JK-BMS go home! Here comes the new BMS King. Wait.... is this a JBD BMS??? 😱
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- Yes, it is true: this JBD BMS from Muller Energy is indeed a tick better than the good old JK-BMS. At least when we compare the 4s version because this JBD BMS is only available for 12V batteries. For now...
The Muller Energy JBD BMS is massive, has 250A continues current, a 5A active balancer, a displ... wait, did I say 5A active balancer?! Seriously?
Lets put this BMS to the test and see how good the balancer function works. It's hard to top the JK after all...
All info to the Muller Energy JBD BMS. Not an affiliate link, neither am I getting any incentives if you should consider buying this BMS (just to counter some of the comments...) 😏
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Great video, thanks very much Andy! 🐸🐸🐸🐸
It has taken a lot of effort to get the BMS to where it is, so I'm very happy that it was well received.
To be honest, it was actually developed for our next batch of batteries. But then we thought that there might be an interest by the DIY community, so we made it available to the public.
We needed a 250A (to be able to run a 3000VA inverter) Smart BMS and there aren't that many on the market and those out there didn't quite have the features that we were after which is why we created our own.
Some people have mentioned that it's not cheap and of course, I'm not going to argue with that, but I actually think it's quite reasonably priced when you compare it to the locally availble alternatives that are also priced in AUD and come with GST and an Australian warranty. Locally a 250A Daly BMS is around $300 and that's without a screen and only a ~40mA passive balancer.
Also Andy, yes, you're correct, it is a heating connector. Not something commonly used in Australia, but given the very small difference in cost, we chose to include it as it might appeal to some people in Australia and people that live in colder climates.
As for international shipping, we will offer it, but I'm just trying to work out the cheapest and quickest way to facilliate this, please give us a couple of days and we'll have it available (I'll also get back to those of you that enquired via email/message).
Finally, on the 16s version, it's definitely a posibility, I could even envisage a 8s-20s LiFePO4/NMC version. We'll give it a few days to gauge any potential interest in this and then decide whether it's financially viable. This version would obvioulsy also have a CAN BUS connector available.
Thanks for all the comments, even the slightly critical ones, it's always good to get feedback!
Fantastic product and development effort. Is there any thought to including a CAN BUS Sunny SMA output on the 4S so the unit can communicate with Victron and Wakespeed? The RS485 method would be too slow to permit shutdown of an alternator prior to the BMS shutting off charging and risking alternator damage. Thanks
I may be interested in 2 8s for my BYD 24v LFP batteries as they charge to about 3.38v 1-3 cells take a jump to anything from 3.55-3.91v, I’m going to have to limit the charge for the moment until I have a solution. They rest evenly around 3.3x, so odd, these batteries act like adolescent children above 3.38v! Edit, I’m in the USA.
Considering that is a kit and comes with your warranty, it is a fair price, even if it costs double as the Jbd sells.
Adding the heating port to be used in cold climates was also a smart ideea.
If you could ask Jbd to make one model of 300 Ah (or higher) for 8S and 16S, that would be amazing.
You would smash the diy electric boats market with that if you can mantain a decent price (under the Orion Jr 2).
I would buy both models, since I need the 8S for the camper box (8kw inverter on 8x304Ah Eve cells) and the 16S for my future electric boat with a 18kw motor.
Hope you will find a way to ship them internationally (I am from Romania, Eu). If not, I will still buy them trough my brother who lives in Melbourne.
For the heater terminal... Don't sell yourself short. Can you imagine Australian based companies who want to deploy lithium battery based storage in Sub-Zero conditions? Probably a bit of opportunity for Antarctic stations, ships, other sites which experience Sub-Zero weather with administration in Australia.
I have a 24v (in bus) & a 48v (home) system, a 250A version would be nice, but I can see a high want/need for 200A & 300A versions in the 24v & 48v systems too. I see a higher trend towards the 24v & 48v gear now with the DIY solar on/off grid and in the caravan & 4WD communities also. It was a good move to include provisions for heating as many caravaners are likely to encounter very cold climates at some time.
My BMS’s all have heating functionality (just in case) but I have not felt a need to hook this up as I am in a fairly tropic climate. Looks nice, definitely bring on the 24v & 48v gear.
I can see wifes all over the world excited to get a Muller BMS just as much as getting a toothbrush for christmas.
Well, if I now sell a BMS for each toothbrush that husband's would have given to their wife's for Christmas, I might sell an additional 2 or 3 units! 😁
Curling iron and blow dryer 👍
@@mullerenergy so, the big question..., when will the 16S be launched...?
Electric tooth brush with fibrator function??? 🤣😆😁😄😃😀
@@mullerenergy 16s version please :) whooo
Good afternoon! I am all the same a supporter of JK-BMS 4S-8S. After all, it is for 3 types of batteries, for all voltages up to 8s and a large balancing current. She does not need anything additional to hang for balancing. In this new BMS, it should be noted good threads for screws and a diameter of M8, as well as a beautiful radiator.
