We went from self defense to playing tag, my dojo is trying to bring back real shotokan....I enjoy the tag players at tournaments they make for good punching bags
@@TKDLION That's true. I remember back in the '80s what is now called WKF was called WUKO and that was real karate. This WKF today is exactly what Taekwondo became.
Here's what happened to karate. Very few people could make their living teaching martial arts, most schools had 12-15 students. They trained daily, long hard workouts, made tough fighters and good martial artists. Average ages were men between 19-26. Then June 22nd 1984 happened which changed the face of karate forever. That's when the karate kid movie came out. Karate went mainstream. Class sizes went from a few students to dozens. Now karate schools became profitable, but the average ages dropped too, 14-19. From that point on, it was a steady downward cycle to the decline of karate. More friendly sparring, less intense workouts, training less frequently, standards of rank advancement lowered, but tons of money to be made.
Little ninjas/samurais,re-breakable boards , more belts added , after school babysitting with karate school bus , 6 year old black belts & no sparing or maybe tag sparing with little to no contact
standards of rank advancement lowered, but tons of money to be made. I feel that anxiety, even though I just want to practice in karate school and my practice gets credibility but I can't get it for a little money
You know, that’s an excellent explanation, because we had students from other money making dojos wanting to join our dojo, but once they notice how intense our training was, we never saw them again.
Actually the Boom from movies, in the US especially, came from Bruce Lee in the ‘Green Hornet’ and closely followed by his movies. The key word here is US. Then more came from the TV series ‘Kung Fu’… I started in ‘67 in one of Chuck Norris’s schools, which didn’t have all the fancy equipment adorning walls. Simply, a hardwood floor and heavy bag. Between the conditioning, workouts and sparring you left for home for ‘a good shower’ on your mind. There was no fans, AC or ‘drinking fountain’ to turn to, either. I found the Isshin Ryu conditions similar, except we did have water from small bathroom-sink faucet. Fancy Gi with a half-dozen patches came many years later. Train hard, hit hard. How I miss those times…
@@tevman69 "AcTuAlLy" everyone owning karate schools during that time will confirm. While Bruce Lee movies did create a spike in training from men ages 19-26, the karate kid is what spiked the internet in kids doing martial arts. Really I shouldn't even have to explain why, a story of an outcast teenager learns how to deal with his bullies and gets the girl all by learning karate, was the reason of the spike of interest in karate and what drove up student attendance in karate. Pretty much from then on, karate became directly marketed towards kids and became big business
In our dojo, we pressured tested all of it. Some of us were already good street fighters , wrestle in High School, and boxing for the PAL, so when Shotokan came to our neighborhood it just made our techniques even better. Can you say Ashihara🤜🏽
As a former Californian now living in Texas can you elaborate on that? Cause California for decades was known for having the best fighters till NY and other states started catching up. I can only name a handful of Texas (Steen, Burlson, Allen, Kurban, Denley) fighters. There was Harold Gross, but he moved to California and became a student under Chuck Norris & Pat Johnson where he achieved his success.
@@barrettokarate It's the same tired argument of "don't California my Texas". The kind of liars who claim that Texans pay no taxes while conveniently neglecting to mention their property taxes and have no problem with bringing in educated Californians to pay all the taxes since small business owners won't.
I wasn't sure at first if I could listen to all of this, but I'm glad I decided to stick it out and hear the whole thing. I studied Shore-Kan goju-ryu back in the 70s. I would add two things that have contributed to the detriment of karate: 1. Teachers are almost always under pressure to make the dojo work financially, often working another job during the day, and 2. Kids these days are "microwave-oriented," that is, they are not taught patience and perseverance, and they need frequent gratification for their minor accomplishments. For example, the addition of several intermediate rank belts (which also typically provides additional cash flow). Kids who don't get enough "strokes" tend to lose interest and drop out.
Good points. I think also that back then in Okinawa, learning karate was a privilege. Students would be very serious about their training and teachers would be more selective about which students they accept. Nowadays in dojos, I see more children and elderly than I see young adults willing to be pressure tested. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing that karate tries to be a self-improvement focused martial art for everybody, but it also has consequences.
if i remember correctly, you had to have a letter of recommendation from a high ranking sensei. so yeah, they took their karate seriously, and didn't want any average joe learning it.
We just need to popularize Motobu-ryu. From what I've heard and read, it had very little kata that Choki run out of things to teach after 6 months, the rest were just sparring.
then why not go to MMA...not katas, no bunkai, no kihon..just plain fighting..if that's what you want to do. if you want art - pick any..they are all the same..like ballet.
@@CorporaMedicina I think that there is some attraction in discovering techniques in kata. Furthermore, kata is so missundertood and badly practicised that there is difficult to find good instructors or knowledge. People doesn't understand it. Kata is as good to fight as mnemotechnique is to learn. It's useful to improve if you know the meaning. Kata is a good way of learning if you know what is in it. There could be MMA kata, boxing kata, climbing kata, tennis kata, but there is no knowledge or vision. Indeed, sport karate kata is an offense to karate... But I don't want to be boring hahaha it is enough
Well stated. I totally agree, and it's easy to become disheartened, discouraged, etc. This topic is something I've obsessed about since I started training. My school is Wado Ki Kai, which is a hodgepodge of various styles. Unfortunately, the founder died in early 90s, and the little bunkai that's revealed is never pressure tested. Not to mention that most of the instructors can't do it successfully anyways. Instead of pressure testing drills, etc, it's emphasis is learning the "art" of karate, and in addition you will pick up some self defense along the way. When you are new, most people's understanding is so vague that you don't realize all this until years later, and by then you certainly don't want to give up, having ao much time invested. I will say, I do love the art aspect, and this has absolutely changed my life for the better...but how can one truly appreciate the kata, and art if the jutsu is missing? But, as you say and I agree, there's still hope, and I won't give up. Bjj or mma just might be necessary...to me, those are the only tried and true method's...there has to be a middle ground in you training, where you don't go from the slow to fast lane of self defense. Yiu should know how to control someone, with some type of grappling...a backfist to the face or kick, etc shoul not be your only go to in a self defense situation. That's unreasonable. Also, you are right about the punching, with guard down, and hand out...yiu are basically drilling bad habits which have no place in self defense. And point sparring, although better than nothing, is still sub-par...it also doesn't at all relate to kata. Then there's visualization in the kata, to prevent it from being a dance. The worst part is 99% of karate schools try to explain away this stuff, as though you shouldn't be worrying about that, or you need to practice your kata, for example. I do love the forms for the many physical benefits, but it really is up to you if you really want to learn real karate...it takes much more than just showing up to a karate class 2 -3 times a week. You must seek out additional training, and accept the limitations of the type of karate that's usually taught. In all actuality, real violence is scary shit, and common sense will keep you away from ever having to get physical...and then it's up to pure chance. It would be nice to know that I'm not wasting my time though too. All of this and more is in another comment in another video though...this is just the nuts and bolts. 😉
as someone with an extensive history of concussions but an interest in martial arts...I'm wondering how this kind of stuff can applied safely for everyday people who want to learn martial arts in an effective way but without completely beating themselves up. Seems tricky as those adaptations you mention were potentially a response to that as well
Ian Abernathy just reached hard to save Karate. Instead of trying to "Weekend of Bernie's" Karate let's follow the real path of Karate. Learn from outside and bring back what works. And let's train hard in small groups so the techniques don't get watered down.
Ush, I'm Kashar Selema Sensei, Of Tazadaq Dojo Assidean Gabar Kahan Goju jitsu Kan Karate do Association #USA Goju Organization. Great commentary I'm 58 an Martial Arts has changed over the years. I started in 1977 in Northern Kung Fu, I training in Kuk Sool Won as well. I've been doing Goju since 95. And I like the realism of it. I Incorporated kuk Sool joint locking in the syllabus. And strenght training, or old school training, as we called it back in the day. This seems to work for me
Pressure testing....never imagine that i would hear people mention something which is a natural part of karate. Many dojo are watered down, i go lucky to be part of a wado ryu dojo who is from the main lineage of hironori otsuka and i can telle you its not the art who is watered down but the people who practices it. Instead of raising the level...many are decreasing it to suit there level and those same people teaches other.Shame only a few genuine dojo left around the world
Only karate outside of major cities suck. NYC has few Mc Dojo’s. Most dojo’s are cheap child care alternatives were children are promoted to boost self esteem and profits. Finally most Black belts in America simply don’t know how to throw combinations. Most people want black belt status rather than black belt skill.
