That's kind of implied. Give the place back, and there won't be a penalty. Don't, and get slapped with whatever penalty the stewards feel covers the position you gained
@@davegoodwin9504 The Director wants the teams to have integrity. He is giving the chance to do the correct things. The blame here lies with Norris engineer for me. He gave him incorrect information.
@@lukas_jay243 yeah. Brundell even said that, he gets 5 or 10sec penalty. "Mclaren may have to tell piastri to slow down" but what the Mcl did? opposite. Seems like MCL only taking one scenario into consideration which it shows few times in the past races. I think , this what's hurting Norris championship the most. Stella is the ex ferrari engineer, no wonder they all work like a good old Ferrari team 😂
If the rule is unclear or seems to be questionable thru out the race, why give up the position? If they don’t penalize it you’ve got 3rd. If they follow logic from earlier events at same corner Max gets the penalty (even if not apples to apples). The only reason Lando should have given back was that they weren’t going to penalize Max based on first turn of race doing the exact same thing. Dive-bombing the inside pushing Lando out and making no effort at making the turn in the track limits. If not for first turn first lap, they’d have had to penalize Max to match the others they assesed.
@@halofreak1990 The problem is they don't always know if a penalty is going to be given. Sometimes it's obvious, at other times nobody's sure who's at fault. Which can and does force the teams to guess what the stewards are going to do, and in turn guess which strategy to go with.
I started watching F1 back in 2020. As a new fan. It did not take me long to realize there is some fuckery on how penalties are dished out. Have seen so many races where one driver gets hit with one but then a few laps later another doesn't for an even more egregious or obvious illegal move.
So if you dive bomb to overtake, you get penalised, if you dive bomb to defend you get rewarded. Two different approaches for the same move. Well done FIA and stewards
Casual fans will look at this and find a way to disagree😂 I don’t like lando and think he’s been a pussy this year. However that move by max was wild. Almost as bad as Brazil 2021
@@mikieedwards28 just looking at the fact that its far easier to overtake than to defend. I can totally agree with this penalty. if lando was a better driver he would have found a way past on track. Also a beautifull defence by max.
@@mikieedwards28 I'm a fan of Max's and I agree with you. Anyone can get to the apex first if they choose not to turn and run off. However, and this has been bothering me: did Lando not have a black and white flag already on him by this point? I assume that if Max had also had a black and white flag on him, they would have both gotten 5 sec penalties, but then that would mean that Lando passing Max or Lando giving the position back would have made no difference If Lando had a black and white flag by this point, and Max was not found to have run Lando off the track (also a valid discussion to have), he was gonna pick up a 5 sec penalty. Or is it the argument that they both went off track in the heat of racing, no penalties should have applied? which isn't an unreasonable position either. If one of them had a b&w flag and the other one didn't needs to also be addressed when having the opinion that no penalty should have applied, or maybe it should be Max's penalty for running Lando off track, i don't know
Max has become an expert at exploiting the FIA's poorly devised overtake rule. Even though Lando was ahead of Max entering the corner, Max has learned that simply not braking enough to make the corner is all he needs to do to hit the apex first and then push a car off the track. So of course Max gets to the apex ahead of Lando, because he has no intention of completing the corner on the track. He's done it over and over against Lewis (see Brazilian GP from 2021) and will just keep doing it. With Lando ahead of Max entering the corner, he's clearly visible to Max, and Max should be required to give Lando a car's width on the exit. If Lando can't stay on the track on his own (not forced off), then he's got to give the position back. If he can, then they should both be exiting toward the next corner side-by-side... and that's what every fan would prefer to see, more wheel-to-wheel racing.
People keep saying that Max was ahead at the apex, but fail to look at how he got there. Lando was ahead going into the braking zone, but Max dive bombed him, resulting in both of them going off the track. Want to give Lando 5s for an illegal overtake? fine. Give 5s to Max for forcing another driver off the track.
Kvyat would have been monstrous. Go back and look at his torpedo comps they look just like Verstappen from this and previous season making moves on Norris. Poor guy.
Dumbest rules ever, if *both* cars go totally outside track limits then it should be cancelled out. F1 needs to get on top of this constant track limit shambles.
Nope. Because every car is allowed to go over track limits. You have 4 strikes to go for it. But gaining advantage and overtaking is something else. Anyone can go off the track there even by themselves. That'snot "racing" scenario. It can just happen.
The only reason Verstappen was "ahead at the apex" was because he dived up the inside with no intention of making the corner. Lando was ahead entering the braking zone, that's what should matter. Otherwise you can just punt your rival off if you throw it up the inside each time. FIA need some actual racers in its head office 💀
Verstappen made the corner better than Lando, if you look at Lando's onboard you can see he is full steering lock and he still goes wide, even if you take the redbull out of the picture, Lando is still going wide, there is a reason why Max is 30cm away from the track limits and why Lando is 3 metres away from track limits
@@KeaganRules "Verstappen made the corner better than Lando" YEAH he made it so well he pushed lando off the track ", even if you take the redbull out of the picture, Lando is still going wide" LMAO what? no he does not, if the redbull isnt there he does not have to take evasive manouvers twice to make sure he doesnt hit verstappen
@@KeaganRulesneither car made the corner at all. Verstappen had nothing stopping him other than his own inability to turn in because he had out braked himself. Landonhad to avoid a car which was not under control on his inside.
Max almost made the corner, it was inches. Norris should have braked and made the corner behind Max. He could then argue that Max went off track to gain an advantage and Max would get 5s. Or he should have tried again when he was more ahead. This would have made Max's late braking become more of a desperate lunge. Either way, hard racing, not Kindergarten.
@@denithy Of course, but then the foul would be clear. Also I was referring to the practice of going so deep into the corner whilst defending the inside that you run off the track as well.
Stella had a terrible take saying the decision should come after the race. We have pushed for years for quicker responses it was good they decided in the race
@@ToneHelix97 They didn't have doubts. We know this because they gave their ruling very quickly. McLaren not liking the answer doesn't mean they had doubts. According to the rules, the call is correct. Max was ahead at the apex, so it's his corner and Norris isn't entitled to space. Norris overtook around the outside anyway, so it's a penalty. And it's not like they ignored that Max also went off, since the penalty should have been 10 seconds but was only 5 because Max was also off.
@@andrewb378 correct they made the right decision based on the rules so I’m happy it was made in the race. I’m not a fan of the rules wish the line was treated as a “wall” you can push someone into. That being said the decision based on the rules was correct brilliant defensive by max
@@ThemanngamingIf the telemetry suggests Norris was driving into that "wall," regardless, then Verstappen can't be forcing him into it, which was likely an element of the ruling. One of the elements of the whole "treat the line like it's a wall" mantra is that (like Freitas in the WEC says) "if you hit the wall, don't be surprised if it takes you out of the race." I imagine if we followed that sort of rule here and Lando still went off, then The Race would have a video conplaining about it...
@@bfapple he literally lost a podium in 2017 because he did what norris did. Blame the stewards for being incompetent not take away from verstappen's drive because you dislike him
@@issammelzi728 To be fair it's not even a Vertsappen only thing, they illustrated it well in the video this interpretation of the rules basically gives all the advantage to the lead driver, I'm fairly confident we all want to see more overtakes so something has to change to discourage the purposeful running wide at such corners in order to force your opponent off.
As a very much a casual F1 viewer, it is always so strange to me to see these incidents happen, where the driver on the inside just pushes another car outside of the track and doesn't get penalised for it.
There are some rules in the spirit of good racing and allowing overtaking on the outside that force the inside car to keep space for the outside car. Otherwise they would just drive the corner normally and the outside car has nowhere to go and you can't overtake. In turn always needing to leave space is also not a good option as this always forces the inside driver into a suboptimal cornering line and can be abused by the outside driver. So sometimes they need to leave space and sometimes they dont. It depends if they outside care is alongside at the apex. If so they haave the right to the corner and are not allowed to be pushed off. If they are not (like the stewards judged in the max/lando incident). The outside car does not have a right to the corner and the inside car can drive whatever line he wants. This last bit is the most important in all incidents. Because if you are not alongside at the apex, the whole "pushing someone off" or "he also didn't make the corner" part is mute.
@@KeaganRulesGo back to Nascar or wherever you come from. Your trolling is pathetic, such driving standards are not allowed in any respectable racing series
I think that what should have happened is both getting 5 sec penalties. Norris passed off track, Verstappen forced a driver off track. That is so clear.
@@kingotaku3389well oscar wouldve slowed down enough to stay behind lando according to mclaren. he was already slowing down to stay behind him incase of penalty
The apex rule is such nonsense, it just allows drivers to divebomb up the inside with no intention of making the corner yet they're apparently still entitled to the place.
3:45 regarding gravel traps, I completely disagree with your conclusion that it would turn out the same - the mentality knowing that if you brake late or drive wide ends your race, will prevent the drivers from going into a corner with no intention of actually making it.
Max would have still be fine since he had 2 wheels on the kerbs. It would be Lando that would have got beached. That's worse than a 5 sec penalty. I would rather not have gravel so it at least gives another opportunity to the driver who was wronged whoever the wronged driver you think is
@@jonaseriksson3782 Yep and the 5 sec penalty will be well worth Max's trouble. I think other drivers have to say f*** it and do what Lewis did in Silverstone 2021, yield or we crash.
That would work for most drivers but two issues. Max has shown he'd be very happy pushing other drivers into the gravel trap and even if he did go in it he's well ahead on points, Norris needs them more than him.
How Does Verstappen keep getting away with this garbage! Verstappen clearly took the corner too fast, to try to stop Norris from gaining an advantage and forced them both off the track! How Norris got a 5 second penalty is just ludicrous
The only reason the lead car has to run so wide and “push off the track” is that there is no actual end of the track for them to shut the door on. If there was no drivable surface past the white lines, the lead car just needs to take a slightly less aggressive line through the corner because they would achieve the same effect
It's been said, but Kvyat was taken from us too soon. He would have reached unfathomable heights under this FIA. 10 second for Norris for passing outside, reduced to 5s because pushed off by Max, Max gets 5 for pushing a car off. They even out, race goes on, this is what SHOULD have happened!
