This is probably the best take I have seen on the issue, even better than my own. Well done! I didn't even consider the aspect that I've paid to test and I am not getting to test anything. I've spoken about the lack of test content and the appropriate tools and communication with testers to know what to actually test, but on the consumer-side I was buying access to the game as a product in totality of what it's to become and the access until its launch. What you've said about paying to test but nothing to test really better articulates the concerns I have over the way they are running the tests and brings it more into the consumer focus which aligns with what Narc's video was actually saying. Unfortunately, other big creators in the space have banded together, latching onto false arguments to try and discredit his statement, but there are a lot of smaller creators and players that have been citing the same issues and displeasure. Anyway wanted to throw a comment in because, yeah, this was an excellent and level take on the drama. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it! :) I really wanted to take my time with my thoughts on this one after much of my experiences with SC I think it give me that perspective
Development is rarely a straightforward process. AoC's price to preview doesn't make sense. The disturbing part to me was the referral program where they mention post-launch cash kickbacks for your referrals like a multi-level marketing scheme. That incentivizes people to lie to get referrals. The developer gets their money but can deflect blame to the content creator which they certainly had to have considered when planning the referral program. Banning people from forums to win arguments and suppress criticism and their CEO feuding with people online makes it appear worse. SC referrals are mostly forum badges or at the top end an in-game asset that anyone can buy/earn otherwise and access to a bar no one goes to that has a lovely looking aquarium to stare at in the game. SC items purchased are refundable within 30 days or always for credit if you want to move your money into another ship. How many games lets you essentially trade in old DLC for new DLC without new money spent? Chris Robers has at least learned it's better to not talk too much and their forums allow for plenty of criticism if not too loosely moderated.
These are not development issues; they are marketing ones. They use these vertical slices to get people to spend money on the game. When they can't deliver those things in a timely manner, people will get upset. That is the problem with open alphas, they can excuse anything just because it is an alpha. What they really should be doing is just showing what they already have ready to go.
Ashes of Creation seems like an exciting sandbox player driven MMO. But you gotta admit ... selling access to a game early for a certain amount, and then turning around two years later and selling the same level of access for much cheaper is a dick move. You don't punish your existing supporters by enticing new supporters with a better offer. People can say what they want about Star Citizen and the pricing of their ships; they at least don't drop prices on ships to screw with those who have already bought them.
You get different things for different price points though. Early packages with alpha keys also include cosmetics, digital store currency, and (most importantly) months of paid subscription that the new early access keys lack.
So many people had unrealistic hopes for AOC even when I told them it was going to be an asian grinder they refused to listen and I played Lineage 2 for 4 years, everyone thought it was going to be a western style mmo even though their CEO is a grinder fan. The big controversy I see with the game is that their CEO is getting into petty arguments on Reddit with backers and RUclipsrs which is so unprofessional that it turned me off of testing the game as it shows a serious lack of professionalism and management.
I've been waiting for both Star Citizen and Ashes since 2016. I had high hopes for both originally, but alot of that hope has died. With Star Citizen it was killed by Master modes. With Ashes it was the heavy corruption system penalty. Both games seem to kill game play before it even exists. What I've been looking for is another mmo like Archeage that has a living world with emergent pvp content. Both games still have a chance at providing this, but at this point Star Citizen is the only one I am actually hyped for.
Ashes of Creation owner came on live stream and showed the things in the game. Whereas CIG showed off things for years that they removed from the game or straight up lied. These two things re NOT the same. weird behaviour
I play both games. AoC hasn’t lied they are developing. SC has lied and been less open tbh. I love both games and both are promising. Narc’s video was disingenuous but I understand the frustrations. 2023 Jerads promises that didn’t get delivered on bugged me but I got over it and came backz
issue seems to be with you not understanding the difference between a promise and a target. they've been very clear that any targets they give are subject to change.
@@phxbadash so you are ok being lied to. lol goes ti show like Asmongold said, there are some people that live eating shit. and thats ok to be a shit easter, but dont tell me it taste like strawberries
@@JDJ1213 There are no lies. As he said, they make targets; targets aren't promises. A lot of people literally do not understand how development works and in lieu of that make up flagrant excuses to be negative.
@@JDJ1213 they didn't lie. there are a lot of unknowns in game dev especally slow when you are dealing with new tech. they give out targets based on the info they have at the time and also are very clear that it's not a promise but many backers seem incapable of differentiating between targets and promises.
What you buy with SC is also just alpha access, because there is no game. If SC releases in 10 years, you will get game access, yes. But that's a big if.
![FILMMAKER REACTS: STAR CITIZEN | [ALL SHIP ADS - PART 1!!] | ARE YOU SERIOUS?!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-qR1TAjc8FQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![FILMMAKER REACTS: STAR CITIZEN | [ALL SHIP ADS - PART 1!!] | ARE YOU SERIOUS?!](/img/tr.png)
Narc just made an "I quit so everybody else should also" video. Aoc is in alpha and the development team is working on it.
hahaha i was waiting for literally anyone from SC to react to this
And you got the one guy with the IQ of a fish and cant even talk properly. Big L guys
This is probably the best take I have seen on the issue, even better than my own. Well done! I didn't even consider the aspect that I've paid to test and I am not getting to test anything. I've spoken about the lack of test content and the appropriate tools and communication with testers to know what to actually test, but on the consumer-side I was buying access to the game as a product in totality of what it's to become and the access until its launch. What you've said about paying to test but nothing to test really better articulates the concerns I have over the way they are running the tests and brings it more into the consumer focus which aligns with what Narc's video was actually saying. Unfortunately, other big creators in the space have banded together, latching onto false arguments to try and discredit his statement, but there are a lot of smaller creators and players that have been citing the same issues and displeasure.