Your research is pretty darn accurate from what I was taught, I like the part about Itosu, but what karateka historians do not consider, prior to 1879 when Japan took over the Ryukyu Kingdom and wiping out most of the Hoken Culture, the Japanese asked for the Ryukyuans to give them their karate, one might consider they might have kept the 'good' techniques for themselves and in turn watering down the system
Eh...maybe. But a whole lot of Okinawan karate adepts passed away during and just following World War II. Probably a lot of the non-middle school karate went the way of the dodo with that, too.
I am a blackbelt under Gosei Yamaguchi and agree with many of your points on pressure testing etc. and the disconnect in many modern Karate training. In the Goju Kai curriculm, protective gear is not allowed as this provides a false sense of security and detachment for reality based sparring.
I think the blame lies with Funakoshi and Japanese preferences in the 1920s. In his book, he said that Karate must change to reach the average person, so they can gain the advantages it offers for personal development. It uses the physical to improve the spirit, and this combined the introduction of Savate and other European arts during a time when it seemed more interesting than Okinawan styles, which also had a strong Chinese influence during a time when nationalism was causing disdain for any Asian arts that may compete with Japanese sensibilities. I think that European arts were acceptable because they were not only exotic and seemingly useful and fun and at the time, not a future enemy. The history is very muddied and ambiguous, mostly due to national pride and sometimes obscured actively to promote a style. The 'history' of my own art, Tang Soo Do, is littered with misleading and sometimes blatantly false origin stories. The idea is that Hwang Kee hopped the Great Wall during the '30s to avoid Japanese persecution and came back with his very own style that was based on Chinese- Tang Soo- rather than those dastardly Japanese styles that obliterated Korean culture. It was supposedly based on ancient Korean temple documents. Even the name Tang Soo Do is a reference to Chinese influence, not Japanese. So where did it come from? Shotokan. Won Kuk Lee was one of the few- maybe the only- student of Funakoshi and he brought the name Tang Soo Do with him to Korea. Why? Because the old kanji for Karate translated as Tang, or China hand, something the Japanese wouldn't appreciate, so it was altered to mean empty hand. Hwang Kee took the name Tang Soo Do from Won Kuk Lee, and the first few katas, identical to Shotokan. But where do the kicks come from? There were no flashy, high kicks in any Okinawan styles. Oddly, it came from Le Boxe Francaise- Savate. When Japan was industrializing, European training was the rage and French instructors taught a mixture of Savate and Prussian military conditioning. Add that to a shopping list, and you have a buffet of stuff that I think Funakoshi's son introduced. So imagine my surprise when my ancient Korean style was actually created in the 1920s. The only Asian influence is the probable Oriental influence on Savate, and that is either imported from Asia to Marseille, or an option created earlier when it was no longer legal to carry swords, so the feet were used as in fencing- Savate was the shoe fencers used. It gives you a headache just trying to figure what is what! It puzzled me until I realized that just because a teacher could fight or perform the techniques well did not make him a historian or even honest about his art. And he needs students to keep open, and if he can't be successful how can he impart his skill to you? The best I can come up with is to train like it matters whatever you do. Learn the technical but develop a discerning mind, and after you have a grip on the mechanics of it, research, learn and grow- as we are dong here.
I’m glad you referenced Iain Abernathy. His writings gave me cause to take a closer look at my kata and what I thought was practical bunkai. Good video. Top shelf stuff. Keep it coming.
I think it depends on the instructor . I was lucky , in different moments of my life I practice shotokan ,shito ryu and tae kwon do . All my instructors were friendly , they would walk in the middle of the students and give one on one interaction and sparing was daily , but they thought kata was for children to learn proper technic and for old people
I do Goju Ryu, and its consider a very combative style of Karate, not so much as sports one. But, it doesnt matter how many tools you have in your toolbox if you dont know how to use them. We need to put some serious time in training and using all the techniques Karate have to offer, drill them with progressive resistant training, adopting training methods and techniques from other styles, etc.
I must agree with the one gentleman said. Years ago, karate was taught to men, between 18 to 30 years old. Classes were small, training was tough and hard, but produced good fighters. Now it’s mainly children, 5 to 15 yr olds. Most of them go because their friends go, and it’s like an after school baby sitting program, not teaching the real karate. They are belt factories, pay dues, show up for class and every four or five months, you get promoted to the next belt. Used to be 5 to 7 years to get a black belt, now we have 12 yr olds with black belts. But money is being made, and no one cares about the real martial art anymore . To me, it’s sad!
It's the business of martial arts instruction. Capitalism at its best. Karate was invented for real combat against armed and unarmed opponents. The katas reveal this. I had been learning Shotokan karate for the last 50 years. The training in the early years was uncompromising and sometimes brutal. You have senpais walking around and 'testing' your stance by sweeping your leg from under you to make sure that it holds. I remember the sickening sound of flesh hitting the concrete floor when a student fell on it. I saw a video where the presenter mentioned that people walked on your belly as part of the training. Yep. You lined up laying down on the floor and the instructor and senpais walked on all the students' bellies. Makiwara practice was not optional. No blackbelts before 18 years old. In tournaments, you wipe the blood from your face and continue. Nowadays, contestants are disqualified when that happens. On the other hand, the conditions that necessitated all that training are no longer around. I don't have to defend myself against other people daily. I practice karate as a self-defense against physical and mental illness. My weapons are humility and hard unfeeling knuckles (I still hit hard stuff with them). I live by one of Funakoshi Gichin's precepts: 'Do not think of winning. Think, rather, of not losing.'
As a 23 year old looking to start, I find it very frustrating trying to find a legit dojo with intense smoke sessions and actual training. The only dojos with karate around my area Taylor to kids maybe teens but they do not offer adult karate. All they offer for adults is BJJ and Kickboxing
Also Katsunori Kikuno was a known to apply only Karate in his fights. His only backgrounds are Kyokushin Karate and Judo. But he then mixed Okinawan Karate and that’s all he has. He has gained a win/loss ratio of 28 to 6. He has no boxing, muay thai, BJJ or Wrestling training at all. Just Okinawan, Kyokushin and Judo. He literally even shows how Okinawan Karate can easily contend with boxing, muay thai and more.
I actually watch Kikuno Sensei's matches and have used some of his DARE TSUYO Dojo videos for training ideas. He's among what I would call the 5% of karate that works.
@@GojuRyuPhilosopher I think saying 'only %5 of karate works' needs to be qualified. If you mean 'only %5 of Karate practitioners can fight' then perhaps I can agree. But from the outside looking in, Shito Ryu, Kyokushin, and even Shotokan will all put you head and shoulders above someone that doesn't fight at all. I've seen every kick Karate teaches used in an MMA ring aside from the hurricane kick - but I have seen it applied in Kyokushin matches to devastating effect. Their foot work and distance control is solid, punching game maybe a touch weak but how hard is that to improve really? That's a serious question, how hard would it be to improve that portion of striking (even if one needs to step outside the box a little)? Add in Judo and/or Jiu Jitsu and I'd ask what more you need to go toe to toe with just about anyone?
Hey "Goju Phil" nice video. And true. I believe a lot of it has to do with protection equipment being used. When I started back in the 1960's there was none. Not even a cup. They were to wide and you couldn't kick if you wore one. But Karate started to get watered down back when Itosu Anko started to teach in public schools. It had to be watered down for the kids. Funakoshi then took that watering down to a whole new level. Look at TKD. All based on Gen. Choi Hong Hi's nidan. A watered down nidan. I trained in "Old Chito Ryu" Not the stuff taught today. Very, Very big difference. We trained and threw each other on a wooden floor. No mats. Knuckle push ups on the wooden floor, no mats. What they do now compared to back in the day is just insanity! Back in the day, you had to be a "Man" to get a black belt. It meant much, much more then than it does today.
Hey can you make a super cut of every Karate master or founder who said karatekas should also do Judo or wrestling so I can use that video to convince more karatekas to branch out. Not because your wandering or bored but because our founders told us to. Thank you
Um... Kyokushin Karate is still legit and hardly any of them are Mcdojo or unless. Which maybe why it’s the most practiced. I will admit the sports rules sucks but the style’s hard sparring and pressure testing is there.