A couple points.
1) When the BMS switch is turned on, is there any current limiter that reduces the surge current while the inverter capacitors charge up? If not, how hard is the surge on the internals of the BMS and the capacitors of the inverter? (Some folks claim the surge can damage the caps and the fets).
2) When building a battery, mounting and inclosing the BMS is a PITA. Having a dangling Bluetooth connector makes it worse..... adding an active balancer makes it even more of a pain.... and then there is all the extra wiring. This would be a much more attractive BMS for me if the BT and Active balancer were integrated.
Thanks for the questions.
1) No, there's no current limiting, once discharge is enabled. If this inrush current damages your inverter, it's the inverter that has a design flaw, in my opinion. But I have not heard of this happening at all, neither with a BMS (we sell BMS versions with this functionality) or with any of our batteriers.
As for the MOSFETs, I'm assuming you're talking about the ones on the BMS? The BMS is built to withstand a short circuit. If it can do that, it can handle the inrush current of an inverter as well.
2) I'll take this one onboard for future BMS developments, thanks! The advantage is that this solution is more modular, making it easier to change things in the future. Plus, some people like to extend the Bluetooth cabling and run it outside the battery box, if reception is an issue.
@@mullerenergy Agree 100% re the BT.
I would definitely extend it to have the BT module in a better position.
BT range is very limited when in a metal battery box such as in my caravan.
Andy, I really like you're unbiased video's and I'm always looking forward to the next. With this video I had a slightly different feeling especially the unbiased part of it. Whether or not one is better than the other I will leave out of the discussion here. To make a good comparison we would need a price comparison and that was lacking here for example. Also the 5% discount seems to suggest ... although I could be completely wrong. Keep up the good work just this one could have been a bit better.
Same feeling here.
Totally agree. I tend to filter out the evaluative comments and just focus on the facts/evidence. Then you can make your own determination of which is better.
But I guess some other people want/looking for a recommendation......
Saying the JK has a smaller radiator it’s irelevant as it has enough mosfets that they don’t produce enough heat, also JK can deliver the stated power, etc this literally was the first time where i feel like the comments are not based on actual facts. (The only downside on JK is that it only balances one cell at time).
@@laurentiu1689 when the effectiveness of a system is good enough it will produce less heat. That huge cooling sink needs cooling and thus more space. I find the overall size and extra's a bit overkill. What's next ? A bms that's larger than a 4s battery?
I have no financial gain if someone buys this BMS or not. I was asking them if they want to do a Christmas special with 5% off. I'm not getting any affiliate payment nor other perks, nothing. I've got no interest in supporting this company nor do I know them.
The price is what they charge, not me. I'm not recommending buying this BMS or any other. It's a technical review to show what can be done if working together with the Chinese manufacturer and adding additional function like we always wanted.
Andy, great video.
A couple of comments:
First, I found if you lower the charge voltage to 13.8V or so, you will decrease the number of HV disconnects required to achieve balance - it will achieve balance with a slightly lower average peak voltage on the over voltage cell. I know that you like to use that per cell voltage level on you main banks anyhow.
Second, I have been looking now for a while for a balancer like that HELTEC (or whatever the brand your's is) that simply turns on when the **first** cell hits 3.45V or so (automatically, low cost, simple). No go. I was sure I could find one. I modified one of my heltecs to a 3.4V threshold (from the 2.7V threshold) by changing out the voltage detector to see if I could create one. Now it turns on when all cells are above 3.4V - which does not work properly since a low cell will prevent activation. It needs slightly more than a simple parts change.
It requires a circuit re-design so it turns on when the fist cell crosses the threshold. Not difficult, just needs a re-design. Maybe you can convince Muller to produce such a modified device - it looks like they managed to add a connector? That way all you would need to do is connect the new balancers to your other banks instead of replacing the whole BMS.
I think the problem is that almost all lower cost balancers available are re-tasked from other chemistries - without re-design. A simple circuit change on Heltec would provide a universal LIFEPO4 balancer that would allow everyone with a weak balancer (like the Daly's you demoed) to solve the LIFEPO4 balance problem once and for all without throwing out the BMS with the weak balancer.
yea that would be neat. Also the connector is literally soldered and glued onto the original unmodified PCB from Heltec. You could do the same thing to any existing balancers with a run switch.
I have actually such a balancer incoming which you mentioned in your second paragraph. We will test it soon on the channel.
I'm sure Heltec would be able to change these circuits accordingly to make the perfect balancer for us. But just for us... there might be other cases where this is not desired, and the balancer should just work as it is right now (using Li-ion cells for example).
I'm sure the one I will receive soon will just work even all the cells need to be over 3.4V to start it. It just requires one first top balance of the cells to get started.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia That would be useful, one set that starts when *one* cell gets to 3.4v and a different type that starts when one cell gets to 3.8v for Li-ion.