My question is, why wasn’t their more focus on lando moving under braking on max after he passed? People saying fia favoring max but lando literally getting away with dirty driving in both sprint and gp
Right? I do not understand how Max can violate "You must leave any car with "any significant's parts of their car beside" 1-car's width of space" aka the '1-Car Width Rule' also covered in the Driving Standards Guidelines amended in 2022 (largely because, go figure, Max's dive-bomb and completely straight-lining most of aT6 Abu Dhabi the year before to spear Hamilton off the track) and constantly drives competitors off the track if they are beside into a turn, but then Norris gets a +5 second penalty and Max gets no time penalty (or even a warning whatsoever). Either give both +5 seconds or no one gets a penalty and they race on. But to give only one car a penalty, the one that was INTENTIONALLY run off the track while Max RAN OFF THE TRACK track himself - which the FIA admitted to in their post race report and then go on to write some absolutely nutter senseless hoebabble that, "Max was allowed to leave the track to Defend" is beyond horseshit! You're allowed to leave the circuit to defend?! WTF?! Where does it stop? Can Max run all the way to the goddamn stands to defend too? Can he leave the track and take his arc all the way to Dallas to defend? Redbull has the FIA in their pocket at this point and there's simply no way anyone can deny it after this. No rational way. Period. Dead stop. Don't even try to argue it. This ruling and their insanely illogical explanation - one that violated their own Driving Standards Guidelines regulations - proved it.
Iv seen people drive bumper cars with more respect than some F1 overtake attempts. The rule regarding cars being in the lead at the corner apex seems to leave too much grey area for drivers to abuse, you get a lot of drivers pushing for that lead at the apex by sacrificing the corner exit which in turn drives the outside car off the road as the only outcome possible.
I don't agree with that. If Max outbrakes himself and goes deep, Lando can do the opposite brake and turn early and switch to the inside. Lack of imagination and skills I guess
@@yavoryakimov3324 Normally you brake later than your opponent, thats the idea. If you dont brake later, they just take the normal racing line. Have you never actually raced before? Lando cant suddenly slow the car more because Max brakes late... LOL
Wheel to wheel racing outside of the track is not the same as wheel to wheel racing. ‘But Max left the track too’. There is a strike system for that. Where Norris was already on his last strike by the way. 3/4. Get your facts right. Racing is about battling it out on the track. Not outside of it.
@@facts3221 Okay, the strike system is failing if by your own admission, it can be used to allow racing outside of track. It should strictly be for mistakes only.
@@F1ll1nTh3Blanks you are putting words in my mouth. Or purposely misinterpreting what I said to justify an illegal overtake. Going off track is punished after a certain amount of times as it might give you unwarranted lap time or create risk and dangerous situations. The strike system makes sense as racing is high speed, high intensity and this can happen without intent. Getting you a warning basically. Overtaking outside of track is a separate issue. You are purposely passing a competitor that has priority in the corner. You are trying to bring them together to create vagueness and justify an illegal overtake. So based on my analysis Max should just get one strike. Norris a penalty for overtaking outside of the track.
Rules are fine. Max just wasn't also given a penalty for gaining a lasting advantage by running off track. They both should have got 5 seconds. Sporting regs also cover erratic driving, the kind we've seen from Max since 2021, but the stewards are too chicken to enforce - or they're just Derek Warwick who likes Max and Jos
This is the bit that confused me. Verstappen went off the track and gained an advantage. If they don't penalise Norris there is no advantage, but they did penalise Norris, and so Max did gain an advantage, and thus he should also have had a penalty. Then it would have been Lando 3rd Oscar 4th Piastri 5th. That failure to penalise Max for it gave him a 9 point delta vs Lando.
@@VeryIntellijent Indeed. There were also driver guidelines published in 2022 because of what happened at Brazil 2021: "The car being overtaken must be capable of making the corner while remaining within the limits of the track”. For some reason everyone, including the FIA and stewards seem to have forgotten them.
Or they should have made a quick decision and tell Lando to give the position back. They waited too late to give him the 5 sec penalty. McLaren should of told him to give the position back just in case they decided to penalize Verstappen for pushing him off the track. Verstappen is a pretty moronic driver and I think Lando should have waited because he was clearly faster.
I miss one thing in the discussion and also sadly in this video. The (DRS) rules favor the car behind. If you then regulate the defending too restrictive, real battles will never happen again. You relegate the car in front to a sitting duck. Norris didn't get past Max completely and he did it (had to) on the outside... That's asking for trouble but it also means squeezing the car being overtaken means it is more likely to run wide... Max used the rules to his advantage, yes.. and left the track, yes, clearly. But would he have stayed on track if Norris had moved to the right more for the overtake? Could Norris then maybe switch back if Max outbraked himself? Squeezing the car on the inside while not being completely ahead creates this scenario... An amendment to the guideline should be that the defending car must stay on track with both from and rear tyre, or lose position, if an overtaking car gets ahead at any point before the apex.
Yep, Norris gained 7 tenths every time down the back stretch. The DRS is simply too powerful on higher- downforce tracks. The leading car is a sitting duck every time.
@@steve4880 except clearly he's not a "sitting duck every time" given that this was the only real chance that Norris ever had. Always the excuses for the guys who's afraid to race wheel to wheel like Verstappen. He's nothing without his 20 second advantage Neweymobile.
@@f1jones544Max defended for 6 laps against a car probably close to a second faster per lap... Tell me who has defended like that in recent years? That is wheel to wheel and he just waited for Norris and gave it his best shot. He could have pitted for soft and went for points but he didn't. Even a lot of journalists ranked his performance above that of Leclerc, Sainz and Norris...
The DRS is a compensation for how dirty air affects current cars, which very much favors the car ahead. These grey zone tactics effectivelly kill real battles, as they make it impossible to pass in a corner.
@@Kopzif long answer so read till the end... yet the 2022+ cars show there is more overtaking than before so maybe Drs could be reduced. Rules to regulate defending/attacking help to keep it clean but I feel this particular rule about being ahead at the apex needs tweaking. I would include "the attacking or defending car on the inside of a corner MUST stay on track while attacking and/or defending. The car on the outside must stay on track, unless going off track is to avoid contact. However going off track cannot lead to a net time gain or an overtake or it will be an automatic penalty to be judged on severity by the stewards"
He could also have just given the place back and overtaken Max in the next two laps, which was certainly possible based on how much he was outpacing the RB. Ah well, the pit wall told him he was ahead at the apex and he believed them.
I think a huge issue is this puts people off F1 who have a casual interest. As they will be very confused why the driver doing nothing wrong gets punished.
Max is just a bully...the simple solution is this: Monitor brake pressure on the way and into corner (trail braking is used in F1) in race pace for every driver. Thats the "average braking routine" of said driver, essentially an "average braking vs distance" graph. Since braking changes as fuel goes down and tires wear off it can be re-calculated every 5-6 laps, timeframe within which we assume that conditions remain unchanged. Under battle conditions you will be allowed to push the "average braking routine" by some defined margin e.g. 10%, which will translate to some other "braking vs distance" graph. If you exceed your "average braking routine + 10%" and the result is both cars going off the track, then the defending car either gives the position or gets a penalty, because we can safely assume that the intention is not to defend but to "force another driver off the track". Thats much more rational than the "first at the apex" rule, which will always be met if you just dive bomb (as Max does) into a corner while the car attacking is putting a move on you. Stewards has access to the telemetry data so it is easily measurable and algorithmically calculable....this stupidity needs to stop....lets not have another 21 cause Max's childish approach of "I'll win at all costs" its getting really annoying....
Divebomb overtake on the inside and staying on track? 5 second penalty. Divebomb defending and not staying on track? 5 second penalty for the attacking driver. Make it make sense
Hamilton fans realized this in 21 but you guys were so focused on getting a new champion that you threw the baby out with the bath water. We were able to see where this was headed glad you could catch up
So basically Max is entitled to do what he wants when defending, going off track gaining an advantage, forcing another driver off track, both things he did in this race, but everyone else has to adhere to the rules or else. Great job FIA stewards…
My issue with this whole scenario is that we are discouraging racing. My other issue is drivers not staying on the track the rumble curbs and run off is not the track. Those areas should be for oops last resort driver error buffer to save the car from walls and traps. We also need instant decisions to either give back or it stands. This scenario Max was in the wrong for running Lando off the track he should have left a car width. For him running wide he should have also received a 5 second penalty.
I think there’s a point that’s missed by everyone including the stewards. Lando enters the braking zone, ahead of Max. Tell me how max is the defender when technically he is behind? So with that logic, Max is now the attacker, on the inside and re overtakes at the apex, so by the rules he should get a penalty. I can’t see how anyone can logically claim that max was the defender when he was technically behind for a couple meters entering the corner. Id love someone to counter my point as i can’t see any it any other way.
For me it shouldn't matter who is ahead on the apex if one driver is clearly alongside on the apex like Lando was he should be given space. If Lando would just have his nose alongside Verstappen it would have been a different situation apart from the fact that if Max was as far ahead Lando would have never been able to find enough grip of the track to outtraction. The fact that Lando came out ahead despite the lower grip shows that Lando was clearly alongside and deserved the space from Max.
@@EinfachnurItax360 I agree, anytime someone is significantly alongside they should be given space - im just using the current rules and showing how easy it is to interpret them so differently. Rules are terrible
Because Lando isn't *fully* ahead by the braking zone, just mostly ahead. The move isn't "done" yet, so he isn't the leading driver. They're still in the same battle and when that battle started, Max was ahead.
@@JaytaliseSo under your suggestion, you would be allowed to steam in around the outside, cut the inside driver off despite that they've already committed to their braking point and can't bail out, and despite that being entirely the fault of the driver on the outside, the inside driver would get the penalty? There is a reason there is a heavier burden placed on the aggressive driver to make it a safe overtake... by virtue of being the one picking and choosing when and what they're doing, they usually end up with more responsibility for what ensues.