@@Shadowrulzalways ah..yes..the self-defense training..or as I know it "IF-THEN" martial art. if he does that then you do that...as real as it gets I tell ya..
Just a small information. The name "Azato Yasutsune", one of two masters of Funakoshi, is for the same person as "Asato Anko". and In okinawa, we call his name "Asato Anko". I enjoyed your explanation very much, thank you!!
If you train under a sanctioned organization like JKA, ISKF, SKIF, you will be learning real karate. It's when you end up in some McDojo which is about making money that you end up in trouble. It's important that you pick a dojo which is part of a bonafide organization.
Because people don't want quality or standards. Just think back to any parent who's more interested in their kid getting the belt...did they really care if the kid earned it?
most north americans just don't want to take the time and years to follow real traditional karate. that's what it comes down to -- the time and discipline.
Consider a simple inward block followed by an opposite had reverse punch. The idea is to block the opponent's punch and then punch back with the opposite hand. White Belt stuff. But in the Karate-Jutsu I was taught in the 70's, that inward block is, in actual combat, considered and inward hammer-fist strike to the jaw, temple, side of the neck (crushing the carotid artery), as your forearms clears away an opponent's guard, followed by a horizontal elbow strike, reverse elbow strike, (going back the opposite direction) morphing into a side hammer fist, all with that same arm, BEFORE the opposite side hand reverse punch is thrown. The High Block is used to block a punch to the face. The fact is however, that many boxers can tag a person once or twice before that block is even completed. In combat, it is an upward forearm strike, under an opponent's jaw that violently snaps his head back, when he's in your face. It's a sneaky forearm strike that comes up from below. While the hand is there, it turns into a tiger claw that rips eyes out, or grabs the hair, the lips or the ears and tears them apart; THEN the reverse punch is thrown. So, the issue how Karate is taught and interpreted that makes it effective/ineffective in a street fight. In the ring it's almost, but not quite, useless.
I like where you went; it rings true with my thoughts for many years now. I have been known to say, if your kata cant deal with the most basic or realistic attacks (left collar grab with right cross, or right cross and left body...), than you're doing it wrong. I also like the old adage, "there are no blocks in karate", because in essence, there are no blocks in kata; imho, they are strikes, throws, imbalancing techniques, or... simply taking an opponents attacking weapon and using to your own advantage. yes there are blocks, but when you hear so many techniques called blocks, the adage of no blocks in karate starts to make sense as a clue. In the end, karate is, and should be taught as, a study in brutality. Watch Kentucky Fried Movie, get past the the teenage pubescence humor, (still a funny movie), and listen to one phrase repeated by the star of the satorization of 'enter the dragon'... "What was that? This is not a charade. We need total concentration." Unfortunately, he was close enough to strike a nerve, but no one was listening. Karate is not a charade, but a lot of what is being taught seems to be just that, without any fault of their own. (also, i always wondered why the 'masters of the past could train within many styles, then teach what they learned even though it was different from what their primary teacher taught, but challenging or interpreting differently todays instructors would be seen as blasphemy. I have been lucky; for 20+ years i have learned and studied at one dojo, but my sensei and sempai have generally let me wander and play with my karate. begrudgingly to begin with i'm sure, but eventually leaving me to my own devices. seminars and other gatherings have brought different insights, and have molded by thinking. And my thinking changes as time goes on, even today. And yah, i much prefer working with a few students when i'm 'teaching'. large group classes are fine for learning basic techniques and conditioning the body. But i loved teaching a late class when i could, because only a few students would attend; those that wanted to explore. we called it a laboratory instead of a class, because we studied, played, tested, changed, and repeated. And yah, lots of two person drills with no hanging attacks. and using kata as a base procedure much of the time! (its 2 years old but good video; covid produced a lot of time for discussion...)
My style is based on Shotokan. But now that there is so much access to information, i'm open to incorporate elements of other styles (only those elements which I can understand, my studies in movement sciences also give me a hand with this). I would say that shotokan (because of all the reasons you pointed out) wont do that good in the streets. Allthough, I do believe that Shotokan has developed a methodology that works on improving not just mobility (mostly hip mobility), but also how to use that mobility to generate power with your legs against the ground in the most efficient way. I know most self defense scenarios are in close range, but if you study and understand the kata bunkai (and not just do the kata as a simple secuence of motions) you can incorporate that power against the ground in to your set of tools and be more complete.
Your “blocks “ are strikes. Bunkai is deep, and one motion can be used differently depending whatever’s happening. I remember in Lai Tung Pai Kung Fu we’d learn a Taolu and then we’d “spar”, basically we’d get kicked and punched at while we were trying to use technical movements of the form. If we got it wrong, we were corrected and made to get semi beaten up again lol. It’s awesome to hear Karate had a similar practice back in the day.
What state are you in? You have very interesting topics I love listening to. I’m not as much of a Goju Ryu practitioner as I used to be. But recently I’ve decided to start Kata daily as a New Years resolution. Probably just koryu Kata.
For a lot of people, karate is more of a life art than a fighting art. Are they deluding themselves? Maybe. But if it works for them and adds something to their lives, then good enough. It's not always about fighting.
People are just not like the old days. I train Shorinji-ryu(karate jutsu), kyokushin, traditional shaolin, yi Quan, and lots of wrestling theories japanese and other wise. It was rare even 20 years ago to find someone who was gonna keep training. I been at it 20 years and i do feel like stopping anytime soon.
He ain't lying. 39 years Matsubayash Ryu. Perfect lineage. Yes I teach ALL kata etc but I go further with my teaching of tuide and stand up fighting that utilizes several bits and pieces from a few styles so basically I teach traditional kata but an evolved system of fighting because most Maysubayashi schools offer no kumite other than our 2 man yakasoku drills.
I've used both traditional and sporting karate effectively in self defence, I'm of the opinion that martial art's which are also sports are way more effective then those that aren't, You should train both your traditional and sporting karate to be as strong as possible, 2nd Dan in wado ryu karate jutsu!
back in the bare knuckle knock down days it meant something. my instructor once remarked "the world is full of brown belts." it was a life challenge to achieve black belt and very few people cut it. the invention and adoption of safety gear changed everything and gave way to the profiteering rise of McDojos everywhere
I think people are too focused on sport karate that is nice for speed, but karate was suppose to be about making your body like a weapon. People lose the toughness and conditioning that would take trying to make karate marketable and people pleasing.
Well technically its not rank. Thats the problem too many westerners calling it "rank" its grade. So to say karate shouldn't have belts is like saying schools shouldn't have grades
@@sliderx1897 Rank/grade. Either way there are many Karate teachers that did not went through the discipline and purchased a rank certificate. And now they are teaching without any knowledge. When Karate was being practice in secret there was no rank, Karate men where respected base on their Character, not a piece of cloth. Karate belts came later.
@@pedrorodriguez9812 so should all children regardless of age and skill level learn the same material at the same time in school? Should they not have grades? Cuz back in the caveman days there were no schools and people learned by painting on walls. So are you saying nothing should ever evolve? If karate stayed being practiced in secret we wouldbt be having this conversation because it never would have made it to the west.
@@sliderx1897 Simple: There is no rank/grade system in MMA. Unqualified Karate teachers are giving there students a false sense of security, they are selling fantasy and the so called rank/grade system is used in an unethical way. I started in Traditional Karate in 1975 and things were very different, to earn a bkack belt was so difficult.
@@pedrorodriguez9812 i agree. But thays the way it is. Its up to us real black belts to uphold the standard. Its no different than these ivy league schools selling admission to celebrities kids. Somebody F*cked up, not the entire educational system.
Most people don't belong in a Karate class. If they don't have the survival instinct to learn from getting beat up by a bully then a Karate class shouldn't be an inviting place for them to learn to defend themselves.