A 16s version would be fantastic. Andy, make it happen! You can do it!. lol.
JBD looks like a beast. I love the build quality! 16s please!
We are the JBD manufactueres.
Andy, We have sold over 1100 of the little 4s balancers, no returns over 1 year (except in situations where they were wired incorrectly). In regards to your concern about them always balance, the balancers stop working after 2.9v there is no more balancing function. On grade A/EV grade cells this is a non issue, as the balancer never even turn on because the voltage delta in these devices is 0.1v before they are triggered on. We use them to assist in top balancing the pack when it is being fully charged.
Muller has created a beast BMS, we will need to contact them and see about making a plate that can fit our v4 Kit!
Thanks, the balancer cause imbalance when going into the flat area of the curve with LiFePO4 cells. I have a few videos here on the channel showing that. It should not be turn on below 3.4V therefor.
2.9V is certainly far too low and only the low voltage disconnect for the balancer but the 'damage' is then already done.
Yeah, you will need a new plate for your batteries for that BMS. It's huge but 250A💪
Just successfully tested all this running at the same time off my 626Ah 2P4S battery and had 255 Amps running through the BMS. Only for a few minutes as I didn't want to push it so early on:
110 litre compressor fridge (about 5 Amps)
water pump (a few Amps?)
1550 watt air fryer (actually used more like 1700 watts)
750 watt microwave (uses 1200 watts)
Both those through Fchao 3000W inverter.
The king is dead, long live the king! I use the active balancer since more than a year in a similar way together wit a JK BMS: my CerboGX switches the relay once the SOC is 99% and this connects the un-soldered on pads on the active balancer. So every time my battery hits the fully charging it is perfectly balanced! Of course, the copper bars etc are impressive, but throwing away what works is not affordable for everybody! But as usual, great video, great presentation of details, go on with your excellent channel!
Yep, the GX devices and also larger MPPTs from Victron have a relay which can be used for that purpose. That is a great solution.
There is no need for upgrading any BMS with the JBD. I was just showing what they have developed.
waiting now for the 16s model with CAN and then an all in one unit with everything on board
JBD already launched models with at least bluetooth onboard... ...works fine ;-)
I still like the jkbms. If we have properly done the top balance initially,then no need of balancing of more than one cell at a time and also more balancing current is not needed.
This has been my experience with my small system as well. My cells appear a bit out of balance but after about an hour after charging everything settles down and they are usually less than 10 mA difference. System only a year old at this point.
@@jws3925 10ma?
@@netrocker9990I would guess he meant 10 mv
@@evil17 yup
That is correct, the JK with its 2A balancer is still sufficient as I can see it doing a great job every single day in my battery shelf.
This video is more to show what can be done in terms of external balancer and how to control them.
Andy, you're jumping the gun to say this JBD is the new king. It's more like a Prince at this time. They need to do a few this to become king. First, they need to make a unit that is 8s-16s capable. Second, their price rage needs to be in line with JK. Don't get me wrong. I'd be interested in an 8s unit myself. It is a well set up unit and the developer was definitely thinking things through. 🤔mind you the price would probably be around $300+ Canadian considering the JK 200amp unit is about $200 on aliexpress. Still a beefy unit though with properly done features. Good on them for doing so!👍👏
Hence i have this little * in the thumbnail, saying it's for the 4s version only 😉
It's a good start, so hopefully we will see more of such developments from JBD and others in the future.
This looks really cool. I'd like to see them offer a 14s version (for lithium ion, etc).
Thanks Andy for this review. Really great BMS. What I would consider great bms is with heating option and actual heating pads. So far we have JK and Daly that officialy offer heating function, buy without heating element itself. So customer needs to buy something and solder heating element elswhere.
I know that heating option is not needed for you, but wher I live we have already -10 celsius and winter has not even started.
So I would be really glad if you would test heating for this JBD when it will have 250A 16s with heater. Till then I will try to add heating element to JK and Daly. This is a must have feature for lot of people all arround the world I think.
Thanks Andy.
Have a goof day.
Thank you, I'll see what I can dig out and get done in this perspective. I have the SunFunKits case with heating pads but only tried it once to heat the cells for testing.
Tu es un super testeur. Merci beaucoup, j'attends le même model en 8S avec prise RJ pour interconnecter plusieurs BMS et une prise CAN pour utiliser sur Victron GX !!! Let's go Muller energy, vos prix sont en plus bien positionnés !!!
For DIY gear, it would be nice to see some more output control interfaces on BMS’s & controllers so you could have maybe 4-6 relay activating/switching outputs for various loads such as generator startup, battery heating, external active balancer, hot water switching at 95%+ SOC, pool pump, aircon, etc, that can all be set within an app to activate when parameters are reached to switch more solar dumping type loads in succession as batteries are near full & take full advantage of any potential excesses of energy you may be able to on a good day.
