Vedika Rastogi: Woke Culture HAS Gone Too Far - 1/8 | Oxford Union
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- Опубликовано: 11 янв 2023
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Initially used as a term to empower awareness of systemic inequalities in society, wokeism is now a deeply divisive term. The media's perpetuation of woke culture has made this term a buzzword. For some, being woke is part of the antidote of acknowledging the instruments of oppression. For others, it is a dangerously absolutist ideology, a sort of reverse McCarthyism, corroding liberal society and encouraging self-imposed victimhood. Is the 'war on woke' a legitimate phenomenon, or a reactionary distraction from the real problems being 'woke' addresses?
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the Union voted 89-60 in favour of the motion “This House believes woke culture has gone too far.”
A landslide but it didn't go far enough. The UK might well be the wokest country in the world. Where is the government on this issue? Are they ALL in the 60% who don't think wokeness has gone too far?
What, no Spoiler Alert?
@@BS-vx8dg Giving the result doesn't spoil the arguments of the debate.
@@sozeytozey Oh, you're quite correct. I was speaking tongue-in-cheek.
Scary that 60 still voted against...
You can tell the woke culture has gone too far when the official oxford union channel is afraid to put the results of a debate regarding woke culture in the description of their respective videos. And a random commenter has to do that job.
89-60 in favor
The woke mob are legion
@@critterwyatt Better than Cambridge!
Woke - When you see racism and injustice under every rock, behind every tree, under every bed and in every closet. When you see racism and injustice everywhere except within your own self righteous behavior.
The ends justify the means. The end are conformity / communism / persecution and imprisonment; the means are accusations that the accusers consider to be the sole evidence sufficient for conviction / imprisonment. Study the French Revolution (1790s). You'll see the exact same miscreant behavior.
👏
This!🙌🙌🙌🙌
Nailed it!
@@ruddo1970 You win the internet!
She nailed it when she called woke culture, "performative".
Agreed
Arguably, that's the Judith Butler 101. They are just doing as they are told....
Yep, like this debate and your comment.
@@weaq84 You naive fool.
@@bobbyuk5866 Good counter-argument
'The working class don't want communism, it's just mind games for the middle class.'
Johnny 'Rotten' Lydon.
Capitalism is the same side of the rotten coin.
Middle-class leftists openly despise the working class.
An-archy: no rulers
Revolutions are ALWAYS led by the middle classes. The working classes are inherently conservative because they aspire to be rich. The working classes are NOT revolutionary
Excellent job Oxford Union in putting meaningful conversation and content into public spaces. And I agree, the Woke Culture has gone too far.
Mr Woke Britain would be sure to be a middle class trans man, climate activist who updates their Instagram pronouns and TikTok 4 times a day minimum, whilst glued to a motorway somewhere
Ahahaha
Don't forget purple hair and if a female,with numerous cats 😂 ahahaha
😀😀😀😀😀
Forgiveness - a key characteristic that is lacking entirely those that pretend to have social justice in mind. Society must be able to forgive, everyone makes "mistakes", or transgresses. We should not be burned permanently, that way society collapses far quicker.
So get rid of them woke criminal justice reforms and throw away them keys 🤣
@@amsterdamcowboy9738 Thanks for making my point for me... 👍
Thankyou Oxford Union. You never cease to post interesting material.
God Speed
Pity they can't work out how to post it as one video...
Society ceased making sense to me a couple of years ago. in an attempt to get to the bottom of things i have spent hundreds of hours on literary theory, from Homer to Derrida.
The post modern literary theorists are fairly divorced from reality. There are some truths in Foucault but there's a lot of non truths. Derrida is just totally off the wall.
If these ideas stayed in the field of literary theory things would be fine..but someone decided the power of language was more important than logic.
Logic is the only tool you have at your disposal. ~ are there students at Oxford University that don't beleive in logic?
And postmodernists refuse to define anything. If you can't ask questions about something it is probably a lie.
We all die. Everything is meaningless.
@@joshuataylor3550 things don't need to have any meaning, i think we can do ok without it. I think logic and reason are more necessary.
What of Foucault, specifically is "totally off the wall"?
With which of his propositions do you take issue?
In what way do postmodernists appear to be "divorced from reality"? Can you provide examples of all postmodernists refusing to define anything?
I agree that society makes no sense... a realignment is underway...
@@joshuataylor3550 if in the future whatever you do won't matter then it also goes the other way. Whatever will matter in the future should have no effect on the now.
Why not post the entire debate in one video?
