As far as I’m concerned part 2 doesn’t exist. The gameplay is good, but the story is just ridiculous & play as Abby was not a rewarding experience at all. I hope the makers of the tv show learned from these mistakes otherwise this franchise is dead.
The expectations after TLOU were skyhigh because it turned out to be one of the best games ever made and everyone hoped to keep up with their own standards. Lot of unfortunate staff changes and Druckmann's left without control and feedback led to the clumsy narrative which doesn't stand out. It could be a very good game on its own but compared to the perfect coherence of the first part it caused disappointment among the fanbase (which as of the 3rd best selling game ever is huge). The first part is such a masterpiece I don't want to ruin the image of the story because of openworldness and better gameplay. Look-and-feel doesn't count if it's not in sync with the narrative and doesn't delivers the same experience with its concise well-formed dialogs and superb pacing. Naughty Dog wanted way too much with openworld-like exploration areas and difficult story telling. They should have stripped down the story (and gametime, too) and could achieve the same success no matter what. They had the reputation to ignore the ridiculous trend and pressure from the players who buy gametime for their money. Good example when quantity won over quality. And it's not about the leakage, but the final result which wasn't as good as expected. TLOU is perfect because it doesn't let the player chillout he/she always has to move forward no matter what, keeps the tension and the focus on the story to lead you to listen to every sentence of the chit-chat dialogs which later proved to be very important. And because it's relatively short. Not every story has to have an end. TLOU was as good as is, it generated a lot of moral conversations and that is the most important in creating art (which we can state in case of TLOU). Telling a touching story and let people think and talk about it, what else can an ambitious game developer wish? But money talks and the hype pays.
i like that you presented both a condensed and nuanced point of view ; a lot of the rhetoric around this game has been quite extreme unfortunately, so i find this point of view refreshing
I didn't like and I hated it when Joel got killed, but I love and I loved the story it was brave from Neil to take this path but life is like this, no matter how good we want for things to stay on a happy note all the time, things will NOT. Is the most realistic way to portray human emotion, (Reality After All) is not a normal life situation, it is a different time, a different enviroment and way way different views of how life it is for them. Again even though killibg Joel was not what we wanted, it is a great realistic human emotion story and well written. All this in my honest opinion as a human and a player.
The whole point was to show the consequences of violence and how revenge is an endless cycle. Abby’s father was killed by Joel. Ellie’s father figure was killed by Abby. We follow both as protagonists so we can see how they might villainize each other. How a person is unable to understand that is beyond me.
@@LearsGhost nah the point was to make the player feel sorry for Abby this was the exact words from Neil druckman. But it didn’t work at all. It made me hate her even more and just frustrated me. Her character was shite.
Makes perfect sense...Joel was a piece of crap just like Abby, except you play as Joel in the first game and didn't care about all the bad things he had done, including murdering a bunch of people in a hospital to save a girl that wasn't even related to him, and yet Abby takes revenge for Joel killing her actual dad and that's a problem...makes absolutely no sense how it's ok to take revenge to save someone you aren't even related to but it's a crime to take revenge for your real father...the game isn't the problem, it's the childish people who play them.
last of part 2 would have been interesting if they added marlene son to beat the crap of joel and you play as him abby can be added too so both duos stick together focus on revenge would be interesting
The gameplay was great but the story was sloppy and dumb. It's like they didn't just kill Joel they killed everything he was about. All of a sudden he can't see traps and defend himself. All of a sudden he cares about people. He only cared about ellie and his brother. He would of immediately killed Abby or used her as bait to keep the infected away. That was Joel's real character. They betrayed the original writing and paid the price. If they want to save this franchise they should come out publicly and say that this is not canon and a new last of us 2 will be made with better writers and proper narrative.
People hated the game, being forced to play as Abby, who murdered Joel! Also, Joel death was lame. How could he die by a bunch if kids while he was able to kill an army of fireflies in the first game to save her daughter Ellie?!! Lame story, lame game design!
I sincerely doubt that your thoughts on the story or game design mean anything to the internet. You can't even type a coherent sentence, much less articulate your points effectively. Why would anyone care about your tantrum regarding a story that is more mature than yourself?
If anything pissed off most gamers, it's the working conditions Drunkman forced on the designers and programmers. Making a game about miserable people in miserable situations turned out to be a miserable experience for real people. Whodathunkit?