Sometimes popular 'teachers' of an art don't really know much about their art - but are excellent, business-wise at running their respective schools - while some very excellent & knowledgeable practitioners of martial arts aren't very popular at all (if they even teach at all, because they're not necessarily good businessmen; & good businessman or not, some just keep to themselves). I've met some excellent martial artists who couldn't keep enough students to afford a storefront - & other excellent martial artists who couldn't keep their storefront studios (& many of these excellent martial artists - if they teach at all - teach at their homes or in parks, or, on occassion may share a storefront space - because it's all they can afford to do). To help you discover how to use Karate for self-defense, study the movements & applications of Chinese Xing Yi Quan (Hsing-I Chuan) - but don't waste any time, as in 2014 this martial art was adopted into Wushu (which changes martial arts for Wushu Competition - which emphasises form over function, & often even changes form &/or adapts a newly-made form for uniform competition purposes: so folk spend their time practicing a competition form without any specific regard to function, which in time could hurt the art). Fortunately still in existance are all-style, free-style, full-contact competitions where well-trained Xing Yi Quan practitioners have done well in (in the past - when they've entered, that is); so this art is viable under pressure (if taught & learned well, of course). Fairly-decent proficiency in this art can be had usually within a year of practice (even far less time if one has plenty of time to devote to a lot of focused practice each day). Caveat: Xing Yi Quan applications tend to be quite brutal - like Karate applications used to be.
I see a common mistake in that conclusion. Itosu, Motobu created karate based upon Te (Ryu-Te, Ryukyu-Te, Bushi-No-Te ...). The Te was Okinawan version of jiu-jitsu with added Chinese methods (kata) and more pressure on hits in the XIX century. The Te is not Karate. They are two different martial arts. Unfortunately due to political reasons Okinawan masters neglect JJ as a source of karate. Obviously, it is not related to Goju-ryu and Isshin -ryu as schools incorporated directly from China with small changes.
It's not class size, it's the family dojo problem and lack of serious training. Everyone needs a belt or stripe every 3 months or they cry or quit. Also, economics. Without money, the dojo doesn't survive. In the 90s I trained with a dojo full of ass kickers. Blood, sweat and broken bones on a regular basis. Loved it
My Karate style is based on Kyokushin but we allow head shots and we have always cross trained with Judo and Jujitsu. A lot of hard sparring. I agree most schools are crap, probably 90%.
point sparring ruined the martial art. little schools in the US offer actual karate training. there is only sport karate schools whose main goal is to win in a point sparring tournament. using this type of karate would not help in reality. jumping and turning into superman is one of the worst things to do on the street.
Plus there are way more karate men in top flight mma then that I don't even watch it much and can rattle off chuck lidel, George Saint piere, baz ruten, Robert whitteker, lytto, machida, wonder boy Thompson,Raymond Daniels, Dan hooker!
I think we should spend less time talking and researching history and more time testing what we already know. I firmly believe answers will present themselves if we keep practicing and sparring. I find it ironic that the response to Karate's alleged inefectivness are these long analysis, (not to impugn your work, sir), but I think we should focus on learning more from what we know and from practical cross examination. I agree that comparing karate with MMA is good for getting info, I don't think it is an accurate assessment of how effective it currently is. The reason is that karate is not taught today as a means to create professional fighters, it focuses on teaching John Doe techniques to defend from another John Doe. Let's be realistic, the average John Doe is NOT an MMA fighter and is not an experienced fighter either. Cases can be made for virtually any martial art to be effective and ineffective in certain scenarios.
well here is my hypothesis: in real fight all martial arts look the same and they come down to: Kickboxing, Wrestling and BJJ. Don't matter how long you practice your kata at the end..when you fight for real you will not use any of these techniques. However if you are a martial art instructor you got to eat and put bread on table. How do you get students: 1. Be warrior and a champion- show your belts and trophies on the wall-hard, painful and expensive life, also no guarantee that you will be a champion. 2. Be a student of a champion - that is expensive ..very expensive...so your initial investment will be high. 3. Become instructor but make other people suffer..make their life hard and panful and expensive just claim that you teach "the old ways" of Okinawa.. 4. Become "expert" in kata = become an artist..but not a fighter (Rika Usami). 5. Have a circus act: bend irons with your teeth, break bricks with your fists, or perform feats of strengths and high jumps, high kicks (shaolin monks..they have to eat too) 6. Invent your own martial art, with your own techniques and katas (Jeet Kwon Do - Bruce Lee) - actually most people go that way. That's why we have so many different styles of karate..
It depends how you train. Train like Yahara Sensei and it will work in self defence. You also have to train on bags and makawara. So your power is therr. Hiting the air is not effective. The old Shotokan style always did makawara training daily. Plus heavy bags. Side kicks to a heavy bag builds power. Shotokan was not made for fighting in the ring. It was for a quick self defence one strike one kill. Its not about fighting like the UFC. It does work in its place.
makiwara training is mandatory in okinawan karate. they also use other apparatus for conditioning that you won't see anywhere else in the world -- the old style
Point fighting when done by intelligent fighters develop fighters who are the very best feet and legs fighters in the world. Tyrone Spong and Stephen Thompson to name two great were point fighters.
First time I’ve visited your channel, couple of suggestions: take a breath, slow down. The content is good but to be honest I must of missed half of it because you speak so quickly I feel like I’ve been hit by a train. Peace out.
Unfortunately you are right. I'm a BJJ practitioner and see it happening around the country. Americans don't like the slow progress and countless hours of live rolling. They would rather have an attendance blue print for their next belt
There have always been good martial artists and bad ones. But this video is strange. It's almost like Napoleon Dynamite made this video. ...... Understand this easy thing - The world and everything else EVOLVED. Many styles and arts, (while trying to hold on to memories of the past) did NOT. Of course we should always hold on to the traditions of etiquette and understanding, but the physical nature of all humans evolves. I don't understand why this isn't obvious. People that can fight fight. They have no problem passing on their legacies.
Back in the day, Shotokan practitioners that I knew were strong and formidable. Now it's a game of tag, like WTF TKD.
WTF practitioners used to be strong and formidable before TKD became part of the Olympics. Most of the martial arts have become soft.
@@TKDLION I agree! I knew one man who was in the Olympics several years ago and he was quite good.
We went from self defense to playing tag, my dojo is trying to bring back real shotokan....I enjoy the tag players at tournaments they make for good punching bags
@@DoomGuy-kf8fv I was raised in the 1980s to 1990s power era of Tae Kwon Do. I agree about tag players being good targets.
@@TKDLION That's true. I remember back in the '80s what is now called WKF was called WUKO and that was real karate. This WKF today is exactly what Taekwondo became.
Here's what happened to karate. Very few people could make their living teaching martial arts, most schools had 12-15 students. They trained daily, long hard workouts, made tough fighters and good martial artists. Average ages were men between 19-26. Then June 22nd 1984 happened which changed the face of karate forever. That's when the karate kid movie came out. Karate went mainstream. Class sizes went from a few students to dozens. Now karate schools became profitable, but the average ages dropped too, 14-19. From that point on, it was a steady downward cycle to the decline of karate. More friendly sparring, less intense workouts, training less frequently, standards of rank advancement lowered, but tons of money to be made.
Little ninjas/samurais,re-breakable boards , more belts added , after school babysitting with karate school bus , 6 year old black belts & no sparing or maybe tag sparing with little to no contact
standards of rank advancement lowered, but tons of money to be made. I feel that anxiety, even though I just want to practice in karate school and my practice gets credibility but I can't get it for a little money
You know, that’s an excellent explanation, because we had students from other money making dojos wanting to join our dojo, but once they notice how intense our training was, we never saw them again.
Actually the Boom from movies, in the US especially, came from Bruce Lee in the ‘Green Hornet’ and closely followed by his movies. The key word here is US. Then more came from the TV series ‘Kung Fu’… I started in ‘67 in one of Chuck Norris’s schools, which didn’t have all the fancy equipment adorning walls. Simply, a hardwood floor and heavy bag. Between the conditioning, workouts and sparring you left for home for ‘a good shower’ on your mind. There was no fans, AC or ‘drinking fountain’ to turn to, either. I found the Isshin Ryu conditions similar, except we did have water from small bathroom-sink faucet. Fancy Gi with a half-dozen patches came many years later. Train hard, hit hard. How I miss those times…
@@tevman69 "AcTuAlLy" everyone owning karate schools during that time will confirm. While Bruce Lee movies did create a spike in training from men ages 19-26, the karate kid is what spiked the internet in kids doing martial arts. Really I shouldn't even have to explain why, a story of an outcast teenager learns how to deal with his bullies and gets the girl all by learning karate, was the reason of the spike of interest in karate and what drove up student attendance in karate. Pretty much from then on, karate became directly marketed towards kids and became big business
In our dojo, we pressured tested all of it. Some of us were already good street fighters , wrestle in High School, and boxing for the PAL, so when Shotokan came to our neighborhood it just made our techniques even better. Can you say Ashihara🤜🏽
My sensei grew up doing tournaments in Texas. He said a point in Texas was first degree murder in California.
