There is a very important factor that´s missing! The relative speed differences between cars, the last years we had most of the qualifying sessions with the firs ten in one second. This used to be two to three seconds in the Mercedes dominant era, In the McLaren Senna era there was about a second between pole and third on the grid. In the Ascari era there was about 6 seconds between the first ten on the grid. And when the weather "equalizes" the car performance, Max pulls out a from 17th to first in the rain and finished 16 seconds ahead of anyone. If you factor this in then Max´s statistics are even more impressive, in my opinion he´s on top of all. I´m following F1 for about 50 years now.
My grandfather is 84 years old he watches F1 since young age and he works in motorsports for long time in Portugal. He always said to me "the best F1 drivers ever are Jim Clark, Senna and Verstappen" and he was talking about Max since 2014, Max was not even in F1 and he was telling me this boy is going to be one of the best ever in F1!
After watching Brazil 2016 I spent two whole weeks telling my friends that dutch 18 year old was going to be one of the best in history. We will miss drivers like him when he retires
I told my friends when I heard that Jos had become father to a son Max. It was in the stars, and it wasn't even a wild guess or anything. Which person IN THE WORLD had a naturally faster mom who proved it on track in FIA sanctioned high level racing? Oh and his dad raced F1 and wins Rally 2 events at 50+.
I don't go back quite that far, but probably mid 90s (I was 10), I was recording races on VHS and watching them after church. Max is extremely special and it was obvious very early on (even when I didn't like him as a young, fairly reckless guy).
Before Max step in the formula 1, wolff and horner want him because they saw his talent. Max is the only driver on the grid that stop the lewis / Mercedes dominance. Without a Mercedes. Max is faster then lewis.
I 100% agree max is faster But it’s also not fair Because max hasn’t raced Lewis in the era of cars that suited Lewis! This era suits max’s driving style Lewis seems to really struggle with this era as well! Anywho I agree max is faster by far
@@Milkywayboynot really, Max did pretty well in the merc era, his engine wasnt just as powerful and reliable as the mercedes engine. He fought everyone during that era, fought with Nico/Seb/Kimi multiple time where he didnt belong. He was just a lil handicapped because the other had a slightly better car
Lol. That is something Eddie would say. Max is not as good Senna. Senna could make almost any car fast. Max has had a top tier car almost his entire career (same as many 'top" drivers). Then there is Senna's grit. Could max do what Senna did in Brazil, driving an F1 car with 1.5 arms practically willed on by God? No.
When you watch Brazil 2024, when power is not an advantage and you see all the other great drivers from young talents to Alonso not be able to keep in on the track and Max is hitting fastest lap after fastest lap, it's clear he is operating a step above in terms of talent, journalist are scared to offend, they don't give their opinions on who is the best anymore, they always accept excuses blah blah. Reality is that Max is the best driver of this generation by a long shot
Full of shit... Compare his first 3 years in F1... Total disaster and a cluster fuck. Without help from masi and the fia and a car that was illegal he's nothing but backfield material...
@@trance9158 tell me you‘re a biased brit without telling me you‘re a biased brit 😁 Watching Max win is even better, when you remind yourself of how many british people are losing their love for the sport for this exact reason lmfao
@@trance9158 What about Brazil 2024 (or even Brazil 2016) was not great? The RB20 was no longer the fastest car, rain has been Max's strong point as well, on top of his recovery, also set a record of most amount of fastest laps in a row, while others had trouble keeping it on track. (EDIT: actually, i couldn't verify that specific record claim, but there's a lot of other interesting records to his name though, you might want to check them out.) I mean, where's the faults? Sure, i'm a Dutch Max "fanboy", but this is like trying to mock Michael Jordan for having a flawless match, the guy is just at the top of his game and of the sport. Why not engage with the argument, instead of resorting to ad nauseam.
Dear Peter, it is quite brave that you dare to post this as a Brittish F1-expert in these divisive times. That makes you stand out for a lot of F1-loving people that watch the sport for over 40 years (like me). Keep up the good work!
most British F1 journalists give Max fair credit for his achievements. Of course they will also criticise bad driving standards on the occasions we see it. They prob more effusive praising Max than they were with Lewis who has never really had the credit he deserved from the British press
Data does not lie... But the biased fans will always find excuses. For me Max is the greatest and his prime still has to begin... In time he will be the undisputed goat. The numbers will tell...
I wonder what a dedicated AI stat model could come up with? ...given all available data. I dont think the list would change in order. Max is a proven all time great, one of the best of the very best
Max will drive other categories (prototypes) later in his career and then the real comparisons can begin. Anyone that watches the man drive in iRacing will see the level of his skill is beyond belief. He is a true racer through and through and is only gaining experience as time goes by
It's very interesting to look at it more neutrally through statistics. However I still think looking at the great equaliser eg rain shows who the best drivers are and in my mind Senna and Verstappen are absolutely a cut above everyone else... Imagine both of them on the same track in the wet...
@@deerfootnz Schumacher wasn't looking nearly as good let alone dominant duing his first years, when Senna was still there. He only looked dominant next to such ""champions" as Hill, Villeneuve and Hakkinnen, of which even such poor driver as Hill was arguably the best in wet. Not saying Michael wasn;t great in wet, but I personally think Senna and Max were better.
@Stantube1000 not sure I agree with that. I watched Senna race against Brundle in F3 when I was at uni. I watched Schumi in the Benneton and later on. Both were dominant. Both had an unfortunate tendency to invite collisions when competing for corners which I am sure Schumacher got from Senna. Verstappen possibly does this due to his father's influence. The rules are not clear enough, not enforced in any consistent manner and in the end I have just given up watching. It's clear Verstappen is extremely talented. I will never bother watching him because he bahaves so appallingly badly, and now the FIA is returning to the ethos of Jean Marie Balestre. They can all go and f*** themselves, I am going sailing.
There you have it, what I thought all along. Lewis is very good but not outstanding. You never got this wowing feeling like with max in Brazil '24 for instance. I mean, Rosberg has beaten him and this year Russel. Lewis is a great driver for sure, but never mention him as probably the goat again. Stats only don't count, the fans have to be unanimous and they're just not, maybe only in Britain ....
Bro talk about yourself. Hamilton has more wowing moments than Verstappen has races. Max lost to ricciardo twice btw since we are gonna talk about teammates. (the only decent teammate he ever had)
@@trance9158 So I assume you are also complaining constantly about the illegal tire testing Merc did before they went on their dominant streak, no even talking about them starting engine development earlier and strongarming the FIA into hybrids (thank them for no V10s). Am I right? You complain about that too, right? Or do you just act like an 8 year old whose favourite driver lost because he wasnt good enough?
@@arjenkersing Yeahhh, well, Ferrari, McLaren up there now, Lawson as a team mate which won’t help and then the regs change and RB haven’t got the power unit
Peter, I’m first and foremost a F1 fan, since May 1979… I’m a LH44, stood in front of Michael, you name it. You know when I knew Max is the next Senna? 21 in Barcelona, turn 2 in the opening lap, and he passes LH on the outside, a move which is almost impossible…. Max is a true champion, because he’s a fighter. LH is and always will be my champion, because he’s shown it time and again, much like Prost did, win, when everybody had counted him out? Keep rocking
It was turn 1 that max dived into Lewis. It was his classic yield or we crash type move. Lewis stop letting that fly. Senna is still way above max atm.
We don't know how good Max is because he never has to worry about internal competition. The whole team is built around him and the 2nd RB driver is there merely to support him. Liam Lawson has been told to not challenge Max. Why can't Max test himself against a top tier teammate? All his teammates since Ricciardo have been rookies or mid-tier
Max is exceptional, Schumacher and Prost are very good, and excel at the politics of the sport, but the very best pure driver will always be the Gentleman from Balcarce, Juan Manuel Fangio.
@@Dante-w8f Max beat the 'internal competition' in the eyes of the RB management a long time before he became the #1 driver. They - Horner and Marko - knew what they got under contract: a future race- and championship-winner. And so did Toto, but RB got him first. Then came Barcelona 2016, where youngest F1 driver - Max - won his debut race in the RedBull; even Niki Lauda told the world Max was the talent of the century. Naturally the team try to give their future champion a fast as possible car, to maximize his chances... It's clever to have a #2 driver in the team, who actually is and behaves like a #2. Two equal rivaling drivers in one team is asking for internal problems: i.e. Senna/Prost, Rosberg/Hamilton, Leclerc/Sainz, Norris/Piastri..
@@Dante-w8f ”why can’t max test himself against a top tier teammate” Well because that’s not up to him is it? He’s always said that he doesn’t care who his teammate is, and at the end of the day it’s the Red Bull management that makes that call. Ive never understood why people take issue with drivers over factors they have little to no control over, like driver pairings. That being said, I hope to see the day where we do see a proper contender to max in the red bull. Should make for a good show, and hopefully it will finally put all criticism to rest if/when max beats them
@@Dante-w8fMax has been pushing for RedBull to sign Norris. Why? Because he thinks highly of Norris as a person and racer. He is not scared of anyone but with some the chemistry would be much too volatile to win, it would only be mutual destruction. And he doesn't want that, rightly so tbf
He was the driver of the season @trance9158 in an inferior car riddled with bad luck and poor reliability while lewis got the opposite and still held on. The baby jesus made sure he got that title and the next 9. Now try different glu mate she's not working for ye. Buhhhhhhhhhh
In a slower car and those of us who watched the season saw Lewis gain advantage without giving position back 3 races, pit maneuver Max at Silverstone for a 10 second penalty, rear end Max because he didn't want to cross the drs line with Max being penalized (for Lewis running into him), Bottas taking out the field behind Lewis. The season should have been decided in Max's favour prior to Abudabi.
Clark was for me the best, being a 50 year old F1 fan, having watched all the races where there is some images available. You can't compare generations but in these times consistency is king and Max is the most consistent one ever, being able to eek out a lead being 0,2 secs faster every lap...
True but it's a very specific kind of driving ability. Fans tend to rate ace wet drivers really highly but driving tops in the wet doesnt necessarily mean you're tops overall. Most races are dry races, so you probably need to consider that first, though your point is well taken. Id say that it does tend to be the case that the best drivers drive wrll in the wet bc they drive well in ALL conditions. Its not this causal relationship where driving well in the wet makes you good. Youre good, ergo you drive well in all conditions. But I agree that isolating wet races is a solid metric for sure. Definitely a fun latitude to place drivers on.