They make money from youtube ads this way
@@chas766 frustrating. I wanted to just watch the whole thing in one go.
Thanks Chas
The speeches have been posted on the 'OxfordUnion' channel page [in the order in which they were presented].
Very frustrating no fluidity
@@chas766 not if you use brave browser, like a big brain.
Amazing. How much fun is this? A forum to chat raise issues in a light hearted way. More of this!!!
These Oxford debates have been going on for decades. If you attended history classes, get a tuition refund from the college that handed you your diploma, and then look up the Oxford debates in the 1930s that shocked all of Britain.
Very brave young woman to stand up and speak like that. I recently spoke at my own wedding as the groom, aged 30, significantly older than her… I wasn’t in front of cameras, famous people or any opposition… I was shaking with nerves
I'm the same way. What's worse for me is I turn a crimson red when I have had to speak in front of a crowd or class.
You can feel the heat rising through your face.
So irritating, I wish I could turn it off somehow.
@@01What10 only way to turn it off is to do it often
@@tomben6180 Just get in there and jump in the deep end., huh? Makes sense. Thanks for the advice :)
@@01What10 Yep, only way to do it is do it as regularly as possible. I’ve done it at work a few times and it gets easier.
@@tomben6180 That's good to know. It's such a strange feeling. I've never had a problem talling to people. Have had many retail and public facing jobs. Never had a problem before, until the amount of people looking at me hits maybe double digits and above.
Must be a psychological thing. Some people thrive under the attention. I've always felt uncomfortable being the center if attention though.
Why can’t they post the whole debate? Not chunked up? Some of us have an attention span that can cope with it.
Ermm... isn't Oxford leading wokery?
Oxford Union is not controlled by oxford university, and is independent of them (though they are quite restrictive, and to my understanding, are open to all students and alumni of Oxford University, but are not open to the general public at large).
@@timmietimmins3780 I know but as a rule anyrhing 'Oxford' is woke. The fact 60 voted for cultural marxism and anti white racism is telling
It's well-documented that the "elite" universities (Cambridge, Yale and Harvard are blatant examples) are more Woke than all the other universities; which, in turn, are more Woke than almost everything else (except some well-known "Wokewashing" corporations). There's a strong sociological and class connection between being genuinely privileged (i.e., not simply being white) and being Woke. One explanation for that is obvious: IMMENSE GUILT.
The problem with social justice is not the performative wokeness the ideology naturally engenders, but the underlying post-modernist assumptions that underpin the entire enterprise. This presentation is an example of missing the forest for the trees.
Spot on ❤
right
What are the post-modernist assumptions? Social justice seems like a thoroughly modernist narrative, on the face of it.
The problem is their actual objective, which is usually quietly hidden in their means.
Their objective, as they say, it's the destruction to any standards that the masses may have.
@@lloydgush well, if you realize that screwing children is the bottom line, you're right.
I have a good definition of being "Woke" - it's to believe that somehow, you have a better moral ground, more care, more logic, more interest or a better perception of the world around you than anyone else.
That is the problem, together with all the second hand, criminal ideology you sustain. not only you stand for such criminal totalitarian views, but you also dare to think that in any way you are right or know better than everyone else in the planet.
Your views and approach are almost as criminal as the regimes on which side you stand for. You are not there yet, but give you time and space, you will surely get there.
And you will use any sort of violence to get there. Sounds familiar? because it is.
There. Any questions?
This is the biggest example of projection I've ever seen in text form. You literally describe such staunchly held beliefs whilst also clearly highlighting your own.
FYI normal people read this and just think first point seems normal then criminal ideology comes out, more mention of criminality, totaltarian, violence and we just think what the fuck are you even talking about.
The original definition is better.
As an example humans have induced severe climate change isn’t woke it’s fact
"...it's to believe that somehow, you have a better moral ground, more care, more logic, more interest or a better perception of the world around you than anyone else."
Basically relativism.
I have a lot of sympathy as I know it's not easy presenting in this way, but It's so painful having to watch someone read every single word from a prepped document, you literally miss half of the arguement.
Yeah, that was rough. It's like printing off a chatgpt argument and reading it in front of people...poorly.
As an introvert, who had to learn how to speak publicly, and being very uncomfortable doing it. What I will say is, it’s a learned skill, it’s uncomfortable at the beginning, but invaluable in the end. She’s learning in at a much younger age than I did so full credit to her.
She is very young and speaking publicly can be very hard. Look at her laminated pages, they have been handled time and again and clearly with a fair amount of anxiety. I think she did her best and I know her abilities will grow along with experience and exposure.