Yes, that would be great. It could be just a relay module connect to the RS485 port for example and a few additional options in the software to program them.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia 112522/1853 PST 🇺🇸 The same functions are inbuilt in Victron CERBO-GX system. All the above is possible to embed in JBD Müller also (and more) but the question is why not try Victron CERBO-GX,
when every thing one desires is already at your service?
Cost= convenience, viewing PV systems universally.
Congratulations to Müller Australia 🇦🇺 for incorporating AB and Touch Screen to JBD Müller. Danke Scheon, Andy and Müller 🇦🇺. 73s...
tons of old laptops out there
i have 50 to 100 i5 4 and 8 gig ram ones just setting getting dusty
Good to see you back with the better BMS Andy. I use the JBD in my professional installations. Despite the new addition of an active balancer, I will not be using this model as top balancing is not necessary after it has been done the first time a battery pack is created(with quality cells). I have yet to see in any of my installations a passive balancer that didn't keep the cells perfectly balanced between 1 to 2 millivolts even though I set the balance threshold to 10 millivolts. It's not worth spending the extra money for my business, but I can see the appeal for the DIY crowd who might not have the same quality of cells.
Curious what size cells you are using ? 300 ah cells need more balancing power than 100 ah of course .
@@onthelake9554 a very good question. The majority of my installations are with 300AH+ cells for the ship's house system. I only use 100AH on ships 30 to 80 feet long, that I have designed a separate marine electronics(radios, gps, ais, radar, sounder) battery system for. In larger ships, I use 300AH for the separate electronics system too. Active balancing is only needed when a battery pack is first made for 300AH+(quality cells).
Yes, if you use high quality cells, the balancing argument goes away quickly. Most people in the DIY scene don't use these cells but 'A-Grade' cells as we know them. They need a bit of balancing here and there...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Lots of quality cells out there that aren't "automotive grade". Those are for making high voltage battery banks, 400 to 800 VDC. My comments are about low voltage storage grade batteries. I realize that unfortunately many of the people that are not professionals, end up getting stuck with not-so-great-cells because a distributer is going to keep their long term business partners happy and send a 1 time buyer any lesser cells that they have. This looks like a great BMS for dealing with those lesser quality cells that don't like to stay balanced.
@@boatelectricaldiy Good comments, so generally what BMS do you use on A grade cells?
Hi Andy, great review, can't wait for the 16s varient.
One of my packs has a total cell capacity variation of 8ah ( 105 ah average) I've soldered 2 of the heltect active balancers together (to avoid a messy cabling situation)
I'd recommend stacking the active balancers together on this 4s system for fast effective results.
I've got 2x 4s running with JK 2A balancing bms. It has work the first time the batterys top off. After that it doesn't need a lot of balancing the next top off if any. So 2x a balancer is a bit overkill and waist of resources for me.
@@ToThePointGarfield yes. Correct
The 2A balancer is great so you can reduce the absorption time and get the battery to a lower voltage quickly. The JK also comes with 1A active balancer for whatever reason...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hello,sir, happy Easter festival. I have JK bms and price is unbeatable. I send from China and u can receive in one week.
E started following your channel. A word of warning to others. I have used the active capacitor balancers for several years now and have had capacitor failures. I had 10A rated unit.
Andy, cool video.
Looks like we are almost there.
This balancer is similar to what I tried. The problem is, as you point out, that it only turns on when all cells are high.
I am looking for a balancer that works for a reasonably worst case. i.e. if you have a system where one or more of your cells is consistently low.
For a test I top balance the battery, then remove 2AH off one cell and see if the balancer can fix the problem....
And, unfortunately, the low cell will prevent the balancer from turning on. So not quite yet.
Note 1: A normal Heltec can easily fix that that imbalance (couple of hours @ 13.8V, but always on, so no go for me).
Note 2: I actually found a balancer, that could do the trick, but it is passive and bit tricky to use and generates heat so people hate it and it makes it not useable for my application.
And, apparently no one wants to sell it - difficult to search for (spec below). Good luck. You will find everything except that balancer.
To use: attach balancer to battery (in addition to BMS) and apply 3.45V*4 = 13.8V charger (
JkBMS, less cabling less space less fuzz, still the best to me 😊
It absolutely is, the JBD is just another option hew have now...
and third price..
As your comment seems a bit single-sided to me:
Yes I may have also gone for a JK BMS. But I need it for a 12V (4S LiFePO4) system with a 2300W inverter (efficiency ~90%).
Now do the calculation. Only the inverter can now draw up to 213A from the battery and I have even more consumers.
(it is for a caravan).
For sure: 24V is the better choice for large inverters but in my case that would have meant to double the battery cells (8S), double the weight, double the mounting space and including a 24V/12V DC-DC converter or alternatively changing all existing 12V devices (some you might even not get here with 12V - like the tiny water pumps).