@@MM-qm9ld all the very best were simultaneously the very best in the rain. fangio, clark, senna, schumacher....wet weather driver takes the most out of every driver and show deficit in technique, confidence and ultimately skill. so, imaginary drivers that would be the very best at their timing driving in wet but would be nothing special in dry never existed. the overall best were always simultaneously the best in wet. no driver that wasn't capable to outshine the rest at his time in the wet could be considered amongst the best of all times.
Real comparisons remain impossible. Not even putting them all in the same car on the same track at the same time and in their prime would give a totally correct outcome. But it still is an interresting discussion. Thanks!
Racing God JIM CLARK - Unmatched Maestro. By far the Greatest Driver Ever - No doubt. He is and was "The Best of the Best" (Fangio, Senna, Prost, Stewart and countless others about Clark). No other driver in history until today was so superior as Clark - No other driver as so much "Grand Slam" - Pole/Win/Fastest Lap/Leading every lap of the race - like him. And all that from just 72 starts... ! This man is the Olymp of driving - the Michelangelo of racing - a dynamic art at the highest level. So smooth, so precise, so fast....simply out of this world. One, who won in Spa by 5 minutes (!) in monsoon rain with only one hand at the wheel (!) because of gearbox trouble...One, who takes back a complete lap (!) in Monza and back into the lead... One, who took pole on the original 22,8 km Nürburgring track by 9 (!) seconds and more....One who won Indy by 2 whole (!) laps... In 1965 he had the most succesful year of any driver in the history of the sport: He won the F1 World Championship, the Tasman Series with F1 cars, the Indy 500, the British and French F2 Championship, the British Touring car Championship, totally over 50 (!) victories in one season !!!! For eternity and by lightyears unmatched in the sport. That`s just some examples of his mesmeric unique genius...
Defining actual GOAT settings based on "facts". Love it Peter! There is always the nuance and decisions/opportunities with an "on any given Sunday" situation. However, comparing Max and his fellow world champs (notably Lewis) through the data illustrates the importance of reality checks. Cheers!
Finally! Thank you so much for this video. I hope this will finally help put an end to the discussion about Max's abilities. Instead of criticizing, let's enjoy his talent. What we're witnessing right now is truly unique. The data speaks for itself. Once again, let's enjoy it!
@@Dante-w8f Well, if you want to call Perez, Sainz, Ricciardo, and Albon bad drivers, you have a point. I don''t think they are. But he outperformed them all. And then again, look at the data
@@Dante-w8fyou can‘t see Max‘ greatness, because you‘re looking for arguments against it brother. If Max had driven against a Sainz and beaten him in comparable fashion to how he outperformed every other teammate, you‘d probably be in denial and claim that RB is simply a one man team, sabotaging Sainz. Just enjoy witnessing greatness live, I am literally thankful for getting to watch this dude drive live, and not having to just hear about it like with Clark or Senna, because I wasn‘t even born back then.
@deanlawrence871 - 2016 was the 3rd year of the turbo-hybrid formula and Mercedes dominance. Rosberg won the WDC title in 2016 by 5pts over Hamilton whom had the only DNF from Mercedes in Malaysia. Ricciardo came in 3rd...then Vettel in 4th. Max came in 5th place in seasonal points for 2016.
Tough to compare him with Senna, because Senna was head and shoulders above the rest in the wet as well, arguably by even bigger extent, but average level of drivers was far lower at Sennas time than it is now on the modern F1 grid. the most talented and best prepared ever.
@ yeah I think he was matching him. Who knows if both were 100% pushing all these years later. I feel like maybe Lewis did start to pull away at one stage
@@CPezno, he already killed his tires before that following closely and trying to overtake. Perez just started to drive away from Ham as well as Max, the gap was opening up. 3rd was Ham maximum.
@@CPez I'm not a perez fan but he definitely had the pace and was maintaning the gap at the moment when there were 5 laps left (yes im literally watching the replay on F1TV right now)
Wow 🤩 I love this. What a great inside into F1. Data doesn’t lie, Max is so far ahead of everyone nowadays. Let’s hope he will have a competitive car next season than it’s going to be fun.
Lewis only has a 5 winstreak, never won a championship after the introduction of the cost cap and got blasted away this year by Russell whos concidered noob. Are we connecting the dots here? Lewis is overrated
@@Dante-w8f 2008 was a good / nice year but the advantage differences of Ferrari vs McLaren wasn't overwhelming at ALL. Massa suffered an engine failure in Hungary while leading, costing him a sure win. Massa's spin in Malaysia and pit lane mistakes, the infamous "fuel hose incident" in Singapore, cost valuable points. Räikkönen's form dropped in the second half of the season, limiting Ferrari's ability to score consistently. McLaren generally made fewer strategic mistakes and had a more reliable car, allowing Hamilton to capitalize when Ferrari made dumb errors. In the last race Lewis Hamilton's team's strategy was crucial, the timing of the rain and Timo Glock's who had gambled on staying out on dry tyres that tipped the scales in Hamilton's favor with HUGE luck... McLaren's decisions, especially the tyre changes were critical in keeping him in contention. So..Lewis had huge luck due to others misfortune in 2008 not because his faster than all others in a less car, like Max, Senna, Schumi did. Partly true, although 2018 the Mercedes W09 was one of the fastest cars on the grid, but not always fastest across all tracks, that is true. But not as near what is believed if you look at stats. Ferrari's car development seemed to stagnate after the mid-season break, allowing Mercedes to regain their dominance again. Over the course of the season, the Mercedes W09 was the most consistent and had the upper hand on a majority of circuits, particularly after the summer break. RedBull did outpace them occasionally. But Merc was still the most dominant car that season
very interesting stats. thanks for the info! but it is just unreal that max is doing now, that it is even comparable to fangio and clark, ascari, while it is now so much more difficult. there is so much more competition. it is just nuts. also can we just get max into clark his car and let him drive around zandvoort. i just like to know what laptime he would set
When you get a puncture after 40 laps on a tire that should be good for 15, does it count as bad luck? Or when you blow the gearbox for missing too many shifts? Or when you blow up the engine in the last lap after over revving too much during the whole race? Do those count as bad luck? Because those things happened a lot in the old times and there's no way for us to know if it was really bad luck or bad management of the car.
How good is Max? Maybe this isn't a statistical analysis... But those that go against him arent just beaten, they're broken. I'd say Hamilton wasn't the same after Abu Dhabi. Seems like half the grid falls under that banner, as teammates or as competition, with more to come in the future. They call it the Red Bull Meatgrinder, but it is the Max Meatgrinder. Think of the most recent news, regarding Tsunoda... Could he be the teammate to Hamilton, Norris, or LeClerc, in an identical situation? I think so. But not Verstappen.
Largely agree, particularly with the stats that backup Lewis' advantage with a dominant car for several years. It's always bewildering to me when true F1 fans can't separate seemingly obvious facts. One thing I'd argue though, is that it was probably only Schmacher or Senna (possibly Hakkinen and Prost) that could win a race in that 1992 and 1993 Bennetton-Ford. So the table, "Statistics in Seasons with a Car capable of winning races but not championships" would be more accurate if caveated with, "by an average F1 driver of that season". A fuller picture could also then be made with a fourth table, "Statistics in Season with a Car NOT capable of winning races by an average F1 driver of that season". This fourth table would highlight the best drivers.
Thanks man! And yes, that category would be fun, but what do I award? Podiums wouldn’t be enough, as each driver would have like 3 or 6 podiums over 50 races so we’re talking 2% vs. 5% and such, so I’d have to have a data award for 6th place or something. But there’s no doubt Senna and Max and Schumacher would shine here. There wouldn’t be almost Any data for Hamilton or Clark or Fangio or Ascari though.
@@CPez Yes, some great work you've done there. It would take a lot of work, but I suppose what you could do is try to quantify how much better those selected drivers are than their teammates. Each of their teammates would also be compared to each teammate they've ever had. You could use metrics like, fastest laps and race position per GP. Ultimately, you would end up with an indicative multiplier for each driver. Then for each season, you'd get an indication of where the "average" driver of that season was. Of course, to keep it simple and to keep data analysis practical, it wouldn't be perfect as there'd be gaps to account and make assumptions for, like unforced mechanical failures, team orders, politics, etc..
You can manipulate statistics do prove anything you want, in sports or any other subject. It's why the eye test and stats have fueled 24/7 sports talk TV and radio. But your videos are undeniably the best on F1...no stats needed :)
One thing we will never know is of course how any of the all time greats would have faired in todays highly developed f1. Everyone now has great race simulation software, each car is pretty good, few teams are a mess... That might make for a easier life compared to the troubles and challenges from the past but... The competition is no joke these days.. i think you need to more versatile and more perfect to be outstanding these days... I think a few weekends of brilliance used to be enough.. these days it's about performing in 23 weekends, about understanding what is happening, understanding the data, adepting the car or the race craft... Maybe i am wrong but i think a championship now is actually more difficult than it was back then.
It could be yes, which few people say. Back then, if you found something as a driver on the track, or a tan found something with the car, you’d have a Massive advantage. Today, everyone will find out what you’re doing weather in braking points or on the car in 2 minutes. You have to be superior every second of every race.
He was hired to TR to let him adapt to F1. He was promoted to F1 and by a bit of luck (Rosberg Hamilton collision) was to drive for P1 Barcelona 2016. Now he had the people behind him to show what he with a quality team can achieve. A driver like Verstappen gets everybody in focus and make achievements like this possible. In the early days it was more (not only) luck to have a car that performed with a driver that could handle it. These days it is so close it in my opinion is even more impressive to have a streek of four titles than ever before.
@Michel-r6m lmao a driver that's a reckless petulant child? You seem to have forgotten all the toxicity that's come from RB, Max, Marko, and Horner... FFS
@trance9158 get out of here , every comment you're hating on verstappen like a petulant child, you're the one bringing all the toxicity you hypocrite 😮
@@trance9158 Ever looked up Lauda/Senna, Senna/Prost, Schumacher/the world and Hunt vs himself?. As for teams you can look up Ferrari/Mercedes on how "mature" behaved in the 2010's, and there this guy with earrings...what a benchmark! Lotus...Colin Chapman did not care for drivers to be killed as long the brand was running and winning...
