Agreed. Granted, the storm had subsided considerably, almost immediately after the Fitzgerald went down as horrible luck would have it. But still, I'm imagining my Captain giving the order that we're going back out into that mess, everything in me would be screaming NO!! Even to hear Cooper recount how he handled the request to go back out, he was extremely hesitant also. Massive respect for all.
Honestly that’s the theory that makes the most sense to me, because the Big Fitz had taken the starboard list and the waves were growing huge every hour, it’s no wonder why the 720 foot ship went down without a cry for help. Still gives me chills every time I research and watch video simulations of how the Edmund Fitzgerald went down. RIP to the 29 men who served and big thanks to Gordon Lightfoot for the dedication.
This simulation is terrifying. Imagine you're on the bridge and suddenly you ram straight into the lake bed and get run up over by the water. One moment you're battling rough seas the next you moment you're on the bottom being crushed by the waves. Probably faster than the blink of an eye.
The only thing I question about that theory is if it drove into the bottom wouldn't that have stove in the bow. I have never seen photos of the bow itself just the Pilot House. Also if it was going at speed and hit the bottom wouldn't it have snapped off a lot of the antenna and Mast on top of the pilothouse as well.
Soo many excellent lyrics to that song that evoke powerful imagery. "The wind in the wire made a tattletale sound..." "The dawn came late..." "At 7:00 p.m. a main hatchway caved in, he said 'fellas it's been good to know ya' " The melody to the song actually runs counter to the feel of it, not very good, and overly repetitive. But the instrumentation is so atmospheric, haunting as you say, and the lyrics, those powerful lyrics! With the exception of the completely unnecessary verse about the Great Lakes, which almost sounds like a tourist bureau advertisement, these are some of the most emotion-evoking lyrics I've ever heard, really getting to the essence of the event.
“Does anyone know where the love of God goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?” Man! That’s a heavy sense of forsakenness. Like Christ on the Cross. 💔💔
sküll düggery I do believe this theory has to be correct. The Fitz had bottomed out near Caribou island which would explain the rails being down and some covers missing as well as the list and the flooding, to quote Cooper, “ he was pumping out as much as it was coming in “, he was also noted as saying that McSorley was I believe 9 feet off an uncharted shoal, and these boats always give off that jutering feeling all he needed was to just rupture a few tanks, if and when he probably did that would explain the flooding as well as the rail and covers being gone, Cooper was also quoted as saying two massive waves rolled up his stern, he figures those waves caught the Fitzgerald. McSorley was making a run for it, be he ran out of time. “ It was quick and catastrophic “. It would’ve hit him hard, with the weight of the flooding and possibly cargo shifting, with his list, it’s gonna put his bow down, and leaving 199ft of the Fitzgerald above the seas for the second wave, it also would explain the snap.
@@ZNZDerby - yeah, as in many a foundering, there were a lot of little irony's to this story: if they only had a fathometer (standard and required after this wreck). if only a 2 dollar fuse hadn't been faulty to make a backup generator do it's job and provide light on shore. if only the charts near the shoals were completely true and updated. if only cooper had been adamant in telling mcsorely his feelings about their proximity to the shoals...
sküll düggery I do have to disagree, he did tell McSorley he was 9 feet off, I feel like they both knew he was too close, but you have to understand you can’t panic your crew. Cooper even said McSorley sounded tired over the radio, but he never panicked his crew. You can’t do that in a storm like this. There’s no doubt in my mind that Cooper and McSorley knew he was to close and was possibly gonna run aground or rupture a few tanks, that’s why I believe McSorley was making a run for it, a run to whitefish bay.
@@ZNZDerby - i've heard the transcripts. i don't recall anything about 9 feet. i understand about the decorum between skipper's. you don't just bark at another- and if your ship is in peril, you'd never get on the radio and announce you MIGHT not make it. at any rate, yes, he was trying to make a run for whitefish and beach it there.
sküll düggery I might have been wrong on Cooper telling McSorley he was nine feet off but I do recall Cooper openly saying he was near nine feet off, and any master shouldn’t radio on your going down, Cooper even said he thought the Anderson was Indestructible and if anything so did McSorley, he thought the Fitz was gonna get him down.
Most likely, they had little time to react, and couldn't do anything other than accept their fate. The ship had been flooding for a while, they had also been placed into a list (as you could hear in the video), and with how high the waves were (25 feet according to the Arthur M. Anderson) it was inevitable for the Fitz to go down, as heartbreaking as it was.
@Luca uh, no. Not an actual recording. There are transcripts of the final communications from the captain: "We are holding our own." Then a few minutes later, the ship disappeared from radar. Nothing like that, no 'live mike' recordings like a voice cockpit recorder.
I live not far from where the Mighty Fitz went down. The waves on Lake Superior are monstrous at times. As a Commercial Fisherman, there were a few times when I questioned my sanity for going out on the water in such big waves.
"I think it was sudden and catastrophic; the ship just disappeared completely. If those seas were that big, they rolled up his deck, and he's got a list, then the water stays up in the forward cabin and put the bow down underwater. Once she started down, the screw just drove into the bottom."
If that was the case, the only comfort any of the family members could possibly have is that there was very little time for the men to realize that "this was the end" for them. I listened to a lecture from a man that visited and photographed the site and he mentioned a rope being tied on a rail or stantion of some type and that Mcsorsely was overheard telling his first mate not to allow anyone out on deck. Him having to give that order tells me that maybe some of the men were well aware of there situation and maybe they were trying to do something to increase there survival chances
@@thomasdaniels6824 Good point,why would anyone have to give that order in terrible weather conditions.Nobody wants to be on deck when the seas are that rough...unless there was a reason they wanted to be on deck.
By far, this is the most plausible explanation I've seen for the wreck, given the fact that the one lifeboat recovered was torn in half, how visibly dented the visor on the Pilot house is-though that could be from 45 years underwater and pressure-and that one of the bodies of the crew had been found inside the pilot house with their life vest on; it would all make sense.
All the dents and holes in the bow were discovered within a year of sinking, so you are correct about it hitting hard. No bodies in the pilot house, it's laying on the lake bed next to the bow.
@@idontknowwhattosay2298 The 1994 expedition that found the first one would later state that 4 more had also been located, which would bring the total to 5. That would make it about the number of crew required to man a ships bridge.
@@randomrazr as far as i know, no bodies were recovered from the wreck site. Add to the fact that a portion of the wreck is in Canadian waters, the Canadian Government refuses to permit anyone to go near the wreck site.
this is just one of those stories that never lets go of you. i was just a 10 year old kid in ‘75 but almost 50 years later and it’s still something that you want to just have not really happened.
My father was barely a teenager when this happened. I'm older now than he was then by about 10 years. But when I was just a early teen he showed me the song by Gordon Lightfoot and I've been fascinated by the story ever since and like you said it hasn't loosened it's grip even slightly between now and when I first heard the song. A truly terrifying event of folklore level proportions. Although it was very much a real and sad event.
I mean, they probably knew they were going to die for at least a few seconds, and they likely drowned. So they still suffered mentally and physically quite a bit.
@@osasunaitor Call my car she all the time lol. If anything, it's a form of flattery. That we equate brilliant and hard working, often beautiful machines with women.
729.16 feet was the max allowable length and her width was the max allowable width allowed on the Great Lakes. Any larger and she wouldn't had fit the canal locks at the time. She was the largest ore ship on the Great Lakes until the iron hull ore ships surpassed her size I think around the time she sank.
imagine going to work like you had for 40 years and the last voyage before retirement you are suddenly 100 feet down and slamming forward into the glass as you feel pressure building to 500 feet down and crash. thats what keeps me out of stormy water.
I believe this theory, since there is a big hole on Edmund Fitzgerald’s starboard bow, she touches the sea floor, she splits. Her stern capsizes and sinks.
