It was a quote he got from his brother Larry Cullen. A Vietnam veteran who wanted him to voice a hero kids would look up to, not like the typical action hero of the 80s.
With a bit of self awareness and dignity, the modern mary sue "strong independent woman" archetype can be used as a pretty effective villainess: a misandrist, slightly misogynist, power obsessed narcissist who is nigh omnipotent and laughs at the face of silly emotions like love and vulnerability. She will never stop showing off her powers and will always make it a point to boast about her superiority, and she doesn't get close to anyone who wouldn't spend all of their time singing her praises and constantly affirming how tough and badass she is.
This is great, honestly! It could also be great for a main character to be that way, but through different interactions, they grow into a better person. It makes a great foil between the antagonist and protagonist and separates the two, making the protagonist's story meaningful when you realize how far they have come.
@@Just_Judah Thank you! I realized that in shows, movies, books, etc.; men typically get the chance to go from being a shitty person into a much better person. They get to have that character development and become loved. In today’s stories, the women don’t get a chance at that. I love seeing strong female characters, but they must have a personality other than what the OP comment described. Then, that behavior is praised or ignored. So why can’t that flawed behavior be shown to be a bad thing that can elevate the story if it wasn’t ignored?
For me Mulan is a great strong female character she's disguising as a soldier not to prove strength but because she wants to save her father and because she wanted to prove them that she also brings honour to the family and shes getting strong because shes training Kim possible is also a great example
Hell yeah! Mulan isn't fighting specifically to prove how she's better than the boys, she's literally trying to save her family and bring them honor. And you really feel it when you watch her train to bring herself up in strength. It's really inspiring! As for Kim Possible, I always thought it was really cool how Ron Stoppable was the sidekick to Kim and although not as physically smooth or capable as Kim, he's not totally weak and is useful regardless of being the assistant and not the main hero. Loved when he started learning martial arts too!
@@learningwithlailaOf course they didn’t forget or else they wouldn’t have attempted to reboot it. They used the remake as an opportunity to make their warped worldview a STATEMENT that women can have the same physical and leadership capabilities as men which is laughable.
I think the reason why I dislike modern mary sue political agenda characters is that they are the type of character, that used to be the villain An effortlessly overpowered narcissist, obsessed with her own supremacy who has no empathy toward others but expects everyone to praise her
I totally agree with this. They're taking personality traits we would normally attribute to a character negatively and calling them a hero because they're female. There's countless positive examples of strong women in media that don't behave that way!
To actually make a strong female character actually seems pretty simple, but is made unnecessarily overcomplicated. You got to treat that character like making any other character, which involves things like giving them personality and making them likeable
@@Just_Judah I'm not sure if you heard about this but a lot of games developed in the West suffers from Mary Sue syndrome as well as the "uglification" of female characters. They purposely making female video game characters ugly but when we see their life models, they're gorgeous. Why do they give them the "Butch" treatment?
@@ravenloh6677 It's crazy you mentioned that, I literally just watched a video on that subject a few days ago. They're legit purposefully making the female characters look as unconventional as possible. It's super weird!
@@Just_Judah The question is "Are they doing this discourage heterosexuality or doing this to make other women feel better because they resented the popular pretty girls?"
@@ravenloh6677 I feel like it's the latter really. There's tons of chiseled, handsome video game characters but all they've done is inspire me to do better. I feel like those developers are kinda salty at the attractive female video game characters and decide to make them ugly instead.
Avatar the Last Airbender has greatly written women, and I love it. Katara is the stereotypical motherly figure, addionally she was given moments to be strong. Toph is the "tomboy" like character, she is lovable and powerful despite being blind. She was also given lower points. Azula is a great example of a girlboss, she is menacing and capable, but she was given moments where she was vulnerable. There are more great examples, but the show has great female characters!
Avatar the Last Airbender is exceptional at writing diverse examples of both women and man. It doesn't treat people as monoliths, but as individuals and I LOVE IT.
@@Just_Judahall this video stems from is just viewing one-self to a high-pedestal of setting a higher set of perceived standards that gets determined in its absolute form of truth to what it should & shouldn't be as; your context cues regarding Rey being a 'mArY sUe' is the epitome of that & it's not just yourself but ppls overall perception and lack of understanding... i agree with the sentiment of your arguments regarding what's a 'Mary Sue' but that just ultimately boils down to whatever I've elaborated above; also you can have a female character project whatever the things that transpired in her life to treat men differently & not females because of some generalisations and differentiations a female character can have, to which you argued that you can have something like this but the character apparently NEEDs to always treat everyone the same which includes males; you're still revelling and believing in the same sentiment to which you were arguing against by how if a Female character has exceptional standards of treating ppl based on gender then that's poor writing or how you stated that all it does justly or in its absolute form of truth is that 'fEmalE gUd & mAlE bEd'... Gender Essentialism/Generalisation in its literal form of manner is a horrible mindset to have in any pieces of medium which includes critiquing, creating etc.
i don't understand how modern disney writers get "strong female characters" confused with "light yagami from death note but with none of the self awareness"
I'm a woman and an artist, i prefer drawing male protagonists more than females. I also treat them equally, if a lady is being a perv, she's gonna get her ass handed to her and vice versa lol
@@P-P-Panda I drew a little comic where a girl was peeping at a naked guy in the school shower room, and she got yeeted through the window of the fourth floor lmao
@@tamatebako_ytwell, it’s pretty easy to look in the wrong places as the people in the wrong places are often really loud and because of the superficial similarities between videos like the one we are in right now and the crazy right wingers, recommendations often take you to those places Don’t you just love how easy it is to fall into ideological and political rabbit holes because of how recommendations work?
@@loganredding1621I can agree I watched a few videos on game being bad then I came across this video of a guy ranting about why games now aren’t manly or to cute because liberals and my solution to his problem play those grittier games than complaining about the lack of those game
It always weirded me out how often people write female characters' whole existence as "overcoming societal expectations and stuff and stuff". They're intentions are to defeat misogyny yet it itself comes off as misogynistic by presenting us like our only reason to exist is to break gender norms. Like you can write commentary on gender norms and also write these characters as people instead of reducing everything to their gender.
@@zetafish7347 That's how I feel about novels written by and about Arab Muslim women. It's always about us being misunderstood and having to defend ourselves against stereotypes and how we're "oppressed" and mistreated and so on and so on... and I'm just like "so we can only exist in stories if we're shown as the token inclusive character or to combat stereotypes about our culture and religion? We can't just have nice and simple every day stories where the main character is an authentic, non-westernized Muslim???"
To me the difference between an actual strong female character and a Mary Sue is that the former doesn't have to constantly tell you how strong she is. She just shows you. Actions over words makes all the difference.
I wholeheartedly agree. All my favorite strong female characters growing up were constantly doing badass things and never even addressed the fact that they were female. They were strong and badass because of their actions, behavior and the way they carried themselves, not because they told you over and over again.
Another instance of the "Show, Don't Tell" rule. When writers respect their audience enough to trust that we can infer things from hints, instead of having to be blatantly told everything, you can have better quality writing with more subtlety and nuance. So writing in a Mary Sue could technically be considered an indirect insult to the intelligence of the audience. Or maybe the writers are just straight up being lazy.
They rely on physical strength being the "strong" and completely ignore the mental strength Ripley talking to her literal bosses in the beginning of Aliens. It takes some serious mental strength and fortitude to look at them and YELL at them. "Goddamnit that's NOT all! If one of these things gets to earth, this, all this BULLSHIT is GONE!"
Thank you so much for saying that! That's exactly how I wanted to come across. It's not that I wanna bash the people who make those bad archetypes, it's that I just wanna call out what's wrong with it while praising what I think is done correctly!
Simple test: if a character was to lose most of their strength and power, would they still be interesting and able to progress in some way? If the answer is no, then it's probably a bad character. Also, there's nothing wrong with being saved from time to time, figuratively or not. Being saved does not mean a character is weak, it means others care about them enough in the first place to save them. That is far more precious than raw strength alone. Some say being able to seek help is also a fundamental part of strength as well.
Bingo! That's it right there. If you took away the strength and power, the character should still be someone you are invested in watching or reading about. And you also bring up a great point with the whole "being saved is bad" thing. It happens to all sorts of characters and it doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong with them, nor does it make them weak. Like when Luffy tries to save Ace in One Piece during the Summit War of Marineford.
Strong female character that’s well written is Revi from the black lagoon. She has to be tough because that is how she had to be to survive her trauma growing up. I also love Ororou Monroe Storm because you see her strength and vulnerability. Amazing video.
Japan seems to write strong female characters for over the last 50 years better than Hollywood has over the past 10 years alone, though not always. Just look at what Hollywood did with their adaptation of Ghost in the Shell, a Japanese animation property. The times that Japan does fail at creating strong female characters properly are mostly in shounen series such as Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, and My Hero Academia (to an extent).
@@grahamdamberger7130 I like a few of the female characters in Bleach and One Piece, but I would definitely say Naruto and My Hero have done a lot of their female cast a disservice.
More writers should look to Arcane as to how to write women correctly. These women are the fucking shit. They have multiple layers. They can take a punch and throw it right back, regardless of it’s verbal or physical. But they also have many low points they have to work through. They’re amazing and more people should take note.
@@Just_Judah Make the rainy day come sooner and you could totally do a video on it. It does diversity correctly and actually gives each character so much depth and nuance.
Honestly this is why Sailor Moon is one of my Role Models. Yes she is a moon princess and a sailor scout that fights evil but she is also a teenager that deals with highschool, boys, friends, etc and she is known as a cry baby but when needs to can nut up and beat ass. She lets you see yourself in her and see that yes, even one of the most powerful beings in the universe can show emotion, break down, fail even but they will always come back stronger because they truly care and their driving force is to protect, not show off or be omnipotent.
This is an amazing breakdown as to why Sailor Moon is such an iconic character in this regard. She easily shows the dichotomy of everything involved with being a strong, powerful heroine while still having her soft, girly side without coming off as elitist or all powerful. Her & the other sailor scouts have their own plights and personalities that separate them from one another but they embrace all sides of femininity while embodying strength. Sailor Mars was always my crush out of the bunch growing up.
@@Just_Judah Sailor Jupiter has always been a fav for me other than Sailor moon. I loved how they met and that Usagi wasnt scared of her at all and just thought her food looked really good and treated her like a person, not her reputation.
Morgiana (Magi) was and will always be someone I admire along with Suigintou, Morte (Sands of Destruction), Tenten, Yakumo Kurama, Kurenai Yuhi, Lucy (Fairy Tail), Hinamori even Orihime & Hinata
Yeah, its cool that she's the standard Shonen protagonist with the only difference being gender, she reminds a bit of the way Ichigo was in bleach, which also has a lot of well written female characters like Unohana, Rukia, Yoruichi
Ellen ripley was so good because of her flaws and fear, this is what gave her the strength and courage needed to fight off the perfect organism. Not like a certain rey skywalker who just does things.
Sarah Connor kinda fits in this category too. In the second movie she's portrayed as a badass, but she is also so affected by her trauma that when she's not lashing out she's staying distant and trying not to feel anything, because if she does she knows she's gonna break down. It all comes to a head when she goes off to kill Miles Dyson, the person she holds responsible for creating Skynet. She has him at gunpoint and is yelling at his kid to get out of the way when Sarah realizes that she's becoming an unreasonable, emotionless, remorseless killer hellbent on ending one individual's life. Just like a Terminator. The dam bursts and she breaks down. It is an excellently acted and directed scene, and I don't think it get talked about enough.
@@pyronuke4768 That scene is SOOOO crazy. Like you can see just how much she doesn't wanna harm him, especially in front of his wife and kids. But that weight on her shoulders of trying to choose one life over the fate of the world is heartbreaking. She's totally overwhelmed in the situation as anyone would be! One of my favorite scenes in the film because of how deeply you can feel the pressure.
The whole "Hating Strong Women" argument is so disingenuous. Every man who grew up in the 80s & 90s loves Ellen Ripley and Sarah Conner to varying levels.
Accusing people of being disingenuous while making a disingenuous argument(the idea that liking two strong female characters from decades ago is proof that you only hate "poorly written characters" is very disingenuous and something that no one with even a basic level of critical thinking skills would fall for) adds an extra layer of obnoxiousness. Thanks for that
@@isaacyeon6334 No but the argument that you like two characters from decades ago so you aren't against strong female characters makes no sense. It's among the dumbest anti-SJW talking points
I like Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley from t-2 judgement and aliens also Ororo Monroe and Rogue also Black Cat also catwoman and princess Leah let's not forget Shaina of ophiuchus strong female characters all of them and well written too
It can basically be boiled down to making your female character human. I don’t see the nurturing as essential tbh. I’m female but definitely no nurturing personality and while I do not enjoy the poorly written girl bosses out there, I do enjoy female characters who’re flawed, realistic and neither a superhuman a*hole nor a typical nurturer, I am sick of both portrayals of women.