@@andrewb378he was actually over a car length ahead into the braking zone, watch the video on it again, max just broke so late (to the extent he didn’t make the corner) that he got ahead at the ‘apex’
When Verstappen did it in Austria it was fine for Max to keep his place whilst off track. But when Max is the one to lose out it’s suddenly an issue. The stewards and the FIA have some serious work to do.
Exactly. Max went right at the corner, and so hard he couldn't stay even partially on track. Max has always been petty. His antics and lack of self-control are well documented and go back to his first year at RB in 2017. And he'll keep doing it because FIA allows it.
Why was it not the case that because Max took his foot off the brake so he could get his nose ahead. It was Max that was overtaking, so it could have been, Norris didn’t gain an advantage during overtaking and Max pushed Norris off the track so should have got the penalty?
There needs to be a penalty for driving another driver off track. Lando wouldn't have been there had Max not braked so late and put him there. Not to mention how Max was ALSO off track. Not to mention how Max passed Sainz outside the track earlier in the race. Not to mention how Russell got a penalty for pushing a driver wide.... It takes NO TALENT to just cut someone off at the end of the corner every time you're battling for position. Max has no race craft. Max's only plan is "let off and give me the position, or I crash us both" If I were Lando, I wouldn't have lifted, drove right into him, and let him deal with the consequences like he did at Silverstone in 2021 with Lewis. Max has to learn eventually
There *is* a penalty for pushing someone off the track. It's 5 seconds. Norris overtook off the track, which is a 10 second penalty, not a 5 second one. That 10 second penalty was reduced by 5 seconds because Max went off with him. Russell was the attacker when he pushed Bottas off, which is why he got 5 seconds. He pushed someone off the track to make a move stick. Max was the defending driver. Whether you think there should be a difference or not, the rules treat these situations differently. It absolutely does take talent to do what Max does. You'd lock up every single time. Besides that, he's also covering off the undercut on the exit. Before you advocate for Lando to just torpedo Max, you need to take a breath and think about what Max is doing. He's not trying to win at COTA. He's trying to win the driver's championship. That's why he was fine with letting the Ferraris through early. He's not trying to beat the Ferrari's, he's trying to not get beat by Lando. He could come in 19th and be fine with it as long as Lando comes in 20th. So if Lando just turns into him at 19 and they both crash out, Max is fine with that. He doesn't lose to Lando, so his lead in the driver's championship stays the same. Lando using his car as a battering ram for some childish form of vigilante justice plays directly into Max's strategy.
@@andrewb378 And "Lando to torpedo Max..."? No. Think back to Silverstone 2021 moron. Max torpedoed himself because he can't race wheel to wheel with other drivers. MAX WOULD HAVE SENT LANDO INTO THE WALL HAD LANDO NOT WENT OFF TRACK. What part of that do you not see? "If I can't pass you, I'll just wreck you unless you get out of the way..." Yeah, lots of fucking talent in that
It seems pretty clear to me that the only reason Max was ahead at the apex is because he never had any intention of making the corner. It's easy to outbrake someone when you don't have to make the corner.
So Norris is punished yet Max was allowed to dive bomb and that's okay because he would be an inch ahead at the apex?? 🤔🤔 Norris was only off track because Max didn't leave him any space at all...
What if Lando just give back position right away? Will Max be the one penalized instead? How can Max's 5 sec penalty be cancelled out? It's not like there's only 2 driver racing on the circuit.
Loads of people saying that the rules/regs need to be looked at or that Verstappen was ok and Lando should get a penalty for overtaking whilst off the track. The FIA Formula 1 Driving Standards Guidelines were last published in 2022 and says the following wrt overtaking on the outside specifically about the car on the inside being overtaken - "The car being overtaken must be capable of making the corner while remaining within the limits of the track.” That is specifically IMO to stop what Verstappen is doing in braking way later when challenged to the extent he can't make the corner and at the same time pushing the other car off as well (or colliding with them if they dont yield). Note the use of the word MUST. Hence why is he (and others) not penalised. Yes Lando gets 5 sec penalty but so should Verstappen. Why do the FIA continue to cherry pick which bits of their guidelines they apply.
Throw these rules and guidelines in a trash can, make the cars smaller, and tracks wider on the exit of such corners like COTA T12, that will allow drivers to go around the outside without leaving the track and it's all sorted. If you can't widen the track put the damn gravel there. It looked ridiculous yesterday, and the stewards decision made it even worse
The size of the cars is irrelevant. We routinely had races in the early 00s with zero passes or even attempts when the cars were tiny. In fact, there are literal semi truck races with actual passing
I'm so tired of people hiding behind the rulebook when it literally contradicts itself. In one breathe it says about being first at the apex, in another it says about the need to give racing room to the other car. Why is the apex so much more important, especially when meeting the apex at the corner and going off track are essentially contradictions to driving standards. If you drive off track whilst 'making the apex', you did not make the apex with enough control to complete the corner. Dog shit rulebook defending by idiots who accept this touring car level of defending. Max doesn't push the limits of the rules, he steps over them but the stewards are weak. We saw this in 2021. We saw him crash into Lewis at Hungary and the stewards had the audacity to blame Lewis. We've now seen it again. Add to that the other inconsistencies. On Saturday Magnussen kept position off track on lap 1, no penalty. On Saturday Tsunoda was forced off by Hulk and Piastri, no penalty. But yesterday we saw a Ferrari keep position off track, several other cars block pass and force others off, to no penalties...in the same race drivers did get penalties for the exact same things. Don't get me started on the lenience on lap 1 incidents. The sport is a shambles when it comes to wheel to wheel racing. Max is often involved in these controversies because he's one of the few to take it too far every single time. He's not doing something right, the stewards are doing things wrong by ignoring it. Journalists need to do their fucking job and call the sport out instead of hiding behind the contradictions in the rulebook. Have we learned nothing in recent years about how shit stewards are at applying rules?
They ruined the best race of the year! Verstappen was too late on the brakes and forced him out, like what the actual frick was Norris supposed to do!? Crash!?!?!? F the FIA
@@kameransnyder9596 bold of you to be so confident and yet so wrong. Considering Max didn't get a penalty, and also didn't get a penalty for doing this exact move in Austria is verifiably, factually correct. How about you sit this one out kid
It seems like Verstappen could do that every lap which would mean that it would not be possible for Norris to overtake at all without getting a penalty.
I agree with McLaren. I would not have asked Lando to give it back. The tactic Max was using to block Lando isn’t racing it was blocking and at the point he took 4 off the line the battle should have been the battle.
key facts are... RB is sponsoring so many motorsport events that FIA has to suck them constantly. RB joining motorsport is the worst thing ever that happened to it (motorsport).
Stop it. The stewards are FOS and violated their own rules ... again. I do not understand how Max can violate "You must leave any car with "any significant's parts of their car beside" 1-car's width of space" aka the '1-Car Width Rule' also covered in the Driving Standards Guidelines amended in 2022 (largely because, go figure, Max's dive-bomb and completely straight-lining most of aT6 Abu Dhabi the year before to spear Hamilton off the track) and constantly drives competitors off the track if they are beside into a turn, but then Norris gets a +5 second penalty and Max gets no time penalty (or even a warning whatsoever). Either give both +5 seconds or no one gets a penalty and they race on. But to give only one car a penalty, the one that was INTENTIONALLY run off the track while Max RAN OFF THE TRACK track himself - which the FIA admitted to in their post race report and then go on to write some absolutely nutter senseless hoebabble that, "Max was allowed to leave the track to Defend" is beyond horseshit! You're allowed to leave the circuit to defend?! WTF?! Where does it stop? Can Max run all the way to the goddamn stands to defend too? Can he leave the track and take his arc all the way to Dallas to defend? Redbull has the FIA in their pocket at this point and there's simply no way anyone can deny it after this. No rational way. Period. Dead stop. Don't even try to argue it. This ruling and their insanely illogical explanation - one that violated their own Driving Standards Guidelines regulations - proved it.
It's so crazy how the FIA is so inconsistent with their ruling, the racing was cool and all, but man the way these rules are being ruled is so inconsistent. Gotta hate the rules, not the players, both were doing some insane dives.
I’m sorry but how the fuck are you allowed to defend your position by pushing the overtaking car of track by so far that even you can’t make the corner. This is the same as Brazil 2021, just less extreme
This is extremely easy to resolve. If you have your front tire along side (equal to or in front) of your competitors rear tyre; both care must allow for enough spare for both cars to remain on the track. That means at both the apex and the exit.
Turn 1 incidents are almost never penalized. There's just too many cars in too tight a space. If the stewards tried to dish out punishments for every lap 1 incident they'd still be working on them now.
I literally turned off the TV and got out of the room when Norris got the penalty. I don't want to get to the final track and Max is sitting comfortable at the top. I want the title to be decided until the end of the season.
I feel for Lando. The team were aware of the penalties in that race and could see it was marginal. However, Verstappen should not be intentionally pushing a car off the track. They should have both received a penalty.
Something you're missing is that straight after getting ahead Lando said he thought he was ahead at the apex and asked the team to let him know if that was wrong. Clearly he knew that was the crucial point. The team told him they thought he was ahead at the apex and they were wrong. They later reiterated that, even after they'd have had a chance to check the video feed, where they should have seen they were wrong. I don't blame Lando or the stewards but the fact is that McLaren messed up.
@@Alex-cw3rz And you think Max cares that you blame him? The fact is that the stewards made their judgement based on the same thing they always have - who was ahead at the apex. McLaren had their blinders on and didn't see that and they only have themselves to blame.