Put your headphones in and your phone down 👍
Yeah exactly this is not a speech ! I am disappointed in this regard
Performative == Virtue Signalling
Brilliant articulation..
There is a further step to it. Social competition. You signal virtue in order to establish yourself in the hierarchy of your peers. The objective is the virtue points you earn by screeching in outrage, not any underlying cause or whatever forgotten-in-an-hour outrage bait was used to earn those.
@@elgrandjefe4661 the thought that there is an earning action/function further reinforces my theory that self-interest guides and likely amplifies this in society. Successful earners catalyze others to follow in a like manner. In a world where meritocracy threatens the lazy, this may be the only alternative.
Every step in the wrong direction is a step too far.
Is there a complete, long-form version of this debate available?
Vedika🤗So well said!
Well said!!!! I couldnt have said it better. At what point does it end.
Oh - hello again- the worm has turned I see! haha 😆 ♥️
Thank you for this!
Finding this debate is an absolute godsend. The woke will not debate. Thank you for steel manning their positions to further expose the rusted foundation. 🇺🇸👍
You have to exist to debate I guess. Who knew?
This is wonderful.
She has potential, just ditch the note. Train your speech and learn to improvise.
I was thinking the exact same. It was a good speech content-wise, but the reading from notes really disrupted the flow and made it almost impossible to stay engaged. Then again, she is young - and we all have to start somewhere! :)
A little too plummy for me.
Anyone else think of chocolate, when they see all those brown squares on the wall?
She basically argued that the problem is that wokeists are virtue signaling rather than actually bringing about a cultural revolution. She seems to be a proponent of woke culture.
Wokeness blames everyone for everything in the past from people so self righteous & morally superior they can't see the faults in their own ways.
5:48 - Who can champion these issues the loudest. Like 95% of diversity representations on British media are Afro-Caribbeans, who are about 40% smaller a population group compared to British Asians.
Propaganda
I feel the fact that we’re even speaking on this woke thing is gonna get us to the point where we understand exactly what wrong and right is and it’ll be in plain sight
Terrifying that one can side with a false and created narrative in the face of facts.
3:2 ratio here shows us where we are and which path we're heading towards but reinforces that: The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Anyone with a cursory understanding of history understands that Woke culture can only take us to one place - Hell on Earth. Millions will be murdered by the people if given the chance.
This is a similar ideology to that of Mao in the Great Leap Forward in China, or that of the Bolsheviks in Russia. The parallels are astonishing and impossible to ignore.
If we allow it, the Woke WILL bring about another holocaust. I am not over exaggerating. This is the inevitable end they will take us to.
Part of becoming an adult is realizing that rich idiots at places like oxford run the world. No amount of facts can counter the shit they shovel. Gullible morons will always line up to eat.
@@amsterdamcowboy9738 Another part of being an adult is to demonstrate to these indoctrinated (or soon to be indoctrinated) kids, some facts.
It's hard work but every little bit counts as it has for me and my family. Independent thinking may be somewhat 'outlawed' by ones peers on social media, but we have to push back not with anger but with facts.
Is there a site where we can read up their articles?
Oxford get with the times, put the debate on one big long video
I think is a purpose behind this. This way you can see the views and the approval rate for every speaker individually.
@@mahae_16 why not do both...clips and the full thing
@@betterthanhendrix because it will be possible to see the approval rate, I just explained above
They must have put her first, to spare her the humiliation of trying to follow Konstantin Kisin...
@Tancred73 Konstantin Kisin was the most brilliant speech of the whole debate, and its a reason it went viral. Cut the smearing woke idiot!
As an active member of our high school debating club in the early 60's in southern Africa, here's a suggestion for some of the so called debaters - After the 4 debaters and a date had been chosen, the debate topic picked, we the debaters were then told to prepare to debate for each side. It was only at the start of the debate that each team was then told which side they were to debate for. It seems to me that the woke debaters here just might learn a thing or two from this approach.
I was thinking how Lyndsay would debate for opposing side
I've watched a few debates on this channel. One of the few places you get steel man arguments on both sides!
Personal attacks do not make a cogent argument.
This is under Oxford level!! "Social justice" just does NOT exist: If justice gets social, it´s not justice anymore.
Huh? Justice is social by necessity.
Morality and justive have grounds in societal norms
@@hughmac13 Aha, so if 100 million people on this globe are starving right now, we also have to kill all other human beings to achieve "justice"...
@@wolfsettgast4945 This is incoherent. Are you mentally unwell?
