AMELI: Spain's Not-Mini-MG42 in 5.56mm
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2023
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The AMELI (which is a contraction of "ametralladora ligera", or light machine gun) was introduced by CETME in 1981, and adopted by the Spanish military as the MG82. It was a counterpart LMG to the new CETME-L 5.56mm rifles, and is a mechanically fascinating design.
The AMELI is a roller-delayed blowback system. Although it takes a lot of visual cues form the MG42, it's not simply a copy of that classic. What makes the AMELI so intriguing is it combination of excellent mechanical simplicity, light weight (6.7kg/14.7 lb), and handiness. It is a belt-fed gun, with a rate of fire around 900rpm - fast, but not too fast.
Unfortunately the AMELI suffered a reputation for fragility, and never saw widespread adoption or real commercial success. It was adopted by Spain, Mexico, and Malaysia in limited numbers, but was replaced by the H&K MG4 in Spain in 2008. Production ended in 2003, with only 3000-4000 apparently being made.
Big thanks to DSA for giving me the opportunity to disassemble and film this one for you!
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The color. The classic lines. The handiness. The romance language name. No denying that the Ameli has *swag*.
Is this a disco elysium reference? This comment reminds me so much of that games writing 😂
@@simonblackwell3576 so true lmao
The British SAS adopted the Ameli after testing procurement samples but when the production order was received they were all sent back to CETME due to numerous problems
If SAS like this mishine gun but denied by the reason of quality, then they need to use a Switzerland mahine gun that comes directly from mg45 concept
@@user-nd7hq5vk4ngood luck getting the British government to pay Swiss prices for a machine gun
@Woodie-xq1ew
For the sas, they possibly would of.
That is a seriously attractive MG. If they had a semi auto only version I might be tempted as a range toy
Seems to be the trend with Spanish guns. Good design, poor QC.
In my five years of service in the spanish marines expeditionary brigade, never saw any of those cute pieces of junk shoot 10 rounds without a malfunction.
I was lucky enough to be in the fire support section of the company, with the MG 42s and 60mm mortars. Twice the weight, but worked every time.
The riflemen platoons consisted of two fire teams, each with an AMELI, a C90 rocket launcher and a grenadier.
Never fully understood why they jammed so much, but if you've seen spanish marines doing move n shoot manouvers, and how the gunners slam those things against the ground, maybe you get an idea (that's probably why we had to weld the receivers). MGs were totally cool with this treatment, though 😂
Its ashame they never performed properly because its a really cool looking firearm and on paper seems fantastic.
They suffered the same that Cetme-L, nice design, good prototypes, awful build quality on regular production.
@MiguelAngel-nf5zy
As designs, both those firearms are fantastic.
It's sad the Spanish didn't sell both of those designs to another manufacturer, I'm sure it would have been very commercially viable.
@@studentaviator3756theoretically the design is now owned by general dynamics so its up to them if they ever want to see a revision of these guns. unlikely to happen ever tho
@joemama.556 I can't see general dyamics ever redesigning and manufacturing it.
It's missed its opportunity to be a success :(.
It's unfortunate that the gun gained a reputation for fragility, impacting its wider adoption and commercial success. The AMELI's story is a reminder of how factors beyond just technical capability can influence the fate of a firearm. Kudos for shedding light on this lesser-known gem of firearms history!
Fun to fire bullet hose, but CETME were really screwing up on quality control. But OMG its fun to fire. 1200 rpm version with light bolt is amazing.
@@brokeandtired Apparently the govern pushed the cost cut way too much. Like the CETME-L the first batches apparently were very good but then they began to use cheap plastic, etc.
@@Huma270490 I can refrend that argument. First units were way better. PLUS, the units for the Guardia Civil (LC) were around 3 times more expensive than the L units for the Army. Never had an LC unit from the EA... We had them in storage, but after 20 years being comissioned to my unit, no one got out of the box, and were decomissioned being completely NEW.
So, i can talk about the ET L version, and about the GC LC version, but not about the EA LC version.
I can tell the ET L, got screwed after three months of use. It worked like a charm when it was new, but it started to show failures and wear soon after the first shots.
If you ask, yes... I was able to wear the three uniforms.