I worked in the legal industry for almost 30 years, and a lot of the time was spent on accident investigation. In order to determine cause, you don't start at the point of contact, but back in time, and in a very casual conversation with someone who had some knowledge, but not in an official capacity at all, when I asked his opinion, he replied to the effect of which side of the paycheck you were on. The Fitz was the first ship in its era at the great lakes ship building to have a pre-fabricated hull, and when they went to put it on, it didn't fit, so what they did was, "threw a bunch of welding rods in the hole, and then welded it shut -- also -- it was "spot welded" and not held together with "rivets." which is the same as airplanes -- and one of the crew from earlier sails said that when they hit the big waves, the ship would bounce up and down, like when you jump off a diving board, it would stay stiff, instead of bend into the wave, so exactly like the Titanic, the ship was doomed before it set sail. What's awful is they used to call the Fitz, the Titanic of the great lakes - also, what most people don't know, the Titanic was on fire when it left its initial port -- there was a coal fire which had been burning for almost two months before she left her docks, and some engineers speculate it helped to cause the metal to be brittle, with the hot coal in the pits, and the freezing sea water outside, and even if she had made it to America, the ship would have eventually sunk due to metal fatigue. Also, the captain of the Anderson reported the rogue wave, and it's something they call The Three Sisters -- the first wave, which is small, but big enough to break over your deck, and under normal circumstances the water would flow back into the sea, but before that happens, the larger second wave hits, and now the ship is flooded with the weight of both waves, and before that can leave, the third largest wave (which the Anderson capt. estimated at about 35 ft), when it hit the decks, there was no recovery, and probably went down exactly as this video depicts. The Anderson capt. says the thing that worried him the most was that those men on that ship didn't die immediately, they had time before hitting bottom -- There was one other investigation done in the early 2000's, and they concur the ship broke apart on the surface; that it wasn't because the hatches weren't locked into position -- another capt. testified that they'd been using that exact hatch lock since the 1940's, and that they weigh about 4,000 pounds each, and the most water that may seep under one that is not locked is a cup -- another mechanical engineer weighed in saying he believed the water was not coming in through the hatches, either, but that the bottom decks were flooded more than the two bilge pumps could handle, which caused the ship to list. Then, of course, there is criticism of the capt., who had the reputation of being a "rough sea" capt., had the knowledge how to sail in those type of conditions, but, that he didn't have the training and knowledge of how to predict the weather forward. When they set sail, the lake was calm and beautiful, then as it progressed is when the alerts were sent out. The capt. said in one radio call that he'd never seen anything like this in all of his 43 years of sailing. And, he did try everything he could. They clearly heard him tell another person in the pilot house not to let anyone out on the deck. The wind, which was hurricane force at some points, had taken out both of his radars. He called the coast guard, and they had no rescue planes in the area, which showed up 8 hrs. later -- and -- that the lighthouse and other navigational equipment was not working. The Anderson did all they could to help him navigate. Another "mistake" some say he made was to slow down and allow the Anderson to pass him -- it had been trailing about ten miles behind him throughout the voyage -- again, speculation, if he had kept his speed up, he may have made it to safety in Whitefish Bay. I don't know if there is anything "official," but many agreed there were two causes, the ship was not seaworthy when it left port, and the weather. The only positive thing, and these men's lives were not lost in vain, because stricter inspection regulations were put into place, and new safety regulations concerning lifeboats and sea survival suits (not the right name, but it's the bright orange ones. Sorry for the long-winded post.
I would say you hit the nail on the head, what side of the paycheck were you on. Wasn't welded property, but what they had to go through is mind blowing, your comment got my attention, thanks.
@Biden Sucks That wasn't a rant. It was an acknowledgement of the incredible price every man on that ship paid. It changed safety regulations, with more inspection of the ships. Plus, the ship was overloaded. These men's families have suffered until their deaths in sorrow of the loss of their lives, that great loss was felt into the next generations, grandchildren those men would never teach to fish, hold in their arms. The ship was slated to go into dry dock for the thorough inspection, and someone up the line was worried it would not pass muster without expensive repairs, and they wouldn't get what in effect was their inspection sticker, and that the Fitz may not have been able to sail in the summer. These brave and tragic men's deaths were not in vain. There is no way to measure how many other lives their deaths may have saved, and shame on you to make any type of "funny" comment regarding this tragic event. These men did not die instantly. They died in fear, knowing the ship was doomed, and whether or not it broke apart on the ocean's surface or when it hit the lake floor, they were alive when it happened. The captain had ordered no man to be outside, and the rooms/areas they were in did not instantly flood. They felt the freezing cold water as it covered their bodies and eventually flooded their lungs. I've heard the testimony of many people who survived, and they all talked about how horrible it is; how painful it is. I hope no tragedy ever touches your life, and the lives of those you care about, But in the meantime show respect for the lives of those lost to the sea in this horrible event !!
@@davestratton460 I totally agree with you about what those men experienced. While so many things changed, annual ship inspections as opposed to the previous time period of several years. I want to say five, but I'm not sure that is correct. I hate using this example, and I absolutely do not mean any disrespect, but it's the same thing that happened with the Kobe Bryant helo crash. The Fitz was overloaded by several thousand pounds. It should have never left the dock, irrespective of the weather. And Kobe's helo should have never left the airport. Both captain and pilot should have stood firm against their employer, the Fitz being overloaded and Kobe's helo should not have flown in the fog. But I must acknowledge, it's easy for me to be a Monday morning quarterback. The loss of life will always be tragic, but the good that came from that great loss is immeasurable. Have a great evening, Patricia
Huge respect for the Anderson crew who went back out on the lake in the storm to look for the Fitz & any crew members. These are real mariners who actually look out for each other, and are the polar opposites of the Costa Concordia's Bridge Crew & Captain.
RIP the crew of the SS Edmund Fitzgerald Captain Ernest M. McSorley (September 29, 1912 - November 10, 1975), aged 63 First Mate John H. McCarthy (July 14, 1913 - November 10, 1975), aged 62 Michael E. Armagost (October 14, 1938 - November 10, 1975), aged 37 Fred J. Beetcher (February 24, 1919 - November 10, 1975), aged 56 Thomas D. Bentsen (January 10, 1952 - November 10, 1975), aged 23 Edward F. Bindon (January 7, 1928 - November 10, 1975), aged 47 Thomas D. Borgeson (November 26, 1934 - November 10, 1975), aged 41 Oliver J. Champeau (September 4, 1934 - November 10, 1975), aged 41 Nolan S. Church (July 13, 1920 - November 10, 1975), aged 55 Ransom E. Cundy (April 16, 1922 - November 10, 1975), aged 53 Thomas E. Edwards (February 28, 1925 - November 10, 1975), aged 50 Russell G. Haskell (May 19, 1935 - November 10, 1975), aged 40 George J. Holl (March 11, 1915 - November 10, 1975), aged 60 Bruce L. Hudson (September 10, 1953 - November 10, 1975), aged 22 Allen G. Kalmon (February 7, 1932 - November 10, 1975), aged 43 Gordon F. MacLellan (August 2, 1945 - November 10, 1975), aged 30 Joseph W. Mazes (February 13, 1916 - November 10, 1975), aged 59 Eugene W. O'Brien (July 17, 1925 - November 10, 1975), aged 50 Karl A. Peckol (September 6, 1955 - November 10, 1975), aged 20 John J. Poviach (June 6, 1916 - November 10, 1975), aged 59 James A. Pratt (January 29, 1931 - November 10, 1975), aged 44 Robert C. Rafferty (June 16, 1913 - November 10, 1975), aged 62 Paul M. Riippa (August 15, 1953 - November 10, 1975), aged 22 John D. Simmons (August 25, 1913 - November 10, 1975), aged 62 William J. Spengler (September 11, 1916 - November 10, 1975), aged 59 Mark A. Thomas (August 14, 1954 - November 10, 1975), aged 21 Ralph G. Walton (July 22, 1917 - November 10, 1975), aged 58 David E. Weiss (November 13, 1953 - November 10, 1975), aged 22 Blaine H. Wilhelm (August 12, 1923 - November 10, 1975), aged 52 Gone but not forgotten.
I've heard that maintenance wasn't very regularly performed on The Fitz so that would seem to play a role somehow. They were interested in keeping the record hauls going.
Thank you Mr. Lightfoot for the years and years of your songs..they just seem to fit any mood you're in .this one and so, so many others...some that never got played on the radio...