So, Max is one of the greatest. Michael took 3 titles without a dominant car (if not the broken leg he would get the 1999 also and if not totally unlucky in the last race (Interlagos) he would get very close to get another in 1998 & 2006). LH is great but not so much. Prost and Senna were both great ones. Clark might be the best ever indeed.
I checked Cory's accordion music and I was not disappointed, I never knew I loved accordion. Hanging around Helmut Marko's house with Max playing accordion while Jos and Christian Horner are polka dancing is an image a can not get out of my head. What a fascinating character.
@@shro8605 He hasnt been beaten on speed, perhaps on points yes, but that is a comparison for donkeys and fanboys.. Its actually Sainz who was his main competitor not Daniel... Sainz was the closest to Max 0.06 slower than max. Faster Qualify Sainz vs verstappen 0.06% Ricciardo vs verstappen 0.11% Gasly vs verstappen 0.45% Albon vs verstappen 0.62% Perez vs verstappen 0.46% Faster Race wins Sainz vs verstappen 54.5% Ricciardo vs verstappen 60.6% Gasly vs verstappen 90% Albon vs verstappen 88.9%
By far the best video on the “goat” discussion I have ever seen. However you should discount past performances from e.g. Clark. The constant pressure and and frequency of races puts current drivers, and especially Max’ incredible streak, in a whole different perspective. Also, the field is much more competitive nowadays. Anyhow, great video. It is clear that Max is the best of all time. Performing at 100% without making mistakes for such a long time, under such high pressure, is something others can only dream of.
Have only listened to tidbits of this podcast. That out of the way I wanna ask if the stats took into account what teammates all the greats drove against. Some had strong teammates that took stats away from them while others didn't.
yeah... rosberg, alonso, russel, bottas vs webber vs perez. Makes a big difference if you have a teammate taking wins off you. Is that because e.g. Hamilton and Vettel weren't good enough to dominate, or is it because Perez isn't good enough to challange?
@@kj48tigerthe W12 was actually 0.053s per lap faster on average over the season. Newey wants to take some credit for the WDC win that year, and rightfully so. But Max did win in inferior machinery (albeit not inferior by much).
How about pole to win conversion%? Max has an 80% rate, higher than anybody else. Only Prost in his McLaren days equals that, but it’s 8 wins from 10 poles. Max is 32 wins from 40 poles
Well Pole to win doesn’t tell me anything really. And I Love Max, and that stat would help him, sure. But going 3rd to Win is more impressive than Pole to Win anyway.
Fascinating theoty, amazing statistics and probably the best way to determine the GOAT. Would love to see the stats if the drivers entire F1 career was considered cause anyone whose chosen GOAT isnt the winner here, will raise that as an objection. But I love this. Thanks Peter for putting this on.
An totally moot discussion. Red Bull was never going to repeat the mistake of putting a non-Junior driver in the top team, they have heard the anger of the drivers in their jr. program for not getting the chances to promote. And also Red Bull was never knowingly going for a driver staying for 1 year at most knowing Honda will transfer him to Aston Martin in 2026 as it is a Honda driver not a Red Bull driver.
@@endthisnonsense7202 How good is Lawson? His career is not that convincing looking at his upcoming, would be nice to have Peter dissect it, not the political cheese, we know that, but the drivers driving skills from a technical perspective, Peter should be able to do it rather then repeat Max ramble.
@@mediascapes2011 I agree currently Tsunoda is better. Lawson has more potential though. And Red Bull was not going for a non-Red Bull jr. again. So it's a moot discussion.
I think a driver’s performance relative to his teammate should be a factor: ie some teams had a clear #1 driver and some were closely matched. This factor will definitely affect statistics.
Sure, it could be a factor, but the question is how do you interpreted the comparison. Because if two drivers are close to each other in performance, you could argue driver A has a better teammate, or you could argue that driver A is just not so good as it seems.
Should also add the data from the second driver/car to really see how dominant the car was imho. Also add rain races which is another driving quality level. Would be interesting to see what the results would be when this would be also added.
What a lovely video for the off-season. Cory, its the assumptions you make, to be fair, you acknowledge this, and you are clever enough to troll Windsor with Jim Clark. Verstappen is incredible, but Fangio is and remains the Maestro, never forget that JMF did not get to F1 until he was 36 years old, has the highest all-time win percentage, and, drove for four different manufacturers; wish to say Fangio jumped to the best car, yes, of course, and why, because Fangio was the undisputed best driver and every team wanted him. Eye test? 1957 German GP at Nurburgring- from many minutes down to victory lap record after lap record. Max may be that good, Jim Clark was close, Nigel and Ayrton especially on their day were amazing, but Juan Manual Fangio the humble gentleman from Balcarce is still the best anyone has ever seen.
Thanks John, and yes, 1957 Germany I talk about (might make the 2nd video). Just astounding stuff by Fangio, And yes! He was old when F1 started and he Still has those stats!
I.m watching Senna on Netflix. He was my favorite driver back then.. My first race was with my Dad at the Nurburgring in 1976 as a five year old when Lauda crashed. Not old enough to understand what happened. My Dad was in tears,he was a big Lauda fan. In 1994 we were at Imola together when Senna crashed.I was devistated. Back then Senna was the villain,he was victim of the relentlous actions from Balestre,at that time the Sulayem from the FIA. I see so much similarities with Max now. Max has the same qualities Senna had. Straight forward,no nonsense. Max is the villain now and i love it. He is in another league,his own league,like Senna was. And they share the same brilliance,devotion and honesty. Pure racers and for me Max is the GOAT. As long as Max is driving in F1 nobody will beat him.Never.
TLDR; Greats are in that order Clark > Verstappen > Ascari > Fangio > Schumacher > Vettel > Senna > Hamilton. When it comes to winning with having dominant car or just a decent car Max is the best. Vettel and Lewis are at the opposite end.
After giving it some thought I don't believe this is a valid method of analysis for entire seasons. Luck averages out over the long run. Generally the saying "You win some, you lose some" holds true in racing. You could certainly say that individual events beyind human comprehension as to appear random play a part in individual races but not over a season.
Yes, but I account for Everyone in Al races. There are races where Leclerc Should have won but his car shut down, so there are Wins for Max that were taken away.
11:15 Yes but we’re not catering for the fact Max has never had a WDC teammate or a competitive teammate in that Period of time. Lewis has multiple times over. Even now he had an opportunity to have Carlos in the Second seat which would’ve guaranteed a constructors title win
Agreed. In my opinion, it's the final hurdle to GOAT. That's why redbulls choice for drivers has been disappointing. I think Max is faster than Carlos, yet RB still didn't want him in the car, just shows you how coddled Max is. Easy to look like a genius in the fastest car and a weak teamate.
@@mariobgrant because of the nature of how RBR works (they're working based on the talent they nurtured in their academy for a very long time. Checo is an exception due to they not having any other talent ready to fill the seat at that time). So I won't blame Max for having weak teammate. Even Max himself on his debut isn't that special either, just a talented but very crash prone kid
@@hectornecromancer5308 Yuki and Sainz are from the redbull junior program, they have vast experience, doesnt make sense....I believe that Max doesn't care who his teamates are but Jos Verstappen does. Regardless of the reasons, we don't know how good Max really is because he's had weak teamates.
@@mariobgrant not that he can do anything about it. Especially knowing what RedBull currently had in their disposal Even if they chose Yuki, for example, who knows how long he'll stay, or how he'll perform
I'm surprised that in man's reasoning Senna actually gains a DWC. I thought he would loose a championship to Prost. And discussions about "who's the greatest?" are always difficult. I remember Senna in the JPS Lotus driving in front of the Williams at a position he shouldn't be in if he was a regular F1 driver or Senna in the Camel Lotus keeping Mansell, Piquet, Prost, behind him making himself as wide as Gandalf on the bridge at the mines of Moria. Let's just enjoy our memories of the past icons while we make new memories with the present generation, spearheaded bij Max.
Lose? I see no way in which Senna isn’t more impressive than Prost. Senna 1988 is arguably the greatest example. If you have an 8 hour race, sure, go Prost. If you want an assassin in shorter races like F1, it’s Senna all day.
@@CPez Dear C, you have not noticed that I wrote nothing negative about Senna's qualities? Au contraire... And as many of us older F1 fans know Alain Prost was screwed over twice by the points system in operation those years. Once in Lauda's advantage and later in Senna's advantage. If Prost would have received points in what we (later) consider normal manner then Senna would have lost one titel to Prost.
@@xedor2003 But when I do my stats, I go by a 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 system. Not the crappy system they used in those years (where Yes, Prost fans know he was screwed on it). But when you take into account luck, Senna won Both 88 and 89 Anyway.
Thank you. As an individual. I'm not mad about him. At all. Although. For what he does. Is masterly perfection. A gut feeling automoten. On auto pilot. Presently. In his stride. Whipping the smoke out of most. Will be interesting to how SLH is going to perform in an un-sabotaged Ferrari!
but rosberg is validated as a high tier driver by doing great against hamilton. by that logic Gasly couldve been 'a rosberg' ..but max just crushed him. I think its very likely max wouldve crushed rosberg too in that prime merc. The point is, you're using Rosberg's performance to validate Lewis, but in reality, Rosberg's own validation comes from competing against Lewis. The logic is flawed, its like saying a runner's speed is proven by how well they race against a champion, but then using the runner's ability to validate the champion’s skill. in a two man race (dominant cars) this is circular reasoning since the runner’s worth is only highlighted by the champion, but you’re using the runner to prove the champion's greatness.
@@dco1019 -No, Rosberg was already considered a very good driver BEFORE Hamilton joined Merc....in fact, Rosberg was tipped to beat Hamilton when he first joined. Rosberg's validation comes mainly from demolishing Schumacher 3-0
@@shro8605 Schumacher was a washed up senior who quit racing for years. Also gasly was considered a very good driver before he joined RBR. Thats what im saying Gasly couldve been 'a rosberg'
No disrespect intended, but for me, this is a classic example of how little Americans understand the sport of F1. To mention Bahrain 2021...Hamilton exceeded track limits 29x because it was agreed in the pre-race notes that turn 4 would not be policed in regards to setting a lap time, so why is Corey saying Verstappen should have won that race? Also, Cory has given zero consideration into the quality of teammates. Verstappen doesn't have teammates....his teammates are not allowed to challenge him and there to support him. Even the sister RB team often support Verstappen.
