ram 2500 IIRC) that made 310 hp at 4100. Although in this case the engine was designed for torque, you still have a pig of an engine when you could just go with an in-line 6 diesel.
Don't forget the 80's turbo era in F1, where they made 1500hp from just 1.5L of engine displacement.
no ffing way was andre at goodwood!!!!
❤️❤️
What is the idle rpm for this beast?
like amy normal car , just look how the lexus LFA engines could rev amazingly fast from 1500 to 9000 rpm in just o,6second its formula 1 technology
@@carholic-sz3qv I think it's around 5 thousand RPM in new F1.
around 4k
@@carholic-sz3qv no
If I remember correctly the v10 era idle spec was 6000-6400.
@10:38 Story is, that was the first time that engineer has smiled in the past 10 years..
They use unobtainium pistons
the first team that broke into the 18k rpm range was bmw williams in 2001 (monza).
So I highly doubt the 2000 mclaren would have gone that high.
Also if I my old books are correct the engines produces roundabout 800-850 hp in 2000. 850ish mostly in quali mode tho.
All we can put in our videos is the information that is presented to us, however when that information is coming from the guy who was the engine engineer for this particular car back in 2000 when it raced, we'll take that over google any day 😉
@@hpa101 It just shows peak power from v10 era is still uknown...probably kissing 1000hp in 2004 maybe??
Current v6 engines are masterpieces aswell, but much inferior to these beasts, there's no replacement for displacement really and a few more cylinders :D
Imagine these engines with Koenigsegg's free-valve technology....🤔🤔🤔
Is that a gallon of milk in the little fridge behind the host
Sure is. These Brits love a cuppa milky tea. - Ben
I live for this channel! I want that v10 how much is it now? :D
out of the reach of anyone those engines are seriously expensive
@@carholic-sz3qv yeah i know..the fact that you have to have warm fluids running through it to keep it at running temp is madness on its own..Love V10s esp that bmw
@@ThabaniTBowseHadebe0909 i´ll take the lexus LFA´s V10 that thing is a beast, seriously you know how that lexus engine rev so fast and so quick it can stop the rotation of the earth.
Yes they started the F1 cars once an hour to help keep the temps up so filming was a bit tricky as they would just go up and down the row running them one after the other haha Awesome experience I'm sure but tricky for the team to interview! - Taz.
To give you an idea, old cosworth DFV engines sell around and above 100,000k used. I'm sure this engine is deep in the six figures. Add the cost of the hydraulic system it takes to operate it and well, I think you get the idea.
Not 900 hp, and not 18.400 rpm that year, but later.
With 18000 rpm, This engine will be written off in every 1000km
Most high end race engines get rebuilt WAY before the equivalent of 1000km distance travelled
We want morree lol tell us your secrets