It was a general problem in Europe at the time the Famas had problems also and the SA 80 system was a total disaster@@brokeandtired
What a neat piece of firearm history
@nikolai1317 And, thanks to Ian, not lost or forgotten as a piece of history.
@nikolai1317
Yeah? What about a nice piece of my balls
No joke, problematic parts of the design aside, it's got a ton of super-clever elements to it. Never even heard of it before today.
Absolutely beautiful design
What's the RPM on this
A very well designed LMG that deserved more success but was unfortunately let down by its maker. The SAS (or possibly the SBS) tested this gun and liked it enough to place an order. But like Ian said, the QC of the production guns weren't quite up to the test samples so they ended up cancelling the order.
It was the SBS I think; and the problem was that they try to cut corners on the serial models to reduce costs.
So the proof models were excellent and at 1/3 of the cost of the HKMG23; but the serial models were problematic.
@@sergiom9958Thanks for the correction. I've updated the comment to include it may have been the SBS.
I use this thing on rainbow six siege
@@kutter_ttl6786 Cheers man, thanks for watching the comments, and responding to the good ones. Thankyou for that.
It was a pitty because Spanish designs were pretty clever but the mass production were just a desaster. The Ameli could have been one of the best light machineguns in its time
I loved the Ameli. So much better than the Minimi! Lighter, more comfortable, more reliable, but on that last I guess I just got lucky in having an armorer who basically completely rebuilt it, using the CETME design but fabricating his own components, from barrel and bolt to body and bipod!
@@davidgoodnow269 It's a shame a proper gun manufacturer didn't put his hands on the AMELI design, ironing out the industrialization problems.
U.S. Ordnance did that for the quite disastrous M60, and the M60e6 ended up seemingly being a good MG.
In an alternate world IE, instead of acquiring the licence to produce the Minimi, Beretta could have acquired that for the AMELI.
That's what happens when the MOD says that almost half of the budget has been cut
I agree with you. If it had been made with good materials it would have been a magnificent weapon. What a pity. Best regars from Spain
@@neutronalchemist3241 A Beretta produced Ameli sounds like an absolute dream
I've watched you for more or less 12 years now and as a Spanish person I've waited for this video for years
Igual
Está guapísimo el canal
Pretty cool to see how the MG42 design could evolve. That rear sight/barrel/carry handle is pretty slick for sure.
We used to fit an old SUSAT scope on top of it and make it accurate up to 600m. When it felt like shooting properly, that is.
I don't think I've ever seen a weapon disassembled quite so thoroughly.
The Spaniards have a lot of interesting ideas on the record, always cool to see these in detail.
One of the coolest LMGs. Thanks Ian.
It's not one of the coolest. In the words of Dugan from Carnik Con it's "wicked hot".
Another amazing gun generously provided to us by Gun Jesus
I fired one of these in Spain. We US Marines were cross training with the Spanish Marines.
The Spanish used conscripts that probably added to the breakage.
This was in the late eighties when I fired it. They may have still been new enough not to malfunction constantly.
Looks like something the marines from Aliens would use.
Oddly enough the basis for the original m41a and m41a2 was the thompson smg, don’t know how James Cameron made that leap but he did
@@MrMisterDerp Yeah and the smartgun is a mg42 or mg3 not sure wich.
MG42s with snowmobile parts served as the basis for the Smart Guns, so yeah, that already kinda happened. This is just the un-smarted Smart Gun.
@@Chaosrain112The servo arm the M56 smartgun was mounted on was actually a steadycam rig. James Cameron's creativity at it best.
@MrMisterDerp
James Cameron originally intended to use the MP5 as the base for the pulse rifle, his original sketch (which ended up on a T-Shirt that Pvt. Frost is wearing while he loads and checks the squad’s compliment of rifles during their prep for drop) is clearly based around an MP5A3.
They ended up using Thompsons instead due the muzzle flash being more impressive on camera
There was a semi-auto version of this on the civilian market back in the early 80's, until the import ban hit. Super rare now, as they didn't sell too many before the ban due to the QC issues mentioned in this video, as well as being rather pricey for it's time. Looks like a truly forgotten weapon, as I don't even see it come up in a casual internet search.