Exactly, I totally agree. If a character feels human and like a real person that can exist, then it helps with overall characterization. I also agree that not all women are inherently nurturing. So it's okay for a character not to be while still not being a total jerk either.
I agree not all women are nurturing they can definitely be the far more selfish of the genders without their traditionally redeeming graceful and loving hearts and there is no in between.
@@arnowisp6244 they are. Never said anything against it, but to portray ALL women as either one or the other is unrealistic and unrelatable because, despite gender, people come in facets.
I'm so happy that you included jojo's bizarre adventure woman in this video. I've always liked araki and the way he wrote women in his works. It's so rare to see anyone include his works in this type of video analysis. also, the segment where you mentioned creating a power system can be used to overcome any different physical attributes between men and women, I immediately thought of araki and then you quoted his words right after 😭
The man is a genius lol he writes characters in general so well, but he has a specialty when it comes to writing women. I think a lot of shonen authors and authors in general could learn a lesson or two from his influence!
true for example erina the 1st jojo heroine, she might not strong in battle but I really admire her strong mentality, like washing her mouth with mud water after being kissed by Dio, nursing jonathan for entire night after his house destroyed, being single parent for her son and grandson
@@kolapsg7748 Being kind to Smokey after Joseph befriends him, treating Suzi Q well, helping to care for the baby that would grow up to become Lisa Lisa. She has quite the list of accomplishments that not only showcase her true kindness, but her overall importance to the future of the JoJo's timeline.
I feel like even with these Mary Sue characters, they can be entertaining to watch or read about if they're sufficiently likable or charming in some way. This especially applies to the realm of fanfiction and writing for fun where you're not too concerned with the proper storytelling techniques and narratives and just wanna have a blast and that's fine too. Ultimately, what I took away from this video is that we need more female characters of different strokes. That seems like it should be easy enough given that they're almost half our population, so long as the writers aren't blinded by their prejudice.
Absolutely agree. I've seen a few Mary Sue characters in recent years that are entertaining because they're written in a fun way. I just dislike when a Mary Sue is written to be taken seriously when there's better depictions of characters out there that you could easily enjoy more. There's so many different women with unique walks of life. It shouldn't be that difficult to develop a character more than just "Strong, independent, better than everyone at everything, makes no mistakes, hates men" lol
It depends on the context of the story, and whether or not the Character is the main focus of the story. There are plenty of Mary Sue type Characters that are well received, in part because the journey isn't theirs. Metroman in "Megamind" could be considered a Mary Sue Character, but because he isn't the focus of the story, and thus not about his Journey, him being OP and well liked by just about everyone isn't a negative factor to his character. In fact, it's used to boost the story of the Main Character, who has been pushed down and reviled his whole life in the shadow of a perfect person. And this is yet another point in "Megamind's" favor. There are likely other instances where they can work, but this is my focus.
I based myself on antiheroes and I see that I can make a badass or crazy girl but that she is for the most identifiable reasons, sad, tragic or shady, so she is an intriguing but intense character, and not only is she rude but also suffers misfortune and sad deep down
@@dustinwashburn1283 Even then, Metroman only succeeds because of his two major flaws/mistakes. He first lets everybody else rule his life, and then he abandons the world to its fate when they need him the most. Both being the very same mistakes Megamind makes in the movie. If he hadn't made any mistakes, he would have sucked.
*looks to "Prince" vegeta, endig up, henpecked by Bulma* rriiiight.... (joke aside ^^ Bulma is strong, but more character strong, than rare phisical brute power ^^ )
"Being the strongest, most capable character in the story tells us a character IS strong. . . but not WHY the character is strong. It lacks the proper depth and writing for what makes a good character in general. Because you can't make a strong character without making a good character first." Welp. . . it's like Doug Walker said in his 2016 review of the 2015 live-action remake of 1950's Cinderella: "While having a strong character is good, it's more important to have them INTERESTING first."
Honestly summed up like what hayao miyazaki said (if i remember correctly) a good characters were made by people who understand human & appreciate human interaction, by observing them often mary sues are not bad of itself, people can just write fiction for themselves, but then it got worse when people forced others that just casually not into that thing to like it
Agreed. The characters I like the most, feel the most real. And the authors took their time to develop and flesh out a lot of personality within the characters. Mary Sues can be fun, but I dislike when they're created and made to be taken seriously as if someone broke the mold with a character lol
"mary sues are not bad of itself, people can just write fiction for themselves". More or less. A lot of anime fall into this category. Difference is that anime isn't trying to ruin other IPs or convince others they are right. It has always been a niche market targeted towards THEIR niche audiences and if they happen to be popular with more people, then that's a bonus. You also don't have anime studios and directors going around telling other people they are wrong for not liking their work. So, it's okay to make self-fulfilling fictions that have a very niche appeal. Just don't force it onto others.
I love your analysis! I'm so fed up with this "girl boss bi*tching"-archetype. There is so much depth in all those female characters your showed in your video! It's so sad that everything we already grew up with, has been totally burned down but this one "woke" female character stereotype...
Thank you, much appreciated! I always found it upsetting when the movies and shows flop and the articles are like "everyone's sexist and hates women". Uhhh, no, I adore a million great depictions of strong women in media! These movies and shows are flopping because you're writing them wrong!
Tbh I think they're too one dimensional to be villains. Even villains need to be fleshed out and have some sort of character arch. Like Azula from ATLA was a rlly good villain. She has her own back story and weaknesses that make her character more interesting. Mary Sues are just bland.
There is nothing wrong with a damsel in distress. There is also nothing wrong with a "Strong female character", as long as you write them well. Just create a cool and compelling character.
If someone makes an OP character, well they need to make sure they either have an interesting personality, backstory, or anything else to make the viewer have a reason to like them. This is something I hope others who write a story remember because if you give us a Mary Sue, then what's the point of their story to begin with all it does is make a boring story about someone who can do no wrong and is just awesome, because.
That's exactly it. It's possible to make an OP character and make them interesting, like Mob in Mob Psycho 100 or One Punch Man. It's writing someone who's not supposed to be perfect as if they are perfect that makes it super boring lol
The amount of power a protagonist has should be proportionate to the power available in their world. Goku and Meliodas may look OP, but compare them to threats they face, and it evens out a bit. It also helps if other characters aren't nerfed to make the main one more impressive.
This video is so well-polished, not an hour long, refrains from using ad hominems to discredit others' opinions or to guilt trip, and addresses a complex subject like characterization in a way that I couldn't. It didn't come across as a debate; it felt like a genuine discussion, and is such a breath of fresh air. Overall this is a great first impression to your channel.
I'm SO glad it came across that way because that's exactly how I wanted it to. I don't want to put others down or make it into some sort of argument. I just wanted to share some examples as to what makes certain strong female characters really stand out and memorable to me.
I like to think why girl bosses characters are so many nowadays is because like Disney She-Hulk, HBO Velma and the Star Wars sequels. They are made by the author, only for the author and marketed solely for them. In other words its not a story anymore its a power fantasy.
Bingo! Right on the money. You take the HBO Velma for example, it's like who is this even made for? Oh. It's made for Mindy Kaling lol And it truly is just a power fantasy, written for the author's own enjoyment and anyone similar to them.
Well, most modern female "heroes" are self-inserts or based on the author's life with projections. Look at the comics, "I'm Not Starfire", "Nubia; The Real One", "The Adventures of Squirrel Girl," "2016-2017 She Hulk", "Iron Heart" and "Captain Marvel". I'm not a good story teller, I'm more of an artist but if I wanted to write about a little shepherd girl protecting her sheep from mythical wolves, then I would have researched about farm life in Europe and in the Mid West, then mix it with European folklore.
@@ravenloh6677 Great point there. It makes sense why they try so hard to make the characters so amazing, because they wouldn't want to write themselves as flawed people. I've always loved watching characters who earned their amazingness to whatever capacity. Side note, you should still try to write that story cuz it sounds awesome!
Strong female characters are those who are empowered by being women instead of trying to be men. Women are strong as men are. There are differences in our strength and where it comes from. I think of it like yoda with luke about the force. “Luminous being are we. Not this crude matter.” We do not measure strength by how hard we hit but by the power that we have. Our impact.
100% this right here. Men and women have their differences and should not be trying to emulate each other to embody what one would consider to be the trademark qualities they believe one another to have. Women can be strong, men can be compassionate, but the key is being their own version of what it means to be strong or compassionate.
Another point I'd like to emphasize is that any strong character, male or female, needs to face the direct consequences of their actions. Ahsoka Tano in The Clone Wars (2008 series) is a great example of this. She's incredibly resilient and selfless, yet she often acts recklessly, which has dire consequences more often than not. And what's so amazing about her is that she learns from those consequences, unlike many female characters today.
Sypha Belnades from Castlevania definitely came across as a strong character and not just because of her magic capabilities as a Speaker. She's also the glue that holds herself, Trevor and Alucard together emotionally. She's the caring, motherly and empathetic member of the team in Castlevania even when she starts cursing like Trevor. In fact when she exhibits some of his traits its not only funny but it's also just sobering since we see she's not infallible. But she's also capable of helping where she's needed just as Trevor and Alucard always do in their fights.
I totally agree. I love the balancing act her character has when it comes to her skill, expertise and magical abilities along with her compassionate, caring side. She's so believable as a person.
Absolutely. We can't lean on one perspective or thought process more than another. We gotta figure out the best there is to offer from all sides and then figure out what to develop from there.
When people call me a sexist and a woman hater because I hate mary sues nowadays, I remind them that Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley are in my top 5 characters of all time. They dont make them like they used to.
I was watching Chinese movies and Japanese anime and the strong female characters get destroyed in the beginning. There's no more growth or flaws with the new Western movies.
Not even halfway in but i gotta say i absolutely love the examples of good female characters you gave. sango from inuyasha, kida from atlantis (one of my fav movies), the female heroes from justice league, mothra, mrs incredible (one of my fav female heroes). And all the examples of strength other than just physical that women are able to display. I seriously love this video! All this nonsense ppl r trying to say about there not being a lot of strong female representation is ridiculous. Theyve always been around!
AHHH! You caught Mothra! Love it! Seriously though, I just wanted to give a more nuanced conversation surrounding women and strength because I feel like it gets too convoluted with people's ideals on how women should be presented. There's so many ways a strong woman can be portrayed well, but it also needs to be called out when that portrayal isn't good.
Naturally talented prodigies are not omnipotent and have their own set of problems. Artemis Fowl is deeply traumatized by the madness that afflicts his mother; Ender Wiggins grows up in one of the most f**ked-up family in fiction and is mentally required to first love and fully understand an enemy before killing them. And let's not forget Anakin Skywalker, whose turbulent emotions are what cause his descent into villainy.
I'm confused why Wanda Maximov was repeatedly shown during the Mary Sue section. Wanda is anything but a Mary Sue. She has flaws and suffers tremendously throughout her story from beginning to end.
All the attributes don't apply to her, but I do think she got off very lightly after all the damage she caused in Wanda Vision. There should have been more consequences for her actions. But we can also agree to disagree on that.
@@Just_Judah I'm not sure if she actually did get off lightly. She still did not get past her grief for losing Vision and her boys and she got corrupted by the Dark Hold. We still have yet to see what became of her.
@@cedbanani I mean, I agree that she suffered quite a bit internally based on the effects of what she did, but the fact that we still don't know what will become of her is my point about getting off lightly. I feel like she should be reprimanded in some way for the actions because they were pretty bad for the people who were affected.
Who’s your favorite? I like the idea of femininity actually being a form of a superpower, because it can be so powerful but also so difficult to channel correctly. We don’t need to be manly or even physically superior in strength to be strong. Another great one!❤
I got a few favorites actually. I've always been a big fan of Buttercup from the Power Puff Girls. She's so tough but really a big softie on the inside. I also really loved watching Totally Spies growing up. Even though it was definitely a show aimed towards girls, the action and plots were interesting enough for me to want to watch.
@@Just_Judah I like how you care that we are portrayed correctly and not as weird machine-like ‘girl bosses.’ Good choices! I’d love to see you create a character of some sort!