As a former Californian now living in Texas can you elaborate on that? Cause California for decades was known for having the best fighters till NY and other states started catching up. I can only name a handful of Texas (Steen, Burlson, Allen, Kurban, Denley) fighters. There was Harold Gross, but he moved to California and became a student under Chuck Norris & Pat Johnson where he achieved his success.
WOW... How could the Okinawan Masters get along without UUUUUUU?????
@@barrettokarate It's the same tired argument of "don't California my Texas". The kind of liars who claim that Texans pay no taxes while conveniently neglecting to mention their property taxes and have no problem with bringing in educated Californians to pay all the taxes since small business owners won't.
I wasn't sure at first if I could listen to all of this, but I'm glad I decided to stick it out and hear the whole thing. I studied Shore-Kan goju-ryu back in the 70s. I would add two things that have contributed to the detriment of karate: 1. Teachers are almost always under pressure to make the dojo work financially, often working another job during the day, and 2. Kids these days are "microwave-oriented," that is, they are not taught patience and perseverance, and they need frequent gratification for their minor accomplishments. For example, the addition of several intermediate rank belts (which also typically provides additional cash flow). Kids who don't get enough "strokes" tend to lose interest and drop out.
Good points. I think also that back then in Okinawa, learning karate was a privilege. Students would be very serious about their training and teachers would be more selective about which students they accept.
Nowadays in dojos, I see more children and elderly than I see young adults willing to be pressure tested. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing that karate tries to be a self-improvement focused martial art for everybody, but it also has consequences.
if i remember correctly, you had to have a letter of recommendation from a high ranking sensei. so yeah, they took their karate seriously, and didn't want any average joe learning it.
my style of karate has grappling, pressure testing and is full contact with rules similar to MMA
Kyokushin Karate used to have that during it’s early run
Okay, what is it?
@@Cheeseisboss Probably kudo.
@@ilgenis kudo's cool, would like to see a bit more judo in it though
The Thing is, I know all of this and this still makes me sad...
We just need to popularize Motobu-ryu. From what I've heard and read, it had very little kata that Choki run out of things to teach after 6 months, the rest were just sparring.
Choki only used one Kata. A handful of moves, and a looot of sparring.
@@kuuryotwo5153 kinda wanted to buy his books, but i cant really afford it in my current situation.
then why not go to MMA...not katas, no bunkai, no kihon..just plain fighting..if that's what you want to do. if you want art - pick any..they are all the same..like ballet.
And in Okinawan, Motobu choki still lose to his brother who train with 5 kata.
@@CorporaMedicina I think that there is some attraction in discovering techniques in kata. Furthermore, kata is so missundertood and badly practicised that there is difficult to find good instructors or knowledge. People doesn't understand it.
Kata is as good to fight as mnemotechnique is to learn. It's useful to improve if you know the meaning.
Kata is a good way of learning if you know what is in it. There could be MMA kata, boxing kata, climbing kata, tennis kata, but there is no knowledge or vision.
Indeed, sport karate kata is an offense to karate... But I don't want to be boring hahaha it is enough
Well stated. I totally agree, and it's easy to become disheartened, discouraged, etc. This topic is something I've obsessed about since I started training. My school is Wado Ki Kai, which is a hodgepodge of various styles. Unfortunately, the founder died in early 90s, and the little bunkai that's revealed is never pressure tested. Not to mention that most of the instructors can't do it successfully anyways. Instead of pressure testing drills, etc, it's emphasis is learning the "art" of karate, and in addition you will pick up some self defense along the way. When you are new, most people's understanding is so vague that you don't realize all this until years later, and by then you certainly don't want to give up, having ao much time invested. I will say, I do love the art aspect, and this has absolutely changed my life for the better...but how can one truly appreciate the kata, and art if the jutsu is missing? But, as you say and I agree, there's still hope, and I won't give up. Bjj or mma just might be necessary...to me, those are the only tried and true method's...there has to be a middle ground in you training, where you don't go from the slow to fast lane of self defense. Yiu should know how to control someone, with some type of grappling...a backfist to the face or kick, etc shoul not be your only go to in a self defense situation. That's unreasonable. Also, you are right about the punching, with guard down, and hand out...yiu are basically drilling bad habits which have no place in self defense. And point sparring, although better than nothing, is still sub-par...it also doesn't at all relate to kata. Then there's visualization in the kata, to prevent it from being a dance. The worst part is 99% of karate schools try to explain away this stuff, as though you shouldn't be worrying about that, or you need to practice your kata, for example. I do love the forms for the many physical benefits, but it really is up to you if you really want to learn real karate...it takes much more than just showing up to a karate class 2 -3 times a week. You must seek out additional training, and accept the limitations of the type of karate that's usually taught. In all actuality, real violence is scary shit, and common sense will keep you away from ever having to get physical...and then it's up to pure chance. It would be nice to know that I'm not wasting my time though too. All of this and more is in another comment in another video though...this is just the nuts and bolts. 😉
That's a solid comment. The answers, however, are there. A big part of the problem is that they are not explained well, or even understood well.
as someone with an extensive history of concussions but an interest in martial arts...I'm wondering how this kind of stuff can applied safely for everyday people who want to learn martial arts in an effective way but without completely beating themselves up. Seems tricky as those adaptations you mention were potentially a response to that as well
Ian Abernathy just reached hard to save Karate. Instead of trying to "Weekend of Bernie's" Karate let's follow the real path of Karate. Learn from outside and bring back what works. And let's train hard in small groups so the techniques don't get watered down.
Oh no, another IA commercial. Give us a break....
I think Ian Abernathy is Legit.
Ush, I'm Kashar Selema Sensei, Of Tazadaq Dojo Assidean Gabar Kahan Goju jitsu Kan Karate do Association #USA Goju Organization. Great commentary I'm 58 an Martial Arts has changed over the years. I started in 1977 in Northern Kung Fu, I training in Kuk Sool Won as well. I've been doing Goju since 95. And I like the realism of it. I Incorporated kuk Sool joint locking in the syllabus. And strenght training, or old school training, as we called it back in the day. This seems to work for me
Pressure testing....never imagine that i would hear people mention something which is a natural part of karate. Many dojo are watered down, i go lucky to be part of a wado ryu dojo who is from the main lineage of hironori otsuka and i can telle you its not the art who is watered down but the people who practices it. Instead of raising the level...many are decreasing it to suit there level and those same people teaches other.Shame only a few genuine dojo left around the world
Only karate outside of major cities suck. NYC has few Mc Dojo’s. Most dojo’s are cheap child care alternatives were children are promoted to boost self esteem and profits. Finally most Black belts in America simply don’t know how to throw combinations. Most people want black belt status rather than black belt skill.
Your research is pretty darn accurate from what I was taught, I like the part about Itosu, but what karateka historians do not consider, prior to 1879 when Japan took over the Ryukyu Kingdom and wiping out most of the Hoken Culture, the Japanese asked for the Ryukyuans to give them their karate, one might consider they might have kept the 'good' techniques for themselves and in turn watering down the system
Nice Kyohan profile pic!
@@brunocaroortega3146 That's about all the good one can say about this Flash-in-the-Pan.
Eh...maybe. But a whole lot of Okinawan karate adepts passed away during and just following World War II. Probably a lot of the non-middle school karate went the way of the dodo with that, too.
it started changing when it was introduced into the Okinawan school system
I am a blackbelt under Gosei Yamaguchi and agree with many of your points on pressure testing etc. and the disconnect in many modern Karate training. In the Goju Kai curriculm, protective gear is not allowed as this provides a false sense of security and detachment for reality based sparring.
Do you punch each other in the face with no protection at all then?
You forgot Gichin made that even worse when he "industrialized" karate when he went to main island of Japan. Even larger groups of students to check.
Dude, stick to home economics.
