I love how enthusiastic you ended up being about this! I'm about halfway through this one right now and I'm enjoying it so far. Despite the marketing, I actually think it hews much closer to grimdark fantasy than to epic fantasy though. I know that genre tends to have much less crossover appeal, so I understand why that hasn't been part of the promotion, but it really reads like a higher class grimdark than it does like a literary epic fantasy - at least in the half of the book that I've read.
That's good to know! I am woefully underread in the fantasy genre, so I am unfamiliar with grimdark. It does sounds like a much better fitting descriptor. There are some unexpectedly tender moments in this book, but yeah for the most part it is unrelentingly dark! Glad to hear that you've been having a positive experience so far! :)
Wow, what a thorough and insightful review! This has been on my TBR list and you’ve certainly given me some food for thought as I had no idea how complex and dark it was. Still looking forward to reading it but now going in with a better understanding of what to expect. Thank you!
Thanks, glad to hear this was helpful! Most of the negative reviews I've seen about this book have been from readers who were shocked by James' writing style, so it might be better to go into this one knowing what you will be getting into! I hope you enjoy it when you decide to give it a try :)
I'm so glad to see a review of this novel! I'll be honest, I don't think I would have liked this book as much if I didn't absolutely love Marlon James. But his style just oozed from every page and I loved it! Definitely a book you have to really be invested in, not just a fun fantasy read haha. I had to read a bunch of parts over again! And Mossi, ugh my heart!! Love him. Thanks for a great review!
Glad to hear you enjoyed the book as well! I totally agree with you-- this book was quintessential Marlon! People seem to have a better experience with this one when they go in knowing what to expect. And yes, Mossi forever! :)
Haha I caught that "quick" thing... I was listening as I was getting ready this morning, and I was like.... why is this taking longer than it takes me to put makeup on... haha! I really appreciate your review and I didn't find it very biased at all, you explained things without just doing the "omg African Game of Thrones" thing. This book didn't work for me at all, but I have a better understanding of what James was doing now. PS I'm covering your Irvine Welsh collection in the background!
I read a proof in 2018 and it was instantly my favourite book of the year! I love it for the weirdness, the style, the characters, and the queerness etc etc. So glad to see someone who loved it review it so fully!
Wow, you are so lucky to have gotten an advance copy! I was so jealous of people who were reading it in 2018 haha :) Glad to hear you also enjoyed the book!
Your review was comprehensive & helpful, thanks! I read the first 100 pages last month and after realizing how heavy the violence & sexuality was going to be, I decided I need to be in the right headspace for it. I’m expecting to love the diversity & African mythology & disorienting storytelling aspects of it when I start it over again in a few months.
That sounds like a good decision. The first 100 pages are by far the most disorienting, and the story picks up a lot of momentum as it gets going! I hope you enjoy the experience when you try it again :)
Fantastic review! Really appreciated getting your perspective as someone who has read a lot of Marlon James's work...I'm still not sure if this one is for me, but it was nice to hear what you loved about it because I feel like a lot of the Booktube feedback I've been hearing is pretty "meh" so far (which I think is partly just a reaction to this book being so hyped/overhyped).
Thanks! I feel like the initial reviews I heard from critics and people with ARCs were like over-the-top positive, but now the response is shifting in the opposite direction. I get where people are coming from though, since if they are going in unprepared then I think that the intensity of the violence and the complex narrative style can be a bit of a shock. If you're thinking about giving Marlon a try, I highly recommend The Book of Night Women! It's on the shorter side and a brilliant read :)
I'm with you - I loved this book and went into it expecting to love it. I can totally see how not everyone will like it, but this book is exactly what I love about his style - witty, violent, and yet so very human. I heard/read some reviews of people complaining about being lost in the story too often, which really annoys me since being lost in the story is an integral part of African story-telling. The "game of thrones" descriptor came not from James but someone else, and I agree with you that it is selling the book short but also that it is a bit misleading. I totally got attached to a lot of characters, even though I knew I shouldn't :) Also, yes, the hyenas part really messed me up too - of all the violence in the book that part was the most difficult. Enjoyed your review tremendously!
Glad we share some similar opinions about this book! I agree that this is quintessential Marlon, so I think fans of his are going to be into it for the most part. Most of the more negative reviews that I've seen have been from people who are reading him for the first time (I'm sure the "game of thrones" pitch is not helping matters any!). Good point about the style of the story-telling! It definitely seemed deliberate :)
i was sooooo confused by this book. I put it down about 150 pages in. I adore this author though so, I may give it another go at some time in the future.