@@Jason7.62x39 There's a company in the US making copies of the MP40 and FG42, etc. Who knows? They might get around to it. IIRC they also made a MG42, or someone did. All are pretty pricey though. Don't recall the name of the company offhand, I'm more of a black powder cartridge guy these days. Should be an easy search though.
Finally. I was just wondering the other day that the CETME Ameli was so 'rare' it was not even on Forgotten Weapons (until now, that is)
He is right about it getting more impressive as you dive into it, that barrel removal system in particular is very nice, it certainly makes cleaning the barrel a lot easier. He is also right about the need to over-build for the military, there is no profession that puts its hardware through harsher treatment so everything needs to be ridiculously tough.
Ridiculously tough (FN MAG, Browning MGs, etc.), or ridiculously cheap so you can afford to treat them as "limited use disposable" (PPS-43, Sten, M3 Grease Gun, etc.), or ridiculously easy and cheap to replace the likely failure components (NorK Type 73 LMG feed extractor, HK G3 receiver at the depot or brigade armorer level, M16 gas rings, etc.)
Looks like CETME leaned heavily into a #3 design, while Santa Barbara built it as if it was a #2 design. 😂
To paraphrase Mark Novak, nothing can ever be made sailor-proof; things can only be made more or less sailor-resistant at varying levels of cost. The same is true of soldiers. :)
My favorite obscure and mostly overlooked 5.56 belt fed!
Thanks for clearing it up in the title and right away. If anything this is a MG45 scaled down, not a 42.
The technical differences between roller locked and delayed was a mainstay of torturing young german recruits all throughout the cold war with their MG3 and G3 and I think firearm-interested people with an internet connection should finally learn that too!
It's too bad this never took off. The concept is awesome. Its form factor is much smaller than other comparable SAWs like the M249.
Fun fact: a guy in Spain Gad the chance to buy nearly all prototypes and experimental models of CETME and among them some unique accesories for the AMELI (like the 30 round “STANAG” magazine well adaptor).
By the way, he sold them to a Canadian guy. I think the buyer may be from the fire arm blog or some friend, but I’m not sure (because they have an article about the ameli I think if I remember well).
As I recall, when this competed for US Army's SAW contract in 80s, the reason it lost was because of a requirement for the weapon to fire and keep feeding the belt, while a weight was attached to the end of the belt, and this weapon couldn't do it. At the time, many weapons experts were perplexed about that requirement, and frankly, I've never heard a good explanation for it.
My best guess would be to ensure that the gun can feed the belt even in highly adverse conditions, like a long belt dragging in the mud or something like it is partially stuck on some weeds or twigs
But that is speculation on my part
@@andresmartinezramos7513 In that case the gun might pull itself towards the belt instead of the other way round. Seems dangerous. Military requirements seem pretty random at times. In "Ignition! A History of liquid rocket propellants" Clarke says that the -100°F requirement for a working fuel system *might* be because the rocket needs to work in siberia...but propably it's just because it's such a nice round number ^^
IIRC there was a 'para' version of this with a modified barrel lock that allowed the barrel and shroud to fold back over the receiver, making a very compact package. I recall reading (can't remember where: sorry) that law enforcement was concerned about them because terrorists had either got some or tried to get some, and the police didn't relish the idea of coming up against a full-auto 5.56mm with a 200 rounds belt that would fold up into a small suitcase.
A carry handle and no forward assist, I like it.
This thing is dripping with style! A pity it didn’t function better.
Great video.. Can anyone else imagine the look on Ian's face if when he reassembiled the bolt backwards and sent the bolt home just to shear the extactor off of a one of kind limited production gun and is likely impossabile to get replacement part. Imagine haveing to explan that to DSA..
This is the weapon Randall Tex Cobb's character Sailor dismounted from the Vietnamese Huey during the POW camp raid in "Uncommon Valor"
Finally!!! One video describing the history of one of the most controversial Spanish fireweapons of the 80s. I was really waiting for the Ameli.
One of the coolest looking LMG's ever. I've always liked it, because there's a big article with shooting test on it in "The Gun Digest Book Of Assault Weapons" 1986 edition, page 58. Goes into a lot of detail. I've had it since back in the day.
Love getting up and seeing more interesting guns being broken down by gun-jesus, thanks for all you do Ian!
Getting up at 15:19 at the weekend.... the perks of being unemployed.