Since the ship was 729 feet long and it sank in about 530 feet of water, wouldn't that have meant as the bow of the ship hit the bottom, a portion of the ship was still sticking out of the water until it broke and sank? Since the length of the ship was longer than the depth of water it sank in. So terrible and sad.
Yes, it's likely she plowed into the bottom and snapped her keel on impact. There was literally no saving her and no chance for anyone to call for help. There one second, gone the next.
By the time the bridge went underwater, the pressure of the water imploded the bridge and it flooded. This is likely the case because the door to the bridge is wide open on the wreck. All her electrical telegraphs were in the STOP position meaning that someone likely switched the engines to all stop before she completely sank. Likely because the ship was not going to make it. Other than that, nothing else is known about the crew's fate. It's unfortunate how much is not known.
I live on the Gulf of Mexico and I have been in as much as 15 ft seas which is about half the Fitzgerald was experiencing and our swells are longer, and I have been on a boat that has bottomed out too. When I experienced smacking a shoal between swells, the water for a few instants was very shallow and the force was severe. My thinking is that McSorley got too close to Caribou Island and between some of those swells, he smack the bottom and broke the back (keel) of the boat and the boat continued on damaged and McSorley knew the ship was damaged by the vents but didn't know how bad. I think he was keeping a cool head and the ship had taken on too much water and the pilot house dove into a wave and didn't come up. I don't think the ship broke between swells. At one point the bow plowed into the bottom of the lake and the physics of momentum with the stern sticking out of the water fractured the hull and I doubt the idea of the screw driving the ship down is a good story but not reality. When the bow hit the bottom and the stern sticking out of the water, the momentum separated the two parts and the stern sank, period, on it's topside. I think Fitzgerald would have survived the storm without smacking the shoals. I think waves tore off radar antenna cable connections too. I think the report of the USCG was a disgrace blaming the clamps. You can see on photos of the wreck that many covers imploded by water pressure and were sucked into many of the holds otherwise the bottom would have been littered by steel hold covers.
Gosh, thank you for your post. I can't cite a specific report, but if my recall is correct, underwater teams were able to see evidence/damage, it did hit the bottom. As I said, I can't refer you to where I got that information, but I believe it's accurate, and your explanation makes a lot of sense. Accidents with loss of life will occur in every mode of transportation on this planet, including pedestrians walking down a sidewalk. As awful as this was, improvements were made within the industry with the goal of preventing this type of accident from occurring. And also, as you suggests about hitting the bottom, I read somewhere I cannot cite, but that the charts the capt. Was relying on were incorrect, and while he may have believed he was going towards safety, the opposite happened. I have zero nautical experience or education, so my comment may be wrong, but I think I also read where the bottom is not static, and the sands will actually shift positions. If that's incorrect, please correct me. Again, thanks for posting using your own experience. Kind regards, Patricia
Few years back there was a similar gale on the big lake. They ordered and all craft warning. We were on the west side of the Keweenaw and there were 40 footers, but they said up on the Canadian side the waves were peaking at 60-70 foot! I don't see how any ship could possibly survive that....everything is a little bug on the big water when she turns ugly.
I've never heard of an all ship warning... but on those lakes I can believe it. I don't think anyone who hasn't seen the Great Lakes has any idea how big they really are... or how nasty they can be.
I remember when that song was released. I grew up near Detroit and sailed a lot on Lake Erie so it meant something to me when the Fitz went down. The song still gives me a catch in my throat even after hearing it many times.
This is exactly what I believe happened. The Anderson and other ships had reported three consecutive rogue waves, and with the Queen already having a list, it was basically game over. The only difference in my personal theory is that it was the bow smashing into the bottom that snapped her spine and broke her in three right then and there. No chance of escape, no warning, no time to call for help. All over in a matter of seconds.
@Eric Aung then why did they find 1 lifeboat All Ships need lifeboats I think there was exactly two lifeboats on that ship for each crew member and Captain
I think this is the way we lost the mighty Fitz. Those boy's had those hatches dogged down the proper way because they knew they was heading into weather...it's November on the great lakes...every Captain knows better.
I've heard that the "screws drove her straight down" a million times and while this animation does an interesting job visualizing how she possibly sank it's got some ridiculously back-breaking "physics" going unmentioned @ 0:14-0:16 then depicts the screws as literally airborne for virtually every critical moment during the sinking (and look how high the back end "floats" above the "waterline" even after the breakup...)
Yep... and with an LOA of 728" and a water depth of 530", the bow, in the animation, was already dug in on the bottom while the stern was in the air. It doesn't look like the prop drove anything.
@@michaelfields8793 ...and the stern looks like it's simulated as still floating when well above where they simulate the waterline. (btw, do you know if they captained those lake freighters from the forward or rear superstructures when in open water? I always imagine them having the whole ship laid out ahead of them but I forget how those ships had the tall forward structure and what it might have been like to be in THERE instead...)
@@JohnA891 That makes much more sense. I thought it was weird when he said the screw drove her down in the same moment the stern was up in the air according to the animation.
"they might have split up, or they might have capsized, they may have broke deep and took water, all that remains are the faces and the names of the wives and the sons and the daughters" 😔
I first read about the Edmund Fitzgerald in Reader's Digest decades back. Sad to think that ship sank in a few seconds being battered by huge waves. A long and slender ship like this would flex with each wave. The steel can only stand so much flexing until the hull completely fractured
That’s exactly what I was asking too. I think so, that the bow of the ship hit the bottom while part of it was still upright until the whole ship broke apart. So sad.
I believe the frequency and amplitude of those waves was a little exaggerated. Lakers RARELY if ever suspend their midsection in midair between waves. I remember in 1975-76 during the investigation, one of the theories had her breaking in half from the stress of having 250 feet of a hull full of 26,000 tone of taconite total unsupported. At the time, that explanation seemed plausible to me - until I learned more about the ships and hydrodynamics. So the verdict is that you can do this with a toy in a bathtub, but not with a 730-foot long steel ship - even with 18-foot following seas. This animation correctly shows her breaking in half due to the a 45 degree nosedive, the resulting shift in cargo forward, and the relative lack of strength the midsection of the hull had when 6,000 or 7,000 tons of engine, galley, crew quarters and the rest of the stern headed for the bottom came to a sudden stop when the bow dug into the lakebed. What did Newton say? A mass in motion tends to stay in motion until the bow stops and the stern collapses 200 or so feet of the midsection like tin foil. But I digress. Wave frequency int he Lakes is much shorter than on an ocean, but not as long as this animation showed -- at least when coupled with 25-foot waves that night. Regardless, props to whomever created this animation. Any interest at all in the Fitz, especially when done with respect, gets a big thumbs up from me. Thanks all.
Yes! The vertical scale is greatly exaggerated with respect to the horizontal dimensions. No ship could survive with that much of her hull out of the water. The concept of the 'three sisters' might be viable but the animation doesn't help. The hull had already taken on water and the lack of buoyancy would have also reduced the ability of the foredeck and bow to come back up. The movement of this water forward would have also been a decrement.
My Mother Was Born On 1974 Before The Lake Freighter Sank In November 10, 1975, During A Storm, I Still Think The Big Fitz Would Still Lay In The SeaFloor This Day, And Rest In Peace 29 Crew Members.
to be in that wheelhouse...it would be like a car crashing into a brick wall ...instant and merciful. the crew aft well..that's a different horror. I remember that night at home watching the news. I was 9yrs old. RIP to the lost 29.
Looking at this sinking animation, and how huge those waves are, survival doesn't look very likely. Lifeboats would be nearly useless in such conditions (modern enclosed ones would have better chances, but at the time they were still open to my understanding) not to mention no way of launching them even if they did know the ship would sink. But this happened probably in less than a minute.
Also from what I’ve heard the Anderson had 5 bulkheads, whereas the Fitz only had three, making her more susceptible to twisting and hogging. The Fitz battled hard, but with water coming in and her hull flexing under the immense waves, she finally just couldn’t take it. God rest the men on board and their families.
Highly exaggerated animation, admittedly done for illustrative purposes... but nowhere close to reality. The waves would have to be 200 feet high for this animation to be accurate.