It ruined nothing. The Last of Us 2 was a phenomenal game in every way. The story of TLOU2 was complex , deep and is a natural consequence to everything that happened in the first game. Joel has been a cynical shell of a man and live to kill and survive since the very first game and that’s why he had a falling out with Tommy and even did what the hunters did occasionally. It’s loving Ellie like a family that turned him around and reawakened his humanity and his love for Ellie is what drove him to kill all those people at the end and lied straight to her face about it. You know nothing about writing if you think what happened in part 2 has nothing to do with part1. It has everything to do with it and builds on everything that was started there in a brilliant way. This story is about Ellie and her relationship with Joel but it’s also about every other character in the game. They are all layered and multidimensional. Abby was important because she was Ellie’s foil. Her counterpart in the story. Both Ellie and Abby started the game in different emotional states and motivation and ended it with a different emotional state and motivation. They both change through the game. The gameplay was very important to the story, learning more about Abby and seeing Ellie , Tommy and Joel through her perspective adds a lot of layers to Ellie, Joel and Tommy. Playing as Abby makes you see Ellie, Tommy and Joel as a complete whole and not just from one sided perspective but from both the extremes. You get to know Ellie in every way and from different perspectives.That boss fight with Ellie? It added so much depth to how I see Ellie and the same with the mysterious sniper moment with Tommy and Abby. Every moment in gameplay and every place in the environment was rich and added layers and dimensions to the world,story and characters. Ellie felt extremely guilty the whole game. If you understood anything about Elie in the first game , you should have understood that her greatest wish was for her immunity to save humanity. She felt deep in her heart that Joel was lying to her and they show you how she subtly questions Joel hoping he will tell her the truth by himself but he never did. She went and discovered the truth and it literally destroyed her. Joel took away her greatest desire , she wanted her immunity to mean something. She feels guilty being the only person with immunity and yet it means nothing for humanity( survive’s guilt very realistic) She loves Joel with all her heart but she can’t just easily forgive him for what he did. With time , she was slowly trying to mend what was broken between them and just when she started to forgive him he was taken from her brutally and in front of her eyes. She doesn’t only feel guilt about her immunity now, she feels guilt towards not being able to save Joel and she feels guilt towards the state of their relationship before his death. The PTSD here is damaging. It starts with anger and revenge , with time the guilt cripples her specially after she kills the pregnant lady. Now faced with Abby she feels all the guilt come back. The way she told her “ You don’t have a cure because of me, I’m the one you want” this just shows you how conflicted Ellie is. She feels guilty toward Joel and towards all of humanity including the fireflies. She took away their salvation. A world where these monsters are no longer there. Abby leaves Dina alive thanks to lev. Ellie tries to move on but she still feels so guilty over Joel. She can’t stop hearing his screams. She just wants that feeling to stop. She goes after Abby again and when she’s finally between her hands she understands the feeling of guilt will not stop even if she killed her. Ellie will just add a new guilt to her long list. That boy with Abby Lev , is just another Ellie with another Joel now. Joel used to be a merciless killer , meeting Ellie changed him for the better. Meeting Lev did the same for Abby. Ellie lets her go and that’s the first step in healing. Both Abby and Ellie understand now why Joel did what he did , Abby would do the same for Lev in a heartbeat and Ellie saw Joel and herself in Abby’s and Lev’s relationship. It’s all connected and it all serve the story. It was brilliant and phenomenal storytelling. It’s very rare for us to know our characters so intimately inside out and from different perspectives. Ellie leaving Abby alive was never about Abby herself. It was completely about Ellie and her realization. She didn’t need to see everything from Abby’s pov , all she needed was general knowledge of her circumstances to understand. Playing as Abby was important for us to see Ellie, Tommy and Joel in more complete ways. In ways we usually put in the back of our minds while we focus on how they see themselves instead of who they are as a whole. Abby was not presented in a good light. Even her friends and the people around her called her out for her brutality and her unpleasant personality. She was called out for torturing Joel instead of just killing him even when he saved her life. She was called out for ruining her relationship with Owen because of her aggressiveness but still got in the way of him moving on. She slept with a drunken man who was already with someone else and after she planted hope in his heart she pretended she cared nothing for what happened. She was called out for being Issac’s top killer with no remorse.The only reason she helped Lev and Aya was to make herself feel better because she knows she a scum of a human. That’s what the game presented. It’s only at the very end that she changed after she burned out all her bridges. She changed for real when she went through the village with Lev and Yara … that’s when she understood Joel because she would do anything to save Lev . She would do what Joel did. She understood she is just like him. She killed her own group to save Lev. It’s all connected and told beautifully. The two parts perfectly fit together. The nuance never left the story. It exists in part 2 even more than part 1. They never “spun” the ending. Joel’s choice has always been questionable. Even to us the players we ended the game feeling conflicted yet understanding. That’s why the ending was so