@@andin916 Thank you, I definitely do. As a man who's grown up with 3 big sisters and 8 nieces, I feel like there's so many ways women can be portrayed and represented. They aren't all the same! I've thought of creating some before lol
Actually, when I look at juri han from street fighter, it is a way of showing that women are also susceptible to succumbing to madness or violence just like men, and as we all know, we are interested in that type of characters but it is rare in the female characters due to writers' idealization that women are always good or sane, which is unrealistic
@@luiscoa9991 Definitely… especially in modern America, I’ve definitely noticed how women CAN (and are encouraged to be) almost aggressive and manipulative, so it’s kind of a struggle to find a balance.
People forget that stories are about people learning, or failing, from their mistakes. Men. Women. It doesn't matter. As an amateur writer, it's important to know there flaws as well as their motivations. You could write a Mary Sue. But if I wanted to write one, I'd like to see what happens should she lose. What happens next? Would the plot demand her to rise? Or is it a struggle restore the confidence lost in you? I love writing characters, it helps me figure out what do I have to do to make it work. So to write them because they spite a specific gender just feels disrespectful to the craft.
Couldn't agree more, especially that last part! Writing a character just to get back at or ruffle the feathers of a specific gender or any other grouping/ category of people for that matter feels like a mockery of what some people put their heart and soul into when crafting stories.
A strong woman is not one who can carry a machine gun or fight off a bunch of dudes. A woman's true strength comes from her perseverance in whatever field she's in, a worker, a mother, etc. That's the strength of a woman.
If every man in the story is incompetent, then the message isn't the woman is strong its that she is too weak to face a competent man and the story has to be changed on her behalf
You know what, that's an amazing way to put it. Showcasing a woman who's able to face and best competent men in a realistic way is showcasing a truly capable woman. If every man she faces is an irrelevant speed bump to flatten, it's not showcasing her true strength, but really giving her easy wins.
That video is so good and perfectly grasp the problem with modern movie makers that can't write a good character because they absolutely want to write a strong female one before everything. And the extracts you chose perfectly illustrates your words (and are awesome too, especially the anime ones) Thank you for putting words on the feeling I had and couldn't articulate for so long.
Thank you, really appreciate that! It's definitely a huge problem with a lot of modern movie makers. I grew up watching so many amazing strong female characters that were well written (ESPECIALLY IN ANIME) and when I started to notice a trend of this specific archetype of a strong woman on screen being pushed it really irked my nerves. I love seeing strong women in stories, but they have to be more than just strong and female. They gotta be a person first!
The great recent example of a strong character that happens to be female is Frieren. She's almost omnipotent, but she's also a very flawed character. At first, she doesn't understand her party, she's emotionally distant, and she takes her time with Hero Himmel for granted. She failed to connect with him and understand him, but after Himmel's death, she learned to understand people, emphatically connect with them, and understand human emotions and connections.
I like the clips you show to further emphasize your point. There's so many cool female characters I recognize, and LOTS that I don't recognize. That's all from movies/shows, and games, not even including female characters from books too!
Thank you! That was my main goal really. I wanted to place as many of them I could think of that some people will recognize or not recognize to emphasize how many well done strong female characters there are out there. There was a bunch of clips I didn't even get to use for the sake of time lol
The Bride (Kiddo) could have an entire masterclass on what a good, strong, female character is. Recently rewatched bits of Kill Bill and whoo boy do I love that character! And both volumes have many more stunning examples. Practically all of the DiVAS (Bill and Budd included). O-Ren Ishii is such a standout to me!
Sir Integra from Hellsing was always a female character i gravitate towards She smokes and wears a suit and i think i love her lol. She's so hot. Plus shes the leader of a secret organization that tries to kill her multiple times and she survives via badass vampire that only listens to her. Just so good. And she was allowed to age. 🥲 the manga is better than both animes but the ruins raid ost from the first anime is classic.
You really just reminded me of another anime/ manga I've been saving for a rainy day that I know is gonna be fire. All these years I still haven't gotten into it and saved it as a "break glass if needed" series.
I was just debating if Sir Intergra was a girl boss or a strong female character (either way she is hot) I you're right and she does land on the strong character side. But it also made me think of Serras Victoria. Let's face it the baby vamp has a lot of back bone and it is interesting to watch her grow towards being strong in her own right.
The fact that you included Elle Woods, who is an absolutely brilliant lawyer, friend, and character 💕 I’ve always said she’s so well fleshed out - she never put down men or women to make herself feel better. Usagi, Elle, and other great female characters having vulnerability is so beautiful and relatable.
Oh man, aside from that well-written and eloquent argument you have made, I cannot begin to fathom the depths of how well you know of all the series you have showcased in this video to supplement your point. It's not just having watched the films, animes, or cartoons; you have to have an intimate knowledge of all the scenes, the choreography, to pick them out one-by-one and splice them together with this expressive message you have made. That must have taken a lot of time!
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You really understood what I was going for here. It definitely took a lot of time to get everything down the way I wanted to and there were some clips that just couldn't fit but either way, I had an amazing time creating this. A lot of these characters are some of my all time favorites and I wanted to talk about what I think makes them so great! Appreciate the support!
What I hate the most about the modern girl bosses or Mary sues is how easily you can fix them and make them into really well interesting characters with just a few tweaks, but the writers are so INCOMPETENT, that they go out of their way to ruin their own creations, or because specific rules studios have now days women can't be put in vulnerable situations...example is to me Rey Palpatine, and to be honest of all mary sues I think she is the lesser bad, but still...........the lack of planning ruin her character....so let's go with what we had, she is a PALPATINE....imagine if instead of treat this as a surprise in the third movie out of the blue, this was incorporated from Force Awakens, and is the twist of that film and worst the rebellion discover this, now they can't TRUST HER, and after she thinks she found a new family is facing with more rejection, and hate just because she is related to the evil emperor who rule the galaxy for so long and hurt so many people including FINN and PO maybe this become the crack that separate them and sent Rey close to the dark side, now she have to deal with this urges and temptation to go to the dark side as a main focus or her history and gaining back the trust of her friends and allies, maybe find Luke who sees the good inside her and teach her that her attachments aren't a flaw or weakness, and this help her to become strong to finally face Kylo Ren (who if the writers where INTELLIGENT she would never had beat him prior the third film).....instead we got what he got. What I found so funny that many of the writers and producers claim they are doing good for female representation....when in reality they do the opposite and back in the days THEY CLAIM women where objectify as just damsels and sexual objects, we got actual good female representation done right, hell the 3 most popular fictional women who everyone normally pointed as strong women done right, Sarah Connor, Ellen Ripley and Princess Leia, all 3 where written by MEN and all 3 have at least a scene where they are objectify in sexual fashion, and still are 10000000 times better written than ANY FEMALE CHARACTER done by these activist writers we have today, so not even that excuse fly, you can make your character what ever you wanted, dress what ever you wanted, show or not skin, be sexy, tall, strong, tiny, feminine, cute no matter and still can create a great character, but these modern writers will put a TON of restrictions that just made their characters come off as wooden and boring and boring looking as well. Characters like Motoko Kusanagi, Chun Li, Bayonetta, Wonder Woman, Misato Katsuragi, Lust, Sarah Connor, can be sexy, vulnerable, strong and relatable no matter what because the writer behind these characters give them plenty of FLAWS and WEAKNESS, we can relate no matter if you are a woman or a man or a child or a grandpa or in between, you enjoy these characters because they are well written, no matter how much boobs they show, they still are great characters non the less, but modern writers will claim that is the evil of MEN putting these women to the male gaze of some sort of toxic masculine idea of a male fantasy and that is BAD.....some BS like that, these modern activist writers can't write a GOOD CHARACTER less a GOOD STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER and will never do unless they start breaking those idiotic restrictions no one cares...women can cry, can talk about their romantic interest with other women what is wrong about that? (Screw the Bechdel test, that shit makes no sense), women can be sexy and cute and feminine, as well as badass and strong, they can have flaws and lose fights to anyone just like any human being, they can learn from others be guide and guide us back, can be motherly, gentle and caring, they can love and be loved, they can serve under a man or a woman or anything in between, they can rebel and be submissive, they can kick butts and get their butts kicked.....they can be HUMAN just like US, these modern writers have totally loss the sight of what matter when ever you write any story, have GOOD CHARACTERS, NO MATTER WHAT GENDER THEY HAVE.
*SLOW CLAPS* this is an absolutely amazing breakdown and I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. Fantastic way to speak about this. You touched so many layers. Appreciate the perspective shared!
This is the best and most-intelligently made video essay on Mary Sues I’ve ever seen. Very through and impressive. My only suggestion would be to talk about examples after each point.
Thank you! Really appreciate that. It was my first attempt at making one of these sorts of videos so I'm glad I was able to get my ideas through well! I'll definitely thin about that suggestion for the future though.
loved Secret of NIMH (1), sighs... The Land Before Time (1), All Dogs Go to Heaven (1), Robin Hood (disney animated film/movie), Flight of Dragons (animated film-movie), etc etc etc, sighs ------------ animated with live-actors movies: Jessica Rabbit (Who Framed Roger Rabbit) Holli Would (Cool World) Lola Bunny (Space Jam)
For two good strong female characters, I think of Jolyne Cujoh or even riza hawkeye. Two badass women who also have character and depth. For once I feel like I’m watching two fully fleshed out characters rather than a brick wall of a person
Absolutely agree here. Jolyne is 100% her own character and person. She takes after Jotaro in some ways but she's NOT her dad, and the series makes it evident. Hawkeye is a badass that's a master in her craft as a gunman. She's well respected by everyone and isn't afraid to check her superior when she thinks he's messing up. Let alone, the love she has for him that is played out in such a subtle way storytelling wise.
Honestly most female characters in Full metal alchemist are great examples of various strong women. For those with romantic interests with those who have none.
My favorite strong female character with a lot of her struggles being actually tied to her womanhood is Clarice Starling in Silence of the Lambs. I think that movie is way way deeper about talking about the struggles of women in the workplace and part of that is it just SHOWS you. The character never whines about it or constantly lashes out at men or others around her. The director just masterfully SHOWS it to you. That movie is a damn masterpiece lol
Now THAT is an amazing example of that sort of character. That moment where she legitimately gets semen thrown at her was RIDICULOUS and yet, the way she masterfully handles that situation is far greater than 99.9% of people if the roles were reversed.
Great analisys, thank for acknoledge Michiko and Atsuko from Mitchiko to Hatchin. Also Anemone from Eureka Seven, and Faye and Electra from Cowboy Bebop
It's true because they do have their own struggles. Some people are just have a natural advantage in talent. But I've met a few prodigies in my life that had other problems to adjust to.
I love how you articulate everything in this video, so thank you! I remember having this thought a while ago and it’s bothered me. If writers truly cared about writing better female characters, there’d be less of a hyper focus to make them “strong” and more of a focus on giving them more depth, realism, and strength that comes along with it.
Amazing analysis and I love all your examples... Weird how cartoons and indie films have managed to figure all this out while big budget movies are waging pointless wars with each other.
My favourite overpowered female character are Yor from Spy x Family. What makes her struggle interesting is that, her struggle is because of her being overpower.
@@Just_Judah I just met Luci Christian a couple months ago, it was a dream come true. Lena is a deeply precious lead female of mine whom I’ve put a lot of thought and analysis into through my own writing. I hope that if D.Gray-Man continues to have a future, she’ll have more empowerment amidst her troubling struggles.
@@mylesatmaximum8858 Wow that's pretty amazing! I just hope we'll eventually actually get an ending to D.Gray-Man! I'm so scared of it having the same fate as Berserk, and I really REALLY don't want that :(
I wouldn’t describe Ripley from “Alien” as a “strong female character”, that would be Ripley from “Aliens”, I would describe Ripley in the first one as “the only crew mate with a functioning brain”. Did you know that the first draft of the Alien Script was written in a way where all of the characters could have been played by anyone of any gender, it wasn’t until the cast had been finalized that the script was rewritten.
As a feminist dissapointed by captain Marvel and She Hulk, and an aspiring writer, I couldn't agree more. P.S You are the first movie critic whose video about Snow White I would dare to watch, because I like the way you think. Keep up the good work. 💪
I am so glad you found this appealing. I tried my best to give a balanced, nuanced take on the subject because I really do adore well written female characters and it just pains me to see when newer shows/movies miss the mark on them. Thank you very much, truly appreciate that.
Great analysis, but boy, you're selection of clips for the actual video is incredible! I'm proud how many of these characters I'm familiar with, and it's actually so nice to see so many examples that totally debunk the 'There's no strong women in media' BS that is touted these days.
Thank you so much, truly appreciate the positive feedback. That was literally my goal in creating this. I wanted to showcase a bunch of amazing female characters I've loved my whole life and couldn't even fit all of them lol I don't even hate the badly written ones, I just understand their flaws as characters.