I was thinking those waves don't seem plausible - I couldn't imagine the ship passing through such huge waves without breaking in half even before hitting bottom.
“She was there at the dock when the lines cast off And the _Fitz_ got underway. The sun shown down as her wake trailed out On that cold November day. When she wrapped her cloak over ship and crew, When the winds began to roar. Every man onboard tightened down their souls Far from the Michigan shore. McSorely, true, telephoned the crew When the storm was setting in, “Better hold on tight through this day and night Of straight line killer winds. Forty four years I have met these storms, When Northeastern gales have blown, But oh, these mountains on Superior Are the worst I’ve ever known.” Who hears a prayer when the wind strikes down, And the seas boil into foam? When the waves cap off and are blown away, And you’re miles away from home? Who hears a cry when the north wind roars, And the crew are pitched to the rail? As the great ship rolls and the church bell tolls For those lost in the gale. When he first saw her, we’ll never know; On the deck awash, or the bridge. He must have known when the _Fitz_ would groan And the bow began to pitch. When she came for the crew and McSorely too, As the _Fitz_ rose up no more, “Oh Lady of the Storms, you won this year, But I bested you for forty four!”
you wouldnt even know you are dying until the windows break and lights go out and pressure of deep water hits you then the freezing and violent rush to the bottom. what would you be thinking as walls of black water spins your world and furnature and broken pieces of the bridge or mess or bunks wash over you? alarms going off or just sudden vertical shift of filing cabnets desks windows and doors slamming.
Spent a week kayaking along the Lake Superior coast in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Took a day trip to the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum in Paradise, MI which is one of the most interesting museums I've ever been to. One of the many shipwreck displays containing artifacts and such is the Edmund Fitzgerald which takes up the whole corner of the interior. The shipwreck itself took place there at Whitefish Bay which is the site of the most shipwrecks on all the Great Lakes
God bless those men. Never forget the Fitz. I work on boats and I pray that if I'm ever in that situation that God makes my suffering short and helps to ease my mind. God speed boys God speed.
I'm frankly not seeing how "the screw just drove her into the bottom" when, in this simulation, her screw is 50-200' in the air before, during, and after her bows are already on the bottom. It would have just been spinning air and not driving anything at that point. Her length is longer than the depth-of-water in which she sank (or at least it was before the break). Am I missing something?
i always thought of the opposite. wave took over the bridge and plunged it face first into the bottom where it broke. intriging to see the reverse of ly long held view.
@KrispyKrackers88 YES!!! That's it!!!! Thank you! I actually found it shortly after I posted the comment. I still can't believe I remember that far back when Discovery Channel and History Channel were GOOD.
I think this animation is the best depiction of what happened. They said that the ship sank so quickly that there was no time to escape so it must have happened really quick. A nearby ship said that they were once looking at the Fitzgerald from a distance and the next second, it’s lights went out immediately. 🫡 god bless the men on the Fitzgerald they are not forgotten.
The only problem I have is the point of break up. The Fitz was so overloaded, I believe that's she broke as the bow went under and hadn't yet reached the bottom.
If a massive storm knocked out their radar, their ability to see, and the Fitz bottom out, rupturing some water tight compartments, flooding badly. Then being battered by wave after wave, and then a couple massive waves, was enough to send the Fitz straight to the bottom. It must have happened so fast that nobody had enough time to react, call for help, or get off the ship. I suppose, anybody in the wheel house was more apparent of what's about to happen, but most below deck probably didn't know until the last minute. Rip
I`m no expert. But she broke at 520 feet from the bow and sits 520 feet down. Wheel house is battered. Visors bent. All surface damage from masive wave action. Doubt wheel house crew were alive before she dived down. Tons of water would have swept them downstairs or out the doors taking that pounding. I would expect the glass in the wheel house to be mostly busted out or busted in.
The Arthur Anderson crew and freighter went back out in the raging storm to look for survivers. Real Men, these mariners. They have my utmost RESPECT.
Agreed. Granted, the storm had subsided considerably, almost immediately after the Fitzgerald went down as horrible luck would have it. But still, I'm imagining my Captain giving the order that we're going back out into that mess, everything in me would be screaming NO!! Even to hear Cooper recount how he handled the request to go back out, he was extremely hesitant also. Massive respect for all.
Don't forget the SS William Clay Ford. It was the sister ship of the Anderson and went back out there with her
The brave souls
There were no survivors all 29 men died on that ship
You mean Arthur M. Anderson?
Honestly that’s the theory that makes the most sense to me, because the Big Fitz had taken the starboard list and the waves were growing huge every hour, it’s no wonder why the 720 foot ship went down without a cry for help. Still gives me chills every time I research and watch video simulations of how the Edmund Fitzgerald went down. RIP to the 29 men who served and big thanks to Gordon Lightfoot for the dedication.
This simulation is terrifying. Imagine you're on the bridge and suddenly you ram straight into the lake bed and get run up over by the water. One moment you're battling rough seas the next you moment you're on the bottom being crushed by the waves. Probably faster than the blink of an eye.
@@andrewesau51 totally a scary situation to ever be in.
The only thing I question about that theory is if it drove into the bottom wouldn't that have stove in the bow. I have never seen photos of the bow itself just the Pilot House. Also if it was going at speed and hit the bottom wouldn't it have snapped off a lot of the antenna and Mast on top of the pilothouse as well.
@@josephwalther5979 damage all down the starbroard side of the bow
Mesh netting for bulkheads also
“The Captain wired in, he had water comin’ in, and the good ship and crew was in peril.”
Some of the most haunting lyrics you’ll hear in a song.
Soo many excellent lyrics to that song that evoke powerful imagery.
"The wind in the wire made a tattletale sound..."
"The dawn came late..."
"At 7:00 p.m. a main hatchway caved in, he said 'fellas it's been good to know ya' "
The melody to the song actually runs counter to the feel of it, not very good, and overly repetitive. But the instrumentation is so atmospheric, haunting as you say, and the lyrics, those powerful lyrics! With the exception of the completely unnecessary verse about the Great Lakes, which almost sounds like a tourist bureau advertisement, these are some of the most emotion-evoking lyrics I've ever heard, really getting to the essence of the event.
Yeah I always wondered why he threw that verse in. Otherwise a great song. I can close my eyes and envision what he’s singing.
“Does anyone know where the love of God goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?”
Man! That’s a heavy sense of forsakenness.
Like Christ on the Cross. 💔💔
@@alitlweird Great analogy
how is that haunting? wtf? is this some kind of joke???
could have been that way. a more popular belief is that she took a nose dive. most have dismissed the splitting in half on the surface theory.
sküll düggery I do believe this theory has to be correct. The Fitz had bottomed out near Caribou island which would explain the rails being down and some covers missing as well as the list and the flooding, to quote Cooper, “ he was pumping out as much as it was coming in “, he was also noted as saying that McSorley was I believe 9 feet off an uncharted shoal, and these boats always give off that jutering feeling all he needed was to just rupture a few tanks, if and when he probably did that would explain the flooding as well as the rail and covers being gone, Cooper was also quoted as saying two massive waves rolled up his stern, he figures those waves caught the Fitzgerald.
McSorley was making a run for it, be he ran out of time. “ It was quick and catastrophic “.
It would’ve hit him hard, with the weight of the flooding and possibly cargo shifting, with his list, it’s gonna put his bow down, and leaving 199ft of the Fitzgerald above the seas for the second wave, it also would explain the snap.
@@ZNZDerby - yeah, as in many a foundering, there were a lot of little irony's to this story: if they only had a fathometer (standard and required after this wreck). if only a 2 dollar fuse hadn't been faulty to make a backup generator do it's job and provide light on shore. if only the charts near the shoals were completely true and updated. if only cooper had been adamant in telling mcsorely his feelings about their proximity to the shoals...
sküll düggery I do have to disagree, he did tell McSorley he was 9 feet off, I feel like they both knew he was too close, but you have to understand you can’t panic your crew. Cooper even said McSorley sounded tired over the radio, but he never panicked his crew. You can’t do that in a storm like this. There’s no doubt in my mind that Cooper and McSorley knew he was to close and was possibly gonna run aground or rupture a few tanks, that’s why I believe McSorley was making a run for it, a run to whitefish bay.