powerful. It wasn’t a clear cut and left you thinking. You guys idolize and paint Joel as this man who can never slip up. Flash News, Joel is a nuanced, layered and multidimensional character. That’s why he’s compelling. The way you pretend a person suddenly lost his IQ or survival skills over a slip up is telling of how much you idolize him. There is not a single person alive who is always 100% careful. There is not a single person on this earth who makes smart decisions 100% of the time. That’s not how the human brain or heart works. No matter how smart, careful or prepared you are, you will slip up. You will make wrong decisions or stupid decisions. You will have a lapse in judgment. That’s human nature. Joel and Tommy got followed by a hoard , they saw someone who needed help. He helped a human against a hoard of infected. Nothing strange about that. The fact they met wasn’t such a strange coincidence because Abby was circling the same area trying to find Joel and Joel was sent to clear some of the lookouts that people might use to sneak in or infected might come through. Nothing wrong at all . The hoard got too much for them to handle and Joel and Tommy had to make the quick decision of following the girl to a safe place. Very realistic in this situation. Joel’s death was not cheap. It was very realistic. Also … I can’t believe you called Ellie a narcissist.. you Joel fans turn everyone into a villain to make yourself deal with Joel’s humanity.. including real people who wrote the story or directed it. Please think clearly and don’t let your bias blind you. Here is how the story was told: That is completely wrong and it’s just your bias talking. The story was a very natural progression of what happened in part 1 and it was brilliantly written and executed. The fact you think Ellie doesn’t have the right to get mad at Joel for ruining her life goal and killing the person who took care of her after her mother’s death shows how poorly you understand any human behavior. There are biological family members who stop talking to each other for years over petty stuff. We are talking about a cure to a horrible infection that killed billions and destroyed the world. The one acting overdramatic here is you and it’s over your favorite fictional character dying no less.🤷🏻♀️ PTSD doesn’t give you joy in case you don’t know. Ellie lost a lot just like Joel at the start of the first game but that doesn’t mean she can’t pick herself up later. It is a fact that the game was a natural progression to everything that happened in the first game, it’s a fact not an opinion. It’s also a fact that people with survivor’s guilt and severe PTSD struggle to find balance and happiness for a long time. They live in world full of death. This wasn’t “misery porn”. This was actual humans facing real dire situations like we face in civil wars. These circumstances deserve to be told and felt. They deserve to be spread so some people can understand others before it’s too late. Granted these beautiful stories can fall on deaf ears and blind eyes in some cases, but that doesn’t take away from their beauty and importance. Many people took it to heart in a good way and that’s what’s important.
While you make some good points. At the end of the day Abby committed something that most of us see as unforgivable. She didn't just kill Joel, the character you play an entire game as (excluding the dlc) she brutally tortures him in such a way that even her friends are disgusted by her. And yet we as the players are supposed to suddenly root for her and understand her? If she had just killed Joel or had felt conflicted after he saved her life it would have been better. But after what she did there was no redemption for most fans of the first game. Parts of the story work great and the gameplay and world are as incredible as anything else naughty dog has made, not many people are arguing that. But the overall direction and execution of the story was extremely poor and rushed. I'm glad you are one of the few who enjoyed the story and I really really hope that naughty dog continues as a developer. But end of the day Abby did such an unforgivable act that it completely ruins whatever parallels or sympathy they were aiming for.
I think the studio should move on from The Last of Us, you can't deny that they are milking this series until the cow is dry. Retelling the same story from the first game over and over (HBO series and Part 1 "Remake") won't fix part 2.
I understand many people didn't like part 2 but many people did myself included, yeah there were things that could have been done alot better but to say it ruined ND reputation is reaching! ND are still one of the best developers out there despite the hate they get, many games don't reach the level of detail ND has, I just find it hard to believe that if part 2 is really that bad then how could it have won game of the year?
It ruined their reputation in the sense that now they're most known for the studio that ruined Last of Us, and some people hate the company, even their past projects, which is crazy - M
@@2watch866 yeah, I really don't think it deserves the hate it gets tho, I get why people didn't like it but still, one "bad" game does not ruin the franchise imo lol
I think the game's story falls flat for me once it switches to abby and again in the ending. I see nothing wrong with Ellie having forgiven Joel but why not just kill abby? There's literally no reason not to and her character motivation is exactly that. It makes no sense. As for a remake of the first game. Yea its pointless since the game is fine how it is. I want a remaster of classic ps2 era games imo. The mechanical development and gameplay between this game and last of us 2 is very minimal. For comaprison lets look at the demon souls remake. That's about within the same time frame. Except one small issue. Mechanics and weapons have been vastly improved and many concepts from the first game fleshed out in the remake. There's no such room for this in the last of us remake. Only thing you could do is bring the great gameplay of the last of us 2 but it's basically just the added features of prone and the combat system. Everything else is the same.