If not for him no one would know about karate. Or let alone even be calling it karate
I think the blame lies with Funakoshi and Japanese preferences in the 1920s. In his book, he said that Karate must change to reach the average person, so they can gain the advantages it offers for personal development. It uses the physical to improve the spirit, and this combined the introduction of Savate and other European arts during a time when it seemed more interesting than Okinawan styles, which also had a strong Chinese influence during a time when nationalism was causing disdain for any Asian arts that may compete with Japanese sensibilities. I think that European arts were acceptable because they were not only exotic and seemingly useful and fun and at the time, not a future enemy. The history is very muddied and ambiguous, mostly due to national pride and sometimes obscured actively to promote a style. The 'history' of my own art, Tang Soo Do, is littered with misleading and sometimes blatantly false origin stories. The idea is that Hwang Kee hopped the Great Wall during the '30s to avoid Japanese persecution and came back with his very own style that was based on Chinese- Tang Soo- rather than those dastardly Japanese styles that obliterated Korean culture. It was supposedly based on ancient Korean temple documents. Even the name Tang Soo Do is a reference to Chinese influence, not Japanese. So where did it come from? Shotokan.
Won Kuk Lee was one of the few- maybe the only- student of Funakoshi and he brought the name Tang Soo Do with him to Korea. Why? Because the old kanji for Karate translated as Tang, or China hand, something the Japanese wouldn't appreciate, so it was altered to mean empty hand. Hwang Kee took the name Tang Soo Do from Won Kuk Lee, and the first few katas, identical to Shotokan. But where do the kicks come from? There were no flashy, high kicks in any Okinawan styles. Oddly, it came from Le Boxe Francaise- Savate. When Japan was industrializing, European training was the rage and French instructors taught a mixture of Savate and Prussian military conditioning. Add that to a shopping list, and you have a buffet of stuff that I think Funakoshi's son introduced. So imagine my surprise when my ancient Korean style was actually created in the 1920s. The only Asian influence is the probable Oriental influence on Savate, and that is either imported from Asia to Marseille, or an option created earlier when it was no longer legal to carry swords, so the feet were used as in fencing- Savate was the shoe fencers used. It gives you a headache just trying to figure what is what! It puzzled me until I realized that just because a teacher could fight or perform the techniques well did not make him a historian or even honest about his art. And he needs students to keep open, and if he can't be successful how can he impart his skill to you? The best I can come up with is to train like it matters whatever you do. Learn the technical but develop a discerning mind, and after you have a grip on the mechanics of it, research, learn and grow- as we are dong here.
I’m glad you referenced Iain Abernathy. His writings gave me cause to take a closer look at my kata and what I thought was practical bunkai. Good video. Top shelf stuff. Keep it coming.
I think it depends on the instructor . I was lucky , in different moments of my life I practice shotokan ,shito ryu and tae kwon do . All my instructors were friendly , they would walk in the middle of the students and give one on one interaction and sparing was daily , but they thought kata was for children to learn proper technic and for old people
I do Goju Ryu, and its consider a very combative style of Karate, not so much as sports one. But, it doesnt matter how many tools you have in your toolbox if you dont know how to use them. We need to put some serious time in training and using all the techniques Karate have to offer, drill them with progressive resistant training, adopting training methods and techniques from other styles, etc.
I must agree with the one gentleman said. Years ago, karate was taught to men, between 18 to 30 years old. Classes were small, training was tough and hard, but produced good fighters. Now it’s mainly children, 5 to 15 yr olds. Most of them go because their friends go, and it’s like an after school baby sitting program, not teaching the real karate. They are belt factories, pay dues, show up for class and every four or five months, you get promoted to the next belt. Used to be 5 to 7 years to get a black belt, now we have 12 yr olds with black belts. But money is being made, and no one cares about the real martial art anymore . To me, it’s sad!
It's the business of martial arts instruction. Capitalism at its best. Karate was invented for real combat against armed and unarmed opponents. The katas reveal this. I had been learning Shotokan karate for the last 50 years. The training in the early years was uncompromising and sometimes brutal. You have senpais walking around and 'testing' your stance by sweeping your leg from under you to make sure that it holds. I remember the sickening sound of flesh hitting the concrete floor when a student fell on it. I saw a video where the presenter mentioned that people walked on your belly as part of the training. Yep. You lined up laying down on the floor and the instructor and senpais walked on all the students' bellies. Makiwara practice was not optional. No blackbelts before 18 years old. In tournaments, you wipe the blood from your face and continue. Nowadays, contestants are disqualified when that happens.
On the other hand, the conditions that necessitated all that training are no longer around. I don't have to defend myself against other people daily. I practice karate as a self-defense against physical and mental illness. My weapons are humility and hard unfeeling knuckles (I still hit hard stuff with them). I live by one of Funakoshi Gichin's precepts: 'Do not think of winning. Think, rather, of not losing.'
As a 23 year old looking to start, I find it very frustrating trying to find a legit dojo with intense smoke sessions and actual training. The only dojos with karate around my area Taylor to kids maybe teens but they do not offer adult karate. All they offer for adults is BJJ and Kickboxing
I am really glad to find out the optimal class size is 8 people. I always have trouble teaching big classes.
Also Katsunori Kikuno was a known to apply only Karate in his fights. His only backgrounds are Kyokushin Karate and Judo. But he then mixed Okinawan Karate and that’s all he has. He has gained a win/loss ratio of 28 to 6. He has no boxing, muay thai, BJJ or Wrestling training at all. Just Okinawan, Kyokushin and Judo. He literally even shows how Okinawan Karate can easily contend with boxing, muay thai and more.
I actually watch Kikuno Sensei's matches and have used some of his DARE TSUYO Dojo videos for training ideas. He's among what I would call the 5% of karate that works.
@@GojuRyuPhilosopher Well he was trained in an Okinawan dojo that teaches legit good karate.
@@GojuRyuPhilosopher I think saying 'only %5 of karate works' needs to be qualified. If you mean 'only %5 of Karate practitioners can fight' then perhaps I can agree. But from the outside looking in, Shito Ryu, Kyokushin, and even Shotokan will all put you head and shoulders above someone that doesn't fight at all. I've seen every kick Karate teaches used in an MMA ring aside from the hurricane kick - but I have seen it applied in Kyokushin matches to devastating effect. Their foot work and distance control is solid, punching game maybe a touch weak but how hard is that to improve really? That's a serious question, how hard would it be to improve that portion of striking (even if one needs to step outside the box a little)? Add in Judo and/or Jiu Jitsu and I'd ask what more you need to go toe to toe with just about anyone?
In order to spread/keep the art alive, the art had to adapt to its environment.
Like your videos I a boxer training BJJ but I like learning the history of all martial arts
Hey "Goju Phil" nice video. And true. I believe a lot of it has to do with protection equipment being used. When I started back in the 1960's there was none. Not even a cup. They were to wide and you couldn't kick if you wore one. But Karate started to get watered down back when Itosu Anko started to teach in public schools. It had to be watered down for the kids. Funakoshi then took that watering down to a whole new level. Look at TKD. All based on Gen. Choi Hong Hi's nidan. A watered down nidan. I trained in "Old Chito Ryu" Not the stuff taught today. Very, Very big difference. We trained and threw each other on a wooden floor. No mats. Knuckle push ups on the wooden floor, no mats. What they do now compared to back in the day is just insanity! Back in the day, you had to be a "Man" to get a black belt. It meant much, much more then than it does today.
The Japanese f***** it up it's a simple as that
I agree, the Japanese government is the source of the problem.
Hey can you make a super cut of every Karate master or founder who said karatekas should also do Judo or wrestling so I can use that video to convince more karatekas to branch out. Not because your wandering or bored but because our founders told us to.
Thank you
I fought a pressure tested aikidoka once. Let's just say I hurt my head
I’ve been trying to blend Shorei Kan Goju Ryu, Lethwei, and Jiu-jitsu. I’m lucky to have them all close to me.
Um... Kyokushin Karate is still legit and hardly any of them are Mcdojo or unless. Which maybe why it’s the most practiced. I will admit the sports rules sucks but the style’s hard sparring and pressure testing is there.
would be legit if they practice like MMA...but noooo..no hits to head..that is just too damn painful.
@@CorporaMedicina They do in self-defense training. 🤦♂️
@@Shadowrulzalways ah..yes..the self-defense training..or as I know it "IF-THEN" martial art. if he does that then you do that...as real as it gets I tell ya..