@@ZNZDerby - i've heard the transcripts. i don't recall anything about 9 feet. i understand about the decorum between skipper's. you don't just bark at another- and if your ship is in peril, you'd never get on the radio and announce you MIGHT not make it. at any rate, yes, he was trying to make a run for whitefish and beach it there.
sküll düggery I might have been wrong on Cooper telling McSorley he was nine feet off but I do recall Cooper openly saying he was near nine feet off, and any master shouldn’t radio on your going down, Cooper even said he thought the Anderson was
Indestructible and if anything so did McSorley, he thought the Fitz was gonna get him down.
I’m lost for words, they must have been scared Beyond belief god bless them all
Most likely, they had little time to react, and couldn't do anything other than accept their fate. The ship had been flooding for a while, they had also been placed into a list (as you could hear in the video), and with how high the waves were (25 feet according to the Arthur M. Anderson) it was inevitable for the Fitz to go down, as heartbreaking as it was.
@AquaXracer Does this recording still exist??
they prob didnt see it coming. once it nose dived. they were fucked
@Luca uh, no. Not an actual recording. There are transcripts of the final communications from the captain: "We are holding our own." Then a few minutes later, the ship disappeared from radar. Nothing like that, no 'live mike' recordings like a voice cockpit recorder.
I live not far from where the Mighty Fitz went down. The waves on Lake Superior are monstrous at times. As a Commercial Fisherman, there were a few times when I questioned my sanity for going out on the water in such big waves.
"I think it was sudden and catastrophic; the ship just disappeared completely. If those seas were that big, they rolled up his deck, and he's got a list, then the water stays up in the forward cabin and put the bow down underwater. Once she started down, the screw just drove into the bottom."
If that was the case, the only comfort any of the family members could possibly have is that there was very little time for the men to realize that "this was the end" for them. I listened to a lecture from a man that visited and photographed the site and he mentioned a rope being tied on a rail or stantion of some type and that Mcsorsely was overheard telling his first mate not to allow anyone out on deck. Him having to give that order tells me that maybe some of the men were well aware of there situation and maybe they were trying to do something to increase there survival chances
“Once she started down, the screw just drove *her* into the bottom.” Thank you for captioning. Terrifying account.
yeah thats what he said
@@thomasdaniels6824 Good point,why would anyone have to give that order in terrible weather conditions.Nobody wants to be on deck when the seas are that rough...unless there was a reason they wanted to be on deck.
@@carsonpower5948 😂😂😂😂
By far, this is the most plausible explanation I've seen for the wreck, given the fact that the one lifeboat recovered was torn in half, how visibly dented the visor on the Pilot house is-though that could be from 45 years underwater and pressure-and that one of the bodies of the crew had been found inside the pilot house with their life vest on; it would all make sense.
All the dents and holes in the bow were discovered within a year of sinking, so you are correct about it hitting hard. No bodies in the pilot house, it's laying on the lake bed next to the bow.
@@danalarose846 have they found bodies around the bow
@@idontknowwhattosay2298 The 1994 expedition that found the first one would later state that 4 more had also been located, which would bring the total to 5. That would make it about the number of crew required to man a ships bridge.
@@deanladue3151 were the corpses recoevered
@@randomrazr as far as i know, no bodies were recovered from the wreck site. Add to the fact that a portion of the wreck is in Canadian waters, the Canadian Government refuses to permit anyone to go near the wreck site.
this is just one of those stories that never lets go of you. i was just a 10 year old kid in ‘75 but almost 50 years later and it’s still something that you want to just have not really happened.
My father was barely a teenager when this happened. I'm older now than he was then by about 10 years. But when I was just a early teen he showed me the song by Gordon Lightfoot and I've been fascinated by the story ever since and like you said it hasn't loosened it's grip even slightly between now and when I first heard the song. A truly terrifying event of folklore level proportions. Although it was very much a real and sad event.
I think it happened so fast that they didn’t suffer.She was due for a keel overhaul. She was tired and often overloaded. RIP Mariners
I mean, they probably knew they were going to die for at least a few seconds, and they likely drowned. So they still suffered mentally and physically quite a bit.
I know it's a feature of the English language, but saying "she" about a ship called Edmund sounds so weird
@@osasunaitor Call my car she all the time lol. If anything, it's a form of flattery. That we equate brilliant and hard working, often beautiful machines with women.
@@KB-bh9hp women shouldn't be viewed as that only. they are people, just a different look
@@suspicious-channel You don't say?
It was sudden. No mayday call was sent. Bow was very dented in. Sank
quick and fast.
Gordon Lightfoot says otherwise...
@@nam1esiw Gordon light foot wasn’t on the lake when it happened
@@milkers4013 I was, though. I saw it happen. It was sudden. No mayday call was sent. Bow was very dented in. Sank quick and fast.
They never stood a chance, it must have happened so fast
I believe this. The Fitz was 700 feet long. She sank in 500 feet of water.
Meaning 300ft of the ship was out of the water, and the waved were forcing the ships hatches till they caved in by pressure
729 ft.
I was making a point, not trying to be mathematically accurate. Guess that got lost on you.
729.16 ft., to be precise.
729.16 feet was the max allowable length and her width was the max allowable width allowed on the Great Lakes. Any larger and she wouldn't had fit the canal locks at the time. She was the largest ore ship on the Great Lakes until the iron hull ore ships surpassed her size I think around the time she sank.
Whatever happened, it happened quickly. RIP to all 29 souls and their loved ones.
“If Lake Superior wants you dead, you’re dead.”
“The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead
When the skies of November turn gloomy.”
That's the thing about the Fitzgerald that has captivated people for over 45 years: How could such a large ship go down without a mayday?
It went down so fast there was no time to call in a mayday, really sad must have been terrifying.
Imagine the sight from the wheel house if this animation is accurate. You’d be alive for a moment of it all.
imagine going to work like you had for 40 years and the last voyage before retirement you are suddenly 100 feet down and slamming forward into the glass as you feel pressure building to 500 feet down and crash. thats what keeps me out of stormy water.
I believe this theory, since there is a big hole on Edmund Fitzgerald’s starboard bow, she touches the sea floor, she splits. Her stern capsizes and sinks.
The Legend lives on from the Chippewa on down of the big lake they called Gitche Gumee.
The laws of physics would not allow this.
I worked in the legal industry for almost 30 years, and a lot of the time was spent on accident investigation. In order to determine cause, you don't start at the point of contact, but back in time, and in a very casual conversation with someone who had some knowledge, but not in an official capacity at all, when I asked his opinion, he replied to the effect of which side of the paycheck you were on. The Fitz was the first ship in its era at the great lakes ship building to have a pre-fabricated hull, and when they went to put it on, it didn't fit, so what they did was, "threw a bunch of welding rods in the hole, and then welded it shut -- also -- it was "spot welded" and not held together with "rivets." which is the same as airplanes -- and one of the crew from earlier sails said that when they hit the big waves, the ship would bounce up and down, like when you jump off a diving board, it would stay stiff, instead of bend into the wave, so exactly like the Titanic, the ship was doomed before it set sail. What's awful is they used to call the Fitz, the Titanic of the great lakes - also, what most people don't know, the Titanic was on fire when it left its initial port -- there was a coal fire which had been burning for almost two months before she left her docks, and some engineers speculate it helped to cause the metal to be brittle, with the hot coal in the pits, and the freezing sea water outside, and even if she had made it to America, the ship would have eventually sunk due to metal fatigue. Also, the captain of the Anderson reported the rogue wave, and it's something they call The Three Sisters -- the first wave, which is small, but big enough to break over your deck, and under normal circumstances the water would flow back into the sea, but before that happens, the larger second wave hits, and now the ship is flooded with the weight of both waves, and before that can leave, the third largest wave (which the Anderson capt. estimated at about 35 ft), when it hit the decks, there was no recovery, and probably went down exactly as this video depicts. The Anderson capt. says the thing that worried him the most was that those men on that ship didn't die immediately, they had time before hitting bottom -- There was one other investigation done in the early 2000's, and they concur the ship broke apart on the surface; that it wasn't because the hatches weren't locked into position -- another capt. testified that they'd been using that exact hatch lock since the 1940's, and that they weigh about 4,000 pounds each, and the most water that may seep under one that is not locked is a cup -- another mechanical engineer weighed in saying he believed the water was not coming in through the hatches, either, but that the bottom decks were flooded more than the two bilge pumps could handle, which caused the ship to list. Then, of course, there is criticism of the capt., who had the reputation of being a "rough sea" capt., had the knowledge how to sail in those type of conditions, but, that he didn't have the training and knowledge of how to predict the weather forward. When they set sail, the lake was calm and beautiful, then as it progressed is when the alerts were sent out. The capt. said in one radio call that he'd never seen anything like this in all of his 43 years of sailing. And, he did try everything he could. They clearly heard him tell another person in the pilot house not to let anyone out on the deck. The wind, which was hurricane force at some points, had taken out both of his radars. He called the coast guard, and they had no rescue planes in the area, which showed up 8 hrs. later -- and -- that the lighthouse and other navigational equipment was not working. The Anderson did all they could to help him navigate. Another "mistake" some say he made was to slow down and allow the Anderson to pass him -- it had been trailing about ten miles behind him throughout the voyage -- again, speculation, if he had kept his speed up, he may have made it to safety in Whitefish Bay. I don't know if there is anything "official," but many agreed there were two causes, the ship was not seaworthy when it left port, and the weather. The only positive thing, and these men's lives were not lost in vain, because stricter inspection regulations were put into place, and new safety regulations concerning lifeboats and sea survival suits (not the right name, but it's the bright orange ones. Sorry for the long-winded post.