I actually had fun with the gameplay of this game, but as the story dragged on, particularly in Abby's section, I started having less fun with it. Don't get me wrong, the gameplay changes were really nice, the addition of being able to prone, crawl under trucks, using the enviroment to hide in, that was really a nice change of pace from the first game. Personally, the story is what makes me keep coming back to a game. I have to be invested in a story to do more than one playthrough, but there were so many points where I got detatched from the story and it became a slog to get through towards the end. I started to get detatched from the story from the moment Joel was brutally murdered, not because he died, I knew in advance he was going to die from piecing it together from the back of the game case, no, it was how it was handled. There was no buildup to it, and it felt like they killed him just to kill him and demonize him and the used it as a plot device to get Ellie's revenge story going while completing Abby's revenge story. Abby's story could have been handled a little better as well, I found she was way too quick to burn bridges with her allies. She goes to get supplies from the WLF in secret using her connections that was fine, she wanted to save Yara I can get behind that, but when on Haven, she murders those same allies and Seraphites without any remorse. She attempts to murder a pregnant woman, again, without remorse, with only Lev stopping her, she even looked like she took pleasure in it. You can argue that Ellie did it as well, but Ellie physically was sick after discovering Mel's pregnancy, Ellie was even ready to let Mel and Owen go if they gave up Abby, it was they who attacked her, forcing her to defend herself. Mel herself at that point was distancing herself from Abby by calling her a piece of shit and she was always a piece of shit, so her joining Owen to attack Ellie seemed odd to me. Again, I loved the gameplay, some of the sections were really fun, and some were even challenging to get through. Requiring me to look for creative ways to eliminate enemies to try and save ammo for tougher encounters. My first encounter with the Seraphites with Ellie particularly stands out to me, I intentionally gave up ground to them to try and thin out their numbers and make them fight on my terms, not theirs. I loved that aspect of the game, to do things like that.
Not really. If the game ruined naughty dogs reputation then the game wouldn't have sold as well as it did. And even after tlou2 tloupart1 is selling really well
the hole thing with the last off us 2 is just a shame i dont think naughy dog deserved that much hate the last off us 2 is not even a bad game in general in my opinion
It sucks because the potential was there but I just didn't enjoy playing it at all, gameplay wise prone is the one big innovation and it can be fun for a bit before you realize how basic it is, most of the gameplay systems are just shallow, the upgrades for ellie are mostly pointless too. Storywise it's a mess, I like the direction they wanted to go in but the execution was a total misfire for me, and some plot points are just so absolutely unnecessary and given way too much focus in the game, one being Levs story arc, the game needed to be more focused and cut down, it got too bland and big for its own good, it's why the first game worked so well
Yes! They should have stripped the story and keep the pacing just like in TLOU1 but they jumped onto the gametime=money bandwagon and quantity ruined the quality. Shame.
I played the sequel on the second to hardest difficulty without any leaks or spoilers and I really enjoyed it and thought it was almost 10/10. It wasn’t a perfect execution and the story definitely has some flaws but at the same time there’s no other game on the market with story telling at this level except for maybe RDR2. I think the lowest I could give this game is an 8/10. The gameplay is that good
Same thing happened to cyberpunk does that mean that it is good? No. You can give a game bisilions amount of awards and sold copies. If your beloved fans stop liking it then your reputation is ruined. Of course it sold many copies that doesn't mean it's good. I need to play the game to know if it's good. And yet it's a hot pile of woke garbage.
To be fair, game awards and gaming access media/ journalists do not have the same kind of credibility today as they once did. It is also important to note that almost half of those sales were preorders and orders within the first week. Which means in a large part, it had more to do with the goodwill and impact of Part 1 which was universally praised. And the 10 million total sales at the moment is underperformance considering even a game like Cyberpunk has sold more copies. Compared to the first TLOU, the sales have been underwhelming considering that fact that the total base of gamers and console owners has increased exponentially over the last decade.
it has garbage story with even more garbage pacing with characters from the original game making stupid decisions like Tommy and Joel gave out their names. when Joel was clearly salty that Ellie called his name when he was beating the shit out of Henry. the gameplay was fun though.
tlou 2 story not godd but gameplay so good like we can use dodge here compare to part 1 and hate lesbian scene there , without lesbian scene and better story tlou 2 #1 game from naughty and i put uncharted 4 to #2
I gave it the benefit of the doubt and it disappointed me. It was too convoluted. It would've made sense if this was part three and two ended with Joel's death.
Look whatever people have to say about the game it’s great. The story has its flaw but the gameplay the feel of the story the emotion that it can bring if you take a second to see past the hypocrisy of the elements of the girls people don’t like
As far as I’m concerned part 2 doesn’t exist. The gameplay is good, but the story is just ridiculous & play as Abby was not a rewarding experience at all. I hope the makers of the tv show learned from these mistakes otherwise this franchise is dead.
The franchise is dead, suspended in or memory from 10 years ago
If it wasn't for Bruce, tlou1 would flop too
The expectations after TLOU were skyhigh because it turned out to be one of the best games ever made and everyone hoped to keep up with their own standards.
Lot of unfortunate staff changes and Druckmann's left without control and feedback led to the clumsy narrative which doesn't stand out.
It could be a very good game on its own but compared to the perfect coherence of the first part it caused disappointment among the fanbase (which as of the 3rd best selling game ever is huge).
The first part is such a masterpiece I don't want to ruin the image of the story because of openworldness and better gameplay.
Look-and-feel doesn't count if it's not in sync with the narrative and doesn't delivers the same experience with its concise well-formed dialogs and superb pacing.
Naughty Dog wanted way too much with openworld-like exploration areas and difficult story telling. They should have stripped down the story (and gametime, too) and could achieve the same success no matter what. They had the reputation to ignore the ridiculous trend and pressure from the players who buy gametime for their money.