Also doesn't take into consideration that Jim Clark and other drivers up until the late 1970s raced all year long if you count non-championship events, significantly up until the mid-late 1960s official Grand Prix that counted towards the championship outgrew non-champ events. Not specific enough
Cory Here: 1. Because to go into teammate quality, you would be venturing into a level of Subjectivism no one wants to go near. Now we’re debating Rubens vs. Rosberg, Francis Cavert vs. Perez, Peter Collins vs. Mark Webber. I mean, that’s ridiculous since they didn’t accomplish enough to have detailed data, and were at different levels in different seasons. And even if you get through that, it would take even more factors of subjectivity. It’s better to just use it as an afterthought when you have 2 drivers Really cost to reach other to maybe clinch the argument. 2. In Bahrain 2021, the Point, is that Hamilton gained about 0.7-1 second in that race by doing that, MEANING Max would have caught him earlier and would have surely had time to get him, Plus, for god’s sake, can F1 REWARD the great pass?? This is like the NFL killing Great catches because the guys toe Kiiind of touched the white. And forget that I’m American which single gives me negative points (I have Never watched the Netflix show once fyi), I’ve watched F1 since I was 2, and know Many in F1.
@@CPez -This is a load of nonsense. Teammate quality is a massive part in how well a driver performs. Senna had Prost, Prost had Senna, Hamilton had WDCs Alonso, Button and Nico Rosberg who was able to demolish Michael Schumacher 3-0. Verstappen has had inexperienced near rookies and mid tier drivers like Perez as teammates. Next year, Verstappen is having yet another rookie teammate Lawson who has been told he is only there to support Max. Put Max against a better calibre teammate and he doesn't look like the supposed god you are trying to portray him as. As for Bahrain 2021 if Max didn't have the intelligence and nouse to take advantage of exceeding track limits as was allowed by the pre race notes, then that's his problem. So no, Max should NOT be given Bahrain 2021
Very interesting. One remark, however. When you compare these "runs" it is clearly much harder to keep up a winning percentage of 72% over 73 races than to keep up such a percentage over 26 races. Stated differently: I am quite sure that if you search in that run of Max you will be able to find "partial-runs" of about 26 six races where the percentage was even higher... (says my intuition as somebody who has had quite a lot to do with statistics in my job)
I love how invested people are in these debates. Writing multiple paragraphs defending someone who doesn’t know they exist like their life depends on it… Truly hilarious.
Imagine talking down to people while having „he/him“ in your bio, don‘t you have bigger problems to worry about than people being passionate about a sport they follow?
Me thinks thou dost protest too much. I follow the sport, have watched nearly every quali and race every week available to watch in my locality for going on 15 years. I just don’t have a parasocial relationship with the drivers such that my own self worth is wrapped up in how others perceive a car driver.
@@DustySideswho said that anyone has their self worth tied to a driver? Do people just disagree or argue when something their self worth is tied to is involved?
You can tell by the level of personal attacks, hyperbole, and desperation of people’s posts that it is indeed personal. Like, going to someone’s profile and trying to level completely unrelated culture war attacks says someone is taking it very personally.
@@DustySides you come in here and your first comment ever on the channel is talking down to people - you didn‘t expect being talked down to yourself, did you?
Look, Max is obviouly a talented F1 driver but I have the same problem with Max that had with Senna and Michael Schumacher, they weren't the cleanest of drivers. Max loses his head when things are not going his way. He has a problem with the red mist. Senna and Schumacher were blatent in that they would try and take another driver out if it meant they could stop that driver from winning. A great driver is not only rated on wins, it's how they go about it.
That’s a very Leftist way of looking at things. To me the Assassin should be rewarded. This isn’t Tennis; this is motor acing. But look, of Course the fact that Schumacher tried to win 2 titles by crashing into his opponent Hurts his GOAT chances.
I would agree if it wasn't F1. The cleanest wins are due to superior material, while the rough races are all about skill and mentality. "This guy was so amazing by never touching anyone and driving 30 seconds ahead of the rest" ... yeah, no shit.
@@NotAfraidToQuestionThingsHmm, Senna deliberately taking Prost out at Suzuka. Schumacher sqeezing Barrichello to the pitlane wall on the main straight in Hungary. Schumacher deliberately parking his car on the track in Monaco to prevent another driver getting pole position. Verstappen taking himself and Hamilton completely off the track on turn4 to prevent an overtake. Schumacher tried to take Jacques Villeneuve, out in the European 97 GP.
There is a very important factor that´s missing! The relative speed differences between cars, the last years we had most of the qualifying sessions with the firs ten in one second. This used to be two to three seconds in the Mercedes dominant era, In the McLaren Senna era there was about a second between pole and third on the grid. In the Ascari era there was about 6 seconds between the first ten on the grid. And when the weather "equalizes" the car performance, Max pulls out a from 17th to first in the rain and finished 16 seconds ahead of anyone.
If you factor this in then Max´s statistics are even more impressive, in my opinion he´s on top of all. I´m following F1 for about 50 years now.
most impressive stat to me is that he beats ascari race win % record in a season, while driving almost 3 times as many races, completely unreal stat.
quali pace is close but race pace isnt... RedBull is still seconds faster than a Williams on race day. Plus there is no dirty air these days…
@@hanstubben no... You just proved how dominant the car is .. or was.
Very good point and I bet that stat will easy to calculate since all data is available.
Quality pace is far less relevant now though. Not sure this is a great metric.
My grandfather is 84 years old he watches F1 since young age and he works in motorsports for long time in Portugal.
He always said to me "the best F1 drivers ever are Jim Clark, Senna and Verstappen" and he was talking about Max since 2014, Max was not even in F1 and he was telling me this boy is going to be one of the best ever in F1!
Made up story 😂
Niki Lauda called Max "best talent this century" . Coming from Niki who had that rare killer instinct, that's a great endorsement.
Well, your grandfather knew his stuff.
Lauda and Marko also acknowledged Max very soon
Your father is a connosieur
After watching Brazil 2016 I spent two whole weeks telling my friends that dutch 18 year old was going to be one of the best in history. We will miss drivers like him when he retires
Apparently you didn't see SLH FUJI 2007!
@@southerncomfort1339 they both can be one of the best , its not either or
@@southerncomfort1339 cringe
I told my friends when I heard that Jos had become father to a son Max. It was in the stars, and it wasn't even a wild guess or anything.
Which person IN THE WORLD had a naturally faster mom who proved it on track in FIA sanctioned high level racing? Oh and his dad raced F1 and wins Rally 2 events at 50+.
@southerncomfort1339 the fact that you call him sir removes your opinion from the discussion
I’m watching F1 since the early eighties. As a race fan, not as a fanboy. For me Verstappen is the best pure racer I have ever seen.
Same here, following since 1984.
I don't go back quite that far, but probably mid 90s (I was 10), I was recording races on VHS and watching them after church. Max is extremely special and it was obvious very early on (even when I didn't like him as a young, fairly reckless guy).
@@PeterPost-w8m 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I do agree. You could see this from the very 1st FP he did.
@evonne_o hold your horses here, can max drive wheel to wheel fairly?
Before Max step in the formula 1, wolff and horner want him because they saw his talent.
Max is the only driver on the grid that stop the lewis / Mercedes dominance. Without a Mercedes.
Max is faster then lewis.
Max is faster by far.. and Lewis knows that as well, so does the bias British Sky...
I 100% agree max is faster
But it’s also not fair
Because max hasn’t raced Lewis in the era of cars that suited Lewis!
This era suits max’s driving style
Lewis seems to really struggle with this era as well!
Anywho I agree max is faster by far
@@Milkywayboynot really, Max did pretty well in the merc era, his engine wasnt just as powerful and reliable as the mercedes engine. He fought everyone during that era, fought with Nico/Seb/Kimi multiple time where he didnt belong. He was just a lil handicapped because the other had a slightly better car
@@MilkywayboyMax doesnt have a driving style, he adapts. He would be successful in any era. There cannot be any doubts about that.
@@Milkywayboy2021 is still Lewis's era, 2021 is not a ground effect car.
Eddie Jordan had both Senna and Michael and says Max is better than both of them. I trust Eddie's opinion
I would believe him if he had had those two while being someone else than Eddie Jordan. Haha
Eddie is a clown.
@@B-kl8vj but a competent clown
Lol. That is something Eddie would say. Max is not as good Senna. Senna could make almost any car fast. Max has had a top tier car almost his entire career (same as many 'top" drivers). Then there is Senna's grit. Could max do what Senna did in Brazil, driving an F1 car with 1.5 arms practically willed on by God? No.
@@paskowitz though Brazil this year was a bit like Donington with Senna in the rain…
When you watch Brazil 2024, when power is not an advantage and you see all the other great drivers from young talents to Alonso not be able to keep in on the track and Max is hitting fastest lap after fastest lap, it's clear he is operating a step above in terms of talent, journalist are scared to offend, they don't give their opinions on who is the best anymore, they always accept excuses blah blah.
Reality is that Max is the best driver of this generation by a long shot
Tell us you're a biased crashstappen clanboy without telling us you're a crashstappen clanboy.
Full of shit... Compare his first 3 years in F1... Total disaster and a cluster fuck. Without help from masi and the fia and a car that was illegal he's nothing but backfield material...
@@trance9158 tell me you‘re a biased brit without telling me you‘re a biased brit 😁
Watching Max win is even better, when you remind yourself of how many british people are losing their love for the sport for this exact reason lmfao
Speaking of excuses.... Sounds like you're self projecting there Bubba J. Maybe you should stick to DTS.
@@trance9158 What about Brazil 2024 (or even Brazil 2016) was not great?
The RB20 was no longer the fastest car, rain has been Max's strong point as well, on top of his recovery, also set a record of most amount of fastest laps in a row, while others had trouble keeping it on track. (EDIT: actually, i couldn't verify that specific record claim, but there's a lot of other interesting records to his name though, you might want to check them out.)
I mean, where's the faults?
Sure, i'm a Dutch Max "fanboy", but this is like trying to mock Michael Jordan for having a flawless match, the guy is just at the top of his game and of the sport.
Why not engage with the argument, instead of resorting to ad nauseam.
Dear Peter, it is quite brave that you dare to post this as a Brittish F1-expert in these divisive times. That makes you stand out for a lot of F1-loving people that watch the sport for over 40 years (like me). Keep up the good work!
Maybe try to get out of your bubble of hate and just enjoy the sport.
Nobody cares about how the bad men at Sky hurt your feefies.