So it is not „this BMS is better than that“. It simply depends on your application
And for 4S at hight currents I haven‘t seen any better so far.
(This could also be understood as a challenge for JK to develop a 4S 300A BMS 😁)
You are so luky Andy to have the posibility to do all you are doing.
I am from Romania and (for now) I can only dream of doing what you are doing now.
I have an 40Ah Epever charge controller, a few cheap solar panels, an cheap 24V chinese inverter and only an 24V baterry sistem that is made out of lead acid baterryes...
I can only dream to have the posibility to buy lifepo4 baterryes for my cheap off grid sistem.
Well done Andy!
Thank you for all you are doing!
Thanks a lot Bogdan. I appreciate your comment and I am indeed lucky to have all these possibilities and can test so many devices. I'm also very lucky to share all this with a great audience and people like you!
A great system and once again superbly staged, greetings from Germany.
Thank you very much!
A BMS for my girlfriend for Christmas?? Not a bad suggestion Andy. Not bad at all...
-Except I already got her a nice Hydraulic Crimper! -She will be so thrilled, I can't wait to see her face when so opens up such wonderful present.
Hahaha, she will love the crimper. Makes such a great present 😄
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I especially got it in yellow - such a wonderful contrast to the red bow around... NOW she will know how much I love her. I'm sure my mother in-law gets excited too! -Thanks Andy for guiding me to better my relationships. This Channel just doesn't stop giving! 😁
I'd be intereste in a 16s version. Good video Andy
Hi. You can add active balancers (1 or more) to all brands of BMS s. I stick to JK 👍
Not like this. We have seen what happens when you leave them connected...
Re the LCD screen with this unit, some months back, I had conversations with Ruben Muller about my frustrations that his 4S Daly BMS needed a bloody phone app just to see the SOC, and about how dodgy the Daly software and interfaces were. I wanted to just glance at my boat dashboard to see A, V, and SOC. That's why the cable is so long -- to reach to a skipper's helm or into the front cab or lounge room of an RV van for a quick check. Having the fully programmable BT App plus the LCD for instant, always-on monitoring is an excellent function. Well done Muller.
My experience has also clearly verified that simply connecting an active balancer, and leaving it constantly "on", only makes the cell imbalance worse when you are working with other than brand new, A grade cells. It becomes glaringly apparent as the cells approach the top of the charge curve. The Heltec active balancers are very good at what they do, but they must be manually switched on to be most effective, and only near the top of the charge curve. Then they must be manually turned off. The Muller energy BMS auto on/off parameter for the active balancer is a big improvement and a welcome function for DIY battery management.
My jkbms balancer is always on (well... At 3.25V) and my cells are perfectly balanced... And.. I've never top balanced this pack.
Nice one Andy. As you said too bad they have it only for 4S config. But i'm a bit sceptical for 16S version.. if costs is too much it is no sense version. For that we have to wait and compare both BMS. So far it looks ok for both.
The JBD seems a lot beefier then the JK, so I would actually prefer the JBD in this case. I don't trust the JK to come close to 200A.
Finally the option is available! To bad not a 16s...... yet!!
Yea, working on it. A 16S version would be great. Lots of interest here...
Perfect Andy.. 8 and 16 cells options beautiful
Yep, hopefully coming soon...
Not a happy camper Andy, not a happy camper. I have 16 batteries 304 amp hour. You told me JK was the way to go. Now you're telling me something else? What's really going on dude.
Oh heck, technology continues to progress. Not your fault dude!
Keep the JK, definitely! The JBD is just an alternative and only for 12V batteries so far...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia 👍
I just noticed in Australia they're called "Crocodile clamps" whereas in the U.S. we call them "Alligator clips". Interesting. Also, great presentation on this BMS. It's much appreciated.
I learned a lot from you, dear Andy. Many thanks fo that. One point was, that JBDs have this major downside not showing (and measuring?) currents below 300mA. That's still the case with the newest model i bought, and i never got an answer from JBD on my question, if and when they would like to fix this issue. I can live with it since i have a smart shunt, and the JDB had an acceptable price. And i have an active balancer in my 12V Winston build in my RV that i can switch off, when not needed. Normally the 150mA passive balancing in the BMS is sufficient for a max deviation of under 10 mV. The 200A JBD (express shipped from china with paid tax) plus the balancer and two switches (one for the BMS) have cost me around 150€. I can't see an advantage of this Müller-customized JBD, that could be worth the double price. People just have to learn, that it doesn't make sense to power a 3000W (or more) inverter with 12V batteries ;-). But obviously is learning harder than paying in our strange world 😞.