Good example when quantity won over quality. And it's not about the leakage, but the final result which wasn't as good as expected.
TLOU is perfect because it doesn't let the player chillout he/she always has to move forward no matter what, keeps the tension and the focus on the story to lead you to listen to every sentence of the chit-chat dialogs which later proved to be very important. And because it's relatively short.
Not every story has to have an end.
TLOU was as good as is, it generated a lot of moral conversations and that is the most important in creating art (which we can state in case of TLOU).
Telling a touching story and let people think and talk about it, what else can an ambitious game developer wish?
But money talks and the hype pays.
i like that you presented both a condensed and nuanced point of view ; a lot of the rhetoric around this game has been quite extreme unfortunately, so i find this point of view refreshing
Thank you for your kind comment - M
Exelent work, guys!!! Thanks a lot! I like it!!!
I loved the beginning with Dena and Ellie going around looking for the codes and so on so much story and great gameplay
The story could have been better. The story is boring and pointless. But the basic of the script is good
I agree. One of my main complaints about the story is that is just so boring.
I didn't like and I hated it when Joel got killed, but I love and I loved the story it was brave from Neil to take this path but life is like this, no matter how good we want for things to stay on a happy note all the time, things will NOT. Is the most realistic way to portray human emotion, (Reality After All) is not a normal life situation, it is a different time, a different enviroment and way way different views of how life it is for them. Again even though killibg Joel was not what we wanted, it is a great realistic human emotion story and well written. All this in my honest opinion as a human and a player.
I just can’t understand why they would kill the main character and then force you to play as their killer it just doesn’t make sense
I fully agree with you
The whole point was to show the consequences of violence and how revenge is an endless cycle. Abby’s father was killed by Joel. Ellie’s father figure was killed by Abby. We follow both as protagonists so we can see how they might villainize each other. How a person is unable to understand that is beyond me.
Yeah it’s bs and they fucked up
@@LearsGhost nah the point was to make the player feel sorry for Abby this was the exact words from Neil druckman. But it didn’t work at all. It made me hate her even more and just frustrated me. Her character was shite.
Makes perfect sense...Joel was a piece of crap just like Abby, except you play as Joel in the first game and didn't care about all the bad things he had done, including murdering a bunch of people in a hospital to save a girl that wasn't even related to him, and yet Abby takes revenge for Joel killing her actual dad and that's a problem...makes absolutely no sense how it's ok to take revenge to save someone you aren't even related to but it's a crime to take revenge for your real father...the game isn't the problem, it's the childish people who play them.
last of part 2 would have been interesting if they added marlene son to beat the crap of joel
and you play as him
abby can be added too
so both duos stick together focus on revenge would be interesting
Since when did Marlene have a son
The gameplay was great but the story was sloppy and dumb. It's like they didn't just kill Joel they killed everything he was about. All of a sudden he can't see traps and defend himself. All of a sudden he cares about people. He only cared about ellie and his brother. He would of immediately killed Abby or used her as bait to keep the infected away. That was Joel's real character. They betrayed the original writing and paid the price. If they want to save this franchise they should come out publicly and say that this is not canon and a new last of us 2 will be made with better writers and proper narrative.
Did we play the same game?
People hated the game, being forced to play as Abby, who murdered Joel! Also, Joel death was lame. How could he die by a bunch if kids while he was able to kill an army of fireflies in the first game to save her daughter Ellie?!! Lame story, lame game design!
Um, he received a shotgun blast to the knee...no way could he survive after that.
I sincerely doubt that your thoughts on the story or game design mean anything to the internet. You can't even type a coherent sentence, much less articulate your points effectively. Why would anyone care about your tantrum regarding a story that is more mature than yourself?
They didn't need him anymore so they killed him off. Also Neil Druckman wanted to kill him off in the first one, if I could remember correctly
I love both games. Amazing story and care for both titles from its designers
If anything pissed off most gamers, it's the working conditions Drunkman forced on the designers and programmers. Making a game about miserable people in miserable situations turned out to be a miserable experience for real people. Whodathunkit?
It ruined nothing. The Last of Us 2 was a phenomenal game in every way. The story of TLOU2 was complex , deep and is a natural consequence to everything that happened in the first game. Joel has been a cynical shell of a man and live to kill and survive since the very first game and that’s why he had a falling out with Tommy and even did what the hunters did occasionally. It’s loving Ellie like a family that turned him around and reawakened his humanity and his love for Ellie is what drove him to kill all those people at the end and lied straight to her face about it. You know nothing about writing if you think what happened in part 2 has nothing to do with part1. It has everything to do with it and builds on everything that was started there in a brilliant way.