Wow.
I would say you hit the nail on the head, what side of the paycheck were you on. Wasn't welded property, but what they had to go through is mind blowing, your comment got my attention, thanks.
@Biden Sucks That wasn't a rant. It was an acknowledgement of the incredible price every man on that ship paid. It changed safety regulations, with more inspection of the ships. Plus, the ship was overloaded. These men's families have suffered until their deaths in sorrow of the loss of their lives, that great loss was felt into the next generations, grandchildren those men would never teach to fish, hold in their arms. The ship was slated to go into dry dock for the thorough inspection, and someone up the line was worried it would not pass muster without expensive repairs, and they wouldn't get what in effect was their inspection sticker, and that the Fitz may not have been able to sail in the summer. These brave and tragic men's deaths were not in vain. There is no way to measure how many other lives their deaths may have saved, and shame on you to make any type of "funny" comment regarding this tragic event. These men did not die instantly. They died in fear, knowing the ship was doomed, and whether or not it broke apart on the ocean's surface or when it hit the lake floor, they were alive when it happened. The captain had ordered no man to be outside, and the rooms/areas they were in did not instantly flood. They felt the freezing cold water as it covered their bodies and eventually flooded their lungs. I've heard the testimony of many people who survived, and they all talked about how horrible it is; how painful it is. I hope no tragedy ever touches your life, and the lives of those you care about, But in the meantime show respect for the lives of those lost to the sea in this horrible event !!
@@davestratton460 I totally agree with you about what those men experienced. While so many things changed, annual ship inspections as opposed to the previous time period of several years. I want to say five, but I'm not sure that is correct. I hate using this example, and I absolutely do not mean any disrespect, but it's the same thing that happened with the Kobe Bryant helo crash. The Fitz was overloaded by several thousand pounds. It should have never left the dock, irrespective of the weather. And Kobe's helo should have never left the airport. Both captain and pilot should have stood firm against their employer, the Fitz being overloaded and Kobe's helo should not have flown in the fog. But I must acknowledge, it's easy for me to be a Monday morning quarterback. The loss of life will always be tragic, but the good that came from that great loss is immeasurable. Have a great evening, Patricia
Thanks for this story..very interesting..
Huge respect for the Anderson crew who went back out on the lake in the storm to look for the Fitz & any crew members. These are real mariners who actually look out for each other, and are the polar opposites of the Costa Concordia's Bridge Crew & Captain.
Dont forget the William clay ford
RIP the crew of the SS Edmund Fitzgerald
Captain Ernest M. McSorley (September 29, 1912 - November 10, 1975), aged 63
First Mate John H. McCarthy (July 14, 1913 - November 10, 1975), aged 62
Michael E. Armagost (October 14, 1938 - November 10, 1975), aged 37
Fred J. Beetcher (February 24, 1919 - November 10, 1975), aged 56
Thomas D. Bentsen (January 10, 1952 - November 10, 1975), aged 23
Edward F. Bindon (January 7, 1928 - November 10, 1975), aged 47
Thomas D. Borgeson (November 26, 1934 - November 10, 1975), aged 41
Oliver J. Champeau (September 4, 1934 - November 10, 1975), aged 41
Nolan S. Church (July 13, 1920 - November 10, 1975), aged 55
Ransom E. Cundy (April 16, 1922 - November 10, 1975), aged 53
Thomas E. Edwards (February 28, 1925 - November 10, 1975), aged 50
Russell G. Haskell (May 19, 1935 - November 10, 1975), aged 40
George J. Holl (March 11, 1915 - November 10, 1975), aged 60
Bruce L. Hudson (September 10, 1953 - November 10, 1975), aged 22
Allen G. Kalmon (February 7, 1932 - November 10, 1975), aged 43
Gordon F. MacLellan (August 2, 1945 - November 10, 1975), aged 30
Joseph W. Mazes (February 13, 1916 - November 10, 1975), aged 59
Eugene W. O'Brien (July 17, 1925 - November 10, 1975), aged 50
Karl A. Peckol (September 6, 1955 - November 10, 1975), aged 20
John J. Poviach (June 6, 1916 - November 10, 1975), aged 59
James A. Pratt (January 29, 1931 - November 10, 1975), aged 44
Robert C. Rafferty (June 16, 1913 - November 10, 1975), aged 62
Paul M. Riippa (August 15, 1953 - November 10, 1975), aged 22
John D. Simmons (August 25, 1913 - November 10, 1975), aged 62
William J. Spengler (September 11, 1916 - November 10, 1975), aged 59
Mark A. Thomas (August 14, 1954 - November 10, 1975), aged 21
Ralph G. Walton (July 22, 1917 - November 10, 1975), aged 58
David E. Weiss (November 13, 1953 - November 10, 1975), aged 22
Blaine H. Wilhelm (August 12, 1923 - November 10, 1975), aged 52
Gone but not forgotten.
I've heard that maintenance wasn't very regularly performed on The Fitz so that would seem to play a role somehow. They were interested in keeping the record hauls going.
Like titanic
Thank you Mr. Lightfoot for the years and years of your songs..they just seem to fit any mood you're in .this one and so, so many others...some that never got played on the radio...
I guess that's what Gordon Lightfoot meant by "Does anyone knows where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours."
That animation didn't show what he was describing.
bye Edmund Fitzgerald🚢😭
The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald by Gorden Lightfoot is a hauntingly, beautiful song that will keep her memory alive forever!
That song is the reason that I’ve even heard of the Ed Fitz
Gordon*
@@alsimmons993 I was 14 when the EF sank. I remember it was all over the news.
James Cameron should do a film on this.
He would need permission from the Canadian government , but he is Canadian so he might have an advantage .
@@northlander4370 As well as from the families, shipping company, on & on & on...honestly can't ever see it happening.
The ending would be like The Perfect Storm.
You’d have to make up what happened on the ship before the storm.
Nobody survived to tell what happened.
Since the ship was 729 feet long and it sank in about 530 feet of water, wouldn't that have meant as the bow of the ship hit the bottom, a portion of the ship was still sticking out of the water until it broke and sank? Since the length of the ship was longer than the depth of water it sank in. So terrible and sad.
Yes
Yes, it's likely she plowed into the bottom and snapped her keel on impact. There was literally no saving her and no chance for anyone to call for help. There one second, gone the next.