And when he reassembles it, lo! There are two!
Agreed.
I remember reading the articles about this back in 83 in SoF and Gung-ho
We need a shooting video now. Also, I feel like those plastic "disposable" belt boxes and tabs are now 'keep and reuse' these days... like the Mauser stripper clips and m1 carbine mags. [the amount of time i spent refurbishing barely functional c96 stripper clips to be a solid grip on the one round on both ends but all 10 slide with no effort into gun was long and arduous but worth it]
...or the original 20 round aluminum M16 mags... or the South African polymer Galil mags, etc... 😅
The design was very good, the first units were excellent, the best on the market at the time, but it was decided to sell it with a very aggressive pricing policy, as we say in Spain, "good, nice and cheap", and that thing does not exist...
The result, a Spanish State company that began producing cannons and arquebuses for the armies of King Carlos (the famous "Tercios") in 1511, very shortly after the AMELI debacle, was privatized and sold for next to nothing to General Dynamics... This is Spain
This gun is used by a character called Maestro in Rainbow Six Siege, used to be crazy overpowered
Remember seeing this in Guns and Ammo back in the 80's, thought it was a cool gun then. Now even better to see it taken down and see how it worked. Thanks for a great video
At first it was very good, but like with the CETME L, CETME tried to make it as cheaper as possible to gain as much dough as conceivable. They used very cheap materials and simplified things that shoul not have been simplified, that transform a very capable LMG into a piece of trash that either jams every few bursts, or its bolt retainer breaks and fires the entire belt non stop.
That's very cool looking. I used the FN Minimi back in the day which is about 4lbs heavier. That weight difference would've been pretty noticable.
A not-insignificant amount of that weight difference is the gas system and I'm sure designing the feed way to accommodate box magazine "emergency" feed adds a significant chunk of a pound (it's not just the fairly minor weight of the magwell - you also have to expand the feed way to fit it, which means the rest of it needs more metal too to enclose the volume).
OTOH, for all it's complaints, the M249 is a more durable and reliable weapon, probably due to being build slightly beefier and certainly to a higher standard. Just, forget the crappy box feed option even exists and stick with belts, LOL.
Yeah, I fucking hated the 249.
One of my all-time favorite light MGs... I remember seeing it hyped up back in the 80s and knew some dealer samples made it here before "the great betrayal" in 86. Quite a few years ago, someone made a mod kit you could bolt onto a 10/22 that looked just like it externally. Still mag fed of course, but very cool looking. Some of them should have been in 80s action movies...lol
Man 10/22s have been modded into everything
Ian, Spain sent some of those guns to Ukraine the last year. I read one interview with an officer who said "at first i thought we were in the side of the ukranians, but when i knew that the guns we sent were the Amelis, I knew we supported the russians".
😂 Now *that's* Infantry Humor.
I was thinking: this weird fragile MG would not survive a prolonged use such as around Bakhmut. And now it seems some poor infantry got this meccano as their protection???
@@woutergijs5246, сам"бiдний". Укры знатны своей цiвилизованостью.
@@geodkyt, гумор.
Украм 140 000 рокiв. От них пошла уся розумна людина. Так написано у пiдручниках истории велiчия укронацiïi. А неразумна це москали. сугс. Ты"розумна людина"?
If I recall right, one of the few reasons this didn't take off as well as it could have was the general build quality was hit and miss. Many of the early guns sorta rattled apart because the spot welds and rivets didn't hold. Rivets because of being undersized which allowed some movement and wallowed out the bores. Spot welds because there wasn't enough penetration to get a good weld bond.
Then there was the barrel thing and the difficulty with hot barrel swaps. I think there were also allusions to FN having greased palms better for their m240 and m249.
I think this is a stellar little piece, and if not for certain development issues and other factors. I think it would be a rather bonkers nifty piece if it have been more readily available. Not to mention the passage of the '86 law that barred manufacture of new mg for 'civi' hands, unless you have a type 2 license, but even then your customers are limited.
Lol I literally just saw a vid like 2 weeks ago mentioning this gun is so rare that forgotten weapons hasn’t even made a video on it. And now here we are. Awesome!!