A 16-22S version with CAN would be a win I think. Why 22S ? - LTO if one wants a 48vnom LTO bank. 17S for LiFePo4 would be nice as well - as one commenter here stated - most inverters can accept the higher battery voltage of the extra cell (ie, 17S instead of 16S) and this allows a little more stored energy in the system and gives an extra cell that could be used to make a 16S system if one cell goes bad and needs to be removed from a 17S system - before you poo-poo this idea think about it - to have 17 cells in series to make a 48vnom battery means ALL cells are the same age and have the same (more or less) wear - if you have a 16S system and need to replace one cell, a replacement cell introduced to the battery will have very different characteristics to the other 15 cells in that 16S battery. It would be nice to have one spare cell in the system (ie, a17S battery) that is actually being used at the same time as the other 16 cells......so when you have to remove one faulty cell the other cells are all the same age etc in the now 16S battery. Makes sense if you think about it - I wonder why this is not more prevalent in DIY Solar ?
A 8s-16s version would be very nice.
You got me on the cable length bit... hilarious! Good review, seems like a great BMS.
It's so looooooong😁
Thanks a lot for your sharing, Andy! We are the new brand of JBD for overseas market. Thanks a lot for your approval !
There is quite big price difference... $120 for 4S JK BMS, $350 for JBD, that's a lot
You know tha the Muller Jbd is in Aud, right? 😄
@@silviuflorescu6838 oh, forgot about that, thanks for pointing it out. So, it's only ~ 235 USD, that's better. Anyway, I'm curious about price of 16S version, that does not exist yet :)
@@MiH1IT , considering that a 6-22S of 250A is about usd $ 110 in the Jbd store , the final Muller version should be almost the same price as their 4S Au version.
I think I would air condition the Off-Grid Garage with an energy efficient 12Kw Mini Split A/C... then I would leave the bay doors open to get rid of all yourextra power....since you have Too Much Power and I'm Canadian and don't like Too Much Heat!!!
I have used a JBD Bms (with a contactor version) and faced problems. When any of the cells exceed the preset voltage level, the BMS would disconnect permanently. I had to disconnect the balance wires and reconnect them to have it work again.
I had similar issues with the QUCC BMS and contactor. I think they are the same BMS actually. Not a big fan of these relay BMSes to be honest. It was always a bit hit and mis if it turned off the battery and on again.
Very interesting video, Andy.
However, your beloved QUCC BMS has this external off switch as well.
I remember that you once wondered what this port was for...
Yes, it does. I know this now as well. Haven't used this for a while. Not a fan of this relay function which works inconsistently...
You change things faster than I change my socks lol when are you going give away some crap on your shelf
Excellent review I thank you. Great BMS too. But, it costs more than 100AH battery itself in my case. It better last.
Finally a BMS made how they should be made!!
Hi Andy, I've been following you on the web for some time, you're a nice person and I really like how you experiment with the different components.
I have been approaching the off-grid world for just over a year and I am about to install my system. browsing the various sites I discovered the existence of a particular BMS that I would like to submit to you because I consider it extremely versatile and with which you can personally build and customize the intervention logics of the protection thresholds. You may already know it, it's the ELERIX CPM BMS.
Greetings, you are great.
Robert
Hello Andy and hello @mullerenergy,
thanks for the impressive presentation.
We currently work exclusively with JK and 16S.
With 4S, many BMS work very well with or without a balancer.
If a 16S from Mullerenergy can achieve similarly good results with an included balancer and costs around €300-400,
we would order regularly (around 50 pieces or more a year).
We are installing solar systems in Portugal in the Algarve and have a constant need for balanced 16S LiFePo4 systems.
I just got into JK BMS and love them, replacing my Daly's !! one by one.
But you know, with the JK and a good set of closely matched cells, the passive balance works perfectly for my ESS solar set up, since gentle charge and discharge cycles.
As a matter of fact JK have BMSes with up to 10A balancing and 1000A charge/discharge current. However the 10A equalizer is just that, I think there is no charge protection. The 1k charge/discharge unit can balance with just 2A, the 5A balancer can handle 500A current.
Yes, but those type are working with relays wich consumes a lot of power.
I used to use the QUCC BMS with relay, The power consumption for that was very low, minimal I would say. The relay uses a bit more power when switching on but after that they use a so called economiser which reduces the current to a minimum to still hold the relay in the on position safely but with far less power.
@Off-Grid Garage , Andy, so would you recommend also the Jk bms 500A or 1000A ? Both use relays..
I would need one for a 18kw motor on my electric boat with 16S Eve 304, but I was scared about the relay's consumption.
Could be the type/brand of relay a factor for lower consumptions or are all those the same?
@@silviuflorescu6838 In this high amp class, yes, I would use a BMS with Relay instead of MOSFETs. That's exactly what these BMSes are designed for.
The relay consumption is very very low if they use the economiser. Even without, you have such a large battery, it would nto matter.