@@hughmac13 Strange, all others get the point. You must be quite unique..😉
How many of the audience took the yes door?
This glosses over something I wish was adressed more: the name "woke" itself. The name of a movement is its core, it's foundations, and the name of the woke movement is one of the most pompous, self- important descriptions i've ever heard.
Think about it... If one is woke, and others are not, that implies one is awake and others are asleep. It's so insulting to anyone who disagrees with you!
It's like if I started a political party and called it "the geniuses"... How arrogant is that? If at the end of a debate, we agreed to disagree, I would end-up saying "well, of course we're going to disagree on some things, that's why i'm a Genius, and you're not! Not everyone can be Geniuses... And you're just one of those people who will simply never be a Genius."
What I just said there is completely polite, technically-speaking, but you still want to punch me in the face! Just because of what i chose to call my movement! Wokeness suffers from that tremendously, and I bet it's also influenced its own members into adopting the condescending tone inherent in the title.
I'm sorry, but constant mistakes when reading made it a very diffcult thing to listen..was she nervous or unprepared?
Completely agree, it's quite annoying!
I hope the rest of this debate doesn’t shape up to be left vs left. These arguments don’t tackle some ideologies, just the methods and tactics used by woke people. Hopefully we’ll see some people from the right tackling issues such as transgenderism rather than discussing the best ways to continue supporting gender ideology!
89-60 is a sad reflection on the ethos,morality and general senselessness of people who are purportedly among the best thinkers and analysts in our culture .
These guys are so well spoken. I am impressed but honestly I would rather listen or read cs lewis or tolkien
1:56 the roasting of the opposition speakers begins.
Imagine if there were an independent Woke country that spoke a new language that was gender neutral. 🤔
Except for nouns that refer to the their subject's binary human sex, English is already gender neutral. But if y'all want to start a country somewhere else, us normies would love to point and laugh while it immediately implodes on itself.
@@ericfeldkamp3788 But wait i thought you "normies" already made society implode in on itself? 😂 I think your missing the reality that if all those people started a country based on mutual respect it would be a utopia compared to what we have rn . Grow up and think before you speak lol.
Nobody would care and everybody would be satisfied 😏
Welcome to Finland. Our language is already gender neutral. It doesn't have gendered pronouns. And I'm actually really happy for that, because nobody demands me to state "my pronouns". Some woke idiots do put their ENGLISH pronouns in their social media profiles, though... but the funny thing is they would have to change our language into non-gender neutral to be able to force people to "declare their pronouns".
She argues against wokeness with woke reasons. Shows just how far it has seeped into the culture. Pretty sad.
I find listening to glitchy reading from any adult very arduous
James Lindsay! yay! :)
Plus, the those FOR the motion’s videos have gotten about 50,000 Likes to about 3,000 Likes by the Against. We are the Majority. Not by color or ethnicity, but by morals and beliefs.
👏👏👏👏👏👏
I thought Woke was when Alex Scott presents MOTD?
I am sick and tired of these virtue signalling crowd.
Is this an old debate just posted? Lindsay is not banned on Twitter so this girl either did a lousy job in preparing or they failed to mention how old this debate is.
A director of Walmart doesn't mean Walmart as a company donated to anti-trans bills.
She needs to learn her argument better this is like an audiobook not a debate😂😂
Dude, I was just thinking this. When it comes to prepared speeches, practicing the speech weeks ahead of time is borderline mandatory. I feel like she just finished writing this the night before.
Poor form reading verbatim from wrinkled notes, and she can barely even do that
UNIQUE DEBATE INDEED
I need the data
I would have rehearsed my lines and tried to read less of my notes.....and would have kept my noted neat and tidy...I am so un-woke.
Women do not want "Mr woke" I learned that during 1997-2002 before the term even existed. I served my time on the left.
who won the vote in the end?
it's in the video's title ;)
this is by manipulation. The perforative aspect of it would not have come about without social media and the way it has been designed to elicit this.
Vedika Rastogi This House Believes Woke Culture Has Gone To Far - 1/8 Oxford Union
Unless I'm mistaken she's meant to be arguing that 'woke culture has gone too far'. Why, then, is she arguing the polar opposite? She's outflanking the woke from the left by complaining that people don't follow through on their rhetoric. Is she a Tory, by any chance?
She's introducing the debate. I can tell by your lack of comprehension that you must be a Labour voter?
So what if a director at Walmart contributed to something, that's his right. I'm a director at my company, my political or charitable contributions are none of their business.