@@maxxuman9915 Stop it. The stewards are FOS and violated their own rules ... again. I do not understand how Max can violate "You must leave any car with "any significant's parts of their car beside" 1-car's width of space" aka the '1-Car Width Rule' also covered in the Driving Standards Guidelines amended in 2022 (largely because, go figure, Max's dive-bomb and completely straight-lining most of aT6 Abu Dhabi the year before to spear Hamilton off the track) and constantly drives competitors off the track if they are beside into a turn, but then Norris gets a +5 second penalty and Max gets no time penalty (or even a warning whatsoever). Either give both +5 seconds or no one gets a penalty and they race on. But to give only one car a penalty, the one that was INTENTIONALLY run off the track while Max RAN OFF THE TRACK track himself - which the FIA admitted to in their post race report and then go on to write some absolutely nutter senseless hoebabble that, "Max was allowed to leave the track to Defend" is beyond horseshit! You're allowed to leave the circuit to defend?! WTF?! Where does it stop? Can Max run all the way to the goddamn stands to defend too? Can he leave the track and take his arc all the way to Dallas to defend? Redbull has the FIA in their pocket at this point and there's simply no way anyone can deny it after this. No rational way. Period. Dead stop. Don't even try to argue it. This ruling and their insanely illogical explanation - one that violated their own Driving Standards Guidelines regulations - proved it.
Should be as simple as, If a driver leaves the track, they lose the advantage affording to them by the apex. Would give us such good racing and stop these dive bomb defences that ruin a good race.
Thing is, Max didn't leave the track. Otherwise, he'd have been flagged for "forcing another driver off the track", or with a track limits infraction. Neither happened, so the move was on
@@halofreak1990 the stewards literally acknowledged that max went off the track. If that wasn't the case, we'd be arguing that Lando's penalty wasn't enough cause his offense is a 10 sec penalty offense
IN NASCAR, all stewards make reulings in real time, usually within 30 seconds or so. If you go below the yellow lines "track limit" to pass, you simply give the spot back. If you are forced down there, even if you pass, no problem you keep the spot gained. Having 5 or 10 seconds penalty is silly. The rules in NASCAR are keen to keep the guys battling it out for a better fan experience. 5 and 10 second penaties messes that up.
why cant they just make the rules so that the defending car has to be ahead of the apex AND make the corner to be able to force the attacking car off track. literally, thats all you have to do to make it fair
That actually is the rule though. They're just two different ones. Making the apex first and not exceeding track limits are both mentioned. But these thick as shit stewards put priority in the apex as opposed to making the corner. Now, if you don't make the corner, I don't think you actually made the apex in regular fashion at all.
immediately after that move, I knew Lando was getting a penalty. Just push people wide preventing them from using full throttle outside of the track, while you maximize the racing line and even leave the track yourself. It's just going to cause yet another racing regulation change.
@nodekapunk turn 12 when sainz divebomved and pushed max off. With went off the track yet max was allowed to stay ahead of sainz. Literally identical situation to lando max at turn 12
@@andrewmelton2686 he wasn’t allowed anything. Sainz gave it back to him on his own because he passed off the track. lol no one forced him to, but he wanted to avoid the penalty
The rule should have to take the intentions of the cars taking the corner in to account. Max has NO intentions to complete the corner. He knows the flaw in the rules and dives ahead first to the apex, KNOWING he wont complete the corner.
Very unfair to McLaren. FIA is not consistent in handing out penalties and if I were McLaren I'd launch 3rd party investigations in how FIA and their employees behave in and off grid.
Let's have an overlap rule like we have in sailing. If the overtaking car has an overlap you have to give the overtaking car 'space'; you don't have to let it through, but you do have to give some space.
The reason MV was just ahead at the apex was because he lifted off the break pedal slightly. Lando was ahead before that. So all the defending driver needs to do is break later so they're ahead at the apex even if it means running off the road, a move we've see V do so many times especially in 2021.
Yeah. The Stewards said Lando was ahead at the apex, then all the commentary after the fact says Max was ahead...but only because he divebombed straight for the corner to drive Lando off. Max has serious anger issues. Geez, he's been doing this crap since his rookie year with RB in 2017 and they even created the short-lived "Verstappen Rule"...smh.
@@CL_HatThe restart didn't comply with the rules. It wasn't a startegy masterclass eitherway. Horner said that they only pulled Max in because Hamilton stayed out.
@@kaveeshakarunaratne8961 That was up to the race director, who prioritized a race finishing under green flag. It was seen as the more sporting option, since it wasnt that important letting lapped traffic by with only 1 lap left. And not letting a safety car triggered by a backmarker team decide WDC. And I never said it was a masterclass in strategy, that is just simply the way the news goes. *We had a motor race*
2 месяца назад+4
Amount of people commenting something they don't understand is fun to watch. Stop comparing this "incident" to Bottas-Russel, or Tsunoda-Albon. These two are non-comparable at all to Max-Lando.
And yet, you offer no argument as to why these instances are different. Fun to watch you call others out without offering any rebuttal of your own, kid.
He's a 3 time world champion. He's not an imbread moron. He was pushing his opponent off the track to gain the advantage. It's plain and simple. He's done it before he'll do it again. The FIA are a bunch of morons
Max being a fucking genius. Interpreting the FiA rules better than people who write them. And other drivers and many team bosses just can't wrap their heads around it. So they get mad at him for no reason.
Similar event: 2017 Italian GP Where Palmer "CUT THE CHICKEN" and get a 5 second time penalty. But didn't Alonso push him off the track? He didn't even leave the space! "ALL THE TIME YOU NEET TO LEAVE THE SPACE" 😂
This is only an issue at COTA mostly I guess, with those very very sharp turns, dive the inside and there is no way the car on the outside can somehow get ahead
I literally switched off my TV when I heard Lando is getting a penalty. What use is watching the race when they aren't allowed to race. I can spend my time better somewhere else.
Its funny how these are only "silly rules" when theres no wall. Its a same drivers just dont think that every track has a wall and stay in that mindset as much as possible. Gravel traps are also a decent option as well.
Pls can we go back to when the race director would tell the teams to give the place back rather than them guessing whether or not they’ll get a pen
That's kind of implied. Give the place back, and there won't be a penalty. Don't, and get slapped with whatever penalty the stewards feel covers the position you gained
@@davegoodwin9504 The Director wants the teams to have integrity. He is giving the chance to do the correct things. The blame here lies with Norris engineer for me. He gave him incorrect information.
@@lukas_jay243 yeah.
Brundell even said that, he gets 5 or 10sec penalty.
"Mclaren may have to tell piastri to slow down" but what the Mcl did? opposite.
Seems like MCL only taking one scenario into consideration which it shows few times in the past races.
I think , this what's hurting Norris championship the most.
Stella is the ex ferrari engineer, no wonder they all work like a good old Ferrari team 😂
If the rule is unclear or seems to be questionable thru out the race, why give up the position? If they don’t penalize it you’ve got 3rd. If they follow logic from earlier events at same corner Max gets the penalty (even if not apples to apples).
The only reason Lando should have given back was that they weren’t going to penalize Max based on first turn of race doing the exact same thing. Dive-bombing the inside pushing Lando out and making no effort at making the turn in the track limits. If not for first turn first lap, they’d have had to penalize Max to match the others they assesed.
@@halofreak1990
The problem is they don't always know if a penalty is going to be given.
Sometimes it's obvious, at other times nobody's sure who's at fault.
Which can and does force the teams to guess what the stewards are going to do, and in turn guess which strategy to go with.
For me, if the car being overtaken doesn’t even make the turn and pushes the other car out, then all bets are off.
well fortunately for us the rules are not based on you lad
@@mangalutv2928Exactly his opinion is too smart and logical for the FIA
norris shouldnt have been there in the first pladce and verstappen got a track limits. rules were applied perfectly
I started watching F1 back in 2020. As a new fan. It did not take me long to realize there is some fuckery on how penalties are dished out. Have seen so many races where one driver gets hit with one but then a few laps later another doesn't for an even more egregious or obvious illegal move.
@@iWelshy exactly this, and even then McLaren pitwall screwed this up but not giving the position back
So if you dive bomb to overtake, you get penalised, if you dive bomb to defend you get rewarded. Two different approaches for the same move. Well done FIA and stewards
correct
Casual fans will look at this and find a way to disagree😂
I don’t like lando and think he’s been a pussy this year. However that move by max was wild. Almost as bad as Brazil 2021
@@mikieedwards28 just looking at the fact that its far easier to overtake than to defend. I can totally agree with this penalty. if lando was a better driver he would have found a way past on track. Also a beautifull defence by max.
@@mikieedwards28 I'm a fan of Max's and I agree with you. Anyone can get to the apex first if they choose not to turn and run off. However, and this has been bothering me: did Lando not have a black and white flag already on him by this point? I assume that if Max had also had a black and white flag on him, they would have both gotten 5 sec penalties, but then that would mean that Lando passing Max or Lando giving the position back would have made no difference
If Lando had a black and white flag by this point, and Max was not found to have run Lando off the track (also a valid discussion to have), he was gonna pick up a 5 sec penalty.
Or is it the argument that they both went off track in the heat of racing, no penalties should have applied? which isn't an unreasonable position either.
If one of them had a b&w flag and the other one didn't needs to also be addressed when having the opinion that no penalty should have applied, or maybe it should be Max's penalty for running Lando off track, i don't know
@@mikieedwards28And you're are a purist are you?
Max has become an expert at exploiting the FIA's poorly devised overtake rule. Even though Lando was ahead of Max entering the corner, Max has learned that simply not braking enough to make the corner is all he needs to do to hit the apex first and then push a car off the track. So of course Max gets to the apex ahead of Lando, because he has no intention of completing the corner on the track. He's done it over and over against Lewis (see Brazilian GP from 2021) and will just keep doing it. With Lando ahead of Max entering the corner, he's clearly visible to Max, and Max should be required to give Lando a car's width on the exit. If Lando can't stay on the track on his own (not forced off), then he's got to give the position back. If he can, then they should both be exiting toward the next corner side-by-side... and that's what every fan would prefer to see, more wheel-to-wheel racing.
People keep saying that Max was ahead at the apex, but fail to look at how he got there. Lando was ahead going into the braking zone, but Max dive bombed him, resulting in both of them going off the track. Want to give Lando 5s for an illegal overtake? fine. Give 5s to Max for forcing another driver off the track.
Kyviat must be so unhappy he didn't race in these current rules. Torpedo in grab the apex push them off and they get a penalty.