What a nice thing to say 🙄@@StormcastMarine
youre living with your head in the clouds
most British F1 journalists give Max fair credit for his achievements. Of course they will also criticise bad driving standards on the occasions we see it. They prob more effusive praising Max than they were with Lewis who has never really had the credit he deserved from the British press
Peter is Australian
Data does not lie... But the biased fans will always find excuses. For me Max is the greatest and his prime still has to begin... In time he will be the undisputed goat. The numbers will tell...
If he races long enough and Redbull gives him a competetive car then yes it'll be a wash I think. Hes only 27
I wonder what a dedicated AI stat model could come up with? ...given all available data. I dont think the list would change in order. Max is a proven all time great, one of the best of the very best
Agreed, Max is the GOAT at sim racing
The car has to be near enough to compete. Lewis had a great car in 10 seasons.
Max will drive other categories (prototypes) later in his career and then the real comparisons can begin. Anyone that watches the man drive in iRacing will see the level of his skill is beyond belief. He is a true racer through and through and is only gaining experience as time goes by
He's said to be top 3 in iRacing if he manages to put the hours in. I have no doubt Max is the fastest driver that ever lived
It's very interesting to look at it more neutrally through statistics. However I still think looking at the great equaliser eg rain shows who the best drivers are and in my mind Senna and Verstappen are absolutely a cut above everyone else... Imagine both of them on the same track in the wet...
Clarke was just as dominant in the wet. Schumacher also
@@deerfootnz Schumacher wasn't looking nearly as good let alone dominant duing his first years, when Senna was still there.
He only looked dominant next to such ""champions" as Hill, Villeneuve and Hakkinnen, of which even such poor driver as Hill was arguably the best in wet.
Not saying Michael wasn;t great in wet, but I personally think Senna and Max were better.
@Stantube1000 not sure I agree with that. I watched Senna race against Brundle in F3 when I was at uni. I watched Schumi in the Benneton and later on. Both were dominant. Both had an unfortunate tendency to invite collisions when competing for corners which I am sure Schumacher got from Senna. Verstappen possibly does this due to his father's influence. The rules are not clear enough, not enforced in any consistent manner and in the end I have just given up watching. It's clear Verstappen is extremely talented. I will never bother watching him because he bahaves so appallingly badly, and now the FIA is returning to the ethos of Jean Marie Balestre. They can all go and f*** themselves, I am going sailing.
What a quality video, the host, the guest, the content, the music...everything is lit
There you have it, what I thought all along. Lewis is very good but not outstanding. You never got this wowing feeling like with max in Brazil '24 for instance. I mean, Rosberg has beaten him and this year Russel. Lewis is a great driver for sure, but never mention him as probably the goat again. Stats only don't count, the fans have to be unanimous and they're just not, maybe only in Britain ....
Max has driven againt anyone good since Ricciardo
It’s good to see there are also other people who see that
@@foshizzlemb you're ignorant.
Bro talk about yourself. Hamilton has more wowing moments than Verstappen has races. Max lost to ricciardo twice btw since we are gonna talk about teammates. (the only decent teammate he ever had)
@@kj48tiger😂😂
So true regarding 2021. All the British DTS watchers love crying about 2021 but the stats don’t lie. Max dominated Lewis
@@ctopczewski but would have lost if it wasn't for masi cheating
@@trance9158 So I assume you are also complaining constantly about the illegal tire testing Merc did before they went on their dominant streak, no even talking about them starting engine development earlier and strongarming the FIA into hybrids (thank them for no V10s). Am I right? You complain about that too, right? Or do you just act like an 8 year old whose favourite driver lost because he wasnt good enough?
@@trance9158 You'r level of Verstappen hate is seriously toxic, why don't you accept reality, may be a shrink could help ?
@@trance9158 Human error was the ruling; spouting unfounded nonsense won't change things. You will never convince yourself of this.
He dominated so much that he needed to drive like a kamikazi and benefit from the greatest robbery in history to win it. lol
and max is only 27...........hopefully much more to come
Fangio never started a grand prix until he was almost 37 years old.
@@johnhill7058 In a completely different era.
Early retirement
@ yea the baby thing worries me a bit but I did get to see him race every race of his career. He is the goat in my eyes
Don't hold your breath
🤧 Here's a tissue for the Max haters. Merry Xmas everyone 🎄 Let 25 be as good as 24.
@@mikeewhite you're going to be crying next season and trying to make excuses for your reckless petulant child.
@@mikeewhite Ha. I started out disliking Max like many did with Seb but I love him now. But I think he may won his last championship now.
@@Taylor___ oh ye of little faith...
@@arjenkersing Yeahhh, well, Ferrari, McLaren up there now, Lawson as a team mate which won’t help and then the regs change and RB haven’t got the power unit
How sad. Hope your life become fuller and less empty in 2025.
Peter, I’m first and foremost a F1 fan, since May 1979… I’m a LH44, stood in front of Michael, you name it. You know when I knew Max is the next Senna? 21 in Barcelona, turn 2 in the opening lap, and he passes LH on the outside, a move which is almost impossible…. Max is a true champion, because he’s a fighter. LH is and always will be my champion, because he’s shown it time and again, much like Prost did, win, when everybody had counted him out? Keep rocking
It was turn 1 that max dived into Lewis. It was his classic yield or we crash type move. Lewis stop letting that fly. Senna is still way above max atm.
@@Daris_13lol even after the statistics you keep it up? Man your stubbornness deserves a statue of its own!
@@Daris_13 You'll probably yap the same even after 10 years when Max has like 3 more championships
@@Daris_13delusional british DTS-FANGIRL SPOTTED
Max vs Senna for finesse. Max vs Schumacher for mental toughness. Max vs Prost for turn-in take-outs and he still beats them all.
We don't know how good Max is because he never has to worry about internal competition. The whole team is built around him and the 2nd RB driver is there merely to support him. Liam Lawson has been told to not challenge Max. Why can't Max test himself against a top tier teammate? All his teammates since Ricciardo have been rookies or mid-tier
Max is exceptional, Schumacher and Prost are very good, and excel at the politics of the sport, but the very best pure driver will always be the Gentleman from Balcarce, Juan Manuel Fangio.
@@Dante-w8f
Max beat the 'internal competition' in the eyes of the RB management a long time before he became the #1 driver. They - Horner and Marko - knew what they got under contract: a future race- and championship-winner. And so did Toto, but RB got him first.
Then came Barcelona 2016, where youngest F1 driver - Max - won his debut race in the RedBull; even Niki Lauda told the world Max was the talent of the century.
Naturally the team try to give their future champion a fast as possible car, to maximize his chances...
It's clever to have a #2 driver in the team, who actually is and behaves like a #2. Two equal rivaling drivers in one team is asking for internal problems: i.e. Senna/Prost, Rosberg/Hamilton, Leclerc/Sainz, Norris/Piastri..
@@Dante-w8f ”why can’t max test himself against a top tier teammate” Well because that’s not up to him is it? He’s always said that he doesn’t care who his teammate is, and at the end of the day it’s the Red Bull management that makes that call. Ive never understood why people take issue with drivers over factors they have little to no control over, like driver pairings.
That being said, I hope to see the day where we do see a proper contender to max in the red bull. Should make for a good show, and hopefully it will finally put all criticism to rest if/when max beats them
@@Dante-w8fMax has been pushing for RedBull to sign Norris. Why? Because he thinks highly of Norris as a person and racer. He is not scared of anyone but with some the chemistry would be much too volatile to win, it would only be mutual destruction. And he doesn't want that, rightly so tbf
The numbers from the 2021 champions shows the truth: Max was the Champion by distance
@@atanasio13ltv no he was handed the WDC by masi.. a fact you'll never change and there will be an asterisk by that as well
@@trance9158buddy, you’re commenting on every pro max comment. Get a life.
@nodekapunk go play in the road if it hurts your delicate feelings there precious.
He was the driver of the season @trance9158 in an inferior car riddled with bad luck and poor reliability while lewis got the opposite and still held on. The baby jesus made sure he got that title and the next 9. Now try different glu mate she's not working for ye. Buhhhhhhhhhh
In a slower car and those of us who watched the season saw Lewis gain advantage without giving position back 3 races, pit maneuver Max at Silverstone for a 10 second penalty, rear end Max because he didn't want to cross the drs line with Max being penalized (for Lewis running into him), Bottas taking out the field behind Lewis. The season should have been decided in Max's favour prior to Abudabi.
These statistics are Simply Lovely!!!
Clark was for me the best, being a 50 year old F1 fan, having watched all the races where there is some images available. You can't compare generations but in these times consistency is king and Max is the most consistent one ever, being able to eek out a lead being 0,2 secs faster every lap...
I'd love to see stats for races under heavy rain where the car doesn't matter much, it's the driver's ability that shines.
True but it's a very specific kind of driving ability. Fans tend to rate ace wet drivers really highly but driving tops in the wet doesnt necessarily mean you're tops overall. Most races are dry races, so you probably need to consider that first, though your point is well taken.
Id say that it does tend to be the case that the best drivers drive wrll in the wet bc they drive well in ALL conditions. Its not this causal relationship where driving well in the wet makes you good. Youre good, ergo you drive well in all conditions.
But I agree that isolating wet races is a solid metric for sure. Definitely a fun latitude to place drivers on.
@@MM-qm9ld all the very best were simultaneously the very best in the rain.
fangio, clark, senna, schumacher....wet weather driver takes the most out of every driver and show deficit in technique, confidence and ultimately skill. so, imaginary drivers that would be the very best at their timing driving in wet but would be nothing special in dry never existed. the overall best were always simultaneously the best in wet.
no driver that wasn't capable to outshine the rest at his time in the wet could be considered amongst the best of all times.
Real comparisons remain impossible. Not even putting them all in the same car on the same track at the same time and in their prime would give a totally correct outcome. But it still is an interresting discussion. Thanks!
Racing God JIM CLARK - Unmatched Maestro. By far the Greatest Driver Ever - No doubt. He is and was "The Best of the Best" (Fangio, Senna, Prost, Stewart and countless others about Clark). No other driver in history until today was so superior as Clark - No other driver as so much "Grand Slam" - Pole/Win/Fastest Lap/Leading every lap of the race - like him. And all that from just 72 starts... !