This story is about Ellie and her relationship with Joel but it’s also about every other character in the game. They are all layered and multidimensional. Abby was important because she was Ellie’s foil. Her counterpart in the story. Both Ellie and Abby started the game in different emotional states and motivation and ended it with a different emotional state and motivation. They both change through the game. The gameplay was very important to the story, learning more about Abby and seeing Ellie , Tommy and Joel through her perspective adds a lot of layers to Ellie, Joel and Tommy. Playing as Abby makes you see Ellie, Tommy and Joel as a complete whole and not just from one sided perspective but from both the extremes. You get to know Ellie in every way and from different perspectives.That boss fight with Ellie? It added so much depth to how I see Ellie and the same with the mysterious sniper moment with Tommy and Abby. Every moment in gameplay and every place in the environment was rich and added layers and dimensions to the world,story and characters. Ellie felt extremely guilty the whole game. If you understood anything about Elie in the first game , you should have understood that her greatest wish was for her immunity to save humanity. She felt deep in her heart that Joel was lying to her and they show you how she subtly questions Joel hoping he will tell her the truth by himself but he never did. She went and discovered the truth and it literally destroyed her. Joel took away her greatest desire , she wanted her immunity to mean something. She feels guilty being the only person with immunity and yet it means nothing for humanity( survive’s guilt very realistic) She loves Joel with all her heart but she can’t just easily forgive him for what he did. With time , she was slowly trying to mend what was broken between them and just when she started to forgive him he was taken from her brutally and in front of her eyes. She doesn’t only feel guilt about her immunity now, she feels guilt towards not being able to save Joel and she feels guilt towards the state of their relationship before his death. The PTSD here is damaging. It starts with anger and revenge , with time the guilt cripples her specially after she kills the pregnant lady. Now faced with Abby she feels all the guilt come back. The way she told her “ You don’t have a cure because of me, I’m the one you want” this just shows you how conflicted Ellie is. She feels guilty toward Joel and towards all of humanity including the fireflies. She took away their salvation. A world where these monsters are no longer there. Abby leaves Dina alive thanks to lev. Ellie tries to move on but she still feels so guilty over Joel. She can’t stop hearing his screams. She just wants that feeling to stop. She goes after Abby again and when she’s finally between her hands she understands the feeling of guilt will not stop even if she killed her. Ellie will just add a new guilt to her long list. That boy with Abby Lev , is just another Ellie with another Joel now. Joel used to be a merciless killer , meeting Ellie changed him for the better. Meeting Lev did the same for Abby. Ellie lets her go and that’s the first step in healing. Both Abby and Ellie understand now why Joel did what he did , Abby would do the same for Lev in a heartbeat and Ellie saw Joel and herself in Abby’s and Lev’s relationship. It’s all connected and it all serve the story. It was brilliant and phenomenal storytelling. It’s very rare for us to know our characters so intimately inside out and from different perspectives. Ellie leaving Abby alive was never about Abby herself. It was completely about Ellie and her realization. She didn’t need to see everything from Abby’s pov , all she needed was general knowledge of her circumstances to understand. Playing as Abby was important for us to see Ellie, Tommy and Joel in more complete ways. In ways we usually put in the back of our minds while we focus on how they see themselves instead of who they are as a whole. Abby was not presented in a good light. Even her friends and the people around her called her out for her brutality and her unpleasant personality. She was called out for torturing Joel instead of just killing him even when he saved her life. She was called out for ruining her relationship with Owen because of her aggressiveness but still got in the way of him moving on. She slept with a drunken man who was already with someone else and after she planted hope in his heart she pretended she cared nothing for what happened. She was called out for being Issac’s top killer with no remorse.The only reason she helped Lev and Aya was to make herself feel better because she knows she a scum of a human. That’s what the game presented. It’s only at the very end that she changed after she burned out all her bridges. She changed for real when she went through the village with Lev and Yara … that’s when she understood Joel because she would do anything to save Lev . She would do what Joel did. She understood she is just like him. She killed her own group to save Lev. It’s all connected and told beautifully.
The two parts perfectly fit together. The nuance never left the story. It exists in part 2 even more than part 1. They never “spun” the ending. Joel’s choice has always been questionable. Even to us the players we ended the game feeling conflicted yet understanding. That’s why the ending was so powerful. It wasn’t a clear cut and left you thinking.