You need to be at the right time at the right moment. Kyviat was ahead of his time. Potential World Champion material.
Not that simole, if you miss a little bit, you'll be the one getting penalty
Kvyat would have been monstrous. Go back and look at his torpedo comps they look just like Verstappen from this and previous season making moves on Norris. Poor guy.
@@hansmuller1933world champion material lol
@@MohamedLamkhizni Kvyat was very good on his day. Shame he never reached his potential, should be at RB rn.
Dumbest rules ever, if *both* cars go totally outside track limits then it should be cancelled out. F1 needs to get on top of this constant track limit shambles.
Nope. Because every car is allowed to go over track limits. You have 4 strikes to go for it. But gaining advantage and overtaking is something else. Anyone can go off the track there even by themselves. That'snot "racing" scenario. It can just happen.
There were inconsistent application of the rules to other incidents also.
@@supernotnatural he is talking about both cars going off track and a penalty getting applied only to one.
Totally 100 percent right
@@PixelCortexmax could go as wide as he wanted, like he was alone on track, bc norris did not have right to any place on the outside
The only reason Verstappen was "ahead at the apex" was because he dived up the inside with no intention of making the corner. Lando was ahead entering the braking zone, that's what should matter. Otherwise you can just punt your rival off if you throw it up the inside each time. FIA need some actual racers in its head office 💀
Verstappen made the corner better than Lando, if you look at Lando's onboard you can see he is full steering lock and he still goes wide, even if you take the redbull out of the picture, Lando is still going wide, there is a reason why Max is 30cm away from the track limits and why Lando is 3 metres away from track limits
@@KeaganRules "Verstappen made the corner better than Lando"
YEAH he made it so well he pushed lando off the track
", even if you take the redbull out of the picture, Lando is still going wide"
LMAO what? no he does not, if the redbull isnt there he does not have to take evasive manouvers twice to make sure he doesnt hit verstappen
@@KeaganRulesneither car made the corner at all.
Verstappen had nothing stopping him other than his own inability to turn in because he had out braked himself.
Landonhad to avoid a car which was not under control on his inside.
Max almost made the corner, it was inches. Norris should have braked and made the corner behind Max. He could then argue that Max went off track to gain an advantage and Max would get 5s.
Or he should have tried again when he was more ahead. This would have made Max's late braking become more of a desperate lunge.
Either way, hard racing, not Kindergarten.
Stick to flipping cars Ben, because flipping heck you've lost the plot. Verstappen made the corner on both occasions.
Putting gravel would work because it's a natural deterrent to running off the track to keep your position.
You can just crowd the other car into the gravel the same way.
@@denithy Of course, but then the foul would be clear. Also I was referring to the practice of going so deep into the corner whilst defending the inside that you run off the track as well.
I would not expect COTA to install gravel at T12
It would make even less sense here cuz Lando would have got beached. That's a harsher penalty than 5 seconds
COTA also hosts NASCAR and MotoGP. Series' where gravel traps are a big no no.
Also we don't want pebbles flying at the crowds.
Stella had a terrible take saying the decision should come after the race. We have pushed for years for quicker responses it was good they decided in the race
Quicker but not wrong responses. If you have doubt, then take time but don’t just dish out any decision.
@@ToneHelix97 They didn't have doubts. We know this because they gave their ruling very quickly.
McLaren not liking the answer doesn't mean they had doubts.
According to the rules, the call is correct. Max was ahead at the apex, so it's his corner and Norris isn't entitled to space. Norris overtook around the outside anyway, so it's a penalty. And it's not like they ignored that Max also went off, since the penalty should have been 10 seconds but was only 5 because Max was also off.
@@andrewb378 like masi didn’t have doubts on safety car rules. Got it.
@@andrewb378 correct they made the right decision based on the rules so I’m happy it was made in the race. I’m not a fan of the rules wish the line was treated as a “wall” you can push someone into. That being said the decision based on the rules was correct brilliant defensive by max
@@ThemanngamingIf the telemetry suggests Norris was driving into that "wall," regardless, then Verstappen can't be forcing him into it, which was likely an element of the ruling. One of the elements of the whole "treat the line like it's a wall" mantra is that (like Freitas in the WEC says) "if you hit the wall, don't be surprised if it takes you out of the race." I imagine if we followed that sort of rule here and Lando still went off, then The Race would have a video conplaining about it...
What happened to "All the time you have to leave a space!" rule?
Max can just drive anyone out of track all the time, and that is okay?
@@bfapple he literally lost a podium in 2017 because he did what norris did. Blame the stewards for being incompetent not take away from verstappen's drive because you dislike him
Norris was dive bombing into a space that wasn't there.
@@issammelzi728you had to go back SEVEN years to find an example?
Yes. That's the new Max rule apparently. He can win championships by driving others off track (or by crashing into them if they don't comply).
@@issammelzi728 To be fair it's not even a Vertsappen only thing, they illustrated it well in the video this interpretation of the rules basically gives all the advantage to the lead driver, I'm fairly confident we all want to see more overtakes so something has to change to discourage the purposeful running wide at such corners in order to force your opponent off.
As a very much a casual F1 viewer, it is always so strange to me to see these incidents happen, where the driver on the inside just pushes another car outside of the track and doesn't get penalised for it.
Well since you are only a casual F1 viewer then i assume you dont know the rules
@KeaganRules but Yuki, Russell and Oscar all got penalties for pushing a driver off, weird that
There are some rules in the spirit of good racing and allowing overtaking on the outside that force the inside car to keep space for the outside car.
Otherwise they would just drive the corner normally and the outside car has nowhere to go and you can't overtake.
In turn always needing to leave space is also not a good option as this always forces the inside driver into a suboptimal cornering line and can be abused by the outside driver.
So sometimes they need to leave space and sometimes they dont.
It depends if they outside care is alongside at the apex.
If so they haave the right to the corner and are not allowed to be pushed off.
If they are not (like the stewards judged in the max/lando incident). The outside car does not have a right to the corner and the inside car can drive whatever line he wants.
This last bit is the most important in all incidents. Because if you are not alongside at the apex, the whole "pushing someone off" or "he also didn't make the corner" part is mute.
@@KeaganRulesGo back to Nascar or wherever you come from. Your trolling is pathetic, such driving standards are not allowed in any respectable racing series
@@KeaganRules wow you are an asshole
I think that what should have happened is both getting 5 sec penalties. Norris passed off track, Verstappen forced a driver off track. That is so clear.
If that's your take then Lando would get 10s and Max still 5s piastri gets p3
@@kingotaku3389 Fine. Still fairer than what happened, and gives all the drivers the right deterrents in future
@@kingotaku3389well oscar wouldve slowed down enough to stay behind lando according to mclaren. he was already slowing down to stay behind him incase of penalty
10s and 5s would have been clearer, but 5s and 5s would have been unfair in the current rules.
@@ppnexus2000 then Max would get p3. Better Oscar just kept pace lando would still be behind max
The apex rule is such nonsense, it just allows drivers to divebomb up the inside with no intention of making the corner yet they're apparently still entitled to the place.
3:45 regarding gravel traps, I completely disagree with your conclusion that it would turn out the same - the mentality knowing that if you brake late or drive wide ends your race, will prevent the drivers from going into a corner with no intention of actually making it.
In that case max can force lando into gravel instead
Max would have still be fine since he had 2 wheels on the kerbs. It would be Lando that would have got beached. That's worse than a 5 sec penalty. I would rather not have gravel so it at least gives another opportunity to the driver who was wronged whoever the wronged driver you think is
@@jonaseriksson3782 Yep and the 5 sec penalty will be well worth Max's trouble. I think other drivers have to say f*** it and do what Lewis did in Silverstone 2021, yield or we crash.
And if the gravel doesn't work, just build a wall
That would work for most drivers but two issues. Max has shown he'd be very happy pushing other drivers into the gravel trap and even if he did go in it he's well ahead on points, Norris needs them more than him.
How Does Verstappen keep getting away with this garbage! Verstappen clearly took the corner too fast, to try to stop Norris from gaining an advantage and forced them both off the track! How Norris got a 5 second penalty is just ludicrous
The only reason the lead car has to run so wide and “push off the track” is that there is no actual end of the track for them to shut the door on. If there was no drivable surface past the white lines, the lead car just needs to take a slightly less aggressive line through the corner because they would achieve the same effect
Funny how they ignore Norris blatanly blocking Sainz during sprint race with a sudden move during a corner turn and not having a penalty.
YESSSSSSSS 🤷♀️ VERY STRANGE NEH‼‼‼‼
It's been said, but Kvyat was taken from us too soon. He would have reached unfathomable heights under this FIA.
10 second for Norris for passing outside, reduced to 5s because pushed off by Max, Max gets 5 for pushing a car off. They even out, race goes on, this is what SHOULD have happened!
You make it sound like Kvyat is dead or something. Max took his soul, took his girlfriend, took his daughter.
😂😢
@@flacohernandez4380 Bro took his driving style too 😔
My question is, why wasn’t their more focus on lando moving under braking on max after he passed? People saying fia favoring max but lando literally getting away with dirty driving in both sprint and gp
What focus? Max did it like 3 times in Austria and didn’t get penalized.
You can cry
All the time you got to leave a space...
Petition to have Alonso be a head steward after he retires 😅
ok!?
Right? I do not understand how Max can violate "You must leave any car with "any significant's parts of their car beside" 1-car's width of space" aka the '1-Car Width Rule' also covered in the Driving Standards Guidelines amended in 2022 (largely because, go figure, Max's dive-bomb and completely straight-lining most of aT6 Abu Dhabi the year before to spear Hamilton off the track) and constantly drives competitors off the track if they are beside into a turn, but then Norris gets a +5 second penalty and Max gets no time penalty (or even a warning whatsoever).
Either give both +5 seconds or no one gets a penalty and they race on. But to give only one car a penalty, the one that was INTENTIONALLY run off the track while Max RAN OFF THE TRACK track himself - which the FIA admitted to in their post race report and then go on to write some absolutely nutter senseless hoebabble that, "Max was allowed to leave the track to Defend" is beyond horseshit! You're allowed to leave the circuit to defend?! WTF?!