This man is the Olymp of driving - the Michelangelo of racing - a dynamic art at the highest level. So smooth, so precise, so fast....simply out of this world. One, who won in Spa by 5 minutes (!) in monsoon rain with only one hand at the wheel (!) because of gearbox trouble...One, who takes back a complete lap (!) in Monza and back into the lead... One, who took pole on the original 22,8 km Nürburgring track by 9 (!) seconds and more....One who won Indy by 2 whole (!) laps...
In 1965 he had the most succesful year of any driver in the history of the sport: He won the F1 World Championship, the Tasman Series with F1 cars, the Indy 500, the British and French F2 Championship, the British Touring car Championship, totally over 50 (!) victories in one season !!!! For eternity and by lightyears unmatched in the sport. That`s just some examples of his mesmeric unique genius...
Defining actual GOAT settings based on "facts". Love it Peter! There is always the nuance and decisions/opportunities with an "on any given Sunday" situation. However, comparing Max and his fellow world champs (notably Lewis) through the data illustrates the importance of reality checks. Cheers!
Hamilton vs Max is not even a debate anymore... it's Max. Max vs Senna and Schumi...still Max.
I would like to see them in the same car 🤨
Finally! Thank you so much for this video. I hope this will finally help put an end to the discussion about Max's abilities. Instead of criticizing, let's enjoy his talent. What we're witnessing right now is truly unique. The data speaks for itself. Once again, let's enjoy it!
How do we know how good Max is when his teammates are so subpar/inexperienced & hired to support rather than challenge him?
@@Dante-w8f Well, if you want to call Perez, Sainz, Ricciardo, and Albon bad drivers, you have a point. I don''t think they are. But he outperformed them all. And then again,
look at the data
@@Dante-w8fyou can‘t see Max‘ greatness, because you‘re looking for arguments against it brother. If Max had driven against a Sainz and beaten him in comparable fashion to how he outperformed every other teammate, you‘d probably be in denial and claim that RB is simply a one man team, sabotaging Sainz.
Just enjoy witnessing greatness live, I am literally thankful for getting to watch this dude drive live, and not having to just hear about it like with Clark or Senna, because I wasn‘t even born back then.
@@silversub - Sainz & Ricciardo outqualified and beat Max. While Albon was a rookie when he was partnered with Max.
But this video isn’t about that time. Pay attention to the years as well @Dante-w8f
Interlagos 2016 and Interlagos 2024 in the wet. No one comes close to Max in an inferior car in the wet. He is a rain God.
Agree 2024 class of his own. But in 2016 he was quicker than everyone except Lewis. (From memory)
@deanlawrence871 - 2016 was the 3rd year of the turbo-hybrid formula and Mercedes dominance. Rosberg won the WDC title in 2016 by 5pts over Hamilton whom had the only DNF from Mercedes in Malaysia. Ricciardo came in 3rd...then Vettel in 4th. Max came in 5th place in seasonal points for 2016.
Tough to compare him with Senna, because Senna was head and shoulders above the rest in the wet as well, arguably by even bigger extent, but average level of drivers was far lower at Sennas time than it is now on the modern F1 grid. the most talented and best prepared ever.
@@deanlawrence871 he was potentially quicker than Lewis but not quick enough to overtake on track, or at least he was matching his pace.
@ yeah I think he was matching him. Who knows if both were 100% pushing all these years later. I feel like maybe Lewis did start to pull away at one stage
I love these kind of stats...the raw number just leave so much unsaid
Exactly. That’s what motivates me to do these. Thanks!
08:55 small correction needed, if Max's tyre doesn't blow, Lewis finishes 3rd behind Perez who had better pace and had the on track position
Wrong. As Much as I am Not a Hamilton fan, he was Surely going to finish ahead of Perez. Easily.
@@CPezno, he already killed his tires before that following closely and trying to overtake. Perez just started to drive away from Ham as well as Max, the gap was opening up. 3rd was Ham maximum.
@@CPez I'm not a perez fan but he definitely had the pace and was maintaning the gap at the moment when there were 5 laps left (yes im literally watching the replay on F1TV right now)
Wow 🤩 I love this. What a great inside into F1. Data doesn’t lie, Max is so far ahead of everyone nowadays. Let’s hope he will have a competitive car next season than it’s going to be fun.
There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Competent analysts can make any stats sing whatever tune they conduct.
@@johnhill7058then, what is your tune?
Lewis only has a 5 winstreak, never won a championship after the introduction of the cost cap and got blasted away this year by Russell whos concidered noob. Are we connecting the dots here? Lewis is overrated
Speaking of Hamilton, nobody has had less mechanical DNF's as a % ever. Its not even close. And when he had an average DNF rate, he lost to Rosberg
Max is the goat 2 wdc without the fastest car
You could argue 2008 & 2018 for Lewi....Ferrari arguably had the quickest car in both those years
@@Dante-w8f 2008 was a good / nice year but the advantage differences of Ferrari vs McLaren wasn't overwhelming at ALL.
Massa suffered an engine failure in Hungary while leading, costing him a sure win.
Massa's spin in Malaysia and pit lane mistakes, the infamous "fuel hose incident" in Singapore, cost valuable points.
Räikkönen's form dropped in the second half of the season, limiting Ferrari's ability to score consistently.
McLaren generally made fewer strategic mistakes and had a more reliable car, allowing Hamilton to capitalize when Ferrari made dumb errors.
In the last race Lewis Hamilton's team's strategy was crucial, the timing of the rain and Timo Glock's who had gambled on staying out on dry tyres that tipped the scales in Hamilton's favor with HUGE luck... McLaren's decisions, especially the tyre changes were critical in keeping him in contention.
So..Lewis had huge luck due to others misfortune in 2008 not because his faster than all others in a less car, like Max, Senna, Schumi did.
Partly true, although 2018 the Mercedes W09 was one of the fastest cars on the grid, but not always fastest across all tracks, that is true. But not as near what is believed if you look at stats. Ferrari's car development seemed to stagnate after the mid-season break, allowing Mercedes to regain their dominance again.
Over the course of the season, the Mercedes W09 was the most consistent and had the upper hand on a majority of circuits, particularly after the summer break. RedBull did outpace them occasionally. But Merc was still the most dominant car that season
@@bobkeul7682 Agreed! Massa was easily more worthy to take that crown back then if team mistakes were included.
The very best of all times. I was saying it even before the first title, because of the overall difference from his teammates.
Max is right on top with Fangio, Clark and Senna, but he is stilll active
max is sehr good 🍺
Woww, what a great video…this is the best way to compare the drivers from different eras!
Thanks so much Safak!! - Cory
very interesting stats. thanks for the info! but it is just unreal that max is doing now, that it is even comparable to fangio and clark, ascari, while it is now so much more difficult. there is so much more competition. it is just nuts. also can we just get max into clark his car and let him drive around zandvoort. i just like to know what laptime he would set
@@elecovanrenss1352 it's the car and all the aiding and abetting from the FIA
@@trance9158 hahaha that made me laugh! thanks! great joke upvote to you!
Not possible Zandvoort in Clarks time was a different track.
@@ramarkble101Doesn't matter, would still be insane to see what max could do in that type of car regardless of laptime comparison.
Ah Windsor F1. The only channel where I stay for the outro music.
Statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is significant and what they conceal vital.
Oh, I like that, Otto
Wow! As a long term F.1 fan, this all makes sense.
Thankyou for this different perspective, gentlemen!
Yeah, Max is the best ever 🙌🏻
When you get a puncture after 40 laps on a tire that should be good for 15, does it count as bad luck? Or when you blow the gearbox for missing too many shifts? Or when you blow up the engine in the last lap after over revving too much during the whole race? Do those count as bad luck? Because those things happened a lot in the old times and there's no way for us to know if it was really bad luck or bad management of the car.
Incredible insightful video. Love it!!
Wow, this man has some serious F1 knowledge!
How good is Max? Maybe this isn't a statistical analysis... But those that go against him arent just beaten, they're broken. I'd say Hamilton wasn't the same after Abu Dhabi. Seems like half the grid falls under that banner, as teammates or as competition, with more to come in the future. They call it the Red Bull Meatgrinder, but it is the Max Meatgrinder.
Think of the most recent news, regarding Tsunoda... Could he be the teammate to Hamilton, Norris, or LeClerc, in an identical situation? I think so. But not Verstappen.
Peter once told me he doesn’t have an outro, so let’s call it his “signature musical ending” haha Whatever we call it though, I enjoy it (-8
Great content! Bring Cory more.
Largely agree, particularly with the stats that backup Lewis' advantage with a dominant car for several years. It's always bewildering to me when true F1 fans can't separate seemingly obvious facts. One thing I'd argue though, is that it was probably only Schmacher or Senna (possibly Hakkinen and Prost) that could win a race in that 1992 and 1993 Bennetton-Ford. So the table, "Statistics in Seasons with a Car capable of winning races but not championships" would be more accurate if caveated with, "by an average F1 driver of that season". A fuller picture could also then be made with a fourth table, "Statistics in Season with a Car NOT capable of winning races by an average F1 driver of that season". This fourth table would highlight the best drivers.
Thanks man! And yes, that category would be fun, but what do I award? Podiums wouldn’t be enough, as each driver would have like 3 or 6 podiums over 50 races so we’re talking 2% vs. 5% and such, so I’d have to have a data award for 6th place or something. But there’s no doubt Senna and Max and Schumacher would shine here. There wouldn’t be almost Any data for Hamilton or Clark or Fangio or Ascari though.
@@CPez Yes, some great work you've done there. It would take a lot of work, but I suppose what you could do is try to quantify how much better those selected drivers are than their teammates. Each of their teammates would also be compared to each teammate they've ever had. You could use metrics like, fastest laps and race position per GP. Ultimately, you would end up with an indicative multiplier for each driver. Then for each season, you'd get an indication of where the "average" driver of that season was. Of course, to keep it simple and to keep data analysis practical, it wouldn't be perfect as there'd be gaps to account and make assumptions for, like unforced mechanical failures, team orders, politics, etc..
You can manipulate statistics do prove anything you want, in sports or any other subject. It's why the eye test and stats have fueled 24/7 sports talk TV and radio. But your videos are undeniably the best on F1...no stats needed :)
The eye test also confirms Max is the best ever.
@@JS-ll8nk agreed!