A Mary sue is a character that is central to the story that warps the story around them and the premise of this character is how invested you should be in them
Naru from Prey is also a good example. She's a badass lady, but in the beginning she's brash and too eager to show her male peers that she can hunt like the guys. And that made her careless, a great flaw that also makes sense for the character. When she does finally step into her battlemaiden boots, it wasn't to show off to the guys, it was because she realized if she doesn't nail this, everybody in her village is going to die. It's about the same vein as Ellen Ripley or Sarah Connor. Be strong because you have something or someone to protect.
I totally agree with this! In the beginning she's trying so hard to prove "girls can do it too" that she isn't recognizing where she falls short. But when the real danger sets in and she realizes just how much of a threat this new foe is, she prioritizes the good of the village and safety of everyone more. By putting more energy behind finding what the right methods to face their enemy is rather than competing, she actually does surpass the men in the village by outsmarting their opponent. I LOVED that film.
I really hate when a story has an "it's about time" tone to it's strong female character plot. Like they're the first person to wright a female led action movie. You're just gonna disrespect Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, The Bride, Wonder Woman, Eowen, Mulon, Dr. Patricia Medford, and half the cast of Avatar by saying they don't exist or don't count? That I only fave myself a minute to come up with that list. And it's more _diverse_ in terms of personality than most modern girl boss characters.
I LOVEEEE this point. I feel like a lot of modern writers really think they're doing something completely fresh and original. Like they're breaking the mold when they give all the attributes that would be considered negative in male characters to a female character. It's evident they've never seen any of the well written characters you mentioned before.
This video is absolutely amazing, not only because of the facts that you state but because this applies to both genders as well! It's not that gender is the problem itself, it's the concept or the constant nurturing idea that media gives that woman = weakness, which of course, is absolutely not the case at all.
Its crazy that as a woman, I identify with male characters more now, because they are flawed and they teach me growth and other things, while female characters are shallow Mary Sues who dont change,they are perfect from start to the end and its everyone around them who is evil. Im not like these women,I am not perfect flawless capable of taking down man twice my size. I cry, I fall in love, I am scared....they are not. I will take Martin Riggs from Lethal weapon over any modern "strong female character", thank you very much.
I can digg it. When writing a good character, anyone should be able to identify with them. When they write a character to be specifically representative of a gender as a whole, it can seem like they're trying to force them to be identifiable. I identify with a lot of well written female characters because of the traits and flaws they possess.
Some of my favorite female characters recently have been Gwen from ATSV, Kitty from Puss in Boots and Jinx and Vi from Arcane. The difference between these characters and characters like Rey, She Hulk, and Wendy is that they aren’t perfect girl bosses. They are strong and capable but they still struggle and sometimes even lose which is ok. No one is unbeatable. That’s what makes them relatable. They also show emotion and vulnerability something a lot of female characters lack these days. It’s not weak. It’s human. We all have emotions. We all have bad days that we just need to let everything out. These characters I mentioned make mistakes as well. Gwen in trying to please both the spider society and Miles ended up doing neither and hurt the person she loves most. The entire plot of Arcane revolves around Vi screwing up with Jinx leaving her alone for even just a minute which is all it took. Jinx whole character is a tragedy where no matter what she does she is always inadvertently hurting someone she loves which ends up driving her insane. That’s what separates these characters from the rest
I love this breakdown because it's exactly what I was trying to get across. Relatability goes a long way when it comes to what makes a character memorable and likable. Being strong, independent and skilled is amazing but it's boring if it's not expressed through someone that you get the sense is realistic enough to relate to on some human level. A perfect being with no emotions is or vulnerability is as un-relatable as you can get.
Uzi from Murder Drones is a good example of a female character who happens to be strong. She can be mean and rough, but she cares about the people around her and made a selfless decision to save them.
I really enjoyed the way Jessica Jones is written. She is a badass superhero with some strong powers. But she isn't flat like Captain Marvel. No, she has many flaws, people don't magically love her and she often fails. It's through these struggles we see her grow and ultimately defeat the bad guy.
I feel like Shuri has some slack on how she's able to go toe to toe with a god and I've got theories as to why I don't think she technically counts as a Mary Sue. She would have known what the Panther's powers are, I feel like all Wakandans would know or know what to expect. As for knowing how to fight, again, I think that could be a cultural thing for Wakandans (given that the Wakandan army is also all-female). She's given superpowers and she can fight a god on somewhat equal grounds. She loses her father, brother and mother (the latter two died within a year of each other). Wakanda is also pretty advanced in technology and Shuri seems to be in charge of said technology, so it makes sense she knows tech that non-Wakandans don't. Shuri doesn't have a teacher in a same sense: her brother, T'Challa, was the previous Black Panther and because his actor died (may he rest), they killed T'Challa off off-screen and therefore he couldn't teach her to be the Black Panther. Her mother never was the Black Panther so she couldn't help Shuri there, either. She also dies which further hurts Shuri because she's just lost her entire family. Could she have been written better? Maybe, but I wouldn't say she's anything like Captain Marvel, Rey or She-Hulk levels of bad writing of women.
I dunno, I feel like it would have made more sense if Dora Milaje fought with the Panther suit and knew what to do because of her actual fighting expertise than Shuri. Even though it wouldn't have made sense from a storyline/ connection to the previous Panther point of view. She's not nearly as badly written as Captain Marvel, Rey or She-Hulk but she still could have been written better.
Yes girl, this comment right here. You just said everything that I was going to say. I don't think that Shuri should have been hinted at being a Mary Sue trope either.
The thing with shuri fighting Namor is that she’s not really fighting on “even footing” she gets her ass handed to her and deals a minor injury. She beats him by using her ingenuity, taking him onto land, forcing them out of the water and using the jet engine NOT her bare hands
Something I heard once about writing strong characters, male or female, always stuck with me: it’s not about how much they can dish out, it’s about how much punishment they can take and still get back up.
I have once heard that sometimes misogynistic men/women call female characters who do the impossible as "Mary Sues", yet others, like "John Wick" are fine, apparently. Even though they kinda are a MARY SUE. Just call them bad characters at that point, it's just another misogynistic term...
And why does that matter? Why can't that be the case? John wick should've died? Why didn't he? Seems like a Mary Sue. Rey was a girl born to the Skywalkers, very powerful, and clearly capable, why Mary Sue? She Hulk, is a hulk, how is she a Mary Sue?
@@accountrandomnumber182 Being born and learning are different things. While John Wick was gaining experience, Rey got everything for nothing. "She's the Hulk" is just a stupid attempt to hurt men, nothing more. Even in the scenes there it shows up repeatedly. She was stupidly taken and given a power-up because otherwise it wouldn't come out inclusive. I assume you don't need to write the text in syllables so you can clearly read what I wrote?
@@accountrandomnumber182 Skywalkers needed help from predecessors like the Jedi Order or Master Yoda for Luke lmao. Rey had no training and was already on par with kylo ren who trained his entire life 😂 stop defending Rey
@@user-wv2rp6ls7k "But men" is the last resort for the misogynist. You seriously don't want to suspend your disbelief and rather demonize terribly written characters as some feminist plot to ruin the media?
Mulan (2020) vs Mulan (1998) is the peak example of Mary Sue vs Non-Mary Sue.
And the peak example of how to ruin a legend
In the 2020, she was basically a Jedi that got lost in the wrong franchise.
Mulan didn't get a remake, it's not real
@@JimMilton55 my dumbass cant tell if your kidding or not
Mulan 2020 ironically was sexist
Strong female character❌
Strong Character that happens to be female✅✅✅
(I loved Linda Hamilton in terminator)
Sarah Connor is the gold standard. Not only is she a badass. But she has so much depth, strengths and weaknesses.
Terminator TX , from the same franchise, straight terror 🔥
Don’t forget Ripley
To quote Peter Cullen in an interview about how he came up with the voice for Optimus Prime: "You need to be strong enough to know when to be gentle."
*MIC DROPS* that is such a beautiful sentiment.
My mother used to tell us: "Those, who are strong can allow themselves to speak quietly"
It was a quote he got from his brother Larry Cullen. A Vietnam veteran who wanted him to voice a hero kids would look up to, not like the typical action hero of the 80s.
@gamechanger8908 And we can't thank him enough for that statement to Peter. A wise thought to remember when voicing a leader!
Speaking straight facts.
Transformers one fans
👇
With a bit of self awareness and dignity, the modern mary sue "strong independent woman" archetype can be used as a pretty effective villainess: a misandrist, slightly misogynist, power obsessed narcissist who is nigh omnipotent and laughs at the face of silly emotions like love and vulnerability. She will never stop showing off her powers and will always make it a point to boast about her superiority, and she doesn't get close to anyone who wouldn't spend all of their time singing her praises and constantly affirming how tough and badass she is.
Yoooo that's a hell of a way to look at it. Seriously, it really should be applied that way moving forward.
This is great, honestly! It could also be great for a main character to be that way, but through different interactions, they grow into a better person. It makes a great foil between the antagonist and protagonist and separates the two, making the protagonist's story meaningful when you realize how far they have come.
@@ningmushii Absolutely, I like the way you broke that down as well. It's a great way to characterize on either side!
@@Just_Judah Thank you! I realized that in shows, movies, books, etc.; men typically get the chance to go from being a shitty person into a much better person. They get to have that character development and become loved. In today’s stories, the women don’t get a chance at that.
I love seeing strong female characters, but they must have a personality other than what the OP comment described. Then, that behavior is praised or ignored. So why can’t that flawed behavior be shown to be a bad thing that can elevate the story if it wasn’t ignored?
So female Homelander?
For me Mulan is a great strong female character she's disguising as a soldier not to prove strength but because she wants to save her father and because she wanted to prove them that she also brings honour to the family and shes getting strong because shes training
Kim possible is also a great example
Hell yeah! Mulan isn't fighting specifically to prove how she's better than the boys, she's literally trying to save her family and bring them honor. And you really feel it when you watch her train to bring herself up in strength. It's really inspiring! As for Kim Possible, I always thought it was really cool how Ron Stoppable was the sidekick to Kim and although not as physically smooth or capable as Kim, he's not totally weak and is useful regardless of being the assistant and not the main hero. Loved when he started learning martial arts too!
Then the live action and its ****!
@@nonahassan-n3dright. Did Disney forget the plot of the original?
@@learningwithlailaOf course they didn’t forget or else they wouldn’t have attempted to reboot it. They used the remake as an opportunity to make their warped worldview a STATEMENT that women can have the same physical and leadership capabilities as men which is laughable.
@Just_Judah let's all pretend the live action Kim Possible film from. 2019 never happened
I think the reason why I dislike
modern mary sue political agenda characters
is that they are the type of character,
that used to be the villain
An effortlessly overpowered narcissist,
obsessed with her own supremacy
who has no empathy toward others
but expects everyone to praise her
I totally agree with this. They're taking personality traits we would normally attribute to a character negatively and calling them a hero because they're female. There's countless positive examples of strong women in media that don't behave that way!
That is actually a great point.
That one reason I hate them my second reason is they flat
holy sh*t when you put it like that it makes so much sense now
@@Just_Judah true
To actually make a strong female character actually seems pretty simple, but is made unnecessarily overcomplicated. You got to treat that character like making any other character, which involves things like giving them personality and making them likeable
100% they take the concept and make it more than it needs to be. Make a good character, then find ways to identify how they're strong, simple as that.
@@Just_Judah I'm not sure if you heard about this but a lot of games developed in the West suffers from Mary Sue syndrome as well as the "uglification" of female characters. They purposely making female video game characters ugly but when we see their life models, they're gorgeous. Why do they give them the "Butch" treatment?
@@ravenloh6677 It's crazy you mentioned that, I literally just watched a video on that subject a few days ago. They're legit purposefully making the female characters look as unconventional as possible. It's super weird!
@@Just_Judah The question is "Are they doing this discourage heterosexuality or doing this to make other women feel better because they resented the popular pretty girls?"
@@ravenloh6677 I feel like it's the latter really. There's tons of chiseled, handsome video game characters but all they've done is inspire me to do better. I feel like those developers are kinda salty at the attractive female video game characters and decide to make them ugly instead.
Avatar the Last Airbender has greatly written women, and I love it.
Katara is the stereotypical motherly figure, addionally she was given moments to be strong.
Toph is the "tomboy" like character, she is lovable and powerful despite being blind. She was also given lower points.
Azula is a great example of a girlboss, she is menacing and capable, but she was given moments where she was vulnerable.
There are more great examples, but the show has great female characters!
Avatar the Last Airbender is exceptional at writing diverse examples of both women and man. It doesn't treat people as monoliths, but as individuals and I LOVE IT.