Where does it stop? Can Max run all the way to the goddamn stands to defend too? Can he leave the track and take his arc all the way to Dallas to defend?
Redbull has the FIA in their pocket at this point and there's simply no way anyone can deny it after this. No rational way. Period. Dead stop. Don't even try to argue it. This ruling and their insanely illogical explanation - one that violated their own Driving Standards Guidelines regulations - proved it.
Iv seen people drive bumper cars with more respect than some F1 overtake attempts. The rule regarding cars being in the lead at the corner apex seems to leave too much grey area for drivers to abuse, you get a lot of drivers pushing for that lead at the apex by sacrificing the corner exit which in turn drives the outside car off the road as the only outcome possible.
IMO, that makes great racing, you need to have good race craft, not just a fast car.
That is exactly what is happening
I don't agree with that. If Max outbrakes himself and goes deep, Lando can do the opposite brake and turn early and switch to the inside. Lack of imagination and skills I guess
@@yavoryakimov3324 Normally you brake later than your opponent, thats the idea. If you dont brake later, they just take the normal racing line. Have you never actually raced before? Lando cant suddenly slow the car more because Max brakes late... LOL
Stewards always think F1 is more about penalties rather than wheel to wheel racing
Wheel to wheel racing outside of the track is not the same as wheel to wheel racing.
‘But Max left the track too’. There is a strike system for that. Where Norris was already on his last strike by the way. 3/4.
Get your facts right. Racing is about battling it out on the track. Not outside of it.
@@facts3221 Okay, the strike system is failing if by your own admission, it can be used to allow racing outside of track. It should strictly be for mistakes only.
@@F1ll1nTh3Blanks you are putting words in my mouth. Or purposely misinterpreting what I said to justify an illegal overtake.
Going off track is punished after a certain amount of times as it might give you unwarranted lap time or create risk and dangerous situations. The strike system makes sense as racing is high speed, high intensity and this can happen without intent. Getting you a warning basically.
Overtaking outside of track is a separate issue. You are purposely passing a competitor that has priority in the corner.
You are trying to bring them together to create vagueness and justify an illegal overtake.
So based on my analysis Max should just get one strike. Norris a penalty for overtaking outside of the track.
@@facts3221 so some one can push 3-4 cars off the track or to the wall before getting a penalty gotcha
The Race will always make videos defending the British.
Max did nothing wrong, Norris wasn't far enough alongside Max, simple as that.
Rules are fine. Max just wasn't also given a penalty for gaining a lasting advantage by running off track. They both should have got 5 seconds.
Sporting regs also cover erratic driving, the kind we've seen from Max since 2021, but the stewards are too chicken to enforce - or they're just Derek Warwick who likes Max and Jos
This is the bit that confused me. Verstappen went off the track and gained an advantage. If they don't penalise Norris there is no advantage, but they did penalise Norris, and so Max did gain an advantage, and thus he should also have had a penalty. Then it would have been Lando 3rd Oscar 4th Piastri 5th. That failure to penalise Max for it gave him a 9 point delta vs Lando.
@@VeryIntellijent Indeed. There were also driver guidelines published in 2022 because of what happened at Brazil 2021: "The car being overtaken must be capable of making the corner while remaining within the limits of the track”. For some reason everyone, including the FIA and stewards seem to have forgotten them.
Or they should have made a quick decision and tell Lando to give the position back. They waited too late to give him the 5 sec penalty. McLaren should of told him to give the position back just in case they decided to penalize Verstappen for pushing him off the track. Verstappen is a pretty moronic driver and I think Lando should have waited because he was clearly faster.
I miss one thing in the discussion and also sadly in this video.
The (DRS) rules favor the car behind. If you then regulate the defending too restrictive, real battles will never happen again. You relegate the car in front to a sitting duck.
Norris didn't get past Max completely and he did it (had to) on the outside... That's asking for trouble but it also means squeezing the car being overtaken means it is more likely to run wide...
Max used the rules to his advantage, yes.. and left the track, yes, clearly. But would he have stayed on track if Norris had moved to the right more for the overtake? Could Norris then maybe switch back if Max outbraked himself? Squeezing the car on the inside while not being completely ahead creates this scenario...
An amendment to the guideline should be that the defending car must stay on track with both from and rear tyre, or lose position, if an overtaking car gets ahead at any point before the apex.
Yep, Norris gained 7 tenths every time down the back stretch. The DRS is simply too powerful on higher- downforce tracks. The leading car is a sitting duck every time.
@@steve4880 except clearly he's not a "sitting duck every time" given that this was the only real chance that Norris ever had. Always the excuses for the guys who's afraid to race wheel to wheel like Verstappen. He's nothing without his 20 second advantage Neweymobile.
@@f1jones544Max defended for 6 laps against a car probably close to a second faster per lap... Tell me who has defended like that in recent years? That is wheel to wheel and he just waited for Norris and gave it his best shot. He could have pitted for soft and went for points but he didn't. Even a lot of journalists ranked his performance above that of Leclerc, Sainz and Norris...
The DRS is a compensation for how dirty air affects current cars, which very much favors the car ahead. These grey zone tactics effectivelly kill real battles, as they make it impossible to pass in a corner.
@@Kopzif long answer so read till the end...
yet the 2022+ cars show there is more overtaking than before so maybe Drs could be reduced. Rules to regulate defending/attacking help to keep it clean but I feel this particular rule about being ahead at the apex needs tweaking. I would include "the attacking or defending car on the inside of a corner MUST stay on track while attacking and/or defending. The car on the outside must stay on track, unless going off track is to avoid contact. However going off track cannot lead to a net time gain or an overtake or it will be an automatic penalty to be judged on severity by the stewards"
I don't get the idea that it was using the rules to the limit seen as max wasn't even on the track meaning he didn't make the corner
You could argue Norris should have done this a couple laps earlier and tried to get the gap to 5 seconds
Exactly. Which he absolutely could have.
He could also have just given the place back and overtaken Max in the next two laps, which was certainly possible based on how much he was outpacing the RB.
Ah well, the pit wall told him he was ahead at the apex and he believed them.
Done this early it would have been 10 not 5
I think a huge issue is this puts people off F1 who have a casual interest. As they will be very confused why the driver doing nothing wrong gets punished.
Max is just a bully...the simple solution is this: Monitor brake pressure on the way and into corner (trail braking is used in F1) in race pace for every driver. Thats the "average braking routine" of said driver, essentially an "average braking vs distance" graph. Since braking changes as fuel goes down and tires wear off it can be re-calculated every 5-6 laps, timeframe within which we assume that conditions remain unchanged. Under battle conditions you will be allowed to push the "average braking routine" by some defined margin e.g. 10%, which will translate to some other "braking vs distance" graph. If you exceed your "average braking routine + 10%" and the result is both cars going off the track, then the defending car either gives the position or gets a penalty, because we can safely assume that the intention is not to defend but to "force another driver off the track". Thats much more rational than the "first at the apex" rule, which will always be met if you just dive bomb (as Max does) into a corner while the car attacking is putting a move on you. Stewards has access to the telemetry data so it is easily measurable and algorithmically calculable....this stupidity needs to stop....lets not have another 21 cause Max's childish approach of "I'll win at all costs" its getting really annoying....
Divebomb overtake on the inside and staying on track? 5 second penalty. Divebomb defending and not staying on track? 5 second penalty for the attacking driver. Make it make sense
Hamilton fans realized this in 21 but you guys were so focused on getting a new champion that you threw the baby out with the bath water. We were able to see where this was headed glad you could catch up
So basically Max is entitled to do what he wants when defending, going off track gaining an advantage, forcing another driver off track, both things he did in this race, but everyone else has to adhere to the rules or else.
Great job FIA stewards…
At the end of the day , its Mclearn team fault for not making Lando give the place back .
lmao
My issue with this whole scenario is that we are discouraging racing. My other issue is drivers not staying on the track the rumble curbs and run off is not the track. Those areas should be for oops last resort driver error buffer to save the car from walls and traps. We also need instant decisions to either give back or it stands. This scenario Max was in the wrong for running Lando off the track he should have left a car width. For him running wide he should have also received a 5 second penalty.
FIA: we need more overtaking!
Also the FIA: don’t overtake!
I think there’s a point that’s missed by everyone including the stewards.
Lando enters the braking zone, ahead of Max. Tell me how max is the defender when technically he is behind? So with that logic, Max is now the attacker, on the inside and re overtakes at the apex, so by the rules he should get a penalty. I can’t see how anyone can logically claim that max was the defender when he was technically behind for a couple meters entering the corner. Id love someone to counter my point as i can’t see any it any other way.
For me it shouldn't matter who is ahead on the apex if one driver is clearly alongside on the apex like Lando was he should be given space. If Lando would just have his nose alongside Verstappen it would have been a different situation apart from the fact that if Max was as far ahead Lando would have never been able to find enough grip of the track to outtraction. The fact that Lando came out ahead despite the lower grip shows that Lando was clearly alongside and deserved the space from Max.
@@EinfachnurItax360 I agree, anytime someone is significantly alongside they should be given space - im just using the current rules and showing how easy it is to interpret them so differently. Rules are terrible
Because Lando isn't *fully* ahead by the braking zone, just mostly ahead. The move isn't "done" yet, so he isn't the leading driver. They're still in the same battle and when that battle started, Max was ahead.
@@JaytaliseSo under your suggestion, you would be allowed to steam in around the outside, cut the inside driver off despite that they've already committed to their braking point and can't bail out, and despite that being entirely the fault of the driver on the outside, the inside driver would get the penalty?
There is a reason there is a heavier burden placed on the aggressive driver to make it a safe overtake... by virtue of being the one picking and choosing when and what they're doing, they usually end up with more responsibility for what ensues.