You guys idolize and paint Joel as this man who can never slip up. Flash News, Joel is a nuanced, layered and multidimensional character. That’s why he’s compelling. The way you pretend a person suddenly lost his IQ or survival skills over a slip up is telling of how much you idolize him. There is not a single person alive who is always 100% careful. There is not a single person on this earth who makes smart decisions 100% of the time. That’s not how the human brain or heart works. No matter how smart, careful or prepared you are, you will slip up. You will make wrong decisions or stupid decisions. You will have a lapse in judgment. That’s human nature. Joel and Tommy got followed by a hoard , they saw someone who needed help. He helped a human against a hoard of infected. Nothing strange about that. The fact they met wasn’t such a strange coincidence because Abby was circling the same area trying to find Joel and Joel was sent to clear some of the lookouts that people might use to sneak in or infected might come through. Nothing wrong at all . The hoard got too much for them to handle and Joel and Tommy had to make the quick decision of following the girl to a safe place. Very realistic in this situation. Joel’s death was not cheap. It was very realistic. Also … I can’t believe you called Ellie a narcissist.. you Joel fans turn everyone into a villain to make yourself deal with Joel’s humanity.. including real people who wrote the story or directed it. Please think clearly and don’t let your bias blind you. Here is how the story was told:
That is completely wrong and it’s just your bias talking. The story was a very natural progression of what happened in part 1 and it was brilliantly written and executed. The fact you think Ellie doesn’t have the right to get mad at Joel for ruining her life goal and killing the person who took care of her after her mother’s death shows how poorly you understand any human behavior. There are biological family members who stop talking to each other for years over petty stuff. We are talking about a cure to a horrible infection that killed billions and destroyed the world. The one acting overdramatic here is you and it’s over your favorite fictional character dying no less.🤷🏻♀️
PTSD doesn’t give you joy in case you don’t know. Ellie lost a lot just like Joel at the start of the first game but that doesn’t mean she can’t pick herself up later. It is a fact that the game was a natural progression to everything that happened in the first game, it’s a fact not an opinion. It’s also a fact that people with survivor’s guilt and severe PTSD struggle to find balance and happiness for a long time. They live in world full of death. This wasn’t “misery porn”. This was actual humans facing real dire situations like we face in civil wars. These circumstances deserve to be told and felt. They deserve to be spread so some people can understand others before it’s too late. Granted these beautiful stories can fall on deaf ears and blind eyes in some cases, but that doesn’t take away from their beauty and importance. Many people took it to heart in a good way and that’s what’s important.
While you make some good points. At the end of the day Abby committed something that most of us see as unforgivable. She didn't just kill Joel, the character you play an entire game as (excluding the dlc) she brutally tortures him in such a way that even her friends are disgusted by her. And yet we as the players are supposed to suddenly root for her and understand her? If she had just killed Joel or had felt conflicted after he saved her life it would have been better. But after what she did there was no redemption for most fans of the first game. Parts of the story work great and the gameplay and world are as incredible as anything else naughty dog has made, not many people are arguing that. But the overall direction and execution of the story was extremely poor and rushed. I'm glad you are one of the few who enjoyed the story and I really really hope that naughty dog continues as a developer. But end of the day Abby did such an unforgivable act that it completely ruins whatever parallels or sympathy they were aiming for.
I’m not reading your essay of a comment but the story was absolute garbage
@@Hard2hit94facts 😂😂
I think the studio should move on from The Last of Us, you can't deny that they are milking this series until the cow is dry. Retelling the same story from the first game over and over (HBO series and Part 1 "Remake") won't fix part 2.
Here as of 11/19/2023, Naughty Dog is still milking The Last of Us with both Part II Remastered and working on HBO's The Last of Us Season 2.
Nothing to fix. Part 2 was good.
I understand many people didn't like part 2 but many people did myself included, yeah there were things that could have been done alot better but to say it ruined ND reputation is reaching! ND are still one of the best developers out there despite the hate they get, many games don't reach the level of detail ND has, I just find it hard to believe that if part 2 is really that bad then how could it have won game of the year?
It ruined their reputation in the sense that now they're most known for the studio that ruined Last of Us, and some people hate the company, even their past projects, which is crazy - M
@@2watch866 yeah, I really don't think it deserves the hate it gets tho, I get why people didn't like it but still, one "bad" game does not ruin the franchise imo lol
@@waynefowler782 In a "franchise" with only two games, it only takes one to ruin it.
Tlou2 has a great story, and is a great game.
It didn’t have a great story but it had great gameplay and mechanics such a waste
Everything else besides the story was great.
I think the game's story falls flat for me once it switches to abby and again in the ending. I see nothing wrong with Ellie having forgiven Joel but why not just kill abby? There's literally no reason not to and her character motivation is exactly that. It makes no sense.
As for a remake of the first game. Yea its pointless since the game is fine how it is. I want a remaster of classic ps2 era games imo. The mechanical development and gameplay between this game and last of us 2 is very minimal.
For comaprison lets look at the demon souls remake. That's about within the same time frame. Except one small issue. Mechanics and weapons have been vastly improved and many concepts from the first game fleshed out in the remake. There's no such room for this in the last of us remake. Only thing you could do is bring the great gameplay of the last of us 2 but it's basically just the added features of prone and the combat system. Everything else is the same.
I actually had fun with the gameplay of this game, but as the story dragged on, particularly in Abby's section, I started having less fun with it. Don't get me wrong, the gameplay changes were really nice, the addition of being able to prone, crawl under trucks, using the enviroment to hide in, that was really a nice change of pace from the first game.