Totally fair! I would recommend giving it another try when you are more in the mood. The beginning of this book is very disorienting... I found the story really started picking up after the quest for the boy got going :)
It was tough to get into but I stuck with it and I'm SO THANKFUL I did. It's an amazing piece of work. Really looking forward to the next 2 books. Its challenging but worth it.
Thanks for this great review, I think it's really well balanced! I can understand your enthusiasm for the book, but I know now that it's probably not for me.
I'm saving this to watch for sure - after making some more progress in my mammoth. I'm really interested in your opinion about this very hyped release. Thanks for showing his Man Booker winner. I hadn't seen it and would like to read that eventually.
Finished Black Leopard, Red Wolf a week ago and absolutely loved it! There were two nauseating scenes that almost caused me physical pain... the torture chamber with white scientists, that Bad Ibeji thingy, oh my... and the scene that involves hyenas and the Tracker's eye, I still shiver when I think about that. Someone on goodreads commented that the novel is showing a lack of humanity, whereas in my opinion, it shows a great deal of humanity, at least if one is able to overlook the obscenities and vulgar language. I mean, cmon, the mingi children! And the fact that Tracker is about to rage whenever any children are treated badly. If I remember correctly, at some points the superstitions and witchery in relation to albinism is openly criticized (a real problem in Africa). Lack of humanity, bah!! I nearly cried at the final scene between Tracker and Leopard. So sad... Leopard even trying to change to his leopard form, but failing to do so properly... Also, the novel made me think of Kazuo Ishiguro's The Buried Giant, author of literary fiction taking conventions of fantasy genre to tell a story. The Buried Giant was marketed as "Game of Thrones with a conscience." Comparison to Game of Thrones means very little... Well, be as it may, I love both of these literary "Game of Thrones" novels. Did you wonder where does the door 10+9 take you? I thought 10+9 would take to door 1 or 10+8 (going backwards), but if you look at the map, the line from 10+9 goes outside the map.
Thank you for this review. I have this book on my May TBR. If I think of myself as the kind of reader that you describe liking books like this, do you think its ok to start with this book if I've never read anything else by Marlon James?
Yes, I think this is a fine starting place. If anything this one is easier in some ways since it is not written in thick Jamaican patois! The only thing would be to brace yourself for a dark and intense experience (something all of James' books have in common!). I hope you end up enjoying it in May :)
Really informative review--I had no idea the other books in this series are going to be re-tellings of this same story. Curious to see who the next POV characters will be. For me, all the questing and fight scenes drug a bit, but as a gay father of two, Tracker's family tragedy basically reduced me to tears. I'm in for the long haul, but may hesitate a bit before diving into the next installment.
Weird Book Book Club I saw that the second book is to be called Moon Witch, Night Devil & the third will be The Boy and the Dark Star. Some hints there on the POVs coming up!
I've heard the next book is going to be from Sogolon's perspective, so I'm looking forward to getting a better handle on her deal in the next instalment. And oh my goodness, I was a mess reading that part of the book! I can't imagine the trilogy getting more heartbreaking than that!
Great review Alex. I imagine if the next two in the trilogy are from different perspectives then he needed to keep something back where the characters are concerned, does that sound plausible? I'm so torn as to whether this is something I want to read, part of me thinks I should read something else by James first to see if I like his style but from what you said his books are so different, it might not help. Either way, very much enjoyed your balanced and detailed review.
Thank you! I don't think it is necessary to have read James before going into this, but I think it helps set expectations about how dark his writing can be! I highly recommend The Book of Night Women if you're looking for a different starting place. It's relatively short and so brilliant! :)
I got done reading Norwegian Wood and felt for a fantasy or more of a dark fantasy book and it was this or A wild sheep chase by murakami and I think I'll go with this for a different authors style of writing for a while to take a break from my murakami books, it will be a good change and I thank you for helping me make my mind I now will gift your 1 sub 👍😇
I hope you enjoy it! If you are feeling something dark, this should definitely fit the bill. And thank you for reminding me about A Wild Sheep Chase-- I've been meaning to read that one for years haha! :)
Was a challenging read and the beginning section doesn't make it easy for you. Some of the creatures are just all kinds of nope but brilliantly realized. That hyena bit was chilling, loved the idea of the Omoluzu but the Adze and that Bad Ibeji were just horrifying. I was not ready for those things.