I did...its kickboxing...why bother with kata, kihon and bunkai ..they are just bad habits.
@@CorporaMedicina Kata are not bad habits. Do you even know what kata means?
Just a small information. The name "Azato Yasutsune", one of two masters of Funakoshi, is for the same person as "Asato Anko". and In okinawa, we call his name "Asato Anko". I enjoyed your explanation very much, thank you!!
If you train under a sanctioned organization like JKA, ISKF, SKIF, you will be learning real karate. It's when you end up in some McDojo which is about making money that you end up in trouble. It's important that you pick a dojo which is part of a bonafide organization.
Great historical review and análisis... Thanks.
Because people don't want quality or standards. Just think back to any parent who's more interested in their kid getting the belt...did they really care if the kid earned it?
most north americans just don't want to take the time and years to follow real traditional karate. that's what it comes down to -- the time and discipline.
Consider a simple inward block followed by an opposite had reverse punch. The idea is to block the opponent's punch and then punch back with the opposite hand. White Belt stuff. But in the Karate-Jutsu I was taught in the 70's, that inward block is, in actual combat, considered and inward hammer-fist strike to the jaw, temple, side of the neck (crushing the carotid artery), as your forearms clears away an opponent's guard, followed by a horizontal elbow strike, reverse elbow strike, (going back the opposite direction) morphing into a side hammer fist, all with that same arm, BEFORE the opposite side hand reverse punch is thrown. The High Block is used to block a punch to the face. The fact is however, that many boxers can tag a person once or twice before that block is even completed. In combat, it is an upward forearm strike, under an opponent's jaw that violently snaps his head back, when he's in your face. It's a sneaky forearm strike that comes up from below. While the hand is there, it turns into a tiger claw that rips eyes out, or grabs the hair, the lips or the ears and tears them apart; THEN the reverse punch is thrown. So, the issue how Karate is taught and interpreted that makes it effective/ineffective in a street fight. In the ring it's almost, but not quite, useless.
Thanks for another great video! I've been enjoying Karate Combat with Bas Rutten on youtube lately
Very happy to find your channel. Oss
I like where you went; it rings true with my thoughts for many years now. I have been known to say, if your kata cant deal with the most basic or realistic attacks (left collar grab with right cross, or right cross and left body...), than you're doing it wrong. I also like the old adage, "there are no blocks in karate", because in essence, there are no blocks in kata; imho, they are strikes, throws, imbalancing techniques, or... simply taking an opponents attacking weapon and using to your own advantage. yes there are blocks, but when you hear so many techniques called blocks, the adage of no blocks in karate starts to make sense as a clue. In the end, karate is, and should be taught as, a study in brutality. Watch Kentucky Fried Movie, get past the the teenage pubescence humor, (still a funny movie), and listen to one phrase repeated by the star of the satorization of 'enter the dragon'... "What was that? This is not a charade. We need total concentration." Unfortunately, he was close enough to strike a nerve, but no one was listening. Karate is not a charade, but a lot of what is being taught seems to be just that, without any fault of their own. (also, i always wondered why the 'masters of the past could train within many styles, then teach what they learned even though it was different from what their primary teacher taught, but challenging or interpreting differently todays instructors would be seen as blasphemy. I have been lucky; for 20+ years i have learned and studied at one dojo, but my sensei and sempai have generally let me wander and play with my karate. begrudgingly to begin with i'm sure, but eventually leaving me to my own devices. seminars and other gatherings have brought different insights, and have molded by thinking. And my thinking changes as time goes on, even today. And yah, i much prefer working with a few students when i'm 'teaching'. large group classes are fine for learning basic techniques and conditioning the body. But i loved teaching a late class when i could, because only a few students would attend; those that wanted to explore. we called it a laboratory instead of a class, because we studied, played, tested, changed, and repeated. And yah, lots of two person drills with no hanging attacks. and using kata as a base procedure much of the time! (its 2 years old but good video; covid produced a lot of time for discussion...)
OLD Karate and Judo is gone in the USA and replaced with Katas and just throws. The best stuff in the USA is Muay Thai, Wrestling, Box and MT
My style is based on Shotokan. But now that there is so much access to information, i'm open to incorporate elements of other styles (only those elements which I can understand, my studies in movement sciences also give me a hand with this).
I would say that shotokan (because of all the reasons you pointed out) wont do that good in the streets. Allthough, I do believe that Shotokan has developed a methodology that works on improving not just mobility (mostly hip mobility), but also how to use that mobility to generate power with your legs against the ground in the most efficient way.
I know most self defense scenarios are in close range, but if you study and understand the kata bunkai (and not just do the kata as a simple secuence of motions) you can incorporate that power against the ground in to your set of tools and be more complete.
Your “blocks “ are strikes. Bunkai is deep, and one motion can be used differently depending whatever’s happening. I remember in Lai Tung Pai Kung Fu we’d learn a Taolu and then we’d “spar”, basically we’d get kicked and punched at while we were trying to use technical movements of the form. If we got it wrong, we were corrected and made to get semi beaten up again lol. It’s awesome to hear Karate had a similar practice back in the day.
Real karate is self defense sparring, kata and point sparring have ruined it. Return to tradition and we return to a practical martial art.
What state are you in? You have very interesting topics I love listening to. I’m not as much of a Goju Ryu practitioner as I used to be. But recently I’ve decided to start Kata daily as a New Years resolution. Probably just koryu Kata.
For a lot of people, karate is more of a life art than a fighting art. Are they deluding themselves? Maybe. But if it works for them and adds something to their lives, then good enough. It's not always about fighting.
People are just not like the old days. I train Shorinji-ryu(karate jutsu), kyokushin, traditional shaolin, yi Quan, and lots of wrestling theories japanese and other wise. It was rare even 20 years ago to find someone who was gonna keep training. I been at it 20 years and i do feel like stopping anytime soon.
He ain't lying. 39 years Matsubayash Ryu. Perfect lineage. Yes I teach ALL kata etc but I go further with my teaching of tuide and stand up fighting that utilizes several bits and pieces from a few styles so basically I teach traditional kata but an evolved system of fighting because most Maysubayashi schools offer no kumite other than our 2 man yakasoku drills.
Your thumbnail aged beautifully
I've used both traditional and sporting karate effectively in self defence, I'm of the opinion that martial art's which are also sports are way more effective then those that aren't, You should train both your traditional and sporting karate to be as strong as possible, 2nd Dan in wado ryu karate jutsu!
Real mortal combat systems like Goju Ryu, include biting, spitting, flesh tearing, etc. These are all hidden in kata.
lol, I must have missed the biting and spitting in the kata I learned.
@@Docinaplane you were in a mcdojo
@@Cheeseisboss Nah, I on;y do vegan martial arts.
Mortal combat? Is that as opposed to immortal combat?
you don't need kata to learn to improvise bitting, spitting, flesh tearing. do whatever you can if you're in a position that warrants it: it's go time
back in the bare knuckle knock down days it meant something. my instructor once remarked "the world is full of brown belts." it was a life challenge to achieve black belt and very few people cut it. the invention and adoption of safety gear changed everything and gave way to the profiteering rise of McDojos everywhere
I think people are too focused on sport karate that is nice for speed, but karate was suppose to be about making your body like a weapon. People lose the toughness and conditioning that would take trying to make karate marketable and people pleasing.
I am a Shorin school- and I love your stuff, bro….
Well thought out video. You pretty much nailed it.
So good to hear from true experts.
What happen to real Karate? The rank system, that's what happen.
Well technically its not rank. Thats the problem too many westerners calling it "rank" its grade. So to say karate shouldn't have belts is like saying schools shouldn't have grades
@@sliderx1897 Rank/grade. Either way there are many Karate teachers that did not went through the discipline and purchased a rank certificate. And now they are teaching without any knowledge. When Karate was being practice in secret there was no rank, Karate men where respected base on their Character, not a piece of cloth. Karate belts came later.
@@pedrorodriguez9812 so should all children regardless of age and skill level learn the same material at the same time in school? Should they not have grades? Cuz back in the caveman days there were no schools and people learned by painting on walls. So are you saying nothing should ever evolve? If karate stayed being practiced in secret we wouldbt be having this conversation because it never would have made it to the west.