Let's just throw out that phrase "girl boss"
@@UnifiedEntity I suppose-
@@Just_Judah I cannot explain how much I love that show and its characters
@@seleneartemis864 It is legitimately like the gold standard of how to make an amazing show.
JJ: Make them fully fleshed out with flaws and a cause
Current movies: Thats illegal
LOL basically.
Who is JJ
@@PrincessMavenKittyDarkholme Just Judah...
That's not illegal meme!!! Approved😊
@@Just_Judahall this video stems from is just viewing one-self to a high-pedestal of setting a higher set of perceived standards that gets determined in its absolute form of truth to what it should & shouldn't be as; your context cues regarding Rey being a 'mArY sUe' is the epitome of that & it's not just yourself but ppls overall perception and lack of understanding...
i agree with the sentiment of your arguments regarding what's a 'Mary Sue' but that just ultimately boils down to whatever I've elaborated above; also you can have a female character project whatever the things that transpired in her life to treat men differently & not females because of some generalisations and differentiations a female character can have, to which you argued that you can have something like this but the character apparently NEEDs to always treat everyone the same which includes males; you're still revelling and believing in the same sentiment to which you were arguing against by how if a Female character has exceptional standards of treating ppl based on gender then that's poor writing or how you stated that all it does justly or in its absolute form of truth is that 'fEmalE gUd & mAlE bEd'...
Gender Essentialism/Generalisation in its literal form of manner is a horrible mindset to have in any pieces of medium which includes critiquing, creating etc.
i don't understand how modern disney writers get "strong female characters" confused with "light yagami from death note but with none of the self awareness"
I'm a woman and an artist, i prefer drawing male protagonists more than females.
I also treat them equally, if a lady is being a perv, she's gonna get her ass handed to her and vice versa lol
I like that. I like equality between characters and their actions!
IM the same way! Let them all get their asses kicked if they deserve it , no matter the gender 😂
@@P-P-Panda That's the best way to do it!
@@P-P-Panda I drew a little comic where a girl was peeping at a naked guy in the school shower room, and she got yeeted through the window of the fourth floor lmao
@@Just_Judah Like how Kazuma treats everyone equally.
A balanced and healthy perspective, a real rarity nowadays. Thank you for making this video.
Thank you! Appreciate that. That's exactly how I wanted this to come off, so I'm glad it hit the mark.
It's only a rarity if you look in the wrong places. People with their self-imposed bubbles smh.
@@tamatebako_yt k
@@tamatebako_ytwell, it’s pretty easy to look in the wrong places as the people in the wrong places are often really loud and because of the superficial similarities between videos like the one we are in right now and the crazy right wingers, recommendations often take you to those places
Don’t you just love how easy it is to fall into ideological and political rabbit holes because of how recommendations work?
@@loganredding1621I can agree I watched a few videos on game being bad then I came across this video of a guy ranting about why games now aren’t manly or to cute because liberals and my solution to his problem play those grittier games than complaining about the lack of those game
It always weirded me out how often people write female characters' whole existence as "overcoming societal expectations and stuff and stuff". They're intentions are to defeat misogyny yet it itself comes off as misogynistic by presenting us like our only reason to exist is to break gender norms. Like you can write commentary on gender norms and also write these characters as people instead of reducing everything to their gender.
It’s giving knuckles the echidna lol😂 totally agree tho! That’s always bothered me
@@Leopz4rk Took me a moment to realize you meant Sonic Boom😂
Reminds me of the men writing women/women writing men subreddits, It was always wild reading those
@@zetafish7347 That's how I feel about novels written by and about Arab Muslim women. It's always about us being misunderstood and having to defend ourselves against stereotypes and how we're "oppressed" and mistreated and so on and so on... and I'm just like "so we can only exist in stories if we're shown as the token inclusive character or to combat stereotypes about our culture and religion? We can't just have nice and simple every day stories where the main character is an authentic, non-westernized Muslim???"
@@ghost942 Men written by women are leagues away from women written by men though
To me the difference between an actual strong female character and a Mary Sue is that the former doesn't have to constantly tell you how strong she is. She just shows you. Actions over words makes all the difference.
I wholeheartedly agree. All my favorite strong female characters growing up were constantly doing badass things and never even addressed the fact that they were female. They were strong and badass because of their actions, behavior and the way they carried themselves, not because they told you over and over again.
Another instance of the "Show, Don't Tell" rule. When writers respect their audience enough to trust that we can infer things from hints, instead of having to be blatantly told everything, you can have better quality writing with more subtlety and nuance.
So writing in a Mary Sue could technically be considered an indirect insult to the intelligence of the audience. Or maybe the writers are just straight up being lazy.
If a woman has to tell you that she is a strong independent woman then she isn't and she is trying to convincer herself. Don't say it, show it.
They rely on physical strength being the "strong" and completely ignore the mental strength
Ripley talking to her literal bosses in the beginning of Aliens. It takes some serious mental strength and fortitude to look at them and YELL at them. "Goddamnit that's NOT all! If one of these things gets to earth, this, all this BULLSHIT is GONE!"
I love this so much, it is giving me ideas on how to subvert the "strong female" character archetype. And it was really said in a very respectful way.
Thank you so much for saying that! That's exactly how I wanted to come across. It's not that I wanna bash the people who make those bad archetypes, it's that I just wanna call out what's wrong with it while praising what I think is done correctly!
I only rely on antiheroes, for me it is the most obvious way to do it, I mean not male antiheroes but disturbed, tragic or complex guys.
I love ur idea
Simple test: if a character was to lose most of their strength and power, would they still be interesting and able to progress in some way?
If the answer is no, then it's probably a bad character.
Also, there's nothing wrong with being saved from time to time, figuratively or not. Being saved does not mean a character is weak, it means others care about them enough in the first place to save them. That is far more precious than raw strength alone. Some say being able to seek help is also a fundamental part of strength as well.
Bingo! That's it right there. If you took away the strength and power, the character should still be someone you are invested in watching or reading about. And you also bring up a great point with the whole "being saved is bad" thing. It happens to all sorts of characters and it doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong with them, nor does it make them weak. Like when Luffy tries to save Ace in One Piece during the Summit War of Marineford.
To build off of this, there is the old adage "Tears are not a sign of weakness, but a sign that you've been strong for too long"
@@lordhellstrande2763 Man I love that one. So true!
Strong female character that’s well written is Revi from the black lagoon. She has to be tough because that is how she had to be to survive her trauma growing up.
I also love Ororou Monroe Storm because you see her strength and vulnerability. Amazing video.
Yeah Revi has been through it! And Storm has always been amazing in my book. I remember being fascinated with her character design when I was little.
Y’all are sleeping on michiko and hatchin the animation is spotless, the soundtrack God Tier, and the character feel so real highly underrated
@@Nicejokeright That anime is truly a gem! Everyone needs to see it!
Japan seems to write strong female characters for over the last 50 years better than Hollywood has over the past 10 years alone, though not always. Just look at what Hollywood did with their adaptation of Ghost in the Shell, a Japanese animation property. The times that Japan does fail at creating strong female characters properly are mostly in shounen series such as Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, and My Hero Academia (to an extent).
@@grahamdamberger7130 I like a few of the female characters in Bleach and One Piece, but I would definitely say Naruto and My Hero have done a lot of their female cast a disservice.
More writers should look to Arcane as to how to write women correctly. These women are the fucking shit. They have multiple layers. They can take a punch and throw it right back, regardless of it’s verbal or physical. But they also have many low points they have to work through.
They’re amazing and more people should take note.
I've been saving Arcane for a rainy day when I know I wanna watch something amazing. I've heard so many good things about it!
It's gonna make your eyes rainy I'll tell ya that.@@Just_Judah
@@klulu-kun That sounds pretty great actually. Been a while since I've watched something that actually made me feel something deep.
@@Just_Judah Make the rainy day come sooner and you could totally do a video on it. It does diversity correctly and actually gives each character so much depth and nuance.
@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 Funny, today is somewhat of a literal rainy day. Maybe today's the day!
Honestly this is why Sailor Moon is one of my Role Models. Yes she is a moon princess and a sailor scout that fights evil but she is also a teenager that deals with highschool, boys, friends, etc and she is known as a cry baby but when needs to can nut up and beat ass. She lets you see yourself in her and see that yes, even one of the most powerful beings in the universe can show emotion, break down, fail even but they will always come back stronger because they truly care and their driving force is to protect, not show off or be omnipotent.
This is an amazing breakdown as to why Sailor Moon is such an iconic character in this regard. She easily shows the dichotomy of everything involved with being a strong, powerful heroine while still having her soft, girly side without coming off as elitist or all powerful. Her & the other sailor scouts have their own plights and personalities that separate them from one another but they embrace all sides of femininity while embodying strength. Sailor Mars was always my crush out of the bunch growing up.
@@Just_Judah Sailor Jupiter has always been a fav for me other than Sailor moon. I loved how they met and that Usagi wasnt scared of her at all and just thought her food looked really good and treated her like a person, not her reputation.
@@LafeiMcCloud Sailor Jupiter also just oozes that badass appeal. I've always loved her vibe.
Morgiana (Magi) was and will always be someone I admire along with Suigintou, Morte (Sands of Destruction), Tenten, Yakumo Kurama, Kurenai Yuhi, Lucy (Fairy Tail), Hinamori even Orihime & Hinata
Yeah, its cool that she's the standard Shonen protagonist with the only difference being gender, she reminds a bit of the way Ichigo was in bleach, which also has a lot of well written female characters like Unohana, Rukia, Yoruichi
Ellen ripley was so good because of her flaws and fear, this is what gave her the strength and courage needed to fight off the perfect organism. Not like a certain rey skywalker who just does things.
Agreed. You can literally just feel everything she's going through. Every moment of fear makes her that much more brave to do what she does.
Rey palpatine*
Sarah Connor kinda fits in this category too. In the second movie she's portrayed as a badass, but she is also so affected by her trauma that when she's not lashing out she's staying distant and trying not to feel anything, because if she does she knows she's gonna break down. It all comes to a head when she goes off to kill Miles Dyson, the person she holds responsible for creating Skynet. She has him at gunpoint and is yelling at his kid to get out of the way when Sarah realizes that she's becoming an unreasonable, emotionless, remorseless killer hellbent on ending one individual's life. Just like a Terminator. The dam bursts and she breaks down. It is an excellently acted and directed scene, and I don't think it get talked about enough.
@@pyronuke4768 That scene is SOOOO crazy. Like you can see just how much she doesn't wanna harm him, especially in front of his wife and kids. But that weight on her shoulders of trying to choose one life over the fate of the world is heartbreaking. She's totally overwhelmed in the situation as anyone would be! One of my favorite scenes in the film because of how deeply you can feel the pressure.
Exactly
The whole "Hating Strong Women" argument is so disingenuous. Every man who grew up in the 80s & 90s loves Ellen Ripley and Sarah Conner to varying levels.
100000000% it's like, nah we don't hate strong women, we hate badly written characters.
Accusing people of being disingenuous while making a disingenuous argument(the idea that liking two strong female characters from decades ago is proof that you only hate "poorly written characters" is very disingenuous and something that no one with even a basic level of critical thinking skills would fall for) adds an extra layer of obnoxiousness. Thanks for that
@@thevarietychannelofyoutube4769 so you’re ok with poorly written characters as long as they are female characters with no depth or flaws whatsoever?
@@isaacyeon6334 No but the argument that you like two characters from decades ago so you aren't against strong female characters makes no sense. It's among the dumbest anti-SJW talking points
I like Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley from t-2 judgement and aliens also Ororo Monroe and Rogue also Black Cat also catwoman and princess Leah let's not forget Shaina of ophiuchus strong female characters all of them and well written too
It can basically be boiled down to making your female character human.
I don’t see the nurturing as essential tbh.
I’m female but definitely no nurturing personality and while I do not enjoy the poorly written girl bosses out there, I do enjoy female characters who’re flawed, realistic and neither a superhuman a*hole nor a typical nurturer, I am sick of both portrayals of women.
Exactly, I totally agree. If a character feels human and like a real person that can exist, then it helps with overall characterization. I also agree that not all women are inherently nurturing. So it's okay for a character not to be while still not being a total jerk either.
I agree not all women are nurturing they can definitely be the far more selfish of the genders without their traditionally redeeming graceful and loving hearts and there is no in between.
@@aavila1206 a woman can be a provider as well. By your logic men are selfish creatures by nature lol stop projecting
Nurturing women are vital to Civilization existence as are strong men.