Agreed, I found it a bit tough to find my footing in the first 100 pages. And OH MAN I was trying to bury my memories of the Bad Ibeji... that was all kinds of messed up!
Hi, Alex. We have very similar tastes. Good to know! In fact, this book is a good "dividing line," for me, because I came to this novel in January w/out knowing anything about it, nor its author, just hearing the hype, that it was a "Big, Hard Book," etc (I've never seen GOTs nor read any Martin ... I don't receive cable ... _Yes,_ "on purpose!" "Kill Yer Television!") and I think this novel epitomizes what 'ray Pound meant by his, "Make it NEW!" ya know? Cannot wait till the other two in the series (yes: "Same ol' story told from dif POVs" they/he sez; okay: a la _Sound & Fury_ & _Dying?_ Hallelujah! Bring 'em on . . .) People like me who love Pynchon's and Bolaño's "stories w/in stories" will eat this novel for breakfast, w/relish. I so too loved the Characters and Creatures and Worlds, and you mentioned some of my favs, Alex ... That "Tree House" World, to boot, remember? So crazy where the City/World went *_UP_* not *_OUT;_* it went _Vertical,_ not _Horizontal!_ _Tres Cool._ An amazingly superb read. And, readers who are "afraid" of this novel or "Don't wanna read it," for whatever _squeemish_ WHIMPY reason, I've got ... I've just got nothing for them. _Harry Potter Misses You,_ I say, to them. Good review, Alex.
Glad to know you enjoyed this one as well! I agree, I think Faulkner fans will find a lot to love in the way Marlon James writes his novels (especially Brief History of 7 Killings!). And I hadn't thought of that connection to Pynchon and Bolaño, but that's so true! LOVED the tree city-- so cool to read about! Hahaha "Harry Potter misses you" is a great slogan!
Far and away the best video I have watched about this book. Really well done
Thank you! :)
As soon as you said the book was like a "demented fun house," I figured it was right up your street.
Hahaha so true! :D
I love how enthusiastic you ended up being about this!
I'm about halfway through this one right now and I'm enjoying it so far. Despite the marketing, I actually think it hews much closer to grimdark fantasy than to epic fantasy though. I know that genre tends to have much less crossover appeal, so I understand why that hasn't been part of the promotion, but it really reads like a higher class grimdark than it does like a literary epic fantasy - at least in the half of the book that I've read.
That's good to know! I am woefully underread in the fantasy genre, so I am unfamiliar with grimdark. It does sounds like a much better fitting descriptor. There are some unexpectedly tender moments in this book, but yeah for the most part it is unrelentingly dark! Glad to hear that you've been having a positive experience so far! :)
Wow, what a thorough and insightful review! This has been on my TBR list and you’ve certainly given me some food for thought as I had no idea how complex and dark it was. Still looking forward to reading it but now going in with a better understanding of what to expect. Thank you!
Thanks, glad to hear this was helpful! Most of the negative reviews I've seen about this book have been from readers who were shocked by James' writing style, so it might be better to go into this one knowing what you will be getting into! I hope you enjoy it when you decide to give it a try :)
I've heard so much about this book.
It sounds super daunting.
Anway, great review!
Thanks! It's definitely not an easy read, but well worth the challenge in my opinion :)
I'm so glad to see a review of this novel! I'll be honest, I don't think I would have liked this book as much if I didn't absolutely love Marlon James. But his style just oozed from every page and I loved it! Definitely a book you have to really be invested in, not just a fun fantasy read haha. I had to read a bunch of parts over again! And Mossi, ugh my heart!! Love him. Thanks for a great review!
Glad to hear you enjoyed the book as well! I totally agree with you-- this book was quintessential Marlon! People seem to have a better experience with this one when they go in knowing what to expect. And yes, Mossi forever! :)
Haha I caught that "quick" thing... I was listening as I was getting ready this morning, and I was like.... why is this taking longer than it takes me to put makeup on... haha! I really appreciate your review and I didn't find it very biased at all, you explained things without just doing the "omg African Game of Thrones" thing. This book didn't work for me at all, but I have a better understanding of what James was doing now.
PS I'm covering your Irvine Welsh collection in the background!
Sorry to hear you didn't enjoy this one! And yeah I still haven't figured out this whole short/concise youtube video thing :P
I read a proof in 2018 and it was instantly my favourite book of the year! I love it for the weirdness, the style, the characters, and the queerness etc etc. So glad to see someone who loved it review it so fully!
Wow, you are so lucky to have gotten an advance copy! I was so jealous of people who were reading it in 2018 haha :) Glad to hear you also enjoyed the book!