@@sliderx1897 Simple: There is no rank/grade system in MMA. Unqualified Karate teachers are giving there students a false sense of security, they are selling fantasy and the so called rank/grade system is used in an unethical way. I started in Traditional Karate in 1975 and things were very different, to earn a bkack belt was so difficult.
@@pedrorodriguez9812 i agree. But thays the way it is. Its up to us real black belts to uphold the standard. Its no different than these ivy league schools selling admission to celebrities kids. Somebody F*cked up, not the entire educational system.
You should visit Okinawa
Interesting Idea!
Very helpful.
Most people don't belong in a Karate class. If they don't have the survival instinct to learn from getting beat up by a bully then a Karate class shouldn't be an inviting place for them to learn to defend themselves.
¡WOW! That was very illustrative.
I haven't seen that dit da jow on the right hand side in years
Sometimes popular 'teachers' of an art don't really know much about their art - but are excellent, business-wise at running their respective schools - while some very excellent & knowledgeable practitioners of martial arts aren't very popular at all (if they even teach at all, because they're not necessarily good businessmen; & good businessman or not, some just keep to themselves). I've met some excellent martial artists who couldn't keep enough students to afford a storefront - & other excellent martial artists who couldn't keep their storefront studios (& many of these excellent martial artists - if they teach at all - teach at their homes or in parks, or, on occassion may share a storefront space - because it's all they can afford to do).
To help you discover how to use Karate for self-defense, study the movements & applications of Chinese Xing Yi Quan (Hsing-I Chuan) - but don't waste any time, as in 2014 this martial art was adopted into Wushu (which changes martial arts for Wushu Competition - which emphasises form over function, & often even changes form &/or adapts a newly-made form for uniform competition purposes: so folk spend their time practicing a competition form without any specific regard to function, which in time could hurt the art). Fortunately still in existance are all-style, free-style, full-contact competitions where well-trained Xing Yi Quan practitioners have done well in (in the past - when they've entered, that is); so this art is viable under pressure (if taught & learned well, of course). Fairly-decent proficiency in this art can be had usually within a year of practice (even far less time if one has plenty of time to devote to a lot of focused practice each day).
Caveat: Xing Yi Quan applications tend to be quite brutal - like Karate applications used to be.
do you have any of Shihan Peter Urbans books?
Great video
what do you think about Karate combat ??
I think when anime got bad the karate scene was sure to follow
Idk dude but the Kyokushin Karate in my hood is Mega Badass
They do not teach ancient combat martial arts in the modern day karate. It just a modern-day sports now like baseball....
I see a common mistake in that conclusion. Itosu, Motobu created karate based upon Te (Ryu-Te, Ryukyu-Te, Bushi-No-Te ...). The Te was Okinawan version of jiu-jitsu with added Chinese methods (kata) and more pressure on hits in the XIX century. The Te is not Karate. They are two different martial arts. Unfortunately due to political reasons Okinawan masters neglect JJ as a source of karate. Obviously, it is not related to Goju-ryu and Isshin -ryu as schools incorporated directly from China with small changes.
i could have told you that,it's all about tricking etc
It's not class size, it's the family dojo problem and lack of serious training. Everyone needs a belt or stripe every 3 months or they cry or quit. Also, economics. Without money, the dojo doesn't survive. In the 90s I trained with a dojo full of ass kickers. Blood, sweat and broken bones on a regular basis. Loved it
My Karate style is based on Kyokushin but we allow head shots and we have always cross trained with Judo and Jujitsu. A lot of hard sparring. I agree most schools are crap, probably 90%.
sounds like the real deal. good onya
Kudo?
"...part of the 5% that doesn't suck." 🤣🤣🤣
You had me at the MatPat impression.
point sparring ruined the martial art. little schools in the US offer actual karate training. there is only sport karate schools whose main goal is to win in a point sparring tournament. using this type of karate would not help in reality. jumping and turning into superman is one of the worst things to do on the street.
It’s all about the belts and entertaining small children and the money
Plus there are way more karate men in top flight mma then that I don't even watch it much and can rattle off chuck lidel, George Saint piere, baz ruten, Robert whitteker, lytto, machida, wonder boy Thompson,Raymond Daniels, Dan hooker!
Unfortunately it’s still true two years later 😔
Luckily it’s still alive and well in Okinawa 🥋
Karate is empty handed kobudo. Look at the documentary called "Dances with Weapons".
And Karate Combat?
Well... WKF pretty much put the nails on karate coffin. I mean, it made karate get recognition, bur what it cost?
Tōde was what good Karate was.
"tradition"/"old karate"....what exactly is that? Your sensei had their own style of teaching. So did theirs...so did theirs...and so on.
I think we should spend less time talking and researching history and more time testing what we already know. I firmly believe answers will present themselves if we keep practicing and sparring. I find it ironic that the response to Karate's alleged inefectivness are these long analysis, (not to impugn your work, sir), but I think we should focus on learning more from what we know and from practical cross examination. I agree that comparing karate with MMA is good for getting info, I don't think it is an accurate assessment of how effective it currently is. The reason is that karate is not taught today as a means to create professional fighters, it focuses on teaching John Doe techniques to defend from another John Doe. Let's be realistic, the average John Doe is NOT an MMA fighter and is not an experienced fighter either. Cases can be made for virtually any martial art to be effective and ineffective in certain scenarios.
Amazing video
well here is my hypothesis: in real fight all martial arts look the same and they come down to: Kickboxing, Wrestling and BJJ. Don't matter how long you practice your kata at the end..when you fight for real you will not use any of these techniques. However if you are a martial art instructor you got to eat and put bread on table. How do you get students:
1. Be warrior and a champion- show your belts and trophies on the wall-hard, painful and expensive life, also no guarantee that you will be a champion.
2. Be a student of a champion - that is expensive ..very expensive...so your initial investment will be high.
3. Become instructor but make other people suffer..make their life hard and panful and expensive just claim that you teach "the old ways" of Okinawa..
4. Become "expert" in kata = become an artist..but not a fighter (Rika Usami).
5. Have a circus act: bend irons with your teeth, break bricks with your fists, or perform feats of strengths and high jumps, high kicks (shaolin monks..they have to eat too)
6. Invent your own martial art, with your own techniques and katas (Jeet Kwon Do - Bruce Lee) - actually most people go that way. That's why we have so many different styles of karate..
Man, I completely disagree. You have no clue about Karate. Try to meet real karate Masters and you will get What I mean.
lol Aikido is not a COMPETATIVE is not sport,it's a way of life designed to create a better more moral person
It depends how you train. Train like Yahara Sensei and it will work in self defence. You also have to train on bags and makawara. So your power is therr. Hiting the air is not effective. The old Shotokan style always did makawara training daily. Plus heavy bags. Side kicks to a heavy bag builds power. Shotokan was not made for fighting in the ring. It was for a quick self defence one strike one kill. Its not about fighting like the UFC. It does work in its place.
makiwara training is mandatory in okinawan karate. they also use other apparatus for conditioning that you won't see anywhere else in the world -- the old style
You look like musican? Guitarist or drummer?
The thumbnail brought me here!
I can HEAR Sensei sometimes when you talk, Senpai.
Funny, I hear "Senselessness." Listen Closer.
Point fighting when done by intelligent fighters develop fighters who are the very best feet and legs fighters in the world. Tyrone Spong and Stephen Thompson to name two great were point fighters.
First time I’ve visited your channel, couple of suggestions: take a breath, slow down. The content is good but to be honest I must of missed half of it because you speak so quickly I feel like I’ve been hit by a train. Peace out.
Bjj & muai Thai will go they way of karate , watered down
Unfortunately you are right. I'm a BJJ practitioner and see it happening around the country. Americans don't like the slow progress and countless hours of live rolling. They would rather have an attendance blue print for their next belt
There have always been good martial artists and bad ones. But this video is strange. It's almost like Napoleon Dynamite made this video. ...... Understand this easy thing - The world and everything else EVOLVED. Many styles and arts, (while trying to hold on to memories of the past) did NOT. Of course we should always hold on to the traditions of etiquette and understanding, but the physical nature of all humans evolves. I don't understand why this isn't obvious. People that can fight fight. They have no problem passing on their legacies.
How would you know? How long have you studied? You look very young who are you to say what karate works and what doesn’t?
the only ones are the ppl that have successfully used it in sport or self defense. everyone else is playing make believe