One thing we will never know is of course how any of the all time greats would have faired in todays highly developed f1. Everyone now has great race simulation software, each car is pretty good, few teams are a mess... That might make for a easier life compared to the troubles and challenges from the past but... The competition is no joke these days.. i think you need to more versatile and more perfect to be outstanding these days... I think a few weekends of brilliance used to be enough.. these days it's about performing in 23 weekends, about understanding what is happening, understanding the data, adepting the car or the race craft... Maybe i am wrong but i think a championship now is actually more difficult than it was back then.
It could be yes, which few people say. Back then, if you found something as a driver on the track, or a tan found something with the car, you’d have a Massive advantage. Today, everyone will find out what you’re doing weather in braking points or on the car in 2 minutes. You have to be superior every second of every race.
He was hired to TR to let him adapt to F1. He was promoted to F1 and by a bit of luck (Rosberg Hamilton collision) was to drive for P1 Barcelona 2016.
Now he had the people behind him to show what he with a quality team can achieve.
A driver like Verstappen gets everybody in focus and make achievements like this possible.
In the early days it was more (not only) luck to have a car that performed with a driver that could handle it.
These days it is so close it in my opinion is even more impressive to have a streek of four titles than ever before.
@Michel-r6m lmao a driver that's a reckless petulant child? You seem to have forgotten all the toxicity that's come from RB, Max, Marko, and Horner... FFS
@trance9158 get out of here , every comment you're hating on verstappen like a petulant child, you're the one bringing all the toxicity you hypocrite 😮
@@trance9158 He is talking about race results, if you want to talk about personalities go somewhere else.
@@trance9158 Ever looked up Lauda/Senna, Senna/Prost, Schumacher/the world and Hunt vs himself?.
As for teams you can look up Ferrari/Mercedes on how "mature" behaved in the 2010's, and there this guy with earrings...what a benchmark!
Lotus...Colin Chapman did not care for drivers to be killed as long the brand was running and winning...
I haven’t seen a more interesting video on YT in a while. Incredible job
So, Max is one of the greatest. Michael took 3 titles without a dominant car (if not the broken leg he would get the 1999 also and if not totally unlucky in the last race (Interlagos) he would get very close to get another in 1998 & 2006). LH is great but not so much. Prost and Senna were both great ones. Clark might be the best ever indeed.
I checked Cory's accordion music and I was not disappointed, I never knew I loved accordion. Hanging around Helmut Marko's house with Max playing accordion while Jos and Christian Horner are polka dancing is an image a can not get out of my head.
What a fascinating character.
It’s happened multiple times haha
Forgot to add a 'got beaten by their teammate' category (correction)*misinformation
It’s in there. Lewis has been beat 4 of 18 times.
@CPez didn't catch it I guess
@@CPez -Max has been beaten 2 out 10 times but won't ever be beaten again because his teammates are hired to support Max
@@majdsarhan1990In just watching it for the first time so maybe it didn’t make the edit haha. I could send the picture though.
@@shro8605 He hasnt been beaten on speed, perhaps on points yes, but that is a comparison for donkeys and fanboys..
Its actually Sainz who was his main competitor not Daniel... Sainz was the closest to Max 0.06 slower than max.
Faster Qualify
Sainz vs verstappen 0.06%
Ricciardo vs verstappen 0.11%
Gasly vs verstappen 0.45%
Albon vs verstappen 0.62%
Perez vs verstappen 0.46%
Faster Race wins
Sainz vs verstappen 54.5%
Ricciardo vs verstappen 60.6%
Gasly vs verstappen 90%
Albon vs verstappen 88.9%
By far the best video on the “goat” discussion I have ever seen. However you should discount past performances from e.g. Clark. The constant pressure and and frequency of races puts current drivers, and especially Max’ incredible streak, in a whole different perspective.
Also, the field is much more competitive nowadays.
Anyhow, great video. It is clear that Max is the best of all time. Performing at 100% without making mistakes for such a long time, under such high pressure, is something others can only dream of.
Loved this.
Have only listened to tidbits of this podcast. That out of the way I wanna ask if the stats took into account what teammates all the greats drove against. Some had strong teammates that took stats away from them while others didn't.
yeah... rosberg, alonso, russel, bottas vs webber vs perez. Makes a big difference if you have a teammate taking wins off you. Is that because e.g. Hamilton and Vettel weren't good enough to dominate, or is it because Perez isn't good enough to challange?
In-coming meltdown from Team LH...
I thought I was Very kind to Hamilton people, but the numbers don’t lie haha
really great interview with Jeff Goldblum, was very insightful
You haven’t mentioned team mates and team strategies concerning team mates.
What a fascinating breakdown love it
Thanks Sam!!
Best there ever was, best there ever will be. It's the eye test.
I always saw hamilton as the goat but verstappens ability to beat the mighty perez albon and gasly in equal machinery changed my mind
@@andrewmelton2686and beat Hamilton while in pretty much equal quality cars.
@@aaronb4936 Newey himself said the Redbull was faster on average which is absolutely true if you look at the whole season
@@kj48tigerthe W12 was actually 0.053s per lap faster on average over the season. Newey wants to take some credit for the WDC win that year, and rightfully so. But Max did win in inferior machinery (albeit not inferior by much).
@@andrewmelton2686 did you just say 'the mighty' ?
The movie Moneyball looks at the difference between perception and statistics in Baseball
How about pole to win conversion%? Max has an 80% rate, higher than anybody else. Only Prost in his McLaren days equals that, but it’s 8 wins from 10 poles. Max is 32 wins from 40 poles
Well Pole to win doesn’t tell me anything really. And I Love Max, and that stat would help him, sure. But going 3rd to Win is more impressive than Pole to Win anyway.
@@CPezof all poles of Charles, Max won more races than Charles himself. LOL
Fascinating theoty, amazing statistics and probably the best way to determine the GOAT. Would love to see the stats if the drivers entire F1 career was considered cause anyone whose chosen GOAT isnt the winner here, will raise that as an objection. But I love this. Thanks Peter for putting this on.
We go over that in the next video haha
How good is Lawson and Tsunoda should be the conversation, don't you know by now why and how good Max is Peter!
An totally moot discussion. Red Bull was never going to repeat the mistake of putting a non-Junior driver in the top team, they have heard the anger of the drivers in their jr. program for not getting the chances to promote. And also Red Bull was never knowingly going for a driver staying for 1 year at most knowing Honda will transfer him to Aston Martin in 2026 as it is a Honda driver not a Red Bull driver.
@@endthisnonsense7202 How good is Lawson? His career is not that convincing looking at his upcoming, would be nice to have Peter dissect it, not the political cheese, we know that, but the drivers driving skills from a technical perspective, Peter should be able to do it rather then repeat Max ramble.
@@mediascapes2011 I agree currently Tsunoda is better. Lawson has more potential though. And Red Bull was not going for a non-Red Bull jr. again. So it's a moot discussion.
I think a driver’s performance relative to his teammate should be a factor: ie some teams had a clear #1 driver and some were closely matched. This factor will definitely affect statistics.
Sure, it could be a factor, but the question is how do you interpreted the comparison. Because if two drivers are close to each other in performance, you could argue driver A has a better teammate, or you could argue that driver A is just not so good as it seems.
Let me save you 24 minutes. Max is the greatest of all time, hands down.
I didn’t say that at All haha, though he is Certainly On Track to be Top 3.
I really appreciate this analysis. Thanks
He’s the best ever. Put every top 10 driver in the same car over a season and Max comes out on top.
Should also add the data from the second driver/car to really see how dominant the car was imho. Also add rain races which is another driving quality level. Would be interesting to see what the results would be when this would be also added.
Fantastic piece! Cory could power an F1 engine on his own! Never seen so much energy. Thank you Peter
What a lovely video for the off-season. Cory, its the assumptions you make, to be fair, you acknowledge this, and you are clever enough to troll Windsor with Jim Clark. Verstappen is incredible, but Fangio is and remains the Maestro, never forget that JMF did not get to F1 until he was 36 years old, has the highest all-time win percentage, and, drove for four different manufacturers; wish to say Fangio jumped to the best car, yes, of course, and why, because Fangio was the undisputed best driver and every team wanted him. Eye test? 1957 German GP at Nurburgring- from many minutes down to victory lap record after lap record. Max may be that good, Jim Clark was close, Nigel and Ayrton especially on their day were amazing, but Juan Manual Fangio the humble gentleman from Balcarce is still the best anyone has ever seen.
Thanks John, and yes, 1957 Germany I talk about (might make the 2nd video). Just astounding stuff by Fangio, And yes! He was old when F1 started and he Still has those stats!
The comment section is going to be marvellous.
😁
Actually it’s just about ALL positive 🎉👍🏻. Glad people enjoy the countries hours I’ve put into this over the years.
Max beat a 7-time world champion (8-time according to this video)... 4 years in a row.
The more you think of Lewis, the more stellar Max becomes.
I am only 3 min into the thing and already love is. My research heart is coming to life.
Merry Christmas Mr. Windsor.
I.m watching Senna on Netflix. He was my favorite driver back then.. My first race was with my Dad at the Nurburgring in 1976 as a five year old when Lauda crashed. Not old enough to understand what happened. My Dad was in tears,he was a big Lauda fan. In 1994 we were at Imola together when Senna crashed.I was devistated. Back then Senna was the villain,he was victim of the relentlous actions from Balestre,at that time the Sulayem from the FIA. I see so much similarities with Max now. Max has the same qualities Senna had. Straight forward,no nonsense. Max is the villain now and i love it. He is in another league,his own league,like Senna was. And they share the same brilliance,devotion and honesty. Pure racers and for me Max is the GOAT. As long as Max is driving in F1 nobody will beat him.Never.
If Max is so great and unbeatable, why Horner having to warn Lawson not to challenge him? Why does Max need so much help to beat his teammates?
@@shro8605 Really? Your comment is non relevant. Another fake F1 not knowing anything about F1. You are the laughing stock on this channel.
@@miquel440 -Go read Horner's comments. He has actually said that Lawson is there to support Max.
@@shro8605Max does NOT need a wingman, unlike Lewis.
What a fascinating fella, I really enjoyed 👍🏻
Thanks so much!! - Cory
TLDR; Greats are in that order Clark > Verstappen > Ascari > Fangio > Schumacher > Vettel > Senna > Hamilton. When it comes to winning with having dominant car or just a decent car Max is the best. Vettel and Lewis are at the opposite end.
Replace Vettel with Prost and you have my list. Vettel is too overrated IMO.
After giving it some thought I don't believe this is a valid method of analysis for entire seasons. Luck averages out over the long run. Generally the saying "You win some, you lose some" holds true in racing.