By the time the bridge went underwater, the pressure of the water imploded the bridge and it flooded. This is likely the case because the door to the bridge is wide open on the wreck. All her electrical telegraphs were in the STOP position meaning that someone likely switched the engines to all stop before she completely sank. Likely because the ship was not going to make it. Other than that, nothing else is known about the crew's fate. It's unfortunate how much is not known.
I live on the Gulf of Mexico and I have been in as much as 15 ft seas which is about half the Fitzgerald was experiencing and our swells are longer, and I have been on a boat that has bottomed out too. When I experienced smacking a shoal between swells, the water for a few instants was very shallow and the force was severe. My thinking is that McSorley got too close to Caribou Island and between some of those swells, he smack the bottom and broke the back (keel) of the boat and the boat continued on damaged and McSorley knew the ship was damaged by the vents but didn't know how bad. I think he was keeping a cool head and the ship had taken on too much water and the pilot house dove into a wave and didn't come up. I don't think the ship broke between swells. At one point the bow plowed into the bottom of the lake and the physics of momentum with the stern sticking out of the water fractured the hull and I doubt the idea of the screw driving the ship down is a good story but not reality. When the bow hit the bottom and the stern sticking out of the water, the momentum separated the two parts and the stern sank, period, on it's topside. I think Fitzgerald would have survived the storm without smacking the shoals. I think waves tore off radar antenna cable connections too. I think the report of the USCG was a disgrace blaming the clamps. You can see on photos of the wreck that many covers imploded by water pressure and were sucked into many of the holds otherwise the bottom would have been littered by steel hold covers.
Gosh, thank you for your post. I can't cite a specific report, but if my recall is correct, underwater teams were able to see evidence/damage, it did hit the bottom. As I said, I can't refer you to where I got that information, but I believe it's accurate, and your explanation makes a lot of sense. Accidents with loss of life will occur in every mode of transportation on this planet, including pedestrians walking down a sidewalk. As awful as this was, improvements were made within the industry with the goal of preventing this type of accident from occurring. And also, as you suggests about hitting the bottom, I read somewhere I cannot cite, but that the charts the capt. Was relying on were incorrect, and while he may have believed he was going towards safety, the opposite happened. I have zero nautical experience or education, so my comment may be wrong, but I think I also read where the bottom is not static, and the sands will actually shift positions. If that's incorrect, please correct me.
Again, thanks for posting using your own experience. Kind regards, Patricia
Searay. 350 sundaer 16 foot waverr v drive shallow water draft
Few years back there was a similar gale on the big lake. They ordered and all craft warning. We were on the west side of the Keweenaw and there were 40 footers, but they said up on the Canadian side the waves were peaking at 60-70 foot! I don't see how any ship could possibly survive that....everything is a little bug on the big water when she turns ugly.
I've never heard of an all ship warning... but on those lakes I can believe it. I don't think anyone who hasn't seen the Great Lakes has any idea how big they really are... or how nasty they can be.
We had a bad one in 2010 on Lake Michigan in October. It was nuts. But the one in 75 was even worse by all accounts...
I will forever be haunted by the way the Fitzgerald went down
Thalassophobic nightmare fuel.
"Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn minutes to hours?"
Rest in peace and God bless all.
Mate, the love of God is there here too, in death and destruction too
Answer : it goes to Jamaica cause the temperature is great over there He's been told.
“And all that remains is the faces and the names of the wives and the sons and the daughters.”
Pretty sure God wrote those guys off.
I remember when that song was released. I grew up near Detroit and sailed a lot on Lake Erie so it meant something to me when the Fitz went down. The song still gives me a catch in my throat even after hearing it many times.
Thanks for sharing !!
Last words recorded from the Edmund Fritzgerald: ‘We’re holding our own.’
That's very accurate if you look at the ship split point u can see it
However it happened: it was a very tragic thing for all involved! Sad… praying for those left behind!🙏🙏😢
My god those who where in the back of the ship hit the bottom in like 5 seconds and its 160 m down.. That insane water pressure
The Great Lakes can be deadly just like the open seas.
That has to be the most plausible way the ship sank!
This is exactly what I believe happened. The Anderson and other ships had reported three consecutive rogue waves, and with the Queen already having a list, it was basically game over. The only difference in my personal theory is that it was the bow smashing into the bottom that snapped her spine and broke her in three right then and there. No chance of escape, no warning, no time to call for help. All over in a matter of seconds.
Absolutely most accurate portrayal of what happened from the man that was in the same storm 10 clicks behind him ✝️🇺🇸🙏
How powerful was the storm?
@@palmerochs2989 it was unbelievable, even living on lake michigan Michigan as I was at that time. You can google the specifics of it.
11 meter wavs
She snapped in half quickly there was no time to get the lifeboats ready or send an mayday call
@Eric Aung then why did they find 1 lifeboat All Ships need lifeboats I think there was exactly two lifeboats on that ship for each crew member and Captain
@Eric Aung idk the number of lifeboats
She broke up underwater. Not on the surface
@@Animated_Cinema 2 lifeboats, they're in the soo, on the ship museum valleycamp.
I wouldn't have mattered. Those 20-30 foot waves would've crushed or sanked those life boats.
I think this is the way we lost the mighty Fitz.
Those boy's had those hatches dogged down the proper way because they knew they was heading into weather...it's November on the great lakes...every Captain knows better.
I've heard that the "screws drove her straight down" a million times and while this animation does an interesting job visualizing how she possibly sank it's got some ridiculously back-breaking "physics" going unmentioned @ 0:14-0:16 then depicts the screws as literally airborne for virtually every critical moment during the sinking (and look how high the back end "floats" above the "waterline" even after the breakup...)
Yep... and with an LOA of 728" and a water depth of 530", the bow, in the animation, was already dug in on the bottom while the stern was in the air. It doesn't look like the prop drove anything.
@@michaelfields8793 ...and the stern looks like it's simulated as still floating when well above where they simulate the waterline. (btw, do you know if they captained those lake freighters from the forward or rear superstructures when in open water? I always imagine them having the whole ship laid out ahead of them but I forget how those ships had the tall forward structure and what it might have been like to be in THERE instead...)
@@llYossarian The Fitz was front.
@@JohnA891 Thank you!
@@JohnA891 That makes much more sense. I thought it was weird when he said the screw drove her down in the same moment the stern was up in the air according to the animation.
Jeez, imagine dying like that!
Next year is the 50th anniversary of the tragic loss of a great ship and a brave crew
"they might have split up, or they might have capsized, they may have broke deep and took water, all that remains are the faces and the names of the wives and the sons and the daughters" 😔
My teacher and the class were talking about the Edmund Fitzgerald sinking we got to listen to the song
I'm glad I'm not the only person to experience this lol, same thing happened to me (I can assure you it was NOT your class! 😂)
I think the song is what made this incident so well known, probably the second most known shipwreck in general public awareness after Titanic.
This is definitely how she sank
I first read about the Edmund Fitzgerald in Reader's Digest decades back. Sad to think that ship sank in a few seconds being battered by huge waves. A long and slender ship like this would flex with each wave. The steel can only stand so much flexing until the hull completely fractured
was the Edmund longer than the length of its wreck? like if it was upright would it stick out?
That’s exactly what I was asking too. I think so, that the bow of the ship hit the bottom while part of it was still upright until the whole ship broke apart. So sad.
The boat did not go vertical cuz when the boat hit the bottom it bended with me stress in the middle which caused the break
That was scary, and brutal
Oh my God😶 0:17
I believe the frequency and amplitude of those waves was a little exaggerated. Lakers RARELY if ever suspend their midsection in midair between waves. I remember in 1975-76 during the investigation, one of the theories had her breaking in half from the stress of having 250 feet of a hull full of 26,000 tone of taconite total unsupported.
At the time, that explanation seemed plausible to me - until I learned more about the ships and hydrodynamics. So the verdict is that you can do this with a toy in a bathtub, but not with a 730-foot long steel ship - even with 18-foot following seas.
This animation correctly shows her breaking in half due to the a 45 degree nosedive, the resulting shift in cargo forward, and the relative lack of strength the midsection of the hull had when 6,000 or 7,000 tons of engine, galley, crew quarters and the rest of the stern headed for the bottom came to a sudden stop when the bow dug into the lakebed. What did Newton say? A mass in motion tends to stay in motion until the bow stops and the stern collapses 200 or so feet of the midsection like tin foil.