I've been seeing this gun float around my recommendations for a couple of weeks now. It's nice and interesting that Ian has covered it while I'm binging it.
just watched a clip of this gun firing and the comments were talking about how it's so rare Forgotten Weapons doesn't have a video on this; then an hour later I see this.... spooky
Such a cool little gun.
Wow I had a whole bunch of CETME videos appear in my feed past week and BANG now Ian has actually done a video on it. You Tube works in mysterious ways.
one of my favourite LMGs to look at.
Rarely do i find a completely unknown to me, cool MG. This is it, and its GENIUS.
Got to agree there.
Seems like it's fairly well thought out. With some upgrades/modifications (that would probably add a bit of weight) it might be viable today.
I had always wondered whether anyone had created an MG-3 equivalent of the FN Minimi.
"Hans... get the MG-42. The LITTLE MG-42."
Hans? More like Juan.
¡Héctor, trae a Ameli!
Like the SA-80, the AMELI is begging to be brought back, redesigned in a few key areas, and modernized.
Would thank you for the Ameli, not so much SA80....
I found out about this gun about a month ago, I was surprised when I noticed Ian hadn't done a video on one. Now I'm satisfied, that was very interesting. I hope we get a shooting video sometime soon... I'd like to see the fire rate of one of these.
I'd also like to own one, but I don't have a class 3 FFL. I'd settle for a non-firing replica just to hang on my wall next to my non-firing MG-42, but nobody makes one of these like that unfortunately.
Finally a video on this funky little thing.
I believe this machine gun have a lot of MG45 concept ideas.
Finally! There really arent enough vids on this really cool gun❤
Woah, I was waiting for this one until I forgot that I was waiting for this one. I suppose, in my case, this one is truly, A forgotten weapon!
That's actually a really neat weapon... lots of potential problems, and a lot of parts when disassembled, plus that ejector problem... but it is unique, innovative, interesting, even awesome in its approach to design and construction... and it's a good looking weapon as well.
Maybe it's not as trustworthy, but I like it. Maybe you could show us a video of you firing it at the range.
So many cool ideas!
14:03 I was thinking the same but, perhaps, CETME designed the firing pin extension that way because it also contains the half-locking shoulders. Parts wear down at different rates, specially the rollers. Cutting one ejector groove forces you to put the firing pin extension in the same position each time. If it had two grooves, you might face reliability problems in the future. Granted, the rollers on these types of guns are designed to wear down and be replaceable, before needing to replace bolt locking shoulders, bolt head and barrel trunnion.
Three solutions come to mind:
1. Clearly mark the "up" side on the roller wedge. Even just stamping a simple icon on the top like a circle (and preferably something like a circle.slash on the opposite). Least impact to production cost/time or durability, but "signage" is also the least effective, and least preferred, engineering mitigation.
2. Do as Ian suggested. Simple, cheap, no significant increase to production time, but could have durability issues (both the second order wear pattern you mention *and* a potential first order effect of an extra failure point for the part - and FEA wasn't cheap in the 1970s and 1980s to evaluate it beforehand).
3. Add a small, shallow key & keyway so that you can still rotate it far enough to get the bolt out, but you can't fully reassemble it upside down because it won't go the last 1mm or so home. Best solution from.an engineering standpoint, but a non-trivial increase in production time and cost (remember that in addition to requiring more "fiddly bit" machining on two parts, it'll increase your scrap rate on those two parts when the fiddly bits aren't done correctly.)
@@geodkyt Solution number 3 is what HK actually did to their roller-delayed guns (and it's probably the same for the CETME C and L rifles). The locking wedge (or firing pin extension as Ian called it) has a lug on the stem that keyholes into the bolt carrier, thus it can only be inserted in one way, the shoulders can't be reversed.
Fairly rare gun. One might even say it's an AnAMELI lol
Cod ghosts had this thing as the starter MG, never knew it was a reworked MG42 that’s awesome
I'm going to guess those 'magazines' weren't really disposed of and units reused them in training.
Nobody throws mags away as intended.
And I'll bet they were sturdy enough to be used a few dozen times before breaking down.
Be willing to bet that belted blank ammo probably wasn't shipped in these boxes from the factory (much like we always got our blanks for our M16s in 20 round cardboard boxes, not bandoliers full of loaded stripper clips), and troops would stuff used belt boxes with belts of blanks for exercises (much like we kept the "disposable" bandiliers, clips, and clip guides from live firing to load blanks into so we could "train like we fight").