You could certainly say that individual events beyind human comprehension as to appear random play a part in individual races but not over a season.
Yes, but I account for Everyone in Al races. There are races where Leclerc Should have won but his car shut down, so there are Wins for Max that were taken away.
11:15 Yes but we’re not catering for the fact Max has never had a WDC teammate or a competitive teammate in that Period of time. Lewis has multiple times over. Even now he had an opportunity to have Carlos in the Second seat which would’ve guaranteed a constructors title win
I guess you can qualify 2 as multiple but that’s not wrong, max never had a WDC as a teammate.
Agreed. In my opinion, it's the final hurdle to GOAT. That's why redbulls choice for drivers has been disappointing. I think Max is faster than Carlos, yet RB still didn't want him in the car, just shows you how coddled Max is. Easy to look like a genius in the fastest car and a weak teamate.
@@mariobgrant because of the nature of how RBR works (they're working based on the talent they nurtured in their academy for a very long time. Checo is an exception due to they not having any other talent ready to fill the seat at that time). So I won't blame Max for having weak teammate. Even Max himself on his debut isn't that special either, just a talented but very crash prone kid
@@hectornecromancer5308 Yuki and Sainz are from the redbull junior program, they have vast experience, doesnt make sense....I believe that Max doesn't care who his teamates are but Jos Verstappen does. Regardless of the reasons, we don't know how good Max really is because he's had weak teamates.
@@mariobgrant not that he can do anything about it. Especially knowing what RedBull currently had in their disposal
Even if they chose Yuki, for example, who knows how long he'll stay, or how he'll perform
I'm surprised that in man's reasoning Senna actually gains a DWC. I thought he would loose a championship to Prost.
And discussions about "who's the greatest?" are always difficult. I remember Senna in the JPS Lotus driving in front of the Williams at a position he shouldn't be in if he was a regular F1 driver or Senna in the Camel Lotus keeping Mansell, Piquet, Prost, behind him making himself as wide as Gandalf on the bridge at the mines of Moria. Let's just enjoy our memories of the past icons while we make new memories with the present generation, spearheaded bij Max.
Lose? I see no way in which Senna isn’t more impressive than Prost. Senna 1988 is arguably the greatest example. If you have an 8 hour race, sure, go Prost. If you want an assassin in shorter races like F1, it’s Senna all day.
@@CPez Dear C, you have not noticed that I wrote nothing negative about Senna's qualities? Au contraire...
And as many of us older F1 fans know Alain Prost was screwed over twice by the points system in operation those years. Once in Lauda's advantage and later in Senna's advantage. If Prost would have received points in what we (later) consider normal manner then Senna would have lost one titel to Prost.
@@xedor2003 But when I do my stats, I go by a 10-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 system. Not the crappy system they used in those years (where Yes, Prost fans know he was screwed on it). But when you take into account luck, Senna won Both 88 and 89 Anyway.
Seat cushion from the Indy 500 in the background! Love it! I had one exactly like it. Indy 500 rules. 🏆 Great show Peter! Fascinating F1 talk.
Would have love to Hear you conclude this video at the end Peter
Haha all the facts show this Max is the best everrrrrr. already and he has still 10 years to go at least.
best at what? crashing and DNF? yeah, he's far ahead of Lewis there, because he doesn't know how to race within the rules.
@@StormcastMarineDTS-FANGIRL SPOTTED
Thank you.
As an individual. I'm not mad about him. At all. Although.
For what he does. Is masterly perfection. A gut feeling automoten. On auto pilot. Presently. In his stride. Whipping the smoke out of most.
Will be interesting to how SLH is going to perform in an un-sabotaged Ferrari!
A very strong point you are missing is you dont factor in teammates. Hamilton had Rosberg for 3 years. Verstappen had fuck all
And don't forget Hamilton had Russell. 😂
@@Saiko-Johnny -And Hamilton had Alonso in 2007 & another peak WDC in Button. Max has had the easiest teammates of all.
but rosberg is validated as a high tier driver by doing great against hamilton. by that logic Gasly couldve been 'a rosberg' ..but max just crushed him. I think its very likely max wouldve crushed rosberg too in that prime merc. The point is, you're using Rosberg's performance to validate Lewis, but in reality, Rosberg's own validation comes from competing against Lewis. The logic is flawed, its like saying a runner's speed is proven by how well they race against a champion, but then using the runner's ability to validate the champion’s skill. in a two man race (dominant cars) this is circular reasoning since the runner’s worth is only highlighted by the champion, but you’re using the runner to prove the champion's greatness.
@@dco1019 -No, Rosberg was already considered a very good driver BEFORE Hamilton joined Merc....in fact, Rosberg was tipped to beat Hamilton when he first joined. Rosberg's validation comes mainly from demolishing Schumacher 3-0
@@shro8605 Schumacher was a washed up senior who quit racing for years. Also gasly was considered a very good driver before he joined RBR. Thats what im saying Gasly couldve been 'a rosberg'
Should somehow be required viewing for F1 fans
Da best!
Love to see Elvis back and tell us about how good Jim Clark was
No disrespect intended, but for me, this is a classic example of how little Americans understand the sport of F1. To mention Bahrain 2021...Hamilton exceeded track limits 29x because it was agreed in the pre-race notes that turn 4 would not be policed in regards to setting a lap time, so why is Corey saying Verstappen should have won that race? Also, Cory has given zero consideration into the quality of teammates. Verstappen doesn't have teammates....his teammates are not allowed to challenge him and there to support him. Even the sister RB team often support Verstappen.
Yeah he's not being specific enough with his analysis. Race-by-race analysis, car comparisons - there isn't enough data.
Also doesn't take into consideration that Jim Clark and other drivers up until the late 1970s raced all year long if you count non-championship events, significantly up until the mid-late 1960s official Grand Prix that counted towards the championship outgrew non-champ events.
Not specific enough
Cory Here: 1. Because to go into teammate quality, you would be venturing into a level of Subjectivism no one wants to go near. Now we’re debating Rubens vs. Rosberg, Francis Cavert vs. Perez, Peter Collins vs. Mark Webber. I mean, that’s ridiculous since they didn’t accomplish enough to have detailed data, and were at different levels in different seasons. And even if you get through that, it would take even more factors of subjectivity. It’s better to just use it as an afterthought when you have 2 drivers Really cost to reach other to maybe clinch the argument. 2. In Bahrain 2021, the Point, is that Hamilton gained about 0.7-1 second in that race by doing that, MEANING Max would have caught him earlier and would have surely had time to get him, Plus, for god’s sake, can F1 REWARD the great pass?? This is like the NFL killing Great catches because the guys toe Kiiind of touched the white. And forget that I’m American which single gives me negative points (I have Never watched the Netflix show once fyi), I’ve watched F1 since I was 2, and know Many in F1.
@@MrNinjaFishBut most drivers didn’t compete in them on the honor system so it wouldn’t screw up the Title.
@@CPez -This is a load of nonsense. Teammate quality is a massive part in how well a driver performs. Senna had Prost, Prost had Senna, Hamilton had WDCs Alonso, Button and Nico Rosberg who was able to demolish Michael Schumacher 3-0. Verstappen has had inexperienced near rookies and mid tier drivers like Perez as teammates. Next year, Verstappen is having yet another rookie teammate Lawson who has been told he is only there to support Max. Put Max against a better calibre teammate and he doesn't look like the supposed god you are trying to portray him as. As for Bahrain 2021 if Max didn't have the intelligence and nouse to take advantage of exceeding track limits as was allowed by the pre race notes, then that's his problem. So no, Max should NOT be given Bahrain 2021
Very interesting. One remark, however. When you compare these "runs" it is clearly much harder to keep up a winning percentage of 72% over 73 races than to keep up such a percentage over 26 races. Stated differently: I am quite sure that if you search in that run of Max you will be able to find "partial-runs" of about 26 six races where the percentage was even higher... (says my intuition as somebody who has had quite a lot to do with statistics in my job)
I love how invested people are in these debates. Writing multiple paragraphs defending someone who doesn’t know they exist like their life depends on it… Truly hilarious.
Imagine talking down to people while having „he/him“ in your bio, don‘t you have bigger problems to worry about than people being passionate about a sport they follow?
Me thinks thou dost protest too much. I follow the sport, have watched nearly every quali and race every week available to watch in my locality for going on 15 years. I just don’t have a parasocial relationship with the drivers such that my own self worth is wrapped up in how others perceive a car driver.
@@DustySideswho said that anyone has their self worth tied to a driver? Do people just disagree or argue when something their self worth is tied to is involved?
You can tell by the level of personal attacks, hyperbole, and desperation of people’s posts that it is indeed personal. Like, going to someone’s profile and trying to level completely unrelated culture war attacks says someone is taking it very personally.
@@DustySides you come in here and your first comment ever on the channel is talking down to people - you didn‘t expect being talked down to yourself, did you?
He's like sylvester Stallone in his indy cart movie when he gets into his zone and starts humming.
Look, Max is obviouly a talented F1 driver but I have the same problem with Max that had with Senna and Michael Schumacher, they weren't the cleanest of drivers. Max loses his head when things are not going his way. He has a problem with the red mist.
Senna and Schumacher were blatent in that they would try and take another driver out if it meant they could stop that driver from winning. A great driver is not only rated on wins, it's how they go about it.
That’s a very Leftist way of looking at things. To me the Assassin should be rewarded. This isn’t Tennis; this is motor acing. But look, of Course the fact that Schumacher tried to win 2 titles by crashing into his opponent Hurts his GOAT chances.
I would agree if it wasn't F1.
The cleanest wins are due to superior material, while the rough races are all about skill and mentality.
"This guy was so amazing by never touching anyone and driving 30 seconds ahead of the rest" ... yeah, no shit.
@@NotAfraidToQuestionThingsHmm, Senna deliberately taking Prost out at Suzuka. Schumacher sqeezing Barrichello to the pitlane wall on the main straight in Hungary. Schumacher deliberately parking his car on the track in Monaco to prevent another driver getting pole position. Verstappen taking himself and Hamilton completely off the track on turn4 to prevent an overtake. Schumacher tried to take Jacques Villeneuve, out in the European 97 GP.
THAT IS THE BEST ANALYSIS I HAVE SEEN ON THE INTERNET!!!!
AND PLAUSIBEL, TOO
MOOOOOORE of IT