Your review was comprehensive & helpful, thanks!
I read the first 100 pages last month and after realizing how heavy the violence & sexuality was going to be, I decided I need to be in the right headspace for it. I’m expecting to love the diversity & African mythology & disorienting storytelling aspects of it when I start it over again in a few months.
That sounds like a good decision. The first 100 pages are by far the most disorienting, and the story picks up a lot of momentum as it gets going! I hope you enjoy the experience when you try it again :)
Fantastic review! Really appreciated getting your perspective as someone who has read a lot of Marlon James's work...I'm still not sure if this one is for me, but it was nice to hear what you loved about it because I feel like a lot of the Booktube feedback I've been hearing is pretty "meh" so far (which I think is partly just a reaction to this book being so hyped/overhyped).
Thanks! I feel like the initial reviews I heard from critics and people with ARCs were like over-the-top positive, but now the response is shifting in the opposite direction. I get where people are coming from though, since if they are going in unprepared then I think that the intensity of the violence and the complex narrative style can be a bit of a shock. If you're thinking about giving Marlon a try, I highly recommend The Book of Night Women! It's on the shorter side and a brilliant read :)
I'm with you - I loved this book and went into it expecting to love it. I can totally see how not everyone will like it, but this book is exactly what I love about his style - witty, violent, and yet so very human. I heard/read some reviews of people complaining about being lost in the story too often, which really annoys me since being lost in the story is an integral part of African story-telling. The "game of thrones" descriptor came not from James but someone else, and I agree with you that it is selling the book short but also that it is a bit misleading. I totally got attached to a lot of characters, even though I knew I shouldn't :) Also, yes, the hyenas part really messed me up too - of all the violence in the book that part was the most difficult. Enjoyed your review tremendously!
Glad we share some similar opinions about this book! I agree that this is quintessential Marlon, so I think fans of his are going to be into it for the most part. Most of the more negative reviews that I've seen have been from people who are reading him for the first time (I'm sure the "game of thrones" pitch is not helping matters any!). Good point about the style of the story-telling! It definitely seemed deliberate :)
i was sooooo confused by this book. I put it down about 150 pages in. I adore this author though so, I may give it another go at some time in the future.
Totally fair! I would recommend giving it another try when you are more in the mood. The beginning of this book is very disorienting... I found the story really started picking up after the quest for the boy got going :)
Thanks for the excellent review! I especially found how you contextualized James' work helpful. Will check out the book.
Excellent, I hope you enjoy it! :)
It was tough to get into but I stuck with it and I'm SO THANKFUL I did. It's an amazing piece of work. Really looking forward to the next 2 books. Its challenging but worth it.
Thanks for this great review, I think it's really well balanced! I can understand your enthusiasm for the book, but I know now that it's probably not for me.
Thanks, I'm glad this could help you make up your mind about the book!
I'm saving this to watch for sure - after making some more progress in my mammoth. I'm really interested in your opinion about this very hyped release. Thanks for showing his Man Booker winner. I hadn't seen it and would like to read that eventually.
Glad you are still going strong with your mammoth! A Brief History of Seven Killings is a great book-- almost mammoth sized but not quite! :)
Finished Black Leopard, Red Wolf a week ago and absolutely loved it!
There were two nauseating scenes that almost caused me physical pain... the torture chamber with white scientists, that Bad Ibeji thingy, oh my... and the scene that involves hyenas and the Tracker's eye, I still shiver when I think about that.
Someone on goodreads commented that the novel is showing a lack of humanity, whereas in my opinion, it shows a great deal of humanity, at least if one is able to overlook the obscenities and vulgar language. I mean, cmon, the mingi children! And the fact that Tracker is about to rage whenever any children are treated badly. If I remember correctly, at some points the superstitions and witchery in relation to albinism is openly criticized (a real problem in Africa). Lack of humanity, bah!!
I nearly cried at the final scene between Tracker and Leopard. So sad... Leopard even trying to change to his leopard form, but failing to do so properly...
Also, the novel made me think of Kazuo Ishiguro's The Buried Giant, author of literary fiction taking conventions of fantasy genre to tell a story. The Buried Giant was marketed as "Game of Thrones with a conscience." Comparison to Game of Thrones means very little... Well, be as it may, I love both of these literary "Game of Thrones" novels.
Did you wonder where does the door 10+9 take you? I thought 10+9 would take to door 1 or 10+8 (going backwards), but if you look at the map, the line from 10+9 goes outside the map.