I have ran x2 jbd bms (video on my profile) for 2 years on a 12 volt system!!!! On my whole house ac squirrel cage daily for heating and cooling . 2200 square foot home. NM
new subscriber in QLD ,love your work mate, learnt a lot already after viewing your videos for last week ,
Hey Andy, good morning in the morning. Soccer is now going to start for Australia against France. Good luck
Andy, any update on the 16S upgrade?
Ein echt gelungenes video von Down Over Austria to DownUnder ;). Bleibt abzuwarten on JBD so etwas implementieren wird aber so wie es aussieht ist dies nur eine einzige Ausgabe für einen einzigen Anwendungsbereich KFZ und Camper
Great show Andy🙂 @Muller Energy 8-16s Version would be nice and I‘ll would by. 👍🏻
Im definitely interested in a 16S version
Great video, however, pay attention that when the charge mosfets close, the pulsed charge current of the inverter capacitors without a series resistance that limits the current is extremely large and could damage the BMS mosfets in the long run
The BMS is designed to handle that, and I believe it closes the FETs 'slower' than you would by just connecting the cables.
That’s real step forward as far as balancing goes - plus anything that stops huge sparks is brilliant. But that’s a whole lotta hardware for someone who lives on a boat where nothing like 250A is going to be used. Will this new stuff me available in a physically smaller version for maybe 120A peak? Not an issue for house installations with panels everywhere, but the new functionality has wider applications than this for better looking after batteries
This BMS is the first of its kind, so I'm sure there will be different versions in the future. It was specifically made for Muller to suit their 12V batteries, hence the 250A version.
informative video, now go to work for Retirement, thanks for putting all banks on one BMS you will love it.
Andy. Love your channel/reviews. With all the added functions to the BMSs (JK, Muller, Dally) like active balancing, bluetooth, and other functions, why do you think they have not added features like wifi and a shunt? It would be great to see an all in one unit for battery management to enhance the all in one inverters. I recently purchased a sun gold all in one inverter which only track battery usage in my remote cabin through wifi on the load side and does not track ideal usage, and my JK BMS is wifi only capable which does not have the accuracy of a shunt or wifi capability. This leaves me and a lot of other DIy’rs to only see half our system or we have to purchase a Victron GX system or something similar.
:-). We are pioneers, that's why 😂
The batteries didn't have laser welded studs, now they do. Bms where dumb, now smart(er) and start communicating.. strangely most Chinese think we(rest of the world) doesn't like wifi.
As soon as anyone invent BT to wifi (with the software that makes your BT app think it does connect to the BT device)...
They will include this!
Just wait an other year and you are able to buy at our beloved china tech prices.
Or don't wait and buy $$$ victron..
It honestly would be a nice simple project to build something around an MCU that switches on an external balancer when the internal balancer turns on. It's on my list already for some time, but there is so much to tinker around with and so little time...
Just my thoughts 👍
Thank you very much Andy for always the best and easy to understanding videos
Best regards from Philippines 🇵🇭
☕☕
Thanks a lot.
What we really need, is the manual cable doing a charging off on an other wire.
Wee need more controll to stop the freeze.
We need more controll when the cell's are hot enough.
Cheers from freezing cold Norway 🇧🇻
😮 Oh Nooooooooo. You’ve just ruined my day Andy, and possibly cost me even more money. 😢
Now I have to decide if I need one of these for my caravan, or just “make do” with the JK.
(To be totally honest I think I’ll stick with the JK, does the job admirably, and 200A is enough, … though admittedly not by a huge margin. I’m also tight for space in the battery compartment.)
Anyway, as always, thanks, great stuff. 👍
Yeah, stick with the JK. It still a great BMS and works well. Just for your next upgrade... maybe go with the JBD.
Wait, what? Due to the $200 price difference...I must stay with the JK BMS. Its always nice to window shop yet in the end, I cannot invest so much in every BMS I purchase. As always, thanks for the video.
Keep the JK, for balance sake! I'm just giving people options and show what's on the market. Don't buy all the sh!t I'm showing here 😂
I only need 16s to be happy 🙂 and communicate with the victron Cerbo GX
But what if you have more than one battery? How would coms work then?
Looks very good, but still no cover to protect at least the hot side of the device! how hard is it to make a plastic cover to protect the terminals!!
Thanks very much for the suggestion, I'll include it on the "ideas list" for version 2.0!
Yes, I agree, regardless of price it could look a lot more professional, clean, safe and finished with a nice plastic cover of sorts.
New to DIY LiFePO4. Setting this up with 8 x 304Ah cells in a 2P4S configuration (which I hope is OK) and I'll have a Fchao 3000W inverter to (possibly) run up to 2400 watts of stuff (240 volt).
One thing I don't like are the small mounting holes right on the corner of the PCB.Something a little more robust like on the JK would be nice.
andy need studio lights setup to tackle reflection
16S Mueller Energy BMS would be a big seller I suspect.
Super Video Andy, wie du schon selber sagst wenn es eine 16s Version geben würde, wäre ich auch nicht abgeneigt es zu kaufen.