But I digress. Wave frequency int he Lakes is much shorter than on an ocean, but not as long as this animation showed -- at least when coupled with 25-foot waves that night.
Regardless, props to whomever created this animation. Any interest at all in the Fitz, especially when done with respect, gets a big thumbs up from me. Thanks all.
Yes! The vertical scale is greatly exaggerated with respect to the horizontal dimensions. No ship could survive with that much of her hull out of the water. The concept of the 'three sisters' might be viable but the animation doesn't help. The hull had already taken on water and the lack of buoyancy would have also reduced the ability of the foredeck and bow to come back up. The movement of this water forward would have also been a decrement.
I think this animation likely captures what truly happened to the Fitz.
My Mother Was Born On 1974 Before The Lake Freighter Sank In November 10, 1975, During A Storm, I Still Think The Big Fitz Would Still Lay In The SeaFloor This Day, And Rest In Peace 29 Crew Members.
to be in that wheelhouse...it would be like a car crashing into a brick wall ...instant and merciful. the crew aft well..that's a different horror. I remember that night at home watching the news. I was 9yrs old. RIP to the lost 29.
Imagine your in the engine room till suddenly, the room your in Moves skyward and quickly floods
The people in the wheel house probably didn't die instantly.
They never had a chance
I just find it astonishing that not one of the 29 crew survived.
Looking at this sinking animation, and how huge those waves are, survival doesn't look very likely. Lifeboats would be nearly useless in such conditions (modern enclosed ones would have better chances, but at the time they were still open to my understanding) not to mention no way of launching them even if they did know the ship would sink. But this happened probably in less than a minute.
Also from what I’ve heard the Anderson had 5 bulkheads, whereas the Fitz only had three, making her more susceptible to twisting and hogging. The Fitz battled hard, but with water coming in and her hull flexing under the immense waves, she finally just couldn’t take it. God rest the men on board and their families.
Mesh netting for bulkheads
Yes. Bit now Boston whaler 1975. Boston shell unskilled boats
I agree, the screw was still turning when it hit the bottom, remember, she is longer than the depth of the water she finally rests in.
I've stood safely along lake Erie s shores witnessing big waves before. I can't fathom what being on the water in a boat would feel like
Buy big as ship
Team ss edmund Fitzgerald😢😢❤
👇🏿
I can't believe this got all the way through production to finished product and nobody realised they'd shown the bow resting upside upside down... 🤦
Highly exaggerated animation, admittedly done for illustrative purposes... but nowhere close to reality. The waves would have to be 200 feet high for this animation to be accurate.
I was thinking those waves don't seem plausible - I couldn't imagine the ship passing through such huge waves without breaking in half even before hitting bottom.
“She was there at the dock when the lines cast off
And the _Fitz_ got underway.
The sun shown down as her wake trailed out
On that cold November day.
When she wrapped her cloak over ship and crew,
When the winds began to roar.
Every man onboard tightened down their souls
Far from the Michigan shore.
McSorely, true, telephoned the crew
When the storm was setting in,
“Better hold on tight through this day and night
Of straight line killer winds.
Forty four years I have met these storms,
When Northeastern gales have blown,
But oh, these mountains on Superior
Are the worst I’ve ever known.”
Who hears a prayer when the wind strikes down,
And the seas boil into foam?
When the waves cap off and are blown away,
And you’re miles away from home?
Who hears a cry when the north wind roars,
And the crew are pitched to the rail?
As the great ship rolls and the church bell tolls
For those lost in the gale.
When he first saw her, we’ll never know;
On the deck awash, or the bridge.
He must have known when the _Fitz_ would groan
And the bow began to pitch.
When she came for the crew and McSorely too,
As the _Fitz_ rose up no more,
“Oh Lady of the Storms, you won this year,
But I bested you for forty four!”
I agree with your theory,same as I imagined.
BRO I TURN THE VIDEO SPEED 2X AND THE MAN WAS TALKING FAST😭
If that water is 500 feet deep I think those waves are a little bit big
Superior, they say, never give up her dead,
When the skies of November turn gloomy.
I would agree with this theory 100%.
The Edmund Fitzgerald the lake freighter that sunk in 1975
The animation doesn't square with the verbal description...
The waves Where too strong for her The Edmund Fitzgerald Rest and peace Edmund 1975
you wouldnt even know you are dying until the windows break and lights go out and pressure of deep water hits you then the freezing and violent rush to the bottom. what would you be thinking as walls of black water spins your world and furnature and broken pieces of the bridge or mess or bunks wash over you? alarms going off or just sudden vertical shift of filing cabnets desks windows and doors slamming.
That's why u need bigger boats
Spent a week kayaking along the Lake Superior coast in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Took a day trip to the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum in Paradise, MI which is one of the most interesting museums I've ever been to. One of the many shipwreck displays containing artifacts and such is the Edmund Fitzgerald which takes up the whole corner of the interior. The shipwreck itself took place there at Whitefish Bay which is the site of the most shipwrecks on all the Great Lakes
Ive been to the GLSM as well..it is well worth the trip.
Will be going up there in a few months. I want to swim in Gitche Gumee and pay my respects to the 29 souls who lost their lives their in 75.
God bless those men. Never forget the Fitz. I work on boats and I pray that if I'm ever in that situation that God makes my suffering short and helps to ease my mind. God speed boys God speed.
I'm frankly not seeing how "the screw just drove her into the bottom" when, in this simulation, her screw is 50-200' in the air before, during, and after her bows are already on the bottom. It would have just been spinning air and not driving anything at that point. Her length is longer than the depth-of-water in which she sank (or at least it was before the break).
Am I missing something?
The only consolation I can think is they must have been dead before they realized what happened.
They likely would have known, having your ship go underwater, and keep sinking, they would know they were about to die.
What documentary is this from?
It's most likely true. The ship folling the Fitzgerald said they could see their lights one second and just disappeared.
i always thought of the opposite. wave took over the bridge and plunged it face first into the bottom where it broke. intriging to see the reverse of ly long held view.
Shit....I've seen this before long long time ago. What program/documentary is this from? I
@KrispyKrackers88 YES!!! That's it!!!! Thank you! I actually found it shortly after I posted the comment. I still can't believe I remember that far back when Discovery Channel and History Channel were GOOD.
This animation is incorrect. The Fitzgerald’s course put the waves on their starboard stern quarter, not directly aft.
Horrifying way to go man!
I wonder what software was used for this animation
Weird that there was never a mayday call from Fitz. Whatever truly happened to her must've of happened to fast for the crew to react.
I think this animation is the best depiction of what happened. They said that the ship sank so quickly that there was no time to escape so it must have happened really quick.
A nearby ship said that they were once looking at the Fitzgerald from a distance and the next second, it’s lights went out immediately. 🫡 god bless the men on the Fitzgerald they are not forgotten.
The only problem I have is the point of break up. The Fitz was so overloaded, I believe that's she broke as the bow went under and hadn't yet reached the bottom.
oh my god it just touchs the bottom the lake is not that deep
The boat was 724 ft long it was the longest vessel
If a massive storm knocked out their radar, their ability to see, and the Fitz bottom out, rupturing some water tight compartments, flooding badly. Then being battered by wave after wave, and then a couple massive waves, was enough to send the Fitz straight to the bottom. It must have happened so fast that nobody had enough time to react, call for help, or get off the ship. I suppose, anybody in the wheel house was more apparent of what's about to happen, but most below deck probably didn't know until the last minute. Rip
All the men were doomed, even if they made it into the water they were all dead men.
26,000 tons of iron ore on board. She most have sank like a stone...
I`m no expert. But she broke at 520 feet from the bow and sits 520 feet down. Wheel house is battered. Visors bent. All surface damage from masive wave action. Doubt wheel house crew were alive before she dived down. Tons of water would have swept them downstairs or out the doors taking that pounding. I would expect the glass in the wheel house to be mostly busted out or busted in.
My grandfather was the Edmund Fitzgerald~
The wind in the wires made a tattletale sound
when the wave broke over the railing