@@arnowisp6244 they are. Never said anything against it, but to portray ALL women as either one or the other is unrealistic and unrelatable because, despite gender, people come in facets.
It's a real shame that modern writers don't seem to understand how to actually write female characters. Or any characters for that matter.
You got that right! A lot of them are just bad writers lol
I do, because of im actually
Interested in making characters not ideological statements.
Cant? Or wont?
I'm so happy that you included jojo's bizarre adventure woman in this video. I've always liked araki and the way he wrote women in his works. It's so rare to see anyone include his works in this type of video analysis. also, the segment where you mentioned creating a power system can be used to overcome any different physical attributes between men and women, I immediately thought of araki and then you quoted his words right after 😭
The man is a genius lol he writes characters in general so well, but he has a specialty when it comes to writing women. I think a lot of shonen authors and authors in general could learn a lesson or two from his influence!
true
for example erina the 1st jojo heroine, she might not strong in battle but I really admire her strong mentality, like washing her mouth with mud water after being kissed by Dio, nursing jonathan for entire night after his house destroyed, being single parent for her son and grandson
@@kolapsg7748 Being kind to Smokey after Joseph befriends him, treating Suzi Q well, helping to care for the baby that would grow up to become Lisa Lisa. She has quite the list of accomplishments that not only showcase her true kindness, but her overall importance to the future of the JoJo's timeline.
People dont hate female lead people hate bad writing that felt forced
I feel like even with these Mary Sue characters, they can be entertaining to watch or read about if they're sufficiently likable or charming in some way. This especially applies to the realm of fanfiction and writing for fun where you're not too concerned with the proper storytelling techniques and narratives and just wanna have a blast and that's fine too.
Ultimately, what I took away from this video is that we need more female characters of different strokes. That seems like it should be easy enough given that they're almost half our population, so long as the writers aren't blinded by their prejudice.
Absolutely agree. I've seen a few Mary Sue characters in recent years that are entertaining because they're written in a fun way. I just dislike when a Mary Sue is written to be taken seriously when there's better depictions of characters out there that you could easily enjoy more. There's so many different women with unique walks of life. It shouldn't be that difficult to develop a character more than just "Strong, independent, better than everyone at everything, makes no mistakes, hates men" lol
It depends on the context of the story, and whether or not the Character is the main focus of the story. There are plenty of Mary Sue type Characters that are well received, in part because the journey isn't theirs. Metroman in "Megamind" could be considered a Mary Sue Character, but because he isn't the focus of the story, and thus not about his Journey, him being OP and well liked by just about everyone isn't a negative factor to his character. In fact, it's used to boost the story of the Main Character, who has been pushed down and reviled his whole life in the shadow of a perfect person. And this is yet another point in "Megamind's" favor.
There are likely other instances where they can work, but this is my focus.
I based myself on antiheroes and I see that I can make a badass or crazy girl but that she is for the most identifiable reasons, sad, tragic or shady, so she is an intriguing but intense character, and not only is she rude but also suffers misfortune and sad deep down
Domino from Deadpool
@@dustinwashburn1283 Even then, Metroman only succeeds because of his two major flaws/mistakes. He first lets everybody else rule his life, and then he abandons the world to its fate when they need him the most. Both being the very same mistakes Megamind makes in the movie. If he hadn't made any mistakes, he would have sucked.
"Saiyans only like strong women." *- Prince Vegeta*
*looks to "Prince" vegeta, endig up, henpecked by Bulma* rriiiight.... (joke aside ^^ Bulma is strong, but more character strong, than rare phisical brute power ^^ )
"Being the strongest, most capable character in the story tells us a character IS strong. . . but not WHY the character is strong. It lacks the proper depth and writing for what makes a good character in general. Because you can't make a strong character without making a good character first."
Welp. . . it's like Doug Walker said in his 2016 review of the 2015 live-action remake of 1950's Cinderella: "While having a strong character is good, it's more important to have them INTERESTING first."
Absolutely agree. Who cares if the character is mighty if they aren't interesting enough for me to want to see them display that might?
Honestly summed up like what hayao miyazaki said (if i remember correctly) a good characters were made by people who understand human & appreciate human interaction, by observing them often
mary sues are not bad of itself, people can just write fiction for themselves, but then it got worse when people forced others that just casually not into that thing to like it
Agreed. The characters I like the most, feel the most real. And the authors took their time to develop and flesh out a lot of personality within the characters. Mary Sues can be fun, but I dislike when they're created and made to be taken seriously as if someone broke the mold with a character lol
"mary sues are not bad of itself, people can just write fiction for themselves". More or less. A lot of anime fall into this category.
Difference is that anime isn't trying to ruin other IPs or convince others they are right. It has always been a niche market targeted towards THEIR niche audiences and if they happen to be popular with more people, then that's a bonus.
You also don't have anime studios and directors going around telling other people they are wrong for not liking their work.
So, it's okay to make self-fulfilling fictions that have a very niche appeal. Just don't force it onto others.
I love your analysis! I'm so fed up with this "girl boss bi*tching"-archetype.
There is so much depth in all those female characters your showed in your video! It's so sad that everything we already grew up with, has been totally burned down but this one "woke" female character stereotype...
Thank you, much appreciated! I always found it upsetting when the movies and shows flop and the articles are like "everyone's sexist and hates women". Uhhh, no, I adore a million great depictions of strong women in media! These movies and shows are flopping because you're writing them wrong!
I like the girl boss bitching archetype, we really need more of it to balance out all the male ones
@@xxkankala1671 Lol I don't think we really need either of them
I can see the girlboss archetype will only work for villainess. Bayonetta is the only girlboss protagonist that actually works in my book.
@@carltasticdrew9633 I love Bayonetta. She is sassy yet classy and elegant but not bitchy at all. Therefore this too can work for others 👍🏻
Mary Sues are perfectly well fitted as a villain.
I can agree with that!
Tbh I think they're too one dimensional to be villains. Even villains need to be fleshed out and have some sort of character arch. Like Azula from ATLA was a rlly good villain. She has her own back story and weaknesses that make her character more interesting. Mary Sues are just bland.
There is nothing wrong with a damsel in distress. There is also nothing wrong with a "Strong female character", as long as you write them well. Just create a cool and compelling character.
100% agree. No matter what role a character fills in a story, if they're written well you just enjoy them for what they are.
This video is actually helping me making characters for my stories, thank you so much for this S tier video
Thank you! Really appreciate that. I'm glad you enjoyed it and found the information useful!
If someone makes an OP character, well they need to make sure they either have an interesting personality, backstory, or anything else to make the viewer have a reason to like them. This is something I hope others who write a story remember because if you give us a Mary Sue, then what's the point of their story to begin with all it does is make a boring story about someone who can do no wrong and is just awesome, because.
That's exactly it. It's possible to make an OP character and make them interesting, like Mob in Mob Psycho 100 or One Punch Man. It's writing someone who's not supposed to be perfect as if they are perfect that makes it super boring lol
or make them only support so main character actually bounces off their OP abilities and learns to also use the brain
The amount of power a protagonist has should be proportionate to the power available in their world. Goku and Meliodas may look OP, but compare them to threats they face, and it evens out a bit. It also helps if other characters aren't nerfed to make the main one more impressive.
This video is so well-polished, not an hour long, refrains from using ad hominems to discredit others' opinions or to guilt trip, and addresses a complex subject like characterization in a way that I couldn't. It didn't come across as a debate; it felt like a genuine discussion, and is such a breath of fresh air. Overall this is a great first impression to your channel.
I'm SO glad it came across that way because that's exactly how I wanted it to. I don't want to put others down or make it into some sort of argument. I just wanted to share some examples as to what makes certain strong female characters really stand out and memorable to me.
I like to think why girl bosses characters are so many nowadays is because like Disney She-Hulk, HBO Velma and the Star Wars sequels.
They are made by the author, only for the author and marketed solely for them. In other words its not a story anymore its a power fantasy.
Bingo! Right on the money. You take the HBO Velma for example, it's like who is this even made for? Oh. It's made for Mindy Kaling lol And it truly is just a power fantasy, written for the author's own enjoyment and anyone similar to them.
Well, most modern female "heroes" are self-inserts or based on the author's life with projections. Look at the comics, "I'm Not Starfire", "Nubia; The Real One", "The Adventures of Squirrel Girl," "2016-2017 She Hulk", "Iron Heart" and "Captain Marvel".
I'm not a good story teller, I'm more of an artist but if I wanted to write about a little shepherd girl protecting her sheep from mythical wolves, then I would have researched about farm life in Europe and in the Mid West, then mix it with European folklore.
@@ravenloh6677 Great point there. It makes sense why they try so hard to make the characters so amazing, because they wouldn't want to write themselves as flawed people. I've always loved watching characters who earned their amazingness to whatever capacity. Side note, you should still try to write that story cuz it sounds awesome!
Strong female characters are those who are empowered by being women instead of trying to be men. Women are strong as men are. There are differences in our strength and where it comes from. I think of it like yoda with luke about the force. “Luminous being are we. Not this crude matter.” We do not measure strength by how hard we hit but by the power that we have. Our impact.
100% this right here. Men and women have their differences and should not be trying to emulate each other to embody what one would consider to be the trademark qualities they believe one another to have. Women can be strong, men can be compassionate, but the key is being their own version of what it means to be strong or compassionate.
Another point I'd like to emphasize is that any strong character, male or female, needs to face the direct consequences of their actions. Ahsoka Tano in The Clone Wars (2008 series) is a great example of this. She's incredibly resilient and selfless, yet she often acts recklessly, which has dire consequences more often than not. And what's so amazing about her is that she learns from those consequences, unlike many female characters today.
Sypha Belnades from Castlevania definitely came across as a strong character and not just because of her magic capabilities as a Speaker. She's also the glue that holds herself, Trevor and Alucard together emotionally. She's the caring, motherly and empathetic member of the team in Castlevania even when she starts cursing like Trevor. In fact when she exhibits some of his traits its not only funny but it's also just sobering since we see she's not infallible. But she's also capable of helping where she's needed just as Trevor and Alucard always do in their fights.
I totally agree. I love the balancing act her character has when it comes to her skill, expertise and magical abilities along with her compassionate, caring side. She's so believable as a person.
@@Just_Judah Yeah. You can tell where Richter from Nocturne got his caring side as well as his magic.
@@claytonrios1 I DEFINTIELY need to watch the new series asap. Haven't gotten a chance to yet.
EXACTLY
I like how you balance your ideas, WE NEED A COMPROMISE WHEN IT COMES TO MODERN WRITING
Absolutely. We can't lean on one perspective or thought process more than another. We gotta figure out the best there is to offer from all sides and then figure out what to develop from there.
When people call me a sexist and a woman hater because I hate mary sues nowadays, I remind them that Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley are in my top 5 characters of all time. They dont make them like they used to.
I was watching Chinese movies and Japanese anime and the strong female characters get destroyed in the beginning. There's no more growth or flaws with the new Western movies.
Not even halfway in but i gotta say i absolutely love the examples of good female characters you gave. sango from inuyasha, kida from atlantis (one of my fav movies), the female heroes from justice league, mothra, mrs incredible (one of my fav female heroes). And all the examples of strength other than just physical that women are able to display. I seriously love this video! All this nonsense ppl r trying to say about there not being a lot of strong female representation is ridiculous. Theyve always been around!
AHHH! You caught Mothra! Love it! Seriously though, I just wanted to give a more nuanced conversation surrounding women and strength because I feel like it gets too convoluted with people's ideals on how women should be presented. There's so many ways a strong woman can be portrayed well, but it also needs to be called out when that portrayal isn't good.
Brooklyn 99 has one of the best female character casts ever. Writers should take some points from that show.
Absolutely! So well balanced and with various personalities and quirks while also being hilarious.
I love Tigress from KFP and Mizu from Blue Eyed Samurai as well-written women
There is an exception to the "marry sue" archetype, which happens to be the "naturally talented prodigy" archetype.
I can agree with that, as long as there's still actual challenges presented to the prodigy that they have to overcome.
@Just_Judah I think Supergirl from The Flash 2023 is a well-written strong woman character
Mary*
Yes. Naturally gifted or even unnaturally gifted. But they still have to spend time training to realize that potential.
Naturally talented prodigies are not omnipotent and have their own set of problems. Artemis Fowl is deeply traumatized by the madness that afflicts his mother; Ender Wiggins grows up in one of the most f**ked-up family in fiction and is mentally required to first love and fully understand an enemy before killing them. And let's not forget Anakin Skywalker, whose turbulent emotions are what cause his descent into villainy.
I'm confused why Wanda Maximov was repeatedly shown during the Mary Sue section. Wanda is anything but a Mary Sue. She has flaws and suffers tremendously throughout her story from beginning to end.