@@geodkytthere were no blanks or firing adapter for these. I suppose you could get blanks in a belt, but using it as a repeater doesn't seem that fun.
Ammo came pre-packaged from the factory with a different loading than the standard rifle rounds, 1 tracer in 5. The ammo boxes came in a cloth pouch, also disposable, since I didn't see many in my time, but a few after they were retired at stores.
I've been researching the Ameli recently, so the timing on this is excellent. They're very tidy little LMGs
I really want to see you take this 1 to the range to see the cyclic rate of it
900 rpm. :)
I saw a video, ages ago, where one of these was assembled from the components fitted in a special briefcase and have wanted one ever since.
I have waited for this video for so many years! Thank you so much for covering this absolute unicorn of an lmg!
Wow the full disassembly was awesome thank you 🙏
I like the design, it looks like a prop from a scif fi film
Ian knows what the boys want while they drink their Saturday morning coffee.
Wish someone could perfect a S/A one! It’s ADORABLE….
This is a great video. Every time I see one like this, I can't help but imagine the amount of effort and time involved in engineering the assembly/disassembly procedure. I feel like doing that takes up as much if not more time than developing the operating system.
remember first seeing this in call of duty ghosts, always thought it looked neat and was a great under rated weapon
That is a very cool LMG, conceptually anyway.
Though it would be impossible to decide which of Ian's videos I would consider my favorite, I can say, without a doubt, this and the HK G-11K2 are closely tied as my favorite weapons he has covered. I'm so glad to finally see a Forgotten Weapons review of this awesome piece!
This thing is just awesome. I'd been hoping this would get covered on the channel someday.
I was waiting for you take a look at this one for a while, there isn't that much content covering this firearm on RUclips, thanks for sharing it!
CoD Ghosts LMG, I loved this one because it was slow but powerful (even though IRL its rate of fire is pretty much the same of a MG42)
Always thought these were cool as hell. First time seeing it disassembled, very neat gun.
It's actually a great idea to have a dedicated MG design with all the features in the 6mm range so that you could run it and feed it like an lmg while taking advantage of the added durability, capacity and features. Some of which are unfortunately quite bad in this case.
Finally! I’ve been waiting on this one such an interesting piece!
I freaking love the look of these so much.
Excellent presentation. A shame it wasn’t more widely adopted, that would have pushed SB into improving this otherwise excellent product.
Wow Ian, I found this particularly interesting. An open bolt, roller delayed machine gun? Sounds like a gunworld unicorn. I would love to see you fire that.
Thanks, I've been waiting for this one for years.
It is impossible not to love your analysis Ian, always extremely well documented and sensible, therefore very accurate in my opinion. Thousand thanks for your videos!
Such a genius design. Hats off to Spanish enginuity and the giga Chad that made this happen
From what I've read the ameli's operating system is based on the ill-fated MG45
I love when my current gun obsession gets a video
Honestly, if they made these in semi auto id buy one. These look neat
I wonder if any part kits for this gun will ever be available? I love to have one even if it has to be semi-auto only.
Interestingly enough it was replaced by the fitting spiritual successor, the H&K MG4 (also a light 5.56 machine gun)
The Big Alejandro was my favorite lmg in the division
So then it got more in common with the MG 45, a material saving and simplified version of the MG 42. The MG 45 was roller-delayed, the MG 42 roller-locked. Not fielded in significant numbers.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_45
That the safety can only be engaged when the gun cocked is identical to the MG3 and the MG 42.
this is a very nice looking gun. i can see collectors going nuts over these. a semi auto version would sell really well in the states im sure.
Ian your content is always amazing
This was in one of the Call of Duty's a few years ago. I didn't even know it was a real LMG. I thought it was created for the game lol
Really cool looking gun
I would really like to see someone try this again with better qc and possible some modernization like rails and mlock
Yes, that would be quite cool.
I loved its aesthetics in COD Cold War.
There are very few modernish machine guns I would call beautiful. This is beautiful.
Its also in cod ghosts, I thought the one in cold war was a mg3
One of the coolest guns I didn't know existed
Yes,,hell yes,,my favorite lmg that humanity has ever produced..