We keep working on this...
Very interesting video and interesting BMS. The downside is, that it's limited to 4S and the main downside is, that it's only a local modification of BMS. If it would grow to 8S and 16S capabilities and be globally available = then it would be an awesome BMS and other BMS manufacturers would hopefully also respond in the market with similar improved BMSs.
But similar functionality could be achieved with any BMS with passive balancing together with a Neey 4th generation active balancer, or am I wrong?
They send worldwide either from AU or China directly.
It's especially made for their batteries but I found the function great and wanted to share this.
Yes, the NEEY would achieve the same but you would need to program tow device individually.
Heya, oh yes a 16s JBD BMS would be great I would order 3 of them
Cool indeed! A very cool mod to that BMS. Wait, are those harddrive servo magnets screwed to the work bench?
Yes, the magnets are holding my tools.
Genious.
The 8S version is mine.
Nice review. Are you sure you just don't like the name better, heir Muller? LOL Thanks for sharing
As an JK BMS fanboy ! You can just go sit on it . 🤣😅😂 . Love your show !
JBD BMS from Muller Energy $349 before 5% discount.
JK BMS....Alibaba $90.
Worth the feature differences?
The $90 JK is only a 60A BMS.
which store??
It's AUD
8:17 No. It's definitely much longer than that.
Andy great vid as always and gotta say it, you do an outstanding job.
{one tiny teny thing, Say: PAR - AM- ETER not para-meter} LOL
Aaaaahh, all to complicated. You never know if it is BE or AE or Aussie English 😉
18s - LiFePo4
3.55V - max charge voltage per cell
64V - matches Victron
Saying the JK has a smaller radiator it’s irelevant as it has enough mosfets that they don’t produce enough heat, also JK can deliver the stated power, etc this literally was the first time where i feel like the comments are not based on actual facts. (The only downside on JK is that it only balances one cell at time).
The JK gets hot when going over 150A. We have tested that her eon the channel. So I would not trust this with actual 200A but 150A should be OK. The JBD looks far better from that perspective.
I want a 16s version
For my electrical vehicle with heating pads.
Its freezing here
With can function of possible?!
56 volts
Hmm nice! But I still think I prefer the JK BMS, it is maller, has built in 2A active balancing AND it´s cost is only 25% of the price of the Müller JBD BMS... So I can get 4 JK BMS for 1 Müller JBD BMS.
Hi Andy, big fan of your channel from the Philippines, can you sell me your used JK BMS? Im starting a little DIY offgrid setup and you are my inspiration, you are fun to watch, educational and I can easily relate to your video. you always makes my day.
The link to Muller Energy no longer present on the Off-Grid website. The new BMS King no longer King? Is the problem with the temperature connect function the reason? Please Andy give us some explanation.
Maybe seplos can add an external active balancer control port like this BMS
That would be amazing. I'm working on it...😉
Grazie per il video tengo un bms della Daly ........... adesso so cosa prendere
The status is "NOMAL" 🤣
No Malfunction ? 🤨
I would purchase 3 of 16s versions when available and most likely more on an ongoing basis
Thanks Andy
Thanks, Wayne!
That is Great and Thank You.
All these years of watching your videos, could you show how to connect that BMS properly to a 12 volt system using 8 cells, I have the cells in a parallel style.
Thanks Rick, I can sure do that, no problem.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thank You Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo, Very Much.👍
Just downloaded the xiaoxiang BMS App, with the small elephant symbol, under the download name lghyes as per Muller Energy instructions on my Android.
I have no access to the Parameters.
How do we gain access?
Great video Andy, I really enjoyed todays upload. That Muller BMS really is a great looking BMS, and it has the options and performance to match! I love looking at the beautiful copper bus bars. It would make me personally very happy to have that BMS on my high output 12v batteries, if I had any. As far as having a BMS made for you with your branding and your chosen options, you would usually have to order at least 1,000 to 5,000 of them. What would you say to making and selling the Off Grid Garage BMS? I think you would sell out very quickly if you decided to have this BMS made.
Thanks for your feedback. I would not like to deal with selling products, due to support and warranty. I'm more than happy to let others do that for what its worth it.
Recently purchased but cant find the app for android that allows me to adjust the parameters :(
@off-grid garage,
The link for this product is now dead. I have looked all over for this device.
Can this replace the bms in the licitti 2nd generation 2000w battery box? The box has a 4s 200a bms inside now.
I wanted the convenience of the extra applied accessories that come with this package you show at the end of the video.
Can not wait for Sol-Ark 15 to arrive 😉
I'm onboard for two 16s
Ummmmm, the prices I'm seeing are 3.5x the JKBMS and consider the JK is 200 Amp but up to 8S, which means with a 24V battery, can handle a lot more POWER when voltage is considered. I could use a 250A BMS though... but there's entire 12V LFP batteries with BMS inside for what this costs.