All the attributes don't apply to her, but I do think she got off very lightly after all the damage she caused in Wanda Vision. There should have been more consequences for her actions. But we can also agree to disagree on that.
@@Just_Judah I'm not sure if she actually did get off lightly. She still did not get past her grief for losing Vision and her boys and she got corrupted by the Dark Hold. We still have yet to see what became of her.
@@cedbanani I mean, I agree that she suffered quite a bit internally based on the effects of what she did, but the fact that we still don't know what will become of her is my point about getting off lightly. I feel like she should be reprimanded in some way for the actions because they were pretty bad for the people who were affected.
@@Just_Judahshe literally got crushed and died. What consequences? Shes dead. She was also written as a very stupid person.
THANK YOU. An essay exactly like this is years overdue
Thank you, much appreciated! I've been thinking this up in my head for a while now. I'm glad I just finally put it out there.
6:34 did not expect to see my beloved Mothra here 😊❤
I'm so glad you caught her!
Same! I immediately came here to comment on how glad I am to see my favourite moth mentioned!😊
I love how mothra is briefly shown as an example of a strong female character
Who’s your favorite? I like the idea of femininity actually being a form of a superpower, because it can be so powerful but also so difficult to channel correctly. We don’t need to be manly or even physically superior in strength to be strong. Another great one!❤
I got a few favorites actually. I've always been a big fan of Buttercup from the Power Puff Girls. She's so tough but really a big softie on the inside. I also really loved watching Totally Spies growing up. Even though it was definitely a show aimed towards girls, the action and plots were interesting enough for me to want to watch.
@@Just_Judah I like how you care that we are portrayed correctly and not as weird machine-like ‘girl bosses.’ Good choices! I’d love to see you create a character of some sort!
@@andin916 Thank you, I definitely do. As a man who's grown up with 3 big sisters and 8 nieces, I feel like there's so many ways women can be portrayed and represented. They aren't all the same! I've thought of creating some before lol
Actually, when I look at juri han from street fighter, it is a way of showing that women are also susceptible to succumbing to madness or violence just like men, and as we all know, we are interested in that type of characters but it is rare in the female characters due to writers' idealization that women are always good or sane, which is unrealistic
@@luiscoa9991 Definitely… especially in modern America, I’ve definitely noticed how women CAN (and are encouraged to be) almost aggressive and manipulative, so it’s kind of a struggle to find a balance.
strong girl character: I AM BETTER THAN YOU STUPID VIRGIN MAN
vi from arcane: i need hug caitlyn... ☹I'm tired of everything... *sad vibes*
Lol that sums it up pretty well.
People forget that stories are about people learning, or failing, from their mistakes. Men. Women. It doesn't matter. As an amateur writer, it's important to know there flaws as well as their motivations.
You could write a Mary Sue. But if I wanted to write one, I'd like to see what happens should she lose. What happens next? Would the plot demand her to rise? Or is it a struggle restore the confidence lost in you?
I love writing characters, it helps me figure out what do I have to do to make it work. So to write them because they spite a specific gender just feels disrespectful to the craft.
Couldn't agree more, especially that last part! Writing a character just to get back at or ruffle the feathers of a specific gender or any other grouping/ category of people for that matter feels like a mockery of what some people put their heart and soul into when crafting stories.
A strong woman is not one who can carry a machine gun or fight off a bunch of dudes. A woman's true strength comes from her perseverance in whatever field she's in, a worker, a mother, etc. That's the strength of a woman.
If every man in the story is incompetent, then the message isn't the woman is strong its that she is too weak to face a competent man and the story has to be changed on her behalf
You know what, that's an amazing way to put it. Showcasing a woman who's able to face and best competent men in a realistic way is showcasing a truly capable woman. If every man she faces is an irrelevant speed bump to flatten, it's not showcasing her true strength, but really giving her easy wins.
That video is so good and perfectly grasp the problem with modern movie makers that can't write a good character because they absolutely want to write a strong female one before everything.
And the extracts you chose perfectly illustrates your words (and are awesome too, especially the anime ones)
Thank you for putting words on the feeling I had and couldn't articulate for so long.
Thank you, really appreciate that! It's definitely a huge problem with a lot of modern movie makers. I grew up watching so many amazing strong female characters that were well written (ESPECIALLY IN ANIME) and when I started to notice a trend of this specific archetype of a strong woman on screen being pushed it really irked my nerves.
I love seeing strong women in stories, but they have to be more than just strong and female. They gotta be a person first!
The great recent example of a strong character that happens to be female is Frieren. She's almost omnipotent, but she's also a very flawed character. At first, she doesn't understand her party, she's emotionally distant, and she takes her time with Hero Himmel for granted. She failed to connect with him and understand him, but after Himmel's death, she learned to understand people, emphatically connect with them, and understand human emotions and connections.
I like the clips you show to further emphasize your point. There's so many cool female characters I recognize, and LOTS that I don't recognize. That's all from movies/shows, and games, not even including female characters from books too!
Thank you! That was my main goal really. I wanted to place as many of them I could think of that some people will recognize or not recognize to emphasize how many well done strong female characters there are out there. There was a bunch of clips I didn't even get to use for the sake of time lol
The Bride (Kiddo) could have an entire masterclass on what a good, strong, female character is.
Recently rewatched bits of Kill Bill and whoo boy do I love that character!
And both volumes have many more stunning examples. Practically all of the DiVAS (Bill and Budd included). O-Ren Ishii is such a standout to me!
It's been a while since the last time I watched it fully, I should give it another whirl. It's such a unique set of films!
O ren’s backstory is such a depressing yet well fleshed out storyline. I love her whole part of KB1
Sir Integra from Hellsing was always a female character i gravitate towards She smokes and wears a suit and i think i love her lol. She's so hot. Plus shes the leader of a secret organization that tries to kill her multiple times and she survives via badass vampire that only listens to her. Just so good. And she was allowed to age. 🥲 the manga is better than both animes but the ruins raid ost from the first anime is classic.
You really just reminded me of another anime/ manga I've been saving for a rainy day that I know is gonna be fire. All these years I still haven't gotten into it and saved it as a "break glass if needed" series.
Also Catherina Sforza from "Trinity Blood," another woman of great political power and a super-vampire as her confidant/attack dog/trump card.
I was just debating if Sir Intergra was a girl boss or a strong female character (either way she is hot) I you're right and she does land on the strong character side. But it also made me think of Serras Victoria. Let's face it the baby vamp has a lot of back bone and it is interesting to watch her grow towards being strong in her own right.
Due to Mulan being one of my favorite Disney characters, I consider the live action a disrespect to the original movie.
It absolutely is. It disregards everything that made the original special and made her all powerful for no reason.
The fact that you included Elle Woods, who is an absolutely brilliant lawyer, friend, and character 💕 I’ve always said she’s so well fleshed out - she never put down men or women to make herself feel better.
Usagi, Elle, and other great female characters having vulnerability is so beautiful and relatable.
This is the most comprehensive breakdown I've ever seen. Thank you!
Thank you, I really appreciate that! I wanted to try and express myself as well as I could without making it too long lol
Oh man, aside from that well-written and eloquent argument you have made, I cannot begin to fathom the depths of how well you know of all the series you have showcased in this video to supplement your point. It's not just having watched the films, animes, or cartoons; you have to have an intimate knowledge of all the scenes, the choreography, to pick them out one-by-one and splice them together with this expressive message you have made. That must have taken a lot of time!
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You really understood what I was going for here. It definitely took a lot of time to get everything down the way I wanted to and there were some clips that just couldn't fit but either way, I had an amazing time creating this. A lot of these characters are some of my all time favorites and I wanted to talk about what I think makes them so great! Appreciate the support!
What I hate the most about the modern girl bosses or Mary sues is how easily you can fix them and make them into really well interesting characters with just a few tweaks, but the writers are so INCOMPETENT, that they go out of their way to ruin their own creations, or because specific rules studios have now days women can't be put in vulnerable situations...example is to me Rey Palpatine, and to be honest of all mary sues I think she is the lesser bad, but still...........the lack of planning ruin her character....so let's go with what we had, she is a PALPATINE....imagine if instead of treat this as a surprise in the third movie out of the blue, this was incorporated from Force Awakens, and is the twist of that film and worst the rebellion discover this, now they can't TRUST HER, and after she thinks she found a new family is facing with more rejection, and hate just because she is related to the evil emperor who rule the galaxy for so long and hurt so many people including FINN and PO maybe this become the crack that separate them and sent Rey close to the dark side, now she have to deal with this urges and temptation to go to the dark side as a main focus or her history and gaining back the trust of her friends and allies, maybe find Luke who sees the good inside her and teach her that her attachments aren't a flaw or weakness, and this help her to become strong to finally face Kylo Ren (who if the writers where INTELLIGENT she would never had beat him prior the third film).....instead we got what he got. What I found so funny that many of the writers and producers claim they are doing good for female representation....when in reality they do the opposite and back in the days THEY CLAIM women where objectify as just damsels and sexual objects, we got actual good female representation done right, hell the 3 most popular fictional women who everyone normally pointed as strong women done right, Sarah Connor, Ellen Ripley and Princess Leia, all 3 where written by MEN and all 3 have at least a scene where they are objectify in sexual fashion, and still are 10000000 times better written than ANY FEMALE CHARACTER done by these activist writers we have today, so not even that excuse fly, you can make your character what ever you wanted, dress what ever you wanted, show or not skin, be sexy, tall, strong, tiny, feminine, cute no matter and still can create a great character, but these modern writers will put a TON of restrictions that just made their characters come off as wooden and boring and boring looking as well. Characters like Motoko Kusanagi, Chun Li, Bayonetta, Wonder Woman, Misato Katsuragi, Lust, Sarah Connor, can be sexy, vulnerable, strong and relatable no matter what because the writer behind these characters give them plenty of FLAWS and WEAKNESS, we can relate no matter if you are a woman or a man or a child or a grandpa or in between, you enjoy these characters because they are well written, no matter how much boobs they show, they still are great characters non the less, but modern writers will claim that is the evil of MEN putting these women to the male gaze of some sort of toxic masculine idea of a male fantasy and that is BAD.....some BS like that, these modern activist writers can't write a GOOD CHARACTER less a GOOD STRONG FEMALE CHARACTER and will never do unless they start breaking those idiotic restrictions no one cares...women can cry, can talk about their romantic interest with other women what is wrong about that? (Screw the Bechdel test, that shit makes no sense), women can be sexy and cute and feminine, as well as badass and strong, they can have flaws and lose fights to anyone just like any human being, they can learn from others be guide and guide us back, can be motherly, gentle and caring, they can love and be loved, they can serve under a man or a woman or anything in between, they can rebel and be submissive, they can kick butts and get their butts kicked.....they can be HUMAN just like US, these modern writers have totally loss the sight of what matter when ever you write any story, have GOOD CHARACTERS, NO MATTER WHAT GENDER THEY HAVE.
*SLOW CLAPS* this is an absolutely amazing breakdown and I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. Fantastic way to speak about this. You touched so many layers. Appreciate the perspective shared!
You are speaking STRAIGHT UP FACTS
And what's even worse is that, not only is it easy, it's fun to figure that out with an op character because you still want them op as all hell
This is the best and most-intelligently made video essay on Mary Sues I’ve ever seen. Very through and impressive.
My only suggestion would be to talk about examples after each point.
Thank you! Really appreciate that. It was my first attempt at making one of these sorts of videos so I'm glad I was able to get my ideas through well! I'll definitely thin about that suggestion for the future though.
No Mrs. Drigsby from Secret of Nimh? She’s like the most overlooked strong female character ever. 😢
Been a LOOOOOONG time since I've seen that one. Need to rewatch it soon!
loved Secret of NIMH (1), sighs...
The Land Before Time (1), All Dogs Go to Heaven (1), Robin Hood (disney animated film/movie), Flight of Dragons (animated film-movie), etc etc etc, sighs
------------
animated with live-actors movies:
Jessica Rabbit (Who Framed Roger Rabbit)
Holli Would (Cool World)
Lola Bunny (Space Jam)
For two good strong female characters, I think of Jolyne Cujoh or even riza hawkeye. Two badass women who also have character and depth. For once I feel like I’m watching two fully fleshed out characters rather than a brick wall of a person
Absolutely agree here. Jolyne is 100% her own character and person. She takes after Jotaro in some ways but she's NOT her dad, and the series makes it evident. Hawkeye is a badass that's a master in her craft as a gunman. She's well respected by everyone and isn't afraid to check her superior when she thinks he's messing up. Let alone, the love she has for him that is played out in such a subtle way storytelling wise.