Did she make that bracelet with items she found in the stationary cabinet?
Yeah you see this is why you didn’t get into Oxford 😂
@@clairee4939 Explain
Why not just the full debate instead of split into 8 parts?
No one here knows what they are talking about. Everyone here has done too much Twitter.
Instead of talking about wokeism going too far, let’s just point out everyone’s failures according to my opinion, so I don’t have to speak about this topic, at this prestigious institution.
"asexual rights activist" LOL
The fact that she stumbles over every second sentence causes me stress and makes it hard for me to pay attention to what she says. She has room to improve her public speaking.
Couldn't get through it. Not interested in being read to by someone stumbling over their text.
adrenaline is a hell of a drug
She's so strongly against performative activism that she didn't "perform" her speech, but rather read it. Even if I'm against "wokism" (which I am) it's still important to present a case as a persuasive presenter, not a stumbling and hesitant reader. Egads.
Go woke, lose debates at Oxford. Wait, it doesn’t rhyme
it is so difficult to listen to her because she keeps stumbling when reading her notes!!
Extraordinary that in a supposedly advanced society such as the Oxford Union, in 2022 (with MeToo and the many complaints against the male human being's toxic masculinity and his 'male gaze'), while the men are still modestly dressed, with only hands and face exposed, the women still opt for the naked look, exposing bare arms/shoulders/more than just the cleavage, and even legs/thighs. A bit difficult, one would think, to sustain the many sexist accusations against men, since no one has forced them to dress that way.
THIS
Yuck
Well said.
If she loves you, she'll wear a Burka!
@@garyphisher7375 Genius! Who needs wisdom or nuance anymore it's 2023!
I know what FF is thinking. Disgusting.
It's a shame students are not encouraged to present without reading their script. Use prompters yes, but read less.
I think I'd be hardpressed not to slap someone who said "asexual rights". That much nonsense packed into 2 words is astounding.
btw she wrote the whole speech on paper lol
asexual rights? what are those?
Whatever the result, the principal speaker for the motion was poor. Surely, to engage the audience & attract support the speaker should be creating a superb, hard-hitting performance? She didn’t.
She might have saved us all considerable time by restrictng her presentation to two words:Hamline University.
lol 0:50...
"mr woke"
.... reminds me of Mr Booze
Mr Woke
Mr Woke
Mr dbl "u" oh kay eee!
You'll go broke with Mr Woke...
Facts always beats idiots .
She made great points, but constantly stumbled over her words. Young people try to talk too fast and it all becomes a blur. I learned early on that if you are making a public speech you need to talk slowly and precisely so that people can digest what you are saying. It's a bit like trying to read the license plate on a car going past you at 200 mph. I didn't have a university education let alone one at one of the most prestigious universities in the world, but I am far more legible than this. Slow your address down.
J
Is your argument consists of ad-hominems then you have no argument
I think it’s weird to talk about trans support when conservatives and republicans are much more likely to side with the opinion that gender transition is immoral in nature. You can use that trans topic to push ur narrative that activism is performative but at least leftists will stand firm in equality and support for LGBTQ+ while right leaning people can’t wrap their heads around pronouns
woke culture is plebian
Wow her terrible speaking ability really undermined some really good points. She should try beta blockers next time she needs to do this
She needs to get some lessons on public speaking. Otherwise I'm sure what she was trying to say was interesting. Long complex words does not make the best of speeches. Lost opportunity in making your point saddly.
Call me old fashioned - at 33 - but isn't it traditional for an Oxford speaker to be able to _speak?!_ Honestly, this reminded me of a primary school reading lesson in terms of articulacy & fluency.
I fought it sounded ok 2 me.
I hope that comment gave you a little buzz of superiority Phillip. Just remember you're fallible and mortal too.
@@joshuataylor3550 how do you know he's drinking?
She's young - let her be nervous!
@@Robert-Downey-Syndrome had me rolling with this comment lol!!!!
Not really on topic of the debate, but why is there an asexual rights movement. I don't think that anyone really cares if someone is asexual or not?
I don’t know either and I am asexual! I have experienced an incident but generally don’t go around feeling oppressed or victimised. I think that woman probably wanted to be in with LGBT+ ideas and the militancy being pushed by Stonewall.
Wow it's really boring to listen to someone just read a piece of paper. Why is she up there if she doesn't know her stuff enough to speak off the top of her head? She's bursting out of that dress by the way.
She makes good points but speaks terribly. It's very hard to follow her
True
Her argument was on point. but true, i think she was drunk