Thank you for this review. I have this book on my May TBR. If I think of myself as the kind of reader that you describe liking books like this, do you think its ok to start with this book if I've never read anything else by Marlon James?
Yes, I think this is a fine starting place. If anything this one is easier in some ways since it is not written in thick Jamaican patois! The only thing would be to brace yourself for a dark and intense experience (something all of James' books have in common!). I hope you end up enjoying it in May :)
Really informative review--I had no idea the other books in this series are going to be re-tellings of this same story. Curious to see who the next POV characters will be.
For me, all the questing and fight scenes drug a bit, but as a gay father of two, Tracker's family tragedy basically reduced me to tears. I'm in for the long haul, but may hesitate a bit before diving into the next installment.
Weird Book Book Club I saw that the second book is to be called Moon Witch, Night Devil & the third will be The Boy and the Dark Star. Some hints there on the POVs coming up!
I've heard the next book is going to be from Sogolon's perspective, so I'm looking forward to getting a better handle on her deal in the next instalment. And oh my goodness, I was a mess reading that part of the book! I can't imagine the trilogy getting more heartbreaking than that!
@@Nicathatsme I hadn't heard those titles yet... sounds intriguing!
Great review Alex. I imagine if the next two in the trilogy are from different perspectives then he needed to keep something back where the characters are concerned, does that sound plausible? I'm so torn as to whether this is something I want to read, part of me thinks I should read something else by James first to see if I like his style but from what you said his books are so different, it might not help. Either way, very much enjoyed your balanced and detailed review.
Thank you! I don't think it is necessary to have read James before going into this, but I think it helps set expectations about how dark his writing can be! I highly recommend The Book of Night Women if you're looking for a different starting place. It's relatively short and so brilliant! :)
I got done reading Norwegian Wood and felt for a fantasy or more of a dark fantasy book and it was this or A wild sheep chase by murakami and I think I'll go with this for a different authors style of writing for a while to take a break from my murakami books, it will be a good change and I thank you for helping me make my mind I now will gift your 1 sub 👍😇
I hope you enjoy it! If you are feeling something dark, this should definitely fit the bill. And thank you for reminding me about A Wild Sheep Chase-- I've been meaning to read that one for years haha! :)
Although I want to read other novels by Marlon James, I have no interest in this one; but I sure enjoyed hearing you rave about it!
Haha fair! I think The Book of Night Women might be my favourite by him so far :)
Was a challenging read and the beginning section doesn't make it easy for you. Some of the creatures are just all kinds of nope but brilliantly realized. That hyena bit was chilling, loved the idea of the Omoluzu but the Adze and that Bad Ibeji were just horrifying. I was not ready for those things.
Agreed, I found it a bit tough to find my footing in the first 100 pages. And OH MAN I was trying to bury my memories of the Bad Ibeji... that was all kinds of messed up!
Hi, Alex. We have very similar tastes. Good to know! In fact, this book is a good "dividing line," for me, because I came to this novel in January w/out knowing anything about it, nor its author, just hearing the hype, that it was a "Big, Hard Book," etc (I've never seen GOTs nor read any Martin ... I don't receive cable ... _Yes,_ "on purpose!" "Kill Yer Television!") and I think this novel epitomizes what 'ray Pound meant by his, "Make it NEW!" ya know? Cannot wait till the other two in the series (yes: "Same ol' story told from dif POVs" they/he sez; okay: a la _Sound & Fury_ & _Dying?_ Hallelujah! Bring 'em on . . .)
People like me who love Pynchon's and Bolaño's "stories w/in stories" will eat this novel for breakfast, w/relish. I so too loved the Characters and Creatures and Worlds, and you mentioned some of my favs, Alex ... That "Tree House" World, to boot, remember? So crazy where the City/World went *_UP_* not *_OUT;_* it went _Vertical,_ not _Horizontal!_ _Tres Cool._ An amazingly superb read. And, readers who are "afraid" of this novel or "Don't wanna read it," for whatever _squeemish_ WHIMPY reason, I've got ... I've just got nothing for them. _Harry Potter Misses You,_ I say, to them.
Good review, Alex.
Glad to know you enjoyed this one as well! I agree, I think Faulkner fans will find a lot to love in the way Marlon James writes his novels (especially Brief History of 7 Killings!). And I hadn't thought of that connection to Pynchon and Bolaño, but that's so true! LOVED the tree city-- so cool to read about! Hahaha "Harry Potter misses you" is a great slogan!