@@andrewb378he was actually over a car length ahead into the braking zone, watch the video on it again, max just broke so late (to the extent he didn’t make the corner) that he got ahead at the ‘apex’
When Verstappen did it in Austria it was fine for Max to keep his place whilst off track. But when Max is the one to lose out it’s suddenly an issue. The stewards and the FIA have some serious work to do.
Max didn’t even bother to try making that corner. His aim was to push off Lando…
Exactly. Max went right at the corner, and so hard he couldn't stay even partially on track. Max has always been petty.
His antics and lack of self-control are well documented and go back to his first year at RB in 2017. And he'll keep doing it because FIA allows it.
@@makeyourmark00 *FIA, not FIFA. Wrong sport.
@@Heist1000 Yeah, I got excited...lol
it's such a shame that every good season we get is marred in silly controversy thanks to stewarding inconsistencies.
Why was it not the case that because Max took his foot off the brake so he could get his nose ahead. It was Max that was overtaking, so it could have been, Norris didn’t gain an advantage during overtaking and Max pushed Norris off the track so should have got the penalty?
This nonsense of who was ahead at the apex needs to stop as soon as someone pushes another off track
There needs to be a penalty for driving another driver off track. Lando wouldn't have been there had Max not braked so late and put him there. Not to mention how Max was ALSO off track. Not to mention how Max passed Sainz outside the track earlier in the race. Not to mention how Russell got a penalty for pushing a driver wide.... It takes NO TALENT to just cut someone off at the end of the corner every time you're battling for position. Max has no race craft. Max's only plan is "let off and give me the position, or I crash us both" If I were Lando, I wouldn't have lifted, drove right into him, and let him deal with the consequences like he did at Silverstone in 2021 with Lewis. Max has to learn eventually
There *is* a penalty for pushing someone off the track. It's 5 seconds. Norris overtook off the track, which is a 10 second penalty, not a 5 second one. That 10 second penalty was reduced by 5 seconds because Max went off with him.
Russell was the attacker when he pushed Bottas off, which is why he got 5 seconds. He pushed someone off the track to make a move stick. Max was the defending driver. Whether you think there should be a difference or not, the rules treat these situations differently.
It absolutely does take talent to do what Max does. You'd lock up every single time. Besides that, he's also covering off the undercut on the exit.
Before you advocate for Lando to just torpedo Max, you need to take a breath and think about what Max is doing. He's not trying to win at COTA. He's trying to win the driver's championship. That's why he was fine with letting the Ferraris through early. He's not trying to beat the Ferrari's, he's trying to not get beat by Lando. He could come in 19th and be fine with it as long as Lando comes in 20th. So if Lando just turns into him at 19 and they both crash out, Max is fine with that. He doesn't lose to Lando, so his lead in the driver's championship stays the same. Lando using his car as a battering ram for some childish form of vigilante justice plays directly into Max's strategy.
@@andrewb378 And "Lando to torpedo Max..."? No. Think back to Silverstone 2021 moron. Max torpedoed himself because he can't race wheel to wheel with other drivers. MAX WOULD HAVE SENT LANDO INTO THE WALL HAD LANDO NOT WENT OFF TRACK. What part of that do you not see? "If I can't pass you, I'll just wreck you unless you get out of the way..." Yeah, lots of fucking talent in that
Good luck for the rest of the season then. Try that and the rest of the weekends, Yuki will take out norris and Lawson take out Piastri.
“Your rival can’t be ahead at the apex if there is no apex”
-Maximilian Emilian Verstappen Esq. (probably)
Quality of this video's really is top notch and it just keeps getting better. Thanks for putting in the effort every time.
Overtaking is being penalised whilst defending is being protected. Insane.
Surprised yous didn't compare the Norris vs Verstappen move to the Sainz vs Verstappen move at the exact same corner on lap 1
It seems pretty clear to me that the only reason Max was ahead at the apex is because he never had any intention of making the corner. It's easy to outbrake someone when you don't have to make the corner.
It's his predominant driving style. He really doesn't like racing wheel to wheel.
So Norris is punished yet Max was allowed to dive bomb and that's okay because he would be an inch ahead at the apex?? 🤔🤔 Norris was only off track because Max didn't leave him any space at all...
What if Lando just give back position right away?
Will Max be the one penalized instead?
How can Max's 5 sec penalty be cancelled out? It's not like there's only 2 driver racing on the circuit.
Loads of people saying that the rules/regs need to be looked at or that Verstappen was ok and Lando should get a penalty for overtaking whilst off the track. The FIA Formula 1 Driving Standards Guidelines were last published in 2022 and says the following wrt overtaking on the outside specifically about the car on the inside being overtaken - "The car being overtaken must be capable of making the corner while remaining within the limits of the track.” That is specifically IMO to stop what Verstappen is doing in braking way later when challenged to the extent he can't make the corner and at the same time pushing the other car off as well (or colliding with them if they dont yield). Note the use of the word MUST. Hence why is he (and others) not penalised. Yes Lando gets 5 sec penalty but so should Verstappen. Why do the FIA continue to cherry pick which bits of their guidelines they apply.
There's a SIMPLE way to stop all this. Bring back track barriers. You don't get track limit issues on street circuits
I don't disagree, but wouldnt stroll just cause constant yellow and red flags?
@@mustuddd only on the first corner 🤣
@@RelicHuntersWales just coming here after the formation lap in Brazil...
LOL, the problem is the stewards and not the drivers.
Max was a problem too because he wasn't even able to keep his own car within track limits.
Throw these rules and guidelines in a trash can, make the cars smaller, and tracks wider on the exit of such corners like COTA T12, that will allow drivers to go around the outside without leaving the track and it's all sorted. If you can't widen the track put the damn gravel there. It looked ridiculous yesterday, and the stewards decision made it even worse
tbh you can't just widen the exit, or that becomes the new racing line :D but I get your sentiment.
Seconded, good racing is what we all want, this kind of stuff is just silly.
The size of the cars is irrelevant. We routinely had races in the early 00s with zero passes or even attempts when the cars were tiny. In fact, there are literal semi truck races with actual passing
I'm so tired of people hiding behind the rulebook when it literally contradicts itself. In one breathe it says about being first at the apex, in another it says about the need to give racing room to the other car. Why is the apex so much more important, especially when meeting the apex at the corner and going off track are essentially contradictions to driving standards. If you drive off track whilst 'making the apex', you did not make the apex with enough control to complete the corner.
Dog shit rulebook defending by idiots who accept this touring car level of defending. Max doesn't push the limits of the rules, he steps over them but the stewards are weak. We saw this in 2021. We saw him crash into Lewis at Hungary and the stewards had the audacity to blame Lewis. We've now seen it again.
Add to that the other inconsistencies. On Saturday Magnussen kept position off track on lap 1, no penalty. On Saturday Tsunoda was forced off by Hulk and Piastri, no penalty. But yesterday we saw a Ferrari keep position off track, several other cars block pass and force others off, to no penalties...in the same race drivers did get penalties for the exact same things.
Don't get me started on the lenience on lap 1 incidents. The sport is a shambles when it comes to wheel to wheel racing. Max is often involved in these controversies because he's one of the few to take it too far every single time. He's not doing something right, the stewards are doing things wrong by ignoring it.
Journalists need to do their fucking job and call the sport out instead of hiding behind the contradictions in the rulebook. Have we learned nothing in recent years about how shit stewards are at applying rules?
They ruined the best race of the year!
Verstappen was too late on the brakes and forced him out, like what the actual frick was Norris supposed to do!? Crash!?!?!? F the FIA
“Ruined” = “The British guy didn’t get away with it.” Lando is the new Lewis with the Brit media
Bolox.
If you don't like watching British media, puss off and watch media from your own cunttree 😂
It’s basically a repeat of Brazil 2021, and looking back I think everyone can agree what the outcome of that should have been
They let the psychopath get away with it, that is why he keeps doing it
Make sure to keep that same energy when the role is reversed and max is the one taking a penalty........ but I won't be holding my breath
Bold of you to assume Max would get a penalty
I bet if the roles were reversed, he would just turn into Lando on purpose and then cry on the radio
@AdamKadill bold of you to state something that is verifiably, factually incorrect. How about you just sit this one out
@@kameransnyder9596 bold of you to be so confident and yet so wrong. Considering Max didn't get a penalty, and also didn't get a penalty for doing this exact move in Austria is verifiably, factually correct. How about you sit this one out kid
@AdamKadill ill give you some time to fact check yourself on that 10 second penalty max got in austria. Like I said, you should probably sit this out
It seems like Verstappen could do that every lap which would mean that it would not be possible for Norris to overtake at all without getting a penalty.
I agree with McLaren. I would not have asked Lando to give it back. The tactic Max was using to block Lando isn’t racing it was blocking and at the point he took 4 off the line the battle should have been the battle.
key facts are... RB is sponsoring so many motorsport events that FIA has to suck them constantly. RB joining motorsport is the worst thing ever that happened to it (motorsport).
If a Brit is affected, it’s a controversy. 😁
As always
💯
Fr
No lie detected 😂😂😂
Stop it. The stewards are FOS and violated their own rules ... again.
I do not understand how Max can violate "You must leave any car with "any significant's parts of their car beside" 1-car's width of space" aka the '1-Car Width Rule' also covered in the Driving Standards Guidelines amended in 2022 (largely because, go figure, Max's dive-bomb and completely straight-lining most of aT6 Abu Dhabi the year before to spear Hamilton off the track) and constantly drives competitors off the track if they are beside into a turn, but then Norris gets a +5 second penalty and Max gets no time penalty (or even a warning whatsoever).
Either give both +5 seconds or no one gets a penalty and they race on. But to give only one car a penalty, the one that was INTENTIONALLY run off the track while Max RAN OFF THE TRACK track himself - which the FIA admitted to in their post race report and then go on to write some absolutely nutter senseless hoebabble that, "Max was allowed to leave the track to Defend" is beyond horseshit! You're allowed to leave the circuit to defend?! WTF?!
Where does it stop? Can Max run all the way to the goddamn stands to defend too? Can he leave the track and take his arc all the way to Dallas to defend?