Personally, the story is what makes me keep coming back to a game. I have to be invested in a story to do more than one playthrough, but there were so many points where I got detatched from the story and it became a slog to get through towards the end. I started to get detatched from the story from the moment Joel was brutally murdered, not because he died, I knew in advance he was going to die from piecing it together from the back of the game case, no, it was how it was handled. There was no buildup to it, and it felt like they killed him just to kill him and demonize him and the used it as a plot device to get Ellie's revenge story going while completing Abby's revenge story.
Abby's story could have been handled a little better as well, I found she was way too quick to burn bridges with her allies. She goes to get supplies from the WLF in secret using her connections that was fine, she wanted to save Yara I can get behind that, but when on Haven, she murders those same allies and Seraphites without any remorse. She attempts to murder a pregnant woman, again, without remorse, with only Lev stopping her, she even looked like she took pleasure in it. You can argue that Ellie did it as well, but Ellie physically was sick after discovering Mel's pregnancy, Ellie was even ready to let Mel and Owen go if they gave up Abby, it was they who attacked her, forcing her to defend herself. Mel herself at that point was distancing herself from Abby by calling her a piece of shit and she was always a piece of shit, so her joining Owen to attack Ellie seemed odd to me.
Again, I loved the gameplay, some of the sections were really fun, and some were even challenging to get through. Requiring me to look for creative ways to eliminate enemies to try and save ammo for tougher encounters. My first encounter with the Seraphites with Ellie particularly stands out to me, I intentionally gave up ground to them to try and thin out their numbers and make them fight on my terms, not theirs. I loved that aspect of the game, to do things like that.
I think you're just a fanboy of naughty dog
I wish naughty dog updated uncharted 4 multiplayer More and add maps from uncharted 3 multiplayer and2
Not really. If the game ruined naughty dogs reputation then the game wouldn't have sold as well as it did. And even after tlou2 tloupart1 is selling really well
the hole thing with the last off us 2 is just a shame i dont think naughy dog deserved that much hate the last off us 2 is not even a bad game in general in my opinion
It sucks because the potential was there but I just didn't enjoy playing it at all, gameplay wise prone is the one big innovation and it can be fun for a bit before you realize how basic it is, most of the gameplay systems are just shallow, the upgrades for ellie are mostly pointless too. Storywise it's a mess, I like the direction they wanted to go in but the execution was a total misfire for me, and some plot points are just so absolutely unnecessary and given way too much focus in the game, one being Levs story arc, the game needed to be more focused and cut down, it got too bland and big for its own good, it's why the first game worked so well
Yes! They should have stripped the story and keep the pacing just like in TLOU1 but they jumped onto the gametime=money bandwagon and quantity ruined the quality.
Shame.
I played the sequel on the second to hardest difficulty without any leaks or spoilers and I really enjoyed it and thought it was almost 10/10. It wasn’t a perfect execution and the story definitely has some flaws but at the same time there’s no other game on the market with story telling at this level except for maybe RDR2. I think the lowest I could give this game is an 8/10. The gameplay is that good
It's difficult to love this game but it's an experience too unique and impactful not to be thought as good
As far as media it’s a masterpiece I just found it hard to play through and felt depressed through the whole thing
@@Hard2hit94 exactly. I hated the story for TLOU2, loved TLOU1 tho...
So being the most awarded game in history, winning game of the year and selling over 10 million copies is a ruined reputation?
Mate the games story is shite and ruined it for a lot of real the last of us fans
Same thing happened to cyberpunk does that mean that it is good? No. You can give a game bisilions amount of awards and sold copies. If your beloved fans stop liking it then your reputation is ruined. Of course it sold many copies that doesn't mean it's good. I need to play the game to know if it's good. And yet it's a hot pile of woke garbage.
To be fair, game awards and gaming access media/ journalists do not have the same kind of credibility today as they once did. It is also important to note that almost half of those sales were preorders and orders within the first week. Which means in a large part, it had more to do with the goodwill and impact of Part 1 which was universally praised. And the 10 million total sales at the moment is underperformance considering even a game like Cyberpunk has sold more copies. Compared to the first TLOU, the sales have been underwhelming considering that fact that the total base of gamers and console owners has increased exponentially over the last decade.
it has garbage story with even more garbage pacing with characters from the original game making stupid decisions like Tommy and Joel gave out their names. when Joel was clearly salty that Ellie called his name when he was beating the shit out of Henry.
the gameplay was fun though.
tlou 2 story not godd but gameplay so good like we can use dodge here compare to part 1 and hate lesbian scene there , without lesbian scene and better story tlou 2 #1 game from naughty and i put uncharted 4 to #2
I gave it the benefit of the doubt and it disappointed me. It was too convoluted. It would've made sense if this was part three and two ended with Joel's death.
Look whatever people have to say about the game it’s great. The story has its flaw but the gameplay the feel of the story the emotion that it can bring if you take a second to see past the hypocrisy of the elements of the girls people don’t like
Lmao y'all still crying about this it was a good game Joel died get over it
What was so good about it?
Nobody ruined nothing..TLOU part 1 & 2 are masterpieces…ffs🙈