Honestly most female characters in Full metal alchemist are great examples of various strong women. For those with romantic interests with those who have none.
Thanks, loved your video btw ☺
@@theanonymousunknown1949 Thank you, appreciate you for watching!
My favorite strong female character with a lot of her struggles being actually tied to her womanhood is Clarice Starling in Silence of the Lambs. I think that movie is way way deeper about talking about the struggles of women in the workplace and part of that is it just SHOWS you. The character never whines about it or constantly lashes out at men or others around her. The director just masterfully SHOWS it to you. That movie is a damn masterpiece lol
Now THAT is an amazing example of that sort of character. That moment where she legitimately gets semen thrown at her was RIDICULOUS and yet, the way she masterfully handles that situation is far greater than 99.9% of people if the roles were reversed.
Great analisys, thank for acknoledge Michiko and Atsuko from Mitchiko to Hatchin. Also Anemone from Eureka Seven, and Faye and Electra from Cowboy Bebop
Thank you! Love ALL of those characters dearly.
Laurie Strode fighting evil itself while just being a teenager trying to babysit the children goes crazy
Will we get a similar video but regarding male characters? Cause this was really well done and helpful, so a sequel with male characters would be nice
You know what, you may have given me a great idea for a next video! Thank you for suggesting this. Really appreciate it!
Speaking of male characters,how about father figures and their affect to the story.amazing video by the way.
@@angeloesguerra555 That's actually a REALLY good idea. Definitely taking notes on that one. Thank you!
Now too be fair, naturally talented prodigies are still different in there own right but are worth mentioning anyway.
It's true because they do have their own struggles. Some people are just have a natural advantage in talent. But I've met a few prodigies in my life that had other problems to adjust to.
I love how you articulate everything in this video, so thank you! I remember having this thought a while ago and it’s bothered me.
If writers truly cared about writing better female characters, there’d be less of a hyper focus to make them “strong” and more of a focus on giving them more depth, realism, and strength that comes along with it.
Amazing analysis and I love all your examples... Weird how cartoons and indie films have managed to figure all this out while big budget movies are waging pointless wars with each other.
My favourite overpowered female character are Yor from Spy x Family. What makes her struggle interesting is that, her struggle is because of her being overpower.
That's another one that's on my list to watch soon. I LOVE her character design.
@@Just_Judah You should ! She is one of the best part in Spy x Family 😂😂
Japanese writers are just so far ahead when it comes to writing women, its unreal
You Sypha Belnades and LENALEE in here!!! You are The GOAT now!!
Love them both, especially Lenalee. One of the best written female shonen side characters actually done right!
@@Just_Judah I just met Luci Christian a couple months ago, it was a dream come true. Lena is a deeply precious lead female of mine whom I’ve put a lot of thought and analysis into through my own writing. I hope that if D.Gray-Man continues to have a future, she’ll have more empowerment amidst her troubling struggles.
@@mylesatmaximum8858 Wow that's pretty amazing! I just hope we'll eventually actually get an ending to D.Gray-Man! I'm so scared of it having the same fate as Berserk, and I really REALLY don't want that :(
Been sick of mary sues recently. Been reflecting in conversations with my family, negatively. I needed this. Thanks.
Thanks for making this video. It was very well made.
Calhoun from wreck it ralph is an honorable mention.
Absolutely. LOVE her character design.
@@Just_Judah where is Luz, Arcee, or Sasha Supergirl
I wouldn’t describe Ripley from “Alien” as a “strong female character”, that would be Ripley from “Aliens”, I would describe Ripley in the first one as “the only crew mate with a functioning brain”. Did you know that the first draft of the Alien Script was written in a way where all of the characters could have been played by anyone of any gender, it wasn’t until the cast had been finalized that the script was rewritten.
Very interesting perspective and even more interesting fun fact on the first draft!
Thank You!! This is so refreshing to hear and see!
Thank you for watching! Really appreciate the support.
As a feminist dissapointed by captain Marvel and She Hulk, and an aspiring writer, I couldn't agree more.
P.S
You are the first movie critic whose video about Snow White I would dare to watch, because I like the way you think. Keep up the good work. 💪
I am so glad you found this appealing. I tried my best to give a balanced, nuanced take on the subject because I really do adore well written female characters and it just pains me to see when newer shows/movies miss the mark on them. Thank you very much, truly appreciate that.
Great analysis, but boy, you're selection of clips for the actual video is incredible! I'm proud how many of these characters I'm familiar with, and it's actually so nice to see so many examples that totally debunk the 'There's no strong women in media' BS that is touted these days.
Thank you so much, truly appreciate the positive feedback. That was literally my goal in creating this. I wanted to showcase a bunch of amazing female characters I've loved my whole life and couldn't even fit all of them lol I don't even hate the badly written ones, I just understand their flaws as characters.
A Mary sue is a character that is central to the story that warps the story around them and the premise of this character is how invested you should be in them
Modern Mary Sues let you know you should be ridiculously invested in them lol
@Just_Judah how do I write an aroace character
Naru from Prey is also a good example. She's a badass lady, but in the beginning she's brash and too eager to show her male peers that she can hunt like the guys. And that made her careless, a great flaw that also makes sense for the character. When she does finally step into her battlemaiden boots, it wasn't to show off to the guys, it was because she realized if she doesn't nail this, everybody in her village is going to die. It's about the same vein as Ellen Ripley or Sarah Connor. Be strong because you have something or someone to protect.
I totally agree with this! In the beginning she's trying so hard to prove "girls can do it too" that she isn't recognizing where she falls short. But when the real danger sets in and she realizes just how much of a threat this new foe is, she prioritizes the good of the village and safety of everyone more. By putting more energy behind finding what the right methods to face their enemy is rather than competing, she actually does surpass the men in the village by outsmarting their opponent. I LOVED that film.
That prey movie was meh.
I really hate when a story has an "it's about time" tone to it's strong female character plot. Like they're the first person to wright a female led action movie.
You're just gonna disrespect Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, The Bride, Wonder Woman, Eowen, Mulon, Dr. Patricia Medford, and half the cast of Avatar by saying they don't exist or don't count?
That I only fave myself a minute to come up with that list. And it's more _diverse_ in terms of personality than most modern girl boss characters.
I LOVEEEE this point. I feel like a lot of modern writers really think they're doing something completely fresh and original. Like they're breaking the mold when they give all the attributes that would be considered negative in male characters to a female character. It's evident they've never seen any of the well written characters you mentioned before.
I'm glad you added scenes from [Claymore]. Those ladies were true "girl bosses". Flawed, angry, and powerful.
This video is absolutely amazing, not only because of the facts that you state but because this applies to both genders as well! It's not that gender is the problem itself, it's the concept or the constant nurturing idea that media gives that woman = weakness, which of course, is absolutely not the case at all.
Avatar: The Last Airbender and Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood have given me some of my fave portrayals of strong female characters.
Its crazy that as a woman, I identify with male characters more now, because they are flawed and they teach me growth and other things, while female characters are shallow Mary Sues who dont change,they are perfect from start to the end and its everyone around them who is evil. Im not like these women,I am not perfect flawless capable of taking down man twice my size. I cry, I fall in love, I am scared....they are not. I will take Martin Riggs from Lethal weapon over any modern "strong female character", thank you very much.
I can digg it. When writing a good character, anyone should be able to identify with them. When they write a character to be specifically representative of a gender as a whole, it can seem like they're trying to force them to be identifiable. I identify with a lot of well written female characters because of the traits and flaws they possess.
Some of my favorite female characters recently have been Gwen from ATSV, Kitty from Puss in Boots and Jinx and Vi from Arcane. The difference between these characters and characters like Rey, She Hulk, and Wendy is that they aren’t perfect girl bosses. They are strong and capable but they still struggle and sometimes even lose which is ok. No one is unbeatable. That’s what makes them relatable. They also show emotion and vulnerability something a lot of female characters lack these days. It’s not weak. It’s human. We all have emotions. We all have bad days that we just need to let everything out. These characters I mentioned make mistakes as well. Gwen in trying to please both the spider society and Miles ended up doing neither and hurt the person she loves most. The entire plot of Arcane revolves around Vi screwing up with Jinx leaving her alone for even just a minute which is all it took. Jinx whole character is a tragedy where no matter what she does she is always inadvertently hurting someone she loves which ends up driving her insane. That’s what separates these characters from the rest
I love this breakdown because it's exactly what I was trying to get across. Relatability goes a long way when it comes to what makes a character memorable and likable. Being strong, independent and skilled is amazing but it's boring if it's not expressed through someone that you get the sense is realistic enough to relate to on some human level. A perfect being with no emotions is or vulnerability is as un-relatable as you can get.
Uzi from Murder Drones is a good example of a female character who happens to be strong. She can be mean and rough, but she cares about the people around her and made a selfless decision to save them.
I really enjoyed the way Jessica Jones is written. She is a badass superhero with some strong powers. But she isn't flat like Captain Marvel. No, she has many flaws, people don't magically love her and she often fails. It's through these struggles we see her grow and ultimately defeat the bad guy.
This does a great job explaining that to write a good female character, you have to write a good character. Great video essay.
Thank you! Appreciate you for watching. I'm really glad you enjoyed it!
the point: write a strong, complex, multi-dimensional character, and then they might be either male of female
EXACTLY! Those well written, multi-faceted characters make good stories. It doesn't matter if they're male or female if they're well written.
I feel like Shuri has some slack on how she's able to go toe to toe with a god and I've got theories as to why I don't think she technically counts as a Mary Sue. She would have known what the Panther's powers are, I feel like all Wakandans would know or know what to expect. As for knowing how to fight, again, I think that could be a cultural thing for Wakandans (given that the Wakandan army is also all-female). She's given superpowers and she can fight a god on somewhat equal grounds. She loses her father, brother and mother (the latter two died within a year of each other). Wakanda is also pretty advanced in technology and Shuri seems to be in charge of said technology, so it makes sense she knows tech that non-Wakandans don't. Shuri doesn't have a teacher in a same sense: her brother, T'Challa, was the previous Black Panther and because his actor died (may he rest), they killed T'Challa off off-screen and therefore he couldn't teach her to be the Black Panther. Her mother never was the Black Panther so she couldn't help Shuri there, either. She also dies which further hurts Shuri because she's just lost her entire family. Could she have been written better? Maybe, but I wouldn't say she's anything like Captain Marvel, Rey or She-Hulk levels of bad writing of women.
You got no likes because nobody cares about that
I dunno, I feel like it would have made more sense if Dora Milaje fought with the Panther suit and knew what to do because of her actual fighting expertise than Shuri. Even though it wouldn't have made sense from a storyline/ connection to the previous Panther point of view. She's not nearly as badly written as Captain Marvel, Rey or She-Hulk but she still could have been written better.
Yes girl, this comment right here. You just said everything that I was going to say. I don't think that Shuri should have been hinted at being a Mary Sue trope either.
The thing with shuri fighting Namor is that she’s not really fighting on “even footing” she gets her ass handed to her and deals a minor injury. She beats him by using her ingenuity, taking him onto land, forcing them out of the water and using the jet engine NOT her bare hands
Something I heard once about writing strong characters, male or female, always stuck with me: it’s not about how much they can dish out, it’s about how much punishment they can take and still get back up.
I have once heard that sometimes misogynistic men/women call female characters who do the impossible as "Mary Sues", yet others, like "John Wick" are fine, apparently. Even though they kinda are a MARY SUE. Just call them bad characters at that point, it's just another misogynistic term...
John Wick is a trained hitman, not yesterday's schoolgirl/accountant/lawyer.
And why does that matter? Why can't that be the case? John wick should've died? Why didn't he? Seems like a Mary Sue. Rey was a girl born to the Skywalkers, very powerful, and clearly capable, why Mary Sue? She Hulk, is a hulk, how is she a Mary Sue?
@@accountrandomnumber182 Being born and learning are different things. While John Wick was gaining experience, Rey got everything for nothing. "She's the Hulk" is just a stupid attempt to hurt men, nothing more. Even in the scenes there it shows up repeatedly. She was stupidly taken and given a power-up because otherwise it wouldn't come out inclusive. I assume you don't need to write the text in syllables so you can clearly read what I wrote?
@@accountrandomnumber182 Skywalkers needed help from predecessors like the Jedi Order or Master Yoda for Luke lmao. Rey had no training and was already on par with kylo ren who trained his entire life 😂 stop defending Rey
@@user-wv2rp6ls7k "But men" is the last resort for the misogynist. You seriously don't want to suspend your disbelief and rather demonize terribly written characters as some feminist plot to ruin the media?