Redbull has the FIA in their pocket at this point and there's simply no way anyone can deny it after this. No rational way. Period. Dead stop. Don't even try to argue it. This ruling and their insanely illogical explanation - one that violated their own Driving Standards Guidelines regulations - proved it.
It's so crazy how the FIA is so inconsistent with their ruling, the racing was cool and all, but man the way these rules are being ruled is so inconsistent.
Gotta hate the rules, not the players, both were doing some insane dives.
I’m sorry but how the fuck are you allowed to defend your position by pushing the overtaking car of track by so far that even you can’t make the corner. This is the same as Brazil 2021, just less extreme
This is extremely easy to resolve.
If you have your front tire along side (equal to or in front) of your competitors rear tyre; both care must allow for enough spare for both cars to remain on the track. That means at both the apex and the exit.
All we learn from this is that we need to bring back gravel traps on all corners.
And I've just been wondering why nobody is talking about Verstappen FORCING Norris of the track at turn 1 while DIVE BOMBING, and OVERTAKING
Turn 1 incidents are almost never penalized. There's just too many cars in too tight a space. If the stewards tried to dish out punishments for every lap 1 incident they'd still be working on them now.
the punishment doesnt matter if you're overtaking or defending; it matters is you're Max Verstappen or not
Didn't we not also say this about Prost, Schumacher and Hamilton?
FIAstappen
I literally turned off the TV and got out of the room when Norris got the penalty. I don't want to get to the final track and Max is sitting comfortable at the top. I want the title to be decided until the end of the season.
In any other large series this would have been a non-issue
I feel for Lando. The team were aware of the penalties in that race and could see it was marginal. However, Verstappen should not be intentionally pushing a car off the track. They should have both received a penalty.
You can absolutely push a car off the track. Do you actually watch this sport? jfc.
@@CL_Hat can =\= should
Something you're missing is that straight after getting ahead Lando said he thought he was ahead at the apex and asked the team to let him know if that was wrong. Clearly he knew that was the crucial point. The team told him they thought he was ahead at the apex and they were wrong. They later reiterated that, even after they'd have had a chance to check the video feed, where they should have seen they were wrong. I don't blame Lando or the stewards but the fact is that McLaren messed up.
No I blame Max for not even attempting to make the corner and forcing Lando off.
@@Alex-cw3rz And you think Max cares that you blame him? The fact is that the stewards made their judgement based on the same thing they always have - who was ahead at the apex. McLaren had their blinders on and didn't see that and they only have themselves to blame.
@@maxxuman9915 Stop it. The stewards are FOS and violated their own rules ... again.
I do not understand how Max can violate "You must leave any car with "any significant's parts of their car beside" 1-car's width of space" aka the '1-Car Width Rule' also covered in the Driving Standards Guidelines amended in 2022 (largely because, go figure, Max's dive-bomb and completely straight-lining most of aT6 Abu Dhabi the year before to spear Hamilton off the track) and constantly drives competitors off the track if they are beside into a turn, but then Norris gets a +5 second penalty and Max gets no time penalty (or even a warning whatsoever).
Either give both +5 seconds or no one gets a penalty and they race on. But to give only one car a penalty, the one that was INTENTIONALLY run off the track while Max RAN OFF THE TRACK track himself - which the FIA admitted to in their post race report and then go on to write some absolutely nutter senseless hoebabble that, "Max was allowed to leave the track to Defend" is beyond horseshit! You're allowed to leave the circuit to defend?! WTF?!
Where does it stop? Can Max run all the way to the goddamn stands to defend too? Can he leave the track and take his arc all the way to Dallas to defend?
Redbull has the FIA in their pocket at this point and there's simply no way anyone can deny it after this. No rational way. Period. Dead stop. Don't even try to argue it. This ruling and their insanely illogical explanation - one that violated their own Driving Standards Guidelines regulations - proved it.
Should be as simple as, If a driver leaves the track, they lose the advantage affording to them by the apex. Would give us such good racing and stop these dive bomb defences that ruin a good race.
Thing is, Max didn't leave the track. Otherwise, he'd have been flagged for "forcing another driver off the track", or with a track limits infraction. Neither happened, so the move was on
@@halofreak1990 the stewards literally acknowledged that max went off the track. If that wasn't the case, we'd be arguing that Lando's penalty wasn't enough cause his offense is a 10 sec penalty offense
I feel like context should be taken more seriously in moments like these. Either that or the rules shouldn't be bent in any form or way
IN NASCAR, all stewards make reulings in real time, usually within 30 seconds or so. If you go below the yellow lines "track limit" to pass, you simply give the spot back. If you are forced down there, even if you pass, no problem you keep the spot gained. Having 5 or 10 seconds penalty is silly. The rules in NASCAR are keen to keep the guys battling it out for a better fan experience. 5 and 10 second penaties messes that up.
Moral of the story is that you just have to drive your opponent off the track and you can keep your position
why cant they just make the rules so that the defending car has to be ahead of the apex AND make the corner to be able to force the attacking car off track. literally, thats all you have to do to make it fair
That actually is the rule though. They're just two different ones. Making the apex first and not exceeding track limits are both mentioned.
But these thick as shit stewards put priority in the apex as opposed to making the corner. Now, if you don't make the corner, I don't think you actually made the apex in regular fashion at all.
underrated comment
@@LiamJM10 oh
@@LiamJM10 well turns out that that making the corner rule doesnt exist anymore in 2024, that sucks
immediately after that move, I knew Lando was getting a penalty. Just push people wide preventing them from using full throttle outside of the track, while you maximize the racing line and even leave the track yourself. It's just going to cause yet another racing regulation change.
So why didnt max get a penalty when he did the same thing with sainz
@@andrewmelton2686he didn’t. Sainz gained the position and gave Max the position back a few meters down the track. What were you watching?
@nodekapunk turn 12 when sainz divebomved and pushed max off. With went off the track yet max was allowed to stay ahead of sainz. Literally identical situation to lando max at turn 12
@@andrewmelton2686 he wasn’t allowed anything. Sainz gave it back to him on his own because he passed off the track. lol no one forced him to, but he wanted to avoid the penalty
The rule should have to take the intentions of the cars taking the corner in to account. Max has NO intentions to complete the corner. He knows the flaw in the rules and dives ahead first to the apex, KNOWING he wont complete the corner.
There's no way to prove intentions whatsoever. Lockups happen, mistakes happen etc.
The stewards are consistently inconsistent in Max's favor.
Very unfair to McLaren. FIA is not consistent in handing out penalties and if I were McLaren I'd launch 3rd party investigations in how FIA and their employees behave in and off grid.
Title of this video: "British driver got a penalty so I will cry on RUclips"
10 minute video summary:
McLaren are rookies.
This whole comment section is SEETHE
FIA's inconsistency is consistent, at least.
Let's have an overlap rule like we have in sailing. If the overtaking car has an overlap you have to give the overtaking car 'space'; you don't have to let it through, but you do have to give some space.
The reason MV was just ahead at the apex was because he lifted off the break pedal slightly. Lando was ahead before that. So all the defending driver needs to do is break later so they're ahead at the apex even if it means running off the road, a move we've see V do so many times especially in 2021.
Yeah. The Stewards said Lando was ahead at the apex, then all the commentary after the fact says Max was ahead...but only because he divebombed straight for the corner to drive Lando off. Max has serious anger issues. Geez, he's been doing this crap since his rookie year with RB in 2017 and they even created the short-lived "Verstappen Rule"...smh.
Thankfully, Max's fans are now dilligently defending the rules after conveniently forgetting them at the end of 2021.
We had a motor race. Redbull prepared for a restart, Mercedes didn't. Tough luck.
@@CL_HatThe restart didn't comply with the rules.
It wasn't a startegy masterclass eitherway. Horner said that they only pulled Max in because Hamilton stayed out.
@@kaveeshakarunaratne8961 That was up to the race director, who prioritized a race finishing under green flag.
It was seen as the more sporting option, since it wasnt that important letting lapped traffic by with only 1 lap left. And not letting a safety car triggered by a backmarker team decide WDC.
And I never said it was a masterclass in strategy, that is just simply the way the news goes. *We had a motor race*
Amount of people commenting something they don't understand is fun to watch.
Stop comparing this "incident" to Bottas-Russel, or Tsunoda-Albon. These two are non-comparable at all to Max-Lando.
And yet, you offer no argument as to why these instances are different. Fun to watch you call others out without offering any rebuttal of your own, kid.
Saw this in Las Vegas last year when Max pushed leclerc wide on the first corner. Dive bombing is ok.
He's a 3 time world champion. He's not an imbread moron. He was pushing his opponent off the track to gain the advantage. It's plain and simple. He's done it before he'll do it again. The FIA are a bunch of morons
are you gonna be okay?
Max being a fucking genius. Interpreting the FiA rules better than people who write them. And other drivers and many team bosses just can't wrap their heads around it. So they get mad at him for no reason.
Exactly. Hate the game for being flawed not the player for going to the limit.
I’m just happy that Mr. Coca cola-pinto got P10 BABYYYYY
Just another anti Red Bull video by The Race.
Similar event: 2017 Italian GP
Where Palmer "CUT THE CHICKEN" and get a 5 second time penalty.
But didn't Alonso push him off the track? He didn't even leave the space! "ALL THE TIME YOU NEET TO LEAVE THE SPACE" 😂
This is only an issue at COTA mostly I guess, with those very very sharp turns, dive the inside and there is no way the car on the outside can somehow get ahead
I literally switched off my TV when I heard Lando is getting a penalty. What use is watching the race when they aren't allowed to race.
I can spend my time better somewhere else.
The British are crying again
I thought the British never got penalized. I wish you from countries with inferiority complexes would make up your minds.
British salt mines open. So lovely.
6:55 can someone please help me understand what is meant by, “certain patterns in the stewarding decisions…?” I would be grateful. Cheers!
Its funny how these are only "silly rules" when theres no wall. Its a same drivers just dont think that every track has a wall and stay in that mindset as much as possible.
Gravel traps are also a decent option as well.