Anyway wanted to throw a comment in because, yeah, this was an excellent and level take on the drama. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it! :) I really wanted to take my time with my thoughts on this one after much of my experiences with SC I think it give me that perspective
you cant be that thick ?
@@P1DZz I mean it's average girth but I don't get many complaints.
@@P1DZz might need more gym selfies, I s'pose.
Solid take Zyvhur o7
Thanks! :)
Development is rarely a straightforward process.
AoC's price to preview doesn't make sense. The disturbing part to me was the referral program where they mention post-launch cash kickbacks for your referrals like a multi-level marketing scheme. That incentivizes people to lie to get referrals. The developer gets their money but can deflect blame to the content creator which they certainly had to have considered when planning the referral program. Banning people from forums to win arguments and suppress criticism and their CEO feuding with people online makes it appear worse.
SC referrals are mostly forum badges or at the top end an in-game asset that anyone can buy/earn otherwise and access to a bar no one goes to that has a lovely looking aquarium to stare at in the game. SC items purchased are refundable within 30 days or always for credit if you want to move your money into another ship. How many games lets you essentially trade in old DLC for new DLC without new money spent? Chris Robers has at least learned it's better to not talk too much and their forums allow for plenty of criticism if not too loosely moderated.
Yeah I really think Steven should not personally moderate
These are not development issues; they are marketing ones. They use these vertical slices to get people to spend money on the game. When they can't deliver those things in a timely manner, people will get upset.
That is the problem with open alphas, they can excuse anything just because it is an alpha. What they really should be doing is just showing what they already have ready to go.
Agreed!
Ashes of Creation seems like an exciting sandbox player driven MMO. But you gotta admit ... selling access to a game early for a certain amount, and then turning around two years later and selling the same level of access for much cheaper is a dick move. You don't punish your existing supporters by enticing new supporters with a better offer. People can say what they want about Star Citizen and the pricing of their ships; they at least don't drop prices on ships to screw with those who have already bought them.
Yet.
You get different things for different price points though. Early packages with alpha keys also include cosmetics, digital store currency, and (most importantly) months of paid subscription that the new early access keys lack.
Not unexpected. Years ago I told the AOC fans that their company clearly learned some valuable lessons from CIG's playbook.
you have to be delusional to think this isnt all just crap and Narcs just a mental case
I’m telling everyone zyvhur told me to sell my ships on the grey market XD
Wait NOOOOO lol
Better now than later hmmmm :)
So many people had unrealistic hopes for AOC even when I told them it was going to be an asian grinder they refused to listen and I played Lineage 2 for 4 years, everyone thought it was going to be a western style mmo even though their CEO is a grinder fan. The big controversy I see with the game is that their CEO is getting into petty arguments on Reddit with backers and RUclipsrs which is so unprofessional that it turned me off of testing the game as it shows a serious lack of professionalism and management.
id rather him set shit straight then a big CEO not telling us anything.
I've been waiting for both Star Citizen and Ashes since 2016. I had high hopes for both originally, but alot of that hope has died. With Star Citizen it was killed by Master modes. With Ashes it was the heavy corruption system penalty. Both games seem to kill game play before it even exists. What I've been looking for is another mmo like Archeage that has a living world with emergent pvp content. Both games still have a chance at providing this, but at this point Star Citizen is the only one I am actually hyped for.
I wish AoC the best of luck but I think SC has the uniqueness to stand apart from other MMOs
AoC is trash
Ashes of Creation owner came on live stream and showed the things in the game. Whereas CIG showed off things for years that they removed from the game or straight up lied. These two things re NOT the same. weird behaviour
What has cig showed for years that they removed from the game?
I play both games. AoC hasn’t lied they are developing. SC has lied and been less open tbh. I love both games and both are promising. Narc’s video was disingenuous but I understand the frustrations. 2023 Jerads promises that didn’t get delivered on bugged me but I got over it and came backz
crazy to say that because SC is one of the most transparent projects I've ever seen
issue seems to be with you not understanding the difference between a promise and a target. they've been very clear that any targets they give are subject to change.
@@phxbadash so you are ok being lied to. lol goes ti show like Asmongold said, there are some people that live eating shit. and thats ok to be a shit easter, but dont tell me it taste like strawberries
@@JDJ1213 There are no lies. As he said, they make targets; targets aren't promises. A lot of people literally do not understand how development works and in lieu of that make up flagrant excuses to be negative.
@@JDJ1213 they didn't lie. there are a lot of unknowns in game dev especally slow when you are dealing with new tech. they give out targets based on the info they have at the time and also are very clear that it's not a promise but many backers seem incapable of differentiating between targets and promises.
What you buy with SC is also just alpha access, because there is no game.
If SC releases in 10 years, you will get game access, yes. But that's a big if.
It's not really a big if at all. lol.
Narc is a lier!